So, science time. The distributor spins at half the speed of the crank, so will the oil pump in this case. Rounding up stuff here for easy maths. Say your idle is 800RPM, the pump will spin at 400RPM. Your drill could be turning at up to 1500RPM, check the manual, so it should produce the same sort of oil pressure as the engine running at around 2/3000RPM. Can you connect an oil pressure gauge so you can check the actual pressure being produced? I think I would want to be 150% sure that all is well at this point.
We're not too keen on people coming on here and applying mathematics, and sound engineering practice or spouting cool, scientific based facts. If you start putting THOSE sort of ideas in Matt's head, where will it end? On THIS site, the pursuit of perfection is meaningless. On THIS site, the word that binds the majority of loyal viewers together is "schadenfreude". On THIS site, we are perfectly content to sit back and dunk a few Hob Nobs while watching a man go through a humiliating number of failures before he finally reaches a level of success that can, at best, be described as "adequate". On THIS site, we watch and wait for the God of Spectacular Bad Luck to cast his huge hand... Nothing more, nothing less.
This bloke is incredible! I'm sure that Matt welcomes this latest hiccup as a valuable learning experience, although for a few tense moments It seems he was within a hair's breadth of exclaiming "Oh, Dear Me!" Most people would have put a axe through the block by now.
The anticipation builds. One of my favorite moments in the classics hobby is hearing a long-dormant engine restart. We just got a friend’s pair of MG Midgets back on the road, and yes, the first starts were huge! Go, Rover. You can do it. ;-)
Could someone who knows audio please help this man out. Nice to hear how this project is going. ..not nice that it's still fighting you all the way. The day this fires and actually works will be a real day of triumph :)
@@furiousdriving Nope. They are surprisingly bad considering how pricy they are. My issue isn't with varying degrees of not great sounding audio. I can easily live with that. Content is prioritized way above stellar audio for me. My issue is with the distorted/overdriven audio. It's not diagnosed, but i think I'm allergic to such things 🙂
Aye, Matt's audio and video is usually really good quality, in this it's really bad. Audio fading in and out, very distorted, video not brill. Might be why it has fewer views than normal. Very interesting content though!
Great dexterity Matt. You are getting me very excited indeed. I really hope she starts for you and runs especially after all your sterling efforts. Hats off to you.
I can't help feeling that the petrol pipes need to be completely reliable. I would hate to learn of the P6 & garage demise due to a leak when it started and pumped fuel on the exhaust! Love your perseverance with Rover's finest.
The schematics for the distributor shows the vaccuum advance on the opposit side of the No1??? Connect a bulb to the pressureswitch to see if you get enough pressure while using the drill.
The endcap looked a bit worn on the pump? Isn't that where the oil spills back? Is the overpressure valve, usually a ball and a spring, clean and seated? I remember when Volvo sold a refurbish kit with new gears, ball and spring, but the endcap had to be machined if it was too worn. The pump in the Redblock Volvos is situated down in the sump with just a short screen, so it is bathing in oil while engine is shut down.
There is a mesh thimble like filter in the housing, and a ball and spring relief valve. Just hope he's got enough tolerance in the gears / cover when it gets up to temperature after seeing the problems. It's critical and the gears can chew swarf off the cover, and ultimately shear the drive tang on the distributor shart if thermal expansion causes excess friction in the pump. It's always a risk when you mix n match parts, or fit aftermarket kits. They changed to a better concentric pump driven off the crankshaft nose on the later/ bigger engines, which that 4.6 would have had in it's original timing cover.
Did you check the end float on the pump gears Matt ? There is a factory tollerance figure to allow for heat expansion in the different metals. Putting a straight edge across the pump housing to simulate the cover in place, slide a feeler gauge in to check the gap. A quick bit of maths will tell you if you need a thin /thicker gasket, or even need a thin shim to stay in tolerance when you bolt the cover back on. One other thing to check, as your engine is a mix of parts, make sure the oil filter is matched to the car model / year the pump was originally fitted to, not the 4.6 engine. I belive there were some metric / Imperial thread size changes for the spin on pump filter over the years. Seen it before, could be why it's not nipping up tight to seal, and they're a right pain to remove after some use.
My old boss had an F85 with the Oldsmobile version of this engine and I remember him talking about oil problems and some dealer retrofit involving a tube spraying the bottom of one piston. I'm sure Rover ironed out all those issues long ago, but it's cool seeing a version of that design from 35 years later. It looks like a tight fit in that P6; I hope you don't run into any more problems like this. Good luck with it; it will be quite a cool car when it's finished.
Super project! I’m only a small tiny things mechanic, although I love cars, and know quite a lot about the inner workings. Lovely, this kind of footage. This story actually gave me a few thoughts: 1. Changing an oil filter is risky business. Fire it up, detect that it wasn’t seated well, and you’re doomed. 2. Stacked paper gaskets: will that stay tight? 3. I’d probably use a milling machine to produce a spacer from metal. A small one from that famous German model builders tools will do the job (within 0.05 mm) and does not break the bank. Good luck!
You’ll get there, mate. I’ve been working on my SD1 (the FASD is not fully disengaging, so I can’t tune the engine properly) and I too am an idiot with a spanner. Easy tasks are easily frustrated. But when you win, you win big. Stick at it and your first cruise will be all the more sweeter!
Fingers crossed Matt next time we will hear some v8 rumble I'm sure your perseverance will come through! In my experience with the RV8 you really don't see lots of oil uptop it's more like dribbles of oil that come on the rockers so I think you'll be fine
After replacing the oil pump on my v8 3500, I restored the oil pressure by removing the very highest plug from the oil gallery visible above the oil pump. Only the very highest plug was successful. The next one down failed. If you find the one I'm talking about and fill the gallery with an oil can it should sort yours out too. I remember that i had the front of the car jacked up high when I did this.
If you suspect your oil pump of losing prime; just remove the oil pressure sender / oil pressure warning light switch and insert some oil using a funnel and a bit of rubber hose.
Hey Matt, that oil pump housing looked quite scored on camera? I know when I did my Rover v8 -3.5 flapper EFI into a series 3 Land Rover- one of ythe items in the oil pump rebuild was to check gear clearance and ensure there were no scratches or score marks on the housings. I packed the pump as you did then put the ignition on so the oil light was on the dash and then primed it untill the oil light went out with the drill and tool and used that as my "everything is ok" sign. Hope that helps and keep it up.
If a thick gasket is required for the base plate of the oil pump then something is really askew. The gears shouldn't be protruding that far, if at all. Gaskets seem to vary in rebuild kits from .009" - .013" in thickness. Ideally you want minimal endplay between the bottom gear faces and the oil pump base plate. .006" would be ideal and you'll find if using a priming tool (with any ancient type of drill) that there's no requirement for packing the pump with petroleum jelly if you've set the pump up with tight clearances. The pump should prime within 15 - 20 seconds. Dump the thin oil and forget the running in oil (1950s redundent tech)and use the correct viscosity oil for these engines preferably a 20/60W oil. The pumps for the engines are designed to pump in volume. Take a look at this brief video of mine outlining priming a Rover SD1 V8 for my MG Magnette coupe project. th-cam.com/video/OIeT1r6-dKQ/w-d-xo.html Nothing with the pump needs to be a drama if you set all the clearances correctly, even on an old pump. Good luck.
I was expecting it to be when they primed the oil pump on the engine on project binky, they were filling a container with the oil that oil pump shifted on a chuckless drill
8:20 Ive always been told not to charge a car battery on a bare concrete floor as it causes a temperature difference in the battery which can cause it to fail, sometimes catastrophically. Never seen it happen but always charged on a plank ect
Hi , I have a 3.5 ratrod , every time I drive after about 10 minutes it pours out gearbox oil , I was slightly too much inside but worrying, any ideas ? It’s done it many times now but after I stop and it gurgles out a pint at least
You should be Canonised, you have the patience of a Saint if not the other qualities. Let's hope that all the bangs occur in the right order and time when fired up. Do spin her over with the plugs out to check the oil pressure first though.
Are you using the Z6 II? Why does it find it impossible to get anything in focus unless you have it on a tripod set up away from what you are working on? Not set to centre focus spot only? Pity the camera has just a flip down screen, and useless for selfie type vlogging. Your filming of the road tests is excellent but that doesn't carry over into the garage. Fixed focus phones and GoPros do have their advantages. GoPros limited by their close focus distances and phones are better at that, some even having a macro setting.
Im putting a call out to collect pates from every country, viewers are sending them in (PO Box address in the description) and Im talking about them in the monthly postbag episode, that one came from a viewer in Australia
@@furiousdriving The question was "Your engine-out action, please..." and the reply was "I changed my Rover P6 unit during the last full lockdown, single-handedly. A real challenge!". Printed on page 25 of the April 2021 issue.
This type of rover pump is rubbish. Holden V8 external pumps are just as bad.Given long enough not running, they will refuse to pick up unless you re-prime them. The later G rotor crank driven rover pump is a much better design, and the '92 to '94 classic timing cover will give you a distributor as well as this later design pump and an oil cooler outlet. I installed a 4.6 in my '94 LSE and the newer design pump is much better.
Something very wrong in the setup here, you have no oil pressure, whatever you do don't try running the engine until you got it sorted, sorry to say, the worst video I have seen in ages, sound and pictures, given you had problems I hope it's a one off. Pressure relief valve stuck open, wrong filter (anti drain flap inside) you missed something when rebuilding, don't know, but something is a miss.
Your patience with this motor is incredible.
So, science time. The distributor spins at half the speed of the crank, so will the oil pump in this case. Rounding up stuff here for easy maths. Say your idle is 800RPM, the pump will spin at 400RPM. Your drill could be turning at up to 1500RPM, check the manual, so it should produce the same sort of oil pressure as the engine running at around 2/3000RPM. Can you connect an oil pressure gauge so you can check the actual pressure being produced?
I think I would want to be 150% sure that all is well at this point.
We're not too keen on people coming on here and applying mathematics, and sound engineering practice or spouting cool, scientific based facts. If you start putting THOSE sort of ideas in Matt's head, where will it end?
On THIS site, the pursuit of perfection is meaningless. On THIS site, the word that binds the majority of loyal viewers together is "schadenfreude". On THIS site, we are perfectly content to sit back and dunk a few Hob Nobs while watching a man go through a humiliating number of failures before he finally reaches a level of success that can, at best, be described as "adequate". On THIS site, we watch and wait for the God of Spectacular Bad Luck to cast his huge hand... Nothing more, nothing less.
This bloke is incredible! I'm sure that Matt welcomes this latest hiccup as a valuable learning experience, although for a few tense moments It seems he was within a hair's breadth of exclaiming "Oh, Dear Me!" Most people would have put a axe through the block by now.
I have seen the same thing with owners of vintage computers, they never give up.
@@robertfoster6070 And we only usually hear about them after the police tape has been strung across the garden gate.
The perils of mixing and matching bits from different years, capacities, and the many models the Rover V8 was fitted to. 🤪
And another step closer. I'm really looking forward to the startup
The anticipation builds. One of my favorite moments in the classics hobby is hearing a long-dormant engine restart. We just got a friend’s pair of MG Midgets back on the road, and yes, the first starts were huge! Go, Rover. You can do it. ;-)
Could someone who knows audio please help this man out. Nice to hear how this project is going. ..not nice that it's still fighting you all the way. The day this fires and actually works will be a real day of triumph :)
Half was done on a GoPro, the never have good microphones
@@furiousdriving Nope. They are surprisingly bad considering how pricy they are. My issue isn't with varying degrees of not great sounding audio. I can easily live with that. Content is prioritized way above stellar audio for me. My issue is with the distorted/overdriven audio. It's not diagnosed, but i think I'm allergic to such things 🙂
@@furiousdriving Also that auto-focus is trolling you hard.
I thought it was my speakers becasue Matt usually has decent audio.
Aye, Matt's audio and video is usually really good quality, in this it's really bad. Audio fading in and out, very distorted, video not brill. Might be why it has fewer views than normal. Very interesting content though!
Great dexterity Matt. You are getting me very excited indeed. I really hope she starts for you and runs especially after all your sterling efforts. Hats off to you.
Back to square one and falling down a snake springs to mind. Hope you land on more squares with ladders.
What a pain this is to work on matt. I like your perseverance and I hope you get the car up and running again.
Despite the woes, you're doing a great job and showing resilience and patience which are paying off.
Thanks, hoping it gets there soon
I can't help feeling that the petrol pipes need to be completely reliable. I would hate to learn of the P6 & garage demise due to a leak when it started and pumped fuel on the exhaust! Love your perseverance with Rover's finest.
The schematics for the distributor shows the vaccuum advance on the opposit side of the No1??? Connect a bulb to the pressureswitch to see if you get enough pressure while using the drill.
The endcap looked a bit worn on the pump? Isn't that where the oil spills back? Is the overpressure valve, usually a ball and a spring, clean and seated? I remember when Volvo sold a refurbish kit with new gears, ball and spring, but the endcap had to be machined if it was too worn. The pump in the Redblock Volvos is situated down in the sump with just a short screen, so it is bathing in oil while engine is shut down.
There is a mesh thimble like filter in the housing, and a ball and spring relief valve. Just hope he's got enough tolerance in the gears / cover when it gets up to temperature after seeing the problems. It's critical and the gears can chew swarf off the cover, and ultimately shear the drive tang on the distributor shart if thermal expansion causes excess friction in the pump. It's always a risk when you mix n match parts, or fit aftermarket kits. They changed to a better concentric pump driven off the crankshaft nose on the later/ bigger engines, which that 4.6 would have had in it's original timing cover.
Your tenacity is most admirable. Well done.
Did you check the end float on the pump gears Matt ? There is a factory tollerance figure to allow for heat expansion in the different metals. Putting a straight edge across the pump housing to simulate the cover in place, slide a feeler gauge in to check the gap. A quick bit of maths will tell you if you need a thin /thicker gasket, or even need a thin shim to stay in tolerance when you bolt the cover back on. One other thing to check, as your engine is a mix of parts, make sure the oil filter is matched to the car model / year the pump was originally fitted to, not the 4.6 engine. I belive there were some metric / Imperial thread size changes for the spin on pump filter over the years. Seen it before, could be why it's not nipping up tight to seal, and they're a right pain to remove after some use.
My old boss had an F85 with the Oldsmobile version of this engine and I remember him talking about oil problems and some dealer retrofit involving a tube spraying the bottom of one piston. I'm sure Rover ironed out all those issues long ago, but it's cool seeing a version of that design from 35 years later. It looks like a tight fit in that P6; I hope you don't run into any more problems like this. Good luck with it; it will be quite a cool car when it's finished.
Man that oil pump is a real headache! It shows: never give up. Mad respect Matt.
Hi Matt, it's bloody frustrating that this ain't starting.fingers crossed the Rover starts on the next video.
Super project! I’m only a small tiny things mechanic, although I love cars, and know quite a lot about the inner workings. Lovely, this kind of footage. This story actually gave me a few thoughts: 1. Changing an oil filter is risky business. Fire it up, detect that it wasn’t seated well, and you’re doomed. 2. Stacked paper gaskets: will that stay tight? 3. I’d probably use a milling machine to produce a spacer from metal. A small one from that famous German model builders tools will do the job (within 0.05 mm) and does not break the bank.
Good luck!
Have just started rebuilding my 3.5,
Definitely going to prime before fitting,
Looks a right pain.
You’ll get there, mate. I’ve been working on my SD1 (the FASD is not fully disengaging, so I can’t tune the engine properly) and I too am an idiot with a spanner. Easy tasks are easily frustrated. But when you win, you win big. Stick at it and your first cruise will be all the more sweeter!
Fingers crossed Matt next time we will hear some v8 rumble I'm sure your perseverance will come through! In my experience with the RV8 you really don't see lots of oil uptop it's more like dribbles of oil that come on the rockers so I think you'll be fine
You are such a tease. Rover start vs lockdown finished. Which first?
So at least 21 June then.
Really felt the frustration of the re-assembly of the pump! You are doing a great job, excited to see her on the road again!
After replacing the oil pump on my v8 3500, I restored the oil pressure by removing the very highest
plug from the oil gallery visible above the oil pump. Only the very highest plug was successful. The next one down failed.
If you find the one I'm talking about and fill the gallery with an oil can it should sort yours out too. I remember that i had the front
of the car jacked up high when I did this.
Can’t wait to hear it start up for the first time!
me too!
If you suspect your oil pump of losing prime; just remove the oil pressure sender / oil pressure warning light switch and insert some oil using a funnel and a bit of rubber hose.
Good tip, thanks!
Hey Matt, that oil pump housing looked quite scored on camera? I know when I did my Rover v8 -3.5 flapper EFI into a series 3 Land Rover- one of ythe items in the oil pump rebuild was to check gear clearance and ensure there were no scratches or score marks on the housings. I packed the pump as you did then put the ignition on so the oil light was on the dash and then primed it untill the oil light went out with the drill and tool and used that as my "everything is ok" sign. Hope that helps and keep it up.
Well done on your amazing patience, sure it will come right for you.
Aaah so close! This is getting exciting! 😃😃
Looking forward to seeing the first start up!
If a thick gasket is required for the base plate of the oil pump then something is really askew. The gears shouldn't be protruding that far, if at all. Gaskets seem to vary in rebuild kits from .009" - .013" in thickness. Ideally you want minimal endplay between the bottom gear faces and the oil pump base plate. .006" would be ideal and you'll find if using a priming tool (with any ancient type of drill) that there's no requirement for packing the pump with petroleum jelly if you've set the pump up with tight clearances. The pump should prime within 15 - 20 seconds. Dump the thin oil and forget the running in oil (1950s redundent tech)and use the correct viscosity oil for these engines preferably a 20/60W oil. The pumps for the engines are designed to pump in volume. Take a look at this brief video of mine outlining priming a Rover SD1 V8 for my MG Magnette coupe project. th-cam.com/video/OIeT1r6-dKQ/w-d-xo.html Nothing with the pump needs to be a drama if you set all the clearances correctly, even on an old pump. Good luck.
I used a drill on my SD1 - the oil came out of the rocker gear quickly.
Keeping my fingers crossed on more progress on this classic Rover!
Think how chuffed you were when you conquered Quentin. This car is bound to give you the same feeling when it starts
You have the patience of a Bentley/Rolls owner! Time to add one to the FD fleet.
Be good to hear it running soon.
Maybe next time👍
I was expecting it to be when they primed the oil pump on the engine on project binky, they were filling a container with the oil that oil pump shifted on a chuckless drill
Seen the mighty merc in the background, 🤓 definitely an advert for draper tools 🔧🤓👍 how to fix your classic in a garage at home 🤔🤓👍
Or how not too!
8:20 Ive always been told not to charge a car battery on a bare concrete floor as it causes a temperature difference in the battery which can cause it to fail, sometimes catastrophically. Never seen it happen but always charged on a plank ect
Id not heard that before, interesting theory
Interesting theory, I've been charging batteries on garage floors for 30 years with no issues.
Hi , I have a 3.5 ratrod , every time I drive after about 10 minutes it pours out gearbox oil , I was slightly too much inside but worrying, any ideas ? It’s done it many times now but after I stop and it gurgles out a pint at least
This car will be amazing with the new engine, looking forward to the start up video!!❤️.
Yup another step closer to start up and will have to remember radiators are good for rough skin ;)
Getting there will be cool to hear it going. Also the auto focus on that new camera is really dodgy, makes me feel like i have cataracts lol
Im not very impressed with it. Anyone got a Canon R6 I can borrow for a try?
You should be Canonised, you have the patience of a Saint if not the other qualities. Let's hope that all the bangs occur in the right order and time when fired up. Do spin her over with the plugs out to check the oil pressure first though.
We’ve all been there, man!
Keep going nearly there!
Nice ‘n Sleazy.... the Car in Black.....
it will fire up !!!!
Matt do you use 10w40 for a V8 rather than 20w50 ??
That's where the oil usually ends up with range rover engines.
Nearly there!
Cant wait to see you drive your P6!!
I've seen less complex work on the Spacestation!
It would be easier up there without gravity to fight!
Base, base base. Buttery biscuit base.
Are you using the Z6 II? Why does it find it impossible to get anything in focus unless you have it on a tripod set up away from what you are working on? Not set to centre focus spot only? Pity the camera has just a flip down screen, and useless for selfie type vlogging. Your filming of the road tests is excellent but that doesn't carry over into the garage. Fixed focus phones and GoPros do have their advantages. GoPros limited by their close focus distances and phones are better at that, some even having a macro setting.
Yes, Im trying it set to wide area auto face detect, but it still gets confused too easily
Not on topic but what’s the story with the SEN 745 plate?
Im putting a call out to collect pates from every country, viewers are sending them in (PO Box address in the description) and Im talking about them in the monthly postbag episode, that one came from a viewer in Australia
Was that your Facebook post I saw printed in the several-months-old Practical Classics magazine that I was reading last night?
Depends, what did it say?
@@furiousdriving The question was "Your engine-out action, please..." and the reply was "I changed my Rover P6 unit during the last full lockdown, single-handedly. A real challenge!". Printed on page 25 of the April 2021 issue.
@@Zeem4 That sounds like mine, if edited slightly I didnt see that issue but do know the guys on PC so they may well have picked my reply!
@ furiousdriving what is going on with the W123 Mercedes. Time for an update please.
yes, need to spend some time on that
please do something with the camera, we are missing so much.
Time he gets it going the car will have rotted away
Sort the focus out son ......
And so the Rover V8 woes continue :(
👍💚
Talk about pulling teeth 😆😆😆😆
I'm starting this video with good news.... Then all bad news.
Worst filming and worst sound ever..but still interesting,exciting waiting g to see her fire!🙂
This type of rover pump is rubbish. Holden V8 external pumps are just as bad.Given long enough not running, they will refuse to pick up unless you re-prime them. The later G rotor crank driven rover pump is a much better design, and the '92 to '94 classic timing cover will give you a distributor as well as this later design pump and an oil cooler outlet. I installed a 4.6 in my '94 LSE and the newer design pump is much better.
Something very wrong in the setup here, you have no oil pressure, whatever you do don't try running the engine until you got it sorted, sorry to say, the worst video I have seen in ages, sound and pictures, given you had problems I hope it's a one off. Pressure relief valve stuck open, wrong filter (anti drain flap inside) you missed something when rebuilding, don't know, but something is a miss.
Your mic sounds absolutely awful distorted loud quite but always distorted even on other videos sorry
thats the GoPro when its used