From Google: "Of the 71,000 stores around the globe, 21,215 stores (nearly 30% of global stores) are in Japan, with 2,824 stores in Tokyo alone." This is most certainly a reference. LMAO
@@TyroneLangam There's got to be a handful of Isekai worlds that have them. "I died and was brought back to fight the demon king, but he's my boss at 7 Eleven"
DBZA did something that I think is interesting enough that I like to think of it as canon even though it obviously isn’t. TFS built off of Toriyama saying that 16 was based on Gero’s son who died in combat, and they had it so that his son died during Goku’s assault on the RR Army Headquarters. This idea really helps flesh out Gero, especially because it’s kind of weird that he’d have this more than a decade long grudge about the Red Ribbon Army’s defeat if he didn’t have more of a personal stake in it given that the RR Army was actually built to help Commander Red get taller, instead of having some ideological project to believe in (they told the soldiers that it was about taking over the world but that still isn’t really enough of an ideology to explain Gero being so attached to them). Goku killing Gero’s son and that later causing the Cell saga just works really well as an unintended consequence of Goku’s actions.
Yes! Team Four Star is awesome and I loved this scene, I was thinking about referencing it but it does sort of go against Toriyama's specification that he dies in combat due to a stray bullet.
@@toughmangaming8275 I just explain this away in my head by saying that the stray bullet was going for Goku. Sure, that means Goku didn't kill him directly, but it would still mean he caused his death.
@@kenjyn76Yeah, it still works with the TFS scene, the chaos of an entire base firing off weapons to kill a tiny superpowered alien, there's bound to be a stray bullet there.
Not even fifteen minutes into the video, and I am beyond confused why you don't have more subscribers and views. This is so well scripted and concise. Great work!
Draining-types do have infinite energy, and are technically an improved version of 17/18's generators (as they allow a fully mechanical entity to increase it's power over time, where as 17/18's reactors are partly bio-reactors that integrate with living tissue, and absorb ki progression of the user's body to improve output, which doesn't work for a machine body. 16 can't increase his power generation innately, but 19 and 20 can). Since any energy drained permanently increases their output in the future, and takes much less time and effort than 17/18 need to in order to boost their generator's output levels, which requires just as much effort as normal ki growth.
The reason 19 & 20 became 17 & 18 was because when Toriyama's editor first saw them, he said they looked ridiculous and demanded he change the main antagonists.
A bit of correction, it was a former editor, and he didn't really demand Toriyama change it. He just said it sucked and would do the same for 17 & 18. That former editor is also the reason Semi Perfect Cell doesn't last long, he didn't like that one either.
@@masterprick1 No, said fromer editor you first mentioned was responsible for the former case, but not the latter: he complained about 19 and 20, but also about 17 and 18 since he thought they were just brats unfit of being the main villains: this is why Toriyama changed the villain again by creating Cell. It was his *current* eidotr at the time that complained about Cell's 1st and 2nd form being gross and ugly respectively.
@@succubastard1019This. In case anybody needs their names for easier research, his former editor was Torishima Kazuhiko, known to be Toriyama's most strict editor. The current editor at the time was Kondo Yuu
18 being money-motivated after getting a family does make a lot of sense. Nearly every living being in her universe is either her friend, or beatable. She doesn't need food, has shelter, has love, and has purpose. All her sentient needs are met. The only thing left for her is maintain what she has while pursuing material desires/hobbies.
I also love how it's a pretty justified move since, he's Cell. By the time he's perfect he drained several cities and did a funny on the news. If I was a random schmuck and I heard his voice in my mind I'd raise my arms in fear. Which is a pretty sick twist on the spirit bomb.
Super 17 (18 Absorbed) is a part of a chapter (mission) that had a very loose story and wasn’t really focused on. Towa just kept fusing Android with Super 17 for some reason. This is the storyline that introduced SS4 Gohan btw. She first fuses Super 17 with 18, somehow they defuse. Then she fuses Super 17 with 16, then Cell. Perfect Super 17 (as I call him) is sometimes brought out as a super form for Super 17 in the card game but it’s been years since he was last printed.
Fun fact: The Android 13 movie actually came out before Cell stated he wanted to absorb 17 and 18, meaning that it’s entirely possible that Cell and 13 were created independently from each other. Probably not, but it’s possible. I also remember seeing a headcanon that 13 might be modeled off a younger Gero. If you age Gero down, get rid of his facial hair, and shorten his hair, they look pretty similar.
@cin2110 we don't know for sure if he has bug DNA in him,since it's never stated and never really used. He might just be built like that for no real reason.
Oddly enough, tucking your pants into your socks (like how 17 does) is a surprisingly effective way to keep ticks off your legs irl.... Despite being a look only 17 can pull off. Given that Super's version becomes a park ranger, part of me wonders how long Toriyama had that idea for 17 to become one in his head.
Presumably Toriyama had the Park Ranger idea all the way back to at least the Buy saga when we saw him in a forest with his coat and gun, fun fact that scene was actually originally supposed to be launch in the manga but got changed to 17 at some point
My theory on why Androids 19 and 20 showed up instead of 17 and 18 in the altered timeline is that Trunks was just an unreliable source of information. He was a baby when all of this went down, and heard everything second or more likely third hand from his mother, as Bulma probably learned about everything from whoever survived the initial fight with the Androids. I also think things may have happened on a longer timeline than we assumed based on how things panned out in the altered timeline. Since the Z-Fighters didn't know they were coming, it's likely 19 and 20 were active for a little while before the Z-fighters caught up with them. Having heard something attacked an island 9 miles south of South City, they investigated, but maybe weren't able to confront them immediately. Since they can't sense the Android's energy, it would have been even harder to find them without Trunk's warning, so they may not have even found them on May 12, that was just when they became aware of them. When they did finally track the androids down, it went essentially the same as it did in the Altered timeline, with the obvious exception of Goku being dead. Since Gero hadn't factored in the increase in strength everyone gained on Namek in the Altered Timeline, I think that would still hold true in Trunks' timeline, and even without Goku there Vegeta and Piccolo at least greatly surpassed Gero's expectations and they managed to destroy 19, forcing Gero to retreat to activate 17 and 18. (I can't remember or was never clear on whether Vegeta was a Super Saiyan in Trunks' Timeline. Either way, I expect he was still strong enough to handle 19) After that, things went pretty much the way Trunks had forecast, with 17 and 18 killing off each Z-Fighter in turn until only Gohan was left. From there, Trunks grew up only ever knowing about 17 and 18. Bulma, not having known beforehand about the Android threat, wouldn't have gone with the guys to meet them and would have somehow learned about all of this later, with the parts about 19 and 20 being omitted because they'd been defeated and weren't relevant anymore, and so she never never told Trunks either. The only thing I can't reconcile is Trunks saying it was 19 and 20 who would show up when he warned Goku in the manga. I can only chalk that up to Toriyama's style of making it up as he went along and his editor forcing him to change things mid story. But that's my take on the timeline discrepancies. They weren't discrepancies at all, Trunks just didn't have all the details about how the initial encounter with the androids went down.
Personally, I couldn't see Trunks going about this without consulting Bulma. My headcanon, is that 19 and 20 would've gone ignored in the future timeline, giving Gero some more time to install failsafes in 17 and 18 (making them both weaker). Then the Z Fighters would end up confronting 17 and 18 when they're inevitably released. How 19 and 20 were destroyed, I don't know. It's possible that Vegeta kept up with his training and then destroyed them before being taken out by 17 and 18. Or 17 just took care of them.
@kda9x See, I don't think Gero intended on confronting the Z-fighters at all, at least not when they did. I think he'd already nixed 17 and 18 because they were too hard to control, and Cell was plan A the whole time. He turned himself and 19 into energy absorption models because he intended to gather energy to speed Cell's maturation. Once he was fully powered, Cell could absorb 17 and 18 right from their stasis pods. But, 19 got ganked, Gero released the twins out of desperation and got ganked, and Cell was left to develop according to the computer's original parameters. I also think Gero's personal vendetta against Goku was exaggerated, or at least a secondary priority. Since in Superhero we learn he was still working for Red Ribbon, albeit more independently, I think running into Goku in the altered timeline was a happy accident (you know, until it wasn't and everything started going off the rails) and his plans would have proceeded whether Goku was alive or not.
@@grimlockprime1972I can definitely agree with you on the whole thing happening on a longer timescale. That's probably why the Future Androids are weaker. All the present Z Fighters being much stronger probably put everything on fast forward. Leading to Gero awakening them before he felt it was safe.
Well as far as the androids being weaker, the manga covers this. Trunks just wasn’t there when Future 17 told Future Gohan that they were holding back this time so the present androids would also need to hold back less against stronger Z-Fighters. Either that or they were made weaker to be slightly more controllable to go on destroying things when they’re stronger, present counter parts chose not to but still destructive. Although that might not be the explanation since in the present 17 and 18 have a purpose being finding Goku. Therefore they have something to do and no real reason to attack “people who run” unlike their future counterparts. There’s also the notion of Goku being alive in the present which would be reason enough for Gero and 19 to personally take revenge where in the future Goku’s dead, so Gero can spend more time on the androids and they can break out without an interaction leading to 16 being awakened as we see in the anime. This could mesh well with “the future androids are weaker because of Gero and slightly less defiant” theory. There’s also Dr. Gero acting as Android 20 and trying to push the idea that Dr. Gero was dead until Piccolo called him out on his bs. So it’s entirely possible that if Trunks heard this information second hand, the narrative could be that Androids 19 and 20 “killed” Dr. Gero if no one could call him out on this since without Goku, there’s no reason for Gero to be be angry enough to cause a slip to reveal himself as Dr. Gero. Also fun fact. The anime shows future 17 and 18 blasting Cell in his pod but he still survives and later kills Trunks, so there should be a present Cell in the main timeline and the first altered timeline since there’s no way Krillin (and Trunks in the main timeline) would’ve killed Cell if the androids didn’t.
It's implied Androids 19 and 20 just weren't a thing in Trunks' timeline, and the DBS manga would later reinforce this. My guess is that if Toriyama had kept Android 16, 17 and 18 as the arc's main villains he might have given us an explaination as of why this exact change in time happened, but since he almost immediately added Cell into the story the chance to do so just got lost or felt unnecessary.
Yeah I kind of choose to believe that Android 17 and 18 just don't remember their own names from before they were changed. To me it just makes the most sense unless they really just own up that they're not who they use to be anymore or something.
Don't forget about the L's and R's in Japanese. It's not literally Dr "Flappy", you say it as Dr "Frappe", as in the coffee drink. A name pun, like so many others.
For decades at this point, I have had this theory that there is a form of cell that we never got to see. See, when imperfect cell absorbed 17, he took on various masculine features. A very strong jawline, bigger frame in proportion to the rest of his body, and it has been state to be his tallest form. When he absorbs 18, a lot of those over the top masculine features get toned down. I think, that had imperfect cell absorbed android 18, we would have seen an imperfect cell that looks pretty different and more feminine than any other form of cell, as for what that would entail, it's hard to say.
40:13 Pretty interesting detail that he used a form out of desperation he also mocked trunks for using. But attained a better form that has the exact same aura as Gohan’s after being pushed to the brink of death, basically he’s a saiyan at heart☠️
13:50 This is one of the reasons I like and respect 19. Not only is he the first character to beat a super saiyan, he is also the first to fight _two_ super saiyans back-to-back and sample super saiyan energy. Even Frieza himself had to wait a whole year before gettng his second fight with another super saiyan. 19 was also the most loyal android and---along with Gero, was one of Toriyama's _original_ choices for the main villains of the Android Saga...Plus, I just really like characters who can absorb energy.
Man you are underated as hell, an hour and a half long video on the androids and you cover a lot of different materials, your way of speaking is also very calming ngl. (Also 21 mentioned 🙏🙏)
I like Cell's lore better in Kai, where he said a single cell survived his explosion so that Cell can regenerate from just a single cell instead of what was said in Z of him having a "core" or "nucleus" that needs to remain undamaged.
The person that cause the change was not the current editor but a former one. I wouldn't call it executive meddling since it was a personal call and not an official one.
Pretty presumptuous to assume we know enough about souls in dragon ball (or even at all really,) to say that Dr. Gero needed to create them for his Artificial humans, he might try to claim he did, but I think it's more like if it "lives," it has an opportunity to develop one.
because his regeneration comes from his namekian DNA which utilizes a Core system (though thanks to Freiza DNA, his core can survive injuries that a namekian core would die from).
I thought 19 is also like 20 and you can see his brain. In GT, it appeared that Gero removed the red orbs which may be transferred into the final design of Super 17. There are several close ups to his palm revealing he lacks an energy absorber. Trunks saying that 19 and 20 are coming is not a VIZ moment and even the anime specifically adapted the original scene where Trunks claimed 20 and 19 will be coming to take everyone's life. When the Androids appeared, Toriyama's former editor thought they are a joke and Toriyama retconned the scene creating a plothole. After that ironically, 17 and 18's reveal caused his at the time current editor to complain which promptly got us Cell. It is also that editor that wanted Toriyama to change the design of Cell despite being final saying something like "At least he will transform soon." causing Cell from a cool lizard bug to be another transforming villain like Frieza which originally wasn't planned. I think it was implied that the future counterparts held back as 17 mentioned he held back in battle before finishing Gohan. Kinda funny you mentioned 16 blowing himself up as an iconic moment because I don't remember it. But now I recall him being blown up. His most iconic moment to me is being stepped on by Cell to trigger Gohan to get serious. I think specifically regarding Cell, in his imperfect form he didn't have a unique ki signature but his ki basically the ki of the characters he is composed off. And when he executed an attack, the power of the attack matched the power of said fighter at the time. At least that is what it felt like to me. It would kinda explain why Cell would stop using moves of other characters before reaching his semi-perfect form (except maybe solar flare because it doesn't matter how strong the attack is). After exploding, Cell really seemed to have gotten the ultimate plot convenient power up: - survives his own self-destruct - keeps his perfect form despite not having 18 in his body - gets a zenkai - LEARNs instant transmission - the reason he survived is a plothole fixed by the English translation of the anime because his core was blown up by Goku earlier as it is in his head. Goku blew away the entire head. And it gets confirmed again in the Boo Saga as Piccolo states he can regenerate as long as his head is unharmed. I am impressed Toriyama managed to do that in a way nobody is bothered by it. In several Video Games, Cell does use the Spirit Bomb. One of them being the first Tenkaichi. Funny thing is, the reason the Cell Jr's might be able to stop Final Flash is also because Cell trained apparently and probably knows how to handle the Final Flash. Those his Cell Jrs might have adapted that feature. Simply put, I think the Cell Jrs are identical copies to Cell having almost the same amount of power and abilities (except absorption maybe and regeneration in the anime). Funny thing about 14 and 15 is that after Toriyama named them, Toei mixed up their names. 14 is actually 15 and 14 is actually 15. The smaller one has some personality I like is that after Vegeta turned Super Saiyan, he took a sip of his bottle. I love it. Apparently at the time, Broli is stated to be the strongest after his movie came out. Many consider Broli to be weaker than Cell tho I disagree. So I assume many consider Super 13 fodder to Cell Saga characters. Probably the strongest character of the main cast is Piccolo at the time of the movie. My headcanon is that after killing Gero in Super 13, 17 and 18 joined a skater gang and no further conflict took place in the series. I think in terms of character Super 17 is very underrated. He suppose to be a killing machine with no emotion but when we see 18 appear, we see Super 17 actually showing that there is more to him than a mindless robot who follows orders. His personality is identical to 17 and his interaction with 18 show that deep down he doesn't want to kill her. If you watch when brainwashed 17 went to kill Krillin, Hell Fighter ordered him to met him but despite that 17 decided to have 18 join him. When he attacked to finish her off, he actually spared her life which 18 believed is because of the bomb inside her. Super 17 appears to not know why he spared her, it must be some psychological thing and I kinda like it. GT had a few of these like when Goku used Kamehameha times 10 to kill the 7 Star Dragon but subconsciously held back because he would be killing Pan. Also I feel Super 17 has the coolest moments in fights. When absorbing ki blasts from Goku, he is vibing. The beat down of the Z Fighters look fire, and after each action scene he cares about how cool he looks. We don't know if Hell Fighter 17 could absorb or not. He might have had functions we don't know about. I think it is a major misconception that many believe Hell Fighter, just because he looks like 17, is the exact same model. But he is build with Machine Mutant technology, he can fight GT Vegeta who believes 17 powered up beyond believe in the original translation and he has the ability to awaken the original 17's hidden powers which apparently suppose to be higher than Cell's. Which Cell? Considering everyone in Hell know each other, it must be Super Perfect Cell. While it might come off as dumb, I think it is reasonable as Gero shut down the Project and it is likely that Cell could not access 17's full power at all. Super 17 cannot sense energy but he can sense the vibration on the air and forsee his enemies moves which is why Goku had to resort to using Ki Blasts as it appeared that he cannot dodge those. Sadly, Super 17 purposely took down and Goku had to result to a trick he used against Yakon. Even in the Perfect Files they make a fuss about Super 17 being able to predict movements of his opponents and the only time he was caught off guard was because of his own attack, where Goku was able to instant transmission to grab him for a self-destruct move. Super 17 prevented both from dieing by using his shield. Dragon Ball Online had a lot of Androids apparently where also Cell X originated and apparently there is stuff like Android 19000.
Thanks so much for coming back and pointing this stuff out, friend! I like your takes about GT and the clarifications about some of the things that seem to be retcons/inconsistencies!
@@toughmangaming8275 I am glad you like them. Before there was a dub I could understand, I started watching GT in Japanese with subtitles so I am often dealing with people who think Gero and Mu made an identically weak 17 to merge and their power just "doubled". I wrote a review on the movie Super 13 where I talked about how unrealistic the transformation of 13 is after absorbing and it has to be because they were copying stuff from the source material repackaged. But thinking now, I wonder (the writers probably didn't think that far) if the other 2 Androids could do the same. It seems weird that an outdated model would have more features and is superior to later models by that much. Generally my opinion on Super 13 movie is, it should have been a prequel arc for the android Saga as filler and let the lesser characters fight them and maybe win. The anime had the opportunity to let Bulma get pro-active to wish to know the location of Gero's location only to waste the wish prematurely leading to the events playing out worse than in the future. And these androids could have been a teaser how powerful the real deal is. Maybe Goku could have intervened at some point and defeat the most powerful by a hair without needing to transform. Meh, maybe that was unneeded talk. But then it makes you wonder why Gero chose to become a weak energy absorbing model android over whatever 17 and 18 are, since they appear to be far more superior. I feel the story did not a good job in explaining this as Gero did appear to believe 17 and 18 are capable of defeating Vegeta, but chose to become what looks to me a lesser version. And I just recalled that Super Dragon Ball Heroes World Mission introduced 2 more Super 17 variation. One of them looks swole because he absorbed 19... or was it 16? I don't know. He did absorb both at some point.
When it comes to power sources, I always find it fascinating to think about the characteristics Gero was designing for. From my ponderings I always end up thinking about "Maximum Output" (What the maximum output of ki/power that the power source and put out), "Output Control" (How well the output of a power source can be adjusted), Output Efficiency (This is a bit of a weird one; its the idea of how efficiently a power source can put out from its reserves/stamina at different levels of output. Kind of like how cars have different fuel efficiencies for different speeds, I imagine some power sources can be efficient at all levels of output, some are inefficient as they move away from max output, and those that get more inefficient as they approach max output), Rest Max Capacity (The level of stored energy a power source would rest at without external influxes, basically a full tank. Or in the case of Energy Absorption the level that an android will decay to without a constant source of Ki), and Recovery Speed (How quickly a power source can recover itself), and 'Characteristic Alteration' (Or if and how well these characteristics can be improved). I also like to think the fact one of the cell Jrs could reflect the Final Flash, and the fact they are 'tamed' later... Is proof that they're iterations of Cell rather than clones, possibly with forced mutations. More head cannon, is that they aren't like animals, but the genetics for socialization were probably streamlined to make the genome more stable. After all Gero could have used programs to condition Cell during development and gestation. But again, just casual head cannon. Anyways, fun video!
Even as a kid I hated how Cell became more humanlike. I know that it was done to make it easier to draw, but I really wanted it to become more monstruous, like at his perfect form he becomes some sort of queen who keeps giving birth to lesser copies of himself, 8 y.o. me was so bummed when it turned into a tournament arc.
That seems to be a fairly popular opinion from what I've seen. I've seen a lot of people claim for either perfect or imperfect cell. Though I've never heard anybody say they like Semi-perfect as their favorite besides Toriyama.
On the point of future 17 and 18 being weaker than the main timeline versions, it's fairly safe to say that Trunks just never knew their actual full power since they're only ever toying with him and Gohan, they are the android's entertainment until they get bored of them(as seen by the death of Gohan; they broke their toy, gotta throw it out)
56:20 I dont know if it counts but in Budokai Tenkaichi 3, the move where he shoots out red energy balls in his Semi-Perfect form to destroy islands to find 18 was shown to be his version of Vegeta's Big Bang Attack, the Big Bang Crash
This probably isn't canon, but in dbz kakarot, when rematching cell after reviving him, he says he lied about the core thing entirely as to keep his enemies guessing
Doesn't make much sense, the only people that learned that was gohan and co. When they already had seen him lose his head, and it didn't even help him at all as he died some minutes later xd
Hella good video, enjoyed the detail and thought brought in. Quick correction though for 20:00, I assume you're speaking of the 17 and 18 from the present timeline considering you mentioned their hunting game for Goku; it's actually a point in the series that other than Dr. Gero, 17 and 18 never actually killed anyone unlike their future selves.
You actually missed one form for Cell. In the Dragonball Online game there is a quest where you take on a giant more insect-ish sorta queen-bee looking version of Cell. But this video was very in depth and enjoyable otherwise! ^-^
I always thought that Cell was able to move his "core" inside his body. As in, it doesn't necessarily have to be in his head and could really be moved anywhere within his body, either by instinct or consciously. Which is why he's able to survive with his head and upper body being blown off by Goku, while making the statement about the core "being inside his head" a true statement at that moment
I always knew cell was a walking super saiyan 24/7 Main reason goku and gohan trained the super saiyan by leaving it on so it can be more of its natural state.
My head-canon is Gero was able to make such powerful androids with 17 and 18 because mecha-freeza showing up on earth, allowing Gero to reference the data
I love Android 17 and Android 18. I want Android 17 to be more involved with the Z-Fighters, and I really want to see Android 17 fight alongside Piccolo as a cool dynamic of how they fought each other and now they are fighting side by side. I also want to see Android 18 train and become stronger on the level of her brother and Goku and Vegeta, just up there with the big boy, because I know that she is a wife and a mother now and has a lot of responsibilities, but I just don't want her to be made a second rate lesser character like Tien and Piccolo because she also has infinite energy and stamina and has a lot of promise and capability to become a stronger and more serious threat. I also want to see Android 18 use force fields just like her brother.
I mean it's pretty much been stated that literally anybody can reach these levels of power through training. It's not particularly surprising that similar feats could be achieved through science. Bulma literally created a time machine.
I'm pretty sure that 17 18 and 16 exist becouse of Dragon Ball's editors. They were not happy with the "fat guy and old guy", so Toriyama made 17 and 18, but they were "just brats" so he made 16... ans then cell, who also had to evolve to look cooler
@@Seloliva1015 You're all good! Maybe I should've put it in the 19/20 section, but I felt like it was more fitting for Cell as it's sort of the origin for his character
I argue Cell is not in super saiyan. That, or he's super saiyan at all times, and only shows his aura when powered up, like grade 4 super saiyan. Otherwise, he should be much stronger if he can go toe to toe against super namekian piccolo, and then go 50x stronger in their rematch
17:57 - 18:36 About Trunks calling the androids of his future 19 and 20, turns out that was in the Japanese version as well. The weirder thing is that not just the translations, but not even reprintings of the Japanese version ever bothered correcting it.
I dont know if this is true just my head cannon because of butterfly effect 20 and 19 probaly being\becoming androids because of trunks time traveling mabye im wrong or probably
Since Gero models the purely artificial androids after things from his life, like 19 being that doll on a RR base, and 16 being his son, It's likely that 13, 14, and 15 are also people he's known. Likely all RR members from different parts of the world given all their distinct appearances. Could've died before or after Goku's attack on RR, but he made androids to commemorate them.
I hadn't realized until you said it that Cell Semi-perfect didn't have wings, it blew my mind, I had to look at it on Google Images and I honestly didn't believe it XD.
Maybe Android 8 Was Restored But Not 16 Because He Counted As "Technology" Rather Than An Alive Being In The Cell Saga They Never Wished To Repair The Damage Made By Cell, Only Resurrect The People, While In The Buu Saga They Wished The Whole Planet Back, Which Of Course Included The Houses, Cities, Computers, Vehicles, Technology In General, Etc (Man Made Stuff) And Not Just The Natural "Empty" Planet Itself Basically, If Wishing Back Earth Restored Your House, Tv, Computer And Fridge That It Was Destroyed By Buu, Then It Sure Can Also Restore Android 8
Imagine talking about Cell's Spirit Bomb and NOT mentioning his use of it as an Ultimate in the Budokai games. And his harnessing of STUPID energy, destroying his opponent with the combined might of all Twitter users.
Okay so Heroes gets a little nuttier for Super 17 Not only does Super 17 absorb 18 He manages to absorb Android 16 becoming immensely swole He also at one point, in the biggest form of irony ever, manages to absorb Cell Guess his absorption really was beyond Gero's expectations Cause he absorbed not only a perfect being and his sister He also absorbed 16 who is a purely artifical being Something Cell couldn't do in his dreams Also you mention Xenoverse. In that game Cell wonders what would happen if he absorbed 17 and 18 again in his current state implying he's still capable of absorbs people even with his tail gone And within the game Dragon Ball Fusion there is some exclusive fusion between rhe Androids. Android 17 and Android 18 become....Android 1718. Android 16 and 17 become Android 1617. Cell and 17 become Cell 17. 16 and Cell become Perfect 16. 19 and 20 become 1920. Arale and 18 become Arale 18. And Cell & Frieza become Cellza.
Cell lost to plot armor (a good plot armor but plot armor nonetheless) I like to imagine that TOP would of been better if cell was brought back instead of frieza
I've always wondered what the other Androids that are never shown looked like. 1-7 and 9-12 were completely artificial, but Gero could not control their personalities: too dark, too stupid, too nice, etc. These units have design flaws or other problems, which lead to them being scrapped. My head cannon Major Metallitron is “Android 4” due to his many similarities in design with Android 16, and because 4² = 16. According to Dragon Ball Online Android 9, an artificial replica of Commander Red. Android 9 was an entirely mechanical Android constructed by Dr. Gero at some point following the Red Ribbon Army's defeat but possessed a problem and so was destroyed. So take it will a grain of salt. 9 and the androids that follow were created with the sole intention of killing Goku. However, like 1 through 7, 9 through 12, all have problems, which eventually lead to them being scrapped. It would be cool if we had designs for the unseen ones.
Also, about Cell having the lowest kill count... Vegeta only kills a planet in contentious anime filler. In manga canon, he literally kills nobody on earth (Nappa did all of it), and in the Namek saga only kills a Namekian village. He also kills a few drivers in his fight with 18, and part of a stadium crowd as Majin Vegeta. Cell definitely has a bigger kill count than Vegeta, at least for onscreen events.
This is probably true, however we do know that Vegeta has mentioned that he's slaughtered quite a bit of folks even in the manga. Thanks for the take though!
Cell fun fact: Based on an optional pre-fight interaction with Goku in Dragon Ball FighterZ's Enemy Warriors Arc, Cell's experience in the afterlife is indescribably traumatic. No official statements I'm aware of have clarified what Cell's Hell is canonically like, but it's so awful he refuses to explain it to Goku, and tells Goku to "use your imagination" in regards to what goes on there. This implies it is nothing like the Hell seen in Z filler and movies or in GT, though based on the Resurrection "F" version of Frieza's afterlife, those were already dubiously canon.
Random dumb head canon. Cells core moves. It's in his stomach area in his perfect form and in his head in his semi perfect form. Could also explain the damage that Gohan's stomach blow did to make him regurgitate 18.
I kind of like the idea that 19 and 20 are the ones who showed up in Future Trunk's timeline at the date and time he gave. Most of the Z fighters wouldn't be aware of the massacre until either Bulma calls them or they hear about it in the news. Gohan, Piccolo, and Vegeta would be the strongest of the fighters. Bulma probably tells her husband first, who might be the only one to respond to the South City incident, thinking it something easily taken care of by himself. He takes out 19 similarly and chases Gero to his lab where he activates 17 and 18, who presumably take out Gero and Vegeta. Piccolo maybe shows up shortly after, sensing things through Kami, gets killed very shortly after Vegeta. Then Gohan and later Trunks have few means of knowing that 19 and 20 destroyed South City, not 17 and 18, and it wouldn't particular matter that 19 and 20 got things rolling in the end anyways.
18:23 - It actually was a change in chapters after the production. Toriyama's former editor Kazuhiko Torishima disproved of Androids 19 and 20 as the main antagonist's of the arc. Kazuhiko also lead to the creation of Cell as well as he was also displeased by Android 17 and 18.
3:36 - The Power Supply isn't just common trait, its a necessity of design. Ki energy comes from living things, so in a sense "sensing Ki" is basically sensing the energy given off by living things. Because Mechanical beings aren't "alive" in that sense, they have no ki. It's also why Gero makes the Cyborgs amongst the models because he needs the bio material for the Ki potential. Android is a term that really comes from the dub. In Dragon Ball, merely having a metal man was enough to deal with most of the planet. Basically imagine even a skilled martial artist fighting a terminator. But with Goku and the direction the conflict goes and with Ki attacks increasing in threat Ki usage becomes a necessity. 18 and 17 are actually mostly human except for their Power Supplies, likely somewhere near 90%. This is why she can conceive.
54:35 I always applied the head-cannon that gero modified cells Regeneration to be better then piccolos. Say in a way he’s able to regenerate from anything. Idk why they never used this or tori his self as an explanation.
17:38 i always thought the same events happen in order but with Goku catching the heart virus at home while the androids was blowing the city and the z fighterz had to fly out after Goku died, Vegeta prolly had to handle 19 as a super saiyan and then Gero unleashed 17 and 18. I also thought that since Goku was dead they couldn't fulfill and that they also didn't have 16 with them is what made a difference
Cells reveals in dbz: kakarot that he might not be entirely honest about revealing his regeneration core; also insisting hes just not going to explain his abilities too clearly. Showing that his dna is far more capable then he let on.
This whole time I thought the scientist from the filler segment of the original Dragon Ball _was_ Dr. Gero (I didn't remember his name so I assumed he was the same guy) and I was _so confused_ as to how that sweet old guy turned into a megalomaniac in the Android saga.
Is that a challenge? Jk, it would be a fun video but it would probably take a LONG time, especially when we consider how Super added a bunch of more timelines.
Probably you go into it later, but i think the most logical take away from 17/18 is they have some kind of zero point power source or something like that drawing energy out of subspace, which means they have infinite energy to draw on, but are limited by a max bandwidth or output at any given time. Which maybe if they were more clever about it, they could use that energy to store in an external form some how to draw out more to kinda cheat their beyond maximums.
my favorite fact by far was "the cell jrs are alive and have been mostly domesticated by 17"
Fun fact: The majority of 7-Eleven stores in this world are in Japan, so it’s 100% a reference
From Google: "Of the 71,000 stores around the globe, 21,215 stores (nearly 30% of global stores) are in Japan, with 2,824 stores in Tokyo alone." This is most certainly a reference. LMAO
That is awesome.
"In this world" lol looks like we need a lore video on 7 Eleven
@@TyroneLangam There's got to be a handful of Isekai worlds that have them. "I died and was brought back to fight the demon king, but he's my boss at 7 Eleven"
Fun fact: ur mom gay
DBZA did something that I think is interesting enough that I like to think of it as canon even though it obviously isn’t. TFS built off of Toriyama saying that 16 was based on Gero’s son who died in combat, and they had it so that his son died during Goku’s assault on the RR Army Headquarters. This idea really helps flesh out Gero, especially because it’s kind of weird that he’d have this more than a decade long grudge about the Red Ribbon Army’s defeat if he didn’t have more of a personal stake in it given that the RR Army was actually built to help Commander Red get taller, instead of having some ideological project to believe in (they told the soldiers that it was about taking over the world but that still isn’t really enough of an ideology to explain Gero being so attached to them).
Goku killing Gero’s son and that later causing the Cell saga just works really well as an unintended consequence of Goku’s actions.
Yes! Team Four Star is awesome and I loved this scene, I was thinking about referencing it but it does sort of go against Toriyama's specification that he dies in combat due to a stray bullet.
@@toughmangaming8275 I just explain this away in my head by saying that the stray bullet was going for Goku. Sure, that means Goku didn't kill him directly, but it would still mean he caused his death.
@@kenjyn76Yeah, it still works with the TFS scene, the chaos of an entire base firing off weapons to kill a tiny superpowered alien, there's bound to be a stray bullet there.
@@toughmangaming8275When did he say that
That group of unfunny retards has done irreparable damage to the English community.
Not even fifteen minutes into the video, and I am beyond confused why you don't have more subscribers and views. This is so well scripted and concise. Great work!
Thank you so much! I really appreciate it!
Draining-types do have infinite energy, and are technically an improved version of 17/18's generators (as they allow a fully mechanical entity to increase it's power over time, where as 17/18's reactors are partly bio-reactors that integrate with living tissue, and absorb ki progression of the user's body to improve output, which doesn't work for a machine body. 16 can't increase his power generation innately, but 19 and 20 can).
Since any energy drained permanently increases their output in the future, and takes much less time and effort than 17/18 need to in order to boost their generator's output levels, which requires just as much effort as normal ki growth.
The reason 19 & 20 became 17 & 18 was because when Toriyama's editor first saw them, he said they looked ridiculous and demanded he change the main antagonists.
That editor is the only reason krillin got some😂
A bit of correction, it was a former editor, and he didn't really demand Toriyama change it. He just said it sucked and would do the same for 17 & 18. That former editor is also the reason Semi Perfect Cell doesn't last long, he didn't like that one either.
@@masterprick1 No, said fromer editor you first mentioned was responsible for the former case, but not the latter: he complained about 19 and 20, but also about 17 and 18 since he thought they were just brats unfit of being the main villains: this is why Toriyama changed the villain again by creating Cell. It was his *current* eidotr at the time that complained about Cell's 1st and 2nd form being gross and ugly respectively.
@@succubastard1019This.
In case anybody needs their names for easier research, his former editor was Torishima Kazuhiko, known to be Toriyama's most strict editor. The current editor at the time was Kondo Yuu
This also created a plot hole, where Trunks even specifically mentions 19 & 20 being the ones causing trouble in the future. The anime fixes this.
18 being money-motivated after getting a family does make a lot of sense. Nearly every living being in her universe is either her friend, or beatable. She doesn't need food, has shelter, has love, and has purpose. All her sentient needs are met. The only thing left for her is maintain what she has while pursuing material desires/hobbies.
ZAMM
She is a selfish arrogant Android both of them are
That bitch Bulma and her capitalist evil corp hold 75% of earth wealth
She can at least give some money to people who save her and her planet
@@NateBullock-ow6on Trunks we know this is your burner bro
In the Budokai Games, Cell has the Spirit Bomb as an Ultimate that's pretty cool.
That is pretty cool!
@@toughmangaming8275 Always loved his dialogue doing it "All right planet, give me that stupid energy!"
@@zeroattentiongaming820 Cell threatening a planet for energy is one of those things you never knew you needed to hear until you do
he even has it in the Xenoverse games
I also love how it's a pretty justified move since, he's Cell. By the time he's perfect he drained several cities and did a funny on the news.
If I was a random schmuck and I heard his voice in my mind I'd raise my arms in fear. Which is a pretty sick twist on the spirit bomb.
Super 17 (18 Absorbed) is a part of a chapter (mission) that had a very loose story and wasn’t really focused on. Towa just kept fusing Android with Super 17 for some reason. This is the storyline that introduced SS4 Gohan btw.
She first fuses Super 17 with 18, somehow they defuse. Then she fuses Super 17 with 16, then Cell. Perfect Super 17 (as I call him) is sometimes brought out as a super form for Super 17 in the card game but it’s been years since he was last printed.
Thank you so much!
Chicken Sandwich
Chicken Sandwich
Sandwich of Chicken
Turkey sandwich 🦑💰
fish soup
Popeye's chicken sandwich 😭
Fun fact: The Android 13 movie actually came out before Cell stated he wanted to absorb 17 and 18, meaning that it’s entirely possible that Cell and 13 were created independently from each other. Probably not, but it’s possible.
I also remember seeing a headcanon that 13 might be modeled off a younger Gero. If you age Gero down, get rid of his facial hair, and shorten his hair, they look pretty similar.
Gero got hit hard by the old man genes and that would explain why he got with android 21 and why android 16 was big and jacked
My headcannon for 13 is that he was a prototype cell due to his absorbtion abilities
That bitch Bulma and her capitalist evil corp hold 75% of earth wealth
She can at least give some money to people who save her and her planet
This Cell is comprised of 10.78% of Son Goku's DNA. These parameters, are aceptable.
He's 20% Goku,actually.
20% Goku,20% Vegeta,20% Frieza,20% King Cold,and 20% Piccolo.
@@mirthless5603Nope he has some bug dna and stuff inside him too.
@cin2110 we don't know for sure if he has bug DNA in him,since it's never stated and never really used. He might just be built like that for no real reason.
@@mirthless5603 never seen tfs?
@@smithyMcjoe no,why?
Oddly enough, tucking your pants into your socks (like how 17 does) is a surprisingly effective way to keep ticks off your legs irl.... Despite being a look only 17 can pull off.
Given that Super's version becomes a park ranger, part of me wonders how long Toriyama had that idea for 17 to become one in his head.
That's a really interesting fact I did not know! Thanks for sharing it!
The fact that you wrote hands even after editing the comment made me very confused for a moment, then very entertained.
@@l0rf to be fair, it was like... 3 in the morning when I wrote it (insomnia is a bitch lemme tell ya). Some autocorrects are gonna slip through.
Presumably Toriyama had the Park Ranger idea all the way back to at least the Buy saga when we saw him in a forest with his coat and gun, fun fact that scene was actually originally supposed to be launch in the manga but got changed to 17 at some point
@@JackedUpEntertainmenttoriyama hates her 💀
My theory on why Androids 19 and 20 showed up instead of 17 and 18 in the altered timeline is that Trunks was just an unreliable source of information. He was a baby when all of this went down, and heard everything second or more likely third hand from his mother, as Bulma probably learned about everything from whoever survived the initial fight with the Androids. I also think things may have happened on a longer timeline than we assumed based on how things panned out in the altered timeline. Since the Z-Fighters didn't know they were coming, it's likely 19 and 20 were active for a little while before the Z-fighters caught up with them. Having heard something attacked an island 9 miles south of South City, they investigated, but maybe weren't able to confront them immediately. Since they can't sense the Android's energy, it would have been even harder to find them without Trunk's warning, so they may not have even found them on May 12, that was just when they became aware of them. When they did finally track the androids down, it went essentially the same as it did in the Altered timeline, with the obvious exception of Goku being dead. Since Gero hadn't factored in the increase in strength everyone gained on Namek in the Altered Timeline, I think that would still hold true in Trunks' timeline, and even without Goku there Vegeta and Piccolo at least greatly surpassed Gero's expectations and they managed to destroy 19, forcing Gero to retreat to activate 17 and 18. (I can't remember or was never clear on whether Vegeta was a Super Saiyan in Trunks' Timeline. Either way, I expect he was still strong enough to handle 19) After that, things went pretty much the way Trunks had forecast, with 17 and 18 killing off each Z-Fighter in turn until only Gohan was left. From there, Trunks grew up only ever knowing about 17 and 18. Bulma, not having known beforehand about the Android threat, wouldn't have gone with the guys to meet them and would have somehow learned about all of this later, with the parts about 19 and 20 being omitted because they'd been defeated and weren't relevant anymore, and so she never never told Trunks either. The only thing I can't reconcile is Trunks saying it was 19 and 20 who would show up when he warned Goku in the manga. I can only chalk that up to Toriyama's style of making it up as he went along and his editor forcing him to change things mid story. But that's my take on the timeline discrepancies. They weren't discrepancies at all, Trunks just didn't have all the details about how the initial encounter with the androids went down.
Personally, I couldn't see Trunks going about this without consulting Bulma.
My headcanon, is that 19 and 20 would've gone ignored in the future timeline, giving Gero some more time to install failsafes in 17 and 18 (making them both weaker). Then the Z Fighters would end up confronting 17 and 18 when they're inevitably released. How 19 and 20 were destroyed, I don't know. It's possible that Vegeta kept up with his training and then destroyed them before being taken out by 17 and 18. Or 17 just took care of them.
@kda9x See, I don't think Gero intended on confronting the Z-fighters at all, at least not when they did. I think he'd already nixed 17 and 18 because they were too hard to control, and Cell was plan A the whole time. He turned himself and 19 into energy absorption models because he intended to gather energy to speed Cell's maturation. Once he was fully powered, Cell could absorb 17 and 18 right from their stasis pods. But, 19 got ganked, Gero released the twins out of desperation and got ganked, and Cell was left to develop according to the computer's original parameters. I also think Gero's personal vendetta against Goku was exaggerated, or at least a secondary priority. Since in Superhero we learn he was still working for Red Ribbon, albeit more independently, I think running into Goku in the altered timeline was a happy accident (you know, until it wasn't and everything started going off the rails) and his plans would have proceeded whether Goku was alive or not.
@@grimlockprime1972I can definitely agree with you on the whole thing happening on a longer timescale. That's probably why the Future Androids are weaker. All the present Z Fighters being much stronger probably put everything on fast forward. Leading to Gero awakening them before he felt it was safe.
Well as far as the androids being weaker, the manga covers this. Trunks just wasn’t there when Future 17 told Future Gohan that they were holding back this time so the present androids would also need to hold back less against stronger Z-Fighters. Either that or they were made weaker to be slightly more controllable to go on destroying things when they’re stronger, present counter parts chose not to but still destructive. Although that might not be the explanation since in the present 17 and 18 have a purpose being finding Goku. Therefore they have something to do and no real reason to attack “people who run” unlike their future counterparts.
There’s also the notion of Goku being alive in the present which would be reason enough for Gero and 19 to personally take revenge where in the future Goku’s dead, so Gero can spend more time on the androids and they can break out without an interaction leading to 16 being awakened as we see in the anime. This could mesh well with “the future androids are weaker because of Gero and slightly less defiant” theory. There’s also Dr. Gero acting as Android 20 and trying to push the idea that Dr. Gero was dead until Piccolo called him out on his bs. So it’s entirely possible that if Trunks heard this information second hand, the narrative could be that Androids 19 and 20 “killed” Dr. Gero if no one could call him out on this since without Goku, there’s no reason for Gero to be be angry enough to cause a slip to reveal himself as Dr. Gero.
Also fun fact. The anime shows future 17 and 18 blasting Cell in his pod but he still survives and later kills Trunks, so there should be a present Cell in the main timeline and the first altered timeline since there’s no way Krillin (and Trunks in the main timeline) would’ve killed Cell if the androids didn’t.
It's implied Androids 19 and 20 just weren't a thing in Trunks' timeline, and the DBS manga would later reinforce this.
My guess is that if Toriyama had kept Android 16, 17 and 18 as the arc's main villains he might have given us an explaination as of why this exact change in time happened, but since he almost immediately added Cell into the story the chance to do so just got lost or felt unnecessary.
Yeah I kind of choose to believe that Android 17 and 18 just don't remember their own names from before they were changed. To me it just makes the most sense unless they really just own up that they're not who they use to be anymore or something.
Extensive?
Overly complicated?
1.5 hours?!
Perfection 👌🏻
must be an android, then
Don't forget about the L's and R's in Japanese. It's not literally Dr "Flappy", you say it as Dr "Frappe", as in the coffee drink. A name pun, like so many others.
For decades at this point, I have had this theory that there is a form of cell that we never got to see. See, when imperfect cell absorbed 17, he took on various masculine features. A very strong jawline, bigger frame in proportion to the rest of his body, and it has been state to be his tallest form. When he absorbs 18, a lot of those over the top masculine features get toned down.
I think, that had imperfect cell absorbed android 18, we would have seen an imperfect cell that looks pretty different and more feminine than any other form of cell, as for what that would entail, it's hard to say.
That would entail a lot of rule 34.
Femboy cell @@cin2110
40:13 Pretty interesting detail that he used a form out of desperation he also mocked trunks for using. But attained a better form that has the exact same aura as Gohan’s after being pushed to the brink of death, basically he’s a saiyan at heart☠️
Oh I'm here for this. Being a Dragon Ball fan first, a Z fan second, I've always loved the Androids
Like OG Dragonball or just the entire franchise? I mean either is absolutely fine I’m just personally curious lol.
@@thelettucebarrel7784should have been more clear, OG series.
@SupaPerfectoCell Right on
OG DB fans rise up...
Bro spent more time talking about 17&18’s drip than any theories about how they ‘work’. I like it.
We get to the important topics here on this channel...
13:50 This is one of the reasons I like and respect 19. Not only is he the first character to beat a super saiyan, he is also the first to fight _two_ super saiyans back-to-back and sample super saiyan energy. Even Frieza himself had to wait a whole year before gettng his second fight with another super saiyan. 19 was also the most loyal android and---along with Gero, was one of Toriyama's _original_ choices for the main villains of the Android Saga...Plus, I just really like characters who can absorb energy.
52:32 Cell's first Genki Dama was Budokai 1 I believe. I remember him saying "Alright planet, give me that stupid energy!" before performing it lol
we love Stupid Energy
@@toughmangaming8275 who doesn’t! Lol
Excellent video btw, I really enjoyed it.
Man you are underated as hell, an hour and a half long video on the androids and you cover a lot of different materials, your way of speaking is also very calming ngl. (Also 21 mentioned 🙏🙏)
Thank you so much!
I like Cell's lore better in Kai, where he said a single cell survived his explosion so that Cell can regenerate from just a single cell instead of what was said in Z of him having a "core" or "nucleus" that needs to remain undamaged.
why did i watch this entire video even though i’ve literally never consumed DB-related content in my actual whole life
Never too late to pick it up!
It's pretty well-estsblished that 19 and 20 WERE meant to be Androids and that editorial meddling led to the creations of 17, 18, 16, and Cell.
The person that cause the change was not the current editor but a former one. I wouldn't call it executive meddling since it was a personal call and not an official one.
I like to believe cell lied to them about the core giving them false hope that if they destroy the core it’s game over when in reality it does nothing
Simple reason why Cell beats Android 13 is that Cell can also use the spirit bomb so even if he was weaker he could just do what goku did in the movie
This is an interesting take! I would love to see this fight
Can't use spirit bomb when you are evil tho
@@constantinethecataphract5949 no you can Cell says in the manga that he could probably make one if he wanted to he just never needed it
10:30 hachi means eight and in some contexts is just shortened to ha like hapun(8 minutes) chan is an affectionate honorific
Pretty presumptuous to assume we know enough about souls in dragon ball (or even at all really,) to say that Dr. Gero needed to create them for his Artificial humans, he might try to claim he did, but I think it's more like if it "lives," it has an opportunity to develop one.
I dont know why they didnt just make it so every cell in cell's body can regenerate. Thats what i always thought.
because his regeneration comes from his namekian DNA which utilizes a Core system (though thanks to Freiza DNA, his core can survive injuries that a namekian core would die from).
Its mainly because it'll be a waste of energy.
And an alternative is that his brain is bigger and more spread out than just in his head, even if the major functions are in his head.
1:26:45 That's a reference to Shin Godzilla. Cell Max is basically Shin Godzilla, but Cell
People really love long videos, especially about stuff they like so you did a great job at making one of them
I really enjoyed it
Thank you so much! I really appreciate it, I'm hoping to have some more longer videos in the future!
I thought 19 is also like 20 and you can see his brain.
In GT, it appeared that Gero removed the red orbs which may be transferred into the final design of Super 17. There are several close ups to his palm revealing he lacks an energy absorber.
Trunks saying that 19 and 20 are coming is not a VIZ moment and even the anime specifically adapted the original scene where Trunks claimed 20 and 19 will be coming to take everyone's life. When the Androids appeared, Toriyama's former editor thought they are a joke and Toriyama retconned the scene creating a plothole. After that ironically, 17 and 18's reveal caused his at the time current editor to complain which promptly got us Cell. It is also that editor that wanted Toriyama to change the design of Cell despite being final saying something like "At least he will transform soon." causing Cell from a cool lizard bug to be another transforming villain like Frieza which originally wasn't planned.
I think it was implied that the future counterparts held back as 17 mentioned he held back in battle before finishing Gohan.
Kinda funny you mentioned 16 blowing himself up as an iconic moment because I don't remember it. But now I recall him being blown up. His most iconic moment to me is being stepped on by Cell to trigger Gohan to get serious.
I think specifically regarding Cell, in his imperfect form he didn't have a unique ki signature but his ki basically the ki of the characters he is composed off. And when he executed an attack, the power of the attack matched the power of said fighter at the time. At least that is what it felt like to me. It would kinda explain why Cell would stop using moves of other characters before reaching his semi-perfect form (except maybe solar flare because it doesn't matter how strong the attack is).
After exploding, Cell really seemed to have gotten the ultimate plot convenient power up:
- survives his own self-destruct
- keeps his perfect form despite not having 18 in his body
- gets a zenkai
- LEARNs instant transmission
- the reason he survived is a plothole fixed by the English translation of the anime because his core was blown up by Goku earlier as it is in his head. Goku blew away the entire head. And it gets confirmed again in the Boo Saga as Piccolo states he can regenerate as long as his head is unharmed.
I am impressed Toriyama managed to do that in a way nobody is bothered by it.
In several Video Games, Cell does use the Spirit Bomb. One of them being the first Tenkaichi.
Funny thing is, the reason the Cell Jr's might be able to stop Final Flash is also because Cell trained apparently and probably knows how to handle the Final Flash. Those his Cell Jrs might have adapted that feature. Simply put, I think the Cell Jrs are identical copies to Cell having almost the same amount of power and abilities (except absorption maybe and regeneration in the anime).
Funny thing about 14 and 15 is that after Toriyama named them, Toei mixed up their names. 14 is actually 15 and 14 is actually 15. The smaller one has some personality I like is that after Vegeta turned Super Saiyan, he took a sip of his bottle. I love it.
Apparently at the time, Broli is stated to be the strongest after his movie came out. Many consider Broli to be weaker than Cell tho I disagree. So I assume many consider Super 13 fodder to Cell Saga characters. Probably the strongest character of the main cast is Piccolo at the time of the movie.
My headcanon is that after killing Gero in Super 13, 17 and 18 joined a skater gang and no further conflict took place in the series.
I think in terms of character Super 17 is very underrated. He suppose to be a killing machine with no emotion but when we see 18 appear, we see Super 17 actually showing that there is more to him than a mindless robot who follows orders. His personality is identical to 17 and his interaction with 18 show that deep down he doesn't want to kill her. If you watch when brainwashed 17 went to kill Krillin, Hell Fighter ordered him to met him but despite that 17 decided to have 18 join him. When he attacked to finish her off, he actually spared her life which 18 believed is because of the bomb inside her. Super 17 appears to not know why he spared her, it must be some psychological thing and I kinda like it. GT had a few of these like when Goku used Kamehameha times 10 to kill the 7 Star Dragon but subconsciously held back because he would be killing Pan. Also I feel Super 17 has the coolest moments in fights. When absorbing ki blasts from Goku, he is vibing. The beat down of the Z Fighters look fire, and after each action scene he cares about how cool he looks.
We don't know if Hell Fighter 17 could absorb or not. He might have had functions we don't know about. I think it is a major misconception that many believe Hell Fighter, just because he looks like 17, is the exact same model. But he is build with Machine Mutant technology, he can fight GT Vegeta who believes 17 powered up beyond believe in the original translation and he has the ability to awaken the original 17's hidden powers which apparently suppose to be higher than Cell's. Which Cell? Considering everyone in Hell know each other, it must be Super Perfect Cell. While it might come off as dumb, I think it is reasonable as Gero shut down the Project and it is likely that Cell could not access 17's full power at all.
Super 17 cannot sense energy but he can sense the vibration on the air and forsee his enemies moves which is why Goku had to resort to using Ki Blasts as it appeared that he cannot dodge those. Sadly, Super 17 purposely took down and Goku had to result to a trick he used against Yakon.
Even in the Perfect Files they make a fuss about Super 17 being able to predict movements of his opponents and the only time he was caught off guard was because of his own attack, where Goku was able to instant transmission to grab him for a self-destruct move. Super 17 prevented both from dieing by using his shield.
Dragon Ball Online had a lot of Androids apparently where also Cell X originated and apparently there is stuff like Android 19000.
Thanks so much for coming back and pointing this stuff out, friend! I like your takes about GT and the clarifications about some of the things that seem to be retcons/inconsistencies!
@@toughmangaming8275 I am glad you like them. Before there was a dub I could understand, I started watching GT in Japanese with subtitles so I am often dealing with people who think Gero and Mu made an identically weak 17 to merge and their power just "doubled".
I wrote a review on the movie Super 13 where I talked about how unrealistic the transformation of 13 is after absorbing and it has to be because they were copying stuff from the source material repackaged. But thinking now, I wonder (the writers probably didn't think that far) if the other 2 Androids could do the same. It seems weird that an outdated model would have more features and is superior to later models by that much.
Generally my opinion on Super 13 movie is, it should have been a prequel arc for the android Saga as filler and let the lesser characters fight them and maybe win. The anime had the opportunity to let Bulma get pro-active to wish to know the location of Gero's location only to waste the wish prematurely leading to the events playing out worse than in the future. And these androids could have been a teaser how powerful the real deal is. Maybe Goku could have intervened at some point and defeat the most powerful by a hair without needing to transform. Meh, maybe that was unneeded talk.
But then it makes you wonder why Gero chose to become a weak energy absorbing model android over whatever 17 and 18 are, since they appear to be far more superior. I feel the story did not a good job in explaining this as Gero did appear to believe 17 and 18 are capable of defeating Vegeta, but chose to become what looks to me a lesser version.
And I just recalled that Super Dragon Ball Heroes World Mission introduced 2 more Super 17 variation. One of them looks swole because he absorbed 19... or was it 16? I don't know. He did absorb both at some point.
He also has Frieza and Cold's DNA. Them bois are durable
When it comes to power sources, I always find it fascinating to think about the characteristics Gero was designing for. From my ponderings I always end up thinking about "Maximum Output" (What the maximum output of ki/power that the power source and put out), "Output Control" (How well the output of a power source can be adjusted), Output Efficiency (This is a bit of a weird one; its the idea of how efficiently a power source can put out from its reserves/stamina at different levels of output. Kind of like how cars have different fuel efficiencies for different speeds, I imagine some power sources can be efficient at all levels of output, some are inefficient as they move away from max output, and those that get more inefficient as they approach max output), Rest Max Capacity (The level of stored energy a power source would rest at without external influxes, basically a full tank. Or in the case of Energy Absorption the level that an android will decay to without a constant source of Ki), and Recovery Speed (How quickly a power source can recover itself), and 'Characteristic Alteration' (Or if and how well these characteristics can be improved).
I also like to think the fact one of the cell Jrs could reflect the Final Flash, and the fact they are 'tamed' later... Is proof that they're iterations of Cell rather than clones, possibly with forced mutations. More head cannon, is that they aren't like animals, but the genetics for socialization were probably streamlined to make the genome more stable. After all Gero could have used programs to condition Cell during development and gestation. But again, just casual head cannon. Anyways, fun video!
I feel like im the only one who thinks imperfect cell is the best design out of the three forms
Even as a kid I hated how Cell became more humanlike. I know that it was done to make it easier to draw, but I really wanted it to become more monstruous, like at his perfect form he becomes some sort of queen who keeps giving birth to lesser copies of himself, 8 y.o. me was so bummed when it turned into a tournament arc.
That seems to be a fairly popular opinion from what I've seen.
I've seen a lot of people claim for either perfect or imperfect cell. Though I've never heard anybody say they like Semi-perfect as their favorite besides Toriyama.
This is a based take, he definitely has the most unique design in that form!
Imperfect cell has always been my favorite and my main in Budokai Tenkaichi 2 and 3 (I didn’t play very fair 💀)
YEAH, FIRST FORM, PERFECT, OR EVEN LARVAL ARE BETTER
gotta say, I love this. I will continue to consume Toughman gaming content
Perfect video, already finished and enjoyed a lot, well written, narrated and executed :) !
Thank you!
On the point of future 17 and 18 being weaker than the main timeline versions, it's fairly safe to say that Trunks just never knew their actual full power since they're only ever toying with him and Gohan, they are the android's entertainment until they get bored of them(as seen by the death of Gohan; they broke their toy, gotta throw it out)
Whoa that actually makes more sense
56:20 I dont know if it counts but in Budokai Tenkaichi 3, the move where he shoots out red energy balls in his Semi-Perfect form to destroy islands to find 18 was shown to be his version of Vegeta's Big Bang Attack, the Big Bang Crash
That's interesting! I usually don't include video game movesets as they're typically combos or ki blasts from the main series, but that's pretty fun!
This probably isn't canon, but in dbz kakarot, when rematching cell after reviving him, he says he lied about the core thing entirely as to keep his enemies guessing
Doesn't make much sense, the only people that learned that was gohan and co. When they already had seen him lose his head, and it didn't even help him at all as he died some minutes later xd
This is pretty interesting!
Peak
Hella good video, enjoyed the detail and thought brought in. Quick correction though for 20:00, I assume you're speaking of the 17 and 18 from the present timeline considering you mentioned their hunting game for Goku; it's actually a point in the series that other than Dr. Gero, 17 and 18 never actually killed anyone unlike their future selves.
This video was very good, my want to finish it single-handedly made me finally watch superhero
Wow that chibi infographic brings back memories
I watched 21 minutes but I didn't even realize it. This is a great video and TH-cam needs you bless your channel already
In dbz kakarot (even though it’s not canon) Cell says how he was lying when he said the core was in his head
Great vid. Totally agree with your thoughts on Cell being ssj
this video was awesome! super informative and well scripted, you deserve way more subscribers!
Thank you! I really appreciate it!
Music is a little too loud at the start but tbh excited to give this a listen.
1:34, haha he said Goku instead of gohan
You actually missed one form for Cell. In the Dragonball Online game there is a quest where you take on a giant more insect-ish sorta queen-bee looking version of Cell. But this video was very in depth and enjoyable otherwise! ^-^
Yeah I knew he had something from DB Online, I wasn't sure if it was the same as the Cell X from heroes, but thanks for pointing it out!
Amazing. Thank you. I’ve loved 17 for about 20+ years
I always thought that Cell was able to move his "core" inside his body. As in, it doesn't necessarily have to be in his head and could really be moved anywhere within his body, either by instinct or consciously. Which is why he's able to survive with his head and upper body being blown off by Goku, while making the statement about the core "being inside his head" a true statement at that moment
I always knew cell was a walking super saiyan 24/7
Main reason goku and gohan trained the super saiyan by leaving it on so it can be more of its natural state.
My head-canon is Gero was able to make such powerful androids with 17 and 18 because mecha-freeza showing up on earth, allowing Gero to reference the data
I love Android 17 and Android 18. I want Android 17 to be more involved with the Z-Fighters, and I really want to see Android 17 fight alongside Piccolo as a cool dynamic of how they fought each other and now they are fighting side by side. I also want to see Android 18 train and become stronger on the level of her brother and Goku and Vegeta, just up there with the big boy, because I know that she is a wife and a mother now and has a lot of responsibilities, but I just don't want her to be made a second rate lesser character like Tien and Piccolo because she also has infinite energy and stamina and has a lot of promise and capability to become a stronger and more serious threat. I also want to see Android 18 use force fields just like her brother.
I just can’t believe humans could create beings by default stronger than Namik saga Frieza.
I mean it's pretty much been stated that literally anybody can reach these levels of power through training. It's not particularly surprising that similar feats could be achieved through science. Bulma literally created a time machine.
Now a fatass made Jiren soloers
I'm pretty sure that 17 18 and 16 exist becouse of Dragon Ball's editors. They were not happy with the "fat guy and old guy", so Toriyama made 17 and 18, but they were "just brats" so he made 16... ans then cell, who also had to evolve to look cooler
Oh you said it in the cell section, sorry!
@@Seloliva1015 You're all good! Maybe I should've put it in the 19/20 section, but I felt like it was more fitting for Cell as it's sort of the origin for his character
I argue Cell is not in super saiyan. That, or he's super saiyan at all times, and only shows his aura when powered up, like grade 4 super saiyan. Otherwise, he should be much stronger if he can go toe to toe against super namekian piccolo, and then go 50x stronger in their rematch
His SSJs stem from the Perfect form, not necessarily the others
17:57 - 18:36 About Trunks calling the androids of his future 19 and 20, turns out that was in the Japanese version as well. The weirder thing is that not just the translations, but not even reprintings of the Japanese version ever bothered correcting it.
That's crazy, thanks for highlighting it!
I dont know if this is true just my head cannon because of butterfly effect 20 and 19 probaly being\becoming androids because of trunks time traveling mabye im wrong or probably
Since Gero models the purely artificial androids after things from his life, like 19 being that doll on a RR base, and 16 being his son, It's likely that 13, 14, and 15 are also people he's known. Likely all RR members from different parts of the world given all their distinct appearances. Could've died before or after Goku's attack on RR, but he made androids to commemorate them.
That would be pretty cool!
There's a theory that 13 base form is based on the younger version of himself
@@whenthe59 That'd be cool
Oh, look, a 1h40 video about Dragon Ball that i can sleep to, thank you for this ❤
I wonder if 19 and 20 eye lasers are a reference to Dio because they're like "vampire" androids.
I’m pretty sure the androids came first, correct me if I’m wrong though
I hadn't realized until you said it that Cell Semi-perfect didn't have wings, it blew my mind, I had to look at it on Google Images and I honestly didn't believe it XD.
Dude I love your videos, thank you for making them this long they are perfect for me🙏
Thank you so much!
Maybe Android 8 Was Restored But Not 16 Because He Counted As "Technology" Rather Than An Alive Being
In The Cell Saga They Never Wished To Repair The Damage Made By Cell, Only Resurrect The People, While In The Buu Saga They Wished The Whole Planet Back, Which Of Course Included The Houses, Cities, Computers, Vehicles, Technology In General, Etc (Man Made Stuff) And Not Just The Natural "Empty" Planet Itself
Basically, If Wishing Back Earth Restored Your House, Tv, Computer And Fridge That It Was Destroyed By Buu, Then It Sure Can Also Restore Android 8
Imagine talking about Cell's Spirit Bomb and NOT mentioning his use of it as an Ultimate in the Budokai games. And his harnessing of STUPID energy, destroying his opponent with the combined might of all Twitter users.
Okay so Heroes gets a little nuttier for Super 17
Not only does Super 17 absorb 18
He manages to absorb Android 16 becoming immensely swole
He also at one point, in the biggest form of irony ever, manages to absorb Cell
Guess his absorption really was beyond Gero's expectations
Cause he absorbed not only a perfect being and his sister
He also absorbed 16 who is a purely artifical being
Something Cell couldn't do in his dreams
Also you mention Xenoverse. In that game Cell wonders what would happen if he absorbed 17 and 18 again in his current state implying he's still capable of absorbs people even with his tail gone
And within the game Dragon Ball Fusion there is some exclusive fusion between rhe Androids. Android 17 and Android 18 become....Android 1718. Android 16 and 17 become Android 1617. Cell and 17 become Cell 17. 16 and Cell become Perfect 16. 19 and 20 become 1920. Arale and 18 become Arale 18. And Cell & Frieza become Cellza.
Came here from the "how to the dragon balls work" video. Wanted to say awesome content. Subscribed and looking forward to whats next.
Cell lost to plot armor (a good plot armor but plot armor nonetheless)
I like to imagine that TOP would of been better if cell was brought back instead of frieza
Best video of its nature ever created on the entire internet
Just coming back to leave a second comment I hope this helps! Your work gets me through my job 😂❤ amazing video
Thank you and food luck, friend!
I've always wondered what the other Androids that are never shown looked like. 1-7 and 9-12 were completely artificial, but Gero could not control their personalities: too dark, too stupid, too nice, etc. These units have design flaws or other problems, which lead to them being scrapped.
My head cannon Major Metallitron is “Android 4” due to his many similarities in design with Android 16, and because 4² = 16.
According to Dragon Ball Online Android 9, an artificial replica of Commander Red. Android 9 was an entirely mechanical Android constructed by Dr. Gero at some point following the Red Ribbon Army's defeat but possessed a problem and so was destroyed. So take it will a grain of salt.
9 and the androids that follow were created with the sole intention of killing Goku. However, like 1 through 7, 9 through 12, all have problems, which eventually lead to them being scrapped.
It would be cool if we had designs for the unseen ones.
Also, about Cell having the lowest kill count... Vegeta only kills a planet in contentious anime filler. In manga canon, he literally kills nobody on earth (Nappa did all of it), and in the Namek saga only kills a Namekian village. He also kills a few drivers in his fight with 18, and part of a stadium crowd as Majin Vegeta.
Cell definitely has a bigger kill count than Vegeta, at least for onscreen events.
This is probably true, however we do know that Vegeta has mentioned that he's slaughtered quite a bit of folks even in the manga. Thanks for the take though!
Cell fun fact: Based on an optional pre-fight interaction with Goku in Dragon Ball FighterZ's Enemy Warriors Arc, Cell's experience in the afterlife is indescribably traumatic. No official statements I'm aware of have clarified what Cell's Hell is canonically like, but it's so awful he refuses to explain it to Goku, and tells Goku to "use your imagination" in regards to what goes on there.
This implies it is nothing like the Hell seen in Z filler and movies or in GT, though based on the Resurrection "F" version of Frieza's afterlife, those were already dubiously canon.
Great work, man!
Random dumb head canon. Cells core moves. It's in his stomach area in his perfect form and in his head in his semi perfect form. Could also explain the damage that Gohan's stomach blow did to make him regurgitate 18.
Not bad I like this
I kind of like the idea that 19 and 20 are the ones who showed up in Future Trunk's timeline at the date and time he gave.
Most of the Z fighters wouldn't be aware of the massacre until either Bulma calls them or they hear about it in the news. Gohan, Piccolo, and Vegeta would be the strongest of the fighters. Bulma probably tells her husband first, who might be the only one to respond to the South City incident, thinking it something easily taken care of by himself. He takes out 19 similarly and chases Gero to his lab where he activates 17 and 18, who presumably take out Gero and Vegeta. Piccolo maybe shows up shortly after, sensing things through Kami, gets killed very shortly after Vegeta. Then Gohan and later Trunks have few means of knowing that 19 and 20 destroyed South City, not 17 and 18, and it wouldn't particular matter that 19 and 20 got things rolling in the end anyways.
Thank you for zooming in on among us when talking about android 16
18:23 - It actually was a change in chapters after the production. Toriyama's former editor Kazuhiko Torishima disproved of Androids 19 and 20 as the main antagonist's of the arc. Kazuhiko also lead to the creation of Cell as well as he was also displeased by Android 17 and 18.
This channel is my roman empire (I thought I already commented that)
Ah, the perfect video to fall asleep to. Thanks TH-cam
Good stuff my guy. 👍
3:36 - The Power Supply isn't just common trait, its a necessity of design. Ki energy comes from living things, so in a sense "sensing Ki" is basically sensing the energy given off by living things. Because Mechanical beings aren't "alive" in that sense, they have no ki. It's also why Gero makes the Cyborgs amongst the models because he needs the bio material for the Ki potential. Android is a term that really comes from the dub.
In Dragon Ball, merely having a metal man was enough to deal with most of the planet. Basically imagine even a skilled martial artist fighting a terminator. But with Goku and the direction the conflict goes and with Ki attacks increasing in threat Ki usage becomes a necessity. 18 and 17 are actually mostly human except for their Power Supplies, likely somewhere near 90%. This is why she can conceive.
ballin, also love android 8
So. Not only did Xenoverse have a Spirit Bomb, but during Budokai and Infinite World all have Spirit Bomb moves.
I would’ve loved if Cell participated in the Tournament of Power
54:35 I always applied the head-cannon that gero modified cells Regeneration to be better then piccolos. Say in a way he’s able to regenerate from anything. Idk why they never used this or tori his self as an explanation.
"She's WHOSE mommy???" Mine, gamer
Wow, great job with this video!
17:38 i always thought the same events happen in order but with Goku catching the heart virus at home while the androids was blowing the city and the z fighterz had to fly out after Goku died, Vegeta prolly had to handle 19 as a super saiyan and then Gero unleashed 17 and 18. I also thought that since Goku was dead they couldn't fulfill and that they also didn't have 16 with them is what made a difference
There were 76 issues between Android 8's final appearance and the first appearance of 19 & 20.
Rest in power levels toriyama
Cells reveals in dbz: kakarot that he might not be entirely honest about revealing his regeneration core; also insisting hes just not going to explain his abilities too clearly. Showing that his dna is far more capable then he let on.
Only 5k subs is a crime this was amazing
Cell Max's laser beams from every spot in his body are actually inspired by Shin Godzilla, who has a similar move in that respective movie.
This whole time I thought the scientist from the filler segment of the original Dragon Ball _was_ Dr. Gero (I didn't remember his name so I assumed he was the same guy) and I was _so confused_ as to how that sweet old guy turned into a megalomaniac in the Android saga.
A in depth analysis of the 3 major timelines would be a hard video to.
Is that a challenge?
Jk, it would be a fun video but it would probably take a LONG time, especially when we consider how Super added a bunch of more timelines.
Bless this channel 🙏🏽
They really stretched the definition of what an “android” is
Yeah they did...
To be fair, it's more of a dub thing. In the original, they were called "artificial human" or something like that.
@@masterprick1in Japanese they use the phrase "Jinzo Ningen" which basically means Artificial Human or Artificial Mortal
@@masterprick1 Ah, cyborgs, clearly befitting the definition of "artificial humans"
@@samuelrocandiobenito7924 Moreso than android. "Artificial Human" is a made-up term while android has a clear definition.
Probably you go into it later, but i think the most logical take away from 17/18 is they have some kind of zero point power source or something like that drawing energy out of subspace, which means they have infinite energy to draw on, but are limited by a max bandwidth or output at any given time.
Which maybe if they were more clever about it, they could use that energy to store in an external form some how to draw out more to kinda cheat their beyond maximums.