for me without a doubt it is the latter, because note how Gwyndolin's fight is not called "Gwyndolin the Dark moon" after his own covenant, it is called "Gwyndolin, the dark sun". that is a clear rejection of the female association that has been forced upon him, because he sees himself as shadow to the sun that is his father, but a sun nonetheless.
Also, Yorshka, the only lose friend of Gwyndolin’s that we know of, refers to him as “he” despite him presumably being raised as a “she” implying that’s what he prefers.
I think Gwyndolin being a dude and the whole "raised as a daughter because moon" thing being forced onto him by religious traditions is the interpretation that the game gives you most evidence for.
Didn't gwyn say he found his lack of masculinity repulsive or something like that. Pretty sure this theory is the most true to lore as he eventually leaves behind the reversal ring in ds3
it feels to me more like he was shunned by his family, the gods saw that they could finally have their moon goddess, a strong connection with the silvery night sun, and when they saw she was a he, they decided they couldn't have that and forced him into a role he wasn't made for. they were so close-minded that a girl AND ONLY A GIRL could ever be the moon goddess, and if it meant raising their son a daughter, so be it. the fact that Gwyndolin portrays his sister as the goddess of sunlight feels to me like a middle finger to his dad, an act of protest against the strict gender roles that oppressed him, and maybe others around him, who knows.
@@stinkmonger In the first game, yes. In the third game, the tomb lies abandoned. Also, the most important item in there is the reversal ring, which forces whoever wears it to make movements like the opposite sex. It also states quite explicitly that Gwyndolin was "sullen" and "brooding" while he wore it. Also, Yorshka, who is closest to him, refers to him as brother, and he openly rules Anor Londo. He may not hate his father, but he has healed, and he has surpassed his father's antiquated rules. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth to assume that Gwyn's decision to raise a boy as a daughter based on an affinity with sorcery is the right one. When Gwyndolin is freed and has had time to deprogram himself, he calls himself male. There's not really anything else to say.
@@watchfulwanderer6443 Just remember that in the third game he wasn't at the tomb just because he was trapped by Sullyvan first, and then eaten by Aldritch. Also, if he started to hate the father after the first game, then the White Way wouldn't even exist as it was.
I never understood the idea that they saw Gwyndolin and went "You're associated with the moon therefor you are being forced to be a girl", given the fact that uhh... Gwynevere is still aligned with the sun while being overtly feminine. The two lines of logic do not add up, as such Gwyndolin's was voluntary to me.
In myth of the minotaur Theseus is viewed as a hero, slaying a rampaging monster, but when you look at it the other way, Minotaur was born like this, it's a child locked away for being born "wrong" and then brutally murdered by a hired killer
@@RaelagDidEverythingRight The Minotaur did get a bunch of sacrifices. He killed all of them. Theseus is merely the first to kill it instead. But yea, the real villain is Minos. Never got how he became Judge of the dead.
I interpret it like I did one body switching anime where the guy was the only one and was emotionally manipulated by the people around him, as he was more “feminine than the girl” and the only reason he stayed a girl was because the guy he loved, apparently if they switched bodies back love wasn’t romantic anymore ((he didn’t switch with his love interest)) It’s not empowering when they force you to switch genders
It's all Gwyn's fault. Practically a lot of the events in Dark Souls as well as the lore in the background is stemming from Gwyn's own selfishness and hatred over even the most natural of things.
Later in DS3, Yorshka refers to him as "brother", so I think it's more of a latter case, where being a woman was forced onto him. With Gwyn dead, he is no longer has to conform to a female role.
In Japanese culture I believe gender roles are very strictly enforced and one of the results of this in Japanese media is the existence of the trope "born x raised as x". From my personal experience consuming Japanese media, this rarely means they transition genders but more like taking the role of said gender. An example of this would be Naoto from Persona 4, who is explicitly a female but took an the gender role of a male so she could be taken more seriously as a detective. So imo it's more of a Japanese culture thing when it comes to gender roles. So my interpretation is that Gwyndolin is a male who was raised to take the gender role of a female instead of the gender identity of a female.
@@starhammer5247 not really what was intended, it’s just a religious thing of the game, the moon is female and her servant must be, gender discussions are not part of the game
I also like to think she is the real firstborn, but due to her deformities, raising her as a woman also meant that she couldn't be a ruler, thus not giving anor Londo a "deformed" monarch
@@chumi269 The thing is, i dont think thats the case because otherwise we would have some form to know. even nameless king, someone who was erased from history, we knew a bit of him in DS1. If we go that route though, its easy to see its more that gwyndolin have some sort of dragon blood. Snakes on dark souls are a connection to them.
I've always found the latter to be more accurate. The gods of dark souls are not particularly known for their flexibility. If a child is born with all the aspects traditionally associated with a woman, I have little doubt that that is the role they would be made to play regardless of what they actually want.
Maaaan gwyndolin was always one of my favourite bosses in DS1, the fight's a shame but the lore is so juicy. To me, Gwyndolin was always a boy forced to be a girl by the dogma of their father. There was never any love for gwyndolin, nor did they ever get the choice to express themselves properly. Gwyndolin would be a woman and that was final. None could ever argue against gwyn so the child just went along with it as "father knew best". God I love dark souls so much.
I'm 90% sure that Gwyndolin is a he. He was born under a symbol of feminine magic, and as such, to maintain appearances, the family spread the news of a "goddess of the moon" in the family, but they didn't really seem to "force" him into the role. Behind him we can find a ring that changes the gendered animations of the character, so the family did design some magic that allowed him to appear of the other gender, but the fact that *he* didn't drop it makes me think he was more comfortable with the gender he was born with (cis) or didn't care enough for it. Also, the chamberwe find him in wasn't really the basement where things are thrown to be forgotten, that's the basement behind the illusory walls in the fireplace in the main palace. We find him in Gwyn's symbolic tomb, where he mourns his father and tries to lead the last shreds of the kingdom through his illusion of Gwynevere. Gender aside, Gwyndolin is probably THE most interesting and important character in the entire series. Tracing family ties, it's likely that he's the son of Gwyn and Priscilla (who is, in turn, daughter of Seath and Velka). That would make him the most complete being there can be in the Souls lore: Gwyn's Sunlight, Velka's Humanity and Occult powers, Seath's Dragon heritage and natural Moon magic.
I do have an issue with the first thing you said. Literally ALL Dark Souls gods are manipulative, duplicitous, behind-the-scenes schemers. The only thing you mentioned unique to Gwyndolin is snake tentacled, and even then… Seath the Scaleless also is a manipulative, duplicitous, behind-the-scenes schemer with tentacles.
On the contrary, Gwyndolin’s are the only machinations seen as benevolent and non-selfish. Seath did it because he is a disgusting mortal pervert. Gwyn wanted to maintain his status quo at the cost of the world. The Witch of Izalith wanted power. Gwyndolin just wants to protect their home and family so keeps up a ruse for everyone to interact with instead.
Gwyndolyn seems to me more of the idea of a person who had an identity stripped away due to what the ruling power in the family believed, his father is lord of light and sun but he has power of the moon,the shame that could bring forces him to be taken as a daughter. In that case they are taking away his agency as rightfully heir to the throne and keeping his true place in the kingdom a secret, I think it’s that his being the dark sun king shows he hates what he was forced to be. In the sense of losing what he was supposed to be because of others beliefs
@@king-of-the-hill7741 even if a person is a man or woman, Them is still just a general term for people. Since its not canonicly known wether they identify as man or woman, i use they. Much Like i would with any Other person i dont know The Gender of
The latter interpretation has always seemed to me like the intended one, plus it falls squarely in the realm of shitty things Gwyn would do to maintain his power.
I have to admit that my gut reaction was always to go for a "the parents were probably jerks" simply because the gods in these kind of games are usually jerks. That said I wouldn't rule out that that might come from some sort of transphobic perception of "wow, it must be awful for a boy to be raised as a girl, that sounds very traumatic" (my father is old enough to be raised in "young children were put into the older children's clothes regardless of gender because poverty" times and he remembers disliking it). I guess one could read Gwyndolin creating the princess illusion as him being into it/being in touch with that side and the advantages of that side.
Gwyn _(Gwyndolin's dad)_ is absolutely a jerk pretty much no matter how you slice it, narcissistically naming all his children after himself then proceeding to use them all as tools & objects is one of the LESS horrible things he does in the backstory of the series, forcing one of his cis male kids to live in a gender identity that doesn't align with him is absolutely in character. _(and therefore what I personally believe to be the case. I don't read Gwyndolin as someone who really was mtf trans)_ He has arguably committed multiple acts of genocide
I don’t think it’s some sort of transphobic given there’s in game evidence that they definitely did not to be a woman given the description of the reversal ring. It’s actually pretty positive line of thinking, it does suck to be forced to preform as a gender you aren’t.
as a trans woman, it is awful to be raised as a gender that isn't what you identify as I was raised as a boy, and it literally made me suicidal until I realized that I am, in fact, a woman I'm in a much better mental place after coming out and starting my transition.
The thing about souls lore is that it's mostly speculative, there's facts but how these facts are interpreted are different. And the center of souls lore is Gwyn. What you think of Gwyn will define the souls lore, if you believe Gwyn to be the lying God that chained humanity to the light, fearing his age's end. It's likely you'll believe that Gwyn simply used his children as tools, the Nameless King (probably) for battle, Gwynevere as a symbol and Filianore as a trap for the pygmies. Gwyndolin would simply be used to maintain illusions and to trick others to maintain the age of fire. But if you believe Gwyn attempts to maintain the age of fire is to stop the mad and chaotic abyss. His firstborn was a traitor who abandoned the gods for the dragons, Gwynevere given to the people to sooth them as an act of kindness for man and Filianore a sign of trust and a reward to the Pygmies. His children serve the age of fire or were victims of Gwyn's fear of the age of darkness depending on what you believe about Gwyn
Gwyn's actions directly caused the Dark to become the threat it is. He erased the Pygmy's contributions to the war from history, and branded them with the seal of fire to keep them from using their powers. Gwyn's actions also doomed the world to a slow and wretched stagnation. That's the main point of the games, that Gwyn's decision was a mistake.
@@watchfulwanderer6443 I mean I agree and acknowledge that the popular consensus is that Gwyn is a selfish bastard but I have seen people defend Gwyn and his actions.
@@watchfulwanderer6443 the main point of the games is that Gwyn's choices don't matter, nor anyone else's. In the end, dark will come, all anyone can do is look to the future and hope it will be better than living in a rotting world.
@@Wyrm3 The issue with the idea that "Gwyn's choices don't matter" is that the only reason why basically any of the bad things that happened in the game happened are because, at least in part, of Gwyn. The Darksign: the entire curse of undeath is because he had the pygmies and their descendants branded to seal away their powers, even though the pygmies worshiped the gods. Because of this, no humans were able to control their fragment of the Dark Soul. This caused Manus to be an issue, because the only reason why his grave was disturbed is because normal humans had their abilities sealed away, giving Kaathe and opening to manipulate. Additionally, because humans branded with the Dark Sign are incapable of controlling the dark, literally no one was around to keep Manus from taking control of the Abyss entirely, to keep their mind and not be instantly overtaken by their own soul. Also, because humans can't control the dark normally, it means that those who are given such powers, like the Darkwraiths, can't be contested and must be sealed away. The only reason why the Dark is a threat is because Gwyn made it that way, by sealing it away and preventing anyone from knowing about, preventing anyone from maybe stopping all the bad shit that happens. The First Flame: the world is rotting away, becoming worse and worse without recource, because Gwyn feared what would happen if the First Flame stopped burning, feared what the Age of Dark would bring. He condemned the world to a slow, horrible death because of his own inability to handle the dark being in power. The stagnation of the world is damaging it, contorting space and time in increasingly destructive ways, starting off small, but ending the entire world being clustered around a single, dying flame, and everything else being a field of ash. The Age of Dark that happens in the DS1 ending might not be pleasant (we don't know what it entails, given that the strength of the Darksign is tied to the First Flame it might have given humans access to their powers again), but it certainly wouldn't be as bad as "literally the entire world is a field of ash except for one small part, and that one part is also really lifeless and desolate". We don't know what would happen without Gwyn's paranoia leading him to seal away the Dark Soul and create a tradition of fire-linking, but we know that both those decisions lead to bad things happening pretty quickly, and worse things happening later down the line. The Abyss being a threat is his fault, the curse of undeath is his fault, the stagnation and distortion of the world is his fault. It's only a "rotting world" because of Gwyn, and the dark coming is only an arguably bad thing because Gwyn prevented the people in charge of the Dark from using their powers.
Gwyndolin is a "he" both "biologically" and "mentally" everyone refers to him as a he. For his younger sister Yorshka, who was very close to him, always refers to him as a "brother". (Yorshka only appears in DkS 3 however)
Much more of Gwyndolin made sense to me upon playing DS3 and learning of Gwyn’s firstborn son, a traitor to his father who sided with dragons over family and was thus exiled and stricken from all recorded history. When Gwyn had a second son, the trauma from his first informed his decision to gaslight himself into denying that he had any sons at all. _”This is not a son who may usurp me, this is my loyal daughter, Gwyndolin.”_ - so to speak. Another way of putting it is - _”You may_ never _be a son who usurps me, and I’ll make certain of it.”_
I always saw womanhood as something forced upon Gwyndolin rather than being something Gwyndolin accepted. Considering what else goes on with that family it just seems more in character for Gwyn to force his children into roles they might not be comfortable with rather than for this to be an empowering thing.
I’ve always interpreted the story as such: >Gwyndolin is born a male >new baby has strong affinity with the moon >traditionally only females have strong affinities to the moon >To save face, Gwyndolin is raised as a female as to not go against any established tradition and religions
@@HellDub33 I mean biology and neurology agree with me but I’m well aware you wouldn’t put fourth the effort to read them or listen to my points. I’ve tried having mature discussions with transphobes but they never even try to listen so have a nice day
@@Fairy_Teeth How is he a transphobe? It's literally a fact, you can change your gender and call yourself a girl but it doesn't change your sex, that's what he was saying, there's literally nothing transphobic about that. Also, I don't think you know how biology works lol..
@@Fairy_Teeth what they're saying isn't transphobic they're saying that if someone is male but raised as female not by their own choice, they're likely cool with being called female out of convenience but are ultimately still a guy. transness is a voluntary (or vital, depending on your view of things) process whereas mistaken identity is not and therefore should not influence pronouns
@@Dear_Amnesia there’s a difference between how a male and female brain develop and sometimes one brain will develop in the others body, that’s part of biology that’s what I was referring too
I know I'm a bit late to the discussion but I think this whole thing is more sbout gender roles than gender identity. Another comment mentioned that a person being assigned a role typically associated with the opposite gender is a common trope in japanese media. I also don't really think Miyazaki had transgender people in mind when coming up with Gwyndolin. My interpretation is that Gwyndolin was born a boy, but raised with female gender roles due to his association with the moon and magic. This idea of him being a man is supported by Yorshka referring to him as older brother and using he/him pronouns for Gwyndolin in Dark Souls 3. Obviously however you couldn't have known this as you haven't played DS3 yet (iirc).
I may get hate for this, but I think calling Gwynndalyn a trans character is really bad. They never state themselves as female, and the lore states they were FORCED to present female. It’s a GROOMED male child who grew up unloved and abused, and now in the absence of the abuser they’re trying to still follow and abide by the abusers will in a sick Stockholm syndrome scenario. Celebrating them as a trans character is a REALLY bad trans representation.
I always saw Gwyndolin as a manipulator out of necessity. He has learned to do this because that was what he had to do in order to survive, in order to be acknowledged in any way. He keeps Anor Londo running on a lie, the same lie he was born to. The same lie that his father started.
I never really thought that much into the topic because I thought it was pretty cut and dry. Gwyndolin was born a boy and himself along with his other siblings consider himself as male but his father seeing his affinity with moon magic essentially forced him to act as a princess and raised him as such. Gwyndolin never agreed with this and like with most stuff in Dark Souls lore Gwyn was just being a dick. I personally doubt from soft intended there to be any trans implications and instead made Gwyndolin another example of how bad Gwyn really was.
Gwyndolin is tragic. My reasoning is that not only was he raised as a girl just because of his natural talent but the fact he is only honored in secret and hidden by his family. Maybe it's all something he could've wanted for himself but we'll never know because his family made the choice for him and he grew up molded by their wants. It's even worse if you consider that he accepted the role they made for him just so he can be accepted and possibly loved by them. Which returns us to him being hidden away and alone. It's like watching a child who wants love doing everything for their parents approval. The tragedy in that? He's just affirming his place that they made for him. It's like watching him tie a noose around his neck because *my family made it for me*.
This is pretty much the way I see it as well. It's implied that Gwyndolin does idolise his father despite how awful Gwyn was to him. A lot of his character is, Dark Souls being ambigious and leaving lots of things to speculation and interpretation, but from those interpretations, it's likely he had terrible self image, was considered a disappointment (since they wanted a moon _goddess_ not a moon _god_ , and also that he seeked approval from his family, something that we know he must have not gotten because there are no statues of him in Anor Londo. He's quite tragic. If I could, I'd give him a hug and some reassurance.
I kinda lean towards trans fem especially because its my silly head canon that Gwyndolin is Yorshka post transition with the gwyndolin seen in Aldritch just being another illusion. Also “hiding away from anyone to conceal your true form and only interact with people in a form of an OC you made is kinda a mood” is something that I kinda relate to. Although knowing Gwyn I kinda feel like the trans masc read has more supporting it with less out there speculation. I do like the idea of them working with seeth to transition (moonlight butterflies do share a theme with gwyndolin and the sneks are definitely associated with seeth and seeth is also clearly seeking a transition of soughts) but that kinda turns the narrative in a direction that I can see people finding issues with.
Gwyndolin is a rather interesting topic for me, as I've always seen him/her, as commentary on the very notion of forced gender roles by way of gender fluidity. In all honesty it easy to associate the usage of snakes and illusions as deceitful but the usage of such things could also be interpreted in a positive sense. On the notions of illusion and deception Loki the Norse god is a entity that embraces the notion of gender fluidity given some of their antics in the Eddas. As for the usage of snakes themselves in Greek mythology Tiresias an individual who became a woman by striking a snake and then back into a man by striking another could also be used to express another positive representation of gender fluidity.
To be fair, due to a mistranslation, outside of Japan there has been a misinterpretation of who Gwyndolin is. Priscilla (in Japanese) is described as the illegitimate daughter of Seath and the most probable mother is Velka (goddess with a dark soul), since she has both the powers of humanity and moon sorcery. Gwindolin has the power of the dark soul, moon magic and miracles, so the most probable parents are Gwyn and Priscilla (probably the only reason Priscilla is alive). Gwyndolin was forced to wear a ring that turned him partially female (the ring can be found close to his father's grave in DSIII), so he would never be able to inherit the throne, for Gwyn he was a monstrosity like his mother, only good to be used for his power.
I think it depends on how you look at it. If you take it that Gwyn raised them like a daughter because they identified more with the moon and had a closer connection to the moon, seeing them as more a woman than a man. But that's only if you look at it from the positive perspective of Gwyn being a father that really/actually cared for his children. I'm not saying he didn't at all, but based on the lore and events of the games, Gwyn, if anything, used his children as proxxys for his own motives. He basically trapped/tricked Gwyndolin to be his eternal guardian of Anor London and give off the illusion that the Gods are still in control/power. Along with that, he banished his first born and erased him from the annals of history, so that he would be forgotten. That and he imprisoned his granddaughter because she was a child born partially from a dragon. That's just the big obvious stuff. As the series goes on, it becomes more and more clear how badly Gwyn not only fucked over his children but the world itself. The ds3 dlc really goes deep into this. The basic point I'm making is that based on evidence from throughout the series, Gwyn has been characterized and presented as someone, that at the least bad, was someone that over time, as his age was ending, he became more scared for and obsessed with making sure his age of Fire would never end and the gods would always stay in power. To the point that he was willing to take whatever fucked up measures, regardless of the pain, suffering and detriment it may and/or will cause to his fellow gods, his own children/family, and the world at large. After a certain point, Gwyn was only tinking of himself, his own insecurities and fears. All the more fitting that when we find him protecting/being the last stand in defense of the Flame, he has already gone completely hollow. A husk of the God that once was, that can only do and knows one thing. To defend the flame with whatever strength it/he has left. Because of all this, It's very hard for me at least to agree with the interpretation of Gwyndolin being a trans women because it's under the impression that it happened the way it did was because Gwyn was being a supportive/caring father. But taking into account everything else about him/Gwyn, this scenario is highly unlikely to me and makes more sense as something he forced onto Gwyndolin/Gwyn forced to Gwyndolin to be raised as and treated/seen as a female, because of Gwyndolin's association and deep connection with the moon which in this universe and in many cultures and religions, is seen as feminant/the mark of a woman. The only people that would know other wise would be those in the royal family. But fine, maybe that's just me missing a key perspective here. If anyone would like to correct me or rebuttal, I'd gladly appreciate it. Again, I have know problem with Gwyndolin being trans. If there is a way to make it make sense or if from software wants to make a proper trans character, I'm all for it. I'm just saying that from the evidence that is provided from the games, and Gwyndolin and their relationship with Gwyn, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me that they are trans. There are defenetly alot of gender related themes here that can apply to trans people just as much as it can apply to any non gender conforming person, either it be through how you/they identify internally or through them envibing traits and maybe even visual aesthetics/an outward appearance that are not usually/normally associated with people that either identify as or are born as that gender.
@@thefanguy639 proof Gwyn Literally Gwyn is a piece of shit. Had a son who like dragons so he erased him from history. Had a daughter with "great chest" and she's incharge. Then has a son and makes him the moon goddess because they needed moon goddess because moon goddess eas needed for Gwyn's sun cult. Alot of the people are just victims of Gwyn. including his own family.
@@CasualREDACTED I know jack about the dark souls lore so please elaborate on the "great chest" thing because my dumb 17 year old brain can think of one thing and I'm pretty sure you know what it is
@@thefanguy639 gwynevere had big boobies and that was literally the message put I front of her room before meeting her. FromSoft knew how to make great content
For every boss (except for Sif, Priscilla and Quelaag) You kill in Dark Souls 1 is either an act of Euthanasia (Ceaseless Discharge) or an act of stopping the Bull Dung cycle of keeping the fire alive. I do not regret on keeping the fire alive, despite knowing the "chosen" undead is just a horse crap of lies for the reason that i know someone is willing to stop the cycle. And to say i just had enough of the things i have gone through (from ending Artorias, Killing Sif *yes. I did Save Princess Dusk Twice before defeating Sif*, to leaving Priscilla alone in the painted world.) Lordran.... So my way of ending my life as an undead is through the Fire.
I believe Gwyndolin being born as a "he" and being raised as a woman due to religious reasons is the interpretation most supported by the lore. Gwyndolin refers to himself as "the black sun", so does his pact, which implies he sees himself as a shadow of his father, rather than having an aparent connection to the moon. Also, the dragon girl we find locked up in a tower in ds3, who was aparently raised by Gwyndolin or was at least friends with him, refers to him as a "he" or as her "brother" if i'm not mistaken. I haven't played the games in a long time though so i might have missed something.
Since people are going to be asking about it, I censor the word "trap" in this short, because when used to refer to a trans person, it has a very ugly history. Basically, in many places it used to be legal to literally murder trans people if you claimed that you were so scared by their trans status that it made you temporarily insane (you can google "gay panic defense" and "trans panic defense" if you want sources and details, it's ugly stuff). Trans people also generally don't like being referred to in a way that implies they're trying to trick people or "trap" straight people into sexual or romantic situations, because it implies that they are predatory by nature, and aren't the gender they say they are. There seems to be a process of reclamation, or a changing of the word's meaning, happening right now in various online communities. Some trans people have started claiming the word and using it about themselves, and you'll see it used casually in plenty of places on the internet. There are a lot of people who will be surprised to hear the term has a bigoted history, and if you're one of them, hey, now you know. It's not any of my business to take sides on whether the word can or should be reclaimed - the word is still considered a slur by a lot of people, and as such I won't use it casually in my videos.
I prefer the second understanding based on dark souls 3 when his sister refers to him as brother and not sister which i would assume she would know the correct pronoun considering they seem close.
I'm completely behind eliminating the word use if it helps in any way with the progress of trans rights. I removed it from my vocabulary years ago, but I do think that some of the points are a bit conflated. It sounds like a lot of what you brought up is from Contrapoints video. I think she makes a lot of points that I agree with, but I do think that directly tying term to the awful history of trans rights isn't exactly 1 to 1. The origin doesn't come from those cases, it comes from a trope in anime where a self identified male character looks so much like a woman, that it "tricks" the protag/audience insert to fall for them before they realize they aren't a woman. It's dumb and still not the best in terms of approaching conversations about gender, but its the intent for the use of the word. The problem was that people started using it like a shotgun and applying it to trans woman as well. Even trans woman on 4chan would use it. Bailey Jay, now a trans pornstar, self identified as the term for years. Yes, the conflation of the term and the history of violence to trans folk all over is the scary part, but I dont think the word used correctly should inherently be offensive. If I call a Native American and Indian, that's obviously not ok. But if I describe someone from India that way, no problem. If we just said, stop using the term cause it's offensive, use South East Asian instead if someone is from India, it'd technically still be accurate, but it wouldn't 100% convey the information I'm trying to dictate, you know? I only use femboy now, but I still think there's a class of character that the term suits better. I think that given Gwyndolyn is only ever referred to as he/Him, I think it would apply to him as well.
I find it tricky when approaching the use of "tr**" as a slur given when ds1 was released. I personally still think the word has valid uses outside being a slur, but I cede the use completely due to the fact that it's being misused. The term initially comes from an archetype of anime characters who identify as male, but are designed in a way to look effeminate to the point of being confused for female. Generally that "tricks" the protagonist into attraction for the character, until they identify themselves as male. There's still some icky parts to the connotation, but it's also anime, and I think having a term to describe the archetype makes sense. I think you can even make a similar point for things like femboys or such, where they may identify as male but have self identified straight men feeling a certain sort of way. The problem is that it began to be used to describe trans woman as well, which is clearly not ok. The archetype still exists, and I think that Gwyndolyn is actually a valid example of it. The reading you have is valid, but literally the only pronouns used afaik are he/him, so I dont feel comfortable assigning others. I think looking down on player use of it is a bit unfair because it was during a time when the term wasn't seen as a slur.
While I agree the term isn't always used as a slur, and I love femboys in general, I think both the anime community and gamers have had a really rough history with trans-acceptance. Even now some CLEARLY trans characters in anime get routinely called the t word, and likewise people misuse that word as a slur. I don't think we can really know what each person leaving that message meant, but I find it hard to believe that, at least some people, didn't meant in a derogatory manner.
@@hikarikouno Personally I think its an innocent word than has been misused (I've discussed this with a trans friend and they're the one that gave me this interpretation). The T word (saying like this under threat of comment deletion) is used for (usually) male characters who present as the opposite gender in the way they dress but do not have dysphoria. They still identify as their biological gender because of this and as such as not trans. The term can be problematic, obviously, but its more of how the word is used. Calling Astolfo the T word isn't offensive, its a fact. Calling someone who is actually trans the T word is either a misunderstanding or malicious. However the first can be fixed with educating the person who said the word, and the second can be fixed by telling them to go fuck themselves.
Well the t word actually originates even before those kinds of characters were popular. It was used to imply that trans people , especially trans women , only "played the part" or were "just crossdressing" to trick the opposite gender into doing the devil's tango... It's very much so still a slur and I personally think any usage of that word is kind of disgusting
The chamber Gwyndolin is in isn’t a basement the family is hiding him in. Its her Father’s tomb, which shows that even with all of Gwyn’s decisions, Gwyndolin was faithful to upkeep his Age of Fire going even after his death. She even keeps an illusion up all over Anor Londo including her own sister, she controls what it appears like, therefore she humbly doesnt make statues of herself but of the people she praises, like Gwyn and Gwynevere
Gwyndolin is the only one who has carried out his father's wish to the end. He/she has seen the age of fire come to an end countless times and, in one way or another, he/she has always managed to keep the age of light going. He /she has always been there to defend what his father built. People always say: "Praise the sun" but, it is thanks to Gwyndolin that all this continues to exist, without the dark sun, there would be no sun to pray.
i dont actually play thebgame and domt know anything about the lore, but i interpret him as a trans man because of the whole "born a boy, raised a girl" thing matching up with how a trans man is born a boy in a girl's body
I think Gwyndolin and The Sun’s Firstborn demonstrates another flaw in the age of fire You either play you part wether you wish to or not like Gwyndolin your cast out and forgotten like The Sun’s Firstborn
One thing I would like to mention: The interpretation of the moon as a symbol of femininity (and the sun as the masculine counterpart) is mostly a Greco-Roman concept (which fits Dark Souls' medieval European look). You can also see this with deities connected with the sun and moon. In Greece and Rome, the moon was connected to Artemis/Diana while the sun was connected to gods like Helios or Apollo. In other countries, the association could be entirely different. In Shinto for example, there is a female sun deity (Amaterasu) and a male moon deity (Tsukuyomi). In the old norse religion, the sun was associated with the female figure Sól (aka Sunna) and the moon with the male figure Máni. Interestingly, this even persists into some modern languages. For example in French the moon is feminine (la lune) and the sun is masculine (le soleil). In German, it is the other way around (die Sonne / der Mond). Interesting that a Japanese developer took this concept that does not exist in their culture in the same way and made it a central part of a character's backstory.
I always love Gwyndolin because of how tragically familiar it is to so many of us. They are the perfect example of Dark Souls' ability to create a remarkably vivid story with minimal exposition.
As a trans woman, I was obsessed with Gwyndolin when I first played dark souls, and while the way the community talked about them was always kinda vaguely problematic (at least at first, I found), they were still a deeply formative character for me.
Not trans really, simply forced into appearing as a woman because of his moon magic. He considers himself a prince and instead of Darkmoon, calls himself Darksun. Also, Gwin is not the only one to be this strict with magic: the pyromancies of the witches of Izalith can be learned only from a witch. Finally, someone should write the Nameless King a letter and convince him to pay his bro a visit, maybe go out for a pizza, go visit Catarina, maybe reconnect their scattered family.
The last interpretation has evidence in the form of the missing statue in the large hall where you fight Ornstein and Smough. Considering the way Souls turns out usually in terms of plot, I think she was shunned by the family but also due to her magic they needed to keep her and use her as a tool for gaining power, simillar to Alluka in HXH. And over time that duplicitous aspect of her character appeared as a product of 'nurture', not nature.
The missing statue is 100% Gwyn's Firstborn, who was known to be shunned from the family. I think Gwyndolin was just born too late to have a big statue in the main hall of the big palace, but there are some representations of what could be interpreted as him in a lot of smaller statues here and there.
Gwyndolin was not always hidden away in the tomb. The icon for the “Heal” miracle in DS3 shows Gwyn addressing a crowd of Silver Knights with Gwyndolin standing just behind him.
The latter is the most likely but I really do not like the former. Gwyndolin's abuse of being wrongfully treated as a daughter due to how the age of fire was setup is downright tragic, and the idea of removing that and replacing it with them just being trans lessens their character and makes it seem downright forced which is just insulting to the community it tries to include. Character depth should never be expended for cheap inclusion.
I always look at it as one of the signs that Gwyn doesn't respect or care for others or the world, except as it serves his vision. None of Gwyn's children have a good relationship with him or a happy ending, the Firstborn was exiled and erased from history when he rejected his father's genocide of the remaining dragons, Gwynivere was relegated to being a lesser sunlight goddess instead of her own person and ultimately fled Anor Londo, and poor Gwyndolin was forced to portray himself as feminine because Gwyn could not accept a masculine lunar deity and he still didn't get the recognition or acclaim of his siblings. He even tries his utmost to uphold the image of Anor Londo his father would have wanted, long after the other gods are gone, and in the end, Aldritch got him 😢
the trans man interpretation is _prooobably_ more accurate, but I’m a trans woman who really likes to self-id with characters, & the interpretation of her as a trans woman is super super comfy & I thank u for giving it to me, tysm
I don't think that he was ever trapped there, I think that Gwyndolin stood post in the Darkmoon Tomb after conjuring the sun over Anor Londor of his own free will
I like to interpret him as a trans man bc it’s relatable, I know what it’s like to be forced by your family to be the daughter you never were, he’s definitely a comfort character for me 😔
As much as early on I learned towards Gwyndolin being a trans woman (probably because of the fact I was myself repressing my nature as a trans woman), it fits better for him to be interpreted from a trans masculine perspective.
In my view, it is definitely the second option. No part of Gwyn's behavior, or Gwyndolin's role in the kingdom suggests acceptance of a trans daughter, moreso forced conformity to a "useful role" irrespective of Gwyndolin's wishes. Gwyndolin may be a perpetrator of the God's cruelties, but he is also their foremost victim, a teachable lesson about how corrupt institutions can ultimately even weaponize those they oppress.
The moon is literally the opposite of the sun and light, the reason to hide him was to cover the perfect royal sunlight family and we can say Gwyn was a little bit afraid of the power of Gwyndolin, Gwyndolin in other hand was really loyal to his father that's why he call himself the Dark Sun rejecting his true nature.
Ive always seen Gwyndolin as a sign that the descendants of Gwyn were weakening with each new one that came, he was the last and youngest of the children of Gwyn in Dark souls 1 and he seemed frail and malformed ,kinda like how Margit is in Elden Ring and how Lothric and Yorshka were on Dark Souls 3.
It's implied that gwyn forced the ring of reversal on his second son making him act as though he was a woman against his will via the ring(which when worn causes the wearer to assume the opposite gender role) I'm going to hazard a guess and say this was out of fear of his second son rising against him as fraraam(his eldest son) did after feeling compassion for the dragons. Tldr: Gwyn is a douche.
It begs the question of why he didn't decide to change into more masculine clothes after Gwyn's death. Gwyndolin calls himself The King of the Gods, so it's fairly obvious that he rejects whatever stereotypes were forced upon him.
i havent seen many people discuss this interpretation but i really like looking at gwyndolin through the lens of a intersex experience. many intersex babies are put through nonessential surgeries to alter their genitalia simply because it's viewed as unnatural and raised as a specific gender. gwyndolin being born male but with certain characteristics perceived as feminine that made his father decide to raise him as a girl feels very similar. there's this hegemonic view of gender and bodies that doesn't allow for the variation of human biology. many intersex people also have to reckon with their gender after having autonomy stripped away from them in deciding on a binary gender for them at a young age where they couldn't consent or even remember, especially if puberty resulted in certain traits that are not in line with their assigned gender.
As someone who lost his older brother due to religious orthodoxy, my dad shunned him from home because he found out he liked men. I can't relate to Gwyndollin, but I can relate to the felling of someone who lost part of his family, because even now he doesn't even want to talk or have anything with us and I still crave the warm touch of my big brother. I hope someday he can allow me to reconnect with him.
I found it interesting how he hid away in the tumb of Gwyn while projecting an illusion of a woman to make the undead sacrifice to extend the age of fire maybe he made gwynevere up of how he wanted to be born, after all when you attack her, even if it's just an illusion, he gets really mad
That is the actual form of Gwynevere, not something Gwyndolin made up from scratch. We see two statues and some paintings of her that don't disappear alongside the rest of the illusion.
My fanon is that he does hate for what his father did to him, but his desperation for aknowledgement from Gwynn. The fact that he is the last old Gods that stayed in Anor Londo for countless cycle of fire is somehow tragic as Gwynnevere literally fled Anor Londo the moment the fire wane, his desire is somewhere else but his loyalty and wants for acknowledgement trap him in Anor Londo until his eventual ends in the hand of Aldrich the soon to be Devourer of Gods and bringer of the Age Of the Deep Sea.
I never understood why we can’t have certain demographics play evil roles? Everyone is capable of evil. It shouldn’t matter how you identify yourself, evil is evil no matter how you see yourself
I think it's just because media has easily put characters of different gender identities and sexualities, easily into villainous roles and yet struggles to pit them in a leading heroic role more often. So it's not that they can't. Just representation wants to show people that even people different from the social norm can be heroic and do good things.
@@thatgoshdarnblep2726 I understand. I think the problem is that the media goes for browny points and make the characters sexuality their whole identity. Which is a problem because it doesn’t allow the character to be flexible or interesting. Or they make them with no flaws and the world bends to their will. Media is terrible at representing heroic people being being heroic has kinda been butchered by them wanting to be inclusive but not wanting to put the effort into making characters that feel like real people going through the motion, as well as trying to fight back against evil
@@cosmicwooloo When it comes to these things I think it comes down to something I learned in creative writing. You aren't writing the character and their story. You are the pen. The character themselves are telling you how they want their stories to go and how they want them to end, it is very strange but when you let the character define themselves and stop forcing them to be a certain way they break out and become better for it. They decide their personality, sexuality, gender identity etc. That's how you make compelling characters.
The problem is not that a potentially trans character is bad, it's the way its done. Like he said in the video, trans people are often called liars and delusional and making a trans character somewhat of a snake is just... weird to say the least.
Also to add to this. When you do confront them, they are constantly pulling away from you. As if to say even in the height of their age they mastered the art of distancing themselves from others and repressing their true inner self deeper and deeper
![CAMPปลิ้น | EP.83[2/2] ประสบการณ์ขนหัวลุกจากตำนานวงการผี!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/T_kFecQw7Ds/mqdefault.jpg)
for me without a doubt it is the latter, because note how Gwyndolin's fight is not called "Gwyndolin the Dark moon" after his own covenant, it is called "Gwyndolin, the dark sun". that is a clear rejection of the female association that has been forced upon him, because he sees himself as shadow to the sun that is his father, but a sun nonetheless.
Also, Yorshka, the only lose friend of Gwyndolin’s that we know of, refers to him as “he” despite him presumably being raised as a “she” implying that’s what he prefers.
This is 100% how I feel too.
Also probably eluding to an eclipse of the sun.
The moon getting in the way and all that.
Finally, I have found it, I have!... ...My very own sun... I...am the sun!... ...I've done it...I have... ...Yes, I did it...I did!...
I can agree there..
I think Gwyndolin being a dude and the whole "raised as a daughter because moon" thing being forced onto him by religious traditions is the interpretation that the game gives you most evidence for.
Same
Didn't gwyn say he found his lack of masculinity repulsive or something like that. Pretty sure this theory is the most true to lore as he eventually leaves behind the reversal ring in ds3
This is the correct interpretation.
@@luke0436 the Darkmoon covenant ring has Gwyndolin regarding his form as “Frail and repugnant” but nothing about masculinity
@@joshyoung2659 yeah that's what I mean. Those were the things his father hated about him so he raised him as a daughter instead of a son
it feels to me more like he was shunned by his family, the gods saw that they could finally have their moon goddess, a strong connection with the silvery night sun, and when they saw she was a he, they decided they couldn't have that and forced him into a role he wasn't made for. they were so close-minded that a girl AND ONLY A GIRL could ever be the moon goddess, and if it meant raising their son a daughter, so be it. the fact that Gwyndolin portrays his sister as the goddess of sunlight feels to me like a middle finger to his dad, an act of protest against the strict gender roles that oppressed him, and maybe others around him, who knows.
gwyndolin doesn't hate her father, in the game she's literally trying to kill you to stop your "filthy" human feet from treading upon his tomb
@@stinkmonger In the first game, yes. In the third game, the tomb lies abandoned.
Also, the most important item in there is the reversal ring, which forces whoever wears it to make movements like the opposite sex. It also states quite explicitly that Gwyndolin was "sullen" and "brooding" while he wore it. Also, Yorshka, who is closest to him, refers to him as brother, and he openly rules Anor Londo. He may not hate his father, but he has healed, and he has surpassed his father's antiquated rules.
It leaves a bad taste in my mouth to assume that Gwyn's decision to raise a boy as a daughter based on an affinity with sorcery is the right one. When Gwyndolin is freed and has had time to deprogram himself, he calls himself male. There's not really anything else to say.
@@watchfulwanderer6443 Just remember that in the third game he wasn't at the tomb just because he was trapped by Sullyvan first, and then eaten by Aldritch. Also, if he started to hate the father after the first game, then the White Way wouldn't even exist as it was.
@@lorisjuniorfavaro8612 The Way of White serves a purpose for him. That's why it still exists.
I never understood the idea that they saw Gwyndolin and went "You're associated with the moon therefor you are being forced to be a girl", given the fact that uhh... Gwynevere is still aligned with the sun while being overtly feminine. The two lines of logic do not add up, as such Gwyndolin's was voluntary to me.
He calls himself: Dark Sun Gwyndolin, he definitely rejected the idea of being forced to be someone he isn’t
I really love how the character and story can change so much depending on how you view characters feeling on there life
In myth of the minotaur Theseus is viewed as a hero, slaying a rampaging monster, but when you look at it the other way, Minotaur was born like this, it's a child locked away for being born "wrong" and then brutally murdered by a hired killer
@@RaelagDidEverythingRight
The Minotaur did get a bunch of sacrifices. He killed all of them. Theseus is merely the first to kill it instead.
But yea, the real villain is Minos. Never got how he became Judge of the dead.
I interpret it like I did one body switching anime where the guy was the only one and was emotionally manipulated by the people around him, as he was more “feminine than the girl” and the only reason he stayed a girl was because the guy he loved, apparently if they switched bodies back love wasn’t romantic anymore ((he didn’t switch with his love interest))
It’s not empowering when they force you to switch genders
This goes for everything dude. Do you think the Nazis thought they were the bad guys themselves? WTF
@@bigpulgalokes what anime is that ? The closest one I can think of is kampfer
Well seeing as how Yorshka, who was very close to Gwyndolin, calls him a dude I think there's a pretty clear explanation
I choose to believe he was forced to be a girl by the Gods, but he is a boy, so I have another reason to hate Gwyn and the Age of Fire
agreed
Yeah I always thought he was a dude who just got forced into an unfortunate situation
I do genuinely pity the brat. Dickish father figures is something we have in common.
It's all Gwyn's fault. Practically a lot of the events in Dark Souls as well as the lore in the background is stemming from Gwyn's own selfishness and hatred over even the most natural of things.
Makes sense
Later in DS3, Yorshka refers to him as "brother", so I think it's more of a latter case, where being a woman was forced onto him. With Gwyn dead, he is no longer has to conform to a female role.
He’s hot, discussion over
In Japanese culture I believe gender roles are very strictly enforced and one of the results of this in Japanese media is the existence of the trope "born x raised as x". From my personal experience consuming Japanese media, this rarely means they transition genders but more like taking the role of said gender. An example of this would be Naoto from Persona 4, who is explicitly a female but took an the gender role of a male so she could be taken more seriously as a detective. So imo it's more of a Japanese culture thing when it comes to gender roles. So my interpretation is that Gwyndolin is a male who was raised to take the gender role of a female instead of the gender identity of a female.
Aka, you can be feminine as a man and masculine as a woman without having to switch from what you were born as. AKA, Tomboys and Femboys.
@@starhammer5247 not really how it work in japanese culture but eh if that how the west see it so be it.
@@starhammer5247 not really what was intended, it’s just a religious thing of the game, the moon is female and her servant must be, gender discussions are not part of the game
@@skrotosd that is true and it genuinely pisses me off when a topic like this is square pegged/round holed with a sledgehammer
Some would say that gender is just the arbitrary social roles pushed upon a person based on their sex anyways.
I always thought that Gwyndolin was raised as a woman in part because of Gwyn's first son betraying the gods.
I also like to think she is the real firstborn, but due to her deformities, raising her as a woman also meant that she couldn't be a ruler, thus not giving anor Londo a "deformed" monarch
I'm pretty sure the First Born defected after Gwyn linked the flame, according to Sunlight Blade at least
@@chumi269 The thing is, i dont think thats the case because otherwise we would have some form to know.
even nameless king, someone who was erased from history, we knew a bit of him in DS1.
If we go that route though, its easy to see its more that gwyndolin have some sort of dragon blood. Snakes on dark souls are a connection to them.
@@chumi269
You talking about Gwynevier?
@@chumi269.....there's literally zero support for that idea. Gwyn's firstborn is explicitly the god of war who f-ed up and was damnatio memoriaed.
I've always found the latter to be more accurate. The gods of dark souls are not particularly known for their flexibility. If a child is born with all the aspects traditionally associated with a woman, I have little doubt that that is the role they would be made to play regardless of what they actually want.
Maaaan gwyndolin was always one of my favourite bosses in DS1, the fight's a shame but the lore is so juicy. To me, Gwyndolin was always a boy forced to be a girl by the dogma of their father. There was never any love for gwyndolin, nor did they ever get the choice to express themselves properly. Gwyndolin would be a woman and that was final. None could ever argue against gwyn so the child just went along with it as "father knew best". God I love dark souls so much.
I'm 90% sure that Gwyndolin is a he. He was born under a symbol of feminine magic, and as such, to maintain appearances, the family spread the news of a "goddess of the moon" in the family, but they didn't really seem to "force" him into the role. Behind him we can find a ring that changes the gendered animations of the character, so the family did design some magic that allowed him to appear of the other gender, but the fact that *he* didn't drop it makes me think he was more comfortable with the gender he was born with (cis) or didn't care enough for it.
Also, the chamberwe find him in wasn't really the basement where things are thrown to be forgotten, that's the basement behind the illusory walls in the fireplace in the main palace. We find him in Gwyn's symbolic tomb, where he mourns his father and tries to lead the last shreds of the kingdom through his illusion of Gwynevere.
Gender aside, Gwyndolin is probably THE most interesting and important character in the entire series. Tracing family ties, it's likely that he's the son of Gwyn and Priscilla (who is, in turn, daughter of Seath and Velka). That would make him the most complete being there can be in the Souls lore: Gwyn's Sunlight, Velka's Humanity and Occult powers, Seath's Dragon heritage and natural Moon magic.
Pricilla is actually Gwyn's granddaughter. She's the daughter of Seath and Gwynevere
I do have an issue with the first thing you said. Literally ALL Dark Souls gods are manipulative, duplicitous, behind-the-scenes schemers. The only thing you mentioned unique to Gwyndolin is snake tentacled, and even then… Seath the Scaleless also is a manipulative, duplicitous, behind-the-scenes schemer with tentacles.
On the contrary, Gwyndolin’s are the only machinations seen as benevolent and non-selfish. Seath did it because he is a disgusting mortal pervert. Gwyn wanted to maintain his status quo at the cost of the world. The Witch of Izalith wanted power. Gwyndolin just wants to protect their home and family so keeps up a ruse for everyone to interact with instead.
Exactly how I feel about it
Exactly!!
Gwyndolyn seems to me more of the idea of a person who had an identity stripped away due to what the ruling power in the family believed, his father is lord of light and sun but he has power of the moon,the shame that could bring forces him to be taken as a daughter. In that case they are taking away his agency as rightfully heir to the throne and keeping his true place in the kingdom a secret, I think it’s that his being the dark sun king shows he hates what he was forced to be. In the sense of losing what he was supposed to be because of others beliefs
Gwyndolin is not hidden away down there, hes staying at the ceremonial tomb of father
I interpret them as “food”
STOP---
I interpret Gwyndolyn outside of gender. He is just another victim of Gwyn's regime and a the last remnant of the cult of sunlight after gwyn falls.
“I interpret gwyndolyn outside oh Gender. HE “
Literally asigning Them a Gender thereby contradicting your own statement
@@mitab1 exactly 👌👌
@@noahandreasen9221 jesus christ just dont comment next time pls
@@forecastjanna1906 bro chill. It was nothing more than a Statement that i found fun. Its not Like im attacking Them
@@king-of-the-hill7741 even if a person is a man or woman, Them is still just a general term for people. Since its not canonicly known wether they identify as man or woman, i use they. Much Like i would with any Other person i dont know The Gender of
If you ever ask yourself "did this happen because Gwyn was a dick," then yes. That is the correct answer.
The latter interpretation has always seemed to me like the intended one, plus it falls squarely in the realm of shitty things Gwyn would do to maintain his power.
I have to admit that my gut reaction was always to go for a "the parents were probably jerks" simply because the gods in these kind of games are usually jerks. That said I wouldn't rule out that that might come from some sort of transphobic perception of "wow, it must be awful for a boy to be raised as a girl, that sounds very traumatic" (my father is old enough to be raised in "young children were put into the older children's clothes regardless of gender because poverty" times and he remembers disliking it). I guess one could read Gwyndolin creating the princess illusion as him being into it/being in touch with that side and the advantages of that side.
It is awful tho to deny them their identity
Gwyn _(Gwyndolin's dad)_ is absolutely a jerk pretty much no matter how you slice it, narcissistically naming all his children after himself then proceeding to use them all as tools & objects is one of the LESS horrible things he does in the backstory of the series, forcing one of his cis male kids to live in a gender identity that doesn't align with him is absolutely in character. _(and therefore what I personally believe to be the case. I don't read Gwyndolin as someone who really was mtf trans)_ He has arguably committed multiple acts of genocide
I don’t think it’s some sort of transphobic given there’s in game evidence that they definitely did not to be a woman given the description of the reversal ring. It’s actually pretty positive line of thinking, it does suck to be forced to preform as a gender you aren’t.
But the gods of dark souls are genuinely jerks.jerks.
as a trans woman, it is awful to be raised as a gender that isn't what you identify as
I was raised as a boy, and it literally made me suicidal until I realized that I am, in fact, a woman
I'm in a much better mental place after coming out and starting my transition.
The thing about souls lore is that it's mostly speculative, there's facts but how these facts are interpreted are different. And the center of souls lore is Gwyn. What you think of Gwyn will define the souls lore, if you believe Gwyn to be the lying God that chained humanity to the light, fearing his age's end. It's likely you'll believe that Gwyn simply used his children as tools, the Nameless King (probably) for battle, Gwynevere as a symbol and Filianore as a trap for the pygmies. Gwyndolin would simply be used to maintain illusions and to trick others to maintain the age of fire.
But if you believe Gwyn attempts to maintain the age of fire is to stop the mad and chaotic abyss. His firstborn was a traitor who abandoned the gods for the dragons, Gwynevere given to the people to sooth them as an act of kindness for man and Filianore a sign of trust and a reward to the Pygmies. His children serve the age of fire or were victims of Gwyn's fear of the age of darkness depending on what you believe about Gwyn
Gwyn's actions directly caused the Dark to become the threat it is. He erased the Pygmy's contributions to the war from history, and branded them with the seal of fire to keep them from using their powers. Gwyn's actions also doomed the world to a slow and wretched stagnation. That's the main point of the games, that Gwyn's decision was a mistake.
@@watchfulwanderer6443 I mean I agree and acknowledge that the popular consensus is that Gwyn is a selfish bastard but I have seen people defend Gwyn and his actions.
@@watchfulwanderer6443 the main point of the games is that Gwyn's choices don't matter, nor anyone else's. In the end, dark will come, all anyone can do is look to the future and hope it will be better than living in a rotting world.
@@Wyrm3 The issue with the idea that "Gwyn's choices don't matter" is that the only reason why basically any of the bad things that happened in the game happened are because, at least in part, of Gwyn.
The Darksign: the entire curse of undeath is because he had the pygmies and their descendants branded to seal away their powers, even though the pygmies worshiped the gods. Because of this, no humans were able to control their fragment of the Dark Soul. This caused Manus to be an issue, because the only reason why his grave was disturbed is because normal humans had their abilities sealed away, giving Kaathe and opening to manipulate. Additionally, because humans branded with the Dark Sign are incapable of controlling the dark, literally no one was around to keep Manus from taking control of the Abyss entirely, to keep their mind and not be instantly overtaken by their own soul. Also, because humans can't control the dark normally, it means that those who are given such powers, like the Darkwraiths, can't be contested and must be sealed away. The only reason why the Dark is a threat is because Gwyn made it that way, by sealing it away and preventing anyone from knowing about, preventing anyone from maybe stopping all the bad shit that happens.
The First Flame: the world is rotting away, becoming worse and worse without recource, because Gwyn feared what would happen if the First Flame stopped burning, feared what the Age of Dark would bring. He condemned the world to a slow, horrible death because of his own inability to handle the dark being in power. The stagnation of the world is damaging it, contorting space and time in increasingly destructive ways, starting off small, but ending the entire world being clustered around a single, dying flame, and everything else being a field of ash. The Age of Dark that happens in the DS1 ending might not be pleasant (we don't know what it entails, given that the strength of the Darksign is tied to the First Flame it might have given humans access to their powers again), but it certainly wouldn't be as bad as "literally the entire world is a field of ash except for one small part, and that one part is also really lifeless and desolate".
We don't know what would happen without Gwyn's paranoia leading him to seal away the Dark Soul and create a tradition of fire-linking, but we know that both those decisions lead to bad things happening pretty quickly, and worse things happening later down the line. The Abyss being a threat is his fault, the curse of undeath is his fault, the stagnation and distortion of the world is his fault. It's only a "rotting world" because of Gwyn, and the dark coming is only an arguably bad thing because Gwyn prevented the people in charge of the Dark from using their powers.
'born a boy, but raised a daughter"
Sounds like the opposite of some king
Which one? Is this a joke? Is the joke missing my head?
@@xtragedgnolf it's from another series
Artoria? (Saber)
Gwyndolin is a "he" both "biologically" and "mentally" everyone refers to him as a he. For his younger sister Yorshka, who was very close to him, always refers to him as a "brother". (Yorshka only appears in DkS 3 however)
Much more of Gwyndolin made sense to me upon playing DS3 and learning of Gwyn’s firstborn son, a traitor to his father who sided with dragons over family and was thus exiled and stricken from all recorded history.
When Gwyn had a second son, the trauma from his first informed his decision to gaslight himself into denying that he had any sons at all.
_”This is not a son who may usurp me, this is my loyal daughter, Gwyndolin.”_ - so to speak.
Another way of putting it is - _”You may_ never _be a son who usurps me, and I’ll make certain of it.”_
I always saw womanhood as something forced upon Gwyndolin rather than being something Gwyndolin accepted. Considering what else goes on with that family it just seems more in character for Gwyn to force his children into roles they might not be comfortable with rather than for this to be an empowering thing.
I’ve always interpreted the story as such:
>Gwyndolin is born a male
>new baby has strong affinity with the moon
>traditionally only females have strong affinities to the moon
>To save face, Gwyndolin is raised as a female as to not go against any established tradition and religions
Or he just realized he looks damn fine in a dress, and he still manages to get more maidens than everyone here.
based.
I love how you changed the pronouns based on the interpretation
@@Silver-Nao that’s your opinion, and fortunately bot everyone has to agree. But I hope you still have a nice day
@@HellDub33 I mean biology and neurology agree with me but I’m well aware you wouldn’t put fourth the effort to read them or listen to my points. I’ve tried having mature discussions with transphobes but they never even try to listen so have a nice day
@@Fairy_Teeth How is he a transphobe? It's literally a fact, you can change your gender and call yourself a girl but it doesn't change your sex, that's what he was saying, there's literally nothing transphobic about that. Also, I don't think you know how biology works lol..
@@Fairy_Teeth what they're saying isn't transphobic they're saying that if someone is male but raised as female not by their own choice, they're likely cool with being called female out of convenience but are ultimately still a guy. transness is a voluntary (or vital, depending on your view of things) process whereas mistaken identity is not and therefore should not influence pronouns
@@Dear_Amnesia there’s a difference between how a male and female brain develop and sometimes one brain will develop in the others body, that’s part of biology that’s what I was referring too
I know I'm a bit late to the discussion but I think this whole thing is more sbout gender roles than gender identity. Another comment mentioned that a person being assigned a role typically associated with the opposite gender is a common trope in japanese media.
I also don't really think Miyazaki had transgender people in mind when coming up with Gwyndolin.
My interpretation is that Gwyndolin was born a boy, but raised with female gender roles due to his association with the moon and magic. This idea of him being a man is supported by Yorshka referring to him as older brother and using he/him pronouns for Gwyndolin in Dark Souls 3. Obviously however you couldn't have known this as you haven't played DS3 yet (iirc).
What I think of Gwyndolin. There’s a head pat zone behind that crown. That’s it
I just think "sad snake tentacle person cute"
I may get hate for this, but I think calling Gwynndalyn a trans character is really bad. They never state themselves as female, and the lore states they were FORCED to present female. It’s a GROOMED male child who grew up unloved and abused, and now in the absence of the abuser they’re trying to still follow and abide by the abusers will in a sick Stockholm syndrome scenario. Celebrating them as a trans character is a REALLY bad trans representation.
I always saw Gwyndolin as a manipulator out of necessity. He has learned to do this because that was what he had to do in order to survive, in order to be acknowledged in any way. He keeps Anor Londo running on a lie, the same lie he was born to. The same lie that his father started.
I never really thought that much into the topic because I thought it was pretty cut and dry. Gwyndolin was born a boy and himself along with his other siblings consider himself as male but his father seeing his affinity with moon magic essentially forced him to act as a princess and raised him as such. Gwyndolin never agreed with this and like with most stuff in Dark Souls lore Gwyn was just being a dick. I personally doubt from soft intended there to be any trans implications and instead made Gwyndolin another example of how bad Gwyn really was.
I interpret him as my husband
Gwyndolin is tragic. My reasoning is that not only was he raised as a girl just because of his natural talent but the fact he is only honored in secret and hidden by his family. Maybe it's all something he could've wanted for himself but we'll never know because his family made the choice for him and he grew up molded by their wants. It's even worse if you consider that he accepted the role they made for him just so he can be accepted and possibly loved by them. Which returns us to him being hidden away and alone. It's like watching a child who wants love doing everything for their parents approval. The tragedy in that? He's just affirming his place that they made for him. It's like watching him tie a noose around his neck because *my family made it for me*.
This is pretty much the way I see it as well. It's implied that Gwyndolin does idolise his father despite how awful Gwyn was to him. A lot of his character is, Dark Souls being ambigious and leaving lots of things to speculation and interpretation, but from those interpretations, it's likely he had terrible self image, was considered a disappointment (since they wanted a moon _goddess_ not a moon _god_ , and also that he seeked approval from his family, something that we know he must have not gotten because there are no statues of him in Anor Londo.
He's quite tragic. If I could, I'd give him a hug and some reassurance.
I kinda lean towards trans fem especially because its my silly head canon that Gwyndolin is Yorshka post transition with the gwyndolin seen in Aldritch just being another illusion. Also “hiding away from anyone to conceal your true form and only interact with people in a form of an OC you made is kinda a mood” is something that I kinda relate to. Although knowing Gwyn I kinda feel like the trans masc read has more supporting it with less out there speculation. I do like the idea of them working with seeth to transition (moonlight butterflies do share a theme with gwyndolin and the sneks are definitely associated with seeth and seeth is also clearly seeking a transition of soughts) but that kinda turns the narrative in a direction that I can see people finding issues with.
Gwyndolin is a rather interesting topic for me, as I've always seen him/her, as commentary on the very notion of forced gender roles by way of gender fluidity. In all honesty it easy to associate the usage of snakes and illusions as deceitful but the usage of such things could also be interpreted in a positive sense. On the notions of illusion and deception Loki the Norse god is a entity that embraces the notion of gender fluidity given some of their antics in the Eddas. As for the usage of snakes themselves in Greek mythology Tiresias an individual who became a woman by striking a snake and then back into a man by striking another could also be used to express another positive representation of gender fluidity.
Femboy Gwyndolin Femboy Gwyndolin Femboy Gwyndolin
I have 2 positions on gwyndolin depending on my moon
1.This video
2.Snake Bussy
Born as a boy, raised as a girl, a man
To be fair, due to a mistranslation, outside of Japan there has been a misinterpretation of who Gwyndolin is.
Priscilla (in Japanese) is described as the illegitimate daughter of Seath and the most probable mother is Velka (goddess with a dark soul), since she has both the powers of humanity and moon sorcery.
Gwindolin has the power of the dark soul, moon magic and miracles, so the most probable parents are Gwyn and Priscilla (probably the only reason Priscilla is alive).
Gwyndolin was forced to wear a ring that turned him partially female (the ring can be found close to his father's grave in DSIII), so he would never be able to inherit the throne, for Gwyn he was a monstrosity like his mother, only good to be used for his power.
I think it depends on how you look at it. If you take it that Gwyn raised them like a daughter because they identified more with the moon and had a closer connection to the moon, seeing them as more a woman than a man. But that's only if you look at it from the positive perspective of Gwyn being a father that really/actually cared for his children. I'm not saying he didn't at all, but based on the lore and events of the games, Gwyn, if anything, used his children as proxxys for his own motives. He basically trapped/tricked Gwyndolin to be his eternal guardian of Anor London and give off the illusion that the Gods are still in control/power. Along with that, he banished his first born and erased him from the annals of history, so that he would be forgotten. That and he imprisoned his granddaughter because she was a child born partially from a dragon. That's just the big obvious stuff. As the series goes on, it becomes more and more clear how badly Gwyn not only fucked over his children but the world itself. The ds3 dlc really goes deep into this.
The basic point I'm making is that based on evidence from throughout the series, Gwyn has been characterized and presented as someone, that at the least bad, was someone that over time, as his age was ending, he became more scared for and obsessed with making sure his age of Fire would never end and the gods would always stay in power. To the point that he was willing to take whatever fucked up measures, regardless of the pain, suffering and detriment it may and/or will cause to his fellow gods, his own children/family, and the world at large. After a certain point, Gwyn was only tinking of himself, his own insecurities and fears. All the more fitting that when we find him protecting/being the last stand in defense of the Flame, he has already gone completely hollow. A husk of the God that once was, that can only do and knows one thing. To defend the flame with whatever strength it/he has left.
Because of all this, It's very hard for me at least to agree with the interpretation of Gwyndolin being a trans women because it's under the impression that it happened the way it did was because Gwyn was being a supportive/caring father. But taking into account everything else about him/Gwyn, this scenario is highly unlikely to me and makes more sense as something he forced onto Gwyndolin/Gwyn forced to Gwyndolin to be raised as and treated/seen as a female, because of Gwyndolin's association and deep connection with the moon which in this universe and in many cultures and religions, is seen as feminant/the mark of a woman. The only people that would know other wise would be those in the royal family.
But fine, maybe that's just me missing a key perspective here. If anyone would like to correct me or rebuttal, I'd gladly appreciate it.
Again, I have know problem with Gwyndolin being trans. If there is a way to make it make sense or if from software wants to make a proper trans character, I'm all for it. I'm just saying that from the evidence that is provided from the games, and Gwyndolin and their relationship with Gwyn, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me that they are trans. There are defenetly alot of gender related themes here that can apply to trans people just as much as it can apply to any non gender conforming person, either it be through how you/they identify internally or through them envibing traits and maybe even visual aesthetics/an outward appearance that are not usually/normally associated with people that either identify as or are born as that gender.
I think the being a girls thing was a factor forced on him by the religion, since we know Gwynevere has revered to Gwyndolin “brother”.
Pretty wild that you can Interpret Gwendolyn as a trans woman or a trans man
Even though you can't because lore
@@CasualREDACTED still, you don't get that very often that you can come up with a theory like this without doing a heaping ton mental gymnastics
@@thefanguy639 proof Gwyn
Literally Gwyn is a piece of shit. Had a son who like dragons so he erased him from history. Had a daughter with "great chest" and she's incharge. Then has a son and makes him the moon goddess because they needed moon goddess because moon goddess eas needed for Gwyn's sun cult.
Alot of the people are just victims of Gwyn. including his own family.
@@CasualREDACTED I know jack about the dark souls lore so please elaborate on the "great chest" thing because my dumb 17 year old brain can think of one thing and I'm pretty sure you know what it is
@@thefanguy639 gwynevere had big boobies and that was literally the message put I front of her room before meeting her. FromSoft knew how to make great content
Pontiff sulyvahn and Aldrich were straight up villains
For every boss (except for Sif, Priscilla and Quelaag) You kill in Dark Souls 1 is either an act of Euthanasia (Ceaseless Discharge) or an act of stopping the Bull Dung cycle of keeping the fire alive. I do not regret on keeping the fire alive, despite knowing the "chosen" undead is just a horse crap of lies for the reason that i know someone is willing to stop the cycle. And to say i just had enough of the things i have gone through (from ending Artorias, Killing Sif *yes. I did Save Princess Dusk Twice before defeating Sif*, to leaving Priscilla alone in the painted world.) Lordran.... So my way of ending my life as an undead is through the Fire.
I believe Gwyndolin being born as a "he" and being raised as a woman due to religious reasons is the interpretation most supported by the lore.
Gwyndolin refers to himself as "the black sun", so does his pact, which implies he sees himself as a shadow of his father, rather than having an aparent connection to the moon.
Also, the dragon girl we find locked up in a tower in ds3, who was aparently raised by Gwyndolin or was at least friends with him, refers to him as a "he" or as her "brother" if i'm not mistaken.
I haven't played the games in a long time though so i might have missed something.
Wow thoughtful and in depth analysis of a game characters gender identity in a Soulsborne game, I genuinely never thought I’d see that day. Thank you
I would like to give Gwyndolin a hug
Since people are going to be asking about it, I censor the word "trap" in this short, because when used to refer to a trans person, it has a very ugly history.
Basically, in many places it used to be legal to literally murder trans people if you claimed that you were so scared by their trans status that it made you temporarily insane (you can google "gay panic defense" and "trans panic defense" if you want sources and details, it's ugly stuff).
Trans people also generally don't like being referred to in a way that implies they're trying to trick people or "trap" straight people into sexual or romantic situations, because it implies that they are predatory by nature, and aren't the gender they say they are.
There seems to be a process of reclamation, or a changing of the word's meaning, happening right now in various online communities. Some trans people have started claiming the word and using it about themselves, and you'll see it used casually in plenty of places on the internet. There are a lot of people who will be surprised to hear the term has a bigoted history, and if you're one of them, hey, now you know.
It's not any of my business to take sides on whether the word can or should be reclaimed - the word is still considered a slur by a lot of people, and as such I won't use it casually in my videos.
I prefer the second understanding based on dark souls 3 when his sister refers to him as brother and not sister which i would assume she would know the correct pronoun considering they seem close.
I'm completely behind eliminating the word use if it helps in any way with the progress of trans rights. I removed it from my vocabulary years ago, but I do think that some of the points are a bit conflated.
It sounds like a lot of what you brought up is from Contrapoints video. I think she makes a lot of points that I agree with, but I do think that directly tying term to the awful history of trans rights isn't exactly 1 to 1. The origin doesn't come from those cases, it comes from a trope in anime where a self identified male character looks so much like a woman, that it "tricks" the protag/audience insert to fall for them before they realize they aren't a woman. It's dumb and still not the best in terms of approaching conversations about gender, but its the intent for the use of the word.
The problem was that people started using it like a shotgun and applying it to trans woman as well. Even trans woman on 4chan would use it. Bailey Jay, now a trans pornstar, self identified as the term for years. Yes, the conflation of the term and the history of violence to trans folk all over is the scary part, but I dont think the word used correctly should inherently be offensive.
If I call a Native American and Indian, that's obviously not ok. But if I describe someone from India that way, no problem. If we just said, stop using the term cause it's offensive, use South East Asian instead if someone is from India, it'd technically still be accurate, but it wouldn't 100% convey the information I'm trying to dictate, you know?
I only use femboy now, but I still think there's a class of character that the term suits better. I think that given Gwyndolyn is only ever referred to as he/Him, I think it would apply to him as well.
really out here bringing quality youtube shorts!
I find it tricky when approaching the use of "tr**" as a slur given when ds1 was released. I personally still think the word has valid uses outside being a slur, but I cede the use completely due to the fact that it's being misused.
The term initially comes from an archetype of anime characters who identify as male, but are designed in a way to look effeminate to the point of being confused for female. Generally that "tricks" the protagonist into attraction for the character, until they identify themselves as male. There's still some icky parts to the connotation, but it's also anime, and I think having a term to describe the archetype makes sense. I think you can even make a similar point for things like femboys or such, where they may identify as male but have self identified straight men feeling a certain sort of way. The problem is that it began to be used to describe trans woman as well, which is clearly not ok.
The archetype still exists, and I think that Gwyndolyn is actually a valid example of it. The reading you have is valid, but literally the only pronouns used afaik are he/him, so I dont feel comfortable assigning others. I think looking down on player use of it is a bit unfair because it was during a time when the term wasn't seen as a slur.
While I agree the term isn't always used as a slur, and I love femboys in general, I think both the anime community and gamers have had a really rough history with trans-acceptance. Even now some CLEARLY trans characters in anime get routinely called the t word, and likewise people misuse that word as a slur.
I don't think we can really know what each person leaving that message meant, but I find it hard to believe that, at least some people, didn't meant in a derogatory manner.
@@hikarikouno Personally I think its an innocent word than has been misused (I've discussed this with a trans friend and they're the one that gave me this interpretation). The T word (saying like this under threat of comment deletion) is used for (usually) male characters who present as the opposite gender in the way they dress but do not have dysphoria. They still identify as their biological gender because of this and as such as not trans. The term can be problematic, obviously, but its more of how the word is used. Calling Astolfo the T word isn't offensive, its a fact. Calling someone who is actually trans the T word is either a misunderstanding or malicious. However the first can be fixed with educating the person who said the word, and the second can be fixed by telling them to go fuck themselves.
Well the t word actually originates even before those kinds of characters were popular. It was used to imply that trans people , especially trans women , only "played the part" or were "just crossdressing" to trick the opposite gender into doing the devil's tango... It's very much so still a slur and I personally think any usage of that word is kind of disgusting
The chamber Gwyndolin is in isn’t a basement the family is hiding him in. Its her Father’s tomb, which shows that even with all of Gwyn’s decisions, Gwyndolin was faithful to upkeep his Age of Fire going even after his death. She even keeps an illusion up all over Anor Londo including her own sister, she controls what it appears like, therefore she humbly doesnt make statues of herself but of the people she praises, like Gwyn and Gwynevere
Like a famous archer said........"wanna get philosophical? Lets talk about the moon."
Gwyndolin is the only one who has carried out his father's wish to the end. He/she has seen the age of fire come to an end countless times and, in one way or another, he/she has always managed to keep the age of light going. He /she has always been there to defend what his father built. People always say: "Praise the sun" but, it is thanks to Gwyndolin that all this continues to exist, without the dark sun, there would be no sun to pray.
Youre an awesome person for covering this topic in the way you did
I think , gwyndolyn Is just another enemy to meet my chaos fire sword .
i dont actually play thebgame and domt know anything about the lore, but i interpret him as a trans man because of the whole "born a boy, raised a girl" thing matching up with how a trans man is born a boy in a girl's body
I think Gwyndolin and The Sun’s Firstborn demonstrates another flaw in the age of fire
You either play you part wether you wish to or not like Gwyndolin your cast out and forgotten like The Sun’s Firstborn
Gwyndolin hot. That’s my analysis.
One thing I would like to mention: The interpretation of the moon as a symbol of femininity (and the sun as the masculine counterpart) is mostly a Greco-Roman concept (which fits Dark Souls' medieval European look). You can also see this with deities connected with the sun and moon.
In Greece and Rome, the moon was connected to Artemis/Diana while the sun was connected to gods like Helios or Apollo. In other countries, the association could be entirely different. In Shinto for example, there is a female sun deity (Amaterasu) and a male moon deity (Tsukuyomi). In the old norse religion, the sun was associated with the female figure Sól (aka Sunna) and the moon with the male figure Máni.
Interestingly, this even persists into some modern languages. For example in French the moon is feminine (la lune) and the sun is masculine (le soleil). In German, it is the other way around (die Sonne / der Mond).
Interesting that a Japanese developer took this concept that does not exist in their culture in the same way and made it a central part of a character's backstory.
I deadass thought gwyndolin more of a femboy more then anything else but sure
I always love Gwyndolin because of how tragically familiar it is to so many of us. They are the perfect example of Dark Souls' ability to create a remarkably vivid story with minimal exposition.
a boy was raised as a girl because he was good at girly magic. still a boy, just forced to cross dress.
vi elsker det når alle de passende pronominer/stedord bliver brugt, Keep up the good work!
As a trans woman, I was obsessed with Gwyndolin when I first played dark souls, and while the way the community talked about them was always kinda vaguely problematic (at least at first, I found), they were still a deeply formative character for me.
Yuck
That one guy that put I’ll still smash💀
Not trans really, simply forced into appearing as a woman because of his moon magic.
He considers himself a prince and instead of Darkmoon, calls himself Darksun.
Also, Gwin is not the only one to be this strict with magic: the pyromancies of the witches of Izalith can be learned only from a witch.
Finally, someone should write the Nameless King a letter and convince him to pay his bro a visit, maybe go out for a pizza, go visit Catarina, maybe reconnect their scattered family.
Gwyn is an abusive father
The first interpretation is wrong since Gwyndolin is a dude, he identifies as a man and everyone else in the game refers to him as male
I view it as the latter because a lot of dialog gives me the impression he views himself as male
The last interpretation has evidence in the form of the missing statue in the large hall where you fight Ornstein and Smough. Considering the way Souls turns out usually in terms of plot, I think she was shunned by the family but also due to her magic they needed to keep her and use her as a tool for gaining power, simillar to Alluka in HXH. And over time that duplicitous aspect of her character appeared as a product of 'nurture', not nature.
The missing statue is 100% Gwyn's Firstborn, who was known to be shunned from the family. I think Gwyndolin was just born too late to have a big statue in the main hall of the big palace, but there are some representations of what could be interpreted as him in a lot of smaller statues here and there.
Gwyndolin was not always hidden away in the tomb. The icon for the “Heal” miracle in DS3 shows Gwyn addressing a crowd of Silver Knights with Gwyndolin standing just behind him.
The latter is the most likely but I really do not like the former.
Gwyndolin's abuse of being wrongfully treated as a daughter due to how the age of fire was setup is downright tragic, and the idea of removing that and replacing it with them just being trans lessens their character and makes it seem downright forced which is just insulting to the community it tries to include.
Character depth should never be expended for cheap inclusion.
I always look at it as one of the signs that Gwyn doesn't respect or care for others or the world, except as it serves his vision. None of Gwyn's children have a good relationship with him or a happy ending, the Firstborn was exiled and erased from history when he rejected his father's genocide of the remaining dragons, Gwynivere was relegated to being a lesser sunlight goddess instead of her own person and ultimately fled Anor Londo, and poor Gwyndolin was forced to portray himself as feminine because Gwyn could not accept a masculine lunar deity and he still didn't get the recognition or acclaim of his siblings. He even tries his utmost to uphold the image of Anor Londo his father would have wanted, long after the other gods are gone, and in the end, Aldritch got him 😢
the trans man interpretation is _prooobably_ more accurate, but I’m a trans woman who really likes to self-id with characters, & the interpretation of her as a trans woman is super super comfy & I thank u for giving it to me, tysm
I don't think that he was ever trapped there, I think that Gwyndolin stood post in the Darkmoon Tomb after conjuring the sun over Anor Londor of his own free will
I like to interpret him as a trans man bc it’s relatable, I know what it’s like to be forced by your family to be the daughter you never were, he’s definitely a comfort character for me 😔
i saw a message that said “trap ahead so therfore turn back”
As much as early on I learned towards Gwyndolin being a trans woman (probably because of the fact I was myself repressing my nature as a trans woman), it fits better for him to be interpreted from a trans masculine perspective.
He isn’t trans at all sorry to burst your bubble.
I honestly like his/her snakey legs. I think they are cool. Almost adorable even.
In my view, it is definitely the second option. No part of Gwyn's behavior, or Gwyndolin's role in the kingdom suggests acceptance of a trans daughter, moreso forced conformity to a "useful role" irrespective of Gwyndolin's wishes.
Gwyndolin may be a perpetrator of the God's cruelties, but he is also their foremost victim, a teachable lesson about how corrupt institutions can ultimately even weaponize those they oppress.
The moon is literally the opposite of the sun and light, the reason to hide him was to cover the perfect royal sunlight family and we can say Gwyn was a little bit afraid of the power of Gwyndolin, Gwyndolin in other hand was really loyal to his father that's why he call himself the Dark Sun rejecting his true nature.
This is peak Reddit
Ive always seen Gwyndolin as a sign that the descendants of Gwyn were weakening with each new one that came, he was the last and youngest of the children of Gwyn in Dark souls 1 and he seemed frail and malformed ,kinda like how Margit is in Elden Ring and how Lothric and Yorshka were on Dark Souls 3.
It's implied that gwyn forced the ring of reversal on his second son making him act as though he was a woman against his will via the ring(which when worn causes the wearer to assume the opposite gender role) I'm going to hazard a guess and say this was out of fear of his second son rising against him as fraraam(his eldest son) did after feeling compassion for the dragons.
Tldr: Gwyn is a douche.
It begs the question of why he didn't decide to change into more masculine clothes after Gwyn's death. Gwyndolin calls himself The King of the Gods, so it's fairly obvious that he rejects whatever stereotypes were forced upon him.
i havent seen many people discuss this interpretation but i really like looking at gwyndolin through the lens of a intersex experience. many intersex babies are put through nonessential surgeries to alter their genitalia simply because it's viewed as unnatural and raised as a specific gender. gwyndolin being born male but with certain characteristics perceived as feminine that made his father decide to raise him as a girl feels very similar. there's this hegemonic view of gender and bodies that doesn't allow for the variation of human biology.
many intersex people also have to reckon with their gender after having autonomy stripped away from them in deciding on a binary gender for them at a young age where they couldn't consent or even remember, especially if puberty resulted in certain traits that are not in line with their assigned gender.
As someone who lost his older brother due to religious orthodoxy, my dad shunned him from home because he found out he liked men. I can't relate to Gwyndollin, but I can relate to the felling of someone who lost part of his family, because even now he doesn't even want to talk or have anything with us and I still crave the warm touch of my big brother. I hope someday he can allow me to reconnect with him.
Just really wanted to thank you for being so mindful when discussing these topics
Nah magical affinity isn't a choice he was raised as a girl because gwyn was like "welp, no son of mine is gonna be a INT/DEX build"
Jokes on you, i suck at souls games and would never get this far XD
Once you play enough it clicks. Dying isn't fun but makes your appreciate all the skill you've acquired.
@@sanesanchezs I honestly got subpar at bloodborne. Beat that weird dog cthulu in the church on my own
The biggest enemy in ds1 is those damn cliffs and pits. No enemy will kill you more than those
Jokes on me, i did indeed get this far…didnt even find the darkmoon covenant…anor londo sucks.
I found it interesting how he hid away in the tumb of Gwyn while projecting an illusion of a woman to make the undead sacrifice to extend the age of fire
maybe he made gwynevere up of how he wanted to be born, after all when you attack her, even if it's just an illusion, he gets really mad
That is the actual form of Gwynevere, not something Gwyndolin made up from scratch. We see two statues and some paintings of her that don't disappear alongside the rest of the illusion.
Dost thou not knoweth of femboys?
Men of culture, unite!
My fanon is that he does hate for what his father did to him, but his desperation for aknowledgement from Gwynn. The fact that he is the last old Gods that stayed in Anor Londo for countless cycle of fire is somehow tragic as Gwynnevere literally fled Anor Londo the moment the fire wane, his desire is somewhere else but his loyalty and wants for acknowledgement trap him in Anor Londo until his eventual ends in the hand of Aldrich the soon to be Devourer of Gods and bringer of the Age Of the Deep Sea.
I never understood why we can’t have certain demographics play evil roles? Everyone is capable of evil. It shouldn’t matter how you identify yourself, evil is evil no matter how you see yourself
I think it's just because media has easily put characters of different gender identities and sexualities, easily into villainous roles and yet struggles to pit them in a leading heroic role more often. So it's not that they can't. Just representation wants to show people that even people different from the social norm can be heroic and do good things.
@@thatgoshdarnblep2726 I understand. I think the problem is that the media goes for browny points and make the characters sexuality their whole identity. Which is a problem because it doesn’t allow the character to be flexible or interesting. Or they make them with no flaws and the world bends to their will. Media is terrible at representing heroic people being being heroic has kinda been butchered by them wanting to be inclusive but not wanting to put the effort into making characters that feel like real people going through the motion, as well as trying to fight back against evil
@@cosmicwooloo When it comes to these things I think it comes down to something I learned in creative writing. You aren't writing the character and their story. You are the pen. The character themselves are telling you how they want their stories to go and how they want them to end, it is very strange but when you let the character define themselves and stop forcing them to be a certain way they break out and become better for it. They decide their personality, sexuality, gender identity etc. That's how you make compelling characters.
The problem is not that a potentially trans character is bad, it's the way its done. Like he said in the video, trans people are often called liars and delusional and making a trans character somewhat of a snake is just... weird to say the least.
Also to add to this. When you do confront them, they are constantly pulling away from you. As if to say even in the height of their age they mastered the art of distancing themselves from others and repressing their true inner self deeper and deeper