Maybe I misheard but I think Neil said that RD1 was set a few months after the events of RD2’s epilogue. It was actually set 12 years after those events(hate pulling an “uhm actually” lol). I think that timing really colors the changes (and lack of changes) found in the characters from RD2, such as John, Bill, Javier and especially Dutch. Love the content, guys! Keep it up!
RDR2 was 1899, RDR2 epilogue was 1907, RDR1 was 1911 and the epilogue was ~1914. The years 1899 and 1911 were in a lot of the marketing for the games, so it's safe to say those are accurate.
I find it weird that there is even a debate about this. The in game newspapers always tell you what year it currently is. To be clear: rdr2 1899-1907, rdr1 1911-1914
Idk if Neil realizes, I'm only halfway through, but 2's epilogue is 4 years prior to 1. 2 takes place in 1899, 2's epilogue is 8 years later in 1907, 1 is 4 years later in 1911, and 1's epilogue is 3 years later in 1914.
I don't remember if this was mentioned in the RDR 2 episode, but there, you can find a letter to Bonnie in one of a few locations. Turns out the man you find there was her lover, who promised to return soon, but given that he's dead, didn't. It really adds even more sadness to Bonnie's loneliness.
Fantastic episode, well done Neil! I just love how the two mainline games have had a trend of Neil despairing over how few pages he’s been over as the conversation has already turned to chaos lmao
Another interesting theory I saw from a TH-camr on who the man in black is for the context of this game specifically is that he may be a depiction of Caine from the story of Caine and Able because after committing the first murder God forbids him entrance to Heaven nor suffering in Hell and instead makes it so that he will never die and is left to wander Earth eternally thinking about what he did and what he started. The evidence to support this would be giving John the choices he does seeing how someone very much so like him decides to do things, and that he can’t remember his name because he’s not being coy with John, it’s that he has been wandering for so long that he legitimately cannot remember what he was called long ago.
I love that I gasped at the same time you both did when Chase said Superheroes were lower than cowboys. Also Monty I agree. Can’t wait for Chase to see the wonderful world of the two biggest superheroes best gaming outings. CHASE DON’T READ THIS NEXT PART. ONLY FOR MONTY AND NEAL. “I am gonna make you cry at Spider-Man” Neal I agree. I for some reason think that ending is gonna be the thing to really hit chase. It’s one of my favorite moments in both gaming and Spider-Man.
So, Chase gets a bit confused about timelines here, and yeah, it's fucking weird. The first commercial machine gun, the Maxim Gun, went on sale in 1888, the one in Red Dead should be a Browning M1895, considered old and out of date by 1911. To be really fucked up with Wild West stuff, famous lawman Wyatt Earp died in his 80s in 1929, he literally almost lived to see the second world war. At the time RDR1 takes place New York is building a fully electric Subway system, gasoline powered taxis are common in Paris, and Germany is already building Uboats.
In response to the timeline funfacts: Oxford university predates the Aztec Empire by almost 400 years (Oxofrd was founded in 1096, Aztec Empire began in the 1420s). Oxford is the second oldest university on earth (predated only by Bologna) and Spanish propoganda painting the Aztecs as uneducated "savages" tends to make us assume it was much older than it actually was, so people are always surprised by the order of these! Things about as old as Oxford: Roman Catholicism (the great schism which split the Orthodox and Catholic churchs into two sepperate demoninations was in the 1050s), the tower of London (built in 1078), the theory that weather and climate change creates the landscape rather than the earth having been entirely shaped by gods (proposed by a chinese geologist, shen kuo, in the c. 1090s), movable type (1040s), and London Bridge falling down (it was demolished by a tornado in 1091, the first of many london bridges to fall down over the following centuries) As for the mammoths, is it possible Chase was thinking of Aurochs? They are to cows what mammoths are to elephants and bison are to goats (i.e. the prehistoric megafauna variant) and they didn't die out completely until the 1600s.
historically the Pinkerton's detective agency became the FBI. the CIA didnt show up until the cold war and they were a special spy force that was set up during ww2 and worked with the early version of the british spy force. fun fact the writer of james bond got all his story ideas from his time as a spy in ww2.
Was not expecting this one so quickly! Absolutely excited for 3 more hours of pirate facts, and Neil's cowboy voice. Haven't played RDR1 since release, so we're basically learning together on this one. Edit: And Chase is going to be doing Yakuza?! It's like Christmas, lads!
In red dead 2 in the cabin you find the strange man’s writings and it all but confirms he’s the devil. There are more references to deals and those deals not being what you think etc
I actually can disagree since the powers the strange man uses are more an act of Karma not something evil or bad. It's killing people but not because he wanted that to happen but the hatred of one bad human
As always thank you for all of y’all’s hard work you guys have been my favorite podcast to listen to. Keep up the amazing work Chase,Monty, and Neil! And have a great day
I def see the man in black as being a devil archetype as he fits with a lot of that kind of folklore, but I also sort of saw him as a personification of the world (the Americas or the dying old West) itself.
Y’know, as someone who has played neither game, on the comment of “it feels like an extended epilogue for 2” I honestly kind of like that. I’m big fan of unconventional story structure, and I like that before 2 came and gave us the bigger picture, 1 was just a tiny glimpse into johns life. We’re given control of this legendary gunslinger, but instead of playing through his glory days and seeing his full journey, we’re dropped right into the end, where all that’s left is a sad old man, trying to make up for his mistakes, no more glory to be found, just the fallout
Finally! I replayed RDR2 in between the episodes haha. Looking forward to watching this! RDR is the first game I ever bought by myself when I was a kid, bought it second hand and to this day it’s still one of my favorite games ever, only topped by RDR2, but that one came out waaay later haha
I assume it's been mentioned by someone by now, but there's a fan theory that uncle is actually Red Harlow from Red Dead Revolver. I'm pretty sure it's been debunked, but it's fun to think about
Originally I thought the man in black was death but hearing this with fresh ears John saying “damn you” and the man replying many people have refers to people saying god damn made me more lean towards it being god. I still prefer it being death but idk
All in favor of Cowbois and Cowbaes being the way us Lore Dump fans refer to ourselves/are referred to, please say “aye”? Edit: Also, on Chase not liking RDR2- someone said something rather poignant once and it stuck with me- ‘you can dislike something, and still acknowledge that it is a well-made piece of art, the two things are not mutually exclusive.’ Chase not giving with RDR2 doesn’t mean he doesn’t think it’s a good game, it’s just not one he would play/connect with. And the fact that he was so willing to sit here and listen to his friends talk about these games for hours is really lovely imo :)
Not sure if this was answered but as per the US-Mexico border around this time, it was super permeable and blurry, it was actually really common for a lot of Mexican men to get hired to do seasonal agricultural work in Texas/New Mexico and then leave when the planting/harvesting season was over
I find Chase's distaste for superheroes so interesting, considering his taste in media being over-the-top, wacky, (relatively)unserious anime, and games like Yakuza and Kingdom Hearts, because superhero comics and movies absolutely fit into that.
I don't even understand why anyone would be annoyed if Chase said RDR2 is bad or gave it a lower score, like, he doesn't say it's objectively bad and you're not allowed to enjoy it, he's clearly stating his own subjective assessment of the game.
hey now, the herding cattle and farming is the part that's what's *actually* being a Cowboy. The other stuff is just the Genre of Western. if there ain't now cows then there ain't no Cowboys XP. you can't complain about your cowboy game having too much of the cowboy part lmao
Before the end of January! They're going live for patrons soon and then will be released bi-weekly from Dec 11th - B2, Infinite on New Years Day, and Burial at Sea on the 15th Jan! - Monty
Ofc Chase would like the wacky characters of RDR1 over the comparatively measured side characters in RDR2 lol. It's hard to gauge what level of video game nonsense he will like: some MGS stuff is okay, Resident Evil is INTENSELY eye-rolled at, but somehow... Kingdom of Hearts is great...? Lol. But hey... He knows what he likes when he sees it and he isn't afraid to voice his opinions and I respect that 🫡 lol
As an anthropology major, yeah uh, those people weren’t really good, and the good juicy bits of the field pop up more and more after Cultural Relativism is defined: wherein you look at a culture and society in the context of their regions, myths, and general practices.
It has the same energy of Freeza in Home For Infinite Losers having written on a whiteboard things he might be able to make fun of Cell for, and on the side is just the text "AM I GAY?"
5 US Code Section 3108 - Employment of detective agencies Pinkerton Det. Agency and similar organizations. Individuals employed by the Pinkertons or similar cannot be employed by the US government. Known as the Anti-Pinkerton Act of 1893. They committed crimes so egregious that Congress banned them from ever being hired by the US Government. Specifically their strikebreaking and union busting tactics. There's obviously more nuance as well, but that is the gist.
October! We’re treating it like a “Halloween special” and I want as much time as possible (with new game plus, DLC etc) to get my thoughts together. But it’s definitely going to be meaty!
Maybe I misheard but I think Neil said that RD1 was set a few months after the events of RD2’s epilogue. It was actually set 12 years after those events(hate pulling an “uhm actually” lol). I think that timing really colors the changes (and lack of changes) found in the characters from RD2, such as John, Bill, Javier and especially Dutch. Love the content, guys! Keep it up!
I had to double check this. Because I could have sworn at end of RD1 that Jack was way younger than like 25
@opinionpaladin6007 to me he looks like 20 or 21, but I think he's like 17 or 18?
RDR2 was 1899, RDR2 epilogue was 1907, RDR1 was 1911 and the epilogue was ~1914. The years 1899 and 1911 were in a lot of the marketing for the games, so it's safe to say those are accurate.
I find it weird that there is even a debate about this. The in game newspapers always tell you what year it currently is. To be clear: rdr2 1899-1907, rdr1 1911-1914
@@rjstuller1There are people that think Arthur and John are like 2-3 years apart in age, rather than 10.
Hearing Neil tell Chase that he'll make him *cry* at Spiderman fuckin set off MY Spidey Senses!
Neil has been resurrected in pure commitment to the series so he's ready for Undead Nightmare
A new Lore Dump with Neil in the Chair? My day just got much better. Also nice to hear Neil being healthy again
I can’t help but smile like a fucking idiot through these entire streams. Neil’s time in the chair is priceless.
Idk if Neil realizes, I'm only halfway through, but 2's epilogue is 4 years prior to 1.
2 takes place in 1899, 2's epilogue is 8 years later in 1907, 1 is 4 years later in 1911, and 1's epilogue is 3 years later in 1914.
Yeah, minute 16 I was like "no... it's not a few months, it's 4 years."
I don't remember if this was mentioned in the RDR 2 episode, but there, you can find a letter to Bonnie in one of a few locations. Turns out the man you find there was her lover, who promised to return soon, but given that he's dead, didn't. It really adds even more sadness to Bonnie's loneliness.
Fantastic episode, well done Neil! I just love how the two mainline games have had a trend of Neil despairing over how few pages he’s been over as the conversation has already turned to chaos lmao
Another interesting theory I saw from a TH-camr on who the man in black is for the context of this game specifically is that he may be a depiction of Caine from the story of Caine and Able because after committing the first murder God forbids him entrance to Heaven nor suffering in Hell and instead makes it so that he will never die and is left to wander Earth eternally thinking about what he did and what he started. The evidence to support this would be giving John the choices he does seeing how someone very much so like him decides to do things, and that he can’t remember his name because he’s not being coy with John, it’s that he has been wandering for so long that he legitimately cannot remember what he was called long ago.
I love that I gasped at the same time you both did when Chase said Superheroes were lower than cowboys. Also Monty I agree. Can’t wait for Chase to see the wonderful world of the two biggest superheroes best gaming outings.
CHASE DON’T READ THIS NEXT PART. ONLY FOR MONTY AND NEAL.
“I am gonna make you cry at Spider-Man” Neal I agree. I for some reason think that ending is gonna be the thing to really hit chase. It’s one of my favorite moments in both gaming and Spider-Man.
So, Chase gets a bit confused about timelines here, and yeah, it's fucking weird. The first commercial machine gun, the Maxim Gun, went on sale in 1888, the one in Red Dead should be a Browning M1895, considered old and out of date by 1911. To be really fucked up with Wild West stuff, famous lawman Wyatt Earp died in his 80s in 1929, he literally almost lived to see the second world war. At the time RDR1 takes place New York is building a fully electric Subway system, gasoline powered taxis are common in Paris, and Germany is already building Uboats.
Loving Neil's characterizations. I'm so glad he came back from the dead to give us this amazing dump.
In response to the timeline funfacts: Oxford university predates the Aztec Empire by almost 400 years (Oxofrd was founded in 1096, Aztec Empire began in the 1420s). Oxford is the second oldest university on earth (predated only by Bologna) and Spanish propoganda painting the Aztecs as uneducated "savages" tends to make us assume it was much older than it actually was, so people are always surprised by the order of these!
Things about as old as Oxford: Roman Catholicism (the great schism which split the Orthodox and Catholic churchs into two sepperate demoninations was in the 1050s), the tower of London (built in 1078), the theory that weather and climate change creates the landscape rather than the earth having been entirely shaped by gods (proposed by a chinese geologist, shen kuo, in the c. 1090s), movable type (1040s), and London Bridge falling down (it was demolished by a tornado in 1091, the first of many london bridges to fall down over the following centuries)
As for the mammoths, is it possible Chase was thinking of Aurochs? They are to cows what mammoths are to elephants and bison are to goats (i.e. the prehistoric megafauna variant) and they didn't die out completely until the 1600s.
You have made TH-cam a better place today, and I salute you
I love this podcast so much!!!
Can't wait for the Spider-man episodes.
2:23:52 ross isn’t a Pinkerton by this point anymore. He is a federal agent. It’s implied to be the early makings of the FBI/CIA
historically the Pinkerton's detective agency became the FBI. the CIA didnt show up until the cold war and they were a special spy force that was set up during ww2 and worked with the early version of the british spy force. fun fact the writer of james bond got all his story ideas from his time as a spy in ww2.
Was not expecting this one so quickly! Absolutely excited for 3 more hours of pirate facts, and Neil's cowboy voice. Haven't played RDR1 since release, so we're basically learning together on this one.
Edit: And Chase is going to be doing Yakuza?! It's like Christmas, lads!
they need to stop doing games im trying to play cause they make me wanna wait to hear them tell the story
I hope the fun facts stay forever, comedy gold
In red dead 2 in the cabin you find the strange man’s writings and it all but confirms he’s the devil. There are more references to deals and those deals not being what you think etc
I actually can disagree since the powers the strange man uses are more an act of Karma not something evil or bad. It's killing people but not because he wanted that to happen but the hatred of one bad human
Neil is ALIVE!!! Lets go finally the gang is back. Jokes aside it’s good to hear from you guys again.
I've been waiting for this. I'm running out of new long form videos.
Im gonna listen to this during work. Time passes by real fast when I listen to you guys lol
I'm so excited for this video, and all the projects you guys have planned.
Yes the 2024 line up is so hype.
I appreciate the addressing of the comments from RDR2. People dont seem to get that friends disagree on shit all the time
As always thank you for all of y’all’s hard work you guys have been my favorite podcast to listen to. Keep up the amazing work Chase,Monty, and Neil! And have a great day
Resident evil did the zero prequel before yakuza, thought you ought to know
I def see the man in black as being a devil archetype as he fits with a lot of that kind of folklore, but I also sort of saw him as a personification of the world (the Americas or the dying old West) itself.
Nothing better than finishing work early on a Friday and coming home to a new Lore Dump
Now just to go get myself an Adult Juice...
10 minutes in, and we've got catgirl John Marston. no notes. just pure glee from this Lore Dump.
It's good to see Neil is good and healthy and ready to torment chase in this video thank you for the new upload 😀
Y’know, as someone who has played neither game, on the comment of “it feels like an extended epilogue for 2” I honestly kind of like that. I’m big fan of unconventional story structure, and I like that before 2 came and gave us the bigger picture, 1 was just a tiny glimpse into johns life. We’re given control of this legendary gunslinger, but instead of playing through his glory days and seeing his full journey, we’re dropped right into the end, where all that’s left is a sad old man, trying to make up for his mistakes, no more glory to be found, just the fallout
Clarification: RDR2 takes place in 1899, RDR1 takes place in 1911.
Finally! I replayed RDR2 in between the episodes haha. Looking forward to watching this!
RDR is the first game I ever bought by myself when I was a kid, bought it second hand and to this day it’s still one of my favorite games ever, only topped by RDR2, but that one came out waaay later haha
😊
"we're doing yakuza next year" holy shit looking forward to that
I think it chases responses and him going "meh" that annoyed people not so much that he didn't like the game
I assume it's been mentioned by someone by now, but there's a fan theory that uncle is actually Red Harlow from Red Dead Revolver. I'm pretty sure it's been debunked, but it's fun to think about
Well, I know what I'm doing for the next three hours.
I looked so forward to this
Did we discuss the theory that Uncle was Red Harlow from RDR?
Originally I thought the man in black was death but hearing this with fresh ears John saying “damn you” and the man replying many people have refers to people saying god damn made me more lean towards it being god. I still prefer it being death but idk
All in favor of Cowbois and Cowbaes being the way us Lore Dump fans refer to ourselves/are referred to, please say “aye”?
Edit: Also, on Chase not liking RDR2- someone said something rather poignant once and it stuck with me- ‘you can dislike something, and still acknowledge that it is a well-made piece of art, the two things are not mutually exclusive.’ Chase not giving with RDR2 doesn’t mean he doesn’t think it’s a good game, it’s just not one he would play/connect with. And the fact that he was so willing to sit here and listen to his friends talk about these games for hours is really lovely imo :)
Cowbois,, Cowbaes and CowTheys- aye!
@@LoreDump The Lore Bois are the only vote I need, (Fun Fact: the Cowbois, Baes, and Theys are not a democracy), the ‘ayes’ have it!
Aye
Ready for the cowboys >:3
Bonnie is my favorite character, she's just so awesome
Neil is back let's go! Love your videos man.
Not sure if this was answered but as per the US-Mexico border around this time, it was super permeable and blurry, it was actually really common for a lot of Mexican men to get hired to do seasonal agricultural work in Texas/New Mexico and then leave when the planting/harvesting season was over
Its great to hear all the boys back together. ❤❤❤
Here I wasn't expecting this till the 15th or after, cheers lads hope Neil is feeling better.
Lore dump has a new episode out so it's gonna be a great day!
I find Chase's distaste for superheroes so interesting, considering his taste in media being over-the-top, wacky, (relatively)unserious anime, and games like Yakuza and Kingdom Hearts, because superhero comics and movies absolutely fit into that.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAA
SO EXCITED!!!! Just woke up too!! Can't wait to listen to Neil :D
1:12:50 RDR2 developed Bill and Javier a lot more. In 1 they're just generic bad guys for John to kill.
27:40 the more i learn about Thatcher, the more i hate her
I don't even understand why anyone would be annoyed if Chase said RDR2 is bad or gave it a lower score, like, he doesn't say it's objectively bad and you're not allowed to enjoy it, he's clearly stating his own subjective assessment of the game.
Just what I needed in my ears while scrubbed the shower panels clean by hand lol
2:47:26 I'm leaving this as a bookmark for myself
No cops at Pride but Marshall is allowed to watch from a distance
1:50:03 The Mexico part of RDR1 is just like Guarma in 2. Filler to pad out the game.
hey now, the herding cattle and farming is the part that's what's *actually* being a Cowboy. The other stuff is just the Genre of Western. if there ain't now cows then there ain't no Cowboys XP. you can't complain about your cowboy game having too much of the cowboy part lmao
you guys should do Red Dead Revolver!!
Another name that is surprisingly older than one would expect is tiffany which orignated in midevil times.
ahh, back to pirates on horses!
oh heck yeah a new episode
IM LOOKING FOWARD TO THE NEIL LORE AND HOPEFULLY PIRATE LORE
It’s been a few years since the end of 2. Jack is 15 where as before he was 12 or 13
Cowboys? Nah , they're just land-locked pirates
Between RDR2 loredump and RDR1 I've bought and completed RDR2 after 100 hours, I bought RDR2 solely because of Niels description of RDR2
I'm excited for the batman and spider-man games but let's be real, we NEED the Guardians of the galaxy game (better than the movies imo)
That's why they're the goats! THE GOATS
Monty, the BioShock episodes are coming out before the end of the year, right? Or am i misremembering?
Before the end of January! They're going live for patrons soon and then will be released bi-weekly from Dec 11th - B2, Infinite on New Years Day, and Burial at Sea on the 15th Jan! - Monty
@@LoreDump gotcha. I'm a Patreon, so I'm glad that I'll get em a bit earlier :)
Oh hell yeah
Ofc Chase would like the wacky characters of RDR1 over the comparatively measured side characters in RDR2 lol. It's hard to gauge what level of video game nonsense he will like: some MGS stuff is okay, Resident Evil is INTENSELY eye-rolled at, but somehow... Kingdom of Hearts is great...? Lol.
But hey... He knows what he likes when he sees it and he isn't afraid to voice his opinions and I respect that 🫡 lol
Red Dead Redemption 3: *_Screw the government, I have a plan!_*
As an anthropology major, yeah uh, those people weren’t really good, and the good juicy bits of the field pop up more and more after Cultural Relativism is defined: wherein you look at a culture and society in the context of their regions, myths, and general practices.
Let's go chase!!!! One piece is actually amazing, both anime, manga, and live action.
I am also enjoying the queer readings Neil is finding in this game, we love problematic gays. Neil loudly saying "GAY?" Made me laugh so hard
It has the same energy of Freeza in Home For Infinite Losers having written on a whiteboard things he might be able to make fun of Cell for, and on the side is just the text "AM I GAY?"
5 US Code Section 3108 - Employment of detective agencies Pinkerton Det. Agency and similar organizations. Individuals employed by the Pinkertons or similar cannot be employed by the US government. Known as the Anti-Pinkerton Act of 1893.
They committed crimes so egregious that Congress banned them from ever being hired by the US Government. Specifically their strikebreaking and union busting tactics. There's obviously more nuance as well, but that is the gist.
One Piece lore dump? Uhh yes please.
I IMPLORES you to like and comment for the algorithm.
The Strange man is 'GAVIN', those who know, know
Algorithm feeding comment
I'm the 100th comment! What's my prize?
Monty when is Alan wake 2 coming out? It’s greater than you could have ever imagined and I’m expecting a 4 hour episode ❤️
October! We’re treating it like a “Halloween special” and I want as much time as possible (with new game plus, DLC etc) to get my thoughts together. But it’s definitely going to be meaty!
@@MontyZander awesome! Gonna be a long wait but I’m excited none the less