(1041) Review: Attacking the Bowley
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- The Bowley is a brand new lock designed and manufactured by the Bowley brothers up in Canada. It 's unique design is actually a combination of several technologies, both old and new, and culminate in an unpickable lock.
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![[653] Prototype Dual Fork Bowley Padlock (Model 543)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/D6vioIPVzM4/mqdefault.jpg)
The first generation Bowleys have been "claimed" to have been impressioned but the owner states more accurate information below. Turns out the second generations has had numerous improvements and is not susceptible to bumping/impressioning.
That is probably true, but heaven help you if the foil falls off inside the lock while in a locked door. $170 wasted. I think I'll give it a try though because all I have to do if the foil falls off and jams up the mechanism is pull out the pins and take it apart to clean out.
Here is the link if you needed.
www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=61799&hilit=bowley+lock
There is information on tolerances and info from Ryan Bowley himself. The impressioning might be located in the advanced section though.
I've been wanting to see a clear demonstration on this lock since the first go fund page!!!! THANK YOU BILL!!!!
Now that it's clear that it IS rather bump "proof" I would think impressioning is going to be the only way to defeat (minus a 3/8 in carbide tipped drill bit and a WHOLE bunch of misery) ... Unmounted, foil would be worth a try, especially if you use an adhesive foil or some super glue to try to prevent the foil from coming off..... If it were mounted however I wouldn't risk a foil impression for the same reason Bill gave, also given the steel key, you're not going to get any marks on it to do a traditional impression if you could get a key blank...
HOWEVER... Using the bump key that Bill made there COULD be other options.... You just have to go back in time a little bit... fitting since the warded design... (then again, as a locksmith who specializes in antiques, I MIGHT just be thinking every problem requires a hammer, if you catch my meaning, still here's my thoughts)
First thought just to effect an unlock would be wax (I use this technique to open old, but in good condition, lever locks with curtains and / or wards that make picking a PITA, and steel key blanks that don't mark) . Rough up the "bump key" a bit with some sandpaper, then carefully "fill" the cuts with wax, allow the wax to cool and clean it up with a sharp knife. Put the key in the fridge for an hour or so (a thermos of ice water works as well) then just check that the wax is well and truly stuck to the key and impression as usual. It'll usually get an unlock, and the wax won't prevent other options even if it chips off and the attempt fails. (worst case scenario, a pencil torch will clear out any wax without getting the lock hot enough to damage to door).
When it works, it works fast, and you get a decent idea of the cuts this way so you can prepare a blank, but it's definitely not a working key you can rely on for multiple uses.
The second, which would actually produce a working key (at least for a fair number of unlocks) works the same way, except instead of using wax, you use soft solder. Then you impression the key using a file, just like traditional key blank impressioning. (I STILL would prepare an actual blank for the customer in this case, as the solder will wear after heavy use, and then melt off the solder for reuse of the prepped key)
Hope this helps in defeating the INfamous (as in MORE than famous) Bowley... (if it does, can I get one of those keys, just in case I run into one? lol)
bosnianbill otherwise use the Hpc clinder eater an mill that dirty bastert out
No available adapter for the proper sheer line cut, and THEN you have tensioning once you've killed the pins.. and that's stainless.... Can the ole "rotary pick" do it?... With a carbide tipped bit, Yep... It's universal... Do I WANT to drill one out? Much like ASSA V-10s or Medeco M3s, but even MORESO.... NOPE!!!! lol
As a mechanical engineer (and lock agnostic), even I can still appreciate the solid thinking that went behind this design, *like all brilliant ideas its stupidly simple yet brutally effective.*
This little baby inspired me, I love this lock!
all brilliant ideas are not stupidly simple though
@@xl000 Maybe not all, but the very best are also simple.
Tyrone Ross couldn’t agree more, this lock is extremely impressive and the design and “advanced” tech really inspires. Truly a masterpiece
"We should make the keyway really curved to make it hard to get a pick in there!"
"We should put lots of security pins in so that it's difficult to tell what pins are set!"
Patrick: "We should take the lock... and push it somewhere else!"
@@xl000 That’s where you’re wrong. The mechanical engineers original statement is not false. I believe the misunderstanding is where in modern times marketing alone has gotten in the world deeply deeply misinformed and where they have stopped the media has picked up. Please give us a list of these things that are genius but are not simple my guess is they could be done simple however to give trademarks are registering a very complicated process is used... I’m just a blue-collar working guy but I know it’s simple to make a car that would run 1000 years but it’s very very fucking complicated to make one that’s Designed to run perfect for five years or 50,000 miles and then after that just completely become a lemon but then again those are great ideas that’s just marketing making you think it’s a great idea. Making people think they want this creature cut my comforts or think they want these accessories but most all that crap That’s designed into complicated bills are asked for to start with it’s just a way to get more money out of a product
With locks like this, just bypass them with a more classic method of forced entry: breaking the door or a window.
Such a beautiful lock though. I love the industrial design of it.
unless it is picked up for prison use, or safes.
Considering his tag line is "stay legal" I don't think anything other than the lock is important to him 😉
@@LSLencrypted I mean... I never thought that lockpicking is something cool to do in freetime other than criminal activities... but having picked it up myself it's actually really therapeutic and feels more like puzzles that require skill than anything...
Or do what Mr. Claus has been doing for centuries, sneeking in those chimneys!
@@LSLencrypted Not *that* important... Can already see he's done significant damage to it by bumping
I've wanted to watch you go up against this lock since its inception
* its
xl et'z
You mean "Conception" not inception
No, no I didn't
Inception comes from latin, incipere, which means 'begin' and later evolved into the modern english "inception" which still only means "beginning of" in any context, referencing any concept, activity, idea, or plan, or any other origin point in time.
If anything used the word incorrectly, it would more likely be the film's choice as a title, as the film does not at any point deal with a concept being generated, and always deals with the prospect of ideas coming from outside sources, which also were not the originators of them.
This is by far one of my favorite locks to see you disassemble. It really helps to understand how the lock works.
A fantastic lowtech solution to the security issues of normal tumbler locks. Fascinating channel.
I love these locks. Whenever I get a house I want to put these on it because of how aesthetic they are.
Try something for me, get 2 keys.. file them or mill them thinner to be the same width as the usual key.. the one key has the flag which engages the rear face to tension the lock. the second half has the deep cuts with the typical bumpkey pattern. then you "bump" the key you are just pushing the second half of the key to bump the pins while you are twisting on the first half.
I've been following Bowley and you for sometime, I'm finally sold and putting in my order, thank you sir.
Did you order some and if so, how do you like them?
@@youtwitfacemcgee9097 the dude never ordered I'm sure
hey, if I rip the babaco locks off my new to me work van(used to be a money transport, its an armored van), would you want them? They have some crazy keys, and don't seem like it could be something that would be easily picked.
Chubbysumo something tells me that he'd take a lock made of dry play doh and have fun with it
As long as it's not an antique Master Lock.
I'm keen to see this. Upvote OP's comment, guys.
TheTopMostDog exaxtly
He ever do locks like described here?
THANK YOU!
I watched the LPL work on these before..but I never really understood HOW the key actuated the lock. Until..you showed us with that simple piece of paper!! It was a great idea sir..thanks again!
I do enjoy both of your guys videos. A lot of difference actually between the way you two work..or attack a lock.
Keep up the good work sir!
This thing is an engineering marvel!! Brilliant!
A very clever lock design. In the bigger picture I think the leading technology is actually the key rather than the lock. One you've figured how to make such a convoluted key durable, the design options for the lock mechanism are considerably broader. But I have to wonder - if you insert your bump key and turn/push to the unlock position, could you bump the pins up using pulsating compressed air? I would think there is a small angle range where you can tension the barrel before the idler groove contacts the pins.
I would love to use that key as a necklace charm!
Nice job Boley and excellent patience Bill!
Congrats to the mfr and designers of the Bowley lock! It looked like a little bit of fun to make even with CNC.
Wow, such a simple elegant design. the lock looks gorgeous and it will be very hard to defeat.
I loved the music and Mr. bosnianbill sure tried to dance with the lock; it just wouldn't. I know nothing about lockpicking but got into watching videos like this and this one was very interesting to watch!
Lastly..thanks to you and the LPL you have shown me the locks for my new home!! They make the grade 3 of course which is what I will go with. FAR from cheap for sure..but if your going to use a lock..use one that actually works! Great video!!
Of course I meant level 1, NOT level 3! Thank you.😉
Great video as always Bill! When it seems you bump-opened the Bowley I've jumped right over the chair! I was really hoping you can do it! Anyway super gutting, I really liked to see the inner parts, much more clear than Bowley animation. Thanks for showing!!!
I love these videos where you present different interesting new locks!
If you can get a pipe that can fit in you can build a pick for it that uses wires to activate the pins. 5 pins so 5 stiff wires with the body of the pick itself giving tension.
The hardest part is leaving enough material for the turns and still letting the wires past.
You finally got your Bowley! Yay! :D
This locks was thought up outside the box. So I think we need a pick made up outside the box. Respect to this lock
I has been waiting for this video since the look was announced, is nice to see that they really put the extra effort to make a great product. And thanks to Bill for the video.
I hope you can try the impression method just to see if is possible as others have stated, but I get it if you don't want to risk damaging the look.
The nub you ground down is preventing the actuator from turning. I have figured out a way to get past all of their security with a bump key... I need to get one of these locks. You got past the tech with a bump key but needed the nub to turn the core...🤔🤔
Thanks Bill. The locksmithing world is changing so fast I can't keep up.
This is a next-level lock. Way above the rest.
Use a pick to rotate the sleeve and get into the dimple. After rotated and in place, drill a hole in line with the pins. Use that hole with picks to release the core.
They should make a padlock.
They did now
But then Master Lock will not be able to sell anything marked "high security" anymore.
@@NoahKuzel Well, they've been lying for years. Why stop now?
That bump key is a work of art. Did you say you'd give it away? I'd wear that around my neck, it's both beautiful and ironic - a bump key for an unbumpable lock.
A very surprisingly simple lock is so secure. Thats amazing.
I have pretty good idea how you could make a pick for this lock but it would require some precise machining. It would have a tensioner and five pick handles (one for each pin) machined to fit in the hole and around the sleeve, - you slide it in, engage the tensioner and then play with individual pins until you open it. Not sure how comfortable it would be but I believe it can be made sturdy enough to transfer sufficient feedback to be possible to pick.
So glad you finally tried this lock, Thank you
You have more unique video intros than individual videos. It's impressive.
Very cool lock. Thanks for sharing Bill
You are the man.....for real your really smart and a very good teacher .
Holy mother of all locks! Great show man that thing is genius!
Not only Mr Bowley invented secure and genius locks, they also elegantly designed. they like a piece of art, amazing. are the locks made in Canada or in china ?
This would make a great car ignition lock. If you've had anything to drink you can't operate the lock.
If you have one on your front door, it's going to be a bit of a pain when you come home from the bar, though.
For the pin that is the closest to the opening, there is no high spot on the bump key used in this video, hence only the deepest four pins actually were bumped 'all the way', I noticed. A small extra bit of steel would have to be welded on onto the key in that spot and filed into a similar form as is done for the deeper pins to get to bump that 5th one as well, I suppose
cnc, bro.
bought this lock during the kick starter, pretty happy with it
It can't be bumped because pushing the key in doesn't create any force on the pins. They're already in the top position, and pushing the key in just creates a space for them to fall.
hi Bill. someone told me you are never in videos because you set naked in your shop. is that true. I've heard judges do the same. cool show good job.
No, I'm not naked. I'm wearing some hair and a light coat of oil.
bosnianbill sweet. I guess. zorkbozz.
Vegetable, or motor? Great video. I am a complete newbie here. looks like you could drill a hole above the lock in the door, take a sharp bent sharp pick, push that brass cover back and access the pins, springs. Not sure if that would help get inside and bypass it or not.
m butts i thought the same
The point is to pick it quietly, and without evidence that it's been picked. If you can drill a hole you might as well just run a slide hammer through it and defeat it in one big loud ass thump.
Unless Bowley do a widow lock it's only as good as your door or house hold security as a whole.
Neat lock but not the overall answer.
Thanks for sharing Bill 👍😎😘😘
I've never seen a window that had an actual lock. They all latch from the inside. If you want in, you pry it until the latch breaks, or break the glass. If you want to keep people out, you put bars on it or live on a higher floor.
SomeDumbGuy you don't live in the U.K. then 😂😂😂
Most windows will have locks (waffers and rubbish,but locks never the less).
My point was the lock is great but not the end of your security needs when it comes to your property 😘🤔🤔
where the problem is with your bump key is the length of the "nub" that you trimmed and chamfered. if you had a way to make a heavily sprung nub that would defeat the tension in the lock but still allow you to bump it then you should be able to open it
there's an issue with trying to bump this lock. If there's a long pin, it will be set high when you're trying to plunge into the actuator notch. The bump key needs to spring back to allow room for long pins, but when you're deep enough to hit the actuator, you'll be near the high point of the bump shoulder.
You need a tool to apply tension at the actuator notch, not at the key handle.
Fine choice for the musical interludes!
This lock is reinventing very old lock technology. I've seen safe keys from the 1800s that have similar cut out features, suggesting very similar curved shrouding inside the lock. Are some Bramah locks made this way?
Ok this is the better design I was talking about in your Kronos lock picker video.
i had to watch just because of that thumbnail of those badass looking keys. great video well done
that a really genius fantastic lock ...never expect this kind of work there :x
Bosnianbill if you check the comments for the bowley lock video that lockman28 put up (the 18 min video) a user by the name of Geahk Burchill has some interesting ideas and illustrations on a way to pick this lock. You may want to check that out.
Not sure what the dimensions of the key are (like diameter of the shank), but first tool idea that comes to mind is a pick & form tool. The keycuts could be cut into a steel sheet and another slim sheet slid in with the key that you can then use to test a pin once tensioned. Tedious to open, but doable.
Never thought I would get to see the bowley on here. Very intense and clever lock. So I am guessing if you see this lock you would need to spread the door frame unless it too is metal [or surrounded by brick] Would be a bad time if you lost your key.
Looks like something from the workshop of everyone's favorite carpenters. Saying "it can't be picked" is just asking for special tools to be made to defeat it.
If no one mentioned I'd try a lead faced keyblank for Impressioning. The old "Hamilton Company" lead faced blanks were amazing!
My thoughts is that a bump could have worked, but the pin locations would have had to have been offset based on how much the actuator was cut back. As an engineer, I love the precision machining aspect of it.
I really love the mechanics of this lock!
Crazy idea, but how about make an airway inside the key with exit ports right under the pins and pump pulses of high pressure air into it?
It may simulate the bump force while the key is locked to the notch.
Potential "royal suck" for anyone owning this lock is that any person with a scribe can lock them out. Rotate the round part a small section at a time using the scribe through the key hole until pins fall into the slot and the lock is disabled until taken apart.
So could anyone with a drop of superglue on other locks.
thanks. good to know that they thought of this.
Every lock should use this design. The design that was waiting to be invented for 100's years.
Patented I hope by bowley. It would prevent many thefts and burglaries. Price needs to come down, say to 1/3 price? Mass production in China
Good job Bowley.
I see this is a bit old now... But have you considered a two-part bump key? - One "lower half" that will hit the index point and allow you to tension, the other part, the 'top half" is the bump key - since it's a steel key I think it might be strong enough to do this. one key ground so you have the point/index and half the round shaft - other key ground to the other half of the round shaft and the bump... they slide in together, push in the index and tension, then bump away!....
How about adding a spring and pin to the end of the bump key, to maintain contact with the slot in the back of the lock body, during the bumping process? That way, one still has the contact needed to tension the lock, while bumping the pins up.
I think you should be able to open it destructively by drilling out the sheerline and then using any outher bowley-key as tensioner to open the lock
Finally a lock has defeated bill!!!! Just kiddding, it's good that there's atleast one lock!
Maybe if you soldered a stiff shirt spring on the tip. Where you ground down the part that sticks out. It might press in enough and allow you to bump it.
Maybe make a custom pick that looks similar to the key design(one that goes out and then comes back in like a U) and you would pick by essentially doing the opposite actions that you would normally do. It would be trivial to pick the lock if you can make a pick that can get to the pins. you could try to cut one of the keys to where just the bottom and the actuator remains and that could act as the tensioner potentially.
What a beautiful lock
I want one and I know I will never see one yet I am entirely that you made that you made this video.
thanks Man.
The best security is the one you see yet you can't go around it and that is the most effective lock based security. Everyone knows the inside of this lock yet due to the simple blocking paths the lock is devastating to pick.
Wouldn't it be more effective to bump it from the top-down directly above the pins? That way the spring tension wouldn't matter as you really need to overcome the strongest spring and the others would simply stay down longer?Granted- this can only work when the mock is not installed.
what about a hollowish stiff tension bar with a flexible pick setup within it? Don't think those exist, it would have to be custom made, but that is the only way i could see to tension this and get access to the pins with a pick, though you wouldn't have much of a feel for the pins.
If you drill the keyhole in the round area of the keyhole, is it not possible to remove the inner ward (Sleeve) thus leaving the pins exposed to be picked ... ?
could making a u shaped wire be used to rock the pins? like a city rake but bent?
Starting to think that you are bumping it wrong. Need a key cut to all the deepest cuts, no extra fancy modification to the shoulder or tip. Just cut all the way down, then insert rotate 180 and push in like normal. Now instead of trying to bump inwards with the key, note that all the pins have now fallen. Could it then could it be bumped rotationally by holding the key fully into the lock and using some kind of flipper to apply the rotational bumping? We're not using the key to bump the pins, we'd be using the sleeve that the pins normally rest on to bump the pins. Would that work??
Actually we may need to thin the tip down a little to allow the sleeve to be rotated a little before rotating the actually cylinder. Depending on how much the tips needs to be thinned, may need to have both a clockwise and a counterclockwise bump key.
Would picking it be out of the question? I'd think that you could make a turning wrench that's the same general shape as the key (that J-shape, possibly with a point or a chisel tip), use picks for the teeth of it, and if you didn't have a point/chisel-tip on the turning wrench you'd just slide something in WITH the wrench to hit that. A two-wrench & one pick operation. Maybe the first wrench is bent or thinned a bit to allow the other one to get past.
DATZ ONE AWESOME DESIGN AND LOCK !!!
Nice tight spaces and extra moving parts. So what happens when the insides get impregnated with dirt and grease build up from oils from people's fingers? Brass and stainless steel will help against corrosion but not necessarily from dirt and build up.
I guess that'll show up in 5-6 years as the dirt builds up in these locks.
Happy retirement Bill, you haven't beat this lock yet, but even the sun has its spots 😉
When the brass cylinder slot turns up to 12:00 -- if the key isn't there, will the pins drop into the cylinder? If the key doesn't have uncut spots between the cuts, will the pins drop down and make the key un-removable?
Try reaching in with a wire and just spin the brass cylinder with no key.
from what I saw, your bump key was flawed when you ground the tip off. you did manage to bump all the tumblers but the key was missing the steel to turn the bolt.
did you try your non-tumbler modifications to the key before grinding it all the way down to see if those modifications themselves are preventing the key from engaging? the end bit may not be going into the hole correctly to engage the pindrop or turning ability?
also, if it was a good cutback, then it would also shift the pinhole areas back just as much. meaning you were basically putting the pins at the peaks rather than the valleys at the end of the bump.
Impressively difficult to pick or bump, but what if the door settled and started to bind the bolt? It looks like forcing the key would ream the back of the cylinder, perhaps making a ramp, and render the lock inoperable.
If you didn't grind the tip i think it might have worked. Cause as you said, if the tip doesn't fit into the groove, only the inner part will turn, and not the whole cylinder.
EDIT: I think you got the pins, cause you were able to turn the key. But i suspect you didn't hit the groove in the back to turn the whole cylinder.
how about a pneumatic bump key using liquid or airpressure. 3 sandwhiched layers fused together with a pressure inlet on the handle. this way you can reach the actuator, close off the gap to the keys serration and just fill that section with a pressurized medium thus moving the pins into position and still being able to turn the key. maybe a fringe idea but in theory should be possible
There’s always a way to pick it!
Sometimes a lock gets designed that does it's job. I believe this Bowley is one of them.... LOL
My first thought of getting through it is... take a key that doesn't fit and see if it destroys the notch in the cylinder, destroys the pins, or destroys the key first. It's a big fucking lock we can shove something into essentially, my first thought is destructive in a way that will force the core to turn.
Of course, my first instinct being 'destroy it' to get through it, means they did alright.
Wow... Very nice video! Thanks for posting it.
looking at the way it's made, i wonder if drilling directly through the keyhole into the brass would get you anywhere? It might just release the flat torsion bar and allow a bypass.
After viewing this several times, a 3-4mm drill ( i.e. a short flute cobalt steel spotting drill ) will be guided by the warding sleeve directly into the centre of the brass back. The is only a few mm of brass before the drill will grab the torsion bar , shear off that little locking pin and twist the cap undone. The drill would probably twist the dead latch open for you!
Bowley needs to counter bore the back of the brass tumbler and fit an anti drill bearing ball .
Bill
P.S. come on Bill ! you've criticised other pick proof lock for their poor physical security, you can't be a lock lab unless you test this ;-)
I don't know if anyone has said this yet, but it looks like a 1/2 inch piloted core drill would allow you to remove the inner warding. Then rotated the outer warding up to align with the pins, allowing the key pins, drivers and springs to fall out of the bible. Then simply insert a tool to engage the recess and rotate the lock. But at $170 per lock, I guess the (honest) world will never know.
Okay so heres an Idea of how to pickthe lock. So first you need some sort of sticky material. Next you need to wrap that around a circle. Attach a rod and a small grip onto the end of that circle and make it small enough to fit in the bottom of the lock. Turn the circle so it turns the inner casing. one you have it lined up then you could go at the pins like a normal lock? *I dont know how you would apply tension to the pins* Or you could just try to do something else with the pins.
no, because, look again, the steel shield is welded to the front. its the internal brass sheild that is loose. there are two. so even if you rotated the brass, the steel one wont move.
The 'awning' is part of the outer (silver) cylinder. Correct?
What about using 2 half-thick keys: 1 the pick, and 1 the tensioner (with the actuator tip)?
However, the pick would have very limited in/out movement.
Would using a pick with five 'points' be doable, where you'd be first trying to pick ANY pin, then ANY remaining pin, and so on until you picked all of them? (It sounds more like a bump key, or maybe a rake, than a pick.)
First the biggest groove on the key isn't the minimum it's for the 0 lift pin so you would need to make 5 different bump keys for all 5 possible 0 lift positions and not all the way down to the 0 lift position.
Second, the bump pins would need to be offset forward since you filled down the tip
Third you're not understanding the mechanism in order to engage the pins the key needs to be all the inserted so you can't bump it while inserting, only when removing, so you'd have to invent a way to bump the pins into position you wouldn't have the key all the way back so it wouldn't engage when if it were bumped.
You would need a super tough material with moving parts in order to pick that!
Muy interesante este mecanismo de cilindro Bowley. Parecer ser muy seguro. Sobretodo con esa carcaza protectora que oculta y protege los dos cilindros. Ingenioso el mecanismo.
Have you considered just smashing the window and going in that way? It seems like an easier way to get past this lock.
Can't pick it, but can you can annoy someone who's not mechanically inclined by rotating the inner sleeve so the key won't go in until it's realigned as sort of a DOS attack?
Maybe a hole saw drill bit to pull the core out the front. Or atleast give access to the pins.
one of your best videos, thx
That key is pretty thick. Could you make a special pick that is a tensioner whit movable parts for every pin? XD