I’ve been helping a friend on mine in the electrical trade. I been in the crawlspaces and attics, but i LOVE this field of trade. I don’t understand most of it yet but I’m getting my grip on it all. We were just at a duplex changing the plugs and feeding new wires to the panel. He showed me once how to take apart the panel, to put a new one in, and put it back together, and I did it with him only explaining it once to me. He’s the best guy to learn from in the electrical trade and I can’t wait to take notes from you as well!
It is excellent to see you talking about Reading the manufactures Installation instructions, something so basic yet can make a huge difference in installation and operation. The instructions are not just paper in the box, the manufacture had to spend a lot of money in providing the very specific information not for but as Part Of the Certification and Approval process. Having been a trades person for almost 40 years, 15 years as an inspector I can say no less than 90 % of every rejection could easily have been avoided by simply following the direction wording of the manufactures installation instructions. It takes 2-5 minutes to read and know yet time after time the instructions are found in perfect condition folded up in the bottom of the equipment or garbage bin. Doing a job twice no matter how basic always takes longer than 5 minutes.
Hats off to video and professional constructive information. Operating Engineer for 40 yrs... We never know it all Constant check and recheck...Double redundancy.. Smart simple, read all warranties so important..new devices coming out all the time...your videos are so on point. Your site always gives me a good operational Bullet points to help customers understand What equipment will and will not do.. Love how the neighbors say, I watched electrician or HVAC guy...now i can do it...LOL So thanks again for having a truly helpful and safety oriented video... Have to stay up with the times..I help a lot of seniors and always double check my knowledge to protect them and myself.. Drew
I'm an aspiring electrician and I really appreciate these videos. I sent you 5 BAT for helping me out. Its awesome to see verified creators out there! Keep up the good work
Awesome! Electricians need to be passionate about this field. Learning all the time. Not a day job, a lifetime career. And free time as a beginner is nonexistent. Fill it with learning and you will go far.
If these panel surge protector warranties are similar to the warranty on a plug-in surge suppressor, then their warranty is only activated after your homeowner's insurance has paid. So, usually, they don't wind up paying for anything more than your deductible, but that still helps. The homeowner's warranty will pay for a lightning strike, but I'm not sure about a transient surge caused by something else.
If lead length is so critical on bleed through, why, in your main panel don’t you put the ground and neutral in the shortest location? Neutrals and grounds are legal to share in the main panel...
Great advice about reading the warranty and instruction, Reading the instructions sometimes you learn new things about the device. Keep up the good videos my fellow electrical brother
On the plug in neutral no wire lead type of surge protector, does it matter how close it is to the main wires coming in to box? In other words is it better to install on the top of elecrical box or does it not matter??
With the let through voltage, why not install the breaker at the bottom of the panel so that your leads don’t need to run the entire length of the panel to the top where your 2 pole breaker is? It seems as though he leads could be way shorter that way.
Some comments on lead length. Yes.... correct...the longer the leads the worse your level of protection. There are industry papers that say if you "twist" your lead wires, at 1 twist/inch of lead length, you greatly improve the impedence to the point of nearing the lab test leads used when measuring VPR, ( 6" long in lab)....and also this---> if you can't twist 10 AWG wire easily you get ALMOST the same impedence improvement when the leads are parallel but tightly TOUCHING one another...like when using zip ties, tightly.Greatly improves the pass-through limit.
Can you use the plug on neutral style with the ground and neutral bars not bonded? It is the main panel (customer load), but is the second point of disconnect.
The mfg recommendation is to have two single pole breakers, not a ganged dual pole. This is to maintain protection on the second phase if the first phase only is triggered. Also, it is emphasize that the wires should be twisted (to reduce the inductive coupling). It is right there in the installation instructions.
I just picked up a HEPD25 and the instructions state "maximum 30a, 120/240 V Two-pole breaker OR 2 adjacent maximum 30a 120/240 V single-pole breakers... "
Is it reasonable to think about putting a rubber grommet on that device to further water-proof it for outdoors or unnecessary? Thanks for your excellent videos and information.
Thank you for the good explanation!! But I’ve got a question: If you’re installing a SPD below your panel, does it really matter, where you place the breaker for the SPD? I’m asking because, if you put it up high and you run long wires down to the SPD, it’s the same distance (if measured from the main breaker on the top of the panel) , as if you put the breaker on the bottom of the panel and run short wires. The distance I talk here about means the length of conductors in sum (busbar + wires). Or is it better to mount the breaker on the bottom, since the busbars may have lower impedance than the wires (more crossectional area)? Bests :)
It's more important that the lines to ground and neutral are short -that's the priority with placement. And be sure that the panel is well-grounded (I live in an area with old housing stock where a lot of panels are just grounded to the closest water pipe and then jumped at the meter: so if a plumber installs some pex in between those points, there is no longer a serious ground.
Thanks for all the great videos and info Dustin! I have a quick question… if you have a sub panel does that need it’s own surge protector? One for main panel and one for subpanel? Or will the surge protector on main panel cover both panels?
i know this is outside so the homeruns are long and any appliance is far from it. Yet, why did you not install it on the side so the wires are shorter? I get the water concern but it won't be an issue. And, the instructions for this particular HEPD80, indicate that you need to twist or braid the two hots to make it efficient. It is what should be done in everyone of them but I was glad to discover that Schneider wrote it clearly in the instructions while others ignore to and is up to us to do it. I was surprised and kind of dissapointed that you did not do it in this video. Also, mention that no sharp bends, we old timers trained learning that the bottom of a soda can is the standard for any curves in the wires. Remember that these wires are not used the same as the rest of the circuits, and not just for the "noise" like we do in low voltage and communication ones, but it helps deter impedence thus the protector can absorb more juice and shunt way more...each nanosecond counts!
The other day, lighting hit a tree in my back yard, or should I say I suspect that is what happen from the bark of the tree being about 60 feet in all directions away from the tree. I had some outlets that don't work now addition to my Mancave recliner chair which doesn't work now. I get it, reasoning of having a whole house surge protector. I have a garage where my woodworking tools are...some are large tools and they cost thousands of $$$. The garage has a sub panel box of the main panel inside the house. Should I have also a surge protector in this box?
When installing a surge protector at the main panel, because the neutral and grounds are bonded together already does that mean that you can wire the ground and neutral wires next to each other on the same bus bar? Or do you still need to wire the ground and neutral to their own bars as if they weren't bonded?
A main panel...where neutral and ground are "connected" ( bridged...bonded)....you can land neutral and ground on either. For "eye-appeal" and a cleaner "look"...a lot of the more careful installs place all grounds on one bus and all neutrals on the other....but it's not necessary. CAVEAT....keeping it separate IS critical for sub-panels where the neutral and ground busses are NOT connected, but kept separate.
Question. What if there is no space left in the combo panel for a surge protector. Can I still install it in the sub panel? Would it still protect the circuits?
Great info love it make a video of colors high and low volts solid I'm in my first year aprrentice for commercial also tips and phone app or books we can carry as reference
That let through voltage is why you still need the surge protector you have at your devices because they'll catch the let through voltage that is left for further protection at the device(s). One thing you didn't mention in the video is if it matters where the circuit breaker feeding the surge protector goes. Can it go anywhere there is an opening? Or does it go at the top most circuit breaker openings?
He did mention, he said put it as close as want to reduce the lead lengths. Not sure why he still put his near the the top far from the device after saying that. I guess for aesthetic reasons and maybe the length isn't an issue since it's close already
Hey Dustin, just wanted to correct 2 things you mentioned at 2:20 First of all, residential services are single phase. You have 2 legs inside the panel not 2 phases. It's split phase, not 2 separate phases. Also you mentioned that it's a "220" breaker. Negative, the utility voltage is 120/240. It hasn't been 110/220 in many, many decades.
Technicalities really, many people call it 220 instead of 240 (idk y) and I guess w the phases you have a point but I’ve heard an A and B phase referring to single phase so he isn’t wrong either
He may not in this one, but in a lot of his videos he will explain that “technically” something should be called X, but you will always hear it called Y in the real world, so he calls it Y for clarity. These are almost certainly two of those cases….I am positive he knows the difference.
Yeah there's no such thing as 220 volts in America. He had to mean split phase not 2 phase because there's only single phase ran to residential houses.
Just came from the other video and wanted to see how difficult this is gonna be. Edit- So would you recommend the breaker style over the wire-in type? You seemed to imply that at the beginning of the video.
I have an 8 space CSED and a subpanel inside. Does it matter which panel the SPD is installed? I'm thinking inside the CSED since that's the closest to the service drop?
It’s interesting you used a 20 amp breaker. I bought a SPD from Eaton and it requires a 50 amp breaker. Seems like a smaller breaker would significantly reduce the surge suppression abilities.
The question can also be made for connecting via direct bus wiring as that has no branch circuit breaker at all, and it's load side of the main, not line side which he talked about at 2:08. But SPD performance is not the only factor for that, having to either work hot or turn off the main might be a tradeoff you don't want to make. With the breaker install, HEPD80 instructions say, "connect ... to a maximum of 30A ... breaker". As for why 20A versus 30A, good question, maybe he didn't have 30A handy?
The device is what's being protected by the 20amp breaker, not anything else. The only reason for the breaker is to protect the device, it has nothing to do with the surges or the breaker would be nuisance tripping constantly. The manufacturer's sticker says to protect with up to a 2-pole 30 so I'm protecting the device to it's manufacturer nameplate rating, just like we'd do with a motor or appliance. An SPD is not taking the impact of the entire load in a surge, it's balancing the impact through the SPD, the load, and depending on the type of surge - the utility system, and earth.
@@ElectricianU how do you think the SPD is doing it’s protective work? It clearly is taking an abnormally high voltage that it senses on the 1 or 2 hot wires and passing that energy onto the ground wire. This means that the power/energy is indeed passing through the breakers during the brief moment that the surge is occurring. Now, if there are other surge strips at various points of usage, then they are also doing the same thing and passing current from the hot wire to the ground wire throughout the house at various points. But to say that the SPD is not passing the surge energy through the breaker is incorrect. The path order would be breaker to SPD to ground.
@@neilbrookins8428 breakers are designed to perform protection under normal use. The surge protection device is considered a load. It consumes energy to simply sit there and await surges. Then it actually (hopefully) performs upon a surge, but the breaker itself does nothing to help absorb the surge. Hope that helps !!!
@@neilbrookins8428 Whole House surge protectors handle 40,000 Amps for a split second. If the breaker's purpose had anything to do with protecting the system and not the device, do you really think it would matter if it was 20 amps or 50 amps when we're talking about 40,000 amps?
I found a Supco SCW Secondary Surge Arrester that was double tapped onto a 2 pole 20 amp breaker. I bought another breaker for it so I would be double tapped. This surge protector doesn’t have a white neutral wire. Should I get a different one or it the surge protector with a ground and two hots okay?
When a main power panel does not have any expansion available, can a surge protector be installed on a pigtail with another branch circuit; sharing a single circuit breaker?
Nice vid. I have one installed in my breaker but it is / down on the left side. I am gussing that leaves some things unprotected? If so, is there such a thing s a surge protected shut off box? I have one down at my gate and the opener was k and I REALLY want it protected
I did but just to show the differences between the two, not for extra protection. I'm not sure that having two at the panel would provide any protection above that which is already present with one. I'd imagine so, but I can't guarantee that.
I have been doing research on a whole panel surge protection ,I called 5 supple houses none carry them no demand .I called my electrician he says they are worth less lighting does something different every time jumping from cable over to power ,many ways ,The only one he says are good are the ones the power company will install charge a monthly fee .Good luck on a pay out from a warranty claim .
I was always told the surge protector should be as close to the infeed of the panel as possible - if you put it at the bottom in a top-fed panel, you just added an extra foot. Thoughts?
Depends on what type you're talking about. They one I have in the top (Plug On Neutral Style) needs to be at the top, closest to the main breaker. But any that have leads (like the HEPD80) just need to have short lead length because of the size of the conductors and the impedance that adds up as the conductors increase in length. The real issue with let-through voltage is from the panel's bus to the device through the leads. The bus offers such less impedance (because of how thick/large of a conductor it is) that anywhere on the bus is generally fine. But when it changes over to the breaker, to screw on terminals, then the path changes to tiny little conductors on their way to the SPD device, this is the weak link in the chain of effectiveness. I've read through all of the literature from both of these products and neither says anything about it needing to be installed near the main, but they all talk about lead length in the warranty section.
When a surge enters through your mains, it propagates down the voltage rails in microseconds. Whether you install the connecting breaker at the top or at the bottom is immaterial. What matters is getting the surge ie. voltage spike off the rails and to ground with as short a lead as possible. Lead length adds inductance. Lightning is not 60Hz, but contains many different and high frequencies. The higher the higher the frequency, the more those long leads look like a big resistor, preventing that portion of the surge from being quenched. So place the surge suppressor anywhere in the panel, but plan its location based on the Neutral and Ground bus bar location so the leads from the suppressor are as short as possible.
Speaking of reading the warranty wording, I was reading the warranty for the ultra surge by Eaton. It covers 108,000 amps. And they say they warranty up to $75,000 of connected equipment. HOWEVER. If you read carefully, they say they do not cover acts of god, example, lightning. Why would a surge protector not cover lightning? I understand it isn’t going to completely protect against lightning, that’s not it’s primary function, but that seems kinda off to me and off putting to the customers I install these for. Any thoughts?
I am not a electrician, so my question is I had a house built and I have 2 breaker boxs in the basement and 1 in the garage. So the question is the surge protector without leads, do i have to install in each breaker box? or is it a option for better protection if i do?
I have no more space in my main electrical panel. I do have a sub panel that has open slots. This is another room so I can not move the circuits from main panel to sub panel. Can a whole house surge protector be installed in sub panel and still be effective?
It needs to be at the main at the service to be effective as this is the point where your neutral and ground are bonded. Your subpanels are not bonded, and that's on purpose. If you put one of these in a subpanel, the surge would have a long distance to travel to dissipate back to earth so it would most likely do a poor job of dissipating that voltage spike once it finally travels back through neutral to ground because of the added impedance of the length of the neutral conductor between the main panel and sub panel. Also, the HEPD80 model can be installed on the lugs where the main breaker attaches to the bus - since it is a type 1 SPD it has it's own overcurrent protection built in, thus it does not need to be protected by a breaker. This means you can still put one on your main service panel. =) Just read all the instructions about lead length before you do.
@@ElectricianU What about a transfer switch scenario. I have a generac service rated ATS outside with a sub panel in the basement. There aren't any breaker positions in the ATS or any tabs to wire off the load side lugs. Would you use a flat connector and add them behind the L1 and L2 cables on the load side rather than adding to the sub panel?
You mention to keep the leads as short as possible, but then mention it's ok to place your breaker any place on the buss bar to keep those leads short. Wouldn't the buss bar itself be considered a lead length? In other words, wouldn't it be best to place the breaker as close to the line entrance as possible? Thank you...
Does the location really matter that the SPD is as close as possible to the main? I’ve read conflicting thoughts on this. I had the homeline plug on version but it only fit at the bottom where the panel accepted tandem breakers. Does it matter? I see you added multiple SPD is one better than the other or can you put more than one also?
Yeah same to me... and Im confused why he put the breaker in the upper part wherein he can also put it in the last slot to maximize the protection... he said that the leads must not be longer or it will still send some voltage in the equipment...
Thank you Dustin! Love your channel and just subscribed. I'm planning to install this on my main panel (not subpanel). However, I don't have separate neutral and ground bars. Just one bar which has both ground and neutral wires connected to it. Any reason why I can't connect the green and white wires to this one bar? Thank you!
I got the surge protector HEPD80. I see that the wires coming out of it is 14 Gage. Will that be significant for a type one? They seemed a bit small. The wire in your video looks to be 12 Gage.
Did you install the HEPD80 with the indicator light facing the wall? Don't you need to know when the varistor(s) have gotten used up? Also, I now treat SPDs as consumable devices - after a few early ones got used up quickly and some discussions/tests/fixes from the utility, my next one lasted ~5 years. I like and have the QO250PSPD you have for easy replacement, and for additional coverage, I upgraded to a IG2280 which has the consumable SPD varisitors in a modular replacement. Love your channel!
Q: Do these newer surge protectors in homes protect the entire electrical system on the load side of the homes Hydro meter? Even if the panel it’s installed into is a sub panel, or fed from a splitter box and is in parallel with other panels, both fed from a common supply? What about protection of circuits with an AFCI or GFCI breakers or receptacles connected? Thanks for any help you might have.
Only had 1 slot left in the breaker box so used a 20/20 CH twin circuit breaker that matched my other breakers. Didn't get a light on the SPD when i set the breaker to on. Also the breaker on opposite leg tripped. Clearly I set something up wrong. Any ideas? Thanks.
a 1 slot tandem breaker gives the same phase to both circuits. You can't make 240 volts out of one. The voltage between the two screws is 0. A two-slot breaker would be on two different phases and have 240 volts between the two screws. The SPD is powered off 240v and you were feeding it 0.
SO , i install a surge protector and the green lights come on . A month later i check the protector and the lights are red . What does that mean , and what do i do about that ?
Can you help in a caravan in NZ and the camp ground suffers from spkes or surges and my ceiling lights are being affected any suggestions or if you can help it would be great. I have been looking at ampfibian from Australia but would need to fly there to get it
“I’m not going to tap this on The line side of my main breaker, that’s just silly”. Could you explain this, why is that silly ? Wouldn’t that protect against surges from the grid ?
Hello 👋🏼 I’m new to your channel, I’m an apprentice and I really enjoyed the video 👍🏼do you edit ✍️ your own content?? Also do you have any advice for new content creator in electrical trade ?? Should I even worry about making content as an apprentice or vlogging the whole journey?
What are their lifespan? Assuming no major overvoltages, how offer should an spd be replaced? For example, mine is 22 years old. Should I replace it because of age?
@@neilbrookins8428 good to know. Power surge strips sure, but anything else.... I've installed lightning arrestors and other surge protectors in substation facilities for telecom equipment: I've never seen even a light on them. When they go bang is when they tell you they need to be replaced. I hardly believe that a MFG will give you 50,000 in 10 years after their warranty period expires for a surge bar. Seems like a a decision no CFO would make.
A suppressor like the Square D HEPD80 will take repeated hits that are somewhat below its rated maximum without damage to the device. The device will sacrifice itself to suppress surges above the maximum rating and will indicate that it's no longer protecting one of the two phases by extinguishing one or both of the green pilot lights.
Disclaimer: I am not an electrician, so I apologize if my terminology is wrong. Question for Dustin or any electricians lurking in the comments: I believe this device works by monitoring line voltage and bleeding it off to neutral if there is an excess (please let me know if that is incorrect). So, since this is the service entrance and neutral and ground are bonded, what is to stop an excessive voltage (lightning strike or whatever) that is bled to neutral by this device from traveling through the neutral bus, through the bonding jumper, through the grounding system and "back-feeding" into the house and potentially the chassis of a metal appliance or something? Is there not potential for getting shocked if you happened to be holding such an appliance when that happened?
Was that a whole house surge protector? Does that mean I wouldn't have to hook up my expensive equipment like a computer or big screen t.v to a wall plugged in surge protector.
After reading on this I think I’m going to hook mine up to the load side of the main breaker feeding my house pannel, would anyone advise against this?
Another comment....I *thought* type 1 devices were installed on the line-side and not the load side...and ANY device located on the panel's bus...meaning downstream of the main disconnect/breaker....was then a Type 2 device. Wrong?....are you saying it is also dependent if the "breaker" is external ( type 2) vs internal to the device ( type 1)?.....if so, how can a type 1 be located in the bus regardless of how the protection is provided?...it's still not on the line side. Confused. Lastly.....the devices that plug in just like a double-pole breaker are nice for ease of install....BUT.....it seems they can't get up to the same surge capacity level as does (say) the Siemens FS140 ( 140,000 Amps surge capacity), that I am soon going to install in my home, but requires separate double-pole breaker and some "leads" to be connected...a. bit more of a bother...agreed.
My dad was an electrician. He used to tell us that a plumber was nothing but an electrician with his brains knocked out. No offense plumber's. I've got my meter and my main breaker panel (and transformer) 100' from my house which has a 200amp panel inside. Do I put it in the panel inside or in the main panel outside? Great video thanks.
I’m not certain, but my gut feeling is no it won’t reduce it. The diodes stay closed with such low voltage that I don’t feel load changes would cause the flickering. LED is sometimes just really weird, probably because of all the electronics in the driver. I have a SPD on my panel and in my own house I’ve seen simple A19 style LED bulbs stay glowing very dim, even with the switch turned off (no dimmer, just a switch). Thought I had possibly touched neutral to ground inside the octagon, or something like that. It turned out to be something in the bulb. I Switched out the bulb for another and problem went away. Also tried suspect bulb in another location and it still stayed dim.
Became an electrician watching you. Im on day 94 and they call me the foreman already. Got to thank you for that. Knowledge is everything!
They are probably talking shit to you Mr. Foreman
I’ve been helping a friend on mine in the electrical trade. I been in the crawlspaces and attics, but i LOVE this field of trade. I don’t understand most of it yet but I’m getting my grip on it all. We were just at a duplex changing the plugs and feeding new wires to the panel. He showed me once how to take apart the panel, to put a new one in, and put it back together, and I did it with him only explaining it once to me. He’s the best guy to learn from in the electrical trade and I can’t wait to take notes from you as well!
It is excellent to see you talking about Reading the manufactures Installation instructions, something so basic yet can make a huge difference in installation and operation. The instructions are not just paper in the box, the manufacture had to spend a lot of money in providing the very specific information not for but as Part Of the Certification and Approval process.
Having been a trades person for almost 40 years, 15 years as an inspector I can say no less than 90 % of every rejection could easily have been avoided by simply following the direction wording of the manufactures installation instructions. It takes 2-5 minutes to read and know yet time after time the instructions are found in perfect condition folded up in the bottom of the equipment or garbage bin. Doing a job twice no matter how basic always takes longer than 5 minutes.
Hats off to video and professional constructive information.
Operating Engineer for 40 yrs...
We never know it all
Constant check and recheck...Double redundancy..
Smart simple, read all warranties so important..new devices coming out all the time...your videos are so on point.
Your site always gives me a good operational
Bullet points to help customers understand
What equipment will and will not do..
Love how the neighbors say, I watched electrician or HVAC guy...now i can do it...LOL
So thanks again for having a truly helpful and safety oriented video...
Have to stay up with the times..I help a lot of seniors and always double check my knowledge to protect them and myself..
Drew
Great content as always! Love your channel brother!!!
Bro I love both y’all’s channels. You guys are amazing teachers and I truly appreciate the knowledge you guys share
"What the hell type of Plumber put that together"
I knew sooner or later I’d see Roger in these comments!!
It’s just like plumbing with electrons!
I'm an aspiring electrician and I really appreciate these videos. I sent you 5 BAT for helping me out. Its awesome to see verified creators out there! Keep up the good work
Because of you I'm becoming an electrician this coming year
Same I’m 16 and planning on becoming an electrician
I just completed my first year because of Dustin
I hope your handy work doesn't produce a lot of lemons!
Awesome!
Electricians need to be passionate about this field.
Learning all the time.
Not a day job, a lifetime career. And free time as a beginner is nonexistent. Fill it with learning and you will go far.
It is a very popular trade. The competition will be very stiff depending on what part of the country you are in.
If these panel surge protector warranties are similar to the warranty on a plug-in surge suppressor, then their warranty is only activated after your homeowner's insurance has paid. So, usually, they don't wind up paying for anything more than your deductible, but that still helps. The homeowner's warranty will pay for a lightning strike, but I'm not sure about a transient surge caused by something else.
If lead length is so critical on bleed through, why, in your main panel don’t you put the ground and neutral in the shortest location? Neutrals and grounds are legal to share in the main panel...
Thanks!
Great advice about reading the warranty and instruction, Reading the instructions sometimes you learn new things about the device. Keep up the good videos my fellow electrical brother
why did you install the breaker at the top of the panel when you said lead length should be as short as possible?
On the plug in neutral no wire lead type of surge protector, does it matter how close it is to the main wires coming in to box? In other words is it better to install on the top of elecrical box or does it not matter??
If your panel is full of breakers can you add the surge protector leads to an existing 240 20amp breaker?
Great question. That's what I want to know.
Good question I can’t see why not interested in a detailed answer
With the let through voltage, why not install the breaker at the bottom of the panel so that your leads don’t need to run the entire length of the panel to the top where your 2 pole breaker is? It seems as though he leads could be way shorter that way.
even so, it only protects that one leg right?
You have to install the surge protection bat the top.
@@Layarion no, it protects both legs since it’s on a double pole breaker.
Heh, my shop is a former cable company building...
The ENTIRE 3ph main panel is fed through MASSIVE surge protection PANEL... looks awesome.
It’s also sometimes called PEAK through voltage. Where a panel itself may have a withstand rating.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Some comments on lead length. Yes.... correct...the longer the leads the worse your level of protection. There are industry papers that say if you "twist" your lead wires, at 1 twist/inch of lead length, you greatly improve the impedence to the point of nearing the lab test leads used when measuring VPR, ( 6" long in lab)....and also this---> if you can't twist 10 AWG wire easily you get ALMOST the same impedence improvement when the leads are parallel but tightly TOUCHING one another...like when using zip ties, tightly.Greatly improves the pass-through limit.
Can you use the plug on neutral style with the ground and neutral bars not bonded? It is the main panel (customer load), but is the second point of disconnect.
The mfg recommendation is to have two single pole breakers, not a ganged dual pole. This is to maintain protection on the second phase if the first phase only is triggered. Also, it is emphasize that the wires should be twisted (to reduce the inductive coupling). It is right there in the installation instructions.
I just picked up a HEPD25 and the instructions state "maximum 30a, 120/240 V Two-pole breaker OR 2 adjacent maximum 30a 120/240 V single-pole breakers... "
This is another exellente video. Thanks for this value Information
Is it reasonable to think about putting a rubber grommet on that device to further water-proof it for outdoors or unnecessary? Thanks for your excellent videos and information.
Thank you for the good explanation!!
But I’ve got a question:
If you’re installing a SPD below your panel, does it really matter, where you place the breaker for the SPD?
I’m asking because, if you put it up high and you run long wires down to the SPD, it’s the same distance (if measured from the main breaker on the top of the panel) , as if you put the breaker on the bottom of the panel and run short wires. The distance I talk here about means the length of conductors in sum (busbar + wires).
Or is it better to mount the breaker on the bottom, since the busbars may have lower impedance than the wires (more crossectional area)?
Bests :)
It's more important that the lines to ground and neutral are short -that's the priority with placement. And be sure that the panel is well-grounded (I live in an area with old housing stock where a lot of panels are just grounded to the closest water pipe and then jumped at the meter: so if a plumber installs some pex in between those points, there is no longer a serious ground.
I noticed the nice, relaxing background music playing while you installed the SPDs.
You are always the best Dustin
are the surge protectors with leads panel specific or can i install any one on any panel as long as i have a spare breaker?
Thanks for all the great videos and info Dustin! I have a quick question… if you have a sub panel does that need it’s own surge protector? One for main panel and one for subpanel? Or will the surge protector on main panel cover both panels?
If it's being fed from your main panel, it will be just fine.
@@tinyb69 thank you!
is there a video on installing a surge protector at the transfer switch of my home standby generator?
i know this is outside so the homeruns are long and any appliance is far from it. Yet, why did you not install it on the side so the wires are shorter? I get the water concern but it won't be an issue. And, the instructions for this particular HEPD80, indicate that you need to twist or braid the two hots to make it efficient. It is what should be done in everyone of them but I was glad to discover that Schneider wrote it clearly in the instructions while others ignore to and is up to us to do it. I was surprised and kind of dissapointed that you did not do it in this video. Also, mention that no sharp bends, we old timers trained learning that the bottom of a soda can is the standard for any curves in the wires.
Remember that these wires are not used the same as the rest of the circuits, and not just for the "noise" like we do in low voltage and communication ones, but it helps deter impedence thus the protector can absorb more juice and shunt way more...each nanosecond counts!
Great that it’s code for new installations now.
The other day, lighting hit a tree in my back yard, or should I say I suspect that is what happen from the bark of the tree being about 60 feet in all directions away from the tree. I had some outlets that don't work now addition to my Mancave recliner chair which doesn't work now. I get it, reasoning of having a whole house surge protector. I have a garage where my woodworking tools are...some are large tools and they cost thousands of $$$. The garage has a sub panel box of the main panel inside the house. Should I have also a surge protector in this box?
Real good information thanks.
Great video can I install the D Square Q breaker style surge protector on either side of the panel box
When installing a surge protector at the main panel, because the neutral and grounds are bonded together already does that mean that you can wire the ground and neutral wires next to each other on the same bus bar? Or do you still need to wire the ground and neutral to their own bars as if they weren't bonded?
A main panel...where neutral and ground are "connected" ( bridged...bonded)....you can land neutral and ground on either. For "eye-appeal" and a cleaner "look"...a lot of the more careful installs place all grounds on one bus and all neutrals on the other....but it's not necessary. CAVEAT....keeping it separate IS critical for sub-panels where the neutral and ground busses are NOT connected, but kept separate.
Question. What if there is no space left in the combo panel for a surge protector. Can I still install it in the sub panel? Would it still protect the circuits?
Great info love it make a video of colors high and low volts solid I'm in my first year aprrentice for commercial also tips and phone app or books we can carry as reference
That let through voltage is why you still need the surge protector you have at your devices because they'll catch the let through voltage that is left for further protection at the device(s). One thing you didn't mention in the video is if it matters where the circuit breaker feeding the surge protector goes. Can it go anywhere there is an opening? Or does it go at the top most circuit breaker openings?
He did mention, he said put it as close as want to reduce the lead lengths. Not sure why he still put his near the the top far from the device after saying that. I guess for aesthetic reasons and maybe the length isn't an issue since it's close already
If short leads are important why didn't you connect it to a breaker at the bottom where the protector is?
Sir. I want the baddest full home surge protector for a two story home. Which one do you recommend. Price is not a concern.
Hey Dustin, just wanted to correct 2 things you mentioned at 2:20
First of all, residential services are single phase. You have 2 legs inside the panel not 2 phases. It's split phase, not 2 separate phases.
Also you mentioned that it's a "220" breaker. Negative, the utility voltage is 120/240. It hasn't been 110/220 in many, many decades.
Technicalities really, many people call it 220 instead of 240 (idk y) and I guess w the phases you have a point but I’ve heard an A and B phase referring to single phase so he isn’t wrong either
He may not in this one, but in a lot of his videos he will explain that “technically” something should be called X, but you will always hear it called Y in the real world, so he calls it Y for clarity. These are almost certainly two of those cases….I am positive he knows the difference.
Here come the NEC freaks! lol
I always fall back to the adage "220-221 whatever it takes" hahaha
@@rlta8352
Oops. At 2:23 you mention "two phases". You mean the two legs of //single phase// split 220, correct? Or did I miss something?
Yeah there's no such thing as 220 volts in America. He had to mean split phase not 2 phase because there's only single phase ran to residential houses.
Just came from the other video and wanted to see how difficult this is gonna be.
Edit- So would you recommend the breaker style over the wire-in type? You seemed to imply that at the beginning of the video.
Yeah; I'd like to know why too...
Nothing protects from a direct lighting strike. But those are very rare, and usually involes putting out fires.
I have an 8 space CSED and a subpanel inside. Does it matter which panel the SPD is installed? I'm thinking inside the CSED since that's the closest to the service drop?
Great work bro!! Lots of neat information!
Thanks for watching!!
Hey keep up the good work I am an electrician also all the way from jamaica
It’s interesting you used a 20 amp breaker. I bought a SPD from Eaton and it requires a 50 amp breaker. Seems like a smaller breaker would significantly reduce the surge suppression abilities.
The question can also be made for connecting via direct bus wiring as that has no branch circuit breaker at all, and it's load side of the main, not line side which he talked about at 2:08. But SPD performance is not the only factor for that, having to either work hot or turn off the main might be a tradeoff you don't want to make. With the breaker install, HEPD80 instructions say, "connect ... to a maximum of 30A ... breaker". As for why 20A versus 30A, good question, maybe he didn't have 30A handy?
The device is what's being protected by the 20amp breaker, not anything else. The only reason for the breaker is to protect the device, it has nothing to do with the surges or the breaker would be nuisance tripping constantly. The manufacturer's sticker says to protect with up to a 2-pole 30 so I'm protecting the device to it's manufacturer nameplate rating, just like we'd do with a motor or appliance. An SPD is not taking the impact of the entire load in a surge, it's balancing the impact through the SPD, the load, and depending on the type of surge - the utility system, and earth.
@@ElectricianU how do you think the SPD is doing it’s protective work? It clearly is taking an abnormally high voltage that it senses on the 1 or 2 hot wires and passing that energy onto the ground wire. This means that the power/energy is indeed passing through the breakers during the brief moment that the surge is occurring. Now, if there are other surge strips at various points of usage, then they are also doing the same thing and passing current from the hot wire to the ground wire throughout the house at various points.
But to say that the SPD is not passing the surge energy through the breaker is incorrect. The path order would be breaker to SPD to ground.
@@neilbrookins8428 breakers are designed to perform protection under normal use. The surge protection device is considered a load. It consumes energy to simply sit there and await surges. Then it actually (hopefully) performs upon a surge, but the breaker itself does nothing to help absorb the surge. Hope that helps !!!
@@neilbrookins8428 Whole House surge protectors handle 40,000 Amps for a split second. If the breaker's purpose had anything to do with protecting the system and not the device, do you really think it would matter if it was 20 amps or 50 amps when we're talking about 40,000 amps?
I found a Supco SCW Secondary Surge Arrester that was double tapped onto a 2 pole 20 amp breaker. I bought another breaker for it so I would be double tapped. This surge protector doesn’t have a white neutral wire. Should I get a different one or it the surge protector with a ground and two hots okay?
Sir, i'm from Philippines I get really amazed than here in our country fewer stalled SPD
When a main power panel does not have any expansion available, can a surge protector be installed on a pigtail with another branch circuit; sharing a single circuit breaker?
Nice vid. I have one installed in my breaker but it is / down on the left side. I am gussing that leaves some things unprotected? If so, is there such a thing s a surge protected shut off box? I have one down at my gate and the opener was k and I REALLY want it protected
Another great video! Did you end up installing two? The Plug on Neutral and a breaker version? If so, is there benefit to that over just one?
I did but just to show the differences between the two, not for extra protection. I'm not sure that having two at the panel would provide any protection above that which is already present with one. I'd imagine so, but I can't guarantee that.
💚💚💚💚 bookmark/notes: the SC s cig to the work , license plate off car and under box ….ect….tbc….-g-b, bot
If only I were this early to work, I wouldn't get fired
I have been doing research on a whole panel surge protection ,I called 5 supple houses none carry them no demand .I called my electrician he says they are worth less lighting does something different every time jumping from cable over to power ,many ways ,The only one he says are good are the ones the power company will install charge a monthly fee .Good luck on a pay out from a warranty claim .
I was always told the surge protector should be as close to the infeed of the panel as possible - if you put it at the bottom in a top-fed panel, you just added an extra foot. Thoughts?
Depends on what type you're talking about. They one I have in the top (Plug On Neutral Style) needs to be at the top, closest to the main breaker. But any that have leads (like the HEPD80) just need to have short lead length because of the size of the conductors and the impedance that adds up as the conductors increase in length. The real issue with let-through voltage is from the panel's bus to the device through the leads. The bus offers such less impedance (because of how thick/large of a conductor it is) that anywhere on the bus is generally fine. But when it changes over to the breaker, to screw on terminals, then the path changes to tiny little conductors on their way to the SPD device, this is the weak link in the chain of effectiveness. I've read through all of the literature from both of these products and neither says anything about it needing to be installed near the main, but they all talk about lead length in the warranty section.
@@ElectricianU so if you are installing one with leads at the bottom (as you did), would you want to install the breaker in the bottom-most slot?
When a surge enters through your mains, it propagates down the voltage rails in microseconds. Whether you install the connecting breaker at the top or at the bottom is immaterial. What matters is getting the surge ie. voltage spike off the rails and to ground with as short a lead as possible. Lead length adds inductance. Lightning is not 60Hz, but contains many different and high frequencies. The higher the higher the frequency, the more those long leads look like a big resistor, preventing that portion of the surge from being quenched. So place the surge suppressor anywhere in the panel, but plan its location based on the Neutral and Ground bus bar location so the leads from the suppressor are as short as possible.
@@thomashybiske5399 YES. This is important.
I enjoyed it. I appreciate it
I Am just educating myself on this topic, but my understanding is the anything on the downstream side of the main breaker is type 2???
When SPD is installed, do lighting arrestor matters any more.
Can I ask why u didn't put breaker all way at bottom? For sake of neatness that u didn't have 10 empties and then a breaker by itself at bottom?
Speaking of reading the warranty wording, I was reading the warranty for the ultra surge by Eaton. It covers 108,000 amps. And they say they warranty up to $75,000 of connected equipment. HOWEVER. If you read carefully, they say they do not cover acts of god, example, lightning. Why would a surge protector not cover lightning? I understand it isn’t going to completely protect against lightning, that’s not it’s primary function, but that seems kinda off to me and off putting to the customers I install these for. Any thoughts?
So you basically have double back up coverage from what I’m looking at?
I am not a electrician, so my question is I had a house built and I have 2 breaker boxs in the basement and 1 in the garage. So the question is the surge protector without leads, do i have to install in each breaker box? or is it a option for better protection if i do?
I have no more space in my main electrical panel. I do have a sub panel that has open slots. This is another room so I can not move the circuits from main panel to sub panel. Can a whole house surge protector be installed in sub panel and still be effective?
It needs to be at the main at the service to be effective as this is the point where your neutral and ground are bonded. Your subpanels are not bonded, and that's on purpose. If you put one of these in a subpanel, the surge would have a long distance to travel to dissipate back to earth so it would most likely do a poor job of dissipating that voltage spike once it finally travels back through neutral to ground because of the added impedance of the length of the neutral conductor between the main panel and sub panel. Also, the HEPD80 model can be installed on the lugs where the main breaker attaches to the bus - since it is a type 1 SPD it has it's own overcurrent protection built in, thus it does not need to be protected by a breaker. This means you can still put one on your main service panel. =) Just read all the instructions about lead length before you do.
That was very helpful and clear, thanks you
@@ElectricianU What about a transfer switch scenario. I have a generac service rated ATS outside with a sub panel in the basement. There aren't any breaker positions in the ATS or any tabs to wire off the load side lugs. Would you use a flat connector and add them behind the L1 and L2 cables on the load side rather than adding to the sub panel?
You mention to keep the leads as short as possible, but then mention it's ok to place your breaker any place on the buss bar to keep those leads short. Wouldn't the buss bar itself be considered a lead length? In other words, wouldn't it be best to place the breaker as close to the line entrance as possible? Thank you...
What would you recommend for a siemens panel? No arc faults
Another great informative video, know your product your installing not just how to install the device...
Does the location really matter that the SPD is as close as possible to the main? I’ve read conflicting thoughts on this. I had the homeline plug on version but it only fit at the bottom where the panel accepted tandem breakers. Does it matter? I see you added multiple SPD is one better than the other or can you put more than one also?
Yeah same to me... and Im confused why he put the breaker in the upper part wherein he can also put it in the last slot to maximize the protection... he said that the leads must not be longer or it will still send some voltage in the equipment...
Thank you Dustin! Love your channel and just subscribed. I'm planning to install this on my main panel (not subpanel). However, I don't have separate neutral and ground bars. Just one bar which has both ground and neutral wires connected to it. Any reason why I can't connect the green and white wires to this one bar? Thank you!
Came across today, DTK 3 wire (black) secondary surge double tapped into a 60A and a 15A, my thoughts, it cant be proper/safe.
do these preotec from frequency jumps in ur power?
Is there a particular reason you added a second Type 1 protector?
I got the surge protector HEPD80. I see that the wires coming out of it is 14 Gage. Will that be significant for a type one? They seemed a bit small. The wire in your video looks to be 12 Gage.
You're awesome dude thanks so much !!
This seems like a type 2 spd, type 1 goes before your electrical meter?
Did you install the HEPD80 with the indicator light facing the wall? Don't you need to know when the varistor(s) have gotten used up? Also, I now treat SPDs as consumable devices - after a few early ones got used up quickly and some discussions/tests/fixes from the utility, my next one lasted ~5 years. I like and have the QO250PSPD you have for easy replacement, and for additional coverage, I upgraded to a IG2280 which has the consumable SPD varisitors in a modular replacement. Love your channel!
Q: Do these newer surge protectors in homes protect the entire electrical system on the load side of the homes Hydro meter?
Even if the panel it’s installed into is a sub panel, or fed from a splitter box and is in parallel with other panels, both fed from a common supply?
What about protection of circuits with an AFCI or GFCI breakers or receptacles connected?
Thanks for any help you might have.
Only had 1 slot left in the breaker box so used a 20/20 CH twin circuit breaker that matched my other breakers. Didn't get a light on the SPD when i set the breaker to on. Also the breaker on opposite leg tripped. Clearly I set something up wrong. Any ideas? Thanks.
a 1 slot tandem breaker gives the same phase to both circuits. You can't make 240 volts out of one. The voltage between the two screws is 0. A two-slot breaker would be on two different phases and have 240 volts between the two screws. The SPD is powered off 240v and you were feeding it 0.
SO , i install a surge protector and the green lights come on . A month later i check the protector and the lights are red . What does that mean , and what do i do about that ?
Can you help in a caravan in NZ and the camp ground suffers from spkes or surges and my ceiling lights are being affected any suggestions or if you can help it would be great. I have been looking at ampfibian from Australia but would need to fly there to get it
“I’m not going to tap this on The line side of my main breaker, that’s just silly”.
Could you explain this, why is that silly ? Wouldn’t that protect against surges from the grid ?
Yep. Good question.
Hello 👋🏼 I’m new to your channel, I’m an apprentice and I really enjoyed the video 👍🏼do you edit ✍️ your own content?? Also do you have any advice for new content creator in electrical trade ?? Should I even worry about making content as an apprentice or vlogging the whole journey?
What are their lifespan? Assuming no major overvoltages, how offer should an spd be replaced? For example, mine is 22 years old. Should I replace it because of age?
It should have a surge rating.... But like all equipment I've used: nothing actually has a counter so you never know when to replace the stupid thing.
@@jamess1787 mine has two green lights. The manual says to replace it when the light goes out. But there is no specific time limit.
@@neilbrookins8428 good to know. Power surge strips sure, but anything else.... I've installed lightning arrestors and other surge protectors in substation facilities for telecom equipment: I've never seen even a light on them. When they go bang is when they tell you they need to be replaced.
I hardly believe that a MFG will give you 50,000 in 10 years after their warranty period expires for a surge bar. Seems like a a decision no CFO would make.
A suppressor like the Square D HEPD80 will take repeated hits that are somewhat below its rated maximum without damage to the device. The device will sacrifice itself to suppress surges above the maximum rating and will indicate that it's no longer protecting one of the two phases by extinguishing one or both of the green pilot lights.
Great video. How much does it cost to do that??
Disclaimer: I am not an electrician, so I apologize if my terminology is wrong. Question for Dustin or any electricians lurking in the comments: I believe this device works by monitoring line voltage and bleeding it off to neutral if there is an excess (please let me know if that is incorrect). So, since this is the service entrance and neutral and ground are bonded, what is to stop an excessive voltage (lightning strike or whatever) that is bled to neutral by this device from traveling through the neutral bus, through the bonding jumper, through the grounding system and "back-feeding" into the house and potentially the chassis of a metal appliance or something? Is there not potential for getting shocked if you happened to be holding such an appliance when that happened?
How many volts is the surge protector you installed getting to it under normal situation and how is it getting it?
Was that a whole house surge protector? Does that mean I wouldn't have to hook up my expensive equipment like a computer or big screen t.v to a wall plugged in surge protector.
The music in the background was a little trippy. I thought I was going crazy hearing music that was not there
WHAT WOULD KLEIN TOOLS SAY ABOUT YOU USING THE LINEMANS PLIERS AS A HAMMER
Thanks
After reading on this I think I’m going to hook mine up to the load side of the main breaker feeding my house pannel, would anyone advise against this?
Would you suggest a type 1 and type 2 in the same panel? Not much extra cost - is there added benefit?
Type 2 is usually good enough. Type 1 can be a bit cost prohibitive for most. But more is better than none at all.
What do you think of the new panel and breakers from Leviton the white panels?
The smart center I am gonna be fitting them to my home. They are expensive but the best smart panel on the market at the moment, at least in the USA.
This was literally my 3rd call today lol 😆... I'm an electrician in Nashville Tennessee. Had to watch this one!
Nice!! I actually knew that ahead of time and made this 100% for you, only. IT WORKED! 😎
Another comment....I *thought* type 1 devices were installed on the line-side and not the load side...and ANY device located on the panel's bus...meaning downstream of the main disconnect/breaker....was then a Type 2 device. Wrong?....are you saying it is also dependent if the "breaker" is external ( type 2) vs internal to the device ( type 1)?.....if so, how can a type 1 be located in the bus regardless of how the protection is provided?...it's still not on the line side. Confused. Lastly.....the devices that plug in just like a double-pole breaker are nice for ease of install....BUT.....it seems they can't get up to the same surge capacity level as does (say) the Siemens FS140 ( 140,000 Amps surge capacity), that I am soon going to install in my home, but requires separate double-pole breaker and some "leads" to be connected...a. bit more of a bother...agreed.
My dad was an electrician. He used to tell us that a plumber was nothing but an electrician with his brains knocked out.
No offense plumber's.
I've got my meter and my main breaker panel (and transformer) 100' from my house which has a 200amp panel inside. Do I put it in the panel inside or in the main panel outside? Great video thanks.
Why doesn't square d qo have a dual purpose breaker and surge protector like Siemens? QO top of line.. whatever
Would a type two spd reduce LED Flickering with load changes in a house?
I’m not certain, but my gut feeling is no it won’t reduce it. The diodes stay closed with such low voltage that I don’t feel load changes would cause the flickering. LED is sometimes just really weird, probably because of all the electronics in the driver. I have a SPD on my panel and in my own house I’ve seen simple A19 style LED bulbs stay glowing very dim, even with the switch turned off (no dimmer, just a switch). Thought I had possibly touched neutral to ground inside the octagon, or something like that. It turned out to be something in the bulb. I Switched out the bulb for another and problem went away. Also tried suspect bulb in another location and it still stayed dim.
@@jakesully5402 LED bulbs can do weird things. When wired in parallel one bad bulb can cause all kinds of problems. Such as you described.
What if I don't have neutral in my system can I still use this brand?
Only if it is listed that way or can function that way and it is explicitly stated by the maker that it can be used that way. Otherwise, no.