Make Your Old Turnouts DCC Friendly (121)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ส.ค. 2020
- There are tens and probably even hundreds of thousands of old turnouts taht are not DCC Friendly. However here is a an easy step by step procedure for making them safe for use with your DCC equipment. So sit back with your favorite brew and get ready to soak it all in--you'll be doing this in no time.
- แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
I use a piece of phosphor bronze wire across each side of the rail joiner that was inserted for the point blade. this also helps retain the blade. As for the metal throwbar why not leave it in place, drill out the rivet, and solder the PC board to the metal throw and then make a cut across the metal throw bar t and the metal layer of the PC board tie.
Holy crap this video is just dripping years of knowledge
Great procedure, well explained. Thank you.
Thank You Larry !!...so much appreciate all your tutorials 💪💪
Thank you Larry for a beautiful video on converting those turnouts! This was Very Helpful 😊👍🤩
Gezz Larry I've watched your how to's for awhile the more I do the more I sure appreciate your tutelage
I’ve been converting many switches this way but your techniques are far superior to mine. I shall up grade mine immediately thanks to you. Keep on keeping these videos coming.
Thanks, Joe
Thanks for this very helpful video DCC Guy!
I dropped model railroading around 2000 and then picked it up again about three years ago, so I missed much of the development of DCC over that 20 year period. Thank you, Larry, for showing why "DCC Friendly" applied to turnouts is not just marketing hype. Your historical comments really helped explain this to me. Cheers from Wisconsin!
I worked out that i was going to have to do something along this line because i wasn't getting good electrical connection at point to stock rail. You have made this look easy and as soon as i get the pc board ties i will give this a go. THANKS!
Very very helpful this was, Thank you
This was really helpful. Thank you!
well explained, many thanks
Great explanation…keep up the good work 🚂
I had wondered why I was getting shorts every time I tried to run my newly DCC control on my old DC layout. Now I Know!!! Thanks heaps, I'll be going over my whole layout and fixing it up as per your instructions. Quite a job, but at least I'll get a thoroughly working layout!
Hi Larry, Love your insight into model railroading and I have over 50 old Shinohara switches and I just converted my first one following your video and using the PC Tie Boards and solder you recommended! I am happy to share it work like a charm and my short went away and I now feel confident to finish the modifications for rest of those switches. Also added the Tam Valley Frog Juicer and my locomotive rolls through the switch with no hesitation. Thanks and keep the tips coming!
Video is awesome thank you for these great vids !!!
Excellant demonstration on ho wto turn insulfrog into electrofrog (for the Brits watching). I have tons of insulfrog and am about to go DCC, they simply do not work as well. So this is going to save me buying all new. Thanks for an explicit and great demonstation.
Larry Great video. I wish that I'd seen this two years ago because I tore out 90 old Shinohara turnouts and replaced them with one made using the Fast Tracks system. In the end, I'm happy with the results but it did cost me about $1000. Your process looks very good.
Great video. Very informative.
Stay well. -Wil 👍
I have a Shinohara right hand curved turnout on my workbench right now. I have isolated the frog, but only cut the rails before the frog and installed a styrene strip. I'll use plastic rail joiners on the two frog rails, like on a Peco Electrofrog. The feeder will be soldered on the side away from the aisle. I like your method of providing power to the point rails, I never though of that! Stay safe!
Thanks Larry!
Thank you Larry. You saved me from a huge headache on my layout after I had to use a Shinahara.
Glad it helped
One thing I have found out, not all Shinohara turnouts are alike. The brass contacts that you pull out from under the rails were all soldered in place on my Shinohara switches. 11 out of 12 switches, only 1 popped out as easily as yours did! Thankfully I am very comfortable desoldering them and removing them. Just another twist to look out for. Excellent video by the way!
I run DC and still like your videos! Thanks, $4
A local hobby shop owner, who was closing his business, had a copy paper box full of those curved turnouts, He gave me the box for free. I had been wondering about how to use those. I’m going follow your steps to makes those DCC friendly. Then use those in my hidden staging area for my On30 layout. My visible tracks are Peco O-16.5 for On30. Peco switches get expensive quickly in staging yards. The only thing I would do different is I would attach my 12 inch long feeder wires across the rails where you put those short pieces of solid wire. Thank you for the video.
A very iformative video. I do dc only, but I can use the method to avoid my trans to stal over my insulated frogs. Thank you ever so much. Steen, Denmark.
great how to do video
very good
I really like my newer Shinohara turnouts. They are DCC friendly. It's a shame that Shinohara is out of business. In October of 2020 Walthers is said to be coming out with a new line of DCC friendly turnouts. Can't wait to get my hands on some of them.
Tech tip for soldering on track .... use a small tipped fiberglass or metal bristle brush to clean the track to be soldered. then clean with alcohol swab before soldering. Dab rosin flux on surface then solder really hot really fast. Perfect solder joint every time with no melted ties. Silver bearing solder will generally melt at a slightly higher temperature.
Great solder. I use same for everything I do. 2% silver.
don't have anything to do with me I'm not DCC and not ever planning on going DCC I'm staying DC it's so much easier less headaches n problems and a lot cheaper nice video thou hope it helps somebody
If you place two or three spots of Blue Tack on top of the ends of the rails it will help to give a firm base to solder.
Dick-Good idea!
I don’t have a Dra-mell tool but I have a Dremel
Also, all of the converted turnouts have metal frogs.
How would you do this to in place hand laid turnouts? Also how do you remove the cladding from center of the clover house ties?
Why didn't you use an NMRA gauge when you set the point rails on the PCB tie? Couldn't just eyeing the point rails cause a derailment, just an inch down the point rails the wheels could drop on the ties because there is too large a gap?
Best regards,
Your videos are of excellent quality and full of content.
I have seen all your turnout videos and I am in an uncertain situation
since I am not an expert on the subject.
I am a train modeling novice. I recently bought a Fleischmann starter set. (My first train in my life)
The set which is digital is:
931886 - FLEISCHMANN Premium - z21 Digital starter set:
electric locomotive class 194 with goods train, DB
The track is oval in shape with double rails on one side simulating a station,
with entry and exit deviation.
The turnouts are Fleischmann N Left and Right hand curved point Ref: 9168 and 9169
"for manual operation with current-conducting frog"
And Fleischmann official website say:
Turnouts with a conductive frog must always be set in the direction of travel
from which de train is comming, otherwise a shor circuit will occur.
The requiered changeover or the polarity or the frog takes place automatically
when de switch is changed.
Reading on the internet, I found a quote that said:
From: Digital Command Control.
Ames et al, Allt om Hobby/NMRA;
1998 ..... "The ideal turnout is frog electrically isolated and powered by switch contacts"
I have three questions:
1. Are these Fleischmann Tournouts frog electrically isolated and powered by switch contacts?
2. If no, from your experience, ¿what kind of turnout are these?
3. The set is supposed to be ready to run, (I couldn't say for sure )
¿Do i need some kind of special wiring in order to avoid short circuits?
This is my first train, it is expensive, and it would be terrible
if I were to damage it by improper handling.
I would appreciate it if you could advise me on this matter.
Greetings
Hector
I wish I could help but I have never even seen a Fleishmann turnout and have no idea whether the frog is insulated or can be separately powered. If you have a multimeter you can test it to see though (see video 86 on using a multimeter). From your description it is hard to say whether the frog is powered by contact at the points or designed to be powered by switch contacts or a frog juicer. In either case operating a locomotive on it should cause no harm, it will mean that either the frog may lost power or have no power at all. You also might want to view my video on turnouts (no. 77).
Great information but my question is how do you power the frog when your NOT using a switch machine and will be throwing the switch manually?
You can’t unless you use a Frog Juicer.
If you use a file and cut a groove into the bottom of the ties, you could hide the wire to the closure rails better ...
Instead of connecting the closure rails to the point rails by a 30 ga wire, why not solder the rail joiner connecting the closure to the point rail? The point rail will still move back and forth as easily.
Might work of might be too stiff for your switch machine. Only way to know is by trying one.
Could you have soldered the rail joint between the point rail and closure rail instead of soldering a piece of 30 gauge wire as you did?
That would not give you the electrical connection between the closure rail and stock rail, which is what you want. You don’t want to rely on the physical contact between the point rail an stock rail for power. Too many things like ballast, foam scenery, paint, cat hair, etc., can get in the way.
Have a double crossover need to make it dcc frendily
See if this helps: wiringfordcc.com/DoubleCrossover_Galyon.pdf
Larry -- The atlas nscale code 55 turnouts fail a lot .. especially around the frog and closure rails .. would be a good video to show how to fix those
Ye gods those things are tiny! Be careful... or as the taxi driver said, be car-ful!
I really found this video useful. However, my question is not related to this video but several that you have posted in the past. I have obtained the European style terminal/barrier strips that you have referred to in other videos. How do you attach them underneath your layout? Do you Scotch double sided tape or the like? Thanks, Kennedy
They have screw holes between the terminals. Just insert a properly sized wood screw and attach it to a wooden beam under the layout.
@@TheDCCGuy Okay. That was so obvious that I failed to see it. I would agues a No. 6 x 1 inch pan head screw will fit the bill. Thanks for your help and quick response.
How do you determine the spacing of the points?
By eye based on what they were before I pulled them apart.
Here's a question I have, if you don't mind. A little set-up first; I have a setup made with Bachmann track. Including 4 switches and crossovers made by Bachmann. Well, after getting my 4th DCC loco I realized it might be easier to use an NCE Power Cab (I could access my Locos by their road numbers.) So I've done that. Now, here is my question - Could I use my Bachmann E-Z Command Controller to operate the switches and crossovers, while using the NCE to operate the locos, at the same time?
Well right off let me say you cannot mix commands from two different command stations at the same time on the same track. However if the bus for the switches is completely separate from the track then you could do it but you would not be able to operate the switches using your throttle if that is what you want. Your nest net is to see your Bachmann controller and buy either an inexpensive booster like the one made by Tamm Valley Depot or upgrade to the SB5 which will give you 5 amps and expanded capabilities.
@@TheDCCGuy Thank you. What I was hoping was to use the Bachmann only for the switches. no throttling at all.
Larry, I see that Atlas are finally modernizing their much maligned HO switches and next month will bring out their new Mark V series that are described as DCC-friendly. Any chance you will produce a review of them some time? Cheers, Peter
I will get in line and see if I can get one once they come out. Also will try a new Walthers one at the same time and hopefully kill 2 birds, etc.
@@TheDCCGuy Perfect!!
I am new to DCC. My layout is 25 years old (all DC) and I am converting it all to DCC. I have successfully converted 7 or 8 turnouts using the instructions in this excellent video, Except for the part where you mention powering the newly isolated frog. Electronically everything works except the now dead spot where the frog is. How do I power the isolated frog?
You need to solder a wire to the side of one of the pieces of rail that comprise the frog. Then connect that wire to one of the built-in SPDT switches in a Tortoise or the dedicated frog connection on an iP Digital switch machines. If you are not using motorized turnout machines then you need to either use one of the Caboose ground throws with a built in switch or a Frog Juicer.
I want to install “ frog juicer”, can I use this in my Digitrax dcs240?
The frog juicer connects your frog to your DCC power bus wires it does not go in your DCS240.
Larry,
If I don't modify my Shinohara points for DCC what problems will occur using DCC??
They are just more susceptible to shorts-a real nuisance with DCC.
Thanks for the informative video but I have one problem with this process. When reinstalling the point rails to the pcb throw bar tie, how do you keep the solder from flowing underneath the point rail and soldering the stock rail to it? This has happened to me twice. Thanks, Larry
Practice and use solder sparingly.
I have had success looping a small piece of paper under the stock rail as a barrier while soldering the point rail.
Are you familiar with the Bachmann EZ track DCC turnouts? I recently purchased two that had as part of the turnouts description that they have electrically wired frogs. However the #4 turnout has a plastic frog and the instructions on either of the turnouts do not describe how the electrically wired frog functions. Thanks
Sorry but I have never tried those or the Kato versions. You might see if there is a Bachmann help forum on www.Groups.io
Model Railroading With The DCC Guy Thanks
Does N Scale have the same problems with their switches? If so did you do a video on that? Thank you.
Yes, N scale is even more sensitive to power pickup issues. Unfortunately I don’t have any N-scale equipment any long and only know of 1 person in my area with them so it would be hard for me to do anything in that scale.
@@TheDCCGuy I will just look around more. Thank you for keeping your post to around 20 to 30 minutes. I get bored when watching anything over 25 minutes and fall asleep. These sites that do 1 hour or even 3 hours must not have lives. Again thank you I learn a lot.
Hello, do you have an help on changing KATO R550 22.5 power routing turnouts (with all metal frog) to non-power routing?
Sorry but I have avoided those and similar ones from Bachmann.
@@TheDCCGuy I understand.
Buonasera non si può avere una traduzione in italiano? Grazie
You need to turn on captions in your settings and select Italian.
Are the Micro Engineering ladder switches DCC ready. When i look at their website they do not say. i am looking to use their switches in my new yard.
As far as I know they are constructed the same way as the regular turnouts. I will likely get a chance to test them on my staging yards.
@@TheDCCGuy I will be interested to see what you find out
if you go here microengineering.com/Micro_Engineering_Ladder_Track_System_v1.pdf they have a lot of info on them and they say they are DCC compatible which I assume means DCC Friendly.
@@TheDCCGuy thank you again i will check it out
Larry, is that a new hair cut? Looking sharp.
Yes, my wife has a newly discovered talent courtesy of the COVID pandemic.
She has done a good job. I've also resorted to alternatives to my normal haircuts thanks to Covid. Thanks from Australia for your great content.
for the amount of money we spend on these things......they should be plug and play. annoying. but i have work to do now
Hi. I like your show and I am interesting to have information about how I can make the old turnout to DCC Friendly? Thanks for your understanding my matter.
AALWABIL
Thanks for your reply.
OK.... I got what you may consider a dumb question ..
Since HO runs on DC current, why aren't all switches made for HO "DC friendly"?
This make absolutely no sense to me.
You seem to be really missing the point here. There is a big difference between DC and DCC and this video is about DCC, note the second “C”.
Why did you add the 2-30 ga wires, when the power was already feeding your points at the PC board, you installed. There is no reason for that connection of 30ga wire.
One of the biggest problems comes from trying to rely on the physical contact at the points for electrical continuity. A physical contact like that is highly unreliable. Get a piece of ballast, foam scenery, cat hair, etc. in there and your loco will stop dead in its tracks. And that’s why powering the closure and point rails is the DCC Friendly thing to do. Also even though the copper strip is under the rail there is no reliable physical connection at the PC board either.
The DCC Guy I have been building Fast Track switches for years. If the points that you removed are solder to the PC board, it is highly unlikely there will be a power problem. On your redesign switch
I am a firm believer in Murphy’s Law-“if it can happen it eventually will happen”. I try to never rely on physical contacts for electrical continuity, especially on a model railroad, and with DCC where good electrical continuity is even more important.
The DCC Guy you aren’t rely on the points contact at all. Your power path is through the PC board, you solder it all too.
NO, there is no electrical connection to the PC board at all! It is floating under the point rails. Any electrical connection there is incidental and not to be relied upon.
DCC friendly???? No such thing, if it is not DCC friendly it is not friendly to DC or AC either!