I’ve left carabiners at anchors. My attitude is it’s a donation to the cause. $5 isn’t a big deal and someone else gets to carry a bail ‘biner for their safety. Worth the price IMO.
I will not trust myself with this... I'd much rather leave a 7 euro locking carabiner up there, than risk mixing up the strands of my rope and having my rope stuck at the top.
The new setup looks way more user friendly than the old one. You can tell you designed it with all the previous testing in mind. I'm not a climber but these videos satisfy my curiosity for rigging and how forces act in the real world, also who doesn't love breaking stuff.
0:53: If you're lowering off of that one bolt and collecting your gear below and that bolt blows you're going to hit the deck. That last step before lowering would be to tie a prusik from your harness to the lowering side of the rope. That way if that bolt does blow, the prusik will bite into the rope and make up for the all of the slack above the climber. Not only will this prevent you from hitting the deck, but also allow you to trolley the rope down enabling you to collect your gear easier than without it (especially for overhung routes).
@jordanjohnson6288 Can you please elaborate on how a prusik would prevent the deck if the bolt I’m lowering off of blows? I understand the use of prusik as a third hand while rappelling, and I always use a third hand for better control on my rappelling.. But I’m not able imagine how that can prevent the fall if the bolt itself blows..
@tdpandya007 the prussik would "short-cut" the big loop of rope between you and next quickdraw below you, so that you get caught by it as if it was a lead fall. This is a standard technique to avoid getting down on a single point.
I like that Bobby said yes it works but I would only do it if I dropped all my equipment and only had a rope and a sling. Then Ryan said don't risk your life for a carabineer
You don't necessarily have had to drop something. bailing from the 8th pitch on a multipitch takes a lot of gear. The less you leave the more likely you are to actually get to the ground. My multipitch instructor told me that they had to bail on a really long norweigan multipitch. They left the entire $1200 trad rack on the way down and still had to rappel from some pretty sketchy setups.
I've used this method many times... when there is NOT a bolt. That's the best application for it. Rappelling off a small plate, chicken-head, or tree, this system is the best. Even better, with some creative thinking, you'll use 2 carabiner (one on each end of the sling) to eliminate the rope on sling friction. There's still a lot that can go wrong, so pay attention! But you can get off a trad climb, or down a canyon, without leaving anything behind.
Texas rope trick is my favorite method of rapping off of large trees where the height and length of rope allows it, more convenient and foolproof than macrome hitch
I have a dedicated tree anchor, webbing and two sizes of rap rings, replaces the tag line with a stopper knot that catches the small ring. But I essentially use this technique as my default tree anchor.
I once used the TRT to rappel off a trad route. Leaving trad gear behind is far more financially difficult than leaving a single biner on a sport route. I looped a nylon strand around a chimney-wedged boulder and was able to (barely) reach the ground with all my gear in hand. Also if you sport climbers don’t want to leave a locking biner, but you want the security of one, you can always use some tape from your fingers to keep a wire gate closed.
Great demonstration of that technique. Folks should (especially beginners) actually try their equipment in a safe scenario like yours as I personally found that I had much more confidence in the equipment after demonstrating to myself that no, it's not going to break and is in fact much stronger than you thought it would be. Excellent note about the kink / bend where it hangs on the point and the potential for a sharp edge there that could abrade the sling. As always: don't bet your life on a worn-out point, sling, hook or carabiner - they are way cheaper to replace than hospital visits and surgeries. Excellent Video!
I make it a point to know alternative ways to replace equipment. And I’ve had to use a couple on more than a few occasions. When I’m arena rigging, I use a short sling klemheist combined with a simple sheave to make a progress capture system. Far cheaper than a Petzl Traxxion. Ive also had to use a bachman’s knot as a makeshift ascender, and a munter hitch to rappel. This one is new to me, add another trick to the bag. Knowing how a piece of equipment works and ways to replace it in a pinch is invaluable.
There's another way the Texas rope trick can get stuck. If the bolt has a long stud, when you pull the third strand, the sling can loop up over the stud and then the whole thing is fixed. Happened the first (and only time) I tried this.
Damn, same thing happened to me, and also on the first time i tried it for real on a multi-pitch route. I had to climb back again on the other end of the rope to get the sling unstuck, and ended up sending that f***ing next pitch because there no way in hell i would try this trick again. Good way to muster up courage i guess hehe
Was i the only one completely surprised by Ryan showing up? I totally thought this was on Bobby's channel and figured it would be 6 months to a year before getting a break test 😂
The bolt doesn't hurt the sling, been using the same sling for years, no appreciable wear. But tie to the bartack side of the sling. And just make sure that when you start pulling the rope at the bottom, that the one tail end on the ground is the one that starts floating away from yourself.
Just to add to this: when we talk about not weighting soft goods over sharp edges, if you can't cut your thumb on it, it's not a sharp edge you need to worry about.
@@Grethko lmao I nearly died repelling over an edge that did not seem sharp because the nature of the decent required moving side to side sawing on the rope.
@@bobbypatton4903 yeah, I would say use your judgment with stuff like this. Just going over the edge may be OK, but side to side is definitely no no 😁. The biggest problem with this kind of systems is people not analyzing stuff. To me it is perfectly safe to rappel off, but some dummies will then try to top rope on this 😂🤣😂
Wow Ryan's audio in this episode sounds so much tighter than normal! I don't know if it's just because of the acoustics of the room but I think it's a huge improvement.
@@Frecky123 it definitely sounds less natural, less like you're in the room with him. I personally feel it sounds more professional and is easier on the ears, especially with headphones, but I can see how you could disagree
It sounds dubbed and i don't like it. At 8:20 you can hear a lot more of the room, maybe he records voice separately with lav mic, which makes it sound like that. Or maybe it is some overdone effect in post.
@@JGnLAU8OAWF6 at first i also thought the audio was tons better but repeating the video a couple times it feels like the cutoff is a tiny bit too early making the silence "off". I love that the production of these videos is constantly getting better !
Actually there's one important tip that i want to share: Depending on the type of hanger that you want to use as anker its important to build the setup in a way that the side of the sling to which the retraction rope is tied is the one with the bolt (and best this is also the side with the hard sling connection part). With the opposite setup I've had a situation where the sling got stuck because it was catching the bolt nut. Impossible to safe and much to sketchy to climb up the rope again. Its not too unlikely that this happens
Great trick that I have used way back when I had to bail of some routes. I would consider this as another tool in the toolbox and if use properly it should be supergood enough ;-)
I use a piece of webbing with a overhand on each side. Use it to tie a macrome (not sure if I spelled that right) then tie my rope to the webbing. No damage to my gear, and I leave nothing behind.
I remember someone telling me that ropes cut slings years ago back in Newfoundland. I didn't believe them. So we set up the test with me on one side and them on the other. We cut the slang in like 2 or 3 goes back and forth. It was so fast that neither of us expected it and we both fell flat on our bums. Good Times!
I started using a prusik with a kevlar core. I make a prusik knot on the strand I want to pull down then instead of clipping the prusik to a carabiner I run it through the hanger and pull the other strand of the rope through that loop. Just as bomber as a carabiner and I don't have to leave anything.
I noticed that the noise suppression on your voice in the new lab is a bit aggressive, almost sounds like ai generated voice. You might wanna fine tune that. Great video anyhow.
Since I usually use double ropes I rather simply feed it directly through the bolt and tie of with overhand. If by any chance I see any wear in contact point I would simply tie it of a bit lower on following pitch thus isolating compromised part. This goes also to the second person to rappel as he can move the knot just before going down. Worst case scenario I loose up to a meter of my old and streched anyway rope. That being said I have never observed any significant wear in doing so ;)
I've put the rope through the hanger couple of times, still here 😁. Variation of this is to do a loop with accessory cord through the hanger and then just leave it there.
Would it not be better to tie an alpine butterfly at the halfway point on the rope and feed one tail of the rope through the bolt and then through the loop on the alpine butterfly and abseil down the length that's fed through the loop? Gives you more rope length and should still be relatively easy to retrieve. Would definitely save your rope getting stuck if somehow you managed to get your sling jammed by descending on the wrong tail. Would also eliminate any friction between the rope and sling.
It seems like it's more niche than that even "you dropped everything but a sling". There's a draw on the wall which has two carabiners plus you're rappelling at this point, not being lowered so you need a rap device which pretty much means another carabiner. I guess if somehow you just reached the bolt and don't have another draw (why?) and you can't get a clip from your belayer so there's no way you can rappel if you leave the one on your device this is the only way. But that seems even more far fetched than you dropped everything but a sling.
instead of folding Your rope 3 times. to retrieve the sling You can use a small diameter cord. You will not confuse it and it weights 3g per meter. so 60m cord will weight 180grams... and its dirt cheap :D
it also only reduces your rappel height by half your rope length rather than by two thirds, so the chances of your being able to reach the next anchor down greatly increase.
I just leave a carabiner. Probably fine to use a sling. Lots of things are probably fine but I won't add stress or risk just to save a carabiner. I figure I've recovered as many carabiners as I've left. It evens out.
so for some forward thinking, wouldn't it be safer to use paracord as the slip strand so you don't mistakenly use it as a load strand? What does 50m of 550 paracord weigh compared to 100m of 9mm anyway?
Having done this rope friction cutting demo many times, I can tell you that full body weight makes a big difference. You might only be putting 20kg of force onto the gear with your feet on the ground and just pushing down. I've mostly used rope on rope (10+mm dynamic rope), one about 1m long with a loop on each end to hold (so you can completely hang on it) and the other just a loop that is hanging from a tree. 20 secs is decent, but I've seen someone do it in 10 secs! Afterwards, the hanging loop is clearly melted through at one point and the moving rope is usually a bit melted all the way along, sometimes also through to showing core.
I don't now the english name for it but in french it's called "noeud Dufour" (Dufour knot?). It need only 2 strand of rope going down to the bottom, so can go up to half your rope length. You use one strand to rappel and the other one to start ejecting the knot (you need to alternatively pull the strand to completely detach it). If you combine that with a cleverly place sling, you can retrieve everything and never have rope on sling friction. But if not properly done, this knot can be quite unforgiving, So, to use with caution (and training).
Great new lab setup and awesome text. The voice recording in the Lab sounds almost dubbed, or like and AI. Noticed it with the last video in the new lab as well. Good luck with ironing out the kinks, certainly so much behind the scenes that makes it hard to get it just right. Thanks for all the work you do.
Can you pull test the Petzl connect/evolv adjust? Like many of us, I use them for all the obvious things, even the ones Petzl doesn't recommend and find them to be awesome but it would be sweet to see them pull or drop tested to failure.
if there's tension on it to stop it rotating through whatever it's anchored to, and you're on a super good enough foothold so you don't slip and expose the open gate to a weird crossload, then yes, it's safe. A 25kN biner with an open gate is still rated at anything from 6-10kN.
What kind of method/equipment could I carry to descend a 30-50 ft tree in an emergency situation? I'm a paraglider and want to have an emergency plan for if I land in a tree out in the wilderness and there is nobody around. Minimal gear and weight would be needed so it can fit it in my pack. I was thinking a munter hitch descent method but that's difficult to use with thin rope. I can't exactly carry 100 ft of 9mm rope in my pack. It takes up too much space. Obviously using a radio or waiting for help is the first choice. But paragliders fly in VERY remote locations and sometimes there is a 0% chance that anyone will find you if you crash in a tree so it's up to you to hike out on your own.
Have you tried The super Munter. It adds a lot of friction. I might look at taglines used for climbing. There are a number of thin ones that are also quite abrasion resistant
probably look at type iv paracord (750lb-950lb tensile strength) or Titan XT Survivorcord (1000lb tensile strength, also has utility cores) and use it to twinrope your way down. I wouldn't use the same rope twice in that scenario though.
When lowering of a single carabiner connect your harness belay loop to the belayer side of a rope. This way if a top anchor fails you won't fall too long.
Does pulling the rappel rope melt the sling? If it does better to just leave it. Anyway I have a number of worn bail biners (not that worn )that I carry for just this situation.
Love the TRT. I prefer doubling the sling, then adding a knot on the pull side. Also I do use a carabiner to connect the pull end. Yes it whips down faster, but helps me visually keep things separated.
Down climbing you mean? I had to do it on a multi pitch where my follower was unable to get up the first pitch, and unwilling to let me pull them up since we were having a hard time communicating due to wind noise I couldnt talk them through any of the techniques to get them up to me. The climb started along the top of a steep scree slope and meandered diagonally toward the downhill section through the pitches, By the time you got to the first belay station you were now 70m above the ground and no where near the actual rap stations. So my 60m rope didnt get me anywhere near the ground even if I fixed my line and rappelled on a single strand. My only option was to downclimb a sketchy polished slab lead. Was it fun? Not at all. Did it get me and all my gear off the mountain safely? Yes. When I'm at the gym we will climb up and downclimb our warmup routes. one it's a great workout that uses different movement than going up. And second point, it made me comfortable enough to get me out that day. Would i do it again? Yes
I totally respect the people that are willing to do this for cheapness sake, but I never could because my best friends dad took a ground fall from 40 feet and stopped climbing for the rest of his life after repelling directly off a sling like this. His set up was a sling around a tree and an 8 style repel device
Hello from Ukraine. I noticed that here lots of people use 6mm cord (aka 3rd hand/hollowblock etc) instead of dynema sling in order to bail from the route in situation you’ve described. Whats your take on that and how do you think abrasion/melting risks differ?
6mm static cord (like from a quad anchor) for sure is strong enough and would have better abrasion resistance. A hollowblock is actually pretty weak and breaks at a low force so can't recommend using one of those
@@pierceklinke13 The hollow block is ready to 13 kN. Some of the earlier versions did seem to break at suspiciously low loads when they were old and really worn out and had a lot of grip in the sand in them. Supposedly the newer ones mitigate this problem, but 13 kN should give you some confidence. You are correct in your answer to Anton, 6 mm cord is totally fine to bail from.
@@johngodino4374 yeah that what I was more referencing is depending on how old and worn your hollowblock is they can be significantly weakened. I've seen a friend of mine, who is an IFMGA guide, break one with his bare hands
Yes, this is even what is taught in alpine climbing in Netherlands. Alternatively, always bring a cheap 6 mm D-shape shackle. Have done the 6 mm cord trick multiple times, worst is more really the hook where you are going to hang it in. Hence always have some 6mm cord for prussik and for rope up climbing.
You audio quality improved a lot! My compliments! One question ... What about using a canyoning technique: put your dynamic rope directly into the bolt, rappel down with doble rope and then try to retive it? More friction but now we can have half rope length and not one third of the rope....
if it's just a bolt without a ring, it's going to add a lot of friction and greatly increase the chance to get stuck, not to mention the extra wear on the rope and bolt. Just use a quick link.
This may be a dumb question but I’ve done it so I’m curious. I just repelled off my rope through the bolt… It seemed a little sketchy but it was a round bolt. I imagine when I pulled the rope through was the worst part for the rope but the repel was safe. Thoughts?
Yeah dont. I mean you have to go direct untie then rethread. Even if you take a bite thru and then tie a figure 8 then clip to belay loop it would be better to just pay 5 bucks and leave a bail biner. But your alive so who cares.
Rapelling off a round bold is obviously OK. If the ring is smooth (check with fingernails for scratches) you could even lower yourself off of it. I try not to as it will wear the bolt out over time if enough people do it (toprope areas in europe)
I was taught in my rope rescue course that it's fine to rap off of round hangers/bolts(most glue ins) even lowering isnt going to do much to your gear. Obviously this isnt best practice to lower on permanent gear like this, but doing it once to get out of a sticky situation is going to be fine
Yeah I really prefer the method of middle mark in the rope sitting in the hangar, alpine butterfly then on the other rope without the butterfly you feed through the loop. It leaves you with a single strand to rappel but you could do it with just a rope and a single carabiner if need be. It gives you more rope length if needed. Get down to the bottom and pull down the rope you didn't rappel on.
When i have to bail, i simply (weird european i know) use a 5mm cord looped, put it trough the hanger and the rope trough the cord loop. MBS of that setup is pretty sure around 10KN ( four 5mm strands+knot) and super good enough for abseil the full length without giving a shit about getting down that cord. i gave it a good swing on the sharpest hanger i had, with no effect, even tested with a 3mm cord. So much (weird) breaktests but ryan did not react on my suggestion to test that bail setup... P.S. there is simply no movement rope on rope when abseiling on a rope taken in the middle when done correctly, friction prevent that. But sometimes this channel just tells what they think, never given a prove, lot of biases
I wish one of you guys did a video targeting normals not climbers. Do a basics that someone like me could maybe keep in the car in case of an emergency to get down from somewhere if I get stuck. Do a "So you drove off the road on a mountain and need to get down" video. I live in the mountains and would buy every single thing you suggest.
Unfortunately if the situation forces improvisation then you might be in this situation or similar one. I agree in that I do not like quick links but I keep one for a last option scenario. It is a gear choice you can trust.
Quick links get rusted and then they are impossible to remove and clog up the bolt (plus every next climber will have to lift up your shitty quicklink and place therir quickdraw underneath it if they wanna be safe). Someone will have to go up with tools to remove it. Instead of spending 3 euros on a dedicated quicklink, just sacrifice an old carabiner/quickdraw and give a little present to the next climber on the route.
@@MrMartin627 Obviously you misunderstood what I said. I DO NOT LIKE THEM, but as a last resort I carry one. I HAVE NEVER USED ONE as I have never found myself in the above mentioned situation but if it comes to using a really sketchy piece of gear I will choose this every time!!!
@@johntatman9168 I think his point is if you’re bringing a quicklink… just bring another carabiner instead. Bring a dedicated locker for your safety and ease for the next climber. Could be expensive, but then stop choosing routes you have to back off. Have had to bail once in the last year, was a mass of wasps, just lowered off my quickdraw and didn’t care.
Check out our new store! hownot2.store/
I’ve left carabiners at anchors. My attitude is it’s a donation to the cause. $5 isn’t a big deal and someone else gets to carry a bail ‘biner for their safety. Worth the price IMO.
I will not trust myself with this... I'd much rather leave a 7 euro locking carabiner up there, than risk mixing up the strands of my rope and having my rope stuck at the top.
The new setup looks way more user friendly than the old one. You can tell you designed it with all the previous testing in mind. I'm not a climber but these videos satisfy my curiosity for rigging and how forces act in the real world, also who doesn't love breaking stuff.
0:53: If you're lowering off of that one bolt and collecting your gear below and that bolt blows you're going to hit the deck. That last step before lowering would be to tie a prusik from your harness to the lowering side of the rope. That way if that bolt does blow, the prusik will bite into the rope and make up for the all of the slack above the climber. Not only will this prevent you from hitting the deck, but also allow you to trolley the rope down enabling you to collect your gear easier than without it (especially for overhung routes).
@jordanjohnson6288
Can you please elaborate on how a prusik would prevent the deck if the bolt I’m lowering off of blows?
I understand the use of prusik as a third hand while rappelling, and I always use a third hand for better control on my rappelling.. But I’m not able imagine how that can prevent the fall if the bolt itself blows..
@tdpandya007 the prussik would "short-cut" the big loop of rope between you and next quickdraw below you, so that you get caught by it as if it was a lead fall.
This is a standard technique to avoid getting down on a single point.
Is that not the same as the normal approach to abseiling down with a prusik to hold the rope?
@@DuncanAtkinson No, because this isn't abseiling. It's being lowered by a belayer.
Ah yes of course thanks @@thomasdalton1508
I like that Bobby said yes it works but I would only do it if I dropped all my equipment and only had a rope and a sling. Then Ryan said don't risk your life for a carabineer
You don't necessarily have had to drop something. bailing from the 8th pitch on a multipitch takes a lot of gear. The less you leave the more likely you are to actually get to the ground.
My multipitch instructor told me that they had to bail on a really long norweigan multipitch. They left the entire $1200 trad rack on the way down and still had to rappel from some pretty sketchy setups.
with thicker slings it is good to have the sewn bit on the retrieve side so it does not jam in the bolt; sucks when that happens...
thanks for the vids!
Seems like the channel is getting bigger slowly but surely! Well deserved. The best climbing gear info channel that exists in my opinion!
I dropped a like for that mid vid transition! That was fire 👍.
The audio quality in the new lab is on point!
I've used this method many times... when there is NOT a bolt. That's the best application for it. Rappelling off a small plate, chicken-head, or tree, this system is the best. Even better, with some creative thinking, you'll use 2 carabiner (one on each end of the sling) to eliminate the rope on sling friction.
There's still a lot that can go wrong, so pay attention! But you can get off a trad climb, or down a canyon, without leaving anything behind.
Loved the asap! Very clever, easy and practical solution . Audio quality is top-notch in the new lab! Great work improving this!.
I like how you use the asap…. 😅
Texas rope trick is my favorite method of rapping off of large trees where the height and length of rope allows it, more convenient and foolproof than macrome hitch
I wondered if this was a good solution for trees or if canyoneers use it
I have a dedicated tree anchor, webbing and two sizes of rap rings, replaces the tag line with a stopper knot that catches the small ring.
But I essentially use this technique as my default tree anchor.
Thanks for educating the masses. Keep it up.
Thanks, will do!
2:36 it's something about that "real quick trip down to the bottom" 😂😂
I’m too fat and too lazy to climb, but I love watching your channel! Thanks for the great content
Audio quality is top-notch in the new lab! Great work improving this!
I once used the TRT to rappel off a trad route. Leaving trad gear behind is far more financially difficult than leaving a single biner on a sport route. I looped a nylon strand around a chimney-wedged boulder and was able to (barely) reach the ground with all my gear in hand.
Also if you sport climbers don’t want to leave a locking biner, but you want the security of one, you can always use some tape from your fingers to keep a wire gate closed.
Great demonstration of that technique. Folks should (especially beginners) actually try their equipment in a safe scenario like yours as I personally found that I had much more confidence in the equipment after demonstrating to myself that no, it's not going to break and is in fact much stronger than you thought it would be. Excellent note about the kink / bend where it hangs on the point and the potential for a sharp edge there that could abrade the sling. As always: don't bet your life on a worn-out point, sling, hook or carabiner - they are way cheaper to replace than hospital visits and surgeries. Excellent Video!
I've also heard it's usually too expensive to replace a life. The carabiner is probably cheaper. But I haven't checked.
@@error.418 The one thing that no amount of money can ever truly replace.👍
I make it a point to know alternative ways to replace equipment. And I’ve had to use a couple on more than a few occasions. When I’m arena rigging, I use a short sling klemheist combined with a simple sheave to make a progress capture system. Far cheaper than a Petzl Traxxion. Ive also had to use a bachman’s knot as a makeshift ascender, and a munter hitch to rappel. This one is new to me, add another trick to the bag.
Knowing how a piece of equipment works and ways to replace it in a pinch is invaluable.
Flad you got some value. That was was the goal of publishing the video.
It wouldn’t be my first (or even second) choice, but a good technique to know for a rainy day. Thanks guys!
This is the best channel ever! thank you ryan and bobby and all for helping me conquer gear fear :)
edit- to an extent ;)
Woo go Bobby! Great memories from LM all the zip lines and obstacle course 😀
Cool sound quality this time!
I LOVE the ASAP there!!
Love the bobby supplemental videos. And the new lab (and audio) is awesome
thanks for the info. Also the audio in the new lab is great!
3 100k+ view videos in a row, and only 131k subscribers? Your channel is about to explode. I'm here before 1m subs
You're noticing that too!? It's crazy it's happening on niche aspects of these sports and not just broad stroke basics.
Love these little videos
There's another way the Texas rope trick can get stuck. If the bolt has a long stud, when you pull the third strand, the sling can loop up over the stud and then the whole thing is fixed. Happened the first (and only time) I tried this.
Great point.
Damn, same thing happened to me, and also on the first time i tried it for real on a multi-pitch route.
I had to climb back again on the other end of the rope to get the sling unstuck, and ended up sending that f***ing next pitch because there no way in hell i would try this trick again. Good way to muster up courage i guess hehe
Was i the only one completely surprised by Ryan showing up? I totally thought this was on Bobby's channel and figured it would be 6 months to a year before getting a break test 😂
That’s why I have the lab literally inside my house now. I broke the sling in my socks! Now my turn around time is measured in hours not months haha
@@HowNOT2 Break test on your socks next?
It would be really interesting to have a video where you test abrasion of soft goods under rappel forces!
better than going direct and tying a sheepshank and cutting the center... i like it
Loved the asap! Very clever, easy and practical solution 👍
The bolt doesn't hurt the sling, been using the same sling for years, no appreciable wear. But tie to the bartack side of the sling. And just make sure that when you start pulling the rope at the bottom, that the one tail end on the ground is the one that starts floating away from yourself.
Just to add to this: when we talk about not weighting soft goods over sharp edges, if you can't cut your thumb on it, it's not a sharp edge you need to worry about.
@@Grethko I would really hope your a being sarcastic.
@@kiefmanning7394 about what?
@@Grethko lmao I nearly died repelling over an edge that did not seem sharp because the nature of the decent required moving side to side sawing on the rope.
@@bobbypatton4903 yeah, I would say use your judgment with stuff like this. Just going over the edge may be OK, but side to side is definitely no no 😁. The biggest problem with this kind of systems is people not analyzing stuff. To me it is perfectly safe to rappel off, but some dummies will then try to top rope on this 😂🤣😂
The drop tower would be great to demonstrate the rope cutting through the sling. :)
A carabiner is so much cheaper than almost any kind of injury.
Wow Ryan's audio in this episode sounds so much tighter than normal! I don't know if it's just because of the acoustics of the room but I think it's a huge improvement.
Funny, I was thinking the complete opposite. It feel a bit "robotic" and really feel like it's dubbed.
@@Frecky123 it definitely sounds less natural, less like you're in the room with him. I personally feel it sounds more professional and is easier on the ears, especially with headphones, but I can see how you could disagree
Yeah tbh I miss the scuffed audio lmao
It sounds dubbed and i don't like it.
At 8:20 you can hear a lot more of the room, maybe he records voice separately with lav mic, which makes it sound like that. Or maybe it is some overdone effect in post.
@@JGnLAU8OAWF6 at first i also thought the audio was tons better but repeating the video a couple times it feels like the cutoff is a tiny bit too early making the silence "off".
I love that the production of these videos is constantly getting better !
good stuff as always.
thank you, guys.
both of you!
This video is the perfect length!
Actually there's one important tip that i want to share:
Depending on the type of hanger that you want to use as anker its important to build the setup in a way that the side of the sling to which the retraction rope is tied is the one with the bolt (and best this is also the side with the hard sling connection part). With the opposite setup I've had a situation where the sling got stuck because it was catching the bolt nut. Impossible to safe and much to sketchy to climb up the rope again.
Its not too unlikely that this happens
Great trick that I have used way back when I had to bail of some routes. I would consider this as another tool in the toolbox and if use properly it should be supergood enough ;-)
That was our thought.
Hey, thats pretty cool and pretty sketchy! It kinda reminds me of an arbourist cambium saver
New audio is sweet !!
I use a piece of webbing with a overhand on each side. Use it to tie a macrome (not sure if I spelled that right) then tie my rope to the webbing. No damage to my gear, and I leave nothing behind.
I remember someone telling me that ropes cut slings years ago back in Newfoundland. I didn't believe them. So we set up the test with me on one side and them on the other. We cut the slang in like 2 or 3 goes back and forth. It was so fast that neither of us expected it and we both fell flat on our bums. Good Times!
I started using a prusik with a kevlar core. I make a prusik knot on the strand I want to pull down then instead of clipping the prusik to a carabiner I run it through the hanger and pull the other strand of the rope through that loop. Just as bomber as a carabiner and I don't have to leave anything.
Love to see a vid on the Pezel Eject big item on a arborists belt 😉 could also help in the big wall decents
Great sound quality of Ryan's voice!
Glue-ins or stainless round bar bolt hangars 🤘🏽
A quickdraw cost less than a session at my local climbing gym.
I noticed that the noise suppression on your voice in the new lab is a bit aggressive, almost sounds like ai generated voice. You might wanna fine tune that. Great video anyhow.
The one good use of the ASAP, my goodness.
Would be interesting to breaktest a sling that was used on a hanger once to see if it is still roughly the normal strength
I always carry a couple of sacrificial carabiners 😁
Since I usually use double ropes I rather simply feed it directly through the bolt and tie of with overhand. If by any chance I see any wear in contact point I would simply tie it of a bit lower on following pitch thus isolating compromised part. This goes also to the second person to rappel as he can move the knot just before going down.
Worst case scenario I loose up to a meter of my old and streched anyway rope.
That being said I have never observed any significant wear in doing so ;)
I've put the rope through the hanger couple of times, still here 😁. Variation of this is to do a loop with accessory cord through the hanger and then just leave it there.
I learned this from a 14 year old kid many years ago! Never to old to learn....however, only 1 anchor, not very safe.
That new slack snap is genius
So to rappel off the two strands you would use an atc or munter or...?
the audio quality is so good now
Would it not be better to tie an alpine butterfly at the halfway point on the rope and feed one tail of the rope through the bolt and then through the loop on the alpine butterfly and abseil down the length that's fed through the loop? Gives you more rope length and should still be relatively easy to retrieve. Would definitely save your rope getting stuck if somehow you managed to get your sling jammed by descending on the wrong tail. Would also eliminate any friction between the rope and sling.
It seems like it's more niche than that even "you dropped everything but a sling". There's a draw on the wall which has two carabiners plus you're rappelling at this point, not being lowered so you need a rap device which pretty much means another carabiner. I guess if somehow you just reached the bolt and don't have another draw (why?) and you can't get a clip from your belayer so there's no way you can rappel if you leave the one on your device this is the only way. But that seems even more far fetched than you dropped everything but a sling.
instead of folding Your rope 3 times. to retrieve the sling You can use a small diameter cord. You will not confuse it and it weights 3g per meter. so 60m cord will weight 180grams... and its dirt cheap :D
it also only reduces your rappel height by half your rope length rather than by two thirds, so the chances of your being able to reach the next anchor down greatly increase.
I just leave a carabiner. Probably fine to use a sling. Lots of things are probably fine but I won't add stress or risk just to save a carabiner. I figure I've recovered as many carabiners as I've left. It evens out.
What about carrying a small soft shackle with a rap ring on it? Cheap and easy to make at home, super light and bomber enough to bail from, yeah?
Do you think an alpine butterfly canopy anchor through the hanger would work?
What about clipping in to bolt, telling belayer to come off, rap down off the hanger ?
Good rope cutting tip! I won't have to bring a knife along next time I go climbing.
I've cut a tree down with paracord.
so for some forward thinking, wouldn't it be safer to use paracord as the slip strand so you don't mistakenly use it as a load strand? What does 50m of 550 paracord weigh compared to 100m of 9mm anyway?
Having done this rope friction cutting demo many times, I can tell you that full body weight makes a big difference. You might only be putting 20kg of force onto the gear with your feet on the ground and just pushing down.
I've mostly used rope on rope (10+mm dynamic rope), one about 1m long with a loop on each end to hold (so you can completely hang on it) and the other just a loop that is hanging from a tree. 20 secs is decent, but I've seen someone do it in 10 secs! Afterwards, the hanging loop is clearly melted through at one point and the moving rope is usually a bit melted all the way along, sometimes also through to showing core.
I don't now the english name for it but in french it's called "noeud Dufour" (Dufour knot?).
It need only 2 strand of rope going down to the bottom, so can go up to half your rope length. You use one strand to rappel and the other one to start ejecting the knot (you need to alternatively pull the strand to completely detach it).
If you combine that with a cleverly place sling, you can retrieve everything and never have rope on sling friction.
But if not properly done, this knot can be quite unforgiving, So, to use with caution (and training).
This would have been a good one to see on the drop tower
Great new lab setup and awesome text. The voice recording in the Lab sounds almost dubbed, or like and AI. Noticed it with the last video in the new lab as well. Good luck with ironing out the kinks, certainly so much behind the scenes that makes it hard to get it just right. Thanks for all the work you do.
Can you pull test the Petzl connect/evolv adjust? Like many of us, I use them for all the obvious things, even the ones Petzl doesn't recommend and find them to be awesome but it would be sweet to see them pull or drop tested to failure.
I’ve never big walled so I don’t know very much but at 0:50 is it safe to open the gate on the carabiner
if there's tension on it to stop it rotating through whatever it's anchored to, and you're on a super good enough foothold so you don't slip and expose the open gate to a weird crossload, then yes, it's safe. A 25kN biner with an open gate is still rated at anything from 6-10kN.
What kind of method/equipment could I carry to descend a 30-50 ft tree in an emergency situation? I'm a paraglider and want to have an emergency plan for if I land in a tree out in the wilderness and there is nobody around. Minimal gear and weight would be needed so it can fit it in my pack. I was thinking a munter hitch descent method but that's difficult to use with thin rope. I can't exactly carry 100 ft of 9mm rope in my pack. It takes up too much space. Obviously using a radio or waiting for help is the first choice. But paragliders fly in VERY remote locations and sometimes there is a 0% chance that anyone will find you if you crash in a tree so it's up to you to hike out on your own.
Have you tried The super Munter. It adds a lot of friction. I might look at taglines used for climbing. There are a number of thin ones that are also quite abrasion resistant
probably look at type iv paracord (750lb-950lb tensile strength) or Titan XT Survivorcord (1000lb tensile strength, also has utility cores) and use it to twinrope your way down. I wouldn't use the same rope twice in that scenario though.
@Jim Moore that's a good idea. But the problem with skinny cord like that is that it's really hard to rappel. You can never get enough friction.
@@teddyruxpin3811 clip a descender onto your harness :)
When lowering of a single carabiner connect your harness belay loop to the belayer side of a rope. This way if a top anchor fails you won't fall too long.
Does pulling the rappel rope melt the sling? If it does better to just leave it. Anyway I have a number of worn bail biners (not that worn )that I carry for just this situation.
Try watching the video next time.
Actually impressive how long that took
Love the TRT. I prefer doubling the sling, then adding a knot on the pull side. Also I do use a carabiner to connect the pull end. Yes it whips down faster, but helps me visually keep things separated.
How about the beal escaper
Interested to know people's thoughts on reversing a climb and when is it a good idea?
Like downclimbing? It works great when you’re not close to your limit… but if you’re not close to your limit you maybe have other options too
Down climbing you mean? I had to do it on a multi pitch where my follower was unable to get up the first pitch, and unwilling to let me pull them up since we were having a hard time communicating due to wind noise I couldnt talk them through any of the techniques to get them up to me. The climb started along the top of a steep scree slope and meandered diagonally toward the downhill section through the pitches, By the time you got to the first belay station you were now 70m above the ground and no where near the actual rap stations. So my 60m rope didnt get me anywhere near the ground even if I fixed my line and rappelled on a single strand. My only option was to downclimb a sketchy polished slab lead. Was it fun? Not at all. Did it get me and all my gear off the mountain safely? Yes.
When I'm at the gym we will climb up and downclimb our warmup routes. one it's a great workout that uses different movement than going up. And second point, it made me comfortable enough to get me out that day. Would i do it again? Yes
I totally respect the people that are willing to do this for cheapness sake, but I never could because my best friends dad took a ground fall from 40 feet and stopped climbing for the rest of his life after repelling directly off a sling like this. His set up was a sling around a tree and an 8 style repel device
Can you use this with coredellete?
I’m with you on leaving a biner.
Hello from Ukraine. I noticed that here lots of people use 6mm cord (aka 3rd hand/hollowblock etc) instead of dynema sling in order to bail from the route in situation you’ve described. Whats your take on that and how do you think abrasion/melting risks differ?
6mm static cord (like from a quad anchor) for sure is strong enough and would have better abrasion resistance. A hollowblock is actually pretty weak and breaks at a low force so can't recommend using one of those
@@pierceklinke13 The hollow block is ready to 13 kN. Some of the earlier versions did seem to break at suspiciously low loads when they were old and really worn out and had a lot of grip in the sand in them. Supposedly the newer ones mitigate this problem, but 13 kN should give you some confidence. You are correct in your answer to Anton, 6 mm cord is totally fine to bail from.
@@johngodino4374 yeah that what I was more referencing is depending on how old and worn your hollowblock is they can be significantly weakened. I've seen a friend of mine, who is an IFMGA guide, break one with his bare hands
Yes, this is even what is taught in alpine climbing in Netherlands. Alternatively, always bring a cheap 6 mm D-shape shackle. Have done the 6 mm cord trick multiple times, worst is more really the hook where you are going to hang it in. Hence always have some 6mm cord for prussik and for rope up climbing.
You audio quality improved a lot! My compliments! One question
... What about using a canyoning technique: put your dynamic rope directly into the bolt, rappel down with doble rope and then try to retive it? More friction but now we can have half rope length and not one third of the rope....
if it's just a bolt without a ring, it's going to add a lot of friction and greatly increase the chance to get stuck, not to mention the extra wear on the rope and bolt. Just use a quick link.
This may be a dumb question but I’ve done it so I’m curious. I just repelled off my rope through the bolt… It seemed a little sketchy but it was a round bolt. I imagine when I pulled the rope through was the worst part for the rope but the repel was safe. Thoughts?
Yeah dont. I mean you have to go direct untie then rethread. Even if you take a bite thru and then tie a figure 8 then clip to belay loop it would be better to just pay 5 bucks and leave a bail biner. But your alive so who cares.
Rapelling off a round bold is obviously OK. If the ring is smooth (check with fingernails for scratches) you could even lower yourself off of it. I try not to as it will wear the bolt out over time if enough people do it (toprope areas in europe)
I was taught in my rope rescue course that it's fine to rap off of round hangers/bolts(most glue ins) even lowering isnt going to do much to your gear. Obviously this isnt best practice to lower on permanent gear like this, but doing it once to get out of a sticky situation is going to be fine
Gotcha, thanks guys for the consideration
There won’t be much force applied when pulling the rope, as the rope is just under its own weight.
Yeah I really prefer the method of middle mark in the rope sitting in the hangar, alpine butterfly then on the other rope without the butterfly you feed through the loop. It leaves you with a single strand to rappel but you could do it with just a rope and a single carabiner if need be. It gives you more rope length if needed. Get down to the bottom and pull down the rope you didn't rappel on.
can we see a video with those texora slings
Ryan@slackline.com and I’ll send you the raw video on gdrive.
When i have to bail, i simply (weird european i know) use a 5mm cord looped, put it trough the hanger and the rope trough the cord loop. MBS of that setup is pretty sure around 10KN ( four 5mm strands+knot) and super good enough for abseil the full length without giving a shit about getting down that cord.
i gave it a good swing on the sharpest hanger i had, with no effect, even tested with a 3mm cord.
So much (weird) breaktests but ryan did not react on my suggestion to test that bail setup...
P.S. there is simply no movement rope on rope when abseiling on a rope taken in the middle when done correctly, friction prevent that.
But sometimes this channel just tells what they think, never given a prove, lot of biases
This isnt a climbing channel. its a physics channel and i love it.
I could see this as an improvised escape from a high building, or a hiker who wasn't expecting to climb who needs to get down a rock face.
...provided you have a rope and a sling on you?
I wish one of you guys did a video targeting normals not climbers.
Do a basics that someone like me could maybe keep in the car in case of an emergency to get down from somewhere if I get stuck.
Do a "So you drove off the road on a mountain and need to get down" video. I live in the mountains and would buy every single thing you suggest.
Bodyweight friction cutting a sling with a rope seems like a pretty fun exercise, ngl
Bobby, is there any chance you could demonstrate the quick link bail version?
I don't like people using it. Why would I show people how? -Bobby
Unfortunately if the situation forces improvisation then you might be in this situation or similar one. I agree in that I do not like quick links but I keep one for a last option scenario. It is a gear choice you can trust.
Quick links get rusted and then they are impossible to remove and clog up the bolt (plus every next climber will have to lift up your shitty quicklink and place therir quickdraw underneath it if they wanna be safe).
Someone will have to go up with tools to remove it. Instead of spending 3 euros on a dedicated quicklink, just sacrifice an old carabiner/quickdraw and give a little present to the next climber on the route.
@@MrMartin627 Obviously you misunderstood what I said. I DO NOT LIKE THEM, but as a last resort I carry one. I HAVE NEVER USED ONE as I have never found myself in the above mentioned situation but if it comes to using a really sketchy piece of gear I will choose this every time!!!
@@johntatman9168 I think his point is if you’re bringing a quicklink… just bring another carabiner instead. Bring a dedicated locker for your safety and ease for the next climber. Could be expensive, but then stop choosing routes you have to back off. Have had to bail once in the last year, was a mass of wasps, just lowered off my quickdraw and didn’t care.
Wow! Horrifying!