Marlin vs. Duet - The best Control System for 3D Printing
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.พ. 2019
- There are many options for upgrading the control board on your 3D printer. Ramps based control boards running Marlin are all but standard these days. Most people think they should just get a more powerful version of their current setup, but Duet3D offers superior hardware and firmware albeit, at a higher price point. With the addition of the Duet Maestro, we now have a lower cost yet fully functional option for running RepRapFirmware on our printers.
The Duet Wifi is Idiot Proof: • How not to treat your ...
Duet Maestro, Ethernet, and Wifi Comparison chart: fitforlaunch.com/projects/due...
Using Duet Maestro or WiFi with external motor drivers: duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Using_...
A good touch on the surface, would have added a lot more depth if you had further explored the schematics for each board, which would give more info on why they function that way. And probably more about the code base of Marlin vs RepRap firmware, which would reveal more about why Marlin is "preferred" over RepRap.
In fact, Marlin is more mature than RepRapFirmware. Therefore there are some features or refinements which it has that RRF does not have (Such as Live Z adjustment). Eventually RRF will have all of the features/refinements which make sense to have (there is some bloat in Marlin). The reason RRF is preferable is because it is so easy to configure for your printer. It is so easy to use, and it is so easy to upgrade your printer. Doing all these things pretty much just involves editing Macros. These Macros just consist of Gcode commands. You are already using Gcode with your 3D Printer, so you won't have to learn a programming language. There is even an online configurator which will build your Macro directory for you!
Contrast that with Marlin: If you want to configure it, or upgrade your printer, you will need to modify the base code of the firmware. You do this through the Arduino programming environment. This is a version of C++ programming language which you will have to learn. Not only that, but you will need to figure out the structure of the firmware. True, most things can be modified from the config.h file, but there are other parameters tucked away in funky locations. I've been at my wits end on multiple occasions and had to solicit help from a friend of mine who is an expert with building that firmware.
@@DesignPrototypeTest RRF does have live-z, it's called baby-steps. doh, duh, doh....
@@gnydick True enough, but my experience with baby stepping on my Tevo Little Monster wasn't stellar. So, I went looking on the duet forum and I found some possibly outdated criticism about baby stepping ( forum.duet3d.com/topic/6773/z-compensation-rules-when-it-s-on-when-it-s-off ). Most likely my problem with baby stepping can be attributed to the older Duet board I have installed in my TLM but also baby stepping does lag. This makes it difficult to use. It doesn't work as well as LiveZ on marlin, so my original critique is still valid: RRF still lacks some refinement which Marlin possesses. RRF is superior, but not perfect.
@@DesignPrototypeTest Yeah, baby-stepping isn't (wasn't) as good. I suggested to them to change it to have immediate effect. The problem was that it would wait for things in the queue to execute before taking effect. It was an issue with timing, the developer wasn't sure about accidentally causing missed steps by trying to apply a change while things were executing. He never followed up with me, but in subsequent firmware updates, it seems as though he took my suggestion because it doesn't seem to wait as long anymore. That could be a false observation though.
There are other issues with the implementation. For example, if you home your Z, then reset babysteps, the bed (or gantry) will move, but the Z-position doesn't change in the firmware, so that can lead to being at the wrong height. I'm going to actually mention that to him today, to probably change the way it's implemented.
@@gnydick WOW! That's you in the forum post that I linked. How cool is that. :)
this is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you!
this is excellent, thank you! now to find those board in my neck of the woods
if you have a neck in the woods, you can't get it.
Thanks for taking the time to pull them boards out so we could see them the time you put in explaining them is phenomenal. Thank you very much,good sir.
I was just thinking about using a teensy as a microcontroller and writing most of the firmware from scratch, just to see how far I could come. It's probably one of those projects that'll go nowhere but its funny that, right when I started to think about the possibilities, you create the perfect video about the current state of controller boards. Super helpful; thanks!
If anyone is capable of this it is you Constantijn. I always found it interesting the similarities between Repetier firmware and Marlin. Then I realized that they are essentially forks and combinations of the same original open source firmware projects which folks in the past were working on. Maybe you could find an old precursor to Marlin/Repetier and fork it for the Teensy.
i think marlin 2.0 supports teensy already. iirc, i saw the example config file.
@@DesignPrototypeTest You're flattering me too much! ☺️I was thinking of forking the current marlin version. Is there any reason not to fork the current one, other than that marlin is pretty big and therefore not as straightforward as some of the earliest versions?
@@evertchin Interesting... Will look into that. Wintersemester is almost over and then I'll have plenty of time on my hands 🙌:D
Thank you for effort and great review.
Would love to see an updated video of this also comparing the th3d ezboard and the skr
Great video. I have a Voron 2 with Klipper installed in a RPi+SKR1.3+TMC2209 configuration and I have no doubt that it is the best printer I ever had. Just the gantry level feature worths it. I had another printer with a Duet 2 and I can say with no doubt that it is a great board but the configuration of my Voron 2 is way better.
Love the video. Thanks. If you run a Duet board via ethernet or Wifi, can you turn the computer off once the printing has started? Or do you have to keep the computer running the whole time?
@Pilot16H Thanks, Pilot. That's what I would have assumed. I asked because I don't seem to be able to do that with my tethered i3 Mini. Not having to mess around with SD cards is a very attractive idea to my mind. Much appreciated. Thanks again.
Pilot16H is correct, but it is even better than that. You can disconnect your computer, then open up the web interface with your phone, then open it with your computer again and the printer will just continue working flawlessly.
where is the compering of the two systems, the only thing i see is a duet fanboy?!
What do you think of the Skr 32 bits board... the 1.4 turbo for exemple?
The problem i have is that i "upgraded" both of my creality printers with duet after the stepper driver broke on one of them, and i had nothing but problems with them.
The lesson i kinda got from that is that duet is kinda good for beginner (like an apple kinda deal) that has its whole ecosystems, but if you have a problem, than you get shafted.
I dont know if that is true exactly, but i feels like it.
i like the camera idea for the octoprint just to be able to keep an eye on my prints when i have to leave, i just got my first raspberry pi about a week ago an still haven't set octoprint up on it cause i keep playing with all the other stuff i can do with it so i'll probably end up picking up another one just for octoprint, any suggestions on them memory? the first one i got is 4gig an ive not seen it be sluggish at anything yet unless it was internet related an that was with wifi an my shit internet net speeds. or should i look into a 32 bit board just to go into my printer, i have the ender 5 a little over 3 months old.
I just ordered a AnyCubic 4max Pro do you think a Duet can be installed on this printer and add an E3d hottend? I am brand new to this where can I start to learn how to do that?
Just got my Duet 2 Maestro today. Booted it up connected to an Ethernet to Wifi adapter I had in a drawer. Worked great. DPT is so right! RepRap is so much better for an end user. Still have yet to install the board, waiting on the Maestro install video for the Ender 3 Pro, same as my printer. But so far, WOW. So easy. Worth the dollars.
I'm thinking about the Duet2, but I'm hung up on the ethernet vs. wifi version. It sounds like the ethernet version gives you the best of both worlds? (a simple wifi dongle gave you wifi?)
@@pfschuyler Yes. Worked like a charm! Ethernet to wifi, connected it up to my computer to configure it. Then plugged in my printer. I have been working like this for over a year now.
@@JimPBarber Thanks for the feedback. So would you say its worth it to get the Ethernet over WIFI versions? Which would be easier to manage in your opinion?
@@pfschuyler A straight wireless would be easier to manage being it would be inbuilt. Less complex for certain. However, as a network engineer I prefer the flexibility that the ethernet provides. I have setup a print farm and, within that farm I prefer ethernet for its ease of use aggregating the printers to a single switch. However, for my personal stand alone printer I utilize an ethernet to wireless adapter again for flexibility of location. So, it really depends on the application. Going from ethernet to wireless is easy and about $20.00 to 40.00 will get you wireless. To go from Wireless to Ethernet is not as simple or cheap. Also, there is the ever evolving wireless standards a/c/n/mimio etc.... I can upgrade to the latest as it evolves with ethernet easily by buying the latest ethernet to wireless adapter. Not so much with a strict wireless on the board chip that is limited to the technology it was manufactured with. But, I will say it again. Straight wireless is the more simplistic solution if you are willing to accept it's inherent limitations.
Hi in one of your tutorials on cnc engravers you mentioned artcam free software unfortunately though, artcam is now discontinued. Would you please recommend an alternate software...am struggling to find a user friendly software to generate gcodes for the cnc engraver
Did you ever get your Ender 3 pro upgraded? I was thinking of doing the same duet 2 upgrade to my Ender 3 pro. The original board went bad after 2 weeks. However I do not need the WiFi. Wanting to use the Maestro and use the original Ender 3 pro screen! Thanks!
Yes. Here is the latest video in that series th-cam.com/video/qXUtxt61Ae0/w-d-xo.html Also, I'm nearly done with an entirely new build installing a Maestro into an Ender 3 Pro.
Design Prototype Test thanks I am looking forward to it!
Marlin is being forked to 32 bits. Marlin V2 will be 32 bit.
I've had the one click=two problem on Marlin with the Rep-Rap smart controller (4x20 LCD), and was able to fix it in the firmware. The problem has to do with the way that the encoder works, some of those switch type encoders go though one cycle per detent, some go though two. That is if one output, or two outputs change between detents. Marlin has a #define statement in the source to set this, if RepRap Firmware has a gcode to do the same, then it can be fixed without making a change in the source code and rebuilding the firmware.
Have you tried the Lerdge board? It seems to have the same things as the Duet but for less money.
It's not open source, and is not nearly as customizable.
i wonder if you have a video on how to config the duet for a Delta printer ?
The creality display will work, you just have to make your own wiring harness. The pins are all there they're just in different places cause manufacturers haven't decided on an appropriate standard
Do you have it working like that, and if yes, would there be a link to the wire setup?
@@llejk Not Currently on a duet but I have an anet a8 display working with a melzi board, the process is simple just find the schematics and match the pins to one another. The creality files can be found on the github cause its open source.
The worst part about installing octopi (octoprint) on your pi is remembering to change the keyboard layout first thing before you are forced to change the wifi password so you can connect.. If you didn't then it would load the USA keyboard in linux when it saw yours and then your password won't work because you did the setup with the euro keyboard settings. I hope they fixed that bug but it used to make you have to just start from scratch every time.
Regarding Klipper on the Duet2 (20m mark), the Klipper3d's benchmark page seems to suggest it can be installed on the Duet2?
Based on the Installation instructions, it's not clear what the output file is for "make menuconfig" or how "make flash" would connect to flash it.
Also, any thoughts on akaJes/marlin-config? That also seems to configure Marlin and flash it.. however not sure if it supports Klipper.
BTW the benchmark page shows Metro M4 as having the greatest number of steps per second (ATSAMD51 620k).. any thoughts on that board? The MKS Gen L 1.0's ATmega2560 does only 23k!
www.robotrebels.org/index.php?topic=769.0
Such good content!
I saw Thomas Sanladerer at a 3d-printing convention where this board was demostrated to him. They used a 7 inch oled display.
Do you know if there is such a screen for the Duet?
Yes. It's called "Panel Due" it's available from Duet here: www.duet3d.com/DuetAddons
Duet have ethernet port and mega 2560+ramps 1.4 add W5500 Wiznet module ?
Great review, could you show us some print samples on Merlin and Duet? some catchy benchy and how does the jerk20 and jerk8 works on MKS_L and Duet? Thanks...
If you set them up correctly there is absolutely no difference in print quality between the two. In other words, you can set up Duet to have the exact same behavior as your Marlin build had, and your prints will look exactly the same.
I am sure a legit Duet board is great ( although expensive ) But are you sponsored by them? I have watched a few of your videos and you really push them to the point of almost an Infomercial.
I'm not sponsored. I just really love this control board, and I never want to touch a Marlin build again. I will tell you all when/if I ever get a sponsorship. I wouldn't hide something like that.
Jerry, DPT and I rarely see eye to eye but Duet is a great board.
I agree Eddie but where I still have issues is what if you want something added to it as you need it then you are stuck waiting on them to added it as people were for Smoothie. Come to find out a lot of what people wanted wouldn't come until later boards you get to buy again but I haven't kept up on them in a couple of years due to that. Now on Marlin, or Repetier firmware you can add your own routines or tweak the routines in them as needed.
@@thebeststooge I got tired of waiting for smoothie devs to add some basic features which Marlin and Duet have and I just figured I'd add it myself, and after a few hours on the weekend I got great z-probing multi probe support working with tolerance checking -- not that hard. RRF is a bit harder to wrap your head around in terms of the underlying C code, but I've made modifications to it as well -- I now have my patch of changes I carry from build to build lol.
@@thebeststooge as @kazolar mentioned below, the RepRap Firmware that Duet runs is Open just like Marlin. its feature cycle does tend to be considerably slower though.
Thanks for your efforts in helping us the many upgrades and other possibilties.
The Ender Pro + Meastro upgrade, can you share the link please.
all upgrades are good and well, but how does it print? could you make a video whats actualy the improvment in surface quality? thanks for that mate.
There is a ceiling to print quality with FDM printing. The stock Ender 3 is capable of making prints which are every bit as anything else on the market. The quality of the parts will depend more on your skill and patience with setting up the print through your slicer software than it will depend on the machine itself. With all my modifications these printers still perform the same. So, why bother to upgrade? It's like the difference between driving a BMW vs a GEO Metro. Both will get you down the road at the speed limit. One has a lot more luxury and safety features. Which one would you rather drive?
@@DesignPrototypeTest well I look for performance and accuracy😁 so I think i will buy one of thes boards.
You are going to love duet3 version.
Duet 2 Ethernet version, paneldue 7i touchscreen, precision piezo bed height system, on a Tevo Little Monster Delta Monster for a year now and am thrilled!
Thanks for this video 👍
I have some questions, I want to make my own 3d printer like Ender 5, but with 3 Z-AXIS, 3 Z-endstops for real auto leveling and 2 extruder. Can I realized this with this Board ?? Where I do connect 2 more Stepper driver and endstops?
Or know anyone a other not so experience Board that can manage that. Is the duet a 32bit board
Get the skr Pro board and use 1 of the 3 extruders ports as a stepper port, this should give you 3 motorized z-axis and 2 extruders and cost 1/3 of what duet costs. You can get the board from BIQU website.
I think an even more interesting (and more balanced) comparison would actually be between a rPI+Ramps/SKR Klipper setup vs a Duet setup. They both run basically the same software and feature basically the same awesome web interface (from what I gather, Klipper runs a more frequently updated version), they both have excellent connectivity for multiple steppers and accessories, but a Klipper setup seems to have some advantages (freedom to choose the stepper drivers, lower cost, support for OctoPrint - even though Octoprint is kind of superfluous with these two setups)
Are there any TFT touch screens that will work with the Maestro board to eliminate the issue of the encoder inaccuracies?
At this time, your only options are the RepRap Discount Full Graphics display or the Panel Due which costs around $80 USD. Personally, I don't use a screen with my Duet builds.
May well be easily solved by modifying the encoder with some capacitors. To dampen the switch stutter.
The encoder inaccuracy is just a configuration issue - there are rotary encoders which do two or four pulses per step, configure the correct number (i.e. 4 pulses for the creality displays) and you are fine.
Thx for the vid! I've been wondering about these different boards for a while ever since seeing you're video about adding the Duet wifi to the ender 3.
I'm excited to see how the new ender 3 build with the maestro goes too :)
People seem to like to give you flak and 'correct' you all the time but the fact is that your making videos other people aren't (least that I've seen) and so I appreciate it. Have a good one! 👍
Thank you!
Can we use servo motor with the duet board?
Thanks
Can i connect large size Nema34 stepper motor driver to the Duet Maestro board. I need pin out on the board in order to do it. I mean it should be pin notation on the board , for example to add large driver for Y axis motor i need " Dir-Y, Step-Y, ANABLE-XYE, GRD pins on the board in order to do that.
You should not use the onboard Stepper motor drivers on a Duet Wifi to drive Nema 34 sized stepper motors. At best you can drive a Nema 23. More information here: duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Choosing_and_connecting_stepper_motors
I´m looking at an SKR 1.1 Pro right now for dual extruder set up. 32 bit ST ARM processor, plenty of processing power there.
I´ll be running with that soon in an ender 5. It also has an ESP Wifi module connector,
if I ever want to connect my printer in my network, it´s kinda gimmicky, it takes hours for a print, not seconds like paper printers.
Hi, you can use the Ender 3 lcd with the maestro - either by using two cables with the additional two connectors flipped over or by making your own split cable for the maestro board. Relevant forum thread where I added an easy howto for the split approach: forum.duet3d.com/topic/7609/configuring-12864-lcd-on-maestro/65
Thank you!
Hi, I'm just getting into 3d printing - if I understand correctly, the controller board itself does not really have a direct impact on print quality; just creature comforts?
you do not understand correctly. While they have they own "creature comforts", these are different brains for your machine and will certainly change print quality.
@@mtraven23 Can you tell me what makes a board more or less precise than another board?
@@fredwupkensoppel8949 I can try, but there are many people more qualified than me...I have been into 3dp on and off since I built my printer 3 years ago
Is it safe to assume you are looking at only 32 bit boards? If not, that's the first big thing, processing power-bits & frequency. a 32 bit control board may or may not make your machine better (prob will). There is a lot of math happening to control the print head, even more if you run a delta and even more if its a big delta like mine. Processing 32bits in every clock cycle gets things done faster (and without lag or stuttering), add to that most 32bit control boards are running in the 70-120 mhz range (vs ~16mhz for an arduino mega) and you really open up a lot of time the program loop. If you are just getting into it, I might recommend an inexpensive starter setup based around the mega & ramps 1.4 and cheap A4988 stepsticks. This is a modest control system, but well tested, supported by firmware and simple to setup. That is where I started, my peak achievement was printing a functional planetary gearbox with double helix gears. My point is, these new systems are amazing, but many many users find a simple 8bit system to be sufficient.
on to drivers --you asked specifically about precision, that's a compilation of many factors, instead we can talk about resolution. Boils down to how many steps per rotation, more = finner resolution, but also slower speed. 8 bit controllers usually break 1 rotation into 32 steps, where as 32bit controllers are up to 256 steps / rotation and they have the processing power to send all those pulses.
I could go on and on, perhaps you could share some info about your printer or what your purposes are for 3d printing.
@@mtraven23 Thank you for your time. My friend and I are looking to buy a Prusa Mini and want to print mostly functional stuff. But we do want to take 3dp up as a new hobby, so printing pretty things or even tools like the nasa wrench should definitely be an option too.
At 25:03, should be really easy to fix for any seasoned developer as I've built projects with a continuous knob and was able to find code snippet that worked perfectly without error!
Hai DriverSteve, Is there any tips or link for integrating to a 20 x 4 lcd screen (lcd 2004). I'm new and wanted to get a duet. But I'm not sure if it's possible?
With its current hardware on board i wouldnt say the Duet wifi is "overbuilt" for 3d printing. It doesnt have the power to handle a USB camera, or even uploading of files during printing process as ALL the processing power gets put into running the mathematics of the printing process. Further updates are supposted to address this so you wouldnt need a pi on top of a duet to run timelapses for example directly thru the duet board.
"It doesnt have the power to ... uploading of files during printing process" This is wrong. I just double checked and uploaded a new .gcode file to the Duet WiFi while it was in the middle of a print.
I already run a DSLR camera directly through my Duet to achieve Octolapse like photography: th-cam.com/video/CwHVQ81GfXw/w-d-xo.html
Would you happen to have the pin diagram for the Geeetech Smartto V1.0 motherboard used in the A30T?
This basically just comes across to me like bashing non-Duet boards and then talking about Duet boards.
If you gave a car enthusiast a smart car and a Ferrari, ans asked him to compare the two, which one do you think he would talk about more?
@@DesignPrototypeTest smart.
If I wanted a 4x6x6 foot build volume[which is my plan] is it just that simple to configure the build volume?... or is there a limit on that board?
The Duet Board will handle that volume without issue. It's just a matter of changing the min and max travel limits (4 variables) in the config.g file. Easy. The problems you will face with such a large machine are mechanical in nature. Good luck man!
@@DesignPrototypeTest I'm using endstops for each axis. 4 z motors 2 y 1 x linear rails all the way around x and y pushed with leads screws not pulleys...yea I've got my work cut out for me!but I love it 👍😜💯💪
Don't use a Maestro for this project. The Stepper Drivers aren't powerful enough. The Duet Wifi or Ethernet has the more powerful stepper drivers, but they don't have enough plugs for all these steppers, so you will need to get fancy with your wiring. Look up the difference between wiring those stepper motors in series vs parallel.
@@DesignPrototypeTest thanx for tips... I will be buying the Duet Wi-Fi ..I assumed that there was an adapter that would allow the extra connections!?
Perfect timing!! I just ordered a Maestro for my Ender 3, so I’ll be following along!!
Bell clicked!
i want to replace the original melzi creality v1.1.3 ender 3 board that has the input voltage 24v and the mk10 hot end with mainboard mks gen l v1.0 plus tft 2.8 touch screen and titan aero 1.75mm 24v, is this possible ?
-on my creality mainboard at ''fans, hot bed, nozzle '' write 12v, but i measure that and i was expected to be 24 but it was 12 v both -so my nozzle theoretical is 24, but it has 12 volts on the mainboard, that is a problem? if i will buy the titan aero hot end what voltage do i have to buy it ? -the melzi mainboard from creality has a ''atmega1284p microproccesor'',but the mks gen l has ''32-bit STM32 microprocessor'' -is that a problem if mks gen l has a 32-bits microprocessor? i mean if it has bore bits that the atmega. Can it burn ? -is the melzi mainboard has theoretica 3* 12 v blocks but in reality 3* 24 volts what voltage need the mks gen l board to have ? if it has 12 volts the al that 3 components to wich need 24 v is going to be any problem ? -that 3 component ''fans, hot end, hot bed '' are in reality 24 volts, the matter if on that mainboard is 12 or 24 volts ?
You didn't watch the video did you? Your convoluted question is the perfect illustration of why I say: Just get a Duet. It will work. It will be WAY easier to set up, and there is probably documentation for how to make everything happen which you want. You won't be in over your head asking some random TH-camr how to make it work.
I have a duet wifi board and just got a cr10s-pro , and do I miss not having the ability of changing all my settings on the fly.
do you have bl touch hooked up to it? if so can you send me your files. having hard time with it
would the TFT screen work with the duet maestro ?
We had troubles with the Pi communication with Arduino 2560, due to
voltage level conversion; in time, it started sending through garbage, if you
wish to upload gcode to Marlin, at a decent speed.
Since the LCD has it's own SD card slot, we thought it's kinda nice
to have Marlin running dedicated.
Besides, we programmed a webserver for the Pi, to be able to
upload files from the web and automated the slicing process.
Now, we can just upload obj/stl and adjust slicer settings on a web page.
No need for octoprint ;)
So ..
We went for a 3V Arduino Due, with a RAMPS-FD, and a tweaked Marlin4Due.
It was a disaster, for while, we got it working, but I wonder...
What would your setup be, for this scenario ?
In particular:
A 3V arduino board, running a normal version of Marlin.
We are thinking about RADDS...
Duet started as a RADDS (Reprap Arduino Due Driver Shield) and then they combined the Arduino and Shield into one PCB, then they just went bonkers making engineering every little detail to be perfect. And they are still making improvements. A Duet Wifi is expensive, but it is well worth it.
@@DesignPrototypeTest
I have a Wifi router, with multiple printers connected (and yes, they're protoypes ;) ).
So, the WiFi is not an issue.
Does Marlin support 3V boards, nowadays ?
Marlin4Due is still expirimental, and discontiuned, after BobC and WurstNase ?
Still looking for the proper firmware, preferably Arduino (open source),
so that it can be tweaked to communicate with my Raspi (WiringPi) webserver.
Because, I wrote my own 6-wire communication protocol (6 data lines )
to speed it up a bit, sending smaller packets with each loop, so it does not interfere
with other processes, like PID and such.
I also bought a Teensy. Seems like a nice board.
Thank goodness other channels tell you how to get the most out of your printer, such as the Ender3. If I followed your channel and listened to you, you would have me replace the board on my machine and spend so much more getting the same functionality I get out of it now following other you-tuber's excellent videos.
I'm only interested in the best. Other channels are welcome to this appeal to the mediocre masses. It doesn't bother me.
If you get a Chinese maestro clone (it is open hardware after all) and put it into the Ender 3 you get pretty much the same functionality and price as a MKS gen L board, trinamic stepper drivers and a Raspberry Pi with Octoprint.
@@christophmuller3511 thanks for the response, and I'll give you some honest feedback that I'll try to make constructive. I belong to a Maker community in Northern VA, (Nova Labs) and have met lots of people interested in 3D printing. Only a couple people that I've met make money in any way with their 3D printer. Most see the entry price as a barrier to justify this as a hobby. If it wasn't for the Ender 3 and it's low entry price I would not be doing 3D printing today. I want to learn and have a growing journey, if you pull me too hard then I won't appreciate it. I know that I may eventually outgrow this printer and want something better or larger. But I love tinkering and seeing how far I can take this printer and get as much functionality and as many features I can cram onto that default board, until the next thing I want to do no longer fits. Then will consider a better board or a better printer altogether, but I need to know where I'm going and why. If I got an Ender 3, then I'm already not going for the best. So your video contradicts itself and that's the reason I feel you don't get me. Maybe I'm not your target audience. My sincere 2cents.
@@DesignPrototypeTest If you are aiming for the best and looking down to the 'mediocre masses' with this high nose attitude, you should at least be well informed before posting a lot of incorrect stuff on your channel.
Just to mention a few:
1. You can run a delta on marlin with a Trigorilla and a 12864 graphics controller. I do. And if you are not happy with the maximum achievable print speed, you still can go for Klipper (which also supports this display. Running it on my ender 3 with mks GEN 1.4 btw.)
2. If you want to stick to compare apples with apples, for a cheap Wi-Fi connection, you don't use a raspberry, you use an ESP-01 for 2-5 dollars and install ESP3D on it. It's attached to the internal serial port with 3 wires.
3. Klipper runs on duet 2 boards. The example config is there since 3 months.
Regards from one from the mediocre masses.
Jorge Jimenez this is not my video. But to give you my perspective: I also run an Ender 3 and I quickly realized that I would run into the flash size limits on the original board if I would do a few updates. Also, as the printer is not running in a separate room I wanted trinamic drivers to make it as silent as possible. That pretty much sealed the deal of going with a new board. I could have gone for a MKS gen L, an Arduino Mega clone + ramps or similar - the maestro just seemed more future proof and it delivered.
can i use duet 2 wifi with terantula or ender 5 or what printer i can get for 300 (not inc circuit)
The Duet 2 Wifi will work with all the normal 3D printer movement types: Cartesian, CoreXY, Core XZ, or Delta. Only the rare and problematic Polar and Scara movements are not supported. all3dp.com/know-your-fdm-3d-printers-cartesian-delta-polar-and-scara/
What about RPi + RAMPS + Klipper combination?
20:25 What I found on the github, Klipper merged a PR so as of November 18 it supports Duet2 boards. It's got its own compile option in the make menu for SAM4E8E chips. Not sure if all features of the board are supported, but it looks like it. After all, all that Klipper does is using the board a "slave unit" to execute the instructions coming from a Raspberry. So it looks like all the Duet is doing then is handling communication to the drivers (and stepping interpolation) and the display at that point. Kind of a waste, but it seems to work.
Thank you for the comment. I spoke incorrectly in the video, but I got the general direction right when I said "Klipper is for Raspberry Pi and Ramps boards. RepRapFirmware is for Duet."
@@DesignPrototypeTest klipper will run just fine on duet boards. Saying klipper is for ramps boards is incorrect.Klipper is not just for running 8 bit boards, though admittedly that is where you will find the best improvements. The benefit over running reprap or marlin firmwares is that proper kinematic calculations are used instead of the hacks marlin and other firmwares were forced to use on underpowered micros. This allows for faster speeds at higher print quality , no need for any sort of "jerk" control.
I will grant you that klipper is much more difficult to set up (still better than recompiling marlin for every change). It would definately benefit from a configuration tool to make things easier.
I am currently running klipper on my ender 3 using both the original melzi board and a custom prototype board. I use an stm32 (blue pill) to drive tmc2208's and the end stops. The melzi board is responsible only for the fans and heaters. Prints are much smoother and I regularly print at 150 mm/s, a speed which would have stalled the steppers on the original config/firmware.
Do you know about CTC? Is that any way I can replace my old CTC control board with new control board that available?
if there Is, any recommendation control board that I can use for low tech person? Thank you for your time
The Duet control board will work with any 3D printer coming from China including CTC. I have many videos about installing the duet board, and the process will be similar for your CTC. Please watch these two videos for more information: th-cam.com/video/G-NJTaDUJ1M/w-d-xo.html and th-cam.com/video/HxEk7-6RriQ/w-d-xo.html
On raspberry you can do more than just octoprint. Like file sharing, dlna server and other like cam and time-lapse. Octoprint is integrated with slicer. Still it communicate with printer board throu USB (or uart) which sometimes can cause problems or delays.
Duet is awesome, all benefits but I can't rid of z seam. With marlin Ive got all tuned up and zseam is bearly noticeable. Taking same slicer settings to Reprap causes small blobs on beginning of loop and cannot hide it with wipe. To be fair I'm still tweeking some settings and use other slicers (simplyfy3d new update is disappointing).
Z seams are a problem in your slicer and Gcode files. It shouldn't have anything to do with Marlin or RepRapFirmware.
@@DesignPrototypeTest kinda does. Marlin ignores some stuff with extruder jerk. Reprap does not, especially with pressure advance. Reprap must stop when going from printing move to not printing move, some recent firmware changes start supporting coasting.
Reprap is still developing and taking requests. I love the extra fitures like laser mode and all gcode config. Marlin maybe change something in 2.0 version.
@@tomaszbiskup891A good reply. Thank you. It's true that RRF is not as mature as Marlin. It will get there. The more popular these boards get, the sooner it will catch up.
Also swap SD cards and your raspberry pi can be a multiuse printing, gaming, and streaming computer. Let's see the Duet do that!
@@222dolson media.giphy.com/media/1M9fmo1WAFVK0/giphy.gif
I have a bit of a confusion as to the point of putting a high end electronics into cheap Chinese printers. Here is my take -- I built a quad independ extruder printer -- large format with a build area of about 550mm cubed depending on how many tools are active in the print. I was ONLY able to build it on the Duet platform, and at that I have my own firmware modifications to expand to 16 steppers. That machine is a very high end machine, where the cost of electronics is along the lines of 5-10% of the total build cost. I'm currently upgrading a 3 color mixing delta with a duet maestro (for a friend), again the cost of the electronics there is about 10% of the printer -- it's a $1000 machine with a diamond hotend with crap electronics, so the upgrade there makes sense. What you are suggesting is using duet boards, as awesome as they are on machines where the rest of the hardware doesn't warrant it. Your delta, yes absolutely, creality machines -- NO. Get a pi3 or a pi zerow with octoprint , and be done with it. There are plenty of videos on how to add a z-probe to existing electronics on the creality machines without sacrificing anything.
If your setup has a bundled Pi running octoprint, there is no reason not to run klipper. The only downside if that klipper isnt intuitive for a newbie. You really have to read the github docs that seems to be all over the place. But man... when its setup, updating configurations is a breeze and you can get some amazing speeds out of an old ATmega - 8 bit processor.
I’ve just upgraded my printer to an skr board, but it definitely would of been interesting to see this video before that
I have my existing Raspberry pi so basic creality board works fine for me and its budget. Moreover, with Octoprint, i can control more than the printer but camera, power and more.
Bigtreetech skr 1.3 looks good. Add some steppers, etc
SKR 1.3, 1.4, and 1.4 Turbo are also 32 bit boards, they are reliable and run Marlin 2 with pretty much all the same functionality for a fraction of the price. For around $50 you can buy the entire setup, board, touch screen, WiFi module, and TMC2209 drivers. I feel that to bias this review in Duet's favour he didn't even try to make a fair comparison. There's no shame in being compensated to promote Duet, unless you pretend its an unbiased opinion.
Another misleading point he makes is that duet is somehow an original, its open source and based on another open source Arduino controller, which they copied and integrated in their design. The board is good Quality, but I would absolutely not call it the best board you can buy, especially if considering value for money.
The duet clones are expensive. I have converted most of my printers to skr 1.3s (one with a skr pro 1.1 ). No issues
@@Phil-D83 you should mention firmware too, Marlin 2 ? Its free and well supported by the community and developers.
What about the LERDGE-K 3D Printer Controller Board I was thinking about trying one. I wanna do a 600 by 600 by 800 core xy copying the tronxy design using 3030 Just worried 2 Nema 17s will not be strong enough off of the same driver.
Lerdge is not open source, and your customization options are very limited.
@@DesignPrototypeTest I like your videos man thanks. I can rip models off of sketchfab if you want anything to print
What does the maestro use Ethernet for? Can you use it without it?
Yes, but you must use a screen in that case. Otherwise you would have no other way to control the printer. The 12864 screen that comes with the Ender 3 will work, but the Panel Due is better. When using the Maestro connected via Ethernet into your router you can use the Duet Webpage interface to control the printer. No screen is necessary in this instance. In my opinion the primary feature that makes the Duet board so outstanding is the webpage interface. I love opening the web browser and sending prints that way instead of walking back an forth across the house with an SD card. Also I can track print progress and change temperatures/speeds if need be. Watch this video where I showed all of this in action: th-cam.com/video/PpLEjwLZwBw/w-d-xo.html
@@DesignPrototypeTest thanks for the quick reply:)
Just a point of correction. I have the Artemis delta printer from SeeMeCNC running the Duet 2 Wifi and not only can I connect a Raspberry Pi and print but it will connect to my new Palette 2 Pro at the same time. They talk to each other using plugins on the Pi. With that said...excellent video!
Thank you for this comment. Will you educate me further? Do you have Octoprint running and sending prints to your Duet board? What is the interface between the Pallet 2 Pro and the Raspberry Pi? Does the Pallet talk to the Duet, or do both of them just talk to the Pi?
@@DesignPrototypeTest Initially before hooking up the Palette 2 I ran a test and used a standard Octoprint install in the Pi and connected it via USB cable to the Duet 2 Wifi and sent over a print job which worked fine. I did notice while the Pi is connected it disconnected the normal interface that comes up on the browser which comes back when the Pi is disconnected. With the Palette 2 I have a cable that runs from it to the Pi and another usb cable that runs from the Pi to the Duet 2 Wifi. A multicolor job is sent to the Pi which then controlls both the printer and the Palette 2. Rather ingenious way to produce 4 color or multimaterial prints with PLA. Mosaic supplies 2 plug-ins for the Pi that makes the magic happen.
@@Magic3DPrinting Thank you.
I have the raspberry pi 3 +Mks GenL with TMC2208 steppers running Klipper and Octoprint. I can't recommend it enough. Great setup.
Same setup here. Also TMCs connected via UART. Until Klipper will have active development I will stay with this.
I bought a raspberry pi 3 for $25 and use my stock board. Took about 15mins to install octoprint. Its so much better with octoprint no more microSD cards yay!!!
I was using a $5 raspberry pi zero w! 😂😂
Even better. I used the pi 3 So I can octolapse and view the printer over the network without delay. Also built in Wifi. I think the Duet is unnecessary and overkill to put a $200 board on a $300 printer...lol
@@cutty02 most people think so.. until they experience a Duet board first hand
Screw the features how well does it print. My prints already come out nearly perfect. Is that board going to add quality to my prints over my mks sbase?
@@cutty02 yes. 32 but boards increase processing power which means you can print the same or higher quality at higher speeds. More accurate curves and all movements that normally big down an 8 bit board and sometimes would cause a print to visibly lag while it waits for commands from the board. Especially on Delta's where the mathematics are much more complex. As well as being quiter vs 8 bit boards due to better motor driver control.
Been running octoprint with reprap for years with no issues... Using OrangePi Zero to run Octoprint. Whole system is about $10. Running knockoff $60 Duet boards with a couple of these printers; one is an Ender 3. You do need to install the correct plugins for reprap on the settings page.
will the Duet3d run on 24v hot end and build platform printers?
Yes. Just plug it into a 24v power supply. It automatically adjusts to the increased current.
@@DesignPrototypeTest awesome!
Dear Santa:
How accurate is this information still??? Like if i had an Ender 3 v2 (32bit board) with a Rasberry Pi 4GB (Octaprint) wouldnt it be more powerful/capable then a Duet3d board???? OR can you Run a Duet3d board WITH a raspberry pi running Octaprint?
Fairly accurate, but it needs to be updated. There is a new Duet 3 Mini board which should be bought instead of the Maestro.
@@DesignPrototypeTest What about the Duet 3 being able to hook up with a raspberry pi??? Does it do the same thing as ender 3 with raspberry pi?
@@bitrage. The complete answer: duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Firmware_Overview#Section_Printing_over_USB_connection_Octoprint_Cura_Simplify3D_Etc
The SKR Mini E3 with TMC2209 $45 may not have Wifi but an added BIQU TFT35 3.5in V3.0 $35 Touchscreen has a Wifi Socket $10 for the wifi board. Blows them out of the water. Super quiet and is plug and play on any 3d printer.
Ok. It's inexpensive, But what can you do with that WiFi socket? Marlin has no WiFi functionality. I doubt the TFT is running Octoprint. It's always some proprietary Chinese interface that is not open source. Can you even upload a g-code file to that screen? You certainly can't manipulate your firmware build wirelessly like you can do with the Duet. So your printer can be called "WiFi" but it is completely non functional because of software.
@@DesignPrototypeTest actually the TFT35 can handle printing remotely through an app on a phone, upload prints and control printer functions. It has a 32bit onboard processor and has micro SD and usb connection. Everything is controlled through the touchscreen not through the marlin on the skr. And additional 2x UART connections. Also runout detection and remote power on/off. And yes it is open source through bigtreetech.
>...on a phone...
Right, because everyone is always slicing their 3D prints on their phone. That incredibly inconvenient. You make/download the geometry on you PC/Mac. Then you slice it on your PC/Mac, then you somehow upload it to your phone, wait for it to upload. Then you upload it to your printer, wait for it to upload, then you can press print on your phone? Or do you have to initiate the print from the SKS screen? What's the point of having a TFT screen if you are using your phone to control the printer? This process sounds like it is is anything but polished and pleasant to use for the user.
@@DesignPrototypeTest one you can't slice on octoprint either. It's the same process. You upload to Octoprint to print on your printer. If you have pre-sliced files they can just be uploaded and still monitor on a wifi cam on Astroprint or any other compatible app. It has the same functionality as octoprint. And is cheaper! PS if i have my laptop with me anywhere in the world i can just direct upload to the tft which turns on the printer prints and auto shutoff and also monitors filament runout.. Same as if you where using a octoprint.
Duet has cool features. From what I get it seems the main advantages of Duet are print speed, wifi, and easy config UI. The last one is knowledge, the rest is hardware.
However I still don't get why use Duet nowadays when Klipper should give the speed of Duet (I didn't benchmark), and OctoPrint has pretty much all Duet features plus allows remote monitoring (to avoid fumes) and TheSpaghettiDetective to detect spaghetti prints early automatically and stop the print early. It's also half the price (you usually have already a Marlin board shipped with your printer). Nothing against Duet, just wishing we could choose Marlin / Duet / RPi+Wrecklabs at buy time. Do you see any other advantages of Duet boards?
The Duet board and RRF were developed in tandem. A complete software/hardware solution made by the same team. That's why it is so tremendously functional, and rock solidly reliable. What you are asking is like saying My Lamborghini is cool, but I think I should put an Chevy LS crate motor into it. "B is For Build" did that. It didn't turn out so great did it? See, every step of the way has countless details that you need to get right. Nobody get's them right the first time. It's a ton of work to design, prototype test, repeat until you have a fully functional engineered solution. Are you going to go through 10 versions of your build? Duet has gotten all the details right for you. They are on like version 100. I guarantee that doing the hodgepodge you suggested will result in a less functional printer than if you had just ponied up for the Duet to begin with. If you like frustration, or if you want to do the hours and hours of work because you want to understand every minutia of your firmware build, by all means go for it. I'll bet you good money my printer with the Duet will still be better when you are done. AND mine will be less expensive when we factor in time spent as an expense.
A couple of details, my maestro works fine with my cr-10s screen, the notches on the screen connectors are reversed, so you have to invert the housing of the screen connector or cut the tab of the cables to plug them the other way around.
The servo pin in the maestro is not necessary for a bltouch, you have another header for Z probes.
Personally I wouldn't do it, but you can use a duet connected to octoprint, making the duet just a dumb driver, I don't think there are many reasons to do it.
After many many many years of using Ramps and marlin, i am also think of doing the switch from Ramps to Duet and Reprap firmware. it really does do it all!
Raspberry PI + Ramps + Arduino ... may still be the biggest bang for buck.
@@KrustyKlownBang for bucks yes, however, Reprap firmware does not run on ramps! hens why the switch to the duet is looking more likely. if you just want a 3d printer Marlin is more then capable, but if your building a all in one machine, ( printer, CNC, PCB milling, laser,) there are a lot of CAM g-codes and M-codes are not found in Marlin but they are in Reprap firmware.
@@patprop74 OK, great information, thanks for explaining those advantages.
Klipper reigns supreme! It'd be hard to go back to marlin lol
klipper really is the best option
Pi3 and newer is 64bit processor, raspbian just still uses a 32bit kernel at the moment but is user updatable by those who know where their towel is.
What about the other 32bit options...lerdge and smoothie board?
Development has halted on Smoothie, and in my experience nothing about it is superior to Duet. Lerdge is closed source and difficult to customize/upgrade.
Besides wifi to printer 8 bit board is also simpke sollution esp wifimodule for just 6-8 $ and you got even very simillar look to duet
Check PyCNC which the outputs of RPI can direct run RAMS board...neat video
hmm. Well the MKS équivalent of the duet should be the MKS Robin : 32 bits with built in wifi. I got one for a year and it works great for under 40 bucks. You also have the MKS Sbase, 32 bits under smoothieware but with DRV8825 drivers inside, at a reasonable price too.
I thought there were issues with the MKS robin. isn't it proprietary?
It is, as is everything from MKS, proprietary and the shank in your ribs is that they derived their stuff from open source hardware/firmware. When we brought up the fact that they are closed source using open source (over on the reprap forum) they said they didn't want their work stolen. Basically they don't want to happen to them what they themselves did AND previous versions of the sbase had some really bad issues that people in the reprap community solved for them. If it were me I would pay more for a completely open source product so fixes are always happening when, or if, needed.
@@cutty02 I was one of the firsts western MKS boards owners back in time. According to the price tag, people (hoaxed by western manufacurers lobbies) pretended the quality was the lowest, and the boards will burn your house within hours. Surprizingly the MKS boards owners did not had the same feedback. The low coper PCB and the overall built quality revealed to be pretty descent. Since, the rare (according to the huge production that folowed) issues was mostly because of the use of low gauge wiring by entry level 3d printer manufacturers. Despite the bashing, like your comment, MKS became a giant board manufacturer, and actually their boards represents often the best value for money. I own several MKS boards 8 and 32 bits with no noticeable issues. At the fablab I repair a bunch of 3D printers kits per year, and when I discover a MKS board inside it's usually not to blame.
Yes, the Robin is proprietary, and I will tell later about this. But that makes absolutely no difference for the user. Robin is a good board and a good firmware, probably the best from MKS yet. This is fast and easy to setup. Actually, I see no reason to boycot the Robin, except bad-faith ethics.
@@thebeststooge There's a lot of myths here. First, as you should know, the MKS members was early active members of the reprap community in China. The first MKS board was the Gen, developed in response of the 5USD Ramps which was the worst quality ever, with a huge number of issues from catchin fire to miss of components ! MKS proposed a decent quality All in One board for less than the price of arduino and Ramps clone bundle, with a bonus second built in extruder. The western Ramps manufacturers started to sweet because the board was better than theirs at an unbeatable price, and a strong bashing starts. They claimed the board was not open source (obviously it was : all the sources was on Github, PCB and so, no repeating of what's already in the arduino and ramps which are documented enough yet). Then MKS produced a working version of the overpriced Smoothieboard for its real value price : the MKS Sbase (with sources still available on Github). Things gone even worst. See historic on Reprap's wiki : Arthur Wolf the developer of Smoothieware deleting systematically and arbitrary any information about MKS. No surprise as he was one of the early bashers. As an user, i feel very uncomfortable about that, because you cannot hijack the information because of commercial purpose, pretending about ethics. The Robin is not copyright for commercial purpose, this is in response of the stupid harassment of a bunch of self-proclamed guardians. Those people forget the Reprap movement stolen everything from Stratasys when the copyright of fdm technology falled into the public domain. And now they don't want their open source used ? This is pittyfull. I have another idea of copyleft which allows anyone to push it one step further, and offering boards at real value price is one of the improvements for the final user.
Last argument, but not least : Prusa's printers are not open source since the MK2. Yep, there's no BOM and the magnetic bed sources are not published. Was Jo Prusa bashed or banished from the Reprap's wiki for heretismus ? Not at all ! Jo is not alone : what about Ultimaker ? A lot started opensource then turned copyright to sustain the growth. Who am I to juge ? Actually who cares about open source for boards ? How many people will spend more money to build their own than to buy one ? Probably none. People wants quality boards at reasonable price. So they may consider MKS's.
The reprap movement was great but it is dying slowly : as reprapstuff became businesses. Yes this is no open source funding any more, for most of the projects. The thrill is gone.
Well, when you take something from open hardware source then close it the reprap people consider you scummy to say the least. Prusa uses RAMBO now so I think that is closed source so he had to go close source on that but I no longer own any of his printers so I do not know.
So instead of a standalone 3d printer, you pay extra to dedicate a whole computer to running your printer? All to save plugging in a Micro SD card?
I use a SDcard extender to place the SD card next to the control panel - $2 each to improve usability.
Since I have 3 different 3d printers, does that mean I can only use 1 at a time with octoprint?
I can understand replacing boards for quality issues, but most of what you mention as benefits (wifi, octaprint etc ) are useless for most people.
Most people will only print in one color using PLA. They will download the geometry from Thingiverse, or similar, and the stock Ender 3 will serve them just fine. So, you are correct the benefits I talked about are not needed by most people. Then again, most people only need a 2nd hand Toyota Camry but we all want a Tesla or a BMW don't we? Anyone who wants to upgrade their printer with features such as auto bed leveling, a high temperature hotend with Thermocouple, Sending prints through the network instead of an SD card, etc. will find it MUCH easier to do these things on the Duet. The fact that the Duet is the superior hardware is an added bonus.
You don't have to dedicate a computer to your printer. Since it's controlled through a web interface, you can run in from any device on your network. You could mount an old cell phone and use that. If you have multiple printers, just make browser short cuts to each
Youre just saying the marlin things suck but the dont.
But can you use the mellow fly E3 or E3-pro because those are a bit less expensive and the have rrf so its like a duet but better because its a drop in replacement for a ender 3
ESP32, microSD, a pair of level converters, and a RAMPS board. $30, WiFi printing.
Ok. Can you monitor and change temperature fan speed etc on the fly while printing? Can you do it through a clean interface in your web browser? Can you upload another print to the board while still in the middle of your print? Can you close down that connection and open a new connection to the printer with your cellphone where you can also do all these things? Can you modify firmware settings easily from your cellphone? Can you make custom buttons that have your printer do complex series of movements/commands?
@@DesignPrototypeTest Yes, about as well as you could on a $30,000 Haas CNC display, except you don't have to walk over to a display. The ESP32 presents a web for uploading jobs, queuing jobs, displaying stats, and a g-code web console interface. What you now do from the LCD display, you could be doing from your phone. At the grocery store. You can add an LCD to the ESP32, but why bother? It's easier to do the same things with a Pi, but an ESP32 does it well, cheaper, and in real time. There are several projects on Github for ESP32 and RAMPS boards if you're curious. I grabbed an early one and added the features I wanted. The beauty of Open Source...
I was comparing it to the Duet Wifi with also does all these things. From your description I wouldn't be surprised if the Duet WiFi used this same module. It also sounds like a lot of work. I think I'll wait until some has more thoroughly developed this hardware/software before I abandon the Duet. From yours and other's comments it appears that Duet will face some stiff competition in the coming years.
@@DesignPrototypeTest I don't blame you. Nothing about this technology is ready for Home Depot yet.
@@Giblet535 "Yes, about as well as you could on a $30,000 Haas CNC display, except you don't have to walk over to a display." I was thinking the same thing.
Raspberry pi 3 runs 64 bit arm btw. Your 2nd duet board does not jave wifi so that 20 price differance is not taking into account loseing wifi. So the mks board + pi is the clear winner unless you want to run a Delta or you are hopeless at useing the find all function on your text editor. I know you love these duet boards and other western parts but please try just a bit harder to be a bit less bias.
Where's the bias? A select few of you keep accusing me of this. The idiot-proof design of the Duet boards running seamlessly integrated firmware on a 32 bit processor make the Duet boards superior. The firmware is so much easier to use and modify it's unreal. It's not even a comparison. If it weren't for the fact that Marlin is the mature industry standard we wouldn't even be having this discussion. I really believe Duet is the future. 95% of users couldn't modify a Marlin build successfully if their life depended on it. That is why there are so many videos teaching how to do it, but in the end all these users just get a pre-made version of the firmware and upload it to their printer. Go watch my older videos when I actually used Marlin. I am capable of getting it to work, but I choose not to because I don't like to be frustrated time and time again. Regular users shouldn't be mucking about with the underlying source code of the firmware. Macros are the future.
Regarding $20 more for the Maestro but you lose the WiFi so it can't be compared: You can still network into the printer, it just has to be connected with a CAT5 cable. If you remove the WiFi capability (disconnect the Pi) from the 8bit boards you are reduced to the SD card, or a direct USB connection to a computer. If you shut off or disconnect the computer the print is lost.
Rewatch the first few minutes of your video. You immediatly start to trash marlin and gloss over what the pi and octoprint actully bring to the table. It is much later in the video that you mention any short comings of the deut offerings. Give honest pros and cons of each up front. Give each a fair shake in the video. Not spend the vast majority of the video on only one side of the completion, or change the name of the vieo to why you should use a duet board. Actully comparing some of the other 32 bit options wouod be nice as well.
Those deut boards my be awesome but they are also expensive. Not the most viable option for people with very cheap printers like the ender 3. That expenss is also all in one shoot. The other option alows a person with a budget to piece together a part at a time to expend/improve capabilities. Both marlin and octoprint have solid premade set uos availible for those unwilling/unable to both with editing the firmware. That is the bonus to marlin being so widely availible. Eventually riprap may get common enough for the same to be said about it, but the fact is at this point it is not.
To answer the lan side, a cord is a cord is a cord it is still not wireless and that does need to be factored in.
@@galihad1980 octoprint is kinda trash though. its unreliable and actually makes your printer even slower with more artifacts than printing from sd card... i could see an argument for pi & ramps using klipper would be the best cheap option but it isnt the easiest upgrade to do. the extra money for a duet is honestly worth it over a marlin + octoprint build. i've used marlin on 8 bit and marlin 2 on 32 bit, smoothieboards, and duets. the duets are the best. hands down. easiest to customize, hardest to break, Amazing UI, fastest file uploading.
It does depend on what people are trying to do though. A lot of people don't have the money. However I would say it is better to save up than to spend money now on an "upgrade". the difference between 60 dollars an 160 isnt that much if you save for 3 to 6 month. if you cant save 30 to 15 dollars a month, then buying a printer is honestly a horrible decision and you should find a cheaper hobby, look into contracting out 3d printers, or see if your local library or university will let you use theirs. owning a printer is expensive. having an unreliable printer is not only more expensive, its also dangerous.
MKS boards are total trash ... bad quality
@@DesignPrototypeTest Marlin is a PITA. I just bought an Anet A8+. I wasn't happy with the extruder so I ordered a Titan Aero. Of course you can't use it until you update the firmware. Since this is a fairly new version of the printer, there is no documentation or tutorials on it. I googled and fiddled, and googled and fiddled only to get errors while compiling in Arduino. I bricked the board twice before I quit. Install the Duet, set the configuration, and I'm up and running.
I'm constantly amazed with the design of all of (or most of, haven't looked at all of the schematics yet) these boards that you are one cheap fet away from burning your house down. Any board that feeds the 12v or 24v directly to the hot end heater or the bed heater and switches it on and off with a fet to ground, has no way of stopping it if the fet shorts (which they do). I have fixed several boards now from branded and non-branded printers with shorted high current fets in these spots. Had the owners not been there at the time, results would have been tragic.
The designs should have at least a high end as well as a low end switch as just relying on one fet and software is useless in this case.
Man thank you for letting me know off Klipper
what about this board BTT SKR V1.4 BOARD which have everything duet have
I dont' see a WiFi module on that board and it does not have the ability to run Reprap Firmware with is superior to Marlin.
Design Prototype Test yes there is wifi option for 7 $ more so it’s 29 $ on eBay
@@nato3706 okay. The question then becomes how you use the Wi-Fi module. As far as I'm aware Marlin does not have Wi-Fi functionality. Octoprint requires a raspberry pie. So you've paid $7 to have a useless piece of hardware attached to your board.
@@DesignPrototypeTest i see what you mean i will buy it its cheap and try it and will let you know :) the duet its too expensive , another question if the predetor have its own 32 bit board why cant we flash it to have marlin ? and just add rasp pi on it ? to have octoprint and to change firmware like temp limit
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SKR 1.4 boards is compatible with reprap !
what about the mks that does RabRab as well and cheaper just asking as I am new to the hobby
As far as my knowledge goes, the only option for RRF besides a Duet board is a RADDS board + Arduino Due. I think you are talking about the MKS SBase running Smoothieware. On that subject I will paste my reply that I made to another comment yesterday: After wasting like 100 hours of my life on my MKS Sbase project. I will never touch that board again. It's Chinese junk. If you want to know more about my experience with that board. Here is that point in the video when I gave up on the MKS Sbase board: th-cam.com/video/asSLjLGlSrw/w-d-xo.html
EDIT: I was unaware that you can run RRF on the MKS Sbase board dot_bob commented down a few hours informing me of this fact, but I did not see his comment until after I responded to yours. I might have to give the Sbase board another chance.
StealthChop2 works flawlessly IMO.... running it on 2 printers with zero issues right now.... the original StealthChop on the 2100,2130s have issues with skipping
Where did you set the threshold to fallback to spread cycle? Mine is at 110mm/s, works well enough that I'm considering upping it to 140mm/s for silent fast moves.
@@tistione running them in legacy mode, no uart. i was just running 80mm/s on an ender 3 with not 1 missed step.
im actually wiring up my corexy now... built that one for speed and accuracy. plan to print around 100mm/s.... I have another corexy im designing/building now and theyll both have duets so i wont really be able to test the stealth chop at higher speeds which is a bit disappointing
A lot of very good information here but also some very bad misinformation fed by your bias in favor of the Duet family and unmodified RepRap firmware. It's a bit incongruous to say that the Raspberry Pi is more powerful than the Pi Zero workout specifying which hardware revision of each. RepRap firmware is far from limited to running on Duets and has many features which are unavailable on that hardware; it also lacks just as many stable features available on Marlin as vice versa. Marlin, despite your rhetoric, is not in any way limited to 8 bit control boards and has been as stable in 32-bit as RepRap for a considerable period of time, for what that's worth with either firmware. The RAMPS 1.4 (most popular revision) interface board was originally developed for RepRap but now works with at least four major firmwares, as I recall. It was also developed for 8 or 16 bit controllers, true, but works just as well with 32 bit controllers (different pin mappings cause a few incompatibilities, but the remaining features see significant improvement in effectivity). Klipper is designed to run on Raspberry Pi but the developer has publicly expressed interest in having it run on controller boards and has successfully tested it that way on at least one 32-bit board. He has also successfully run it on a Pi to control 32-bit boards the same way as is done for 8-bit boards. Those tests are both from over a year ago.
Thank you very much for sharing your acquired information and your opinions, and please don't be too offended by my choice to correct a few details.
MKS gen L +4 2208 55€
Duet wifi 229€
At 4 times the price it better be a lot better
Duet 2 wifi cloned - 49 €. Works great.
Go figure.
@@ZhuJo99 Where have you found that deal ?!
This video is misleading. I was looking for an in depth analysis as suggested by the title and you basically just gave an opinion. A 32 bit micro is faster, but if it's running additional code for the fancy functions you are wasting those resources and you don't necessarily get a better basic 3D printer control ( Ethernet communication can take a lot of run time).
This is just the surface of the differences: basically prices, main specs and your opinion. I would have liked to hear why running a Duet board makes your prints better, other than you need 32 bits for a Delta (which is known, but if the MCU only runs the basic 3D printer control btw).
Another topic not thoroughly discussed is the ability to upgrade drivers. That's often overlooked, and believe me, I know the cost of that thanks to the Smoothieboard V1.0 that I bought some time ago that has a 32 bit MCU but it's also obsolete because drivers are soldered on.
I haven't looked into the differences between Reprap and Marlin and would have liked to hear more than "Reprap is better"
I like your videos and as an opinion this would be ok, but I think it's dangerous to mislead people that don't know about SW or electronics, because they will think they "need" a duet for their printer to print better, but there's no evidence of that (at least on this video).
Any response on this? I was just thinking the same thing, does this give you better prints? I recently fried one of the drivers on my stock printer and need a new board as it is built in to the board. All of these expand-ability options are null and void if all you're doing is using a 3d printer, is that right?
@@Theycallmeernie88 Not really. After doing my own research, I did ended up buying the Duet Maestro. Here's my reasoning to go that route:
Firmware - You have basically 3 options: RepRapFirmware, Marlin or Smoothieware
Marlin has been around for a long time its what most 8 bit printers run, but trying to cover all possible HW configs is challenging and I think is starting to become too convoluted. Marlin 2.0 should address some of that but it hasn't been out long enough to have enough evidence that it works well
Smoothieware started as a good idea and has some good features, but a toxic dev environment seems to be holding it back to achieve it's potential
RepRapFirmware seems to be actively developed and having only a few HW variants to care about makes it easier to maintain. The developer is very involved and seems to care about issues and very supportive
None of this is an objective evaluation, for that I would have to have the 3 boards and time to benchmark firmware performance (which I don't). I plan on analyzing RRF performance once I have my board (% of CPU utilization or something like that)
HW - There's several options here, but the lack of simple solutions is what turned me away from Marlin 2.0
Re-arm 3 level sandwich (board, ramps, drivers) seems complicated and will not fit on my Ender 5 enclosure. I like the modularity but I feel they should have integrated ramps with the processing board to make a compact solution that only needs additional drivers
The Azteeg X5 Mini is a cool board and has exchangeable drivers, wifi and it's $113 with drivers, the issue is that it runs smoothieware, which I don't consider the best firmware at the moment due to the reasons mentioned above
Duet 2 Wifi great board but it's over engineered for 3d printing and has older generation drivers (does not support stealth chop 2)
The Duet 2 Maestro has the newest drivers with stealth chop 2, Ethernet port and 32 bit arm core, although that M4 doesn't have an FPU, it should be more than enough... but I can only confirm that once I have it and have a chance to test it
To be honest, I don't think there's a perfect solution out there currently, but I think the Maestro is the one that comes ahead, even if it's by a little bit (in my opinion and based on the things I value the most: Realiability, Expandibility, Quiet Drivers and good firmware).
@@RaymundoMagana hey I really appreciate your findings on this. Thank you and best of luck to you!
"Ethernet communication can take a lot of run time." BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. No. No, there is no way that a direct wire connection slamming 1Gb per second is going to have any trouble saturating the working RAM on an ARM SOC. It takes longer for an RPi to write a print job to the SD card than it does for a job to get from my PC to the RPi. If the Arduino and ARM processor are on different boards (RPi-to-RAMPS), then you have a bit of latency during execution, but not enough for the Atmega hamster wheel to notice. The RPi will keep the Arduino RAM full just fine. Most modern 32-bit SOCs are violently overpowered for feeding jobs from an SD card to a subprocessor. And they won't struggle running a web interface, unless they are an RPi0.
@@chooseymomschoose Have you implemented a full Ethernet stack on an ARM core? I have (10 years as auto industry embedded SW engineer) and I can tell you that the Ethernet stack takes a considerable amount of runtime, not just RAM (which BTW I didn't even mention if you read carefully :) ). You seem to be talking about something else entirely, the speed of the connection and what part in the architecture would be the bottleneck. Just in case I wasn't clear. My concern was (when I wrote that comment) that upgrading to a 32 bit ARM core would be seen as the magic bullet to alleviate the processing bottleneck on the arduino based boards without carefully considering what features to add so that you don't end up with the same bottlenecking problem from adding to many new features to the new MCU.
This video provides no technical details about why an ARM 32bit MCU is better, it simply states an opinion "Duet boards are better because they are newer". Since reading that comment I've done extensive research on the Duet boards and I believe they are the best solution at the moment. It seems that they have a dedicated Ethernet transceiver that would take care of all the protocol implementation which would free the main 32bit ARM core for only the printer functionality, which is why that board would be better (If my understanding of this Ethernet transceiver is correct). If the stack implementation is done on the ARM core, my initial concern would still be valid.
Unfortunately, I haven't seen any metrics on core % utilization in the industry in general, so my comments are really just an educated guess from my experience in developing embedded SW on similar platforms.
this board is very nice but way too expenisive for me. It costs the same as the ender does the upgrade realy worth it ?
I'm not satisfied with the way these printers come from China. I want to upgrade them and give them more functionality such as bed leveling, better part cooling, sending prints to them without physically having to exchange an SD card, etc. If all you want to do is download some files from thingiverse and print them from PLA the stock setup on your printer will probably work just fine for you. If you are someone who likes to tinker and upgrade electronics, then yes, the expensive price really is worth it. The board/firmware is like 66% of a 3D printer, but it is kind of invisible and therefore doesn't help sell printers. This is why Creality goes with the absolute lowest cost crappiest board that they can get away with putting on their printers. In the grand scheme of things $175 isn't that much money. I've had telephone bills which were larger than that.
You can get filament runout AND a BL Touch running on the stock board. Also, there are cheaper boards and stepper drivers than the Duet. It's way too over priced to be considered when it costs as much as the printer. You might as well buy a Prusa if you're thinking of a duet.
DUET WiFi+Ender 3+BLTouch+Filament Runout Sensor=~$450 Prusa Mk3 Kit=$750 That's a 40% increase in price. "You might as well buy a Prusa" is a silly thing to say.
@@DesignPrototypeTest Thank you for your answer :) Yeah sure but the Prusa have a lot more features but i am thinking i am going for a duet i have issues with my bl touch on my Ender 3 BTW realy good Video and have a nice Day :)
The very best content on you tube. Knowledge is power. You share it better than anyone.
Thank you.
I thought the biggest limitation of the 8-bit boards is the memory/storage???
Thank you, Matthew Croft
BTW octoprint - is used with Klipper.
According to the duetwifi creator. They designed and tested the duet maestro, not m3d. M3d just had the produced in China and sells them.
th-cam.com/video/snBZX9P4RBw/w-d-xo.html around 13:45 on this video you'll see.
Another source. reprap.org/forum/read.php?416,819973 at least give duet the credit they deserve for designing the board.
The quality of this content is so high; no fluff, no bullshit, just the important things. Well organized. Thank you :)
You are welcome.
Re: OctoPrint + Maestro - you can always use a Pi as a proxy to share the wifi onto the Pi's ethernet port, basically turning the Maestro into a MaestroWifi
The only bummer experience I had w/ my Maestro is that it came from M3D totally used - it had someone else's macros built into it, existing network config, no original box (just wrapped the board in bubble wrap), etc. It still worked totally fine, but it wasn't discounted or anything - just full price, used (without warning)
They test them out prior to shipping I believe. Mine came the same way. I had no issues reconfiguring it to work on my Ender 3. Set up my own macros based on the ones that were there, seemed helpful to me.
Mine came from the German distributor the same way - the scripts on the card are factory test scripts.