I've no doubt Oscar did hold Daemon in contempt, but this display was to cement the respect and loyalty of the river lords. Still, only Viserys has ever made Daemon swallow his pride this hard in public, and that was as his older brother and King.
@@nolithagcado837 No sht? OP doesn't say otherwise. We know, and so does Oscar, which is why he used the situation to bend Daemon over his knee and get the political benefit.
MASTERFUL MOVE. Forced Daemon to kill his own man. While he secured his own control over his bannermen by showing Daemon had no loyalty. Completely under the guise of serving justice.
I did not interpret it that way. Brilliant honestly. People hate on the Harrenhal plot but without it we wouldnt get this. And people hate what Daemon has become but I like seeing the nuance that this situation is forcing out of him.
@@TheRealHerbaSchmurba daemon hasnt become anything of which he wasnt already , a troubled man , insecure, violent , courageous and deeply conflicted for better or worse... At the end of the day troubled man make a great character, human and realistic.
@@emanuel81111 i disagree and disagree strongly. Daemon was a callous unremorseful, impulsive, reckless and over rationalizing person who cared only about his own prestige. He believed himself deserving because of strength, and never felt remorse for how he treated Viserys, his kids or Rhaenyra, or for the evil hes done to Rhea Royce and allowed to happen to the small fold by Willem. Daemon deciding to kill Willem, after seeing how Willem’s actions that were done in selfish haste in the name of house Targaryen, is a mirror of Daemon killing the part of himself that acts out with selfish haste for his own gain. He is dispensing justice for Blackwood and against himself. After this Dwemon’s purpose will be reworked. He will no linger be a callous, selfish and rationalizing person, but a loyal fighter who will die for his family. He gained virtue from this ordeal.
@@TheRealHerbaSchmurba have you read my comment? i said Daemon was already merciless, evil, unremorseful, impulsive and reckless person. Hes just the way you said in the last comment, this Harrenhal arc is showing Daemon as he is, he never changed, UNTIL NOW, now Harrenhal is showing him all his flaws, all his inner conflict, all the bad stuff he has made, hes in a sort of magical inner therapy with himself and the weirwood tree. Now Daemon starts to realize hes far far from what he thinks he is, a little kid is putting him in his place, his own actions betrays him , people hate him. Now he realizes hes not made to be a king. He should focus himself on being a good husband, a good father, thats what really matter...
@@b16gav75standing armies always rebel too. Look at ottomans, they didn't even have lord things, only rulet is pretty much the Sultan and few governers yet still army rebelled against the throne countless of time
@@texasincolorado This period feels like peak Riverlands! House Tully is at its more honorable and powerful with young Lord Oscar, and so are House Frey compared to what they would become more than a century later. _(sad, really)_
I read a lot of people talking up how "Daemon was owned by a child," which is factually true; but Oscar Tully made a master play. Pretending to be a callow youth he tapped Daemon's arrogance and overconfidence, causing him to openly reveal his real character and intentions. Then by publicly forcing Daemon to accept his chastisement and bend to his will, Oscar cemented the respect and loyalty of the river lords.
Correct. The boy is clearly much more intelligent than he let on. However, he really HAD to go about things that way because if his just followed Daemon's lead like a puppy dog, they were never going to follow him. He played his hand perfectly. He secured respect and tamed a rabid dog, for the time being...
That's what happens when you actually RAISE your heirs instead of relying on dragons to be your entire personality. Targaryens spent so long above the politics of other houses that when they come across those who can actually play the game they get stumped.
@@aintsleptinninetyyears3621 Yep. People don't entirely get why most of these Great Houses ruled for hundreds or, in certain cases like the Starks and Lannisters, THOUSANDS of years. You have to be politically cunning, ruthless, and generous all in equal measure to get otherwise unruly nobles (Boltons, Freys, Reynes, etc) in line and serving your every whim. As a certain Italian philosopher once said, it's better to be feared than loved, but it's best to be both, and you must altogether avoid being hated.
Yeah but oscer was raised really well by grover Tully, aegon was to be heir to the iron chair as was his birthright but instead viserys shat on him and chose a girl who breaks all the rules with zero consequences and from the looks of things completely neglected the green children. And aemond is a cut above the rest.
Oscar Tully is now officially my favorite character. What a badass little lad! And at such a young age with so much inexperience and uncertainty weighting on him! *But he pushed through.* And showed why he deserves to be *Lord Paramount of the Riverlands.*
I've no doubt Oscar's grandfather had been training him for this day. He not only showed great poise and confidence, but he knew to play up his youth with Daemon to completely sucker him.This, Daemon Targaryen, is how you play the game of thrones.
You honestly can see his personality in the way Catelyn is, Ayra, Robb, and Sansa once she wisens up massively throughout the fire & ice series. I love it
@@phaexal You're right, tho funnily it's the other Stark siblings who are supposed to look Tully. Book! Arya has the Stark slender long face, with grey eyes. In the show it's switched and Arya has a round face, while Sansa has a long one.
Not sure irl, but in Westeros that's not true. Every lord, paramount or petty, every night, landed or not, are sworn an outh to the crown and to their direct liege. This multi-allegience is a big issue in every conflict or civil war in Westeros. Most lords, including ones in this scene, need to be knighted in order to be decently respected by vassals. So basically they swear to the king mire than once in their life time.
@@alirezadehghani5873 exactly. Jamie Lannister points it in a monologue, where he explains that he, as a knight is forced to swear complete obedience to many powers, and when they are in conflict you will need to break allegiance with some of them. This is obviously true for medieval ages as well. You can't be simultaneously loyal to your king and your baron, since your baron and king might go to war. There is no way to reconcile this problem, because it is not a bug but a feature.
Oscar Tully proved himself to not be a pushover at such a young age even though I thought he'd just cower before Daemond. What a legend, probably will be a great lord if he doesn't die immediately.
@@gooby214he's saying that including "consort" is bad for him since daemon didn't like that part of it. But I personally believe He sealed his fate once he initiated bending the knee to Oscar and letting him judge the issue and not the higher authority Daemon.
@@alirezadehghani5873 And what he said still doesn't make sense. Calling Daemon king consort is absolutely not why Daemon killed him. I'm pretty sure Daemon at this point didn't even care or paid attention. Blackwood sealed his fate when he agreed to do Daemon's dirty work, believing he had his protection. But what Daemon wanted was the River lords swords even if he had to sacrifice Blackwood to get them. When Oscar told Daemon: "make your choice: it's our swords and Blackwood's head or you can go f... yourself" then he was virtually dead. Calling him "king consort" or "god emperor of the universe" wouldn't change anything.
@@alirezadehghani5873 the "consort" part is vital when it comes to displaying loyalty to Rhaenyra. When someone calls someone "Queen" one does not imediatly assume supreme authority as queens are usually merely the wife of the king. The word "King" alone imediatly presumes supreme authority which is why kings who were merely the husbands of rulling queens needed to be refered as "king consort" or some other name, otherwise people might mistake them as rhe supreme authority.
Oscar is exactly how Bran should’ve been presented in seasons 6, 7 and 8. The kid is smart as a whip, not because he has magical powers but because he uses deductive reasoning and raw logic to make his points and reach his conclusions. In game of thrones we were constantly told Bran was exceptionally intelligent and practically all knowing. In house of the dragon they just SHOW us that Oscar is smart by him talking circles around Daemon and ultimately getting what he wants.
It’s kinda of funny to think that this is Jon’s ancestor having to deal with Catelyn’s ancestor hating him but willing tolerating him and agreeing his men to him. I guess the Tully disliking Targaryens but putting up with them is genetic.
While what you are saying might have some merit, the Targaryens and the Tullys were always in good diplomatic relations, even more so because the dragonlords freed them from the ironborn.
@@salutethemajor2 He was referring to Daemon Targaryen as Jon's ancestor since Jon and Daenerys are descended from the direct line between Daemon and Rhaenyra
It’s funny because Willem is also Jon’s ancestor through Blackwoods who married into House Targaryen. Or at least they share blood-I’m aware that Willem is Samwell’s brother and Ben’s uncle in the show, and likely hadn’t married by this scene.
What he lacks in experience, he compensated with firmness and cunning. The way he rolled the River Lords' opinions on this meeting was masterful. _Ironically, Daemon is the one who could stand to learn a thing or two from him._ 😂
The Blackwoods were originally a northern house before they were chased off to the Riverlands by the Starks, they worship the Old Gods and Trials by Combat are a thing in the Faith of the Seven
@@GabagoolGangAt the same time, they have their own honor based combat system, much like how Knights and Northern Cavalry although differing in religion and armor hold effectively the same standing
Edmure's too. The show did him utterly dirty. He's actually one of the most moral figures in the books. He's reckless and pompous, sure, but when Tywin Lannister marches on the fords, he opens his gates and allows the riverfolk to hide behind his walls while he personally leads his army to fight.
This is yet more evidence (as if any more were needed) that Daemon has no business wearing the crown. When he threatened the Brackens with dragon fire only to back down, he should have known then that he wasn't fit to wear the crown. He always thought that Viserys was weak. But it is he who has proven himself not only weak but shortsighted time and time again.
Nah. As daemon would have had the crown already on his side without a divided realm. The mad king and many failures before show the lack of political tact needed. Even if the eventual collective used force from the start it would have saved the entire unfortunate end to this conflict between kin. If all the dragons flew to kings landing immediately.
Whatever the political situation, Daemon was always an a-hole. His notion of strength is skill and courage in battle, which he has. But the strength required for self-discipline, patience, restraint, he not only lacks but has never understood.
@@TheRealHerbaSchmurba OP said he has no business wearing the crown, I replied that none of that matters with a united realm with no ambiguities to succession. Aegon is not better for example. Aemon ruling in stead does not have those qualities. And the whole Targaryen line who sat the iron throne has only a few examples better than Daemon. Daemon was right, if they flew their collective strength to kings landing and removed vhagar with meleys and caraxas it was already over. Targaryen history shows that they always brought more peace to the realm with force. Not politics.
Being "weak" or "strong" have nothing to do with being worthy of the crown You need to possess a mind for politics Politics is at its base the formation of contracts and understandings between people...and Daemon is a bull in a China shop...the very antithesis of politics
Oscar going from being a nervous and indecisive teen to a firmly locked-in leader of men in all 2 episodes he’s in, while still being a believable transition, is a testament to the actors talent.
Even just in this scene he admits to being young and too inexperienced to do anything but default to a promise made before he was even born. *But* using the knowledge to gain an advantage over Daemon while honoring the old ways and getting the respect of the other families. Literally going from being a “boy” to “young lord” in 2 mins.
@@beckyweiss6072They were an easter egg that got shuffled forward. Ironically, if you wanna see Henson do medieval dynasty war, go watch the Dark Crystal series. It's recent.
That's a very clever move coming from such a young man! He almost convinced Daemon that he would be a good puppet and the moment Daemon uplifted him, he showed his true colour...Smart lad! Daemon was just too proud and arrogant to realize it earlier. The face he made while killing Willem was Priceless! 😂😂
This was one of the best scenes of the season. Such a dark and eerie mood, the atmosphere grew more tense each minute, you could feel something unpleasant had to occur in order for this problem to be solved. And the slow revelation of Oscar being no more innocent than the rest of the adults who surround him was well done.
It's sad to think that the young Willem Blackwood was courageous when he was a child too (like Oscar Tully is now), but he corrupted himself listening to a demon like Deamon Targaryen.
I don't think he was corrupted by Daemon as he already had a strong hatred for the Brackens. Especially after they killed his brother at the burning mill.
@@TimberlakeTigerGirlhe was already corrupted and savage…what kind of person annihilates another over a snide comment no matter how much animosity is btw their houses…like Olenna Tyrell said sometimes you need to work with your enemies to be successful….glad Willem was dealt with he was a Ramsay like evil savage
@TimberlakeTigerGirl Yeah look up their history. They'd intentionally make sure they're on opposite sides of any civil conflict for an excuse to kill eachother. That hatred between them is over a thousand years old and still strong. Its eveb prevalent in daemon's great grandkids who are half bracken and half blackwood bastards of aegon iv
He killed a guy over an insult in season 1, people cheered back then because he was punching up against a bully who was older than him. In this season he targets women and children and he is punching down hence why people's perception of him changed. But even in season 1 his actions were not morally good.
And in that situation it wouldn't have mattered anyway. Daemon needs these people, burning them would cost him all he was trying to get. Besides, he already tried that with the Brackens, and failed miserably.
@@fireandblood2919 alot of people dont realize this... When Oscar went up to him and asked if he needs the army or not lol that is Oscar telling him to play along...
Dude I hate this portrayal of Daemon. He should have come to that meeting on Caraxes and burned anyone who didn’t fight for him. If Oscar wanted to play games maybe the next Tully won’t.
I hope we see his brother and the rest of the Blackwoods Literally the best part of the Dance is not the battles of knights but the guerrilla war of Riverlands against thouse armies Is like hunting in a zoo
Daemon did what needed to be done to secure House Tully and the Rivermen for Rhaenyra's cause. He paid penance for what he did (though Willem DID go off-script and did things he was instructed not to do). Similar to how he insteucted Blood & Cheese and THEY went off-script. He even publicly admitted his personal failings here. This actually did show a lot of growth in Daemon. I wonder if he now accepts that he is not the heir for a reason and fully supports Rhaenyra now...
The kid had to talk to him like that if all the other houses were to follow a boy daemon bit his tongue because he got what the boy was trying to do and he would lose 1 man an gained an army
God, I can’t WAIT til we get all Three of the Lads in this show. No inbred blondes, no insane magics, just three young men who rise above their age to fulfill their duty and station
I don’t see why the Blackwoods would want to fight for the blacks and Daemon at this point. I think offering some financial compensation or some resources would’ve been the better way to handle it. Why wouldn’t the Blackwoods go turncloak? The Karstark’s betrayed Robb when he killed Rickard the lord of Karhold
A master stroke by a young Oscar. He stripped Daemon of his only Riverland ally, appeased his own bannermen, and now has full control of his kingdom, while also now being able to side with Rhaenyra. Only drawback is he will have the animosity of House Blackwood (wonder how they'll handle Benjicot Blackwood if at all) for the sake of the Brackens.
There was no trial for Willem. Trial by combat is for those whose guilt has not fully been determined. Willem is deemed guilty already here. No trial at all is required. All he could do was ask to be allowed to take the black.
I love the layers in this scene. Oscar exposed the intention of Willem to commit atrocities and hide behind the crown(Daemon). Willem and Daemon were using each other for their own ends. The difference between Daemon and Willem is that, when confronted about their intentions, Daemon admits his self-interest and desires. Willem lies and plays the " Daemon told me to do it. I listen to my leaders, i was just being a good subordinate" angle. Everyone knows he did it because he wanted to out of malice and disdain for the Brackens. It was easy for Daemon to execute him after he tried to throw Daemon under the bus multiple times. He even flew royal banners while committing war crimes of his own volition. Which further proves Oscars point and makes him the snake who betrayed Daemon and not the other way around.
I agree with almost everything you said, except that it was easy for Daemon to execute Willem. Willem had actually been a willing and loyal henchman, doing what his liege wanted albeit not the way he wanted it. Daemon was forced to betray that loyalty, and you can see the grief that caused Daemon on his face after beheading Willem.
Oscar Tully securing his own rule under the laws and traditions of the land while at the same time putting Daemon in his place that he will excercise no control over the River Lands without the Tully's. I read the books and still didnt' see this coming. Harrenhal plot was worth it for this scene.
In case you dont know, Oscar has a brother named Kermit and their father's name is Elmo and as you know their granfather's name is Grover. named after Sesame street characters.
I suppose some people might already mentioned this in other comments. But each time I watched this, I just imagined a fish (like the one in Spongebob) slapping a dragon like Caraxes, telling it to not f**k things up next time.
No swords drawn, no passive aggression no "mucho" tough guy pretentious act. Just verbal humiliation & command from Lord Tully. What a based lad, I f*cking kneel. Absolutely buckbroke Daemon.🧎♂️✊🏿😂
The amazing woman who calls for the old ways and justice to be done - she was not lying - those northern Magics and their hallucinogenic body possessing tree bird powers
The kid wasnt trying to own daemon in anyway. This was truely the only way to get everyone to fall in line. He didnt like the way things had to go down anymore than daemon did.
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Daemon: “I have a dragon.”
Oscar: “I have early GOT dialogue.”
And early GOT writers
The fact he jus keeps verbally slaping dameon is hilarious
I've no doubt Oscar did hold Daemon in contempt, but this display was to cement the respect and loyalty of the river lords. Still, only Viserys has ever made Daemon swallow his pride this hard in public, and that was as his older brother and King.
Daemond needed Tullys bannermen
A true lad
@@givemeyourpath lad paramount
@@nolithagcado837 No sht? OP doesn't say otherwise.
We know, and so does Oscar, which is why he used the situation to bend Daemon over his knee and get the political benefit.
MASTERFUL MOVE.
Forced Daemon to kill his own man. While he secured his own control over his bannermen by showing Daemon had no loyalty. Completely under the guise of serving justice.
I did not interpret it that way. Brilliant honestly. People hate on the Harrenhal plot but without it we wouldnt get this. And people hate what Daemon has become but I like seeing the nuance that this situation is forcing out of him.
@@TheRealHerbaSchmurba daemon hasnt become anything of which he wasnt already , a troubled man , insecure, violent , courageous and deeply conflicted for better or worse...
At the end of the day troubled man make a great character, human and realistic.
@@emanuel81111 i disagree and disagree strongly. Daemon was a callous unremorseful, impulsive, reckless and over rationalizing person who cared only about his own prestige. He believed himself deserving because of strength, and never felt remorse for how he treated Viserys, his kids or Rhaenyra, or for the evil hes done to Rhea Royce and allowed to happen to the small fold by Willem. Daemon deciding to kill Willem, after seeing how Willem’s actions that were done in selfish haste in the name of house Targaryen, is a mirror of Daemon killing the part of himself that acts out with selfish haste for his own gain. He is dispensing justice for Blackwood and against himself. After this Dwemon’s purpose will be reworked. He will no linger be a callous, selfish and rationalizing person, but a loyal fighter who will die for his family. He gained virtue from this ordeal.
@@TheRealHerbaSchmurba have you read my comment? i said Daemon was already merciless, evil, unremorseful, impulsive and reckless person.
Hes just the way you said in the last comment, this Harrenhal arc is showing Daemon as he is, he never changed, UNTIL NOW, now Harrenhal is showing him all his flaws, all his inner conflict, all the bad stuff he has made, hes in a sort of magical inner therapy with himself and the weirwood tree.
Now Daemon starts to realize hes far far from what he thinks he is, a little kid is putting him in his place, his own actions betrays him , people hate him. Now he realizes hes not made to be a king. He should focus himself on being a good husband, a good father, thats what really matter...
But he also gave Daemon an opportunity to reconcile himself with the Riverlands army.
1:20 "Will you have our army or not?" I love how Lord Oscar Tully asserted his authority over Daemon, making it clear that he is in control.
And I love that when he said that, Daemon couldn't meet his gaze.
Proves an uncomfortable fact: Joffrey was right, the crown needed a standing army, not a mass of squabbling lords.
@@b16gav75standing armies always rebel too. Look at ottomans, they didn't even have lord things, only rulet is pretty much the Sultan and few governers yet still army rebelled against the throne countless of time
He should tell that to Cersie and John snow during a truce meeting. :D
@@b16gav75That's why Robert succumbed to Tywin. Tywin had an army
Oscar was playing chess while Daemon was playing rock em sock em robots
Daemon was playing Luigi's Mansion.
@@Borderose😂😂😂
😂😂😂
@@ΠαναγιώτηςΛ.Κορκόκιος ΠΑΤΡΙΔΑ,κι εσυ εδω..???
@@HELLENISM-HELLASΝαι, πρέπει να είμαστε οι μοναδικοί!
Daemon Targaryen the rouge prince, rider of caraxes, wielder of dark sister, just got utterly destroyed by a child
Because thé Targaryen are stupid!
You lack the brain capacity to understand the true meaning of the scene.
Not exactly a child, a young man, it's easy to see how the Tully's became so honorable
The kid is also helping Daemon by getting people back on his side
@@texasincolorado This period feels like peak Riverlands!
House Tully is at its more honorable and powerful with young Lord Oscar, and so are House Frey compared to what they would become more than a century later. _(sad, really)_
I read a lot of people talking up how "Daemon was owned by a child," which is factually true; but Oscar Tully made a master play. Pretending to be a callow youth he tapped Daemon's arrogance and overconfidence, causing him to openly reveal his real character and intentions. Then by publicly forcing Daemon to accept his chastisement and bend to his will, Oscar cemented the respect and loyalty of the river lords.
Correct. The boy is clearly much more intelligent than he let on. However, he really HAD to go about things that way because if his just followed Daemon's lead like a puppy dog, they were never going to follow him. He played his hand perfectly. He secured respect and tamed a rabid dog, for the time being...
That's what happens when you actually RAISE your heirs instead of relying on dragons to be your entire personality. Targaryens spent so long above the politics of other houses that when they come across those who can actually play the game they get stumped.
@@aintsleptinninetyyears3621 Yep. People don't entirely get why most of these Great Houses ruled for hundreds or, in certain cases like the Starks and Lannisters, THOUSANDS of years. You have to be politically cunning, ruthless, and generous all in equal measure to get otherwise unruly nobles (Boltons, Freys, Reynes, etc) in line and serving your every whim. As a certain Italian philosopher once said, it's better to be feared than loved, but it's best to be both, and you must altogether avoid being hated.
@@ladygrey7425yeah even the Hightowers have been playing this game as long as the Starks and Lannisters can be.
Does well for a man named after a Sesame Street character.
Oscar Tully had straight up Bane "do you feel in charge" energy in the scene.
He definitely giving stark energy
The grandson Tywin & Otto always wanted.
hahahah true
Yeah but oscer was raised really well by grover Tully, aegon was to be heir to the iron chair as was his birthright but instead viserys shat on him and chose a girl who breaks all the rules with zero consequences and from the looks of things completely neglected the green children. And aemond is a cut above the rest.
More like Hoster Tully's dream child - the heir he tried to raise Catelyn & Edmure to be.
Oscar Tully is now officially my favorite character. What a badass little lad! And at such a young age with so much inexperience and uncertainty weighting on him! *But he pushed through.* And showed why he deserves to be *Lord Paramount of the Riverlands.*
I've no doubt Oscar's grandfather had been training him for this day. He not only showed great poise and confidence, but he knew to play up his youth with Daemon to completely sucker him.This, Daemon Targaryen, is how you play the game of thrones.
Yes and the way he denied to kill his grandfather made him my favorite character.
Just goes to show how insanely badass Cregan Stark is since he's going to have Oscar Tully quaking in his boots.
Catelyn and the Blackfish have to get it from somewhere.
@@harpereloise7973Brynden Tully "The Black Fish" Too is my favorite of House Tully.
Oscar’s courage makes Willem Blackwood look like a child 😂
Which is a huge irony, considering the age gap between the two 😅
What a dumbass comment. It's very easy to have courage when you're vastly more powerful.
Remember...tully's are starks simps
@@tauro4696 Real recognises real
Robb Stark’s ancestor
He kinda looks like early seasons Arya
You honestly can see his personality in the way Catelyn is, Ayra, Robb, and Sansa once she wisens up massively throughout the fire & ice series. I love it
Not really. Oscar executing Blackwood was a very good move. Robb executing Karstark was utter stupidity.
Through his mother's line! 🐟😊
@@phaexal You're right, tho funnily it's the other Stark siblings who are supposed to look Tully. Book! Arya has the Stark slender long face, with grey eyes. In the show it's switched and Arya has a round face, while Sansa has a long one.
This reminds me so much of Robb Stark in the books, who is, of course, a descendant of Lord Oscar Tully by way of Robb’s mother, Lady Catelyn.
Funny thing is, Robb was supposed to be about a year or so older than this kid in the show.
@@alexman378 that really doesn't matter?
@@I_am_a_cat_ Just a funny thing to imagine, that’s kinda what Robb should have looked like.
Robb is from Kermit's line far I know
@@analauramorelrocha2383interesting, thanks for the info!
101 medieval politics: the vassal of my vassal is not my vassal
Not sure irl, but in Westeros that's not true. Every lord, paramount or petty, every night, landed or not, are sworn an outh to the crown and to their direct liege. This multi-allegience is a big issue in every conflict or civil war in Westeros. Most lords, including ones in this scene, need to be knighted in order to be decently respected by vassals. So basically they swear to the king mire than once in their life time.
@@alirezadehghani5873 exactly. Jamie Lannister points it in a monologue, where he explains that he, as a knight is forced to swear complete obedience to many powers, and when they are in conflict you will need to break allegiance with some of them. This is obviously true for medieval ages as well. You can't be simultaneously loyal to your king and your baron, since your baron and king might go to war. There is no way to reconcile this problem, because it is not a bug but a feature.
Crusader Kings 2 players: "Absolutely"
@@alirezadehghani5873irl that proverb is true
Oscar Tully proved himself to not be a pushover at such a young age even though I thought he'd just cower before Daemond. What a legend, probably will be a great lord if he doesn't die immediately.
Aemond and Vhagar will burn most of the riverlands, they will never recover. I don't know if he dies though.
@@VNuxionRiverlands will recover, because Aemond and Vhagar is not invincible, they both bleed, they both die.
@@ka-boom2083 Do you know what "recover" means?
@@VNuxionHe lives, at least in the books.
@@VNuxion yes, to return to its former glory. Which it did, after Vhagar got its throat ripped out
Oscar Tully might not be a dragon rider, but he definitely is a dragon humbler.
If he had Valyrian blood I don't doubt a dragon would accept him as its rider.
@@danieldickson8591He might ride a giant trout one day, that would make even the largest of dragons tremble before it.
I dunno he just rode Daemon pretty hard 😂
This comment is underrated 😂
2:12 The war crimes didn't help, but Blackwood really sealed his fate when he called Daemon king "consort"
Daemon IS the king consort of Rhaenyra.
@@gooby214he's saying that including "consort" is bad for him since daemon didn't like that part of it. But I personally believe He sealed his fate once he initiated bending the knee to Oscar and letting him judge the issue and not the higher authority Daemon.
@@alirezadehghani5873
And what he said still doesn't make sense. Calling Daemon king consort is absolutely not why Daemon killed him. I'm pretty sure Daemon at this point didn't even care or paid attention. Blackwood sealed his fate when he agreed to do Daemon's dirty work, believing he had his protection. But what Daemon wanted was the River lords swords even if he had to sacrifice Blackwood to get them. When Oscar told Daemon: "make your choice: it's our swords and Blackwood's head or you can go f... yourself" then he was virtually dead. Calling him "king consort" or "god emperor of the universe" wouldn't change anything.
@@alirezadehghani5873 the "consort" part is vital when it comes to displaying loyalty to Rhaenyra. When someone calls someone "Queen" one does not imediatly assume supreme authority as queens are usually merely the wife of the king. The word "King" alone imediatly presumes supreme authority which is why kings who were merely the husbands of rulling queens needed to be refered as "king consort" or some other name, otherwise people might mistake them as rhe supreme authority.
This season really highlights why Daemon isn't fit to be king.
Otto was right. Daemon should have been Maegor II.
Facts
@@uningenieromas he would've been, he wasnt mature enough and was overly indulgent in decadence he had no balanced til the end
@@uningenieromasmaegor was a great king
@@uningenieromas Maegor did nothing wrong
Oscar is exactly how Bran should’ve been presented in seasons 6, 7 and 8. The kid is smart as a whip, not because he has magical powers but because he uses deductive reasoning and raw logic to make his points and reach his conclusions. In game of thrones we were constantly told Bran was exceptionally intelligent and practically all knowing. In house of the dragon they just SHOW us that Oscar is smart by him talking circles around Daemon and ultimately getting what he wants.
It’s kinda of funny to think that this is Jon’s ancestor having to deal with Catelyn’s ancestor hating him but willing tolerating him and agreeing his men to him. I guess the Tully disliking Targaryens but putting up with them is genetic.
I think it made a difference that Jon was raised like a Stark.
While what you are saying might have some merit, the Targaryens and the Tullys were always in good diplomatic relations, even more so because the dragonlords freed them from the ironborn.
Oscar Tully isn’t an ancestor of Jon.
@@salutethemajor2 He was referring to Daemon Targaryen as Jon's ancestor since Jon and Daenerys are descended from the direct line between Daemon and Rhaenyra
It’s funny because Willem is also Jon’s ancestor through Blackwoods who married into House Targaryen. Or at least they share blood-I’m aware that Willem is Samwell’s brother and Ben’s uncle in the show, and likely hadn’t married by this scene.
I like this kid he really reminds me of season 1 robb here
What he lacks in experience, he compensated with firmness and cunning.
The way he rolled the River Lords' opinions on this meeting was masterful. _Ironically, Daemon is the one who could stand to learn a thing or two from him._ 😂
I'd be screaming trial by combat
The Blackwoods were originally a northern house before they were chased off to the Riverlands by the Starks, they worship the Old Gods and Trials by Combat are a thing in the Faith of the Seven
@@GabagoolGangAt the same time, they have their own honor based combat system, much like how Knights and Northern Cavalry although differing in religion and armor hold effectively the same standing
Not sure the old way does trail by combat
He should have said send me to wall. Willem would have been a beast for the night's watch.
Send me to the wall!
Now THIS is Catelyn Tully's and the Blackfish's ancestor.
Edmure's too. The show did him utterly dirty. He's actually one of the most moral figures in the books. He's reckless and pompous, sure, but when Tywin Lannister marches on the fords, he opens his gates and allows the riverfolk to hide behind his walls while he personally leads his army to fight.
@@JimmyStellerSurprised I missed that - Oscar definitely lives in Edmure.
@@JimmySteller Yeah Edmure is legit in the books. In the show he is a bumbling moron.
Don't forget Robb Stark's ancestor!
I love how Daemon looks at Simon like is this kid for real 😂
This is yet more evidence (as if any more were needed) that Daemon has no business wearing the crown. When he threatened the Brackens with dragon fire only to back down, he should have known then that he wasn't fit to wear the crown. He always thought that Viserys was weak. But it is he who has proven himself not only weak but shortsighted time and time again.
Nah. As daemon would have had the crown already on his side without a divided realm. The mad king and many failures before show the lack of political tact needed. Even if the eventual collective used force from the start it would have saved the entire unfortunate end to this conflict between kin. If all the dragons flew to kings landing immediately.
@@dootdoot1867youre bringing up a hypothetical that isnt necessarily related to Daemon’s character. Why?
Whatever the political situation, Daemon was always an a-hole. His notion of strength is skill and courage in battle, which he has. But the strength required for self-discipline, patience, restraint, he not only lacks but has never understood.
@@TheRealHerbaSchmurba OP said he has no business wearing the crown, I replied that none of that matters with a united realm with no ambiguities to succession. Aegon is not better for example. Aemon ruling in stead does not have those qualities. And the whole Targaryen line who sat the iron throne has only a few examples better than Daemon. Daemon was right, if they flew their collective strength to kings landing and removed vhagar with meleys and caraxas it was already over. Targaryen history shows that they always brought more peace to the realm with force. Not politics.
Being "weak" or "strong" have nothing to do with being worthy of the crown
You need to possess a mind for politics
Politics is at its base the formation of contracts and understandings between people...and Daemon is a bull in a China shop...the very antithesis of politics
Oscar going from being a nervous and indecisive teen to a firmly locked-in leader of men in all 2 episodes he’s in, while still being a believable transition, is a testament to the actors talent.
Even just in this scene he admits to being young and too inexperienced to do anything but default to a promise made before he was even born. *But* using the knowledge to gain an advantage over Daemon while honoring the old ways and getting the respect of the other families. Literally going from being a “boy” to “young lord” in 2 mins.
Dang, after the Riddler killed his father that kid really learned how to handle bullies.
The muppet Tullys are just too awesome.
There is no elmo or kermit in the show, only Oscar sadly
But if this is how they portray Oscar for next season, then that's all good
@@tazkannon7403While never on screen they did mention Grover Tully on multiple occasions.
I always found those names distractingly cute.
@@danieldickson8591the best part is George was deliberate with the names 😂
@@beckyweiss6072They were an easter egg that got shuffled forward.
Ironically, if you wanna see Henson do medieval dynasty war, go watch the Dark Crystal series. It's recent.
That's a very clever move coming from such a young man! He almost convinced Daemon that he would be a good puppet and the moment Daemon uplifted him, he showed his true colour...Smart lad! Daemon was just too proud and arrogant to realize it earlier. The face he made while killing Willem was Priceless! 😂😂
This was one of the best scenes of the season. Such a dark and eerie mood, the atmosphere grew more tense each minute, you could feel something unpleasant had to occur in order for this problem to be solved. And the slow revelation of Oscar being no more innocent than the rest of the adults who surround him was well done.
2:39 is such incredible acting. It sort of blows me away.
Am I the only one who REALLY enjoyed the way Daemon unsheathed his sword and raised it over his head? So smooth, so elegant!
"Oh dear..."
Love that line
It's sad to think that the young Willem Blackwood was courageous when he was a child too (like Oscar Tully is now), but he corrupted himself listening to a demon like Deamon Targaryen.
I don't think he was corrupted by Daemon as he already had a strong hatred for the Brackens. Especially after they killed his brother at the burning mill.
@@TimberlakeTigerGirlhe was already corrupted and savage…what kind of person annihilates another over a snide comment no matter how much animosity is btw their houses…like Olenna Tyrell said sometimes you need to work with your enemies to be successful….glad Willem was dealt with he was a Ramsay like evil savage
@TimberlakeTigerGirl Yeah look up their history. They'd intentionally make sure they're on opposite sides of any civil conflict for an excuse to kill eachother. That hatred between them is over a thousand years old and still strong. Its eveb prevalent in daemon's great grandkids who are half bracken and half blackwood bastards of aegon iv
@@brendanmuller7301bittersteel and bloodraven
He killed a guy over an insult in season 1, people cheered back then because he was punching up against a bully who was older than him. In this season he targets women and children and he is punching down hence why people's perception of him changed. But even in season 1 his actions were not morally good.
A dragon only makes a great threat when it’s standing right there to protect you. Daemon should have checked his ego
And in that situation it wouldn't have mattered anyway. Daemon needs these people, burning them would cost him all he was trying to get. Besides, he already tried that with the Brackens, and failed miserably.
@@danieldickson8591 was he not embarrassed?
@@cureforintroversion1262 one of the reasons why he didnt know politics as well as he thought he did, hence Viserys being right about him
He needs the River Lords to respect young lord Oscar. Lord paramount
@@fireandblood2919 alot of people dont realize this... When Oscar went up to him and asked if he needs the army or not lol that is Oscar telling him to play along...
He really embodied the House Tully words, "Family, Duty, Gag Him, Honor."
Before Lyanna Mormont, there was Oscar Tully
Dude I hate this portrayal of Daemon. He should have come to that meeting on Caraxes and burned anyone who didn’t fight for him. If Oscar wanted to play games maybe the next Tully won’t.
the actor that plays Oscar Tully is a real good choice and reminds me of how clever the drunken dwarf Tyrion was
Fun fact: the kid who plays Oscar is the Mayor's Son from The Batman.
I was so immersed in this scene. They killed it!
I hope we see his brother and the rest of the Blackwoods
Literally the best part of the Dance is not the battles of knights but the guerrilla war of Riverlands against thouse armies
Is like hunting in a zoo
oscar tully the prince that was promised
Oscar's Grandfather taught him well. Daemon wanted Oscar to boss up. When he did, he played by his own rules.
Daemon did what needed to be done to secure House Tully and the Rivermen for Rhaenyra's cause. He paid penance for what he did (though Willem DID go off-script and did things he was instructed not to do). Similar to how he insteucted Blood & Cheese and THEY went off-script. He even publicly admitted his personal failings here. This actually did show a lot of growth in Daemon. I wonder if he now accepts that he is not the heir for a reason and fully supports Rhaenyra now...
I love that Daemon just has to sit there and eat it, too. Caraxes somewhere munching on a goat like “…. Eh”
The only sensible thing Daemon has done since arriving at Harrenhal....
Alys Rivers was right, House Tully has a lot of wisdom that held the Riverlands together. Maybe Daemon ought to learn a thing or two from Oscar.
Ollie is just respawning and forever living in Westeros World. Undead Ollie.
Really shows why and how the Tully’s have stayed on top so long. Also Oscar Tully’s actor did great. He’s got the voice for the role!
I also note that Daemon is no longer rankling under the title of "King Consort".
Oh, he's rankling under it, all right. His face looks like he was kicked in the nuts. But he has to tolerate it.
He literally got toyed with by a kid! Smart kid though
Daemon and Oscar kind of bring a funny rick and morty energy hope they form an awkward friendship and continue to crack us up
Oscar is significantly wiser than his age would let on.
"I am in the end a Rivermen" Powerful
The kid had to talk to him like that if all the other houses were to follow a boy daemon bit his tongue because he got what the boy was trying to do and he would lose 1 man an gained an army
Daemon is like "that's all I have to do?"
God, I can’t WAIT til we get all Three of the Lads in this show. No inbred blondes, no insane magics, just three young men who rise above their age to fulfill their duty and station
Considering they seemingly snapped away the muppets, I wonder if they're going to pick extras from other houses to fill their shoes
I don't think we're getting them since they've seemingly melded Elmo with Oscar
Meh. Boros Baratheon>>>the lads
@DecimusPrime-xg4zi Someone should have told him that before he let his army get broken and got killed by Kermit when he charged at him.
@@calebbonney4193 Still went out like a Chad Killing a dozen men
Hey Daemon told him not to put up the Targ flag when he sent Blackwood to pillage. He put the flag up and the Riverlords knew it was Daemon.
What a waste of Willem Blackwood 😭
I know such a badass damn it!!!!
I hope aegon wins for the greens at this point after him and sunfyre scene
I don’t see why the Blackwoods would want to fight for the blacks and Daemon at this point. I think offering some financial compensation or some resources would’ve been the better way to handle it. Why wouldn’t the Blackwoods go turncloak? The Karstark’s betrayed Robb when he killed Rickard the lord of Karhold
@@wintergreen2.073 they know not too kill peasants who are servants of the tullys unlike willem
@@Homeless-mma The brackens were badass!! They choose fire!!!
King Consort - ouch.
Daemon is a warrior but not a politician
1:20 ''Mind your tongue,BOY'' says Rogue Prince,calmly.
one of my fav part of the series.. had no idea what was going to happen.
A master stroke by a young Oscar. He stripped Daemon of his only Riverland ally, appeased his own bannermen, and now has full control of his kingdom, while also now being able to side with Rhaenyra. Only drawback is he will have the animosity of House Blackwood (wonder how they'll handle Benjicot Blackwood if at all) for the sake of the Brackens.
2:30 bracken smirken back there😂
Definition of "Nearly threw hands with a 13 years old"
It's great example of old polish proberb "wasal mojego wasal nie jest moim wasalem" ("My vassal's vassal is not my vassal").
I'm surprised that Blackwood didn't ask for a trial by combat.
There was no trial for Willem. Trial by combat is for those whose guilt has not fully been determined. Willem is deemed guilty already here. No trial at all is required. All he could do was ask to be allowed to take the black.
Daemon the diplomat. 😅
I love the layers in this scene. Oscar exposed the intention of Willem to commit atrocities and hide behind the crown(Daemon).
Willem and Daemon were using each other for their own ends.
The difference between Daemon and Willem is that, when confronted about their intentions, Daemon admits his self-interest and desires.
Willem lies and plays the " Daemon told me to do it. I listen to my leaders, i was just being a good subordinate" angle.
Everyone knows he did it because he wanted to out of malice and disdain for the Brackens.
It was easy for Daemon to execute him after he tried to throw Daemon under the bus multiple times.
He even flew royal banners while committing war crimes of his own volition. Which further proves Oscars point and makes him the snake who betrayed Daemon and not the other way around.
I agree with almost everything you said, except that it was easy for Daemon to execute Willem. Willem had actually been a willing and loyal henchman, doing what his liege wanted albeit not the way he wanted it. Daemon was forced to betray that loyalty, and you can see the grief that caused Daemon on his face after beheading Willem.
Oscar stood on business
I like this kid already
The boy is absolutely the ancestor of Brynden 'Blackfish' Tully, Robb and Arya.
All the best scenes were at Harenhall this season.
Oscar Tully securing his own rule under the laws and traditions of the land while at the same time putting Daemon in his place that he will excercise no control over the River Lands without the Tully's. I read the books and still didnt' see this coming. Harrenhal plot was worth it for this scene.
(At 3:09) "......He's gone mad with power....like that Albert Schweitzer guy"
In case you dont know, Oscar has a brother named Kermit and their father's name is Elmo and as you know their granfather's name is Grover.
named after Sesame street characters.
I love the woman who is so stoic and resolute in saying “the old ways call for justice” such brilliant acting
This is where Blackfish came from. Oscar Tull, “The Young Fish”
this kid was the best of season 2
I suppose some people might already mentioned this in other comments.
But each time I watched this, I just imagined a fish (like the one in Spongebob) slapping a dragon like Caraxes, telling it to not f**k things up next time.
Family, Duty, Honor.
in that order
No swords drawn, no passive aggression no "mucho" tough guy pretentious act. Just verbal humiliation & command from Lord Tully. What a based lad, I f*cking kneel. Absolutely buckbroke Daemon.🧎♂️✊🏿😂
Tully was like let me tell you how I really feel
The amazing woman who calls for the old ways and justice to be done - she was not lying - those northern Magics and their hallucinogenic body possessing tree bird powers
What a classic GOT scene
Loving the armor concepts per house!
Oscar Bane Tully once said: DO YOU FEEL IN CHARGE?... 😈
It was at this moment that Oscar Tully became one of my favourite characters.
The kid wasnt trying to own daemon in anyway. This was truely the only way to get everyone to fall in line. He didnt like the way things had to go down anymore than daemon did.
This is why you don’t argue with a child, they’ll make you look silly, they got nothing to lose 😭😭
It’s always gonna be the “Oh Dear” for me
"Will you have our army or not?"
Look at my boy's smug smile
Daemon was like, "ok I'll shut up!"
This was a sleepy season with a few rare moments of genuine excitement. This was one of the better scenes, brief as it was.
the harrenal castellan always with the "I don't wanna be here no more" face
Losing your head to a Valyrian Steel sword in front of the the wierwood at Harrenhall is a pretty Blackwood way to go out
“Why should we follow a boy?”
“Watch this boy humble a dragon prince”
Boss move, Lord Tully 👏👏👏👏
Ive heard ups and downs on this show, i didnt want to jump on this one since the tragedy that were GOT Seasons 5-8 , but this scene gave me good vibes