The new Duet 3 electronics ecosystem!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 พ.ค. 2024
- This is the new Duet 3 ecosystem - and each bit is as crazy as the next! We cover everything from the 6-axis mainboard over the daisy-chainable expansions modules to the tool boards that handle an entire extruder and hotend without taxing the mainboard.
Thank you to Duet3D for sponsoring my trip to TCT 2019! Learn more about Duet3D and the Duet 3: www.duet3d.com/duet3
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i think they misrepresent themselves in saying that they're expensive. not at all. no other board has such powerful stepper drivers (never mind the VAST featureset), and those that can be equipped with the same drivers cost easily as much once you factor in their cost.
and if one goes that route, you generally also need external mosfets, and you're STILL lacking all the other features DUET offers. nothing compares. bravo!
I think they are afraid that people will compare the price of a cheap RAMPS clone to the Duet. I was one of those people for quite a while, until I understood the value of having electronics that don't melt or catch fire.
I fully agree, i had several ramps boards before i changed to duet. After the inital setup of the duet you will never go back. Both the software and the hardware are top notch. Its fully worth the money and i love the simple way of doing any kind of changes.
@@schleusser The duet is nice, I use the Duet2 and a SKR1.3, but for building my next machine, the SKR does everything I need, along with the drivers I want for a lot less money. They are good board, but they are not inexpensive.
I don't think they promote being expensive at all. Their close integration of software/hardware is unmatched. Also, the fact that dc42 is lurking in the forum is just absurd. It's amazing he does that...He's the lead dev!
It's not just the power and expansion possibilities though. It's also how absurdly hard they are to break.
AND, critically how amazing the support is. I've personally had multiple interactions with David on the forums where he's set me straight.
Just imagine how much work and engineering has gone in to this system. Impressive.
Awesome interview Tom. Duet really do take open source seriously, right down to the software tools they use, outstanding. Thanks to Duet for enabling you to do all this for us
I loved how I could just open the Duet 1 in KiCAD and spot a small mistake in it, haven't had that experience with anything else and that's really cool. Small change but how often does that happen?
After years of communicating from behind the keyboard its good to see the faces of Dave and Tony. Those are 2 very ambitious and dedicated individuals. It will be interesting to see what the next several years bring. I plan to retro my old Haas VMC control with a Duet once the encoder support is implemented.
1. Up to 30 stepper motors (6 board and 24 expanded) at 6.3A peak.
2. Applications for developing new apps for the controller without embedded firmware knowledge
3. Duet 2 will still be sold and maintained
4. On-the-fly configuration changes even while printing live...? Sounds complicated but nice to have.
5. Support for tool changing
6. Expansion boards for a wide range of applications
7. Better delta printer and CNC support?
8. Definitely a little more expensive. Still completely open sourced.
Pretty impressive.
4. On-the-fly configuration changes even while printing live...? Sounds complicated but nice to have.
isn't a new one (duetwifi has had it) & is really handy. cause all the configuration stuff is done with gcode so you just can test out your acceleration settings without needing to set it up in slicer. its wayyy simpler. the best use ive found for it is to tune your retractions cause that means you can do all sorts of tests during a test print without re-slicing the file.
The only thing Duet is missing is up-gradable stepper drivers.
@@wickedcoyote271 ya there is an appeal for that but the soldered method does dissipate heat a lot better. it also has the breakout pins so you could definitely attach other drivers.
For some reason Duet’s website disagrees with the video. For example instead of 6A it says 4A peak for the drivers. I wonder which is correct.
@@ualdayan my guess would be in the video they said "tested up to 6A" but they say 4A to be on the conservative side. Duet likes to make suggestions that will always work. I'm sure you could do 6A with proper active cooling but they aren't gonna suggest on the website cause someone could burn up the on board drivers if it wasnt done right.
Great news! Thanks for taking us along
ohhhh on the topic of clones while i and some other railcore guys were talking.... We discussed the clones a little... And we all came to the conclusion, yeah there are clones of the Duet2 out there and the thing is... While theyre cheaper theyre only a really tiny bit cheaper. So for the (literally few quid) youre getting a board that will be guaranteed to work and be get the full support for. And not to mention youll be supporting the company that has brought us these utterly amazing bits of kit... So again amazing work guys
ya i like to think china hasnt made a cheap duet because it wouldnt be the duet design if it was worse quality. those boards are reliable, advanced, and REALLY hard to break.
Duet 2 Maestro is 90 quid plus shipping, 110+ total.
Chinese clone is about 60, sooooo..... 45% cheaper. I use frigging RAMPS, so I literally cannot afford to upgrade to genuine one. Doh.
I have 2 Duet 2 WIfi Boards
One for my Cetus MK II mod and one for a CNC. Both work very well and every problem you may face while building up a 3d printer they have already solved it for sure. And keep in mind that they deliver all needed connectors with the board you don't have to search for them extra.
Good to see you at the show and it's fantastic that a fully open source tool chain is used - even RAMPS is not as open in that respect.
Great video Tom! Both asking the right questions, but also Duet and how things all work together. For someone interested in building a custom CNC for wood, this is really interesting :)
They are fantastic! I have 2 Duet 2's and they work flawless. Can't wait to get my hands on a Duet 3!
And it's going to "just work". Love it. Great video, I realize that it's a few years old, but when this video was first made, I was putting to together my own home built Jubilee tool changer. I have that built with a Duet2 WiFi and the Duex5. It's actually a long version with a 600mm Z axis that I eventually installed into a modified server rack for stability. I really like the Duet boards, and their support online is just outstanding. I have yet to have an issue that I could not quickly resolve with their online support and forums.
Saw you on the floor yesterday! Loving the videos. Had a lot of fun at TCT
Thank you Duet Team 💝💝💝
I also interviewed Tony and Ian yesterday, cant believe I missed you, would have been great to say hello! Awesome interview as always
I am totally getting one for my next 3d printer build! So stoked!
The audio quality in this was great - good work
Definitely the board I'll go with when I finally start building my own printer at some point. Dunno if v2 or v3 yet… I'll decide that when it's time. Love what those guys are doing!
They make excellent boards with great customer support. I used a Duet 2 Ethernet on my printer and am very happy with it.
Love my Maestro!!! Building a new printer with a Duet2..... Love the Quality!
1:43 - 1:44 .....that face after "24 stepper motors" xD
Love the DUET :D
This looks very interesting. I may pick one up for my future Hypercube Evo build.
I'm still using one of the earlier v1.6's in both my printers with the paneldue and it z probe and they've never skipped a beat! The only down side to the older versions is the lack of WiFi (Ethernet only) but they're great boards even in 2019. 🙂
Great interview Tom.
Brilliant. Time for a Duet 3 !
yeah love it. you went soft with that interview tom lol
My old diy printer from 5-6 years ago with the first duet board v0.65 is still more silent than my prusa mk3 in stealth mode. When I started using my mk3 for the first time I was shocked, because I had forgotten how noisy printers can be.
They are doing it right, and I'll support them as much as I can.
Very cool ideas that duet are bringing out. I bought a duet for a printer im building as well, would love to see you make a video of converting/building a printer with duet hardware!
I have to say, that's probably the best response I've seen to the subject of clones. (Admittedly, I'm not out looking for opinions from manufacturers on clones.) If it's a closed, proprietary whatsadoodle, cloning is something to get angry about. If you're starting out by throwing all your designs and code into the void with a permissive license, you already told people all over the world to clone away. Though it'd be nice if cloners would at least make an effort to make it clear that whoever they're cloning won't be able to help if some resistor on the board starts emitting light, instead of relying on customers to know that already, or if most cloners respected trademarks, or if... Er, gripes for another time.
sehr spannend ! danke für das Video. Bin gespannt wo man das 3er Board in fertigen produkten finden wird.
Looks like the Hermes toolchanger locator is now using a printed base with semispheres, similar to what I mocked up a year back but made better because better tools! Looking forward to seeing how this progresses.
I love how Dave is just standing there in the background.... As if hes some one unimportant :D Again it was great to meet dave and indeed the duet 3 is damn damn damn impressive... Also i hope Thomas doesnt mind me saying this............. Hes shorter than i thought he was :p His videos make him look tall :D
I thought the same thing.
I just keep interviewing tall people 😉
Who is Dave?
@@brunogoncalvesbasto David Crocker, dc42 on the Duet3d forum, the man behind RepRapFirmware.
Wow! Thanks
I've been talking about using Can bus and power on seperate boards. (i.e. Hotend/tool, motor etc.) But procrastinated on it so much, someone else done did it...
also shoutout to duet3d for their amazing product support!
oobligah I concur 😂
Nice, I'm happy they are supporting higher current steppers than 2A.
Just ordered one!
i must upgrade my duet 0.6, still rocking the first duet out.....
I look forward to taking a look at an even playing with the new board. I have a duet Maestro which I purchased from m3d. The problem that I have is that when I stopped using the board when I bought my new printer. About this time in the newer versions of their firmware they were beginning to cancel out older versions of G-Code I'm completely rewrite it into their own. That is to say that you can't just simply use g code that you already know you have to know duet G-Code. And the complexity of this new code they were riding and how bizarre some of the coating actually was was what threw me off. Their choices in that code structure made it more difficult to learn than they understand than they care to know. And it's the differences in this coding structure which separates now duet from the entire industry.
Other concerns I had was that the web interface did not show temp per driver. I hope with the new 6A capable drivers, we can see temps, not just a message after the fact like a check engine light...
I find the comment about talking back to the slicer interesting. Slicers are very one way.
When I was more active on the forums, there was also constant opinion that the duet web interface is infallible, that no one should need use the slicer supplied controllers. I argue I use both. I also ONLY switch to hardware based printing after I have a file sliced and printing exactly as needed. To much stop start and wait for file transfers otherwise.
6:18
Love me that nerd humor
This I going to make my chrismas list.
I have duet ethernet, love it. These guys know what they are doing
im sold
I love my duet wifi. I have been waiting for the duet 3 before i build my next corexy.
How many steppers do we need for a core xy ?
@@cosminnci 2 for x and y, 1 or 2 for z and 1 or more for extruder
@@cosminnci well actually i want to build it in the pattern of a "railcore 2" with 3 independant z axis allowing for fully automatic bed tramming. There are mods the accomplish tripple z leveling for the blv cube that i am looking hard at.
Can't wait for duet3 -- I've expanded my duet2 to the brink of capability with tweaked firmware -- 14 stepper streams (thanks to dc42 for his help for tweaking the firmware to add 2 additional stepper streams) then my custom electronics to take it to 16 steppers -- duet 3 will let me run 16 steppers native. Already have a PI controlling power for my printer, so having it fully integrated would be fantastic.
kazolar out of curiosity what kind of machine is it running and what is the need for so many steppers?
Any mention of revamping the Duet2 and Maestro lines with updated stepper drivers, etc. to keep them current and competitive for those that don't need the power of the Duet3?
As I understand it, there ars currently no plans for drastically new revisions of Duet 2 and Maestro, but I'd be surprised if they'd eventually go out of production with no true successor. Until then, they're still fully supported.
Hey Thomas when will you do a review on the Duet3 mini5+? Lots of people seem to have the same question "will these new 2209 drivers run the higher resolution 0.9 motors"
What about the CoreXYUVAB? Is that a project printer or are you planning to do a Vid on that?
Yessss!!!!!!!!
I bought cheap printer controls for the first year to year and a half I was designing printers. Then I bought a Duet Wifi. I will never, ever buy anything but Duet electronics in the future. Once the 3 has been out for a little bit, I'll probably drop one in my big CoreXY (which can always use a tiny bit more stepper power) and move my current Deut Wifi over to my UM2 clone. Fantastic hardware and regular updates/improvements and great community and company support. All around excellent.
I could be crazy, I think per tool control boards has been a thing for a year or two in klipper. Part of why I am using it as the firmware for my DC servo based machine, since each motor/temperature controller will be entirely self contained, with closed loop feedback.
You need that when you want a 100 point heating grid for your build plate...
It's really cool to
I tried out Klipper but I didn`t realize it could be used like this, now seeing it like this makes a lot of sense.
@@cosminnci It is really nice, since you can spend $20 for a GRBL board, uno, and drivers, and end up with an extra four stepper channels.
I could be wrong, but I don't think there is actually a hard upper limit on the number of stepper channels or heaters? It is kinda crazy, especially considering the value proposition and flexibility.
@@williamforbes6919 Thing is I am a basic user, 5 steppers are enough, I can`t see in what setup I would need more.
@@cosminnci It is really for things like mixing extruders, multi Z axis motors, tool changing, head tramming, or multi point filament feeding.
The mixing extruder doesn't need to be a feature used for color. You can do things such as mixing multiple durometers/softness of TPU in order to have variably flexible prints. Slicers like IceSL make doing this very easy to via painting on the desired mixture right onto the part.
I intend to use separate linear actuators for lifting each print head for Z hops and tool changes. Having a separate channel for each allows me to calibrate for the variance in nozzle length in software and to hop with just the print head instead of the entire build plate and z axis.
Being able to add an extra channel without replacing the main board is nice as a feature for lower end machines as well, since the $20 GRBL board would let you add another extruder to an Ender 3 without any need for replacing the default motherboard.
The good thing about Altium is the libraries. But Eagle is free with student licences from Autodesk 😆
Glad you finally did a video about them. I already have a Duet 3 and I'm looking to become one of their new OEM's 😈
You should play with the Duet 3 Tom!
1:40 "24 motors" look at toms face lol
Duet has an insanely good support! I will never buy anything else or a clone.
I recently upgrade my delta printer to Duet 2 wifi board from MKS gen 1.4 board. I have to said that I am over impress by the performance of Duet board. I almost double my print speed (80mm/s) while still maintain good print quality.
I love to tool control board concept. It will be so much easier to upgrage a 3d printer. I also hope Prusa embraces the tool changer concept. Their printer is great but the mmu not so much.
Considering this isn't for the general hobbyist, those prices seem reasonable. Even more so if they include tech support. If you're an engineering company that needs to make new prototypes/products quickly downtime is even more costly, so having a smart tool head that can run self checks and be ready to go with minimal waiting is efficient. You can't get lost time back.
on the website in the description it says 4A peak... sooo what is it really now?
or is he talking about a newer prototype already then th 0.5 version we see a rendering of on the homepage?
CANBUS? On my 3d printer? Cool
Also, that new e3d extruder looks quite solid.
The website for the duet 3 says the drivers are 4A. Is this dated info and they are 6A or is the website correct?
Edit: After looking through the documentation the peak value is 6.3 amps 4A rms.
What are you going to use 24 stepper motors for?
I've used my Duet2 Wifi to revive my Printrbot Simple Metal
I think they don't lose much because of the clones.
People that can afford the original will very likely buy it, if someone can't afford the original then that person either buys completly different controller or a clone of Duet, in both ways they won't buy the original.
There is not so many people that can afford the original and will go for the clone.
Furthermore good clone will promote and popularise the original as well.
And obviously there is much more people that know those controlers, so owner of a clone will help the owner of a original.
It's the only one I'd buy, they are the best. First thing for my CNC machine is a Duet board.
Will the dynamic accelleration be available on the duet 2 wifi as a firmware update or only supported on the duet 3? That feature would be so revolutionary on my printer because i get bad ringing on vertical holes.
Nevermind a quick google search appears it is availavble on all duet boards.
Encoder also on tool changer ?
They are expensive compared to whatever else is on the table, but like everyone is saying, they offer something still in the ballpark that is way more capable. I am actually taking out completely good RAMBO boards so that I can use a Duet with the printers instead. They are so much easier to use and modify in my opinion. Well worth the extra quid, and I'm buying with US monies.
Nice shirt !
Is it @dc42 in the background ?!
Yep :D
He really is everywhere !
@@charlesmaurice1047 he'll reply to this comment with a solution momentarily.
i can't find information about supported voltage for stepper motors.
With all these expansion possibilities maybe we will finally be able to build a 4D printer! Someone should start to develop a volumetric slicer!
My question is
Can i use a "R" or use "I" and "J" as i can on cnc or am i locked at only "X" And "Y" ?
Seems to be great value, expensive... no, not in comparison to whats available, and especially if people are going to use this in a commercial space which I think what a lot of people move onto from the hobby scene. Seems to be a great initial investment and a lot of headroom for more innovation. Thanks for the great videos btw!
I can't find anything about the e3d hermes.
Look up their blog, they already released the presentation photos. I saw it yesterday.
@@mrraimundo130 I did. The last post I see is about a meeting in Sweden from May.
@@jesondag forum.e3d-online.com/threads/almost-direct-drive-tool-head.3353/#post-33873 here is some more info and links
I can't find it either
twitter.com/E3DOnline/status/1177629159780179968
Hi Tom I saw you at tct didn't say hi as your were getting your food didn't want to be that guy to bother you while your trying to eat, was a good show I think lots of improvements coming to the market just waiting for the next big thing in 3d printing
👍
Its interesting that there is a couple of projects going after the same challenges from opposite angles. E3D with a 3d printer hardware mindset working on "do it all" electronics and Klipper project using a more traditional CNC control mindset where the stepper drivers are dumb(ish). Both projects allowing for many steppers/heaters/fans/controllers etc. Klipper using USB that isn't the best but it looks like they started on CanBus.
Traditional CNC you spend your money on stepper motors and drivers while the electronics are dumb and not expensive that uses CNC control software that is also fairly inexpensive. 3D printers took what turned out to be the more expensive mindset of integrating a custom controllers with the steppers.
It's a shame there's no "standalone" Duet board, without drivers, mosfets, etc. - just a solid hardware base for RRF. Yes, you can buy the full board and expand on it, but it feels very wasteful to not use any of its features and route STEP/DIR to external servo drives. There's a LPC1768 port of RRF, but there are very few boards approaching the quality of Duet.
Jiri J I feel the same way. i fail to see the demand for high power stepper drivers that are fixed mounted on a board without the possibility to be replaced. Especially now that servo drives came down in price and can compete with the bigger stepper motors. its a classic case of making a product for a nonexistant market. CNC? most people go the linuxcnc route.
@@faxxzc Even for stepper motors, the Duet 3 doesn't go above 32V, which really doesn't make sense given the 6A rating - if they're aiming at NEMA34, one would expect 48-80V as is standard in other drives. Let's hope CAN proves useful enough for them to modularize the platform a bit.
Jiri J i think they want to retain safety for use with hobbyists as 80v can be lethal. Again i fail to see a market, what hobbyist uses 6A steppers ? Or which machine? I just cant imagine a use case. The Duet is a 3d printer centered board and is not very useful for cnc mills.
What about Free Software? As we all know Open Source is just a development mode. Tom love your shirt!
Duet boards are wonderful, just say'n.
Why didn’t dc42 speak or just say hello? I see him there.
If you are interested in Open Source, have a look at FreeCAD. It can do most of what Fusion 360° can do. But, admittedly, it can be much more annoying.
That nema 17 nerdy humour
from what i heard.. you could use it to run 2 machines at once
damn.... i want one so bad. but I can't afford one. the dynamic acceleration is amazing. the features of this board is stunning
@npgoalkeeper _ omfg I always missed that. That's so cool! thanks for telling me :3
Off topic but, will the e3d Hermes make titan areo redundant?
Yes.
I'm not sure I understood what he meant regarding Rpi and plugins. I _percieved_ him to basically say that their board and way is better because: The alternative for anyone wanting to develop and use a plugin when running a printer with a different board than theirs, even when hooked up to an Rpi running octoprint - is to hardbake that "plugin" into your own custom developed printer firmware.
Surely I must be misinterpreting what he said..? Otherwise that's one helluva false euqivalency to justify their product feature.
IMO that would be somewhat like Microsoft saying (or heavily insinusting) _"The advantage of running our Surface Pro X is that if you want to add functionality you can install programs and they won't break your OS - but with other laptops you have to develop your own linux kernel and bake that functionality in."_
Tom, when are you doing the big reveal for Hermès?
Full review when it's out, interview with Sanjay Saturday!
"Your queue position is 359" ... over one year waiting is more worse than waiting for Christmas gifts ;D ....buuuut: I can start my toolchanger with a Duet3 board, waiting is always good in terms of hardware ;)
Saw you there yesterday. Keep the videos coming! When’s the video on the Russians doing fancy carbon stuff coming?
If all goes well, tomorrow!
Hi Thomas.
I would like to turn ON and OFF my Dewalt D26200 router on the Duet2 WiFi using the Web Control but i'm not able to figure out how to do that.
There is no a relay on the Duet2 to manage that.
For example into the OPENBUILDS Black Box there is a relay output port i think is possible to use for that but into the Duet2 a relay is not available.
How can i implement this feature ?
Can i use an extruder or heated bed unused output or the Tool feature to set the status of an external relay ? How ? Thanks in advance
an SSR on the heater output would be easiest. otherwise you need to find a 5v > 120 (220v) mechanical which coils usually draw more than the IO will provide so yeah, an SSR will do.
so i can use the duet 3 to make my robot, or everyone else's overlord?
Did you get a Redmi K20/K20 Pro Tom?
I got the western version, a Mi 9T!
@@MadeWithLayers The G6 needed an update then. how're you finding it?
Was using the G7 recently, but ended up needing dualsim to separate business/private.
Very happy with the 9T's hardware / performance / camera, but I could do with a bit less of Xiaomi's MIUI over top of the Android.
@@MadeWithLayers fair, doing what I do i get to use a lot of carrier and OEM customisations, and whilst MIUI is a bit full on, i do find it as one of the more cohesive skins atop Android, though, obviously not for everyone
So what are those out of the box printers that come with Duet3d? I can't find any printer with duet at a reasonable price...
And I'm a bit afraid to convert my delta printer to Duet.
Also. I f*cking hate marlin :)
If you are interested in a delta running duet, SeeMeCNC artemis is a brilliant printer
So... similar to Smoothieboard 2 except.. .it actually exists.
about Duet clones ....Duet 2 cost around 120 for oryginal one .... clone cost around 90-100.... with chance that it will fail (90% of clones have problems working ok) Oryginal Duet is almost undestructible , you can short the wire etc and it dont damage the board, but cloned ones easly fail and burn if something go wrong.
Why isn't anyone designing custom 3D printers for $800 with the Duet 3 ecosystem and selling them?
What about Marlin?
??? Marlin runs on 8 bit atmel uCs. This is a a 32 bit controller
@@hansdietrich83 Thank You 2000% for this Info
Head of Layers ?? LOL
The Duet 3 website says 4A peak.
@npgoalkeeper _ Can you point me to that please? I can't see it.
why the 5160s on-board when they could have used 2209s?
more current support than 2209
To make it a viable option to use on CNC routers and mills, which use larger motors than the puny ones on 3D printers....
Please tell me you're going to do a video on the CoreXYUVABCDEFG printer
That'll be my printer. I don't quite use the entire alphabet though - Just Core XYUVAB plus Z so 7 axes (ohh and 6 extruders). I did do a chat about it in front of Tom's camera so maybe he'll post it.
I'm not sure about the etiquette here but here is a link to my blog - Tom can delete it if I've broken any rules
somei3deas.wordpress.com/