Sony FX30 Cine EI Mode - Intro & Getting Started
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 มิ.ย. 2024
- How to shoot in Cine EI on the Sony FX30 & FX3. Differences between Flexible ISO, Cine EI Quick and Cine EI. Some customized settings are also shared.
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TABLE OF CONTENTS:
0:00 - Intro
0:34 - Ways To Shoot in Slog3
0:59 - What Is Cine EI
1:46 - Exposure Index
2:55 - How To Adjust Exposure
3:29 - Setting Up Cine EI In Camera
4:29 - Custom Settings & How I Use Cine EI
7:05 - Cine EI Quick
7:55 - Cine EI Isn't For Every Situation
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Dude… thank you so much!! I am researching for my first video camera, and you are the only person to make sense of the FX30 and Cine EI.
You are very welcome. Thanks for watching!
Clear and concise! Thank you, good stuff, well presented.
You're welcome. Glad to hear you enjoyed the video. Thanks for watching!
Great video, Josh. You're one of the few people that understand this properly. :)
Thanks!
Honestly I loved how you explained this, you have a craft for teaching I hope you post more videos about the fx30 and debunked things about the camera! Cheers
Glad you enjoyed the video. Thanks for watching!
Hey there! Thank you for all your videos about the FX3, you have been my point of reference since my purchase lol 😭
You explained it the best thank you!
You're welcome. Thanks for watching!
Great vid. Thanks from across the pond.
You're welcome. Thanks for watching!
@@Josh_Sattin - can you help? Why am I getting the message ‘The external recorder is not connected correctly or is not supported?
I have nothing connected to my FX3 … ???
I honestly feel like I can unsubscribe from a lot of the other TH-cam channels now that I've found your channel. Thanks for making these.
You're welcome. I really appreciate the kind words and support. Glad we connected!
Nice job brother ,im learning thanks to your video and stuff keep it up.i have a6400 but im debating between the r7 and the fx 30 wich i think im going to go for because i like to shoot video.more
Glad you are finding the videos helpful! You can't go wrong with either, both are great cameras. If you haven't already seen my comparison video, please check it out: th-cam.com/video/kRnqZq6EaCE/w-d-xo.html
I am curious on how to use catalyst browse to how to adjust ISO to get the right exposure in running gun situations. I do not want to manually change the exposure but instead access the metadata.
I’m guessing this is possible. Can you make a video on that. Explaining the workflow?
I’m guessing we will see a better picture quality doing it this way instead of using flexible ISO in camera. 🤔.
hi josh, perfekt! thank you! but one question: when the light situation ist very bad, how do I get my "real" picure overexposed on +1,7 - +2,0? sometimes ISO 2500 does NOT overexpose at that high? do I have a mistake at thinking ?
Hi Josh! Great explanation of Cine EI but I am very confused about something with the FX30 and I promise this may be a very newby question since I'm new to both Sony and video shooting: Why do I seem to be limited to 1080P when shooting in either flexible ISO or Cine EI? I am connected to a Ninja V recording in ProRes HQ and my image dimensions are always 1080x 1920 saved on the Ninja drive. I thought I should be seeing 4K dimensions here. FX30 is set to 4K and I get 4K dimensions recorded just fine to the camera's SD card. What am I doing wrong...a setting...something about ProRes compression...or just some plain dumbness here? Thanks!
Oh not sure. Lots of variables. Make sure the HDMI output is set to 4K and the settings in the Ninja are also set to 4K. It should be able to do that.
… great video, thx! 👍🏻 so best is never change the EI, that’s sounds logical. But what are reasons to change the EI and what means that for the post production process?
You're welcome. Please check out the full explanation video: th-cam.com/video/oAM1RRcGuss/w-d-xo.html
Hi Josh ! 👋
Thank you for your advices ! You are saving me a lot of time and headhache 😂
You said that if we're not comfortable with shooting in CineEI we can use Slog3 instead, ok for this.
And you also said that if we're using Slog3 in flexible ISO, we must set our ISO to 800 or 2500 to get the best dynamic range.
So, what's the difference between :
- Shooting in flexible ISO Slog3 at 800ISO or 2500ISO
- Shooting in CineEI at 800ISO or 2500ISO
Thank you 👋
You're welcome. They should be basically identical. Check out this video:
th-cam.com/video/c0PCPeo4V08/w-d-xo.html
Is there a way to use my cutom lut in flexible iso mode? It seems like they only allow custom luts in cine ei mode
Basically, it keeps you shooting at best ISO for either bright or lower light environments. Adjust for exposure using aperture, ND or shutter speed. Did I get that right?
new to cine ei. While i dont plan on changing my exposure index often, wouldnt cine ei quick be the exact same but safer to use?
and how do you feel about over exposing 2 stops? I have had the a7iv for over a year and hate the phantom lut that is so popular. they arent made to over expose so i always get noisy footage using phantom luts or anything that isnt 2 stops over.
Cine EI and Cine EI Quick are pretty much the same. The only difference is how you control the EI. I don't change my EI off of the base values very often so I consider Cine EI to be "safer" than Cine EI Quick.
I don't think about overexposing by a certain number of stops. I don't use my exposure meter. Please check out my video that I made about how to expose and grade Slog3: th-cam.com/video/Z4Ic19eP36Y/w-d-xo.html
Hi Josh. Have you tried Flexible ISO? If you have, could you explain what it is? Does the camera change ISO automatically in that mode?
No, it changes iso like we do in normal mode, i think it is best to keep it in ot and shoot at the base iso, cine ei is just a lut we show to the director is what i understood 😂
If you’re shooting with an FX3 and a non-cinema Sony Alpha camera, would you just use Flexible ISO on the FX3 so you can match settings with both? Or would you use Cine EI on the FX3 and S-log 3 on the other camera? (Will be pairing w/ the A7rV)
That is a great question! If you are shooting at the base ISO then it doesn't matter, but I would probably shoot in Flexible ISO on the FX3 just so both cameras operate similarly. It might be less confusing for you. But definitely shoot both cameras in Slog3 either way.
@@Josh_Sattin Thank you!!! Your videos are awesome and extremely helpful.
You're welcome. Thanks for watching them!
First, I want to thank you for all your very informative vids! I have watched all the ones related to the FX3 and FX30. I have an FX30 and want to get my exposure correct while "filming." You have explained that a setting of 45 for zebras was correct for Cine EI with a gray card, etc and indicated that you would cover run and gun settings for outside (my words.) I have been unable to gather that info in your tutorials. So, I ask, what would the correct zebra settings be for general uncontrolled lighting outside for Cine EI. I have been playing with 45 +-1, S709 LUT on. Looks good in FCPX using the Sony Sgamut3.cine lut with a it of correction. Others say 94+. Comment please!!
Sorry, also failed to note, run and gun outside without a grey card settings?
You're welcome. Glad you are finding the videos helpful. I use the histrogram to get exposure when I am outside. I am planning on making a video about how I do this for Slog3 soon, but if you want to get an idea of how I do it, check out the video I did about Clog3. It is very similar.
th-cam.com/video/JCDaz1Ewirg/w-d-xo.html
@@Josh_Sattin VERY kind of you to reply. I am looking forward to your Slog vid. I watched your Canon one and it was enlightening. On the Slog one, would you also address zebra settings as a supplement to the histogram? Thanks again for writing a reply!
You're welcome. There are lots of ways to do all of this stuff, but I do not use zebras when filming outside.
Hi, @Josh Sattin it would be great to make a big APC compartment between Sony FX30 Canon C70 and Huji XH2s - in terms of dynamic range and overall usability. C70 is twice more expensive but since canon is limiting clog2 so much it would be interesting since all of those also offer RAW recording
New subscriber here! So you know where I'm coming from, I'm a Blackmagic Pocket 6k user and getting an FX30!! So yeah, if I'm shooting an interior shot that has a lot of shadows and no bright lights I need to worry about protecting and I want to produce the best image based off my darker scene, typically with Blackmagic I'd want to start at the base ISO then lower the ISO value to give more dynamic range in the low end and not worry about the highlight sacrifice. Is this the same as Flexible ISO on the Sony system? Start at 800 ISO then lower the ISO to get more dynamic range in the shadows (still exposing to 41% mid gray using my key light). I get a little confused when people are recommending Cine EI because that is fixed to 800 ISO but I typically find on my Blackmagic I want to lower my ISO away from its native value to get more juice in the shadows and I want to raise my ISO up a bit when I need to retain the details in my highlights a bit. Does Flexible ISO do the same thing on Sony? Like, is Cine EI just a safety net for people that might not know how they are limiting dynamic range when they go off the native values? THANKS!
Hey there! Yeah what you are doing makes sense. I haven't done a side by side test of Flexible ISO and Cine EI by lowering the ISO and EI. I think with the Sony cameras they really do like being at the base ISO so by lowering the EI, you then overexpose the image to get more info in the shadows. Similar to what you are doing with the lower ISO. Changing the EI basically is an exposure guide and leaves the camera running at its optimum ISO. Here is a longer version of this video with more details: th-cam.com/video/oAM1RRcGuss/w-d-xo.html
@@Josh_Sattin Thanks. Yes I watched the longer video yesterday too. I like your stuff! That really is the question though isn't it! Does Sony NEED to stay at 800 ISO or is the chart where it shows a lower ISO value add dynamic range in the lows and take away dynamic range from the highs accurate. If that chart is true, then using flexible ISO (when you know what you are doing) SHOULD be the best way because you get the results you want in camera. Thats, what I'm trying to figure out.
It gets more complicated for me when I'm thinking about applying that same way of thinking to the second base ISO of 2500. It seems to me that way of thinking can't apply there because 2500 is the very first value in the second gain stage and if I wanted more dynamic range in the lows from there, adjusting the ISO lower a step actually puts you in the upper end of the first gain stage!
So is 800 ISO really the lowest noise floor for Sony and all you do is reduce highlight range when you lower it and the shadow details don't improve?
These are the concepts I need to learn jumping into Sony as a Blackmagic user.
I've heard some say Cine EI is best for controlled circumstances whereas Flexible ISO is best for run and gun. Is there any logic to that?
It really depends on how you shoot and where you shoot. If you are somewhere with decent lighting then no problem using Cine EI. You just have to train yourself to get exposure a bit differently. I am almost always at the base ISO anyways. Like I said in this video, if you need to crank up the ISO then of course Flexible ISO will be better.
when u moved ei to 2500, it didnt change to the second base...?
The camera will only change bases automatically when changing the EI if you are in the Cine EI Quick mode, not Cine EI.
@@Josh_Sattin ah thats answers a lot. thank you
What exactly is the advantage to simply setting your exposure to one of the two base isos and adjusting your ND etc accordingly? Sorry if it’s a dumb question.
You get the best performance in terms of dynamic range and noise at the two base ISOs.
You will not get an answer here. I suggest you read some dedicated articles to CineEI. The purpose of CineEI is not to fix you ISO to base. CineEI came from film days when you had to push/pull film using a different iso than film is rated
@@exoops This video is an intro and how to get started. My other video which I referenced several times will explain how and why you would want to change the EI. Also, the comment that you are responding to was only asking why it's best to shoot at the base ISOs, nothing about Cine EI.
@@Josh_Sattin Hi Josh, just found the other video, thanks. Did you notice any problems after you upgraded the camera? There are reports of poor AF and microphone issues
@@exoops Which camera? The FX3? I haven't had any issues with V2.0. I heard there some issues with the latest firmwares that came out for the FX3 and FX30 a few days ago, but I haven't tried those.
Isn't the dual ISO on the FX3 640 and 12800?
On the FX3 in Flexible ISO it is 640/12800 and in Cine EI it is 800/12800.
@@Josh_Sattin ah! Do you know the reason for the difference? Why wouldn't Cine EI use the lower one?
This is still an open question as far as I know. The FX6 has bases of 800/12800 so that is why the FX3 has bases of 800/12800 in Cine EI. They have the same sensor. I have wondered if the real base of the FX3 is 800, but it is what it is.
Excuse me, I still don't know why I want to use CINEMA EI??? what is the advantage? for what? I really don't understand, if someone can explain me please, thanks!! 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
You can watch my full explanation of Cine EI here: th-cam.com/video/oAM1RRcGuss/w-d-xo.html
@@Josh_Sattin Thank you very much for answering Josh, I'll go see it right now to see if I understand, thank you!! 🙏🏻🙏🏻
What’s the point of recommending the extremely limiting EI Mode?! - IMO It’s much better and more flexible to shoot in Flexible ISO mode. You get the same results if you stick to ISO800 and if needed the higher base ISO, but you can use easily the flexibility at almost no quality loss of 3-4 ISO steps up the bases! - Please correct me if I am wrong!!
I wouldn't say that I recommended that everyone shoot in Cine EI. I even talked about cases where you would want to shoot in Flexible ISO in this video. To get the best possible image (dynamic range and noise) you want to shoot at a base iso, either when you are in Flexible ISO or Cine EI. If you are getting the results that you are happy with, then that is all that matters though. If you would like to learn more about Cine EI and how you can use it to your advantage, please check out the full video which I referenced in this video: th-cam.com/video/oAM1RRcGuss/w-d-xo.html
@@Josh_Sattin I got it. But what’s the point of Cine EI over Flexible ISO if you stick to the base? - Nothing IMO.. Right or wrong?
The camera will produce the same image in Flexible ISO and Cine EI if you are at the base ISOs. There are other advantages of Cine EI which I go over in the other video.
Thanks for the informative video but…..well this is well and truly overly complicated. Thank you Sony.
With an iPhone you get good pictures without any of this, why can’t any of these cameras do the same? (But with benefits of bokeh, low light performance and changeable lenses)
There is log shooting available within the picture profiles. But there is also a log shooting mode!
First)