Who has the FASTEST NATURALLY ASPIRATED CAR? Tag them in the comments OR share this video with them! NA or not, start building YOUR CAR over at www.fitmentindustries.com
Please do a part 2 of this video talking about the advantages of staying N/A as well as the importance of gearing such as 3.55, 3.73s and 4.10s. I feel like alot of young car enthusiasts getting into thier first car , dont know much about the importance of changing gearing for acceleration for N/A cars 🚗
there's a lot to be said about the reliability of an N/A v6 or v8 putting out over 300 hp. i think a lot of the reason why n/a 4 cylinders are going away is because cars keep getting heavier. 200 hp used to be more than enough for an economy car to be fun. back in the 90s and early 2000s cars like the civic, mirage/lancer, cavalier, neon, corolla, sentra.. they didnt need power to feel quick. they didnt weigh anything.
Very accurate. Cars also used to be a lot more "connected". I have a great example of this by having a mid 90s car, a 2008 car, and a 2016 car. The difference between them is ridiculous, in the 90s car, driving 30 mph feels fast. In the 2008 car, you dont feel like your going fast until you hit 50 mph. And in the 2016 car it doesnt even feel fast at 80 mph. In a modern car you are just so isolated from the outside that you cant feel anything.
@@engineerisengihere44 this is why I hate car reviews that complain about road noise/engine noise. I want to be able to hear what's going on outside of the car
I feel this is my soul it was the same way for me driving my 2000 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS then driving a 2021 Kia Optima new cars aren’t connected at all straight dead feeling
80’s/90’s/00’s Japanese performance cars were fun because they were small, light, and analogue. They didn’t have a soul, but they felt like actual cars. Driving their modern equivalents feels like driving a giant plastic iPad.
My family used to have a 2012 VW Beetle turbo. Yes it was fast, but the throttle response was terrible compared to my 84 Corvette with its measly 205 hp. I think that's the biggest plus of NA engines. I always find that big hp NA engines are more impressive than big hp boosted ones. That motor is making all that power by itself
But for most people, that driving smile and satisfaction of consistent acceleration, no lag and brilliant engineering is quickly wiped off when they are cut off and spanked by a Force Inducted car. For the Turbo people (alot are surprisingly narcassists) get their joy (to outweigh the inconsistent acceleration, higher maintenance, higher insurance costs etc) by showing people they are faster, insulting, blatantly showing off to stroke their ego and getting kicks seeing people try to come back but fail.
@@mikeyg923 Definitely agree, not to mention poor workmanship, associated damages and difficulty sourcing the exact same parts (cooling and turbo) to avoid tons of work and expenses to make it work again.
I'm still concerned about the rise of turbocharged engines for a reason you didn't mention: reliability and average cost of maintenance. All else being equal, I have a hard time believing that a turbocharged engine will cost as little to maintain as a naturally-aspirated engine with more cylinders that produces the same power. For this reason, my sports sedan wishlist contains 3 cars with NA engines but only 1 with a turbo.
Definitely more easy to maintain no turbo feed,wastegate, drain, bov,custom manifold/downpipe, bigger injectors, fuel pump most times fpr and return ect..if it's not a build that exceeds 250whp ita not even worth turboing a economy car for the extra headache unless your going racing...
Such a true statement I have a 3g eclipse that I’m trying to make 250-300 crank horsepower naturally aspirated out of ,around 220-240 wheel horsepower it’ll cost around 5k done right that’s going to last 150,000 miles or more with extreme abuse so to speak on a turbo 3g eclipse compared to around roughly 2k for a na 3g eclipse with the 4g63 Evo head to make around the same power
The hate that eco boost mustangs get isn't because they have a turbo 4, the hate is because there's a better option. I don't think many people can argue that an eco boost mustang is a bad car (aside from the manuals in them kinda sucking) it's that the owner made a choice to get a newer slower car instead of going back two years and getting the V8. Another issue is the staggering amount of Ecoboost owners who tell people they own a v8 mustang, yes I've seen it myself. It's a two door, 300 hp, rwd car, it ticks all the boxes for a good enthusiast car, and if it didn't have the name mustang, I think it'd be viewed differently. I've not heard of many people shitting on wrx owners for not buying an STI, Civic si owners for not buying a type r, GTI owners for not buying a golf R, and that's because those are actually "different" cars. Badged differently, marketed differently, aimed at slightly different audiences, etc. On the flip side an Ecoboost mustang is viewed as the poor man's mustang because a conscious decision was made by ford for them to look as similar as possible so that they can sell the cheap ones by the masses.
@@djhero0071 I've never driven one, but I've heard the manuals in the post 2010 mustangs suck ass. Not that they can't hold power, or that they don't work or explode, but that compared to any decent shifter they feel really grainy and nasty when changing gears. Idk if that's something that can be fixed in the aftermarket. I'm a proponent of getting the transmission that is best for the car. For example I'd have the automatic in almost any modern bmw before a manual because their manual transmissions feel like an afterthought and fan service when compared to the manuals in say a Honda or a Miata
There's no replacement for displacement when it comes to throttle response.... except for launch control and anti-lag... that's just the undeniable king of turbo pros over big NA
Car companies need to stay wise and keep the naturally aspirated car's strong and alive. Keep the turbos and supercharge engineering strong and alive as well. No one wants there electric cars.
Big daddy government wants electric. So you will have electric, but the software is privately owned. And you will own nothing and be happy. Just lease everything. Monthly payments and endless life working in a cubicle.
When you have high compression over square pistons, high lift cams, minimum 8k rpm rev limit, dual vanos or ivtec and ITB's, you don't need forced induction. Just drive it harder.
I have a 3g eclipse with a naturally aspirated 4G64 and my engine is way over engineered but that’s due to the fact I didn’t want to increase displacement or use race fuel plus I didn’t change the cam I just used lighter components it’s still my daily so itb’s would literally make it twitchy in stop and go traffic
@@johnathanhite3657 That's why you get it re-mapped once the ITB's have been fitted, so it idles nice. Half throttle on the peddle should still be half throttle on the ITB's.
I got the same thing dressed up as a Acura ILX w a DCT. After I got it i did research( backwards I know) and was so happy w the lack of turbo, the car dealer thought they got rid of old stock for me for getting it 😂 I rather have this k24 than the turbo 1.5 integra
My full "bolt on" turbo Subaru is a pretty good match for most full "bolt on" NA LS1 cars. It's all about what you like. 400ish crank is plenty for me on my daily. My current project is a E46 330ci that will also be getting boost and I'll shoot for a little more power out of that but still want good response for track days.
If you're running a car at a track day you're keeping it wound out most of the time, in that case "response" isn't an issue, I'd expect the turbo to be kept spooled from the high rpms youre maintaining. Response is a problem when you downshift or just roll into the gas in 4th gear at 40mph. Idk what I'm talking about I've never tracked my cars at the moment, but in the mountains I never have problems with response on my GTI that makes a hair over 300
@@grantkendrick277 You're mostly right. There's some technical tracks where you're not sure if you want to drop to second or keep it in third. A lot of E46 guys like to run a GT35 where I'll probably start out with a GT30 .82 and see how I like it. This is on a stock bottom end so if I find myself limiting torque down low too much I'll probably just switch to the larger turbo anyway.
As someone with a high power boosted car honestly I will never do it again it's a pain in the ass everything is expensive I can't drive hard with out some serious tires and if it rains my car is dangerous as hell. There are many times I wish I stayed NA and I plan on going back with this new engine gets worn out.
It’s so many ways to make na power without sacrificing daily drivability I’ve done this on my 3g eclipse every aspect of how an engine works can make a .1 or .5 horsepower difference
I picked up an 88' Naturally Aspirated Supra last summer. Pretty much no one mentions the MK3 supras with a the 7M-GE (NA) engine because there is a turbo option and not very tunable (NA-T is a mess). Do I regret it? Absolutely not. The engine is a lot more reliable and you have fewer things to worry about along with NA Supras being MUCH cheaper and easier to find in good shape. On top of that all it sounds like a million bucks and I don't mind at all (especially because 1-2JZ motors cost as much as I paid for the car...) People talk like this car is so slow that it shouldn't even be used and the engine swapped ASAP, but the reality is, it's fine and has plenty of torque. Instead of screwing around with the engine, I get to focus on the rest of the car and that is something a LOT of MK3 supra owners don't really do.
My thought on turbo cars..... "once everyone becomes special......NOBODY is".Turbos used to be reserved for exotics, race cars and just plain cool street cars. Now that every civic, juke, elantra, sentra and every other econo crap car has a turbo, it isnt even cool anymore. I find myself preferring good ole NA power now. The list of turbo wannabe race cars on the market is endless, yet I went with a new BRZ. IMO that is exactly what a sports car should be.
In my novice opinion, less is more for reliability. I trust my LS3 not to blow up at 100k more than I trusted my old turbo MZR in the Mazdaspeed I had before. Also I know someone with a Kia Soul with a turbo and it's tuned horribly for city driving because it wants to kick in the turbo but also not.
Mine ain't the S54, I've got the M54 and i love that E46 to bits. The feel of a straight 6 is amazing and i don't think I'll ever go back to 4cyl if 8 can help it
I had the M54B22, the 170bhp 2.2 baby six. The 5 series touring meant it was worked so hard all the time but it was no bother. Never sounded stressed or abused it just went for the redline through each gear with no fuss or drama. Ironically the shorter stroke and slightly higher compression made it sound and feel more aggressive than the larger motors. It was beautifully buzzy with a sense or urgency that made it feel very alive and vibrant. Eager and willing feeling motor for sure. If the redline was about 1k higher it would have felt like a big VTEC running on cream. Shame it was so bloody weak despite all of that but might have felt better in a 3 compact with a manual box
A lot of these downsized turbos for everyday cars run very little boost. The stress on the driveline would concern me more than the motor itself in reliability terms
I love (and prefer) my NA car. And have no desire to change to forced induction. Plus my na V8 is on par if not faster than most turbod 4 bangers and such. So i cant really complain.
People have become so narcassistic they have become power insatiable drivers. Of all the methods to gain power, Turbo is the easiest and cheapest (from a modders perspective and also manufacturer's). With the advent of cheaper upgrades (from overseas made factories), Turbo's became really affordable. For modder that wanted power gains without the headaches of achieving micro gains via efficiencies (that took longer and less overall gains) turbo was the modder's choice. When pollution restrictions increased, Turbo was also the cheapest way for Manufacturers to keep or increase power but still meet emissions target by having using a smaller but turbo equipped engine. That is because in the fuel economy targets it consists of varying cycles (city, hwy, idle etc). In the lower cycles (idle, slow acceleration) the smaller engine gave the benefit of less emissions, but with ability to burn as much as a much larger displacement engine the product performance did not suffer. So in both examples above, Turbo charged engines are become more common and the platform of both the casual modder and manufacturer, leaving natural aspirated engines a dwindling format.
Went from a FBO/tuned turbo 10th gen civic Si to a 2022 BRZ, and although the whoosh noises are nice, nothing beats an old fashioned N/A motor with usable torque throughout the rev range
@@k20z3keith7 yeah I picked up a mint AP1 S2000 last summer, DD is an 08 AWD Element that I'm swapping a K20A2 and 6th gear to this year... dream car if my crypto goes back up is an 05 NSX.
@@kalmtraveler Nice. Love how the AP1 revs out. Seen a couple Elements with k swaps and they're awesome sleepers. I'm planning on getting the KW kit for my Si. I'm FBO (I, H, E, and TB) and tuned now with most of my suspension done up and she surprises a lot of ppl.
@@k20z3keith7 that's awesome! do you know roughly how much the tune helped after adding/swapping all those I/H/E and TB? For the S2k I have a bored TB and IM but have really wanted to go ITBs just for the throttle response... and got a Berk HFC and J's 70mm titanium single exhaust en route from Japan hopefully this month (ordered back in July 2021) but wasn't sure if a tune would help much.
@@kalmtraveler 100%. Tune will make everything compliment each other. Especially since rev out high. Need WOT fueling to be as smooth as possible. Custom tune will give you that nice tight linear powerband. First thing I got with my intake was Flashpro since Hybrids 3.5in required it, but I wanted to start tuning right away anyways for my engines sake. Went through several revisions to get my data just right. Everything is perfect with zero knock running 93. Knock will be a lot with mods and no tune. Plus stock tune will just be dumping fuel to compensate. As far as ITBs I'm not too sure about what application is best. I've seen them more on NA builds with head work done
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From the U.K. where most cars have sub 2.0 engines and it’s only because of the introduction of turbos that power has started to increase over 200bhp on the road (beforehand they were still sub 2.0 engines n/a cars). European generally didn’t do big engine cars because of the cost of fuel and the roads aren’t designed for large cars but as lifestyles have changed so has the cars and preferences. I would say bmw and Mercedes are the musical cars of European. I bought a 3.2 mk2 tt recently I have never owned a sports car or large engined car (by a lot of people’s standards this still wouldn’t count as either but I see it as the most practical option for what I need it to do). Definitely missed out on some great n/a cars because of age
At 35 years old I was bloody lucky to have been able to own and run the motors I did, especially as I'm UK like you. Yet while a tiny BMW straight six was almost the pinnacle of luxury to most brits, someone in Australia was running around in a 4.0+ straight six in the equivalent to a Vectra, and even then that's the poor mans entry level model, the V8 is the higher spec. it's all relative to everyone's own opportunities in his time and space. The next generation wont get to experience fuel being turned into noise and motion as we have but it doesn't matter. From the ancient civilization to the present day the simple fact is that mankind loves his chariot. Always wants it to be superior or distinct to his neighbours chariot. It's kinda beautiful when you think about the love we have for things that don't have a soul, yet come alive another way.
Natural aspirated is more efficient than turbo when you floor it, because the air is cool and compression ratio is high. Also less drag without intercoolers and less stress on the engine from heat and less frequent oil changes. Adhering to the ugly econobox appliance regulations is killing the sports cars. Fuel economy tests are for going from A to B in a calm manner. It's not for the sports cars at all!!!
It’s way more in depth and fun to make a naturally aspirated build plus if you don’t use a turbo you’d have to find ways to extract even a .1 horsepower out of your engine without using displacement or race fuel my car is an example of an over engineered daily driver that’s naturally aspirated
Toyota removed the turbo from the GT86 to make the GR86. Despite the uproar offense of the popularity, and Toyota/Subaru had not settled the entire thing all the way, Jason Cammissa did by stating that the new one is faster than the miata. which, btw, the GT86 can't. And it has a turbo.
@@johnathanhite3657 I just had so many issues with my last turbo car. It was a 2002 VW Beetle 1.8t. Made killer power, but I went through 2 turbos, both were triple K' from BorgWarner, oil and coolant leaks from the lines that ran to the turbo, and I did have a 75 shot nitrous as well. Pretty sure that added to my issues. Right now I'm building a TSX, only want 300 to 325hp all motor. I'm good.
Pretty sure most of the time to squeeze the absolute most power from na usually involves high cost parts and smaller gains. We live in a tiktok world and boost is usually cheapest when its Hp/$
That’s a lie it mostly depends on the platform so high dollar or custom parts won’t be needed if it’s a desired platform Case in point my 3g eclipse if it wasn’t do to the fact the 4g64 and 4g63 had interchangeable parts dam near everything would be custom Oil catch cans fuel coolers CNC ported and polished heads with altered valve angles head gasket thickness fuel pressure regulator fine point spray pattern injectors crank scrapers windage tray etc…. It honestly takes more research almost like taking a drag racer approach finding horsepower in every facet
@@johnathanhite3657 it was a general statement and I can't help but feel all you described is literally everything need to squeeze every bit out of a self propelled air pump. I agree that an R&D approach is needed for top performance turbo setups, as any build does for that application. However this is more a daily driver oriented perspective when it comes to my Hp/$ rule of thumb. Im not gonna say your experience is limited strictly to the 3g eclipse. But that car came out of the box turbo so yes support from other cousin engunes. My spyder had 6 bolt bottom end Sirius head out of a kia a 20g wheel stuffed in an old 18g housing I had and put down 500 the ground on 93+meth. Cost me very little in terms of money and took alto of time to make things work. But its like you said. It all depends on platform and support for that platform.
Turbos just feel weak to me cause for daily driving, all you really need is all on the lower end. But I've never really owned a turbo car, just test drove some so I'm just biased to NA engines.
CNC ported and polished cylinder heads fuel cooler water meth injection fine point spray injectors alter valve angles lighten every component to make it rev faster and higher crank scrapers oil squirters more valves such as 5 valve per cylinder exhaust scavenging combustion head gasket thickness race fuel etc…
Point is it’s multiple ways everything can be modified to the highest degree to make a gain a gain is a gain whether 10 horsepower 100 horsepower or .1 horsepower I’ve spent a year trying to make my 3g eclipse make na power in all scenarios from elevation levels to fuel levels to outside air temperatures and the controls of engine fluid and the temp of those said fluids
Wait 🤚🏽 you forgot the 1962 Chevrolet Corvair Monza Spyder… turbo flat six aircooled rear engine with 150 hp and 210 ft-lbs torque. And I press like b/c osrs reference takes me back.
i dont mind the ecoboost cars, its just when you put it in something like a mustang gt youre pretending to be something youre not which is the sad part (i actually find this to be more of an issue than them being less powerful than the v8s). its like the kid that tries to join the popular group at school but just comes off as, for a lack of better words, tryhardy and cringeworthy. sure you could argue that the foxbody mustang was available with a turbo 4 but is that really what comes to mind when you think of any mustang?
Love my NA mustangs and excursion. Don't get me wrong coyote twin turbo on my Sn95. But a Godzilla on my new edge for NA pure torque and power. My Excursions v10 get 400 torque at 2k rpms. NA. And I can build it still
I actually don't mind the turbocharged pony cars since they are cheaper than their V8 counterparts and easy on fuel with today's prices. But I'm still torn on the sound because you expect those cars to have a roaring V8.
I'm here because I'm trying to learn as much as I can about the 2013 e92 328xi and I know it has a nat asp sys. If anybody could point me to useful videos or sites, I'd truly appreciate it. Thanks ya kindly folks. I knew nothing about cars last week but I'm aware that if I'm gonna buy this car, it'll be much more affordable if I learn it inside and out and do the maintenance myself.
So far, the water pump has already been replaced, seemingly just as a precaution after 110000 miles, since they're known to go bad. I understand it's an N52K engine with the plastic valve covers and the issues that come along with that, but all in all it seems to be a great car.
Live Cape Cod Massachusetts, na is way to go. Shitty roads, short and sweet. I stay away from car meets because I'm na. They don't drive yr round, I do. What I drive is a joke to them. Neon 2.0, K&N Typhoon intake, Mopar street Catback exhaust, MSD Ignition coil also plugs and wires. Enkei wheels and BFG tires. Not slammed down. Short throw shifter, Braum viper seats. I drive it yr round, daily driver...They can't!! So really what's better? And they spend a hell of alot more money then I do.
Yea na cars need a comeback. Turbos make power but the real game in tuning is na. 87% of the energy in combustion is waste in a standard car. That's the bottom line. Your job as a tuner is make that 87% do work. That's right 13% is propelling you forward the rest is all waste. Imagine how fast cars would be if you could do this. Everyone got lazy using turbos but that still didn't fix the real problem. They are still operating on the same ratio. in full waste.
@@johnathanhite3657 the tuning game got side tracked. Na is where you will find real power. Take the potential and make exponential. If you want to play the game to show how smart you are this is the way.
NA is best! ok ya its slow... but its reliable, can redline all day and get crazy high mileage with little maintence. Keepin my k20 goin till she dies, then I'll get another :)
Who has the FASTEST NATURALLY ASPIRATED CAR? Tag them in the comments OR share this video with them!
NA or not, start building YOUR CAR over at www.fitmentindustries.com
Jamie Marsh
jay leno, mclaren f1
@mclaren
Please do a part 2 of this video talking about the advantages of staying N/A as well as the importance of gearing such as 3.55, 3.73s and 4.10s. I feel like alot of young car enthusiasts getting into thier first car , dont know much about the importance of changing gearing for acceleration for N/A cars 🚗
love this :)
@@sanders2strong can you explain it for me? Haha got my first stick shift car and still want to understand how gearing radio works
Facts I had a 3.3 diff ratio on my g35 sedan I swapped it out for a 3.69 from a g37 and it’s wayyyyy quicker now
@@armandoaparicio8986 have you ridden a bicycle that has 3 speed or more?
I like this reply.
there's a lot to be said about the reliability of an N/A v6 or v8 putting out over 300 hp. i think a lot of the reason why n/a 4 cylinders are going away is because cars keep getting heavier. 200 hp used to be more than enough for an economy car to be fun. back in the 90s and early 2000s cars like the civic, mirage/lancer, cavalier, neon, corolla, sentra.. they didnt need power to feel quick. they didnt weigh anything.
Very accurate. Cars also used to be a lot more "connected". I have a great example of this by having a mid 90s car, a 2008 car, and a 2016 car. The difference between them is ridiculous, in the 90s car, driving 30 mph feels fast. In the 2008 car, you dont feel like your going fast until you hit 50 mph. And in the 2016 car it doesnt even feel fast at 80 mph. In a modern car you are just so isolated from the outside that you cant feel anything.
@@engineerisengihere44 this is why I hate car reviews that complain about road noise/engine noise. I want to be able to hear what's going on outside of the car
I feel this is my soul it was the same way for me driving my 2000 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS then driving a 2021 Kia Optima new cars aren’t connected at all straight dead feeling
80’s/90’s/00’s Japanese performance cars were fun because they were small, light, and analogue. They didn’t have a soul, but they felt like actual cars. Driving their modern equivalents feels like driving a giant plastic iPad.
Such a VW Scirocco Mk2 with 95 hp n/a 4-cylinder engine feels quick because it weighs not even a ton
My family used to have a 2012 VW Beetle turbo. Yes it was fast, but the throttle response was terrible compared to my 84 Corvette with its measly 205 hp. I think that's the biggest plus of NA engines. I always find that big hp NA engines are more impressive than big hp boosted ones. That motor is making all that power by itself
But for most people, that driving smile and satisfaction of consistent acceleration, no lag and brilliant engineering is quickly wiped off when they are cut off and spanked by a Force Inducted car.
For the Turbo people (alot are surprisingly narcassists) get their joy (to outweigh the inconsistent acceleration, higher maintenance, higher insurance costs etc) by showing people they are faster, insulting, blatantly showing off to stroke their ego and getting kicks seeing people try to come back but fail.
@@crxdelsolsir what?
@@crxdelsolsir Turbo cars are fun until you find out about "reliability" and "upkeep prices" and the N/A guy is still going at it
@@mikeyg923 Definitely agree, not to mention poor workmanship, associated damages and difficulty sourcing the exact same parts (cooling and turbo) to avoid tons of work and expenses to make it work again.
I'm still concerned about the rise of turbocharged engines for a reason you didn't mention: reliability and average cost of maintenance. All else being equal, I have a hard time believing that a turbocharged engine will cost as little to maintain as a naturally-aspirated engine with more cylinders that produces the same power. For this reason, my sports sedan wishlist contains 3 cars with NA engines but only 1 with a turbo.
If you want to go around turns you can't beat the curve of NA
Guys, remember..........It's OK to be N/A
Nitrous Assisted
Cries in frs
thanks man needed to hear this
Definitely more easy to maintain no turbo feed,wastegate, drain, bov,custom manifold/downpipe, bigger injectors, fuel pump most times fpr and return ect..if it's not a build that exceeds 250whp ita not even worth turboing a economy car for the extra headache unless your going racing...
Such a true statement I have a 3g eclipse that I’m trying to make 250-300 crank horsepower naturally aspirated out of ,around 220-240 wheel horsepower it’ll cost around 5k done right that’s going to last 150,000 miles or more with extreme abuse so to speak on a turbo 3g eclipse compared to around roughly 2k for a na 3g eclipse with the 4g63 Evo head to make around the same power
The hate that eco boost mustangs get isn't because they have a turbo 4, the hate is because there's a better option. I don't think many people can argue that an eco boost mustang is a bad car (aside from the manuals in them kinda sucking) it's that the owner made a choice to get a newer slower car instead of going back two years and getting the V8. Another issue is the staggering amount of Ecoboost owners who tell people they own a v8 mustang, yes I've seen it myself. It's a two door, 300 hp, rwd car, it ticks all the boxes for a good enthusiast car, and if it didn't have the name mustang, I think it'd be viewed differently.
I've not heard of many people shitting on wrx owners for not buying an STI, Civic si owners for not buying a type r, GTI owners for not buying a golf R, and that's because those are actually "different" cars. Badged differently, marketed differently, aimed at slightly different audiences, etc. On the flip side an Ecoboost mustang is viewed as the poor man's mustang because a conscious decision was made by ford for them to look as similar as possible so that they can sell the cheap ones by the masses.
I thought manuals were always “better”.
@@djhero0071 I've never driven one, but I've heard the manuals in the post 2010 mustangs suck ass. Not that they can't hold power, or that they don't work or explode, but that compared to any decent shifter they feel really grainy and nasty when changing gears. Idk if that's something that can be fixed in the aftermarket. I'm a proponent of getting the transmission that is best for the car. For example I'd have the automatic in almost any modern bmw before a manual because their manual transmissions feel like an afterthought and fan service when compared to the manuals in say a Honda or a Miata
If that’s true then fuck the “manual only all day every day” crowd.
Boosted cars are cool but I love the unfiltered sound that NA cars have.
Bruh Toyota 4a-GE 20 valve motor with itb’s straight porn!!!
For racing applications, an Na car making the same power as a turbo car is always better due to torque, response, and reliability
@yamahayzfr15 yes so they can break faster and the f#cked up system are making more money while the people are losing more money
There's no replacement for displacement when it comes to throttle response.... except for launch control and anti-lag... that's just the undeniable king of turbo pros over big NA
What about superchargers and what about twin charging
@@61936 twin charging is black magic but man it is extremely efficient. Almost 0% lag.
All the Hondas got jacked on 50/50 nitro and went 8's and the m1 cars went 9's
Car companies need to stay wise and keep the naturally aspirated car's strong and alive. Keep the turbos and supercharge engineering strong and alive as well. No one wants there electric cars.
Big daddy government wants electric. So you will have electric, but the software is privately owned. And you will own nothing and be happy. Just lease everything. Monthly payments and endless life working in a cubicle.
When you have high compression over square pistons, high lift cams, minimum 8k rpm rev limit, dual vanos or ivtec and ITB's, you don't need forced induction. Just drive it harder.
Facts 💯
I have a 3g eclipse with a naturally aspirated 4G64 and my engine is way over engineered but that’s due to the fact I didn’t want to increase displacement or use race fuel plus I didn’t change the cam I just used lighter components it’s still my daily so itb’s would literally make it twitchy in stop and go traffic
@@johnathanhite3657 That's why you get it re-mapped once the ITB's have been fitted, so it idles nice. Half throttle on the peddle should still be half throttle on the ITB's.
Well yes but no
Sounds like your talking about my slightly modified 97 NSX 🥰
And this is why I bought the last naturally aspirated Honda Civic Si K24 💪
I got the same thing dressed up as a Acura ILX w a DCT. After I got it i did research( backwards I know) and was so happy w the lack of turbo, the car dealer thought they got rid of old stock for me for getting it 😂 I rather have this k24 than the turbo 1.5 integra
My full "bolt on" turbo Subaru is a pretty good match for most full "bolt on" NA LS1 cars. It's all about what you like. 400ish crank is plenty for me on my daily. My current project is a E46 330ci that will also be getting boost and I'll shoot for a little more power out of that but still want good response for track days.
How many engines are you on?
@@Antspray1 😹😹💀
If you're running a car at a track day you're keeping it wound out most of the time, in that case "response" isn't an issue, I'd expect the turbo to be kept spooled from the high rpms youre maintaining. Response is a problem when you downshift or just roll into the gas in 4th gear at 40mph.
Idk what I'm talking about I've never tracked my cars at the moment, but in the mountains I never have problems with response on my GTI that makes a hair over 300
@@Antspray1 Original. I'm not an idiot who maxes out a stock fuel system with a turbo that's far beyond it's efficiency range.
@@grantkendrick277 You're mostly right. There's some technical tracks where you're not sure if you want to drop to second or keep it in third. A lot of E46 guys like to run a GT35 where I'll probably start out with a GT30 .82 and see how I like it. This is on a stock bottom end so if I find myself limiting torque down low too much I'll probably just switch to the larger turbo anyway.
I'm sick of the EPA"s constantly tightening restrictions ruining car culture. DEFUND THE EPA!
I hear you, but now they're doing there job. Global Warming is real my friend. Even if it wasn't, pollution is real my friend.
If there were no restrictions, there'd be no push to improve technology and we'd be driving shitty cars that make no power. Nobody wins.
As someone with a high power boosted car honestly I will never do it again it's a pain in the ass everything is expensive I can't drive hard with out some serious tires and if it rains my car is dangerous as hell. There are many times I wish I stayed NA and I plan on going back with this new engine gets worn out.
It’s so many ways to make na power without sacrificing daily drivability I’ve done this on my 3g eclipse every aspect of how an engine works can make a .1 or .5 horsepower difference
@@johnathanhite3657 I had a built NA 400 stroker I liked it alot
Hell yea that’s awesome
Man I miss the NA sounds, everything on the road is either a SUV or a choked turbo 4 cyl
Thank god for the big American 3 having NA options
or swedish turbo 5 cylinder bricks.... I got a 2000 Volvo V70R a week or two ago, and I'm still very excited
@@danielerickson4893 those 5 cylinders are amazing
@@169abr 1
I picked up an 88' Naturally Aspirated Supra last summer. Pretty much no one mentions the MK3 supras with a the 7M-GE (NA) engine because there is a turbo option and not very tunable (NA-T is a mess).
Do I regret it? Absolutely not. The engine is a lot more reliable and you have fewer things to worry about along with NA Supras being MUCH cheaper and easier to find in good shape. On top of that all it sounds like a million bucks and I don't mind at all (especially because 1-2JZ motors cost as much as I paid for the car...)
People talk like this car is so slow that it shouldn't even be used and the engine swapped ASAP, but the reality is, it's fine and has plenty of torque. Instead of screwing around with the engine, I get to focus on the rest of the car and that is something a LOT of MK3 supra owners don't really do.
My thought on turbo cars.....
"once everyone becomes special......NOBODY is".Turbos used to be reserved for exotics, race cars and just plain cool street cars. Now that every civic, juke, elantra, sentra and every other econo crap car has a turbo, it isnt even cool anymore. I find myself preferring good ole NA power now. The list of turbo wannabe race cars on the market is endless, yet I went with a new BRZ. IMO that is exactly what a sports car should be.
@third pregnancy mom uh huh.... Maybe. But not with you driving it against me.
NA exhaust sounds so much better
So basically everything I love in the automotive industry is disappearing forever...combustion engines, NA motors, H pattern manuals... nice
Turbo 4 banger squad will always have my heart ❤️ just more fun
In my novice opinion, less is more for reliability. I trust my LS3 not to blow up at 100k more than I trusted my old turbo MZR in the Mazdaspeed I had before. Also I know someone with a Kia Soul with a turbo and it's tuned horribly for city driving because it wants to kick in the turbo but also not.
Mine ain't the S54, I've got the M54 and i love that E46 to bits. The feel of a straight 6 is amazing and i don't think I'll ever go back to 4cyl if 8 can help it
I had the M54B22, the 170bhp 2.2 baby six. The 5 series touring meant it was worked so hard all the time but it was no bother. Never sounded stressed or abused it just went for the redline through each gear with no fuss or drama. Ironically the shorter stroke and slightly higher compression made it sound and feel more aggressive than the larger motors. It was beautifully buzzy with a sense or urgency that made it feel very alive and vibrant. Eager and willing feeling motor for sure. If the redline was about 1k higher it would have felt like a big VTEC running on cream. Shame it was so bloody weak despite all of that but might have felt better in a 3 compact with a manual box
Turbo cars don't last long and n/a car last longer
A lot of these downsized turbos for everyday cars run very little boost. The stress on the driveline would concern me more than the motor itself in reliability terms
I love (and prefer) my NA car. And have no desire to change to forced induction. Plus my na V8 is on par if not faster than most turbod 4 bangers and such. So i cant really complain.
Awesome video!! Hellll yeaaa!!
Always love seeing the e46 m3 still being talked about
Would never it, if I had one. Going to one of the top classics in a few years
Us base model bois getting ignored tho😭😂
I miss those 2lt 4 cyl N/A engines 3SGE Beams, SR20VE and the F20B.
Sr20ve gang!
@@brandon_buildsDIYover 210 screaming horses without turbo.
4:04 That old footage was amazing. The lady's reaction made me instantly LOL
A v8 is definitely something hard to replace. Maybe a smaller turbo v8 could be on order, but I wouldn't want to get rid of the v8 entirely
Sad truth is nobody want to be slow, now days everyone is either running big motor or bolts on added for slightest power gains in this new era.
Why tf y’all always make videos that answer my questions as soon as they come up in my head🤣😂💯
😂😂🤝
The F.I TEAM using their Telekinesis skills on ya🤣😅
People have become so narcassistic they have become power insatiable drivers.
Of all the methods to gain power, Turbo is the easiest and cheapest (from a modders perspective and also manufacturer's).
With the advent of cheaper upgrades (from overseas made factories), Turbo's became really affordable.
For modder that wanted power gains without the headaches of achieving micro gains via efficiencies (that took longer and less overall gains) turbo was the modder's choice.
When pollution restrictions increased, Turbo was also the cheapest way for Manufacturers to keep or increase power but still meet emissions target by having using a smaller but turbo equipped engine. That is because in the fuel economy targets it consists of varying cycles (city, hwy, idle etc). In the lower cycles (idle, slow acceleration) the smaller engine gave the benefit of less emissions, but with ability to burn as much as a much larger displacement engine the product performance did not suffer.
So in both examples above, Turbo charged engines are become more common and the platform of both the casual modder and manufacturer, leaving natural aspirated engines a dwindling format.
Went from a FBO/tuned turbo 10th gen civic Si to a 2022 BRZ, and although the whoosh noises are nice, nothing beats an old fashioned N/A motor with usable torque throughout the rev range
What about a larger displacement 4 cylinder that already has decent torque, and then, add assistance from a properly sized turbocharger?
what whoosh noises?
@@Mike_Atwell Always a good option, I'm considering a snail later on once I use up a bit of my warranty
@@Schizo_Milk turbo noises from the civic
@@SteezyKenny my bad forgot 9th was the last NA si. for whatever reason thought 10th was still k24
GM was turboing iconic cars in the 80s. Mostly the GNX and Cyclone
Never thought I'd see an Olds Jetfire in a FI video but i'm glad it's there.
Alex kicking Alex is the goatee intro for sure
It’s pretty clear the ‘73 Oil Crisis was a influence on the rise of turbos too.
The fact u mention runescape at all is amazing bro
Noti Squad! Everything is turning into 4 bangers and EV's and im scared for the gas car future
I don't know much about cars but I do love some na engines ❤️
Time to start collecting all those old N/A Hondas. We'll never hear VTEC again in the future!
Nope. Never selling my K20.
@@k20z3keith7 yeah I picked up a mint AP1 S2000 last summer, DD is an 08 AWD Element that I'm swapping a K20A2 and 6th gear to this year... dream car if my crypto goes back up is an 05 NSX.
@@kalmtraveler Nice. Love how the AP1 revs out. Seen a couple Elements with k swaps and they're awesome sleepers. I'm planning on getting the KW kit for my Si. I'm FBO (I, H, E, and TB) and tuned now with most of my suspension done up and she surprises a lot of ppl.
@@k20z3keith7 that's awesome! do you know roughly how much the tune helped after adding/swapping all those I/H/E and TB? For the S2k I have a bored TB and IM but have really wanted to go ITBs just for the throttle response... and got a Berk HFC and J's 70mm titanium single exhaust en route from Japan hopefully this month (ordered back in July 2021) but wasn't sure if a tune would help much.
@@kalmtraveler 100%. Tune will make everything compliment each other. Especially since rev out high. Need WOT fueling to be as smooth as possible. Custom tune will give you that nice tight linear powerband. First thing I got with my intake was Flashpro since Hybrids 3.5in required it, but I wanted to start tuning right away anyways for my engines sake. Went through several revisions to get my data just right. Everything is perfect with zero knock running 93. Knock will be a lot with mods and no tune. Plus stock tune will just be dumping fuel to compensate. As far as ITBs I'm not too sure about what application is best. I've seen them more on NA builds with head work done
The wisest thing that should be on everyone mind currently should be to invest in different streams of income that doesn't depend on the govt. Especially with the current economic crisis around the word. This is still a good time to invest in Gold, silver and digital currencies(BTC, ETH..).
Much more wins today, oh my God, I'm really happy for today 😊😉. I finally got my profit of $70,000 on this crypto investment after feeling so escatic and heavy minded that nothing good can come out of it.
I have heard a lot about investments with Mrs Evelyn Grace Lena and how good she is, please how safe are the profits?
I have also been trading with her, The profits are secured and over a 100% return on investment directly sent to your wallet, I'm a living testimony of her work.
after watching so many TH-cam tutorial videos about trading I was still making losses until Mrs Evelyn Grace Lena started managing my investments now I make $21,560 weekly. God bless Mrs Evelyn she has been a blessing to my family.
@@DirkDurchblick Honestly, I have really heard lot about Mrs Grace please can I have her info?
So when I finish my 1960 F100 to BMW E46 chassis swap do I put it under an E46 on F.I or F100 on C.O?
Lmao uhhh both? 👀🔥
From the U.K. where most cars have sub 2.0 engines and it’s only because of the introduction of turbos that power has started to increase over 200bhp on the road (beforehand they were still sub 2.0 engines n/a cars). European generally didn’t do big engine cars because of the cost of fuel and the roads aren’t designed for large cars but as lifestyles have changed so has the cars and preferences. I would say bmw and Mercedes are the musical cars of European. I bought a 3.2 mk2 tt recently I have never owned a sports car or large engined car (by a lot of people’s standards this still wouldn’t count as either but I see it as the most practical option for what I need it to do). Definitely missed out on some great n/a cars because of age
At 35 years old I was bloody lucky to have been able to own and run the motors I did, especially as I'm UK like you. Yet while a tiny BMW straight six was almost the pinnacle of luxury to most brits, someone in Australia was running around in a 4.0+ straight six in the equivalent to a Vectra, and even then that's the poor mans entry level model, the V8 is the higher spec. it's all relative to everyone's own opportunities in his time and space. The next generation wont get to experience fuel being turned into noise and motion as we have but it doesn't matter. From the ancient civilization to the present day the simple fact is that mankind loves his chariot. Always wants it to be superior or distinct to his neighbours chariot. It's kinda beautiful when you think about the love we have for things that don't have a soul, yet come alive another way.
Got my IS500 2 two weeks ago. Gone be keeping it for a long time.
I LOVE MY 2023 2.0L NA Civic Hatchback 6MT! still in break in period! hopefully VTEC still there!
Natural aspirated is more efficient than turbo when you floor it, because the air is cool and compression ratio is high. Also less drag without intercoolers and less stress on the engine from heat and less frequent oil changes. Adhering to the ugly econobox appliance regulations is killing the sports cars. Fuel economy tests are for going from A to B in a calm manner. It's not for the sports cars at all!!!
U will see my ITBS G35 in the gallery soon
love that you always refer to the 3000gt
That moment when you had to settle for a M54b30😭😭.
Nahh still a NA, but I’m gonna regret not getting that S54b32
6:46 Nice w211 wagon behind the tire smoke
@zetorih yep, I’ve got one… although it’s not an E55, but it’s got the backwards third row seats to compensate 😂
It’s way more in depth and fun to make a naturally aspirated build plus if you don’t use a turbo you’d have to find ways to extract even a .1 horsepower out of your engine without using displacement or race fuel my car is an example of an over engineered daily driver that’s naturally aspirated
My favorite trick is to swap the pistons from bank 1 to bank 2.
s54 ftw. ITB's on a slick NA motor is a great combination.
Toyota removed the turbo from the GT86 to make the GR86. Despite the uproar offense of the popularity, and Toyota/Subaru had not settled the entire thing all the way, Jason Cammissa did by stating that the new one is faster than the miata.
which, btw, the GT86 can't. And it has a turbo.
My car's naturally A$$pirated 🤣
Love seeing my BLQ’s in the background 🔥
Still here....NA is awesome
Do you have 8.5x15 and 9x15 in stock? 4x108, ET between +12 and +19?
Want to buy asap.
Thanks
My current build is NA. No more turbos for me man.
What happened lol
@@johnathanhite3657 I just had so many issues with my last turbo car. It was a 2002 VW Beetle 1.8t. Made killer power, but I went through 2 turbos, both were triple K' from BorgWarner, oil and coolant leaks from the lines that ran to the turbo, and I did have a 75 shot nitrous as well. Pretty sure that added to my issues. Right now I'm building a TSX, only want 300 to 325hp all motor. I'm good.
Pretty sure most of the time to squeeze the absolute most power from na usually involves high cost parts and smaller gains. We live in a tiktok world and boost is usually cheapest when its Hp/$
That’s a lie it mostly depends on the platform so high dollar or custom parts won’t be needed if it’s a desired platform Case in point my 3g eclipse if it wasn’t do to the fact the 4g64 and 4g63 had interchangeable parts dam near everything would be custom Oil catch cans fuel coolers CNC ported and polished heads with altered valve angles head gasket thickness fuel pressure regulator fine point spray pattern injectors crank scrapers windage tray etc…. It honestly takes more research almost like taking a drag racer approach finding horsepower in every facet
@@johnathanhite3657 it was a general statement and I can't help but feel all you described is literally everything need to squeeze every bit out of a self propelled air pump.
I agree that an R&D approach is needed for top performance turbo setups, as any build does for that application.
However this is more a daily driver oriented perspective when it comes to my Hp/$ rule of thumb. Im not gonna say your experience is limited strictly to the 3g eclipse. But that car came out of the box turbo so yes support from other cousin engunes. My spyder had 6 bolt bottom end Sirius head out of a kia a 20g wheel stuffed in an old 18g housing I had and put down 500 the ground on 93+meth. Cost me very little in terms of money and took alto of time to make things work.
But its like you said. It all depends on platform and support for that platform.
That’s pretty awesome dude not bad but do understand what you are saying
Hell yeah DDS is still a turbo charged V12 in OSRS♥️♥️
Turbos just feel weak to me cause for daily driving, all you really need is all on the lower end. But I've never really owned a turbo car, just test drove some so I'm just biased to NA engines.
I love N/A cars. Especially since you can find em with great power, and build from there. Also, electric cars... Gross.
What can you do to build an na car? I just know about more aggressive cams, but headers, intake and exhaust should be great from factory right?
CNC ported and polished cylinder heads fuel cooler water meth injection fine point spray injectors alter valve angles lighten every component to make it rev faster and higher crank scrapers oil squirters more valves such as 5 valve per cylinder exhaust scavenging combustion head gasket thickness race fuel etc…
Point is it’s multiple ways everything can be modified to the highest degree to make a gain a gain is a gain whether 10 horsepower 100 horsepower or .1 horsepower I’ve spent a year trying to make my 3g eclipse make na power in all scenarios from elevation levels to fuel levels to outside air temperatures and the controls of engine fluid and the temp of those said fluids
@@hamdawgms The same stuff you can do to a turbo engine sir.
@@onireno whats that? sorry, kinda new. a tune and injectors/pump?
4g69 is the best.
Wait 🤚🏽 you forgot the 1962 Chevrolet Corvair Monza Spyder… turbo flat six aircooled rear engine with 150 hp and 210 ft-lbs torque. And I press like b/c osrs reference takes me back.
Buick GNX and Turbo T/A: Are we jokes to you?
I just want a 400hp 9000rpm VQ 😩
I can help you get to 400 horsepower without breaking a sweat no turbo or supercharger needed!!!
About time you guys cover Honda’s y’all sleeping
i dont mind the ecoboost cars, its just when you put it in something like a mustang gt youre pretending to be something youre not which is the sad part (i actually find this to be more of an issue than them being less powerful than the v8s). its like the kid that tries to join the popular group at school but just comes off as, for a lack of better words, tryhardy and cringeworthy. sure you could argue that the foxbody mustang was available with a turbo 4 but is that really what comes to mind when you think of any mustang?
Throttle response on my old LS400 makes my new Audi feel like shit ngl. Nevermind me forgetting the UZFE even existed
The s12 had a turbo option in the USA yeah Nissan sold a turboed s-chassis in the usa. Mind blown 😳
Cars that come factory turbo have a lot more potential than factory na cars
Team N/A, we a small team but we a team lol
🤟🏼🤣🤟🏼
Love my NA mustangs and excursion. Don't get me wrong coyote twin turbo on my Sn95. But a Godzilla on my new edge for NA pure torque and power. My Excursions v10 get 400 torque at 2k rpms. NA. And I can build it still
Christmas in the building
I don't even have to finish the video to answer: ITS EXPENSIVEEEEEEE.
Not really
Please do a video on the Nissan NX2000
Can you guys consider doing a e60 episode !?!? 550i n/a v8 🤫
Nissan made the best sounding NA straight sixes. Chrysler as well. not the jeep.
I actually don't mind the turbocharged pony cars since they are cheaper than their V8 counterparts and easy on fuel with today's prices. But I'm still torn on the sound because you expect those cars to have a roaring V8.
They get a bad rep, but have a lot of potential! -Edgar
What stock everyone knows that force induction is always better and funner
Can big mike please have his own video?
People stopped giving a fuck about the longevity of their ride, and became concerned with their econobox’s 1/4 mile times…
Yup. My 2012 Mazda 3 is reliable and good on gas. Sure it's not fast but it's fun down the gravel roads here and gets me where I need to go
Does a video about NA, spends the whole time talking about turbos.
This video is fueled by EPA.
Vtech baby
So.....quinn over at the slip angle as a na nb1 it has itbs and has about 180 whp....he literally thrashes on it. It just keeps going and going.
Wow I thought the first turbo car was a Saab lol guess you learn something new everyday
love the runescape jokes
I'm here because I'm trying to learn as much as I can about the 2013 e92 328xi and I know it has a nat asp sys. If anybody could point me to useful videos or sites, I'd truly appreciate it. Thanks ya kindly folks. I knew nothing about cars last week but I'm aware that if I'm gonna buy this car, it'll be much more affordable if I learn it inside and out and do the maintenance myself.
So far, the water pump has already been replaced, seemingly just as a precaution after 110000 miles, since they're known to go bad. I understand it's an N52K engine with the plastic valve covers and the issues that come along with that, but all in all it seems to be a great car.
The RuneScape reference 😂😂
I love NA’s but snails are sweeter
eBay turbos happened
Live Cape Cod Massachusetts, na is way to go. Shitty roads, short and sweet. I stay away from car meets because I'm na. They don't drive yr round, I do. What I drive is a joke to them. Neon 2.0, K&N Typhoon intake, Mopar street Catback exhaust, MSD Ignition coil also plugs and wires. Enkei wheels and BFG tires. Not slammed down. Short throw shifter, Braum viper seats. I drive it yr round, daily driver...They can't!! So really what's better? And they spend a hell of alot more money then I do.
ya'll should do a video about motorex.Like what happenned to them
Yea na cars need a comeback. Turbos make power but the real game in tuning is na. 87% of the energy in combustion is waste in a standard car. That's the bottom line. Your job as a tuner is make that 87% do work. That's right 13% is propelling you forward the rest is all waste. Imagine how fast cars would be if you could do this. Everyone got lazy using turbos but that still didn't fix the real problem. They are still operating on the same ratio. in full waste.
Bro get out of my head lol 😂 I literally was thinking about imagine making or modifying your engine to turn 50% of fuel into useful work
@@johnathanhite3657 the tuning game got side tracked. Na is where you will find real power. Take the potential and make exponential. If you want to play the game to show how smart you are this is the way.
NA is best! ok ya its slow... but its reliable, can redline all day and get crazy high mileage with little maintence. Keepin my k20 goin till she dies, then I'll get another :)