RE: Power routing frogs. On my layout I do not power the frogs, and after ten years have no problems, so I’m viewing this as a non-issue. My only issue was with P2K 0-8-0’s and Atlas #8 turnouts, since the entire set of drivers fit on the frog. These engines stalled. My solution to this was to add tender pick up to these four locomotives, as opposed to powering nearly 300 turnout frogs. I find these videos INFINITELY interesting, and I learn TONS, from every one. In this case I’m not suggesting my solution is better, but it worked for me. Thanks again Larry!
Thankyou for the good advice! My layout is bedroom size 12x17. My big suggestion to add is: make sure your power house panel had code approved access. And, your radii is the most important decision. Go for at least 24" and if you run steam 28" or more. If you run modern, as big as humany possible..
I looked into this question since Walthers does not address in their instructions. There are 2 SPDT switches on the switch machine that are there to power a frog or other devices. As soon as I get a situation where I need to control just one or two turnouts I’ll use the walthers as a demo. My problem is I usually install 7-8 at a time in a town and use my control panels with either Tortoise or iP Digital switch machines.
Whenever I have computer or pretty much anything electronic problems, I REBOOT, REBOOT, REBOOT! Amazing how many times that worked for me. I even "fixed" my TV that way! haha Great video. If I could do it all over again I would have used better turnouts. Most all problems I have ever incurred have been turnout related. These look like the culmination of many years of evolution. And your detailed review is, as always, great. Thanks a bunch and power those frogs!!
Thanks for the review. These seem to be well-designed turnouts. The few I have tried so far are nice, they look good and the geometry works as well as other makers' parts.
Thanks for answering my question Larry and directing me to your other video regarding manual turnouts and powering frogs. Currently I use all Atlas Custom-line code 83 turnouts with Caboose Industries Switches in which all work well together, but I'm expanding my layout and may consider trying some of the new Walthers turnouts. Great video as usual by the way! Thanks! 😉
Howzit Larry : Like yourself in having made warranted positive comment; these updated; DCC-Friendly WALTHERS Turnouts are excellent in design and do not need any other additional modification out-of-the box; unlike some alternate Manufacturer's products. However; from bitter experience .... Prior to introduction to one's layout / trackwork; ALWAYS check for correct electrical continuity / contact in respect of Jumpers + Tags; this being carried out on removal from the original packing ! Thanx + Regards / Johnny 🤙☝️🚂
Love your videos as always. I would point out though that you just cut the spike heads off with an exacto and slip the rail joiners in between the rail and ties no problem.
Yes, you can do that, BUT it will usually leave you with a bump because the thickness of the rail joiner will push up the ends of the rails. That’s why I undercut them to provide space for the rail joiner. Another trick is to simply place a hot soldering iron tip on the joint long enough to soften the plastic then push down with a screwdriver or pliers and hold it until the plastic hardens. That will usually remove the bump.
Just had an idea; instead of using Fishplates for electrical connectivity, you could try spot welding some nickel strip on the outside of the Rail joint. Might look more realistic and can be easily removed later by picking off.
Various companies make etched brass and bolt plates that can be soldered or glued to the outside of the rails for that extra look of prototype accuracy.
If I have a choice in shipping, I NEVER use UPS for just this reason. That company is just so rough on their customers' goods. Most model railroad-based orders cannot survive rough handling. You're right. You were very lucky. And by the way, thanks for another excellent video!
Nice video Larry. I wish Walthers made their track and turnouts for On30 too with the proper tie sizing and spacing. I would use that instead of Peco. As you know selection of turnouts is limited in the Peco line for On30. I am having to use some of their HO versions with the On30 turnouts.
I am hoping they come out with the larger curved radius curved switches. I have some of the older Walthers Shinohara switches which I believe are 36/32". 24" on the inside is too small.
Great video. Thanks for providing an update to the PSXX. I should have the new PSXX-AR soon and will be playing around with that. Have you done a video on it?
It’s great that Walthers is making larger radius turnouts but I wish they had at least a 30/36 for anyone with a minimum radius of 30 inches. I had heard they were coming out with larger turnouts from a train show but I don’t know if these are those or if they plan others. They are great turnouts. Thank you for doing the review.
I bought 4 of these switches waiting months and months to get them. They seem well made, but are much shorter than the original Shinohara curved turnouts I've been using. They're even shorter than Walther's own new smaller radius turnouts. I wasn't sure length would matter, but when I removed the spring I found the turnout is too hard for a Tortoise switch machine to throw. Thinking it might just be something wrong with the first turnout I opened another one. Same thing. So, not only is the radius smaller than I'd prefer (Shinohara made beautiful larger ones before Walthers bought them, less expensive, too), but they are too stiff for my Tortoise (under 3/4" plywood). Any solution to making them throw more easily?
Code 83 is just that so I am not sure what you mean by they are different sizes unless one is code 83 a d the other code 100. Now there may be minor differences due to tie thickness which can be adjusted using shims or sanding the underside of the ties. The old method to join rails of different code is to put a metal joiner on the larger one then use pliers to flatten the exposed section of joiner. Next place the smaller rail on the flat section if joiner a d solder it in place. By adjusting the thickness if the flattened section you can usually get them to match. I just went down and checked a new Walthers turnout against Peco flex and the Peco seems to have slightly thicker ties. As I said you can shim the turnout or sand the underside of the Peco ties graduating them for about the last 6” before the end.
Good afternoon Larry. My question is I have very old (maybe 30+ years) Atlas nickel silver turnouts, are they DCC friendly/ready? I’ve heard yes and no on them. I’m not very electrically inclined so … I don’t know if they will work with DCC or not? Thanks in advance
They generally are OK, but technology has changed a lot since then and Atlas is doing a much better job with the construction of them and they are now a lot tighter, especially where the point rails are attached to the closure rails. I have a junk box with a bunch of old turnouts that I should toss but just haven’t gotten around to them.
Sell them Larry some people can use them an can't afford to buy expensive ones like me lol not kidding.. I'm gonna go with the Atlas machine s .. I can't do all the expensive computer things... I have 3 toitus machines I might use them on my grade crossing gates...
Larry I got a question? I have walthers older switches #6 and #4. And some new proto switches that your going over. My question is the old switches say DCC friendly but there’s no ring to power the frog? I saw other people flip the switch over and cut out the tie bars and install jumpers going across the switch? What do you recommend I do? I’m also using the walthers curved turnouts too?? Everything runs smooth except a few switches that have no power ring for the frog? Thanks Mike.
On my old ones I just solder a feeder wire directly to one side of the frog and electrify it that way. I have a yard ladder that has 6 of them set up that way. Just be careful doing the soldering since if you overheat the frog the plastic that the individual pieces of rail are set in can soften and get out of shape. Pre-tin both the side of the frog and the wire and it will go a lot faster.
Frog Juicers for the win. And while they do require a short to work, no-one has ever said that this was a problem. Apparently it is so brief it doesn't trigger any breakers or other adverse effects. I wonder if Walthers will offer something akin to their old #8 curved with nominal 32" inner and 36" outer. I managed to get a couple of the DCC friendly before they got rare.
Frog-Juicer : Maybe Larry can further assist / explain. Like yourself; I have used Circuit-Breaker protected F-J's for years without problems; knowing that it is indeed a * Short * that triggers the phase-change of the turnout-frog. However; it is my understanding that the F-J electronically detects the * Short * in a matter of a few milli-seconds; being way quicker on the uptake than the actual DCC control system itself; thus the * Short * does not register as such. From the outset; in having made certain that my wiring is absolutely correct and that the multi-strand wire used for this specific purpose [ Like the main DCC-Bus ]; is of a thick gauge ( 12 AWG ); I have not seen any physical damage to either Loco wheels or of the turnout trackage itself. Similarly; with no evident damage to any of my Decoders; I have full confidence in the use of F-J's to control the required phase-change of * Electro-Frog * type turnouts. Thanx + Regards / Johnny 🤙☝️
How do you remove the spring at the points of the turnout so when using a Tortoise switch machine, you can have slow motion action and take the stress off the throw wire from the Tortoise ?
Yes, these are 2 methods I have done videos on. You cannot use an off the shelf keep alive as they only work with decoders. You could us a decoder to power the lights and attach a keep alive to it but that would be a bit expensive.
Great review! You channel is such a great reference for model railroading! Also hey from a fellow North Carolinian!
RE: Power routing frogs. On my layout I do not power the frogs, and after ten years have no problems, so I’m viewing this as a non-issue. My only issue was with P2K 0-8-0’s and Atlas #8 turnouts, since the entire set of drivers fit on the frog. These engines stalled. My solution to this was to add tender pick up to these four locomotives, as opposed to powering nearly 300 turnout frogs. I find these videos INFINITELY interesting, and I learn TONS, from every one. In this case I’m not suggesting my solution is better, but it worked for me. Thanks again Larry!
Thanks Larry.
Thankyou for the good advice! My layout is bedroom size 12x17.
My big suggestion to add is: make sure your power house panel had code approved access. And, your radii is the most important decision. Go for at least 24" and if you run steam 28" or more. If you run modern, as big as humany possible..
UPS have been taking lessons from Austalia Post by the look of that box Larry.
Update Larry , I used Walther’s code 83 track, no issues at all , but could use a video hookup frogs using Walthers switch machine , great video
I looked into this question since Walthers does not address in their instructions. There are 2 SPDT switches on the switch machine that are there to power a frog or other devices. As soon as I get a situation where I need to control just one or two turnouts I’ll use the walthers as a demo. My problem is I usually install 7-8 at a time in a town and use my control panels with either Tortoise or iP Digital switch machines.
Thanks Larry Great Video as usual.
Outstanding explanation and review. Thank you.
Whenever I have computer or pretty much anything electronic problems, I REBOOT, REBOOT, REBOOT! Amazing how many times that worked for me. I even "fixed" my TV that way! haha Great video. If I could do it all over again I would have used better turnouts. Most all problems I have ever incurred have been turnout related. These look like the culmination of many years of evolution. And your detailed review is, as always, great. Thanks a bunch and power those frogs!!
Thanks for the review. These seem to be well-designed turnouts. The few I have tried so far are nice, they look good and the geometry works as well as other makers' parts.
Thanks for answering my question Larry and directing me to your other video regarding manual turnouts and powering frogs. Currently I use all Atlas Custom-line code 83 turnouts with Caboose Industries Switches in which all work well together, but I'm expanding my layout and may consider trying some of the new Walthers turnouts. Great video as usual by the way! Thanks! 😉
Howzit Larry : Like yourself in having made warranted positive comment; these updated; DCC-Friendly WALTHERS Turnouts are excellent in design and do not need any other additional modification out-of-the box; unlike some alternate Manufacturer's products. However; from bitter experience .... Prior to introduction to one's layout / trackwork; ALWAYS check for correct electrical continuity / contact in respect of Jumpers + Tags; this being carried out on removal from the original packing ! Thanx + Regards / Johnny 🤙☝️🚂
Love your videos as always. I would point out though that you just cut the spike heads off with an exacto and slip the rail joiners in between the rail and ties no problem.
Yes, you can do that, BUT it will usually leave you with a bump because the thickness of the rail joiner will push up the ends of the rails. That’s why I undercut them to provide space for the rail joiner. Another trick is to simply place a hot soldering iron tip on the joint long enough to soften the plastic then push down with a screwdriver or pliers and hold it until the plastic hardens. That will usually remove the bump.
Just had an idea; instead of using Fishplates for electrical connectivity, you could try spot welding some nickel strip on the outside of the Rail joint.
Might look more realistic and can be easily removed later by picking off.
Various companies make etched brass and bolt plates that can be soldered or glued to the outside of the rails for that extra look of prototype accuracy.
look a lot like the peco unifrog design with very small frog area. Good.
If I have a choice in shipping, I NEVER use UPS for just this reason. That company is just so rough on their customers' goods. Most model railroad-based orders cannot survive rough handling. You're right. You were very lucky. And by the way, thanks for another excellent video!
Larry excellent video, I am using the Walthers turnouts and switch machines on my new layout, great job Larry
Nice video Larry. I wish Walthers made their track and turnouts for On30 too with the proper tie sizing and spacing. I would use that instead of Peco. As you know selection of turnouts is limited in the Peco line for On30. I am having to use some of their HO versions with the On30 turnouts.
Larry, you did not put up the older video on powering manual switches?
Thank you
Video #261
I am hoping they come out with the larger curved radius curved switches. I have some of the older Walthers Shinohara switches which I believe are 36/32". 24" on the inside is too small.
Great video. Thanks for providing an update to the PSXX. I should have the new PSXX-AR soon and will be playing around with that. Have you done a video on it?
Just got one last week and will be doing a video on it soon.
Larry, can you explain the difference between a DC-friendly and a DCC-friendly turnout? Thank you.
I discussed that back in video #63. It’s old and low quality as I had to use a point and shoot camera while my Sony camcorder was in the shop.
Watch the gauge issues. Oak Hill Model railraod track has tie rods to fix this
It’s great that Walthers is making larger radius turnouts but I wish they had at least a 30/36 for anyone with a minimum radius of 30 inches. I had heard they were coming out with larger turnouts from a train show but I don’t know if these are those or if they plan others. They are great turnouts. Thank you for doing the review.
Atlas makes one with a 30” outside radius.
Thank you, I meant the inside radius being a minimum radius of 30 inches. Hopefully they make more.
I bought 4 of these switches waiting months and months to get them. They seem well made, but are much shorter than the original Shinohara curved turnouts I've been using. They're even shorter than Walther's own new smaller radius turnouts. I wasn't sure length would matter, but when I removed the spring I found the turnout is too hard for a Tortoise switch machine to throw. Thinking it might just be something wrong with the first turnout I opened another one. Same thing. So, not only is the radius smaller than I'd prefer (Shinohara made beautiful larger ones before Walthers bought them, less expensive, too), but they are too stiff for my Tortoise (under 3/4" plywood). Any solution to making them throw more easily?
I'm really hoping for a comment and help from Larry.
Larry do you have a way to join Peco track code 83 to Walthers turnouts, track size is different
Code 83 is just that so I am not sure what you mean by they are different sizes unless one is code 83 a d the other code 100. Now there may be minor differences due to tie thickness which can be adjusted using shims or sanding the underside of the ties. The old method to join rails of different code is to put a metal joiner on the larger one then use pliers to flatten the exposed section of joiner. Next place the smaller rail on the flat section if joiner a d solder it in place. By adjusting the thickness if the flattened section you can usually get them to match.
I just went down and checked a new Walthers turnout against Peco flex and the Peco seems to have slightly thicker ties. As I said you can shim the turnout or sand the underside of the Peco ties graduating them for about the last 6” before the end.
Good afternoon Larry. My question is I have very old (maybe 30+ years) Atlas nickel silver turnouts, are they DCC friendly/ready? I’ve heard yes and no on them. I’m not very electrically inclined so … I don’t know if they will work with DCC or not? Thanks in advance
They generally are OK, but technology has changed a lot since then and Atlas is doing a much better job with the construction of them and they are now a lot tighter, especially where the point rails are attached to the closure rails. I have a junk box with a bunch of old turnouts that I should toss but just haven’t gotten around to them.
Sell them Larry some people can use them an can't afford to buy expensive ones like me lol not kidding.. I'm gonna go with the Atlas machine s .. I can't do all the expensive computer things... I have 3 toitus machines I might use them on my grade crossing gates...
Larry I got a question? I have walthers older switches #6 and #4. And some new proto switches that your going over. My question is the old switches say DCC friendly but there’s no ring to power the frog? I saw other people flip the switch over and cut out the tie bars and install jumpers going across the switch? What do you recommend I do? I’m also using the walthers curved turnouts too?? Everything runs smooth except a few switches that have no power ring for the frog? Thanks Mike.
On my old ones I just solder a feeder wire directly to one side of the frog and electrify it that way. I have a yard ladder that has 6 of them set up that way. Just be careful doing the soldering since if you overheat the frog the plastic that the individual pieces of rail are set in can soften and get out of shape. Pre-tin both the side of the frog and the wire and it will go a lot faster.
Frog Juicers for the win. And while they do require a short to work, no-one has ever said that this was a problem. Apparently it is so brief it doesn't trigger any breakers or other adverse effects. I wonder if Walthers will offer something akin to their old #8 curved with nominal 32" inner and 36" outer. I managed to get a couple of the DCC friendly before they got rare.
Frog-Juicer : Maybe Larry can further assist / explain. Like yourself; I have used Circuit-Breaker protected F-J's for years without problems; knowing that it is indeed a * Short * that triggers the phase-change of the turnout-frog. However; it is my understanding that the F-J electronically detects the * Short * in a matter of a few milli-seconds; being way quicker on the uptake than the actual DCC control system itself; thus the * Short * does not register as such. From the outset; in having made certain that my wiring is absolutely correct and that the multi-strand wire used for this specific purpose [ Like the main DCC-Bus ]; is of a thick gauge ( 12 AWG ); I have not seen any physical damage to either Loco wheels or of the turnout trackage itself. Similarly; with no evident damage to any of my Decoders; I have full confidence in the use of F-J's to control the required phase-change of * Electro-Frog * type turnouts. Thanx + Regards / Johnny 🤙☝️
I would rather use screws instead of spikes. But are screws available to do that?
Check at your hardware store.
Yes they are available
How do you remove the spring at the points of the turnout so when using a Tortoise switch machine, you can have slow motion action and take the stress off the throw wire from the Tortoise ?
You just pop off the little cover plate with an extra blade and it comes right out-explained in those instructions I showed.
Another great, informative video. Would keep alives have enough power to allow a loco to travel through the switch?
I assume you mean over the frog? Yes, that’s one thing they’re used for.
@@TheDCCGuy Yes sir, the frog. Thank you.
Larry, Can I use a simple keep Alive system to power the lights in my On30 Bachmann Passenger Cars, without a decoder?
Mark, watch videos 101 & 120.
Larry, Are you sure you addresed my question in 101 and 140?@@TheDCCGuy
Yes, these are 2 methods I have done videos on. You cannot use an off the shelf keep alive as they only work with decoders. You could us a decoder to power the lights and attach a keep alive to it but that would be a bit expensive.
hello larry its is randy and i like yours video is cool and super cool larry and model railroading super larry thanks friends randy
Yippee