Theres fine print at the bottom of the codex that says WinterSEO's first 9th edition game must be against SayHiPaul. Its very hard to see but its there I assure you :)
Seriously! Winters thank you for this explanation. You made it simple to understand plus having examples was a big help. Please, you should do this kinda of video more often with different rules in the game. A good informative how to guide. Again thank you.
Thank you for taking the time to explain these rules. Seem ok but not blown away by them like I was hoping to be. I don’t like not being able to shoot something you can clearly see.
Ty for this, I am building terrain and knowing the new rules on terrain helps me SO MUCH in deciding what and how to build my terrain peices! you rock winters.
Just tested the new rules for the first time; absolutely love the variety for tactical decision making, but it's very hard to keep track of the different traits without labels when you have a 6'x4' table covered with different terrain types. If you only use official terrain this might not be as much of an issue, but I have all homemade terrain for my table so I will be seeking out/making label tokens.
I played a few the other day and the way we made it easy was making sure our table was themed with like terrain, the traits varied but it was easier than having a bunch of mixed terrain on the board which had vastly different traits. So like we did one city one with tons of ruined walls, barricades, ruins, statuaries, etc. then did one that was all swamp themed. It had enough different pieces to keep the traits varied on the board without having so many different things at once where it overwhelmed us.
19:00 the plagueburst crawler, the mortar has a rule that allows it to target units that are not in line of sight, so with that weapon only, it could still fire
Rules question from a new person: can terrain be destroyed by large or specialty units? Interested in narrative play and wondering if something like a carnifex or a dreadnought could bust through terrain to attack something like from a scene in a movie.
Think you are misreading heavy cover, or they have changed the rule! RAW it benefits the charging unit and not the charged. Great video though keep up the good work :)
Fortunately the bullet points below are very clear that a model that has made a charge does not get the +1 to save. It will hopefully still get an errata though. Edit: should note that you are correct about the RAW though, which might mean that this rule doesn't actually work on the first turn of combat because the core rule takes it away from the defender and the bullet point takes it away from the attacker?
@@ROilman My guess would that the actual rule texts are the one to go by, not the bullet points but obviously this needs to be fixed since they are currently contradicting each other.
I am pretty sure that in the tank example of obscuring terrain tank1 could should tank2 if: Tank1 or tank2 had a toe into the terrain. I think the obscuring does not apply to any units that are “in” the terrain itself.
thank you for this as a noob to 40k this has been giving me a headache - 1 question if something is breachable - but its modelled as a solid wall can the infantry pass straight through said wall? dont have to navigate doors etc that are modelled
One last question brother does this apply for Los for unit within the terrain ie can't they shoot through the wall when occupying the terrain and be shot at
Given the rules for Obstacles (i.e. to receive the benefits of cover it must be within 3" and be infantry, beasts or swarms), does this mean vehicles gain no benefits from Obstacles. If so what counts as a benefit? Is it all of the terrain traits including those that are not reasonably considered benefits. Is it just light cover and heavy cover? To give an example, barricades are difficult ground, is this ignored by vehicles (but not the up and down movement) as its a benefit of cover (or more reasonably called an effect of cover) and obstacles do not give that benefit (effect) to vehicles because its not infantry, swarm or beast. If it does apply to vehicles, how do you exactly determine what are the 'benefits of cover' if it relates to only a few of the terrain traits.
Just realised those hit nerfs and terrain buffs are quite a big nerf to a Vindicare Assassin, he no longer gets -2 to hit in terrain :( do you think they'll give Vindicares any kind of change to accomodate? The whole point is they're hard to hit because of their stealth suit. Obviously there are other units that probably have similar rules.
So if u are in the building and your opponent is out... the knight in this example.. the opponent can see u but u can't see them. Is that correct? Or is it once one unit is in the building you can see them and they can see you??
The one rule I probably will never agree on is Obscuring. If my tank can see the enemy tank, it should be able to shoot it. The rest I'm fine with and actually happy about.
I believe the main reason of *obscuring* was essentially similar to the ITC way of treating the ground floor of ruins as LoS-blocking. You need a lot of LoS-blocking terrain in 40K because it is so extremely shooty. And if a milimeter crack in a wall is enough for your tank to "see" the enemy tank, then actually hiding stuff becomes extremely difficult. Winters example with the tanks and the big ruin to me shows pretty clearly, why having ruins on large bases is not in the spirit of the rule. Obviously there is a MASSIVE gap at the end of the terrain piece and that should not obscure anything. I would treat the actual ruin pieces (plus their "imagined" footprint" as obscuring and ignore the base in cases like that. Overall I disagree with you, though. I think that is by far the most useful terrain trait since it might give assault armies a fighting chance to actually get to their targets without having to rely on delivery systems like Deep Strike.
That obscuring rule needs some retooling. If I have LOS with my Wraithknight, then I'm going to shoot the enemy, obscuring terrain or not, especially if they can shoot me without LOS. Such a broken rule.
Thanks a lot for trying to explain this. Tho it still looks so confusing and over complicated. I feel many of these rules are so unnecessary, I'm really scared for how my chaos knights will perform in this edition
i just wanted to ask, what about imperial fists? can they still shoot through cover and if so then can the opponent shoot back? because if so then Imperial fists can shoot through cover but opponents can't shoot them back. does anyone know if this rule still applies?
Too many terrian tag to remember , and who will decide what terrian will have what tag anyway , is the same table i play at the shop will have a different kind of terrian tag everytime i play with different people geez.
You decide ahead of time with your opponent the same way it's always been. Having the rules be simplified to the point of Terrain being useless, where a tank can shoot through a cracked wall, was lame.
Correction on heavy cover, it works counter intuitively and the attacks made by models that charge don't provide cover. So defenders loose cover, attackers gain it. THIS NEEDS FAQing!!!
Ok. Probably a gamey thing, and im playing devils advocate here so bear with me. Lore states Space Marines have the ability to magnetise boots.If you put a magnet on the underside of the base, and your terrain is metal rather than MDF / resin etc, could you walk up it?
@@matthewstone1362 Some of these rules are pretty lame. Some were saying 8th got congested and bloated. 9th is about to be a pain in the ass. 9th will be the space marine edition. All the rules favor them. You won't see some xenos armies, swarms or mobs. 3 armies that I have and I don't even want to run them against GW's poster boys. Half the people I see playing are running marines and half of those are Ultrasmurfs. This shouldn't be called 40k. It should be called Space Marines in the 42 thousandth year or some shit.
Between you and Auspex Tactics I don't even look at the GW releases anymore. Thanks for all your hard work Winters, cheers.
Exactly the same for me!
Theres fine print at the bottom of the codex that says WinterSEO's first 9th edition game must be against SayHiPaul. Its very hard to see but its there I assure you :)
BooshMighty Yep I caught that too actually
Chapter approved.
And we will rules lawyer the hell out of this one, Winters!
and Orks must be brought!!!
Oh yes i see that too. If this rule is broken then the 13th will all preish from carona.
Seriously! Winters thank you for this explanation. You made it simple to understand plus having examples was a big help. Please, you should do this kinda of video more often with different rules in the game. A good informative how to guide. Again thank you.
Thank you for taking the time to explain these rules. Seem ok but not blown away by them like I was hoping to be. I don’t like not being able to shoot something you can clearly see.
Ty for this, I am building terrain and knowing the new rules on terrain helps me SO MUCH in deciding what and how to build my terrain peices! you rock winters.
Brilliant video! Made all the terrain traits nice and clear, can't wait to play 9th edition! Can finally bust out my box of terrain.
Awesome video Winters! Kudos 👍
Interesting watch buddy and really liking the new terrain rules 😁
Darren
That was really helpful, thank you so much Winters... you are the don of 40K!
Thank you! This is what I've been looking for. I'm making some terrain and want to know what's what.
Thanks, I’m just starting out with the command edition
Just tested the new rules for the first time; absolutely love the variety for tactical decision making, but it's very hard to keep track of the different traits without labels when you have a 6'x4' table covered with different terrain types. If you only use official terrain this might not be as much of an issue, but I have all homemade terrain for my table so I will be seeking out/making label tokens.
I played a few the other day and the way we made it easy was making sure our table was themed with like terrain, the traits varied but it was easier than having a bunch of mixed terrain on the board which had vastly different traits. So like we did one city one with tons of ruined walls, barricades, ruins, statuaries, etc. then did one that was all swamp themed. It had enough different pieces to keep the traits varied on the board without having so many different things at once where it overwhelmed us.
Thank you winters, always informative mate. Nice hat!
You can tell Winters picked up the Lord of Chaos Undivided...AKA the Cat up off the table before setup!
That cleared up a lot, thanks Winters. When will the End of All Things battle with the new War of the Spider toys?
19:00 the plagueburst crawler, the mortar has a rule that allows it to target units that are not in line of sight, so with that weapon only, it could still fire
Thanks so much! I was looking forward to this video especially
Thanks matey. Great work.
Really really good video, thank you
19:14 lol you did have to pick a tank that does not actually need LoS to demonstrate area terrain los blocking
Very helpful, thanks
Im here because I just learned 8th rules and have not one to game with lol so Im just gonna paint and when im ready il be ready :).
Rules question from a new person: can terrain be destroyed by large or specialty units? Interested in narrative play and wondering if something like a carnifex or a dreadnought could bust through terrain to attack something like from a scene in a movie.
My wraithlord ghostglaiving its way through masonry 😲
10:19 You don't need to see every model in the target unit; one will suffice.
Mate, this is great cheers.
Came here after watching the Rule review to watch the 10 minute terrain review as promised. What, Wait! Its a 23 minute video?
Think you are misreading heavy cover, or they have changed the rule! RAW it benefits the charging unit and not the charged. Great video though keep up the good work :)
Fortunately the bullet points below are very clear that a model that has made a charge does not get the +1 to save. It will hopefully still get an errata though.
Edit: should note that you are correct about the RAW though, which might mean that this rule doesn't actually work on the first turn of combat because the core rule takes it away from the defender and the bullet point takes it away from the attacker?
@@ROilman My guess would that the actual rule texts are the one to go by, not the bullet points but obviously this needs to be fixed since they are currently contradicting each other.
How would pipes/barricades affect the rules for models needing to be within 1/2 inch of another model within 1/2 inch? And thanks for the vid👍🏼
I imagine it would be first rank second rank. The first fighting as if in contact.
It'll play havoc with piling in and consolidation though.
I wonder if flamers will have rules to ignore any of this stuff or grenades will allow you to overcome some advantages/ disadvantages?
I am pretty sure that in the tank example of obscuring terrain tank1 could should tank2 if:
Tank1 or tank2 had a toe into the terrain.
I think the obscuring does not apply to any units that are “in” the terrain itself.
thank you for this as a noob to 40k this has been giving me a headache - 1 question if something is breachable - but its modelled as a solid wall can the infantry pass straight through said wall? dont have to navigate doors etc that are modelled
Yes. Straight through the solid wall. The wall can be "breached"
@@wintersSEO ur a legend thank u
One last question brother does this apply for Los for unit within the terrain ie can't they shoot through the wall when occupying the terrain and be shot at
Given the rules for Obstacles (i.e. to receive the benefits of cover it must be within 3" and be infantry, beasts or swarms), does this mean vehicles gain no benefits from Obstacles. If so what counts as a benefit? Is it all of the terrain traits including those that are not reasonably considered benefits. Is it just light cover and heavy cover? To give an example, barricades are difficult ground, is this ignored by vehicles (but not the up and down movement) as its a benefit of cover (or more reasonably called an effect of cover) and obstacles do not give that benefit (effect) to vehicles because its not infantry, swarm or beast.
If it does apply to vehicles, how do you exactly determine what are the 'benefits of cover' if it relates to only a few of the terrain traits.
So wait, do vehicles get to move over barricades, or is it only infantry like in the case of ruins?
Just realised those hit nerfs and terrain buffs are quite a big nerf to a Vindicare Assassin, he no longer gets -2 to hit in terrain :( do you think they'll give Vindicares any kind of change to accomodate? The whole point is they're hard to hit because of their stealth suit. Obviously there are other units that probably have similar rules.
I think its more to stop stacking those minus ones.
I hope my harlequins still ignore obstacles and terrain otherwise they're just fat lazy clowns🤨
So if u are in the building and your opponent is out... the knight in this example.. the opponent can see u but u can't see them. Is that correct? Or is it once one unit is in the building you can see them and they can see you??
The one rule I probably will never agree on is Obscuring. If my tank can see the enemy tank, it should be able to shoot it. The rest I'm fine with and actually happy about.
I believe the main reason of *obscuring* was essentially similar to the ITC way of treating the ground floor of ruins as LoS-blocking. You need a lot of LoS-blocking terrain in 40K because it is so extremely shooty. And if a milimeter crack in a wall is enough for your tank to "see" the enemy tank, then actually hiding stuff becomes extremely difficult.
Winters example with the tanks and the big ruin to me shows pretty clearly, why having ruins on large bases is not in the spirit of the rule. Obviously there is a MASSIVE gap at the end of the terrain piece and that should not obscure anything. I would treat the actual ruin pieces (plus their "imagined" footprint" as obscuring and ignore the base in cases like that.
Overall I disagree with you, though. I think that is by far the most useful terrain trait since it might give assault armies a fighting chance to actually get to their targets without having to rely on delivery systems like Deep Strike.
It just saves you having to buy hundreds of alien trees for los blocking.
Hi, anyone know where the battle mat / surface is from? Many thanks.
If ruins have a border around the top, does a model standing on the top floor get light cover?
Sorry, like a broken wall, etc
That obscuring rule needs some retooling. If I have LOS with my Wraithknight, then I'm going to shoot the enemy, obscuring terrain or not, especially if they can shoot me without LOS. Such a broken rule.
Models with an 18+ wounds characterstic..... This means Imperial Knights.... *sad wraightknight noises*
“Bite sized video”
Comparwd to a normal video? No. Compared to a game? Yes, its definitely bite sized
Paul sized bite
Its an "american" bite size hahaa
So the plagueburst crawlers mortar can't hit the repulser because of the obscuring rule? Genuine question from someone who hates fighting Basilisks
Are the lore sections of the new rulebook still under NDA?
I can see some sort of terrain tokens being useful in 9th Ed
Do imperial fist just ignore all the things like dense cover that give a minus to hit cause that seems kinda scummy but they are SM so who knows
So can an imperial knight cross a wall 1" high (about as tall as its foot) that is breachable and scalable as it's not infantry beast or swarm?
I think if its only an inch higher its neither scalable nor breachable
So because terrain has a data sheet means you can’t make your own custom terrain?
Dara M opponent has to agree and the traits they have
Raven guard nerfd eBay will be flooded with while armies like the Iron Hands
need reanimation updated rules!!
Thanks a lot for trying to explain this. Tho it still looks so confusing and over complicated. I feel many of these rules are so unnecessary, I'm really scared for how my chaos knights will perform in this edition
i just wanted to ask, what about imperial fists? can they still shoot through cover and if so then can the opponent shoot back? because if so then Imperial fists can shoot through cover but opponents can't shoot them back. does anyone know if this rule still applies?
Too many terrian tag to remember , and who will decide what terrian will have what tag anyway , is the same table i play at the shop will have a different kind of terrian tag everytime i play with different people geez.
You decide ahead of time with your opponent the same way it's always been. Having the rules be simplified to the point of Terrain being useless, where a tank can shoot through a cracked wall, was lame.
Correction on heavy cover, it works counter intuitively and the attacks made by models that charge don't provide cover. So defenders loose cover, attackers gain it. THIS NEEDS FAQing!!!
Chargers are moving in for the kill, they're not going to stop their charge just because the enemy is hiding behind a column.
☺😊😀😁😂5 Nice
Winters im so sad about all this again. Only to be reviewed again in 10 months. Im from 2nd so this is getting tedious xD
Ok. Probably a gamey thing, and im playing devils advocate here so bear with me. Lore states Space Marines have the ability to magnetise boots.If you put a magnet on the underside of the base, and your terrain is metal rather than MDF / resin etc, could you walk up it?
Cover needed some updates, but this seems like way too much information to try and remember :(
i fail to see how woods are defensible
Yay more promotion of shit of cant afford due to insane pricing and resale greed
I hate this edition already.
Why?
@@matthewstone1362 Some of these rules are pretty lame. Some were saying 8th got congested and bloated. 9th is about to be a pain in the ass. 9th will be the space marine edition. All the rules favor them. You won't see some xenos armies, swarms or mobs. 3 armies that I have and I don't even want to run them against GW's poster boys. Half the people I see playing are running marines and half of those are Ultrasmurfs. This shouldn't be called 40k. It should be called Space Marines in the 42 thousandth year or some shit.
"not that complicated". Proceeds to spend over 20minutes trying to explain...