5 (very silly) mistakes I made trying to lighten my pack
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 พ.ค. 2024
- This week I run through 5 dumb things I did in pursuit of a lighter base weight. Enjoy!
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⛰ CHAPTERS
00:00 Intro
00:49 Mistake 1
02:57 Mistake 2
04:56 Mistake 3
07:04 Mistake 4
09:38 Mistake 5 - กีฬา
I like how we all say “I wish I could be like Jupiter” and Jupiter always says “This is probably not a good idea for most people”.
Even Jupiter doesn't want to be Jupiter.
Lol in all seriousness I'd love to be able to shave off the weight of my sleeping pad, I'm just not there yet (if ever.) I suspect cold tolerance is built up over time, to a degree.
The man is a legend, plain and simple.
@@timbschwartz The irony for me is that I seem to have no problem lounging on my thinlite and falling asleep during the day. But as soon as I’m in a shelter trying to sleep at night, it feels like I’m just laying on the ground.
Have you tried Glen Van Peski’s trick of finding/creating a dip in the ground under your butt? There’s a Gossamer Gear shorts series where he explains it. Speaking of legends. That dude still sleep on a thinlite! (With the aid of Tylenol PM)
Showing my age. I was thinking "who's Jupiter, is that a nickname for Ray Jardine?".
@@peterscott2662 JupiterHikes you should really check him out. He has an interesting mindset about hiking and gear.
You poked the quilt people AND the tarp people in the same video?!?
I admire your courage, sir. 😉
Haha wish me luck! Thanks for watching :)
LOL!! 🤣
You know what we call quilt and tarp people in the Great Lakes region?
Nearly unalived by mother nature nine months outta the year.
@Sleepy7666 I'm not a tarp camper (I prefer to shut out mice, ticks, mosquitoes, and spiders), but I do love camping/backpacking year round in the mountains here in Montana with my quilt and tent, including snowy winters. :)
@@OutHereMontana yeah we got mosquitoes the size of the eagles from LOTR here in Wisconsin....
and if you are hiking in the desert, feel free to bring all your favorite fully hydrated foods; you are going to pack the water in one form or another.
Thats a really solid point! I hadn't thought of that, so thanks for sharing!
Isn’t some aspect of dehydration about preservation?
@@eringodfrey1196 Quit a few foods that are dehydrated for hiking are fine hydrated and even have alternatives to keep then fresh. For example, lemon juice helps apples and other fresh fruits stay, well, fresh. Sure, it does make it a little more sour, but I personally always liked the added flavor. That’s subjective though, but it’s always an option for some sort of preservation.
Yes. Dehydrated to save weight only makes sense if there's a source of water at or near your overnight camp with which you can rehydrate the food. Weight aside, I generally prefer the taste of "wet" MREs rather than the dehydrated ones.
Awwww thats cute you think desert means that there is no water around... that is rarely true.
After a few years of thruhiking, I've noticed that people fall into 3 stages or categories, with none of them being bad.
1. The beginner/REI fitted/just enjoying themselves (probably)
2. Discovers Reddit/only cares about weight with no regard to function (the growing phase)
3. The been there done that crowd that doesn't mind a couple extra ounces for comfort or they know how to embrace the discomfort.
Really solid points here! Thanks for watching :)
Even with an ultralight tent, tarps kick ass when you are having a week of rain; the tarps allows you to live outside of your tent covering your cooking area and relaxation area.
Thanks for the comment! Completely agree - the livable space under a tarp is unmatched.
Yeah even a little thing just covering the entry so you can have it open in the rain 🙂
That until you learn to make a bulletproof setup... A tent + tarp.
funny that the reason I prefer quilts over sleeping bags is that I'm active sleeper and inside quilts I can turning around more easily without moving quilt itself
Haha! Yeah I suppose it really depends on the person. Thanks for watching!
My reason exactly. A sleeping bag leaves me tied in knots. Adding a bivy to a quilt avoids drafts and lets me roll around
@@timbschwartz I failed my first quilt experience but had found out later it wasn’t the quilt but my fault. I didn’t use the pad straps properly. After adjusting them correctly I now always sleep in a draft free bed. But yes it isn’t for everyone.
Same! I have the 10 Enigma and am also a thrasher and it’s been great well well below freezing.
I guess it depends on the temperature. I've never used a quilt (I want to but I don't tent backpack enough since I am from NZ and we use our amazing huts instead, plus money) but I'm an ACTIVE sleeper and I often wake up in the night with the hoodie of my sleeping bag to the side or above me and I have to do three of four 360's to untwist everything. In warmer weather I think quilts would be better since it doesn't matter if my active sleeping creates a breeze (and won't twist things up)
For colder temperatures (think below 5 degrees celsius) I have never gotten cold in my twisted sleeping bag because there are few openings for the air to go into my sleeping bag - heck I have done mountaineering and slept in below zero conditions and was surprisingly not cold.
Not saying you can't do the same in a quilt but I feel for an active sleeper you might be warmer in colder temperatures with a sleeping bag (although you probably won't be as comfortable from what I've heard)
I was once in a presentation where the word “FAIL” was flipped to be an acronym for “First Attempt In Learning.”
I’ve lived by that ever since.
At some point, one stops simply parroting someone else’s gear list and begins experimenting with their own ideas on lightening the load. Mistakes are made, sure, but valuable lessons and skills are learned as well.
I go on trips specifically designed to try radical ideas. I take my normal gear as a backup, and then take the experimental solution, fully intent on using it.
In this way I’m safe to make stupid mistakes, and don’t lose the opportunity to discover breakthroughs of my own.
Pushing SOL emergency blankets as a shelter is my current project. I can already see the failure, but am intrigued enough to give it a go in my native Midwest conditions, that I’m all too familiar and experienced with.
Yep, I did the same two summers ago with the cheap and light Costco quilt. It failed as a warm experience around 2:00 A.M., maybe because the weather changed and I was camped at 6,000' (there was frost on the fly before sunrise). Lesson learned, safely.
@@memathews Double Black Diamond!!! My wife uses that quilt (after a footbox mod) for down to 50F with her puffy as a backup extra layer.
@@andymytys Yep, that's the one! That makes sense on a 50° night, it just didn't work for me below 40°
Really solid points here, Andrew! I keep meaning to bring my foam pad out in these conditions, along with my inflatable as a backup, to see if I can crack the code of making it work. Perhaps I'm hardier than I was a few years back haha
@@timbschwartz funny story. I could never get a Zrest to work, but that 1/8” pad does. I think the texture of a Zrest pad doesn’t work for me, while the foam pad is a flat and even surface.
I agree about quilts, the draft wakes me up, but I'm glad they're there for people who like them
Totally! As long as folks are enjoying themselves :) Thanks for watching!
Phew! You didn't mention a camp chair!
When I first started backpacking, I had ZERO idea that weight was even a thing to be worried about. My first Big 3 weighed over 15 pounds! Now? MUCH lighter. And tarp with a 1/8" mat is just silly, IMO. I appreciate camp time just as much as trail time, so I'll bring the creature comforts, including that camp chair! My 55 year old bones appreciate not sitting on.a stump or a wet log at camp.
And I like my DCF stuff sacks to help keep me organized.
Haha! I haven't picked up a camp chair yet, but I'm sure I will at some point. I'm a big believer that its not about having a single perfect gear list, but more packing for the goals of each individual trip. Sometimes that's lots of walking, and sometimes I want to lounge. I would still love to be able to rock 1/8" foam and a tarp for fast and light trips, but I'm not quite there yet.
@@timbschwartz Absolutely! I always have different plans in mind when I go out - and bring whatever I may need for that particular trip.
That's why it's very useful to use a scale to discover how much weight we carry and how crazy we are lol. It helps to make better choices and remove all extra straps, tags, etc..
I really enjoyed the conversational tone of this video, and all the interruptions that you left in. It feels so much more relatable that way, especially as a content creator who also has to deal with unexpected noises all the time!
Thanks so much, Ruth! I appreciate the comment!
and don't forget his wise words at the beginning.
Your channel is awesome. From video subjects to the concise nature in which they are presented with a professional manner, it’s awesome! Underrated backpacking channel of the year!
Thank you so much for the kind words! I really appreciate you!
I like your caveats. Treating subjects categorically is never the path to learning more and becoming better.
The more you know, the less you carry. The more you know, the more you know that you don't know everything.
So glad you enjoyed the video! Thanks so much for watching
Agree, been using tarps since I was a kid and sleep better in them unless there are other people around then the tent is the way to go. Making your own dehydrated meals is a game changer, outside of the obvious benefits just having things spiced the way you like it is a nice boost for the morale in the evening.
Thanks for the comment! I have a dehydrator that I've used a few times to make beef and sweet potatoes, which is not only tasty but pretty good for the bod as well. I'll need to spend more time working on some recipes.
I sold outdoor gears a few years. When peoples came to me for an ultralight backpack to go ultralight or such.
1- Congrats, it's a good idea to lighten the weight.
2- The backpack is probably the item you want change at the end. I'll skip a lengty detailed answer but in two words: respect the weight comfort range of a backpack.
Great points! I normally tell friends to swap out their pack last for this exact reason. Thanks for commenting!
There is more then 1 pack for multiple types of trips...
You don't need a 70-10 on a day hike.
Indeed. My computer backpack for an 18" laptop is far more comfortable for long day hiking than ultralightweight packs. I'll gladly sacrifice a little weight for wide padded straps and a nice wide padded back. And I don't need all the bad separators, because it has pockets galore (and even a lightweight rainfly that covers the whole pack).
It's too small for camping hiking.
I have 3 things I never skimp on:
1. water
2. high energy density snacks
3. a comfortable pack
I've experienced a few times when ~2hr hikes became 5hr. Everyone was really glad for just that little bit of energy when we all hit that hunger drained point. I could see peoples faces light up a bit vs weary slog.
Guillaume... North Face au centre-ville de Montréal?
I'm an active sleeper and I also didn't like the EE quilt (Enigma). But a Katabatic quilt has been awesome even in sub-freezing temperature. It's cut and attachment system keeps things well tucked even when I move from side, to back, to side, etc. I like it so much that I now have two (15 and 30 degree).
Thanks for the tip! I've always been interested in picking up some gear from Katabatic - I hear great things.
@@timbschwartz I agree re: Katabatic quilt. A couple of straps keep it secure on my pad, and I can (and do) turn over in it quite a bit. Love my Katabatic.
Hey Tim, cool video as always. I like that you show the distractions, makes it more personal. Nice to hear about your evolution. 👍🏾
Thanks so much for watching! I'm glad you enjoyed the slightly different tone of this video. It's fun to mix it up.
Great video! Always one of my favorite content creators
Thank you so much for the kind words, Mark! That means a lot :)
Yes, backpacking is a constant flux state, always trying something different. Sometimes I make mistakes, other times I find a new bliss. I started back in the '60s with a canvas pack, a steel frying pan and a coffee can for boiling water (sanitation), while wearing Levi's, a wool shirt/jacket, and high-top logging boots. The entire outfit is lighter now, but still just as fun.😊
Haha totally! I remember backpacking in jeans growing up - technical clothing wasn't really something that I was aware existed when I was a kid. I also had these massive Raichle boots (still have them somewhere) that weighed more than my big 3 now lol. Just as much fun as it is today!
I use enigmas when I’m in warm weather and looking to vent…otherwise I’m in a bag. I need to take some time and shake some stupid out of my pack…there’s at least a pound of it in there…
Hahaha!
Yeah I'd still like to get one again for summer. Some day.
Thanks for the comment!
I relate to the consumables issue. Just got back from a 4-day, 75 mile trip. Everything I had read warned about long water carries, and recommended carrying 4-5L of water. What I failed to grasp was that while there were 20 mile stretches with no reliable water sources, there were other stretches where water was plentiful. So rather than figure out when I didn't need more than a liter, I just carried 4L the whole time.
Plus, since I knew I'd be doing relatively big miles, I grossly overestimated how much food I needed. For example, I packed 2 packages of chicken and 2 wraps for lunch, and only ate one. I finished with easily 2 days of food left over.
So while I had a 8.5lb baseweight, my starting TPW ended up around 25lbs, which was pretty rough with my frameless pack given the mileage and climbs. I could have easily eliminated 5+lbs for much of the trip with better water and food planning.
Thanks for sharing! I suppose it beats the alternative of not having enough water :)
This video is a breath of fresh air due to the down to earth approach and realisme for the more relaxed and occasional backpacker. Well done!
Thank you so much for the kind words! I'm glad you enjoyed it :)
Same on the quilt. I wish I got a sleeping bag. The draft around my lower back is annoying. The crow scene following the cars, boats, and planes is hilarious. :)
Glad you enjoyed the video!
Good news is, if the quilt continues to not work out, there's always ebay. I've found you can basically get what you paid for most stuff.
10:00 honestly that crow was giving really good UL advice 😂
Haha! Thanks for watching!
Great video!
I am planning to get out there a lot more this year.
Thanks for watching, Jeffrey! Enjoy your trips this year!
Thanks for the honesty, sometimes I feel offended when people are negative about quilts :P But you are 100% right, it all comes down to how you sleep and what your preferences are.
Thanks for watching! Yep, different gear for different people. Besides this is TH-cam, the more I change my mind the more videos I can make :P
I just got back from hiking the Ocean to Lake trail in Florida - the trail where Jupiter started backpacking and has done over 25 times.
I was hammocking, but as I was sleeping in designated campsites I relied on FarOut for intel and one of the campsites had no mention of being hammock compatible.
The nice thing about hammocking is that you have a separate tarp, so it wasn’t a lot of added weight to bring an inner ground shelter to suspend underneath and cover myself for ground sleeping (maybe +10 oz for a MLD Serenity bug net (no longer made)).
I use a 1/8” pad as an under layer in the hammock down to about 52 F, so I had the perfect excuse to try things Jupiter’s way… one night of bad sleep wouldn’t kill me.
If I needed more padding, I would put four segments of a Zrest pad under my torso, which I carry as a pseudo-frame for my frameless ruck.
Florida is pretty flat and soft in terms of ground, and I found I actually slept well and didn’t have any kinks in the morning.
I’m going to keep experimenting with the 1/8 inch foam pad. My pack weight is light enough that, until I gain skill and confidence, I can always bring my 12oz inflatable as insurance without really noticing it.
I think the 1/8 inch pad can be a viable option for sure, but for me it really just depends on season and campsite. I don't personally mind the lack of padding, it's more about staying warm. I've slept without a sleeping pad in deep summer and been ridiculously comfortable, but that's generally no the norm for me on hard packed (cold) ground.
This is actually great advice :)
I’m just starting out and buying stuff now, my first thoughts were ”Everything must be as light as possible” but when I started actually visualizing how I would be using the equipment I realized that it would be stupid to just take the lightest stuff. I mostly bike out into the forrest near me, so my bike will take most of the weight during transport and i hate sleeping on an uncomfortable tiny pad. So I bought a bigger tent and a wider sleeping pad since I’m going to use it to be comfortable and have fun, not grit my teeth fighting wolves, doing somersaults and punching the badguy.
Thanks for the comment! Glad to hear that you've settled on some gear that works well for you. Like you said, there's rarely a need to go as light as is humanly possible.
Well, what you're describing is camping. Not thru-hiking. Are you putting in 15-20 miles a day on foot? If not, definitely aim for comfort and enjoyment.
I did some thru-hiking years back and hated it. Never got to stop and actually enjoy much other than some views. The focus always being on putting in the miles and making time.... something I already did massive amounts of in the Marines.
There is value and things to be learned from thru-hiking, but I'm more of a camper/minimalist bushcrafter type that can still put in some miles but there's no real rush and I can stop and smell the flowers anytime I feel like it. Setup camp where I want. Fish. Hunt.. etc
The zenbivy quilt system is super nice. It has a clip in sheet that prevents drafts. I have the light bed and the ultralight set.
I've had a Zenbivy system for about five years. I love it. I usually sleep in a hammock; on those trips, I only need the top quilt. But when I am a groundling, I love having the sheet between me & the mattress.
Everyone seems to love their Zenbivys! I'll need to check it out :)
love your honesty! I can relate to many of your points :)
Thanks so much for the kind words! Glad you enjoyed it!
Have you tried a hammock? I am also an active sleeper, but I find the in a hammock, I don't toss and turn nearly as much, and because my under quilt cups around my body from underneath, I don't get drafts with my top quilt. I just switched from a tent/ground camping to a hammock setup this year, and I'm enjoying it so far.
Hi! I do own one, I just don't use it super often. I need to spend more time in it. Thanks for the comment!
We all want to be like Jupiter 🥲
"Just think of the weight savings!"
Ain't it the truth!
Not me :-)
Too old to be like Jupiter. Air pad if I expect to walk the next day.
Tents are now very light. I was the same, tarp or die. I now use a mid style tent
Works
Thanks for the video
Thanks for watching, and glad we agree!
Well Done Tim. Thanks for keeping it real.
Thank you so much for the kind words! I'm glad you enjoyed the video :)
This is great advice that will help me plan my 2025 A.T. hike. I've got my base weight down to 12-15 lbs but food and water add up fast. Love the comic relief of all the interruptions!
So glad you enjoyed it! Good luck with your hike!
Love your channel, just subscribed! The bear bag video alone sold me.
For others*: You could have your mind made up about quilts, but if your quilt has loops on the side you can really cinch it down. You are then able to have a dream state wrestling match under there and the quilt won't budge. I felt the same way as you do before learning about those little widgets.
Thanks so much for the kind words and for subscribing! Yeah it seems like everyone has had a different experience with them, and I'll be the first to admit that it may have been user error on my part. To each their own, my friend!
Nice video (including the interruptions)... but I have to say, as an active sleeper I've never looked back after switching to quilts. My first quilt was an EE which I was very hesitant about purchasing at the time, but was so glad I did. Since then I have moved to the Zenbivy system and absolutely LOVE it!! But in the end, everyone has to find what works best for them. There is no right or wrong, just personal preference. 😊
Thanks so much for watching! Agreed, it all comes down to personal preference, and all that really matters is that we're having a good time in the woods.
Zenbivy is amazing!
That "high but small pad + quilt combination causing drafts when moving around"-problem does sound familiar 🤔
I do still prefer the quilt becuase I don't get entangled in it, but that's me
Good point! Lots of folks seem to like them for that reason. Thanks for watching!
Hey Tim!
I really like your intro. You're an example on how people should be on TH-cam. And for that, you have my 100% respect.
As for the video itself: LOTS of very valuable info, common sense, and shared experience. So much that I'm not only impressed, but very impressed. My motto is from Horace Kephart in 1908: "At the school of woods, there's no graduation day".
Again, well done! You're a fresh breath of air on TH-cam and a perfect example of what a GOOD "TH-camr" should be.
P.S. I didn't say "...perfect TH-camr" not knowing how much your hat can extend to ;)
Thank you so much for saying so! This means a lot :)
As an active sleeper, Katabatic quilts are great. The pad attachment system works great and seals drafts very well. I use the regular width and don’t have any issues
Thanks for the tip! I haven't purchased anything from Katabatic yet, but I hear really great things!
Great video and great sharing.
You probably tried this, but in the rare chance, you haven't... I have an enigma quilt as well. Two small things I learned: pulling a bit of the quilt through the hole at the bottom (after doing it up) and wrapping my quilt around and under my pad and not just around me eliminated all draft even at or below freezing. Apologies if you've tried these things, but if you haven't, they make all the difference for me, for what that's worth.
Thanks for the tip, and thanks so much for watching!
For me (an super active sleeper as well) I feel like quilts are giving me superpowers compared to sleeping bags. Quilts allow me to roll around, side to side, so freely compared to sleeping bags, so I don't even wake up at nights anymore with quilt. I wouldn't say that quilts are not for active sleepers :D
Thanks for the comment! More just not for me I suppose, although who knows - I may try a quilt at some point again and love it.
Awesome video, Tim. Liked your crow double-takes and totally relate to your issues with sleeping bags vs quilts. Thanks for uploading. Notice Jupiter is now using a thermarest and tent - he must be feeling his age (said as much in a comment on one of his recent gear videos). So rude, but then I am older than him. 🫢
So glad you enjoyed the video! Yeah I've really been enjoying his recent videos on new gear.
I agree with your feeling on inflatable pads Tim, always feel like I'm falling off them. Ended up with the REI airrail plus. Its decently bulky, (have a nemo tensor wide for a smaller summer option), but is very warm and the rails help me sleep so much better. Have seen the big agnes rapide be recommended for similar rails minus the extra pack size.
Thanks for watching, and thanks for the pad suggestions! Yeah maybe it's just the neoairs, specifically. I'll take a look at the ones you recommended!
I’m also an active sleeper but feel really cramped in sleeping bags, for me the zenbivy ended up being the best of both worlds. I’m going to sell my current one this year and upgrade to the new ultralight version when it goes on sale for Black Friday
Thanks for sharing! I keep hearing good things about the Zenbivy, so I should check it out a some point.
The best sleeping pad ive used is the big agnes rapide sl. Its warm, ez to pack, light and it hugs you when your sleeping due to it higher sizeds. I have the same problem, thinking am going to roll off in the night, the big agnes puts my mind at ease.
Thanks for the comment! I really love the idea of the vertical baffles on that pad, which must help keep you centered on it. Maybe I should pick one up!
Excellent video and list! As much as I have learned over my 25+ years of backpacking, I'm always learning something new. Still, there is just no substitute for experience and learning about yourself and your preferences. E.g. I wish I could go back to carrying just 1L of water like I did in the 1990s but I know I'm a "freak" about hydration and the more I drink, the better I feel. That's just my M.O.
Thanks so much for watching, Kevin!
I fully share your experience with inflatable pads. I just switched from a regular Thermarest to a Neo-air NXT. I love the lighter weight and small pack size but, having just got back from its "maiden voyage" of five days backpacking through Scotland, I found it SO uncomfortable, for exactly the reason you said; tensing up to avoid slipping off it. I was all set to sell it and go back to the regular Thermarest, but tried putting my waterproof coat over the Neo-air as a cover (anchored by wrapping the sleeves underneath). This stopped the sleeping bag sliding around like eggs in a Teflon pan and made a huge difference to comfort. My wife is now making me a custom cover for the Neo-air out of an old sheet sleeping bag liner. Should be no more than 100 grams additional weight when done. Still a lot lighter than the old Thermarest.
Thanks for sharing! I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one. Let me know how the cover works out!
My tip for the neo air mat is to not have it 💯 inflated, I am similar to you bro in that when those air type mats are inflated right up I feel like I'm bouncing around too much and I cant settle and sleep properly. I pump it up and then lay on it and then twist the valve to deflate it to just about the point I'm almost feeling the ground, its super plush like this... 👌
Thanks for the tip!
FF Flicker and don’t look back. I first thought the specs might be a bit snug. 5-11, 170. Side sleeper, I think. Dunno, I’m sleeping. I had the Swallow and Hummingbird. The Flicker is a nice middle ground. Works for me as a 2-3 season here in NorCal
Thanks for the tip! I keep meaning to pick up some FF gear - I've heard great things over the years.
Feathered Friends has a rental program. Try before you buy. Then, If you place an order, they deduct the rental fee. How cool is that.? Call them. Verify how the rental deduct works. I don't think it jives when placing the order online. They should honor it with a phone order. It's been a while since I rented/bought. Ive been a fan for over thirty years. Buy once , cry once. Just some thoughts. Just my opinion. Just sayin' @@timbschwartz
I kept waiting for the crow and wasn’t disappointed 🤣
Great point about just leaving useless extra stuff at home. Fun and practical video. Thanks!
Thanks so much for watching, and glad you enjoyed it!
I'm a bag man, myself. My terralite is a perfect quilt when unzipped. This along with a pad with a sheet is great in the warmer months.
I do use a foam pad UNDER my inflatable pad. The extra weight of the foam pad is inconsequential.
It also insures warmth in the cold months.
Nice! I really enjoy using my sleeping bag as a quilt in the warmer months, as well. The Zpacks bags have a zipper on the bottom so that you can open them up. Thanks so much for commenting!
Ive got a nice lightweight blanket (quilt) that I use instead of my sleeping bag when the weather is really warm.
Nice! I've done the same on a few occasions. Regretted it at least once because I thought I could get away with a blanket and no sleeping pad. Lesson learned haha.
Thanks for the insights!
I always wondered how all these ultralight youtubers do this without carrying any meaningful amount of water. Now I know, many are based in the northwest, if there's water everywhere, it all makes sense!
Where I usually hike there's very little possibilities to get water and most springs and little streams are dried up in the summer. So I'm always carrying a lot of weight in water, one evening and morning with two people and a doggy easily consumes 6l (about 2 gallons?).
Thanks for watching! Yeah we're a bit spoiled for water up here - it's nice to not have to think about it too much. I tend to drink quite a bit as well, so I'd be right there with you hauling lots of water if I didn't live here.
Agreed on quilts. I am such an active sleeper that I don't bother with a pillow at all on trail, because it's not going to stay under my head for long anyway. Even when I'm not on trail, when I wake up in my ordinary bed at home, every morning it looks like a tornado hit it. This morning, the sheet was in a godforsaken tight ropy wad that I was partially laying on top of, the comforter somehow was flipped at an angle (the "foot" of it was sort of upward to my left and not towards my feet at all) and the overquilt was half on the bed and half in the floor... lol. One pillow was in the far corner of the bed, and the other had fallen off the bed and was laying next to my bedroom garbage can.
I've always been like this, even as a little kid. My mother used to say that my bed always looked like a dogbed in the morning. :/
I have the Western Mountaineering Terralite, and it is WONDERFUL. It is very warm and snuggly, and roomier than the usual mummy bag so I don't get cold spots from my thrashing (if a bag is stretched tight enough, the loft will compress and create cold spots). If I get cold at all, it will be because I've somehow wiggled off the sleeping pad completely and am sleeping in a wad on the floor of the tent (which has happened before... sigh). Anyhow, I recommend it.
Haha sounds like you may even be more active than me! I'll have to check it out - thanks so much for sharing!
hah! This popped up and my first thought was "Tarp guy has mistakes.. I bet mistake 1 was trying a tent".. lol.. I stand corrected. Good advice and good vid! Consumables is spot on.
Haha! No I still love the tent. So glad you enjoyed the video!
Rolling around on the neoair xtherm sounds like crackling thunder in the middle of the night lol. Still love that pad to death though!
Totally! Despite it's issues it's still amazing. Thanks for the comment!
I’m hiking the pct in a months time Tim, I’m going to really focus on food and water this time. No carrying excess food or water, types of food and what the lightest options are. Plus eating healthier when in towns, instead of just smashing burgers all the time.
Gotta tell you...i know it's hard to do...but the typical diet I see with all these thru hikers is horrible...so much so that I think if they weren't hiking 20 miles a day, but sit in a cubicle and watch Netflix afterwards, they'd turn into flabby, pale blobs...pop tarts, chips, mashed potatoes with 30 ingredients, candies and more candies...
Good luck on your trip! Ever since I developed psoriatic arthritis I've been focusing on eating cleaner on trail and it feels great.
I, too, have a big trip coming up, and the struggle of meal planning for optimal health is real haha.
I have a wide quilt and love it and I agree I have to have my inflatable mat
Glad to hear the quilt is working out for you! All depends on the individual. Thanks so much for watching!
Energy bars are basically clay. Made me laugh and nearly spit my lunch out. Love it. And the damn crow 😅
Haha glad I was able to provide some entertainment!
I'm a side sleeper and do turn over a bit; zero problems with my quilt/Zenbivy system and I only go in cool/cold weather. But I do hate warm/hot weather....odd for a native, multi-generational Floridian, I know. Boycott North Face.
My friend dehydrates canned chicken breast for trail. We love to to take shelled sunflower seeds on trail. It adds protein, fat and crunch to anything. So yummy. Parmesan cheese is a good one to take also. 2.2 lbs per liter of water. So dang heavy!
Mmmm that sounds awesome! I have a dehydrator that I should use more often, so I'll give it a shot. Thanks for the tips!
You need to try a Zenbivy bed. I toss and turn a ton. Not only does it keep all the drafts out, it is WAAAAAY more comfortable than any sleeping bag I've ever been in.
Thanks for the tip! I'll look into it!
I'm a super active sleeper and have found quilts to be WAY more comfortable and WARMER! I will say that the Zenbivy is absolutely next level though. Try one.
Thanks for the comment! I'll check it out!
Last year 1st time ever, I snowshoe backpacked and carried my 25 degree sleeping bag. It snowed and I knew the temp. I was warm. this year, repeat, cept I had my new EE 10 degree quilt that Ive always wanted and finally got. Same other gear. Same temps. I was cold. Feeling some buyers remorse.
I've totally been there. Any chance the humidity was different? I've found that makes a huge difference.
I just came back from 6 days hike here in the middle of Scotland by the mountains using just foam pad to try out, was close to 0 celsius and kinda crazy, windy, rainy weather...anyway, easy to say - never again lol as side sleeper kinda sucks big time... but its only because my other BA Rapide failed on me, I bought it new and it was leaking air, had to send it back...
Scotland and the Isles. A place where you learn wet cold weather very fast. Love the place to get most of my kit.
Oh man, glad you at least had the backup pad! Yeah I think it really depends on the person. But hey, it's all about experimentation and now you know lol
@@timbschwartz Exactly hehe all about trying and learning, we are all different after all.
Just some constructive criticism - Most of the viewers watching this are people like me trying to learn about backpacking. So it would benefit from some simplified explanations when you wrap up each example. For instance I got nothing out of your example about sleeping pads. You went with the Neoair Xtherm, yet you had said you have problems with inflatable pads, so I don't really know what the difference was or the takeaway is - spending more for high quality, or simply that the benefits outweighed the cons, if it's a wider one (you didn't even say which you chose).
Thanks for the feedback!
I think it’s good to be flexible and use the kit that is right for the trip you’re doing at that. I use a quilt but when it gets cold in the fall and I am hiking in the Whites of NH it’s back to my Western Mountaineering sleeping bag. I think Jupiter can do what he does because he hikes a lot of long distances and your body just hardens over time. I do a lot of long distance backpacking and I have never seen anyone use that thin pad he uses to sleep on, to be honest I never see anyone use a tarp either. DCF tents I think do it all. Food is a huge issue and I have worked to carry just what I need. I like getting to my resupply with next to nothing left in my food bag. Take care
Completely agree! Flexibility is key, and it's less about having a one size fits all gear list and more about packing for the trip. Thanks for the comment!
The woodland background with a papercup, plastic lid, coffee confuses me. Is there a starbucks next to that park table or did you drive your purchased coffee to the forest for ambience?
Experience Is The Best Teacher.
To know precisely what to have and how to use it is go out with nothing but a notebook and pen.
Good show. Currently using the Superfly. It's like a small NYC apartment.
Nice! Been looking at hammock tarps - that looks solid.
Subbed. +1 for ditching the quilts for similar reasons. I too find inflatable pads just meh for slpg on. Have not returned to foam but have debated going back to old 1 inch Thermarests.
Thanks for the comment! I've been looking at picking up a Thermarest z-lite sol - should be a bit warmer than my foam pad now.
I'm a relatively new backpacker, it was my mid-life crisis thing, and I was greatly entertained by this video. New sub here.
So glad you enjoyed it! Thank you for watching!
Western Mountaineering bags, no brainer. Tarps, went through that phase 35 years ago for light weight until mosquitos and tarantulas changed my mindset. Now, Tarptent Protrail model.
I still have yet to pick up a Western Mountaineering bag, but I hear great things. Thanks for the comment!
@@timbschwartz I've had several of them. No matter what the reputation, they are still "just a sleeping bag" so if you toss and turn, you will end up with a hoody on top of your face and compressed "down" on top of you making you cold...
I too have struggled with my quilt. It’s a 0 degree EE quilt. It truly is warm to zero degrees, however the draft is annoying, the pad straps are annoying, and I miss having a hood. I moved to a 0 degree quilt from using a heavy xxl Teton sports bag. The weight and space savings is huge, but I do sort of wish I’d made a more modest drop in weight in exchange for getting a cozy good quality 0 degree down bag. The other issue I have is that the quilt is so warm that around 25 degrees I start sweating with basic baselayers but then attempting to vent the quilt it freezes me out. I still have that quilt, I just use a small blanket inside it (ruining my weight savings) in order to fight the drafts
Thanks for sharing! Glad it's not just me haha. Again, I'm sure that they work great for some people, I just couldn't make it work.
@@timbschwartz now I just have to resist the guilt of not sticking with the lightest option. Truthfully I was pushing pretty hard for UL having gotten summer baseweight down to 12 pounds. Then I realized the sacrifices I was making wasn’t worth it since a 15-20 lb baseweight just isn’t that bad. Maybe I’d change my tune if I really wanted to do 25 mile days
@@charliemcdowell5231 For me personally, nothing magical happens below 10 lbs. I think its probably a great goal for either 1) people that are hiking thousands of miles or 2) people enjoy cutting weight as a hobby (I fall into this camp.)
I wouldn't stress the extra few pounds as long as you're having a good time!
I think you'd sleep alot better on a inflatable pad if you got a wide... I have a wide mummy style, almost wish I had a Rectangle shape to help keep feet on when rolling around... 😂 but anything not covered cools pad down too much in super cold weather...
Edit- I really don't understand ultra light backpacking, maybe so day I'll try it lol 😂
Thanks for the comment! Yeah I've been interested in trying out a rectangular pad at some point and see if I'm more comfortable.
I don’t know, I toss and turn all night (at home too) and I feel that a quilt is better than a bag simply because it doesn’t restrict my movement. I made a DIY quilt which is wider and probably as light as the best on the market, plus I sleep in a hammock, so that’s probably why I never had an issue with cold 🤷🏼
Thanks for the comment! Yeah I suspect that the hammock plays a role, but it seems to really depend on the person. Thanks for watching!
"Two is one and one is none"
This is a dangerous maxim because if taken too literally can result in "I take twice as much gear as I need to".
It took me a while to realises that I should just check with my camping buddy to see what he is taking. If my stove breaks I can use his. Even better, Ill just use his stove and gas, and instead Ill take a tiny little hex stove as backup.
FYI with foam mattresses, not all are created equal.
I recently discovered that a lot of armies that train and operate in cold climates have their own arctic version of the foam mat. Its still insanely light, but its 2cm thick.
Its incredibly comfortable and you could literally sleep on a frozen lake and be warm
Thanks for the comment!
That's good advice! I think in most cases, a broken piece of gear without a backup won't kill us, and may not even affect our trip all that much. To be clear, I'm not saying one should wander out 7 days into the backcountry in the middle of blizzard unprepared - what I am saying is that for the type of 3 season backpacking that most people do, a broken stove or punctured air pad isn't going to end their life (again, in mild 3 season conditions.)
Yeah I've heard of several folks using foam in snow, including Andrew Skurka. Apparently you can often get away with it because snow is such a good insulator that you don't need as high of an R-value as you would with bare ground. I've been wanting to try it out!
@@timbschwartz Well said sir, and thank you.
My rule of thumb is that a piece of practical equipment can only be tested in a practical setting. Everything looks great when looking online or in videos, it’s only why you use it you get a real sense of what does or doesn’t work, ‘trial and error’ 😊 I also say ‘a piece of kit is only as good as the individual using it’
That's a great rule to have! Thanks so much for watching and commenting!
for the air pad feeling like "you're tense" I feel that too, like I'm balancing all night. For me I under inflate my pad and pillow it makes me get the sink in I'm looking for
Thanks for the tip, Andrew! I've tried under inflating in the past, but maybe I just need to mess with it more.
@@timbschwartz tbh I keep going back to my ridgecrest I do want to try the 1/8th pad for my ul set up
Sounded like Brandon Faris cursing that crow out at 10:20 ish 😂
Really good points. And that jacket looks incredible! What is it called?
Thanks for watching! I don't think they make it anymore, but the style code says its The North Face Apex Risor. Highly recommend a softshell if you don't own one - Arteryx makes good ones.
@@timbschwartz I own several softshell jackets, but none of them look as good as yours. They keep me warm, though. Yours look almost like a leather jacket while being as comfortable as a softshell can be.
i taken the up the responsibility of the water of a group camping trip, ended up with almost ten ltrs of water plus gear and it was the most grueling trip of my life though the actual camp was greatfun however i now just remind everyone to bring their own agua
That sounds brutal! Good on you for toughing it out, but 10L of water is rough haha.
@@timbschwartz it’s those experiences you learn from hahahaha top notch content bro
Thanks so much!
Even when a tarp and bivy or mesh house weighs close to the same as a light weight tent, it can be so much more affordable. A silnylon tarp and bug bivy you can get a reliable set up for under 200bucks. A tent close to that weight that you feel good about and is reliable is at least double the price. I think that is a really important part of the tarp question. It is more affordable and accessible. Plus with a few youtube videos you can learn important outdoors skills like knots.
Solid point! That's actually a big part of why I started tarp camping in the first place - it was light AND cheap. Well, cheap before I started buying fancy DCF tarps.
Interesting, everyone has different needs. I'm going back to foam after decades, worked best for me up to -8°C or maybe even -12. Tyvek ground sheet and big 3x3 diagonal tarp (tents forbidden here), easiest to deploy fast and comfortable in rain. As sleeping bag I stick to my very old Tyin Winter regardless of the season, sometimes used as a quilt, no bivvy. For water at least 0,5 l or 2-3l if no refill is possible and depending on the work I have to do on location. Bugs are still an issue, spray and candles are helping to reduce the annoyance by 75%. Not light but I just like it that way and very reliable gear.
Thanks so much for sharing some of your setup! Just checked out the Tyin - looks indestructible!
@@timbschwartzYes I have one of the models before Ajungilak was bought by Mammut with long zipper at the side. I think I bought it in the late 90s, quality and comfort is similar to the Carinthia we used in the airforce, maybe even better regarding the time this one is lasting. It lost a little bit of R-value but still enough for german winters.
At 68ish with 24 years of backpacking, I have been down the go lite trail. I can go lite..or let's say lighter, but in my age group leaving my camp chair at home is not an option. I have scales and I'll weigh the pack before I head out. In theory my goal is 35 pounds. Not speaking for all section hikers but at 68 ish comfort at the end of the day is a priority and I sit more than I walk. (Note: I junk anything I didn't use on the last hike to help cut weight)
Thanks for sharing! I love the note on getting ride of anything you didn't use on the last hike - I do the same thing.
Picking a tent site because it’s “pretty” and avoiding “bugs and people”. Relatable. 😄
Seriously, I prefer late autumn or winter to avoid the bugs and people issues. Plus it’s pretty.
Fall and Winter are where it's at! Thanks so much for watching!
As far as water goes, if you don't anticipate a water source on your hike drink a good bit BEFORE you hike. On over nights or long hikes take a water filter. There are other factors but a water filter is a great asset to carry.
Great point! I should note that I pretty much always have a filter on me.
@@timbschwartz and a very good idea.
I only use 25 inch wide Pads . Started with Mummy bags , and that never gave me comfort and good sleep. I recommend wide Sleeping pads :)
Thanks for the tip! I should pick on up at some point.
1) I toss and turn and I can't do sleeping bags that I stubbornly kept buying. The compressed side of it would sometimes be on top of me, as well as the hoody trying to suffocate me. Zen Bivy system solved that problem...2) Foam Pads are like Altras...just about everyone complains about them ( uncomfortable and/or cold, and durability issues in case of the shoes)...yet, what's a thru hike without those? At least judging from the videos...
Oh nice! Glad to hear you're liking your zenbivy. I saw they recently rolled out a really light model.
Good point! I suppose the misery is part of the fun :)
I carry a sawyer, used to have a BeFree, and I still carry way too much water. I don't know why, but I just don't trust water filtration for more than an emergency.
Whatever makes you feel most comfortable! All that matters is that you're having a good time and being safe.
After I sunk over 400 Bucks into Sleeping Bags I realized; always have a good, thick sleeping matt. So much more important.
Wool Plankets are for me outside of extreme Conditions normal. So down to ~ -5°C, a good wool blanket and a Thermarest matt which is rated for down to -10°C and I'm ok'ish, yet nowadays I primarly camp in the summer/fall/spring and around ~0°C for a couple of hours in the night, its really ok.
But(t!) I'm capable to sleep in a tent with a planket even if the sun is up. Which is a huge plus.
Wow, a wool blanket! Good on you - I should give that a try sometime. I have an old GI blanket from my grandfather floating around somewhere. Thanks for watching!
@@timbschwartz Yeah, I just realized that by accident when I left my sleeping bag at home and had an old army (Bundeswehr) blanket (which is partly synthetic) on the back seat (Was just a festival).
And with sleeping bag, I always wake up one or two hours after sun rise which is here around ~7 o'clock in the morning.
Because it was too hot with sleeping bag, and too cold without it (because, well, I mean I just wear underwear because it rained and everything was wet).
And with a blanket, idk ... Even if its a little hotter in the tent, I still manage to sleep a couple of hours longer.
You get the comfy feeling of ... well, a blanket which I just enjoy, but you can still manage the "heat" better in your sleep. Like at home, in your bed.
I just mentioned wool blankets, because wool can keep you warm even if its wet. Basically every blanket will do which is thick enough to keep you warm.
Yeah Totally ,Exactly! Quilts?? ...when in rhe Scouts ( Scotland ) we took my Grans Patchwork Quilts Heavy Stuff !...We progressed To light Sleeping bags ( inexpensive )and in Winter put two together one inside the Other - Felt like we'd conquered Everest ...Eventually Got a Job and constantly upgraded I have Four Bags now and Three NZ Fairydowns plus Pertex outers on Two ...They all come apart to form "Grannies Quilt" though lacking the Colour of the Patches ( though red and blue Duct Tape has been used occassionally )
This Issue with the Ties on a Quilt can be Solved with D ouble sided Velcro or even Sturdy Clothes pegs ...I use Steel sprung ones 😉🦕⚜️🐣
As for Tarps they come.in Handy in the Tropics during the Monsoon🎏👍
Thanks so much for watching, Jeremy!
It's funny I am into this subject even though I am 64 with shot knees, making my ability to get in and out of a tent difficult to say the least. From looking around I put together the start of my imaginary light set up, keeping in mind I like a little room because I am broad shouldered: Trangia cooking set (burns spirits): 1.6 lbs., Elite survival systems 23 degree survival bag 2.15 lbs, Matis Ultralight Tent 2 Person 2.6 pounds (only $220!), Thermarest RidgeRest Classic Sleeping Pad R2 rated, large 25" wide ! 1.3 pounds. Throw in a Lifetstraw with collapsable 1 liter container. 8 ounces fuel container. Folding saw or small hatchet. Freeze dried food. The other usual suspects...
Thanks for the comment! Sounds like you're got yourself a pretty solid setup! I love my Trangia.
I was talking with a friend today where I literally told him, I just really don’t care about weight anymore. So my tent weighs 5 pounds, cool! I’m gonna go sleep in the forest. Ha ha! Loved this Tim!
Haha! Yeah I mean at some point we need to accept that reducing base weight beyond a certain point is more a hobby in itself, with diminish returns. Enjoy that tent - probably a palace!
A big misconception about quilts is that they’re going to save weight. They aren’t. They’re just a different design. If you want to, you can close them up underneath you. They have the exact same amount of material as the average sleeping bag.
The common recommendation, however, is for people that toss and turn at night to use quilt rather than sleeping bags. It’s interesting that your experience was different.
Yeah I'm learning that I may be a bit of an odd duck in the fact that they don't work for me as an active sleeper. That said, all things being equal I have found them to be slightly lighter due to the lack of a zipper. We're talking like an ounce, though.
It all boils down to being sensible and safe. Looking/being cool comes at many costs and isn't worth it in the end.
Well said!
Std air pads are too narrow. As a back sleeper my arms uncomfortably hang off the sides of the air pads. I now use a wide Klymit air pad that I shortened. Also I partially deflate the air pad which feels better for me.
I have noticed that my feet and arms like to fall off, so I need to keep them crossed. I'll check out that pad - thanks for the comment!
Excellent video.
Thanks for the kind words! I'm glad you enjoyed it!
Agree to stop throwing more money at the problem. We don’t need to keep buying the same stuff every year to save a few hundreds grams. This was funny, watching you react to all the things out in nature, how dare those crows and planes and hikers happen 😂. Also, how do you have a hot coffee on your hike… did you just walk 5 minutes down the path? My husband is always trying to work out how to tarp only…. But has only got as far as tent inner, with a tarp overhead. Tents are great 😊
So glad you enjoyed it! The spot where I like to film is only like 100 yards from a parking lot - that way I can easily move gear in and out if I'm filming something with multiple tents, for instance. Plus, hot coffee.
As far as tarps go, it's really just a matter of committing to it for a trip - it usually works out just fine as long as you're not picking a time of year with a real danger of freezing to death or something like that. I used one exclusively for year, its just not optimal in all situations.
Thanks so much for watching!
Thought I was the only weird guy who just cannot enjoy airpads, including those said to be "very comfortable". I had to go with self-inflatable pads as the lightest option for me if I want to have good sleep in backcountry. ~1 Lbs penalty and bulky but just have to give in.
Nope, there's at least one more weird person out there :) I used self inflatables as a kid but admittedly haven't done so in probably 15 years or so. Maybe I'll give them another try - I think I have a ProLite floating around.