As a Ducati mechanic, I will say this is very informative. Despite what people think, they actually aren't much more difficult to work on. The cam belts take maybe an hour. They are super easy to get to. The valve adjustments aren't any more difficult than typical valves. Just a little more time consuming.
Razor, just bought a late mdl Ducati ST2 and I love its looks and sound... One quick question though--I have the dry clutch and want 2 get the corrigated open clutch cover 4 the look and sound. Any problems with these? Thx, Brent
The only time you should have a problem is if you forgot to tie your shoes, or if you ride in the winter. The road salt can cause problems. I have an 02 ST2 and I use the close cover in the winter to prevent it. Other than that, it is beneficial to use an open cover. It allows air to get in and cool the plates since there isn't any oil to do it. Depending on the cover you get, you can even inspect the wear without removing anything. It will make the clanking sound a lot louder though. Personally, I love it but not everyone feels the same way.
Ducati is the only motorcycle (other than Harley...) that I don't have to see to know what I'm hearing. The bike has a sound all it's own, and is simply unmistakable for any other. Beautiful machine!
I'm not a mechanic, I was an English major in college. I acquired a 2001 Yamaha Roadstar 1600 5 years ago. Because I was not so very happy with the service the bike got at various dealerships, I decided to breakdown the bike to its individual pieces and service the bike myself. I started at the rear tire and swing arm and am moving my way forward. The engine itself scares me. But I'm determined to have it sitting on my work bench in a couple of months when I'll start poking it with screw drivers and wrenches. And, that's why these videos are valuable to me. Take away the mystery, and I'm comfortable working on the bike. Thanks for the videos.
In response to Felix's post: it might have been on this channel, the suggestion to bag and label everything that I do do that. I take photos galore; I'd take videos, but editing would be an effort. All the parts are boxed-up and labeled. And, I'm happy to boast that I've gone broke buying (investing in) tools.
I've been wrenching on bikes for 11 years since I was 16. my $0.02, get a good set of tools and a paperback repair manual. also, working in a comfortable, well lit setting is key. headlamps, box fan, case of cold beer, whatever floats your boat. working on a bike with a clear mind will make you do better work. happy wrenching 👍🏻
@ Paul/ Quoting thatallredheaddude 1 working on a bike with a clear mind will make you do better work. Then do not have a case of beer cold or otherwise. That is a recipe for disaster. save that beer for after.
Ducati was the first bike I lusted for. It was the Desmo valve system that captured my heart. Back in 1969, the 350cc ducati single cylinder was beyond my budget. Ten years later, Ducati dealership couldn't be found in Thaialnd. Now I proudly own a 939 SuperSport S.
Much of what Ari outlines here is what fuels the passion many Ducati owners have for their machines. Working on them as an owner is a fulfilling experience. Riding one that you’ve successfully worked on is another level of pleasure. Some of my greatest highs (and lows...yes Ducati electrical circa ‘01 I’m looking at you) over the last 6 years have come from my relationship with a ‘01 748 and ‘02 750 Monster.
During the second Desmo service on my Multi the tech brought me back and we talked about the Desmo valvetrain - was very cool to see it on my bike (after 36,000 miles) and have some of the details of operation explained by an expert. It's a very reliable drivetrain - as long as you keep up with service.
Well of course. If you tear every motor apart and adjust or replace parts to compensate for wear, of course it will be reliable. That doesn't mean it's designed well. If it can go 15k between checks vs another bike of same performance that can go 25k, strictly speaking that makes it actually less reliable.
As a Ducati owner for the past 22 years (that's how long I've had my 23 year old 900SS) I knew how the valves worked, but still learned a lot from this video, thanks.
oh yes, I was lazy to try to understand this, but you made it quick and easy, and still put it in a historical context, great! I have a Ducati Scrambler.
As a former Ducati owner who was taught how to adjust the valves on my 900*, I commend you for your clear anf thorough explanation of the system. *I only did it once and it took three days but it did save me $500!! Replaced it with a Bandit 1200...much easier valve adjustments =D
Ah, but doesn't that Bandit 1200 have 7500-mile intervals and 16 valves?!? I had a B600, and I recall adjusting the valves in a parking lot (while on a road trip) in New Mexico. It was a stressful afternoon.
Ha! Point taken! It was an annual thing for me. Did manage to crack a valve cover once because I missed a gasket. And that other time I missed a gasket and had oil pumping out of a spark plug hole =D
3:58.... the last time i hear of a valve spring breaking was when my 2018 aprilia rsv4 grenaded earlier this year... its definitely not a non existent issue.
Also, the valve travel distance can be longer, because valve spring binding is eliminated and therefore resulting in better volumetric efficiency (breathing). This works in concert with a larger diameter valve and a longer stroke when compared to high revving "valve spring" engines.
I met one of the engineers at Ducati factory and they moved on Pass this old tech and now are on the way for the future of electro-magnet valve operation.
Amazing video, and for all those comments about reliability, I have my 750ss (2002) for three years now, and never had a trouble with valve timing, never had to take it to the dealer to deal with anything related with valves and the bike works great! love the mechanical sound and I use it a lot is almost my daily commuter except on rainy days.
It is a common misconception that opening a stiff valve spring wastes a lot of energy. Yes...it DOES take effort to open the valve, but then the valve pushes back against the cam which returns all of the stored energy save for a little bit lost via friction. Anyone who has ever set the valves knows that as you rotate the engine by hand it will resist until it reaches a certain point then jump ahead as the springs push the cams forward. The Desmo system still has friction so it's advantage over modern valve springs is minimal if any.
Actually the DESMO potion indeed comes from the Greek word ''Δεσμός'' (pronounced THe-smόs) though it does not translate as "controlled" but as "bonded" or "tied" e.g. linked together. The DROMIC portion also indeed comes from the Greek work "Δρόμος" (pronounced THrό-mos) which can be translated as "track" but in practical terms means "road" or IMHO in this case, "fast movement". And truly, Ducati's method is nothing else but the tied, linked fast movement of the valves with the cam.
I watched this a couple years ago, but after buying a Monster 1200s today, I thought a refresher was in order. My first Ducati after always shying away from the dreaded maintenance and reliability woes. Turns out they actually took this seriously, and my 2019 should be (hopefully) not much less reliable than the Japanese bikes I've always preferred. I'll be interested to see which has more problems; my recently purchased 2021 Husqvarna FE501S, or the 2019 Monster 1200S... Hopefully they are both flawless, because, damn, they make all the Japanese bikes I've owned feel stale.
The best part of the desmo is the sound. I love the metal clicking noise that ducati's desmodromic distributions make when running. Every time I clearly hear it at a red light it reminds me just how exotic and unique ducati motorcycles are and I kind of miss it when I ride something else. It makes me feel I have a unique motorcycle with its own character.
Redheaddude: I'm with you. My bike is in the living room. That's my shop now ....great lighting, air-conditioned, food and cold beer right there in the kitchen. Plus, three work benches in the back yard. I am a happy dude.
As you probably know,the Panigale range uses chains and gears instead of belts,I've got an 1198 and the power spread is incredible,I think the Italian firms are willing to push the performance envelope that bit further possibly at the expense of long term longevity but when it came to V twins Ducati were the very pinnacle.
Oh yeah, would love a good quality instructional Desmo-service video, I've got a valve timing adjustment coming next week on my S4RT, would love to do it on my own some day!
The aircooled Desmodue is about as far as DIYers get on valve service. The Testastretta (Multistrada, Super Sport, Monster 1200, Hyperstrada, X Diavel, and older superbikes) and Desmoquattro (Panigale) are considered largely too complex with too difficult access to DIY the valve service.
I got a multistrada 1200 a year ago this winter and 19.000 miles later I will check the valves. Found a very good utube how to. Google multistrada valve adjustment.! Desmo not that big of a deal, 3 Ducati, 400.000 + miles 😎🏍🏍🍺
I've tried googling "DIY desmo service for Multistrada" and mostly what I've found are lots of forum threads where people have given up on trying to DIY the desmo service on the Multi, it is apparently almost as bad as doing the service on a Panigale.
I would like to see a series explaining differences between engine types, why its being used and what various technologies do. I would love to also have an explanation of the new suzuki gsxr VVT system :)
The biggest reason to do desmo at this point is so your large displacement V-twin can run large, heavy valves, and still rev like a proper motorbike engine. Rather than something lazy like a HD engine. Same if not more displacement than a Duc engine, but half the HP per litre of displacement, half the redline and less low end torque.
Other manufacturers make big V-twins that rev just about as high, with regular springs. The only advantage to desmodromic valves is it ensures there will be no valve float - that's it.
'93 900ss owner bought new here. Great vid Ari... I've done about 12 valve checks/adjustments on my 2 valve. Pro Itialia in LA put out a VCR (remember those?) video on how to do a 2 valve demo tune-up. Watched it every time before going to work on the bike. There are over 300 shim sizes and I still had to hand polish a few into spec clearance. Old and worn out now, I'm done with doing any more but I've enjoyed over 40,000 miles of joyful Duck noises from Canada to S. Cali. and most curvy roads in between. Quack!
I own a '91 900 SS and honestly it is IMHO no different to any other Bike I've owned over the years , it is for all intents and purposes similar to any re maintenance . IF an owner is wanting the Prestige of owning a great marque and he is prepared to pay the premium service charges then so be it . In reality learning about your own bikes heritage and maintenance is a wise move , and I for one can honestly say that I seriously doubt that my general maintenance costs either in Parts or time is any different to any other bike I have owned. The big secret is having the correct clearance BUT once set there is little wear or impact that effects the Valve or the Valve seat. That is the beauty of this system , and why the Cam belts generally do not suffer any where near like those that are largely under load all the time driving against spring loads . Honestly the Desmodromic Valve System was great innovation at the time it was conceived, and was a revolution for the times. But as stated metallurgy has come a long way since it's inception particularly Valve springs , given the time that this valve system was conceived and the mechanical constraints that needed to be overcome at the time. Now while so many of the issues of the day have largely ceased to exist the general simplicity of the Desmodromic Valve operation is still just as valid today as when first introduced .
mozzmann my most expensive outlay to maintain my m900 is tires. Its a1996 and I have owned it since new and havent put anything into it other than regular maintenance which I do myself
Hi Ari, I ride a Ducati and know how the Desmo works. This is a great review and now my go to way to explain it to other people, Keep up the great work, Cheers,
Stellar as usual, Ari. Insulting also when you infer that Duc owners don't know Desmo or how to turn our own wrenches on our own machines. This video is for the newbs that don't know jac and will ride the most faddest bike in look-at-me colors, constantly touching the rev limiter for no reason than more attention. Stop it peeps. You're making us all look bad.
Coolest part of this video is between @0:01 & @6:25 I actually really liked the History aspect of this vod... Thnx Ari, Thnx Zach, and thnx other dude & unsung heroes or MM! I forgot your name, I'm sorry bro. :[
Years ago, they were a symphony of metallic clatter, that's for sure. Air-cooled are naturally much more noisy engines in any brand, specified clearances in opening and closing cams means a tapping noise in normal operation, and adding the dry clutch tech that they used to use? Bucket of bolts.
Desmo service is a bit steep... but at the new service intervals it really doesn't amount to much more compared to all the other costs of ownership. It's about $400 more ($1000-$1200 vs. $600-$800) than a Japanese sportbike major service - but only needs to be done every 15-18k miles - that 5-6 per 100k or (likely less than $2k over the full life of the bike). Not really something people who aren't scared of the purchase price are going to worry about.
Love Ducs,Don't own one,not scared,gearhead...When I was a kid in the 50's my dad had several.I was just a little kid, but I remember running my hand over the hand formed aluminum tank and thinking how beautiful the candy-apple red and bronze tanlk was.
Great talk, much more detailed than 99% other videos on the topic. I think Ducati still has some usages where desmodromic cams give them advantage. Desmosedici is still the most powerful MotoGP bike (no power loss for pneumatic springs) and Panigale V4 is probably the only street legal >=liter bike hitting 15000 rpm.
Really good summary here. This is a few years old, but still relevant. 18K mile Desmo service interval for my 937 Testastretta...honestly not too bad 🤷♂
2010 was the last time I heard (of) a valve spring breaking. In MY GSXR1000RR. Bouncing off the Rev limiter at around 17k indicated. How does it sound? It sounds VERY expensive!!! A WOMP. A TINKLING. Then that noise the Millenium Falcon makes when it won’t make the jump to light-speed. The rising piston snapped the valve in two. I stood at the roadside and wept.....
A top video. You really got a load of content in there well. I'm approaching the 30,000km service on my hyper and plan to DIY the service. Sure it may take me longer but hey, half the fun of a motorbike is dismantling it right? Keep the good vids coming. My favourite of all time is the scrambler vs scrambler adventure.
desmo was the reason why I've never owned a Ducati, but then, I was raised on tales of what a chore it was to have to grind the shims to the correct thickness for a routine valve adjustment, perhaps I should have a look at a modern Duck.
I believe the Desmo-Drom cam timing also compensates for the gravitational variation on the L-twin heads, a normal spring-driven valves would behave differently at high rpm due to their angles.
I literally just did my video the other day on whether I think Ducati makes a good every day rider, my answer was a 2 part answer. I said no for older models, yes for newer models. Even the Panigale stretched their services out to 15k on the Desmo service. That is impressive for a motor that live that high in the rev range. I went to tech school for Ducati, and do all my own services on my bike. This cuts the cost way down because I only pay for parts. Feel free to check me out guys, thanks in advance.
May be getting in contact with you if you don't mind. May need to pick your brain in the future. Going to attempt valve adjustment on my 1199r in 4 thousand miles. Got any idea where I can get a dealer manual?
thanks MC Garage. in the late 70s a friend had a Ducati. and of course i read up on the valve train. but on his the carb for the front cyl would back fire at times. we think this was cause the carb sat at an angle. i was getting ready to modifie the front float but he crashed it.
Friend had complete titanium valve break caused by a valve spring failure in his 16k km yamaha r1 2005. Valve fell into cylinder blocked the engine, broke the piston and bent the conrod. It was a very expensive repair. I will chose desmo any time. I do all the maintanence for my ducs by myself. It is not a rocket science...people are just lazy a.f. nowadays. Even a monkey should do a cambelt change, there are tons of quality, dumb proof videos and pdf docs out there. Also it is not true desmo is just a tradition in these days, just try any other v2 bikes and you’ll see, the torque curve of a ducati desmo is second to none.
Good video! Does the new V4 engine use desmodronic valves as well? I am thinking very seriously about buying a Ducati Hypermotard 939 SP I just love the look and the design of them. I have seen so much negativity about these bikes and Ducatis in general that it is it is very refreshing to read and watch some positive stuff about them. Thanks! Good
My money says the pending V4 R model will be the place where Ducati finally leverages the primary advantage of their valve train. If they want to make power similar to that of the base/S despite losing some displacement they're probably gonna have to add revs; a good few revs.
What is MV Agusta talking about when they say their engines have "radial valves". I asked a MV Agusta rep at Laguna Seca once and he didn't even know. I remember reading that it had a radial valve motor but I've never understood what that meant. Is it different operationally or is it just the arrangement like a Yamaha 5 valve or something? P.S. That Monster 1200R is breaking my heart, I just pulled out of buying one after getting approved and insurance lined up. :(
MV Agusta's radial valve does not actually refer to the difference in shape themselves, but the way they are positioned in the cylinder head. It's basically similar to HEMI.
Ari! All of the new 1200 testastretta motors have an 18k miles desmo service interval, including the monster 1200 on your bench, and even the 2014+ models!
Absolutely right. I used to grind & lap 100's of opening & closing shims,all marked ready to go into a set of heads. Never a problem getting them to adjust just right & reassembly back on the engine.
Read the full breakdown of Ducati's Desmo valve train on Motorcyclist: www.motorcyclistonline.com/ducati-desmodromic-valve-timing-demystified/
As a Ducati mechanic, I will say this is very informative. Despite what people think, they actually aren't much more difficult to work on. The cam belts take maybe an hour. They are super easy to get to. The valve adjustments aren't any more difficult than typical valves. Just a little more time consuming.
May need to pick your brain too. In the future if that would be ok.
I personally still think desmodramic valve actuation is still superior, More accurate, quicker, more efficient, probably more reliable too
Razor, just bought a late mdl Ducati ST2 and I love its looks and sound... One quick question though--I have the dry clutch and want 2 get the corrigated open clutch cover 4 the look and sound. Any problems with these? Thx, Brent
The only time you should have a problem is if you forgot to tie your shoes, or if you ride in the winter. The road salt can cause problems. I have an 02 ST2 and I use the close cover in the winter to prevent it. Other than that, it is beneficial to use an open cover. It allows air to get in and cool the plates since there isn't any oil to do it. Depending on the cover you get, you can even inspect the wear without removing anything. It will make the clanking sound a lot louder though. Personally, I love it but not everyone feels the same way.
I've heard that sound on Duc's n its awesome! As of yet I haven't ordered one though. Is Ebay good? I buy Mercedes parts from them all the time..
Ducati is the only motorcycle (other than Harley...) that I don't have to see to know what I'm hearing. The bike has a sound all it's own, and is simply unmistakable for any other. Beautiful machine!
Not anymore...
I'm not a mechanic, I was an English major in college. I acquired a 2001 Yamaha Roadstar 1600 5 years ago. Because I was not so very happy with the service the bike got at various dealerships, I decided to breakdown the bike to its individual pieces and service the bike myself.
I started at the rear tire and swing arm and am moving my way forward.
The engine itself scares me. But I'm determined to have it sitting on my work bench in a couple of months when I'll start poking it with screw drivers and wrenches.
And, that's why these videos are valuable to me. Take away the mystery, and I'm comfortable working on the bike.
Thanks for the videos.
Take photos before disasembly and put everything like screws etc into little bags and mark tem
In response to Felix's post: it might have been on this channel, the suggestion to bag and label everything that I do do that. I take photos galore; I'd take videos, but editing would be an effort. All the parts are boxed-up and labeled.
And, I'm happy to boast that I've gone broke buying (investing in) tools.
I've been wrenching on bikes for 11 years since I was 16. my $0.02, get a good set of tools and a paperback repair manual. also, working in a comfortable, well lit setting is key. headlamps, box fan, case of cold beer, whatever floats your boat. working on a bike with a clear mind will make you do better work. happy wrenching 👍🏻
@ Paul/ Quoting thatallredheaddude 1 working on a bike with a clear mind will make you do better work. Then do not have a case of beer cold or otherwise. That is a recipe for disaster. save that beer for after.
Complete Nonsense.
Superb explanation of Desmo timing, I've gone from wtf is that to looking forward to impressing my mates down the pub. Thanks a lot.
Ducati was the first bike I lusted for. It was the Desmo valve system that captured my heart. Back in 1969, the 350cc ducati single cylinder was beyond my budget. Ten years later, Ducati dealership couldn't be found in Thaialnd. Now I proudly own a 939 SuperSport S.
Much of what Ari outlines here is what fuels the passion many Ducati owners have for their machines. Working on them as an owner is a fulfilling experience. Riding one that you’ve successfully worked on is another level of pleasure. Some of my greatest highs (and lows...yes Ducati electrical circa ‘01 I’m looking at you) over the last 6 years have come from my relationship with a ‘01 748 and ‘02 750 Monster.
During the second Desmo service on my Multi the tech brought me back and we talked about the Desmo valvetrain - was very cool to see it on my bike (after 36,000 miles) and have some of the details of operation explained by an expert. It's a very reliable drivetrain - as long as you keep up with service.
Well of course. If you tear every motor apart and adjust or replace parts to compensate for wear, of course it will be reliable.
That doesn't mean it's designed well. If it can go 15k between checks vs another bike of same performance that can go 25k, strictly speaking that makes it actually less reliable.
As a Ducati owner for the past 22 years (that's how long I've had my 23 year old 900SS) I knew how the valves worked, but still learned a lot from this video, thanks.
Nice! That's great to hear, thanks Trevor.
oh yes, I was lazy to try to understand this, but you made it quick and easy, and still put it in a historical context, great! I have a Ducati Scrambler.
Hypermotard owner here! Thanks for the easy to follow explanation!
As a former Ducati owner who was taught how to adjust the valves on my 900*, I commend you for your clear anf thorough explanation of the system.
*I only did it once and it took three days but it did save me $500!! Replaced it with a Bandit 1200...much easier valve adjustments =D
Ah, but doesn't that Bandit 1200 have 7500-mile intervals and 16 valves?!? I had a B600, and I recall adjusting the valves in a parking lot (while on a road trip) in New Mexico. It was a stressful afternoon.
Ari Henning
Why didn't you do it before the trip? I didn't take you for a slacker with poor decision making. :P
It was a 20,000-mile trip. I had to do it twice while I was on the road ;)
Ha! Point taken! It was an annual thing for me. Did manage to crack a valve cover once because I missed a gasket. And that other time I missed a gasket and had oil pumping out of a spark plug hole =D
Thats a story I'd like to hear about! Did you ever write any articles about it? Archived anywhere?
3:58.... the last time i hear of a valve spring breaking was when my 2018 aprilia rsv4 grenaded earlier this year... its definitely not a non existent issue.
Wow that's rotten luck..
The Ford 6.2L V8 is a known to eat valve springs as well. It doesn’t even rev very high.
*sweats in Tuono V4*
Wow, I'm assuming aprilia covered the work?
Also, the valve travel distance can be longer, because valve spring binding is eliminated and therefore resulting in better volumetric efficiency (breathing). This works in concert with a larger diameter valve and a longer stroke when compared to high revving "valve spring" engines.
I met one of the engineers at Ducati factory and they moved on Pass this old tech and now are on the way for the future of electro-magnet valve operation.
Frenchy Moto 87 any link?
Whatever the tech is... Ducatis are one of a kind... Lovely to hear them... I will be owning of them very soon
did you pull the trigger on a duc?
Good luck
@@SirSpinalColumn not yet dude probably 2022
Got it . Before this i did not know that Desmodromic Valve Timing exist. All thanks to Ari.
The beauty of Desmo heads is the fact they allow the engine to rev without valve bouncing. Just pure simplicity!
Amazing video, and for all those comments about reliability, I have my 750ss (2002) for three years now, and never had a trouble with valve timing, never had to take it to the dealer to deal with anything related with valves and the bike works great! love the mechanical sound and I use it a lot is almost my daily commuter except on rainy days.
It is a common misconception that opening a stiff valve spring wastes a lot of energy. Yes...it DOES take effort to open the valve, but then the valve pushes back against the cam which returns all of the stored energy save for a little bit lost via friction. Anyone who has ever set the valves knows that as you rotate the engine by hand it will resist until it reaches a certain point then jump ahead as the springs push the cams forward. The Desmo system still has friction so it's advantage over modern valve springs is minimal if any.
Actually the DESMO potion indeed comes from the Greek word ''Δεσμός'' (pronounced THe-smόs) though it does not translate as "controlled" but as "bonded" or "tied" e.g. linked together. The DROMIC portion also indeed comes from the Greek work "Δρόμος" (pronounced THrό-mos) which can be translated as "track" but in practical terms means "road" or IMHO in this case, "fast movement". And truly, Ducati's method is nothing else but the tied, linked fast movement of the valves with the cam.
This is a more accurate information for the word desmodromic:)
I watched this a couple years ago, but after buying a Monster 1200s today, I thought a refresher was in order. My first Ducati after always shying away from the dreaded maintenance and reliability woes. Turns out they actually took this seriously, and my 2019 should be (hopefully) not much less reliable than the Japanese bikes I've always preferred. I'll be interested to see which has more problems; my recently purchased 2021 Husqvarna FE501S, or the 2019 Monster 1200S... Hopefully they are both flawless, because, damn, they make all the Japanese bikes I've owned feel stale.
All the others that tried the desmo could never get the power out of the engines. Ducati is the only company that made it all work.
Just bought a Ducati... what a pleasure to watch...
The best part of the desmo is the sound. I love the metal clicking noise that ducati's desmodromic distributions make when running. Every time I clearly hear it at a red light it reminds me just how exotic and unique ducati motorcycles are and I kind of miss it when I ride something else. It makes me feel I have a unique motorcycle with its own character.
Isn't the metal clicking sound the dry clutch?
Yeah that’s the dry clutch lol
Redheaddude: I'm with you. My bike is in the living room. That's my shop now ....great lighting, air-conditioned, food and cold beer right there in the kitchen. Plus, three work benches in the back yard.
I am a happy dude.
As you probably know,the Panigale range uses chains and gears instead of belts,I've got an 1198 and the power spread is incredible,I think the Italian firms are willing to push the performance envelope that bit further possibly at the expense of long term longevity but when it came to V twins Ducati were the very pinnacle.
Graham Smith how long the service interval for 1198? Is it 7500 miles?
Ducati doesn't make a V twin. They make L twins. Their cylinders are a full 90° apart from each other, not 60° or 45°.
cfltitan L twin is just a fancy name for a 90° V twin, they're the same thing.
I've never seen a letter V with a 90° angle. I think it would probably look like an L.
Being pedantic, the VFR 800 Fi I own should be a Honda LFR800 as it has a 90° L4 engine.
This channel just gets better and better.
Thanks for sharing. After decades of motorcycling... I finally understood Desmo
As always a great vid!
Next vid should be: How to do a Desmo-Service in your own garage! ;)
Oh yeah, would love a good quality instructional Desmo-service video, I've got a valve timing adjustment coming next week on my S4RT, would love to do it on my own some day!
Here's one I watched before doing mine. Best one I've seen. m.th-cam.com/video/9_VEPAwiLB8/w-d-xo.html
The aircooled Desmodue is about as far as DIYers get on valve service. The Testastretta (Multistrada, Super Sport, Monster 1200, Hyperstrada, X Diavel, and older superbikes) and Desmoquattro (Panigale) are considered largely too complex with too difficult access to DIY the valve service.
I got a multistrada 1200 a year ago this winter and 19.000 miles later I will check the valves. Found a very good utube how to. Google multistrada valve adjustment.! Desmo not that big of a deal, 3 Ducati, 400.000 + miles 😎🏍🏍🍺
I've tried googling "DIY desmo service for Multistrada" and mostly what I've found are lots of forum threads where people have given up on trying to DIY the desmo service on the Multi, it is apparently almost as bad as doing the service on a Panigale.
The animation of the Desmo valves provides loads of understanding
Thanks for the great video! This is the best, most succinct overview of Desmo engines I have seen.
I would like to see a series explaining differences between engine types, why its being used and what various technologies do. I would love to also have an explanation of the new suzuki gsxr VVT system :)
Don't own a Ducati but it's Ari and MC Garage therefore like and watch, in that order.
Nice timing, my Multistrada is in the shop this weekend for it’s first desmo service.
The biggest reason to do desmo at this point is so your large displacement V-twin can run large, heavy valves, and still rev like a proper motorbike engine. Rather than something lazy like a HD engine. Same if not more displacement than a Duc engine, but half the HP per litre of displacement, half the redline and less low end torque.
HD motors are a joke.
Other manufacturers make big V-twins that rev just about as high, with regular springs.
The only advantage to desmodromic valves is it ensures there will be no valve float - that's it.
'93 900ss owner bought new here. Great vid Ari... I've done about 12 valve checks/adjustments on my 2 valve. Pro Itialia in LA put out a VCR (remember those?) video on how to do a 2 valve demo tune-up. Watched it every time before going to work on the bike. There are over 300 shim sizes and I still had to hand polish a few into spec clearance. Old and worn out now, I'm done with doing any more but I've enjoyed over 40,000 miles of joyful Duck noises from Canada to S. Cali. and most curvy roads in between. Quack!
Right on Dennis, good on you for tackling the service yourself.
I must say, I always love the way you "hit the point". Very good!
Desmo and dry clutch is what makes a Ducati 😊
Desmodromic technology was actually courtesy of the Maserati brothers who started out racing bikes and making spark plugs.
I own a '91 900 SS and honestly it is IMHO no different to any other Bike I've owned over the years , it is for all intents and purposes similar to any re maintenance . IF an owner is wanting the Prestige of owning a great marque and he is prepared to pay the premium service charges then so be it . In reality learning about your own bikes heritage and maintenance is a wise move , and I for one can honestly say that I seriously doubt that my general maintenance costs either in Parts or time is any different to any other bike I have owned.
The big secret is having the correct clearance BUT once set there is little wear or impact that effects the Valve or the Valve seat. That is the beauty of this system , and why the Cam belts generally do not suffer any where near like those that are largely under load all the time driving against spring loads . Honestly the Desmodromic Valve System was great innovation at the time it was conceived, and was a revolution for the times.
But as stated metallurgy has come a long way since it's inception particularly Valve springs , given the time that this valve system was conceived and the mechanical constraints that needed to be overcome at the time. Now while so many of the issues of the day have largely ceased to exist the general simplicity of the Desmodromic Valve operation is still just as valid today as when first introduced .
mozzmann my most expensive outlay to maintain my m900 is tires. Its a1996 and I have owned it since new and havent put anything into it other than regular maintenance which I do myself
These guys deserves more than 1million subacribers!!!!
Smaller content providers and many more of them rather than just a few giant content providers.
Hi Ari,
I ride a Ducati and know how the Desmo works. This is a great review and now my go to way to explain it to other people,
Keep up the great work,
Cheers,
Glad it gets your approval. Thanks for watching.
Stellar as usual, Ari. Insulting also when you infer that Duc owners don't know Desmo or how to turn our own wrenches on our own machines. This video is for the newbs that don't know jac and will ride the most faddest bike in look-at-me colors, constantly touching the rev limiter for no reason than more attention. Stop it peeps. You're making us all look bad.
Fantastic video. I had no concept of how desmo worked before this.
Very interesting to know. I’m a motorcycle mechanic but never have I had my hands on the internals of a Ducati motor. Enjoyed the video! Thanks!
Coolest part of this video is between @0:01 & @6:25
I actually really liked the History aspect of this vod... Thnx Ari, Thnx Zach, and thnx other dude & unsung heroes or MM! I forgot your name, I'm sorry bro. :[
LITERALLY the James Willems of motorcycles.
As always, love your MC Garage videos. And this was something not known to me. Now I know a few things that make a Ducati unique.
your 0:17 to 0:20 intro sounds like a Ducati
thatallredheadude 1 Lol so your saying they sound like metal clanking and clacking. LOL
Hahaha! The dry clutches Ducati did sound like that!
Years ago, they were a symphony of metallic clatter, that's for sure. Air-cooled are naturally much more noisy engines in any brand, specified clearances in opening and closing cams means a tapping noise in normal operation, and adding the dry clutch tech that they used to use? Bucket of bolts.
savage
This was actually a neat little video. Thank you
Super happy owner of a black stealth Streetfighter 848 from 2012. Thank you for your explanations !
Ari, best motorcycle expect on youtube
From an engineering standpoint desmo valves are so incredibly cool
Very informative vid. Looking at new Monster 821 next year. Desmo service. 35000kms. Way better than the older models for sure
WOW! What a great video! Very simple yet very interesting! I loved the mix of history and mechanics! Awesome video!
This video is an example of why I subscribe to your channel.
Great video. I love Ducati. Coolest thing about them is the desmo valves. The reason I DON'T/WON'T own one? The desmo valves!
Haha,WELL SPOKEN upside downdog!!! Same with me as well!!! :)
$$$$$$$$
N A I L E D I T !
Learn to wrench a little, no big deal. Love my Tre desmo... Cheers
Desmo service is a bit steep... but at the new service intervals it really doesn't amount to much more compared to all the other costs of ownership. It's about $400 more ($1000-$1200 vs. $600-$800) than a Japanese sportbike major service - but only needs to be done every 15-18k miles - that 5-6 per 100k or (likely less than $2k over the full life of the bike). Not really something people who aren't scared of the purchase price are going to worry about.
Please explain engine breaking and rev matching! How does that work? Whats better in which case?
Thx in advance!!
Love Ducs,Don't own one,not scared,gearhead...When I was a kid in the 50's my dad had several.I was just a little kid, but I remember running my hand over the hand formed aluminum tank and thinking how beautiful the candy-apple red and bronze tanlk was.
Lots of good info, great delivery style and length. Keep those videos coming. Greetings from Toronto, Canada.
Ari,you are an ocean of knowledge.
I mostly just like to do research :)
Great talk, much more detailed than 99% other videos on the topic. I think Ducati still has some usages where desmodromic cams give them advantage. Desmosedici is still the most powerful MotoGP bike (no power loss for pneumatic springs) and Panigale V4 is probably the only street legal >=liter bike hitting 15000 rpm.
Really good summary here. This is a few years old, but still relevant. 18K mile Desmo service interval for my 937 Testastretta...honestly not too bad 🤷♂
2010 was the last time I heard (of) a valve spring breaking. In MY GSXR1000RR. Bouncing off the Rev limiter at around 17k indicated. How does it sound? It sounds VERY expensive!!! A WOMP. A TINKLING. Then that noise the Millenium Falcon makes when it won’t make the jump to light-speed. The rising piston snapped the valve in two. I stood at the roadside and wept.....
A top video. You really got a load of content in there well. I'm approaching the 30,000km service on my hyper and plan to DIY the service. Sure it may take me longer but hey, half the fun of a motorbike is dismantling it right? Keep the good vids coming. My favourite of all time is the scrambler vs scrambler adventure.
The desmo valves have a nice sound to them, too!
Is that your personal bike? That Monster 1200 R is simply astounding..
We are really going to miss these videos from @Motorcyclist Magazine even if they were way too overly simple for experienced enthusiasts ..
Great timing. I just got myself an '02 S4!
Thanks for the lecture..never knew about those valves. Only knew about those rattling dry clutches, another thing that makes Ducatis "famous".
Yes, there's a certain irony there 🤔
Outstanding video as usual keep up the great work ARI!!!
As a Ducati owner, I thank you.
Damn.. so far it's 600 likes and 0 dislikes. Nice ratio.
Great info, i learned something today.
desmo was the reason why I've never owned a Ducati, but then, I was raised on tales of what a chore it was to have to grind the shims to the correct thickness for a routine valve adjustment, perhaps I should have a look at a modern Duck.
Cool, I finally know what those Duc owners are talking about :)
I love the way it sounds. Gets my juices goin
I had no idea. That’s cool. I have a new found respect for Ducati now.
Can you a video about how to properly break in a new bike?
I believe the Desmo-Drom cam timing also compensates for the gravitational variation on the L-twin heads, a normal spring-driven valves would behave differently at high rpm due to their angles.
That's in interesting theory, buuuuuut no.
I literally just did my video the other day on whether I think Ducati makes a good every day rider, my answer was a 2 part answer. I said no for older models, yes for newer models. Even the Panigale stretched their services out to 15k on the Desmo service. That is impressive for a motor that live that high in the rev range. I went to tech school for Ducati, and do all my own services on my bike. This cuts the cost way down because I only pay for parts. Feel free to check me out guys, thanks in advance.
May be getting in contact with you if you don't mind. May need to pick your brain in the future. Going to attempt valve adjustment on my 1199r in 4 thousand miles. Got any idea where I can get a dealer manual?
Where the hell are you located ? Massachusetts ?
thanks MC Garage. in the late 70s a friend had a Ducati. and of course i read up on the valve train. but on his the carb for the front cyl would back fire at times. we think this was cause the carb sat at an angle. i was getting ready to modifie the front float but he crashed it.
"When was the last time you've ever heard of a valve spring failure?" You, sir, have never owned a Jeep Liberty...
Lol!
😂🤣
Friend had complete titanium valve break caused by a valve spring failure in his 16k km yamaha r1 2005. Valve fell into cylinder blocked the engine, broke the piston and bent the conrod. It was a very expensive repair. I will chose desmo any time. I do all the maintanence for my ducs by myself. It is not a rocket science...people are just lazy a.f. nowadays. Even a monkey should do a cambelt change, there are tons of quality, dumb proof videos and pdf docs out there. Also it is not true desmo is just a tradition in these days, just try any other v2 bikes and you’ll see, the torque curve of a ducati desmo is second to none.
😂😂😂😂
Awesome explanation of the desmo valves
Good video!
Does the new V4 engine use desmodronic valves as well?
I am thinking very seriously about buying a Ducati Hypermotard 939 SP I just love the look and the design of them. I have seen so much negativity about these bikes and Ducatis in general that it is it is very refreshing to read and watch some positive stuff about them.
Thanks!
Good
Thanks Ari, I'm a new Ducati owner and was not aware of this. Still learning and this is very helpful. You guys are great!!!👍
my friend i hope you have a big bank account or know how to spin a wrench lol welcome to the club enjoy your machine
848 owner. Thank you for explaining this to me 🙂
great video used it to explain to my wife why im always working on my bike lol
Decent time explain for sure ya got here, the desmo valve system is wild for sure!!
The 1078 two valve air cooled is one of the most reliable and maintenance friendly Ducati engines.
My money says the pending V4 R model will be the place where Ducati finally leverages the primary advantage of their valve train. If they want to make power similar to that of the base/S despite losing some displacement they're probably gonna have to add revs; a good few revs.
Can you please explain the advantages and disadvantages of valves actuated with finger followers.
Excited for more vids Ari, keep em commin
Informative, useful And not condescending. Thnx
What is MV Agusta talking about when they say their engines have "radial valves". I asked a MV Agusta rep at Laguna Seca once and he didn't even know. I remember reading that it had a radial valve motor but I've never understood what that meant. Is it different operationally or is it just the arrangement like a Yamaha 5 valve or something? P.S. That Monster 1200R is breaking my heart, I just pulled out of buying one after getting approved and insurance lined up. :(
MV Agusta's radial valve does not actually refer to the difference in shape themselves, but the way they are positioned in the cylinder head. It's basically similar to HEMI.
This article explains it nicely, Rilo is right on it: touringmm.blogspot.com/2011/07/apfelbeck-zylinderkopf.html
Austrian Dude: de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_Apfelbeck
overboost7667 interesting read. Thanks.
Awesome! Thanks for the response guys!
can you guys do a video on Suter 500 vs Ducati V4seciale vs Aprillia RS V4 rf
Ari! All of the new 1200 testastretta motors have an 18k miles desmo service interval, including the monster 1200 on your bench, and even the 2014+ models!
On the old bevel drive engines it was often easier to pull the heads to do valve adjustments.
Absolutely right. I used to grind & lap 100's of opening & closing shims,all marked ready to go into a set of heads. Never a problem getting them to adjust just right & reassembly back on the engine.
Educative video. Learned interesting stuff. Keep these coming. Thanks.
We'll do our best!
Good informative video and also please make a video why do Royal Enfield uses pushrod Technology in overhead cams
Great video!!
I would love it if you could make an video on how to do maintenance on the desmo system