Today's (yet again belated) thought experiment: if you had to have an alien entity try to convince you to enter its matrix, who would you want it to pretend to be? No, matrix is not a euphemism. Keep it clean. Ish.
3:10 "Third time around Chakotay is getting fed up with it, meaning this is the first time I feel real kindship with the character" - DAMN, this episode is going to need some cream to treat that burn.
Thank you again for what you’re doing with these videos. I’ve been in the midst of a deep depression for the first time in my 48 year life - and one of the few things that give me any real joy right now and actually look forward to is the notification of a new video being available :)
I'm sorry you're struggling right now, and I suspect many of us here know how that feels. It's good that these are helping, but there's no weakness in seeking help. You wouldn't try to ignore your way out of a broken leg, and we call it mental *healthcare* for a reason.
@Unlimited_Lives I absolutely would put off treating a broken bone because I can't afford $150 just to have someone look at me. That's not including the cost of treatments. Your videos are much more affordable so I'll stay here, thank you. 😅😅😅😅 Your patrion min is less than $10 a month. I can watch you for YEARS for the same price as having a doctor go "ugh. We all have pain/are sad every now and again. Stop making excuses to not go to work." Then having to repeat the $150 cost of being seen until I'm taken seriously and diagnosed with something that permanently effects my quality of life and therefore is why I had whatever problem I came in for several months prior but kept getting told I was just one of those young people that doesn't want to work when I'm working 40+ hours a week. Had it happen before, don't doubt it'll happen again. 😅😅😅😅 I'm not throwing my money at them anymore. 😅😅😅
@@mb2000 I read a little about the shuttle type errors that pop up in the early seasons, but didn't know that whole shot was nicked. I guess they figured nobody would remember something so boring.
@@Unlimited_Lives Well, they underestimated the nerdy nitpickiness of Trekkies! I could go into a whole thing about why they bothered making the Type-8 for VOY when it’s very similar to the Type-6 that they also have the full size mock-up for from TNG, but I won’t…
@Unlimited Lives TBH, it's a quick shot, and we're really not supposed to pay that much attention to it. It's like how they tend to recycle matte paintings for several of the establishment shots.
@@joelellis7035 I think that's the thing; if the episode had been good, who cares if they recycled a shot or two. Because the episode does so little to keep our interest, mildly interesting errors or production shortcuts are more noticeable. And god this story is both dull and pretty incoherent.
Well damn, I just spent the whole day watching/listening through this review series from the start, helped me get through some pretty tedious work I've been doing. I don't remember which review you mentioned it in, but that stuff about the doctor being neurodivergent also made it click with me as well, since I always had a similar connection to the character that I couldn't fully explain. So, thanks for that :D And thanks for the series as a whole. Side note, it'll be hard now to watch a voyager episode now without thinking of "pooping" whenever phasers are used. (Also, a special thanks for ripping HARD into Janeway for what she did in Tuvix. I'm with you on that.)
Glad to be of use, especially in combatting monotony. Regarding the Doc: that would be Lifesigns, where he meets Danara. I've had few genuine epiphany moments in my life, but realising that about the doctor was one, and it's been most gratifying to see how many others have had the same reaction when it's pointed out.
This one terrified me as a child, as I mis-understood it a bit, and thought those creatures praying on you was a normal part of death, and so every single person who dies in Trek gets eaten by those things after death!
Now *that* would be an interesting concept. How large is this thing's hunting grounds? Is it confined to a certain sector? Does it roam and snatch up crews at the point of death everywhere? Is that the light at the end of the tunnel we see? Are there any beliefs that make you more palatable to it?
The script writers must have read my mind when writing the Chakotay scipt. I'm a nurse, and "Breath, dam it! Don't die on me!" is EXACTLY what I say every time I do CPR. I also give up after about 30 seconds as well. 6:06 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I stand corrected. Hospital emergency departments must be terribly shouty... Maybe that's why you give up after 30 seconds: so you don't damage your vocal cords.
@@Unlimited_Lives It's an *essential* part of our E-Learning. We're always too busy shouting to do anything. It's usually "STAT!" or "SHE'S NOT GOING TO MAKE IT, DOCTOR!" Until Charlie from Casualty comes in and takes control. In reality, we're a bit more like The Doctor in Voyager and sarcastic all the time.
@@BintyMcFrazzles The sarcasm among medical professionals (that somewhat often have to deal with _some_ kind of loss, so not so much plastic surgeons or so...) seems to be a global thing... I'd wager it's one of (mental) survival strategies that actually work.
Yeh this is basically Janeway imagining everyone talking about how awesome she is. I don’t think this shuttle mission with just the captain and first officer is an actual mission. It’s another of those Native American ritual things that Chakotay randomly needs a shuttle for, but he made this one up to get Janeway alone on a shuttle… Janeway should have instantly known her dad wasn’t her dad… he’s been dead 15 years but wears a commbadge introduced only 3 years ago. His uniform is unique too, he really should be in one of those TNG season 1 ones. Nice that we get a rare named shuttle here; Sacajawea, after only getting Cochrane, Drake and Tereshkova before now, although I don’t think the last one was in dialogue.
I noticed the badge while I was watching so looked it up after. As you say, that admiral uniform was never used on screen prior to this so it doesn't technically have a date attached to it. Some sites have listed it as being a 2350s variant, but that's purely based on this episode and there's no corroborating evidence for it. The only thing suggestive is the rank pip placement, but TNG dress uniform has them in the same place rather than the collar. You could argue then that it's a 2370s variant (as it's similar to one made but then not used in Generations, which is 2370) and the badge would then be contemporary. I do agree an older style uniform and badge would have been preferable though. Gods, but I spent too much time checking that.
Series creator Jeri Taylor wrote the episode and meant it as a love letter to Kathyrn Janeway. It's one of the few season 3 episodes I always skip because, well, you told us why ;-)
Thing is, I *want* a Janeway episode. It's bizarre we've not had something exploring her. Sacred Ground is the closest we've come I guess, and that was an interesting look at her mind, but it's so odd that there hasn't been more for the lead character. This... was not it.
What I took the “time looping” here was the alien trying to find a believable death that Janeway would accept. Kind of like prodding her mind for an opening
It's a pity, because other sci-fi shows have done great "Ground Hog's Day" episodes; TNG did a great serious version where the crew slowly learn that they are stuck in a loop and eventually break it; they also managed to make the looped scenes not get stale by changing how each variation was filmed, and had the coulmbo style investigation grow each loop. And SG1 used their loop story to be absolutely hilarious, including a reveal about what happens to one of the characters on each loop reset. I've heard it said "I don't care who did it first, it matters what you do with it" and sadly voyager nearly always takes sci-fi tropes and just repeats them with no new interests or twists. The potential wasted by this show will never stop bugging me. If it was pure shit, you could at least just ignore it and accept that it never would have been good, but those glimpses of the quality that could have been are eternal signs of the waste.
i always related to chakotay, ignored, lots going on in his head, but well hidden and only ever asked a question when you are sure theyll agree, opts out when they finally get fed up of other peoples games. also clearly in love with someone who plays with thier affections
I always felt like this episode was trying to rely on the success of TNG's Cause and Effect. However they also wanted it not to be the same so no one could call them out on reusing the concept. Rather than time resets, they should've established a particular inserted memory from the start like the girl on the cliff in Tuvok's memory episode. Then they should've had Kess's mind powers be part of Janeway fighting against Alien Dad's afterlife speech. The fact they included Kess at all and then it came to nothing means they were just trying to fool the audience into thinking it was real despite the fact that nothing Janeway did mattered and it was all the Doctor. If they really needed to pad the runtime, this would've been the perfect time for Janeway to confront having let her father and fiance die 15 years ago. And any excuse about not wanting to explore backstories is pointless because they made an entire episode about a tattoo's back story.
Thank you for not posting today's thought experiment, as it would surly be - as a snobbish meta commentary - a time loop of its own and we would have to answer it over and over and over again.
Kim should have reminisced about that time he and Jane-away smoked a doobie, oh well. Jane-away then revels in that one spring break with buff Tad from her academy days and how his ripped arms holding her firmly as they gazed at an extraterrestrial sunsets then making sweet love on an alien beach til an alien morning. Sweet memories.
Hm, I may have got the wrong end of the stick but I think the loops of her dying was the alien's attempt to trick her into accepting it, cos "Hey, it's a loop, it won't matter!" as the alien needs her to walk into the light and "get another chance."
This episode is a shining example why another opinionated Voyager episode guide uses the catchphrases "Voyager is where potential goes to die" and "Welcome to the idiocy that is Voyager."
Voyager is at times a really tough watch. It had some great episodes, but was so inconsistent, even with its own rules and established characters. That said there are some gems in the mix.
Given that it was run by people who didn't even know how to count to 38, and didn't understand that an ensign is supposed to make lieutenant... no surprises.
Say what you want about the captain, but in this one she looks death right in the eye and tells him to go back to hell without her... and he obeys. Because Kathryn Janeway is the Chuck 🤬-ing Norris of Star Trek.
It's a shame, I do like the antagonist but there's so much in the way to get to that final confrontation that just feels like going through the motions... There's a good episode in this somewhere with a few more passes but television just needs to pump out to get to the next shoot, shame really.
**Possible spoiler statement** Do we EVER get a Janeway backstory episode, good or otherwise? I don't think we do. Other than a couple references to her earlier days or missions, I don't think we ever have much of a discussion as to where Janeway really came from.
Today's (yet again belated) thought experiment: if you had to have an alien entity try to convince you to enter its matrix, who would you want it to pretend to be? No, matrix is not a euphemism. Keep it clean. Ish.
Seven of Nine wants me to do what?
That cute little waitress at the bar I frequent.
Just tell me it's a doughnut shop.
I'm fairly certain that I would follow Jonathan Majors anywhere, no questions ask.
A decent sleep.
3:10 "Third time around Chakotay is getting fed up with it, meaning this is the first time I feel real kindship with the character" - DAMN, this episode is going to need some cream to treat that burn.
Thank you again for what you’re doing with these videos. I’ve been in the midst of a deep depression for the first time in my 48 year life - and one of the few things that give me any real joy right now and actually look forward to is the notification of a new video being available :)
I know the feeling. Hang in there, Ok?
I'm sorry you're struggling right now, and I suspect many of us here know how that feels. It's good that these are helping, but there's no weakness in seeking help. You wouldn't try to ignore your way out of a broken leg, and we call it mental *healthcare* for a reason.
Mystery Science Theater 3000 helps too, imho. Hang in there friend 🫂
Yeah, know what you mean!
I do get down too and what he has done here is uplifting.
Hope you are feeling better.
@Unlimited_Lives I absolutely would put off treating a broken bone because I can't afford $150 just to have someone look at me. That's not including the cost of treatments.
Your videos are much more affordable so I'll stay here, thank you. 😅😅😅😅 Your patrion min is less than $10 a month. I can watch you for YEARS for the same price as having a doctor go "ugh. We all have pain/are sad every now and again. Stop making excuses to not go to work." Then having to repeat the $150 cost of being seen until I'm taken seriously and diagnosed with something that permanently effects my quality of life and therefore is why I had whatever problem I came in for several months prior but kept getting told I was just one of those young people that doesn't want to work when I'm working 40+ hours a week.
Had it happen before, don't doubt it'll happen again. 😅😅😅😅 I'm not throwing my money at them anymore. 😅😅😅
'Congrats Captain Chakotay' improved my otherwise miserable day. Thank you for that.
Glad I could help!
That made me chuckle too, the limp sound effect sold it 😂
I really enjoy the concept of the death entity parasite thing...a shame we didn't get something more profound with everything else.
Decent enough concept, aye.
Chakotay is off to adjust the captain’s chair. Lol. I did wonder where he was off to in such a rush.
Right lol
The shuttle crash visual was actually recycled from a TNG episode. That's how exciting it was.
And the shuttle changed between Type-6 and Type-8!
@@mb2000 I read a little about the shuttle type errors that pop up in the early seasons, but didn't know that whole shot was nicked. I guess they figured nobody would remember something so boring.
@@Unlimited_Lives Well, they underestimated the nerdy nitpickiness of Trekkies! I could go into a whole thing about why they bothered making the Type-8 for VOY when it’s very similar to the Type-6 that they also have the full size mock-up for from TNG, but I won’t…
@Unlimited Lives TBH, it's a quick shot, and we're really not supposed to pay that much attention to it. It's like how they tend to recycle matte paintings for several of the establishment shots.
@@joelellis7035 I think that's the thing; if the episode had been good, who cares if they recycled a shot or two. Because the episode does so little to keep our interest, mildly interesting errors or production shortcuts are more noticeable. And god this story is both dull and pretty incoherent.
"...Janeway suggests pooping some time science all over the place" I laughed like a little kid.
Well damn, I just spent the whole day watching/listening through this review series from the start, helped me get through some pretty tedious work I've been doing.
I don't remember which review you mentioned it in, but that stuff about the doctor being neurodivergent also made it click with me as well, since I always had a similar connection to the character that I couldn't fully explain. So, thanks for that :D And thanks for the series as a whole. Side note, it'll be hard now to watch a voyager episode now without thinking of "pooping" whenever phasers are used.
(Also, a special thanks for ripping HARD into Janeway for what she did in Tuvix. I'm with you on that.)
Glad to be of use, especially in combatting monotony.
Regarding the Doc: that would be Lifesigns, where he meets Danara. I've had few genuine epiphany moments in my life, but realising that about the doctor was one, and it's been most gratifying to see how many others have had the same reaction when it's pointed out.
This one terrified me as a child, as I mis-understood it a bit, and thought those creatures praying on you was a normal part of death, and so every single person who dies in Trek gets eaten by those things after death!
Now *that* would be an interesting concept. How large is this thing's hunting grounds? Is it confined to a certain sector? Does it roam and snatch up crews at the point of death everywhere? Is that the light at the end of the tunnel we see? Are there any beliefs that make you more palatable to it?
Maybe they do. Like the fate of the "bad" characters in "Ghost".
The script writers must have read my mind when writing the Chakotay scipt. I'm a nurse, and "Breath, dam it! Don't die on me!" is EXACTLY what I say every time I do CPR. I also give up after about 30 seconds as well.
6:06 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I stand corrected. Hospital emergency departments must be terribly shouty... Maybe that's why you give up after 30 seconds: so you don't damage your vocal cords.
@@Unlimited_Lives It's an *essential* part of our E-Learning. We're always too busy shouting to do anything. It's usually "STAT!" or "SHE'S NOT GOING TO MAKE IT, DOCTOR!" Until Charlie from Casualty comes in and takes control. In reality, we're a bit more like The Doctor in Voyager and sarcastic all the time.
@@BintyMcFrazzles The sarcasm among medical professionals (that somewhat often have to deal with _some_ kind of loss, so not so much plastic surgeons or so...) seems to be a global thing... I'd wager it's one of (mental) survival strategies that actually work.
Yeh this is basically Janeway imagining everyone talking about how awesome she is.
I don’t think this shuttle mission with just the captain and first officer is an actual mission. It’s another of those Native American ritual things that Chakotay randomly needs a shuttle for, but he made this one up to get Janeway alone on a shuttle…
Janeway should have instantly known her dad wasn’t her dad… he’s been dead 15 years but wears a commbadge introduced only 3 years ago.
His uniform is unique too, he really should be in one of those TNG season 1 ones.
Nice that we get a rare named shuttle here; Sacajawea, after only getting Cochrane, Drake and Tereshkova before now, although I don’t think the last one was in dialogue.
I noticed the badge while I was watching so looked it up after. As you say, that admiral uniform was never used on screen prior to this so it doesn't technically have a date attached to it. Some sites have listed it as being a 2350s variant, but that's purely based on this episode and there's no corroborating evidence for it. The only thing suggestive is the rank pip placement, but TNG dress uniform has them in the same place rather than the collar. You could argue then that it's a 2370s variant (as it's similar to one made but then not used in Generations, which is 2370) and the badge would then be contemporary. I do agree an older style uniform and badge would have been preferable though.
Gods, but I spent too much time checking that.
@@Unlimited_Lives You both put more thought into this episode than the writers did.
Series creator Jeri Taylor wrote the episode and meant it as a love letter to Kathyrn Janeway. It's one of the few season 3 episodes I always skip because, well, you told us why ;-)
Thing is, I *want* a Janeway episode. It's bizarre we've not had something exploring her. Sacred Ground is the closest we've come I guess, and that was an interesting look at her mind, but it's so odd that there hasn't been more for the lead character. This... was not it.
"all the subtlety of a Tom Paris pickup line" XD XD XD
But he wasn't even declared to be a dick in this one.
And caught up! Sometimes youtube's algorithm does get video recommendations right.
Excellent work, these never fail to get a laugh out of me.
Blessed be the Algorithm! Thank you for the kind words. It's always nice to hear that people are enjoying these.
I believe the correct term for the Vidiians is "Plague people".
6:07 Ok, I literally laughed out loud at the party poppers.
Gotta celebrate where you can on a ship with so few job prospects.
What I took the “time looping” here was the alien trying to find a believable death that Janeway would accept.
Kind of like prodding her mind for an opening
It's a pity, because other sci-fi shows have done great "Ground Hog's Day" episodes;
TNG did a great serious version where the crew slowly learn that they are stuck in a loop and eventually break it; they also managed to make the looped scenes not get stale by changing how each variation was filmed, and had the coulmbo style investigation grow each loop.
And SG1 used their loop story to be absolutely hilarious, including a reveal about what happens to one of the characters on each loop reset.
I've heard it said "I don't care who did it first, it matters what you do with it" and sadly voyager nearly always takes sci-fi tropes and just repeats them with no new interests or twists. The potential wasted by this show will never stop bugging me. If it was pure shit, you could at least just ignore it and accept that it never would have been good, but those glimpses of the quality that could have been are eternal signs of the waste.
Poor Teal'c **donk**
The most I can say about this episode is I remembered it existed when I heard you talk about it Whatever you say, at least Threshold was memorable.
Threshold had the redeeming point of some Paris background. This had berries.
"Threshold" won a primetime Emmy award in 1996 (for outstanding makeup)
@@Unlimited_Lives The idea of the transwarp drive itself was interesting too, they should have just had a better consequence then lizards
Ok i lost it 😂😂😂😂. He goes to change the setting on the captain's chair. 😂😂😂😂😂!!!
i always related to chakotay, ignored, lots going on in his head, but well hidden and only ever asked a question when you are sure theyll agree, opts out when they finally get fed up of other peoples games. also clearly in love with someone who plays with thier affections
I always felt like this episode was trying to rely on the success of TNG's Cause and Effect. However they also wanted it not to be the same so no one could call them out on reusing the concept.
Rather than time resets, they should've established a particular inserted memory from the start like the girl on the cliff in Tuvok's memory episode. Then they should've had Kess's mind powers be part of Janeway fighting against Alien Dad's afterlife speech. The fact they included Kess at all and then it came to nothing means they were just trying to fool the audience into thinking it was real despite the fact that nothing Janeway did mattered and it was all the Doctor. If they really needed to pad the runtime, this would've been the perfect time for Janeway to confront having let her father and fiance die 15 years ago. And any excuse about not wanting to explore backstories is pointless because they made an entire episode about a tattoo's back story.
Thank you for not posting today's thought experiment, as it would surly be - as a snobbish meta commentary - a time loop of its own and we would have to answer it over and over and over again.
AGAIN? FFS! I swear I posted one while it was unlisted. Looks like scheduling it sometimes deletes them then. Thanks for the heads up.
Ah, the space spider episode.
Kim should have reminisced about that time he and Jane-away smoked a doobie, oh well. Jane-away then revels in that one spring break with buff Tad from her academy days and how his ripped arms holding her firmly as they gazed at an extraterrestrial sunsets then making sweet love on an alien beach til an alien morning. Sweet memories.
Janeway stared down: Fear, Death, and the Borg.
Hm, I may have got the wrong end of the stick but I think the loops of her dying was the alien's attempt to trick her into accepting it, cos "Hey, it's a loop, it won't matter!" as the alien needs her to walk into the light and "get another chance."
When you mentioned Chakotay injects Janeway - I so thought you were going to mention that it wouldn’t be the first time because they totally boned
Totally. Like bunnies. It was great.
This episode is a shining example why another opinionated Voyager episode guide uses the catchphrases "Voyager is where potential goes to die" and "Welcome to the idiocy that is Voyager."
Which one is that?
@@oddish4352 The SFDebris Opinionated Voyager Episode Guide
@@arazilsongweaver Thanks. 🖖
U just earned a sub. I love ur videos so much lol
Glad to have you!
I watched this episode with a christian. They were *not* happy about the devil being an alien brain infection. So that's a big plus.
Voyager is at times a really tough watch. It had some great episodes, but was so inconsistent, even with its own rules and established characters. That said there are some gems in the mix.
Given that it was run by people who didn't even know how to count to 38, and didn't understand that an ensign is supposed to make lieutenant... no surprises.
Say what you want about the captain, but in this one she looks death right in the eye and tells him to go back to hell without her... and he obeys. Because Kathryn Janeway is the Chuck 🤬-ing Norris of Star Trek.
It's a shame, I do like the antagonist but there's so much in the way to get to that final confrontation that just feels like going through the motions... There's a good episode in this somewhere with a few more passes but television just needs to pump out to get to the next shoot, shame really.
Today's thought experiment: If you had to be tricked by an alien entity, who would you want them to pretend to be?
One of the voyager bridge crew, because then I know something stupid is going on
WHAAT?!? The original thought experiment came back? The hell is happening with youtube comments these days?
**Possible spoiler statement** Do we EVER get a Janeway backstory episode, good or otherwise? I don't think we do. Other than a couple references to her earlier days or missions, I don't think we ever have much of a discussion as to where Janeway really came from.
The first death shouldve been the end of it, she should have been shocked right into beliving she died. Yhe entity didnt know who he was dealing with.
Avoid having a sip of tea at 6:07
This is a big 'let's show why Janeway is awesome so you'll forget about her murdering Tuvix' episode.
Remember 🖖
"We ate berries" vs. "She straight up murdered a guy"
@@Unlimited_Lives every time you sneak Tuvok's face in shot for just a second I am filled with righteous delight.
💪😊🖖
Like most of Voyager's episodes: a good idea poorly written.
It's a bad episode.
And I snorted with the congratulations to captain chakotay 🎉 messsge you threw in
Chakotay is off to adjust the captain’s chair. Lol. I did wonder where he was off to in such a rush.