Intro: (0:00) Part 1 - Emily Shrugged: (13:05) Part 2 - Where the Bloodflies Sing: (39:22) Part 2.1 - The Crown Killer: (54:22) Part 2.2 - Kirin Jindosh: (1:27:50) Part 2.3 - Breanna Ashworth: (1:57:37) Part 2.4 - Paolo & Vice Overseer Byrne: (2:14:21) Part 2.5 - Aramis Stilton: (2:36:18) Part 2.6 - Duke Luca Abele: (2:56:17) Part 3 - The Picture of Delilah Copperspoon: (3:17:16) Part 4 - Do Clockwork Soldiers Dream of Clockwork Sheep?: (3:47:11) For your viewing convenience.
Actually insane. Came across your D1 video last night and binged it through in one sitting as your critique was as compelling as any video from the Holy Trinity (Mathewmatosis, JA, and Noah CG). My personal favs, at least. Had your DLC critique lined up to watch this evening, and lo and behold, I’m grateful to have another long-form analysis lined up in advance to occupy my anxious thoughts tomorrow night! Absolutely giddy, and thank you so much for putting such tremendous thought and effort into shining a light on a particularly unique franchise that I sometimes feel is wholly overrated, but at other times, grossly underrated (as evidenced by the lack of satisfying critiques I’ve scoured through-even NCG’s-until finally coming across yours). Looking forward to spending the next two nights immersed in your thoughts. D2’s one of my favorite games of all time, and I can’t wait to hear you dissect it all, both the good and the bad. Cheers.
My favorite detail about this game is that if you refuse the outsider powers and don't pick up any bone charms, you find a dying overseer at the front gate of the castle who takes comfort in your presence before his passing. It always stuck with me after I found that the first time.
I always wondered how can he sense Void's influence in others without having supernatural powers himself. 🤔 Evidently, madness and physical taint are pretty obvious on many of the witches and cultists, some of the Mark bearers have hardly any outwards signs. Like, I get that the things like Sacred Music, Oraculum and Whale oil-derived tech can be harnessed and advanced by trial and error without ant magical rituals or insight. So, what gives? Is it that Void sensitivity is a neutral trait, but individual can decide for themselves whether to use it to hunt witches or to become one? 🤔
I think that instead of the Outsider branding Emily, Corvo should have gifted what power he could to Emily, like how Daud and Delilah did to their respective followers. Both Corvo and Emily could have escaped with Corvo injured, requiring Emily to go out and complete missions. A reward for new game plus would be to play as Corvo, who, thanks to being branded, could serve as a power fantasy on top of a power fantasy.
The major narrative criticism I hold with the game is that they give payoff to things that weren't built up, and build up to things that have little payoff.
Having seen this video I really realized that now. Even playing it I got bummed how we get characters on the boat that just suddenly vanish, Lucas’s crimes, etc.
I saw the video and thought "Wait is it that guy?" after seeing the views. Hopefully this channel will blow up at some point because this is ridiculous.
I may prefer the first game for its story but I'll never forget the day this gams came out and I beat it in one sitting over the course of 19 hours and then immediately aftering beating it I started a new playthrough and played another 9 hours completing my second playthrough (I've got severe insomnia)
@@blakepottebaum8365 100% agree. In my video on the original game I go indepth about how it doesn't work and tons of red pills commented how wrong I was 😂
21:15 The non-lethal solutions reflecting the targets' crimes is why Lady Boyle's is my least favorite. She funded a coup so she gets shipped off as a prisoner to an obsessed creep? That punishment doesn't really seem to fit to me. 1:43:48 I love the Hamlet quote in Delilah's note to Kirin. Very fitting considering she's claiming to be Emily's aunt and seized the throne.
Dropped by to tell you, that I appreciate the dishonored conversations being upheld, for one- and I also appreciate your long-form game criticism. Thank you for your time, effort and hard work, Kaldini
This series will forever be my favorite. Thank you for a great long video on discussing it in very deep detail. I have such admiration for the aspects of D2, that you also give praise to in this video, that any change suggested at first seems like "unnecessary", but you word your suggestions and thoughts very well. Also makes me come to terms with the lesser parts of the game (narrative, pacing). The level design and aesthetic of this game is so incredible and I really hope Arkane Lyone will return to this series after their Marvel (hopeful) detour. Like I genuinely could just stand there at the fish market where you land in Karnaca for hours.
@@kaldini that's the joke hahahah really enjoying it so far, got the 100% last year and while a I like the levels and gameplay in general, the flow of the story is a pretty weak point of the game
Watched the whole video over the course of a few days. Can’t imagine how long it took you to piece this all together because the style & substance were impeccable. I also just have to say it’s criminal that, as of this comment, it doesn’t even have 10,000 views
@@alextomich Thank you for the compliment! Appreciate you checking it out. It took about 5 months to finish! And despite it not really 10k views yet, it's still my most successful first 7 days of a video ever :) which I'm grateful for
I'm very glad that someone who truly appreciates immersive sims like you is providing valid and useful criticism regarding Dishonored. Your videos are like a window (or a looking glass) to what could have been done better, or maybe will be done better in the future. I love the effort you put into these videos and the love you have for the worlds Arkane has created. I wish you success going forward 🙏 Last thing, I would personally prefer the next big video to be about Prey. I find it to be one of the most complete and near-flawless games I have ever played. It feels like the developers thought about each and every corner of the world thoroughly, and left no holes that could be exploited.
@@corvoattano7447 thank you for the kind words. I too am looking forward to making the video on Prey 2017, mainly because it'll require me to play through the game several more times. Have the Death of the Outsider video, I'm currently thinking I'll do a couple "palette cleanser" videos before launching into another big immersive sim project. Similar to what I did between the Dishonored 1 and 2 videos, although this time hopefully it won't be two years between them haha.
I think the "can't stop the seance" bit would've worked better if we witnessed it in the present. That is, we need to travel to the past to find the code but we enter the study in the present & watch an echo of what happened, unable to change the outcome. Maybe the ritual magic prevents the timepiece from accessing the room in the past (the same way something blocks us from accessing the room in the present in the actual game). And the narrative explanation for why we can't wait until the seance is complete to kill the conspirators when they come out of the room is again magically handwaved: the timepiece only works while the ritual & the glowing symbols are live so once the conspirators clean it up the magic doesn't work. That could also account for why we can change Stilton's fate since he was the only one who was outside the room when it started. (Obviously being unable to mess with time at all & saving or killing Stilton not being an option would've worked best but we need the time travel fuckery for some of the puzzles so I think this would've been an acceptable solution. This would also imply that the void leaking is contained to just a specific moment in time that cannot be influenced without the timepiece so it also allows for that plot thread to be ignored as it is in the game.)
Another thing, Empress Emily dissolved the Abbey in the spring of 1853, because after the events of DOTO, the entire existence of the Abbey has no purpose. So either way the Abbey's existence will end entirely, so choosing them has no meaning. Best choice is choosing the Duke's double to rule and killing or eliminating both Paolo and Byrne.
I'm very glad to see the new video by you about the Dishonored series games I'd be interested in you addressing the changes of the Outsider character between the first game and the second. I feel like the change of the voice actor and the writing really did a disservice to the character. I felt like in the first game the whole story was a dialogue between the main character and the Outsider with player's actions as dialogue options. The theme was what would you do if you had a power beyond any mortal - would you get corrupted or would you try to be moral The first game showed the Outsider as a bored and powerful entity, mostly uninterested in the mortal world but in the second game he teleports around like it's the first time he got his powers and he even has an agenda. Also, it was strange that you didn't mention that the dreadful whale was named like that because it is a reordering of letters on a phrase "farewell Daud". That comes into play in the DotO expansion, so there's still time It would be interesting to see an analysis of the original Deus Ex, but that's just a preference (and maybe you already did and I need to rewatch it) Anyways, was very happy to watch your new video and happy to wait for the new one. No rush, as always - quality comes first, so take your time and stay sane
I mention it at the end, but I decided to save discussing the Outsider for DOTO. It felt more relevant for that discussion. I do agree however, the Outsider went from being one of the most interesting aspects of the the Dishonored series to being one of my least favorite parts of it. After the DOTO video, I'm planning for the next big project to either be Prey 2017, the two Styx games, or the two modern Deus Ex games. Haven't fully decided yet because I want to just get through the Dishonored series first before committing to another big series haha. Thanks for watching and giving your thoughts.
@@kaldini I gotta admit, I'm one of the few people who found the tortured teenager Outsider much more compelling than the 'bored cthulhu' edgelord in the first game. In the first game, the Outsider seemingly has no motivation or reason to do what he does, which is really boring. In the next game, he has several personal stakes in the events and therefore a reason to care about what Emily, Corvo and Meagan are up to.
That’s a really long video but a very good one, and I respect the effort put into this one (and in the series in general). I will share my thoughts about it. First the chaos system, I have nothing to say more than I already said previously. The only thing that I will had is on a psychological standpoint. One of the issues in D1 is that there is the chaos system which is centered around (but not a one to one equivelent to) lethal/non lethal dynamic on spread discrete moments across the game, but the gameplay is also centered around the continuous stealth/combat dynamic, which to some players bother them, because those two dynamics are very orthogonal. With this one, the game better reflect the playstyle of the player, but I don’t know how much deep that stealth/combat axis is being use. Second the narrative, I think your analysis of the story and the themes and how the game handle them is very spot on. The proposal you gave is sound and show a lot thought has been made into this analysis. The only thing I will comment on is on Delilah. I think her return his (almost) necessary if you maintain the constraint of playing Emily or Corvo. The reason I think that is that you didn’t start the analysis at the correct moment, meaning you need to start from the end (the canonical ending), in which the Outsider either prophesy a future or is living this very future about the reign of Corvo and Emily. Either way, the existence of D2 for those characters imply that this future didn’t happen, and so the Outsider error bring the question of how did that happen. Arkane could have added some mystical elements or a new character from the Void who as outsider like abilities...but then since the story would be centered around Emily and Corvo, why such powerful being would ally with a simple Duke for a coup… ? Bringing Delilah solve those issues and at the same time create the idea that the Outsider may be seen as a god from the simple mortel and that he can see the world from his point view, but the Void himself, even to him is not a place that he own. Regarding her non-lethal route, in the DLC Daud imprisoned her in the Void, but her spirit remained, and it was strong enough for her to escape. In this one, not only is she trapped in the Void again, making her separate from the world of the Isles, but it is also and foremost a prison of her mind, made by her, confine in the Void that she has mold for herself. And so She wanted the world to bow in front of her, to transpose her worldview of what a perfect world is without compromises onto others, to be the center stage of the world, and she will forever think she succeeded, she will forever think she is the center stage of the world, forever trapped in her own perfection. It certainly feet your requirement of poetic justice. And for the crack in the slab section, it is not just a time travel thing, it is a synchronisation from time period since the time piece allows to see from the other time bits and the time keeps flowing in both periods simultaneously and synchronously, this is not just a simple back and forth, and as such having a fixed point in time that connect both period and cannot be interact with in a way the game present it, was not particularly shocking to me. The only thing is then that I think Aramis should not have been “saveable” from this section, and instead I would have prefer something of finding some object in the past and what not that when brought to Aramis in the present allow himself to regain clarity (to a certain degree).
Now for the limits of this video. One is on the Dreadful Wale. The other is about the idea of the need to expand the consequences of choices beyond what is there. For the boat level, I agree that the little side quest here should have been remove, that some characters could have stay longer, or some could have been added beyond Hypatia, Sokolov, Megan and Aramis (two of them even are missable). But at the end, the Hound Pits and the Dreadful Wale doesn’t belong in the same story, and it is quite normal than they do not have the same purpose, and regarding the Dreadful Wale it is normal than it cannot have the same purpose, and so cannot have the full equivalent features of the Hound Pits. Arkane needed a Hub for the briefing mission because if it was not the case, it would mean that between levels the player will be in new areas that would not have been properly introduce (creating some dissociation between what the player knows and what the avatar of the player knows). Here they properly introduce the Dreadful Wale in the first level, the dreadful Wale has a little boat that can bring Emily or Corvo and the player to the mission location, all information has been communicated properly to the player and to the avatar synchronously and it will remain that way across the game. Beside the dreadful Wale can act as a way to give an understanding of Karnaca since the boat stay far enough from the land, and it is a breather that help the player decide when he thinks it is time to go (it can be quite quick like 40 seconds, doesn’t matter). Also it is a way to maintain the engagement of the player since they have the control of when the mission start. Now to even go further, at some point you argue that it is a miss opportunity because having new characters and the others staying longer could have help support the theme that Emily is a poor leader and so forth. That I disagree. Right now I can play the game and be in « I am going to play as the perfect assassin that only kill the target and take back my throne » and doing this roleplay I will not be concerned about NPCs and all, yet in the final mission in Karnaca, I will be in low chaos and the dialogue with Megan about Emily understanding that she hasn’t been up to her duty will happen, and yet I, the player, under this roleplay, didn’t do anything to demonstrate to the game that I understand myself the theme and how I want to react to it. And this is not a flaw of the narrative, it is a flawed that is routed to the expressions (gameplay that has meaning for the player) the game offers to the players. Between stealth/combat or non-lethal/lethal there is nothing that is centered around NPCs and therefore the player cannot express anything regarding the narrative of the game, the only option is to let it play as the developer wants it. Your proposal will only add more « press f to talk to » dynamic and Emily or Corvo would be the one doing the conversations. It will not allow the player to assert something or showing that he understand the theme and all. You may say they can do branching dialogue options as they already dead, as others games does like RDR2, GTA IV, GTA V, Detroit Become Human and many many more….To me it will decrease the elegance of the game, and it will put the choices so much on the nose that it will decrease the weight of those compared to the ones that is more elegantly integrated into the game (even if there are not as consequential and sometimes not that logical). If you wanted the themes to be more substantial, you need other elements of gameplay for that (It is the continuity of the argument I made in the first Dishonored video when I brought Frostpunk into play), and it will be fair that I also come with proposal of my own so you can judge. -->Here is how I see it. For example D2 could have used an inventory system Prey-like when you can grab items as much as you can store items from your personal inventory into the different elements of the world, crate, vault….. There are some scripted events like the one near the wall of lights in the beginning of Karnaca, when the duke guards ask money to a shopkeeper that doesn't have the money, the shopkeeper try as much as he can to delay the guards but they reach the vault, see that there is nothing and kill the shopkeeper or destroy some of its goods… the player could have understand that the shopkeeper was buying time and they could put some money (the money they could use to upgrade themselves) in the vault before the guards comes in. Then the game detect that the player has put the minimum of money required and another script plays out, the guards threaten the shopkeeper that next time he better not waste his time and give the money right away, and leaves. The devs could have prepare some additional dialogue with the NPC if the player want to talk to the NPCs afterwards and let himself noticed. Or has already mentioned a healing system that has an area of effect, and so the player could heal some ill NPCs along is way if they wanted to. These interactions can easily (on a technical standpoint) been implemented and cannot been done my mistake, they need to be thought by the player, and in such case, the mentioned dialogue above with Megan in the last mission of Karnaca can be earned, not just display out of nowhere. In the current state of the game, this dialogue comes out of nowhere but it only appear here, the dissociation is very localised and put to a minimum but with your suggestions I am afraid that those sort of dissociation will appear more and more, because again for me it is not the amount of NPCs that will correct this issue, the issue is a consequence of the verbs that the game gives to the players. Speaking of choices, let speak of the consequences of the choices. I argue that it is not necessary to have choices that have huge implications to have choices that is meaningful to the player. Having small but impactful and well implemented arrangements (an other word for consequence that is more appropriate I would say) can be more important than huge impersonal consequences. I will bring the comment under this video that you highlight about the overseer in the last mission and how that interaction plays differently if the players refuse the mark of the Outsider. There is nothing technically complicated to implemented the consequence from the choice the player made in the beginning. It is just two dialogues connected to a variable that the player determine when the player make the choice. And yet, in this long video essay, this guy of everything the game has to offer, of everything your video tackle, this is what he spontaneously wanted to leave as a comment, the moment he was able to offer some relief of peace to that overseer because he was doing a run with no powers. And so as much as I love your proposal for consequences, I cannot know if those consequences could be felt as personal as the one mentioned above. And so is an issue for games that have choices, a lot of them failed to feel personal. And this is the strength of Prey because Prey is as flawed as D2 is. They didn’t technically improve on anything, they just have themes and story that does a better use of the imsim structures of System Shock 2 and Arx Fatalis (a structure already quite well formed since the early 2000s), basically a better use of the language that permits such structures of games. Prey is a game centered around the NPCs and how the player will define themselves in relation to those NPCs, most of the side mission in this game is about helping the NPCs find closure. There is no hyper complicated political theme and all, just who, the player, want to become, want to treat the other remaining survivors, small but impactful personal arrangements. But at no point from System Shock to Prey have those games proposed radical consequences, there are only arrangements, and maybe this is a limit of the structure of those games, and It is more visible from some than others. Anyhow, this is a very huge and well made video, andI will be interesting to see what you gonna say about DotO, Prey, Prey Mooncrash and Deathloop (which contrary to some and despite of it weakness is a game of maturity that I very much like).
I remember getting the preorder cloth reversible mask for this one. Playing on console around launch sucked for me since I was still a serial reloader when getting spotted. I enjoyed it, and I'm glad to see the narrative get a closer examination. Sorry for the rambling, just wanted to get some thoughts out and help the algorithm push the video.
I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again; the sequels shouldn’t have been direct. Just let it take place in the universe. Don’t even need to call it Dishonored. Bust out the thesaurus and pick something similar.
2:48:50 The obvious answer is that time travel (very likely) can't exist in real worlв on the macroscopic scale with either matter or information, and therefore as something deeply unscientific (largely borne of our trouble comprehending time) can work in whatever way the fantasy writer wants and they don't have to tell us how it works (unless a lot of visible contradictions are happening). Firstly, it bears mentioning, that the concept of "butterfly effect" might simply not exist in Dishonored universe as a fact. Secondly, we can only determine how magic works in this universe by observing what it does. What happens in these games is what _can_ happen. It's a mystical occultic universe and the magic of the Void is not a well understood phenomenon. Even what people like Granny Rags or Delilah can do is merely scratching the surface for all we know. Position #1: You can't stop or undo the seance itself. From what you can gather the seance is an anchor for this time travel situation happening. The fact, that other members of seance don't walk around the mansion and can't be interacted could mean plenty of things. My biggest guess is mansion is a place where connection between time and space, cause and effect, waking world and the Void is broken somehow. The seance is the damage, it is the proverbial crack. We are lucky, that our protagonist can change anything at all and not get spliced across spacevoidtime or something. Position #2: you can interact with Stilton outside the seance. Him being missing from the seance doesn't change its outcome. Why? Maybe he is not that necessary to the ritual, maybe the Void interacted with him funny, maybe he is tied to this place in a way nobody else isn't. Maybe it's one of the ways reality uses your intrusion to give you an option to resolve the damage done by Delilah's ritual. But at the end of a day - we don't know. In Bioshock Infinite terms (and I loathe to use it as a positive example) the Delilah's reappearance from the Void and binding to an effigy is a 'constant', the coup is a 'constant', general time/place of you meeting other conspirators are 'constants', while Aramis Stilton's fate is a 'variable'. Constant and variables is a rule of time travel just as good as Butterfly Effect time travel or Novikov's self-consistency principle or Back to the Future's "fading" and travelling between different timelines without losing your alternative memories or clothes. Or just as bad, there is no single correct way to do time travel. Plenty of the closed stable time loop stories ignore both butterfly effect and entropy completely, which are inviolable in our world, as far we know. The same piece of paper travel through time in a loop indefinitely. A guy is his own grandparent. You name it. Butterfly effect in time travel stories is an element. Not the element. The fact that time travel is not explained, I think is a boon and works in game's advantage, adding to the world's mystique. You never see the games outright state the connection between the void and time, but you are constantly shown it. In stills from the Void, in sounds catching up to you as you Blink, in time stop ability and other things. And Void isn't just connected to time, it is connected to dreams. And whales. And magic. I honestly think that Death of Outsider did a disservice to Dishonored, revealing too much too fast.
Fantastic analysis from beginning to end, I would have loved to see what direction the narrative could have taken if they had explored the whole "It's a privilege to rule" and committed to the Crown Killer and The Duke as the main villains. What I was looking forward to when the D2 got announced was them expanding on the relationship between Corvo and Emily but that was largely non existent, the bulk of their interactions being relegated to only the tutorials, intro and ending. I think there was a lot of potential if both of them were present throughout the game with Corvo commenting on Emily's decisions as he has seen the consequences of decisions made by those in power from the first game.
It would be much more interesting if Delilah was a protagonist for the DLC for Dishonored 2 instead of boring Billie Lurk! There is so much backstory surrounding Delilah that could have been told from her perspective. Stories like how she founded the coven in the 1835, how her and Breanna met, how Delilah and Luca met, story of Brigmore Witches from Delilah's perspective, or Delilah's time in Karnaca from her perspective, Dishonored 2's story from Delilah's perspective etc. As you can see, all these stories that I have presented would be way more interesting to explore than what we got with DOTO.
@@bilbobaggins2807 ehh, personally I disagree. I think the story of DOTO we got but with some adjustments to better fit the themes present as well as more (and better) characterization of Daud could've actually been a good story. I'll explain more of this in that eventual video. Delilah is only interesting in my opinion when she's a foil to Daud, given their similarities. I think a whole DLC based around her, especially as she's portrayed in D2 would've been a nightmare.
Id def be most interested in prey.. it’s probably my favorite arkane game and I think arkane is quite possibly the most under rated game studio in existence .. dishonored. D2, doto, prey, deathloop.. all these games r absolutely fantastic, and I consider all of them to be amongst my favorite games ever … I haven’t played redfall that’s why r I’m leaving it out, not just because of the bad rap it has, but I haven’t personally played it to comment on it because I don’t own a pc or an Xbox
I like D2 more than D1 because of all the improvement they made in term of graphic and gameplay. The only thing D2 didn't match is the world setting which is understandable because it happened after the plague was over.
Honestly, I love the idea of Delilah being the bastard queen. We saw in the DLC and the sequel how charismatic she was and she did love her coven once. She deeply understood the struggle of the working class and had beef with the royals. She was selfish and driven. If they really played the political aspects of the story properly then Delilah would have had a stronger base of power and Emily would have been forced to see how inept she AND her mother was (i still believe her mom wasn't a good ruler, caring yes, but not good)
Personally, I'd love to see your thoughts on the modern Deus Ex games. They both have ups and downs, but they each do some things that feel very special.
love ur video. i also hated the plot being worse version of dishonored 1 expansion. i feel that changing of voice actor for outsider hurt him the most in the game
Honestly I was so put off by the decision to bring Delilah back that I didn't buy the game until this year. When it was six bucks and change Canadian. Bundled with Prey. And the first DIshonored is maybe my favourite game of all time.
The biggest shame in the Dishonored series for me is that it has all the critiria to be an excellent stealth game:thoughtfull and great level design, stunning enviroments, creative tools and powers. Unfortunately due to a combination of bad A.I and game inbalance that makes the player just too strong, iťs hard to meaningfully engage with the stealth system because even if you break out of it they are no meaningfull consecuences and you can get away scot free. I hope that if there is a dishonored 3 in the works it will provide a bit more neance and complexity in the stealth system, because i feel that Arkane Studios was pretty close into creating something truly special Great video by the way even if i dont agree with some things, the best games are the ones worth arguing for
I found Dishonored: Death of the Outsider and the accompanying novel Dishonored: Return of Daud amusing as they seem to backtrack and improve on many narrative aspects from the first two games. Even narratively, DOTO pretty much admits that the Abbey is a cancerous organization, that Delilah was a nonsensical character that was poorly written in the sequel, that Daud did what he had to do and IS the greatest character in this series and that ultimately, the Outsider himself was so complex that they've re-written him from this Ctuluhuesque antagonist to a sympathetic, tortured hero of sorts. Two studios working on these games are incongruent with their supposedly shared vision. The Chaos system must have been a pain in the ass to develop as it caused a huge point of contention for many players. And then we got Deathloop low-low claiming to be an actual spin-off in the Dishonored universe which was an insane call from Arkane Lyon. All that culminated in proving why immersive stealth-action sims are a difficult genre to develop and are ultimately, sunk cost fallacies for many studios because few people have the patience to acquire such tastes and development teams ultimately relying on this "lightning in a bottle" effect that the first Dishonored game had, but the second failed to maintain. This also affected Prey, which was a far more cohesive game than Dishonored 2 or Deathloop ever were.
love your stuff and the video so far but the link for the game maker's toolkit video you recommend at 1:42:28 isnt in the description or the pinned comment
DELILAH IS TELLING THE TRUTH!!!!! The Heart (Jessamine) CONFIRMS EVERYTHING SHE SAID (to Emily)!!!! Here are four important lines from Jessamine (the Heart). 1. "I knew her, as a child. We played together at Dunwall Tower. She was a kitchen girl and I... I was..." 2. "Many times, her father (Emperor Euhorn) told her that she was a princess, and PROMISED THAT ONE DAY SHE WOULD BE A QUEEN (EMPRESS)". 3. "They were never fair to her. No kindness was ever shown. They whipped her. Sent her in the streets." 4. "She watched her mother sicken and die in the debtor's prison. She will never forget. Never forgive." Also one additional quote: "Forgive me, Delilah. I should have tried to find you." All this was confirmed by Harvey Smith himself, who I sometimes talk to. Also, Delilah's whole story and motivation would not make sense if she was lying. It is also really stupid that Emily puts doubt to the player whether Delilah is telling the truth, because she herself addresses Delilah as her aunt every time she speaks of her.
@@bilbobaggins2807 do you have a link to Harvey confirming this? I ask because each of those hearts give just enough wiggle room (in my opinion) to be interpreted either way. We know that Jessamine was a caring woman and so it's not unreasonable for her to feel guilt that she got her childhood friend kicked out and put into a bad position. Additionally, as I say in the video, whether she's telling the truth or not ends up not mattering because nothing comes of it. It just ends up not being interesting.
If you mix up the letters in DREADFUL WALE you can get FAREWELL DAUD. Wail and whale are spelled differently so it’s done on purpose since she was second in command
I agree about the non lethals reflecting the crime/poetic justice standpoint with the exception of lady Boyle in the first game. That one is pretty yucky
Haven't finished the video yet, but since you mentioned: Clockwork mansion made me quit. I only came back and finished the game until 2 years late, with trainer to basically skip this level. (was already a Dishonored fan) There's no way they put this so ealry in game. I know I shouldn't be expecting ghost and no kills in my first playthrough. But it really was that frustrating to have so many mechanics in one single level. I'd rather they spread each challange evenly in future levels. I suppose it's something you could only admire and enjoy when you already played the game, not for beginners.
Totally understandable but I'll add that I found it incredibly engaging and enjoyable on my first playthrough. It's a level that I'm hearing more people than I expected don't like. If you don't mind me asking, what's your favorite level in the game?
@@kaldini Finally finished the video, sorry took me 2 nights. I think my favorite is the duke overall. Mechanically wise I think Stilton's. After finishing your video I do feel like I actually missed a lot in the game. I can't imagine this but 12 years later I still suck at dishonored comabt so basically every playthrough is ghost and no kill. I just feel combats are not that worth it and pretty scary? sometimes. I hope they'd done better on this, like you said more rewarding on choices so there's actual big changes how you play the game. So yeah, I do think that, at least for me, if this isn't a real time stealth/ all out combat game some mechanics could be explored better. And I totally agree your take on the plot. The main plot should be more... secular? I mean back in 1, the main plot is political and daud dlc is magical. But this time it's just 2 magical plots. I mean, for Hiram, it's possible that his allies got taken down one by one but he didn't know how to respond properly. But Delilah? You could talk to her in her dreams, with her statue, and she saw you in the past, and there's no actual repsonses until the last level? I mean her reign wasn't that steady, with overseers attacking her. But there's no way she wouldn't do anything to stop Emily. I think this is another point that Delilah shouldn't be the main villain in the game, let alone "It's proper to make her another DLC villain", someone so smart and powerful didn't actually do much to stop her demise. Too silly. I wished there were a level like returning to the pub in 1. Like the dread whale was constantly being hunted and this time they got hit and boarded/ had to wait for fixing and you need to stop the search team.
Duke is not a royal title. -I'd hazard a guess that rulers of Tyvia and Morley don't have higher titles.- No, I'm wrong. Morley is ruled by king and queen and Tyvia ia ruled by... High Judges? According to wiki, that is. That makes exactly two royal families - Caldwin and whatever is king Briam's surname. Emily still needs to secure an heir, though, so marriage proposals are a given. 🤔
@@221B-o4e To be fair, I started talking about the series two years ago with my original critique and am circling back to finish the series. I'm glad the series is getting more attention though.
I just want a fov slider 😒 The fact the display setting has a whole menu but has 1 option BRIGHTNESS enrages me. But i cant play dishonored for longer than an hr without headaches & eye strain.
Story, tone, characters, and lore building are much worse here. All moral ambiguity is out the window, and every character who's done "bad things" is "trying to atone for their sins"... every single one of them. Sometimes I wonder whether they killed off Piero because he was shown as a pervert and they couldn't find a way to clean him up convincingly, given that Sokolov was twisted into a sensitive artist from the first game, where he was a machiavellian and opportunistic genius. The main villain is a cardboard cutout, with demented motivations and an even more demented plan that has no chance to work out, it only does because the writer needs it to. And even the way you defeat her is complete, absolute nonsense, particularly the pacifist solution. None of the main characters are allowed to be anything other than morally upright, or unjustly manipulated into doing evil. The game takes a propagandistic slant, with a very explicit narrative on "power", one that falls short if you use more than two neurons at once when you think about the implications of this whole world. This game also has one of the first implementation of DEI _within the game world_ to the point that even if you're in the equivalent of Morocco, you have equal representation of white, brown, asian and black people, just like in the capital. They also appear to do the same exact things as in the capital, save a few exceptions, so you can't really feel the cultural diversity of Serkonos: it's just like Gristol but warmer. Billie is an interesting character that is weighted by the writer's maniacal pursuit of synthetizing the ultimate intersectional character: a black disabled and economically disadvantaged bisexual woman... someone needs to explain to me how someone with so many physical disabilities, and without powers, can handle a 15m multi-story steel cargo boat all by herself, but I digress. In gameplay terms it's so much more fun than the first game, although the AI is unquestionably worse. The behavior of the guards was quite predictable in the first game, at all difficulties, it was pretty clear when you could be seen and when you would not be seen. In D2 sometimes they can't see you when you're straight in front of them, sometimes they can see you from 30m of distance, sometimes staying in a balcony is safe, sometimes they seem to see a few strands of hair poking out of the handrails. At the highest difficulty this game is excedingly frustrating, and is only saved by the incalculable variety of the game maps.
The first game didn't really have a writer, it was written by the game director. It shows, in certain sections, but the lore and the main plot points were incredibly strong. This game had a narrative designer and several writers. Somehow they did a worse job in all aspects, even though the technically respect all the "rules" of storytelling. But a badly told good story will always beat a well written but awfully uninteresting one.
@@kaldini While I don't think it's a cardinal sin, you still kind of have to question the concessions that were made in immersion and believability for... what exactly?
@@kaldini you had a knee jerk reaction, because I wasn't "ranting about DEI", or at least it's an oversemplification. -What is the single most defining characteristic of Serkonos over Gristol, other than the blood flies, the northern african climate, and the color yellow? What makes it a different country? -Why does Serkonos have the same exact population densities as Gristol? What is the overall culture of Serkonos, and how does it differ from that of Gristol? -Why is Billie Lurk one-armed? What purposed does it serve to the story? How is it justified in-game that she can do all the things she does, given that you effectively never see her doing anything (because they probably couldn't think of it themselves)? Why an arm, and not a leg, which would have been more character-appropriate? Why did they coalesce so many minority characteristics into a single characters just to leave all the other with one or no minority characteristics? To my knowledge, there is one trans character, but they gave her a female voice actor and it is never stated anywhere that she is, they just said it. What for? In both cases, I find it kind of offensive towards the people they meant to represent. A disabled person isn't going to feel represented by a woman without an arm, and possibly other issues, who seems to command an entire steel boat and carry an entire smuggled cargo operation by herself with no explanation as to how she's even able to do that, and the trans character is frankly just a token character.
I finished Dishonored 2 yesterday. And I’m having withdrawal symptoms. First game that has done this to me…. I just loved killing enemies so much in this game….. I was a murdering death bringer……. There is something so visceral about the way you kill enemies in this game…….. the sword….. the gun….. executions….. the enemy bodies feel meaty… chopping them into pieces… jamming your swords through their necks…. It felt somehow real. Hahahahaha I loved it. I liked sneaking up and murdering…. Wind blasting enemies into walls… Razor mines on the ground slicing people up into pieces… Sleep darts… watching them pass out helpless then going up to them to kill them hahahahahaha i loved this game. It’s not perfect…. But i love this game. Giving it a solid 8.7/10.
@@skeetsofrage9517 I also made a joke about Taylor Swift in the video? Did that indicate a bias as well? My point man: perhaps stop trying to find something to get offended about. It's a video about a game and I made a joke. It's not that deep.
Intro: (0:00)
Part 1 - Emily Shrugged: (13:05)
Part 2 - Where the Bloodflies Sing: (39:22)
Part 2.1 - The Crown Killer: (54:22)
Part 2.2 - Kirin Jindosh: (1:27:50)
Part 2.3 - Breanna Ashworth: (1:57:37)
Part 2.4 - Paolo & Vice Overseer Byrne: (2:14:21)
Part 2.5 - Aramis Stilton: (2:36:18)
Part 2.6 - Duke Luca Abele: (2:56:17)
Part 3 - The Picture of Delilah Copperspoon: (3:17:16)
Part 4 - Do Clockwork Soldiers Dream of Clockwork Sheep?: (3:47:11)
For your viewing convenience.
I would just like to recognize you for the very funny "Emily Shrugged" title.
Actually insane. Came across your D1 video last night and binged it through in one sitting as your critique was as compelling as any video from the Holy Trinity (Mathewmatosis, JA, and Noah CG). My personal favs, at least.
Had your DLC critique lined up to watch this evening, and lo and behold, I’m grateful to have another long-form analysis lined up in advance to occupy my anxious thoughts tomorrow night!
Absolutely giddy, and thank you so much for putting such tremendous thought and effort into shining a light on a particularly unique franchise that I sometimes feel is wholly overrated, but at other times, grossly underrated (as evidenced by the lack of satisfying critiques I’ve scoured through-even NCG’s-until finally coming across yours). Looking forward to spending the next two nights immersed in your thoughts. D2’s one of my favorite games of all time, and I can’t wait to hear you dissect it all, both the good and the bad. Cheers.
- Shall we gather to watch a four hour Dishonored 2 retrospective tonight?
- Indeed, I believe so.
Never doubt it.
Go bug someone else! err, I mean Chances are good!
My favorite detail about this game is that if you refuse the outsider powers and don't pick up any bone charms, you find a dying overseer at the front gate of the castle who takes comfort in your presence before his passing. It always stuck with me after I found that the first time.
I always wondered how can he sense Void's influence in others without having supernatural powers himself. 🤔
Evidently, madness and physical taint are pretty obvious on many of the witches and cultists, some of the Mark bearers have hardly any outwards signs.
Like, I get that the things like Sacred Music, Oraculum and Whale oil-derived tech can be harnessed and advanced by trial and error without ant magical rituals or insight. So, what gives?
Is it that Void sensitivity is a neutral trait, but individual can decide for themselves whether to use it to hunt witches or to become one? 🤔
I think that instead of the Outsider branding Emily, Corvo should have gifted what power he could to Emily, like how Daud and Delilah did to their respective followers.
Both Corvo and Emily could have escaped with Corvo injured, requiring Emily to go out and complete missions.
A reward for new game plus would be to play as Corvo, who, thanks to being branded, could serve as a power fantasy on top of a power fantasy.
Babe, wake up. Kaldini remembered his password!
The major narrative criticism I hold with the game is that they give payoff to things that weren't built up, and build up to things that have little payoff.
Having seen this video I really realized that now. Even playing it I got bummed how we get characters on the boat that just suddenly vanish, Lucas’s crimes, etc.
I saw the video and thought "Wait is it that guy?" after seeing the views. Hopefully this channel will blow up at some point because this is ridiculous.
It's that guy!
going to be gathering for whiskey and cigars over this one
Never doubt it.
I may prefer the first game for its story but I'll never forget the day this gams came out and I beat it in one sitting over the course of 19 hours and then immediately aftering beating it I started a new playthrough and played another 9 hours completing my second playthrough (I've got severe insomnia)
Peak gameplay for me
The level design also fucks
21:06 Yeah I still don’t know if Lady Boyle’s nonlethal punishment in D1 was “poetic justice” though.
@@blakepottebaum8365 100% agree. In my video on the original game I go indepth about how it doesn't work and tons of red pills commented how wrong I was 😂
@@kaldini Oh brother. Anyone that disagrees with you is a red piller? That idiotic statement just destroyed any interest I had in watching this video.
21:15 The non-lethal solutions reflecting the targets' crimes is why Lady Boyle's is my least favorite. She funded a coup so she gets shipped off as a prisoner to an obsessed creep? That punishment doesn't really seem to fit to me.
1:43:48 I love the Hamlet quote in Delilah's note to Kirin. Very fitting considering she's claiming to be Emily's aunt and seized the throne.
Dropped by to tell you, that I appreciate the dishonored conversations being upheld, for one- and I also appreciate your long-form game criticism. Thank you for your time, effort and hard work, Kaldini
This series will forever be my favorite. Thank you for a great long video on discussing it in very deep detail. I have such admiration for the aspects of D2, that you also give praise to in this video, that any change suggested at first seems like "unnecessary", but you word your suggestions and thoughts very well. Also makes me come to terms with the lesser parts of the game (narrative, pacing).
The level design and aesthetic of this game is so incredible and I really hope Arkane Lyone will return to this series after their Marvel (hopeful) detour. Like I genuinely could just stand there at the fish market where you land in Karnaca for hours.
Finished the video a few hours ago and really liked it, good job
@@leandronicolas1 haha you finished a four hour video that released 2 hours ago?
Regardless, glad you enjoyed it!
@@kaldini that's the joke hahahah really enjoying it so far, got the 100% last year and while a I like the levels and gameplay in general, the flow of the story is a pretty weak point of the game
Watched the whole video over the course of a few days. Can’t imagine how long it took you to piece this all together because the style & substance were impeccable.
I also just have to say it’s criminal that, as of this comment, it doesn’t even have 10,000 views
@@alextomich Thank you for the compliment! Appreciate you checking it out. It took about 5 months to finish!
And despite it not really 10k views yet, it's still my most successful first 7 days of a video ever :) which I'm grateful for
I'm very glad that someone who truly appreciates immersive sims like you is providing valid and useful criticism regarding Dishonored. Your videos are like a window (or a looking glass) to what could have been done better, or maybe will be done better in the future.
I love the effort you put into these videos and the love you have for the worlds Arkane has created. I wish you success going forward 🙏
Last thing, I would personally prefer the next big video to be about Prey. I find it to be one of the most complete and near-flawless games I have ever played. It feels like the developers thought about each and every corner of the world thoroughly, and left no holes that could be exploited.
@@corvoattano7447 thank you for the kind words. I too am looking forward to making the video on Prey 2017, mainly because it'll require me to play through the game several more times.
Have the Death of the Outsider video, I'm currently thinking I'll do a couple "palette cleanser" videos before launching into another big immersive sim project. Similar to what I did between the Dishonored 1 and 2 videos, although this time hopefully it won't be two years between them haha.
loved your first videos, can't wait for this!!
Glad to see you back man! Will need to watch this over a few days but look forward to it
Thanks for checking out the vid. Let me know your thoughts once you've finished.
I really like your content! Giving me serious GMTK-Vibes with its own twist :)
I think the "can't stop the seance" bit would've worked better if we witnessed it in the present. That is, we need to travel to the past to find the code but we enter the study in the present & watch an echo of what happened, unable to change the outcome. Maybe the ritual magic prevents the timepiece from accessing the room in the past (the same way something blocks us from accessing the room in the present in the actual game).
And the narrative explanation for why we can't wait until the seance is complete to kill the conspirators when they come out of the room is again magically handwaved: the timepiece only works while the ritual & the glowing symbols are live so once the conspirators clean it up the magic doesn't work. That could also account for why we can change Stilton's fate since he was the only one who was outside the room when it started.
(Obviously being unable to mess with time at all & saving or killing Stilton not being an option would've worked best but we need the time travel fuckery for some of the puzzles so I think this would've been an acceptable solution. This would also imply that the void leaking is contained to just a specific moment in time that cannot be influenced without the timepiece so it also allows for that plot thread to be ignored as it is in the game.)
Another thing, Empress Emily dissolved the Abbey in the spring of 1853, because after the events of DOTO, the entire existence of the Abbey has no purpose. So either way the Abbey's existence will end entirely, so choosing them has no meaning. Best choice is choosing the Duke's double to rule and killing or eliminating both Paolo and Byrne.
I don't have time to watch this. I also want to finish replaying dishonored 2 before I watch. Regardless, this just made my day ❤
We eating good today!! Thank you, and welcome back
Oh shit we looks like imsims are back on the menu boys!
I needed something to watch tonight
I'm very glad to see the new video by you about the Dishonored series games
I'd be interested in you addressing the changes of the Outsider character between the first game and the second.
I feel like the change of the voice actor and the writing really did a disservice to the character.
I felt like in the first game the whole story was a dialogue between the main character and the Outsider with player's actions as dialogue options. The theme was what would you do if you had a power beyond any mortal - would you get corrupted or would you try to be moral
The first game showed the Outsider as a bored and powerful entity, mostly uninterested in the mortal world but in the second game he teleports around like it's the first time he got his powers and he even has an agenda.
Also, it was strange that you didn't mention that the dreadful whale was named like that because it is a reordering of letters on a phrase "farewell Daud". That comes into play in the DotO expansion, so there's still time
It would be interesting to see an analysis of the original Deus Ex, but that's just a preference (and maybe you already did and I need to rewatch it)
Anyways, was very happy to watch your new video and happy to wait for the new one. No rush, as always - quality comes first, so take your time and stay sane
I mention it at the end, but I decided to save discussing the Outsider for DOTO. It felt more relevant for that discussion. I do agree however, the Outsider went from being one of the most interesting aspects of the the Dishonored series to being one of my least favorite parts of it.
After the DOTO video, I'm planning for the next big project to either be Prey 2017, the two Styx games, or the two modern Deus Ex games. Haven't fully decided yet because I want to just get through the Dishonored series first before committing to another big series haha.
Thanks for watching and giving your thoughts.
@@kaldini Looking forward to it!
@@kaldini I gotta admit, I'm one of the few people who found the tortured teenager Outsider much more compelling than the 'bored cthulhu' edgelord in the first game. In the first game, the Outsider seemingly has no motivation or reason to do what he does, which is really boring. In the next game, he has several personal stakes in the events and therefore a reason to care about what Emily, Corvo and Meagan are up to.
That’s a really long video but a very good one, and I respect the effort put into this one (and in the series in general). I will share my thoughts about it.
First the chaos system, I have nothing to say more than I already said previously. The only thing that I will had is on a psychological standpoint. One of the issues in D1 is that there is the chaos system which is centered around (but not a one to one equivelent to) lethal/non lethal dynamic on spread discrete moments across the game, but the gameplay is also centered around the continuous stealth/combat dynamic, which to some players bother them, because those two dynamics are very orthogonal. With this one, the game better reflect the playstyle of the player, but I don’t know how much deep that stealth/combat axis is being use.
Second the narrative, I think your analysis of the story and the themes and how the game handle them is very spot on. The proposal you gave is sound and show a lot thought has been made into this analysis. The only thing I will comment on is on Delilah. I think her return his (almost) necessary if you maintain the constraint of playing Emily or Corvo. The reason I think that is that you didn’t start the analysis at the correct moment, meaning you need to start from the end (the canonical ending), in which the Outsider either prophesy a future or is living this very future about the reign of Corvo and Emily. Either way, the existence of D2 for those characters imply that this future didn’t happen, and so the Outsider error bring the question of how did that happen. Arkane could have added some mystical elements or a new character from the Void who as outsider like abilities...but then since the story would be centered around Emily and Corvo, why such powerful being would ally with a simple Duke for a coup… ? Bringing Delilah solve those issues and at the same time create the idea that the Outsider may be seen as a god from the simple mortel and that he can see the world from his point view, but the Void himself, even to him is not a place that he own. Regarding her non-lethal route, in the DLC Daud imprisoned her in the Void, but her spirit remained, and it was strong enough for her to escape. In this one, not only is she trapped in the Void again, making her separate from the world of the Isles, but it is also and foremost a prison of her mind, made by her, confine in the Void that she has mold for herself. And so She wanted the world to bow in front of her, to transpose her worldview of what a perfect world is without compromises onto others, to be the center stage of the world, and she will forever think she succeeded, she will forever think she is the center stage of the world, forever trapped in her own perfection. It certainly feet your requirement of poetic justice.
And for the crack in the slab section, it is not just a time travel thing, it is a synchronisation from time period since the time piece allows to see from the other time bits and the time keeps flowing in both periods simultaneously and synchronously, this is not just a simple back and forth, and as such having a fixed point in time that connect both period and cannot be interact with in a way the game present it, was not particularly shocking to me. The only thing is then that I think Aramis should not have been “saveable” from this section, and instead I would have prefer something of finding some object in the past and what not that when brought to Aramis in the present allow himself to regain clarity (to a certain degree).
Now for the limits of this video. One is on the Dreadful Wale. The other is about the idea of the need to expand the consequences of choices beyond what is there.
For the boat level, I agree that the little side quest here should have been remove, that some characters could have stay longer, or some could have been added beyond Hypatia, Sokolov, Megan and Aramis (two of them even are missable). But at the end, the Hound Pits and the Dreadful Wale doesn’t belong in the same story, and it is quite normal than they do not have the same purpose, and regarding the Dreadful Wale it is normal than it cannot have the same purpose, and so cannot have the full equivalent features of the Hound Pits. Arkane needed a Hub for the briefing mission because if it was not the case, it would mean that between levels the player will be in new areas that would not have been properly introduce (creating some dissociation between what the player knows and what the avatar of the player knows). Here they properly introduce the Dreadful Wale in the first level, the dreadful Wale has a little boat that can bring Emily or Corvo and the player to the mission location, all information has been communicated properly to the player and to the avatar synchronously and it will remain that way across the game. Beside the dreadful Wale can act as a way to give an understanding of Karnaca since the boat stay far enough from the land, and it is a breather that help the player decide when he thinks it is time to go (it can be quite quick like 40 seconds, doesn’t matter). Also it is a way to maintain the engagement of the player since they have the control of when the mission start.
Now to even go further, at some point you argue that it is a miss opportunity because having new characters and the others staying longer could have help support the theme that Emily is a poor leader and so forth. That I disagree. Right now I can play the game and be in « I am going to play as the perfect assassin that only kill the target and take back my throne » and doing this roleplay I will not be concerned about NPCs and all, yet in the final mission in Karnaca, I will be in low chaos and the dialogue with Megan about Emily understanding that she hasn’t been up to her duty will happen, and yet I, the player, under this roleplay, didn’t do anything to demonstrate to the game that I understand myself the theme and how I want to react to it. And this is not a flaw of the narrative, it is a flawed that is routed to the expressions (gameplay that has meaning for the player) the game offers to the players. Between stealth/combat or non-lethal/lethal there is nothing that is centered around NPCs and therefore the player cannot express anything regarding the narrative of the game, the only option is to let it play as the developer wants it. Your proposal will only add more « press f to talk to » dynamic and Emily or Corvo would be the one doing the conversations. It will not allow the player to assert something or showing that he understand the theme and all. You may say they can do branching dialogue options as they already dead, as others games does like RDR2, GTA IV, GTA V, Detroit Become Human and many many more….To me it will decrease the elegance of the game, and it will put the choices so much on the nose that it will decrease the weight of those compared to the ones that is more elegantly integrated into the game (even if there are not as consequential and sometimes not that logical). If you wanted the themes to be more substantial, you need other elements of gameplay for that (It is the continuity of the argument I made in the first Dishonored video when I brought Frostpunk into play), and it will be fair that I also come with proposal of my own so you can judge.
-->Here is how I see it. For example D2 could have used an inventory system Prey-like when you can grab items as much as you can store items from your personal inventory into the different elements of the world, crate, vault….. There are some scripted events like the one near the wall of lights in the beginning of Karnaca, when the duke guards ask money to a shopkeeper that doesn't have the money, the shopkeeper try as much as he can to delay the guards but they reach the vault, see that there is nothing and kill the shopkeeper or destroy some of its goods… the player could have understand that the shopkeeper was buying time and they could put some money (the money they could use to upgrade themselves) in the vault before the guards comes in. Then the game detect that the player has put the minimum of money required and another script plays out, the guards threaten the shopkeeper that next time he better not waste his time and give the money right away, and leaves. The devs could have prepare some additional dialogue with the NPC if the player want to talk to the NPCs afterwards and let himself noticed. Or has already mentioned a healing system that has an area of effect, and so the player could heal some ill NPCs along is way if they wanted to. These interactions can easily (on a technical standpoint) been implemented and cannot been done my mistake, they need to be thought by the player, and in such case, the mentioned dialogue above with Megan in the last mission of Karnaca can be earned, not just display out of nowhere. In the current state of the game, this dialogue comes out of nowhere but it only appear here, the dissociation is very localised and put to a minimum but with your suggestions I am afraid that those sort of dissociation will appear more and more, because again for me it is not the amount of NPCs that will correct this issue, the issue is a consequence of the verbs that the game gives to the players.
Speaking of choices, let speak of the consequences of the choices. I argue that it is not necessary to have choices that have huge implications to have choices that is meaningful to the player. Having small but impactful and well implemented arrangements (an other word for consequence that is more appropriate I would say) can be more important than huge impersonal consequences. I will bring the comment under this video that you highlight about the overseer in the last mission and how that interaction plays differently if the players refuse the mark of the Outsider. There is nothing technically complicated to implemented the consequence from the choice the player made in the beginning. It is just two dialogues connected to a variable that the player determine when the player make the choice. And yet, in this long video essay, this guy of everything the game has to offer, of everything your video tackle, this is what he spontaneously wanted to leave as a comment, the moment he was able to offer some relief of peace to that overseer because he was doing a run with no powers. And so as much as I love your proposal for consequences, I cannot know if those consequences could be felt as personal as the one mentioned above. And so is an issue for games that have choices, a lot of them failed to feel personal. And this is the strength of Prey because Prey is as flawed as D2 is. They didn’t technically improve on anything, they just have themes and story that does a better use of the imsim structures of System Shock 2 and Arx Fatalis (a structure already quite well formed since the early 2000s), basically a better use of the language that permits such structures of games. Prey is a game centered around the NPCs and how the player will define themselves in relation to those NPCs, most of the side mission in this game is about helping the NPCs find closure. There is no hyper complicated political theme and all, just who, the player, want to become, want to treat the other remaining survivors, small but impactful personal arrangements. But at no point from System Shock to Prey have those games proposed radical consequences, there are only arrangements, and maybe this is a limit of the structure of those games, and It is more visible from some than others.
Anyhow, this is a very huge and well made video, andI will be interesting to see what you gonna say about DotO, Prey, Prey Mooncrash and Deathloop (which contrary to some and despite of it weakness is a game of maturity that I very much like).
finally. been waiting on this
oh yeah baby, let's let the next 4 hours shape my entire world view
Gentelmen!
I think we all forgot the greatest line in this masterpiece:
ANTON SOKOLOW MADE THIS LOCK
I remember getting the preorder cloth reversible mask for this one. Playing on console around launch sucked for me since I was still a serial reloader when getting spotted. I enjoyed it, and I'm glad to see the narrative get a closer examination. Sorry for the rambling, just wanted to get some thoughts out and help the algorithm push the video.
If you kill the duke and his doppelgänger and rescue corvo, he will become ruler of canaca
I was waiting on this!
I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again; the sequels shouldn’t have been direct. Just let it take place in the universe. Don’t even need to call it Dishonored. Bust out the thesaurus and pick something similar.
2:48:50 The obvious answer is that time travel (very likely) can't exist in real worlв on the macroscopic scale with either matter or information, and therefore as something deeply unscientific (largely borne of our trouble comprehending time) can work in whatever way the fantasy writer wants and they don't have to tell us how it works (unless a lot of visible contradictions are happening).
Firstly, it bears mentioning, that the concept of "butterfly effect" might simply not exist in Dishonored universe as a fact.
Secondly, we can only determine how magic works in this universe by observing what it does. What happens in these games is what _can_ happen. It's a mystical occultic universe and the magic of the Void is not a well understood phenomenon. Even what people like Granny Rags or Delilah can do is merely scratching the surface for all we know.
Position #1: You can't stop or undo the seance itself. From what you can gather the seance is an anchor for this time travel situation happening. The fact, that other members of seance don't walk around the mansion and can't be interacted could mean plenty of things. My biggest guess is mansion is a place where connection between time and space, cause and effect, waking world and the Void is broken somehow. The seance is the damage, it is the proverbial crack. We are lucky, that our protagonist can change anything at all and not get spliced across spacevoidtime or something.
Position #2: you can interact with Stilton outside the seance. Him being missing from the seance doesn't change its outcome. Why? Maybe he is not that necessary to the ritual, maybe the Void interacted with him funny, maybe he is tied to this place in a way nobody else isn't. Maybe it's one of the ways reality uses your intrusion to give you an option to resolve the damage done by Delilah's ritual. But at the end of a day - we don't know.
In Bioshock Infinite terms (and I loathe to use it as a positive example) the Delilah's reappearance from the Void and binding to an effigy is a 'constant', the coup is a 'constant', general time/place of you meeting other conspirators are 'constants', while Aramis Stilton's fate is a 'variable'.
Constant and variables is a rule of time travel just as good as Butterfly Effect time travel or Novikov's self-consistency principle or Back to the Future's "fading" and travelling between different timelines without losing your alternative memories or clothes. Or just as bad, there is no single correct way to do time travel. Plenty of the closed stable time loop stories ignore both butterfly effect and entropy completely, which are inviolable in our world, as far we know. The same piece of paper travel through time in a loop indefinitely. A guy is his own grandparent. You name it. Butterfly effect in time travel stories is an element. Not the element.
The fact that time travel is not explained, I think is a boon and works in game's advantage, adding to the world's mystique. You never see the games outright state the connection between the void and time, but you are constantly shown it. In stills from the Void, in sounds catching up to you as you Blink, in time stop ability and other things. And Void isn't just connected to time, it is connected to dreams. And whales. And magic.
I honestly think that Death of Outsider did a disservice to Dishonored, revealing too much too fast.
This video is my GTA VI
Fantastic analysis from beginning to end, I would have loved to see what direction the narrative could have taken if they had explored the whole "It's a privilege to rule" and committed to the Crown Killer and The Duke as the main villains.
What I was looking forward to when the D2 got announced was them expanding on the relationship between Corvo and Emily but that was largely non existent, the bulk of their interactions being relegated to only the tutorials, intro and ending. I think there was a lot of potential if both of them were present throughout the game with Corvo commenting on Emily's decisions as he has seen the consequences of decisions made by those in power from the first game.
I really enjoy your videos
It would be much more interesting if Delilah was a protagonist for the DLC for Dishonored 2 instead of boring Billie Lurk! There is so much backstory surrounding Delilah that could have been told from her perspective. Stories like how she founded the coven in the 1835, how her and Breanna met, how Delilah and Luca met, story of Brigmore Witches from Delilah's perspective, or Delilah's time in Karnaca from her perspective, Dishonored 2's story from Delilah's perspective etc. As you can see, all these stories that I have presented would be way more interesting to explore than what we got with DOTO.
@@bilbobaggins2807 ehh, personally I disagree. I think the story of DOTO we got but with some adjustments to better fit the themes present as well as more (and better) characterization of Daud could've actually been a good story. I'll explain more of this in that eventual video.
Delilah is only interesting in my opinion when she's a foil to Daud, given their similarities. I think a whole DLC based around her, especially as she's portrayed in D2 would've been a nightmare.
I would love to watch this but I didn't play it yet. I saved the video on my playlist to remember to watch one day.
Id def be most interested in prey.. it’s probably my favorite arkane game and I think arkane is quite possibly the most under rated game studio in existence .. dishonored. D2, doto, prey, deathloop.. all these games r absolutely fantastic, and I consider all of them to be amongst my favorite games ever … I haven’t played redfall that’s why r I’m leaving it out, not just because of the bad rap it has, but I haven’t personally played it to comment on it because I don’t own a pc or an Xbox
Don't forget their earlier works like Dark Messiah of Might and Magic, also a great game
Damn talk about crazy timing. Just finished the video on the first game yesterday
this is my whiskey and cigars
Despite having more powers and more away to approach targets
I still like dishonored 1 better.
I like D2 more than D1 because of all the improvement they made in term of graphic and gameplay. The only thing D2 didn't match is the world setting which is understandable because it happened after the plague was over.
Interestingly, I didn't care much about Crown killer nor its reveal. Delilah was always a bigger fish.
Honestly, I love the idea of Delilah being the bastard queen. We saw in the DLC and the sequel how charismatic she was and she did love her coven once. She deeply understood the struggle of the working class and had beef with the royals. She was selfish and driven. If they really played the political aspects of the story properly then Delilah would have had a stronger base of power and Emily would have been forced to see how inept she AND her mother was (i still believe her mom wasn't a good ruler, caring yes, but not good)
Personally, I'd love to see your thoughts on the modern Deus Ex games. They both have ups and downs, but they each do some things that feel very special.
*Dishonored video detected.*
*Uploading Should_we_gather_for_whiskey_and_cigars_tonight.exe*
love ur video. i also hated the plot being worse version of dishonored 1 expansion. i feel that changing of voice actor for outsider hurt him the most in the game
Honestly I was so put off by the decision to bring Delilah back that I didn't buy the game until this year. When it was six bucks and change Canadian. Bundled with Prey. And the first DIshonored is maybe my favourite game of all time.
Next video, Prey 2017?
Oh my God it's here
The biggest shame in the Dishonored series for me is that it has all the critiria to be an excellent stealth game:thoughtfull and great level design, stunning enviroments, creative tools and powers. Unfortunately due to a combination of bad A.I and game inbalance that makes the player just too strong, iťs hard to meaningfully engage with the stealth system because even if you break out of it they are no meaningfull consecuences and you can get away scot free. I hope that if there is a dishonored 3 in the works it will provide a bit more neance and complexity in the stealth system, because i feel that Arkane Studios was pretty close into creating something truly special
Great video by the way even if i dont agree with some things, the best games are the ones worth arguing for
I found Dishonored: Death of the Outsider and the accompanying novel Dishonored: Return of Daud amusing as they seem to backtrack and improve on many narrative aspects from the first two games. Even narratively, DOTO pretty much admits that the Abbey is a cancerous organization, that Delilah was a nonsensical character that was poorly written in the sequel, that Daud did what he had to do and IS the greatest character in this series and that ultimately, the Outsider himself was so complex that they've re-written him from this Ctuluhuesque antagonist to a sympathetic, tortured hero of sorts. Two studios working on these games are incongruent with their supposedly shared vision. The Chaos system must have been a pain in the ass to develop as it caused a huge point of contention for many players.
And then we got Deathloop low-low claiming to be an actual spin-off in the Dishonored universe which was an insane call from Arkane Lyon. All that culminated in proving why immersive stealth-action sims are a difficult genre to develop and are ultimately, sunk cost fallacies for many studios because few people have the patience to acquire such tastes and development teams ultimately relying on this "lightning in a bottle" effect that the first Dishonored game had, but the second failed to maintain. This also affected Prey, which was a far more cohesive game than Dishonored 2 or Deathloop ever were.
Omg after two years omggggg yesssssssssssssss
@@oraxge hopefully it's worth the wait!
@@kaldini it was defo worth it !
love your stuff and the video so far but the link for the game maker's toolkit video you recommend at 1:42:28 isnt in the description or the pinned comment
Thanks for the reminder! Should be in the description now!
DELILAH IS TELLING THE TRUTH!!!!!
The Heart (Jessamine) CONFIRMS EVERYTHING SHE SAID (to Emily)!!!! Here are four important lines from Jessamine (the Heart). 1. "I knew her, as a child. We played together at Dunwall Tower. She was a kitchen girl and I... I was..." 2. "Many times, her father (Emperor Euhorn) told her that she was a princess, and PROMISED THAT ONE DAY SHE WOULD BE A QUEEN (EMPRESS)". 3. "They were never fair to her. No kindness was ever shown. They whipped her. Sent her in the streets." 4. "She watched her mother sicken and die in the debtor's prison. She will never forget. Never forgive." Also one additional quote: "Forgive me, Delilah. I should have tried to find you." All this was confirmed by Harvey Smith himself, who I sometimes talk to. Also, Delilah's whole story and motivation would not make sense if she was lying. It is also really stupid that Emily puts doubt to the player whether Delilah is telling the truth, because she herself addresses Delilah as her aunt every time she speaks of her.
@@bilbobaggins2807 do you have a link to Harvey confirming this?
I ask because each of those hearts give just enough wiggle room (in my opinion) to be interpreted either way. We know that Jessamine was a caring woman and so it's not unreasonable for her to feel guilt that she got her childhood friend kicked out and put into a bad position.
Additionally, as I say in the video, whether she's telling the truth or not ends up not mattering because nothing comes of it. It just ends up not being interesting.
If you mix up the letters in DREADFUL WALE you can get FAREWELL DAUD.
Wail and whale are spelled differently so it’s done on purpose since she was second in command
Dishonored is back
Do yourself a favor and put this on 1.25x speed at least :D
I agree about the non lethals reflecting the crime/poetic justice standpoint with the exception of lady Boyle in the first game. That one is pretty yucky
Great anaysis.A review of the modern Deus Ex games would be great. I love me some immersive sims.
Good vid so far.
Bro watched it on x1000
@Cink1973 "So Far"
3:20:54 I don’t remember ever saving this guy but he was there on my play through
LET'S GOOOOO
It's kinda sad that the people who made D1 and D2 left the studio...so if D3 ever gets greenlighted...yeah, it's gonna be rough.
i love dishonored 2 its amazing in my opinion
Dishonored content in 2025 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
OH YEAH OH YEAH ITS FINALLY TIME
The best one. I just skip cutscenes everytime I go back.
Should have named it a "brief" retrospective kr something along those lines
More like Kaldwini amirite folks
Or Kaldwinnie perhaps?
Haven't finished the video yet, but since you mentioned:
Clockwork mansion made me quit. I only came back and finished the game until 2 years late, with trainer to basically skip this level. (was already a Dishonored fan)
There's no way they put this so ealry in game.
I know I shouldn't be expecting ghost and no kills in my first playthrough. But it really was that frustrating to have so many mechanics in one single level. I'd rather they spread each challange evenly in future levels.
I suppose it's something you could only admire and enjoy when you already played the game, not for beginners.
Totally understandable but I'll add that I found it incredibly engaging and enjoyable on my first playthrough.
It's a level that I'm hearing more people than I expected don't like. If you don't mind me asking, what's your favorite level in the game?
@@kaldini Finally finished the video, sorry took me 2 nights. I think my favorite is the duke overall. Mechanically wise I think Stilton's.
After finishing your video I do feel like I actually missed a lot in the game. I can't imagine this but 12 years later I still suck at dishonored comabt so basically every playthrough is ghost and no kill. I just feel combats are not that worth it and pretty scary? sometimes. I hope they'd done better on this, like you said more rewarding on choices so there's actual big changes how you play the game.
So yeah, I do think that, at least for me, if this isn't a real time stealth/ all out combat game some mechanics could be explored better.
And I totally agree your take on the plot. The main plot should be more... secular? I mean back in 1, the main plot is political and daud dlc is magical. But this time it's just 2 magical plots.
I mean, for Hiram, it's possible that his allies got taken down one by one but he didn't know how to respond properly.
But Delilah? You could talk to her in her dreams, with her statue, and she saw you in the past, and there's no actual repsonses until the last level? I mean her reign wasn't that steady, with overseers attacking her. But there's no way she wouldn't do anything to stop Emily.
I think this is another point that Delilah shouldn't be the main villain in the game, let alone "It's proper to make her another DLC villain", someone so smart and powerful didn't actually do much to stop her demise. Too silly.
I wished there were a level like returning to the pub in 1. Like the dread whale was constantly being hunted and this time they got hit and boarded/ had to wait for fixing and you need to stop the search team.
Duke is not a royal title. -I'd hazard a guess that rulers of Tyvia and Morley don't have higher titles.- No, I'm wrong. Morley is ruled by king and queen and Tyvia ia ruled by... High Judges? According to wiki, that is.
That makes exactly two royal families - Caldwin and whatever is king Briam's surname.
Emily still needs to secure an heir, though, so marriage proposals are a given. 🤔
I despise the clockwork mansion. I wish that mission could be skipped. I’ve never been able to understand it
Why is everyone talking about Dishonored suddently?
@@221B-o4e To be fair, I started talking about the series two years ago with my original critique and am circling back to finish the series.
I'm glad the series is getting more attention though.
First time viewer . Here for the engagement
I just want a fov slider 😒
The fact the display setting has a whole menu but has 1 option BRIGHTNESS enrages me.
But i cant play dishonored for longer than an hr without headaches & eye strain.
1:33:38 -wow that guy sounds like Pedro pascal, wait -what?!
Styx! Styx! Styx! Styx!
Hell yes
Erm what the sigma?
1.25x
Story, tone, characters, and lore building are much worse here. All moral ambiguity is out the window, and every character who's done "bad things" is "trying to atone for their sins"... every single one of them. Sometimes I wonder whether they killed off Piero because he was shown as a pervert and they couldn't find a way to clean him up convincingly, given that Sokolov was twisted into a sensitive artist from the first game, where he was a machiavellian and opportunistic genius.
The main villain is a cardboard cutout, with demented motivations and an even more demented plan that has no chance to work out, it only does because the writer needs it to. And even the way you defeat her is complete, absolute nonsense, particularly the pacifist solution.
None of the main characters are allowed to be anything other than morally upright, or unjustly manipulated into doing evil. The game takes a propagandistic slant, with a very explicit narrative on "power", one that falls short if you use more than two neurons at once when you think about the implications of this whole world. This game also has one of the first implementation of DEI _within the game world_ to the point that even if you're in the equivalent of Morocco, you have equal representation of white, brown, asian and black people, just like in the capital. They also appear to do the same exact things as in the capital, save a few exceptions, so you can't really feel the cultural diversity of Serkonos: it's just like Gristol but warmer. Billie is an interesting character that is weighted by the writer's maniacal pursuit of synthetizing the ultimate intersectional character: a black disabled and economically disadvantaged bisexual woman... someone needs to explain to me how someone with so many physical disabilities, and without powers, can handle a 15m multi-story steel cargo boat all by herself, but I digress.
In gameplay terms it's so much more fun than the first game, although the AI is unquestionably worse. The behavior of the guards was quite predictable in the first game, at all difficulties, it was pretty clear when you could be seen and when you would not be seen. In D2 sometimes they can't see you when you're straight in front of them, sometimes they can see you from 30m of distance, sometimes staying in a balcony is safe, sometimes they seem to see a few strands of hair poking out of the handrails. At the highest difficulty this game is excedingly frustrating, and is only saved by the incalculable variety of the game maps.
The first game didn't really have a writer, it was written by the game director. It shows, in certain sections, but the lore and the main plot points were incredibly strong. This game had a narrative designer and several writers. Somehow they did a worse job in all aspects, even though the technically respect all the "rules" of storytelling. But a badly told good story will always beat a well written but awfully uninteresting one.
Largely agreed until you started ranting about DEI
@@kaldini While I don't think it's a cardinal sin, you still kind of have to question the concessions that were made in immersion and believability for... what exactly?
@@kaldinihe's right tho
@@kaldini you had a knee jerk reaction, because I wasn't "ranting about DEI", or at least it's an oversemplification.
-What is the single most defining characteristic of Serkonos over Gristol, other than the blood flies, the northern african climate, and the color yellow? What makes it a different country?
-Why does Serkonos have the same exact population densities as Gristol? What is the overall culture of Serkonos, and how does it differ from that of Gristol?
-Why is Billie Lurk one-armed? What purposed does it serve to the story? How is it justified in-game that she can do all the things she does, given that you effectively never see her doing anything (because they probably couldn't think of it themselves)? Why an arm, and not a leg, which would have been more character-appropriate? Why did they coalesce so many minority characteristics into a single characters just to leave all the other with one or no minority characteristics? To my knowledge, there is one trans character, but they gave her a female voice actor and it is never stated anywhere that she is, they just said it. What for?
In both cases, I find it kind of offensive towards the people they meant to represent. A disabled person isn't going to feel represented by a woman without an arm, and possibly other issues, who seems to command an entire steel boat and carry an entire smuggled cargo operation by herself with no explanation as to how she's even able to do that, and the trans character is frankly just a token character.
YES dude I’ve watched all of your vids within a week 🧍♂️and I’ve been waiting for this - your vids are amazing!
I finished Dishonored 2 yesterday. And I’m having withdrawal symptoms. First game that has done this to me….
I just loved killing enemies so much in this game….. I was a murdering death bringer…….
There is something so visceral about the way you kill enemies in this game…….. the sword….. the gun….. executions….. the enemy bodies feel meaty… chopping them into pieces… jamming your swords through their necks….
It felt somehow real. Hahahahaha I loved it.
I liked sneaking up and murdering…. Wind blasting enemies into walls…
Razor mines on the ground slicing people up into pieces…
Sleep darts… watching them pass out helpless then going up to them to kill them hahahahahaha
i loved this game. It’s not perfect…. But i love this game. Giving it a solid 8.7/10.
Elon Musk is your daddy now
If that were indeed true what does that mean he is to you i wonder...
My very best friend *wipes tear from eye*
Seriously tho, was enjoying the video until your politics came through.
@@skeetsofrage9517 having an opinion on Elon Musk is political?
@@kaldini There is so much more you could rally against him for, saying he isn't a genius is just false and shows your biases
@@skeetsofrage9517 I also made a joke about Taylor Swift in the video? Did that indicate a bias as well?
My point man: perhaps stop trying to find something to get offended about. It's a video about a game and I made a joke. It's not that deep.