LOVE Chromium Oxide Green. Did a botanical painting using it mixed with Quin Magenta, amazing colour separation. It's an underrated pigment. Love that White Nights one!
I do botanical painting and use chrome oxide very often. The opacity is useful for layering lichens and moss over treetrunks. And the granulation adds realistic texture to plants. I've found it very useful for mixing too.
I do have the PG17 from White Nights and once used its opacity to cover some brush strokes that had spilled beyond their borders. I also mixed it with French Ultramarine PB29 to obtain a dull turquoise.
I have this one from White Nights and I use it for mixing muted greens with Nickel Azo yellow and Peryline Green, like for the leaves in the shadows, or when the green on the foliage is more like washed out green like bluish green.
I'll never forget buying this color in college (in Grumbacher Academy. It still rewets and paints perfectly today...) I was intrigued because it noted "opaque" on the label - I was utterly horrified when I swatched the color though. I liked neither the hue nor opacity. But I found something I painted with it back then, probably because I'd never used it in a painting and I was determined to. It felt plant-like, I combined it with blue and maybe indigo. I just looked it up in Handprint, and apparently it's the main pigment used for camoflauge. So, it makes sense that it's plant-like. He also calls it an "earth green." I'll post the whole entry in another comment for folks to see. I want to swatch mine out again because I feel like my old tube is sooo much more opaque than your samples here. Grumbacher Academy paint is way better than Cotman, IMO. My old ones seem to rewet amazingly, and are very shiny when dried. I bought a Grumbacher last year and it dried in the pan matte, cracked and fell right out. But it's a far, far better paint than Cotman is these days. I have no idea why they changed the binder so it doesn't dry well, though. But with glycerine, it should be fine.
i think this is the only grumbacher academy colour i have (courtesy of watercolour fairy) so i don't know how the brand/range behaves. that said, i do agree that cotman isn't so great. if grumbacher is anything like this PG17 i swatched, then i definitely agree it's a lot better than cotma.
When you mentioned thinking PG17 would be a good replacement for Sap Green, I remembered that MaimeriBlu's Sap Green is made with PG17. I don't use it; I just remember from one of Jenna Rainey's videos. :)
haha! XD grumbARcher... can't seem to say it right LOL. same here, some people gave some good suggestions that i'll try out to use this more as well :D
Ooh I love PG17 chrome oxide green, it's so funny I had just been talking about this color to a handmade paint maker 😄 I think either schmincke or rembrandt have the best pg17 that I've tried, theirs lay down super smooth and pigmented
oh really?! that's fascinating! i can see how those would lay down smooth as these ones i swatched were decently smooth, could only imagine better results with schmincke/rembrandt :D
I actually used this kinda of color when i still using my trio, not PG17 but ultramarine mix with cad. Yellow and the color is similar to PG17, but as time passed and i got more blue and yellow and even a green, i kinda find this color a bit useless. It’s just too dull for what subject i paint. I think holbein has a PG17 but they mixed it with PG23 and it’s a series A aswell so also quite affordable. It’s hard picking this color over other more preferred green like phthalo green, sap green, or even perylene green.
completely agree with what you said here. personally for me, i think PG17 is just not saturated as i would like so maybe that's why i dont reach for it as often as PG7
that's interesting! people say grumbacher is better than cotman. although this is the only grumbacher colour i have, if the range is anything like this, i definitely agree that cotman isn't as good at all!
I know that Schmincke recommend it for landscapes but never tried it myself before. It looks like a nice opaque green. I'm sure it's easy to mix a sap green color from it with a mid-tone yelloe or an indian yellow.
From Handprint: Chromium oxide green PG17 is a very lightfast, very opaque, heavily staining, dark valued, very dull yellow green pigment; about two dozen manufacturers offer it worldwide. The ASTM (1999) rates its lightfastness in watercolors as "excellent" (I), and it is perhaps the most durable green pigment known. Because of its durability and high reflectance in the near infrared range, which mimics the infrared reflectance of green plants, it has been the principal pigment in military camouflage paint. In watercolors PG17 undergoes a very large drying shift, darkening by 13% and losing saturation by 35%. It can be evocative in tints or mixtures but is obtrusively drab and lifeless when used full strength. The tinting strength of chromium oxide green is moderately high. The best mixing complements are dioxazine violet (PV23) or ultramarine violet (PV15). The average CIECAM J,a,b values for chromium oxide green (PG17) are: 35, -18, 16, with chroma of 24 (estimated hue purity of 21) and a hue angle of 139. This pigment is highly consistent across watercolor manufacturers. Winsor & Newton oxide of chromium is the bluest hue, darker than other paints; the Rembrandt is the yellowest, but these differences are small. As for the Holbein terre verte: whatever trace of green earth may actually be in it is entirely hidden under the chromium oxide hue. (For genuine terre verte pigments, see PG23.) - PG17 makes an interesting "green earth" to complement a red earth such as venetian red or a yellow earth such as yellow ochre. It is useful to subdue bright synthetic organic pigments, such as benzimida yellow or phthalo green, which temper its dullness and combine well with its fine powdery texture. Because it contains both blue violet and red reflectance, it has interesting mixing behavior with warm and cool colors. It is tricky to use, however, as it will overpower or gray almost any other paint, and tends to color shift noticeably or produce a clayey color texture as it dries: test mixtures on scrap paper first. I find it works best in dilute mixtures with yellow or green to make naturalistic, dull olive greens, and in warm mixtures where a touch of it effectively desaturates or cools reds and oranges.
Wait Shinhan is student grade? I thought it was a professional grade, like white Nights due to they are comparably price . Same goes to Mungyo. I like the white nights tho, seems like they have more pigment load. I can see its usefulness in landscape (mangrove or rainforest) or floral painting.
The White Nights version isn’t bad at all, actually. But the other two are meh. I never new that PG17 granulates. The versions I’ve seen were very flat and boring.
@@awatercolourist Interesting, I'm pretty sure I saw this before and would have thought it was PY 129 because it looks very much like it. I actually painted figs this year with PY129 and PV29. It's a perfect mix to depict them!
![Winsor & Newton Watercolor Dot Card [2022] - swatching all 109 colors](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/76x8_R_Cnnc/mqdefault.jpg)
![Winsor & Newton Watercolor Dot Card [2022] - swatching all 109 colors](/img/tr.png)
LOVE Chromium Oxide Green. Did a botanical painting using it mixed with Quin Magenta, amazing colour separation. It's an underrated pigment. Love that White Nights one!
quin magenta?! i never would've paired the two, i'll definitely need to try that, thank you!
I do botanical painting and use chrome oxide very often. The opacity is useful for layering lichens and moss over treetrunks. And the granulation adds realistic texture to plants. I've found it very useful for mixing too.
I do have the PG17 from White Nights and once used its opacity to cover some brush strokes that had spilled beyond their borders.
I also mixed it with French Ultramarine PB29 to obtain a dull turquoise.
OOOHH dull turquoise sounds beautifullll! i'll need to try that, thank you upendra!
I have this one from White Nights and I use it for mixing muted greens with Nickel Azo yellow and Peryline Green, like for the leaves in the shadows, or when the green on the foliage is more like washed out green like bluish green.
ooohh that's a really cool idea! i think i might need to try mixing this with more colours as you've mentioned, thank you so much Nikola!
I'll never forget buying this color in college (in Grumbacher Academy. It still rewets and paints perfectly today...) I was intrigued because it noted "opaque" on the label - I was utterly horrified when I swatched the color though. I liked neither the hue nor opacity. But I found something I painted with it back then, probably because I'd never used it in a painting and I was determined to. It felt plant-like, I combined it with blue and maybe indigo.
I just looked it up in Handprint, and apparently it's the main pigment used for camoflauge. So, it makes sense that it's plant-like. He also calls it an "earth green." I'll post the whole entry in another comment for folks to see.
I want to swatch mine out again because I feel like my old tube is sooo much more opaque than your samples here. Grumbacher Academy paint is way better than Cotman, IMO. My old ones seem to rewet amazingly, and are very shiny when dried. I bought a Grumbacher last year and it dried in the pan matte, cracked and fell right out. But it's a far, far better paint than Cotman is these days. I have no idea why they changed the binder so it doesn't dry well, though. But with glycerine, it should be fine.
i think this is the only grumbacher academy colour i have (courtesy of watercolour fairy) so i don't know how the brand/range behaves. that said, i do agree that cotman isn't so great. if grumbacher is anything like this PG17 i swatched, then i definitely agree it's a lot better than cotma.
There's not many single pigment green, i'm glad to see that one celbrated like this. I have a 20 old Windsor and Newton pan, i need to swatch it.
When you mentioned thinking PG17 would be a good replacement for Sap Green, I remembered that MaimeriBlu's Sap Green is made with PG17. I don't use it; I just remember from one of Jenna Rainey's videos. :)
oh do they? i'll need to check that out, thank you for mentioning that!
Maimeri Blu has both Sap Green and Hooker's Green on PG17. The latest being similar to Stonegroundpaint's Florentine Green.
Love this color have it from Qor and Schmincke.
Love the blooper at the end! Thank you, Have plenty of this color but tend to use other greens. I will make an effort to use it more. It is pretty.
haha! XD grumbARcher... can't seem to say it right LOL. same here, some people gave some good suggestions that i'll try out to use this more as well :D
Ooh I love PG17 chrome oxide green, it's so funny I had just been talking about this color to a handmade paint maker 😄 I think either schmincke or rembrandt have the best pg17 that I've tried, theirs lay down super smooth and pigmented
oh really?! that's fascinating! i can see how those would lay down smooth as these ones i swatched were decently smooth, could only imagine better results with schmincke/rembrandt :D
I actually used this kinda of color when i still using my trio, not PG17 but ultramarine mix with cad. Yellow and the color is similar to PG17, but as time passed and i got more blue and yellow and even a green, i kinda find this color a bit useless. It’s just too dull for what subject i paint. I think holbein has a PG17 but they mixed it with PG23 and it’s a series A aswell so also quite affordable. It’s hard picking this color over other more preferred green like phthalo green, sap green, or even perylene green.
completely agree with what you said here. personally for me, i think PG17 is just not saturated as i would like so maybe that's why i dont reach for it as often as PG7
I have the Grumbacher, it's one of the first wc paints I ever bought, and one of the few student grade paints I still use on occasion.
that's interesting! people say grumbacher is better than cotman. although this is the only grumbacher colour i have, if the range is anything like this, i definitely agree that cotman isn't as good at all!
I know that Schmincke recommend it for landscapes but never tried it myself before. It looks like a nice opaque green. I'm sure it's easy to mix a sap green color from it with a mid-tone yelloe or an indian yellow.
From Handprint:
Chromium oxide green PG17 is a very lightfast, very opaque, heavily staining, dark valued, very dull yellow green pigment; about two dozen manufacturers offer it worldwide. The ASTM (1999) rates its lightfastness in watercolors as "excellent" (I), and it is perhaps the most durable green pigment known. Because of its durability and high reflectance in the near infrared range, which mimics the infrared reflectance of green plants, it has been the principal pigment in military camouflage paint. In watercolors PG17 undergoes a very large drying shift, darkening by 13% and losing saturation by 35%. It can be evocative in tints or mixtures but is obtrusively drab and lifeless when used full strength. The tinting strength of chromium oxide green is moderately high. The best mixing complements are dioxazine violet (PV23) or ultramarine violet (PV15). The average CIECAM J,a,b values for chromium oxide green (PG17) are: 35, -18, 16, with chroma of 24 (estimated hue purity of 21) and a hue angle of 139.
This pigment is highly consistent across watercolor manufacturers. Winsor & Newton oxide of chromium is the bluest hue, darker than other paints; the Rembrandt is the yellowest, but these differences are small. As for the Holbein terre verte: whatever trace of green earth may actually be in it is entirely hidden under the chromium oxide hue. (For genuine terre verte pigments, see PG23.) - PG17 makes an interesting "green earth" to complement a red earth such as venetian red or a yellow earth such as yellow ochre. It is useful to subdue bright synthetic organic pigments, such as benzimida yellow or phthalo green, which temper its dullness and combine well with its fine powdery texture. Because it contains both blue violet and red reflectance, it has interesting mixing behavior with warm and cool colors. It is tricky to use, however, as it will overpower or gray almost any other paint, and tends to color shift noticeably or produce a clayey color texture as it dries: test mixtures on scrap paper first. I find it works best in dilute mixtures with yellow or green to make naturalistic, dull olive greens, and in warm mixtures where a touch of it effectively desaturates or cools reds and oranges.
Wait Shinhan is student grade? I thought it was a professional grade, like white Nights due to they are comparably price . Same goes to Mungyo. I like the white nights tho, seems like they have more pigment load. I can see its usefulness in landscape (mangrove or rainforest) or floral painting.
My understanding is that Shinhan PWC is professional and Shinhan Professional is the student grade. It's very confusing due to the names.
Shinhan PWC = artist grade. Shinhan Professional = student grade. the tube shown in this video is shinhan profession, which is student grade.
Look nice on its own even the WN's one. Not my favorite pigment though. Can't succeed to have good mixes with it.
same here~ i think the opacity puts me off the mixes but we shall see, i might try some more mixes later.
The White Nights version isn’t bad at all, actually. But the other two are meh. I never new that PG17 granulates. The versions I’ve seen were very flat and boring.
yep, the ones that granulate are more interesting than those that don't granulate as much
First!
Where’s Upendra?
Oh no! You beat me to it. Here's your medal 🏅
🥇
Boy oh boy! Two medals from two different people 😃. Thank you 🥹
@@monsoon_magic2874 Hi Upendra! I hope you are well 👋🏼
PG17 is boring. Booooo 😠👎
But A Gallo has a very beautiful mix made with this pigment. It’s their Fig Green 🙂
Full disclosure, I’ve never used PG17 😂
Stoneground Co's Florentine green PG 17 is also beautiful.
@@monsoon_magic2874 Thanks for letting us know.
@@awatercolourist Interesting, I'm pretty sure I saw this before and would have thought it was PY 129 because it looks very much like it. I actually painted figs this year with PY129 and PV29. It's a perfect mix to depict them!