The Problem With 'Dating Preferences'
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ต.ค. 2022
- A recent episode of The Cut's speed dating show 'The Button' has caused controversy about the nature of certain contestants' apparent dating preferences. Is there any room for us to criticize the qualities we seek in a partner? Today's episode of the Elliot Show gets ~touchy~.
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edited by danae o.! - บันเทิง
As a 6ft cis girl with no height preference, I can say that there have been straight men who rejected me for my height and gay girls who crushed on me because of my height and both outcomes make me uncomfortable. There’s a weird association with “lead partner” and height that doesn’t always gel with my personality and it can be frustrating to deal with.
I've had a couple of my friends who are women around 6ft tall say they no longer bother dating men shorter than them because these men end up having such complexes about it. It just shows how societal standards reinforce themself. While I never thought much about it, especially as my dad is shorter than my mum, and his dad was shorter than his mum.
Same. I’ve had partners leave me alone or helpless in situations because they think I’m tough enough, despite my personality not being tough tho I guess my height makes it seem like, for example I shouldn’t be afraid to walk outside in the dark or that I need no help carrying heavy stuff, so yeah there’s this weird association and expectation in me just because I’m tall for men where I live.
I look up to you guys
@@Mightyyy8 LMAOOOOOOOOO
Oh yeah I’m only 5’8 and I’ve been unmatched by men on dating apps immediately as soon as I disclose that
Me who's been almost exclusively attracted to older meaner women: "I don't think I should unpack this"
Me attracted to men like my father. Same. :/
@@lane6216 girl go to therapy 💀
@@lane6216 bruh what the
@@lane6216 Pysche major here, don't feel bad about it. In pyschology it is called s*xual imprinting. It's a naturally occuring phenomenon where you imprint your preferences subconsciously at a young age by viewing your parents, usually being the closest example of the concept of romantic attraction and relationship as a child. It is documented and researched amongst many animals and humans are no different. It's not an inherent indicator of anything incestuous so you can ignore these people acting like you have some kind of a problem. Assuming you're not actually attracted to your dad ofc.
@@ilovewritingessays2017, thank you. I don’t have any shame about it as I know you’re right. Add on the fact that my father was a narcissistic abuser, and it just gets very muddy. It’s hard to be a child in that environment and keep any of your thoughts straight. I worked my whole life to not be my mother. In some ways I was successful; in others I failed. We’re all works in progress. 💕
I’m a butch woman (more or less, my gender is complicated etc etc, but this is how I’m seen in society). I’ve had a man insult me publicly only to confess attraction to me privately. His attraction to me was not welcome, but it was sociologically interesting because it lifted the veil in a way. I’ve realized since then that a lot of people’s “dating preferences” aren’t actually based on who they’re attracted to so much as *who they’re willing to be seen in public with.*
Excuse me, just lifting my jaw back up off the floor. You hit the nail on this so hard.
fellow butch,, had experiences with men in that way as well. But you made me think about those experiences differently
Yeah, the whole "men prefer blondes, but marry brunettes" 😝
that's pretty weird.
Yup. I was repressing my bisexuality and my liking for latina women, and dated purely white women, for social validation, also I "prefered" shorter women. Almost all my tastes are preferences, but I've honestly been attracted to all types of girls, any variable like race, height, skinny or big. If I had a requirement that was super set I probably would never have dated and even figured out what I REALLY don't like, and most older people will tell you it's Personality, which is true
Also I think that we are in general too "afraid" of just... attraction. You are labeled as shallow if you don't want to date someone based on their looks (aka are they attractive or not) so now you have to find justifications and 'preferences' because you can't just say "look, I'm just not attracted to you." You can't force attraction and people are attracted to different things (tall, short, big nose, thick neck, fat or abs etc.). I would feel better if I was told that they don't just find me attractive than be fed some mollifying bs. I would feel like that's fair, I too don't find a lot of people attractive, it's understandable my looks might not vibe with someone else. Edit. Grammar
Interesting ! a person fitting in our standards does not make them automatically attractive.
For me personally I still feel it's ok to have a dating preference. To each their own, some people have preferences some people don't that's life. If someone doesn't love you for you go where you're appreciated. Also just because u don't have a preference doesn't mean your better than someone who do.
Progressively dating also isn't the answer because people will still end up being hurt.
All humans are shallow
Also, i feel like people think they can only have "positive" preferences. Pretty preferences. But some preferences (things you are attracted to) aren't necessarily beautiful. Sometimes you just feel attracted to wide faces. Point is, you can't choose your preferences, but I feel like most people pick a few traits, mash them together and say "yeah that's my preference"
Yes. And I think there’s a fear that all people are attracted to the same looks so if you reject this person no one will want them because your attractions are the “right” ones that everyone has. Does that make sense?
We have to remember that there’s a huge variety in things people find attractive. We have this simplistic idea about evolution like “women all like strong men because cave men could protect them.” But our brains interpret strength and protection differently and codify different attractions
I feel like people think their preferences are fine and don't hurt anyone because "if someone doesn't fit my preferences, I simply won't date them. No harm, no foul." But I feel like these "preferences" often seep into actual real relationships. I've heard of many relationships where people have broken up with their significant other because they gained weight or became less physically fit. I think it's interesting that most people understand it's kind of an a-hole move to break up with someone for gaining weight, but don't think it's that bad to reject someone outright for not being thin enough. Obviously, the first situation is more outwardly hurtful but the thing is, both of these actions are coming from the same source, the same rigid "preference."
As a fat person, personally I truly don't care if someone doesn't want to date me because I'm fat. It'd be like trying to force someone to be attracted to something they are just inherently not. I also don't want to date someone who isn't attracted to me.
Committing to a relationship is different because there's now an unspoken agreement that you're gonna be there for each other through thick and thin, in this case literally.
I also think if someone has an issue with their partner gaining weight that's something that needs to be communicated and talked about. If they just break up immediately before discussing it then it's like they really only wanted you for your looks instead of the whole package, thus making it a dick move.
I don't understand why people can't just like what they like without the assumption that liking something means you hate the other. Of course there are people who hate or deny the other without giving them a chance, but then that's not a preference anymore like he said.
But honestly I have nothing against those people either as long as they are not hateful outside of dating, people can date whoever they want, even if their wants are hindering them that's their choice.
For example,
I'm asexual and I pursue a non sexual relationship, for me that's like cutting out 90%+ of my dating pool. Of course I could choose to have sex and not hinder myself, but I would rather not have a partner at all than compromise on that. That's why I understand where people with dating requirements come from, we've made our beds and still choose to lie in it.
Thank you for this comment. I think theyre something very real about the deeply subconcious hold that oppressive societal messaging has on our thinking that then shows up as “dating prefrences.”
Instead of being attracted to people for what they each have to offer, or being attracted to difference, seeing people as part of the story that humanity had to offer, we put some people up high and most people low. Id like to see more appreciation (thats not fetishization) of anyone outside of thin, white, cishet norms. I really appreciate your comment, its such a good example and very well put.
@@LennyTheHopeless you have to assume that someone’s body is going to change when you date them. Eventually we’ll all grow old or get sick and it’s not fair to be with someone just cause you like how they look now imo. Except stuff about them that won’t change. Like maybe they have nice hands or eyes
@@allygarr8928 Getting old isn't comparable, getting old is inevitable unless you die before that. Getting fat isn't always uncontrollable.
I never said they had to leave their partner as soon as they stop taking care of themselves. Just that they should sit down and talk about how maybe person A feels worried about person Bs health.
People often compare obesity to smoking cigarettes because they're extremely similar. If your partner picked up a sudden smoking habit, you can see it affecting them, and you don't like people who smoke...then would it still be rude to not bring it up to them?
Sure if becoming obese was due to some disease or whatever, then sure, it's a dick move. But I don't see anything wrong with communicating how something makes you feel in a relationship. You're trying to solve the issue with your partner so you can still be together.
@@LennyTheHopeless it's not always in your control though. I saw a lot of guys complaining about how their wife doesn't look the same after child birth and that's so shitty
There's nothing wrong with having a "type" or a specific set of features you find especially attractive that may belong to a certain group of people. The main problem is that its an incredibly slippery slope to fetishizing or objectifying the people that have those traits. But there is a difference.
Exactly! Some people just outright say stuff like having a personal preference is hurtful and whatnot. No matter what, each individual have certain preferences be it looks or personality, it's normal to have them. But fetishizing is a whole different matter, it's bad because that means you love someone because of that one aspect of them that you fetishize and force things a certain way for your partner, not loving your partner for themselves.
Or being prejudiced against people who don't have those features you 'prefer'. Basically, going out of your way to be mean to them or talk bad about them
Does my weird attraction to heterochromia count as a set of features?
I actually don't think there is a difference, that's literally what a fetish implies. CAN you date outside of those specific preferences? Do you need them to get off? If so... You have a fetish, no amount of rationalizing it will take that fact of the matter away.
You can claim there's unhealthy and healthy forms of fetishes, but it's a fetish none the less
My plan was to never marry, so I dated for LOTS of years. I used to have preferences, but the longer I dated, the fewer the preferences. Preferences are inhibiting and confining, and in the long term they won't make you happy and fulfilled. Those tall, handsome Disney princes have to have a personality and shared interests to make them suitable. IMO.
I love these "make you think" videos!
I couldn't agree more. Opposite to you, I have never dated but watching people's (friends and whatnot) dating lives. I've noticed that those who didn't have physical or style (basically superficial) preference tend to have better relationships than the opposite side.
Yeah but first they have to be tall. Then maybe.
IDC how long i date I'll never be attracted to a "fat" person. Sorry. We're humans we like what we like and don't what we dont.
That's why Tangled is great
@@oogaboogass You can never say never
When I first got into kdrama, cdrama, and kpop, I noticed I was attracted to korean men more often. I got worried that my attraction was based on problematic reasoning so I thought about it some more. I realized that it wasn't about them being korean or East Asian, it was about how I liked the trending fashion and hairstyles. That was it. I don't care what race or ethnicity someone is, I just like pretty boys with good hair and a good sense of style. The hairstyles and fashion I'm most attracted to happen to be popular in South Korea. I'm still worried I guess but I don't think my "type" is rooted in unfair biases or fetishization
Omg yes, I really wish Western guys put more effort into their appearance. Obviously the actors in dramas are usually ridiculously good looking but they also are styled really well and may have on a bit of makeup. Would love if men from all over the planet cared about skin care & fashion the way women generally do.
The problem is that style is super subjective especially if you grew up around a certain style of clothing hell hair aswell depends on area for instance im a dude who grew up around dopeboy fashion (designer,jewelry) and locs being the normal/stylish way to dress
Maybe it also has something to do with media representation? Perhaps those Asian dramas and music helped open up your mind to something you didn't realize before? But the fetishization aspect can play a part too of course.
@@femalesupremacistoverlord6800 We wear what's marketed towards us most of the time and what's most convenient and functional. Men's sections in clothing stores are just more drab and plain most of the time. I would say women in the west also don't put in a tone of effort sometimes. Like wearing ugly sweatpants and a ponytail rather than a nice summer dress or something.
@@femalesupremacistoverlord6800 I was a scene kid growing up and women DID seem to appreciate the effort I put into doing my hair, but usually dramas have literally the most gorgeous people to ever walk the earth, men and women 😂
TW: racism, bullying
To add to the conversation, I feel like we rarely think or even realize that our preferences are forced on us by societal standards. From my personal experience (a bit of trauma dump ahead), after I was bullied in school for being asian, for a long time I didn't consider my or any asian facial features as attractive. This has had an impact on my romantic preferences, because asian people looked "weird" to me, and that's a stitty ass thought! And then all of a sudden the anime and K-pop obsession happened and now we're seen as cute and desirable, which is a topic for another day, but it really made me reevaluate my own preconceived notions about beauty as a whole.
At the end of the day, attraction is cool and all, but rigid preferences and idealization are generally not a good foundation for a relationship imo
I agree with what we’re attracted being programmed into us but what’s interesting is how easy it is to realize you don’t actually care like from my personal experience of being around the block a lot(I’m 37) I’ve dated normie dudes who say if someone would have asked me if I would be into a girl that didn’t shave her legs or armpits I would say I’m not attracted to it but then they meet me and are mad attracted and are like oh I guess I don’t care? I thought I did but I actually don’t & it’s that simple. I have never shaved my whole adult life cause sensory issues cause of my autism like I hate the stubble feeling and also cause I’m punk af lol
Had a similar experience but with being black
same, as an asian girl i struggle so much with dating especially white people because 99.9% just dehumanize me
I'm Black and went through something similar. I wasn't outright bullied for being Black or having dark skin, but I grew up wanting to be friends with the white girls in my school so badly and thinking so lowly of the other Black girls in my school, and getting confused about why those white girls never wanted to hang out with me. I also had crushes on white guys I went to school with, but they never liked me back. I also thought lowly of the Black boys at my schools too. Add that to me seeing my father with mostly white women after my parent's divorce, and you get a young Black girl thinking there's something wrong with her because of the way that she looks. It took me such a long time to grow out of that mindset, and I think coming out as bi helped with unlearning that internalized racism and smashing it.
TV really messed up my perception of many races and body types.
I remember saying I "just don't" find certain races attractive and "I must be slim to be loved".
The moment these ideas started changing around me, I started changing too and that's when I knew it wasn't the real me. And the fact that some preferences that made more sense emotionally rather than physically remained cemented the fact.
These days I try to expose myself to people saying different things are attractive. If I feel myself softening, I know the preference is probably imposed. I'm just careful not to force liking someone before I fix such a part of myself.
But the biggest lesson I learned is if you see something a lot on TV/media and you have it as a preference...take some time to evaluate. Try to consider and dig deeper. No race or body type is ALWAYS unattractive. But please don't put actual people in the middle of the process. You don't have to like something you don't.
Also, I'm sorry you had to feel that way.
I think one reason there are people who have rigid "standards" that they call preferences is because they view a dating partner as a status symbol. It is less about a compatible relationship and more about how that other person makes them look. I believe this has always been a part of dating/marriage but has increased with social media.
but what if you remove that social status? would they still have the same preferences?
@@batman5796 I don't think so, I think preferences would end up more vague. If looks are the main thing people are looking for to boost their social status they are not likey to actually find a compatible partner. Without the social status aspect other traits such as personality and common interests would be just as important (if not more important) than looks.
@@TinyGhosty but I find it hard to believe most people actually date for social status. looks are important, but not necessarily because of social status. if you eliminate social status, I think most people would still want to go for an attractive partner
@@batman5796 Never in my comment did I say most people. I said people who have rigid standards for appearance.
@@TinyGhosty yeah I didn't notice that lol
You ever feel like you're too undateable to even have preferences to begin with? I think that was me a couple of years ago and it basically winded up being that no matter how problematic or non-compatible the connection was, whoever found me even remotely attractive was all I could settle for. Like it almost felt like a privilege to even have standards to begin with.
I think I moved past that but am now at a point where I just feel burned out on attempting to date. Feels like theirs too many unwritten rules that you have to follow and literally all I want is someone to talk about random things that interest us and occasionally go out and do stuff with (when I can afford to do so).
damn ur comment hit too close to home😭I relate a lot to feeling undateable but that’s because of a lot of reasons and not just because I think Im “ugly” , one the reasons is that Im so damn lazy to put that much energy into someone and Im broke so I cant really go on a lot of dates lol, anyway I find that u just need a friend dude! u can have fun with a friend and hang out with them while taking about ur interest! and If u ever become close to them, u will never have to worry about all these unspoken rules
@@sunnyshiholaboum..5822 oh I forgot the too broke part I got that too trying to pay off debts. And yeah I also feel like trying to date would take too much effort for me to maintain. I would really like to make more friends or at least feel closer to the few that I have but I guess I struggle with opening up to others. I still feel like I’m too weird to be comfortable expressing myself more. Working on that too. Then comes trying to find places to make friends when everything seems so distant nowadays.
Omg same. I never dated, I came to the conclusion of “well, I might as well as stay single then”. I’m much better now, and it kind of pisses me off how I was mistreated and I thought I deserved it because, in my head, I had no redeeming qualities.
I’ve been there. And I’m sorry. It’s really hard. Unfortunately that desperate energy pushes people away. When people say confidence is attractive, I think they mean that being at peace with yourself as a person is attractive.
For example, I dated a man who was 450 lbs and I was his first real girlfriend.
I found him comfortable and easy to be around because he exuded being comfortable with who he was.
I found out later he had just decided to give up and not try to date anymore.
That took the desperation out and it drew me to him.
He’s married to someone else now and we’re still really good friends.
I'm pretty sure I am to nobody's liking
Something I don't see anyone talking about is how dating preferences are treated in different situations. I've caught myself being FAR pickier on dating apps than I am in person and I have this complaint a lot when I explain to people why I'm tired of dating apps. I can talk to someone for weeks without feeling like I ever know them, but if I meet someone in person, I know in just an hour--sometimes even sooner--if I like someone or not. And for me, liking someone is the key to whether or not I find someone attractive. So in a neutral space where I don't know anyone and feel no personal connection with them, the only thing I have to go on is personal biases which are unfair and probably unhealthy. That's something I'm working on, and I think it's something that a lot of people do unconsciously.
Same in my case. The dude i'm dating right now I would've swipe left, I matched by accident but his attitude was forward and I loved it. Tutns out, we are very attracted to each other
Agree, Online dating has made it so easy for people to see others as just checklists.
Yeah it’s called “chemistry”. You can only feel that when you’re face to face with someone. Also, dating apps are just the new bar scene and you never want to meet your partner in a bar because 99% of the time it never works out.
As someone who's dated outside if my preferences, I have to say it doesn't work for everyone.
I really hurt them because I was forcing being "nice" and "progressive". Not everyone is attracted to everything and getting into a relationship with someone you have to will yourself to like is unfair to them.
Should you be rigid? Still no. You might find you actually don't mind something...or that you're preference was dumb. But at least be open about keeping things casual at first so you are SURE.
Also, I just wanted to add something after reading people's insightful comments. Ask yourself if your preference makes sense. Like ask yourself why do I want this? I think you can even become a better person or at least remove any bigotry from your preference. But I don't think you should ever force dating anyone. They deserve better and you need to work on yourself.
However, I do love you videos💜
yeah, i think the point here was just not to let your preferences get in the way of pursuing someone you actually are attracted too, just because they dont fit those preferences. and if your preferences are actually dealbreakers, to question why thats the case. so i agree, i dont think preferences should be rigid, at that point they aren’t preferences anymore theyre requirements
Thank you for being transparent, Nadine. I understand your point of view👏🏾‼️
@@o.o2920 The first part yeah, just as I said you need to be open. But state that in some way to the person you are considering. You may find what you want is not really what you want. Or it is a deal breaker.
I also don't think there's anything wrong with having requirements for a partner💜
As long as it's not dumb things like hair color, unless maybe you got traumatized or something and you hate blonds(which you should also heal from). For example if you dislike body hair and it grosses you out, don't go out with people who embrace it. You'll always try to change them yet there's someone who will love them as is.
Something like physical touch being their love language, not wanting them to be poor cause you grew up poor...I think that's just stating your needs and knowing yourself and your needs.
I'm open to other view points and to changing my stance though.
@@etherean369 good point! i think that requirements are important as well, though id call them standards. i just meant that preferences, specifically in terms of appearance, shouldnt really be requirements in my opinion, unless theres a valid reason as to why they are. therefore i have to agree with what you said; you shouldnt be with someone who cant "accept" your appearance and will try to change you. my point was criticising the person thats incapable of accepting these things for whatever reason. I think that person should ask themselves why it is they have that kind of s requirement, you know? but at the end of the day everyone has the right to prefer or require whatever they want in a partner, and if they dont want to think about why it is that they have those requirements thats their prerogative.
Yeah, I agree with that. I don’t think it’s fair to people to force yourself to date them just because you don’t want to come off as shallow. Everyone wants to be with someone who finds them attractive. And everyone I know would be extremely hurt to find out their partner doesn’t actually find them attractive.
My issue with dating “preferences” that lean toward necessities is how they bleed into someone's everyday interactions with people in general. This becomes really obvious once someone starts making a long-term relationship their main focus, because they begin casting these preferences like a net over not only potential lovers, but also potential and current friends, relatives and anyone else they meet. Too short? No need to engage in conversation. Not petite enough? Let’s not hang out as much. Not my type? Forget common courtesy.
The net doesn’t just work to “catch” someone; it also blocks everyone else out. And when someone views people they’re not romantically interested in as insignificant, while only looking at a very narrow pool of people through a very narrow lens at that, you realize that this is how discrimination works. You see this all the time in people who say they won't date fat people, for example. They'll go onto bully fat people they meet irl or online, and they'll shame their partners for gaining weight for any reason. So it's not all that harmless; these preferences become integrated into their mindset, which then affects everyone they interact with
If soneone is acting like this, theyre not a good person. Even if you were to fit into their preference youll realize the love is unconditional. Id never want to be around someone like that now, speaking from experience. The thing that makes this bad though is when you have a teacher or boss who acts like this ie favoritism. That can really mess with a person
@@j.6267 I think you mean conditional, not unconditional, but yes it sucks when any person treats you like this and then tries to justify it as just their preference
@@j.6267 Adult love is not unconditional
Agree completely ived had people judge me on appearance luckily I have enough self esteem where it doesn't really phase me.
This isn't true at all. I don't date fat people and I'm not attracted to them, but all my closest friends are fat and overweight. I don't put them down or tell them they need to loose weight. I've dated someone who gained weight in the relationship and I never put them down for it or told them to lose it. This is a dumb generalization of people based on nothing. In my experience this is completely untrue. I'm friends with people who I know I'm not their type physically. You are wrong with the way you think people act
Other people's "preferences" sure come across as fetishizing sometimes, that's all I'm gonna say. A lot of people need to work on their ability to look past a "type" and see the multifaceted unique individual underneath. But seeing people as glorified porn categories is easier....so here we are lol
no one owes anyone else physical attraction. You can't help who you are attracted to. preferences aren't a choice.
the part abt valid vs invalid preferences doesnt really hold water for me because it's so easy to have a preference for "invalid" reasons but cover it up by saying it's actually bc of some "valid" reason. personally i think it's futile to tell people their preference for a certain physical trait is invalid, all we can do is tell people to interrogate the societal standards that give us this preference and do our best to break down those societal standards. even if u believe fully that you only want to date tall buff men or skinny women for a "valid" reason, it is impossible to untangle that valid reason from all of the societal standards that tell us that tall buff men and small skinny women are the best most desirable and attractive people. going after ppl with these preferences is not getting at the source of the issue, we should be focused on eliminating fatphobia and rigid gender roles on a societal level.
also i think this only applies to physical preferences, i dont think any racial preference is valid unless it's a preference for your own race/ethnicity.
thats why i framed the video moreso as advice bc it’s more about having an honest conversation with oneself about the reasons for your preferences, rather than being as much of a commentary on larger social issues
The point of saying a preference is “valid or invalid” is to guilt trip you if you don’t find someone attractive. He says in the beginning “it’s fine if you don’t agree and you’re just gonna date within your preferences anyway” then later on claims it’s “not ok to not work on that” (as in: no, actually you do need to change your dating preferences lol) so which one is it? Because if you wanna be honest, no hoo-dee-dah bs or beating around the bush. You don’t have control over who you’re gonna find attractive. And really the whole point of the video is to say that certain preferences are more justifiable than others, when really there’s no need to be putting people on the spot to explain why they wouldn’t wanna date you (or someone else)… this is an idea that comes from a place of bitterness and is just packaged as some kind of moral lesson he’s teaching us.
@@dm7356 i get where you’re coming from, especially if you were to take an evolutionary/biological standpoint, most preferences can be explained with biology (so we don’t have much control over what we find attractive) and not just because society has made us think these things are attractive, but i guess he was trying to say that we should still be critical about our preferences, especially if you’re very exclusive and rigid about them because humans are more than just these characteristics/qualities that make us attractive(or unattractive). you’re kind of limiting/robbing yourself from forming deep human connections if you’re just so hooked on this idea that ‘this is what i’m attracted to and that’s it.’ i think he is actually saying, yes you need to re-examine your preferences, but i don’t think that’s such a bad thing especially if you’re actually looking for love and looking to form valuable connections you know? but it’s an interesting discussion.
@@beccaaa.x if you’re speaking from the perspective of someone who is not is a position to choose (ie; you may have this or that preference but those people don’t always find you attractive back and will treat you like one of many) then yes, you will have to let some of these preferences go and take someone who’s maybe more like 80% of what you’re looking for, but is a better partner because they will treat you like they actually care and not like you’re replaceable. However this is completely up to you and if you’d rather keep trying to hit home runs and keep striking out, it’s totally your decision and in no way is it “invalid” and really it’s totally arbitrary to pick out certain kinds of preferences as acceptable or not acceptable.
@@dm7356 year-old comment, but god dammit you are one of the only people spittin' facts.
Nobody is gonna sit here and make me feel guilty for liking certain things about another person. it doesn't make any sense....
I think there’s nothing wrong with preferences unless you shame someone for not being your preference. As an example, I don’t want to date heavier people or brunettes, that doesn’t mean I’ll start screaming at random people who fit those descriptions. Instead, I’ll just find someone I’m attracted to.
simple as that. no preference is valid nor invalid.
@@batman5796 i think valid and invalid come off as judgemental, but it is more a question of logical/illogical.
It is important to realise that this isn't to shame the people that have "illogical" preferences, but moreso to have an internal dialogue.
I think his point is that if you think about why you have those preferences, and find some are illogical, you could try nd date outside of those preferences and be happy with someone you wouldn't have considered before
That's not a preference, that's a requirement. Why are y'all incapable of using the English language properly lol
Nobody even has a problem with dating preferences. It's only requirements, that turn into putting others down, this happens quite often
If you refuse to befriend someone for being fat, that's more fatphobic imo.
If you do it as a dating preference I think that's a completely different issue, and not something that's completely based on Beauty Standards alone.
true
True! You don't have to find someone attractive to be their friend, but it's a lot more important in the dating scene.
personally i don't believe having references for height, weight etc is wrong, its YOUR preferences, if you dont like something, then you simply dont like it, no one can force you to. if you choose not to date someone because they're overweight that's entirely your own decision, however, dont go around vocalizing it to people, thats where it becomes an issue.
Except for racial preferences
@@Whitemenhavelittledicks honestly even that as long as you don't vocalize it whatever. if someone isn't attracted to me because they're not attracted to people with my features that go with my race, whatever
@@Whitemenhavelittledicks I feel like it really depends, like it’s reasonable if you wanna date within your own race(usually POC) but completely going out of you way to avoid dating a SPECIFIC race or multiple races is where the lines drawn. People seem to forget preference means to prefer not to avoid other options
And fetishization is another issue entirely
@@lyddig The problem is that many people with racial preferences outside of their own race are fetishizing them, see the race they're attracted to only for harmful stereotypes associated with them and even act disappointed when their date's personality doesn't reflect those.
This is the discourse that I have been waiting to see about dating preferences. By all means, people are allowed to have preferences, physical and otherwise, but a preference is NOT a rigid restriction. Some so-called “preferences” really do demand to be interrogated, dissected and destructed.
i really dislike that button show lol it rubs me the wrong way for some reason
i’m so happy for this video, i completely resonate with your points. i watched a video of someone reacting to tik tok about preferences and she was making some points but was ultimately missing out on the nuances of this conversation then it veered into fatphobia when a tik tok about that came up and i just sighed
for me, i realized that lifestyle and moral standards are far more important to me than any physical preferences when it comes to dating. another harsh thing i found out after dating a while is that it doesn't matter how well-meaning you or your partner are, there will always be a power imbalance if there is a large financial gap in the relationship bc that will bleed into having different lifestyles. great video!
It's so interesting to see how these 'preferences' play out in real life. I lived on a community with both a large white and a large Asian population, and at that time it was super common for a white man to date/marry an Asian woman, but rare to see an Asian man date/marry an white woman. When I question people's preferences, especially when they state they are inflexible about it, I am not trying to force them to date against their preference. I want them I examine what the source of that preference is, and how it may be reinforced by and reinforcing societal standards and stereotypes
What if they spent a significant amount of time learning Asian culture which could be the factor they're attracted to Asian people.
@@christiansnaturestudio6599 I'm not saying anything wrong with inter-racial or inter-cultural relationships. I'm pointing out that one gender combination is way more common than the other.
this video is the first really thoughtful and sincere one I’ve seen about this button clip debacle. I think the point you made about how dating preferences shouldn’t be hard requirements is so true and I feel that most people don’t give their own dating preferences enough thought. Your perspective and this video were very much needed!
i’ve discussed this topic over the years within my online circles and we’ve always heard “preferences don’t develop in a vacuum” and societal beauty standards are sooo harmful and even affect the quality of life for some people
Oh, that’s just what ugly people tell themselves so they can sleep better at night. Like seriously, have you noticed that ones who say that also tend to be single? I’m just saying…
Let people have their dating preferences, because then you know who to avoid.
Be it you aren't their type or they might fetishize you, it's best to know from the get-go before you invest any energy or time into them.
If a guy isn't into black girls why the fuck would I try to change his mind? It's not my responsibility and I wouldn't be dumb enough to go out of my way to bother him anyway.
Let people wave their red flags because it will be easier to filter them out
@@thefridge7335 unintelligent, shallow, objectifying, social validation addicts, porn brained coomers, I could go on but you get the jist
Cut knows exactly how to create controversy, they do it all the time and they knew what they were framing. Finding someone who would show up to a blind date in a cosplay is intentional to say the least. They play on subverting expectations because that why people click.
I said in the live chat that I had to reconcile with myself about why I had current expectations for dating and attraction which are separate things in my mind. I knew my environment, family, friends ect the outside forces in my life played a huge rule. Last year though I had a realization about how much the media I consumed really defined not only what I found attractive about other people or myself
As someone who has been a kpop fan for the past 10 years watching the video made me cringe for several reasons, but one of the big ones is that I know people like her and I kinda was like her in my early-late teens. I can only speak to kpop as I don't watch dramas or anime really, but Kpop specifically is a fantasy machine. Groups pump out boyfriend/girlfriend content all the time to get people hooked. Everything is curated with love and closeness to fans, the kpop industry understands parasocial relationships to a T. So I can see how she and other people have this grand idea ~East Asia~ and their apparently amazing men who do no wrong. I personally never idealized a person simply because they were EA, but to say I didn't take special interest or turn my head more would be a lie and I had to reckon with that. No one wants to be a koreaboo or a fetishist, but if the majority of the media you are purposefully consuming for hours on end for years is attractive EA people, your mind will start to skew a certain way. Not in just your attraction or dating preferences but the things you eat, the people you hang out with, the clothing you wear ect ect. Media consumption is a huge deal like my example is kpop but it's the same for any form of media people choose to partake in.
Also as a queer woman who's kinda recently stepping into my own queerness with a family that isn't the most open, I know many people work on the spectrum of "What I want and what I'm attracted to" vs "What I can bring home to my family and Society™" An unnerving amount of people stick to their dating preferences not particularly because it's what they like or truly want, they're worried about the optics. What level of social capital can I gain from having a partner who looks like this and/or will my family accept me with this person on my arm? This is where the gender binary, patriarchy and white supremacy show up at the scene of the crime.
A good amount of people are scared or get angry when you question their public preferences because these preferences are there to hold up the framework of the ideal which is white cis heterosexual rich Christian able-bodied Beautiful (capitalistic beauty with a capital B) relationship or as close as it can get to that. Anything that diverts from that results in some type of social backlash which if you're already a POC, a woman, and/or LGBT+ ect you're already facing backlash for just existing. That's why in queer relationships, where people are very clearly not a heterosexual couple, there's still this need for there to be the top/masc and the bottom/femme EVEN THOUGH!! it's a queer relationship nothing about it will ever be heterosexual and yet heteronomativty is still embedded into the relationship. There's always a push to strive towards that ideal even if it's far beyond reachable AND not what everyone really actually wants even if people aren't inherently aware of it.
Being able to love and enjoy life with the people you truly love and adorable is a freedom that's not always apparent to people
I also wanted to say this even though this response was already too long. In college I made a good amount of relationships with Korean exchange students and they were all women. There is absolutely no way quicker to destroy every illusion you've even kinda had about Korean men more than befriending Korean women
Probably my favorite comment.
@@Alyssa_MC aw thanks
Dude. Just so well put. I have work to do on what I go for, though I’m not dating now. In my own head I know it’s tangled. Thanks for adding some clarity for me.
@@lane6216 I'm glad I could help
Basically this guy is saying to explore yourself and also explore relationship prospects not just in our rigid perspectives. He's saying if we stay on our rigid perspectives, and scroll through people like we scroll down on Tiktok, we could miss out on really good ways we could work in harmony with people, and that way we can expand our dating pool in a good way. I agree with this guy.
The hug was deceptive. A hug not given out of affection is disgusting.
I mean multiple women sad they “hate short men”. Dude tried to be nice…
I think hugging also has something to do with smell. I read somewhere that we subconciously pick up whether we are genetically compatible with a partner through smell but most especially, kissing. But IDK, maybe he has other ideas or the director asked him to do that.
@@andreahl3494 no. He wanted to find out if she was fat. That's it.
@@andreahl3494 you're completely right but it was probably about the fat thing 😭
@@kimberlycarrigan8824 I was just playing devil's advocate. I.e. trying to look for other POSSIBLE point of views. It doesn't mean I don't agree with the general sentiment that he wanted to find out if they were fat.
I’ve learned in my deep isolation that we’ll never really know what is true to us if we don’t have those lived experiences (at least with preferences but standards too). Great video!
I'm probably the oldest person on this comment thread but as a 37-year-old woman who has been very happily married for 12 years.. I went against all my preferences when my husband and I started dating.. I realized they were just aesthetics but his sense of humor, his compassion, and his loyalty completely superseded any appearance-based preferences I had.. to all the young ones out there, beauty fades but the core of somebody is constant... To all the young people out there that may feel like they're ready for serious commitment.. and look at the soul first... Everything else is a bonus.
I dated him because he has money, just say it's no secret.
That is so adorable and I wish you two the best
Really great point made on how love isn't "precious", great video
I honestly have no problem with preferences, as it’s natural to be impartial to a certain characteristic or feature. But the issue with preferences I find, is how people don’t have “preferences” they have absolutes.
A big proponent as to why I don’t use dating apps, is due to how people on them treat dating as if it’s job qualifications. The idea that you have to meet XYZ in order to discuss ABC with them. It completely undermines the textual meaning of preference, when we treat it as a quality that someone has to 100% meet at any given time.
My preferences are often individual traits rather than something like weight or race or even gender. I love almond shaped eyes, slightly wider nose, wider hips or thighs, a soft tummy, ect ect. (All that my husband has) but my attraction isn't confined to those traits either. I guess I don't understand strict requirements for dating, my preferences can be pretty eclectic.
That, and emotional bonds matter more. I love people with the right personalities. I'm really good at meeting people where they are if our morals align. A more serious, mature type works for me just as well as a silly clownish type. I love a person who can plan things out as well as a person who can be pretty spontaneous. Maybe it's because I'm polyam, but I can see myself with a variety of types of people. I joke often that I don't have a "type" because there are so many things I find attractive
I suppose to put it another way, I like the idea of dating someone shorter than me. I like the thought of them being able to rest their head on my chest while we hug. I also like someone my height (husband) because then neither of us have to crane our heads or tip toe to kiss. I like someone who's taller than me because I like the thought of them resting their face on my head while we hug and the feeling of comfort that would bring. Like not to get publically cheesy, but I see all of these as major positives. I would take all of these at any moment with someone I had a strong emotional bond with
To add, I've loved my husband through multiple sizes. I loved carrying him bridal style when he was at his lowest (we were poor and hardly ate) to at his heaviest now because he's so soft and warm. I find this strict qualifications act to be very strange!! It's like a whole other world to me
I saw your comment, seeing you say you have ‘individual traits’. What happens when those ‘individual traits’ happen to align with a race. For example you like petite, shorter etc people. And it happens that a lot of Asians are like that. Are you fetishizing them or just find most traits you look for in one race. Ofcourse not everyone is same but talking about majority.
@@luka7678 it’s more of seeing them for the preferences than for the race. A fetishiser would say “oh look, an Asian! They’re hot” whereas someone who has a preference would go “oh look, they’re hot *and* Asian!”
@@kurapikakurta1997 haha what? To me those 2 things are the same and it feels to me you missed the point of my comment. I wasnt talking about being attracted to someone just because they are Asian. Like those same features a white person can have. Its the same its just that its more common with Asian people.
When I was still dating, I felt ambiguously about dating trans and nonbinary people. However, after a while online dating and just not finding a good fit, I finally said "to hell with it" and decided to go through all my high percent matches and just going with my gut on whether or not I thought the person looked nice and if their match percentage was high enough and sending them a wink. One of the people I went with my gut on in that "hail Mary" was someone that I'd thought was really cute before but had passed over because I just didn't know how I felt about dating an enby. We ended up talking, going on an amazing first date, and seven years later, we've been married five years (and *I* came out trans 😂). In hindsight, I realize a lot of my dating struggles came down to me overthinking things a lot. What ultimately has made this relationship work has been shared values, complementary personalities, mutual respect, and yes, a baseline level of physical chemistry...though if you spend any amount of time with someone... They're going to change! That skinny person could get fat. Both of y'all will get wrinkles. Hair will change. Shit, your person could figure out gender shit they hadn't realized earlier in their lives and transition! There has to be a reason other than looks for why you're with someone if you're going to be with them long term. My spouse's profile pic had them smiling directly at the camera, and there's a way their eyes sparkle when they're happy that just makes my heart flutter. It's less of an appearance thing and more of a vibe and I love it.
Anyway, my best advice is to trust your gut and find a person with whom you can have mutual respect and chemistry, regardless of whatever commodified preferences you may think matter.
I think what the real truth deep down is that almost all of our dating preferences are ableist.
I just finished the video, and I have some thoughts. I think that when someone has certain dating preferences, like "I want them to be tall", or "I want them to not be fat", which aren't preferences that I certainly have. But I think that people have those preference because that's what they're attracted to. And I think that to a certain extent, people cannot control what they're attracted to. From what I understand about romantic love, a lot that's necessary for it to work is romantic and physical attraction, and some people simply will not find certain traits attractive. I think people have the right to exclude certain people from their dating pool, whether their intentions or the reasons behind it are right or not. In the end, people are going to date whoever they want in whatever way makes them happy. So I don't think I agree with what you feel are "valid" and "invalid" preferences. Great video though!
True
What I find interested about preferences: your preferences are considered valid by others based off of your appearances.
A person, who is conventionally attractive? Their preferences are respected and accepted. Some people might crack a few jokes, but overall it is respected.
A person, who isn’t conventionally attractive: they are “humbled” or told to revise their tastes.
Personally don't have any preferences when it comes to physical appearances. Maybe because I'm pan and I don't want to pursue a relationship with someone unless I feel a true connection with them.
I still have a bit of this video left to finish but so far, I love your take on this topic! c: Personally, I think it's ok to have preferences as long as you're flexible, but it's more important to have standards. Something my little sister always says is "Don't settle for less". Finding someone who matches your preferences is nice, but if they don't match your standards then it won't be a fulfilling relationship. Being flexible is also important because if you find someone who matches or goes above your standards but doesn't match your preferences 100%, then being flexible can be great because you'll settle with someone who can potentially make you happy. I also love your take on how love isn't "precious". I agree. It isn't perfect. It can be great, but there are definitely times where you'll feel awful.
This comment is already long, so I'll stop here. But thanks for this video, Elliot! I'm happy you made this video. If you take a break next week, enjoy your break!
i dont think ill be taking a break ive gotten some rest in and feel excellent
@@elliotsangestevez That's great to hear! Can't wait to see the next vid :D
Just had a feminist philosophy class about how our desires are politically affected. The challenge of interrogating our preferences is to be open-minded to how our desires operate along oppressive social hierarchies but also not insinuate that anyone deserves to be desired. You nailed it. Loved the video.
Fat person here! Perfectly happy for you using the word fat as what it is - a descriptor (not an insult) and appreciate you explaining your reasons behind doing so ❤ New to your content and going through your recent uploads and this is only cementing my decision to subscribe and keep looking into your work. Thanks 🙏
personally i don’t think dating preferences should be voiced espically to the internet. People are mean and will use those preferences to invalidate you, especially if you’re not the ideal beauty standard. It’s really not something other people need to know unless you’re going to date them. Keep it to yourself.
I think as people get older, they become more rigid with their preferences because they know from experience what works and what doesnt. like for instance, for me, being communist and atheist are a huge part of who I am. I've tried dating guys who are theist but not religious at all and arguments still boil down to "god did it" as just the reason for anything.
thankfully I found my guy who believes in those core values and we've been together for 6 years, we have our differences, but I feel as long as those non shallow core values are similar or match nothing else should matter like looks.
Atheists are cool, anti-theists however are some of the most obnoxious motherfuckers around and there’s a reason why most people don’t invite them to get togethers. I swear to materialism, they will find anything in a conversation and turn it into how they believe religion is evil. Good for you, here’s a gold star and a cookie for being enlightened lol
I get this. I usually feel it's important to know where a preference comes from to determine if it's valid or maybe invalid. As someone who's mentally ill and struggles with their mental health, I 100% understand if someone has a preference to date a person who either isn't mentally ill or is in a healthy place. I think the reasoning behind it is where it gets tricky. Does the preference stem from them feeling EVERY person with mental illness or struggling with it is "crazy" or "unhinged" or does it come from a bad past experience where they were raised by someone who didn't take care of their mental health or they're working on their own and feel they wouldn't be able to stay healthy in that relationship?
A few years ago I used to say I didn't want to date someone who had mental illnesses like me cause I know it's hard and I felt I just couldn't handle it, but now that I'm in therapy and working on getting better my preference is I don't want to date someone who isn't taking care of themselves. I will date someone who's like me and has struggles like me (after all, they just get it) but they need to be actively keeping themselves healthy whether it's medication, therapy, staying active, etc. But I will absolutely not date someone who knows they're ill and refuses to get any kind of help because I know that'll just drag me back into a bad place.
Sorry for the novel comment. I just think the reasoning behind the preferences matter and that sometimes not all of them are set in stone and can change as we grow as people.
I really like your perspective. Most videos I’ve watched on this topic are just, “If you prefer xyz, you’re a bad person.” And I think that’s unproductive. As a teenager, I was bullied at school and felt alone. I found Jpop, Kpop, Asian dramas, etc. and as someone who grew up in a predominately white area, I had never really met Asian guys, so I was attracted to them. I’d hang up posters in my locker of my favorite singers/actors, and then I was criticized or teased for liking Asian guys. I think it made me more protective over my own feelings, and the fact that people of my race (white) were bullying me might have also pushed me away from wanting to date anyone I knew around me. I found that if people found out I thought certain Asian guys were attractive, they’d be weirded out by it or think I was strange. There’s a whole racist idea in media that Asian guys are unattractive and undateable. I ended up mostly dating Asian guys, but I also had crushes on lots of different types of people. I don’t feel like my “preference” was very rigid, but I feel defensive sometimes when people call out white women for liking Asian men. As you said, you don’t know the person and you’re only seeing one aspect of them from a video, etc. I ended up moving to Japan and then to Korea, and my husband is Korean. I know many people like me who are married to Korean or Japanese men, for example, so now it’s just normal for me. This whole topic is really interesting but also silly. I agree with you that if your preferences are too rigid, you’re only hurting yourself.
I agree with your points, but I think we also need to bring up the safety aspect of certain preferences. Like T4T people for example- someone may find trans features attractive or feel closer to someone with a shared experience, but it can also be a safety precaution (especially for non passing or otherwise marginalized trans people)! They’re much less likely to be hatecrimed or assaulted or *killed* by a fellow trans person than a cis person, and this is true for a lot of other groups of oppressed people. This is also an important part of why some people won’t date someone with wildly different political views than them.
I find it really hard to have a strong opinion on clips like these because, as you said, there is so much artifice in these shows, the premise, how the participants are selected and prepped, their motivations other than "finding love", the story being told in the editing etc. But I'd say this (which you also touched on a bit): There is, imo, a huge difference between attraction - experiencing it, or the lack of it, processing that feeling etc - and something as deliberate as formulating a list of dating preferences and broadcasting it to the world in a certain way.
Thanks Elliot, I like your more research-y stuff a lot, but with topics like these, I think even just focusing on personhood has a lot of value in itself.
Mannn I don't have many preferences, literally, if you're decently attractive and treat me well, I'll fall for you.
Obviously there are characteristics that I find more attractive in people than others, but by no means anything that doesn't make me interested.
I second this
I really appreciate the thought that went into this video - I really like the challenge you put out there for us to look inside ourselves and challenge our own thoughts instead of making assumptions about two particular strangers on the internet.
Definitely food for thought for me!
A preference is something you like, but can live without. "I like red heads but my wife is blonde." A bias is something that you only accept and exclude everything else. "I only date skinny women." "I only date people with green eyes." A fetish is something that you need to be sexually gratified. "I'm into Asian men (basically how that woman broached the topic of her "preferences") "I love my chocolate kings.".
We mis-term the word preference when people really have a fetish or a bias, because preferences are things you like, not requirements.
Typically all these mis-termed preferences have to do with physicality. Rarely is "I have a bias to smart people" contested. Or a preference is "I like someone who cooks Italian food."
That being said, not all biases or fetishes are "bad", it's just social exclusion in certain dynamics of society (weight, skin color) we have chosen to accept as a "preference" when they are not.
As a pansexual non-binary person, I’ve come back and rewatched this video, because I’ve had people be attracted to my “feminine side”, and some to my “masculine side” until they find out I’m neither.
This always struck me as odd because, they would be attracted to me all up until they knew how I identify. Not to blame anyone for anything, but it made me really stop and think about my own preferences, particularly around the aesthetics of a person, rather than who they are.
This is great stuff, Elliot ! Thank you for this 🧜🏼♀️🪬🧜🏼♀️
This is very interesting because I had a very set type, (shortish with higher contrast features). And the one time I was attracted to someone outside of my physical preferences (lower contrast features and very tall) we ended up falling in love and getting married. I think that having an attraction to an “outlier” in your preferences is a good sign of personal chemistry which is what lasts over time unlike being physically attractive.
At the same time I don’t think there is anything wrong with having a type. Almost everyone I know whether they admit it or not has a type. I see my friends dating slight variations of the same personality and/or appearance over and over. I think it’s human nature.
i just discovered your channel and decided to binge and ?? oh my god ???? thank you so much for sharing ur content and insights, u honestly got me thinking from new perspectives about this stuff
So many excellent points! I really resonate with your final thoughts especially. I've found with myself that the times I've been more rigid about my preferences have been when I'm thinking of people from a more selfish perceptive, as in 'what can they do for me' as opposed to a more open, compassionate curiosity about who they are as a person and an excitement to get to know them. Basically, I like who I am better the freer I am of 'preferences' and I've found relationships and life in general to be much more fulfilling that way. We're all way more than a list of traits, EXACTLY!
An additional thought I've had is that monogamy might play a huge role in making people's preferences seem so important. I love "love and attraction are not precious". I think the paradigm of monogamy adds significant pressure to preferences and turns then more into 'musts' for people.
I enjoyed how candid you were in this video. It felt similar to in-depth conversations I'd have (and struggle through) with my friends talking about all sorts of issues and experiences we'd have in life. Aside from its impact on considering this topic in my own relationships, its also helped me reflect on portrayal's of relationships in my writing. Appreciate the brain work, Elliot.
Being against using the word fat is honestly just the worst type of oversensuality. Of course you shouldnt randomly tell people theyre fat but using different words simply undermines the health issues that go along with it. (Again, being fat doesnt have to mean its unhealthy and everyone got some unhealthy habits but i sometimes get shit on for smoking and whatever so why is weight treated differently)
I've been married 19 years and I think back to my preferences (tall was most of it because I'm tall and it was a Thing growing up because I was taller than most of the guys) and my requirements (not conservative, not republican, not a jerk about religion, willing to learn from mistakes) and I married someone who is quite a bit shorter than me, but met the more important requirements based on what I knew I could live with long term, and honestly chuck the preferences in the bin.
There is no requirement to date or love any specific person for any person. But being actively shitty to people because they don't meet your "requirements" is completely unnecessary. I didn't meet my husband's preferences either, but I met his requirements. I think a lot of people make a huge mistake basing relationships that are supposed to be lifelong on physicality.
Physical traits WILL change. If someone gets pregnant, their weight and shape are going to change. If you live long enough you'll eventually be disabled in one way or another. My entire gender changed while we were married, and he grappled with that for a bit and then decided that I was more important to him than his preconceptions of who he would be married to. When we married I was able-bodied and perceived as a woman and pretty active. And everything about that has changed, but he still wants to be married to me.
I feel like people who fixate on the physical side of things are very likely to end up unhappy in the long haul.
Most of the people I know who were skinny as young adults are fatter now. That HAPPENS. Unless you want to pull a DiCaprio and chuck your partner every few years, which is gross, then getting your mind around the fact that human bodies have adipose tissue that changes over time is probably a better idea for your longterm happiness AND ESPECIALLY the longterm mental health of your partner.
One of my high priorities as a human being is to try not to be other people's trauma.
I took years off of dating to get my head around what I wanted from my life without that pressure going on. And it was one of the best things I could have done. When I started dating again, all of the active "trying to date" was pointless. When I went out and started doing things I enjoyed and making contact with like-minded people, I made friends, and then friendship turned into my lifelong relationship.
Weirdly enough, I met my husband at church. Which sounds contrary to my requirements... except that it was a UU church. We sang in the choir together. I met him when I was 27, and we didn't even start dating until I was nearly 30.
Thank you the video, but also thank you for bringing up the idea of "dating requirements"! Some people set up requirements and call them "preference" either out of ignorance or because they don't want to get any flak. Mainly when those requirements in disguise as preferences, don't generally affect the quality of a relationship that much (size, color, ethnicity, fashion style...etc). I think that as you've said, once people (especially young ones) start to differentiate between what do you need/ necessary in their relationship vs what they can live without, they'll start to realize just how childish or messed up some of their so called preference are. Although my pessimistic side doesn't think that will help at all since we(humans) are volatile self-centered babies who are doomed to always find a way to fuck a good thing up LOL
I love the way you talk about these things, with nuance, and empathy, and so much thoughfulness. You are so mature, and kind, and I really respect you. This was a delight to listen to. Thank you. This is the first video of yours I've seen, and I clicked because the title drew me in, but I'm subscribing to hear more of your thoughts. Wow.
I agree so much, that the main problem is, people don't like to be corrected. It is an uncomfortable feeling, and getting defensive is natural. Especially when the criticism is done harshly, which is sadly the case on the internet. But it's possible to come back to it, possibly alone, to give said criticism some thought, and grow and change. Instead many people double down because they don't want to admit to having been wrong. So they just keep being wrong and twist logic to convince themselves they are right. It's... disappointing really. And doesn't bring society forward. These days if one says they're on the fence about something, or have a nuanced middle ground opinion, they get backlash from both extremes for not being fully on their side. It's... weird.
You have a lot of good points. I ABSOLUTELY agree that we should distinguish dating preferences & dating _requirements._ As in the definition you cited, a preference is just a particular liking, not a requirement- & NOT a hatred of other things. I think if you're slagging off people who don't fit your "preference", it's not a preference- it's prejudice, & I'm sick of people saying otherwise.
Dating is a special situation, cos attraction is a thing, but racial "preferences" make me uneasy. I'm white so I dunno how it feels, but I've heard many POC say they hate it, & I can see why. It's kinda nuanced, cos race/ethnicity affects your looks, & I can understand being attracted to people of a certain race _more often_ just cos they're more likely to have certain features- you like short, slim, dark-haired girls, so you might notice Asian girls more often. I just mean thinking someone's hot at first glance cos they're your type tho, & that's all- the rest of the time you relate to people as individuals & human beings regardless of race.
If someone's generalising an entire race like they're all the same tho, or _specifically_ going after that race- & especially if it's based on a horrible stereotype like "submissive Asian girl"- then I'm not a fan of their attitudes. I guess the nearest I've experienced is an Indian guy in a vid who was desperate to "pull a white female", & just... someone only wanting me for my race is actually the opposite of a compliment? And that's without all the other potential ickiness of a white person "preferring" some other race.
As a curvy/chubby person who's been fat a couple of times (psych meds suck), if someone didn't want to date me cos they found my size/weight unattractive, I wouldn't call it "fatphobia" or be offended. I would if they insulted me or other people for it, or if I was treated unfairly based on weight, but again, attraction is a thing- like, not dating women doesn't make gay guys misogynists.
I also agree that gender roles are bs- they make _everyone_ unhappy.
Damn I agree with all of your points 100%
@@Mienarrr Oh good- I want to be accepting & tolerant, but I think some things shouldn't be accepted or tolerated cos they cause harm... I'm open to re-thinking things if people educate me tho.
you put all the thoughts i've had about this topic into words, and all the points i hadn't even though of.
I think this was well articulated and I’m glad you covered all possible sides to the best of your knowledge. It’s a very wise perspective that I’m glad you shared!
I am a white man with blue eyes but I'm attracted to women with dark eyes and dark skin. I don't have a logical reason for this, it's just a matter of what physical features I do or do not find attractive. But should that not matter? We all know that neither straight nor gay people control that they simply have no sexual attraction to everyone of a certain gender. I understand that dating preferences are not the same thing as sexual orientation, but to what degree does anyone control that they simply are not attracted to certain people?
Gender attraction is not anywhere close to being attracted to one's race or skin
Wanting dating someone primarily for their race/skintone alone is weird, very weird especially for a white person. White people have a terrible history fetishizing dark skin folks while still holding racial hierarchy.
it could be due to racist fetishization
Elliot, you made a distinction here, between preferences and requirements, that I think is important to acknowledge when we choose to hold these preferences dear.
Sorry to be too real for some people here but you can’t loop everyone that doesn’t want to date fat people in the « society has conditioned you into thinking fat people aren’t worthy/attractive » rhetoric.
Sometimes try to get out of your American societal context and explore other societies… it’ll help you understand that in other cultures being fat is being PRAIZED and CRAVED but even in those societies there’s a lot of people that DON’T want to date fat people. So for that person that clearly hasn’t been influenced by his society to think fat people are ugly, what would be your argument ?
From this dating experiment, people choose to go the path of « this guy doesn’t like fat women because of society’s brainwash and he doesn’t care about the woman’s feelings ».
But open your eyes, what if he just is not attracted to them. What if, forgive my language, his genitalia doesn’t respond to her ?
You can’t be but hurt and call the fat phobia card every time someone refuses to date a fat person (specifically a fat woman). I don’t see people throwing fists when the same fat woman doesn’t seek alike fat men or when more than a few women won’t date shorter men.
Should society coin shortphobia just because a lot of women prefer dating taller men ? I don’t think so.
Dating preferences are inherently exclusionary and ofc people are going to be hurt. However, do you expect people to date you just so your feelings can be protected and your self esteem comforted ?
I agree, obesity isn’t very attractive. However, I think chubby is fine (like around 160)…that and when you’re hitting it from behind, the ripple effect becomes hypnotic lol
That they need to give a good reason for why 😭
When I say I have a preference for thick women or BIG BUTTS, it's not immovable, and I have no answer in the vein of "because skinny women are *blank*". It's always going to be "I like jiggly butts, I like the way they look bending over and in pants, I like wide hips, I like to cuddle with these women more, they are more likely to get me to go out of my comfort zone etc.
I almost never shit on skinny women, I've dated and slept with skinny women, my longest relationship was with a skinny woman, and I've never cut someone out for not being that preference, because it's a preference.
The only really valid dating requirements are going to be in ACTUAL sexual dynamics, and values.
If you're a pacifist, it's going to be hard to date a serial killer or tyrannical mass murderer, like these values are so fundamentally broken, it really doesn't matter how much they fit some physical box checklist, the relationship is built on pure hedonism, and is doomed for failure.
I've never seen this ever, a man can get hard from a kiss 😂
Yes, short phobia is a thing 😎 I mean it's a stupid fucking term, but I've genuinely been treated like absolute shit for my height and I've had to adopt VERY angry and unhinged behaviours to be safe in society, because men are only ever on edge when you're unpredictable and carry weapons as a short dude, that gets labeled as "short men syndrome" when it's simply a product of having to remain safe lol
Also, learn what a "preference" is and what a "requirement" is. You are not using these words properly.
Dating preferences are almost always a form of self validation
I’ve been widowed for almost two years now. I’m just starting to think about what dating might look like for me if I would choose to do it again.
For me, it comes down to this, I want to be safe, with another person, to dialogue about my own views and experiences. That’s it. I want to hear what they have to say and express what I have to say. Over and over again. With no judgement. Just an open dialogue trying to better understand ourselves and each other.
That's one of the most mature opinions I've seen on this, cheers
@@Redsky973, thank you. :) Cheers back.
To be fair I think what someone here said about dating preferences vs. dating requirements is very true. I think its perfectly fine to have a preference its where it gets to a hard line for you is when its bad imo.
I‘m Bisexual and I find myself prefering to date men taller than me and women shorter than me. There might be some psychological reason I could unpack but do I really need to? I dont think I am hurting anyone in having that preference. That being said, it has happened that I have dated people outside of my preference for a while and it was still completely fine, I just usually dont go for it.
Its a very nuanced topic though, so thank you for your interesting take!
Personally I think people get so offended by people saying their preferences (invalid or not) are problematic is because who are you to say who I can and can't want to date when it doesn't involve or affect you.
13:00 if there isn't a kid in the corner of the restaurant doing homework or on an ipad then i don't want the food.
Awesome way to start an important conversation on self reflection. I love how you just want to share thoughts as a growing human being. Questioning is a part of growth!!
Also made me happy that you put "the" before Philippines since that's the correct way to say it 😂
I think that having preferences or "a type" is fine as long as you are able to acknowledge the psychological and societal influences that led you to having those preferences.
For example, I am a cis woman who has always loved scrawny guys. I'm not into muscles, I've always gravitated towards super skinny lanky dudes. It wasn't until adulthood that I really forced myself to think about WHY, and I realized that, unconsciously, I associate muscular men with aggression and physical abuse. Some women really like buff guys because those men are seen as strong protectors who can keep their partner safe, but I only see them as men who could potentially kill me with their bare hands if we get into an argument. This realization helped me understand that most of my relationships with men, even the men I like, are intrinsically based on fear and mistrust. It sucks to admit that, but it's true.
That being said, all those realizations are kind of meaningless now because last year I came out as gay 😅.
I kinda laugh when people talk about "physical preferences" as if it's not largely rooted in fatphobia.
I am thin, but I am terribly unhealthy. Alc/cigs/weed/junk food lol. I dated an older guy, a body builder, who would say he preferred me to women his age because women his age "didn't take care of themselves" and I was "young and fit". Fit? No lol I am just thin. I have met so many fat people who are legitimately healthier than me that I can't help but laugh at that cognitive dissonance.
That being said, and I'm glad another commenter pointed this out, I prefer dating within the black community. Dating outside of it has led to some weird experiences. I'm still attracted to non black people but it's just easier to be with someone who understands that facet of my existence.
Edit- this NUMBNUT was in medical school and knew I was smoking a pack a day. Idk y'all, I was young and horny, I'll never validate a man like that again I promise 😔
Lol its not “rooted in fatphobia” its natural and its always been. Its in our genes to always look for certain traits. Like being obese=unhealthy and unhealthy=turn off cause you want best for your offsprings (even tho times are different now, we are still animals) Looks dont always show everything but its easy to see that on someone obese that they are unhealthy but its hard to see on someone who is skinny (not underweight) that they are not healthy.
No one is owed relationships or sex, period. Short men aren't owed relationships; fat women aren't owed relationships; bald men aren't owed relationships; incels and femcels aren't owed relationships etc. It doesn't have to be rational, or anything. No one, I repeat, no one is owed a relationship or sex.
my preference is to get to know the person on a deeper level before making decisions
I feel this way about racial “preferences” in particular. When that preference excludes a whole group of people, there is something insidious there. A preference should be “i like x more than y but if I meet a y that meets all of my needs/standards, ill go with y”. Not “i will never date y because *insert racist tropes/stereotypes*”. And 9 times out of 10 racial preferences(aside from preferring your own race) are doused in racist ideas.
But why would u want to date a person who excludes whole group of people anyway?
I think sometimes we have sexual preferences and unexpressed needs that we don’t always understand, and we should try not to judge others or ourselves for having them. Our own and others wants and needs might seem silly or shallow to ourselves and others but they’re still valid.
i think that this video is very well said and you made some really great points! thank you so much for this.
Maybe things like attraction and love aren't precious, but this video sure is. As a demisexual woman living in this messed up society, I feel like you raised and dissected some really important topics that people don't really talk about. We mix up having values and principles we stick to, but we actually prove to have an extremely superficial way of thinking. And so, we end up drifting far away from self-betterment.
P.S. I appreciate all your previous videos where your standpoints were not far off from what a Sociology scholar would teach 👏🏻 but this one has been delivered with such grace and thorough judgement, I enjoyed every second of it.
Thanks for creating and posting relevant, interesting and unique content! You're what a "social justice warrior" should actually be, haha.
I feel like you're allowed to find whatever you find attractive attractive whatever your reasoning and I think you're negating the fact that people have always had preferences for what they find and who they find more attractive than somebody else
Maybe an idea for a video would be something along the lines of why nuanced discussions and complex issues are not engaged with in good faith - why is it so hard for us to have honest, deep, and difficult conversations about things that are really important?
For example, look at the whole Taylor Swift controversy in her latest video regarding her even using the word "fat" in reference to herself. Like, how are we going to make the world better and tackled really wicked problems like climate change is we can't even talk about how women's bodies are policed, judged, critiqued, and always found wanting no matter what - it is messed up. Half of the population deals with some aspect of this cluster of issues and we can't even have a civil conversation about it - it is heartbreaking and demoralizing.
Anyway, if you want more info on the Taylor Swift thing, I would recommend the Funtie Times video about it - she said a lot of things about the backlash to TS that I was wondering about myself. (Besides, it a hot topic right now, so the algorithm will love it. :P)
Love your channel.
I'm someone who is asexual and has felt romantic attraction a small handful of times, but I do like to look at the whole preferences phenomenon as someone who is outside of the dating world and chill with "dying alone"
I tend to notice for the people tend to go against their preferences more often than they admit, *especially* age preferences a lot of people will date above their "max"
Which was always a bit funny to me cause for me my age preference is my rigged preference, I will not go above 7 years cause that is my eldest sister's age and that would feel weird to date someone her age, I mean I'm very aroace so there's a slim chance I'll develop feelings stronger than aesthetic attraction for someone above my max to begin with so there's a small chance I'll ever have to face that dilemma
But ya, great vid I may never understand the dating world but I will try lol
Agreed, I have mostly experienced aesthetic attraction as an aroace. I have preferences that I guess could be considered closed minded, despite me not really judging who I interact with. Still I'm most happy not dating and just admiring who I am attracted to from afar. My acquaintances want me to learn what it's like to love but I swear I will never be able to 😅
I'm ace and have an aesthetic preference of what I think is cute or beautiful in a person, but those preferences end up having absolutely no hold on my romantic attraction because I am not attracted to people's physicality and have only ever dated friends that have become close enough for me to develop feelings for over a (long) period of time. So it's interesting that I have preferences or things I deem nice to look at, but they actually have nothing to do with my dating life.
I would find it disingenuous if I have a partner who is not physically attracted to me and also expect a physical sexual relationship especially if he is not physically attracted to me. I would also not be comfortable dating someone who I just don't find attractive.
Fatness is not just about the physique but also health and limitations of activities because of their size. I would not want to date a fat person because I would not be attracted to them and also because of limitations in activities.
i think that a lot of the time it can just come down to whether the preference comes from a place of prejudice or something like a want for mutual understanding, which is why many people prefer to date people of similar cultural backgrounds/life experiences.
Basically aaall of what you said, yes! Thank you! I totally get if people have certain patterns of what they tend to initially gravitate toward or whatever, but it's weird to let it rule your life.
I see people say things like "oh I tried to date outside my preference and it went so badly because I just wasn't attracted to them", and it feels like they think it's a hall pass to enable their personal prejudices, instead taking a more reasonable approach. Like, maybe you just didn't have chemistry with that one specific human. That's normal as hell, and also happens with people you might have initial biases toward. Be real. Like you said, people are more than just one "thing".
I dunno, maybe that's the neurodivergent bisexual in me haha. I'm more into ~vibes and if they seem like cool, good people. 😎
i’m a girl and i’d likely do the same thing as that guy. my only dating requirement outside of personality is healthy weight. am i fatphobic? yes, i genuinely have an actual fear of fat, i’ve struggled with anorexia for years and feel like vomiting if i’m forced to look at fat. i’m not capable of being attracted to someone of a higher weight. i won’t treat them poorly, i’ll happily be friends if we click well together, i don’t see how it’s wrong of me. it’s not like i’m holding someone else to a standard that i don’t meet, i am a healthy weight now but i work hard to eat well and exercise to stay that exact weight. i don’t see how that’s WRONG of me or why i should work on that requirement?
Wow how are you still alive if looking at fat makes you want to vomit?
you're not wrong. Most people may not wanna admit it, but dating really BIG people isn't on anyone's wishlist. Fat people don't even wanna date each other.
Harshly treating anyone is wrong, but when you're lookin' for a serious relationship, it makes sense to be somewhat picky.
I think that we also have to consider why we date in the first place. Is it that we want someone who will permanently (or maybe even momentarily) be with us and help us grow as a person and make us genuinely happier or are we wanting someone we find hot to have sex with? Like I understand wanting to feel attraction but when I think of a relationship I think I'm gonna be with this person hopefully for the rest of my life and kinda want someone to make getting old not feel like a death sentence. I think too many of us put the outward appearance over the companionship aspect and it really doesn't make for lasting relationships.
I've been thinking a lot about this kind of thing and I loved this take 🖤
you’re quicky becoming a favorite channel of mine
I feel like sometimes me being open minded is me not having self respect.
I love this video.Thank you so much
why is there a discussion on preferences in the first place?
If one is not willing to eat chinese, even if their reasons are invalid, is anyone going to shove fried rice down their throat?
If one is not willing to date a person with attribute x, if the reason behind this preference is invalid, is this person allowed to force themself on the one?
In truth, my take on this matter is that any discourse on preferences is inherently flawed. Especially regarding dating, sex, and more so love. Most of the time, we are not choosing people like products on the shelf of a supermarket, rather we share experiences, thoughts, a part of our lives: we realize we fell only after the fall.
as a person who dated a larger guy i really didn’t care cuz i mean why should i yk ? he wasn’t like GINAT but yk alittle chubby but where i kinda started losing attraction was when he showed little to zero interest in his health like he would ONLY eat fast food NEVER ONCE was opened to the idea of eating a vegetable even if you could dip into anything nothing and i started to see him kinda lose himself i didn’t bring it up much maybe once or twice cuz i was worried but it made me uncomfortable, but does that make me fatphobic ? no i just would preferably be with someone who cares about their health. do they have to be skinny? no i actually don’t mind but if they eat horribly then it just kinda grosses me out :/
edit: i forgot to mention he wouldn’t drink water i had to force him to drink one bottle a day
This is a refreshing take, and really thoughtfully composed. I'm glad you're holding space for these conversations and appreciate your thoughts.
I'm a bi/queer Asian woman and have thought very intentionally about the people I will put myself out there to consider as a partner. There are people of certain demographics whom I will not choose to date ('unpreferences', I suppose), not because of anything inherent to their respectively shared group characteristics, but because most members of those groups have been socialized to think in certain harmful ways about the intersections of my/their own identity. Dating is exhausting as it is, and I simply don't have the energy to be parsing out who secretly believes certain things that are antithetical to what I believe in. If someone of those 'unpreferred' groups happens to prove me wrong, I would be all the happier for them/us.
Especially given the pandemic and all the racism and bigotry and fascism happening around us, I am extremely careful about who I choose to engage with. Because I'm tired. It's a fucking bummer to find out someone who's totally on board on feminism turns out to be secretly fetishizing, or someone who is 'anti-racist' but also turns out to be a transphobe. Unfortunately I've seen too many harmful patterns of socialization among certain demographics. I don't have the time or energy to teach people how to not be a bigot, so people of those groups would have to prove otherwise to me before I would consider them a romantic prospect.
I feel this on a personal level.
This video is very refreshing to hear because i was starting to feel like i was the only one who's dating "preferences" were very lax and flexible. I'm a straight dude and i'm a little short, not too short (i'm about 5'7) and i've dated really tall and short chicks and bigger and slimmer chicks and i've never cared but so many people are so fixated on small things and won't be flexible with them. I'm lucky i haven't been rejected or pushed away for my height but i understand how that's a big thing lots of short dudes face and i think it's just a bit silly, like im not mad idc at the end of the day but it feels no one has really good reasons for their preferences or at least good enough for them to be so rigidly enforced. But i will say as a short dude i can say that even though i've not experienced such things myself i find myself feeling insecure about my height every so often all down to the things i see around me and online. But thank you for this video, it's reminded me there are still sane people in the world ahahha
I’ll admit almost didn’t stay till the end but you def had a lot of gems in this vid 😮💨👌
Mad respect for your t-shirt. Those books were cool!
i dont know if i missed it but i dont think he mentioned that the girl touched up the guy and that nobody cars about that.
big fan of this type of video. absolutely not weird, keep it going guy
cant tell if this is sarcastic but either way thanks
@@elliotsangestevez not sarcastic at all my dude u make great points. i was responding to 33:24 when you said 'weird video'. i dont think its weird at all. You made points that resonated with me specifically about how we constantly change and how society changes our views towards relationships. it helped me learn a lot and i hope you keep making these kinds of videos
I could be way off as I haven’t seen the original video in its entirety, but something else that stands out to me is that the point of these experiments is not see or know much about the person you are having the blind date with (similar to the singing show the voice where it is just about the vocals not what the contestant looks like): why would you want to participate if you have specific physical preferences? (I am not referring to any specific people in the video, just a general thought)