Hi Guy, I think that is really good to see a 'real time' rust test on the cpm 3v. In reality , I cannot imagine anyone is going to neglect their blades to the point of them being left outside for a year, unless they have lost them on a trek! Anyway, interesting stuff, thanks a.t.b. vee
When in use I bet rust won't have a chance to really appear. Andry Tran from Innerbark had 1095 in the Amazon (100 percent humidity with constant water exposure) for a week and it didn't rust that badly.
I’m glad you mention the “scratch finish” Iv noticed a high polish finish tends to respond more like stainless rather than tool steel especially on a higher alloy tool steel like 3V
Yep that is pretty much my exact experience with my GSO 4.1. I have taken it on numerous river trips (it was wet all day) and noticed a decent bit of rust... I was a bit concerned until I realized it literally just wiped off and left no evidence behind.
Wish that new website was up and running, I'm itching to order my 4.1 lol. Great knives, I love buying USA made products. I'm from PA also, so that = win!
Was this heat treated 3v? Some claim the HT effects how it does ( or does not) rust. Also claimed his Bark River rusted ( in a test of 5) less or not at all VS other 3v offerings.
This was heat treated 3V, done with an industry standard high temper heat treat. This video is over two years old now. We've more recently switched our heat treat to a low temper protocol, which does seem to boost the corrosion resistance and also improved impact resistance over the high temper protocol. I can't really speak on what another company may or may not be doing.
I had very different results. I am in Brazil , ie , a condition of higher temperatures , more moisture and salinity ( coastal ) . In my case , the slightest careless with the knife was enough to be meaningful deep rust. Yes unfortunately there was pit corrosion. Just onde day in the humid sheath was enough to start corrosion. And the pit was deep enough to damege the edge. Yes, it was a Brak River. I'm sure if there is somo difference there.
It sounds like you need stainless, maybe Bark River's CPM-154. If you use a ferro rod you can always carry a piece of saw blade or other high-carbon steel for a striker.
Hey Dick, we actually do offer a stainless steel option for our customers, if they prefer it. Generally we stick with CPM-20CV but have made small batches using CPM-154, both of which are produced by Crucible Industries. We also offer CPM-3V for folks who are looking for a tougher alternative to a stainless. Wilson, CPM-3V will spot in high moisture situations, but we have found that it cleans up pretty easily as evidenced in this video. In more recent months we have been able to collaborate with some great minds in the heat treat world and have developed an optimized heat treat protocol for CPM-3V, making it even more corrosion resistant while also improving toughness.
Good to know! A test I wanted to see but didn't want to do to my personal blades. Did you try any cut tests after? Better be careful now that people know you leave blades outside ;)
I don't worry about my knives rusting as they are constantly lubricated, but those knives definitely rusted. They didn't rust too badly, but they still rusted.
Hey there, we are just doing some test transactions on our new site platform, before hopefully putting it live tonight. We will have some GSO-4.1s, GSO-10s, Neckers and a few odds and ends available initially. We do have more GSO-5.1s and GSO-5s in production, that should be finishing up by late March.
I would like to see a major destruction test a video that shows how tough these knives are with the most ridiculous ways of trying to break them weight stress test breaking concrete metal just beat the crap out of them would a video of this be possible?
Well, looking over past videos we've beat the knives up pretty good. I will try to come up with some ideas for the future though, to put several things in one single video. I will say that we do always try to keep the abuse videos at least semi related to something that could happen, even if the situation is extreme. For some reason a small segment of people always seem to take something you might do in an abuse video and interpret that as condoning doing it, so I try to shy away from videoing blatant stupidity.
I would just like to see what it would take to destroy one of your knives and if there is a problem with people trying it just put at the beginning of your video that its just a test of how much the knife can go through and that the test is not the intended purpose of the knife just a demonstration
mrniceguy00987 Yeah, I did that a few videos ago, over the summer. Some people still didn't get it, as evidenced by some comments and parallel comments on a variety of forum threads. I'm doing some brain storming though and coming up with some good ideas.
No, we have switched exclusively to all high quality US produced steels. I will say that CPM-20CV made by Crucible is compositionally identical to Bohler's M-390.
Dietdrshasta No plans right now of doing anything with serrations. I've never been impressed with serrations myself and they are impossible to resharpen without specialized rods or proprietary resharpening kits.
How well does 3V take a strop after micro chips or rolls? I have no experience with 3V but am very interested in it.. My knives in O1 I can strop out pretty significant rolls and chips while in the field and was wondering if the same can be done for 3V? Thanks.
+Christian Cork Stropping takes forever on 3v if you have folds or nicks. You'll want to start with a diamond extra coarse stone and work your way down to extra fine and you'll have a shaving sharp knife in about 15 to 20 minutes. I found that guided systems will get it scary sharp. You can strop to maintain or finish 3v. I also have several 01 knives and I found that 3v stays sharper about 2 to 3 times longer than 01. Hope this helps.
Polish your 1095 upto 12,000 and it won’t rust as easily then hit the edge with a 1000 ceramic to make it toothy and strop the edge back upto 3000 can’t go wrong!
Thanks Guy, i found out you guys also once made the 7/7 i think? Are you making some as well? I'm als wondering what models can be purchased in the 20CV steel? Thx a lot
I'm curious: Is there a difference between 3V & CPM 3V? I've seen that "CPM" a few times, what does that mean? Also, how would this compare to 5160? What about 154CM? Or S30V? I'm thinking of getting a Nessmuk-style knife forged (mostly in the way you see at Koster Knives, but with a few adjustments) & I'd like it to be rust-resistant (whether it's designated "stainless" or not) & to strike sparks with a stone, if possible.
Whew, you're all over the place. lol That is a lot bigger question than you might think. You might want to head over and sign up for Bladeforums to do some research and bounce some of your ideas off of the good folks over there.
It's about the same as S-30v, but it is not as stain/rust resistant, and it is tougher. How good are you at sharpening? Because that may rule out CPM 3v as a better steel than 5160 for a survival knife for you, and 154cm is more near Aus-8 than most super steels. To my knowledge 154cm may be more prone to breakage too.
Wanimator ZGB Not real good at sharpening (not bad, but I don't think I've ever gotten anything shaving sharp), so I guess it would be 5160. I like that steel, anyway (it seems to have that "Chevy Toughness" & it's versatile). Good to know about that S30V, as I'm thinking of having something of a cooking/utility knife forged. I'm thinking of something like a Koster Nessmuck, but smaller & with a handle material that I can boil with the whole knife in order to clean it- any ideas on something besides Thermorun for that? I'd just get Thermorun, but I've never seen it available as a seperate thing.
Wanimator ZGB Why, what happens? Also, what would be a good stainless to forge the thing I was talking about (it's meant to be a work knife, as well as a cooking knife)? I know sometimes steels that don't normally hold a good edge will hold one if it's tempered correctly (like with Buck knives, I've heard).
I don't believe either is especially hateful for resharpening. In a few weeks I'll make a resharpening/reprofiling video, using a standard lanksy stone set. I just want to show people, that while these steels might take a little extra time, they don't require any special diamond or exotic materials to maintain.
here's a wild suggestion which ull prob hate...so many of us are waiting for your CPM-3V knives, checking the site and email CONSTANTLY... why not just focus solely on GSO line in CPM-3V to meet demands? Does this video not prove THE CPM-3V itself is a, "very low maintenance, all weather cutting tool," and so there's really no need for the more elementally resistant CPM-20CV? The SK line as well; it might be harder steel yet, but who wants an inferior edge, and don't the destruction tests prove there's no need for anything harder than CPM-3V? Yes the SK line is cheaper, but every guy i know(myself included of course) here in pennsylvania drooling over your knives is waiting only for the CPM-3V blades in the GSO line. All of us who love caliber knives like yours aren't really worried about saving a few dollars on something so important, it's like going to the cheapest laser eye surgeon in town just to cop a bargain. those people can go ahead and stick to their BudK specials. Then again all your knives are sold out, so what the hell do i know haha. I just thought maybe you could meet customer demands far better by focusing on GSOs in CPM-3V, and you'd gain thousands of new customers by doing so. keep up the good work, and dont let a woman come into your life and turn you into a money fiend Busse style.
***** We're doing our best to get caught up a bit with demand but we're still a very young company and only a 3 person shop. We can only do so much at one time, in any type of steel. I sharpen each and every edge that goes out the door myself, to ensure it is up to my high standard. Each of the different steels are focused toward different types of users. I get requests, plenty of them, for all of the steel types we use and others. The S7 isn't simply about being cheaper. It is tough as nails and while it doesn't have quite the edge holding of CPM-3V, it is extremely easy to field sharpen and still holds an edge damned well. I honestly love all three of the steels we use, just for different reasons. On to your last point, the only thing you'll see going up in the future is our quality, not our prices. You can take that one to the bank. Just try to keep in mind from our end that each production run represents a HUGE amount of investment cash up front for us and while I would like to always have everything in stock, I just don't have it like that. We're at an awkward place in our growth right now, trying to increase run sizes and capacity but at the same time needing to make big investments in equipment to facilitate that. Please know that we're working on it.
3v WILL rust and pit. I have a bark river necker that sat in my basement and developed rust all over it. even under the scales. It really surprised me to see this premium steel rust in 3 months inside. It sat with Leatherman knives, 1095, A2, D2, M2 and 420 steel knives - only the 3v had rust, and no, it has never been used or put in a corrosive environment.
why does anyone care about rust on knives? what i care about is field sharpen-ability. some of these steels are so hard to sharpen they become worthless
CPM-3V is NOT hard to take care off AT ALL; it is the reason i like it over everything else... Depend a lot by the HT; it is usually "pretty close" to 1095 "as a maintenance" (how to react to the strop/stone ecc...) but keep the edge WAY BETTER. Another FANTASTIC characteristic is that STILL "HAIR POPPING SHARP" EVEN AT SOME "OBTUSE ANGLES" (like 27,5° per side) where other steels (like VG-10 for example) do not perform well. I personally care A LOT about "rust on the blades" because in salt water environmental, you can see a "MORA carbon steel" LITERALLY DISAPPEAR (i mean: find "brown powder" instead the blade it self) in just 30-50 days (same for 1095 and "all the family"; you can easily find 0.3-0,7mm spots of missing steel on the edge OVERNIGHT). If you can effort the price, i strongly suggest you to buy a 3V knife, i bet it will "set your standard to another level" (if you haven't tried one yet...). Some people don't like "3V", i never got "why". I use it since 5-7 years and it is my favorite steel... It is expansive. P.S. I assume you live in America, if so (if you are interested OFC) you can find a Cold Steel SRK 3V version on Amazon for about 100 bucks (ugly yes... But WORK).
I just like to keep people informed. Being the owner and designer, I do take a personal interest in my business and I'm pretty passionate about making a quality tool. I'm sorry if you misinterpreted any of that as whining.
Hi Guy, I think that is really good to see a 'real time' rust test on the cpm 3v. In reality , I cannot imagine anyone is going to neglect their blades to the point of them being left outside for a year, unless they have lost them on a trek! Anyway, interesting stuff, thanks a.t.b. vee
When in use I bet rust won't have a chance to really appear. Andry Tran from Innerbark had 1095 in the Amazon (100 percent humidity with constant water exposure) for a week and it didn't rust that badly.
I’m glad you mention the “scratch finish” Iv noticed a high polish finish tends to respond more like stainless rather than tool steel especially on a higher alloy tool steel like 3V
That was great insight. Needed to see that. Now I know.
I appreciated your video. I'm considering buying the Cold Steel SRK in CPM-3V, and this was one of my concerns.
Yep that is pretty much my exact experience with my GSO 4.1. I have taken it on numerous river trips (it was wet all day) and noticed a decent bit of rust... I was a bit concerned until I realized it literally just wiped off and left no evidence behind.
Would love to see the same test with CPM20CV
Curious to see what saltwater can do
This sold me on the Fallkniven Lam. Cos. For a survival knife. Thank you.
Wish that new website was up and running, I'm itching to order my 4.1 lol. Great knives, I love buying USA made products. I'm from PA also, so that = win!
thats pretty awesome
looking forward to owning a 5.1
Got also the Rocky S2V.. ;) Nice boots.
So in that case the 3V would be the best choice..hardly rust and more resistant than the 90V?
Nice test, Thanks...
Was this heat treated 3v?
Some claim the HT effects how it does ( or does not) rust.
Also claimed his Bark River rusted ( in a test of 5) less or not at all VS other 3v offerings.
This was heat treated 3V, done with an industry standard high temper heat treat. This video is over two years old now. We've more recently switched our heat treat to a low temper protocol, which does seem to boost the corrosion resistance and also improved impact resistance over the high temper protocol. I can't really speak on what another company may or may not be doing.
I had very different results. I am in Brazil , ie , a condition of higher temperatures , more moisture and salinity ( coastal ) .
In my case , the slightest careless with the knife was enough to be meaningful deep rust. Yes unfortunately there was pit corrosion.
Just onde day in the humid sheath was enough to start corrosion. And the pit was deep enough to damege the edge.
Yes, it was a Brak River. I'm sure if there is somo difference there.
It sounds like you need stainless, maybe Bark River's CPM-154. If you use a ferro rod you can always carry a piece of saw blade or other high-carbon steel for a striker.
Hey Dick, we actually do offer a stainless steel option for our customers, if they prefer it. Generally we stick with CPM-20CV but have made small batches using CPM-154, both of which are produced by Crucible Industries. We also offer CPM-3V for folks who are looking for a tougher alternative to a stainless.
Wilson, CPM-3V will spot in high moisture situations, but we have found that it cleans up pretty easily as evidenced in this video. In more recent months we have been able to collaborate with some great minds in the heat treat world and have developed an optimized heat treat protocol for CPM-3V, making it even more corrosion resistant while also improving toughness.
good stuff, thanks Guy
Good to know! A test I wanted to see but didn't want to do to my personal blades. Did you try any cut tests after? Better be careful now that people know you leave blades outside ;)
I totally agree with your comment. ;)
I don't worry about my knives rusting as they are constantly lubricated, but those knives definitely rusted. They didn't rust too badly, but they still rusted.
Yep, data sheets can only get you so far. That's why we like to do real world testing, to see where things land in real life circumstances.
Hello Guy, seems so hard to purchase one of your knives. Any idea when they'll be available again? Hoping to get any of the 5-7 inch blades.
Hey there, we are just doing some test transactions on our new site platform, before hopefully putting it live tonight. We will have some GSO-4.1s, GSO-10s, Neckers and a few odds and ends available initially. We do have more GSO-5.1s and GSO-5s in production, that should be finishing up by late March.
I would like to see a major destruction test a video that shows how tough these knives are with the most ridiculous ways of trying to break them weight stress test breaking concrete metal just beat the crap out of them would a video of this be possible?
Well, looking over past videos we've beat the knives up pretty good. I will try to come up with some ideas for the future though, to put several things in one single video. I will say that we do always try to keep the abuse videos at least semi related to something that could happen, even if the situation is extreme.
For some reason a small segment of people always seem to take something you might do in an abuse video and interpret that as condoning doing it, so I try to shy away from videoing blatant stupidity.
I would just like to see what it would take to destroy one of your knives and if there is a problem with people trying it just put at the beginning of your video that its just a test of how much the knife can go through and that the test is not the intended purpose of the knife just a demonstration
mrniceguy00987
Yeah, I did that a few videos ago, over the summer. Some people still didn't get it, as evidenced by some comments and parallel comments on a variety of forum threads. I'm doing some brain storming though and coming up with some good ideas.
Guy Seiferd From what I see you brainstorm quite well. The tests were sick, literally. Counting the days down for one of these.
Will we ever see M390 steel on the 3.5. I want one but dont really like the steel choice.
No, we have switched exclusively to all high quality US produced steels. I will say that CPM-20CV made by Crucible is compositionally identical to Bohler's M-390.
Thanks for the clarification. I hope I don't get threats for asking this but, do you plan on making serrated versions of some of your knives?
Dietdrshasta
No plans right now of doing anything with serrations. I've never been impressed with serrations myself and they are impossible to resharpen without specialized rods or proprietary resharpening kits.
How well does 3V take a strop after micro chips or rolls? I have no experience with 3V but am very interested in it.. My knives in O1 I can strop out pretty significant rolls and chips while in the field and was wondering if the same can be done for 3V? Thanks.
+Christian Cork Stropping takes forever on 3v if you have folds or nicks. You'll want to start with a diamond extra coarse stone and work your way down to extra fine and you'll have a shaving sharp knife in about 15 to 20 minutes. I found that guided systems will get it scary sharp. You can strop to maintain or finish 3v. I also have several 01 knives and I found that 3v stays sharper about 2 to 3 times longer than 01. Hope this helps.
anyone had any luck acid etching 3V?
It rusts a lot less than 1095
Polish your 1095 upto 12,000 and it won’t rust as easily then hit the edge with a 1000 ceramic to make it toothy and strop the edge back upto 3000 can’t go wrong!
Hi, i noticed that there are no 5.1 available to order on your site can you tell me when they will beaome available again? I want one :)
Hey Brother, it should be available in just a few weeks. We have a few hundred blades being laser engraved right now.
Thanks Guy, i found out you guys also once made the 7/7 i think? Are you making some as well? I'm als wondering what models can be purchased in the 20CV steel? Thx a lot
No worries, we are definitely making the GSO-7/7 again. It will be better than ever this time around. ;)
Wow thats cool, never seen it tested like that. I need that shirt lol my lady doesnt understand. Lol
I'm curious: Is there a difference between 3V & CPM 3V? I've seen that "CPM" a few times, what does that mean? Also, how would this compare to 5160? What about 154CM? Or S30V? I'm thinking of getting a Nessmuk-style knife forged (mostly in the way you see at Koster Knives, but with a few adjustments) & I'd like it to be rust-resistant (whether it's designated "stainless" or not) & to strike sparks with a stone, if possible.
Whew, you're all over the place. lol That is a lot bigger question than you might think. You might want to head over and sign up for Bladeforums to do some research and bounce some of your ideas off of the good folks over there.
It's about the same as S-30v, but it is not as stain/rust resistant, and it is tougher.
How good are you at sharpening? Because that may rule out CPM 3v as a better steel than 5160 for a survival knife for you, and 154cm is more near Aus-8 than most super steels. To my knowledge 154cm may be more prone to breakage too.
Wanimator ZGB Not real good at sharpening (not bad, but I don't think I've ever gotten anything shaving sharp), so I guess it would be 5160. I like that steel, anyway (it seems to have that "Chevy Toughness" & it's versatile). Good to know about that S30V, as I'm thinking of having something of a cooking/utility knife forged. I'm thinking of something like a Koster Nessmuck, but smaller & with a handle material that I can boil with the whole knife in order to clean it- any ideas on something besides Thermorun for that? I'd just get Thermorun, but I've never seen it available as a seperate thing.
S-30v doesn't forge well.
Wanimator ZGB Why, what happens? Also, what would be a good stainless to forge the thing I was talking about (it's meant to be a work knife, as well as a cooking knife)? I know sometimes steels that don't normally hold a good edge will hold one if it's tempered correctly (like with Buck knives, I've heard).
Hey, we actually make one of the best corrosion inhibitors on the market, would you be interested in testing it as a way to keep 3V clean?
Vincent Brenner We would certainly be interested in testing a product that can provide some additional protection from corrosion. Shoot us an email!
Good
makes for a nice patina.
WHen it comes to sharpening, which is easier CPM-3V or CPM-20CV?
I don't believe either is especially hateful for resharpening. In a few weeks I'll make a resharpening/reprofiling video, using a standard lanksy stone set. I just want to show people, that while these steels might take a little extra time, they don't require any special diamond or exotic materials to maintain.
here's a wild suggestion which ull prob hate...so many of us are waiting for your CPM-3V knives, checking the site and email CONSTANTLY...
why not just focus solely on GSO line in CPM-3V to meet demands? Does this video not prove THE CPM-3V itself is a, "very low maintenance, all weather cutting tool," and so there's really no need for the more elementally resistant CPM-20CV?
The SK line as well; it might be harder steel yet, but who wants an inferior edge, and don't the destruction tests prove there's no need for anything harder than CPM-3V? Yes the SK line is cheaper, but every guy i know(myself included of course) here in pennsylvania drooling over your knives is waiting only for the CPM-3V blades in the GSO line. All of us who love caliber knives like yours aren't really worried about saving a few dollars on something so important, it's like going to the cheapest laser eye surgeon in town just to cop a bargain. those people can go ahead and stick to their BudK specials.
Then again all your knives are sold out, so what the hell do i know haha. I just thought maybe you could meet customer demands far better by focusing on GSOs in CPM-3V, and you'd gain thousands of new customers by doing so. keep up the good work, and dont let a woman come into your life and turn you into a money fiend Busse style.
***** We're doing our best to get caught up a bit with demand but we're still a very young company and only a 3 person shop. We can only do so much at one time, in any type of steel. I sharpen each and every edge that goes out the door myself, to ensure it is up to my high standard.
Each of the different steels are focused toward different types of users. I get requests, plenty of them, for all of the steel types we use and others. The S7 isn't simply about being cheaper. It is tough as nails and while it doesn't have quite the edge holding of CPM-3V, it is extremely easy to field sharpen and still holds an edge damned well. I honestly love all three of the steels we use, just for different reasons.
On to your last point, the only thing you'll see going up in the future is our quality, not our prices. You can take that one to the bank. Just try to keep in mind from our end that each production run represents a HUGE amount of investment cash up front for us and while I would like to always have everything in stock, I just don't have it like that. We're at an awkward place in our growth right now, trying to increase run sizes and capacity but at the same time needing to make big investments in equipment to facilitate that. Please know that we're working on it.
3v WILL rust and pit. I have a bark river necker that sat in my basement and developed rust all over it. even under the scales. It really surprised me to see this premium steel rust in 3 months inside. It sat with Leatherman knives, 1095, A2, D2, M2 and 420 steel knives - only the 3v had rust, and no, it has never been used or put in a corrosive environment.
why does anyone care about rust on knives? what i care about is field sharpen-ability. some of these steels are so hard to sharpen they become worthless
CPM-3V is NOT hard to take care off AT ALL; it is the reason i like it over everything else... Depend a lot by the HT; it is usually "pretty close" to 1095 "as a maintenance" (how to react to the strop/stone ecc...) but keep the edge WAY BETTER.
Another FANTASTIC characteristic is that STILL "HAIR POPPING SHARP" EVEN AT SOME "OBTUSE ANGLES" (like 27,5° per side) where other steels (like VG-10 for example) do not perform well.
I personally care A LOT about "rust on the blades" because in salt water environmental, you can see a "MORA carbon steel" LITERALLY DISAPPEAR (i mean: find "brown powder" instead the blade it self) in just 30-50 days (same for 1095 and "all the family"; you can easily find 0.3-0,7mm spots of missing steel on the edge OVERNIGHT).
If you can effort the price, i strongly suggest you to buy a 3V knife, i bet it will "set your standard to another level" (if you haven't tried one yet...).
Some people don't like "3V", i never got "why". I use it since 5-7 years and it is my favorite steel...
It is expansive.
P.S.
I assume you live in America, if so (if you are interested OFC) you can find a Cold Steel SRK 3V version on Amazon for about 100 bucks (ugly yes... But WORK).
Never... lol
Guy is a whiney baby. if anyone questions anything about your knives boo hoo
I just like to keep people informed. Being the owner and designer, I do take a personal interest in my business and I'm pretty passionate about making a quality tool. I'm sorry if you misinterpreted any of that as whining.
Do you have your company logo tattooed on your wrist?That's commitment for ya XD
+Bullpup92 Yep, sort of my poor man's copyright. lol.
SURVIVE! And free advertising, haha. Looking forward to getting my 5.1 soon, keep up the good work. Peace.
+Bullpup92 i had to look again :D n nice tho