THE EMPEROR SPEAKS! TRUTH OF HIS CONVERSATION WITH GUILLIMAN!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ส.ค. 2024
- Hey everyone! Wolf Lord Rho here!
Today we discuss the revelation of the Emperor's words to his son, the returned Roboute Guilliman. Primarch of the Ultramarines.
Spoiler Warning to begin the events we are discussing today are from the Warhammer 40,000 novel, Dark Imperium: Godblight, by Guy Hayley. As always I really recommend you read the story for yourself first, as that’s the best way to enjoy the lore. For yourself! Not only that we help to support the great games workshop and black library. Because without them we dont have this amazing lore to talk about. Link: www.blacklibra...
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Mortarion: "You were foolish to believe in our father and Humani-"
Big E: "I'm about to end this man's whole fuckin' career."
Big E: "Enough of this ridiculousness"
Mortarion: Father never cared for us!
Big E: I do, just liked you Purturabo and Lorgar the least. Bunch of whinny babies.
@@void735 😂 classic
Mortarion: "Brother, you are foolish to believe Father ever loved us!"
Big E: "Shut the fuck up you walking common cold! I was busy trying to bring humanity together and stop the ruinous powers of chaos! If you wanted a hug, you could have just asked."
I have read all of the Big E lines in tts voice.
I'm not going to lie, this brought a tear to my eye. Seeing the Emperor make the herculean effort to assemble his shattered psyche to somewhat encourage and comfort his son shows that although he created the Primarchs to be tools of war he grew to love them as his sons just hit me where I live.
@@2012sonora So, he mistranslated what his pops said? Damn, talk about a misreading.
The point was precisely, that he only loves them, when they do his will. The love is conditional, not truly fatherly!
Truth, like the rest of humanity all the primarchs were just tools to be used a disposed of by the Emperor. That isn’t love, at best it’s a agreement of cooperation, at worst it’s an expectancy of slavery.
@@Kristian.B.Kristiansen I think the point is that the Emperor is so fucked (and/or maybe so powerfull and beyond human) at this time that he just psychic blasts Roboute with ALL the words. It's love, disappointment, hope and fear all at once.
@@minnumseerrund That's what I aas trying to say but I got a bit emotional. Thanks.
**Reads the title**
Ah, someone finally installed a text-to-speech device in the throne?
That would make a fun youtube series
@@Tarimoth Bruh hahahah
@@Tarimoth this comment is heretical.
Have you been stuck in the warp for to long????
Someone? That's Captain-General Kitten, High Lord of Terra and the Emperor's Word, to you, menial!
@@Tarimoth some one send the 3 greased up cuckstodies to fetch him
Remember, that at the height of the Istvan 5 massacre, Vulkan raged and called Perturabo out to fight him directly, Perturabo’s only response was to literally nuke Vulkans position and hundreds of his own Iron warriors! The Lord of Iron do not fuck around!
Well he formed his legion into an artillery based army ... so of course he cared not for melee combat.
Maybe....Perturabo wanted to give Vulkan a quick death...to spare him the suffering to come....
@@tramico96 pert does think oddly like that...he did spare ironhands before
At his heart he always considered being a warlord a waste of his more creative talents, but couldn't argue that there was someone more qualified than a Primarch to head the armies of the Great Crusade. More so than any of his brothers, Perturabo sees battle as a necessary deed, not a vain opportunity for glory. He gets the job done, with the efficiency, precision, and clarity that only a deep disinterest can bring.
@@spacedoubt15 oh he definitely enjoys the logistics and creative destruction of war, and he is not without marital pride, but being set to that exclusively and without an outlet or appreciation for his creative genius ground him down to bitter cold Iron.
I had interpreted the "My greatest triumph" line as more so the Emperor referring to how he "orchestrated" Guilliman's return. If just getting an sentence out takes such effort, imagine all that must have gone into subtly influencing events for thousands of years to bring him back. When Guilliman first fluttered his Primarch eyes open again since he was put in stasis, that was no doubt a fist pump moment for the Emperor.
maybe E is talking about his greatest triumph... maybe theres something on Ullanor for guilliman to use.
his last Tour like he said
Maybe hammer just like to hit nail 🌶️
I think it’s because Guilliman is the only one who has betrayed or left the Emperor and stayed by his side fighting for humanity.
Big E: Oh. Hey, Robute *Psychically looks over Guilliman's shoulder, sensing Cypher* where is Johnson?
Robute: You didn't send for me?
Big E: Uhhh, of course I did. Take this sword and go get Johnson... as intended.
The fact Gullimans mind goes to his "family" as he's "dying" is a great touch.
Throughout the various Heresy novels we see a few of the Primarchs call Malcador uncle, either jokingly in a cheery tone, or in a dry hateful "fuck you uncle" tone
His inclusion in the flashbacks could have just as easily been left out, but it's awesome to see Our Boy get some love
Oh man. I can imagine an alternative universe where the Primarchs didnt get yeeted into space and they grew up on Terra. More specifically the interactions between Malcador and a small Magnus when Magnus starts learning psychic abilities.
Magnus: *Creates a small energy ball that pops into smoke* Uncle Malcador! Uncle Malcador! I did it!"
Malcador:"Good job Magnus." *Pat's his head*
I think I remember a spacebattles fanfic where the Emperor acts like a dad towards his sons, and the story opens with the Emperor reading bed time stories to the yet to be born Primarchs. Can't remember the name.
There is also another one where the Legion of the Damned (I think) slaughter the Word Bearers in the genelab during their vision (you know, the one where they witness all the pods before they're wisked away by the 4 space tumors), thus alerting Big E to the whole Chaos plot. I unfortunately don't remember the name either.
@@simplewrites this kinda reminds me of the fic "This won't end well" where the 2nd Primarch and his wife (it makes sense in context) call Malcador "Pointy Staff Man of Doom" while he's there with them. Of course, he objects to the name, because his staff isn't pointy. Doesn't say anything regarding the "Man of Doom" part though. XD
sanguinius specifically calls him uncle. even the khan is respectful. its lorgar and horus who treat him like shit.
@@O-P-96 here’s the link it’s interesting to see the author take on what the emperor plan was for humanity and the reasons the emperor did the things he did.
forums.spacebattles.com/threads/imperium-ascendant-heresy-less-40k.596194/
This alone proves that The Emperor truly loves his sons and Humanity as a whole. Especially his Loyal Primarchs. Bent and stretched his mind to the points of mental and Psychy torture just to speak to his Son and Lord Commander just to bestow hope, life, and Faith within him. Truly a moment to be in Awe of Guillimans character arch. *Claps for Guy Haley.*
This Author single handedly made Papa Smurf and the Ultras more human and more badass.
I'm pleasantly surprised how well Guilliman has been handled in his return. He's the most powerful individual in the Imperium and one of the most powerful in the galaxy yet he's grounded and has made mistakes and hasn't just mary sued everything. I look forward to where its going from here.
"My last loyal son..."
*The Lion has left the chat*
Man, the feels in this one... Imagine being mentally tortured for 10 000 years and making a herculean effort just to talk with your last loyal son. It would be pretty hard to remember how to be polite so i dont really blame him for calling Guilliman a tool although coming from a father, that must still have hurt.
People keep giving Guilliman a hard time but i honestly like the guy more and more, he may not be the strongest Primarch but he certainly is the most Human.
No most human would be vulkan
@@armoroftruth3166 Vulkan is a kind and warm human while Guilliman is a tough love, colder man, but still very much human
@@armoroftruth3166 Vulkan is not human, he is just a shard of humanity. Aspect of love and hugs.
@Armin Tabari I wouldn't say Vulkan ( my personal fav) is the most human. Vulkan is a perpetual... something not even other Primarchs are. He IS arguably the NICEST Primarch... but kindness isn't a HUMAN trait, any reasonably intelligent creature can be kind. lets also not forget, even my boi vulkan has his share of atrocities... especially when Eldar are involved.
@@grametry5 he was giving those Eldar a kindness they wouldn’t have received from Konrad’s sons.
The Emperor might be referring to Guilliman in particular as his "...greatest triumph."
Of all The Primarchs, Guilliman was the one whose actions conformed the most to The Emperor's vision. Guilliman was a civil leader, not just a military leader, and was an emperor in his own right.
For the Ultramarines ARE THE GREATEST OF THEM ALL
Certainly, an emperor on his own right!
Dorn didn't have 500 worlds but he was similar too. On the phalanx and Inwit, plus the surrounding star systems. Was a well received King or Emperor in his own right. I believe Roboute was maybe a touch better with everything than Dorn, but Dorn's WILL AND ENDURANCE from utter ass kickings.was legendary. He could hold things down while being beaten to a pulp in more ways than one.
My headcanon is the Gman was actually Big E's least favorite of all his sons just because he's the most boring. But, like with many over-achieving, forgotten, middle children, Robutee is the last one left. He is the one who didn't fail, despite his father likely seeing him as less worthy for most of the crusade and herasy (compared to a clear favorite like Horus, Vulkan, or especially Sanguineous).
Emps first words to guiliman: Holy shit, why didnt the Suncat cut off your life support like I asked him to?
I never understood this reference, why tho? I know it's from TTS but emperor keeps saying that lol.
WE WILL NEVER KNOW WHAT HE SAID NOW OOOOOOOH
@@youdontknowme2913 Because everybody hates the Ultrasmurfs, even our almighty God-Emperor.
@@zefft.f4010 but y????
@@youdontknowme2913 Because they were too good at what they did
I'm guessing that the Emperor's godly senses picked up on Mortarion, and the fractured voices were talking to both him and Guilliman, which is why he insults Guilliman so harshly; he quite literally sees Mortarion standing behind him. And Mortarion is _shaken_ by the idea of the Emperor peering across time to see him.
What follows is the Emperor ignoring Mortarion and focusing his thoughts on Guilliman and giving him his undivided attention, and it's just as you say Rho; Guilliman is the best Primarch by default, and he knows it. And he can tell how desperate the Emperor is for Guilliman to hold everything together long enough for something else to click into place.
This comment should be pinned
Malcador: This "Ruinstorm" is blocking all communication ... we have no idea what Guilliman is doing!
Emperor: *Guilliman is an empire builder, what do you THINK he is doing?*
I do not think Guilliman is the *best* primarch ... that all depends on how you define it ... but there is no doubt he is the one most like his "father"!
@@Grubnar I mean he's the only Loyalist Primarch around at the moment, so he is the best by default. You know, because Russ went on a vision quest, Jaghatai started a gang war with the Drukhari, Corvus fucked off, Jonson is still in a coma, Dorn and Vulkan are supposedly dead, and Ferrus and Sanguinius are ACTUALLY dead.
@@Brutalyte616 "... he's the only Loyalist Primarch around at the moment, so he is the best by default."
By that logic, he is also the worst!
I figured it out!!! The emperor placed the memories inside him so that each time he reaches for that memory in the presence the OTHER primarch hears their own personal version. This was a message for Mortarion, not Roboute. It was to show mortarion the father he betrayed, the love and humanity he thought impossible of his father. A perfect rebuttal of the exact reasons he used to explain his fall to chaos.
I would kind of prefer it if this wasn't fully intentional. That in subjecting Guilliman to the fractured chorus of his minds he imparted every waring feeling he had on him, and by association in the same moment the father and creator of the primarchs called out to them all. Mortarion would therefore be facing the undeniable, uncensored truth of how the Emperor sees him. Not only now but also in the past.
@@The_Sigillite That is def an interesting take. For me, i enjoy the more loving fatherly view of the emperor... at least, i hope he is still in there somewhere.
@@LordSgtSavy From my perspective, the Emperor made the Primarchs as tools for his ambitions. He allowed them to call him father and used the word himself as a matter of fact, but never intended for them to be more than tools. However, as we all know, the Emperor is at least in part human, and that human part loves his sons, grieves their loss, and hates the man that did not act as a father should.
Because he was spying on his thoughts he saw the “memory”
After hearing you read the Emperor trying to pull his kind together to speak to Guilliman..Now I get why the Emperor didn’t want to be worshipped as a god..the madness of the chaos gods makes sense…being a ‘deity’ may give you near unlimited power but it seems like it would also be like being stretched and ripped apart in every direction because it f the universe worshipping you..different places to be..different ways you’re worshipped..torn apart and fit in different holes that don’t quite fit your shape
Well Roboute´s vision of the Imperium is perhaps the one Emperor actually wanted.
Maybe because of that, he is his greatest son? Because he built the BEST society of all of his brothers?
Pretty much that. When he met emperor, it was a great deal out of mutual agreement, he wanted the best for humanity and so does the emperor. Only after the heresy and recently the relationship got more sentimental. And Gulliman had the most productive way of coping with the lost of the emperor: working harder to rebuild the Imperium. While all other primarchs just went crazy with vengeance or depression.
Roboute created his own empire before emps showed up, that's pretty much Roboute's primarch superpower, governing, leadership and organisation
He is the ultimate logistics guy
@@blazednlovinit yeah he's like the captain america of the primarchs
@@blazednlovinit Why is it that everyone seems to forget that Rogal Dorn forged his own interstellar empire as well. While it wasn't as big as Guillimans' own empire, it still existed and was more beneficial to the great crusade as it was geared towards war.
The Emperor is simply being honest with him. He did create them to be tools but he also sees them as his sons. He knows that Roboute wouldn't react badly to being called a tool because Roboute completely understands why he was created.
We talk about Guilliman feeling lonely in a galaxy without peers, not thinking about this applying to the Emperor Himself! The closest thing He ever had was the other perpetuals but even they stood in His shadow, and all but Malcador abandoned him. He created the Custodes to try and fill the gap but even they couldn't match His intellect and longevity. Only His primarchs ever could have truly operated on His level and given Him social/intellectual peers. Even if you don't believe that He cared about them as individuals in a fatherly way, it seems pretty clear that He valued them beyond their military usefulness, as companions.
I think this is one of the moment where the emperor establish bond with his son. Out of all the loyal primarchs, Gulliman has one of the least deepened bond with his father. He was so successful that he never had to ask the emperor for help before the heresy. And the emperor was pleased with Gulliman he never had to ask him how he's doing. Only in the last moment before his death, Gulliman realized how little he cared about his men he could have been calling them sons out of convenience. And the emperor thanks to his cold calculated natural ( not entirely his fault but it's a great deal) has led the the Imperium into the mess they have now. And Gulliman despite his great effort, has made little progress dragging the Imperium out of the death spiral even with his superhuman logic. It is almost like the emperor telling Gulliman not to repeat his mistake, he was lucky his Ultramar didn't get a civil war during the heresy.
Looks to me like Guilliman is going to become the living Avatar of the Emperor. The only vessel potentially able to hold such a large shard of him without burning out. This would in turn imbue him with power that could rival that of his chaos counterparts. Evening the playing field if you will.
Wouldn't Vulkan be more suitable just by being a perpetual ?
@@Lichor2369 he isn’t in contact with the imperial structure so there would be no point in giving the power to Vulkan
@@Lichor2369 Perhaps, but nobody knows where he is. Maybe the emperor does, but either way it appears that he is unavailable.
@@darkscholar625 too busy dispensing hugs; would only burn through the emperor’s power giving hugs out
Kind of like in the Warhammer50K fanfiction, but better...?
Having reflected on this scene, I think my favourite part is guilliman's first line to the emeperor in which he says "help me father, help me save them". He hasn't seen his father in 10k years at this point and is plainly distraught and repulsed by his transcended form, yet his first thought is to ask for advice so that he can save mankind. It may have been touched upon in other videos but one of the themes in godblight is that the emperor isn't a man at all any longer and that he is or is becoming a god. I think his consciousness is effectively fractured such that all of what he says to guilliman, both kind and unkind, represent his true thoughts. I like the part in this scene where he appears as a noble king quietly resting on is throne but then he also appears as a creature more evil and terrifying than the chaos gods. I hope they don't start including him in novels too frequently now as I like the mystery around his form/goals
"Crush your heretics, see Chaos driven before you, and hear the lamentation of the Xenos women" - My headcannon, you know he said something to that effect at some point
He probably said it to Russ
Xenos women are naturally bred warriors, unlike human women who only a select amount through years of rigorous training like SOB can manage. Xenos won’t lament, that’s a human flaw most suited to human women. Xenos females fight just as powerful and as equals with their males. I wish fanboys would understand this. *SIGH*
This is a different version of a quote from a different universe.
"Crush your enemies
See them driven before you
And hear the lamentation
Of their women
Winning the battle doesn't really matter
If the war hasn't been won
An open steep
A fleet of horse
Falcons at your wrist
And the wind on your hair
You think that's what's best in life
Let me tell you, you are wrong"
Song of Conan
@@CherryOpera Reading this makes me doubt you know what Xenos are entirely
@@jimnpen8451 I know, I can never resist the 'Conan was a guise of the Emperor' jokes
Perturabo has huge amounts of pride burried deep within him, but he is certainly one of the most practical Primarchs. Just the fact that the Ironblood had no windows, because "they were not needed" for void battles, tells it all.
The Lord of Iron is indeed that practical... but he also knew when he have to "teach a lesson".... and the events with Fulgrim and Angron shows he's more than qualified for that
"Windows are structural weakness"
Pertuarabo must've met the Geth
I'd take him and Guilliman all the time
@@justinianthegreat1444 I mean, they are genius in their respective fields while still have time to pick up other skills. If Perty was loyal, the Horus heresy would be crushed. Gulliman logistics coupled with Perturabo military engineering would be a bitch to deal with. Even Gulliman copied some of Perturabo designs.
Taking into account Big E has been sitting on that chair for over 10.000 years (chair which reduced Malcador, not exactly a slouch as psykers are concerned, to a husk in a matter of hours) seeing somewhat contradicting messages shouldn't be surprising. I don't exclude some of his humanity is still in there but keeping the tear Magnus created for this long doesn't help it
It funny, the last bit of humanity he has left, the one thing keeping him together, is just the thoughts of his sons and his closest and only true friend.
@@Fourtytwo4242 In your darkest hours those are often the things that keep you moving.
The plan was different, you know. In fury of Magnus big E shows how Magnus sits on the throne, just a chilling body and soul exploring deep in the warp.
I think now the throne is malfunctioning and does not do its intended purpose.
@@innokentiybredun6660 Given that it was built to build and expand the webway and not contain a giant warp rift I feel our warranty may have expired after 10k years.
@@cryamistellimek9184 completely agree with you. Nobody can return the microwave used as a mixer and expect get refund.
The Emperor sacrificed his fatherhood and sons for humanity. If he had truly given them the emotional connection they wanted, he would fail humanity by making himself and his sons weaker. I'd say Guilliman is being selfish, but I think ultimately he understands why his father is distant.
His biggest sacrifice was never sitting on that throne at all...
...it was choosing humanity over his family.
Random civilian: *coughs*
*Portal to Nurgle's Plague Garden appears.*
What was really said when the emperor spoke to Bobby G "Son it is time to go forth and claim some big tiddy eldar girlfriends"
Watch out for the goth ones son
The second great crusade.
@@gamedude412 I thought it was the emo ones you had to watch for?
@@____________838 Tomato tamato
"save me some, will ya son? My super Cialis will be kicking in in about 1000 years.
I am immensely gratified that your made a reference to Ian Watson's "Inquisitor" novel that had inquisitor Jaq Draco meet the fractured psyche of the Emperor in the throne room. Ian Watson is mostly reviled by many these days, but I truly appreciate Ian Watson's Warhammer 40k novels. Ian IMHO did the best job of portraying a truly depraved and truly grim, dark far future. His writings were at times very disturbing to read, and that is exactly the sentiment that WH 40k universe should at times evoke.
On one hand you're right but also Ian Watson is extremely horny and it really shows in his writing
What's wrong with his writing?
@@brandonhughes4571 he managed to learn how to write all his novels with only one hand
@@ultra-papasmurf that's a good thing right?
Learning to right with one hand
@@brandonhughes4571 If you a cultist of slaanesh it is arguably a good thing...
Guilliman: Father please speak to me!
Emperor: GOLDEN EMPY CHAIR GO *BRRRRRRRRRR
He has a vibrator on the throne? 🤔 not sure what to think of that
Wub Wub Wub...
About fucking time!
I have so many things to complain about...
@@lordcommissar7813Ah yes, the Golden Massage Throne.
Consider that Mortarion could see this scene through Roboute, and I would assume the Emperor can see Mortarion, what is to say other Primarchs couldn't do the same. From the Emperor's viewpoint, with time being a somewhat irrelevant concept for Him, he might be seeing all the Primarchs (or just some of them), trying to adress them all individually with his shattered mind, but at the same time trying to focus on the here and now and Roboute standing in his presence.
His last hope and His last loyal son might not be the same. Betrayer, liar and thief might be three traitor Primarchs looking in on the scene through the eyes of the Avenging Son, the judgement before the Sword of the Emperor carries out the execution in some distant (or close) future.
The many minds of the Emperor? could these be the original Shamen who ritual suicided way back when? Or souls of those who die loyally for the Emperor?
both equally terrifying.
That's exactly what I thought. I would say that it would make sense that they are the most powerful 18-20 Shamanic minds.
This is something i never understood; how could (let's low ball and say) 1000's of early human shamans have possibly created the Emperor, when humanity only grew to became a somewhat psychic race towards the end of the Golden Age? Humanity had to have been at best barely psychic back then, so how does that work?
@@doctorwhoinfinite one theory is that they sacrificed themselves, and the psychic potential of every human for... a very, very long f*cking time, to do it.
Or, the whole is greater than the sum of it’s parts?
Don’t entirely believe either one, but they’re both semi-popular.
Or the thousands of minds fed to him every day. If a few powerful shamans could make the emperor, what could billions plus the emperor make.
Ave Imperator! Tbf for the Emperor, if he seems inhuman its probably because he isn't human anymore. Whether HE likes it or not HE is a god now. Plus his soul is shattered into a billion peices so...
Not necessarily shattered but his attention is divided on an interdimensional scale. He's split his psyche to cope.
He is like spear mint gum when you leave it in your mouth for a couple of hours, just dissolving and becoming a entity just drifting away in goopy greenest
“My last loyal son…”
That doesn’t feel me with hope.
Yeah, that confirms that the other are dead, no vulkan, no dorn, no corvus, thats sad.
@@xzenitramx666 Or it’s open to interpretation… Somehow.
@@____________838 the other option is theyre traitors now and thats worst
@@____________838 My last loyal son, as in, the last one around. We know Corax is alive, and he's hunting Lorgar.
Or the fact that the others have been gone for 10k years leaving the vary thing they were made for to rot at the hands of the enemy. Yeah great job fucking off to the warp and leaving humanity to get fucked over. None of them could have stopped in during the 10000 year to just say "hi dad, just checking in" nope they just left home m alone and the species to fail.
I loved the Ultramarines for so long (since the late 80s). The effort, the love, the emotion and the unimaginable effort it must have taken the emperor to summon enough of himself to address one of his “sons” personally. Man, how intense is that?
I go crazy after staying at work for overtime even a hour, can even imagine the state of Big E psych after 10k even for being the most OP humie in history u just dont mess with overtime.
Fantastic scene, it was everything that it should has been; perhaps more interestingly is how Morti reacted to all of this.
He probably saw the emperor differently, as something more terrible than the chaos gods. He was afraid.
Mortarion did not take it well to say it mildly. What followed really ruined his day/week/month/year.
Poor uncle Morty. I truly do want that he gets his redemption. His badassery is wasted on being tied to Nurgle.
Moratarion is moth, he saw the Emperors light and was mesmerized.
Remember, Mortarion has not SEEN the Emperor since before the (end of) the Horus Heresy.
The Emperor has, shall we say, changed a wee bit in all that time.
For the last 10.000 years or however long it has been in the Eye of Terror, Morty has though his "father" was a half-dead corpcicle who he could kill by just gently pushing him his Golden-toilet.
He just saw that he has been wrong ... so very, *very* , wrong!
The only time the Emperor gets to speak with his son again is over a millennia later, and he still manages to mess it up as a dad.
Nurgle, on the other hand, spoiled his stepson rotten.
I see what you did there.
Sounds like the Emperor is as fragmented as the Imperium of the 40k and he's either trying to consolidate himself to speak to Guilliman or he's past that.
15:30 "Who knows Ian, maybe this is my next movie."
"Next Movie."
*"Next Movie."*
*"NEXT MOVIE."*
*"N E X T M O V I E."*
"A normal wrote this..."
@@zb33zzn32gv "And yet I find myself ostracized for wanting to cull them..."
25:33 The Emporer spoke all the different recollections of that scene that guilleman recalls, all at once, so that guilleman would have what he needed from the emporer whenever he recalls that memory.
I believe the Emperor did want to be emotional and fatherly, but he's so mentally shattered
Pulling himself together for a few words for a few seconds was a massive effort
Who knows how many millions died when he took his attention from protecting them to talk to Roboute?
He had to force the most important few words while wanting to say millions of words, but he can't
He's both the strongest he's ever been and the weakest
I’m looking forward to seeing how Mortarian reacts to this “conversation” between the Emperor & Gullliman .
"he looked in horror"
Man, I’d be lying if I said those few words from the Emperor didn’t bring me to tears. Ah, it hurts my heart
The Emperor may have been speaking to all his sons. His mind so fractured by sitting for 100 centuries on the throne and his perception so altered by his mind spending so long in the warp, the he was having difficulty discerning what is, what will be and what might be. The line "My last loyal son." might be him referring to Guilleman, The Lion or Alpharius, or any of the other still loyal primarchs.
I would love it if in the end Erda and some perpetuals visit emperor and fix the golden throne. Also guide the humanity. Guilliman needs help asap
Erder is a terrible retcon and should be scrubbed by the inquisition!
@@muchlove59 I don't mind primarchs having a mommy. And I guess some of primarch's blond hair comes from their mom. Emperor has black hair lol
@@muchlove59 I like it because it explains that eventually they were somewhat of a family. It also explains why Angron was kidnapped, The emperor faced the prospect of losing a son he cared for and he panicked. He is a human after all.
I'd be happy if GW keeps the perpetual stuff in 30k.
Fuck Erda! She is one of the main causes of the heresy. She's one of the main players in the primarchs scattering because she didn't want the EMPEROR to have them and if she couldn't than NO ONE can
Its been 10 years since I invested in the lore of Warhammer 40k. Seeing the Emperor speak after a long..... It broke me. I have long ponder where he has been, suffering and struggling to remain himself. I hope a miracle happens and they find a way for the Emperor to return the Material Realm.
The shattered minds will reunite at the end of this dark age. They will reinute in the shape of a mind once more, a paradox: a god, but a man, shattered pieces, but a whole mind, brittle yet unbreakable, the ultimate emporer.
Ohh last time I was this early, the Necrons were still a mortal race.
Last time you were this early, Slanesh was still a virgin.
Last time I was this early, the eldar were still doing missionary...
Last time I was this early frogs ran everything
Last time you where this early, the ctan were fart clouds
I think the multitudes of minds speaking to Guilliman is a reference to the old origins of the emperor being a multitude of psyker souls that joined into 1 to become the emperor
I want to believe this is Big E finally showing something every human knows, love. How many times in the Lore of 40k could things have been radically different if he just showed some humanity to one of his sons, to just be human. I want to believe this is not just some "The Emperor shows himself in the most effective way to accomplish his goal". A moment of true humanity, a moment something sacred, between father and son. To struggle with all his might to say a few words, words his son needs to hear to achieve what he needs to, to snatch victory from the chaos jaws of defeat.
I thought about this conversation quite a bit. If the Emperor is a conglomerate of souls of shamans that sacrificed themselves then coalesced together it is possible that those "personalities" are separating through all the psychic energy and time of the golden thrown. Individuals could be manifesting their opinions and influence.
17:30 This make me drop a tear, Guilliman the last hope for the Empire, the only son of the Emperor who can carry the burden of the ideals...
He talks like Alpharius is alive
Another nice hint
Hydra Dominatus
Well, as far as we the readers know, he is.
... or at least half of him is.
Hello Alpharius. Feeling pretty Alpharius today?
I am Alpharius. And it is correct.
Emperor:"you could not live with your own failure,where did that bring you?back to me!"
Yeah, Avengers quotes don't work for a superior story. The Emperor could come up with a better line than that dribble and has already.
I loughed out loud, wheb you reminded me how Dorn handled Alpharius. Oh Rogal.... Never change haha
It's interesting that the Emperor speaks with many different fractured voices, often contradictory.
This is possibly a call-back to the old origins of the Emperor from the book Realm of Chaos: The Lost and the Damned. The Emperor being a sort of gestalt entity created from the minds of many pre-historic human shamans who recognised the threat Chaos posed towards humanity in the future.
The many voices are the many minds of his fractured psyche and it takes a tremendous effort of will to pull them together into one voice.
Or you know it could just be the BILLIONS of psykers sacrificed to him
I wonder if the reason why the yellow king is trying to gain emperor's power is to stop his ascention to godhod as the creature which is being birth is no longer the emperor.
Damn Valdor is hiting his dad with that tough love
@@bloodangel19 You will comply with the Imperial Truth ... Dad. LOL
@@bloodangel19 the irony
I thought that the words his father spoke to him were in order of the timeline.
My Son - as he was created
Thirteen - as he was put into the incubator
Lord of Ultramar - during the great crusade
Saviour, Hope, Failure, Disappointment, Liar, Thief, Betrayer - During Unremembered Empire
That does not really add up because as soon as he learned that Terra stood he immediately set of to help reinforce its defenses and personally felt that he was a traitor for his actions even if he knew that they were purely logical and for the good of mankind.
@@MrFallenone good point
In my mind that was the “Betrayer” part
Underrated comment.
Pretty sure the Codex was the Betrayal and Lies
@@bernduelauert3277 thank you:)
I found your channel some weeks back and damn, you are a good channel, especially for someone who lives in a country where you can't find 40k books
Lol.
Inquisitor Jaq Draco of the Ordos Hydra sighs in resignation in the Black Library, and shares a shaking head with Cypher.
Keep in mind. Horus WANTED Roboute at his side during the Horus Heresy.
He knows Roboute is one of the brothers he can rely on when it comes to victory.
He even considered Mortarion as last piick.
Curious, when did Horus say that about Mortarion? I know Horus, I think in Slaves to Darkness or Vengeful Spirit, notes he is surrounded by monsters and madmen, that he'd gotten the worst of the litter, but when did he hold old Morty in such low regard? Thought they actually had some bro moments going on. One of Mortarion's few.
He said his best brothers were against him and he had mostly ,"defective" ones.
@@andresgarciacastro1783 Fulgrim would have not been one of those broken ones were it not for the laer but yeah all the others only joined out of wanting to settle a vendetta or they were just insane. Bar Alpharius and Omegon cus you only see what they want you to see.
@@fedupN You cant really take what Horus tells his brothers directly as what he really thinks about them ... he a master manipulator. That is why his moments of retrospection when he is talking to himself or his circle of friends are more likely to be his true feelings about his brothers.
Also Perturabo was the only one who was capable of holding his legion together for Horus to truly utilize in the Siege of Terra while the rest were mostly just thrown at the walls without much thinking.
@@MrFallenone There is some truth to that but I dont think its the whole picture.
Many different sources note the bond that Horus and Mortarion had, at least as warriors.
I think things changed over time.
For example, Horus loved his father dearly but that soured over time and the influence of first his position as Warmaster and then with Chaos whispering in his ears.
Also, I think you give Perturabo wayyy too much credit. He was as much a danger to his own Legion as the enemy, though admittedly not as much as Angron. :D
His paranoia meant he punished his own for minor or perceived infractions and his own inflexibility cost many lives and much material, such as when he thought he was fighting Sigismund in a large fleet battle against the Imperial Fists. Phall, I think, but dont quote me on that.
Outside of Typhus, Mortarion had control of his Legion fairly well, though as we know that kept breaking down over the millenia.
I'm pretty sure that the conversation was split. Mortarion is looking on while the whole thing took place. So the way I see it that there was the God Emperor/Malcador talking to Roboute and Mortarion, and that the conversation is a continually evolving dialogue.
Emps: My son... Delete my hard drive.
This gave me legitimate chills. Time to go book shopping!
So much is happening to the Emperor, that its a miracle he was able to even talk to Guilliman.
I think in the future, when the Emperor's destiny truly comes, we will understand that the Emperor is coming from a place far away, fighting an insane fight and could only give so much to his son before returning to the fight that must be fought. A fight that will define the future of the galaxy and possibly the universe.
I honestly wasn't sure what the emperor's first words would be but due to the strain on his body and soul, and the fact he's made up of numerous souls put into one, I'm impressed he was able to speak at all
I kind of have a theory that the Emperor had to pull together BILLIONS of minds and souls to do this, (i mean at this point the emp has been juiced up with over 60 billion psyker souls)
100% in agreement about Malcador. I took it as the Emperor holding onto his friends memory
Sounds like the Emperor from Ian Watsons Inquisitor is becoming cannon again!
Gather up the Sensei, Surely the birth of the star child is all that can save us now and close the great rift!
Never clicked so fast.
Seriously
Oath
Exactly!
Same 😂
Immediate... All I saw was "4 Hours Ago"... No time for reading titles when it's Wolf Lord Rho!!!... Just click!!!
RG is literally the pride of the emperor. The scene is built around that "greatest primarch" and "hope". Its the big e tailoring the conversation to how the listener best receives it.
Well the tear is the psychic awakening yes? and this also allows more avatars of the emperor to manifest. So, it is possible that in normal circumstances the emperor simply lacked the ability to commune like old, but with the psychic awakening he is able to slowly focus his mind. It's possible that when he spoke with Guiliman he was still at the early stages so with great effort was able to bring himself together long enough to get the important out in a psychic way, because his body as it currently stands is a husk.
Oh shit Guilliman is getting the every word everyone is saying by E's mouth.
This book was amazing, so much so the parts in the book that come after what you speak of in the video caused me to shout F yeah at 3am. Can't wait for what's next and will always be wondering nurgle, nurgle, quite contrary, how does your garden grow?
Yes, the revelation when Guilliman talks to the preacher at the end are enormous and far reaching. No matter how much Guilliman may say he doubts the Emperors divinity this book really cements the fact that the Emperor is divine and is helping his subjects in what ever way he can. Oh, and yes, Nurgle has some work to do in his garden after Mortarions little stunt went horribly wrong for him.
loved the music. From how you described the scene I think that in his mind it took place in many different ways as many different parts of the emperor reached out to him at once.
The Emperor begins to take his vengeance on the Chaos gods.
So in essence what big e did was the same thing he did in TTS when he got Magnus's soul back?
TTS is canon confirmed
Ave Imperator, gloria in excelsis Terra!
Courage and Honour!
I think that Guilliman really needed the Lion around, one to lead his Wars as the new Lord Solar (Warmaster) of the Imperium, and two... to smack his brother over the head whenever he thinks up an incredibly stupid idea.
To be honest Guilliman is the much better administrator, but he can only do so much alone and the Imperium is so very big. He needs a general that can defeat the enemy while he tries to get the Imperium out of its death spiral. If all the demon Primarchs where to muster their forces and push for Terra I am not sure if Guilliman can take them all on alone.
@@Destyvirago Yep. And given the mental state of other primarchs, it would just be another burden for Gulliman if Russ or Corax return as broken as when they left. Although Lionel is a bit disconnected, he is as stoic as Gulliman and won't cause trouble just because he is dissatisfied with the situation. His time spending on Ultramar created a great deal of mutual understanding between them.
Guilliman needs all his loyal remaining brothers around him because each can give him something the others can’t:
The Lion is THE General he needs to go take back the Imperium Nihilus.
The Khan would be THE best to send out to hunt Xenos. Can you imagine how much fun he’d have on Safari for Tyranids????
The Wolf King will fight for the people of the Imperium against ANYTHING. Including the Imperium itself. (Looking at you Grimnar)
The Praetorian practically needs no explanation. Roboute can just simply say to Dorn “I leave security to you.”
The Raven-Lord will not stop until every last traitor and heretic who has abused his people, his family, is put down and their corpse feasted on.
And Vulkan? He can offer what none of his brothers can. Empathy.
@@charleswacker7166 Especially Dorn, Khan and Corax. They are very good at sniffing out traitors within the ranks. Their sons have been known to blackmailing planets governors for withholding resource for war effort. The white scar guy read the facial expression during the conversations, the raven guard eardropped the conversations and the imperial fist guy hacked into the data bank of the governor.
@@charleswacker7166 On one hand, you are right. On the other, you are wrong.
The Lion, Dorn and Leman were very close to each other, enough that they almost tried to form a triumvirate to rule the Imperium following the Heresy. Dorn and Leman hated the Codex Astartes, and the Lion would have come to blows with Guilliman simply because he tried to rule the Imperium. Lol, the Lion was fully intent on burning Ultramar from the moment he arrived at Imperium Secundus, if he found *_one_* thing amiss.
The Lion is the type of person, a pragmatist like his father, who would sacrifice all his sons if it destroyed the Legione Astartes and brought his brothers back into kneeling before the power on Terra.
All of this is real! Guillemans mind was shattered / paraleled like his fathers. Each of the Emperors shards communing with a piece of Guileman.
I think the Emperor was conflicted in his feelings for the Primarchs, and that's the reason for so many descriptors. Tools, sons, it's not an "or." It's an "and."
Guilliman was just blasted by the many fragments of the Emperor and their opinions. The Emperor is too weary just putting semi-lucid sentences together to be able to care about Gulliman's feelings. The best he can do is try to match his positive feelings towards Guilliman with the negatives.
He was also talking to mortarion while talking with guiliman, which is where most of the negative stuff came from.
So... firstly G retreated to this moment quiet intentionally, because the previously the eldars seer reminded him to drow to the only power that can beat the godblight, and he did.
And yes of course I support you point of view that the caring father still live in the Emperor. And also I really love the image of the king just resting on his throne for a moment to come back to his people.
I think the Great Work shows that Big E can directly interact to people through their memories.
We need guilliman to talk to Bjorn. I want to read about that encounter
I think the different versions of the emperor is actually the different fragments of his souls. This tells us that he NEEDS his humanity back, he NEEDS the Star Child. Without the Star Child, what leaves the throne will not be the Emperor.
This scene brought to me an answer to the theological dilema going through Dark Imperium. Is He a god or a man? Something else. A statement which was few pages later re-iterated by Guilliman himself.
In conjuction with the comment by a C'than from Great Work novel, that the Emperor is a weapon, and that Belisarius Cawl continues the war of C'than against the immaterium, all the while he spoke with big E through timey-wimey stuff, I can't shake of the feeling we are in for a rough ride here. And if the Chaos is the Immaterium, and the Emperor is anathema to it, just like the C'than are...
Yes, I am eluding to a possibility the Emperor was created by C'than to fight the imbalance of Warp. To fight Chaos. I don't know if I am 6-dimenstional bigbraining from the heat, or my prophetic powers extended from Warcraft lore finally onto W40k as well.
I feel like the c'tan would have reacted differently if the emperor was their weapon. Plus while he fights chaos, he is definitely of the immaterium in large part himself. I think the c'tan just meant he was a weapon created by the shamans who sacrificed themselves to make him, to fight against the malevolent powers of the warp, not necessarily against the immaterium as a whole.
He is half way into a warp god himself, plus remember he beat up and enslaved a a chunk of the void dragon, why would he do that to his boss?
@@bloodangel19 fighting fire with fire. They obviously failed to beat warp by the means of reality, so why not try to make a weapon of soul?
Creations turning on their creators is nothing new in 40k, plus Cthan have a really shit track record with that.
@@Kunori that's certainly a possibility, altho I wonder to what extent would a Cthan be aware of Emperor's shaman origins if they were not somehow involved.
Plus I think it would be a bit more intersting, a true plot twist.
@@chaoslance4959 hmmmm i supose you're not wrong, but the dates wouldn't really fit would they? The emperor is around 45-50k years old while the c'than fell quite some time before that haven't they?
Tears fell from my eyes, after hearing the last words of our Emperor. As long as we have Guilliman, mankind still has hope. He must rule, alone, forever. Never leave Terra, stay safe.
In my opinion, he remembers it differently each time, because it was just too much of an experience, even for a Primarch, and so he remembers different parts at different stages. In the book he says he feels like he spent hours talking, yet to Valoris he was there only a few moments (if i remember correctly). Although in other books, it says he spent communing with the Emperor for over a day behind the door (two days i think?).
Another thing is, in the Horus Heresy series, several Primarchs say they knew the Emperor best (Horus himself, Lion says in the Primarch series he would see the Emperor without any guise (something to that effect), there was one or two more who said that as well i think). My point is, when the Emperor says he is his greatest triumph, his last Loyal son, this could be how Guilliman interprets it/wants to hear, just like other Primarchs wanted to be the closest to the Emperor, or perhaps even manipulation on the Emperor's part, to get Guilliman to do what he wants, and even Guilliman recognizes it as most probable (not counting that the Emperor supposedly knows about Lion being alive and possibly other Primarchs, makes it manipulation of some sort).
Guilliman: Dad, do you love me and my brothers???
Emps: I mean… yeah, a few of you guys, the rest kinda left the galaxy in turmoil and you coming back in clutch kinda pisses me off but…. Yeah kinda?
Just finished it myself, now for some Rho breakdown!
Rho, have you not listened to the audio book? There is a massive difference in the way you voice the Emperor's lines, and the way John Banks does. John Banks voices his dialogue, particularly the lines about him being a tool, in a daemonic hiss. There is zero warmth, and if anything, irony during the few fatherly words he actually uses. It even made me wonder if we were getting Tzeentch or a daemon messing with Guilliman. But the fact John Banks must have had direction to voice the Emperor that way for that scene really pulls into question and doubt the conclusion you've drawn. I'd like to think of the Emperor the way you are, but things do not look anywhere near as optimistic in reality compared to where the writers are taking him. Go listen to the audio.
This needs more visibility
Guilliman remembers the meeting differently each time he tries to recall it? It sounds like the warp has invaded the thrown room and reality has become fluid. Also, the Emperor must still be aware of the other primarchs, is Guilliman the only loyal one now? If we see Vulcan return, will he oppose the Imperium?
Makes sense that is was, in the very sense of the word, a revelation. Like.... prolly both Moses and Muhammad were a bit shook after THE LORD spoke to them. Guess it's only human to have a bit of a shaky recollection of the event.
so I take it to mean that guilliman is the only one that was loyal not to the emperor but to the idea of the imperium. that and he didnt fuck off to who knows where, he had to be sidelined by fulgrim rapey sword for 10k years.
@@fernandogomezfischer948 I mean yeah, but what about Jaghatai?! I honestly doubt the Khan would no longer be loyal
@@LucasSouza-jf1sm propably the emperor does not know about the situation of the other primarchs, he needed to discover them when they were growing into adults
I think Khan was never loyal to the imperium. He was loyal to humanity yes, but even before the HH he distanced himself from the Imperium.
Guilliman needs a friend. He needs Russ, would rip these Daemon Primarchs a new A-Hole.
I guarantee that when the brothers see each other again his big brother is going to give him the most mighty of hugs.
No, he needs Vulkan.
Think about it. The Imperium and Guilliman needs a second Primarch that can get stuff done without even more factionalism parallelising the Imperium. Like this, Guilliman can focus on other matters aside from the constant war. The Lion absolutely would not work, nor would Russ. They would clash all the time. Corax is probably too focused on Lorgar and arguably also would unwilling to listen to Guilliman. The Khan might be an option for this, but he is deliberately unknowable. Dorn in theory would be great for this role, but he will sooner or later also clash with Guilliman. That leaves Vulkan. Vulkan further would also be the Primach in which Guilliman could confide.
There's a chance Mortarion might turn as well. Now wouldn't that be something.
@@DanielWW2 Literally the only thing Russ and Guilliman have ever really fought on is the codex astares with each of them holding each other with the utmost respect.
@@LibreGlider i could tell you some stuff, are you afraid of spoilers?
Last loyal son, meaning there are no other loyal sons left, russ, vulkan, Johnson.
Somewhere in the warp, Russ went, "Hey! Wait just a second there..."
Smash cut to the Watchers in the Dark singing 'The Lion Sleeps Tonight'
@@2012Ascenscion but does this mean hes not loyal?
more likely means the only one not to deliberately get lost for the last ten thousand years
@@sword4005 I mean, all of them got a little bit crazy at the end of the heresy. They are still loyal but wouldn't be much of use if they return in that state. Gulliman did get depressed alot but he coped with it by working while Russ deal with it with alcoholism and Dorn by sefl inflicted harm.
Guilliman is the greatest Primarch. He's the closest thing to an actual human with real relatable character. He is humanity at its best.
I definitely agree with your take on things. It's a hell of a lot of pressure to be the Emps last hope as he says, but maybe that's also what inspires Bobby G to keep going.
Clonegrim needs to return. The redemption story would be bring hope to the imperium and he can use his diplomatic skill to keep it’s various factions in line. Besides, seeing him and Guilliman’s bumbling misadventures around the galaxy would be hilarious.
Isn't clonegrim dead tho?
@@gerardclarke1001 Nah, thanks to daddy Fabius he’s hanging out with Trazyn on Solemnace.
@@gerardclarke1001 he is in a pokeball right now.
Clonegrim is the only way I could see GW redeeming a traitor Primarch. Redeeming Mortarion for example? Never going to happen. It would suck too much for the Death Guard players. But with Clonegrim, you are not take Ng anything away from a other faction. Ignoring that they haven't returned Daemon Fulgrim yet, returning Clonegrim wouldn't stop them doing so (and would actually be very cool). I really, really hope they do this, but sadly I doubt they will.
Maybe the Emperor, after being enthroned, was, to some extent, split back into shamans?
There's few characters I have so many opinions about as the Emperor.
At the same time he is a proud but hurt father, cold calculatung sociopath, a
hyperadvanced being but still only human
All parents have regrets, imagine 10,000 years to think on all the mistakes you made with no one to talk but your own regrets.
"I really should have sent Angron a birthday present"
The Spirit BGM makes a comeback!
Something I'm very curious about is the primarchs true names, what did the emperor intend to call them, all there names are from there adoptive parents
Pertarabo always knew his name was meant to be Pertarabo.
@@colinbielat8558 ah yes sorry you got me there I forgot about that detail 🤣
@@joechurchill6945 Curze straight up rejected his true name and told Daddy E to call him by his cosplay name.
@@fbussier80 his true name was bob
Well Leman learned his true name. The author was just a dick and did not share it with us.