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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ค. 2024
- In this video I revisit a call I was just at! #hvacguy #hvaclife #hvactrainingvideos #hvac #airconditioning #airconditioner #hvacservice #hvactechnician #furnace #mobilehomes #heatpump #skilledtrades #bluecollar #bluecollarpride @hvactactical @FieldpieceProducts @fieldpiece_tonyg @BoschHomeComfortUS @TruTechTools
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This guy is a legend. Imagine learning from him out in the field. I would be unstoppable
Mismatched system ! Had a homeowner asked to replace a 3 ton for a 2.5 ton to save on power . Lol
Great job,Curtis!
Thanks!
Interesting find Curtis, i look forward to the indoor coil change over 😀 Au
68 degrees. Hope they realize that getting it below 20-25 degrees on any day is rare. Especially if it’s not maintained well.
If it gets below 32 the evaporator will freeze the condensation it is pulling out of the air won't it?
Great video, Curtis.
You didn't miss the issue when you were out there previously, you dealt with the most obvious issue and chose not to bulid the ticket.
You cleaned the furry outside coils, tested the system, and confirmed it worked.
Being methodical, as you are, keeps the customer's costs as minimal as possible.
Awesome job Curtis! I can’t tell you how much I have learned from your videos! I really appreciate the time and effort you put in to make these videos!
Thanks
trying to keep it at 68° when it’s 95 to 100+F outside is not a reasonable target temp, people wonder why their electric bill is out of control and their equipment is always failing prematurely. those same people run their house at 75F+ in the winter 😂
Paying 0.36€ for 1Kwh. Can’t really afford the to run my AC anymore. Germany. Payed 0.27€ before Ukraine war.
OK, how did they not notice it when the coils were clean last year?
Did you pull the piston to verify that it was or wasn't the correct size for the outdoor unit?
The coils really don't have a fixed capacity, all that really maters is the correctly sized metering device, keeping the coil face velocity low enough to not have moisture blow off the coil and the right amount of airflow / load for the condensing unit.
If its a heat pump it may need a charge compensator if the internal volume of the indoor coil and the outdoor coils do not match.
Provided you have a metering device for 2.5 tons, and the correct amount of airflow (~875cfm - 1125cfm depending on climate & indoor conditions), without exceeding 500-600 fpm face velocity depending on the actual surface area of the coil it should work perfectly fine.
Whatever cut rate installer was there set u up for Mayhem like that. Oh well cut rate=mayhem. That simple
Learned in school you can go half a ton bigger on the evap but not vise versa
So as a technician, I was told that it’s okay to up size one of the coils (indoor or outside) by half ton bigger than the other. Was I told wrong? This is the second video I’ve seen where one of the coils was bigger than the other. I’ve been watching your videos for a while and they really are educational and helpful for me. I’ve learned a lot! Good job by the way. I like the fact that you always do right by your clients.
Would an evaporator with an adjustable TXV still have this same issue when mated with an oversized condensing unit?
Or if the evaporator had a piston could that be changed to let more refrigerant flow through?
It’s okay to upsize the indoor part by half a ton, but it can never be smaller than condenser.
It sounds like one of those apartment maintenance myths. The indoor unit can be upsized for more airflow as long as the metering device matches the outdoor unit, but the outdoor unit should never be larger than the indoor unit.
👍👍👍
Who was doing that? Some folks think you can go 1/2 ton in either way. That person needs to be educated. I would change the coil too, those trailers get so hot. Good video, will be waiting for the change out. Stay cool
So you think it's ok to to put a larger AHU on a restrictive mobile home duct system? Curtis does. Ya'll both drunk.
@@woodworkking1099 Dude how did you come up with that? He is matching the evaporator with the condenser because the way it is now, it will never be right. Far as ductwork or anything else, that is a different problem all together. You must be the one that is drunk if you can't see it any other way.
Pretty much any hack installing Nortek products, I'm thinking
I cringe when I see micro channel, I've seen so many and changed so many that have failed. Edit, in FL we used to sometimes oversize an evap on a straight cool but never the other way around.
Cant wait 😊
Wouldnt a bigger outdoor unit cause a much higher SC? I guess my mind goes this unit is how old and just now changing the coil to resolve an issue from installation ? Thanks for the vids! Keep them rolling, i dont walk up to mismatched equipment at all
Are all the mobile homes in your service area single wides? I live in Southern California and all are double it triple wide. My home is 1,820sq ft with a 240 Sq ft sun room/porch.
Love your videos!!!!
Thank you!!
Mobile homes are known for being drafty and having poor insulation. Having incorrectly matched equipment doesn't help.
Good job
it would be helpful if u would give the indoor and outside temps with ur intro to the problem. thanks
Sooooooooooo hot out there 😮😮😮
Great catch. Adding charge isn’t always the solution 😂
probably if the metering device was changed to the right one it would cool okay, but with slightly reduced capacity.
Would love to send u a little of our rain raind all day the 4th someone needs to do better at matching coils sory u had to get out on 4th weekend good catch 👌 👍
I don't think that it is a slam dunk on the compressor. Make a couple more tests before starting the replacement job...
* Check the temperature drop between the output of the condenser coil and the external liquid line, to eliminate the possibility of a restriction within the condenser.
* Check the pressure rise with the gas side service valve closed off to eliminate the possibility of completely open metering device.
So did somebody think using an oversized condensing unit would make the system work better?
What type of metering device is in that evaporator?
How long did it take you to become proficient enough to feel comfortable going out on calls?
Not HVAC guy, but the answer to your question is individual for everyone. If you have a good repetitive order of troubleshooting whether it be for leaks, shorts, capacity, airflow, etc. it helps. You're always learning in this trade. Also it doesn't matter how long you've been doing it you will get occasionally stumped. There's no magic formula to knowing everything, especially with new technology coming out everyday.
In Florida we're installing crossovers now to save money for the homeowner. Well installers are. I'm servicing them and have no idea about their setup. You call tech support and they are clueless.
Always learning. Literature is your friend but having a repeatable set of events to me is important.
Hope that helps. Best of luck
After quoting a coil,hope nobody throws in a .059 on it.t1 is 63.
that coil was dry ,even with the cover removed,should be icing up,piston.
Just curious. Have watched a few of your videos. I've been a light commercial residential tech for a dozen years with one of the largest private companies in Florida. Do you ever just walk in with a digital thermometer and check supply air temp?
It would be a good habit, but usually I check pressures first, temps next.
Alot of guessing in these comments without adequate data, LOL!!!
Well he was guessing too so why not join in
@richardbartlett6932 no problem with guessing as long as your incorrect guesses aren't a cost to the customer.
not your fault... expectations of 100% 1st visit perfect diagnostic is unrealistic. Its the installing contractors fault
So the inside evaporator coil is 2 ton?
Yes
@@HVACGUY how many btu's is the compressor .
Air conditioners are designed for a capacity rated at 95deg outdoor, anything above 95 and the a/c will start to reduce capacity, engineers have always used a 75deg indoor temperature is a base point in design. Your tools and meters should have picked up the coil issue.
ur right on with that, as usual it's operator error on the indoor setting. a unit with r410a peaks at 90deg os temp. micro coil units suck anyway.
Come to Greece. It was 108 the other day. I have two split units 36000 BTU total. (3 tons) in an old small house with no insulation. They are inverter units, air to air, no ducts. If you don't need it all, it just slows down. So nice and no drama. Makes good heat in the winter also.
Good luck getting a PCB board of having someone knowledgeable enough to pull and clean that blower wheel without breaking it. They are great when they work. My family is from Greece and many have ductless systems but the climate is different.
With that high of subcooling, does it mean the compressor is getting flooded back?
No, to see that check superheat. When superheat hits zero liquid is returning to compressor
It might be a good idea to check duct work,by checking if the house is negative or positive,2 cents.
What's that mean?
Did you notice it's an up flow?
@@jpjp9111 If a supply duct is leaking,the house will go negative pressure,if you crack a window or an outside door ,you will feel air coming in.the amount depends on the leak size,and if it is positive that means you are introducing outside air into the return plenum,and you will feel air coming out of the house when you crack the door open.either one will make the ac struggle.
Not a bad idea, but the system being unmatched is definitely an issue.
@@jthonn from experience ,the outside unit,will remove about the same btu's,inside the air temp will be lower with the smaller coil,and higher with a bigger coil,with the right size metering device,unless going txv.
Every up flow single wide I've worked on had trouble keeping up. That thing needs a 3 ton system
That evap coil looked pretty new. You will never get the real story out of the owner, they will say it was working so why do I need a new coil. I wonder if the compressor is going to be damaged in some way because of the smaller coil and then you put the correct size coil in and it still might have problems. I hate that situation because they don’t want to pay for all of your time and because you can’t guarantee it will work, but it’s the first step
Saying it was your fault (for missing the mismatch), does that mean you will waive this service visit's fee? Afterall, you're about to do a coil-swap...
Who works for free? Do you?? Good work for free over here. Get here free of charge.
@@danwesten2771 If I missed something on a visit, I don't charge to return. Of course I would charge for any parts or additional labor.
@@OnusBones if it's fair then fine but it's a fine line. For example, Curtis had no reason to believe the system never worked right. He just had reason to believe it's not working well and that was because of an obvious on a visual check of the clogged condenser coil.
I'll bet after he cleaned that coil the system started cooling. You may say okay what was all the readings but also keep in mind alot can negatively impact those readings at that time like higher than usual heat loads that system is not designed in the first place to handle and second but equally important is a static pressure reading which likely won't be right due to duct work not properly sized. Only after static is measured correctly and the heat load is with in manufacturing specifications can other readings like super heat subcooling and split be accurately measured which is when he would be able to determine a mid match issue and identify any other issues as well.
You can't really miss what's not in your control until it all is and you did.
@@danwesten2771 Fair enough, but he DID say "my fault." That's why I asked.
I would have removed some refrig. Overcharged a bit. I get the smaller coil issue, but still would have removed refrig. Hi subcool.
Hi superheat?
Too many unknowns. He did mention high superheat but checked at compressor only. Could be a temp drop from evaporator. Also mentioned space temp 69. That's a 29 degree coil, which is absurd. No Delta T. Fan speed. Too many unknowns.
There may be no problem at all. Sometimes it's just too hot!!
@@stevekaniaris829 I was looking at his refrig data on his phone. Looked like a high subcool. Cap tube systems require a sub cool method for refrig charge. TXV would take a super heat look. At least that is what I was taught years ago. Some 2.0/2.5 ton coils are made just that way, until you change the piston. Should check with the manufacturer. Some of them do this, even with a model number tag on the coil.
TXV are subcool reliant. 410 units at least ICP products have a subcool goal on the condenser tag and they're a majority TXV. The TXV should throttle to maintain around 10 degrees at the outlet of the evaporator. Piston are more superheat reliant like older R22 systems with pistons. Goodman is famous for pistons on 410 as are some Nordyne micro channel which looks to be the case here. Just depends on what your working on, but like you said most units have a charging chart inside the cover of the condenser. Many factors affect subcool and superheat. Load, airflow, refrigerant levels, cleanliness of the coil it's all relative. Looking at subcool and superheat only gives you a very small picture of what's going on with the system. Like I heard a comment of high subcool is overcharged take out refrigerant well is the amp draw high.
That's why I said earlier somewhere I would have more questions than answers and I can't have that scenario and come to a conclusion that guarantees a good result for the customer. I need a good result. Doesn't take long to get those answers, I just don't have them.
Not to ramble but another thing you find is artificially inflated figures. So I didn't see the original diagnosis but if your 2nd, 3rd, 4th tech on site a unit may be overcharged because an interior coil is obstructed and they've added refrigerant to get superheat to 10 because there's no airflow. This outdoor was dirty so logic would say head pressure was high. Coil was cleaned, what happened to suction pressure after cleaning and drying.
It's a good video for conversation because these are real life things that we deal with. I think Curtis made a call with the information he had and he may know that system like the back of his hand and has serviced it for years. I have units like that that I know and have taken notes on for years. If this was my call and I had cleaned the coil. I certainly would not want another callback so I'd be very vigilant and skeptical.
I'm curious, In the event of a callback is it normal to charge a show up fee on something that was missed or could have been resolved?
I'm still in trade school and just curious about the business side of things. I see a lot of guys who seem to nickel and dime customers and I get that their time is valuable but often times it seems unethical.
Where I work, the only charge on a call back (that’s a legit call back and not a new problem) is any labor and parts it takes to repair it. And even then that labor usually gets discounted.
With a caveat of course, if the last time we were there was a Clean and Tune and not a service call, AND the problem isn’t something that a normal clean and tune would catch (ie low charge, dirty coils blockncondensate and what not) then it’s a new service call.
Question. You said outdoor coil was a microchannel coil. The indoor coil does not look like a microchannel, it loks lime a fin and copoer tube coil. If so there is your problem right there. You must match a microchannel condenser with a microchannel evaporator. I tried to do this once as a customer aquired a microchannel condenser, he had replaced the evap 2 yrs ago so it was still fairly new, his old condenser had the compressor lock up. Replacement used condenser was a york microchannel. Person who installed the evap left a r 410a piston so i swapped the 22 pisten for the 410 a piston. All in all once all was up and running there was issues with pressures, learned ghe hard way and had to replace fin tube coil with a microchannel coil. Problem fixed. Customer was not happy to replace a perfectly good coil, but stuff happens its life.
?? I have quite a few systems out there with a regular style coil outside and micro channel evaps and never ran into that problem. As long as it’s metered right the system doesn’t know the difference
30 years ago a bigger outdoor unit was NOT OK...but in today's world there's nothing wrong with a 1/2 ton bigger outdoors..
you are right, that unit has a 24k btu compressor,with a bit larger condenser coil.
One would figure that a system is sold together. What do you think happened, the original Evaporator coil went bad and Bob asked the helper: " What is on the truck, a 2 ton, ok let's use it "
Seeing that it’s a trailer park the owner probably went with Shady Bob’s deals that can’t be beat.
Not usually the way it works. It goes like this. Can't afford the whole system and labor but I can just do a condenser for X. Then they don't change the metering device and you make 14 across the coil.
Whenever I finish a call, I block their number
LOL tail light warranty
wish it was so simple
Missing that mismatch isn't a big deal half a ton won't make any real difference between the two units.,
my concern was the coil return ends and tubing were dry. That coincides with the high superheat so together suggests metering device issue.
A half ton down on the coil is a big deal. You can go up a half ton, but not down.
So, without any background I'd never change a coil in that situation. There's about a dozen questions and thing to check prior to changing an expensive coil, IMHO. I like your videos but your really putting yourself out there. Also, don't think changing the coil is going to fix that problem.
@@HVACGUY It affects capacity but a smaller evap should result in lower SH not higher like you have. Your issue isn't a sizing one it's a refrigerant flow IMHO. Fix that first then see
So let me ask. Has it worked fine for the last 5 yrs?
@@richardbartlett6932Not defending but with upsizing the coil, whenever he comes back it’ll also have a new metering device on that new coil which should hopefully fix the issue
So the evaporator coil is icing up and not cooling.