So here’s my thoughts on the opening scene. Corvo has been through hell and back low or high chaos to get Emily back and put back in power. It’s the anniversary of jessamines (idk if I spelt that right lol) death so he’s reliving that day he was unable to protect her. Then his daughter is threatened in an another coup. So corvo thinks “I’m not making the same mistakes” and just cuts the threat to Emily down immediately. I don’t think arkane was trying to invalidate or alienate the low chaos players but rather show that corvo fears losing Emily as he did jessamine. I loved dishonoured 2 and this analysis I’m loving just as much. Keep up the great work
i remember there was this one really interesting line from Emily in the game, where she wonders out loud what she'll do if, upon her return, she finds out Delilah has been a better empress than she ever was... of course, it turns out Delilah *isn't* better, and so Emily can take back the throne from her with a clean conscience (at least low chaos Emily can)... but that line really stuck with me, because it made me think about how interesting it would've been if that had actually been the case, or something like it. what would Emily have done, if she had been cast from the throne *not* by a singular cackling villain, but by the people, who'd grown tired of her and tired of the system that put her in power? i think that would've made for a really fascinating and complex story, and possibly a very powerful character arc for Emily as she goes from resenting the people who cast her from the throne to understanding that perhaps this thing she's been so desperately trying to get back never should've been hers in the first place. personally i think that would've been more interesting than the fairly simple "take back what's yours" storyline we got... though granted, that *is* the literal tagline of the game. thanks for the thought-provoking video, i'm looking forward to hearing your take on Death of the Outsider!
That would've been interesting but sadly the majority of the gaming industry (especially the big boys..) wouldn't like such a story since most people don't like stories where you play the villain. Still, if there were to be a story like that I think it'd work best if Emily wasn't actually a bad guy in the story but more like what would've happened in the Loyalists had gotten their way, a figurehead and scapegoat where the ones in actual control are her advisors and generals. It could probably go down two general paths probably with two factions you could work for and join, royalists and abolitionists, possibly with a middle-ground where you can work for both. One thing that should be avoided though would be to paint either side as inherently the good or bad side and have that be more decided by the actions of the player and if they weed out the corruption and greed that is in either or both factions. I hear Fable 3 did a decent job with that, with you having to chose between taking support from shady characters who give more resources and the people who cannot give as much to help you win back your throne.
But that’s completely undercut by Delilah herself. The first thing Delilah does when she arrives is to start executing members of the watch that are loyal to the crown. She didn’t even give them a chance to switch sides. She just got there and started murdering people. I don’t care if she might happen to be better at the economic and logistic policies of empire building when she murdered 20 people in front of my eyes. I agree that hereditary monarchy is far from ideal governmental form but Delilah is a bloodstained tyrant and that’s way worse.
One of the great limitations put on video game storytelling is the expectation that your goal is to "win". Novels and films are free to explore the tragic and melancholy side of human experience, plans going awry, good intentions coming to nothing; but if you play to the end of a AAA game, you expect to get a reward, save the princess, save the world, be a hero. Very few games have managed to break that mould, Metro 2033, for example. Many players might reach the end of an Emily low chaos playthrough, find her waxing introspective about her own fitness and desire to rule, and finally abdicating, and feel cheated.
@@StephenYuanCause games are different, we are not reading. We are putting ourselves in the game, we are dedicating time, we are using our brain to solve problems, trudging through hours of trial and error, we are not passive observers. We are putting effort in the game, and when games end up not "winning" even if the story is great, it does not feel satisfying, as we did not just watch a story unfold, unlike a book.
@@brandonmurguia7566 I think you might have misunderstood the point of my original comment. The point was not "I think Delilah was morally right all along" or "The game would've been better if they'd just slapped a DELILAH GOOD twist at the very end" - the point was to reimagine a different, more complex version of the story where Delilah *isn't* simply a "bloodstained tyrant", as you put it. I specifically adressed this in my original comment when I said; "What would Emily have done, if she had been cast from the throne *not by a singular cackling villain,* but by the people, who'd grown tired of her and the system that put her in power?"
Weird, I could have sworn Low Chaos Emily gradually remarks more and more during the urban levels on how out of touch she has been with the common folk, and vows to be better once back in Dunwall. Maybe not during the first few levels, but around the time of the Conservatory or before Abele's mansion. I'll have to return and check for myself. Anyway, even though I may not agree with Arkane's dropping the ball on the class warfare narrative (I thought it was the story of the game, clearly front and center), I thought your video was very interesting and well-made, and I'm eager to watch all the others.
She definitely does remark on the classism around her, but to me that wasn't enough. She doesn't take adequate action to address those issues by the end of the game. As I say, she should know better by the end that being a 'good ruler' just isn't going to cut it. I can see why that's probably a step too far for folks who aren't in my particular political camp though. Thank you for your kind words as well! :)
@@EricCrosby I can see why that wasn't enough for you (and I would say we're in the same camp), I think I I saw the ending as less definitive maybe than you did (my interpretation may not be supported by the actual content). I was hopeful there was meaningful change ahead (and not just an enlightened absolutist) thanks to this character arc.
@@upselo6331 At the very least my feel of it was that Emily would work to ensure that abuse of the lower classes would be punished and prevented as much as could from her position. Of course it'd still exist, perfection is an impossibility but at the least she'd be a benevolent monarch. Fun fact, though today the term dictator is associated with evil and corrupt leadership back in the Roman days it was not. Back then to be dictator meant to be 'the one who dictates' aka rules the empire as sole leader and though they had their share of shitty emperors they had quite some good ones as well. I see Emily similarly, she wants to do good but has grown complacent, not knowing the suffering of her people and because she doesn't know she doesn't act. Plus, besides the speaker systems there doesn't seem to be any good ways of long distance communication so unlike in our time news would take a lot of time to spread and even if it would reach her it'd likely pass through multiple points which could edit it before passing it along, if they even do.
@@EricCrosby I see the ending as almost a bigger message, the upper and ruling class sees the problems with the lower class, and they understand people exploit them. By arkane not showing growth or any change it’s almost a message about how real it is that the ruling class simply doesn’t care. Of course it might not be fully intentional but I think it shows the reality of it rather then a feel good end of “we will do better now” if that’s not how it really ever happens
I will definitely agree with the sentiment that Dishonored 2 feels like an unfinished gem of a game. The Crown Killer was set up in the prologue and in mission one that they were this threat to Emily's rulel and they seemed like they'll play a bigger part of dishonored 2's story (at least to me and a friend of mine) and by the end of mission 2, the crown killer is just done and dealt with with no big huzzah for the most part. With this game having the story done over two characters kinda makes me feel like there was some compromises done to its quality, despite this one feeling like it was moreso to be Emily's game.
Great video, you deserve more views and got my sub! That said, 2 points related to the beginning. i) Corvo is voiced by Stephen Russell who also voiced Garrett, the protagonist of the Thief games. The casting was a conscious decision by Arkane, paying homage to the original inspiration for both Covo and Dishonoured. ii) You found it a slap in the face to see Corvo kill people in the into. I rather think it would have been ridiculous if he hadn't, since his daughter's life was in close and immediate danger. You didn't expect him to be sleep darting or choking out every usurper in the throne room, did you? Or ask them politely to stop? What about the clockwork soldiers butchering the assembly? He should just stand there and do nothing? No. Corvo killing during the intro is absolutely in character and justified, both as Emily's father and Lord Protector of the Empress, and I say that as someone who prefers non lethal.
I've said this on other comments so I'll keep it brief: my point about Corvo killing in the intro isn't that it is out of character, but that the choice to kill should have been in the player's hands. *My* version of Corvo is a strict pacifist even if others may not be. Even if you're a full lethal high chaos player, it's just more impactful to have the first kill be a conscious choice on the player's part.
@@EricCrosby Pacifism has its limits, especially for a bodyguard and Corvo is a bodyguard. There's one thing to avoid killing if at all possible (Dishonored1), but if a bodyguard does not immediately take care of the guy trying to stab the one he's trying to protect, he would b a bad bodyguard to sat the least. You can also consider that those killings would be legal in real life in a lot of jurisdictions, even if Corvo and Emily were regular people. Any other killing, on the other hand, would most likely be illegal.
Let's also not forget that the first game also opens like this, you protect the Empress for a bit by killing the whalers, or at least trying to, until one of them lifts you up. The main weapon is a pistol, a lethal weapon, I believe the intro drew a paralel from the first game. Maybe if the choice of playing as either Emily or Corvo would have been a few minutes earlier and prompted you as Emily, to stand and watch and as Corvo to protect, once again, the Empress, all players would have been satisfied. (It would've also been interesting to see the coup from both of their perspectives tbh)
@@bibss9337 thing is, the game allowed you to be nonlethal, it was a choice if you wanted to kill the whalers, you couldve just simply blocked with your sword instead
Great video. I've been consuming every Dishonored essay I can find and just watched your first and second vids back to back. Your Dishonored 1 video is one of the best ones I've seen on the topic, it probably has the best layout/organization of ideas in any Dishonored essay. You hit all the common talking points while still maintaining a good flow to the video which I know is not an easy feat. And the opening quote of "Dishonored is the greatest game I have ever played. It is not my favorite game, nor is it perfect, but it is the greatest" is just fantastic. What a great way to put it. When I heard that I knew I was in for a treat. I imagine this video was much harder to assemble than the first. Dishonored 2 is such a tough game to examine, it's so good but also it's like, so bad, you know? Now for some thoughts on this video. Please understand that this is just meant as a constructive critique based on my personal tastes. Not trying to be rude, I just felt compelled to spell out my thoughts after watching the video: -The development history segment feels unnecessary, it may because I have already seen the NoClip documentary but I just kinda zoned out until you started talking about the game proper. Granted, this section of the video only took up like 2 minutes max, so to somebody who didn't already know the behind the scenes info it was probably more engaging. Imo, the only part of this section that truly needed to be included was the part about the middling reception the game received, so as to set the scene for your more critical tone in this video compared to the first. -The stylish chapter names are a nice touch, that kind of extra care really adds to the overall presentation. -Good use of gameplay footage, the video always matches what you are talking about in the voiceover. This is a lot of extra work compared to just letting longer gameplay clips run in the background, but it is greatly appreciated by people like me who watch the video instead of just listening to it like a podcast. Also, crossfades between every clip is a good touch, that must have been very annoying but it is pleasant to watch. -This doesn't really matter for a video like this where the voiceover contains all the content, and it depends on your PC specs more than anything, but using jittery/low fps footage is really annoying lol. But I know this just a Dishonored 2 issue. The game still doesn't run smoothly on my rig either, and tbh the janky footage in this video just further drives home the point about the games lack of optimization, so it may actually work in this video's favor. Just something to consider for future videos where the game you're playing actually runs properly. I would prioritize smooth framerate over graphical settings when recording for TH-cam. -I don't think you need to make such a big deal about prefacing your political commentary with a disclaimer. Everyone has their own opinion, and as long as you slip in a quick "but this is just my reading of the game, if you have a different take let me know in the comments" somewhere I think most people understand, even if they disagree with what you're saying. If anybody actually gets offended over a Dishonored video essay, you just gotta accept that the occasional asshole in the comments will always exist, it's best just to shadowban them and move on -The only think I strongly disagree with was your opinion on A Crack in the Slab. It is a neat gimmick to be sure, but as somebody who played D1 like 40 times, my initial reaction to that level, even on my first playthrough when it was fresh and exciting, was "oh god I am gonna hate having to do this every time I play the game". I realize "makes playthrough number 17 kinda boring for 4 minutes" doesn't really seem like a valid complaint to the average person who does at most 2 playthroughs, but despite the fact that it's objectively an amazing level, it's probably my least favorite segment out of all the Dishonored games, to the point where I kill Stilton every time now just out of spite. For being your first couple of uploads, these videos are very well done. I never would have guessed you were a new channel based on the video's quality; they feel like something somebody who's been doing this for 2 or 3 years would put out. You earned a sub from me, and I'm looking forward to what you create in the future.
Thank you so much for the feedback! I'm always looking to improve my videos so I'll definitely take these things into account. With regards to the low fps gameplay footage - it bothers me a lot too. I spent a lot of time trying to recapture footage at 60fps but I just couldn't get every moment in the game. It's a shame, but it is representative of how the game was running for me. My PC is built for rendering and 3D so it's not an issue of my specs. The game really was just that inconsistent for me.
Yeah, Crack in the Slab (and the Delilah speech in the Void) completely breaks the flow of replays for me. That mission should have powers active in New Game+.
If the justification for a nonlethal corvo in d1 is "these soldiers are still loyal to the crown he's seeking to avenge" then him cutting down guards actively trying to stage a coup against his daughter and queen isnt immersion breaking in any capacity
Huh, I think you just helped me understand why--despite loving the game to death--Dishonored 2's ending always left me feeling a bit hollow. The failure to properly address the class issue leaves a lot to be desired. I understand Arkane's hesitation in trying to achieve broader appeal, but as you said, the immersive sim isn't really a broad appeal genre which I think should leave it open for more challenging stories.
Pretty sure the class conflict is not there to be addressed. This is a fantasy Victorian Age, and class conflict was part of it’s backdrop, just like in our Victorian Age. Since this is a video about gaming, I’ll refrain from commenting on the socialist view at the end, except to remind that looking at history from a Marxist perspective did not reflect the actual evolutions of Western society. In Europe, if not necessarily in the USA, class conflict abated with the rise of social democracy. It was a slow transformation that spanned more than a century, and in my opinion, the timeframe of the game is too small for such a transformation to be noticeable.
@@feastguy101 Agree with this -- I also think that the lore texts and environmental storytelling of Death of the Outsider, combined with playing as a disenfranchised person, makes it much clearer that Emily, though canonically a well-meaning monarch, cannot truly understand the suffering of the underclass. In one conversation with Megan/Billie, she talks about how she would go out at night on the rooftops to "see what life was like outside the castle walls," but she was still literally placing herself above the common folk. In one conversation with Billie, she even acknowledges her privilege by saying, "I used to wander Dunwall with my face hidden. But when I got tired of it, I could always go back to the Tower." And yet, in the end, she doesn't cede that power. She means well, and she And you can see the results of that return to the status quo through Billie's eyes in Death of the Outsider. I feel like, for a thoughtful player, the leftist (dare I say anarchist?) subtext is...well, barely even subtext. It's often just, you know, text. "An injury to one of us is an injury to all of us" is literally a modern-day talking point on class solidarity, and I loved seeing it in-game. It is disappointing that nothing ever comes of it, but...well, if Karnaca became a Marxist utopia, would there really be a lesson there, either? It feels to me that the lesson is that as long as a group of elites maintains power over the majority, there will never be justice or equality. But I'm an anarcho-syndicalist, so maybe I'm projecting. Edit: Also, am I the only one that noticed that Delilah's last name is "Copperspoon," which places her impoverished upbringing in direct contrast with Jessamine (and Emily's) privileged upbringing, as they were each "born with a silver spoon in her mouth?" I feel like these details are included to make the player empathize with her juuuust enough to question whether Emily is really the benevolent ruler we all like to think she will be.
@@JadeStone00 pretty much, but I took a different lesson altogether from it: no matter what happens, the majority will be ruled by an elite, and the quality and accountability of that elite largely determines how good to be a part of a society is going to be. But then again, I’m a liberal (Europe), so my takes are my own. Do love this world though. The atmosphere is something else. One of my favorites.
I also find it a little weird, that Emily now suddenly is a fighting protagonist. Unlike Corvo who was a bodyguard and had much experience in fighting, combat, stealth, finding targets and so on and so on Emily doesn't. It feels kinda hollow to suddenly give her these powers just so she can be the hero of the story.
@@jana731We find out in the game that she trained with Corvo for about 15 years, and she gets her void powers in exactly the same way as Corvo. I don’t understand the issue.
This vid made me realize in what I missed during Dishonored 2: the emotional connection between the main character and the rest of the cast. They are always in a world of their own and dont engage with the rest of the cast unless absolutely nessecary. The Hounds Pit of Dishonored started to feel like home. You could unlock things, explore the area and overhear dialog. I felt like Corvo belonged there, where Dishonored 2 felt rushed. I wish we had the options to talk to the NPC's we helped/saved and that Corvo/Emily was building a loyalist group of their own, their own council on how to right the wrongs that were commited. During the first mission of Emily's play through, you can find an audiogram in her bathroom which states "You're the ruler of four nations, and I won't pretend to understand the pressure you're under. Only you, and your mother before you, could know what that's like," This line perfectly telegraphs the differences in class and the inherrent rift between Emily and her people. The truth of the matter is, is that ruling is hard. I have been a policy worker at a govermnental institute and getting these institutes to adapt and change is a long term commitment. I am fine with Emily being privileged and not understanding the plight of the people. What I missed was the meaningful connections, from all walks of life, which they could have built to effective advice her on how to rule her empire and implement meaningful and longterm change.
The characters are less meaningful now, too At the beginning your character says you have to regroup, but the characters you collect aren't as meaningful as in the first game
I agree with you, Emily is much better suited for a low chaos, ghost playthrough than Corvo. I used Corvo for a high chaos and no powers run. Happy to say I have a platinum for this game. Not hard to do, but tedious as hell.
Funilly enough actually, it is apparently cannon and mentioned in either the books or the comics that Emily does exactly what you wanted, and dissolved the monarchy to stop the possibility of a future coup
As much as I have a love for Dishonored 2, I do have some pretty broad issues with Jindosh's non lethal takedown. Though the more I've thought about it I think I nailed it down to framing. If Jidosh had the same take down but was in Dishonored 1 I might not care as much, I would still be uncomfortable with it for sure but it would fit more into the cruel but fitting karmatic punishments the game gives out. Dishonored 1 really is not a game that considers mercy for your assassination targets. My issue with Jidosh springs more from how Dishonored 2 took the step from cruel punishments, to having the non lethal paths be over all good deeds. Saving Hypatia from her own madness, making sure the Dust District is cared for and protected. They are much more often framed as the better choice, which is what bothers me. Jindosh was lobotomized. Which I consider a horrific act. Much as people were insulted at Lady Boyle's non lethal because it was a cruel and forceful violation of her bodily autonomy, Jindosh's fate does the exact same thing. We rob him of himself, his own mind taken away from him. The very concept of having your entire identity stripped away is so viscerally horrifying having it frame as the "better option" it makes me a little sick. He was a terrible man but lobotomizing him as the better option feels wrong. Death in all honesty is a mercy.
If you stick around him after lobotomizing him, he asks the character to kill him, so even though his IQ was lowered to that of a six year old, he realizes the torture he will endure the rest of his life.
I pretty sure both are supposed to be terrible people. The woman wanted sex and was with a man of her own who killed the empress and spread the plage while the other was a scientist who sided with a witch to take over the empire. I do think it's a bit weird, but I guess she gets the sex she wanted as for the man, I don't think he's mind would... Well, re adjust for the good side. But in all honesty, it's not my game lol, so if they come out with better Solutions for those characters then, sure why not.
@@Fallen-Saint "The woman wanted sex..." Who there. Nothing else you said in that sentence makes that beginning OK. Even if you were trying to describe irony, that won't fly.
Actually, there was a novelization of Dishonored 2 that takes place after the main game in which there was a movement against Emily and the nobility, but the eventual conflict ended the movement when the leader of the movement saw how different Emily was and that she is in proper power to make actual changes for the lower class. There’s also the fact that Emily dissolved the Abbey after the Death of the Outsider. As helpful as they were in trying to stop the corruption of the void, they were fanatical enough that the lower class were always harmed by them, as well as them using sinister means in trying to cleanse the world from the void.
@@EricCrosby “Dishonored: The Peeress and the Price” It’s a two-issue comic series. For the Abbey situation, the only novel I know that discuss this was in “Dishonored: The Veiled Terror” which is the final installment of a trilogy, although I’m not sure if you need to read the previous two novels first. The first one was about Emily and Corvo taking place in between Dishonored 1 and 2, the second one was about Daud and what he did before his captured, and the third one was about Billie in the aftermath of the Death of the Outsider.
Depending on your choices in the game, you do actually change the outcome of the story. My favourite was a low chaos ending where I sided with the Howlers and non-lethally took down Abele. That way, you have a morally good character at the helm, supported by a character that knows the lowest and worst parts of the city.
i loved this video. dishonored 2 is my favourite video game ever. it’s hard to put into words how much it means to me - it was the game that got me into games, before i discovered it i was the type who just played shooters with my friends and that was it. dishonored 2 made me realise that video games can be an art, and they can be damn good art. this game also got me through a really rough time in my life when i didn’t really have much to live for and i hated where i was and everything around me. when i started up a playthrough of dishonored 2 i was transported into a different world and after some time it started to feel like a second home to me; i know karnaca as if it was the city i grew up in. all of the beauty and desolation in the setting became a place for me to escape to and to this day little things bring me as much comfort as the world arkane built in this game. i love the first dishonored as well, but i started with dishonored 2 and it has always been extra special to me. but despite everything i just said, i absolutely agree with all of your criticism. hearing these critiques from someone who also clearly loves this game makes them mean so much more. dishonored 2 could have been better, which is a crazy thing to say considering how much it got right. your political evaluation was spot on too; the dishonored world oozes class conflict, everything from the characters to the architecture to even the gameplay itself. this game was built alongside a horrifically unequal and unjust society, and the game shows it perfectly. just a glance at some of the buildings shows the class divide in the empire is sharp and bloodstained. i’ve always felt that dishonored 2’s ending could have been so much better. i maintain that dishonored 1’s story was objectively better despite my preference for the overarching world of the second game.
Honestly, my biggest gripe with the game is that it tried to add onto Corvo’s story rather than start a new one. I would’ve much preferred a stand-alone tale in Karnaca, with a new silent protagonist and a new set of powers. Hell, maybe you could’ve played as someone tied to Delilah, and that could’ve been the gateway to a deeper examination of her character.
I don’t know if others have told you this but Harvey Smith confirmed that the Heart contained Jessamines soul in the first game as well, it makes sense why Corvo wouldn’t be as shocked considering he had the Heart in the first game but the thing about Emily not being shocked is a genuine criticism.
thank you so much. ive seen a lot of dishonored video essays, and none of them went into detail of its extremely obvious political commentary. playing these games as a leftist felt so goddamn real, and i just wanted someone to put it into words.
It seems pretty obvious to me that Dishonored 1 and 2 both prominently feature the plight of the working class as more than just Victorian set dressing. In Dishonored 2 it's so front and center I almost couldn't imagine somebody missing it, and yet so many people did.
I like some of the changes to the chaos system. Though in future installments, I'd like to see how using your powers can fit into that and how it effects how people see you. Maybe if you use your powers too often, Overseers prowling the levels will increase, and in addition to having high chaos kills, citizens may come to fear you and maybe attack you unprovoked. It could be an interesting dilemma for the player about the use of power in addition to the enacting of violence.
Good idea. Using D2 as an example, it would be nice if you could side with the overseers to make them more helpful to you after the dust district, or the howlers which makes the poorest citizens and underworld figures respect you more, each opening up different paths, like access to the sewers under the grand palace with the howlers or a squad of overseers to assault the tower if you like.
great video! Love the direct examination of the class-struggle theme. I couldn't finish the game because the bloodflies in Crack in the Slab gave me huge panic attacks, but I'm surprised that's how the game ended up. Reminds me of Paradise Killer.
Ohhhhh man! It’s so funny, I’m never this excited for a new upload, let alone from a TH-camr who only has one video in their repertoire. Let’s just say you’re off to great start on your channel!
I'am a big fan of Arkane's works and I think you have done a terrific work in order to explain and criticize these games. In addition to that I find your videogame-essays top notch quality (both writing and editing), I hope you'll have luck with this channel and I'll be here for your next video.
So, canonically, Dishonored 2 follows a Low Chaos ending. He was overall merciful. The game even mentions a couple of the hits and their canon fates. However, _Low Chaos_ does not mean _Pacifist_. And even the first game makes it clear of Corvo's character that he _is_ willing to kill if he deems it necessary. One doesn't become a Lord Protector without spilling a little blood. That same ending also makes it clear that Emily would not dismantle the machine. Her future was always to become either a mostly benign ruler or an outright tyrant, but never to just abdicate and set up a new democracy. Conveniently, that's also how we know none of the darker endings in Dishonored 2 are canon. I'd love to see a tjird game where Emily - either as a side character or a main character - has to actually address the societal issues of her empire. Because that canonical "good" ending from the first game promised a Golden Age.
I just played Dishonored 2 for the first time this last summer, and it seems like they’ve fixed the issues! The performance problems are news to me, it was a buttery smooth experience for me. I was really surprised at how smooth it ran for how insanely beautiful and pseudo-hyperrealistic it is
Once again an amazing video. I can’t believe how high the quality of your videos are especially with the fact that it’s such a new channel and having only 2 vids
I think Dishonored 2 is amazing and surpasses the original in pretty much every way. I have minor gripes and nitpicks here and there, and the final mission is a letdown; but ultimately it's one of the best games I've ever played.
These are such interesting videos. As a developer myself it's super cool to see the amount of effort people put into analysing things you'd think would be missed by most. I really feel like I found a diamond in the rough in this channel.
I'm glad you didn't shy away from the political discussion. It's a really important part of analysis of art. I know some people "just want escapism" but art is not a place for escapism. It is a space to speak and listen.
I was able to recently play D2 and was waiting to watch this video until that came to pass. I really enjoyed this; thanks! I felt similarly about the mother in the heart. I played as Emily and although some of the journaling included emphasis on her emotions in that realm, I felt very little of it came through effectively in the story. I experienced indecision with some of the non lethal solutions. Electroshock to the extent it was applied didn’t just remove jindosh’s ability to invent/create, it crippled him to a much greater degree. I’m not sure how I feel it compares to death. Removing the female subordinate of Delilah’s ability to experience the void not only reduced her connection to ‘power’ but also completely cut her off from her ability to experience the ‘love’ of her partner(?) Delilah. Paolo and the vice overseer being indiscreetly sent to labor camps/the mines (I think?) also felt a bit strange. I’m certain that I don’t have consolidated thoughts on ‘proper’ punishments, but the scenarios felt very grey. I actually thought Delilah’s non lethal was relatively kind. I think I feel differently about the political critique. I found the story fine in regards to it being about an empress learning a bit on her journey to ‘take back’ what ‘hers’. From a low chaos play through, I mean. I agree that she was/is part of the problematic system, but I didn’t feel the game or story lacked by not addressing things in a more head on manner. I actually found her cognitive dissonance a bit endearing, haha. I really enjoyed the game. After a break I look forward to exploring death of the outsider and catching your critique of that. Thanks for presenting your thoughts to us viewers. : )
Thank you for your detailed reply! I don't have anything to add or push back on really - you already know my thoughts - just wanted to say I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts as well!
An interesting thing on the clockwork mansion is that Jindosh i think was about to invent a common battery as we figure out after he has been shocked (Saying: "If i combine the acid, against a copper plate, it... what does it do?" (Missing the Zync part still)), so no matter if you kill him or pacify him, he'll never invent the battery.
I think it's totally believable that Emily and corvo are in the long run no better than havelock or Duke abel. I think it's a criticism as a whole, by showing that even the "good nobles" are still nobles.
This is definitely an undiscovered gem this channel and video deserve so much more attention then they are getting I’m excited to see them get it. Keep up the good work man I think we’re all here for the whole ride.
for as much as i agree with what i’ve seen so far i disagree with the idea that corvo cutting down the guards somehow betrays the character we see in presented in low chaos. corvo is no stranger to bloodshed and in canon kills a good majority of his targets in the first game. it’s a stretch to assume corvo is thinking of the moral implications of killing people that are threatening the center of his worlds life on the anniversary of his lovers death. for as much as he’s a genius tactician and knows how to resolve things without outright violence i seriously doubt he would hesitate for even a single second to protect his daughter and empress. after all he is the lord protector and has most likely cut others down in protection of both rulers. besides that, i don’t think he would sneak choke everyone in that room knowing full well what delilah could do if he didn’t neutralize her immediately.
Actually, iirc in canon the only people he's confirmed to kill are Havelock (the comics explicitly show Corvo slit his throat) and Granny Rags (the novels show that Slackjaw is alive after the events of the game and he comments on Corvo saving him from Granny Rags). Campbell is confirmed to have been branded and exiled (Overseers mention it in the second game), the Pendleton Twins have no confirmation of their fate (probably were given to Slackjaw as in the books we know he and Corvo are on relatively friendly terms and he at least did Slackjaw's first mission to get assess to the Golden Cat), Lady Boyle was kidnapped (mentioned in one of the novels), and Hiram was arrested (there is a lore note in the second game where it is mentioned). Though yeah it doesn't make sense to say that Corvo would have a problem with cutting down the guards, as even disregarding what we can determine as the "canon" route based on side novels and what's mentioned in the second game, in the first game when we see the assassination from Daud's perspective Corvo shows no hesitation in trying to kill the Whalers to protect Jessamine and Emily.
Wonderful analysis; I’ve never heard a Dishonored 2 critique that was as precise and nuanced as this. You didn’t kiss ass, and rather explained issues I felt were certainly present as well, though that weren’t so easily able to be put into words. Again, great job, I’ll be here for the long haul!
For me, the opening scene had corvo being the royal guard once more and just reacted to protect Emily. With all that happened in the first game, it just makes sense that Corvo go for the kill soon as threat shows up towards Emily again. I wouldn't count it as Corvo discarding the no kill method he did in the first game.
I'll be honest, I've steered away from any Dishonored 2 essay's critiques, maybe because the ones I've heard were unfair, maybe because I was salty about someone criticizing my favorite series of all time. After watching this video I can safely say I agreed with every criticism you stated. Not only could I tell that the criticisms came from your love for the series, but they were entirely warranted and kept away from being nitpicky. Like many other comments have already stated, you are a masterclass at dissecting these beautiful pieces of art, and I think you will get your own squad after what happened in this video. Best of luck to you. I'm eager to see where the future leads you.
I'm an anarchist, so I played the first game wishing I could abolish nobility and the whole empire thing. In the second game I found myself asking how Emily and Corvo had become such oblivious idiots, in the term of 15 years, about assholes like Abele. On top of that I had to hear it from Megan, someone that I never liked because there's something off about her telling me she has no moral authority to be so harsh on anyone. In the end, I was right and she was right too. Thinking of watching the Outsider review, I thought Billie might be the one who was carryng Arkane's actual voice on politics. Daud and the Outsider are also tired of power and feel a bit alienated from humanity. But what would happen if anyone could harness the powers from the void now? I'm afriad after the Redfall embarrassing incident we won't see another game based on the Dishonored universe. And after the aquisition of Bethesda from microsoft I think there's no one left with a moral compass there to write a propper script in a more socialist direction. I think AAA games are doomed. CEO's are greedier than ever, games are outrageously broken and unfinished on release, and gamers are massively turning to shooters and fan service. For the outsider's crooked cock, I hope I'm wrong
I'm ten months late but damn. You hit the nail on the head. I'm a huge fan of Dishonored and have been for years, I've replayed it so many times and when the Dishonored 2 announcement came I was as hyped as everyone else, bought it as soon as I could, got my pacifist Emily run done... and then never replayed it. I picked it back up recently for a replay and Im halfway through but I could never quite pin down the reasons it just seemed so lackluster to me. You really nailed what makes this game seem almost like a chore to play even though its gorgeous, and its absolutely the writing, the lack of resolution for the characters and no definitive character development. You can make good choices all day long but you'll never enact REAL change in the game's world and that is never actually critiqued by the narrative. It just had so much potential and playing it again just brings back that feeling of what we COULD have had. Stellar video and I'll probably be watching whatever else you've already uploaded and will upload next.
I kind of wish there was an ending where Emily realized she wouldn't make a good leader so she decides to hold the first election in the world of Dishonored where no matter the class any one could throw thier hat into the ring and all of the isles would be able to choose thier own fate.
Dishonored is maybe my favourite game series ever, and I this is such a good take on it. I love the passion you clearly have for it, and this is such a thoughtful analysis of the whole affair. Now excuse me whilst I go through all your other videos (especially that Control one, that made me look up in surprise, very excited to see someone addressing that and the new weird genre).
I love these videos, I completely agree with your opinion, I felt empty after playing dishonored 2. I always thought that a lot more commentary on Emily's reing could have been made and it would have improved the game a lot. Keep up the incredible work!
Regarding your point about Corvo killing the guards at the beginning of the game, I don't see that as being uncharacteristic for his low-chaos personality. Yes, low-chaos Corvo would do everything in his power to avoid killing needlessly. But let's not forget that at the prologue of Dishonored, Corvo killed the Whalers that were attacking Jessamine, even if you do a low-chaos/clean hands run. This situation is no different - another Empress is in danger of being assassinated and she's Corvo's own daughter no less. Also, everything happened suddenly and it was no time for him to be subtle or merciful with his opponents. And what's more, he would refuse to repeat the same mistake again - to let another Empress die on his watch. Especially, on the anniversary of his greatest failure. So my closing argument for low-chaos Corvo is this - he would avoid killing if he is in control of the situation, but when Jessamine and Emily were in danger, he was not in control of those situations and was forced to eliminate foes quickly and ruthlessly, because it wasn't just his life on the line, but theirs too.
I've thoroughly enjoyed these first two videos! I'm looking forward to watching the next two after I play those games. I appreciate your commentary on the game's uncritical nature in regards to class and imperialism. It rubbed me wrong when I played it and you voiced my thoughts really succinctly. In your last bit you mentioned a possible video about Control and the new weird genre and personally I would absolutely love to see that!
Love the review, Keep up the good work. Don't feel uncomfortable about talking about the game's story and politics, I'm quite right-wing, and while I may disagree on some details, I entirely agree with your conclusions in regards to the game undermining it's theme. Love hearing a well thought out review that's not inclined to knee-jerk reactions to minor details, and so far neither of your videos have disappointed. Again, Keep up the good work!
Had no idea this video was so recent, I assumed it was as old as the second game but I'm surprised to see it's only been about 10h since it was posted.
Bonecharm crafting plus the new game plus mechanics were insanely OP. After the fight with Delilah, before choosing to free the statue you can break down ALL of your Bonecharms into whalebone, craft as many runes as possible, buy as many powers as you can to use as many runes as possible, then end the game. The amount of runes you got in New Game Plus is tied to how many you spent in the playthrough you loaded from. Plus you keep all the bonecharm abilities you sacrificed, meaning if you got as much as possible in your first run, in the second you can pick up all the bonecharm crafting upgrades immediately upon getting your powers. Craft a bonecharm with the Void Favor trait 4 times (and if you get lucky, pick it up on a charm during your run) for a huge chance of any power you use being free starting a the very first time you're able to use them. After 2 or 3 more playthroughs you will start each run with enough runes to buy every power and upgrade from the start.
Oh, I just always go the silent way with Jindosh. It's much more fun that way! The biggest difficulty there is to time and aim the jump through the walls correctly. But once you are inside the walls it's fun to sneak around and choking guards while not activating the Clockworks. Then I get to Jindosh's office, aim a Sleep Dart from a distance and escape before the Clockworks patrolling his office can find me. Then I come back and destroy both Clockworks with stun mines.
In your video on the first Dishonored you said that it was clear Corvo needed to protect Jesamine so the game doesn't count the assassins as Corvo's kills and doing so makes sense. This is exactly what happens in the intro sequence so I don't understand why you didn't like it here.
I think this does come down to the writing of the main protags not being explicit enough but I do think we're to understand that emily does learn about her own complicity and laziness and goes forth to make a change. Shes directly called out for this by sokolov and billie just off the top of my head.
I'm a huge fan of long-form critiques like Joseph Anderson, Reykavik and witelights' videos. Almost never comment or like videos, but I've never seen such a polished video from a completely new creator. Can't believe this is only your 2nd video.
Kinda funny talking about Corvo's brutality, while ingame cutscene has Corvo saying stuff about Empress' death and how he misses her, lays rose to her portrait.
Wow! You don’t make many videos but your quality of video is very high! Great mic great editing. I particularly loved the parts where you showcase the music. I love listening to wrenhaven river when I go for walks. Keep it up
Watching your two dishonored videos, I’m definitely happy that you’ll be coming for Death of the Outsider first (because it works, and also because I haven’t finished Prey yet.) These are some extremely good critiques, and especially for your first two videos. I definitely approve of this, and I agree with how 2 definitely missed some parts, and I feel you definitely touched on some of the main parts. Commenting on the sort of let-down of the low-chaos story’s resolution, this is sort of why, opposite to the Dishonored 1 DLCs, I found high chaos more compelling. Emily instead feeling stifled by her position, feeling screwed over by people she had sacrificed for, and resolving to stop at nothing to take vengeance because she had been given a great excuse? Very compelling. Especially since ya know Emily probably shouldn’t be empress. Ichabod Boyle is sorta right, he asks “should parliament rule?” And Emily has the power to radically reform parliament to better serve the people and not make it solely nobles, and then increase it’s powers.
As a big fan of both games your video essays actually beautifully capture the exact reasoning when I still prefer dishonored over dishonored 2 when there are so many more objective improvements in the sequel. I still have more hours in the first game than the second and I never could vocalise to myself why. This wonderfully executed video really is a treat with such a great analytical approach to the whole series. Amazing work and thoroughly enjoyed.
I love returning to this series every now and then, and this watch through has made me decide to replay either Dishonored 2 or Death of the Outsider with my hud turned off on max difficulty!
My biggest gripe of the whole game is how the water physics clip into and nearly sink the little boat whenever you go to or from the missions and similarly that people can drown in 2 inches of water cause of how the water is programmed. First mission to the city and the waves almost go up to Meagan’s waist even tho we’re in a boat.
i'm a VERY thorough stealth-oriented player and i remember that my first playthrough of duke abel's palace took me something like 8-9hrs just because i was enjoying exploring it so much (i AM with you on the matter of the lack of emotional weight in a lot of the characters. i love this game but i feel like the voice direction really lets the game and character potential down - i felt like corvo had more personality in dh1 despite his lack of voice just through his dialogue options and the way others responded to him. it was a mixture of subtle in-game cues and leaving enough room for the player imagination to fill in the gaps. the voice acting of dh2 meanwhile takes away that room for imagination without offering a lot of emotional depth in exchange)
After having recently been playing through Dishonored 2, I completely agree with your take about how the studio didn’t fulfill on their own narrative and themes. I’m not even super left leaning, but I do think I would have respected Arkane’s story more if in the good ending, Emily had at least made reference to starting some major reform more than “I gotta pay more attention in court.”
As far as the burden of sequels goes, you nailed it with your sequel. Finishing off the Dishonored series certainly makes more sense, to me at least, but I greatly look forward to both videos either way.
What's kind of sad is that the "Howlers vs the Overseers" is that there's always hints throughout that Paolo wants to help the people and put the power in their hands, but when you kill/turn over Byrns it falls into chaos without the order the Overseers bring, so if you don't take a side and put the Duke's double into power, that becomes one if the best outcomes because it's implied the Howlers and Overseers compromise on issues to help the people (at least that's how I thought it was) but the game just kinda glosses over it and doesn't do much with something like that beyond that
Dishonored 2 is just big enough when you get done with an area you kinda want to speed up the actual mission so I always moved a little quicker through all of the main mission areas.
Your oops all anti-capitalism part of the video pretty much encapsulated my thoughts and feelings upon my recent replay of both Dishonored 1 and 2. Both are deeply anti-police and talk about class conflict, but neither really tackles this in the story. I think this can partly be explained by both titles being manufactured for a wider audience, meaning in order to generate broad appeal, strong political messages are discouraged. I do think the games would have been significantly more impactful as art if they acted more on that note. Emily noticing that democritazing a country could eventually prevent despots like Abele would have been satisfying to me. But, alas, being a product of a neoliberal society, individual changes (we need a "good" king) are preferred over systemic ones. Short side note: I remember in one level in DH2, two NPCs were talking about the workers of a company uniting in order to enforce higher salaries, just teatering along the line of actually saying "seizing the means of production" - a lot of the game's message was undermined for the sake of marketability.
I personally think the story's big flaw was giving short shrift certain Machiavellian realities of politics. Emily tried to be a good sovereign. A lot of the lore you find in the first Dunwall level confirms that much. She cracked down on the criminal enterprises that thrived during the plague, and restored the flooded district to a habitable state. She even created a social program to support military veterans. But in a system like Dunwall's, you run into the same problems you do with modern real-world politics: in order to get anything really meaningful done, you have to secure the at least nominal cooperation of your political opposition, and absolute monarch or not, that has a tendency to hamstring your agenda. That doesn't change or excuse the fact that Emily and Corvo benefit from an inherently exploitative system, or that they made the all too common mistake of conflating the needs and interests of the capital with those of the empire and by extension, the citizenry as a whole. It does give Emily as a character more depth and empathy than I think your conclusion gives her credit for. A lot of the villains of this piece seem to be complicit for shallow reasons that don't support the game's thematic message, as compared to the original where the parallels between the conspirators and the loyalists are easier to draw. For your consideration: Duke Abelle could have couched his greed as a desire for genuine independence from the empire, Jindosh could have been a futurist preparing for an eventuality that no one else can see. instead of a generic mad scientist, and Ashworth could have been a genuine rival to Delilah masquerading as a devotee. Basically, let them be genuine consequences of complacency rather than just villainous caricatures of class warfare stereotypes. What would have really interested me would be a return to the hook from the original's last mission, seeing the more merciful options build a base of popular support for a restorationist movement, because the characters do learn something genuinely meaningful from their experiences, and have that reflected in the design of the game's ultimate confrontation. Let me be clear that i still enjoy the story as it stands, but if we really expect it to carry such weighty political messages on the back of little more than mustache-twirling villainy, then we'd need a more compelling connection and contrast between our heroes and villains. Excellent essay, keep up the great content.
To make a slight defense for Emily and Corvo appearing to not do much with their power, they don't have absolute power. There's at least a parliament, which the Pendletons were in from the first game, and if it's anything like the English one it would be made up of lords who wouldn't want to lose their money or standing. So change there would be hard, and Emily would have to pick her battles. As for Luca being in power, keep in mind Emily is watching over an entire empire, it's hard getting into the nitty-gritty of every corner of every city to know what's wrong, and sometimes when you already have 20 urgent problems and hundreds of less urgent, it's easier to ignore something like a leader being more corrupt than usual then add more to your pile. All that being said, you're definitely right in there should have been more depth and growth, and just because turning a blind eye can be easier it doesn't mean you're guilt free.
49:40 the protagonist gets not-so-subtly called out by both Sokolov and Meagan for their part in the rise of the Duke and his wrongdoings in the intros to missions 6 and 8 though, not to mention all the clues we find here and there like Meagan snidely remarking that the protag should know they're low on resources because their own policies on Whale Oil have been bleeding people dry for energy. I get that it isn't the most prevalent theme but it's still very noticeable
Corvo getting zapped in the beginning is wild. Corvo should have been not playable, silent, and more cleverly dishonored. Then we play as Emily and try to save the guy we love from the first game
8:30 my thoughts on Corvo killing the guards- either the high chaos in Dishonored 1 is canon (not likely, considering Emily’s disposition), or he is desperate not to repeat the events of the prior game, and didn’t have the luxury of examining the situation critically. Emily being the canon protagonist also fits, Delilah would have considered Corvo the greater threat. Great video!
On one hand, I can understand your gripe about the opening scene with Corvo, but honestly, looking at that situation, there wasn’t anything else he could really do. None of his powers are “instantly knock a group of people unconscious.” He either kills those three guards aiming their weapons at Emily, and likewise, kills Delilah so he can stop this and focus on beating the robots, or he gambles Emily’s life to preserve theirs. Really, his only non-lethal option would be to run, but with Delilah there, that’s easier said than done, especially while carrying Emily. That said, they could have done it differently. Like have this reveal happen in a setting that lets fleeing be an option, then have you choose your character, and the other gets taken as the chosen one flees somehow (likely by being knocked over the edge or something, so as to make it clear saving the other is not an option).
![กี่หมื่นฟ้า | Your Sky Series EP.1 [1/4]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vLGjxFL6U_I/mqdefault.jpg)
So here’s my thoughts on the opening scene. Corvo has been through hell and back low or high chaos to get Emily back and put back in power. It’s the anniversary of jessamines (idk if I spelt that right lol) death so he’s reliving that day he was unable to protect her. Then his daughter is threatened in an another coup. So corvo thinks “I’m not making the same mistakes” and just cuts the threat to Emily down immediately. I don’t think arkane was trying to invalidate or alienate the low chaos players but rather show that corvo fears losing Emily as he did jessamine. I loved dishonoured 2 and this analysis I’m loving just as much. Keep up the great work
My favorite part of that scene really shows what Bend Time looks like to a regular person, 3 men dead in a split second.
Besides, it's his job to protect Emily from those would want to stab her. What was he supposed to do, choke-hold everyone or just let them stab her?
Also its cannon corvo does kill in dishonored 1 and is also cannon that corvo killed the assassin's attacking the empress
Also, let's not forget he praised Corvo for killing in the opening of Dishonored where as here he criticises Corvo.
It's canon that Corvo kills and killed a lot of People. He's the Royal Protector, not Ghandi
i remember there was this one really interesting line from Emily in the game, where she wonders out loud what she'll do if, upon her return, she finds out Delilah has been a better empress than she ever was... of course, it turns out Delilah *isn't* better, and so Emily can take back the throne from her with a clean conscience (at least low chaos Emily can)... but that line really stuck with me, because it made me think about how interesting it would've been if that had actually been the case, or something like it. what would Emily have done, if she had been cast from the throne *not* by a singular cackling villain, but by the people, who'd grown tired of her and tired of the system that put her in power? i think that would've made for a really fascinating and complex story, and possibly a very powerful character arc for Emily as she goes from resenting the people who cast her from the throne to understanding that perhaps this thing she's been so desperately trying to get back never should've been hers in the first place. personally i think that would've been more interesting than the fairly simple "take back what's yours" storyline we got... though granted, that *is* the literal tagline of the game. thanks for the thought-provoking video, i'm looking forward to hearing your take on Death of the Outsider!
That would've been interesting but sadly the majority of the gaming industry (especially the big boys..) wouldn't like such a story since most people don't like stories where you play the villain.
Still, if there were to be a story like that I think it'd work best if Emily wasn't actually a bad guy in the story but more like what would've happened in the Loyalists had gotten their way, a figurehead and scapegoat where the ones in actual control are her advisors and generals.
It could probably go down two general paths probably with two factions you could work for and join, royalists and abolitionists, possibly with a middle-ground where you can work for both.
One thing that should be avoided though would be to paint either side as inherently the good or bad side and have that be more decided by the actions of the player and if they weed out the corruption and greed that is in either or both factions.
I hear Fable 3 did a decent job with that, with you having to chose between taking support from shady characters who give more resources and the people who cannot give as much to help you win back your throne.
But that’s completely undercut by Delilah herself. The first thing Delilah does when she arrives is to start executing members of the watch that are loyal to the crown. She didn’t even give them a chance to switch sides. She just got there and started murdering people. I don’t care if she might happen to be better at the economic and logistic policies of empire building when she murdered 20 people in front of my eyes. I agree that hereditary monarchy is far from ideal governmental form but Delilah is a bloodstained tyrant and that’s way worse.
One of the great limitations put on video game storytelling is the expectation that your goal is to "win". Novels and films are free to explore the tragic and melancholy side of human experience, plans going awry, good intentions coming to nothing; but if you play to the end of a AAA game, you expect to get a reward, save the princess, save the world, be a hero.
Very few games have managed to break that mould, Metro 2033, for example. Many players might reach the end of an Emily low chaos playthrough, find her waxing introspective about her own fitness and desire to rule, and finally abdicating, and feel cheated.
@@StephenYuanCause games are different, we are not reading. We are putting ourselves in the game, we are dedicating time, we are using our brain to solve problems, trudging through hours of trial and error, we are not passive observers. We are putting effort in the game, and when games end up not "winning" even if the story is great, it does not feel satisfying, as we did not just watch a story unfold, unlike a book.
@@brandonmurguia7566 I think you might have misunderstood the point of my original comment. The point was not "I think Delilah was morally right all along" or "The game would've been better if they'd just slapped a DELILAH GOOD twist at the very end" - the point was to reimagine a different, more complex version of the story where Delilah *isn't* simply a "bloodstained tyrant", as you put it. I specifically adressed this in my original comment when I said; "What would Emily have done, if she had been cast from the throne *not by a singular cackling villain,* but by the people, who'd grown tired of her and the system that put her in power?"
I dont think there is a single other youtuber who has made a bigger impression on me with the first video I've seen let alone there only video.
well, well ,well worth the wait.
I agree utterly. Well thought and well put
Eric Crosby is, in my mind, like more than meets the lens. They have few videos but all of them are perfectly done.
You should watch Grims take on dishonored. How Corvo would carry out the missions
🤝
This will be great. I've watched the first one thrice now and its safe to say I'm with you for the long haul.
Didn't watch it 3 times myself but i like this guys content
Weird, I could have sworn Low Chaos Emily gradually remarks more and more during the urban levels on how out of touch she has been with the common folk, and vows to be better once back in Dunwall. Maybe not during the first few levels, but around the time of the Conservatory or before Abele's mansion. I'll have to return and check for myself.
Anyway, even though I may not agree with Arkane's dropping the ball on the class warfare narrative (I thought it was the story of the game, clearly front and center), I thought your video was very interesting and well-made, and I'm eager to watch all the others.
She definitely does remark on the classism around her, but to me that wasn't enough. She doesn't take adequate action to address those issues by the end of the game. As I say, she should know better by the end that being a 'good ruler' just isn't going to cut it.
I can see why that's probably a step too far for folks who aren't in my particular political camp though.
Thank you for your kind words as well! :)
@@EricCrosby I can see why that wasn't enough for you (and I would say we're in the same camp), I think I I saw the ending as less definitive maybe than you did (my interpretation may not be supported by the actual content). I was hopeful there was meaningful change ahead (and not just an enlightened absolutist) thanks to this character arc.
@@EricCrosby it's not about "your political camp" it's about it being hamfisted with the subtlety of a High chaps run.
@@upselo6331 At the very least my feel of it was that Emily would work to ensure that abuse of the lower classes would be punished and prevented as much as could from her position.
Of course it'd still exist, perfection is an impossibility but at the least she'd be a benevolent monarch.
Fun fact, though today the term dictator is associated with evil and corrupt leadership back in the Roman days it was not.
Back then to be dictator meant to be 'the one who dictates' aka rules the empire as sole leader and though they had their share of shitty emperors they had quite some good ones as well.
I see Emily similarly, she wants to do good but has grown complacent, not knowing the suffering of her people and because she doesn't know she doesn't act.
Plus, besides the speaker systems there doesn't seem to be any good ways of long distance communication so unlike in our time news would take a lot of time to spread and even if it would reach her it'd likely pass through multiple points which could edit it before passing it along, if they even do.
@@EricCrosby I see the ending as almost a bigger message, the upper and ruling class sees the problems with the lower class, and they understand people exploit them. By arkane not showing growth or any change it’s almost a message about how real it is that the ruling class simply doesn’t care. Of course it might not be fully intentional but I think it shows the reality of it rather then a feel good end of “we will do better now” if that’s not how it really ever happens
I will definitely agree with the sentiment that Dishonored 2 feels like an unfinished gem of a game. The Crown Killer was set up in the prologue and in mission one that they were this threat to Emily's rulel and they seemed like they'll play a bigger part of dishonored 2's story (at least to me and a friend of mine) and by the end of mission 2, the crown killer is just done and dealt with with no big huzzah for the most part. With this game having the story done over two characters kinda makes me feel like there was some compromises done to its quality, despite this one feeling like it was moreso to be Emily's game.
Great video, you deserve more views and got my sub! That said, 2 points related to the beginning.
i) Corvo is voiced by Stephen Russell who also voiced Garrett, the protagonist of the Thief games. The casting was a conscious decision by Arkane, paying homage to the original inspiration for both Covo and Dishonoured.
ii) You found it a slap in the face to see Corvo kill people in the into. I rather think it would have been ridiculous if he hadn't, since his daughter's life was in close and immediate danger. You didn't expect him to be sleep darting or choking out every usurper in the throne room, did you? Or ask them politely to stop? What about the clockwork soldiers butchering the assembly? He should just stand there and do nothing? No. Corvo killing during the intro is absolutely in character and justified, both as Emily's father and Lord Protector of the Empress, and I say that as someone who prefers non lethal.
I've said this on other comments so I'll keep it brief: my point about Corvo killing in the intro isn't that it is out of character, but that the choice to kill should have been in the player's hands. *My* version of Corvo is a strict pacifist even if others may not be. Even if you're a full lethal high chaos player, it's just more impactful to have the first kill be a conscious choice on the player's part.
@@EricCrosby Pacifism has its limits, especially for a bodyguard and Corvo is a bodyguard. There's one thing to avoid killing if at all possible (Dishonored1), but if a bodyguard does not immediately take care of the guy trying to stab the one he's trying to protect, he would b a bad bodyguard to sat the least.
You can also consider that those killings would be legal in real life in a lot of jurisdictions, even if Corvo and Emily were regular people. Any other killing, on the other hand, would most likely be illegal.
Let's also not forget that the first game also opens like this, you protect the Empress for a bit by killing the whalers, or at least trying to, until one of them lifts you up. The main weapon is a pistol, a lethal weapon, I believe the intro drew a paralel from the first game. Maybe if the choice of playing as either Emily or Corvo would have been a few minutes earlier and prompted you as Emily, to stand and watch and as Corvo to protect, once again, the Empress, all players would have been satisfied. (It would've also been interesting to see the coup from both of their perspectives tbh)
@@bibss9337 thing is, the game allowed you to be nonlethal, it was a choice if you wanted to kill the whalers, you couldve just simply blocked with your sword instead
Great video. I've been consuming every Dishonored essay I can find and just watched your first and second vids back to back. Your Dishonored 1 video is one of the best ones I've seen on the topic, it probably has the best layout/organization of ideas in any Dishonored essay. You hit all the common talking points while still maintaining a good flow to the video which I know is not an easy feat. And the opening quote of "Dishonored is the greatest game I have ever played. It is not my favorite game, nor is it perfect, but it is the greatest" is just fantastic. What a great way to put it. When I heard that I knew I was in for a treat.
I imagine this video was much harder to assemble than the first. Dishonored 2 is such a tough game to examine, it's so good but also it's like, so bad, you know?
Now for some thoughts on this video. Please understand that this is just meant as a constructive critique based on my personal tastes. Not trying to be rude, I just felt compelled to spell out my thoughts after watching the video:
-The development history segment feels unnecessary, it may because I have already seen the NoClip documentary but I just kinda zoned out until you started talking about the game proper. Granted, this section of the video only took up like 2 minutes max, so to somebody who didn't already know the behind the scenes info it was probably more engaging. Imo, the only part of this section that truly needed to be included was the part about the middling reception the game received, so as to set the scene for your more critical tone in this video compared to the first.
-The stylish chapter names are a nice touch, that kind of extra care really adds to the overall presentation.
-Good use of gameplay footage, the video always matches what you are talking about in the voiceover. This is a lot of extra work compared to just letting longer gameplay clips run in the background, but it is greatly appreciated by people like me who watch the video instead of just listening to it like a podcast. Also, crossfades between every clip is a good touch, that must have been very annoying but it is pleasant to watch.
-This doesn't really matter for a video like this where the voiceover contains all the content, and it depends on your PC specs more than anything, but using jittery/low fps footage is really annoying lol. But I know this just a Dishonored 2 issue. The game still doesn't run smoothly on my rig either, and tbh the janky footage in this video just further drives home the point about the games lack of optimization, so it may actually work in this video's favor. Just something to consider for future videos where the game you're playing actually runs properly. I would prioritize smooth framerate over graphical settings when recording for TH-cam.
-I don't think you need to make such a big deal about prefacing your political commentary with a disclaimer. Everyone has their own opinion, and as long as you slip in a quick "but this is just my reading of the game, if you have a different take let me know in the comments" somewhere I think most people understand, even if they disagree with what you're saying. If anybody actually gets offended over a Dishonored video essay, you just gotta accept that the occasional asshole in the comments will always exist, it's best just to shadowban them and move on
-The only think I strongly disagree with was your opinion on A Crack in the Slab. It is a neat gimmick to be sure, but as somebody who played D1 like 40 times, my initial reaction to that level, even on my first playthrough when it was fresh and exciting, was "oh god I am gonna hate having to do this every time I play the game". I realize "makes playthrough number 17 kinda boring for 4 minutes" doesn't really seem like a valid complaint to the average person who does at most 2 playthroughs, but despite the fact that it's objectively an amazing level, it's probably my least favorite segment out of all the Dishonored games, to the point where I kill Stilton every time now just out of spite.
For being your first couple of uploads, these videos are very well done. I never would have guessed you were a new channel based on the video's quality; they feel like something somebody who's been doing this for 2 or 3 years would put out. You earned a sub from me, and I'm looking forward to what you create in the future.
Thank you so much for the feedback! I'm always looking to improve my videos so I'll definitely take these things into account.
With regards to the low fps gameplay footage - it bothers me a lot too. I spent a lot of time trying to recapture footage at 60fps but I just couldn't get every moment in the game. It's a shame, but it is representative of how the game was running for me. My PC is built for rendering and 3D so it's not an issue of my specs. The game really was just that inconsistent for me.
Yeah, Crack in the Slab (and the Delilah speech in the Void) completely breaks the flow of replays for me. That mission should have powers active in New Game+.
My 2 favourite dishonored individuals coming together.... a real dream. I guess I'm having whisky and cigars tonight
@@livik9582 Indeed. I believe so.
If the justification for a nonlethal corvo in d1 is "these soldiers are still loyal to the crown he's seeking to avenge" then him cutting down guards actively trying to stage a coup against his daughter and queen isnt immersion breaking in any capacity
Huh, I think you just helped me understand why--despite loving the game to death--Dishonored 2's ending always left me feeling a bit hollow. The failure to properly address the class issue leaves a lot to be desired. I understand Arkane's hesitation in trying to achieve broader appeal, but as you said, the immersive sim isn't really a broad appeal genre which I think should leave it open for more challenging stories.
Pretty sure the class conflict is not there to be addressed. This is a fantasy Victorian Age, and class conflict was part of it’s backdrop, just like in our Victorian Age.
Since this is a video about gaming, I’ll refrain from commenting on the socialist view at the end, except to remind that looking at history from a Marxist perspective did not reflect the actual evolutions of Western society. In Europe, if not necessarily in the USA, class conflict abated with the rise of social democracy. It was a slow transformation that spanned more than a century, and in my opinion, the timeframe of the game is too small for such a transformation to be noticeable.
@@feastguy101 Agree with this -- I also think that the lore texts and environmental storytelling of Death of the Outsider, combined with playing as a disenfranchised person, makes it much clearer that Emily, though canonically a well-meaning monarch, cannot truly understand the suffering of the underclass. In one conversation with Megan/Billie, she talks about how she would go out at night on the rooftops to "see what life was like outside the castle walls," but she was still literally placing herself above the common folk.
In one conversation with Billie, she even acknowledges her privilege by saying, "I used to wander Dunwall with my face hidden. But when I got tired of it, I could always go back to the Tower." And yet, in the end, she doesn't cede that power. She means well, and she And you can see the results of that return to the status quo through Billie's eyes in Death of the Outsider.
I feel like, for a thoughtful player, the leftist (dare I say anarchist?) subtext is...well, barely even subtext. It's often just, you know, text. "An injury to one of us is an injury to all of us" is literally a modern-day talking point on class solidarity, and I loved seeing it in-game. It is disappointing that nothing ever comes of it, but...well, if Karnaca became a Marxist utopia, would there really be a lesson there, either?
It feels to me that the lesson is that as long as a group of elites maintains power over the majority, there will never be justice or equality. But I'm an anarcho-syndicalist, so maybe I'm projecting.
Edit: Also, am I the only one that noticed that Delilah's last name is "Copperspoon," which places her impoverished upbringing in direct contrast with Jessamine (and Emily's) privileged upbringing, as they were each "born with a silver spoon in her mouth?" I feel like these details are included to make the player empathize with her juuuust enough to question whether Emily is really the benevolent ruler we all like to think she will be.
@@JadeStone00 pretty much, but I took a different lesson altogether from it: no matter what happens, the majority will be ruled by an elite, and the quality and accountability of that elite largely determines how good to be a part of a society is going to be.
But then again, I’m a liberal (Europe), so my takes are my own.
Do love this world though. The atmosphere is something else. One of my favorites.
I also find it a little weird, that Emily now suddenly is a fighting protagonist. Unlike Corvo who was a bodyguard and had much experience in fighting, combat, stealth, finding targets and so on and so on Emily doesn't. It feels kinda hollow to suddenly give her these powers just so she can be the hero of the story.
@@jana731We find out in the game that she trained with Corvo for about 15 years, and she gets her void powers in exactly the same way as Corvo. I don’t understand the issue.
This vid made me realize in what I missed during Dishonored 2: the emotional connection between the main character and the rest of the cast. They are always in a world of their own and dont engage with the rest of the cast unless absolutely nessecary. The Hounds Pit of Dishonored started to feel like home. You could unlock things, explore the area and overhear dialog. I felt like Corvo belonged there, where Dishonored 2 felt rushed.
I wish we had the options to talk to the NPC's we helped/saved and that Corvo/Emily was building a loyalist group of their own, their own council on how to right the wrongs that were commited. During the first mission of Emily's play through, you can find an audiogram in her bathroom which states
"You're the ruler of four nations, and I won't pretend to understand the pressure you're under. Only you, and your mother before you, could know what that's like,"
This line perfectly telegraphs the differences in class and the inherrent rift between Emily and her people. The truth of the matter is, is that ruling is hard. I have been a policy worker at a govermnental institute and getting these institutes to adapt and change is a long term commitment. I am fine with Emily being privileged and not understanding the plight of the people. What I missed was the meaningful connections, from all walks of life, which they could have built to effective advice her on how to rule her empire and implement meaningful and longterm change.
The characters are less meaningful now, too
At the beginning your character says you have to regroup, but the characters you collect aren't as meaningful as in the first game
I agree with you, Emily is much better suited for a low chaos, ghost playthrough than Corvo. I used Corvo for a high chaos and no powers run. Happy to say I have a platinum for this game. Not hard to do, but tedious as hell.
Funilly enough actually, it is apparently cannon and mentioned in either the books or the comics that Emily does exactly what you wanted, and dissolved the monarchy to stop the possibility of a future coup
As much as I have a love for Dishonored 2, I do have some pretty broad issues with Jindosh's non lethal takedown. Though the more I've thought about it I think I nailed it down to framing.
If Jidosh had the same take down but was in Dishonored 1 I might not care as much, I would still be uncomfortable with it for sure but it would fit more into the cruel but fitting karmatic punishments the game gives out. Dishonored 1 really is not a game that considers mercy for your assassination targets.
My issue with Jidosh springs more from how Dishonored 2 took the step from cruel punishments, to having the non lethal paths be over all good deeds. Saving Hypatia from her own madness, making sure the Dust District is cared for and protected. They are much more often framed as the better choice, which is what bothers me.
Jindosh was lobotomized. Which I consider a horrific act. Much as people were insulted at Lady Boyle's non lethal because it was a cruel and forceful violation of her bodily autonomy, Jindosh's fate does the exact same thing. We rob him of himself, his own mind taken away from him. The very concept of having your entire identity stripped away is so viscerally horrifying having it frame as the "better option" it makes me a little sick. He was a terrible man but lobotomizing him as the better option feels wrong. Death in all honesty is a mercy.
If you stick around him after lobotomizing him, he asks the character to kill him, so even though his IQ was lowered to that of a six year old, he realizes the torture he will endure the rest of his life.
I pretty sure both are supposed to be terrible people.
The woman wanted sex and was with a man of her own who killed the empress and spread the plage while the other was a scientist who sided with a witch to take over the empire.
I do think it's a bit weird, but I guess she gets the sex she wanted as for the man, I don't think he's mind would... Well, re adjust for the good side. But in all honesty, it's not my game lol, so if they come out with better Solutions for those characters then, sure why not.
I don't feel bad at all actually
@@Fallen-Saint "The woman wanted sex..." Who there. Nothing else you said in that sentence makes that beginning OK. Even if you were trying to describe irony, that won't fly.
@@radfarlander so, you think cheating is ok? And with multiple people as well?
Actually, there was a novelization of Dishonored 2 that takes place after the main game in which there was a movement against Emily and the nobility, but the eventual conflict ended the movement when the leader of the movement saw how different Emily was and that she is in proper power to make actual changes for the lower class. There’s also the fact that Emily dissolved the Abbey after the Death of the Outsider. As helpful as they were in trying to stop the corruption of the void, they were fanatical enough that the lower class were always harmed by them, as well as them using sinister means in trying to cleanse the world from the void.
Which book covers this? I've always been meaning to read them and haven't found the time
@@EricCrosby “Dishonored: The Peeress and the Price”
It’s a two-issue comic series.
For the Abbey situation, the only novel I know that discuss this was in “Dishonored: The Veiled Terror” which is the final installment of a trilogy, although I’m not sure if you need to read the previous two novels first. The first one was about Emily and Corvo taking place in between Dishonored 1 and 2, the second one was about Daud and what he did before his captured, and the third one was about Billie in the aftermath of the Death of the Outsider.
Depending on your choices in the game, you do actually change the outcome of the story. My favourite was a low chaos ending where I sided with the Howlers and non-lethally took down Abele. That way, you have a morally good character at the helm, supported by a character that knows the lowest and worst parts of the city.
i loved this video.
dishonored 2 is my favourite video game ever. it’s hard to put into words how much it means to me - it was the game that got me into games, before i discovered it i was the type who just played shooters with my friends and that was it. dishonored 2 made me realise that video games can be an art, and they can be damn good art. this game also got me through a really rough time in my life when i didn’t really have much to live for and i hated where i was and everything around me. when i started up a playthrough of dishonored 2 i was transported into a different world and after some time it started to feel like a second home to me; i know karnaca as if it was the city i grew up in. all of the beauty and desolation in the setting became a place for me to escape to and to this day little things bring me as much comfort as the world arkane built in this game. i love the first dishonored as well, but i started with dishonored 2 and it has always been extra special to me.
but despite everything i just said, i absolutely agree with all of your criticism. hearing these critiques from someone who also clearly loves this game makes them mean so much more. dishonored 2 could have been better, which is a crazy thing to say considering how much it got right. your political evaluation was spot on too; the dishonored world oozes class conflict, everything from the characters to the architecture to even the gameplay itself. this game was built alongside a horrifically unequal and unjust society, and the game shows it perfectly. just a glance at some of the buildings shows the class divide in the empire is sharp and bloodstained. i’ve always felt that dishonored 2’s ending could have been so much better. i maintain that dishonored 1’s story was objectively better despite my preference for the overarching world of the second game.
Honestly, my biggest gripe with the game is that it tried to add onto Corvo’s story rather than start a new one. I would’ve much preferred a stand-alone tale in Karnaca, with a new silent protagonist and a new set of powers. Hell, maybe you could’ve played as someone tied to Delilah, and that could’ve been the gateway to a deeper examination of her character.
I don’t know if others have told you this but Harvey Smith confirmed that the Heart contained Jessamines soul in the first game as well, it makes sense why Corvo wouldn’t be as shocked considering he had the Heart in the first game but the thing about Emily not being shocked is a genuine criticism.
thank you so much. ive seen a lot of dishonored video essays, and none of them went into detail of its extremely obvious political commentary. playing these games as a leftist felt so goddamn real, and i just wanted someone to put it into words.
I believe Noah Caldwell-Gervais also tackled this game's inability to go far enough. Check him out, he never shies away from politics either.
It seems pretty obvious to me that Dishonored 1 and 2 both prominently feature the plight of the working class as more than just Victorian set dressing. In Dishonored 2 it's so front and center I almost couldn't imagine somebody missing it, and yet so many people did.
I like some of the changes to the chaos system. Though in future installments, I'd like to see how using your powers can fit into that and how it effects how people see you. Maybe if you use your powers too often, Overseers prowling the levels will increase, and in addition to having high chaos kills, citizens may come to fear you and maybe attack you unprovoked. It could be an interesting dilemma for the player about the use of power in addition to the enacting of violence.
Good idea. Using D2 as an example, it would be nice if you could side with the overseers to make them more helpful to you after the dust district, or the howlers which makes the poorest citizens and underworld figures respect you more, each opening up different paths, like access to the sewers under the grand palace with the howlers or a squad of overseers to assault the tower if you like.
great video! Love the direct examination of the class-struggle theme. I couldn't finish the game because the bloodflies in Crack in the Slab gave me huge panic attacks, but I'm surprised that's how the game ended up. Reminds me of Paradise Killer.
Ohhhhh man! It’s so funny, I’m never this excited for a new upload, let alone from a TH-camr who only has one video in their repertoire. Let’s just say you’re off to great start on your channel!
The story of how Corvo and Emily are at fault feels especially prevalent if you have Corvo become duke of Serkonos
Wait, Corvo can become the Duke? Does that happen if you Kill Luca and save Corvo? I don't think I've seen that scene, or seen it mentioned before.
@@serathaevistille995 yeah i only found out about it after watching all the ending clips it inspired my last playthrough
I'am a big fan of Arkane's works and I think you have done a terrific work in order to explain and criticize these games. In addition to that I find your videogame-essays top notch quality (both writing and editing), I hope you'll have luck with this channel and I'll be here for your next video.
So, canonically, Dishonored 2 follows a Low Chaos ending. He was overall merciful. The game even mentions a couple of the hits and their canon fates.
However, _Low Chaos_ does not mean _Pacifist_. And even the first game makes it clear of Corvo's character that he _is_ willing to kill if he deems it necessary. One doesn't become a Lord Protector without spilling a little blood.
That same ending also makes it clear that Emily would not dismantle the machine. Her future was always to become either a mostly benign ruler or an outright tyrant, but never to just abdicate and set up a new democracy.
Conveniently, that's also how we know none of the darker endings in Dishonored 2 are canon.
I'd love to see a tjird game where Emily - either as a side character or a main character - has to actually address the societal issues of her empire. Because that canonical "good" ending from the first game promised a Golden Age.
Silver and Dust = Eargasm
this dude needs way more subs, his channel is so high quality. tragic he has so little, im subbed tho 😘
Love the ending of your essay. It is a truly hollow victory.
I just played Dishonored 2 for the first time this last summer, and it seems like they’ve fixed the issues! The performance problems are news to me, it was a buttery smooth experience for me. I was really surprised at how smooth it ran for how insanely beautiful and pseudo-hyperrealistic it is
"I'm a leftist, some of you will not like what i have to say." You had me at I'm a leftist, I know I'm about to LOVE what you're about to say.
Nothing feels more empty
than not being able to climb walls with shadow walk
Once again an amazing video. I can’t believe how high the quality of your videos are especially with the fact that it’s such a new channel and having only 2 vids
I always enjoy some class consciousness w/ my vidya analysis. I've really enjoyed your Arkane series here dude.
I think Dishonored 2 is amazing and surpasses the original in pretty much every way. I have minor gripes and nitpicks here and there, and the final mission is a letdown; but ultimately it's one of the best games I've ever played.
These are such interesting videos. As a developer myself it's super cool to see the amount of effort people put into analysing things you'd think would be missed by most. I really feel like I found a diamond in the rough in this channel.
"Somehow Delilah has returned" lmao
I'm glad you didn't shy away from the political discussion. It's a really important part of analysis of art. I know some people "just want escapism" but art is not a place for escapism. It is a space to speak and listen.
Lucia Pastor criticizes Corvo/Emily for letting the Duke cause chaos. And in DOTO you can get more info on what Emily did as empress after D2.
I was able to recently play D2 and was waiting to watch this video until that came to pass. I really enjoyed this; thanks!
I felt similarly about the mother in the heart. I played as Emily and although some of the journaling included emphasis on her emotions in that realm, I felt very little of it came through effectively in the story.
I experienced indecision with some of the non lethal solutions. Electroshock to the extent it was applied didn’t just remove jindosh’s ability to invent/create, it crippled him to a much greater degree. I’m not sure how I feel it compares to death. Removing the female subordinate of Delilah’s ability to experience the void not only reduced her connection to ‘power’ but also completely cut her off from her ability to experience the ‘love’ of her partner(?) Delilah. Paolo and the vice overseer being indiscreetly sent to labor camps/the mines (I think?) also felt a bit strange. I’m certain that I don’t have consolidated thoughts on ‘proper’ punishments, but the scenarios felt very grey. I actually thought Delilah’s non lethal was relatively kind.
I think I feel differently about the political critique. I found the story fine in regards to it being about an empress learning a bit on her journey to ‘take back’ what ‘hers’. From a low chaos play through, I mean. I agree that she was/is part of the problematic system, but I didn’t feel the game or story lacked by not addressing things in a more head on manner. I actually found her cognitive dissonance a bit endearing, haha.
I really enjoyed the game. After a break I look forward to exploring death of the outsider and catching your critique of that.
Thanks for presenting your thoughts to us viewers. : )
Thank you for your detailed reply!
I don't have anything to add or push back on really - you already know my thoughts - just wanted to say I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts as well!
@@EricCrosby : )
This was an awesome listen, I cant wait to see what else you come up with. I cant express how excited I am to hear what you have to say about Prey!
An interesting thing on the clockwork mansion is that Jindosh i think was about to invent a common battery as we figure out after he has been shocked (Saying: "If i combine the acid, against a copper plate, it... what does it do?" (Missing the Zync part still)), so no matter if you kill him or pacify him, he'll never invent the battery.
I enjoyed your Lore video on Dishonored. My first dap into the series was Dishonored 2 and loved it
I think it's totally believable that Emily and corvo are in the long run no better than havelock or Duke abel. I think it's a criticism as a whole, by showing that even the "good nobles" are still nobles.
This is definitely an undiscovered gem this channel and video deserve so much more attention then they are getting I’m excited to see them get it. Keep up the good work man I think we’re all here for the whole ride.
Comrade, the quality of your videos are so high! I can't wait to watch your Prey video
This channel feels like Renegade Cut for video games. I'm sold.
for as much as i agree with what i’ve seen so far i disagree with the idea that corvo cutting down the guards somehow betrays the character we see in presented in low chaos. corvo is no stranger to bloodshed and in canon kills a good majority of his targets in the first game. it’s a stretch to assume corvo is thinking of the moral implications of killing people that are threatening the center of his worlds life on the anniversary of his lovers death. for as much as he’s a genius tactician and knows how to resolve things without outright violence i seriously doubt he would hesitate for even a single second to protect his daughter and empress. after all he is the lord protector and has most likely cut others down in protection of both rulers. besides that, i don’t think he would sneak choke everyone in that room knowing full well what delilah could do if he didn’t neutralize her immediately.
Actually, iirc in canon the only people he's confirmed to kill are Havelock (the comics explicitly show Corvo slit his throat) and Granny Rags (the novels show that Slackjaw is alive after the events of the game and he comments on Corvo saving him from Granny Rags). Campbell is confirmed to have been branded and exiled (Overseers mention it in the second game), the Pendleton Twins have no confirmation of their fate (probably were given to Slackjaw as in the books we know he and Corvo are on relatively friendly terms and he at least did Slackjaw's first mission to get assess to the Golden Cat), Lady Boyle was kidnapped (mentioned in one of the novels), and Hiram was arrested (there is a lore note in the second game where it is mentioned).
Though yeah it doesn't make sense to say that Corvo would have a problem with cutting down the guards, as even disregarding what we can determine as the "canon" route based on side novels and what's mentioned in the second game, in the first game when we see the assassination from Daud's perspective Corvo shows no hesitation in trying to kill the Whalers to protect Jessamine and Emily.
Wonderful analysis; I’ve never heard a Dishonored 2 critique that was as precise and nuanced as this. You didn’t kiss ass, and rather explained issues I felt were certainly present as well, though that weren’t so easily able to be put into words. Again, great job, I’ll be here for the long haul!
For me, the opening scene had corvo being the royal guard once more and just reacted to protect Emily. With all that happened in the first game, it just makes sense that Corvo go for the kill soon as threat shows up towards Emily again. I wouldn't count it as Corvo discarding the no kill method he did in the first game.
Another example of the class difference is a quote on the wall in the Daud dlcs, "An industrial worker is a happy worker"
Mr. Crosby, how do you not have at least 60K subs by now?
Your writing is masterful, and this channel deserves to explode in size.
I'll be honest, I've steered away from any Dishonored 2 essay's critiques, maybe because the ones I've heard were unfair, maybe because I was salty about someone criticizing my favorite series of all time. After watching this video I can safely say I agreed with every criticism you stated. Not only could I tell that the criticisms came from your love for the series, but they were entirely warranted and kept away from being nitpicky. Like many other comments have already stated, you are a masterclass at dissecting these beautiful pieces of art, and I think you will get your own squad after what happened in this video. Best of luck to you. I'm eager to see where the future leads you.
I'm an anarchist, so I played the first game wishing I could abolish nobility and the whole empire thing. In the second game I found myself asking how Emily and Corvo had become such oblivious idiots, in the term of 15 years, about assholes like Abele. On top of that I had to hear it from Megan, someone that I never liked because there's something off about her telling me she has no moral authority to be so harsh on anyone.
In the end, I was right and she was right too. Thinking of watching the Outsider review, I thought Billie might be the one who was carryng Arkane's actual voice on politics. Daud and the Outsider are also tired of power and feel a bit alienated from humanity. But what would happen if anyone could harness the powers from the void now?
I'm afriad after the Redfall embarrassing incident we won't see another game based on the Dishonored universe. And after the aquisition of Bethesda from microsoft I think there's no one left with a moral compass there to write a propper script in a more socialist direction. I think AAA games are doomed. CEO's are greedier than ever, games are outrageously broken and unfinished on release, and gamers are massively turning to shooters and fan service. For the outsider's crooked cock, I hope I'm wrong
Incredible video, you have honestly with a mere two videos became one of favourite channels, keep the good work up.
I'm ten months late but damn. You hit the nail on the head. I'm a huge fan of Dishonored and have been for years, I've replayed it so many times and when the Dishonored 2 announcement came I was as hyped as everyone else, bought it as soon as I could, got my pacifist Emily run done... and then never replayed it. I picked it back up recently for a replay and Im halfway through but I could never quite pin down the reasons it just seemed so lackluster to me. You really nailed what makes this game seem almost like a chore to play even though its gorgeous, and its absolutely the writing, the lack of resolution for the characters and no definitive character development. You can make good choices all day long but you'll never enact REAL change in the game's world and that is never actually critiqued by the narrative. It just had so much potential and playing it again just brings back that feeling of what we COULD have had.
Stellar video and I'll probably be watching whatever else you've already uploaded and will upload next.
This man has the best TH-cam debut of all time , man's been making bangers since literally day one 💯💯
Good to hear that you followed my suggestion and finish up on the Dishonored storyline before continuing the next one 👏
Playing in 2023 and the mouse/frame rate issue seems to be fixed.
The elevator shaft hell still exists though
Regarding giving a voice to Corvo, in Dishonored 1, he had Garrett's voice in my head already anyway.
I kind of wish there was an ending where Emily realized she wouldn't make a good leader so she decides to hold the first election in the world of Dishonored where no matter the class any one could throw thier hat into the ring and all of the isles would be able to choose thier own fate.
"i'm sorry for what i'm about to have to do"
**ad plays**
that was some amazing timing with the ad there 😂
Dishonored is maybe my favourite game series ever, and I this is such a good take on it. I love the passion you clearly have for it, and this is such a thoughtful analysis of the whole affair. Now excuse me whilst I go through all your other videos (especially that Control one, that made me look up in surprise, very excited to see someone addressing that and the new weird genre).
I love these videos, I completely agree with your opinion, I felt empty after playing dishonored 2. I always thought that a lot more commentary on Emily's reing could have been made and it would have improved the game a lot. Keep up the incredible work!
Regarding your point about Corvo killing the guards at the beginning of the game, I don't see that as being uncharacteristic for his low-chaos personality.
Yes, low-chaos Corvo would do everything in his power to avoid killing needlessly. But let's not forget that at the prologue of Dishonored, Corvo killed the Whalers that were attacking Jessamine, even if you do a low-chaos/clean hands run. This situation is no different - another Empress is in danger of being assassinated and she's Corvo's own daughter no less. Also, everything happened suddenly and it was no time for him to be subtle or merciful with his opponents. And what's more, he would refuse to repeat the same mistake again - to let another Empress die on his watch. Especially, on the anniversary of his greatest failure.
So my closing argument for low-chaos Corvo is this - he would avoid killing if he is in control of the situation, but when Jessamine and Emily were in danger, he was not in control of those situations and was forced to eliminate foes quickly and ruthlessly, because it wasn't just his life on the line, but theirs too.
I've thoroughly enjoyed these first two videos! I'm looking forward to watching the next two after I play those games. I appreciate your commentary on the game's uncritical nature in regards to class and imperialism. It rubbed me wrong when I played it and you voiced my thoughts really succinctly.
In your last bit you mentioned a possible video about Control and the new weird genre and personally I would absolutely love to see that!
I really appreciate your kind words. :)
Control video is on the way soon!!! Still in the script editing stages but it is coming!
Love the review, Keep up the good work. Don't feel uncomfortable about talking about the game's story and politics, I'm quite right-wing, and while I may disagree on some details, I entirely agree with your conclusions in regards to the game undermining it's theme. Love hearing a well thought out review that's not inclined to knee-jerk reactions to minor details, and so far neither of your videos have disappointed. Again, Keep up the good work!
I’m very far left and I couldn’t agree more. People who cry about politics in video games need to relax
And often there are themes that explore social issues, not politically based issues.
It's important to understand the distinction.
Great video.
Had no idea this video was so recent, I assumed it was as old as the second game but I'm surprised to see it's only been about 10h since it was posted.
Bonecharm crafting plus the new game plus mechanics were insanely OP. After the fight with Delilah, before choosing to free the statue you can break down ALL of your Bonecharms into whalebone, craft as many runes as possible, buy as many powers as you can to use as many runes as possible, then end the game. The amount of runes you got in New Game Plus is tied to how many you spent in the playthrough you loaded from. Plus you keep all the bonecharm abilities you sacrificed, meaning if you got as much as possible in your first run, in the second you can pick up all the bonecharm crafting upgrades immediately upon getting your powers. Craft a bonecharm with the Void Favor trait 4 times (and if you get lucky, pick it up on a charm during your run) for a huge chance of any power you use being free starting a the very first time you're able to use them. After 2 or 3 more playthroughs you will start each run with enough runes to buy every power and upgrade from the start.
Oh, I just always go the silent way with Jindosh. It's much more fun that way! The biggest difficulty there is to time and aim the jump through the walls correctly. But once you are inside the walls it's fun to sneak around and choking guards while not activating the Clockworks. Then I get to Jindosh's office, aim a Sleep Dart from a distance and escape before the Clockworks patrolling his office can find me. Then I come back and destroy both Clockworks with stun mines.
Instant like. Your first video was amazing. I'm sure this will follow
In your video on the first Dishonored you said that it was clear Corvo needed to protect Jesamine so the game doesn't count the assassins as Corvo's kills and doing so makes sense. This is exactly what happens in the intro sequence so I don't understand why you didn't like it here.
I think this does come down to the writing of the main protags not being explicit enough but I do think we're to understand that emily does learn about her own complicity and laziness and goes forth to make a change. Shes directly called out for this by sokolov and billie just off the top of my head.
I'm a huge fan of long-form critiques like Joseph Anderson, Reykavik and witelights' videos. Almost never comment or like videos, but I've never seen such a polished video from a completely new creator. Can't believe this is only your 2nd video.
Kinda funny talking about Corvo's brutality, while ingame cutscene has Corvo saying stuff about Empress' death and how he misses her, lays rose to her portrait.
Wow! You don’t make many videos but your quality of video is very high! Great mic great editing. I particularly loved the parts where you showcase the music. I love listening to wrenhaven river when I go for walks. Keep it up
Watching your two dishonored videos, I’m definitely happy that you’ll be coming for Death of the Outsider first (because it works, and also because I haven’t finished Prey yet.) These are some extremely good critiques, and especially for your first two videos. I definitely approve of this, and I agree with how 2 definitely missed some parts, and I feel you definitely touched on some of the main parts.
Commenting on the sort of let-down of the low-chaos story’s resolution, this is sort of why, opposite to the Dishonored 1 DLCs, I found high chaos more compelling. Emily instead feeling stifled by her position, feeling screwed over by people she had sacrificed for, and resolving to stop at nothing to take vengeance because she had been given a great excuse? Very compelling.
Especially since ya know Emily probably shouldn’t be empress. Ichabod Boyle is sorta right, he asks “should parliament rule?” And Emily has the power to radically reform parliament to better serve the people and not make it solely nobles, and then increase it’s powers.
actually, arkane kind of tackles the story of tyvia in deathloop, since it takes place on the shore of it
i invite you to consider that this video was made before deathloop released, lol
As a big fan of both games your video essays actually beautifully capture the exact reasoning when I still prefer dishonored over dishonored 2 when there are so many more objective improvements in the sequel. I still have more hours in the first game than the second and I never could vocalise to myself why. This wonderfully executed video really is a treat with such a great analytical approach to the whole series. Amazing work and thoroughly enjoyed.
I love returning to this series every now and then, and this watch through has made me decide to replay either Dishonored 2 or Death of the Outsider with my hud turned off on max difficulty!
Might even try powerless non lethal
Outsider was perfect detached, cold he was amazing. New guy is good but the first game is just iconic
My biggest gripe of the whole game is how the water physics clip into and nearly sink the little boat whenever you go to or from the missions and similarly that people can drown in 2 inches of water cause of how the water is programmed. First mission to the city and the waves almost go up to Meagan’s waist even tho we’re in a boat.
i'm a VERY thorough stealth-oriented player and i remember that my first playthrough of duke abel's palace took me something like 8-9hrs just because i was enjoying exploring it so much
(i AM with you on the matter of the lack of emotional weight in a lot of the characters. i love this game but i feel like the voice direction really lets the game and character potential down - i felt like corvo had more personality in dh1 despite his lack of voice just through his dialogue options and the way others responded to him. it was a mixture of subtle in-game cues and leaving enough room for the player imagination to fill in the gaps. the voice acting of dh2 meanwhile takes away that room for imagination without offering a lot of emotional depth in exchange)
After having recently been playing through Dishonored 2, I completely agree with your take about how the studio didn’t fulfill on their own narrative and themes. I’m not even super left leaning, but I do think I would have respected Arkane’s story more if in the good ending, Emily had at least made reference to starting some major reform more than “I gotta pay more attention in court.”
Loved the video. Watched both close together and it's given me the itch to go and re-play both games. Looking forward to the Prey video.
As far as the burden of sequels goes, you nailed it with your sequel. Finishing off the Dishonored series certainly makes more sense, to me at least, but I greatly look forward to both videos either way.
What's kind of sad is that the "Howlers vs the Overseers" is that there's always hints throughout that Paolo wants to help the people and put the power in their hands, but when you kill/turn over Byrns it falls into chaos without the order the Overseers bring, so if you don't take a side and put the Duke's double into power, that becomes one if the best outcomes because it's implied the Howlers and Overseers compromise on issues to help the people (at least that's how I thought it was) but the game just kinda glosses over it and doesn't do much with something like that beyond that
Dishonored 2 is just big enough when you get done with an area you kinda want to speed up the actual mission so I always moved a little quicker through all of the main mission areas.
Your oops all anti-capitalism part of the video pretty much encapsulated my thoughts and feelings upon my recent replay of both Dishonored 1 and 2. Both are deeply anti-police and talk about class conflict, but neither really tackles this in the story.
I think this can partly be explained by both titles being manufactured for a wider audience, meaning in order to generate broad appeal, strong political messages are discouraged.
I do think the games would have been significantly more impactful as art if they acted more on that note. Emily noticing that democritazing a country could eventually prevent despots like Abele would have been satisfying to me. But, alas, being a product of a neoliberal society, individual changes (we need a "good" king) are preferred over systemic ones.
Short side note: I remember in one level in DH2, two NPCs were talking about the workers of a company uniting in order to enforce higher salaries, just teatering along the line of actually saying "seizing the means of production" - a lot of the game's message was undermined for the sake of marketability.
I personally think the story's big flaw was giving short shrift certain Machiavellian realities of politics. Emily tried to be a good sovereign. A lot of the lore you find in the first Dunwall level confirms that much. She cracked down on the criminal enterprises that thrived during the plague, and restored the flooded district to a habitable state. She even created a social program to support military veterans. But in a system like Dunwall's, you run into the same problems you do with modern real-world politics: in order to get anything really meaningful done, you have to secure the at least nominal cooperation of your political opposition, and absolute monarch or not, that has a tendency to hamstring your agenda. That doesn't change or excuse the fact that Emily and Corvo benefit from an inherently exploitative system, or that they made the all too common mistake of conflating the needs and interests of the capital with those of the empire and by extension, the citizenry as a whole. It does give Emily as a character more depth and empathy than I think your conclusion gives her credit for. A lot of the villains of this piece seem to be complicit for shallow reasons that don't support the game's thematic message, as compared to the original where the parallels between the conspirators and the loyalists are easier to draw. For your consideration: Duke Abelle could have couched his greed as a desire for genuine independence from the empire, Jindosh could have been a futurist preparing for an eventuality that no one else can see. instead of a generic mad scientist, and Ashworth could have been a genuine rival to Delilah masquerading as a devotee. Basically, let them be genuine consequences of complacency rather than just villainous caricatures of class warfare stereotypes. What would have really interested me would be a return to the hook from the original's last mission, seeing the more merciful options build a base of popular support for a restorationist movement, because the characters do learn something genuinely meaningful from their experiences, and have that reflected in the design of the game's ultimate confrontation. Let me be clear that i still enjoy the story as it stands, but if we really expect it to carry such weighty political messages on the back of little more than mustache-twirling villainy, then we'd need a more compelling connection and contrast between our heroes and villains. Excellent essay, keep up the great content.
To make a slight defense for Emily and Corvo appearing to not do much with their power, they don't have absolute power. There's at least a parliament, which the Pendletons were in from the first game, and if it's anything like the English one it would be made up of lords who wouldn't want to lose their money or standing. So change there would be hard, and Emily would have to pick her battles. As for Luca being in power, keep in mind Emily is watching over an entire empire, it's hard getting into the nitty-gritty of every corner of every city to know what's wrong, and sometimes when you already have 20 urgent problems and hundreds of less urgent, it's easier to ignore something like a leader being more corrupt than usual then add more to your pile.
All that being said, you're definitely right in there should have been more depth and growth, and just because turning a blind eye can be easier it doesn't mean you're guilt free.
49:40 the protagonist gets not-so-subtly called out by both Sokolov and Meagan for their part in the rise of the Duke and his wrongdoings in the intros to missions 6 and 8 though, not to mention all the clues we find here and there like Meagan snidely remarking that the protag should know they're low on resources because their own policies on Whale Oil have been bleeding people dry for energy. I get that it isn't the most prevalent theme but it's still very noticeable
Corvo getting zapped in the beginning is wild. Corvo should have been not playable, silent, and more cleverly dishonored. Then we play as Emily and try to save the guy we love from the first game
I'm glad I'm not the only one who only heard Wilson Fisk instead of Luka Abelle. I tried so hard, too. I have great respect for Vincent D'Onofrio.
8:30 my thoughts on Corvo killing the guards- either the high chaos in Dishonored 1 is canon (not likely, considering Emily’s disposition), or he is desperate not to repeat the events of the prior game, and didn’t have the luxury of examining the situation critically. Emily being the canon protagonist also fits, Delilah would have considered Corvo the greater threat.
Great video!
I did thw puzzle at the door.... Took me like 15 mins to figure it out.... Probably shouldve done the other things
My girlfriend solved the door, then I got rid of both leaders anyway 😅
On one hand, I can understand your gripe about the opening scene with Corvo, but honestly, looking at that situation, there wasn’t anything else he could really do. None of his powers are “instantly knock a group of people unconscious.” He either kills those three guards aiming their weapons at Emily, and likewise, kills Delilah so he can stop this and focus on beating the robots, or he gambles Emily’s life to preserve theirs. Really, his only non-lethal option would be to run, but with Delilah there, that’s easier said than done, especially while carrying Emily.
That said, they could have done it differently. Like have this reveal happen in a setting that lets fleeing be an option, then have you choose your character, and the other gets taken as the chosen one flees somehow (likely by being knocked over the edge or something, so as to make it clear saving the other is not an option).
I love your channel since I recently watched these videos, and am a new subscriber.