I Will FIX Your Wifi - MoCA and Powerline at Colton's House
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 พ.ค. 2024
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Colton's WiFi is just like his work ethic: it SUCKS! How can we solve this problem? Ethernet? Maybe, but why worry about running new cables when he's got plenty in his walls. MoCA and Powerline will get his house in order and get his internet running smoothly so he can once again become gainfully employed.
Discuss on the forum: linustechtips.com/topic/14770...
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CHAPTERS
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0:00 Why Colton? Why?
1:31 Two Possible Solutions
2:18 Scoping Out the Coax
4:35 Making Holes for Glory
6:44 Hooking up the MoCA Network
8:59 MoCA Security, Setup and Troubleshooting
12:05 Giving Up
13:13 Can Powerline Save the Day?
15:01 Does it work? Testing Powerline
16:29 What's the benefit?
17:54 Powerline Security and Compatibility
18:27 Stress Testing
19:05 Conclusion - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
I'm surprised Linus is still willing to help out an ex-employee. Even though he allowed Geoff to buy that body pillow, Linus is letting it be water under the bridge. Good on him.
Geo just took it, didnt buy as instructed by Colton lol
Colton left?!!
@@giomjava no, it's an inside meme
@@giomjava Linus fired him
@@giomjava yup Colton got fired out of a canon his last day. Now that was a wild stream.
How many times are we gonna "fix" Colton's networking before we force him to just move
Yes
Just get a electrician and get it done probably
@@freewayross4736 The return of Brian?
*before he gets fired
Maybe when Colton would be re-employed he would get an "accomodation package" what will enable him to move into less network-cursed place
Its nice to see Linus in the holidays spirits... Helping a freshly unemployed man...
@@HanmaHeiro Wait waaaaaaaaassssssssst that 2015?
He's the reverse Grinch.
@@metaldragonmike isn't the grinch just reverse santa???
@@HanmaHeiro yes that is the joke thank you for explaining it
@@KillerWhale806 exactly the point of my joke.
"Anything for content" spoken like a true LMG employee!
Also I love how he has his entire staff trained to do a plug for merch every time they're handed a merch item.
Honestly, it's nice to see the professionals in the biz run into the same head scratching scenarios as I have when trying to help my family with tech solutions. Technology is both fun and amazing, as well as stubborn and temperamental.
there not professionals theyre enthusiasts and there is a big diffrence
they are pros at making video content but not at it work they dont do it for other people and tske liability for screwing somthing up for the record i love their content
@@matthewlee9728 Many of them are literally professionals who are highly educated, that's why Linus hired them lmao
@Luka Tim ok they may be professional by those loise standards dosnt make them good at it hard to argue with that stupid logic
That's like saying mcdonalds employees are professional cooks they technically are but it's not tge sane as a line cook at a quality restaurant now is it
Something not mentioned in the video is that if you're doing the powerline solution you should really make sure it works well for you while it's still within the return warranty period. Older buildings, specially condo buildings, have really fucked up wiring and it makes the internet significantly slower and laggy.
Exactly this, I live in a very old house and bought a PowerLine adapter expecting 200-400Mbit/s, I got 20Mbit/s.
I gotten to like power line Ethernet, it was pretty good since we were the only ones using it
Yup tried the power line method. My place gets around 250mbps off my ubiquiti ap ac lite and got like 20mbps off powerline. But I also feel like I plugged the powerline on the router side into a power strip rather than into the wall but too lazy to even attempt it again when I’m okay with my WiFi speeds
not really ducked up. Just different power phases. That can easily ruine it. It dosn't really have a lot to do with the braker though.
@@ixpaul here a tip, have 2 different lines of Ethernet over power going through a 20 amp twist lock. It act like the phases are ignored.
Coax splitters can be directional. Since the cable next to the computer was presumably for TV signal, it is possible that the line was split somewhere in the house, not far from where it enters the structure. (Mine is screwed to a ceiling joist in the basement). Removing the splitter and getting a F2F adapter to connect the two internal runs directly could have solved the problem.
Yeah I’ve only interacted with directional splitters. 90% of the work setting up moca was figuring out the directionality and other existing cables
The splitter also needs to support the frequencies of MoCA or it might filter out the signal (insofar as I understand it…)
that is what they were probably going to look at, but they couldn't open the cable box
@@saillively A splitter would be pretty useless if it was in the box and you had to run two separate lines to the house anyhow.
Put some tape on the wall where you’re going to drill through. It’ll help with the drywall blowing out the back side.
Also don’t push super hard. Let the bit do the work.
Alternatively, drill through with a pilot bit then bore to the proper size from each side.
"Also don’t push super hard. Let the bit do the work."
That's what she said?
Another one. Drill from the side that you want to show a better presentation.
@@sergiogsrYeah. I was scratching my head trying to figure out why they didn’t just drill out from inside the room. Then they wouldn’t have had to worry about drilling through to the right spot.
Option 3. Don't run the cable through the wall until you've tested it. They could have used a router in bridge mode and connected that to the moca for testing before drilling. If it worked, they would still probably need to follow option 1 or 2 to test it's real world performance, but given that it didn't work, they could have avoided the drilling altogether.
Also go from the inside and drill out.
With MOCA, the coax splitters need to be rated for the frequencies that the MOCA adapters use. There are also MOCA filters that you can put on the input of the first splitter to block those frequencies from leaving your home. When set up properly, MOCA is far superior to the powerline adapters. I always recommended them when working in that industry.
Do you have a brand or model recommendation for MOCA?
As a practical matter older splitters, despite not having been tested for higher frequencies when they were released (as they weren’t in use) could work fine. It is worth trying before tracking down every last one in your home and replacing them, IMO, which I ended up doing to no real benefit. That said MoCA is far and away the most reliable alternative to Ethernet, and even if old splitters *did* put a bit of a damper on performance, it should definitely be considered well before powerline, which is spotty and slow even in relatively new construction.
I wanted to write the same thing, they even hinted "it uses the same frequencies as dish" which indicates 950-2150MHz at least in Europe. Regular cable splitters do 5-1000, high quality that support dish are 5-2500MHz, old cable splitters could also only work until 450 MHz but because he already had cable internet, it need to be at least work until 1000MHz.
superior in terms of latency?
@@Dr.Spatula bunch of them appear to be rebadges of the same underlying controller. My stuff is a bit older (MoCA 2.0) but I’ve tried a couple of brands without running into issues with either (Actiontec, Zyxel/Motorola). GoCoax seems to be popular these days since they’re price-competitive and their reps can sometimes be found on Twitter. MoCA 2.5 models that support 2.5GbE speeds are also out now, I’m not sure how much of that bandwidth can actually be used (and these might be more sensitive to splitter quality; I haven’t used them). Some MoCA 2.5 stuff also only comes with a GigE port, so make sure you get one with a 2.5GbE-capable port if you want to take advantage of those speeds.
Bought a house and found the whoever built it was a TV nut and ran Coax to every single room in the house from a central point. I had no idea I could use them for internet, this changes everything!
The elders would tell you, because every tv required a cable connection
Make sure any splitters are rated to 2000Mhz. And disconnect unused runs from the main splitter.
“TV nut” lmao. It’s standard to have coax in all rooms.
Don't neglect to cap unused coaxial jacks with resistors.
Have you considered using the coax as a fish wire, to allow you to pull Cat 6 from that central location to every room?
Another good reason to use MoCA is if you have an RV and you need the antenna outside for a point to point solution. Most RV will have a coaxial plug on the outside so instead of drilling into your RV you can use two adaptors.
Do you have power outside?
@@martin5697 When yer plugged in, yes
An external WiFi access point (mounted on the wall of the house) and a WiFi client mounted on a RV window (inside, fixed to the glass with two strips of double sided tape) can easily solve the problem with less troubles....
Cable is always better than WiFi for fixed uses but WiFi is always better than cable for mobile uses (and an RV is definitely a mobile use!)
Too late, I've drilled a hole already. XD
These power line Ethernet connections are SUPER hit or miss. I've tried almost all of them in a variety of scenarios and results will vary drastically on a number of factors. They're not simply plug and play like they make them seem.
It ultimately depends on the house's powerline setup. Older houses in the US without filters on the powerline work best. Newer houses are wired differently and typically have filtering, making it work not so well.
@@diabloterrorgf Agreed. My last two houses have been new construction (built in 2008 and 2020), and any powerline solutions I tried were terrible. Hard to get even a few megabit/s. Might be the arc-fault breakers that new houses often use?
With the diagnostic app and a lot of time I've been happy with the results. Without the app it's more miss than hit.
@@realzyxtomatic new construction 2022 and power line wasn’t very good. Had to eventually just go get a wifi dongle
Yeah they are absolutely trash tier in my house. Ridiculous latency and a few tens of Mbps, max.
Just an extra Powerline tip, for anyone wanting to try it out! Most packages for Powerline actually tell you the max length that you can space two adapters in the network. Most are right around 100-150 feet. You may also run into problems if you run in a path that crosses a refrigerator, as some can distort the frequencies used by the adapters. Hope this helps!
And in general, just try around a bit with different outlets, I 8x my speed by using a different outlet
Also switch mode power supplies such as phone charger wreak havoc on the signal speed
i used to have a dimmable lamp where having it anywhere between 0 and 100% brightness would massively lower the speed.. and that was 14 or 15 years ago when speed was quite limited anyway - i had a 2Mbit connection back then i think
@@La_sagne Sounds like triac regulator
Anthony gets so much love, but man, Colton really deserves just as much. He seems like such a genuine and amazing dude!
He needs it being unemployed these days is quite hard.
But seriously though, Dennis, Colton and Linus trio is great.
His smile is just so genuine and the dude is always smiling! Love ya Colton!
@@sinuslebastian6366 Long time no see Mr. Lebastian.
Colton's such a great person. Genuine and really funny. Too bad he's unemployed soon :/
@@otherssingpuree1779 I've been here all along :)
Colton always seems like he's on edge and doesn't know where he is or who he is, but is just happy to be included.
He's a golden retriever.
He's not a dog , he's a person lol
@@leoblack8497 A dog is so more worth it than a person. Ugh, persons.
@@JizyaDhimmi Cringe
@@JizyaDhimmi "The more I get to know people, the more I love my dog." ~ Mark Twain
@@willgaj_8353and now look at Twain he's dead huge l + ratio
One thing to keep in mind with MOCA is that a lot of older cable TV Coax used splitters & band pass filters with a cutoff frequency below what MOCA operates at. Some of these filter devices are also directional, so it can be quite frustrating to set up if you don't have a good idea of how your coax is wired.
A simple coax cable tester can help troubleshoot how wires are ran and terminated, but if any splitters were built into the walls you may just be SOL.
Colton being in sales, it 100% tracks that he'd try and fix this problem with a hammer and crowbar.
What lol not all salesmen are clueless. I sold cars and hung out with the mechanics. None of the sales guys were car people…. Wait I get your point.
@@matthewm5287 lol
a hammer and a crowbar can solve all problems
Used to be in sales....
Don't diss Colton's ethics pal. He's a top man. Should totally be fired though.
17:05 Remember the Telus gateway was rebooted when Linus unplugged it. Routers are set to automatically change bands, typically happens after a restart. A restart can also help to flush out the cache and that could explain why the latency dropped.
The modem was also physically moved from its normal position. Entirely possible that it got a more direct shot
WiFi 5 and 6 are also significantly more complicated.
I used to work at a PC retail shop and I would always recommend internet over power line, I was being told by my boss to shill more expensive routers but 99% of the customers were old couples who lived in old stone walled houses, not brick, thick stone. I'd always try to explain to them how to set them up, but would also give them some handwritten instructions to give to their grandchildren if they had any issues, it's surprising how easy they are to set up 90% of the time they would phone back not to report an issue but just to say thank you. I probably would have lost my job if it wasn't for all the old couples phoning in to tell my boss how grateful they were to me.
You sir are one of the good ones. 🫡
I hate it when PC stores con old people out of money because they have no idea how computer technology works. 😤
We need more people like you in the world
"I just neglect my family" - Colton 2022
"You have some c***k?" - Linus 2022
"You can do a LOT of things." - Also Colton
4:50: The whole "Colton takes a second to parse the caulk correctly" should make it to the this year's "LTT best of" compilation.
I like their chemistry, wish they did more videos together. Linus doesn't get to be on camera with people high up in his company/have been there long enough to where both of them can be an absolute savage with each other.
That's because Colton was fired 😉
I’m loving these non-profit videos giving tech tips to the unemployed. Glad to see Linus is in the giving spirit this holiday season!
Colten’s S.O. is wonderful. The whole ltt team and their families deserve a world of blessings.
Calling powerline consistent is the funniest thing.
I remember those times at 2am trying to not wake up my family by laughing when I was playing with my best friend and all of a sudden he'd get kicked out and I could hear him punch is powerline adapter because it crashed once again. Btw he went through several brands and models, modern house with new wiring too, so no excuse.
Meaningwhile I've been using wifi for all these years during which he has been struggling with his adapters, and I've always had faster internet than him (same provider) and more stable than him too, at least until very recently, he just arranged the attic to become his room and in the process has cabled ethernet into the room, no more problems. Quality access point and receiver adapter is key, it can make your experience go from very shitty to seamless, forgetting it's wifi and negating the needs for wiring at all.
In my case between cabled and wifi 5AC, I go from 210mbps and 15ms to 185mbps and 21ms, no stability difference, IMHO negligible difference.
Edit ; btw my house is big stone house over 100yo, some walls are 70cm thick, and my pc is all the way accross the house. There's no such things as "too far for wifi" or anything like that, just bad AP's and/or implementation.
Oh yeah, I don't know with what magic Linus finds good poweline adapters, but the times I've tried using them they were absolutely worthless.
First time I ever used one was when I moved into a house share with uni friends back in 2017 there was zero ethernet, 3 floors, dense walls and floors and WIFI simply wasn't cutting it as most of us were gamers. I tried buying TP-Link powerline adapters and it seemed to work fine for hours on end and then suddenly it would just disconnect one or multiple of the end points but the internet wasn't down and the devices showed full connection and it was an absolute headache that ended up with me installing a huge frikken ethernet up the stairs and sticking another access point up there.
However on the flip side. This year i'm living in a new place which has the internet installed upstairs which is actually ideal as its where my computer, but my TV downstairs had terrible signal to router upstairs due to again, thick brick walls and dense wood floor boards, carpet etc. So I tried once again, bought some TP-Link adapters, didn't have much hope however they've run like a dream. I have one in the room with my router and computer that has a single ethernet in port, and one downstairs in my living room that acts as wifi access point with an ethernet out. Speed tests on the wifi downstairs now show 150-180Mbit/s which is close to the rated speed but more than what I need.
The only time it's dropped was due to the adapter being on a clogged wifi channel. I simply switched off auto-channel selection and found one myself that wasn't clogged and it went right back to normal, been running smooth for 5 months now.
This house is old, and not exactly well built by any modern standard too. Only thing I can imagine that's changed is either the product itself or that I may have been skimping on cheaper models. So my advice would simply be buy a higher end, newer model. If you can afford it. Test it and return if you more a couple of drops in a 30 day return window.
Before we updated other PCs with internal wifi adapters that didn't suck, we used powerline for PCs for a solid almost two years. Occasionally needed to repair like once every few months but they worked fine. Cheap 40 dollar setup too.
@@KyleDavis328 it's about the appliances you use, appliances that use the powerline a lot will cut out basically all connections
I've been using TP-Link powerline connectors (3 of them) for 6 years and have had no issues in my apartment.
Man I started laughing out loud, I tired streaming over wifi for the first time yesterday, got fed up and ordered a moca adapter, a day later and Linus uploads this, this is amazing
Edit: Linus if you see this, thank you, this has helped me to make a more informed decision, I have done more research and found out that MoCA isn't right for me and cancelled my order, I will be using the power line instead.
Just use cable clips and ethernet cable. You do own a hammer, don't you?
How do people manage to get their wifi so bad? I stream everything wirelessly and never have any problems.
@@ruk2023-- My wifi works fine and my walls are all brick
@@ruk2023-- I get like 300mbps over WiFi. Plenty.
@@littlejackalo5326 But if you're paying for 1000 mbps and only using wifi in the home, max 300 mbps, youre losing out on 700 mbps
I love these real-life experiments. Things may not go as planned sometimes but it makes you learn so much more about your setup.
I use powerline in my house between my PC and the router (PC upstairs in a spare bedroom and router is in the kitchen) and I love it, it gives me such better ping and I even get better download speeds on it. I also run both ends of the powerline through plug adapters, power strips as some people call them, and it works fine. Though thats mainly because my plugs are stupidly close the skirting boards
dude i’m stupid, i didn’t even know this was a thing. I’ve been running a 50ft ethernet cable upstairs for like a year 😨. Which would you recommend?
@@juliwomp cable anytime, as an isp technician (12 years experience and counting) I can guarantee you that powerlines will give you trouble, so always go for cable, second option is moca, third option wifi mesh and most certainly the fourth and last option is powerline
even if you have a clean electricity signal entering your house (fyi almost non existent) then you still have your electric home devices and cables to deal with
@@JB-Voices Interesting. Even in my house that has a very suspicious electrical installation we've never had any problems with our powerline connection in nearly a year of use.
What sort of problems did you encounter in your work for you to rate powerline so low?
@@nabla6100 extremely intermittent latency and speed, that is why even wifi mesh is better in most cases
concerning your house, funny enough, older electrical installations (with very few circuit breakers) often work the best
@@JB-Voices I had these issues, turns out there were other powerline type adapters connected to the network which I disabled from our network. Sorted out all the issues.
Also plug directly in a socket both by Hub and upstairs device.
You use a moca filter where the coax enters your premises to stop your neighbors from getting your moca signals. To get full moca speed to multiple locations, it's possible to use multiple moca adapters, but disconnected from the splitter, so they only use direct runs to a specific room, then connect the now disconnected splitter side of the moca units to a central ethernet switch. This is layout dependent and probably much harder to do if your splitter is outside. Also wont work if you want TV over the same coax. Works great in a setup with a splitter inside when you just want to send data to certain rooms.
If you use cable internet then MoCA filters also prevent the local cable company from knocking on your door. Because without a filter you create a crap load of noise that affects everyone else on the pillar that your house is connected to and if you don't fix it. The cable company _will_ eventually disconnect you from the network. It takes what feels like forever, but they will eventually do it if you fail to correct the issue (it's classed as interfering with telecommunication infrastructure if you were remotely interested!).
You can also use MoCA networking with regular/legacy cable boxes on the same outlet. Nearly all MoCA adapters have a built-in splitter on the receiving end for this purpose. The only time these adapters may not work _with_ cable TV box, is if you have a legacy whole home PVR system, because they (can/do) use the additional frequencies to deliver a cable/PVR recording to the box from the main head unit.
Mostly this. And in the case of Colton he's on fiber in a Single Family Unit. I wish Linus hadn't glossed over the coax/moca setup for apartments. It's not something that someone should be afraid of having "stolen" by their neighbors.
@@booblla that would depend on what signals your cable company is using, MoCA adapters use frequencies above 1002mhz which is not a frequency a lot of cable companies are going to use for transmission because they are with a high degree of likelihood using MoCA for internet connected cable boxes, where as the frequencies your local CMTS (Cable Modem Termination System) are receiving data on are much lower. The issue you're most likely to have with a bunch of MoCA devices connected isn't the MoCA itself causing an issue, since your house as well as other subs should have a point of entry MoCA filter, but rather potentially damaged or not well terminated cables allowing ingress of interference from other sources, typically below 200mhz.
I'm old enough to have seen Linus "fix" other people's WiFi before. Not sure his inlaws are still on speaking terms with him.
Just reminded me of the video 😂 thanks
The lake house or the the one in Asia?
@@PsRohrbaugh In Singapore.
I remember first finding him while he and Luke first got the house office!
This comment needs a link to that video
OMG I learned about MoCA in early 2022 and have 2.5Gbps running to my upstairs router. I also have fiber because cable is slower and more expensive at my house.
The positioning of my upstairs and downstairs router isn’t ideal for dedicated wireless backhaul so I used MoCA for wired backhaul and spent a little more on the 2.5Gbps to help future proof my current 1Gbps connection. It works amazingly well!
I’m so glad that you’re doing a video about this because more people need to know!! It kicks the crap out of wireless backhaul. Fixed all of my issues and is much faster than when wireless was even working at peak with an upstairs test in a better location for signal but not for home coverage.
Some fun stuff we did with powerline adapters at work. We were looking for a low cost 2 wire IP solution. NVT 1701 devices were $700 a pair and it was making it financially difficult to convert old analog camera systems over to IP cameras for customers. (This was before analog HD/TVI) We disassembled some $40 100mbps TPlink powerline adapters, removed the 120v transformer, then we got some variable voltage steppers and stepped our 12vdc camera power down to 5vdc. We then powered up the adapter and used the data pins which were no long connected to the 120v transformer board to connect to the coax through a BNC lead that had 2 wires coming off the back (We had tons of these left over from analog camera installs). It worked! We had network connectivity from one apartment building to the other apartment building for the cameras. Sadly the connection would fail at around 4 devices being hooked up, so sadly it didnt pan out as a low cost solution.
Fun thing we discovered, we didnt have to hook up the data pins at all. While troubleshooting the network drops, we discovered the powerline devices were talking to each other through the voltage stepper, and through the 12vdc power supply. I had removed the data pins to check something and had not reattached them when the camera came back online and was transmitting to the NVR. After that I suggested we abandon the plan as we simply did not have a strong enough understanding of these devices. We broke the news to the customer we're going to have to go with the much more expensive devices.
There is at least one building where our little powerline hack setup has kept a camera connected to the network for over 5 years without issue, so small win I suppose.
Colton and his partner were so chill with Linus drilling a hole through their wall
It's just drywall
they are paid to sit at home and get free upgrades, you expect him to be upset or what?
His wife
drywall can be repaired in, no joke, 5 minutes if you have the stuff on hand. Some mesh, some filler, boom you're done and nobody will notice unless they look really closely.
@@bmxscape i think linus made him pay for the adapters
We need more Colton & wife.
This video has brought me such joy as I purchased a house this year with awful wifi coverage(old farm house, thick stone walls and strange layout) but was wired up with coax in most of the rooms! Never knew MoCA existed
A house like that has good bones; should last you a good long time. But you're right, it's a nightmare for wifi. Get yourself a few MOCA adapters and switches, maybe a cheap AP if you need wifi in one or two rooms, and you can network that baby up right.
I laughed so much through this video. This is like every home handyman thing I've ever done except with less damage. Why are these simple tasks so difficult? Thanks for the great content.
Just a note for the Powerline stuff, do not use it when you have an VDSL (Super-)Vectoring connection for your home internet at home. Especially with Supervectoring those devices will create an insane amount of errors on the DSL line due to basically the same frequency and typically not well isolated power line cables running next to the DSL one. On many cases the DSL modem will either have frequent drop outs due to that or will need to cut down the speed imensly. Powerline manufacturers sometimes offer an compatibility mode for Vectoring in their devices, however this will make the actual Powerline connection a lot slower.
All big ISPs in Germany for Supervectoring for example don't promote those devices (but instead Wifi Mesh stuff) and also won't fix the connection line as long as you use them.
That's very interesting and answers a long standing question.
Good piece of advice, as our build site just got the Telekom vectoring crap (max. 175 MBit advertised) instead of proper fiber. Not that I'm planning to use PowerLine in the forseeable future, but it's good to know anyways.
Interesting. Someone I know gets fibre to the node and then VDSL from there to their home, and he uses powerline adaptors plus a Wi-Fi repeater, but I don't think his connection uses vectoring as I remembered he got around 50 Mbps download speeds when I stayed with him for a while a few months back. If he ever were to upgrade his plan to one that uses that, I might warn him if I could remember to do so.
@@kbhasi 50Mbit/s is no issue with powerline, the actual interference only starts with a 100Mbit/s Vectoring connection and gets worse and worse the faster it goes.
Not going to lie. When Linus mentioned not having the $3 tool for the cable box I was expecting a BRIIIIAN THE ELECTRICIAAAAAN segment.
I've personally never had good experience with power line adapters. The source and destination are always on different breakers which caused issues.
And i've never had a good experience with MoCa adapters... Ethernet is still the way to go. Wifi as a second choice
@@Anticlimacticwhale seriously? moca adapters are about as reliable as they come..
@@bdziver12 I had 2 pairs of em. No bueno. Could be user error but I had my chance with them. Will stick to what worked for me
Good timing to see MoCA; I've been using powerline in my house in the UK for ages and I always get kinda crummy rates (150-300mbps). Since getting Gigabit broadband I've been wanting to upgrade - I was considering using the TV Antenna cables that my house had (which aren't very common here) to pull network cables up to the attic and set up LAN... but then I discovered MoCA. I plugged one adapter in next to my router into a TV Antenna connector, and another into the TV Antenna connector in my home office room. Boom, 2.5Gbps in the house and a full 1Gbps internet. Holy crap, game changer. Now I just need a second 2.5Gbps network switch, but they're still very expensive.
In the UK satellite TV uses the same frequencies as MoCA but Digital Freeview is safe and sound without any clash. You could put a PoE filter on the end to play it safe, but I just turned Encryption on instead.
With powerline it is worth noting that you won't get the maximum rated performance unless both are on the same circuit (i.e. not going through the switchboard/breaker box).
Which basically defeats the point as most rooms are on different breakers. If it's in the same room (so on the same circuit) just run an ethernet 😂
also worth noting that in an older house, your performance is likely to be drastically worse as the circuitry used in homes pre 80's was total dog shit compared to today's spec. But, that's an inconvenient piece of information Linus and co left out. They definitely should have had a low voltage tech look at this.
@@jonfromsyracuse the fact yank houses dont have proper earth pins like UK does. It works flawless if its a 3 prong socket device
Darn, Moca was the main thing I wanted to see tested. I tried powerline in my apartment and the speeds were just abysmal.
I've used MoCA for years and you'll get nearly the same speed on MoCA as ethernet.
i used moca & got nearly 850mbps on speed test
i get 1GB Up/Down with MocA so no need to worry about speed.
interesting comment i found
"Something not mentioned in the video is that if you're doing the powerline solution you should really make sure it works well for you while it's still within the return warranty period. Older buildings, specially condo buildings, have really fucked up wiring and it makes the internet significantly slower and laggy."
from "sadman hoque"
Moca can work great even in apartments if you have a "tree" style wiring architecture, meaning there's a single coax going into your unit and from there there are coaxes going to the living room, bedroom, etc. If all your coaxes go to the building's electrical room you can still do it but it'll be more difficult, you'll need a toner and probe to find all your coax. Don't trust the labels lol.
This was an excellent explanation of how to use existing wiring in a home. It's a bit of a difference in ways of thinking and I think this video will help the idea to click for most.
It was my boy Asmongold back at it again in a a LTT video.
Former Dish installer here. The reason why Linus said that Dish uses the same frequencies and MoCA for Ethernet may not be compatible with Dish, is because Dish actually uses MoCA for their Hopper/Joey products. Those systems are less like a traditional set top box setup, and more like a media server with a bunch of Nvidia Shields connected to it via MoCA. Hence the conflicting frequencies. It's already basically using MoCA for Ethernet. If you have one of the older set top boxes or DVRs, instead of a hopper, then it's entirely possible that MoCA may work for you
Certain cablecos also work this way, for example Xfinity. FiOS also uses MoCA, however, unlike Xfinity, whose central set-top box actually has it’s own, separate, 8x4 modem in it that it uses for internet connectivity, and which acts as gateway/router for every other cable box you own using an unconfigurable local network that conflicts with any other one you might want to use over MoCA, Verizon’s boxes get their internet connectivity from the regular gateway, and you can use your own network (including your own router and MoCA bridges) without issue (you if you do use your own gateway, rather than theirs, you do lose some features; workarounds exist but are somewhat complex).
Power line can have problem in EU house with whole house protection, especially if the two power-line routers are on different breakers. (Most US house only have protection in bathroom, so main breaker won’t interfere with power-line).
Same model/ series adapter/router is important for power-line MoCA and mesh Wi-Fi
I've had a pretty good experience with moca adaptwr
At 5,000 Square feet, my home is on the larger side, and has always been difficult to cover with wireless access.
I've tried everything from wireless repeaters, powering adapters, and mesh networking.
When I had cable, I found moca adapters to be the best alternative to running CAT-6. Once I switched over to Google Fiber, I went with a wireless mesh, which took 5 access points to cover.
This video has inspired me to find out how I can put those moca adapters back into use.
Got Moca set up in my room. I was originally thinking of having my own cable modem installed in my room so I could get a direct ethernet connection, but saw that the latest Moca speeds were very impressive and decided to give it a try, especially since it was very reasonable in price. It’s been amazing since installing it. I got an adapter with 2 ethernet ports. I hooked up a WiFi 6 router on one port and use the other port for various devices, depending on what I need the speed. Sometimes it plugs directly into my laptop, other times it’s into my PS4 or even my Xbox 360.
MoCA hands down better than powerline adapter .. if you have coaxial in home
Better how?
I'm glad to see Linus helping someone in need Even after Colton got fired. Such a great feat of philanthropy
th-cam.com/video/ME67Vh4yNSo/w-d-xo.html
Recently discovered the poweline adapters and it has changed so much. My house was built in the 1920s and wifi doesn't travel well . I don't get the full speed with power line but it's still plenty fast and haven't had any issues yet.
Couple of MOCA lessons learned the hard way. First, the internet provider's MOCA is not fully formed and can throw the other units off. Secondly, you likely can't permanently turn off that at the router (it will come back on in the middle of the night from the headend). Last, wire the two units together in front of you and set up IP and encryption first, *then* move the units to the intended destination.
The problem is that the white RG6 coaxial cable wasn't checked to see if it was even connected inside the home. Their concerns about the outside cable box was pointless. They needed to find where the main RG6 coax cables were at in Colton's house, use that coax connection at Colton's desk as the main source and disconnect that coax line from the output of the splitter to the input so that it would send the signal properly throughout the home cable connections.
@@spankbuda5760 yeah step one is to tone out all of the lines and not "hope" they are connected. this can be done with a DSAM , a cable toner, a volt meter (look for 75ohms on the coax) or just tracing the wire with your eyeballs from end to end. After you trace out the wires connect both mocca adapters in the same room to make sure they actually function and is configured. THEN connect the adapter on the outlets and rooms you want. just connecting the equipment and hoping for the best is how you waste a TON of time.
@@spankbuda5760 Yep, as I watched this I wondered if that was the line from the cable company. They don’t show them verifying that it isn’t, so connecting to it of course wouldn’t work. Ah well.
Great video I love these interactions with the employees, and their families which add an interesting touch. Also, I love the mystical sci-fi music in the background it was actually really nice
When Linus unplugged the router and plugged it back it, could that have helped with the ping spikes and why we didn't see it that much at the end of the video versus if the router ran for days on hand you would notice more spikes?
You are on to something. I recommend that people put the crap "gateways" the cable companies give you on a timer to restart like every Sunday night or every night. Helps a ton! Or just buy good equipment and hardwire EVERYWHERE possible!
yip...my router auto reboots every few days to prevent this...
If only people knew about this issue for years and built equipment that can do this automatically. Seriously, I haven't been able to find a router that doesn't require a human operator to reboot it from time to time.
@@thetechnoguy2010 Yeah, but sometimes ISP's do not allow to use any other routers like mine does (its also the only ISP in my building so I cant just change it lmao). I have a HSGQ-G111W router, which does not have that kind of functionality and its just sad.
@@Ruslan-S MikroTik? 300+ days uptime with no problems, then I upgraded RouterOS.
I hard wire my playstation using the second method for years and its good. not as good as wired to the modem directly but a huge jump in download speed. 30mps to 120 mps, and it is definitely more stable of a connection. My service provider even offers their own that do work better then aftermarket ones I own. TP link isnt bad though I find.
kudos to Linus for showing the most likely scenario for using Wifi alternatives ... Colton seems like exactly the kind of guy you imagine who would need such technologies
Since I bought a Netgear Orbi mesh system in 2017, I haven't had any Wi-Fi issues. Using ethernet between the main station and satellite, having a solid connection when connected wired for the TV Media console and my main PC for flawless streaming and Wi-Fi connection across all devices and locations within and around the home is consistent. Also, I love that I can go anywhere in the house and the backyard without getting a signal drop or connecting to another connection point in the middle of a stream.
It would be nice to mention that powerline will always have a higher latency due to how it works: Data packages are only sent when the sine voltage of the mains is close to 0 volts, which means that only a portion of the time the data is transmitted and it is totally related to the grid frequency (50 or 60 Hz)
Not sure what you mean since coming out of the device the 60Hz will be filtered out
@@zeno4253 my understanding is that the data is superimposed onto the 50 / 60 Hz sine wave (the mains voltage), and PLA data signals are transmitted all the time, except for when the mains voltage's signal level is close to zero (called a 'zero crossing'). This is to avoid potential problems with other electronics which sometimes introduce their own noise into the power signal when it reaches a zero point. So there is windowing of the transmitted data, but only for zero point crossings.
The rest of the potential speed loss with PLAs is due to higher amounts of Forward Error Correction (FEC) where good data has checksums calculated and sent alongside it, which the adapters use to reassemble the 'good' data should there be any interference mid-transmission. As your building cabling gets worse, so the level of FEC increases and available speed reduces.
This is independent of how the devices filter the data signal (in the MHz) from power signal (50 or 60 Hz depending on country).
Bull shit I've used powerline tech before and the latency is equivalent of ethernet in general
Tried powerline at my place and speeds were okay, then switched to MoCa and it's been incredible! Great tips
I've been using MoCA adapter for 2 years. In fact, I've had the exact models used in the video. I have 3 deployed. One thing I would recommend is people add a MoCA filter to the coax that enters the residence (or at the junction in an apartment). The MoCA network can be captured by other MoCA devices if the frequencies aren't filtered out.
I don't usually watch these LTT vids but this one was 10/10. The drilling through drywall bit what sealed it for me
I am not sure if I watched this for the tech tips or the comedy. Colton and his wife were hilarious!
Oh man the power line adapter. I’ve tried these so many times. They’ve been inconsistent at best but maybe they’ve gotten better. Observing speeds they were wildly all over the place depending on what was drawing power on that circuit at the time. But I love there are options!
This video is seriously gonna change my life. My room is on the other side of my house from my router with already crap satellite wifi. Squeezing that extra connection speed and consistency is gonna change so much. Thank you sir✌️
Another thing that could help your situation is to reduce your bufferbloat, by shaping your router's WAN traffic to keep latency consistent under load. You can do it by installing OpenWrt firmware on your router and then using SQM. You basically do a speed test when there's no other traffic on your network, and then set SQM to 85-95% of that result. Because you use satellite Internet, you're definitely going to want use something like cake-autorate from the OpenWrt forums. It makes SQM work better for more variable Internet connection types like wireless, DOCSIS, or VPN.
@@alvallac2171 Hey thanks for the information. Never would've thought about that. However I don't need much more performance out my Wi-Fi that I now get with the powerline. Plus I'm not very Tech savy, and diving into custom firmware for routers would probably just confuse the hell out of me. You are an absolute champ for replying though. Maybe someday I'll find this more useful than now ;)
Comcast uses moca to communicate to the other cable boxes. It's how one of the node boxes can tell the main DVR to record. Moca is also used for a lot of their diagnostic tools as well.
If you have working cable TV or Internet in your home that doesn't mean that all of the cable outlets are connected to each other. Certain cable companies or satellite providers use different cable splitters that operate between different frequencies. Sometimes when you switch service in a new cable technician comes in they need to switch out those splitters and will only hook up the bare minimum to the rooms that you're requesting service in. There are "cheap" (relatively speaking) testers that can tell you of specific outlets are connected to each other. It's one of those tools where you're the guy who owns it and all of your friends borrow it once in a blue moon...
Okay and another one. If you call your ISP complaining about having internet based issues, but choose not to disclose that you're using either one of these methods... You're a jerk. You're not plugged in using ethernet don't answer that you are. You have a bunch of extra Bologna Sandwich between your device and that modem then just an Ethernet.
4:45 Colton trying to figure out if he wants to get fired again
Loved this! the reality that sometimes not everything goes as plnned or works but you keep working to the goal, also made me laugh good
Configuring Networks is the closest humanity has come to black magic.
Colton's partner being such a good sport as he screws up everything feels like she long ago learned that being with Colton meant endless cringe, and is just enjoying the chaos he creates.
MoCA is great if your wiring makes sense. In my house, each Coax outlet from the rooms comes as a separate cable to the basement, which makes it super easy to plug them into a splitter and into a single MoCA adapter and into my router. (Also I don't need to worry about encryption, since none of the wiring is connected to the outside connection).
Coax is designed for high bandwidth RF communications after all (it's a shielded cable), so it works really well.
Think this is the issue of their failure. Doubt this part of the project had been planned but assumed.
Same.
Been using MoCA at my church to upgrade our Security Cameras. Even PoE can be supported and has saved me tons of time by avoiding pulling cables through the ceiling of an old building.
The way you prevent your MOCA traffic from leaving your premises is with the use of a MOCA-blocking filter on the coax input at the splitter outside (or inside). Cable companies install them to stop the traffic from inside that house/condo/apartment from heading out to the neighborhood (or the rest of the building). This has been the standard practice for many years now as many set-top boxes used by Comcast and others make use of MOCA to talk back to a cable modem for streaming purposes (Netflix, etc).
I love this more relaxed format. Where the troubleshooting and planning are kept in. Its insightful and very entertaining
To clarify power line works between the same breaker box, not the same breaker. It can be different breakers. Also, powerline adapters don’t work through a power strip
It worked on a power strip in this video, so...
@@isabellavision I guess I should say, surge protector. Power strips are ok unless they are surge protectors
I love moca in my home networking setup. Very happy Linus brought up this type of tech😊
Caution with the power line option, is built for internet conversion but not particularly for heat dissipation (referring to the ones with an outlet extender), recently experienced this with a tp link AV 2000 model regularly running 1500-1800W electricity through it, some of the wall outlet melted as well as a bit of the power line case (still works surprisingly).
Have used power lines without the outlet extender option before and haven’t had this issue.
I've tried to use powerline in the past in order to try to "hard wire" connect my asus routers for ai mesh but it is, as the video showed, extremely hit or miss. In my brand new constructed home, with everything going to one breaker box, it was extremely finicky depending on which outlets you plug the adapters in. Also as the video showcased, my ping was also "on average" worse than utilizing wifi but yes wifi is prone to very big ping spikes and that's a huge no no for ai mesh setups.
Don't rely on a powerline solution unless it is literally the last available option. I ended up routing a 100ft CAT 6 cable up from the basement along the baseboards as cleanly as I could with like 80 little bracket things to neatly push the flat white wire up against the white wall.
A brand new house without Ethernet? What went wrong there? I think I've never seen any house built after 2005 without Ethernet cables😅
But yeah I agree... Powerline is only a solution if there's no way you could pull cables. I only had bad experiences with them.
@@jorrit_o builders are cheap. My 2016 house doesn't have Ethernet, only cable.
Powerline option lasted as long as it took us to go buy a 50 foot spool and run the wire directly.
If you're handy at all try pulling the base board off. There is usually a small gap between the floor and the bottom of the drywall; big enough for an ethernet cable. Can get things all nice and hidden.
I would probably sue the contractor if it's a new home and it's not wired with Cat-6 ethernet to every room
4:35 "Anything for content" That's right. Keep the dream alive lol
I really enjoyed this video Linus Tech Tips. I absolutely love the networking videos and enjoy when you do them. Keep up the good work
Interesting. I love the ease of installation for these wifi solutions.
Note that you can't run these if you share a common ground or a common phase. Some powerline kits will use the ground terminal to connect to each other, others will use one of the phases. If you're in a terraced property or a flat (apartment), chances are you have either a shared ground, or a shared phase income. That means if someone else has a powerline kit, their kit may interfere with yours and vice versa. These days, they shouldn't connect you to them or them to you, but all the same - these powerline kits are only suitable for houses, or flats/apartments with definitively separate grid connections.
I was lucky that when I moved into a place, they had modem ports (RJ11) running all over the house. It turned out, there was CAT5e cabling behind all of it so I was able to simply convert them to RJ45 and enjoy LAN in every room.
The deciding factor on my current apartment was the fact that it has RJ45 ports everywhere and a decent network cabinet in the closet.
Lucky. I don't get that here :( in my apartment I have cat6 I cut up and am holding up with 3M command hooks and tape along the hallway into the bedrooms lol.
The previous owner (and builder) of my house ran Coax to every single room. I have one TV so 90% of these cables went unused and I bemoaned that he hadn’t installed Ethernet instead. Now it looks like I’ll be able to take advantage of the cabling!
I moved to the UK and they do not have a lot when it comes to every room having ethernet. And they did not have a lot of coax either. But there were coax in the living room for the TV and upstairs in my office. So I used the go model you used from my router to down stairs then plugged the output into an 8 port switch to plug in the TV and game consoles plus a unifi AP and all works amazingly. Looking at getting a fiber upgrade soon and then will just use a third adapter.
one thing i've found with my multiple WIFI setups is that the connection occasionally seems to lose consistency over time, at least until I unplug / reset the router setup. I don't know what causes it, but it happens regardless of what router or modem I'm using. If i don't touch it for a week, by the end of the week im getting bad latency spikes all over the place. Once i reset it, it's back to normal again. this NEVER happens when im wired in through ethernet. but i am also in close proximity to a lot of neighbors, so it could be an intermittent issue that has something to do with them also using wifi
You can use an app to see which WiFi channels your neighbours are using and then manually change your router's channel to the one that intercepts with those the least
@@neb6705 do you have a name for that app? I live in a townhome community and it seems like between the hours of 4pm-10pm my internet is terrible for gaming, and I assume it’s because everyone is home from work.
Fun fact, if you have 2 Xfinity internet connections in a house going to different modems, one will inevitably try to take over the other over MoCA. I had a friend what couldn't figure out internet issues. We couldn't really access the other modem, but could disable MoCA on his. It would work for a bit, then for some reason that setting would reset and we'd be back to the same problem. Comcast was of course insistent that there was no problem.
Comcast is the Chinese Government of ISPs
Former Xfinity employee - This is a fail on whatever technician did that install - you're supposed to install MoCA filters to prevent this. Many techs don't know how to do a lot of these aspects of the job now however, which i really can't fault them for because training sucks & they really don't get paid much for their "expertise"
That's because they have to be on separate networks. It's an easy fix, just put a moca reflector/filter on the back of one or both.
@@ashdavis4845 A lot of techs just put the PoE filter on the ground block and dont think about how MoCA actually works.... Ive had to explain too many times why you cant have an XiD on a 2way before a 4port MoCA power amp
Also log into the gateway and turn moca off if its not being used Xfinity has had that since it was introduced
You don't really need the encryption in most cases, particularly a house. There are moca filters you can install on the external facing side that block that frequency from entering or leaving the premises. It's often preinstalled by your cable provider.
just ordered some powerline adapters! i was looking for a fix without running ethernet. thanks LTT
I totally forgot that Ethernet over power line was a thing, last time I looked into it was probably a decade and a half ago and speeds were ridiculously slow compared to Ethernet……this is exactly what I need for my current situation where I need an Ethernet cable from the basement to a second story and don’t want to run cables on the floor or rip the drywall apart. Thank you!!
Linus needs to hire Colton's partner, she's killing it in this video.
You mean Colton's wife? She was helping on first WiFi video few years back to organize LTX for that year. And yes, it was different layout in house then, still remember vividly good old displays and scene when Colton lost password for WiFi of ISP provided router.
In the US most if not all major cable providers use MoCA for communication and video streaming between the main hub cable box and the terminal boxes on other TV’s. While you should be able to run multiple MoCA networks on the same cables being used by your tv service, you cannot change the MoCA channels used by your cable boxes. You will have to be sure you change the channels on your adapters so they are different from the ones being used by the cable boxes and bandwidth will be limited.
Some cable/ISP use MoCA for connecting WiFi cable boxes, using the gateway (modem) as a bridge between the main hub cable box and the WiFi boxes. Again should be able to run a second MoCA network but YMMV.
Cable/ISP providers usually maintain a stand alone policy where their signals should be the only signals running across a cable they are using to deliver service. This is both for reliability and to keep interference (ingress signals) from entering the network and disrupting services to you and other customers. If you try MoCA adaptors and it doesn’t work, asking your cable/ISP for help will likely result in them telling you to remove the adaptors. They won’t help you set it up and you may be changed a fee if a tech is sent out to assist you.
Last thing, you should install a MoCA filter on the input of the first splitter that the cable running to your home from outside is connected to. If your provider uses MoCA you may already have this filter installed. This both keeps your MoCA traffic within your home blocking it from travailing back though the cable drop and (I cant remember the science behind it but it does help) improve the PHY rate (bandwidth) between your adaptors.
Speculation on that last point: I would guess the filter helps your internal bandwidth because it filters both ways, preventing interference on MoCA frequencies from getting into your home from the cable network
@@JackieBright It was explained to me once by an engineer from the MoCA alliance. I think It had to do with lessening the paths the signal had to travel, long distances of cable even if there is endpoint can reduce PHY rates across the network, but don’t quote me on that.
Real world I have seen PHY rates go from high 200-300 up to full MoCA 2.0 600-700 just by adding a filter in installations some long drops (100+ feet RG-6).
In the US a lot of FTTH companies will go the lazy route and have a ONT in your basement or something that then serves via MoCA to a router/gateway elsewhere in the home. FiOS does (or at least did) do this and then forced you to pay for their router rental forever even if you had your own & used MoCA adapters to get it to work.
@@ashdavis4845 can’t speak for all FTTH providers but to my knowledge FiOS will use MoCA from the ONT to their gateway for anything under 500mbps service I believe. Friend of mine upgraded from 200mbps to 600mbps and they ran him a Cat5 line from the ONT to where is gateway was connected via coax before. They also upgraded his ONT as he had a first gen one.
I have heard from system integrators that it is possible to use your own hardware straight from the ONT via Ethernet with FiOS and get rid of their gateway but you have to get the right person on the phone who knows how to do it.
14:07 "Wow you can do a lot of things" took me out
I've been using my powerline ethernet adapter for 2 years now and it is still working as intended! I got the cheapest one I could find so I'm limited to 100mbps but I'd rather have lower speeds and consistent connection rather than my dodgy wifi.
Finally a good video that isn't of a random PC build. Please make more videos in Linus' and staffs homes
I've been using the Zyxel AV2000 since early 2017 and it still performs above and beyond wifi. One plug is right by my router, the other is into a power strip two stories above and it works flawlessly. Definitely worth the $85 at the time, now you can buy the same set for like $50 or $60.
Nice
Zyxel are really decent, have some of their consumer grade switches that ran like bosses for years. Had two of their DSL routers before and they were rock solid, and the web pages on it were responsive, could change practically anything without needing to restart it, where an older one I was stuck with for a while would force restart itself even to change the wifi password >:( !!
One I have now is AVM, never heard of them until I got it, but it's on par with the Zyxel stuff I've had. Blows netgear mass market cheap ISP crap out of the water that's for sure!
why are two separate rooms 2 stories apart on one breaker? sounds like the only reason this works is because some houses were wired by lazy electricians
I'm curious, would it bridge the gap between all breakers? Like if the main router is on a completely different breaker from the destination?
Regarding the issue about encryption, you can buy a cheap MoCA filter and install at point of coax entry. Then you'll have no issues and don't need to use MPS.
Moca is amazing for older houses
13:39 "i do guilty as charged" that delivery was 10/10
Actually incredible
Coltons wife being the real mvp of the video just cry laughing the entire time XD
I used one of these adapters just a couple of weeks ago to get internet to a metal building in my backyard. It works easily enough. Though beware the speed loss. I get about 30Mbps of my total available 500Mbps internet speed. That's all I need out there though and was better than running a cable.
Glad to see even the pros stuggle as much or more than I do, luckily I watched a tech quikie video back in the day and just used powerline from the start.
I would LOVE to see a video testing the reliability/interference etc of powerline adapters. I've always been under the understanding that powerline is the bottom of the barrel basically worse than trailing an ethernet across the floor option. So to see LTT using them has me questioning everything.