The Last Jedi Novelization: "Opposing Viewpoints" Review
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ธ.ค. 2024
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Two Star Wars fans - both alike in their love of Reylo yet divided by opposing views on The Last Jedi film - discuss Jason Fry's novelization. Spoiler alert: they both loved it! :)
Other than that, they disagree on everything else. Scratch that: they each decry the novel's lack of thigh grab, and neither of them is here for BroomBoi. (Sorry, kid!)
In today's episode we discuss:
-Reylo in The Last Jedi novelization. Have a seat, Harlequin romances - TLJ brings the steamy and over-the-top innuendo for days. Hungry looks, churning emotions, grunts of effort and spitting lightsabers abound.
-FinnRose is awesome, but when it comes to their unexpected kiss haters be hatin' (hello, Lee) and Mary is having none of it.
-We discuss Mr. Twinkle Toes himself: Luke Skywalker's dance scene of doom is explained.
-Mary gushes about Hux, Lee throws shade at Poe for a change, and everyone loves Canady, obvi. Brief discussion of Leia, Snoke, and some thoughts on the TLJ backlash from both sides of the debate.
Today's episode has been tagged for your viewing convenience: the salt is labeled so you can mute or skip ahead.
Stay tuned for more TLJ discussion! Our analysis of visual storytelling in TLJ is coming soon to a galaxy near you.
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Credits:
Speakers: Mary | Lee
Video editing: Lee
Featuring art from Let's Draw Kids: Drawing Chibi Kylo:
• How To Draw Kylo Ren |...
Music Credits:
"Galaxies" by Stellardrone, used with permission. Check out his page to discover more amazing music: stellardrone.b...
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Podcast episodes referenced in today's discussion:
TLJ Novelization: A Tipsy Review FT. The Farce Awakens • The Last Jedi Noveliza...
Literary References in Reylo: Jane Eyre
• Literary References in...
Literary References in Reylo: Pride and Prejudice
• Pride and Prejudice an...
SWC's TLJ Predictions and Wish List
• The Last Jedi | Predic...
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We love to hear your questions and comments!
Contact us at: starwarsconnection09@gmail.com
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Thank you and May the Force be with you!
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Disclaimer: our videos are not monetized and no infringement is intended on the property of Lucasfilm, Disney, Star Wars. All media and artworks are the property of their respective owners.
There are people who have read the novel and don’t see reylo and think it’s a horrible book. They must be blind. There’s no way the book can be any more obvious without it turning into 50 shades.
That's honest word. Funny, when I was a kid seeing it in the theaters and even Empire, some of the "sexual" overtones went right over my head and when I saw it later when I was older, I got it.
Rey and Kylo Ren are the reason Star Wars is still alive, so I hope we get more of those two and not the filler with Finn ,Rose , and Poe , though Benicio del Toro was kwel
I'm here and ready for the tea. #reyloiscanon
I saw in instagram some people saying that rey is the grand daughter of obi-wan 🙄 they can't accept she is a nobody and that reylo is Canon.
I just love how giggly you ladies get over Reylo.
How many innuendos are in the reylo scenes from the novel? I can’t count XD.
Best novel ever lol 😍
Star Wars Connection Yeah. I haven’t read it yet though XD. I’m trying to finish A New Hope lol.
I thought most of the Reylo scenes in the novel were as cold as an Ahch-To stone hut. Fry keeps repeating that Kylo's eyes are "hungry" but very little internal dialogue of what he's conflicted about. The book spent more time describing CAnto-Bite and the laundry room of the Supremacy than the Reylo relationship.
Hi Maria, Fry explained that he couldn't go into detail as to what was going on internally because that is a story for episode IX to tell. It's unfortunate that he had those constraints. :/
Maria. I completely agree with you. It felt cold and almost as if they didn't want to confirm that Kylo and Rey had true feelings for each other. It bothered me to be honest. Why are they trying so hard to NOT confirm REYLO. If that makes sense. I think REYLO is endgame (I REALLY HOPE SO) but it seems that everyone is holding back on the fans for some reason.
Maria Patriot I personally believe they are trying to keep this as secret as possible untill the movie comes out and everyone’s like, “WHAAAA!?” And the Reylos are just like told ya bitch
Not sure if you listened to the audiobook version but I highly recommend it. It’s always interesting to hear the music choice they use in the background. Two key points I want to note are the use of Han Solo and the Princess love theme in the scene where Rey and Kylo are fighting over the lightsaber and Across the Stars love theme when Rey is thinking about Kylo and waiting for the Force to decide his fate. If that’s not a subtle hint at Rey and Kylo ending up together in Ep. IX, I don’t know what is!
Good to know, thanks for the heads up!
I wasn't really prepared to have Kylo and Rey banter back and forth at the moment she arrives in her snow white-mobile. It was a huge risk for her, so I think she was somber but hopeful, and happy to see him, and who knows exactly what he was? Happy to see her, yes, but I still am not sure when he came up with the idea of what he was going to do here. He was probably wondering if she would live another hour, if he would (he still hadn't been re-approved by Snoke), and he had such strong feelings for her already...so for sure he wasn't in a joking mood. The only way I fit it into my head was that it was a very strained, awkward attempt at lightening the moment up for each other, because they both at least knew at that moment that Rey might be killed. idk
Nice to hear from you girls. I anticipate every discuss. Have a nice time :-* Kisses from Poland!
Yeah... Reylo!! Love me some Reylo!!
I’ve honestly given up on most of these videos. There’s so much hate out there. Yours are about the only ones I’ll watch. Thank you for being more upbeat.
My fear is that the writers and producers are going to cave to the haters and destroy what could be really beautiful. Oh well, there’s always fan fiction. :)
Imagine you're Disney and you know that most Star Wars fans, even if they hate the direction the ST went and bitch incessantly, will still buy Episode IX to complete the trilogy on their shelf, just like they did when the prequels came out. Would you a) cave and retcon or b) write the story you foreshadowed and built dramatic tension toward?
Yes! I have been waiting for this for a long long time !
Thank you so much for uploading this video!
May the force be with you, always!
MAY THE FORTH BE WITH YOU!!!!
The book was okay, I do prefer the movie version of Reylo. I for one didn't like what was done to Luke in episode 8 and that is why I can't get on board with hating the character. Even if he was portrayed to think about killing Ben. I don't believe he was sacrificed for Reylo just sacrificed in general. It was just so unnecessary to do that to tell a fulfilling story.
MAY THE 4TH BE WITH YOU GUYS!!! HAPPY STAR WARS DAY!!! :)
What special day! May the force be with you!
Oh man girls, the memes alone are so funny! I was laughing so hard😂😂
Thelma torres Me too!
The gifs are definately a highlight for me too XD
Yes, gifs!
What if Anakin bridged Rey and Kylo's minds?
I personally really wanted to read more from Kylo's POV in the novel. I am greedy and impatient, lol.
I enjoyed listening to this while doing stuff around the house
Vernon Kristov ESL Yup. Here we are, months after this video came out, watching or re-watching it and enjoying it.
Great video nice to see y’all again
I am very hopeful that the final book will be amazing, by then everything will be completely out in the open - we can finally explore the full depth of their inner thoughts and their relationship, without the risk of revealing hidden plot elements anymore. I loved the reylo parts of the movie and still feel disappointed that more of their inner dialogue and feelings were not explored in the novel.
I agree that in the book, his storming into the old resistance base on Crait, teeth bared, was off. It was done better in the movie: him having the guards wait and his slow, deliberate steps, his sinking to the floor, which leads to connecting with Rey when we see his remorseful stare, the almost crying expression when she closes the door. Even the earlier Kylo doesn't go right from rageful anger to something else...lol...usually had to slice or pound some things first.
You know that TH-cam has plenty of comments like, “Ok, she closed the door of the Falcon on him, she’s done with him”. All I can say to them is, “We’ll see when IX comes out.”
A new video from my fav youtube channel and a new chapter on my fav fanfic on the same day? My morning is set, where's my tea?
landscape with a blur of conquerors?
Awesome review! For the most part, I loved the novel. There were a few places where I was hoping for a bit more (the hand touching scene was great, but I wanted more about what each of them actually saw in their visions), but Fry still gave us a lot of good stuff. I didn't particularly like what he did with Rey and Kylo's scenes after their separation either, but I think some of this was the author intentionally holding back a little to prevent Reylo from being even more obvious than it already was (the fact that some are still in denial about it is mind-boggling to me). I agree that the novel did a better job of developing the relationship between Finn and Rose; seeing into her thoughts helped a great deal. Personally, I didn't mind the stuff about the arms dealers selling to both sides, but I can see why it was too much 'on the nose' for many people. I think the meeting between Rey and Poe was put there because they were the only pair of the Big Four (which I define as the Big Three plus Kylo) who had not interacted at all on screen. When she introduces herself and he kind of chuckles "I know," I saw that as him saying "Yeah, you're that girl Finn wouldn't shut up about, sure I've heard of you!"
Finally, I just want to thank you guys for introducing me to The Farce Awakens. That channel is freakin hilarious!
MissLyrata, I like your interpretation of Poe's "I know". I never would have thought of it, but it fits.
going to listen tonight!!!!!!! Thanks guy's!!!!!!
I liked both the movie and the novel for different reasons. I read the novel by listening to the audiobook which is really great because they add sound effects and background music. Also Marc Thompson, the narrator, is so good at doing the voices. When I first saw TLJ, I didn’t really get the Canto Bight scene, but then I realized it was put in there for the political commentary and I think maybe it will be relevant in Ep IX as the Resistance tries to rebuild after almost being decimated, and the challenges they go through. I actually appreciated the political commentary as I feel that every SW movie has some of that thrown in. It gives background for Rose’s reasons for joining the Resistance and for Finn to start seeing how things really are, helping him on the path of joining the cause and stepping out of just thinking about saving himself and Rey. I am disappointed that we didn’t really get to see more of Rey’s and Kylo’s thoughts about each other. I kind of expected it to be vague though because they don’t want to give things away, even though I find that immensely frustrating because the whole point of books is so that we can see deeper into the thought processes of characters versus the visual media where you can’t always get that across. I think Adam and Daisy’s acting did a better job of conveying emotions than the novel did in all their scenes together. Nothing earth shattering that was revealed in the novel but it did help clarify a few things that weren’t all that clear in the movie.
Antheia Gaia I'm glad that I'm not the only one disappointed with the lack of Rey and Kylo's inner thoughts in the book. Heck, I would have been happy just to get a little more of Kylo's POV, Rey or not. I also thought it would have been a good opportunity to add some Leia and Ben thoughts on one another since Carrie has passed.
I don’t find Rose in the least bit intimidating an I’m 5’2. Just too cute and little. I get people of any stature can be intimidating but I never felt that from the portrayal of the character. Always loving the Reylo tho lol
The editing of your podcasts is awesome. It adds so much and the humor is great!:)
Thank you. ^^
I forgot to mention, one thing I really liked about the novel is the extra POV for Leia he put in the book. I found it very poignant and interesting. I think her POV was my favorite.
I preferred the movie Reylo scenes over the book just because the book gave a contradictory point of views than what you see in the movie. They made Kylo Ren more villianous and calculating in the book while in the movie he was more emotionally driven. I liked that the other characters were more fleshed out though, particularly Luke and Hux (I thought Finn and Rose were fine either way). The more I see The Last Jedi, the more I am convinced that half of the issues would be solved if Poe wasn't such a jackass. If the Resistance was a real-life military, Poe either would have been court marshalled or shot for his actions. Overall, I liked The Last Jedi, the book and the movie.
On Finn and girls, one of the things that I've picked up about the First Order is that it seeks to annihilate all sentiment other than loyalty to the group. The Stormtroopers are kidnapped and psychologically abused children with the aim of making their personalities dependent upon obedience. The Officer Corps of the First Order is pathologically aggressive in terms of seeking advancement, with an emphasis on individual success and defeating your rivals.
I expect that relationships between stormtroopers or ordinary crewmen are completely forbidden as a way of channelling (especially male) sexual energy into aggression against the enemies of the Order.
Under this reading, Finn is (like Rey - and possibly Kylo) a virgin (in multiple senses).
Can I say that when the book mentions Luke’s wife is by his side it reminds me of kylo saying you’ll stand with me
So I haven’t read the book yet, but can I remark on the kiss between Finn and Rose- I had the same reaction at first in the film, that it felt awkward and forced. But one aspect you didn’t discuss is how what had just happened was the motivation for her kiss. Thinking Finn might die and being willing to sacrifice yourself to save him is a pretty big deal. She was quickly forced to face her feelings for him in a life or death kind of situation. And in war romance can escalate quickly because you could literally die any second and you have that sense of urgency. So for me looking at it from that perspective makes it more understandable. And also, visually that scene with the explosion in the background is gorgeous. Anyway, excellent discussion as always, can’t wait for more TLJ analysis from you
May the 4th be with you! So glad to see your content in my feed!
Personally, I disagree in regards to Rey and the novelization depicting her contemplating killing Kylo. She’s contemplated/tried to kill him 3 times in the course of TFA and TLJ. I do not think she loves him yet or knows how to acknowledge it. Also, she left him alive bc she still believes there’s good in him/that his life isn’t hers to take and that the force may put him to good use in a way that she doesn’t see or understand. She has broken the Skywalker curse set up within Anadala - trying to take the future into her hands. She does sound hyper spiritual / almost too Jedi like in that scene in the book / but I bet in film format she would have had an emotional moment.
Idk but I love you ladies and love your content! Go reylo!
can you guys do the visual story telling in the last jedi movie next???!!!😍
Yup yup. It is being edited and will be out next week. ^^
I was wondering when the next vid was coming out this morning, and here it is. Psychic..maybe lol
I love u guys clicked soo fast on this would love to join your podcasts as well lots of love here from the philippines @starwarsconnection
Are you all going to talk about the Episode 9 plot leaks? There is some interesting things in there with Kylo and Rey.
*looks at video length* over an hour long.
O_O
Welp looks like I'm settling in for the night!
What about this for an interpretation of the Canto Bite scene: It was not about saying that rich people are bad or they cannot understand to some extent what the lower socioeconomic class go through because you forget, not everyone is born rich, but they can become it either by working hard or screwing someone over.
To me it was not about rich versus poor/middle class or anything to do with that. It was about CERTAIN people who will profit off of other people's suffering and for the most part do not care and who choose to be ignorant of the world around them and it was illustrated in those scenes. They don't care or won't until it spills over into their world and then they will want protection or want to get involved, but not before.
ALSO, if you look what happened in the Iraq and Afghan "wars" who was profiting? Cheney, Rove and GWB's cronies and they were doing it from both side if you take into consideration that they armed a certain group that is hurting others and spreading "terror."
Think of it this way too, about those who are apathetic, clueless and ignorant or what goes on: I have been VERY vocal on FB and Twitter and even on TH-cam about a prediction I made regarding the #MeToo and Time's Up movements and that was that Hollywood would drop it when it became no longer about them and their world. I predicted that it would be a fad for them that they would abandon when their industry got outed or exposed or "cleaned" up. I got a lot of crap for that because there were people convinced that Hollywood was giving it some exposure, and there are those are not but they are only a handful, and that it was a good thing. That term was used, I think, back in the 1990s or maybe earlier, it was not theirs. AND, what did they do? They did exactly what I knew they would do, and "they" are those in Hollywood who want to show that they "care" about a certain thing even though it is a lot easier for them than it is for other people. So, they abandoned it. They were only concerned with their world and once it was exposed then they dropped it and now are supporting gun control, another fad that they are cheapening. If they did really care, then wouldn't some of them brought attention to our women in the military, past and present?
Also, think about how people, mostly men, have ripped Holdo's character apart saying how "rude" she was to Poe. Well, she outranked Poe and she was his commanding officer and she spoke to him a LOT better than what I was used to in the Army. The idea of tough, strong women in command is still an issue and they are still picked apart when they want to assert their command. Sure, they can do it nicely, but if Holdo had been a man, it would have been a very different reaction.
Child soldiers in Africa and other nations. Isn't that what Finn was? A child soldier who was taken from his family and conditioned to do one thing, kill others with no discrimination?
Also, aren't people still complaining and bitching about Rey's character, Phasma's character too? They call Rey a Mary Sue (which is my mother's name by the way) and wondering how Rey could learn to do things that are mostly done or of interest to men? It is like they are saying Rey is too stupid to really do things on her own and needs to learn from some man, Luke excluded since she did seek him out.
Animal cruelty and exploitation, trophy hunting, indentured servitude, all are issues still. There is also this idea that I think Rian did very well by accident: He expected the audience to be smart enough to think about key things that happened and make connections. He thought people still had imaginations and could think without having everything completely answered for them and isn't there an issue in the US now about the younger Millennials who need things spelled out for them, lack some imagination because technology has advanced a lot during my lifetime and they can get instant gratification? I would say that is a big "YES." Now, I am not saying that all Millennials are this way, esp the older ones, but coming from the "latch key" generation or Generation X mindset, that was a bullseye.
Also, shifting roles of gender, shifting ideas about marriage (though it is not really addressed in SW much) and shifting ideas because when I was a kid, "kids are resilient, kids are tough, they can take it or kids say and think the darnest things" was the ONLY thought when in reality, yes, kids are resilient and tough, but they are not little adults and do not understand everything that happens and must rely on adults for help, which most of us never really got. And, it was just the way of the time and we know more now, so I am not complaining, it was just the way it was. However, when I see the younger generations (I split the Millennials into at least two parts, maybe three) and how ill equipped they are to deal with what we called life.
So, yea, SW is political to a point. Oh, and inter "racial" relationship and couples is another one.
Hi girls! Love your videos. I just wanted to comment. I am not a writer per se, but I write a lot of fanfiction (and especially REYLO fanfictions under the name Juvon Luna Wolf on fanfic.net) and I've gotten really good reviews. But I honestly didn't like how REYLO was portrayed in the novel. It felt colder somehow, more impersonal, as if the writer was instructed not to go "too deep" into their thoughts and feelings (which kind of sucks). Kylo actually seemed like he was explicitly being an asshole towards Rey in the novel and that kind of pissed me off to be honest. So for me, REYLO was not written correctly in the novel. But it is still a good read though.
Out of curiosity, Lee, what did you not like about the film? I liked it, but I'm curious to know what others didn't. I'm all ears and open to different opinions. :). Anyways, I'm always happy to hear from you guys. I really need to buy this.
@Isobel Duncan, thanks for your comment. My dislike of TLJ is very layered, so it's hard to answer this question without going on a huge rant. XD
For me TLJ is flawed in major ways as an individual movie, as a sequel in a trilogy and also as a movie within the Star Wars saga, but the truth is I would have been able to overlook that if TLJ hadn't felt like a such a calculated troll of the things that I personally love about Star Wars. I talked about this in the episode reviewing TLJ after my first viewing: th-cam.com/video/Ybke60jGE7Y/w-d-xo.html
If you'd like to talk more about this you can email me. :)
rowangreenleaf@gmail.com
I see. When I look back on it, I don't think it's as good as it could've been. There were some plot issues and scenes that didn't really need to be there. The Reylo scenes for me now are like a saving grace.
Came for the feels, stayed for the memes
Oh, and thanks for bring up Finn's awakening about fighting for a cause. I thought I was the only one who caught that. I think when Phasma called him "snum" and Finn says "Rebel SCUM" and she falls.
Also, Rose is of more value than they showed in the movie. She's an actual engineer and took the job to be with her sister. I hope she plays a more creative role, the way Scottie was in Star Trek, an engineering genius and also, in Rose's case, a weapon specialist who may come up with a weapon the Rebel's use to even the playing field.
Hux is going to stage a coup with Kylo. I felt that. I like Domhnall Gleeson and I see him as playing a multitude of characters.
Also, is it just me or are people still hung up Kylo killing Han and react as if he doesn't "deserve" a redemption. I comment to them and tell them that I'm sorry they are suffering some sort of Star Wars PTSD and I hope they are making progress in their therapy and they are on the correct meds to deal with it. Then I tell them that I have PTSD from when I was in the Army and do not appreciate it that they are so traumatized by a freaking movie. Think about the body count, Kylo has not killed the most people.
Poe, I really like him, but he's a "hotshot" and reckless, careless and does not think things through very well. He also could not be trusted and Holdo knew this, not that he didn't care, but he blabbed about the escape shuttles, then the First Order found out because he lacks wisdom. But, I think we will see him being very wise and learning from this. He needed to trust Holdo because Leia trusts her. He will grow into a leader from what he learned from this one. Not to mention, he found out how dedicated Holdo was to the rebellion because she saves them.
One thing here: I think Leia wished her son would have been there. Poe is not Force sensitive and Ben was VERY Force sensitive and she wanted Ben to learn to control it, so I don't think there was a mother/son thing going on between Leia and Poe so much as a favorite, cool aunt and nephew. She will always love Ben the most. Also, the final scene in the book with Rey and Kylo, I thought it was more about at that moment in time she had no compassion for him, or maybe it is what he thought it meant. In the Junior novel, the ending is seen through both their eyes and maybe this one was too. I think Rey is upset, but also unrealistic about Kylo/Ben's leaving the "dark" side because he has lived the past several years thinking he was some horrible mutated monster that no one could love or like and Rey cares for him and he doesn't know how to handle it or knows what to think about it. It takes time to get used to a new idea, way of life or a path. He's not the villain so much as a relatively good guy who has gone down a dark path because people are COMPLICATED and situations are too. It's like expecting a heroin addict to quit cold turkey.
More later after I have digested this. Great talk and I'm glad I was not the only one that picked up on these things either. Also, did anyone pick up during the fight scene with Rey and Kylo how they kept sneaking peeks to make sure the other was ok or is that just me?
Love your comment, Shannon! Yes, Rey and Kylo were definitely keeping an eye out for each other in the Praetorian throw down. There were a lot of awesome little details and subtlety in that scene that somehow didn't make it onto the novelization.
Thank you. I really did not like that people considered Rose to be lie Jar Jar, though I liked Jar Jar but understood why he may not have been the best character at that time. I liked the way he and Padme were bonding a little when she was being a handmaid because I saw that as learning more about other people as the two peoples had separated themselves and it was through those two that they came together.
I said before the novel came out that I disagreed with how everyone was talking about and thinking Rose was insignificant. I thought from the beginning that she was more than just someone who works around pipes but was an actual engineer. And, she was a gutsy torpedo who didn't take any crap. When she and Finn were talking about how the FO was tracking them and she was talking, it was obvious that she was a very smart young woman who knew her stuff and I tried to bring that up and some agreed and some very much disagreed. I see her importance.
I so agree with this whole ''Kylo can't be redeemed because he killed Han'' being annoying already at this point. I guess since I didn't watch SW as a child, maybe I don't have the same emotional connection, but objectively looking at it, he orders the murder of a village at the beginning of TFA and yet his worst deed is still killing Han? Even if Han himself as his last deed chooses to show Ben he still loves him?
I felt the same way about Rey’s fickleness, but I had to remind myself that she’s young. At that age most of us are a hot mess. And yes the characters are a bit flat in the book, but l just wrote that off to the fact that the actors playing Rey and Ben are just that good!
I loved your comments on the novelization and couldn't agree more, it helps to understand better the movie itself 😊
I would love to hear your rant about how they treated Luke. I'd imagine other people would as well.
May the 4th be with you all! Can't wait to listen, but at a May the 4th par-tay at my kids' school. Lol
I enjoyed it and would recommend it, but I was really hoping for more of Ben’s thoughts and POVs, during the Force connections especially. It didn’t go as in depth with him as I would have liked.
Agreed. This is an exercise in delayed gratification - they are saving all the inner Ben stuff for IX.
For sure. Even tho I know the pay off will be better in IX because of it, I still wanted more (...more...MORE!) ;p
Like you said, it made no sense that in the novel Rey even considered for a moment killing Kylo when she had just attacked Luke when she found out Luke too almost killed Kylo in his sleep. Rey still hasn’t had enough character development for me. She’s lacking the depth I’m looking for and comes across a little self righteous. Reylo was he strongest part of the film. RJ didn’t handle the transitions well and I’m not emotionally invested in fynn rose or poe... and of course not thrilled with the portrayal of Luke. Makes no sense that he had hope for his father when he realistically had mere moments and conversations with him versus having no hope for Ben
I'll comment more on this later. Great video ladies.
I'm hearing an Episode 9 leak (from a user on 4Chan) who has seen storyboards, and has confirmed the following below (note huge spoilers). This user has posted in the past about The Last Jedi, so it could be legit:
Takes place 5 years after The Last Jedi
Kylo Ren is a really good leader, and is well respected. There is a perceived notion in the galaxy of stability and wealth
The Resistance are split, as some are questioning what they are actually fighting
Transpires, The First Order are exploiting the Unknown Regions
The Knights of Ren feature
Rey is either pregnant, or already has a child
Reylo is very much confirmed in 9. The love between the two will be shown
Armies from The Unknown Regions join up with The Resistance to fight The First Order
Hi Kenny, thanks for your comment. We read about this leak, and there were details there that weren't very flattering at all for Kylo or Reylo. We are taking this with a huge grain of salt - it may be that this person saw storyboards, but whether they interpreted what they saw correctly and whether that outline will change remains to be seen. Still, it's intriguing. 👀
What do you part do think is unflattering for Kylo and Reylo in this leak?
Pregnant or had a child already?! God I hope not.... that would ruin it really.
@Summer Osborne, the complete leak includes mention of Kylo Ren only being superficially benevolent; in reality he is supposed to be running some weirdo slave harvesting operation that oppresses people in the Unknown Regions. Refugees start flocking to Rey and she starts raising one which is supposedly in reality her secret love child with Kylo. When he learns of this he becomes so angry that he almost kills Rey. 🙄🙄🙄
Here is the link to the leak:
www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/8gks0k/i_have_read_a_very_early_storyboard_for_episode_ix/
My bold prediction: the leak is FAF. Kylo Ren will NOT be a slaver in IX. *eye roll*
Honestly, Rey is just as much of a child as Kylo, just more subtle and charming. Her motives are shallow, her character poorly developed, and she's woefully naïve and idealistic but elevated to be this flawless, unstoppable person. It's just as immature as Kylo's tantrums and temper.
I absolutely hated TLJ. I am really glad Lee is here to represent us. I think the only good thing that could come out of this trilogy is Reylo. Even though I don't feel connected to Rey, when she is with Kylo, she is the most interesting.
@SugaKookie's, honestly it sometimes feels like I am the only Reylo who hated TLJ so I appreciate hearing that lol. I think the reality is that a lot of pro-Reylo people don't want to speak out against TLJ because they feel it will be indirect criticism of the Kylo/Rey pairing, but I don't see it that way. If anything, I think it's good for non-Reylo SW fans to see that some of us have the same concerns about TLJ as a Star Wars movie. That might lead to further common ground and room for further debate that ends in them starting to appreciate Reylo more. :)
Thank you, yes. Here's hoping Lucasfilm will do a better job with 9 than they did with TLJ. I have found a lot of "common ground" with other haters thanks to their efforts. 🙄
Kidding aside though, what you're thinking about as "common ground founded on hate" I think of more as people who love Star Wars in a way that's different from the TLJ fans. Not better or worse, just different. Why shouldn't we find common ground based on that?
Lee green, I don't think that all of us are blindly loving the entire movie in the name of Reylo. Although, I'm sure some are. There is plenty wrong with TLJ; the subplots, the lack any further meaningful exchange between Kylo and Leia, cartoon Hux, etc...and it definitely doesn't hold up as well upon rewatch like TFA does. It's more that the hate and vitriol in the fandom is so bad right now, that we don't want to condone or add to the ugliness. So instead, we choose to fight on the side of the light, lol. Fans going as far to boycott any further movies because they didn't like the direction one director took, on a trilogy he is no longer apart of, is just ridiculous! There is also a lot of brilliant bits in TLJ, but any appreciation gets thrown out with the bathwater, because the attitude is all or nothing.
However, your guys' channel is a reprieve from all that, and I greatly appreciate it!
The problem for Jason Fry writing the fight scene is all he had to work with in terms of the script at the time was something like, ‘they fought the guards’.
I honestly really don't want Kylo to go to the light side. He's so much better and more intriguing as a warrior of darkness.
I kind of wish they’d talked about Holdo a bit.
Happy Star Wars Day!!
💜
First, May the Sith be with you...
Second, I've been hesitant buying this novel from what I've seen thus far, because it ''feels'' far-fetched with how it has described certain emotions in scenes, especially concerning Kylo & Rey. I feel Adam & Daisy did a *wonderful* and *better* job in the movie in that aspect. They both deserve some type of reward, especially when Adam brings out the best in Daisy when they both do intense scenes together.
Third, I'm glad someone enjoyed the Finn & Rose Show in Canto Bight, I still felt Finn should have stayed with the Resistance in the movie OR it should have been Finn and *Poe* going to C.B instead...
Hey, thanks for your comment! We think the novel is worth reading, even if the Reylo scenes are in general not as impactful in the book as they are on screen. Maybe you can get it from the library if you don't want to invest in it. XD
Some of us agree with you re: Finn and Poe. Would have been interesting to see them going on an adventure together. Hopefully we'll see more of them in 9!
I think with JJ back in the helm, he'll make it happen...cause if you look at TFA, their camaraderie [bromance] was just as important as Finn's with Rey. Also I'm sure JJ is going to have Rey & Kylo interacting more in #9 anyway, since Reylo was basically started by him.....JJ is *very* aware of that since #7...
Also, I'm not one for leaks so what I've heard so far makes me give it the side-eye....BUT there is something I'd heard that I'm onboard about, Kylo becoming an unexpected benevolent ruler, with a firm hand and actually ruling the galaxy better than Snoke to the point even most of the Resistance are baffled by it, the Knights of Ren FINALLY making an appearance and there might be a galactic war with another galaxy. Den of Nerds and Mike Zeroh are the *only* two channels I go to when it comes to SW news because they are more open-minded/neutral with their POV.....try to be that is.
Plus if we DO get a war that is galaxy vs galaxy [according to the leak some still do not trust Kylo in the Resistance and elsewhere] what Kylo said to Rey may come true ''When the time comes, you'll turn...'' Other than that, I'd rather wait until *after* December 2018 to really start believing in what's showing up over the internet.
I would argue stunned is a valid reaction. Rose just risked her life to save someone she loves. In fact she can't be sure she isn't dying. If I was in the same situation. I'd be like I'm gonna at least get a kiss too.
Did Lee like TFA? It’s interesting cause I didn’t care for that one and liked TLJ way more
Hey Ceasonal, yup - I loved TFA. Honestly, up until TLJ the only Star Wars movie that I didn't love was Rogue One. Like, I love the prequels to bits. They are mediocre movies, but they are as Star Wars as it gets for me. XD
On the politics element, I didn't read the arms-dealers/Canto Bight elements as anti-Western at all. What happens with the arms dealer who made his bank selling weapons to both sides is a part of the lesson in the realities of both the political and military aspects of war. Rose and Finn are both completely naive, which can be seen from their behaviour on Canto Bight, which I will try and expand below:
1. They land on the beach - not a landing pad.
2. They ignore the local who told them they can't park on a public beach, which alerts the local police to their presence.
3. Finn stumbles around the gilded palace like a drunkard, amazed and entranced by all he sees - if this is were a covert mission, they were making a VERY bad job of it as Rose is also clearly not fitting in (sulking, resentful and haunted).
4. They end up in prison and are presented with a possible code-breaker and refuse like resentful children.
5. They only escape because of the despised code-breaker.
6. They take the opportunity to behave like spoiled thugs in smashing up Canto Bight, which will create a very bad impression in galactic high finance and industry against the Resistance.
7. They are only rescued from the planet and able to carry out their (badly thought out) plan because of DJ and BB-8 - who acted independently from both Finn and Rose.
8. Finn assumes - like he does all the time - that the world works in binaries, where as DJ understands the world works in many ways. Hence why DJ can navigate through the world but Finn is still behaving like a lost boy.
Point 6 and the revelation that the Empire and the Rebellion were supplied by the same industries may create a lot of problems in Ep.IX for the new Rebellion because significant figures within the Rebellion will now both be ideologically at odds with the reality of industry and finance and be personally hated by people within those crucial organisations.
How is the Rebellion going to build a financial and industrial base to build armies and fleets powerful enough to defeat the First Order if it adopts an anti-wealth strategy? Unless the First Order is so malicious in rule (and we know the First Order has a lot of support already in the Core and Colony systems), then the Rebellion is going to fail in the short to medium term.
Hux does think from tfa that Poe is suicidal
YAAAAAS
okay if you are under the impression that Rian but canto bight and Roses opinions in the scene for a political statement you could not be more wrong .. that is part of the story ... and you gals are great thinkers and should see past that ---- canto bight , Rose and dj all work together to try to tell you something .. one thing is The FO does not have a free ride or resources to make weapons they have to depend on others and we saw in bloodline the money machine to obtain those funds.. so now the FO and the resistance are very weaken so those beings from the unknown regions have just gained access to this Galaxy what do you think they are going to do ? They are going to come and conquer it ...
I totally disagree with the comments on Rose being used as a political tool to expose capitalism while her and Fin are in Canto Bight. It's more speaking on war, that comes up several times through the movie... when DJ discusses with Fin that "it's all a machine partner". I don't think Rose is being too aggressive when she says that she wants to put her fist through the entire "lousy beautiful town" either. It explains that she grew up in a poor mining society and was stripped of everything they had and then sold to test their weapons, is that not a good enough reason to want to knock down an entire city without being pinned as "hating the rich just because they are rich". She hates them because she grew up with people just like them, she already knew the background of this city, what they built, what they sold, and you could see them abusing these young children right in front of your eyes in the movie... so I respectfully disagree with the political commentary on that one...
If Rose's comments were a political tool in that scene, then so were DJ's, so are Luke's... I mean Luke for crying out loud is basically talking about a two party system (Sith and the Jedi) that is failing and needs to literally die so that it can rise again in a (hopefully) functional way...
So I'll digress with that, I think that the entire franchise can be taken in so many different ways because the story's themselves are a discussion about corruption, evil, light, dark, etc. So if people want to make them political, they surely can... but Rose shouldn't be made an example of when I've been seeing the same political commentary since the beginning of the franchise.
Much love ladies, I always enjoy listening to your videos.
@April, thanks for your comment. We'll agree to disagree, but I'm glad you enjoyed the discussion regardless. ✌️
Liea does not sense her son in the last part of the movie... she cannot connect to him ... he does not either .. he thinks she may be gone... and she thinks he shot her anyway..
I’m with Mary. The hut scene is much better in the movie than in the book. On the other hand, and this isn’t Reylo at all, Rose is given so much more time in the book and she’s a great character.
My biggest fear is that they are going to make Rey a Skywalker.
How awful would that be?!
Kristin Skennar they ain't gonna do it
Kristin Skennar what if it’s by marriage to Kylo tho?
The reason Luke decided to leave with Rey in the book, and not in the film, was because Fry was writing damage control. It didn't happen in the movie, because Rian Johnson wanted you to hate Luke Skywalker. That was his vision. Hating Luke, but appreciating his sacrifice at the end was his intention, in order to build the characters of Kylo Ren, and Rey From-Nowhere. Because Johnson couldn't write a script that both built up Rey, and dignified Luke, he instead used Luke as a plot device.
A work of art is about the maker not the fans
You guys are too tough on Rey about her last interaction with Kylo. I mean she just made a very hard decision that involves other peoples lives. Most people would default to putting up a wall in that situation.
Did u see the so9 leaked into they are casting a white child
Could be baby Ben Solo or the Reylo love child. Either way...intriguing. XD
fingers crossed for baby Ben! I really think further exploration of his relationship with Snoke could win him most sympathy points and make the redemption arc less divisive. But I would obviously not hate a Reylo baby either haha
I need to preface this by saying that I really hoped the relationship between Ren and Rey would develop, before I saw TLJ. But, just what the hell are you seeing that isn't there? I want it to be there, too, but I have to be honest, and so should you.
There was was tension, but almost NO romantic tension. The difference between the two is too important to ignore,especially if you're basing most of your content on it.
The novel was even worse than the movie. There doesn't have to be an "expanded addition" novel for a movie that had a competent script, and what Jason Fry expanded on, gave us little more than what was alluded to in the movie.
I found the novel to be as empty as the novelization for the Force Awakens. I think if you hate the movie, like I do, you need the book to provide the solution, but it just doesn't, and that is truly disheartening for me. I really wanted to have the book fix the movie for me. I even tried lying to myself. I can't.
Very precious little more information about the motives of each character was explored, and what we get most of is more inconsequential, boring verbal dialogue between the characters. Page filler. No deeper motives, aside from some information on Snoke, and the ridiculous, stupid, plot-convenient excuse for where Rey draws her powers, were really developed. I like it more when Star Wars is very character driven, but the characters themselves have to be interesting and have motives we can relate to. It's difficult to relate to the motives of characters we don't really know much about.
Jason Fry does a good job at describing the surface motives of these characters, but we don't get enough detail, nor do we get enough character experience to explain WHY these characters have these motives. They just...have them. A lot of show, not enough tell.This is especially true with Luke, Ren, and Rey.
If you really believe Jason Fry is actually paying inconspicuous fan service to the Reylo fandom, then he needn't continue writing as a professional. What I think he did try to do, was patch up a very broken, chaotic script and douse the flames Rian Johnson lit.
In the end, I understand that when you've abandoned the original intention of your channel, which started out as a deeper, pop culture conscious breakdown of Star Wars, and instead drift toward a channel driven on a sub-plot that might not exist in the first place, you absolutely have to glean more from what's available than what's actually there, in order to remain relevant.
I miss the insight and very interesting perspective your channel used to provide
This is not Star Wars. This is Kathleen Kennedy's creative direction, and this was Rian Johnson's selfish attempt at leaving his mark on a very long living, beloved saga. Admit it.
@Harold White, we appreciate your feedback. It's unfortunate that you are not enjoying our recent content, but it's worth clarifying that when it comes to our channel's "original intention", we've always been a Reylo-centric project - we are made up entirely of members of a Reylo community that dates back to December 2015, and the point of the podcast is and always has been to share the Reylo point of view of the ST with the general audience and other Star Wars fans. Sorry if that doesn't align with what you were looking for. :/
I agree that many of your videos have a Reylo bend to them, which is one reason I enjoyed watching them, but the majority of them involved interpreting the art, particular scenes, the music, etc. No one is now doing that, and I just miss it. It seems to me that there is an important difference between interpretation and projection. Reylo is projection, as of The Last Jedi. An analysis of how the film art and score evoke deeper psychological themes is an interpretation. That's more of what you used to do.
We are not planning on following the same pattern for every discussion because we like trying different things, Harold. The upcoming video will be an analysis of visual storytelling in TLJ, hopefully that will be more to your liking.
Harold White Hi Harold, I'm one of the team members who conceptualized and spoke in the original Visual Storytelling podcast, as well as Adam and Eve and the art podcasts from Summer 2016. I hear you on wanting more of the original type stuff as our teams, myself included, have been and likely will continue playing with different types of episodes (we are by now a tightly knit community of friends doing this for enjoyment) and experimentation isn't always comfortable for an audience that is used to a specific fare.
Tina, Isa, and I recorded a Visual Storytelling in The Last Jedi podcast that will be released soon. However, I will tell you upfront that this episode is Reylo centric, and we could not disagree with you more about the continued direction of the ST. That's because Reylo is not a "ship" or a "wish" for us; it is the story direction we recognized when we watched The Force Awakens and that was furthered in The Last Jedi. Many of us here at SWC are involved in either creating literature and film or teaching these topics. I can tell you from a storytelling standpoint, the metaphors, allusions, subtext, foreshadowing, and even structure of TFA and TLJ point to Reylo.
Something you're going to hear us reference in the new VS podcast is the female gaze. TLJ is written from the female gaze, which means the same type of sexual imagery we're used to seeing in a bulk of movies, which caters primarily to men, is simply not used. Instead, Johnson has taken a more subtle and nuanced approach that appeals more to a female audience because Rey's story is first and foremost a heroine's journey. It's the same approach used in films such as Pride and Prejudice. It's really not that the educated women of SWC missed the mark with wishful shipper thinking; it's that we understand storytelling and we understand the ST was written for us as women.
I do hope you'll give the upcoming VS in TLJ episode a listen. I'll reiterate, our stance has not changed nor is it likely to.
I disagree, The Battle of Endor had a political undertone of the Vietnam War. That was pretty much in your face.
Well I disagree with your disagreement. Yes - Ewoks won in Endor in spite of the Empire's tech being lightyears beyond their rudimentary weaponry, and Viet cong won in spite of US's weaponry being more advanced. That is pretty much where the similarities end. "In your face" is hyperbole -- the parallels between RotJ and the Vietnam war are not evident to the average viewer, whereas TLJ's unsophisticated political agenda is apparent to all.
Eh, people say the Empire is a "metaphor" for Nazis because, besides being inadvertently culturally insensitive, they don't understand the difference between metaphor and allusion. Naziism is alluded to in the term "stormtrooper" (Hux's Starkiller speech is also an allusion to Hitler's speeches) as a shorthand for "the First Order represents ultimate evil". If it extended beyond brief references to help the audience get a tone or mood check, it would read more like Animal Farm, which IS an allegory for the rise of the Soviet Union. Characters would represent specific figures and specific events would take place, such as entire groups of people disappearing from the galaxy based on in-born characteristics (like if the First Order started specifically targeting Twi'leks for genocide, then we could talk WWII allegory...). That does not happen in any Star Wars trilogy, but people recognize the reference and run to left field with it.
Whereas the wealthy, double dealing arms dealers in TLJ are pretty uh, on the nose.
Sorry but if you like TFA more than TLJ, I can't
Marcos, I actually LOVED The Force Awakens in spite of its many flaws. And in spite of its many virtues, I don't like TLJ very much at all. Still, I don't judge anyone who likes TLJ. I am all for people still being allowed to like what they like and having opinions that differ from mine. ✌️
you do need to understand something it is confirmed the RT fan side was hacked... please refer to the only legal source for fans and that is Cinemascore... also take a look at the rating for professional critics in the last jedi and Black panther ... very interesting ... When referencing RT you are not referencing a legitimate source and it is contaminated ...
@Winter Star. Sorry, the reality of it is that a lot of people just hated the movie. I don't think there is any disputing that. As for that urban myth of a hacking being the only explanation for that horrendously low RT score, quoting from a Jan 2018 article by Fobes: "With regard to that very low audience score, quite a few conspiracy theorists ignored the overwhelming evidence that many moviegoers disliked the film, and circulated accusations of organized vote campaigns designed to drive down the film’s scores, despite the absence of any credible evidence to support this notion."
Sorry, but what you're saying about a hacking is not accurate. And just because you like what Cinemascore is saying about TLJ doesn't mean that they are "the only legal source", whatever that means. I think you need to do a little more research on this matter. There are a few good articles about this at Forbes.
www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/2018/01/11/rotten-tomatoes-audience-score-for-star-wars-the-last-jedi-has-tumbled-to-a-rotten-49/#35d7fc003f45
You guys are sorta doing the same as FA, if Reylo was going to happen it should've happened in TLJ. There's no point dragging out a dead franchise.
Oops, Reylo happened though. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Now that these GIRLS know there wont be a REYLO there not very HAPPY Lol
This made me laugh, so thanks for that. XD
man the love for finn but hate for poe turn it down or else peopel going to start thing your tumblr SJW
smh