Jedi Knight: Jedi Outcast, Jedi Academy | 2021 Review
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ย. 2024
- Jedi Knight, Jedi Outcast, Jedi Academy. Two games from Raven Software about Jedi doing Jedi things (mostly combat, it turns out)
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September 2003. I completed Jedi Academy on PC. I still remember that final part where Kyle says to Jaden “There’s a whole galaxy out there, ready to get back out there?”
11 Year old me was excited, thinking of all they could do with the next instalment…..
19 Years later, I’m still waiting…..
Pain.
Amen
At least we got to follow Jaden in the comics
@@RageUnchained tbh those comics arent that great. And this is coming from somebody who loves Lucas/Legends era star wars.
Rip I am the exact same age
One of my favorite things in Jedi Outcast was when the rain hit the saber. I'm still blown away by the fact that game came out in 2002.
The ea battlefront doesn't have that effect that's how shitty it is ...
I remember the first time I saw that detail the first time; I thought "oh dang, imagine all the details they will add in games in the future". Who'd've thunk that's as good as it got
In case anyone is confused: when there was rain in Jedi Outcast/Academy, light saber emmited small steam particles to simulate rain dropplets hitting the lightsaber and evaporating. It still looks realistic and cool.
that’s the only thing visually impressive about the game. This was of the most uninspired game I have ever played. Playing it after Dark Forces II was a huge let down. For those saying the game came out in 2002, Rogue Squadron II came out in 2001…
Fun Fact: In Jedi Academy, during the training mission, you can attack Kyle and Rosh. Attacking Rosh kills him after a few hits, but attacking Kyle makes him hostile and the fight starts. Sadly a Game Over screen comes up after about 10 seconds, but that's enough time to see that Kyle will kick your ass
You can survive Kyle attacking you, but would you want to?
I swear Patrician just got his hands on every original Xbox game I played as a child and dedicated himself to making videos on all of them
I always considered Jedi Knight to be PC games first and foremost.
I do wonder, how this combat system translates to a gamepad. It works perfectly with kb+m but if it's also playable with a controller, there's no reason not to make another one of those instead of imitating Souls games or something
@@jossricketts4452 i never played outcast but jedi academy controls decently well on the xbox one. not sure about it’s release though
Urban Chaos: Riot Response when? Stubbs the Zombie WHEN?
@@jossricketts4452 controls are way better on PC because you can use any force power and can use force powers at the same time.
On controller, you have to select a force power and then press a button to use the active power.
X
I feel like Jedi Academy's story had the components to be a lot better. I wish they'd given us a few missions with Rosh, so that they could develop him as a genuine feeling friend of Jaden's, and make him seem like less of a useless, irritating schlub.
I know, right?!
At the same time though, making Rosh such an awful schlub is strangely what made my first playthrough of the game so memorable. I remember playing lightside all the way through while this horrible, selfish idiot, rube keeps going darkside and getting used and still trying to prove he's better than me. When he finally shows up seeking redemption/rescue, I just lost it. For the first time in my video gaming history I went darkside, and killed Rosh. Which made Korriban and fighting BOTH sides an incredible, chaotic experience. I've never really had a moment like that in gaming, before or since.
So yeah, it would be more pleasant if Rosh were less annoying, or if he were built up more as Jaden's friend, maybe his betrayal would have been more impactful. And yet, it was the very fact that I felt no bond with him, and was becoming ever more convinced of just how pathetic he was that drove me to make an emotional choice that even I didn't see coming.
Hey, anyone who thinks fondly of these games is an awesome person in my book. Hope 2022 is an awesome year for you! :D
I think they should have made four tiers of force powers, and thus four tiers of missions for the player, to slow down jadens jedi development and give more time for story and establishing rosh as jaden's friend. it could also help balance force powers out, because a tier 2 force power is useless but tier three makes them overpowered.
Yes! Like maybe send him with us as a companion in the first set of missions you go through. Make us hate him even more so that killing him feels even better later XD
@@nybergsgarage Whaaat. I loved being a step above a padawan in my third mission being able to Palpatine level Lightning 10 enemies lmao
@@nybergsgarage if you go into the commands theres a 4th level to all force powers. mind trick you see through their eyes and control, grip you grip multiple people, rage u lose like no health and damn near insta kill. heal is goat.
17:48 Fun fact. because they decided to turn the short range Disruptor Rifle into the only sniper in Outcast, and kept it in Academy Luke's academy just hands out a banned warcrime weapon to its students at the start of each level if you so choose it.
hello there :)
I mean, knowing Luke's sometimes cavalier attitude when it came to his student's safety in Legends (the Bantam era was weird) I'm honestly not surprised. Not like Corran's there to yell at him about or anything lol.
@@cloudftw113 Coran actually gets mentioned in a cutscene. He's assigned a trainee which does contradict one of the later NJO books where he says he hasn't had a padawan/apprentice. And this isn;'t a cavalier attitude about STUDENT safety, it's a cavalier attitude about his students disintegrating people in painful ways.
Student: "Grandmaster SKYYYYYWAAAAALKER Master Katarn keeps handing out Disruptors! Those are Illeeeeeegaaaaalll"
Kyle: "Don't be such a pussy."
Luke: "Yeah, Kyle's right, stop being a pussy."
@@DIEGhostfish I now headcanon the student as Jacen. I know the timeline doesn't quite add up, but still, it just works far too well.
Bruh
Thank you
Thank you for pointing this out. I genuinely don't understand why you're the only other person I've seen bring this up
Jaden's lore after Academy is pretty wild. Basically, Jaden fights in the Second Galactic Civil War, meets time-travelling Jedi and Sith from the time of The Old Republic MMO, and discovers a lost cloning facility once sponsored by Thrawn. Oh, and at the end of it all, he 'dies' and gets his mind transferred into a clone body.
Wat ?😂😂
@@nathanielcrosby2426 I swear like luke can also do some mad dragon ball z shit aswell
Old EU could get a bit wild sometimes but it had a lot of charm as well. It was under the helm of people who liked star wars.
lmao legends universe is insane
What books are those?
One thing I'll say about the 'old guy' is that this is one of those situations where knowing a bit more about old star wars helps, granted it's dumb needing to know out of game shit to get a character (But that's what happens when you use something pre-existing.) but Ragnos is a pretty important figure in old star wars.
It kinda worked because I later played KOTOR and had "hey, it's that guy" moment there
Honestly, it would've been fine if Academy atleast gave us some explanation on who Ragnos is besides "Ancient evil sith dude." but they just chose not to.
Tavion is never really given a motivation for wanting to resurrect him either. You'd figure she'd be after revenge for Katarn killing her master Desann or something, that would've been way more believable than just "Uhhh, I need to resurrect Ragnos because reasons."
@@scottmemelord6130 Marka Ragnos lived 5000 years before the events of the movies.
He was considered the greatest sith Lord that ever lived.
He was extremely dangerous and powerful.
@@arbiteras Would be nice if the game explained that.
Or any reason why Tavion cares. lol
@@scottmemelord6130 yeah, the sudden interest in Marka Ragnos is strange.
It would have made more sense if she tried to resurrect her old master Desann.
Jedi outcast had better story on this.
Also Jedi academy suffered from having George Lucas direct the dark side ending.
Amazing how the entire Dark Forces and Jedi knight franchise is superior in writing to anything disney has done in almost one decade. At the time its was just an ok history.
Nah, dude. Listen, I don’t like most of what Disney’s done, but these games are extremely forgettable.
@@joseluiscamacho5168not in the slightest.
@Jose Luis Camacho to you and some maybe but a lot of us remember them fondly.
@@metalvox89 I will never understand anyone that says that the Jedi Knight/Dark Forces stories were any good. They’re fine, at best, but nothing to write home about.
@@joseluiscamacho5168 Funny thats exactly what Disney's stories are like too.
15:48 The best part about the bad guys in Jedi Academy is that Tavion's second-in-command is Twi'lek Azula.
Grey DeLisle also voiced Padme in the Clone Wars microseries.
WAIT THATS AZULA"S VOICE ACTRESS!? I guess ive jus never noticed somehow...
Man I remember how many hours I spent as a kid playing Dark Forces 2 and Jedi Outcast. Was a sheltered kid so no walkthroughs in those days - best hope was to talk it over with friends and hope they were able to figure out some clue I missed or vise versa. The early teen years were then filled with making maps for Jedi Academy. I never got very good at it but some of my best creative memories came from making those maps and playing them with friends.
I used to make tons of maps and skins for these games. I even made a multi-level Single Player campaign that I never finished/released. I think that's what led me to become a software engineer.
nice memories man
These games are phenomenal. The directional lightsaber combat in tandem with a variety of situational force powers makes the multiplayer especially fun.
Oh man, there were some funny parts in this video.
"Jayden are you okay?" He asked calmly, immediately after just screaming in terror and falling, after... not saving himself for some reason?
Also, the massive montage of mook murder juxtaposed with the classic "but killing is wrong" line XD
> Stormtroopers get blasted down the incline
> A couple get their arms chopped off
> A few stormtroopers futilely try to run away
> Rest of the stormtroopers get herded together as Katarn picks them off one by one
> "We got 'em."
@@arnox4554 NPC Katarn is a PSYCHOPATH lmaooo
@@GHOST5800000 Yup.
@@GHOST5800000OF COURSE HE IS, we are talking about the guy who survived all those batshit insane mazes from the outcast
My favorite run in Academy was giving myself the fists "weapon" and just beating the hell out of everything with lots of force usage too to mix things up
also doing it and using mind trick to just control everyone and see how busted their at least e-11s were lol
iknowkungfu was busted for the fist weapon, you could give a personalized beating to everyone you met
Personally I love the realistic saber combat setting but I only put it 2 instead of 3. At 2 it makes so a clean swing that dismembers or slice through the body will kill but grazing hits will do damage but not kill. So it adds the tension and deadly nature that a light saber fight should have, but still makes you focus on fighting properly and getting good hits as just flailing around will leave you open to a clean strike from the enemy and killing you. Also feels really cool to purposely target the arm with a swing and see it fly off.
I put it at 3, since in the films everyone dies when they get stabbed by a lightsaber.
You should probably rewatch the films
I haven't played too far into outcast (though I'd like to complete it sometime!) but I replay academy every couple of years. Love that game
Funny, I loved Jedi Outcast but thought Academy was just okay, even when it came out and despite it getting rave reviews I honestly felt Jedi Academy was a massive step backwards in a lot of ways.
@@planescaped I can dig it. It's got an enemy bloat problem and parts feel rushed. I just really like the short level structure and how you can become a renegade edgelord
@@cheffdonty Also fuck Rosh, felt good to....treat him appropriately
@@planescaped I liked a lot of it but they had a chance to tighten up Outcast's really bad gunplay and make the return of the COncussion Rifle a truly glorious thing. But nope.
@@planescaped Jedi Academy is kinda objectively mediocre but I really love it, I often replay it (often though while fucking with the console and spawning random NPC's etc lol). There's just something satisfying about the simple levels, even if it's all taking place in a silly simplistic-as-hell menu of a few level choices a few times over. Several of the maps are still just especially fun to me, it could just be pure preteen nostalgia though. Or maybe because I'm just old enough to remember even older games with that kind of simplistic design, so I just don't mind it.
I just really enjoy plowing through Jedi Academy every couple of years. It's just a vibe idk. The multiplayer is just so fun, even if I'm just fucking with bots it's a good time. It's one of the only things I'll ever play alone with bots anymore.
Something just pulls you into Jedi Academy and Outcast, not sure what. Every now and then you just have to replay them. Spice them up with mods a little and enjoy. Still has the best saber combat out there. If there ever was a game to remake or continue, man oh man... If the people in power would realize that. They could make a new Skyrim if it continued to be as open to mods as it was in the old days.
Great post! Totally agree. I love Outcast, has a real Episode V vibe to it.
I still get an evil tingle as I wave at storm troopers while standing at the airlock controls.
one of the only games that did fighting melee almost pristine. mixed with force, the mp when this game was out was phenomenal. now everyone does moviebattles. which is just flashy stationary fighting with no force.
Because no matter what anyone says and no matter how much people try to argue about wether or not the saber combat is good. At the end of the day we all know in the back of our heads this is the best saber combat seen in a starwars game ever
Probably the freedom you have. You can mix and match your powers and moves in any way you want. Even small things like how putting your saber away means you can use lightning with two hands. I was playing through it with a friend today and I was struck by how much the Devs just went above and beyond. Even the fact that multiplayer has 5 different taunts including the option to meditate. It's pointless but it's damn cool.
The strong lightsaber style is overpowered in Academy. The overhead slash breaks through any defense, is easy to use and doesn't leave you vulnerable as it has the biggest reach. However, you should first pick the fast style and then get the strong style instead of opting for the saberstaff / dual wield.
That’s why everyone used it in duels. I would switch to light attack every now and then because it had a really good ground-to-high lunge attack that would get in there. Ah, I really miss going to duel servers where other players would meditate and watch others duel.
@@Nihlux I wish servers were still active lol
@@VictorPitstop im pretty sure JoF server has about 30 people at all times, people are still playing no-force
This is actually not the case, at least no in high-level multiplayer :D
In the unmodded multiplayer game most people will argue that staff is overpowered but definitely not single.
It's overpowered in single player. Don't know about multiplayer.
Saber combat made perfect sense once you got the hang of it. At first it appears "chaotic" but once you got the hang of the keyboard + mouse movement it was actually genius.
Moving forward would perform a downward strike which would cut through your enemy performing a sweeping strike BUT was hard to hit.
Moving left or right would preform a sweeping strike which was easier to hit but open to being countered.
I think the Author of this video labelling this as chaotic speaks more to their inexperience or misunderstanding of the Saber combat.
A good duellist will best someone spamming attacks 99/100 times
Yeah, I made a similar statement myself. I love JKA reviews because, it could mean more people playing the game. Misinformation can really ruin someone's experience with the game. So whenever I see reviews, I just try to support good points, give helpful hints, or provide simple facts. I'm glad I'm not the only pointing this out.
A long time ago in a duel server far far away, I was in one of the leading duel centered clans and decapitated a showoff with a one swing. Oh the days, those damn days..
He was talking about singleplayer, spamming attacks in singleplayer works fine, mp is obviously a different story.
yeah this is really true. with the force mixups and shit. game gets really skill heavy with 1000hr play time duels.
also imo movie battles is kinda shit. no force in battles, just 2 people looking at each other waiting who misses their perf block. it "looks" good and cool but mechanically makes the game so boring.
Yeah used to play dueling servers all the time. Skill was a major factor. Loved going from spamming to actually understanding the system and being able to compete with the really skilled players
Outcast and Academy were some of the seminal games of my childhood. Academy multiplayer back in 2003-2007 was an incredibly vibrant community with loads of mods, competitions, communities, guilds. I joined a clan myself and quickly became one of its leaders. We had a Jedi Council, masters, padawans. We even had our version of people falling to the dark side and trying to take over the clan. Even I fell to the dark side and went on a redemption arc. And none of it was scripted or play-acted, we had legit friendships, fallouts and make-ups in the game. The mind of a child is truly wonderful, because all of it felt so real, and we took it very seriously, but had tremendous fun at the same time. Those were the days. It was the deepest, most honest and immersive role playing experience I ever had.
9:08 And he's actually voiced by Billy Dee Williams, which is great.
I was in High scool in 2002 when Jedi Outcast came out. It blew me away, the story, the characters the gameplay, the visuals and sound. Everything a perfect Star Wars game should be. I miss the 2000's...
Dark side ending was also great because it really shows Kyle's character. Sort of like Obi Wan and Anakin, but less extreme. He really does feel like he let Jaden down and feels responsible for it as well. Good stuff.
These together with the KotOR games are my favorite Stat Wars games and among my favorite games of all time.
My favorite thing was rocket ping-pong in academy.
Shoot a rocket to a force user, they will push it back, and you push back, then they, then you...you get it...thing is, as I remember, the rocket gets faster with each push, so it's harder catch it each time
I remember spending so much time on Jedi Academy in multiplayer as a kid. It was grand, and the first real online multiplayer experience I had.
Same! Being part of a clan and working up through the ranks was better than any MMO guild since.
I used to play Outcast and Academy all the time when I was younger. Recently got the games for my Switch. Good times and good memories.
God I miss the old canon.
i put the GOG version install directories on a flash drive and played them during night shifts when i was network engineer decade ago. Golden times.
Probably my favorite Star Wars game ever it was the 1st game that ever really made me feel like a jedi with powers
As long as we're talking about the old canon, saying something isn't very "Jedi like" doesn't make much sense. Its made pretty clear in all old canon that Luke is just making shit up as he goes along in regard to teaching apprentices. He's, in fact, a pretty terrible teacher. The number of times he just leaves his apprentices to fend for themselves is mindblowing. The number of times it has come back to bite him in the ass is also mindblowing. At least in regard to his teaching philosophy, he's consciously making a point to not teach the same way the Jedi of old did. In fact, every time his teaching overlaps with old Jedi teaching, it turns out badly. The younger his apprentices are, for instance, the more likely it is, that they turn to the dark side.
Katarn's teaching philosophy is itself pretty much solely informed by him being the biggest badass in the entire galaxy. According to Katarn, abilities like Force Choke and Force Lighting are only evil if you are thinking Dark Side bad thoughts while doing them.
So things being not "Jedi like" gets tossed out the airlock just from the simple fact that these are games where you genocide whole populations of stormtroopers and criminals. Katarn's body count alone comes close to Luke's, and he did it the old fashioned way, not using cheater methods such as blowing up the Death Star.
Considering the track record of the previous incarnations of the Jedi Order, I'd say he's doing a really great job tbh, certainly miles better than his Disney canon counterpart. To say he was just absolutely terrible at being the Grand Master of the Order seems like a pretty loaded statement.
3:37 Fun fact, the scripted loss in here isn't a Win-and-then-lose-in-a-cutscene. You HAVE to "Die" in gameplay to progress the game without a level select cheat. So if you turned on invincibility and an early lightsaber because your 10 year old self couldn't beat the earlier AT-ST gauntlet without cheating, you're shit out of luck, Desann is 100% invincible and so are you, so you can't progress.
I miss console cheats in games. And yeah, I tried to beat him with cheats in this moment. Good times
@@jossricketts4452 We needed the cheats because in the Gamecube version for maybe memory reasons the turret you use to defend the prisoners can ONLY be used for the prisoner defense section there's a wall that lets the game spend less resources loading the rest of the valley but means you can;t aim that gun down on the first AT-ST. You have to run past BOTH valley AT-STs and shoot them with the turrets next to the ion cannons. We kept dying to them so we cheated.
@@DIEGhostfish oh wow, didn't know that. That's... I don't know. Such a weird bug that I didn't know about
@@jossricketts4452 It's not a bug, just different level geometry. Also the pipe from the previous level puts you directly into that round upper area with the landing pad and the prisoners under attack, rather than down in the lower valley where you need to take the elevator up. I'm just assuming it's for memory reasons to not need to render both areas at once, but the HUGE parts of the Yavin Canyon are there just fine, so I don't know if that holds up.
Patrician coming in clutch to beat civvie to this title lol
Holy shit, someone who actually calls them "Saber staves" !
A true Xmas miracle lol
george lucas doesnt understand words.
When I played academy with realistic saber combat, I killed a sith and during the slow-mo animation the sith's lightsaber touched me and I died as well.
Lightsabers in these games are lethal (as it should, not the baseball bat from ie The Force Unleashed, or in swtor, but that's different since it's an mmo), I used to kill guards and even other force users by just standing close to them, igniting the saber making contact with them and killing them with the blade movement by just moving the crosshair.
@@coledoco7841 *note this is only with the realistic saber combat cheat. It’s not like that by default
I got a kick out of harvesting heads in Outcasts.
Realistic saber cheat breaks the entire combat (blocking no longer works, some hits go right through)
i have over 200 hours on this game. it's one of my favorite PC games, probably top 3.
why do I have 200 hours? surely, because of MB2 or maybe multiplayer, when it was active?
no.
the absolute. sheer. joy. of breaking the game. in every way i could.
i had so much fun with cheats and messing with commands in singleplayer, it was almost like the best sandbox out there, and i crashed my computer many times. recently i got into speedrunning the game as well, which added even more to the unimaginable amount of fun this game presents.
thumbs up from me.
MB2 is amazing
@@sethrussell7771 I prefer SW Galactic Legacy to create my own SW Stories.
Multiplayer lightsaber fight in Academy is the most technical thing in the world. You really don't imagine how.
Yeah, you just got to try to provide the facts where you can. Misinformation on the saber combat can really ruin someone's experience.
Yep. It’s important that you have someone show you the mechanics of the lightsaber, otherwise it feels random and hard. Once you understand the controls you have complete freedom with the saber.
I absolutely loved your 'inferior cannon' notes.
Also Jedi Academy was my first video game back in 2004. I have played through it numerous times on many platforms, including each of my PCs and laptops over the years, my PS4 and even a smartphone. An interesting fact: Jedi Academy on smartphone is only playable with realistic saber combat. And it is super fun. With touchscreen limitations you only get one proper hit before an enemy overwhelms you, so you have to be really quick and precise.
1:54
I'll go a step farther: Raven's "Jedi Knight" games have the best sword combat ever devised for video games. But that's just my opinion.
In single-player, it is a bit clunky because the enemies don't fight intelligently. But in multiplayer, against very competent opponents, it becomes a deep game in and of itself.
16:20
This probably wasn't the designers' intention, but: having the ability to skip levels opens up the possibility of a challenge run where your powers never becomes fully upgraded.
Bannerlord tho
About that wagon in the second Nar-Shaddaa. You can push it from the other side but you need to be very precise in the first person and try to find an opening while hugging the wall and probably jumping. It's tricky and likely an exploit.
As a kid, the third level of the game, Artus Mine, took me a month to complete because I didn't realize that you have to drop on the extending pipe under a ledge. After this realization the rest of the level design was trivial. I actually miss this dickish school off level design these days as funny as it sounds.
Man, I love Jedi Outcast. The game that introduced me to SW. I watched OT later and had three reaction "oh, so that's where they took the music for the game"
Honestly the level design and atmosphere in Outcast is better than Academy. The only planets/levels in Academy that had that unique design and atmosphere were Coreillia, Hoth, Dossun, Vonju (?), Vjun, Taspir 3, Chandrilla and Korriban. All the other ones were either generic bases or were mini games (Blenjeel and Ord Mantell).
@@dtxspeaks268 Absolutely, the level design is underrated in Outcast, likely because it hides the path forward sometimes. Once you start getting force powers it just gets more fun navigating all the deadly obstacles. Genuine deadly environments make leveling up force jump + speed feel so nice, and it's fun to use your force powers and slew of weapons and tools to explore them. The array of weapons felt both less useful and less natural to use in academy because you have the lightsaber and most weapons faster.
@@Gorpmeat not to mention Outcast has a better atmosphere than Academy. The atmosphere in Outcast is more subtle and mysterious, with the Imperial levels like Kjem, the first Artus Prime area, Cairn Dock, and Doomgiver being somewhat creepy.
The atmosphere for most of Jedi Academy's level is just generic and it plays the same upbeat ROTJ music and and some of the more upbeat music from ANH and TESB. The only levels in Academy that have any sort of eery atmosphere are Hoth, Vjun, Blenjeel, Bakura, and the inside of the Taspir III mining facility.
Jedi outcast at this point is only a strange fever dream in my memory.
Fun fact, you can force push both dumpsters at 8:30 from one side. played this game dozens of times in my life, but ive never done that level the "right way"
Force Grip is more than OP. You can crunch an enemy directly into the ground, use stormtroopers as meat shields, and if you jump and fling an enemy directly up into the air, the fall damage will usually kill them- this even works on high-level Reborn.
You don’t have to jump. If you flick the mouse up fast enough and let go you will fling them to their death. I think they fixed that for Jedi Academy.
That Bespin level was gold back in the day. I don't think I've ever had a gaming experience that paralleled the feeling of awesomness that first time I dueled the dark jedi in that level. It just really made me feel like a Jedi from the movies.
I replayed that level probably 5 or 6 six times, it was so fun.
Later levels never quite felt as fun for me with the cortosis armor that shorted out your saber. I always ended up needing to switch out to guns to handle some enemies which didn't feel as satisfying as running around like a real jedi with lightsaber and force powers. I never beat the game, nor did I end up playing Academy, but Outcast gave me some wonderful gaming experiences.
I'd never heard of or played with lightsaber instakill though, that definitely seems like it would kill the challenge of it.
Man, we'll never get incredible sandbox games like this again. The Force Unleashed and Fallen Order tried, admirably, but I think there's just something missing from them.
Please share with us your portfolio of successful Star Wars games
How are any of these sandbox games? All of these games are linear. Fallen Order is the only game that let's you explore levels for special crystal and outfits but that doesn't make it a sand box.
Well what's the missing ingredient?
@@mrjones29 In case of TFU2 mainly content :D It's absurdly short.
@ I have TFU2 on the Xbox but still haven't fired it up yet.
multiplayer in jedi outcast was soooooo fun. maps were creative and combat was wonky but had so many options to experiment with. really miss it and crazy how no games really built on the combat moving forward after jedi academy...
singleplayer was classic too.
Splendid critique.
Good job pointing out the dickishness of the of the Nar Shaddaa levels. I used to think less of them, but I've grown to appreciate the weird, nonsensical level design, over time. It's a commitment to engaging the player and making them think that you just don't see, nowadays. Same with the early, lightsaber-less levels.
Academy is definitely weaker on the story front, although, considering the short development time, I'm impressed they delivered as much as they did. While turning to the Dark Side yields a hilariously over-the-top evil Jaden, it offers a very compelling finale, giving you the chance to literally turn against your former player character - somewhat rightly so, as a result of questionable teaching/parenting - and teases a more compelling villain than Tavion ever was, for the supposed next game. I've long fantasized about what a Jedi Academy 2, with an evil Jaden as the antagonist, might look like.
As a minus, I feel like some of the stuff they added, in Academy, ended up being fluff, that cluttered the game. The saber katas, for instance, while fun to execute, the first couple times, are pretty useless and overly flashy, for the most part. The simplicity of Jedi Outcast's combat was what made it work.
Speaking of, I do think that, in the right hands, g_saberrealisticcombat enhances the saber fights, instead of breaking them. It's true that most people try to cheese their way out of every fight, with cheap moves - like the ctrl+w+click fast style one, that even the NPCs spam - but if you try to work with the system, instead of against it, the combat yields some deliciously spectacular results. I used to give myself Tavion's fighting style, spawn 100 Reborn, and just try to survive, while emulating as much of the fighting style of the Prequels, as I could. At some point, every frame becomes a painting...
...until you make a mistake and lose to the last pathetic Reborn left.
Paradoxically, what made the combat system great is that there *was* no combat system. Not in the modern sense. No counter button, no reliable blocking, scripted finishers, quick time events or smart/auto-hit attacks. Everything was as manual as an old-school fighting game, which made the combat extremely clunky, but also provided absolute freedom, in how you approached it. Every player was left to find their own way to make it work, and whereas newer games might funnel you to playing a certain way, Jedi Outcast/Academy just let you play and figure out your own style, along the way. There are countless quirks that are still ingrained in my brain and that inform my personal fighting style; and even though I haven't played the game in years, those quirks would come back instantly, if I booted up the game again. And I'm sure other players have their own unique tactics and quirks.
Anyway, it warms my black heart to see videos about Jedi Outcast/Academy still being made.
Also nice to be among fellow Jedi Knight enthusiasts.
May the Force be with all of you,
A pleb who likes spectacle.
Based comment. It is the freedom that makes the combat great, and whilst Fallen Order may have slick animations, it will never be as good as JKO/A. Realistic sabre combat is great, greatly increasing the challenge of the game and giving me a reason to pick heavy style for those broad sweeping strokes that can cleave through enemies.
Ah, I feel like replaying these games again now.
@@LumosX You hit the nail on the head with Fallen Order. I played it; it's a fun game, but it doesn't feel like a game with lightsabers. Neither did The Force Unleashed. Those feel like baseball bats, instead of laser swords.
Outcast & Academy are unique for 2 reasons:
1) lightsaber damage is as realistic as possible (especially with realisticsabercombat) and
2) it's a true free-flowing combat system, meaning no dodge button, no parry mechanic, no perfect counter, or finishing move - it's raw and completely dependent on your skill level.
Put another way, the fact that you could get hit by a lightsaber and potentially die from it, at any point in time, and that it's entirely your fault if that happens.. *that's* what makes it great.
@@CynicalWarlock At least The Force Unleashed let us chop people up... Also, do stuff that'd probably be a War Crime.
@@kabob0077 I don't remember dismemberment being a thing in The Force Unleashed. The Force powers gameplay was the best in any game, though. Supremely satisfying.
@@CynicalWarlock The second game let you do that. Wish the first game could.
The combat is kind of janky with jumping on people’s heads and choke spamming, but figuring those tricks out as a kid and then being able to steamroll through levels absolutely made me feel like the ultimate Jedi, and I’ve loved this game ever since.
The multiplayer for this game is still alive and kicking, highly recommend everyone to give it a shot!
The shocking death knell of Katarn at 22:30 followed by the totally non-chalant "Jaden are you okay?" always had me in fucking stitches.
Thanks very much for making this video! you’re responsible for me fully replaying the whole thing in one day - on a higher difficulty than I ever have, successfully completing the dark side playthrough, playing it as a shooter, and finally trying out the sheer delight of Force Grip.
I had a blast!!!
Not sure if you noticed, but if you force grip someone long enough you can hear their neck break
I kinda wish we had either re-makes or more games in the vein of these. Hell even one where we get to see the Sith Empire instead of a third re-hashing of the galactic empire. I agree to that they don't flesh out darkside characters besides, evil for evil's sake.
careful what you wish for.
Modern remakes would make the gameplay "heavy"
I love both games since they came out, regularly play them and enjoy eternal vibe they are surrounded by.
In console commands spawn a rancor and have it eat Kyle on darth vaders castle, after that he’ll run around as a pair of legs kicking and force pushing enemy’s, it’s hilarious
These games were my childhood games. Awesome games. Also the movie battles 2 mod is probably the best multiplayer Star Wars game ever.
I remember when I was a kid with no walkthrough the large amount of time I would have to spend navigating like half of the levels which were basically a maze. I beat it with no walkthrough, but it would still take hours to beat a level. Usually the problem was the maze-like nature of many of the levels after you get the ligthsaber. It's evident they put the best levels first, and the lesser levels with lesser game design in the middle of the game.
Yes, although I think it's a prudent decision to put their weak levels in the middle. Nar Shaada was still one of the first times I needed a walkthrough from the internet though, back when they were plain text documents.
8:00 There seem to be something wrong with your game. I clearly remember that any force-usable objects in both Jedi Knight games were highlighted by a blue glow around the crosshair. Which of course doesn't really save the maze like structure of that level, but generally helped because you're just trained to interact with any object that makes your crosshair glow. Same goes for destructible objects, I'm pretty sure they supposed to make your crosshair red just like enemies do.
Nothing wrong with the game, that's how it is on a real difficulty.
@@Patrician I guess they assumed the player would do a easier difficulty for the first play through.
IIRC that actually is a function of the difficulty you choose. On easier ones you get the blue glow to help you figure it out easier but in harder ones you don't.
The blue crosshair is not present in Jedi Outcast, only in jedi academy. I know this because it confused me as well
Also, as much as I enjoyed working on these games and programming the lightsaber combat, I did feel like all the extra sabers and moves in Jedi Academy made it more chaotic. I think I prefer Jedi Outcast when it comes to the purity of just dueling with a single lightsaber.
19:43 I mean Tavion's also got a limited amount of stolen power to dole out and her users may also need to grow in power slowly as they get used to the artificial force-roids.
I think Academy is still missing the Desann fight where you get trounced in gameplay by a powerful force user, as a preview of what is to come.
@@Patrician True, they could have had that right at the beginning, they knock you out anyway via cutscene and Kyle wakes you up.
The Lightsaber combat in these games is second to none, I felt like a Jedi when I was in a duel.
in terms of the combat - single player feels very different that multiplayer - for those that love competitive gaming and dueling, the combat feels very different and the skill/knowledge of the game requires a decent amount of dedication to hold your own! You said it doesn't feel deliberate, but in multiplayer everything has to be deliberate! :D
13:22
I like the detail here where you force pushed the civie out of the way so it wouldn't get caught in the middle of your fight
This brought back so many fond and frustrating memories. I love these games. Thank you so much for creating.
15:30 Every time I hear that voice I'm reminded of Rosh
My favourite lightsaber combat in-game so far has been Fallen Order, to be honest. Quite satisfying, not overly complex, doesn't descend into complete chaos that I feel I have zero control over.
This has got to be the best Star Wars series ever, I doubt anyone could change my mind. Used to play Academy online all the time as a kid, and I still play today. :D
Outcast is probably the best star wars game of all time for me. But i honestly have only played a dozen maybe. I probably play Academy more as it’s easier to get into but Outcast’s combat required more skill and it’s tighter.
@@lethalassassin1754 I gotta agree. Everyone talks about Outcast, and I get it, but academy was that final step that really pulled the mechanics together.
I'm convinced Patrician actually is Todd Howard pitch shifting his voice lower. Not much lower mind you.
"and her beating Kyle is a sign of her growth as his apprentice"
*played over footage of Jaden getting her ass kicked by Kyle*
lol
17:21 and even if you don't manage the wrist flick, after breaking your force grip they will literally turn their lightsaber off and on letting you execute them then and there.
I like how you say Wedge's name like everyone knows who he is. He's one of my favourite characters.
GREATEST "Sin" of Academy:
They took ALL achievements of Luke and made some green horn to surpass them in first few days of being Jedi.
- Luke fought Rancor. Padawan fought 3 (third is HUGE mutated)
- Luke destroyed 2 speeders. Padawan at least 6.
- Luke killed 1 Wampa. Padawan killed 3 etc etc
This is over the course of several months. And video games always have bigger scalee.
I still remember that first dark jedi, and how he jumped at me, I force pulled him while he was in the air, and he went flying down the pit. It was so hilarious.
This is the best christmas gift -I love these games and I strongly enjoy your content
lol that 21:47 "What Happens If You Fall Into Jupiter" reference was awesome
28:02 all his friends are dead, he runs helplessly, unarmed, from a maniac, and then says “wE g0T eM”
We used to play Jedi Academy at LAN parties. Run around and duel each other with lightsabers, super fun.
Holy crap, the nostalgia.
I never did make it past the level were you start off in a ship. Several hours of trying and I never figured out where to go lmao
I love the repeated comments of “Clearly the inferior cannon”.
LOVE the snark
1:51, I don't know what you mean by "tenuous" here. Out of all the Star Trek games released at that time I could name maybe two bad ones. By 2002 you had Armada 2, Elite Force, Bridge Commander, Starfleet Command, Away Team, Birth of the Federation, 25 Anniversary and more. There was a period between 1992 and 2004 when nearly every Star Trek game released by two separate publishers was amazing.
Have you played any of those games?
I find Away Team to be not that great, it always felt a bit like someone tried to make a "Commandos: Star Trek Edition" and while it worked OK it kinda missed the spot for me.
Armada 2 was fun, Elite Force not so much, Bridge Commander was amazing whereas Starfleet Command felt boring and I never tried the last 2 games you mentioned.
So... yeah, tenuous is a fitting description in my book.
At least for me, well those games are pretty good as games none of them ever struck a proper Star Trek chord for me.
this seems like a better game than anything ive spent $60 on in the past 12 years
I like the idea of realistic saber combat. But the problem is that, as you pointed out, combat in these games is crazy as hell. We can't really fight the way Jedi would, so having us not simply get killed by the first strike is a good way to help compensate. It makes the duels seem properly epic and challenging the way a lightsaber battle between two force users should actually be.
“Outcast Academy” is a young adult series I would *definitely* keep an eye on
For anyone with a modern pc who cant play this game due to crashes or freezes, run the game through "Large Address Aware". It has fixed pretty much any old game that has these issues. no modding necessary.
I really love/hate that dune mission in academy lol I spent a good amount of time figuring out what to do as a kid and it just became a good thrill trying to bait the worms out for fun
i cant tell you how many times i played jedi academy as a kid
i owe my knowledge of and interest in star wars to it, mostly
it was just so much fun to me , and some parts - the linear nature of the levels, the power fantasy and ease of getting lightsaber and powers early on - were what made it so enjoyable to me
even watching it now is making me want to replay some of those levels …
played so much of Outcast multiplayer, and never understood Academy multiplayer, because it restricted the saber movement too much (you can't do stuff like spin your character while doing a back swing)
Probably because it's too easy to land hit from weird angles that way so in MP they considered that an exploit.
Think you needed the mod for that stuff, JKA plus
The only thing I like about Rosh is that he's the only fallen jedi to say "I can't do this anymore. I need to get help." And the key detail is that he made that choice entirely on his own. He had no one there trying to redeem him, in fact, he was surrounded by dark siders who wouldn't even tolerate him considering going back to the light side.
I think it would be an amazing story if something like that was to be expand into a full story. A dark sider realizing this isn't the way and wanting help to go to the light.
I loved these games as a child and they were an instant classic. It was the first time that I felt like playing a Star Wars movie and I loved Luke's development from Return of the Jedi to becoming the wise and powerful master he was supposed to be in this...
Oh wait, he is a freaking useless hobo on a distant planet now... thanks Disney!
I also used to cheat sometimes and get a Luke Skywalker as a companion for each and every level. Fun fact in this case is that at bespin in that one room with the stairs you can find R2 and C3PO under one of the stairs (you showed how you destroyed them). When you bring Luke there, he stands in front of them and freezes there. Apparently he just doesn't want the two droids to be alone
I just wish we had jedi knight 3 where kyle has to hunt down the turned Jaiden.
Dark side felt like the canon ending
15:25 man I have the opposite problem everywhere I go I'm reminded of Rosh Penin. his voice actor shows up in the weirdest of places
6:39 So. The sniper is worse in every way than the sniper in Jedi Knight: Mysteries of the Sith.
And the Rapid fire Heavy Repeater with the concussion blast grenade is an ABOMINATION. It replaces two of the BEST weapons from Dark Forces and Jedi Knight and is utterly garbage at both roles. The Repeater in DF and JK was pinpoint accurate with very fast projectiles. The Heavy Repeater in Outcast has painfully slow projectiles and a spread that makes the E-11 look reasonable. The grenade mode is a horrific parody of the godly Concussion Rifle. Interestingly the whole package is basically one of the guns from Raven's Star Trek Voyager shooter. But made worse because the rapid fire mode on that gun was actually accurate, the energy grenade seems about the same.
And of course you get them AFTER the lightsaber. So they suck there. The concussion rifle makes a "Return" in Academy but it's also fairly bad, and the primary fire can be force pushed by dark jedi so you're not going to ever get to use it for anything fun. It's also really bad looking compared to the Dark Forces and Jedi Knight concussion rifles.
Yeah the gunplay in these games compared to dark forces 2 + MOTS is pretty whacked, feels good to master tho
You know it's the inferior canon when all the main characters from the original trilogy aren't walking failures.
"Clearly the inferior canon" LOL I couldn't "Agree" more
“Or worse in Halo 2.”
*KIG-YAR (JACKAL) SNIPER PTSD INTENSIFIES.*
13:02 A few friends and I stumbled in to one of those servers many years ago and I can say from my personal experience that swinging randomly resulted in me being impaled 10/10 times.
As a side note I also loved playing both games using mainly blasters. Killing a friend who had a saber out with explosives was great.
Sadly almost impossible against AI force push. I just hate how inaccurate and SLOW everything is.
Jedi academy multiplayer sabering is honestly one of the most skill based games to ever exist. It can take month/years to get “good”, and once you get there you can easily crush anyone who is mindlessly spamming 100/100 times.
That guy from Skyrim! That scene of that guys voice has been haunting me for years! Rosh somehow got stuck in Skyrim with memory loss!
I believe the mantra of the Jedi is "killing is wrong unless it's in self-defense"
Merry Christmas!
The only mission I skip is the one with the rancor, not the one with the prisoners but the other one with the rancor that you cannot destroy
I vividly remember playing both of these games over and over when they were released. The debug codes were fun for exploring all of the level development "smoke and mirror" tricks. Great games, even when they were getting outclassed graphically several years after release. Great review. Your Rosh tune and Katarn's blatant hypocrisy had me in tears. This also reminded me when it was possible to find a slew of great PC games at your local Best Buy.
🤔 And yeah, it is odd that 2 paper thin plots were more compelling than the sequel trilogy. At least one of these games explained a dead Sith Lord's resurrection.
🤔🤔 Oh, JJ, Palpatine saved himself via force teleport. You made it a point to show off this power, but weren't good enough of a screen writer to connect the dots. It's ok. Better luck next time.
I remember getting the demo for JK2 with some game or other, and I had a save right before the reborn duel. The demo level was a really cool level too.
"I don't know why we would need 5 buttons to do this one action..."
Hexen called and says hello.
Well well well, looks like someone's been playing MBII, perhaps the best part of Jedi Academy.
I was hoping to see more of it in the video, especially given the fact that this mod greatly improves Jedi Outcast saber system.
Base Jedi academy sabering is much better and harder than mb2 sabering, mb2 is just fun for the casuals and role players :p
Jedi academy was on the pc at my local library when I was a youngin. I remember running there after school everyday to play it. Thanks for the trip down memory lane.