A big theme of ASOIAF is that characters actions and motivations are based on lies, misunderstandings, and incomplete info (Catelyn's hatred of Jon). So I'm hoping that the writers play with that in the show.
No, she was not right to fear Jon. It was her humiliation of "...Ned brought his bastard to Winterfel and called him son for all to see" that drove her JEALOUSY of Jon, and later her fear that he would turn on his brothers and sisters(an unfounded fear as Jon was a baby). That's Direct from Cat's pov. Her cruel treatment of Jon was no secret to anyone at Winterfel. Calling him by his name for the 1st time when he's 14? What did she call him before that moment? BASTARD would be my guess. She has a distinct disdain for bastards and and folk lower born than she is. It's all throughout her pov chapters and other's pov when she is there. It began when she was a child playing with Lysa & Peter. Her memories of that time prove it. Cat was so notorious for treating Jon so horribly, that the first thing Robb asked Jon after his heartwenching goodbye to Bran was, "Did you see Bran?", when Jon says yes, he then asks with concern on his eyes " My mother?", and because Jon was no one for her to fear (had she opened her heart and let go of her jealousy and prejudices((get to know Jon)) she would have known that), he lies to Robb to save face for Cat in Robb's eyes and answers, "She was very gracious". Even though she was nothing but vitriol to him when he said his goodbyes to Bran. No. There are no excuses for her. She was following her own prejudices. Her opening lines are about how little she thinks of Northerners and their ways and their Gods. She's a typical conniving, prejudiced Westerossi Sothron Lady. Imho. Can you tell I don't her lol
When you talk about biases, it's also worth noting that Gyldane began writing the book after the Greyjoy rebellion as a gift for King Robert. A gift to the new king would show the previous dynasty less favourably in order to remain in his good graces.
@@kerrychristensen7204 The framing of the book is that it was written for Robert, then Robert died, then it was hastily dedicated to Joffrey, then Joffrey died, and so it passed to Tommen. There's a place in the book where Yandel dedicates it to his king, but both Robert and Joffrey's names are crossed out and replaced with Tommen's.
Even without taking any conspiracy into the equation, it's really well worth pointing out, as this video does, how regionally concentrated the influence at court was at this time. Having all of this Oldtown influence be so well-represented should make us wonder what the rest of the realm's lords must think of the king's council.
I immediately thought Aemon's death was suspicious, even though I did not piece it together like this. Oh he got shot by accident while they were trying to kill someone else who is much less important, as Varys would say: "What a tragic turn of events."
@@psevdhome "Indeed." Varys laid a soft hand on the queen's sleeve. "You have a mother's heart, and I know His Grace loves his little sweetling." I found the simpering smile description, it's earlier in this ACOK chapter. And it's Tyrion...should have known, Ned Stark ain't using words that big lol. RIP
@@hopedixon2133 I do love that level of detail. Like how different characters interact completely differently. Varys acts to Cersei as if she is the only one that he is honest with, to trick her into thinking that he's not up to anything more. She's honestly stupid enough to believe she knows all, so he lets her think that. Varys does the same to Tyrion, except he sees that Tyrion knows he's up to more, but Varys confuses him regarding what that is, so that even though Tyrion mistrusts Varys, he can't do anything until he finds out what exactly. Varys even says that Tyrion could not "get rid" if him. It's where the famous mer-man theory comes from. Tyrion threatens to throw him into the sea and Varys just shrugs and says, "you would be disappointed with the result I'm afraid".
@@psevdhome Sorry, I totally meant to reply back earlier because I love this idea of Lord Varys, the Sea Spider! I guess I never really considered it but he certainly seems like a skinchanger of some type to me. I do want to linger a moment on Varys...he NEVER gets enough attention. Cersei does know that she cannot trust Varys completely (she confesses this to either Tyrion or Jaime) so to me, I interpret this as Varys has betrayed Cersei in some way personally as in telling on of her secret's...my guess is he is the one who told the Small Council that Cersei bore her brother's bastards, thus apparently launching our story with Jon Arryn's investigation and death. I'm pretty sure Preston gathered that Littlefinger was the probable instigator but I would never doubt Varys. Who knows for sure, but that would be my guess. I also think quite a bit about the relationship of Varys and Illyrio Mopatis; are they really the business partners and friends as they presented to be? I accept their friendship as youths but I think deep down, both men are not truly loyal to anyone but themselves. I don't say this as a criticism but they obviously prioritize their well-being and status at the cost of others. As much as Varys claims he does it "for the realm"...nah bish, you do it so you can remain affluent to rearrange who you have in power. He told Tyrion he would absolutely lie to save his own skin, and I believe him. So two men such as this...can they really rely on each other? At some point, the urge to sell out the other or bring down the other would be immense I am sure, and unless I just cannot read these men, I do see their fate headed there...or has already been there but we are unaware. Varys is so good at disguising (*cough*skinchanger*cough) that he can fool almost everyone and Illyrio wears more rings (AKA allegiances) than Tom Brady (or so I assume from Superb Owl wins). This are all signs pointing to "I am not team player"...or at least how it could be interpreted. I will say, one strike against the mer-man theory is the supposed stink; Varys does not stink...or if he does, he is able to hide it to a considerable agree. Granted, he does stink when he visits Ned in the Black Cells but later he gets lilac- scent (Tyrion?) descriptions so he must be well-stocked if mer-men really do stink, as good ol Dick Crabbe said. God, what a magnificent character. I mourned his death with Brienne. P.S. For Women's History Month, our librarian is collecting "empowering" photos of us ladies at the school, and because I am a total jackass, I am going to photoshop my face onto Varys body and put, "(Em)Power resides where (wo)Men believe it resides, no more and no less" just so I can be Varys in a school poster. I already cosplayed as Ser Brynden Rivers for this year's yearbook so why not??
When I read Fire and Blood and learned how Aemon died, my radar of suspicion immediately went off. I've long held a belief that house Hightower is the final arbiter of power in the realm via all their proxies and lesser houses. The declaration of Aegon I as king was a blow to their control and the removal of dragons became an immediate goal so they could restore that control. Aemon needed to die in order to sow the seeds of a succession crisis. And that's what happened.
How is this a Hightower plot is just some Randy’s from myr i. Hate how preston doesn’t go into the myrish bloodbath or this guys getting kicked out or how weird is that Tarth fell so quickly aka tarth may have been incompetent
_The Silmarillion_ is actually Tolkien's _main_ work, the heart of his literary and cultural project, it's not a mere appendix. _The Hobbit_ and _The Lord Of The Rings_ are the works that support _The Silmarillion_ (even though _The Lord Of The Rings_ can be read as the New Testament to _The Silmarillion_ , that means something much more than a mere curiosity, it's the thematic resolution of all the problems established in _The Silmarillion_ , working as the Apocalypse/Revelation of Middle Earth). The difference between Tolkien's _The Silmarillion_ and Martin's _The World Of Ice And Fire_ and _Fire And Blood_ is that Tolkien is emulating sacred texts and epic poems: the Bible, Homer (ex: Gondolin is Tolkien's version of Troy), Dante, Milton, Chaucer, _Bewoulf_ , _The Eddas_ etc . Martin on the other hand is emulating history books, especially the biased ones, the ones that today we can read as literary value instead as source of information, like Herodotus, Plutarch, Titus Livius.
@@J.lind_2012 he died before he could, his son did the best to honor, complete and publish his work. There's a lot of investigation and linguistic work behind it. If you want to rant like a teenager for not finding the cultural richness in the book go ahead, don't be angry, no one stops you to do so.
Taming Vhagar seems like a pretty significant accomplishment on Baelon's part. Interesting that it isn't mentioned when listing the princes' accomplishments. In a way it makes Gyldayn's statement of them being similarly accomplished more reasonable (maybe there are other things he doesn't mention?). You'd think he didn't mention it because it's a dragon related accomplishment, but he did mention Baelon's success in dragon warfare.
I do wonder what that entails to make it an accomplishment, taming a dragon that is older and more powerful. I am not saying it isn't at all, I just am unclear on what dragonriders really DO to bind a dragon to them. From Preston's analysis, he believes that genetics has a great deal to do with that ability, and I concur with that as well. It probably is a lot like warging; an individual has the special X or two but the gene still needs to be activated somehow. Preston's idea is trauma (think all the Stark kids obviously lol), close proximity to the animal, and telepathy. Why do dragons choose who they chose beyond those requirements? Why do they choose anyone at all? We know the intelligence of ravens, crows, and wolves because they are real creatures for us but dragons? They are portrayed across the board from simple and primal to god-like across literature, so who knows? Like I said, you may totally be right that it is an accomplishment (and it makes sense why humans perceive it that way) but is it that or as Professor McGonagall would say, "...sheer, dumb luck"? Lol it could always be both.
@@hopedixon2133 Even if it is just luck, I think there's a good chance it would be perceived as an accomplishment, or at least as something worthy of particular note. It's been a while since I've read this stuff, so I'm not sure, but there might have been other examples in which taming the most powerful dragon alive was considered worthy of note (possibly when Aemond tamed Vhagar?). It could very well just be something that makes sense to me but has no clear cut evidence. Although, if Baelon does have the exceptionally "strong" genes or telepathy needed to tame Vhagar it might make the Oldtown conspiracy to make him or his descendants king a double-edged sword: he's preferable to his pro-Velaryon brother but he could bring with him strong dragon genes. But this is a whole other complicated matter, it's unclear where this Oldtown conspiracy theory is going exactly.
I never truly understood how deep scheming of oldtown block was, your video once again helped me to open my eyes lit bit more. Excellent work just like always, Preston.
To me it’s kind of bullshit. Sure, some maesters have their agendas, but saying than the “maester conspiracy “ as in, the idea that all or most worked on such a thing is even 50% legit is dubious at best.
@@fandemusique4693 Lol I mean that's fine, I don't think it's 100% in ASOIAF but that's what I find most endearing. The author is trying to trick and surprise me, but that only makes me speculate more. Knowing these things about GRRM's writing style is why Preston makes so much sense; they're out there because George is out there. And it's suspicious that the Hightowers are so absent from the story despite historically being far more influential...they still have the power and scope to do if they wish, they have many resources. Even if you don't think they want to kill Targaryens, Maesters definitely routinely spy on their lords and manipulate them for either their own agendas or presumably the Citadel's. But ya, I get if someone doesn't believe it, but I like this theory.
@@hopedixon2133 the modern Hightower in asoiaf are supporters of the Tyrell, the House Tyrell is at the peak of it's power, and the Hightower and Redwyne are it's main supporters.
@@fandemusique4693 I know that...but they aren't in the story as in our POV characters rarely interact with ANY of them...I can only think of Alerie Hightower, and her description is so basic. We have no insights into their house dynamic like we do Tyrell...we even have more on Redwynes. But Hightowers and Velaryons remain elusive, and we wonder where their allegiances will end up, especially since they are the main houses behind the Blacks and Greens with the Targaryens. A lack of detail can point to possible revelations in the future in this story.
When Jaehaerys threatens the Sealord of Braavos, (if memory serves, I haven't reread the book in years) he literally flew to the city and made some not so veiled comments about using his dragons against them. I've always considered that the point at which the Braavosi decided that the dragons needed to die and the Targaryens needed to be heavily weakened. They were not about to have a repeat of Valyria on their hands after all. I think that the faceless men are working in the background of the story past that point just like the Maesters and most of the weird and unexplained deaths of Jaehearys sons are due to them. I don't have anything to base that off on, but maybe you'll find some evidence for it over your analysis.
I haven't read the book in a while either but I believe it was Septon Barth doing the veiled threats when he was trying to retrieve the dragon eggs that were stolen. I think that the Braavosi threatened him back with using the Faceless Men as well which is why I'm hesitant to definitively say that Braavos tried to wipe out dragons.
I have a theory that you actually only have 2 sides. Fire and Ice not being those 2 sides. The people don't all know what they are fighting against, they are being played like puppets to dance for the 2 sides. Grrm said we won't see gods but I feel like the children and rhllor followers are the 2 sides. I don't know how he'll work it but Braavos will be on the side of the children and the old gods. Mel will end up leading the fiery hand to fight against the children. I don't know where Dany and Jon end up on this scale but I was high when I came up with it and usually spot on when high.
The War of 5 Kings was a prelude to Planetos War One, a proxy battle mainly between Braavos, the North and the Rhoynish (all sorcerous) against more retrograde Free Cities like Pentos and Volantis and the slave-mercenary industrial complex and toxic Andal patriarchy. Dany will die as she lived, as a pawn in larger schemes. Sansa's blood through Aegon might inherit the throne, after much is settled, though that throne might be in Harrenhal and Bran the White or whomever might jump into them anyway.
I wondered this as well. The argument against is that the faceless men probably could have ended the Targaryan line. If this is true why did some Targaryans survive?
@@patrickdematosribeiro1845 so the economy of braavos entirely depends on trade, and they probably figured that creating a power vacuum with all the targaryens dead would lead to a lot of war à la the seven kingdoms before the targaryens. They probably figured that a dragonless targaryen dynasty could ensure stability so that trade can go on and the iron bank can continue lending and collecting loans
I think this is the series I've been looking forward to the most. The Dance of the Dragons being such a pivotal point in the history of Westeros is beyond question in my opinion. The slaughter of so many dragons by other hostile dragons plays so well into the hands of the Oldtown Trio as I like to think of them that it just feels like an engineered conflict. This civil war was in a lot of ways the beginning of the end for the Targaryen family. Not literally, but politically and in terms of influence as well with the dying population of dragons. The knock-on effects are just too many to count, really. It potentially changed Westeros from a dragon paradise to what we see in the main books. I'm so hype!
Well, yes, it's kinda fascinating that Targaryens somehow managed to rule for another 150 years after that without dragons. What's even more fascinating: Targaryen rule after losing dragons kinda was even more peaceful. They even managed to finish their Conquest after losing dragons!
@@iliaponomarev1624 Prior to the Dance, Targaryens had ridable dragons, a superweapon no other kingdom in Westeros could effectively combat save Dorne. After the Conquest, having dragons meant Targaryens could rule as absolute monarchs and god help any rebels cause they'd get the business end of the dragons. After the Dance, the Targaryens had to change tactics: they lost their superweapon, so they had to hold things together through diplomacy. Now the Great Houses had legitimate clout in questioning the former absolute monarchs, with the realm becoming far more decentralized. The power of the crown was no longer absolute so yes, I think it fair to say the Dance was the beginning of the end for the Targaryen dynasty which has been completely usurped in the main story.
It's so awesome, Preston. But I am quite afraid the series won't adress any historical ambiguity, nor hidden conspirations. Unfortunately. I think they'll take written sources at face value.
What I'm wondering is how much Jaehaerys was on this Oldtown conspiracy thing. Like, did he really trust his Hand and Grand Maester or was he trying to keep peace through surrendering some power to them? Because in some parts it feels like he was a reasonably smart politician, in some other parts it feels like he was totally an Oldtown doormat.
Lol. I love your phrasing of "Oldtown doormat" but you know it is possible the answer is more complex than that...it could even be both. Let's consider one example from Preston's own wheelhouse; Sansa and Littlefinger Once Sansa transforms into Alayne Baelish in the Vale, Myranda Royce is intent on learning her secrets. She obviously thinks Sansa and Littlefinger are in a relationship, most likely sexual, but their relationship is not that easy to describe. I'm sure Littlefinger wants it to be sexual (ew) but I don't think he really cares about the well-being of Sansa like her mother or father would, she is still a tool to him, a pawn. She has been pretty oblivious to his manipulation of her, and is grateful that he saved her from Joffrey. I don't think she realizes still in the released TWOW chapter that she is his pawn BUT she does know he is a great manipulator of others. She saw him push her aunt to her death...but he also saved her literal life from the crazy bitch. She isn't (hopefully) attracted to him in a sexual way but she feels like she owes him probably and can't refuse when he kisses her on the lips. God, he's such a pedophile, and GRRM has SO many of them, I hate it lol. My point is that both feel conflicting feelings for each other; Littlefinger wants Sansa (ugh) but he's also using her in his struggle for whatever he wants, which is...unknown (probably power) lol but also feels somewhat protective of her simply because she favors Cat (god I hope he dies). And Sansa feels obligation to him for saving her from both Joffrey and Lysa, keeping her "safe" (she's highborn so she's been taught to rely on men to take care and protect her), he flatters her (GROSS), and he does appear (to her) to be giving her all she deserves and more. She still thinks she's going to live a fairy tale life after all that has happened to her...poor Sansa, she's so wrong probably. GRRM loves the heart in conflict...so my guess was perhaps Septon Barth was both a spy and friend of King Jaehaerys. Maybe he was supposed to kill Jaehaerys even, but I think he would refuse, but still passed on his secrets to the Faith. Think of how Varys' may genuinely like Tyrion but he still sells him out to Cersei and Tywin because he had to appear useful, or so he says. I'm really not so sure about Grand Maester Elysar; he was apparently sharp-tongued and opinionated (sounds like Haldon Halfmaester lol) but he too could have felt the same way, who knows. It is completely possible these men felt many different, opposing thoughts about each other, especially at different points or events in life. You can never really know what others may think...unless you're telepathic lol.
The unreliability of Fire and Blood and filling in the gaps for yourself have been what I said when I started reading the book. The whole thing is a history but, you're given half truths and speculations and you have to choose which one you believe. Its a great way to write. It feels like reading an old History book that has bias written as fact.
Ever since I've watched Genetics of Dragons and Maester Videos I hoped something like this would show up on your channel once again. Every part is a delight.
4:30 "he cannot be trusted, no more than I can" Did he just compare himself to a King? was that some Aegon invasion reference, that they are all on team Targaryen , or did Marwyn partially confess to having more megalomaniacal motives than we thought ?
He meant Aemon couldn't be trusted because he would take the study of magic seriously and potentially try to bring back the dragons. Marwyn has that same motive.
Alternatively, he could also be claiming that he is OF the same blood as Aemon...a Targaryen. I mean we have NO idea who this Marwyn really is, and in a world where people probably can use telekinesis to change their entire appearance, I can't rule out anything based on they way they look. I mean, if the glass candle is "magic", he seems to have one lit, so he may have powers ESPECIALLY if he believes he does. "Power resides where men believe it resides, no more and no less." I still think it would be fucking hilarious if a glass candle was a lamp and a light bulb because they'd rediscovered electricity lol but probably not.
Not really. The only connection that he was attempting to establish was that they are both untrustworthy to the citadel. It's for similar reasons. Aemon was a Targaryen, while Marwyn is a conspiracy theorist and an actual mage who wants to bring dragons back. In other words, they are both on the side of the dragons.
@@dustingaethje1332 being on the side of the dragons could just mean he is biding his time until he could get a dragon, everyone else Wants to be kind in this series, why not him?
"This will be a rigorous line-by-line analysis, so be prepared for a long ride. We will have many, MANY, parts to this!" Why do you think I came all this way?
I am so excited, I adore the Dance of the Dragons/Jahearys reign, so many seeds were sown and so much political intrigue. Cannot wait for the rest of this series !!
The ambiguous nature of The Blacks and The Greens is what makes it such a fun read! I love that you're laying this out in a more streamlined timeline! I'm nervous about the show coming in and stomping all over my head canon haha
This Is INCREDIBLY good work!! Can't wait to sink my teeth into this playlist. From what I've heard of the first episode of HOTD, the maesters subtly moving things or having sketchy motives WILL be present throughout the show and I'm very excited to see how it all plays out
I'm hoping that the writers learned their lesson, after having seen D&D become the most hated men in the history of television (at least since Bill Cosby), and will do their damn jobs and write from the book!
@@neuralmute The hate is overblown, is not their fault the books are incomplete. After watching WOT and the LOTR teaser, there are more stupid showrunners running around with completed source material..
I don't think what happened with got will happen in hotd. We know the character arcs and plot points. The story is itself an act of political intrigue. Both political drama and battles needs to coexist for a civil war to work.
@@ianvera4299 yeah but you shouldn't really make excuses for their gross incompetence. Look how they butchered the Dorne plot. They had everything to make an ending that made a bit of sense, yet they still failed in that aspect. They lacked oversight, so the writing suffered. Hotd has multiple writers working together. Hopefully, bad ideas would be filtered out due to checks and balances.
I think you skipped one major reason why Rhaenys is skipped over by the old King… It’s because his dynasty House Targ would stop being kings if she inherited.
Oh man, I just found your channel but I LOVE this! All the little inconsistensies and grey areas... You, good sir, have a talent. Count me in for as many parts as you need!
Oh man, this is the series I needed right now! Working 12 hour days and it gets boring, but listening to theories about ASOIAF--especially ones written so well--is a god send 🤙🏾
At the risk of pedantry, just want to point out that the Silmarillion was published as though it were a literal account but was not written that way. The materials which Christopher Tolkien compiled into the published Silmarillion were taken from numerous sources attributed to different in-world authors (like Fire & Blood), mainly Rúmil and Pengolodh, and later compiled by an in-world translator, either Bilbo or Ælfwine. These accounts disagreed in places, offering different perspectives and lending an air of historicity. Tolkien was a philologist, so he was delighted by this sort of thing. Cristopher Tolkien chose to erase these nuances and smooth out the narrative into a cohesive whole for a number of legitimate editorial reasons, though he later admitted in The History of Middle Earth series, that this may have been a misstep. That series contains many of these variants on the Silmarillion stories. While some are definitely just earlier drafts, others seem intended to have been published alongside one another. Tolkien scholar Dr. Corey Olsen talks about this extensively in his own series of seminars and line by line readings. Anyway, I too am delighted by this sort of thing, so this source-critical series is much appreciated. Good work, and thanks.
"Why would the Myrish scouts have crossbows?" Because crossbows are THE Myrish weapon! If you want to assassinate a prince and blame the Myrish, you should use a Myrish weapon. If the Myrish known for using crossbows and daggers (which they are!) killing the prince with a longbow or a battleaxe would be would be very suspicious. You don't need to question the use of crossbows. You SHOULD question the way prince Aemon was hit! The bolt was stuck in his throat. A tiny target, form a long distance away, what is even harder to hit from above? THAT is suspicious! A poisoned bolt (Myrmen are also known for using poisons) in the guts would have been less suspicious, but also less certain to be deadly.
I keep coming back to Barth and I would love a full series on him! Like, on one hand I find it damn near impossible that a septon would become hand of the king and not be a plant. On the other the way Barth is described and behaves, even with a biased narration in mind makes me think he wasn't or at least didn't remain one consistently. I do think he was probably a genuine friend to Jahaerys. But part of me wonders if he got sent to kings landing in a kind of "Here go play with the dragons- best case scenario you give us good intel worst case the dragons eat you and we don't have to bother with poison" Like, he was no one of any rank or status, he was the son of a blacksmith and rode in on a donkey. He was always controversial- to the point the king had to try twice to make him hand and his writings were burned en masse within a generation of his death. The idea of him replacing the man he did was seen as laughable. So...... Whatchya doing here Barth? And uh, whose side is he on? I honestly peg him as a Marwyn like character- he's on his own side, for his own reasons- maybe just answers.
My library has F&B on audiobook, my stats read: "Since 7 May 2020, you have picked up this audiobook 95 times ..." A total borrowing time of 33 weeks. By the end of the recording, Simon Vance has endured expedient aging akin to a sitting president. Huge gratitude for you taking on this close reading Preston, your introductory context was spot on. Looking forward to your perspectives on mythologizing history (i.e. Viserys I telling a story to Helaena's children about Jaehaerys I fighting wildlings on his dragon beyond the wall). All the best, i'm all about this series.
The only gripe I have is when you refer to the crossbow as so heavy and slow that a scout wouldn't use it. This simply isn't the case, crossbows aren't that heavy and featured often in skirmishing.
What made no sense about Aemon's death is how the heck did anyone know who was the intended target? They were shooting at someone 100 yards away and missed but hit Aemon and everyone knows that? Yeah, was very sus.
There was a part I found amusing when Jaehaerys finally comes of age and becomes king and dismisses the old council. Particularly the septon that didn't like him and the book mentions how when he rode on an orante carriage back to the Citadel, he probably passed Septon Barth who was riding a mere donkey on his way to Kingslanding
There are a few things wrong/not fully explained here: 4:33 : The dragons didn't die during the dance of the dragons, but during the following reign of Aegon III "Dragonbane". also called "the unlucky". This happend because dragoneggs stopped hatching and when hatching, they were often small and miformed. Dragons also were smaller than their Valyrian counterparts. There are a lot of theories both in-universe and by the community about this I can get into if asked. 7:35 : Viserys wasn't Jaehaerys son but his grandson of his second surviving son Baelon. In general the age of the old king was an important reason why the dance even happend. 9:20 : thats just a thing I want to throw in: the Archmaester Gyldyan gives reasons why the reign of Jaehaerys was viewed as so good, like his infrastructure projects, the law improvments, the relative absence of wars and when there were wars, they weren't costly or long. He however is depicted as a bad father, tho I think it really depends on ones personal belives how good/bad this fictional King was (as good/bad is a moral, subjective question). I also want to make clear that Targaryans in general are pretty awful (they are Suprmacist, do Incest, are generally very bloody and agressive and of course those are the medival times so don't expect great, positve traits like being forgiving or caring for weaker people). 10:30 : more context: Aegon IV had a ton of Bastards, which he ALL made legitmate on his deathbed while there was already a ton of tension in the realm. 17:30 : I know this hole thing is about how Gyldyan is biased in favour of Jaehaerys, but there is so much "people said XYZ conspiracy", even during the time of the old king and this was one of the parts where it wasnt said. What I want to say in colclusion: don't take this as an objective summary of what happend in Fire & Blood to understand the context of the show. A lot of this is -delibratly - debated about by fans of the books. I really recommned y'all read the books and get the picture for yourself. It's not the easiest read, but I think it is a good combination when paired with the show. Long live the time traveling fetus, King Tyrion Lennister
I love the way that the book they are using as the source material was written. I have read it more times then the actual series. I am optimistic. I won't say excited but I will say optimistic. This video was beautifully done and I really enjoyed it and can not wait for your series on it. Thank you.
Another great series by Preston I get to obsess over. Love the details. I've only read F&B once (probably enough) and just recently, so this is perfect timing.
Completely off topic but on a stream you once asked what is "Football's coming home!" and yes it is a song. Funny thing is that it's very popular among english fans that chant IT'S COMING HOME every time England plays in a World Cup or even Euros in hopes that they will surely win it this time. Except they haven't since 1966.
Theres so many times in your analysis of ice&fire material where Im never sure if your picking up on something George wrote in between the lines, if youre interpreting an accidental contradiction as something more, or if youre just flat out misinterpreting what is happening. Eitherway your videos on ice&fire are always a treat. Cant wait for more Winds of Winter chapters. (Please do something cool with the Others!!)
God, me too. "Theon is of course both hideous and stinky." "Stannis is one weird, lying, sketchy dude." "Arianne is nothing like Doran; she's not clever and she's not cautious." "Arya offered herself sexually to the lords of Westeros." So many gems.
I think the main reason Jaehaery's didn't want Rhaenys as heir is because he wants Targaryens to sit the Iron Throne not because of sexism. Rhaeny's children have the Velarioyn last name.
@@Rodiacreed And if one of them became king, he would have taken the Targaryen name. You can't just replace a dynasty via marriage. The royal house of the UK is still the House of Windsor after the queen dies, not Mountbatten.
@@maliziosoeperverso1697 That is not the case in ASOIAF. Daemon Blackfyre retained his bastard name after coronation by his followers despite having both Targaryen parents since he is a bastard. A Velaryon will remain as such as well. Jaehaerys wanted to ensure the 3 headed dragon remain flying over Kingslanding and that the king's name will be Targaryen for generations to come. Nothing wrong with that.
Nitpick but from the wikipedia page for the Silmarillion: "Scholars have noted, however, that Tolkien intended the work to be a mythology, penned by many hands, and redacted by a fictional editor, whether Ælfwine or Bilbo Baggins. "
Yep there is overanalyasis of Silmarillion and it's bias against Sons of Feanor and people who are ok with them like Fingon - th-cam.com/video/GiSklpgBG3s/w-d-xo.html and
This is looking up to be a good series… Even though I’ve heard most of these set-up opinions in other videos of yours, there was something about structuring it all together that still gave me a wow pause. I expect to be surprised many more times
This channel is just fantastic! I've been a SOIAF fan since I was in high school, how have I not run across this? Nevertheless, I'm glad I've stumbled across your videos, you've got a subscriber for life now.
I think the Maesters made sure that Aegon III and his family could not hatch new dragons after the devastation of the Dance of the Dragons. Also, as Marwyn said, the world the Citadel is building has no place for anything of magical origin. They seem to desire to build a world based on science, knowledge, reason and logic.
Nah I disagree even though Martin liked to showcase these huge conspiracies and magical elements at the end of the day his stories are usually about the individual characters and their human emotions. That’s why anticlimactically I think the person who ultimately lead to the death of the dragons was Aegon III himself.
I’ve been thinking lately about the ancient oily black statues in and around Westeros and the base of the Tower in Oldtown: do you think it could be a version of Saturn Worship in this universe?
I really want this to be a good show. I hope if it is good and successful they can maybe move to the blackfyre rebellions which are my favorite period of asoiaf.
If the Evenstar of Tarth were complicit in Aemon's death, that'd put them in alignment Team Oldtown, along with the Hightowers, with whom they sort of share status as uber quasi-mythic First Men nobility who pragmatically accepted all Andal benefits
I simultaneously cringe at these people for being so invested in it, but here I am watching their videos. I tip my cap to them for making a living off it, and I’m also thankful for the good content…. BUT: What if we had a Real Culture full of Real Events that are equally interesting and worthy of pride, worthy of (accurate) documentation? Worthy of telling the stories (songs) to our children so they have a vague guide of what they could choose to look up to. Actual, Real Life Heroes.
Reminds me of that comic book guy joke from the Simpsons "It didn't really happen" "None of these things ever *really* happened" "...get out of my store"
@@ingolfringolfrson1577 You and Crusty Nuggets are proving my point….. and when you say “I don’t understand what you mean by “proving” your point”…. You’re proving it again.
@@ingolfringolfrson1577 I can’t understand what you mean. THAT is a bit ironic, even thought my statement isn’t trying to be THAT sarcastic or THAT mean. Find someone else to reply to pls.
Preston I just peed I'm so excited. Can't wait to see how this series develops. As this is my favorite ASOIAF period, I wrote an alternative history where Aemon and Baelon rival Maegor the Cruel's heir, who has spent her life preparing, hidden away in the walls of the Red Keep. It's called 'Baelon, Alyssa and the rats of the Red Keep: A Different Dance' on Fanfiction dot net. Shameless promo but sharing in case anyone loves this period as much as I do 🥰 🐉
If there isn't a scene with Septon Barth going to use the privy and Alyssa sticks her head out of the toilet and goes "Guess I shoulda taken that left turn at Albuquerque" then regretfully I must decline this invitation. Ice and Fire needs more Bugs Bunny
If there was only a way to do a show on the whole story line from start to finish and how it’s supposed to be done , we will never get to see about the blackfyre rebellion or when the andols came or how the house Dane got it’s start ! I’m in love with everything from letter one to the last period
"the reader is not supposed to question, or reinterpret things" //readers rigorously combing through history of middle-earth volumes, tolkien's old scrap notes, letters and parallels to tolkien's life// were we not? (since it was published posthumously, one can't say for certain the story is 100% what the author wanted; there's plenty of contradictory information in there and at some point tolkien wrote it, as though it were a history being told or chronicled by historians such as pengolodh or aelfwine, plus the added layer of tolkien essentially treating the story as though he's translating it from old english, which was then a translation from quenya)
Although to be fair the Elves had much more access to primary sources. Namely the Valar and even themselves for the later stuff. They are immortal after all,
@@gavinsmith9871 True, but there's definite political motives involved in the Silm, the first half is pretty much dominated by a series of political (and later also cultural) conflicts; the primary source is purported to be a "Pengolodh", who, as an elf of Gondolin, spends most of the First Age sequestered away in the hidden city, etc. etc.
Couldn't Baelon and Ameon be considered of equal achievement if you consider their dragons? Like yes Baelon has fewer titles and deeds to his name but his dragon is one of the biggest ones by far, especially compared to Aemon's much younger dragon. If opinion of Jaehaerys is swayed by dragon size Rhaenys also has a smaller dragon. Jaehaerys could just have picked the person with the largest dragon. Oldtown would allow Baelon to be heir believing that dragon size is less important than dragon hatching.
Nine if it happened it’s all just a fever dream in the mind of the blue eyed giant makumbo Let’s not forget that George had a story named fevre dream and there are dream sending hive mind fungi in men of grey water station And when in a fever you may be constipated, and what do you eat when constipated? Bran! Yeah I just went full Preston 🤣
@@theJuulJournal Since when you time travel you are just a consciousness in the weirwood net you don't need to be born to be there you just have to be there.
What fascinates me about the prelude to war is the circumstances under which Laena wound up with Vhagar, bearing in mind her mother Rhaenys may have been the only dragonrider in the world at that point, which made her de facto Protector of the Realm despite her alienation over the succession.
@@jeffreym8503 I've found it unclear when Daemon 1st mounted Caraxes, iirc no mention of it when he summoned swords to back Viserys in GC101. In any event he wouldn't have been near as proficient as Rhaenys
@@bram_412 well just going off of the point in time you mentioned in your initial comment by the time laena claimed Vhagar as her dragon daemon was most certainly a dragon rider
A question occured to me. The Citadel is against magic, prophecy and everything of the sort, but the Hightowers, who are patrons of the Citadel and basically own it, are partial to all those things the Citadel is against. So why does the Citadel not share the worldview of the Hightowers?
I think he briefly addressed that question in his Dragonless Ambitions series. His take was that the oldtown forces want a monopoly on magic and prophecy and it's interpretation. However, that's an old series and he's likely changed his perspective since, so who's to say
Sorry to be a Chad Summerchild here, but this is an AWESOME idea for a series, bro! I always wished that the Fire & Blood episodes of the Game of Thrones Podcast would go more in-depth, and doing this line-by-line, like for Prepping for Winter, is a great idea! At this point GRRM should really be paying Preston for keeping interest in his work so high. This video alone got me more excited for House of the Dragon than any of the trailers!
"This will be a rigorous, line by line analysis".
Say no more Preston! I'm in!
"Be prepared for a long ride"
BUCKLE UP
I wouldn't expect anything less!
As am I.
A big theme of ASOIAF is that characters actions and motivations are based on lies, misunderstandings, and incomplete info (Catelyn's hatred of Jon). So I'm hoping that the writers play with that in the show.
We have as much info as Catelyn does at this point, though
@@PuddingAtheist You're not wrong, but I'm just gonna assume R+L=J is true in the books at this point. I'd be really shocked if it isn't.
@@t_ylr Yeah me too.
Catelyn was completely justified in her fear of Jon.
No, she was not right to fear Jon. It was her humiliation of "...Ned brought his bastard to Winterfel and called him son for all to see" that drove her JEALOUSY of Jon, and later her fear that he would turn on his brothers and sisters(an unfounded fear as Jon was a baby). That's
Direct from Cat's pov. Her cruel treatment of Jon was no secret to anyone at Winterfel. Calling him by his name for the 1st time when he's 14? What did she call him before that moment? BASTARD would be my guess. She has a distinct disdain for bastards and and folk lower born than she is. It's all throughout her pov chapters and other's pov when she is there. It began when she was a child playing with Lysa & Peter. Her memories of that time prove it. Cat was so notorious for treating Jon so horribly, that the first thing Robb asked Jon after his heartwenching goodbye to Bran was, "Did you see Bran?", when Jon says yes, he then asks with concern on his eyes " My mother?", and because Jon was no one for her to fear (had she opened her heart and let go of her jealousy and prejudices((get to know Jon)) she would have known that), he lies to Robb to save face for Cat in Robb's eyes and answers, "She was very gracious". Even though she was nothing but vitriol to him when he said his goodbyes to Bran.
No. There are no excuses for her. She was following her own prejudices.
Her opening lines are about how little she thinks of Northerners and their ways and their Gods. She's a typical conniving, prejudiced Westerossi Sothron Lady. Imho. Can you tell I don't her lol
When you talk about biases, it's also worth noting that Gyldane began writing the book after the Greyjoy rebellion as a gift for King Robert. A gift to the new king would show the previous dynasty less favourably in order to remain in his good graces.
That was The World of Ice and Fire, written by Maester Yandel. Not Fire and Blood.
@@michaelhenry3234 I thought WoIaF was for young King Tommen?
@@kerrychristensen7204 The framing of the book is that it was written for Robert, then Robert died, then it was hastily dedicated to Joffrey, then Joffrey died, and so it passed to Tommen. There's a place in the book where Yandel dedicates it to his king, but both Robert and Joffrey's names are crossed out and replaced with Tommen's.
@@michaelhenry3234 Oh! That's interesting! I listened to an audiobook version, so I missed out on that detail completely. Thanks for sharing!
“This will be a rigorous, line-by-line analysis.”
My King, this is primarily why I am a loyal subscriber! 😂👍
We are feasting
Stop I can only get so hard🤣
🤘😹
Let’s be honest there’ll also be things not written in the lines we analyse too
@@Ravi9A It's okay. You will not be the first, nor the last to wank to Preston's analysis and theories. Have at it, bro.
Even without taking any conspiracy into the equation, it's really well worth pointing out, as this video does, how regionally concentrated the influence at court was at this time. Having all of this Oldtown influence be so well-represented should make us wonder what the rest of the realm's lords must think of the king's council.
I immediately thought Aemon's death was suspicious, even though I did not piece it together like this. Oh he got shot by accident while they were trying to kill someone else who is much less important, as Varys would say: "What a tragic turn of events."
With his simpering smile (as one character, probably Ned or Tyrion) put it
@@hopedixon2133 I bear you no ill will, he said with a wry smile.
@@psevdhome "Indeed." Varys laid a soft hand on the queen's sleeve.
"You have a mother's heart, and I know His Grace loves his little sweetling."
I found the simpering smile description, it's earlier in this ACOK chapter. And it's Tyrion...should have known, Ned Stark ain't using words that big lol. RIP
@@hopedixon2133 I do love that level of detail. Like how different characters interact completely differently.
Varys acts to Cersei as if she is the only one that he is honest with, to trick her into thinking that he's not up to anything more. She's honestly stupid enough to believe she knows all, so he lets her think that.
Varys does the same to Tyrion, except he sees that Tyrion knows he's up to more, but Varys confuses him regarding what that is, so that even though Tyrion mistrusts Varys, he can't do anything until he finds out what exactly.
Varys even says that Tyrion could not "get rid" if him. It's where the famous mer-man theory comes from. Tyrion threatens to throw him into the sea and Varys just shrugs and says, "you would be disappointed with the result I'm afraid".
@@psevdhome Sorry, I totally meant to reply back earlier because I love this idea of Lord Varys, the Sea Spider! I guess I never really considered it but he certainly seems like a skinchanger of some type to me.
I do want to linger a moment on Varys...he NEVER gets enough attention. Cersei does know that she cannot trust Varys completely (she confesses this to either Tyrion or Jaime) so to me, I interpret this as Varys has betrayed Cersei in some way personally as in telling on of her secret's...my guess is he is the one who told the Small Council that Cersei bore her brother's bastards, thus apparently launching our story with Jon Arryn's investigation and death. I'm pretty sure Preston gathered that Littlefinger was the probable instigator but I would never doubt Varys. Who knows for sure, but that would be my guess.
I also think quite a bit about the relationship of Varys and Illyrio Mopatis; are they really the business partners and friends as they presented to be? I accept their friendship as youths but I think deep down, both men are not truly loyal to anyone but themselves. I don't say this as a criticism but they obviously prioritize their well-being and status at the cost of others. As much as Varys claims he does it "for the realm"...nah bish, you do it so you can remain affluent to rearrange who you have in power. He told Tyrion he would absolutely lie to save his own skin, and I believe him.
So two men such as this...can they really rely on each other? At some point, the urge to sell out the other or bring down the other would be immense I am sure, and unless I just cannot read these men, I do see their fate headed there...or has already been there but we are unaware. Varys is so good at disguising (*cough*skinchanger*cough) that he can fool almost everyone and Illyrio wears more rings (AKA allegiances) than Tom Brady (or so I assume from Superb Owl wins). This are all signs pointing to "I am not team player"...or at least how it could be interpreted.
I will say, one strike against the mer-man theory is the supposed stink; Varys does not stink...or if he does, he is able to hide it to a considerable agree. Granted, he does stink when he visits Ned in the Black Cells but later he gets lilac- scent (Tyrion?) descriptions so he must be well-stocked if mer-men really do stink, as good ol Dick Crabbe said. God, what a magnificent character. I mourned his death with Brienne.
P.S. For Women's History Month, our librarian is collecting "empowering" photos of us ladies at the school, and because I am a total jackass, I am going to photoshop my face onto Varys body and put, "(Em)Power resides where (wo)Men believe it resides, no more and no less" just so I can be Varys in a school poster. I already cosplayed as Ser Brynden Rivers for this year's yearbook so why not??
When I read Fire and Blood and learned how Aemon died, my radar of suspicion immediately went off. I've long held a belief that house Hightower is the final arbiter of power in the realm via all their proxies and lesser houses. The declaration of Aegon I as king was a blow to their control and the removal of dragons became an immediate goal so they could restore that control. Aemon needed to die in order to sow the seeds of a succession crisis. And that's what happened.
How is this a Hightower plot is just some Randy’s from myr i. Hate how preston doesn’t go into the myrish bloodbath or this guys getting kicked out or how weird is that Tarth fell so quickly aka tarth may have been incompetent
I automatically love this because you straight up admit you’re over analyzing it.
_The Silmarillion_ is actually Tolkien's _main_ work, the heart of his literary and cultural project, it's not a mere appendix. _The Hobbit_ and _The Lord Of The Rings_ are the works that support _The Silmarillion_ (even though _The Lord Of The Rings_ can be read as the New Testament to _The Silmarillion_ , that means something much more than a mere curiosity, it's the thematic resolution of all the problems established in _The Silmarillion_ , working as the Apocalypse/Revelation of Middle Earth).
The difference between Tolkien's _The Silmarillion_ and Martin's _The World Of Ice And Fire_ and _Fire And Blood_ is that Tolkien is emulating sacred texts and epic poems: the Bible, Homer (ex: Gondolin is Tolkien's version of Troy), Dante, Milton, Chaucer, _Bewoulf_ , _The Eddas_ etc . Martin on the other hand is emulating history books, especially the biased ones, the ones that today we can read as literary value instead as source of information, like Herodotus, Plutarch, Titus Livius.
@@J.lind_2012 Feanor is an amazing character, i wish he had his own book and on his sons
@@J.lind_2012 troll
@@J.lind_2012 lmao, you’re the one irrationally angry at a book
@@J.lind_2012 Irrational hatred of British people and anything they’ve created? Based as fuck
@@J.lind_2012 he died before he could, his son did the best to honor, complete and publish his work. There's a lot of investigation and linguistic work behind it. If you want to rant like a teenager for not finding the cultural richness in the book go ahead, don't be angry, no one stops you to do so.
This is gonna be a 100-parter and I'll absolutely love it
Taming Vhagar seems like a pretty significant accomplishment on Baelon's part. Interesting that it isn't mentioned when listing the princes' accomplishments. In a way it makes Gyldayn's statement of them being similarly accomplished more reasonable (maybe there are other things he doesn't mention?). You'd think he didn't mention it because it's a dragon related accomplishment, but he did mention Baelon's success in dragon warfare.
I do wonder what that entails to make it an accomplishment, taming a dragon that is older and more powerful. I am not saying it isn't at all, I just am unclear on what dragonriders really DO to bind a dragon to them. From Preston's analysis, he believes that genetics has a great deal to do with that ability, and I concur with that as well. It probably is a lot like warging; an individual has the special X or two but the gene still needs to be activated somehow. Preston's idea is trauma (think all the Stark kids obviously lol), close proximity to the animal, and telepathy. Why do dragons choose who they chose beyond those requirements? Why do they choose anyone at all? We know the intelligence of ravens, crows, and wolves because they are real creatures for us but dragons? They are portrayed across the board from simple and primal to god-like across literature, so who knows? Like I said, you may totally be right that it is an accomplishment (and it makes sense why humans perceive it that way) but is it that or as Professor McGonagall would say, "...sheer, dumb luck"? Lol it could always be both.
@@hopedixon2133 Even if it is just luck, I think there's a good chance it would be perceived as an accomplishment, or at least as something worthy of particular note. It's been a while since I've read this stuff, so I'm not sure, but there might have been other examples in which taming the most powerful dragon alive was considered worthy of note (possibly when Aemond tamed Vhagar?). It could very well just be something that makes sense to me but has no clear cut evidence.
Although, if Baelon does have the exceptionally "strong" genes or telepathy needed to tame Vhagar it might make the Oldtown conspiracy to make him or his descendants king a double-edged sword: he's preferable to his pro-Velaryon brother but he could bring with him strong dragon genes. But this is a whole other complicated matter, it's unclear where this Oldtown conspiracy theory is going exactly.
I never truly understood how deep scheming of oldtown block was, your video once again helped me to open my eyes lit bit more. Excellent work just like always, Preston.
Same.
"He Lights the Way"
To me it’s kind of bullshit.
Sure, some maesters have their agendas, but saying than the “maester conspiracy “ as in, the idea that all or most worked on such a thing is even 50% legit is dubious at best.
@@fandemusique4693 Lol I mean that's fine, I don't think it's 100% in ASOIAF but that's what I find most endearing. The author is trying to trick and surprise me, but that only makes me speculate more.
Knowing these things about GRRM's writing style is why Preston makes so much sense; they're out there because George is out there. And it's suspicious that the Hightowers are so absent from the story despite historically being far more influential...they still have the power and scope to do if they wish, they have many resources. Even if you don't think they want to kill Targaryens, Maesters definitely routinely spy on their lords and manipulate them for either their own agendas or presumably the Citadel's. But ya, I get if someone doesn't believe it, but I like this theory.
@@hopedixon2133 the modern Hightower in asoiaf are supporters of the Tyrell, the House Tyrell is at the peak of it's power, and the Hightower and Redwyne are it's main supporters.
@@fandemusique4693 I know that...but they aren't in the story as in our POV characters rarely interact with ANY of them...I can only think of Alerie Hightower, and her description is so basic. We have no insights into their house dynamic like we do Tyrell...we even have more on Redwynes. But Hightowers and Velaryons remain elusive, and we wonder where their allegiances will end up, especially since they are the main houses behind the Blacks and Greens with the Targaryens. A lack of detail can point to possible revelations in the future in this story.
When Jaehaerys threatens the Sealord of Braavos, (if memory serves, I haven't reread the book in years) he literally flew to the city and made some not so veiled comments about using his dragons against them. I've always considered that the point at which the Braavosi decided that the dragons needed to die and the Targaryens needed to be heavily weakened. They were not about to have a repeat of Valyria on their hands after all. I think that the faceless men are working in the background of the story past that point just like the Maesters and most of the weird and unexplained deaths of Jaehearys sons are due to them. I don't have anything to base that off on, but maybe you'll find some evidence for it over your analysis.
I haven't read the book in a while either but I believe it was Septon Barth doing the veiled threats when he was trying to retrieve the dragon eggs that were stolen. I think that the Braavosi threatened him back with using the Faceless Men as well which is why I'm hesitant to definitively say that Braavos tried to wipe out dragons.
I have a theory that you actually only have 2 sides. Fire and Ice not being those 2 sides. The people don't all know what they are fighting against, they are being played like puppets to dance for the 2 sides. Grrm said we won't see gods but I feel like the children and rhllor followers are the 2 sides. I don't know how he'll work it but Braavos will be on the side of the children and the old gods. Mel will end up leading the fiery hand to fight against the children. I don't know where Dany and Jon end up on this scale but I was high when I came up with it and usually spot on when high.
The War of 5 Kings was a prelude to Planetos War One, a proxy battle mainly between Braavos, the North and the Rhoynish (all sorcerous) against more retrograde Free Cities like Pentos and Volantis and the slave-mercenary industrial complex and toxic Andal patriarchy. Dany will die as she lived, as a pawn in larger schemes. Sansa's blood through Aegon might inherit the throne, after much is settled, though that throne might be in Harrenhal and Bran the White or whomever might jump into them anyway.
I wondered this as well. The argument against is that the faceless men probably could have ended the Targaryan line. If this is true why did some Targaryans survive?
@@patrickdematosribeiro1845 so the economy of braavos entirely depends on trade, and they probably figured that creating a power vacuum with all the targaryens dead would lead to a lot of war à la the seven kingdoms before the targaryens. They probably figured that a dragonless targaryen dynasty could ensure stability so that trade can go on and the iron bank can continue lending and collecting loans
I think this is the series I've been looking forward to the most. The Dance of the Dragons being such a pivotal point in the history of Westeros is beyond question in my opinion. The slaughter of so many dragons by other hostile dragons plays so well into the hands of the Oldtown Trio as I like to think of them that it just feels like an engineered conflict. This civil war was in a lot of ways the beginning of the end for the Targaryen family. Not literally, but politically and in terms of influence as well with the dying population of dragons. The knock-on effects are just too many to count, really. It potentially changed Westeros from a dragon paradise to what we see in the main books. I'm so hype!
Well, yes, it's kinda fascinating that Targaryens somehow managed to rule for another 150 years after that without dragons.
What's even more fascinating: Targaryen rule after losing dragons kinda was even more peaceful. They even managed to finish their Conquest after losing dragons!
@@iliaponomarev1624 Prior to the Dance, Targaryens had ridable dragons, a superweapon no other kingdom in Westeros could effectively combat save Dorne. After the Conquest, having dragons meant Targaryens could rule as absolute monarchs and god help any rebels cause they'd get the business end of the dragons. After the Dance, the Targaryens had to change tactics: they lost their superweapon, so they had to hold things together through diplomacy. Now the Great Houses had legitimate clout in questioning the former absolute monarchs, with the realm becoming far more decentralized. The power of the crown was no longer absolute so yes, I think it fair to say the Dance was the beginning of the end for the Targaryen dynasty which has been completely usurped in the main story.
Preston! Thanks for this dude. You deserve to be one of the TOP greatest ASOIAF related channels. One of the best channels period.
Honestly more excited for this series than House of the Dragon itself!
Looking forward to this series. Too bad that the show is likely going to miss all of the nuances that Preston will bring up.
It did miss a lot of it. Some of it was still in it. However, the show turned out overall good with a few bad scenes sprinkled in.
It's so awesome, Preston. But I am quite afraid the series won't adress any historical ambiguity, nor hidden conspirations. Unfortunately. I think they'll take written sources at face value.
What I'm wondering is how much Jaehaerys was on this Oldtown conspiracy thing. Like, did he really trust his Hand and Grand Maester or was he trying to keep peace through surrendering some power to them? Because in some parts it feels like he was a reasonably smart politician, in some other parts it feels like he was totally an Oldtown doormat.
Would be hilarious if he was really a braindead doormat all along
Lol. I love your phrasing of "Oldtown doormat" but you know it is possible the answer is more complex than that...it could even be both.
Let's consider one example from Preston's own wheelhouse; Sansa and Littlefinger
Once Sansa transforms into Alayne Baelish in the Vale, Myranda Royce is intent on learning her secrets. She obviously thinks Sansa and Littlefinger are in a relationship, most likely sexual, but their relationship is not that easy to describe. I'm sure Littlefinger wants it to be sexual (ew) but I don't think he really cares about the well-being of Sansa like her mother or father would, she is still a tool to him, a pawn. She has been pretty oblivious to his manipulation of her, and is grateful that he saved her from Joffrey. I don't think she realizes still in the released TWOW chapter that she is his pawn BUT she does know he is a great manipulator of others. She saw him push her aunt to her death...but he also saved her literal life from the crazy bitch. She isn't (hopefully) attracted to him in a sexual way but she feels like she owes him probably and can't refuse when he kisses her on the lips. God, he's such a pedophile, and GRRM has SO many of them, I hate it lol.
My point is that both feel conflicting feelings for each other; Littlefinger wants Sansa (ugh) but he's also using her in his struggle for whatever he wants, which is...unknown (probably power) lol but also feels somewhat protective of her simply because she favors Cat (god I hope he dies). And Sansa feels obligation to him for saving her from both Joffrey and Lysa, keeping her "safe" (she's highborn so she's been taught to rely on men to take care and protect her), he flatters her (GROSS), and he does appear (to her) to be giving her all she deserves and more. She still thinks she's going to live a fairy tale life after all that has happened to her...poor Sansa, she's so wrong probably.
GRRM loves the heart in conflict...so my guess was perhaps Septon Barth was both a spy and friend of King Jaehaerys. Maybe he was supposed to kill Jaehaerys even, but I think he would refuse, but still passed on his secrets to the Faith. Think of how Varys' may genuinely like Tyrion but he still sells him out to Cersei and Tywin because he had to appear useful, or so he says. I'm really not so sure about Grand Maester Elysar; he was apparently sharp-tongued and opinionated (sounds like Haldon Halfmaester lol) but he too could have felt the same way, who knows. It is completely possible these men felt many different, opposing thoughts about each other, especially at different points or events in life. You can never really know what others may think...unless you're telepathic lol.
No one fears to tread on an Oldtown doormat but it conceals worms which people don't really fear to tread on either. There is no practical difference.
The unreliability of Fire and Blood and filling in the gaps for yourself have been what I said when I started reading the book. The whole thing is a history but, you're given half truths and speculations and you have to choose which one you believe.
Its a great way to write. It feels like reading an old History book that has bias written as fact.
Ever since I've watched Genetics of Dragons and Maester Videos I hoped something like this would show up on your channel once again. Every part is a delight.
4:30 "he cannot be trusted, no more than I can" Did he just compare himself to a King? was that some Aegon invasion reference, that they are all on team Targaryen , or did Marwyn partially confess to having more megalomaniacal motives than we thought ?
He meant Aemon couldn't be trusted because he would take the study of magic seriously and potentially try to bring back the dragons. Marwyn has that same motive.
Alternatively, he could also be claiming that he is OF the same blood as Aemon...a Targaryen. I mean we have NO idea who this Marwyn really is, and in a world where people probably can use telekinesis to change their entire appearance, I can't rule out anything based on they way they look. I mean, if the glass candle is "magic", he seems to have one lit, so he may have powers ESPECIALLY if he believes he does.
"Power resides where men believe it resides, no more and no less."
I still think it would be fucking hilarious if a glass candle was a lamp and a light bulb because they'd rediscovered electricity lol but probably not.
Not really. The only connection that he was attempting to establish was that they are both untrustworthy to the citadel.
It's for similar reasons. Aemon was a Targaryen, while Marwyn is a conspiracy theorist and an actual mage who wants to bring dragons back.
In other words, they are both on the side of the dragons.
@@dustingaethje1332 being on the side of the dragons could just mean he is biding his time until he could get a dragon, everyone else Wants to be kind in this series, why not him?
Omg I love these over analysis series. Waiting for each part isn't fun though 🥲
"This will be a rigorous line-by-line analysis, so be prepared for a long ride. We will have many, MANY, parts to this!"
Why do you think I came all this way?
I am so excited, I adore the Dance of the Dragons/Jahearys reign, so many seeds were sown and so much political intrigue. Cannot wait for the rest of this series !!
The ambiguous nature of The Blacks and The Greens is what makes it such a fun read! I love that you're laying this out in a more streamlined timeline! I'm nervous about the show coming in and stomping all over my head canon haha
Instead of calling rhaenys the queen who never was, we should call her “the queen who should have been”
Long-time subscriber here super excited for this in-depth series! Thank you for being so awesome, Preston!
Great start! Eagerly awaiting the rest of this series. Thank you, Preston!
This Is INCREDIBLY good work!! Can't wait to sink my teeth into this playlist. From what I've heard of the first episode of HOTD, the maesters subtly moving things or having sketchy motives WILL be present throughout the show and I'm very excited to see how it all plays out
Awesome stuff Preston. This is a huge help in understanding what to expect from House of the Dragon.
Glad you explained the crossbow thing from your view. I picked up on it too but couldn't visualize it going down properly.
I'm worried the writers won't go into all this political intrigue and will instead rely solely on spectacle like D&D.
I'm hoping that the writers learned their lesson, after having seen D&D become the most hated men in the history of television (at least since Bill Cosby), and will do their damn jobs and write from the book!
@@neuralmute The hate is overblown, is not their fault the books are incomplete. After watching WOT and the LOTR teaser, there are more stupid showrunners running around with completed source material..
I don't think what happened with got will happen in hotd. We know the character arcs and plot points. The story is itself an act of political intrigue. Both political drama and battles needs to coexist for a civil war to work.
@@ianvera4299 yeah but you shouldn't really make excuses for their gross incompetence. Look how they butchered the Dorne plot. They had everything to make an ending that made a bit of sense, yet they still failed in that aspect. They lacked oversight, so the writing suffered. Hotd has multiple writers working together. Hopefully, bad ideas would be filtered out due to checks and balances.
@@ianvera4299 That's no excuse. There are people here on TH-cam who could have written a better ending to GOT than D&D did. They got lazy.
I literally have never imagined all this to be a conspiracy and now i can't stop thinking it totally is
Poor Preston, they are going to change so many things in the show throwing this essay series off the rails.
This series is so important
I love overanalyzation!
This is amazing Preston, gotta love you!
I think you skipped one major reason why Rhaenys is skipped over by the old King… It’s because his dynasty House Targ would stop being kings if she inherited.
So HYPED for this show!!
Oh man, I just found your channel but I LOVE this! All the little inconsistensies and grey areas... You, good sir, have a talent. Count me in for as many parts as you need!
I bet these blow up now that the shows out and they are so well put together, I already recommended it to two coworkers
Oh man, this is the series I needed right now! Working 12 hour days and it gets boring, but listening to theories about ASOIAF--especially ones written so well--is a god send 🤙🏾
At the risk of pedantry, just want to point out that the Silmarillion was published as though it were a literal account but was not written that way.
The materials which Christopher Tolkien compiled into the published Silmarillion were taken from numerous sources attributed to different in-world authors (like Fire & Blood), mainly Rúmil and Pengolodh, and later compiled by an in-world translator, either Bilbo or Ælfwine. These accounts disagreed in places, offering different perspectives and lending an air of historicity. Tolkien was a philologist, so he was delighted by this sort of thing.
Cristopher Tolkien chose to erase these nuances and smooth out the narrative into a cohesive whole for a number of legitimate editorial reasons, though he later admitted in The History of Middle Earth series, that this may have been a misstep. That series contains many of these variants on the Silmarillion stories. While some are definitely just earlier drafts, others seem intended to have been published alongside one another. Tolkien scholar Dr. Corey Olsen talks about this extensively in his own series of seminars and line by line readings.
Anyway, I too am delighted by this sort of thing, so this source-critical series is much appreciated. Good work, and thanks.
''This will be a rigorous, line-by-line analysis''
yes please. give me more.
Good to see this, ser
"Why would the Myrish scouts have crossbows?"
Because crossbows are THE Myrish weapon! If you want to assassinate a prince and blame the Myrish, you should use a Myrish weapon.
If the Myrish known for using crossbows and daggers (which they are!) killing the prince with a longbow or a battleaxe would be would be very suspicious.
You don't need to question the use of crossbows. You SHOULD question the way prince Aemon was hit!
The bolt was stuck in his throat. A tiny target, form a long distance away, what is even harder to hit from above? THAT is suspicious!
A poisoned bolt (Myrmen are also known for using poisons) in the guts would have been less suspicious, but also less certain to be deadly.
I keep coming back to Barth and I would love a full series on him! Like, on one hand I find it damn near impossible that a septon would become hand of the king and not be a plant. On the other the way Barth is described and behaves, even with a biased narration in mind makes me think he wasn't or at least didn't remain one consistently. I do think he was probably a genuine friend to Jahaerys. But part of me wonders if he got sent to kings landing in a kind of "Here go play with the dragons- best case scenario you give us good intel worst case the dragons eat you and we don't have to bother with poison" Like, he was no one of any rank or status, he was the son of a blacksmith and rode in on a donkey. He was always controversial- to the point the king had to try twice to make him hand and his writings were burned en masse within a generation of his death. The idea of him replacing the man he did was seen as laughable. So...... Whatchya doing here Barth? And uh, whose side is he on? I honestly peg him as a Marwyn like character- he's on his own side, for his own reasons- maybe just answers.
Wow. I have read this book twice and this went completelyyyy over my head. Great video! Can't wait for the next ones!
I have watched this whole playlist dozens of times
My library has F&B on audiobook, my stats read: "Since 7 May 2020, you have picked up this audiobook 95 times ..." A total borrowing time of 33 weeks. By the end of the recording, Simon Vance has endured expedient aging akin to a sitting president. Huge gratitude for you taking on this close reading Preston, your introductory context was spot on. Looking forward to your perspectives on mythologizing history (i.e. Viserys I telling a story to Helaena's children about Jaehaerys I fighting wildlings on his dragon beyond the wall). All the best, i'm all about this series.
Thank you for doing this 💖
The only gripe I have is when you refer to the crossbow as so heavy and slow that a scout wouldn't use it. This simply isn't the case, crossbows aren't that heavy and featured often in skirmishing.
What made no sense about Aemon's death is how the heck did anyone know who was the intended target? They were shooting at someone 100 yards away and missed but hit Aemon and everyone knows that? Yeah, was very sus.
Thanks, Preston. I appreciate your analysis as much now as I did 7yrs ago.
There was a part I found amusing when Jaehaerys finally comes of age and becomes king and dismisses the old council. Particularly the septon that didn't like him and the book mentions how when he rode on an orante carriage back to the Citadel, he probably passed Septon Barth who was riding a mere donkey on his way to Kingslanding
There are a few things wrong/not fully explained here:
4:33 : The dragons didn't die during the dance of the dragons, but during the following reign of Aegon III "Dragonbane". also called "the unlucky". This happend because dragoneggs stopped hatching and when hatching, they were often small and miformed. Dragons also were smaller than their Valyrian counterparts. There are a lot of theories both in-universe and by the community about this I can get into if asked.
7:35 : Viserys wasn't Jaehaerys son but his grandson of his second surviving son Baelon. In general the age of the old king was an important reason why the dance even happend.
9:20 : thats just a thing I want to throw in: the Archmaester Gyldyan gives reasons why the reign of Jaehaerys was viewed as so good, like his infrastructure projects, the law improvments, the relative absence of wars and when there were wars, they weren't costly or long. He however is depicted as a bad father, tho I think it really depends on ones personal belives how good/bad this fictional King was (as good/bad is a moral, subjective question). I also want to make clear that Targaryans in general are pretty awful (they are Suprmacist, do Incest, are generally very bloody and agressive and of course those are the medival times so don't expect great, positve traits like being forgiving or caring for weaker people).
10:30 : more context: Aegon IV had a ton of Bastards, which he ALL made legitmate on his deathbed while there was already a ton of tension in the realm.
17:30 : I know this hole thing is about how Gyldyan is biased in favour of Jaehaerys, but there is so much "people said XYZ conspiracy", even during the time of the old king and this was one of the parts where it wasnt said.
What I want to say in colclusion: don't take this as an objective summary of what happend in Fire & Blood to understand the context of the show. A lot of this is -delibratly - debated about by fans of the books. I really recommned y'all read the books and get the picture for yourself. It's not the easiest read, but I think it is a good combination when paired with the show.
Long live the time traveling fetus, King Tyrion Lennister
YEAHH new Preston series! Love you man!
this is everything i wanted from your fire & blood podcast with carmine so im glad this is happening
This was excellent, can’t wait for what you have in store. Thank you!
I love the way that the book they are using as the source material was written. I have read it more times then the actual series. I am optimistic. I won't say excited but I will say optimistic. This video was beautifully done and I really enjoyed it and can not wait for your series on it. Thank you.
Thank you so much for this series! This will replace my planned reread.
Another great series by Preston I get to obsess over. Love the details. I've only read F&B once (probably enough) and just recently, so this is perfect timing.
That was a quick 20 minutes! Thanks Preston!
Your output lately has been A+++
So short after the newest Blog post? This means we will get Winds next month!
Back are we and
I've just finished listening to your chat with Trey, it's funny to go straight into and this and go back to your 'telephone' voice.
Completely off topic but on a stream you once asked what is "Football's coming home!" and yes it is a song. Funny thing is that it's very popular among english fans that chant IT'S COMING HOME every time England plays in a World Cup or even Euros in hopes that they will surely win it this time. Except they haven't since 1966.
It's coming home
PJ IS BACK FOMOS
Theres so many times in your analysis of ice&fire material where Im never sure if your picking up on something George wrote in between the lines, if youre interpreting an accidental contradiction as something more, or if youre just flat out misinterpreting what is happening.
Eitherway your videos on ice&fire are always a treat. Cant wait for more Winds of Winter chapters. (Please do something cool with the Others!!)
I would love it if you analyzed your favourite chapters in the main series. Similar to prepping for winter which is my favourite content of yours.
God, me too.
"Theon is of course both hideous and stinky."
"Stannis is one weird, lying, sketchy dude."
"Arianne is nothing like Doran; she's not clever and she's not cautious."
"Arya offered herself sexually to the lords of Westeros."
So many gems.
I think the main reason Jaehaery's didn't want Rhaenys as heir is because he wants Targaryens to sit the Iron Throne not because of sexism. Rhaeny's children have the Velarioyn last name.
Hey children could have simply taken the Targ. Name
That's not how it works. The king would be the consort and as such his family name wouldn't continue through him.
@@maliziosoeperverso1697 Rhaeny's children have the Velariyon name and even Rhaenera who did become queen, her oldest 3 children were Velariyons.
@@Rodiacreed And if one of them became king, he would have taken the Targaryen name. You can't just replace a dynasty via marriage. The royal house of the UK is still the House of Windsor after the queen dies, not Mountbatten.
@@maliziosoeperverso1697 That is not the case in ASOIAF. Daemon Blackfyre retained his bastard name after coronation by his followers despite having both Targaryen parents since he is a bastard.
A Velaryon will remain as such as well. Jaehaerys wanted to ensure the 3 headed dragon remain flying over Kingslanding and that the king's name will be Targaryen for generations to come.
Nothing wrong with that.
Nitpick but from the wikipedia page for the Silmarillion: "Scholars have noted, however, that Tolkien intended the work to be a mythology, penned by many hands, and redacted by a fictional editor, whether Ælfwine or Bilbo Baggins. "
Yep there is overanalyasis of Silmarillion and it's bias against Sons of Feanor and people who are ok with them like Fingon - th-cam.com/video/GiSklpgBG3s/w-d-xo.html and
This is looking up to be a good series… Even though I’ve heard most of these set-up opinions in other videos of yours, there was something about structuring it all together that still gave me a wow pause. I expect to be surprised many more times
This channel is just fantastic! I've been a SOIAF fan since I was in high school, how have I not run across this? Nevertheless, I'm glad I've stumbled across your videos, you've got a subscriber for life now.
Now *this* is an excellent breakdown of events. I’m excited to listen along! 🤩✨
I think the Maesters made sure that Aegon III and his family could not hatch new dragons after the devastation of the Dance of the Dragons. Also, as Marwyn said, the world the Citadel is building has no place for anything of magical origin. They seem to desire to build a world based on science, knowledge, reason and logic.
Nah I disagree even though Martin liked to showcase these huge conspiracies and magical elements at the end of the day his stories are usually about the individual characters and their human emotions. That’s why anticlimactically I think the person who ultimately lead to the death of the dragons was Aegon III himself.
I’ve been thinking lately about the ancient oily black statues in and around Westeros and the base of the Tower in Oldtown: do you think it could be a version of Saturn Worship in this universe?
Good stuff, can't wait for more.
Ahhh Preston going ham since moving to Taiwan. There has been so many videos!
Can't wait for parts 2-...n :)
19:38 - got artist's credit for this awesome Ygritte art?
I really want this to be a good show. I hope if it is good and successful they can maybe move to the blackfyre rebellions which are my favorite period of asoiaf.
If the Evenstar of Tarth were complicit in Aemon's death, that'd put them in alignment Team Oldtown, along with the Hightowers, with whom they sort of share status as uber quasi-mythic First Men nobility who pragmatically accepted all Andal benefits
Imagine trying to find a “real truth” to a work of fiction. A quest worthy of Chad Summerchild!
I simultaneously cringe at these people for being so invested in it, but here I am watching their videos. I tip my cap to them for making a living off it, and I’m also thankful for the good content…. BUT:
What if we had a Real Culture full of Real Events that are equally interesting and worthy of pride, worthy of (accurate) documentation?
Worthy of telling the stories (songs) to our children so they have a vague guide of what they could choose to look up to. Actual, Real Life Heroes.
Reminds me of that comic book guy joke from the Simpsons
"It didn't really happen"
"None of these things ever *really* happened"
"...get out of my store"
@@jamesb6857 I don’t get it
@@ingolfringolfrson1577 You and Crusty Nuggets are proving my point….. and when you say “I don’t understand what you mean by “proving” your point”…. You’re proving it again.
@@ingolfringolfrson1577 I can’t understand what you mean. THAT is a bit ironic, even thought my statement isn’t trying to be THAT sarcastic or THAT mean.
Find someone else to reply to pls.
Preston I just peed I'm so excited. Can't wait to see how this series develops. As this is my favorite ASOIAF period, I wrote an alternative history where Aemon and Baelon rival Maegor the Cruel's heir, who has spent her life preparing, hidden away in the walls of the Red Keep. It's called 'Baelon, Alyssa and the rats of the Red Keep: A Different Dance' on Fanfiction dot net. Shameless promo but sharing in case anyone loves this period as much as I do 🥰 🐉
If there isn't a scene with Septon Barth going to use the privy and Alyssa sticks her head out of the toilet and goes "Guess I shoulda taken that left turn at Albuquerque" then regretfully I must decline this invitation.
Ice and Fire needs more Bugs Bunny
Make your own characters, you owe it to yourself.
Me likely 👍🏽👍🏽
I wanna see it. 🤣🤣🤣
If there was only a way to do a show on the whole story line from start to finish and how it’s supposed to be done , we will never get to see about the blackfyre rebellion or when the andols came or how the house Dane got it’s start ! I’m in love with everything from letter one to the last period
Awwwww SHIT!
This gonna be my new favorite series. Thanks Meister P 👌🏿
Oh baby new Preston series, love to see it
Cool. Once this is done do this for the entire book series
"the reader is not supposed to question, or reinterpret things"
//readers rigorously combing through history of middle-earth volumes, tolkien's old scrap notes, letters and parallels to tolkien's life// were we not?
(since it was published posthumously, one can't say for certain the story is 100% what the author wanted; there's plenty of contradictory information in there and at some point tolkien wrote it, as though it were a history being told or chronicled by historians such as pengolodh or aelfwine, plus the added layer of tolkien essentially treating the story as though he's translating it from old english, which was then a translation from quenya)
Although to be fair the Elves had much more access to primary sources. Namely the Valar and even themselves for the later stuff. They are immortal after all,
@@gavinsmith9871 True, but there's definite political motives involved in the Silm, the first half is pretty much dominated by a series of political (and later also cultural) conflicts; the primary source is purported to be a "Pengolodh", who, as an elf of Gondolin, spends most of the First Age sequestered away in the hidden city, etc. etc.
I absolutely love the idea it was the maesters all along! Would explain so many unusual ‘tragic’ deaths and decisions through out Targ history
Preston has a series on it, it's old but still good. It's called Dragonless Ambitions if you haven't heard of it
Couldn't Baelon and Ameon be considered of equal achievement if you consider their dragons? Like yes Baelon has fewer titles and deeds to his name but his dragon is one of the biggest ones by far, especially compared to Aemon's much younger dragon. If opinion of Jaehaerys is swayed by dragon size Rhaenys also has a smaller dragon. Jaehaerys could just have picked the person with the largest dragon. Oldtown would allow Baelon to be heir believing that dragon size is less important than dragon hatching.
It's actually crazy that all this was caused by time traveling bran. GRRM is such a clever writer.
No it’s not. Did you even watch Prestons series on TTB? Bran can’t change events before his conception as that risks leading to him not being born
@@theJuulJournal Who needs to be born if you can just time travel?
Nine if it happened it’s all just a fever dream in the mind of the blue eyed giant makumbo
Let’s not forget that George had a story named fevre dream and there are dream sending hive mind fungi in men of grey water station
And when in a fever you may be constipated, and what do you eat when constipated? Bran!
Yeah I just went full Preston
🤣
@@mrnotimeman396 If he isn’t born then he can’t time travel though
@@theJuulJournal Since when you time travel you are just a consciousness in the weirwood net you don't need to be born to be there you just have to be there.
What fascinates me about the prelude to war is the circumstances under which Laena wound up with Vhagar, bearing in mind her mother Rhaenys may have been the only dragonrider in the world at that point, which made her de facto Protector of the Realm despite her alienation over the succession.
How when prince daemon was also a dragon rider was alive and well then?
@@jeffreym8503 I've found it unclear when Daemon 1st mounted Caraxes, iirc no mention of it when he summoned swords to back Viserys in GC101. In any event he wouldn't have been near as proficient as Rhaenys
@@bram_412 well just going off of the point in time you mentioned in your initial comment by the time laena claimed Vhagar as her dragon daemon was most certainly a dragon rider
Looking forward to this one.
A question occured to me.
The Citadel is against magic, prophecy and everything of the sort, but the Hightowers, who are patrons of the Citadel and basically own it, are partial to all those things the Citadel is against.
So why does the Citadel not share the worldview of the Hightowers?
I think he briefly addressed that question in his Dragonless Ambitions series. His take was that the oldtown forces want a monopoly on magic and prophecy and it's interpretation. However, that's an old series and he's likely changed his perspective since, so who's to say
"I'm going to do something productive, I'll put some video on as I work. Oh nice a new Preston video!" Went on to not be productive.
GRRM PLANNED IT ALL
Sorry to be a Chad Summerchild here, but this is an AWESOME idea for a series, bro! I always wished that the Fire & Blood episodes of the Game of Thrones Podcast would go more in-depth, and doing this line-by-line, like for Prepping for Winter, is a great idea! At this point GRRM should really be paying Preston for keeping interest in his work so high. This video alone got me more excited for House of the Dragon than any of the trailers!
HELL YEA NEW VIDEO!!!