For everyone's information, the sax player here was a last minute stand in for the guitarist who was scheduled to play with them (who was in fact a replacement for someone ELSE) so don't be too harsh in judging his role in the trio. He only had a matter of minutes/hours before the concert to practice with Chris & Foley, so this is actually pretty impressive.
Man... I've heard plenty of drummers who take grooves and pass through time like this, but Dave really lays into it... he really is in control over which part of the beat he's playing off of, and it's hard to tell while listening the first time through. Any drummer called Daddy, or Papa has always started something.
Indeed. The original version featured the rhythm section with the horns (Miles and Wayne) playing the melody over and over... here, the bassist keeps the same bass line - over and over - while Dave goes off, and the sax player keeps that Nefertiti melody. This is indeed really innovation. I love when people aren't afraid to go back in order to move forward!
Foley's epic CD from the 90's was my "theme music" and always ran through as my educational influence. Good to see him active in such a powerhouse trio...( "Who remembers ,"Little Miss Thing , She ain't Wearing no Ring" - FANTASTIC TUNE !!! as well as many others from Foley's bittersweet CD of the mid 90's )
This is brilliant. He can go with the bass player, or he can go with the Neffertiti melody that the alto cat is playing. Somehow, I think the main beat is the same. This is really something. Dave also has that hip hop root in him that I really appreciate!! Once again, this video has excelent sound!! Love it!!
oh my god! This is insane!! I'm almost equally impressed by the bassist as i am by Chris. I mean, this is a really good quality video and you can just hear how clean and deliberate Chris is and his chops are unheard of... but the bass player!!! He didn't budge!! He held down that same groove for the entire song even with Chris' super confusing time related stuff..... damn. I think there's a jam on Tues.'s in NY that Chris and a bunch of other phenomenal guys play at, I want to go soo bad!
I hadn't heard of Chris Dave until only a short while before this gig, when I interviewed Matt Johnson, drummer on Jeff Buckley's 'Grace'. When talking about influences, and his favourite drummers, etc., Matt mentioned that Chris Dave was the local drumming talent when he was coming up.
This is like a boxing match from back in the day. In the pocket bass line steady driving at you and then all of a sudden Boom! Rapid fire flurries busting you all upside the head. Watch out for those occasional sax riffs, coming at you from the right. Knock out!!! Great upload, I appreciate it!
jzzart at 68 now , the music has change since the 60, but tony,s ideas has not only concepts....... the music was ahead of time then and still is to day and so is the drumming , keep it up dave . inprovizing is what made bebop and swinging is funk
Oh I see, I don't understand music very well. Thanks for clearing that up. It's a good job there are people like you around to point these things out for those of us who don't "understand music very well".
for those who asks what time modulation he made here is my answer.. there is double modulation for the sax part..first he groups the bass line part's triplets by 4 and then you have new quarter pulse which is 4 triplet beats long.then he plays swing beat to this new down beat so the modulation is : 4over3+subdivision3 i dont know this is the exact analization of it..i just hear it.everyone gets sick when he goes back and forth the bassline time to sax time and many modulations of them..
Check out rudiments of composition: It's the parts that make the whole, and saxist has his role, just like bassist who has a relatively small melodic role via simple riff. In this musical scenario, the only creative player is the drummer, but this impetus is only effective against the other instrumental textures making up the overall musical texture.
No lie, I was trying to figure out what the hell they were doing for hours; I just couldn't fit the bass, drums and alto together to hear the complete song. However, I played it again while I was drawing last night, and it all made sense. Everything fits perfectly. But now I'm struggling to hear what I only heard once, out of the couple o hundred times I've played this recording. . . this is really something else! Wow.
The original concept of the tune is to have the horns play only the melody (which Zhenya does) while the rhythm section goes crazy. The thing that Zhenya plays is not supposed to change, and Miles did that the same way in his recording. In this version, the bass line AND the melody don't change. So Chris can improvise or play with the melody line or the bass line (both of which don't change). Have to know about the original tune to appreciate what Zhenya is doing. It's "static" on purpose.
Never before had I thought of comparing Chris Dave to Dennis Chambers (even though they are two of my 3 most favorite drummers) ... but listening to both of them solo over an ostinato, how can I not? Of course they both have their own style, but I can definitely see similarities in the approach.
@bend222 I totally agree. I don't see why so many people are against the discipline/shedding aspect of music, as if everything should just come to you naturally by feeling. If you just rely on feeling, chances are you are going to rush, and if you don't have the chops to play different subdivisions evenly&you can't control your accents you are going to to sound out of time(in a bad way). As far as I know 99% of musicians had to work hard to be able to do these things naturally.
I'm quite aware of the original recording of this tune. I never criticized Zhenya for being static, my criticism of him is that he is clearly not communicating with Foley and Chris as well as he should be. This is much more apparent in the other videos from this gig, in which Chris and Foley leave him in the dust. I don't know why you would assume that I'm oblivious to the original recording. It's one of my all time favourites.
@cssource I think you're right. Went through this 10 times to confirm. It's a displacement. That's why it's such a mega headache. Because it's the same speed just displaced. But gives the feeling of metric modulation. Haha brilliant
The Bassist is the one and only Foley. Credits include: Miles Davis, oh I think that says it all. He is impeccable on the bass. Also has played with George Clinton and various other artist.
1:12 Foley's got his own personal psychedelic sweat lodge going on under that neon hoodie. 1:30 Then Chris comes back in with the cymbal like "bitch don't kill my ride!"
AO Folts Yeah.. Foley's neon hoodie is definitely about some sort of ancient bass sweat meditation technique... that only few bass players/space and time travelers know about...
I can hear the bass loud and clear in my headphones, so I figure it must mean that whatever speakers or headphones you're using don't have enough bass frequencies coming through for you to hear it.
I hear you. I think that it's really hard to keep your place when two different things are going on simultaneously (the groove you're talking about, and the Nef. head). I think that the alto cat is playing that way intentionally - he's not playing the Nefertiti head randomly - he's always with Dave, and it's tight. That's what's so brilliant about this - it's about the ensemble roles. You should check out this group doing Cris Cross (Monk Tune).
@imakery The thing is they can't ignore each other! they would not be able to play that if they did. at least chris dave and Foley. the sax could just follow chris but I'm sure he doesn't. they are feeling all the time feels at the same time. Foley is totally keeping his hip hop time while feeling the swinging time of nefertiti. they would easily be lost if they didn't stay on top of that. It's a demonstration of time. interesting music comes out of that.it may be hard to accept though.
@sweetoldetc there is nothing wrong come up with maths to explain what is going on..and as i said before explanation isn't hearing or playing it..explanation is description of something.im saying these for those who think it isn't a related time it's just about "feeling".. my answer to your analysis is correct every 4 bars their first down beat matches..but sax's time plays for 3 bars aganist bass's 4 bars.
i get how difficult it is to play in two completely different times like that but its extremely difficult to listen to... the bassline is legit... RIP Dilla
You don't hear the bass line and the head for tune as two separate things (harmonically and rhythmically?) To clarify - I'm saying the roles that each player fills is brilliant and it's no doubt Chris' design. It's the combination of ideas, not just what each player does separately! I'm not insulting you.
Does anyone know where i can find a transcription for this? I'm trying to understand the modulation. How exactly the slower swung Nefertiti section relates to the faster straight bass groove ya know
Nefertiti is a song originally by Miles Davis, the melody of that is what Zhenya suppose to be playing, which he's doing a great job at it and that's is his sole purpose
Michael Hammond you are right, sometimes it's hard for some people to understand that each instrument has a role in the arrangement, and the sum of them makes the magic, otherwise it makes no sense ,maybe it's because they can't feel it, and they think it's some kind of sport event where everybody is there to show off only.
Michael Hammond I'm impressed with Chris Dave , but if the bass line wasn't always there none of what Chris plays would make any sense, ahh and it's actually a composition from the great Wayne shorter
this kind of music is how the brain works. it's a caos, our brain is pure expression. what our body (nature) does inside is expression pure. my shitty opinion. don't be goods
@whosOHW I wonder about that....I think too many great players have said that in order for something like this to work, the bass player would need to ignore Dave. It's an interesting thought and I'd love to know their process as they play this.
it is for sure second and third ones that he accents.. there is 4 over 3 for sure..and for sure you can say it is Rll lRl llR lll for the accents..same thing different explanation.. math is for understanding it is not for playing im totally with you..but for the beginning math can explain much :)..
![[TH] VALORANT Champions Seoul - Grand Final - EDG vs TH](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/WvObMc9VelI/mqdefault.jpg)
For everyone's information, the sax player here was a last minute stand in for the guitarist who was scheduled to play with them (who was in fact a replacement for someone ELSE) so don't be too harsh in judging his role in the trio. He only had a matter of minutes/hours before the concert to practice with Chris & Foley, so this is actually pretty impressive.
So glad i watched all the way through. Daddy's too good for his own good. He's so out there. Genius. Props to Foley for not getting thrown.
Man... I've heard plenty of drummers who take grooves and pass through time like this, but Dave really lays into it... he really is in control over which part of the beat he's playing off of, and it's hard to tell while listening the first time through. Any drummer called Daddy, or Papa has always started something.
Chris might be incredible, but the fact the bass doesn't move the whole time is even more amazing.
Indeed. The original version featured the rhythm section with the horns (Miles and Wayne) playing the melody over and over... here, the bassist keeps the same bass line - over and over - while Dave goes off, and the sax player keeps that Nefertiti melody. This is indeed really innovation. I love when people aren't afraid to go back in order to move forward!
13 years ago I would smoke 💨 and watch this on my phone. 😆
Chris Daddy Dave is by far my most favourite drummer..
nice dry snares and cymbals
Chris is crazy...CRAZY! damn! amazing...his timing. i hope to be half as good one day
Foley's epic CD from the 90's was my "theme music" and always ran through as my educational influence. Good to see him active in such a powerhouse trio...( "Who remembers ,"Little Miss Thing , She ain't Wearing no Ring" - FANTASTIC TUNE !!! as well as many others from Foley's bittersweet CD of the mid 90's )
This is brilliant. He can go with the bass player, or he can go with the Neffertiti melody that the alto cat is playing. Somehow, I think the main beat is the same. This is really something. Dave also has that hip hop root in him that I really appreciate!! Once again, this video has excelent sound!! Love it!!
oh my god! This is insane!! I'm almost equally impressed by the bassist as i am by Chris. I mean, this is a really good quality video and you can just hear how clean and deliberate Chris is and his chops are unheard of... but the bass player!!! He didn't budge!! He held down that same groove for the entire song even with Chris' super confusing time related stuff..... damn. I think there's a jam on Tues.'s in NY that Chris and a bunch of other phenomenal guys play at, I want to go soo bad!
I hadn't heard of Chris Dave until only a short while before this gig, when I interviewed Matt Johnson, drummer on Jeff Buckley's 'Grace'. When talking about influences, and his favourite drummers, etc., Matt mentioned that Chris Dave was the local drumming talent when he was coming up.
pull, push, pull, push.... does anyone else feel that? ugh. so awesome!!!!
This is like a boxing match from back in the day. In the pocket bass line steady driving at you and then all of a sudden Boom! Rapid fire flurries busting you all upside the head. Watch out for those occasional sax riffs, coming at you from the right. Knock out!!! Great upload, I appreciate it!
Foley is right there the whole time....Any Joe Schmoe would need GPS to find the 1 playing with CDD...
jzzart at 68 now , the music has change since the 60, but tony,s ideas has not only concepts....... the music was ahead of time then and still is to day and so is the drumming , keep it up dave . inprovizing is what made bebop and swinging is funk
I would say Chris Dave is not human...so crazy!
Oh I see, I don't understand music very well. Thanks for clearing that up. It's a good job there are people like you around to point these things out for those of us who don't "understand music very well".
Mr. Dave is obviously enjoying the benefits of a deep, intimate, loving , lasting marriage with......TIME!
That explains it. This is crazy fun to watch!
Incrível Bass , perfect time 🎸👏👏👏🥁🥁🥁👏👏👏👏
nooooooooooo. way CHRIS DAVE IS A BEAAAST
for those who asks what time modulation he made here is my answer..
there is double modulation for the sax part..first he groups the bass line part's triplets by 4 and then you have new quarter pulse which is 4 triplet beats long.then he plays swing beat to this new down beat so the modulation is :
4over3+subdivision3
i dont know this is the exact analization of it..i just hear it.everyone gets sick when he goes back and forth the bassline time to sax time and many modulations of them..
FOr those hatin this is not for you this is for Musicians ONLY
FOLEY PASSED THE TEST!!!!
Nefertiti should be the name of the band.
Check out rudiments of composition: It's the parts that make the whole, and saxist has his role, just like bassist who has a relatively small melodic role via simple riff. In this musical scenario, the only creative player is the drummer, but this impetus is only effective against the other instrumental textures making up the overall musical texture.
No lie, I was trying to figure out what the hell they were doing for hours; I just couldn't fit the bass, drums and alto together to hear the complete song. However, I played it again while I was drawing last night, and it all made sense. Everything fits perfectly. But now I'm struggling to hear what I only heard once, out of the couple o hundred times I've played this recording. . . this is really something else! Wow.
Thank you...
I love how he just rides on top of the Bassline :)
Chris Dave is insane on the drums
watching this really inspires/deters me from ever playing again haha. just monstrous grooves.
this whole performance should be renamed: Chris Dave tests how well other musicians can keep time
hypnotic
wow amazing drumming
The original concept of the tune is to have the horns play only the melody (which Zhenya does) while the rhythm section goes crazy. The thing that Zhenya plays is not supposed to change, and Miles did that the same way in his recording. In this version, the bass line AND the melody don't change. So Chris can improvise or play with the melody line or the bass line (both of which don't change). Have to know about the original tune to appreciate what Zhenya is doing. It's "static" on purpose.
...Pharcyde meets Wayne Shorter...then a bit harmelodic about 2:00+.....quite brilliant!
Dilla for life and Miles beyond!
Never before had I thought of comparing Chris Dave to Dennis Chambers (even though they are two of my 3 most favorite drummers) ... but listening to both of them solo over an ostinato, how can I not? Of course they both have their own style, but I can definitely see similarities in the approach.
Its the bass line from the Pharcyde Tune "She Said" Dilla remix.
@bend222 I totally agree. I don't see why so many people are against the discipline/shedding aspect of music, as if everything should just come to you naturally by feeling. If you just rely on feeling, chances are you are going to rush, and if you don't have the chops to play different subdivisions evenly&you can't control your accents you are going to to sound out of time(in a bad way). As far as I know 99% of musicians had to work hard to be able to do these things naturally.
exactly.
yes sir!
Somebody plzzz get Chris Dave on Modern Drummer 2010 dvd!
Chris Dave as the new drummer for The Dillinger Escape Plan!!! One you hope!!!
I'm quite aware of the original recording of this tune. I never criticized Zhenya for being static, my criticism of him is that he is clearly not communicating with Foley and Chris as well as he should be. This is much more apparent in the other videos from this gig, in which Chris and Foley leave him in the dust. I don't know why you would assume that I'm oblivious to the original recording. It's one of my all time favourites.
DUB + Drum'n'Bass + Be-Bop + Standard Jazz
@cssource I think you're right. Went through this 10 times to confirm. It's a displacement. That's why it's such a mega headache. Because it's the same speed just displaced. But gives the feeling of metric modulation. Haha brilliant
genious
The Bassist is the one and only Foley. Credits include: Miles Davis, oh I think that says it all. He is impeccable on the bass. Also has played with George Clinton and various other artist.
THIS SONG MAKES YOU GO AHH
@theprophet86 This is great. It reminds me of the music that you would hear in the movie Love Jones.
This is jazz and hip-hop's take on math rock. Timing is essential.
1:12 Foley's got his own personal psychedelic sweat lodge going on under that neon hoodie. 1:30 Then Chris comes back in with the cymbal like "bitch don't kill my ride!"
AO Folts Yeah.. Foley's neon hoodie is definitely about some sort of ancient bass sweat meditation technique... that only few bass players/space and time travelers know about...
for a drummer it's easy to understand where he goes at 1:30. Such a cool idea and great timekeeping.
its a 2 bar phrase repeat. so as long as you know to keep correct time, you do any random beat and that lands on 2 or 4 and it will work.
Foley rules...!!!
I really want Foley's hoodie
marsellus wallace on bass for the win
@DarkHalo08 thats just the 'feel' of how they are playing it
@vorsybl You welcome sir. I believe he plays on track 1, 3, 5, and 7, while Ronald Bruner Jr.(not sure) plays on the remaining tracks.
I can hear the bass loud and clear in my headphones, so I figure it must mean that whatever speakers or headphones you're using don't have enough bass frequencies coming through for you to hear it.
yes indeed @holygroove2 this is a tribute to Tony..
@vorsybl Yes sir he is.
" Chris Dave got ALL of the so-called "hot drummers" re-thinking their shit !!! " Foley
wow
@YEAHbrother112 Yeah. That's exactly whatt he played.
@protorobsmos Hell yea! Foley FTW
at 3:17, the crowd cheers at something they can finally comprehend. haha
I hear you. I think that it's really hard to keep your place when two different things are going on simultaneously (the groove you're talking about, and the Nef. head). I think that the alto cat is playing that way intentionally - he's not playing the Nefertiti head randomly - he's always with Dave, and it's tight. That's what's so brilliant about this - it's about the ensemble roles. You should check out this group doing Cris Cross (Monk Tune).
holy bass....
There are two different rhythms being played here. It's not complicated. He's just going between the two, always coming in on the "1".
The abstract
@imakery The thing is they can't ignore each other! they would not be able to play that if they did. at least chris dave and Foley. the sax could just follow chris but I'm sure he doesn't. they are feeling all the time feels at the same time. Foley is totally keeping his hip hop time while feeling the swinging time of nefertiti. they would easily be lost if they didn't stay on top of that. It's a demonstration of time. interesting music comes out of that.it may be hard to accept though.
@sweetoldetc there is nothing wrong come up with maths to explain what is going on..and as i said before explanation isn't hearing or playing it..explanation is description of something.im saying these for those who think it isn't a related time it's just about "feeling"..
my answer to your analysis is correct every 4 bars their first down beat matches..but sax's time plays for 3 bars aganist bass's 4 bars.
i get how difficult it is to play in two completely different times like that but its extremely difficult to listen to... the bassline is legit... RIP Dilla
@tajto actually its seems as though chris is just moves the pulse to the upbeat instead of the downbeat aka starting his beat on the "&" of 1
he had to learn the songs like that day man.
It's definitely not separate thoughts, he's probably doing metric modulation
also great filmography.
You don't hear the bass line and the head for tune as two separate things (harmonically and rhythmically?)
To clarify - I'm saying the roles that each player fills is brilliant and it's no doubt Chris' design. It's the combination of ideas, not just what each player does separately! I'm not insulting you.
how can't that impress you...
heavy
Check out the original Nefertiti played by the Miles Davis Group. Tony Williams goes totally wild over the repeated theme.
I forgive you for taking my comment in good humour
@vinnienickoloff90 foley i think he played for miles davis or somebody at one point
Does anyone know where i can find a transcription for this? I'm trying to understand the modulation. How exactly the slower swung Nefertiti section relates to the faster straight bass groove ya know
why are so many people talking?! fucking London.
@ibarnettdrums its modern drummer either novemeber or dencember issue im not sure
Nefertiti is a Wayne Shorter composition
I wonder what Wayne thinks of this?I'll bet he is proud.
chris dave always look high lol dope tho
+Poppa Jon Chris Dave is always high. that makes me like him more lmao
Nefertiti is a song originally by Miles Davis, the melody of that is what Zhenya suppose to be playing, which he's doing a great job at it and that's is his sole purpose
Michael Hammond you are right, sometimes it's hard for some people to understand that each instrument has a role in the arrangement, and the sum of them makes the magic, otherwise it makes no sense ,maybe it's because they can't feel it, and they think it's some kind of sport event where everybody is there to show off only.
Michael Hammond I'm impressed with Chris Dave , but if the bass line wasn't always there none of what Chris plays would make any sense, ahh and it's actually a composition from the great Wayne shorter
@johnnylawrence23 Dilla? You referring to the bass line? What song, please.
@DarkHalo08 He's definitely on the same page!
this kind of music is how the brain works. it's a caos, our brain is pure expression. what our body (nature) does inside is expression pure. my shitty opinion. don't be goods
@whosOHW I wonder about that....I think too many great players have said that in order for something like this to work, the bass player would need to ignore Dave. It's an interesting thought and I'd love to know their process as they play this.
@quicktolisten Composed by the great Wayne Shorter.
i need these hi hats what are they
it is for sure second and third ones that he accents..
there is 4 over 3 for sure..and for sure you can say it is Rll lRl llR lll for the accents..same thing different explanation..
math is for understanding it is not for playing im totally with you..but for the beginning math can explain much :)..