Matt your work on my 44 cross overs and refurbishment of my tweeters have transformed my speakers into something I love to listen to and I can't imagine me buying anything new, if your upfront with your costs, make good profit and your client is willing to pay to obtain a reliable speaker with fantastic sound then speaker refurbishment must be the way to go, keep up the great work.
The rebuild/calibration of the crossovers you do Matt, alone, is worth twice what you sell them for. In all probability, a £600 speaker from you is equivalent to a £2k + modern pair. Love watching you do the craft :)
Really sound advice, I’ve often thought about buying something from EBay and doing them up. I bought new Audio Physic Classic 3 on EBay, new HiFi shop, pretty much half price, really happy with them. I take your point about the throw away culture but I’m not sure the vintage speakers offered are always good value
I had my Ditton 44 cross over repaired/serviced by you ... best thing I ever did ... I've actually replaced the bass speakers with new but sympathetic drivers (I spent a long time trying to find a similar sounding speaker), because they kept failing ..I was worried they would sound terrible, but was pleasantly surprised with the result. Maybe even better to my ears? I'm enjoying them, and i guess that ticks the box for me..
Very interesting and mind provoking video that makes you wonder. My first proper pair of speakers were Wharfedale Lintons bought when I was 15 or 16 years old and I think I paid under £100 for them. Then i bought some Celestion Ditton 66's when i was 18ish and they were very good. 50 years later the Celestions are no longer with us, and the new wharfedale Lintone's now cost £1,099.00p so if I still had a pair of them would I get them refurbished for £600 ish, I think not. Why, because you need to refurbish the amps, cassette decks, turntables etc etc of the 70's to rekindle the thrill of 70's and then it becomes very impracticable, providing that is, you still have all that 70's gear. I honestly think 50 year old speakers can't compete with modern amplifiers and source components, but hey nostalgia is a very potent emotion and some people thrive on nostalgia. P.s I very much doubt I'll still be here when my B&W 803 D3's are due for an upgrade or refurbishment🤣🤣🤣
I repaired a speaker today so it was worth it financially in a way. But sometimes even if I can repair it I don't want to spend the time on it ;p If you love the speaker it can be worth getting it fixed. If just wanting to sell then of course it goes on a case by case on what you can do or how much things will cost, time etc.
My "daily use" speakers are vintage. I listen to Lowther Acousta 115s. Mine were made between 1970 and 1973. I bought them twenty years ago for £295 from Ebay. The cabinets are used but presentable rather than mint. These are full range, so no crossover to worry about. They came with knackered drive units so I sent them back to Lowther as service exchange and upgraded at the same time. With re-cabling the total came in below £900. Not cheap perhaps but the current Lowther equivalent is about seven grand. I am very happy with my vintage version.
Yeah those psb´s do remind me a bit of my old Snell J3`s from early 1990`s. I upgraded to E3`s and refoamed them some 10 years ago. Been thinking of recapping them too. Truly love the sound of them.
I'm really looking forward to seeing what you make of the PSBs too, but then I've got skin in the game! Quite a lot of these older speakers are available for very reasonable money if you look around (the Cadenzas were £120 and the 104s were a little over £200), and if you fully expect to replace some of the crossover components. I think some people get rid of them because they don't sound as good as modern speakers, not realising that the caps have dried out. I can't imagine anyone buying them for resale, though; buy them because you love them, and want to return them to the condition of their glory days so you can enjoy them throughout your own.
When I can I give away some of my old stuff.i don't have a lot of money but it's a great improvement over what that person has for example a Bluetooth speaker.a lot of the amps and speakers are 30+yrs old and are still sounding good.
Hey how to contact you? Have a pair of 44s here that deserve to have money spent on them. Would rather bring these back to life than get a second hand pair that may well need work. Thanks.
Another major factor in refurbishment decisions is the high cost of shipping these days - not just for the parts but for the speakers themselves in acquiring or sending out for work (or getting a donor pair). Definitely one reason why mini-monitors seem to hold their value better on the used market.
How about crossovers alone just for recap and such as I have a spare pair over crossovers for mine and was wondering could I just sent in them alone save on sending the speakers to as they are heavy the mids in them or 8" with 4 inch cone tweeter and a 12" mid woofer
A lot of people do just remove there crossovers and post them to me. That's all fine as long as they are capable of removing and refitting / reconnecting the crossovers. I've had to talk many a client through the process which takes up way to much unchangeable time
Most of restorations here in Brazil is not viable financially... humidity affect the structure, good spare parts very scarce and average people cannot afford with the costs.I did it for thirds and stopped due to complaints about budget and time spent on.
It's a hard one for many, the actual costs of getting any old equipment serviced has gone through the roof, as have second hand prices, even charity shops want hundreds for old non working speakers. Getting spares is problematic and there is no such thing as a simple refurb. The second hand market for many items not just speakers is in effect killing the retro hifi market, the prices are just getting deranged considering the performance and lifespan. There is litterally no point in spending £500 on a Kef 104ab that will still need some TLC when £500 can buy some pretty decent speakers today, Wharfdale Elisium or Heritages look great, yet looking at budget studio monitoring you find midfield and nearfield monitors from the likes of Kali, fully active, very acurate, and costing less than the old 104ab in some cases yet more accurate than anything in Richer Sounds under £1000. I love the old 104ab, but hand on heart it cannot hold a candle to the capability and value of some of the new kids or later second hand speakers in the £500 bracket. A few years back mint 104ab were not far off the price of taking the family out, mint examples were around £150, how the hell did an old flower pot home passive radiator 2 way get to being priced at £500 lol. I also have to state though, I see no reality in the pricing of many of todays speakers, Missions reisue of the 770 is frankly boggling, no way was the old one that great, no way is the new release worth £3300, just as its rather saddening to see speakers from 30 years ago still in production that once cost under £5000 now costing over £15000 with no real change with factory tours showing the same processes done by low paid workers who can't afford the product they are building. For those of us who love retro looks and simply the old sound, fine the financial hit can be very worthwhile, but not if your looking for a new second hand purchase! It's a minefield full of overpriced tat and you really have to say no to some of the prices these sellers want. Wait it out, eventually the item or something will be there at a reasonable price. But the reality is the majority of old speakers are simply past it, dried glue joints on cabinets and drivers, weak magnets and out of spec components often having been replaced by out of spec second hand spares. Most old amplifiers are often blighted with transformer hum or other issues, and rarely do you see an old speaker without foam rot, screwdriver scars or blown tweeters. Many are listening with rose tinted ears and a minority will be having crossovers rebuilt by a skilled guy who is performing any tests.. For many of us who have lived with the same speakers for over 20 years, we just need to either learn to service this equipment ourselves or hope to find some reasonable cost refurbishment service. I am in that boat, I have Kef 107 needing bass drivers refoamed and a lot of TLC, I still use Rogers Studio 1 which with three kids over the years have taken some dings, and a pair of Linn Kan with pressed in tweeters are in the loft alongside the decimated remains of extremely hard done by pair of Kef 105.4 that will never ever be lookers again therefor never sellable. I want to get my old speakers working again, DIY is all I can afford, in fact time is often harder to come by these days, hopefully within the next couple of months I will get around to buying refoam kits for the woofers. I also need to get a decent soldering iron. I wish I had the luxury of a woodworking shop and the space to have these items laid out for occasional work when I have a free hour. But financially I would have to say with a heavy heart, most of these old speakers simply are not worth the cost and labour of refurbishing when you factor in the costs of the deteriorated speaker in the 1st place.
That is not a standard passive radiator on the Cadenza's, any idea what it is? I have a pair of Heathkit AS-9560, which feature twin driven b139's woofers, B200 mids and T27 tweeters, they have a quality and sound that far surpasses their age, cost me not a lot to buy and not much more to get to a good standard, I am tryint to get a pair of Lentek Studio Monitor, with the T27, Coles super, b110 and the b139 in TL cabs that are local, they want silly money for them though, But i could do the refurb quite easily and have some spares so hope i get them. I think it is still worth refubing speakers for the same reasons as yours, even if you can't refurb the to standard the maybe even some for of resto mod is a good way to which you do all the time. Love your vids, taught me som much about refurbing speakers that I not get commisions to do so.
So you spend 300 300 for a refurbishment 650 with the shipping so what can you get that will outperform a bc1 or something like bugger all nothing from any uk or Chinese manufacturer I've heard loads bought loads it took me a while to realise it wasn't me but trashy Chinese ect
Matt your work on my 44 cross overs and refurbishment of my tweeters have transformed my speakers into something I love to listen to and I can't imagine me buying anything new, if your upfront with your costs, make good profit and your client is willing to pay to obtain a reliable speaker with fantastic sound then speaker refurbishment must be the way to go, keep up the great work.
Vintage speakers and stereo equipment should never be thrown away! They were built in the golden times and those days will never come back.
The rebuild/calibration of the crossovers you do Matt, alone, is worth twice what you sell them for. In all probability, a £600 speaker from you is equivalent to a £2k + modern pair. Love watching you do the craft :)
Really sound advice, I’ve often thought about buying something from EBay and doing them up. I bought new Audio Physic Classic 3 on EBay, new HiFi shop, pretty much half price, really happy with them. I take your point about the throw away culture but I’m not sure the vintage speakers offered are always good value
I had my Ditton 44 cross over repaired/serviced by you ... best thing I ever did ... I've actually replaced the bass speakers with new but sympathetic drivers (I spent a long time trying to find a similar sounding speaker), because they kept failing ..I was worried they would sound terrible, but was pleasantly surprised with the result. Maybe even better to my ears? I'm enjoying them, and i guess that ticks the box for me..
Very interesting and mind provoking video that makes you wonder. My first proper pair of speakers were Wharfedale Lintons bought when I was 15 or 16 years old and I think I paid under £100 for them. Then i bought some Celestion Ditton 66's when i was 18ish and they were very good. 50 years later the Celestions are no longer with us, and the new wharfedale Lintone's now cost £1,099.00p so if I still had a pair of them would I get them refurbished for £600 ish, I think not. Why, because you need to refurbish the amps, cassette decks, turntables etc etc of the 70's to rekindle the thrill of 70's and then it becomes very impracticable, providing that is, you still have all that 70's gear. I honestly think 50 year old speakers can't compete with modern amplifiers and source components, but hey nostalgia is a very potent emotion and some people thrive on nostalgia.
P.s I very much doubt I'll still be here when my B&W 803 D3's are due for an upgrade or refurbishment🤣🤣🤣
Money is not in the equation. I had a beautiful pair of vintage Goodmans with shot tweeters. Found sympathetic replacements. The sound was 👌
I repaired a speaker today so it was worth it financially in a way. But sometimes even if I can repair it I don't want to spend the time on it ;p
If you love the speaker it can be worth getting it fixed.
If just wanting to sell then of course it goes on a case by case on what you can do or how much things will cost, time etc.
My "daily use" speakers are vintage. I listen to Lowther Acousta 115s. Mine were made between 1970 and 1973. I bought them twenty years ago for £295 from Ebay. The cabinets are used but presentable rather than mint. These are full range, so no crossover to worry about. They came with knackered drive units so I sent them back to Lowther as service exchange and upgraded at the same time. With re-cabling the total came in below £900. Not cheap perhaps but the current Lowther equivalent is about seven grand. I am very happy with my vintage version.
@@TheRealWindlePoons I know that model. Very nice. Glad you kept them going. Enjoy the music
Fond memories of the KEF Cadenza and their thunderous bass capability.....
Yeah those psb´s do remind me a bit of my old Snell J3`s from early 1990`s. I upgraded to E3`s and refoamed them some 10 years ago. Been thinking of recapping them too. Truly love the sound of them.
I'm really looking forward to seeing what you make of the PSBs too, but then I've got skin in the game!
Quite a lot of these older speakers are available for very reasonable money if you look around (the Cadenzas were £120 and the 104s were a little over £200), and if you fully expect to replace some of the crossover components. I think some people get rid of them because they don't sound as good as modern speakers, not realising that the caps have dried out. I can't imagine anyone buying them for resale, though; buy them because you love them, and want to return them to the condition of their glory days so you can enjoy them throughout your own.
Agreed. For some minor work they can be rejuvenated again. Make good and mend. Not throw away!
Well said. 👍🏻
I think the answer to the question is sometimes. Probably better to do it yourself if at all.
Bang on mate and well said keep up the great work
When I can I give away some of my old stuff.i don't have a lot of money but it's a great improvement over what that person has for example a Bluetooth speaker.a lot of the amps and speakers are 30+yrs old and are still sounding good.
Hey how to contact you? Have a pair of 44s here that deserve to have money spent on them. Would rather bring these back to life than get a second hand pair that may well need work. Thanks.
info@haycrossaudio.co.uk
Another major factor in refurbishment decisions is the high cost of shipping these days - not just for the parts but for the speakers themselves in acquiring or sending out for work (or getting a donor pair). Definitely one reason why mini-monitors seem to hold their value better on the used market.
Agreed. Good point
How about crossovers alone just for recap and such as I have a spare pair over crossovers for mine and was wondering could I just sent in them alone save on sending the speakers to as they are heavy the mids in them or 8" with 4 inch cone tweeter and a 12" mid woofer
A lot of people do just remove there crossovers and post them to me. That's all fine as long as they are capable of removing and refitting / reconnecting the crossovers. I've had to talk many a client through the process which takes up way to much unchangeable time
Most of restorations here in Brazil is not viable financially... humidity affect the structure, good spare parts very scarce and average people cannot afford with the costs.I did it for thirds and stopped due to complaints about budget and time spent on.
It's a hard one for many, the actual costs of getting any old equipment serviced has gone through the roof, as have second hand prices, even charity shops want hundreds for old non working speakers. Getting spares is problematic and there is no such thing as a simple refurb.
The second hand market for many items not just speakers is in effect killing the retro hifi market, the prices are just getting deranged considering the performance and lifespan.
There is litterally no point in spending £500 on a Kef 104ab that will still need some TLC when £500 can buy some pretty decent speakers today, Wharfdale Elisium or Heritages look great, yet looking at budget studio monitoring you find midfield and nearfield monitors from the likes of Kali, fully active, very acurate, and costing less than the old 104ab in some cases yet more accurate than anything in Richer Sounds under £1000.
I love the old 104ab, but hand on heart it cannot hold a candle to the capability and value of some of the new kids or later second hand speakers in the £500 bracket. A few years back mint 104ab were not far off the price of taking the family out, mint examples were around £150, how the hell did an old flower pot home passive radiator 2 way get to being priced at £500 lol.
I also have to state though, I see no reality in the pricing of many of todays speakers, Missions reisue of the 770 is frankly boggling, no way was the old one that great, no way is the new release worth £3300, just as its rather saddening to see speakers from 30 years ago still in production that once cost under £5000 now costing over £15000 with no real change with factory tours showing the same processes done by low paid workers who can't afford the product they are building.
For those of us who love retro looks and simply the old sound, fine the financial hit can be very worthwhile, but not if your looking for a new second hand purchase! It's a minefield full of overpriced tat and you really have to say no to some of the prices these sellers want. Wait it out, eventually the item or something will be there at a reasonable price. But the reality is the majority of old speakers are simply past it, dried glue joints on cabinets and drivers, weak magnets and out of spec components often having been replaced by out of spec second hand spares. Most old amplifiers are often blighted with transformer hum or other issues, and rarely do you see an old speaker without foam rot, screwdriver scars or blown tweeters. Many are listening with rose tinted ears and a minority will be having crossovers rebuilt by a skilled guy who is performing any tests..
For many of us who have lived with the same speakers for over 20 years, we just need to either learn to service this equipment ourselves or hope to find some reasonable cost refurbishment service.
I am in that boat, I have Kef 107 needing bass drivers refoamed and a lot of TLC, I still use Rogers Studio 1 which with three kids over the years have taken some dings, and a pair of Linn Kan with pressed in tweeters are in the loft alongside the decimated remains of extremely hard done by pair of Kef 105.4 that will never ever be lookers again therefor never sellable.
I want to get my old speakers working again, DIY is all I can afford, in fact time is often harder to come by these days, hopefully within the next couple of months I will get around to buying refoam kits for the woofers. I also need to get a decent soldering iron. I wish I had the luxury of a woodworking shop and the space to have these items laid out for occasional work when I have a free hour.
But financially I would have to say with a heavy heart, most of these old speakers simply are not worth the cost and labour of refurbishing when you factor in the costs of the deteriorated speaker in the 1st place.
That is not a standard passive radiator on the Cadenza's, any idea what it is?
I have a pair of Heathkit AS-9560, which feature twin driven b139's woofers, B200 mids and T27 tweeters, they have a quality and sound that far surpasses their age, cost me not a lot to buy and not much more to get to a good standard, I am tryint to get a pair of Lentek Studio Monitor, with the T27, Coles super, b110 and the b139 in TL cabs that are local, they want silly money for them though, But i could do the refurb quite easily and have some spares so hope i get them.
I think it is still worth refubing speakers for the same reasons as yours, even if you can't refurb the to standard the maybe even some for of resto mod is a good way to which you do all the time.
Love your vids, taught me som much about refurbing speakers that I not get commisions to do so.
There a very early pair of Cadenzas. The ABR wasn't on a chassis like the B139 they were mounted on a board. I think these are very early 70s versions
@@haycrossaudio5474 Well you learn something every day, thanks for sharing your knowledge, I will have to keep a look out for one.
GOOD INFO !!
So you spend 300 300 for a refurbishment 650 with the shipping so what can you get that will outperform a bc1 or something like bugger all nothing from any uk or Chinese manufacturer I've heard loads bought loads it took me a while to realise it wasn't me but trashy Chinese ect
just like the sound from the 70s b200 cones ,
the same happens with restoring vintage electronics...
Damn dude, don't you own a pair of shoes ?
🤣🤣🤣 I own lots of shoes but no where near as many as my missus 😛
Most shoes aren't that great for your feet anyway.