How To Install a Surge Protector in Main Panel - Best SPD Location & NEC Type 1, 2, 3, & 4 Explained
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 พ.ค. 2024
- GE THomeSurge Whole House 36 kA SPD: homedepot.sjv.io/ORMNgN
GE Panel Mount THQLSURGE: homedepot.sjv.io/QOMqm3
ABB GE Main Panels: homedepot.sjv.io/YgM55j
Documentation For The THOMESURGE : search.abb.com/library/Downlo...
Square D QO QO2175SB SurgeBreaker: amzn.to/3VbQESz
Square D Homeline HOM2175SB SurgeBreaker: amzn.to/3Ca9gJS
Eaton BR BRNSURGE Whole Panel SPD: amzn.to/3EtZkxI
Eaton CH Panel SPD: amzn.to/3Eyqof8
Additional Information on SPD's from Mike Holt:
• Overvoltage Protection...
My Favorite Tool: amzn.to/3NIFJuO
Tools We Recommend: amzn.to/3Cssuwh
In this video we go over how to install a whole house surge protection device (SPD) and discuss the differences between type 1, 2, 3, and 4 SPD's. The device being installed today is the GE THomeSurge by ABB and we go over all the steps you need to take to install this in your own system in an optimal way.
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Blessings from MN,
Ben
One advantage of using a Type 2 SPD is that it is still actively protecting the all panel circuits when your home's been switched over to generator power because a storm has caused commercial power to fail. Since a Type 2 SPD is on the load side of the main panel breaker it remains operational regardless whether the incoming power is from an alternate power source (generator) or from normal commercial power.
Good to know. Thanks for sharing.
Hey Benjamin, here is my lightning/surge protector story:
I worked as a service electrician, so this was at a customer's house back in 2015 outside Atlanta, Georgia. The customer knew exactly where lightning struck the ground in her yard--there was a nice size hole. The lightning travelled into her garage thru the low-voltage side of the sprinkler system, blew up the sprinkler control box on the wall, then blew up the transformer plugged into an outlet on the ceiling (for a garage door opener, but none present). That also sent the outlet and metal box up and into the ceiling. I have a picture of it, but it won't let me attach here.
She already had a surge protector on her main panel, and I'd like to believe it prevented any further damage inside the home--although with lightning, you never know...
Unfortunately I don't remember the brand of the surge protector, now 7 years later.
Rich
You asked for comments on issues with surges. I had a full power outage. Had a back-up subpanel set up for Generator. Cranked up the Generator and switched from main panel to back up panel. All was good for about 10 minutes. Then all hell broke lose. Had power surge that blew out anything with a circuit board (Garage opener, ice maker, ceiling fan, etc..). Luckily I had surge power strips for TV and a UPS for computer and they worked. The surge was so strong it melted the plastic cases on two surge power strips. While I had a whole house surge protector installed in my main panel I never thought of putting one in my generator panel. So everything connected to the generator panel received the surge. This little issue cost be several thousand dollars (insurance paid). The next day I had another whole house surge protector installed in the generator panel. I also took my generator to an electrical shop to have it check out to ensure it was not a generator issue. It checked out ok. I don't know exactly how the surge came through my main power line to my generator panel but my guess is the ground line may have become energized when the workers were working on the downed lines. Thanks for the great videos I learn a lot from you.
I worked for Schneider electric / Square D. I recently moved in a new home in AZ.
I recommend also installing surge protection on your central air conditioner outside disconnect box. I used A Square D model SDSA1175. It will help protect your compressor motor and electronics.
On a interesting note the instructions mention if your leads are over 12 inches you should twist them together several times.
Bill
Great recommendation. Thanks for sharing!
Wouldn't an inductive load like a motor better handle a surge?
Yes a motor can handle a surge better.
The surge protection in this application is installed more to protect the associated electronics in the hvac package.
But there is another reason. Every time you start the compressor the inrush current causes a spike on your power line that can cause issues with other electronic equipment in your home.
@@williamradwanski1998 Wouldn't it be better to added another capacitor then? Its like your dam is running out of water because you didn't build the dam big enough. If it was the right size, it could handle the fluctuations in the line. I wish whole home power factor correction capacitors were common item.
@@genuismensa I know they recommend putting extra capacitor on the HVAC if you have a back up generator to make it easier on the generator when the compressor starts! The HVAC makers try to save a few pennies buy putting the minimum cap in!😪
Electrical Trainee, Your videos are top tier for learning. Thanks a bunch!
Excellent tutorial, I didn’t even know how easy they are to connect an add that over voltage protection. If you do install on your main breaker with knockouts on the bottom, like we have here in AZ, it would be a worth addition to your channel!
My former Chicago area home had a voltage surge which toasted my two garage door electronics. I subsequently installed a Sq-D unit on the outside of my panel similar to this installation. Late when I went to sell the house, the buyer's inspector took exception to 2 wires on each lug of the doubled pole breaker. I responded in normal service there is no current flowing to the surge device and responded that I would not change the installation. I sold the house. Great video as usual!
This is why I try to avoid landing two wires into a breaker. Home inspectors are often dummies that use basic rules-of-thumb to quickly spot violations, even if they aren't actually violations. It's not worth the headache: they already reported to their buyer that the panel 'needs to be evaluated by an electrician', which sounds scary to a typical homeowner. I also try to avoid wire nuts in a panel (if possible), even though that's perfectly ok most everywhere.
Benjamin, new panels come with spade male terminals where you can connect directly to the service entrance connectors. I was happy to see mine did. I am glad you mentioned that is not allowed to insert in the same terminal as the service entrance conductors though, but the terminals now have that itty bitty little spade male thingy pointing up and with a 1/4 female spade terminal is a breeze and allowed. That is the beauty of the Type 1, no cannibalizing precious breaker real estate inside the distribution panel.
😂🤣🤣
When I want to do a new electrical install I can generally find you've done a video on it. Watching then gives me confidence to attempt it and be safe and be in code . I have installed a Seimens whole house surge protector at my place. Thanks for your videos and keep it up.
Next door neighbor rebuilt their entire kitchen. Fancy new appliances, controlled with state-of-the-art electronics. A few months later we had a huge power surge. Fried everything in their kitchen. Thousands in damages. That new stuff is EXPENSIVE. They got a whole house surge protector installed very quickly.
Me ... I got hit with the same surge, but no fancy electronic appliances in MY kitchen. All Old School. My computers and electronics do, of course, have heavy duty surge protection.
Thanks for the video Ben! My electric service is pretty stable but lightning did hit my neighbors pine tree, (that eventually killed it) but the electrical transformer on the utility pole was 20 ft away, we were lucky.
Nice video. I use to work for a public electric utility in Mass. and had a customer that the washer and dryer were welded together with about a 2" hole blown between them when a lightening strike hit the transformer outside their property, another time a new coiled up extenstion cord blew up like spaghetti when hit with lightning, also blew out the surge protector on the side of the panel. Thanks for a great video.
To be clear for others reading this.... SPD's won't protect from direct lightning strikes....right?
I installed a surge protector on a sub-panel in an out-building. In that panel, neutral and earth ground were not bonded together; a ground conductor went back to the main panel and a local ground ground as well. In that scenario, there was 100 yards of underground cable feeding the subpanel and a nearby lightning strike can induce a surge on neutral as well as either/both of the line conductors. They all would otherwise look like a high-impedance path to a steep rise-time lighting stroke. So I installed a surge protector that also protected Neutral-to-Ground.
Great video ... Your a natural Instructor BTW for videos. Thorough explanations and good voice for them. 👌.. I rent a farm house in a rural location and frequently experience electrical interruptions. Having many computer devices in house because I do repairs on the side I think a SP in main box is a must do for me. Thanks!
I have a SPD in the Square D QO Main Panel Outside and a SPD in the two GE Sub Panels within the house. I also have APC's for the TV's and COM's. I've only ever had a tv get fried back in the day before I ever had any SPD devices. Lesson Learned.
I did not even know they had these. a few years ago we had surges hit our house 5 times in a row in about 15 seconds; not sure what caused it but it took out our fridge, thank goodness we had an old fridge in the garage to move all the food to...
Any way due to this I've added battery backup / surge to each fridge, freezer, TV, and computer / network... Ya expensive; however when switching from grid to whole house solar backup these items can still be on while switching. That's been nice. And if the power flickers they hold everything on.
(Still I want to add these devices, looks like you can be too careful.) And brings your house to code.
Thanks for the sharing your video! Awesome education!
I use a whole house SPD in the panel and have been installing SPD receptacles where all my computer/ electronic equipment is plugged in. Also have one for my Fridge as a compressor starting up can create a voltage spike.
SPDs work in both direction of current flow which allows multiple layers of protection to be effective
I've got a type 1 on my main panel and my garage subpanel. My computers and router are plugged into UPS with type 3 surge protection. My TV is plugged into a special recessed type 3 surge protector duplex receptacle. It fits into a 2 gang box, with the electronics on 1 side and the duplex on the other. It helps keep the wires hidden for the TV and soundbar.
You make good videos. Good advise on adding whole house surge protection. People protect computers and TV's with Tripp Lites but forget that almost every appliance is now "computer" controlled.
I don't have much faith in the Square D QO surgebreaker. The builder installed that model (in the middle of the panel - wrong location - max protection when installed on 1st breaker) and I lost 7 appliance controlllers over 5 years. I installed the largest Eaton CHSPT2-Ultra Whole House Surge Protector (~$140 plus a 50amp 240V breaker) 108K amps rating on the 1st breaker in the panel. In the 7 years since its installation; no more appliances have been lost.
The only lightning strike I've had was years ago where lightning struck the metal chimney on the hose, traveled down it, arced through the sheetrock somehow to a grounded can light and to ground. The main losses were every PC in the house and the main network switch due to the inductive surge picked up by the network cabling that torched every Ethernet port that had a cable connected to it. When I took the switch apart, there was lots of evidence of magic smoke getting out.
Benjamin, I have a lot of tall concrete waterfalls, deep concrete fish / duck ponds, 15' tall pens on property constructed of heavy gauge horse panels. Over all, I've installed 8 - 10 foot copper ground rods connected with 6 gauge copper wire and heavy duty clamps to any tall heavy gauge wire cages and any structural rebar in the concrete walls of ponds and waterfalls. After 20 years, no damage from heavy lightening storms. Some of the structures have 2 ground rods. All ground clamps are cleaned yearly and sprayed with enamel paint to prevent heavy oxidation. I am assuming all the ground rods have help protect the main building from surges. I must say, I do like the one you installed and will get a couple to protect sensitive equipment for added peace of mind. Hate dealing with insurance claims.....it's a racket.
The more the better, and one on meter can is good per code, shortest wires is best. Most all of these under $100 use MOV's and the expensive ones use SASD diodes. The light checks circuit integrity, because these may be damaged after a big surge. I had some melt with sustained over voltage. Remember a power dip is not a surge. Good info here.
I ALWAYS change a MOV after a surge. i also had many change values after a surge
@@rty1955 How do you test value, they are open till a specific voltage?
I looked up the Square D Homeline and it's only good up to 900 joules. Do you know if installing two would make a difference? I'm putting these in a 100 amp Square D sub panel that is fed from a 200 amp Crouse-Hinds main that is outside. They don't make them for the Crouse-Hinds, but my sub is what feeds my lights, receptacles, tv's, and computer. Thanks.
. Nice Job Again!
@@im2yys4u81 Sure the more the better, i 've installed hundreds of those Square D's and they're ok, certainly more better expensive ones...They all parallel and add up.
I have a surge suppression device on my panel. During a power grid brown out, I heard the MOV’s inside the device making weird sounds. In the end, when I went to look at surge device, I noticed the green light dimming off and on. It saved my equipment for sure.
I have alot of high end ham radio, stereo, and home theatre electronics and I utilize individual Stage 3 devices on all of it. For Stage 2 I installed a flush mount (not fun) Siemens at my main CB panel. For Stage 1, line side, and living in Florida where we have wicked lighting, I opted to buy a FPL, Florida Power & Light, Stage 1 Power Meter for $10 a month, which includes insurance protection. 3 years ago lightning hit and destroyed a tree within 40' of my meter. Other than my meter, which was toast, I suffered no damage whatsoever, while all my neighbors suffered serious damage. Stage 1, at the source, is the way to go, and these meters, the last time I checked, cost about $250. But first check with your local power company to see if they are allowed. Keep up your great videos!
you freaking good man. I'm an electrical engineering and I'm in love with this video. thank you and please make more
Great install tips! I always install the Total Protection Solutions split phase protection unit on all main and sub panels and there coax, data and low volt protection devices on any wire entering or leaving the home when possible. They also include a ground wire, I assume it's because of the metal case they use? I also use a fluke power quality analyzer and transient surges caused by garage door motors and switching power supplies are lowered dramatically when engaged. Thanks for the video!
thanks for the video. and for all viewers- heed his advice: "always treat it like it's live"
I use the HEPD80 at our place in the mountains. Power from the pole goes to an Auto transfer for the automatic whole home backup generator switch to the first panel where the HEPD80 is located. After watching this, I might get one for the garage sub panel but use the THomeSurge in that location.
The only device I've lost to surge was an old CRT TV. Since then, I've been using point of use devices. The two I rely on most are about 20 years old at this point in time and are three outlet devices and I've always just plugged in a power strip to them and then connected the devices I want to protect. One is in out living room and it protects our TV, home theater, and satellite box as well as my laptop charger. The other is in our home office and protects my wife's computer and our printer. Recently, BPA has gifted us with a surge power strip designed specifically for such installation like our home office. It as two always hot outlets and four only hot when power is going trough the main outlet. Don't ask me how the make it work, but I've tested in and it works. We have the computer plugged into the main outlet and the printer into the other always hot outlet. Monitor and other peripherals in the remaining outlet. I have plugged this power strip into my old reliable three outlet surge protector at the wall outlet... redundant protection.
I'm currently considering whole house protection because when I retired we moved to a small town that has numerous voltage outages last from short enough to simply make the lights flicker to 12 hours. A neighbor bought a new freezer and within a month, voltage surges wiped out the freezer. He not only lost the freezer, but a quarter of a beef that he bought the freezer to freeze. About a thousand dollars in all.
I'm preparing to buy a freezer and I will definitely be replacing the outlet for the freezer with a 2-Outlet In-Wall Surge Protector. That will cover the freezer, but I question just how much my refrigerator , dishwasher, microwave and range are at risk, not to mention my forced air electric furnace and water heater.
Nice, step-by-step video! Thanks! I noticed the the original electrician did not use anti-shorting bushings on the EMT connector at the 3 o’clock position nor did use them at the 12 o’clock position for the “Romex” cables entering the box.
That’s pretty common.
@@suspicionofdeceit yes it may be a common practice, but a “by-the-book” electrical inspection may fail the installation.
So my strategy includes a similar product (80kA) in my main panel and regular surge protection strips at any outlet that has something electronic plugged into it (basically anything with a circuit board in it). I also employ UPS backups at each computer to avoid os/data damage at every computer in my house and they have surge suppressors in them as well. Honestly the addition of the UPS systems were a necessary game changer that has prevented many problems that were plaguing my existence. The addition of the Type 1 suppressor was the cherry on top because it covers appliances like my refrigerator/dishwasher/etc that really shouldn't be plugged into power strips and yet still has potentially delicate circuit boards in them. Not to mention the 2 pole equipment like ranges and dryers, etc.
I mean I think it's about all a person in my particular home can do within reason besides having the correct breakers and GFCI's in accompaniment to protect my family and our equipment. At least this was my conclusion anyway. ;)
I’m a homeowner unversed in this stuff but have an electrical engineer friend five States away who insists that whole house surge protectors are a must-have but do NOT double them up with those at-plug surge protector strips in which I have invested (currently I’m watching videos like this to try and figure out the best whole-house protector to buy, btw). Here’s what he emailed to me:
Although some people have been known to double up, two surge protectors in series DOUBLES the clamping voltage. Is that bad? ABSOLUTELY. The clamping voltage is the threshold for which all voltage spikes ABOVE that value get clamped (as in current is not allowed to flow -- it's STOPPED). Hence, clamping voltage protects your devices from voltage spikes above a certain value. The closer to 120 (without being too close), the better. So, a 300V clamping voltage is better than 400V. Use two surge protectors in series with 300V clamping voltage, and you're not protecting anything until a voltage spike hits 600V. Yikes! Goodbye fried equipment.
Some guys that have used surge protectors in series have probably bragged about how it works and how they've never had a problem. But in reality, they just didn't have any voltage spikes bad enough to cause damage. Them saying "it works" is just an illusion. In the example above, maybe they had a few voltage spikes come through over the years that were all above 600V, so no harm, no foul. But if a 500V voltage spike came through, their equipment would have been fried. They were flying fat, dumb, and happy all those years AND just got lucky.
To summarize, two surge protectors in a series give you LESS PROTECTION, not more. And yes, just to be resolutely clear, if you get a whole house surge protector installed, you're already at ONE surge protector. I would not plug in any power strip with surge protection unless it was just an old-fashioned type with the lighted switch (they often have a reset button which a real surge protector NEVER has), essentially allowing for more plugs.
MY QUESTION: Is he right? I’m too uneducated to know.
SECOND QUESTION: Is it worth paying more for higher capacity, whole house protectors? It seems like the cheaper (say, 36 amp, like that shown here) protectors can more easily self-destruct when a really huge surge hits. So don’t they wind up costing more over the long run, especially if a guy like me will have to keep paying an electrician to come out and replace them? I'm looking at this, for example, though another video I watched states that it requires its own special breaker and I'm out of slots on my panel:
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B013WINMK6/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A2Q1LRYTXHYQ2K&psc=1
(“140,000 Amp of surge current capacity per phase”).
For that matter, how come manufacturers don’t make E-Z replace modules so I can simply flck my home’s main power switch off and then quickly change out the “blown” part like I would a light bulb? Is that just corporate greed, or has the tech simply not evolved enough to avoid this having to be a g-d major project every time a nasty summer electrical storm comes along?
@@jamesdesmond1301 Interesting, Unfortunately to the detriment of your buddies advice many devices already have a surge protector built into them anyway. This would be thumbing the nose of the device engineers themselves as the regular homeowner like myself has no power over the implementation of said equipment in devices.
That said the addition of an additional power strip between a whole house suppressor and a built-in wouldn't matter since there are already surge protectors running in series by higher design.
I've done what I've done based on mountains of advice including local power companies recommendations and while it technically might not make any difference it certainly isn't going to hurt in a measurable way at this point.
I mean the thing that was frying my computers was simply due to the power being cut and it corrupting my OS. That said the UPS's is hat stopped that, not the surge protectors. They never trip, for all I know they are expensive LED's designed to part me from my money, LOL. I really don't think there is anyone bragging about anything like this on the internet, that would be like bragging about foot hair, it just doesn't happen.
Simply put, passive aggressive, 3rd party internet expert advice in the contrary to my strategy is not going to make me lose sleep at night. I may be doing something overly redundant but that is the point. Ben asked what our own situation is and our strategy for it, I wrote down. It's that simple.
Loads of love teacher, you are a top top electrical engineer you know that?
Thank you for the knowledge you have to pass on to others. I learned a couple of things by watching this video. I would install a SPD at the indoor panels like you did. Reason in some jurisdiction you have to have them install it if outside your residence. That could be an issue. Also what about a 3ph panel would you do the same, as some shops have the power source? I like that they make different styles to fit recessed and other panels. Great video, thank you.
I have a house built in 1958 with two prong all over it. I added an office in back and an electrician friend of mine grounded all of those outlets within the office. Thankfully, there were two places left within the box. I have lost a refrigerator, a stove, and numerous other small items due to power surges. I am out of electrical places within the main box. So therefore I have purchased many APC units and have probably spent well over $1000 to protect Four desktops three laptops and nine computer screens as well as other equipment within my office. I didn’t think about contacting the insurance company concerning the 1958 Tappan oven that I had to completely rebuild. I took it out and into the driveway and washed it and shined it until it looked brand new. Placed it back within me cabinet it was in. Had to find a heating element for it. It was a gas stove. And I could only find one in the entire world and it was $320. My family kept saying get a new oven but I would’ve had to completely remodel, my kitchen and I done that and I loved the tappen..oven. So after buying that and reinstalling the oven, a friend of mine and I routed a copper wire to a place near the main electrical outside box box that we thought would go directly to the earth. So far so good. Now though I am completely out of possible space in my officeand need additional outlets. Thank you for your video and info. Very informative.
Thanks for the info Benjamin, you're a great teacher.
Oh...and thanks for *not* promoting the snake oil product 'EMP Shield', as quite a few un-scrupulous TH-camrs have done. Those who do that lack smarts and/or morals.
Very nice video. I will be installing a main panel surge protector. I had a lighting strike about 15 years ago. It hit a maple tree next to the house, blew the bark off of one side, jumped to a chain-link fence, then to a gutter downspout, then to a satellite dish, then down the coax cable to the satellite receiver, blew out the TV, then down a phone line back to the main phone block, which then fried my computer modem (AOL - LOL), and finally grounded through the phone grounding block outside the house. Very strange path, but that's what a lightning strike will do. I will be installing a main panel surge protector.
I have 3panels the Main panel has a big breaker on it surge protector friend of mine installed. I have two other panels and apparently lightning hit the water behind my house or something and blew out my water pump on my boat, which was hooked up to electrical outlet and the two outlets so therefore I am putting a protector on my other two boxes to cover my butt. Thank you for your information.
Dude this a video I’ve been wanting to see - Aaamazing
You are the man, Ben!
I have done a quite a bit of research into the components of type 3 surge protection devices. Benjamin, you are correct about the voltage ratings, this is the voltage the unit will start clamping the voltage. The rather high voltage ratings are often but not always a result of marketing greed. The most common type of component used in these devices are MOV's. Within the same size of component (14mm dia. for example) a 200v provides the tightest protection but has a Max energy rating of 57Joules, a 680v has a 130 Joules rating but would not hinder a 600v surge from hitting your electronics. The reason sadly is that for a tiny increase in cost and within the same available space in the device, using the 680v MOV's allows the manufacturer to print a higher joule rating on the box, which will fool most consumers into thinking they are buying better protection, when in fact the opposite is true. Generally, the better more costly units have lower voltage ratings. Some exceptions to this is where the MOV's are used in conjunction with a GDT,, but that's a whole different rabbit hole !
This is not my understanding. As they are "Varistor"s, they begin to shunt voltage at approximately 10% above rating, with resistance decreasing until the clamping voltage, at which point the overage is completely shunted to neutral/ground.
I've noticed when the surge comes in from an outside post light, outside flood light, or, in one case, a boat house, the whole house surge protector didn't seem to be as effective as hoped. Maybe the distance from the breaker controlling the post or the boat house was some distance from the protection device. In the future, I'm going to move those breakers close to the surge protector.
Hey Ben, Great video and thank you for all of your videos. I couldn't find any documentation stating the GE breaker lugs are rated for two wires each (like the QO). Where did you find out the GE terminations are rated for two? Thanks!
Good video. My house was hit by lightning years ago. Hit a tree 10' from the corner of the house . Jumped from the tree to the aluminum gutter downspout, then to the ground where it blew a 3' hole in the ground as it vaporized all the water in the drain pipe. Fried just about everything in the house electronic. Computers, router, modems, tvs, all gfcis, and multiple type 4 spds. Not sure if this would have saved it but I'm thinking of installing one.
I think I've seen most type 1 SPDs installed outside at the main disconnect or the meter but I guess you could install them at the main lugs. It's still technically the line side. I guess I need to get a type 2 for my place!
I have surge protector strips on all of my electronics in my apartment and where I have my computer equipment set up I also have an uninterruptible power supply with built in surge protection as well.
One afternoon there was a lightening strike next to my apartment that ended up affecting three of the buildings, 24 apartments. I found out later that everybody had all of the electrical devices (televisions, stereos, computers, etcetera) fried by the lightening strike, and I was the only one who had nothing damaged. I replaced all of my surge protection strips as soon as I could afterward to ensure I had good protection.
Surge protectors are cheap insurance.
just added a Eaton whole panel surge protector hopefully they work as good as they say they do
Excellent video, and thank you! Can you tell us about Surge Receptacles (Duplex)? I’ve been wondering if I should be using it for my kitchen refrigerator. Any thoughts?
Very good vid on important concept/product. And good, detailed demo with extra good, correct info.
Excellent video with tons of information!
I really need to install the one I bought earlier this year. The power company fired my stove computer. I ordered a new one but thanks to FJB and the supply chain issues I just had to buy a new stove. Then the computer showed up. Grr
You have the best information great job thanks 😎
Thanks for the link to the Square D Homeline breaker. I've been looking for that with no success.
No problem!
@@BenjaminSahlstrom See my note above. The Homeline dual function breakers are on National back order until at least March of 2023. Schneider won't honor a warranty on breakers bought on eBay or Amazon, and it's a crap shoot as to whether you're getting the real deal, or a flawed breaker.
Great video enjoyed it, do you have a video on replacing a sub panel. Thanks
I recently added a Siemens FS140 Whole House Surge Protector (140,000 A at
10.14.22
Nice video Ben. Question: I do not see the flush mount kit that you spoke about. My panel is mounted back in the wall. Thanks for taking the time to make it.
& lightning flash counter installation procedure.More power& god bless
Thanks for this great video!
Related question: I’m a homeowner unversed in this stuff but have an electrical engineer friend five States away who insists that whole house surge protectors are a must-have but do NOT double them up with those at-plug surge protector strips in which I have invested (currently I’m watching videos like this to try and figure out the best whole-house protector to buy, btw). Here’s what he emailed to me:
Although some people have been known to double up, two surge protectors in series DOUBLES the clamping voltage. Is that bad? ABSOLUTELY. The clamping voltage is the threshold for which all voltage spikes ABOVE that value get clamped (as in current is not allowed to flow -- it's STOPPED). Hence, clamping voltage protects your devices from voltage spikes above a certain value. The closer to 120 (without being too close), the better. So, a 300V clamping voltage is better than 400V. Use two surge protectors in series with 300V clamping voltage, and you're not protecting anything until a voltage spike hits 600V. Yikes! Goodbye fried equipment.
Some guys that have used surge protectors in series have probably bragged about how it works and how they've never had a problem. But in reality, they just didn't have any voltage spikes bad enough to cause damage. Them saying "it works" is just an illusion. In the example above, maybe they had a few voltage spikes come through over the years that were all above 600V, so no harm, no foul. But if a 500V voltage spike came through, their equipment would have been fried. They were flying fat, dumb, and happy all those years AND just got lucky.
To summarize, two surge protectors in a series give you LESS PROTECTION, not more. And yes, just to be resolutely clear, if you get a whole house surge protector installed, you're already at ONE surge protector. I would not plug in any power strip with surge protection unless it was just an old-fashioned type with the lighted switch (they often have a reset button which a real surge protector NEVER has), essentially allowing for more plugs.
MY QUESTION: Is he right? I’m too uneducated to know.
SECOND QUESTION: Is it worth paying more for higher capacity, whole house surge protectors? It seems like the cheaper (say, 36 amp, like that shown here) protectors can more easily self-destruct when a really huge surge hits. So don’t they wind up costing more over the long run, especially if a guy like me will have to keep paying an electrician to come out and replace them? Or, can the 140 amp protectors degrade just as fast from taking the same number of "hits" as the lower amp models?
I'm looking at this, for example, though another video I watched states that it requires its own special breaker and I'm out of slots on my panel:
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B013WINMK6/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A2Q1LRYTXHYQ2K&psc=1
(“140,000 Amp of surge current capacity per phase”).
For that matter, how come manufacturers don’t make E-Z replace modules so I can simply flck my home’s main power switch off and then quickly change out the “blown” part like I would a light bulb? Is that just corporate greed, or has the tech simply not evolved enough to avoid this having to be a g-d major project every time a nasty summer electrical storm comes along?
First Question: Unfortunately your Engineer friend is wrong. I'm also an electrical engineer and I would encourage your friend to dig into surge protection a bit further. The MOVs in an SPD are generally installed in parallel to achieve the rating of the SPD. Attaching an additional SPD will not change the clamping voltage of each device but it may change how current is distributed between them during a transient. Generally, the warnings about connecting one surge strip into another is related to overloading and fire hazard and not it's ability to provide surge protection. The best practice design philosophy of surge protection is based on multi-tier/cascade design. In other words, you should start with a Type 1/2 device at the service entrance and as you get further downstream, Type 3 and 4 devices should be installed at the downstream distribution or point of use/device level. The clamping voltages will generally be higher for the main entrance depending on the service voltage and VPR rating (e.g. 600/700V or higher) and will get smaller for each lower voltage rating (e.g. 300V+/- clamping for 120V, etc.)
Second Question: Engineer's typical answer is "it depends". The kA rating of a device is generally going to mean how robust it will be. Most lightning strike surge levels are far less than the SPD device ratings (Category A, B, and C , Less than 1kA to 10kA with the latter being low occurrence). The higher the kA rating of an SPD, generally the more low level surges it can withstand over time. I generally pair the kA rating of the SPD along with the capacity of the service. E.g. if I'm installing a single 200A service, I may only require an 80kA rating. If my service is 1200A or more, I'll usually put in a 240kA, etc unit to match the robust nature of the service. As I noted, the subpanels in this larger system will be designed with graduated kA ratings as I get further downstream. I feel that 50kA is just fine for a residential application. Hope that helps.
Thank you for sharing your expertise. After watching this video, I went to inspect my whole house surge protector, and found the unit is wired with the two lugs instead of how you wired yours. Should I worry? Thanks.
Also, on a different topic, about generator as backup power for homes, what do you think of using an rv generator (like Cummins onan) for home use. Since these units are boxed, they will be much quieter than those conventional types, right? Thanks again.
You should
mention that all recessed panels will not be allowed to have a type 1 surge protector. Because they have to be accessible or basically exposed.
There are many panels that are recessed in people's walls in kitchen bedrooms living rooms Etc. So they would have to go with a type 2 surge protection.
Great instructional video. One question though....can it be hooked to a larger double pole breaker within the main box rather than the 20 amp one you showed? My main panel is outside and after the 200 amp main breaker there are only 50 amp double pole breakers and no extra spots for another breaker. Thanks
This is my question too. I can't come up with a reason why the amp trip rating of a breaker would relate to a voltage surge.
Just had Eaton put in and use 50 amp breaker
Love it cause it showed there was more damage after small fire
Wire ached to stable
We also had fuse safety switch put in cause breakers didn't trip
Excellent video. Thanks for the info.
I just have a concern. Do we need a dedicated breaker for the power surge or we can add to to Any 2 pole breaker close to the line side
Súper good stuff tanks for sharing 🤔🤩😀🍀
Great Video. How long do I have to replace new power strip surge protector ? I owned one power strip Belking 3600 Joule ,I bought it 3 or 4 years ago , it power 2 computer and speaker desk set up . Thank you for sharing
Good job, Radar!
From my POW, SPD with additional ground wire is intended to use in downstream breaker panels, where N and G wires are independent. Because, a neutral wire also needs protection, and such SPD must have N-G protection, in addition to L1-G and L2-G protections. (Of course, L1-N and L2-N protections are mandatory). Protections from any of active wires (L1,L2, N) to G are useful in electronics and IT equipment.
Also, it may be useful to protect EV charging point (EVSE) by SPD to increase surge protection level for EV's onboard charging converter.
Additionally, the less resistance of each of local grounding systems (sets of grounding electrodes at each property's building) - the better surge protection level.
The L1-L2-N lines are protected using MOV's that provide a clamp to the surge. The N-G is protected with a gas discharge tube that essentially provides a 0 volt clamp between neutral and ground when fired. This is because the nominal N-G voltage IS zero.
@@SoundzRite I wonder if I installed my type 2 Eaton CHSPT2ULTRA correctly in my 52 year old GE split bus panel. The instructions state to install through a dedicated 50 A breaker. The top portion with the 2-pole breakers was full so I installed the surge protector through a 50 A 2-pole compact breaker in the lower section where all the 1-pole breakers are placed. The lower section is fed by a 60 A 2-pole breaker in the upper section. Maybe I should just put the L1 and L2 in the 50 A 2-pole breaker for the electric range in the upper section. Alternatively, I could install three compact breakers (30 A, 40 A, 50 A) in the left side upper. The sticker indicates that those would fit in place of the two full sized breakers there now (30 A for ele dryer, 40 A for A/C condensing unit).
My only surge protection are cheap power strips that may or may not do anything other than overload an outlet. So I rely on that, plus homeowners insurance and on disconnecting things when there is a severe thunderstorm warning and I see the lightning.
Recently replaced my circa 1978 panel with a 40 space GE panel. I used a GE surge protector that snaps into panel. I stalked in top left 2 spaces.
Nice!
I say god damn dude, that was super informative! Thanks! Also expensive, I have four panels on my property! Eek
can I install this on a 20A DP breaker that is installed just for this thing to connect to? I didn't have a surge strategy until your video gave me the idea!
awesome Information as always Thank you
So if the breaker were to trip, say because of a fault with the pump on that breaker you'd be left without protection?
I suppose that's why it's recommended to use a dedicated breaker.
I prefer the Siemens FS140 unit and purchased that one, it will go in my Square D, QO panel
Good evening Sir!!! Do you have a video of lightning arrester installation...
I have a question about the bonding screw. I have installed an off grid inverter to a breaker box. It's a separate breaker box from my main breaker box but nothing from the main breaker box is wired into the inverter breaker box. You could call it a sub panel but it is not connected to the main breaker box. But anyways my question is does the bonding screw need to be bonded on the ground and neutral when only a off grid inverter is wired up to the breaker box? I'm thinking it should be but I am not a certified electrician. I am just a homeowner and you are the expert and I'm sure you already know this answer. Thank you so much. I have learned so much from your channel and I am a real big fan. Keep up the good work.
Hey man the main panel he was working on is technically a subpanel. He should have isolated the neutrals and the grounds. Because the first means of Disconnect is outside near his electrical meter that's where the ground and neutral should have been bonded.
Very good explanation!
Helpful video just wish I saw it sooner my furnace got fried 😯
Also remember, these are one shot deals. If it actually stops a huge surge, then you will need to buy a new one.
☝
You are wrong. These can take many shots. How many depends on how big the surge is.
@@brussels13207 You are wrong, because That's exactly what I said. Oh, and those "many shots" need to be very small. Anything real surge and it will fry. It's simply the nature of the science and the device.
@@rustusandroid not the ones we sold. I don’t remember exact specs but as I remember them, a 20mm MOV would take 1 50,000 amps shot, maybe 50 10,000 shots. I direct hit just outside your house would give maybe 10,000 amps. We also made big ones for direct strikes, up to 100,000 amps. Very impressive to see them tested. We had test rig that could give 250,000 amp shots. Whole building would shake.
@@brussels13207 Give me the model or part number to this elusive device.
H.V.A.C. mechanic here . Went on no a/c call lightning strike in backyard hit utility pole went down jumped onto chain link fence traveled along fence to a/c condenser where it left the energized fence and blew a hole in refrigerant line old man next door saw the whole thing!!!
On the panel I have a Siemens 140 and an APC Surge Protector (numbers too small for my old eyes to read, and they are sideways) in addition to them I have High-Saturation Ferrite's attached to the incoming power, neutral, ground where; all my TV's, computers and such are an APC USB surge protectors, all other electrical devices have surged protection power strips, my HVAC equipment has surge protection attached to them. The only thing I haven't done yet is a Type 1 before the main panel.
very clear. thanks a lot
I have a whole house surge protector with a ground wire on it. I assumed it was because it gives it an extra outlet to ground. It may be pointless, but it doesn't hurt anything.
REALLY need one of these here in Nawth Florida, we have surges where the lights dim repeated times back to back, I'm told that our rural Co Op electrical has a special meter that can replace the original one that's for surges, BUT, I think it is a extra charge per month, is what you installed just as good as the different meter??
Good video for learning
Don't see a link to the trim kit for the ABB device?
Since this is a sub panel, would it not be a code violation to land your neutral on the ground bar since bonding should only occur at the service entrance or main panel?
Thank you so much
Good job
I’ve seen similar devices insist that you need a dedicated 20amp breaker. Is that baloney, or could they theoretically be installed just like this ABB one? The wiring schematic looks the same.
My mom's house had a strike near the house. The event wiped out: the whole house Generac Generator control panel and starter battery, Furnace control module for boiler, unprotected tube television, Garage door opener, fried LR TV HDMI input from satellite tv, Type 3 Surge protector for main Tv, and Type 3 surge protector for computer/wifi/sat TV router. The insurance claim was ~$5600. Everything with a surge protector survived and the surge protectors were replaced. Now I am thinking of a type 1-2 surge protector on the main panel which is why I am watching this video.
These protectors are good, but just your basic suppressor, they take the brunt of the surge, but let high enough volage through to damage your sensitive computerized devices. You MUST add a secondary protector at each location for each device, such as a Tripp Lite ISOBLOK2-0, etc., etc. These devices clamp the voltage lower and the SPEED of the clamping is faster. Instead of milliseconds a silicon avalanche protector works in nanoseconds. Tripp Lite has proven to me, as a telecommunications specialist, to be excellent. I have seen these take a hit, had visible black stains from its seams, and after replacing it, the attached equipment worked like new. Tripp Lite also replaces their surge damaged devices too (keep your receipts).
I would install a surge protector at the pole as well!
Question: Are Surge Protectors with a Ground wire proper with being installed in situations where there is an unbonded ground to neutral (such as in subpanels) or do the surge protectors with ground wiring have isolated ground and neutral wiring?
The surge protectors I use is manly the EATON ones because my supplier has them in stock. They are 4 wire . I have moved circuits to get protector in best spot. That QO type 2 only works in QO panels. I have done work and they had square D home line panel . I am in Boston NY . around hear I get a lot of CH panels some BR . all you have to do is match breaker to panel box. My brothers home has sermons panel . My home is off grid and still have surge protectors and UL inspected. Midnight solar surge units are used on PV lines. also a EMP can make a surge. can even come from the sun like a solar flair. it has happened before. took out west coast power grid in the past. every panel should have a surge protector. I worked on a home where they had lost a furnace due to a surge. direct wired 90% efficient . big repair bill . Electrician for 30 years
I have read that a large amount of surges are generated inside the home. For example from an AC/heat pump turning off/on, also a refrigerator, and possibly other devices. Likely much less of a surge than if there were a lightning strike in the area though.
I agree, type 3 surge protectors are worthwhile even if you have a good type 1 or type 2. Lightning is not the only source of transient voltage spikes from your mains though, so type 1 or type 2 are still a good investment, best incorporated with type 3 on all sensitive electronics.
Surges generated inside the home should not blow up equipment & start fires
- I lost a hard drive with a storm related surge
- I lost computer serial ports from storm surge
- I lost network switch ports from storm surge
- I lost internet routers from storm surge
- I lost stereo equipment from storm surge
- a friend’s outlet was smoking & caught fire with everything attached being blown up from a storm surge just a few weeks back
This is the stuff we have to seriously worry about
These small events cause damage over time. Lightning is what most people are talking about here but voltage spikes from inside the home are far more common and, over time, just as destructive.
I watched your videos on installing a generator plug in for my outside panel, gathered all the wiring, conduit, breaker, plug and everything I needed. Finally got to the day to do all this. Turn off the power, removed the cover and there in the spot where my generator breaker was to go, is a surge protector. Yikes. Can I move it down 1 slot because my disconnect bracket is geared for the generator breaker to be in the top right position. thanks for the help
Yes, it will not make that big a difference.
Type 1 should be installed only outdoors with large wires like AWG5. Some type 1 SPD have piercing terminals for attaching to overhead power line. Ground wire is dedicated for spark gap.
Your device is rated as type 1, but actually it has small wires and comes without spark gap to the ground. Your device will work properly only if the panel is connected to auxiliary power source like alternator. You should install type 1 in outdoor panel if you are using power from the utility company.
Incorrect. It is in fact rated as a type 1 in the documentation from GE.
I have a main panel with a spd on it. Can i add a spd on ac cb in this panel? My sub panel does not have a main cb, how should a spd be installed in sub ? TIA
I back-fed my load center from a generator with an interlock kit through a double pole, 50 amp breaker. Would the SPD install and function the same as you described in your video?