UPDATES: 1st. I noticed that Clicking is highly dependant on Rope stiffness (and probably thickness). Had a chance to belay with some soft ropes where Clicking was very very minimal. 2nd Response from Petzl: "Regarding the thumb technique, which does not appear in the NEOX instructions: This technique is possible and can be used with exactly the same precautions as those given for the GRIGRI. We didn't want to show this in the NEOX instructions because it isn't necessary for belaying with the NEOX. In addition, this technique is less pleasant to use than with the GRIGRI because the facets of the NEOX wheel generate more rope friction. Clicks: We have published a technical tip explaining why this noise occurs: www.petzl.com/GB/en/Sport/Normal-sound-of-the-NEOX-when-taking-up-slack?ProductName=NEOX So far, we have not found a simple, robust design to eliminate this click noise. Finally, as you may have noticed, the principle of the NEOX is different from the REVO in that it is not triggered by the speed of rotation of the wheel, but requires an initial effort to engage the lock - a very small effort from the hand on the braking side"
"Finally, as you may have noticed, the principle of the NEOX is different from the REVO in that it is not triggered by the speed of rotation of the wheel, but requires an initial effort to engage the lock - a very small effort from the hand on the braking side" I am really new to rope climbing, I've been bouldering for a few months, but rope climbing I did yesterday for the first time, so I hope this is not a dumb question, but .. wouldn't doing it by speed be safer?
@@thelogan4641 Speed based safety features only ensure that the device will lock if you don't hold the brake side of the rope, which doesn't apply to 99% of climbing scenarios. The Revo is basically a fancy tube with a rope release safety, not an assisted braking device. The neox/grigri will lock as long as you hold the brake side of the rope and the climber's side is weighted, meaning it'll hold a climber with virutally no effort from the belayer. They are two very different safety feature styles.
@@elouanhildgen-poirier5346 I've seen a bunch more videos and I kinda get the idea, I am thinking it might not be a bad idea as a backup feature inside the belaying device, but I also get why it isn't needed and seen some videos with the issues with them too, like with friction it can take some time (distance) to reach 4m/s
Such an unbiased video is really precious, leaving climbers the real power (through knowledge and not marketing) to decide whether or not to choose this device. Contratulations to Petzl as well to leave you the freedom to make an honest and scientific video, that should be appreciated as well.
it's a bit biased here. you can notice the focus is on a way to use it which is even not perfectly safe with a Grigri - a good thing Hardiseasy put it on light last year which as it shows a user must always pay attention to the climber to be able to grab the rope instantly. In this video he considers it is not super convenient to use it properly, that is to say to feed slack as with an ATC (he says less convenient as the belay device moves, and as it is little harder to take someone). This shoud not be a subject. Priority is not a little less confort to take slack quickly (and even this is really ok with Neox), priority is to have a device which is more safe. And that is the case with the Neox. The fact you always keep the rope in the hand is the fact. I also use it since 5 month and I would definitely advise it to every climber with little experience. It is super safe. And also really good with fat or tough gym ropes. Nevertheless I can understand your point of less convenient and noise issue but only for people who work hard routes and need to be taken a lot. Grigri is more confortable here.
In my opinion safety is not the only priority for a climber who spends hours and hours at the crag; priorities should be as well the cost (that is almost double than the grigri), the maneuverability (the same), noise (worse)...in general the question is: "is it worthy?" Because if you tell me it's easier for beginners i answer you that beginners should rather take courses to learn how devices actually work instead of not bothering buying an "easier" device. 😊
@@nichope9 I have seen pro climbers or guides letting their climbers fall on the ground. A moment of distraction linked with a sudden fall may always happen. Some belay devices will always be safer than others.
To recap : the new grigri is not called grigri, but it's the first to make "gri gri" sounds 😂. Jokes aside, thanks for the great quality content. Awesome as always. I learn something every time.
It's strange here the focus is on a way to use it which is even not perfectly safe with a Grigri - as Hardiseasy put it on light last year which was good to show that a user must always pay attention to the climber to be able to grab the rope instantly. In this video you consider it is not super convenient to use it properly, that is to say to feed slack as with an ATC (less convenient as the belay device moves, and as it is little harder to take someone). This shoud not be a subject. Priority is not a little less confort to take slack quickly (and even this is really ok with Neox), priority is to have a device which is more safe. And that is the case with the Neox. The fact you always keep the rope in the hand is the fact. I also use it since 5 month and I would definitely advise it to every climber with little experience. It is super safe. And also really good with fat or tough gym ropes. Nevertheless I can understand your point of less convenient and noise issue but only for people who work hard routes and need to be taken a lot. Grigri is more confortable here.
Tubular device lover here, I've been using the neox for a couple sessions now and I'm loving it, it feels like a tubular which I like, but the key thing is that I can keep my climber up with very little force on the brake strand, that was the only thing annoying me about tubular devices, that holding a climber up would take a fair bit of effort compared to a grigri
As someone who learned belaying with a tube, the Revo is still unbeatable for me. Catches soft as a tuber, no jumping required, but with the added benefit of not letting people fall to their death if you mess up. I think the Neox is trying to solve a problem that does not really exist. While I prefer the Revo when I will likely have to catch a fall, I still prefer the Grigri for the warmup stuff. Stand there, thumbs down, pay out slack and that's it. No locking up with the 9.6-9.8 ropes we are typically using for sports climbing. I can't really see why people complain so much about the Grigri catching
@@foobar9220 As someone who tried the revo after some time with the gri gri, I enjoyed the smooth tube-like rope feeding but holding a climber at "take" position still requires a noticeable amount of force compared to gri gri which is kind of a bummer. And locking the device manually while the climber is already in this position is somewhat possible but not easy/comfortable
@@ArielBiMBa Yes, that is the biggest drawback. Although I found, it is quite possible to lock off the climbers strand with the left hand and lock the Revo with the right hand.
I'm an "if it ain't broke don't fix it" kinda guy. My only worry is more moving parts provide for more points of failure. Time will tell. Great video! 👍🏽
It’s made by Petzl and not by Edelrid! Therefore I don’t think much about failure. E.g. if I can remember correctly, the tryout started last autumn. P.s. if you touch the Neox and the pinch, only one device feels like it’s a proper developed and lasting one
Thanks a lot... I saw some people trying the Neon last week indoors and there was some kind of uncertainty if it's as safe as the GriGri ... so they tested it by falling and two people securing the fall... everything worked out just fine, but I got the impression as if some doubts if it's as good as the GriGri remained ... I really appreciate all the effort your putting into your videos and into climbers security! :)
@@marcus_diy correct, but it is the CE test requirement to pass the certification. Edit: found the test requirements to pass the certification, if you’re interested avs.edelrid.com/images/attribut/EN_15151-1.pdf
@@marcus_diy not really because there are 2 types of CE certification for belay devices in the EU. It’s either EN 15151-2 and EN 15151-1. EN15151-2 does not have any requirements for braking force and contains all the tube style devices. EN 15151-1 does have a braking force requirement to pass and has been only passed by devices as Grigri, Revo, Eddy and now the Neox. With my original remark I’m just saying that the Neox is in the same certification category as the Grigri, so both are able to catch a factor 2 fall with an 80kg weight at 100cm above the belay device without holding the rope and a max of 150cm rope slippage.
Speaking about the pinch, I think the grigri is a more fair comparison than the neox, as the working principle is the same. That said, I like the pinch more than the grigri because I can attach it at the harness, and that makes it way more comfortable
@@HardIsEasy Thank you. I don't climb at all, but your content is always super interesting (as is How Not 2's). I appreciate your dedication to using the devices first, rather than "first impressions".
Not sure why brake assisted tube devices (like Smart, Mega jul, Pilot, etc..) aren't more popular. To me they're the perfect balance of smoothly feeding rope and safety. Add in low cost and light weight and they're ideal devices imho.
I have the pilot and love it for that reason. People I teach like it too. It's so much like an ATC while having a little added safety and comfort. AND there's no moving parts! I remember the discussion around the climb forums about the Pilot basically being "if your life depends on it, then just spend the extra cash for the Gri Gri." Nice to see that piece of 'wisdom' is starting to become outdated. They're both proven devices. Plus having those financially accessible devices on the market are a good thing. More assisted braking at the crag saves lives.
I'm a user of both a Grigri and a Mega Jul. Let me clarify. Taking rope is harder and clumsier with mega jul. The thicker the rope, the harder it is. Same goes for giving slack. Way harder with a thicker and dirtier rope. Thinner ropes (
I've never gotten the hang of the grigri method, to be fair, i haven't tried either. That said, my go-to lead belay device for the past years has been the Revo. Now with the Neox i have a new favorite, mainly because of the ease of holding a climber who's projecting. I did notice that it is abit 'jerky' as the climber is about to start climbing again after a fall or hang, it needs to "click" out before the wheel starts spinning again, but i didn't notice it when lowering a climber. So far i am impressed. this is the "grigri" for those of use who never got the hang of using a grigri.
I'm exactly one of the belayers which you described at 2:50. I bought a Neox and I'm very happy with it! :-) Also, when I belay with a cam-style device (before the Neox I used regularly both a GriGri and a Beal Birdie), I usually don't have issues with the device "bouncing around," because I attach it with a smaller carabiner that keeps the device closer to my body.
Thank you for this video. Still a Cinch fan, and other belay devices other than Gri Gri. As with all complicated belay devices they are considered assisted braking and not auto braking for a reason. Proper belay technique is paramount to poor belay techniques and attentiveness to holding the brake end of the rope. The accidents will keep on happening until this is addressed and the NEOX has done this. But then again, there are other more simpler devices that already provide smooth belay with assisted braking features.
I think the clicking could serve a useful purpose of giving the belayer audible and tactile feedback that they need to pay attention and mind the brake side of the rope. So while it does rely on the belayer more than the GriGri, it still does better than an ATC because it does auto lock in some scenarios and alerts the belayer in others
what I recognized with my NEOX (climbing a 9.8mm rope) that when you hold the rope in the Gaswerk methode BUT you don't push the cam down with the thumb, the rope runs smoothly through the device. No clicking or blocking.
nice work. Even after 35 years of climbing, I watch your videos because you really do a great job going over devices and techniques. keep on clicking! PS. I started belaying around the hip with hemp rope so as long as it isn’t a pulley, any belay device works fine as long as it adds a little friction.
So, almost smooth and safe like an assisted-tuber style device, more expensive than a Grigri. I think my Mammut Smart works better and costs 1/3 of the Neox. I don't understeand why advanced belayers and climbers are so Grigri oriented (and I bought a Grigri as first belay device and used for 2/3 years). Thank you for your review, now I'm waiting something about the Edelrid Pinch!
As someone that works in the industry in the UK, we are pretty much forced into using a Grigri, I've always preferred other devices, both assisted and non assisted. I think Grigri is one of the devices that are most frequently used incorrectly and encourage incorrect technique. I'll give this new device a go but in terms of buying an expensive device the (complicated looking) alpine up is top of my list.
The Neox has two friction states: (1) spinning wheel, where the rope doesn't slip and rides on bearings with rolling friction; and (2) locked wheel, where the rope slips and has sliding friction. It's the transition between these two states that both causes the clicking and the sudden drop when lowering. While this makes "learning" the friction of the Neox more difficult than Gri Gri, is this a learnable behavior (i.e. is the change in friction states predictable)? If so, then I think long term use could produce the same use expertise as with Gri Gri, albeit with a different learning curve.
Thank you very Much!! I´ve never try it, i will do it. Your "Strange Xperiments" are really amazing for the climber comunity! You are doing amazing work since longtime with your videos! Thanks anothertime ;) Keep On Climbing!! PuuPuuu!!
Great testing giving us very helpfull information, also you are fun to watch with great humor, easy going with a laid back demeanor, and understandable explanations to your crazy experiments! Thnx from a noob-to-climbing, and geek =)
Hey Ben! As a frenchy frog myself i can assure you there is absolutely no region in France, even in the most remoted ones, where someone would pronounce it "Niiouuuu" 😂 Great and interesting video as always! Grigri forever. ❤
Used one today. It pays out so easily on an old 10mm rope that I had to double check my rope was in the device. Far smoother than an ATC, it's remarkable. Issues: lowering the climber requires more strength than the grigri on the lever and its slower as well. It also causes more friction to the breaking hand, so much so that I wanted to wear a belay glove. Warning ⚠️ the wheel gets HOT after lowering a climber 12.5m. I was surprised how hot. Based on this I would strongly advise you don't absail on this device. Use it solely for single pitch sports belaying.
Thanks for the detailed honest review and your great content in general. 👍 Since i really enjoy pushing down the cam with the Neox in certain situations where i want to give a lot of slack very quickly i wrote to Petzl-Germany. Long story short: There is no safety concern using the correct "Gaswerk"-method with the Neox. Here the full response from Petzl - Germany - Aftersales: Die Gaswerkmethode kann mit genau den gleichen Vorsichtsmaßnahmen wie beim GRIGRI angewendet werden. Wir haben dies nicht in die NEOX-Anleitung aufgenommen, da es zum Sichern mit dem NEOX nicht notwendig ist. Wenn Sie gewohnt sind, mit dem GRIGRI und der Gaswerkmethode zu sichern, braucht es erfahrungsgemäß etwas Umgewöhnung beim Sichern mit dem NEOX das Seil gleichzeitig mit der Bremshand in das Gerät einzuführen, während die Führungshand Seil herauszieht (wie bei der Tuber-Sicherung).
My overall takeaway: Both are good, both are safe. They have slightly different strengths, so while the Neox is not an across-the-board upgrade, there are reasons some people would prefer it. Since I already have a GriGri, I don't think I'll be running out to buy a Neox, unless I get the chance to try one and love it. Great video as always. Good tests and explanations.
A crossover from a neox and a edelrid pinch with the possibility to fix the device directly in the belay loop would be better. Combine it with a smallish belay loop and belaying would be mch more comfortable.
“Always lock, and no clicky sound, and maybe improve the ergonomics that would be the ideal belay device” Love this video and the answer is the Trango Vergo. All the criteria above is met and tested by Hard is Easy.
Tried it out for the first time yesterday, instantly fell in love with it despite not getting along with the regular grigri... The pulley system makes giving slack faster than a tube, which is an insane feeling.
Don't have time for Brilliant while attempting brilliance and working on my climbing, but wanted to mention that your channel rocks, because it does, and for the algorithm heck. Cheers mate, Daniel
Been using the Neox for about a month now and I don't touch the grigri very often anymore. The clicking is kind of annoying but it doesn't bother me much. For the guiding work I do I find the reduced friction really nice for belaying from above and for belaying top-ropes. Less work on the shoulders and elbows. It's also been nice for having clients belay me without needing to teach the grigri thumb block for feeding rope to me. In my personal climbing I've found I revert back to the normal grigri style of feeding rope like you've mentioned, because of the comfort. I've also found if I'm not paying attention well and my leader is clipping, the fast attempt to feed slack still locks the Neox and I short the leader. The normal grigri belay keeps me from doing that. If I'm doing any kind of stuff off a fixed line I opt for the grigri.
I love these videos. I really appreciate the deep dive and slow careful pacing of what you say and show. It’s so much better than these fast jump cuts and super fast yelling people do in videos now to appease the algorithm.
Full time instructor, & I teach a no thumb method on GRIGRI. It’s not as ‘comfortable’ AT FIRST but it reduces risk & becomes really easy to avoid camming with a little practice!
My favorite device cannot be any Petzel device just because of the cost. In my opinion, the best safety/functionality-to-cost ratio is the mammut smart, but if we add the bonus of comfort I would say bd pilot is close winner. I still chose the smart.
What weight was used in a no hand situation in minute 7?🤔 Although the speed of falling climber would be thereotically same, I suspect, the tension in the rope would depend on the falling climber's weight and it could potentially affect how quickly the caming mechanism engages.
To your point about the Neox flopping around while belaying, couldn't you just hold onto the folded metal ridge without using the thumb to hold down the cam?
Oooh this is a great point. That also gets rid of the issue of preparing to give slack and then needing to take. As someone using a tubular device, the biggest downside to me is the little jerk when you start to lower from a hanging position. And the click clack 😂
What I do, I lift the belay device with my right thumb. So I am not holding it but merely lifting it. Works great for me to get rid of this „flopping around“.
This looks like a fantastic device, which solves one of the main issues I've had with the grigri - paying out slack. Unfortunately it does come at the cost of complexity. Tubers, assisted locking tubers and the grigri were all simple enough that I could see how wear would affect the device, and reason about how they could fail. This meant I could be happy that I was confident they would fail-safe in the event of wear on the system. I don't yet know enough about the operation of the neox to be able to say the same. The number of moving parts has significantly increased, so it's much harder to say how wear will affect the device. I'm sure the engineers behind this have given it a lot of thought, but the more complex the device, the higher the chance that a failure mode might slip through, and there will be some obscure way in which it could fail. When the part in question is a belay device, for me personally, I have to be 100% certain that it will fail-safe after many years of use and wear
It sounds like you are looking for the Mad Rock Safeguard or Lifeguard device. Slides smoothly, makes no click, has auto-stop and works best with one hand on the feed, but not required for safety.
What I love about real climbers, always here to help each other improve no mater what. Thank you for being a real climber and thank you Petzl, for giving us another tool to keep us all climbing safe! Another tool in the tool box.
Saw a Neox at the crag three days ago. Didn't see the big deal. Using Mammut Smart(er) now and love it. Planning to get a Trango Vergo, after trying in my gym, as I think giving slack is easier, and 'oops' no hands lock-up is higher-p. Great vids - keep it up!
This was very interesting, thanks! I would also be really interested to see how you think things like the Matik or especially the Pinch compare and how they do in your tests!
@@gebhardio The Jul models are all very similar to each other on giving slack. Not as smooth as a ATC, but much smoother than a Grigri. I find they are also smoother than a Grigri when lowering. I'm a long time user of all three types, and my Jul^2 favorite.
I was searching for a camming device and after reviewing your testing of various devices, I decided to go with a trango vergo. I'm really liking it so far, and I think as a lead belay device it seems to be doing everything you're looking for besides feeding slack like the revo. I don't feel like the neox is solving the equation for me, but it's a super neat design.
On my very personal opinion, the best device is always the safest one. I can understand the purpose of Neox, but if we want to be real, situations where the brake hand is needed by the belayer for other urgencies happen all the time. Be it for a falling rock, stomping on the rocks on the ground or any external "panic" situation where your hand is not holding the brake, you want your device to help you. The brake hand, even if it is a rule, it is also dictated by circumstances, and "safety" tools have to take into account them aswell. I don't really need to give slack faster knowing that a human mistake can kill somebody
@@nolanarcher5123 I already watched all his videos. I also got to meet him personally, together with Hana Banana (who lives 2 hours from my place), and I absolutely appreciate his job. Thing is, we don't control circumstances. You can predict as many scenarios as you want, you will always encounter unexpected situations, and I want my belaying device to help me when those happen. A falling rock will always be the best example. And what about wild animals? And what if the belayer faints, or feels brutally sick all of a sudden? Or the thin path where the belayer is standing gives away? I could go on for all the day. You have no control over your body instinct reactions, nor about what happens to you. Everybody agrees about holding the rope with the brake hand, this is undiscussed, but we have to be real: Grigri is safer. Nothing else to be said
Thanks for sharing your opinion and of course for the time, energy and ideas testing equipment. I basically agree with everything except of making it more ergonomic. On my eyes less ergonomic is better on that way people will grab it less and will focus on keep the rope on the hand
the neox strikes me as existing for 2 reasons for climbers: first, to eliminate the need to hold the cam when giving slack, because while it's proven to be safe enough, you _are_ still overriding a safety mechanism when you do that. secondly, it's a cool new innovation that might lead to new emergent techniques, just like the grigri did. petzl might have some ideas internally that they need to test, or they might be keeping an eye on the community to see if there's any new techniques emerging that can make the device more appealing.
Thanks Ben; always very instructive and detailed video experience! I was just waiting for replacing my lovely GriGri with Neox, beacuse i give slack like it shoudl be... maybe I would wait some time for having those improvements like you said
For me, it’s a great crossover between the Revo and the Gri Gri. Super smooth rope feeding of the Revo combined with the cam locking action of the Gri Gri. Sure, the clicky sounds are a bit unfortunate, but I gladly live with them because I don’t have to forcefully hold the rope shut when my climber wants to sit/rest like with the Revo.
I disagree. Petzl missed a big chance there. They should have made the wheel with the same failsafe (4m/s?) with no hands on the device like the Revo. That would have been great. The Neo in my opinion is pretty unnecessary as it is.
A very high quality video as every time ! an aspect which is not covered and which for me is the main interest of the NEOX is the difference in fluidity with the Grigri depending on the rope diameter. The upgrade is not very significant for new small diameter ropes but the belaying is much smoother with large diameter ropes, especially if they are a little old and stiff. Maybe anthore video about this theme ? Thanx a lot for your work !
Great video as always, congrats Ben. I think they are both really safe devices, it's about preference which one do you choose, as long as you ALWAYS hold the break side of the rope
Hi Ben! Today I used it for the first time at the crag and I've found that just resting de Neox on the right hand, without pressing on the cam worked great, I had the chance to catch falls by just closing my hand as with the Grigri and it lets you take slack back very fast from that point. I think this would be my preferred way to belay my climber. Definitely will stick to my previous grigris to tope rope ppl. I've also found that if you pull towards the chains to clean the route, the cam and wheels unlock pretty easy... Basically any movement while climbing that unloads the Neox will have the same thing happening. Also found that it's way easier to just pull on the rope on the climber side to unlock the mechanism to continue feeding rope, other wise our mind is trained to press on the cam...
Great point when it comes to being able to take in slack immediately after giving it with the grigri, I think that’s enough to make me prefer it to the Neox
fantastic review, information dense, good pacing, etc. I agree with your conclusion as well, if they can engineer that speed lock somehow they'd have the most ubiquitous sport climbing belay device ever (again lol)
Hi :) Thenks for new video and review of new belaying device. I will stay in my revo experience, it runs completly smooth and lock each time in "no braking hand" situation. Only the one disadvatage of revo is lowering partner - it is soooo smooooooth that I'm not able to lover my partner smooth.
Great video, thanks for the detailed test! Would love to see a video like this on the Revo. I quite like mine for single pitch lead belay. A bit heavy for multi pitch though.
Fantastic work as always. A good review should identify weaknesses in a device. The manufacturer will identify the strengths. Petzl is to be respected for their openness to criticism. Hard is Easy is a fantastic resource thankyou.
4:50 - I work at a climbing gym where the GriGri is banned and you can only use tube style devices (most commonly regular tubes or assisted breaking ones like the Smart I/II or Rama) because there are just too many accidents caused by improper usage. I had to explain this so many times to experienced GriGri users and even the owner who made these rules know that it's one of the safest devices, but people just keep misusing it.
That's interesting.... Here in Norway, non-assisting tube style devices were banned in commercial climbing halls, for the same reason; people kept mis-using them.
That rule is in my opinion not very smart because misusing a Grigri you basically get the safety of a non assisted device. So yeah, people do all kinds of belaying errors everyday but non assisted braking devices just don‘t catch any falls on their own.
@@AmaniRafiki To be fair, it is very easy to spot a tube misuse from afar, while the most common GriGri misuse issues are not. People also inherently trust the device and rely on it saving your climber mostly on its own. Compare that to the easily tangible "if you hold the rope below the device, you are good" logic of assisted tubers that most people use here, it's easy to see why there are so many more accidents with the actually safer device (and almost everyone at the gym agrees with that)
I think the safety concerns of the grigri arise from the language used to teach the technique. It isn't enough to "hold" the rope in the gaswerk position. Your hand MUST be squeezing the rope a bit to ensure there is enough friction in the system to engage the cam. And even if that's how the method is taught you cannot ensure proper technique from a distance making it a liability.
A friend of mine was sent a neox to demo and I used it. Absolutely, the device is not for me. I no longer felt relaxed while belaying and I felt my participation had to be a lot more active while belaying my partner on lead and if they then called for a take. Now would this experience change over time with practice using the device, maybe. However, I absolutely see a purpose for this with my friends who are stubbornly continuing to use an ATC because they don't like how the Gri gri feeds and find holding the device then putting their thumb on the trigger brake lever is a pain in the ass. Great video, thank you
UPDATES:
1st. I noticed that Clicking is highly dependant on Rope stiffness (and probably thickness). Had a chance to belay with some soft ropes where Clicking was very very minimal.
2nd Response from Petzl:
"Regarding the thumb technique, which does not appear in the NEOX instructions:
This technique is possible and can be used with exactly the same precautions as those given for the GRIGRI.
We didn't want to show this in the NEOX instructions because it isn't necessary for belaying with the NEOX.
In addition, this technique is less pleasant to use than with the GRIGRI because the facets of the NEOX wheel generate more rope friction.
Clicks:
We have published a technical tip explaining why this noise occurs:
www.petzl.com/GB/en/Sport/Normal-sound-of-the-NEOX-when-taking-up-slack?ProductName=NEOX
So far, we have not found a simple, robust design to eliminate this click noise.
Finally, as you may have noticed, the principle of the NEOX is different from the REVO in that it is not triggered by the speed of rotation of the wheel, but requires an initial effort to engage the lock - a very small effort from the hand on the braking side"
"Finally, as you may have noticed, the principle of the NEOX is different from the REVO in that it is not triggered by the speed of rotation of the wheel, but requires an initial effort to engage the lock - a very small effort from the hand on the braking side"
I am really new to rope climbing, I've been bouldering for a few months, but rope climbing I did yesterday for the first time, so I hope this is not a dumb question, but .. wouldn't doing it by speed be safer?
@@thelogan4641 Speed based safety features only ensure that the device will lock if you don't hold the brake side of the rope, which doesn't apply to 99% of climbing scenarios. The Revo is basically a fancy tube with a rope release safety, not an assisted braking device. The neox/grigri will lock as long as you hold the brake side of the rope and the climber's side is weighted, meaning it'll hold a climber with virutally no effort from the belayer. They are two very different safety feature styles.
@@elouanhildgen-poirier5346 I've seen a bunch more videos and I kinda get the idea, I am thinking it might not be a bad idea as a backup feature inside the belaying device, but I also get why it isn't needed and seen some videos with the issues with them too, like with friction it can take some time (distance) to reach 4m/s
Such an unbiased video is really precious, leaving climbers the real power (through knowledge and not marketing) to decide whether or not to choose this device. Contratulations to Petzl as well to leave you the freedom to make an honest and scientific video, that should be appreciated as well.
It probably wasn’t the plan to get a „critical“ review.
it's a bit biased here. you can notice the focus is on a way to use it which is even not perfectly safe with a Grigri - a good thing Hardiseasy put it on light last year which as it shows a user must always pay attention to the climber to be able to grab the rope instantly. In this video he considers it is not super convenient to use it properly, that is to say to feed slack as with an ATC (he says less convenient as the belay device moves, and as it is little harder to take someone). This shoud not be a subject. Priority is not a little less confort to take slack quickly (and even this is really ok with Neox), priority is to have a device which is more safe. And that is the case with the Neox. The fact you always keep the rope in the hand is the fact. I also use it since 5 month and I would definitely advise it to every climber with little experience. It is super safe. And also really good with fat or tough gym ropes. Nevertheless I can understand your point of less convenient and noise issue but only for people who work hard routes and need to be taken a lot. Grigri is more confortable here.
In my opinion safety is not the only priority for a climber who spends hours and hours at the crag; priorities should be as well the cost (that is almost double than the grigri), the maneuverability (the same), noise (worse)...in general the question is: "is it worthy?" Because if you tell me it's easier for beginners i answer you that beginners should rather take courses to learn how devices actually work instead of not bothering buying an "easier" device. 😊
@@nichope9 I have seen pro climbers or guides letting their climbers fall on the ground. A moment of distraction linked with a sudden fall may always happen. Some belay devices will always be safer than others.
don't get me wrong, i totally agree with you, i just don't see this difference in safety between neox and grigri.
To recap : the new grigri is not called grigri, but it's the first to make "gri gri" sounds 😂.
Jokes aside, thanks for the great quality content. Awesome as always. I learn something every time.
Should the new device be called a "kri kri"?
It's strange here the focus is on a way to use it which is even not perfectly safe with a Grigri - as Hardiseasy put it on light last year which was good to show that a user must always pay attention to the climber to be able to grab the rope instantly. In this video you consider it is not super convenient to use it properly, that is to say to feed slack as with an ATC (less convenient as the belay device moves, and as it is little harder to take someone). This shoud not be a subject. Priority is not a little less confort to take slack quickly (and even this is really ok with Neox), priority is to have a device which is more safe. And that is the case with the Neox. The fact you always keep the rope in the hand is the fact. I also use it since 5 month and I would definitely advise it to every climber with little experience. It is super safe. And also really good with fat or tough gym ropes. Nevertheless I can understand your point of less convenient and noise issue but only for people who work hard routes and need to be taken a lot. Grigri is more confortable here.
It's a Grigri but they wanted to squeeze one more patent out of the same rope locking mechanism... 💰
Hahah amazing comment😂
Tubular device lover here, I've been using the neox for a couple sessions now and I'm loving it, it feels like a tubular which I like, but the key thing is that I can keep my climber up with very little force on the brake strand, that was the only thing annoying me about tubular devices, that holding a climber up would take a fair bit of effort compared to a grigri
Yea coming from a Tube, Neox is fantastic
That's why I love my megajul and jul2! I don't have to work as hard and I still have the smooth feed.
As someone who learned belaying with a tube, the Revo is still unbeatable for me. Catches soft as a tuber, no jumping required, but with the added benefit of not letting people fall to their death if you mess up.
I think the Neox is trying to solve a problem that does not really exist. While I prefer the Revo when I will likely have to catch a fall, I still prefer the Grigri for the warmup stuff. Stand there, thumbs down, pay out slack and that's it. No locking up with the 9.6-9.8 ropes we are typically using for sports climbing. I can't really see why people complain so much about the Grigri catching
@@foobar9220 As someone who tried the revo after some time with the gri gri, I enjoyed the smooth tube-like rope feeding but holding a climber at "take" position still requires a noticeable amount of force compared to gri gri which is kind of a bummer. And locking the device manually while the climber is already in this position is somewhat possible but not easy/comfortable
@@ArielBiMBa Yes, that is the biggest drawback. Although I found, it is quite possible to lock off the climbers strand with the left hand and lock the Revo with the right hand.
Yesterday one belayer of our handicapped climbing group used the Neox for the first time. By far the best belaying device for him. Thanks Petzl
Could you give some more info on why? I'm really interested in accessible design!
@@brendandor would maybe work great for hand amputees
Thanks Ben for the honest and “scientific” reviews. They help many people climb more safely.
They should have named it the KriKri
😂
You're honestly the goat, amazing work
By far far far far the best video available on this Neox case!
I'm an "if it ain't broke don't fix it" kinda guy. My only worry is more moving parts provide for more points of failure. Time will tell. Great video! 👍🏽
It’s made by Petzl and not by Edelrid! Therefore I don’t think much about failure. E.g. if I can remember correctly, the tryout started last autumn.
P.s. if you touch the Neox and the pinch, only one device feels like it’s a proper developed and lasting one
for not talking about the dirt going inside the wheel. I am very curious of how it behaves in powdery conditions
@@Martin-q2x8d whats your comparisn with Edelrid based on? I'm just curious.
Thanks a lot... I saw some people trying the Neon last week indoors and there was some kind of uncertainty if it's as safe as the GriGri ... so they tested it by falling and two people securing the fall... everything worked out just fine, but I got the impression as if some doubts if it's as good as the GriGri remained ... I really appreciate all the effort your putting into your videos and into climbers security! :)
Well the neox passed the EN 15151-1 certification just like the Grigri and the Revo. So it should be able to stop a factor 2 fall without hands.
@@boerenkoolmetworst In the end it's a lot of their personal feeling of safety ....
@@boerenkoolmetworst thats not what en 1515-1 says though see here avs.edelrid.com/images/attribut/EN_15151-1.pdf
@@marcus_diy correct, but it is the CE test requirement to pass the certification.
Edit: found the test requirements to pass the certification, if you’re interested avs.edelrid.com/images/attribut/EN_15151-1.pdf
@@marcus_diy not really because there are 2 types of CE certification for belay devices in the EU. It’s either EN 15151-2 and EN 15151-1. EN15151-2 does not have any requirements for braking force and contains all the tube style devices. EN 15151-1 does have a braking force requirement to pass and has been only passed by devices as Grigri, Revo, Eddy and now the Neox.
With my original remark I’m just saying that the Neox is in the same certification category as the Grigri, so both are able to catch a factor 2 fall with an 80kg weight at 100cm above the belay device without holding the rope and a max of 150cm rope slippage.
Been waiting for this. ❤
I would love to see a comparison to the edelrid pinch and which one you would prefer. But as always great Video!
Yea I'm going to get one, but to make a comparison I'll need to use it for some time first, I don't like putting "unboxing" videos :DDD
Mee too! Using the pinch severel weeks now and I like it.
Speaking about the pinch, I think the grigri is a more fair comparison than the neox, as the working principle is the same.
That said, I like the pinch more than the grigri because I can attach it at the harness, and that makes it way more comfortable
@@HardIsEasy Thank you. I don't climb at all, but your content is always super interesting (as is How Not 2's). I appreciate your dedication to using the devices first, rather than "first impressions".
Not sure why brake assisted tube devices (like Smart, Mega jul, Pilot, etc..) aren't more popular. To me they're the perfect balance of smoothly feeding rope and safety. Add in low cost and light weight and they're ideal devices imho.
I have the pilot and love it for that reason. People I teach like it too. It's so much like an ATC while having a little added safety and comfort. AND there's no moving parts! I remember the discussion around the climb forums about the Pilot basically being "if your life depends on it, then just spend the extra cash for the Gri Gri." Nice to see that piece of 'wisdom' is starting to become outdated. They're both proven devices. Plus having those financially accessible devices on the market are a good thing. More assisted braking at the crag saves lives.
because the gri gri is better and safer
@@leolandi3852Nope and nope
I'm a user of both a Grigri and a Mega Jul.
Let me clarify.
Taking rope is harder and clumsier with mega jul. The thicker the rope, the harder it is. Same goes for giving slack. Way harder with a thicker and dirtier rope.
Thinner ropes (
I've never gotten the hang of the grigri method, to be fair, i haven't tried either. That said, my go-to lead belay device for the past years has been the Revo. Now with the Neox i have a new favorite, mainly because of the ease of holding a climber who's projecting. I did notice that it is abit 'jerky' as the climber is about to start climbing again after a fall or hang, it needs to "click" out before the wheel starts spinning again, but i didn't notice it when lowering a climber. So far i am impressed. this is the "grigri" for those of use who never got the hang of using a grigri.
please release the stats on how many left the video at 3:08
thanks for this very informative video, again.
Haha ok :D let's collect some data first :D
I should have because I never switched to grigri from reverso, but I didn't :/
@@BigToinE976 I never switched to a Reverso from hip belay, so I don't even know why I'm watching this.
@@Aaron-xq6hv 😂
here's an answer that won't change with time: zero
I'm exactly one of the belayers which you described at 2:50. I bought a Neox and I'm very happy with it! :-) Also, when I belay with a cam-style device (before the Neox I used regularly both a GriGri and a Beal Birdie), I usually don't have issues with the device "bouncing around," because I attach it with a smaller carabiner that keeps the device closer to my body.
Waited for this by you Ben. Thanks for this!
Thank you for this video. Still a Cinch fan, and other belay devices other than Gri Gri. As with all complicated belay devices they are considered assisted braking and not auto braking for a reason. Proper belay technique is paramount to poor belay techniques and attentiveness to holding the brake end of the rope. The accidents will keep on happening until this is addressed and the NEOX has done this. But then again, there are other more simpler devices that already provide smooth belay with assisted braking features.
I gotta stick with the GRI GRI, fewer moving parts, tried true and tested. Sometimes simplicity is best. Thanks for the video
ATC is more simplicity
I think the clicking could serve a useful purpose of giving the belayer audible and tactile feedback that they need to pay attention and mind the brake side of the rope. So while it does rely on the belayer more than the GriGri, it still does better than an ATC because it does auto lock in some scenarios and alerts the belayer in others
what I recognized with my NEOX (climbing a 9.8mm rope) that when you hold the rope in the Gaswerk methode BUT you don't push the cam down with the thumb, the rope runs smoothly through the device. No clicking or blocking.
nice work. Even after 35 years of climbing, I watch your videos because you really do a great job going over devices and techniques. keep on clicking! PS. I started belaying around the hip with hemp rope so as long as it isn’t a pulley, any belay device works fine as long as it adds a little friction.
Appreciate the honest review. I'm sticking with good ol grigri
So, almost smooth and safe like an assisted-tuber style device, more expensive than a Grigri. I think my Mammut Smart works better and costs 1/3 of the Neox. I don't understeand why advanced belayers and climbers are so Grigri oriented (and I bought a Grigri as first belay device and used for 2/3 years).
Thank you for your review, now I'm waiting something about the Edelrid Pinch!
As someone that works in the industry in the UK, we are pretty much forced into using a Grigri, I've always preferred other devices, both assisted and non assisted. I think Grigri is one of the devices that are most frequently used incorrectly and encourage incorrect technique. I'll give this new device a go but in terms of buying an expensive device the (complicated looking) alpine up is top of my list.
Yes, I was a Gri-Gri user before buying and using the Smart. Now I love the Smart so much more, using it since 2 years and never looking back!
The Neox has two friction states: (1) spinning wheel, where the rope doesn't slip and rides on bearings with rolling friction; and (2) locked wheel, where the rope slips and has sliding friction. It's the transition between these two states that both causes the clicking and the sudden drop when lowering. While this makes "learning" the friction of the Neox more difficult than Gri Gri, is this a learnable behavior (i.e. is the change in friction states predictable)? If so, then I think long term use could produce the same use expertise as with Gri Gri, albeit with a different learning curve.
Thank you very Much!! I´ve never try it, i will do it.
Your "Strange Xperiments" are really amazing for the climber comunity!
You are doing amazing work since longtime with your videos! Thanks anothertime ;)
Keep On Climbing!!
PuuPuuu!!
Great testing giving us very helpfull information, also you are fun to watch with great humor, easy going with a laid back demeanor, and understandable explanations to your crazy experiments! Thnx from a noob-to-climbing, and geek =)
Hey Ben!
As a frenchy frog myself i can assure you there is absolutely no region in France, even in the most remoted ones, where someone would pronounce it "Niiouuuu" 😂
Great and interesting video as always! Grigri forever. ❤
Haha... Well I guess chamonix... Chamoniii kinda got me there :)))))
Most honest NEOX video ! Will stay with my trustry grigri
Thanks for the informative video. I still use my Grigri the old way not holding on to it but the rope. I think I'll just stay with what works for now.
Used one today. It pays out so easily on an old 10mm rope that I had to double check my rope was in the device. Far smoother than an ATC, it's remarkable.
Issues: lowering the climber requires more strength than the grigri on the lever and its slower as well. It also causes more friction to the breaking hand, so much so that I wanted to wear a belay glove.
Warning ⚠️ the wheel gets HOT after lowering a climber 12.5m. I was surprised how hot. Based on this I would strongly advise you don't absail on this device. Use it solely for single pitch sports belaying.
Exceptional review, thanks for putting time into this creation!
This is a honest impression video. I always want to watch such kind of videos. thanks.
I love this channel Man. Knowledge You are giving away for free is out of this world ! Thank You Sir
Great video. First one adressing the questions i had about it
Thanks for the detailed honest review and your great content in general. 👍
Since i really enjoy pushing down the cam with the Neox in certain situations where i want to give a lot of slack very quickly i wrote to Petzl-Germany.
Long story short:
There is no safety concern using the correct "Gaswerk"-method with the Neox.
Here the full response from Petzl - Germany - Aftersales:
Die Gaswerkmethode kann mit genau den gleichen Vorsichtsmaßnahmen wie beim GRIGRI angewendet werden.
Wir haben dies nicht in die NEOX-Anleitung aufgenommen, da es zum Sichern mit dem NEOX nicht notwendig ist.
Wenn Sie gewohnt sind, mit dem GRIGRI und der Gaswerkmethode zu sichern, braucht es erfahrungsgemäß etwas Umgewöhnung beim Sichern mit dem NEOX das Seil gleichzeitig mit der Bremshand in das Gerät einzuführen, während die Führungshand Seil herauszieht (wie bei der Tuber-Sicherung).
My overall takeaway: Both are good, both are safe. They have slightly different strengths, so while the Neox is not an across-the-board upgrade, there are reasons some people would prefer it. Since I already have a GriGri, I don't think I'll be running out to buy a Neox, unless I get the chance to try one and love it.
Great video as always. Good tests and explanations.
It would be good to see a video like this seeing how different belaying from the top is as well. Nice work!
A crossover from a neox and a edelrid pinch with the possibility to fix the device directly in the belay loop would be better. Combine it with a smallish belay loop and belaying would be mch more comfortable.
“Always lock, and no clicky sound, and maybe improve the ergonomics that would be the ideal belay device”
Love this video and the answer is the Trango Vergo. All the criteria above is met and tested by Hard is Easy.
Clicky sound wil damage the device quick
Tried it out for the first time yesterday, instantly fell in love with it despite not getting along with the regular grigri... The pulley system makes giving slack faster than a tube, which is an insane feeling.
Very nice Video, have you by any Chance a Video for the Edelrid Pinch planed?
Don't have time for Brilliant while attempting brilliance and working on my climbing, but wanted to mention that your channel rocks, because it does, and for the algorithm heck. Cheers mate, Daniel
Been using the Neox for about a month now and I don't touch the grigri very often anymore. The clicking is kind of annoying but it doesn't bother me much. For the guiding work I do I find the reduced friction really nice for belaying from above and for belaying top-ropes. Less work on the shoulders and elbows. It's also been nice for having clients belay me without needing to teach the grigri thumb block for feeding rope to me.
In my personal climbing I've found I revert back to the normal grigri style of feeding rope like you've mentioned, because of the comfort. I've also found if I'm not paying attention well and my leader is clipping, the fast attempt to feed slack still locks the Neox and I short the leader. The normal grigri belay keeps me from doing that.
If I'm doing any kind of stuff off a fixed line I opt for the grigri.
I love these videos. I really appreciate the deep dive and slow careful pacing of what you say and show. It’s so much better than these fast jump cuts and super fast yelling people do in videos now to appease the algorithm.
Full time instructor, & I teach a no thumb method on GRIGRI. It’s not as ‘comfortable’ AT FIRST but it reduces risk & becomes really easy to avoid camming with a little practice!
I just ordered the Neox & Edelrid Pinch - eager to compare to my GRIGRI!
My favorite device cannot be any Petzel device just because of the cost. In my opinion, the best safety/functionality-to-cost ratio is the mammut smart, but if we add the bonus of comfort I would say bd pilot is close winner. I still chose the smart.
your comment is just trolling, isn't it?
Go on! Strange experiments always
Thanks for this great video 👍
It also would be very nice if you could test the Edelrid Pinch.
What weight was used in a no hand situation in minute 7?🤔 Although the speed of falling climber would be thereotically same, I suspect, the tension in the rope would depend on the falling climber's weight and it could potentially affect how quickly the caming mechanism engages.
You have the best informational climbing safety content on TH-cam, equal or better than HowNOT2. Thanks for helping us climb safer.
To your point about the Neox flopping around while belaying, couldn't you just hold onto the folded metal ridge without using the thumb to hold down the cam?
Oooh this is a great point. That also gets rid of the issue of preparing to give slack and then needing to take. As someone using a tubular device, the biggest downside to me is the little jerk when you start to lower from a hanging position. And the click clack 😂
Great idea.
What I do, I lift the belay device with my right thumb. So I am not holding it but merely lifting it. Works great for me to get rid of this „flopping around“.
Also, the flopping around is greatly reduced (for me, practically eliminated) if you attach the device to your harness with a smaller carabiner.
@@DavideFossati Good point. I'll try that as well.
This looks like a fantastic device, which solves one of the main issues I've had with the grigri - paying out slack. Unfortunately it does come at the cost of complexity. Tubers, assisted locking tubers and the grigri were all simple enough that I could see how wear would affect the device, and reason about how they could fail. This meant I could be happy that I was confident they would fail-safe in the event of wear on the system. I don't yet know enough about the operation of the neox to be able to say the same. The number of moving parts has significantly increased, so it's much harder to say how wear will affect the device. I'm sure the engineers behind this have given it a lot of thought, but the more complex the device, the higher the chance that a failure mode might slip through, and there will be some obscure way in which it could fail. When the part in question is a belay device, for me personally, I have to be 100% certain that it will fail-safe after many years of use and wear
Another great, unbiased video. Thanks for showing the pros and cons of these devices so we can all making informed decisions.
great video as always, i learnt so much from you, your channel is absolutely amazing
Best review! I think I'll just stick to the gri gri and put more reps into giving out slack as I'm new to lead belaying.
It sounds like you are looking for the Mad Rock Safeguard or Lifeguard device. Slides smoothly, makes no click, has auto-stop and works best with one hand on the feed, but not required for safety.
What I love about real climbers, always here to help each other improve no mater what.
Thank you for being a real climber and thank you Petzl, for giving us another tool to keep us all climbing safe! Another tool in the tool box.
Awesome video as always. I doubt that any tubular style fan really stopped the video at 3' 😅. It def worths watching it 'till the end
Thanks for another great vid, Ben.
Saw a Neox at the crag three days ago. Didn't see the big deal. Using Mammut Smart(er) now and love it. Planning to get a Trango Vergo, after trying in my gym, as I think giving slack is easier, and 'oops' no hands lock-up is higher-p. Great vids - keep it up!
This thing is kind of interesting, if only I didn’t like my regular grigri so much. I’m going to give it a year…great video!
Thank you!
Wow, this channel just keeps producing superb analyses.
This was very interesting, thanks! I would also be really interested to see how you think things like the Matik or especially the Pinch compare and how they do in your tests!
I will never not love the Edelrid Mega Jul! Simpler, safer, easier, more versatile, lighter, cheaper. It's an easy choice.
If you like the mega, try the giga jul! Love it in comparison. Both are so underrated.
@@dylan-howell How does the Giga jul perform in giving slack? IMO the mega jul is sometimes not as smooth as the ATC, e.g.
@@gebhardio The Jul models are all very similar to each other on giving slack. Not as smooth as a ATC, but much smoother than a Grigri. I find they are also smoother than a Grigri when lowering. I'm a long time user of all three types, and my Jul^2 favorite.
Jul2 is much better than mega jul.
@@xioixjaja997 Not for outdoor climbing :)
thanks for your videos. its good to see you again
I was searching for a camming device and after reviewing your testing of various devices, I decided to go with a trango vergo. I'm really liking it so far, and I think as a lead belay device it seems to be doing everything you're looking for besides feeding slack like the revo. I don't feel like the neox is solving the equation for me, but it's a super neat design.
Perfect move from Petzl and really appreciate the balls to go for an unbiased review.
On my very personal opinion, the best device is always the safest one. I can understand the purpose of Neox, but if we want to be real, situations where the brake hand is needed by the belayer for other urgencies happen all the time. Be it for a falling rock, stomping on the rocks on the ground or any external "panic" situation where your hand is not holding the brake, you want your device to help you. The brake hand, even if it is a rule, it is also dictated by circumstances, and "safety" tools have to take into account them aswell. I don't really need to give slack faster knowing that a human mistake can kill somebody
I wouldnt want to be belayed by someone who cant really control his belayhand/reflexes.
Please see his masterclass belay videos: If you have the choice between pooping your pants and letting go of the rope with your brake hand...
@@nolanarcher5123 I already watched all his videos. I also got to meet him personally, together with Hana Banana (who lives 2 hours from my place), and I absolutely appreciate his job. Thing is, we don't control circumstances. You can predict as many scenarios as you want, you will always encounter unexpected situations, and I want my belaying device to help me when those happen. A falling rock will always be the best example. And what about wild animals? And what if the belayer faints, or feels brutally sick all of a sudden? Or the thin path where the belayer is standing gives away? I could go on for all the day. You have no control over your body instinct reactions, nor about what happens to you. Everybody agrees about holding the rope with the brake hand, this is undiscussed, but we have to be real: Grigri is safer. Nothing else to be said
Thanks for sharing your opinion and of course for the time, energy and ideas testing equipment. I basically agree with everything except of making it more ergonomic. On my eyes less ergonomic is better on that way people will grab it less and will focus on keep the rope on the hand
the neox strikes me as existing for 2 reasons for climbers: first, to eliminate the need to hold the cam when giving slack, because while it's proven to be safe enough, you _are_ still overriding a safety mechanism when you do that. secondly, it's a cool new innovation that might lead to new emergent techniques, just like the grigri did. petzl might have some ideas internally that they need to test, or they might be keeping an eye on the community to see if there's any new techniques emerging that can make the device more appealing.
Thanks for the video, ben!
Thank you very much for this VERY interesting Video.
Learned something new.
Mine is arriving this week.
Best wishes,
Nobbby
Thanks Ben; always very instructive and detailed video experience!
I was just waiting for replacing my lovely GriGri with Neox, beacuse i give slack like it shoudl be... maybe I would wait some time for having those improvements like you said
Of all the videos on the Neox this is the ONLY one I’ve been waiting to see
For me, it’s a great crossover between the Revo and the Gri Gri. Super smooth rope feeding of the Revo combined with the cam locking action of the Gri Gri.
Sure, the clicky sounds are a bit unfortunate, but I gladly live with them because I don’t have to forcefully hold the rope shut when my climber wants to sit/rest like with the Revo.
I disagree. Petzl missed a big chance there. They should have made the wheel with the same failsafe (4m/s?) with no hands on the device like the Revo. That would have been great. The Neo in my opinion is pretty unnecessary as it is.
what about all the other people at the crag that have to listen to it aswell? its like those damn drones
No, the Revo is very very safe, the Grigri is very safe, but the Neox is much less safe than the Grigri.
A very high quality video as every time ! an aspect which is not covered and which for me is the main interest of the NEOX is the difference in fluidity with the Grigri depending on the rope diameter. The upgrade is not very significant for new small diameter ropes but the belaying is much smoother with large diameter ropes, especially if they are a little old and stiff.
Maybe anthore video about this theme ?
Thanx a lot for your work !
Thanks!
Thank you a lot as well!
Great video as always, congrats Ben. I think they are both really safe devices, it's about preference which one do you choose, as long as you ALWAYS hold the break side of the rope
Hi Ben!
Today I used it for the first time at the crag and I've found that just resting de Neox on the right hand, without pressing on the cam worked great, I had the chance to catch falls by just closing my hand as with the Grigri and it lets you take slack back very fast from that point.
I think this would be my preferred way to belay my climber.
Definitely will stick to my previous grigris to tope rope ppl.
I've also found that if you pull towards the chains to clean the route, the cam and wheels unlock pretty easy... Basically any movement while climbing that unloads the Neox will have the same thing happening.
Also found that it's way easier to just pull on the rope on the climber side to unlock the mechanism to continue feeding rope, other wise our mind is trained to press on the cam...
Great point when it comes to being able to take in slack immediately after giving it with the grigri, I think that’s enough to make me prefer it to the Neox
As I said, you're the best! Great vídeo!
fantastic review, information dense, good pacing, etc. I agree with your conclusion as well, if they can engineer that speed lock somehow they'd have the most ubiquitous sport climbing belay device ever (again lol)
Thanks ben for your honorable work as always 🙏
Man you're so good on making these "geeky" tests, kudos and thanks for the info!
Great work, thanks! Do you plan to test the Edelrid Pinch?
Hi :) Thenks for new video and review of new belaying device. I will stay in my revo experience, it runs completly smooth and lock each time in "no braking hand" situation. Only the one disadvatage of revo is lowering partner - it is soooo smooooooth that I'm not able to lover my partner smooth.
Great video, thanks for the detailed test! Would love to see a video like this on the Revo. I quite like mine for single pitch lead belay. A bit heavy for multi pitch though.
Thanks for yet another great review.
Fantastic work as always. A good review should identify weaknesses in a device. The manufacturer will identify the strengths. Petzl is to be respected for their openness to criticism. Hard is Easy is a fantastic resource thankyou.
Thanks for your opinion on this new device. It was really helpful and now I know I don't need this in my life.
4:50 - I work at a climbing gym where the GriGri is banned and you can only use tube style devices (most commonly regular tubes or assisted breaking ones like the Smart I/II or Rama) because there are just too many accidents caused by improper usage. I had to explain this so many times to experienced GriGri users and even the owner who made these rules know that it's one of the safest devices, but people just keep misusing it.
That's interesting.... Here in Norway, non-assisting tube style devices were banned in commercial climbing halls, for the same reason; people kept mis-using them.
That rule is in my opinion not very smart because misusing a Grigri you basically get the safety of a non assisted device. So yeah, people do all kinds of belaying errors everyday but non assisted braking devices just don‘t catch any falls on their own.
@@AmaniRafiki To be fair, it is very easy to spot a tube misuse from afar, while the most common GriGri misuse issues are not. People also inherently trust the device and rely on it saving your climber mostly on its own. Compare that to the easily tangible "if you hold the rope below the device, you are good" logic of assisted tubers that most people use here, it's easy to see why there are so many more accidents with the actually safer device (and almost everyone at the gym agrees with that)
I think the safety concerns of the grigri arise from the language used to teach the technique. It isn't enough to "hold" the rope in the gaswerk position. Your hand MUST be squeezing the rope a bit to ensure there is enough friction in the system to engage the cam. And even if that's how the method is taught you cannot ensure proper technique from a distance making it a liability.
I don't like overriding the grigri cam & looking forward to the neox on order so I can use traditional belay technique.
I'm like you. And I love my new Neox 🙂
@@DavideFossati Happy to hear it! Mine should arrive early July.
Just I buy ones yesterdey! I was a little scared about, Thanks for your video :)
Haha que fregon le contestaste a Petzl con "tus experimentos raros" hahaha, buen trabajo 🔥
A friend of mine was sent a neox to demo and I used it. Absolutely, the device is not for me. I no longer felt relaxed while belaying and I felt my participation had to be a lot more active while belaying my partner on lead and if they then called for a take. Now would this experience change over time with practice using the device, maybe.
However, I absolutely see a purpose for this with my friends who are stubbornly continuing to use an ATC because they don't like how the Gri gri feeds and find holding the device then putting their thumb on the trigger brake lever is a pain in the ass.
Great video, thank you
Danke!
Thank you für your videos. Great work!:)