Hi Charlie, you made a good job of that mod to bond the stock rails and switch rails. As you’ll be aware, the Peco switch rails are hollow from underneath. I find it easier to solder the end of the wire into this hollow. I use DCC Concepts Sapphire No-Clean Flux to help, which I first tried about three years ago. Like you I use lead/tin solder with flux in it, I’ve used it for years and have tried modern lead fee types but none measure up to good old fashioned lead/tin ! But even so, I’ve found that brushing a tiny amount of the Sapphire flux on to rails before the solder works wonders. It means I can use less heat and hold the iron against the rails for a shorter time. I’ll send you some, if you don’t get on with it, don’t worry, I won’t be offended ! Otherwise, that was quite a marathon video this time, packed with useful tips. I really love those template things to help with getting the holes drilled in the right place for the point motors. I think I need to invest in some ! Take care mate, Happy Easter to you and Margaret.
Hi Bryan, I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it. Your example and technique was crucial. I’ll order some flux next week, before I tackle the other points. Have a great Easter, regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway I’ve ordered some flux for you Charlie, it’ll be on its way when DCC Concepts open again on Tuesday ! Good luck, I’ve never looked back since I started using it.
Agree, flux is the answer, no need to “scrape”. Not too sure about the ongoing ad for DCC Concepts products though - plenty of flux gels in syringes on sale that work great, probably a lot cheaper than the advertised brand too.
One soldering tip I would always recommend is to have a cheap usb desk fan gently running to one side. Now when you apply the solder to the iron, the smoke produced (which I believe is the built in flux burning, but for all I know may contain other horrible components) will be blown away and not breathed in.
The smoke is resin or rosin vapour and yes it is harmful if inhaled. But not disastrous if only used occasionally. Workers in electronics often use air extraction systems to pull the smoke away from themselves. Over many years I learned to synchronise my breathing so I exhale when applying the solder, both to avoid inhaling the smoke and to do the job of the USB fan myself 😆
@@ChadwickModelRailwayCharlie you don’t need to scratch the surface for soldering unless it’s oxidised. Unlike adhesives which benefit from mechanical keying, soldering is a chemical process which forms an alloy with the base metal when done properly. That’s one reason not to try to “glue” metal together with solder (by putting solder on the iron then wiping it on the joint), but make a fully formed soldered joint.
When I had my model railway many years ago the electric points were combined with the motors so were very easy to install. Nowdays it seems you have to have the points separate from the motors connected by a rod and it looks very fiddly. Can you still get points with built in motors?
Another great demonstration. I love the awesome comment "fake your own death" rather than watch the process of wiring the blocks. Thank you for taking the time to show us the whole setup.
Hi Charlie I used electrofrog points and had to remove the springs as you do for smooth slow IP Digital switch motors rather than solenoids . (same would apply to slips) The problem her is that the switching rail can pull out from where it is hinged (as you showed). Your Friend Brian solders a link from the outside rail to the switch rail as you have done, this does not stop the switch rail pulling out. I used some very thin wire and soldered a link ACROSS the hinge of the switch rail which gives it continuity and stops the hinge rail from pulling out. Because there is plenty of leverage at this point it does not hinder the free movemnet of it pivoting. Regards
You raise an excellent point. I place a thin strip of plasti card in front of the switch. This limits, if not removes the possibility of the rails creeping apart. Regards Charlie.
Thank you Charlie, a great video. I always thought something was missing from all the other point motor videos that “powered” their droppers from the point motor. 😂 When in fact they were just taking power from the track. I like your double wire method but I make the join at the point motor terminal instead so just one set running through the hole in the baseboard to the track. Thanks again, happy Easter. David
Hi Charlie, in Peco points, there is a groove under the sleepers near the frog. The frog wire is in this when it comes out of the packet. Why not just leave the wire coming out of the sleeper end, solder on your green wire, and drill the hole to the side of the point, not directly underneath it. I've done this with mine. Works fine. No hacking away at sleepers, soldering to the frog, taking best guess at where to drill the hole. Plus, there is less chance of pulling off the Peco wire. Please don't think I'm trying to teach you how to suck Eggs. We all have our own way of doing things.
I do take your point regarding leaving the wire in the groove. However, I still view it as being vulnerable. I imagine it’s just a case of horses for courses really. Regards, Charlie.
Thanks Charlie for another really informative video. I don't think I will wire up the switch blades on my points, it seems a little bit too much work. For those that are interested it's the York Model Railway Show this Easter weekend at the Racecourse. I look forward to the next video.
Hi Charlie, great video and is a good add on to the ‘many’ frogs demonstration. Also well done in getting acknowledged in the nmra Turntable magazine, very international!
Great stuff Charlie, a soldering masterclass in some fiddly areas. Just shows amount of work needed for just one point! Happy Easter to you and your family. Time for some chocolate!
Thank you for another instructive video. Shall not dare embark on the “bonding” wiring - if you can’t do it, no chance I can!!! Even so, it is a most interesting idea. I’ll have “a go” at wiring a double slip, though! Happy Easter.
Thanks Charlie and I will refer back to the videos you summarised when I get to this stage again with my new code 75 layout. Your explanations are always top notch and probably do mom for the hobby than you realise. Happy Easter 👏👍
Thanks Charlie I was one of those who has had his subscription terminated and now I’ve subscribed to all your videos so hopefully I won’t miss out anymore 1:10
Another great video Charlie. Only one suggestion this time. Instead of looping the switch rail to the stock rail, why not use 7/.2 or 10/.1 soldered to the switch rail, leave some slack for movement, and take them to your buss feeds? That way you only have to get the soldering iron to the switch rails. Less risk of melting the sleepers. David…
Thanks for your reply Charlie, always appreciated. Had another thought, connect the dropper wires from the switch rails in with the feeds at the frog switch. That’ll keep them nice and short…dB@@ChadwickModelRailway
Nice one Charlie. All my points and signals on my O gauge layout are under PLC control with an HMI interface. I have my own track detection and use Lenze DCC control. Being a control systems engineer things that you describe in the video are straightforward but none the less it's always good to do these informative videos. Keep going and thanks for the video.
Hi Charlie, another good one, thanks. I have inserted a small piece of plastic between the guide arm for the point switch and the sleeper behind it. This stops the switch rails from moving backwards. It one needs something about 1-1.5 mm to work very efficiently. Easier than soldering and can be retrofitted for poorly aligned switch rails. Worth a try? Steve.
I think this was covered further down the comments section, but just to reiterate in case of any confusion; the soldering and clearance of the plastic at the frog location looked a bit awkward, so I thought it through and came to the idea that the frog is one solid item and the wire could be soldered anywhere right up to the locations where the insulating fishplates are to fit, where there is much more room for clearance of your knife and soldering iron. Hope this helps, Paul in Cornwall.
Hi Charlie, Probably already been said but so many comments to go through now!! An easier way to wire the toe rails is a thin wire soldered on the back of the rail bridging the gap. (no solder at the join/hinge to give the flex and movement needed.) only need a few strands soldered to maintain flexibility but give good power conductivity.
Perfect timing, Charlie! A day early and four-and six ready! I have four Peco bullhead double slips to install this weekend, and this has made a difference. It usually seems to work out that within a week after doing some complex task your newest video covers just that, but a bit late for me. Unfortunately, for those of us across the pond, Scenic 3D won't ship outside of the UK, so far, so the new challenge is making one's own template. Just one more step in the process.
Hi Charlie, Very well explained process. I like Brian's idea. No surprise to see those prefitted wires being weak. Be great to see this goods yard operational your getting very close now!! Have a great Easter!!
Fascinating stuff, Charlie…….watching you run through your thought processes on track fitting (particularly these complicated Points) is utterly invaluable to my own deliberations on tack-planning. My own layout progress is now at the stage where I need to start making some vital decisions on what points to use, and where to put them. These last few videos are ‘essential viewing’ for me….thank you so much 🙏 and Happy Easter
Excellent Charlie. Ever tried using telephone wire for frogs? Slightly heavier gauge than frog wire and is solid copper. Should take 25v DC. I’ve used it on some points as an experiment with a CDU with no problems. My son in laws late father, wired his whole layout with it. 👀 Never had a glitch with the wiring
Hi Charlie, love the videos and demonstrations you provide. It shows, like most of us, there is a real passion for the hobby. My question to you would be ‘as life gets ever expensive, are we doomed to be priced out of the hobby with it being too expensive? In particular the new models are becoming very detailed with lots of gimmicks like sounds, etc. It doesn’t seem like pocket money stuff, like from our childhood anymore. Thanks
I do agree Steven to a certain extent. Track and wagons are still reasonably priced but the high tech end of DCC, can be dreadfully expensive. The second hand market is alive and well. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie another excellent video. I, however, have an N Gauge layout, I don’t think it would be easy to solder the wires across the blades, but I can appreciate why it is done. Keep up the great work Regards Keith
Hello Charlie. I'm modelling O-16.5, and the points (L.H., R.H., and 'Y'), do not have a frog wire that can be easily attached to like some of the points in the rest of the Peco range.. They are electrofrog, and a very helpful gent in the U.K. sent me a diagram detailing the necessary locations to attach the feeds, the rail links, and the necessary location to cut the switch rails to isolate the frog. I read about a On30 modeller in the U.S. who purchased a small hobby spot welder to duplicate the way that Peco attaches the fine wire to their manufactured points. The heat generated by spot welding is very localized, is instant, and tends not to melt the plastic in any way. I believe that spot welders for hobby use range in price by quite a bit, but if a person wanted to take up a part time job of making battery packs, perhaps one could come in handy? I find that soldering these O-16.5 points is quite finicky, as there is not much room, and the point can become a melted mess if not very careful. Not sure what the answer is, but maybe Unifrog production in the future may include the O-16.5 range. Until then I will sold(i)er on.... EW
Charlie, it does make me wonder why it should take so long? Surely Peco have the volume and market share to make this happen promptly or do we accept track is not a topic for advances and disruption seen in other areas of our hobby?
Very well presented; suitable for beginners and more experienced modellers. I love the way you talk through the process as you are filming it, makes things easier to follow. How do you empty the solder sucker? As surely the solder will solidify.
I've had the flimsy frog wire break in situ. As both rails leading from the frog are a common connection, I use an insulated fishplate on one rail as normal, and a metal fishplate with a wire soldered to it on the other rail to energise the frog. I cut an insulated gap and insert a plastic fishplate about 50mm in the running rail beyond the frog at a position where rolling stock wouldn't normaly stop without being too close and fouling the adjacent line leading to the same point. It saves having to lift an already located point or trying to solder close to the frog with the risk of melting and distorting the plastic sleepers supporting the frog.
Charlie, I have had the same issue of 'migrating' point rails on the Electrfrog's, also! What I do is glue a thin strip of styrene to the tie, or sleeper in the UK, behind the throwbar. I don't recall the thickness right off hand, but it's thin enough to allow free movement of the throwbar, but thick enough to stop the point rails from coming out of place. I just use ordinary plastic model cement to secure it.
Charlie another great video; don’t think I can handle the soldering iron that steady for those minor joins.. looking forward to seeing the track all down and await testing. Thankyou again for a Friday coffee video; always informative and enjoyable to watch and listen to. All best Marc from Leighton Buzzard
Another great video which got me thinking - why am I making things so complicated around points and slips? Then I realised, I'm operating DC... where isolation is required for more reasons than only to avoid shorts! 😀
I tend to bond the frog wire as near to the end of the frog rails as possible. This minimises the chance of melting the plastic around the frog itself (which I have done in the past). I also bond across both frog rails to introduce redundancy if one bond was to fail. I am speaking only for Peco 009 EF points. Anyway great video as always.
Certainly learned a lot more about soldering in these last videos!! Always make a dogs dinner of my stuff, so your tips have been crucial to avoiding many more mistakes. Not into all this elctrofrog malarky, but it's been fascinating to watch all the same. Keep well. Regards Kevin
Great video. Love your tools, especially the one that sucks up solder. I've never heard of one before. One reason this old 70 year old Yankee bloke watches this channel is for learning. Learning never stops! I also like the spacing guide for spacing parallel tracks and tinplate for drilling holes for your double crossovers. Bill & Janet from California
Charlie, another great video on the difference/similarities of the Slips, and how they relate to points. Great stuff. I realise that Bryan's method gives some belts nad braces to the points, but I don't think my fingers, eyes, and soldering skills would be up to it. I think you would need a finer tip on your soldering iron. When soldering, if the joint is nice and shiny, then it should be good to go, if it is dull, and looks like it has bubbled, it will give yopu grief, as it will be brittle and break away with time. Thank you for sharing, and stay safe, have a great Easter, and I am looking forward to the next video. Michael
Charlie please can you clarify something for me. I’ve just watched your latest video (enjoyed it a lot) where you indicate putting IRJ’s on the two rails coming from the frog at each end, yet in the video where you describe the differences between double and single slips, IRJ’s need to be fitted all round each rail. Am I missing something?
Sorry Louisa, they are not required on Code 100 insulfrog slips. However, in the next video I will cover where and when they are fitted. Block Detection makes this a little more complicated but I will explain in detail. Regards Charlie.
Hi Charlie, and Happy Easter!! Ive been using a B&Q sourced Plumbing (for copper pipes) flux, which i will probably regret, will have to look out for the better DCC flux in other comments. My choice of desoldering device is the Copper Wick tape which can get into awkward corners, the suction pen after just being totally frustrating was rejected and I went back to the wick tape. Brian's jumper wire idea, is fiddly !! and genius.
Yes I also find the wick tape a great way to clean up. I use DCC Concepts tape and their Sapphire flux, it doesn’t need much cleaning after, just a wipe.
Hi again Charlie Always interesting. Your soldering is a joy to watch. That double slip electro frog was just so well explained . I use code 100 so I use insulfrog slips but electro frog had me baffled. Not now!. You should get a job writing instructions for peco.! Thanks again. Look forward to every second (sometimes every) Thursday. Enjoy Easter. Stay safe. Howard.
I may be missing something, Charlie, but why was it necessary to 'aggressively' cut away the plastic under the frog on the medium radius Electrofrog point (at c.23:25), when you could have attached the new frog wire at any position along either of the rails that meet to form the frog and you would only have needed to cut away a small piece of webbing? Also, would it not have been possible to use a much thinner wire (as thin as the factory-fitted wires) to connect the switch rail and the stock rail, so that it could easily be hidden without having to be fed under the baseboard and it would be more flexible? It seems to me that 7/02 is a bit of overkill, not to mention the 'cable' that your friend used!
Two excellent points, Stephen. You are of course right, regarding the attaching of a replacement frog wire. I must confess it didn’t even occur to me. Regarding the link between the two rails, I recall McKinley using 7x02 so I simply followed their example. Regards, Charlie.
Charlie, having seen the closeness of the point motors to each other and the fiddlyness of access to the adjustments, what are your thoughts about moving the motors to either side of the trackwork and actuating the tie-bars through some sort of 'wire in tube method?'
Nice one Charlie, we can all learn for going back to basics. Not sure I would want to take on Brians theory with N but the logic makes absolute sense. Ime with you on fragile frog wires, I do the same almost every time now.
@@ChadwickModelRailway yes, the pointed type you'd often use for electronics work, 40w iron, the thing about n gauge track is it's smaller and doesn't require as much heat so you can get in and out quickly.
Hello Charlie. As always, you provide a very instructive and entertaining video. I fear that the wireing and installation of the double slips will make what little hair I have left go from grey to white!!! Thank you for sharing your expertise. Greetings from Sweden 🇸🇪.
hi charlie. the dreaded frog wire lead!! yes a very common and annoying occurrence of it snapping off. im rather surprised that peco remained using such flimsy wire. i always wished for them to change it to a flat type of thin bus bar strip. one might say because of extra costs. well points are not cheap by any means so for a reasonable extra cost i personally would welcome this sort of modification.
GREAT VIDEO Charlie, Grreat video and very informative, as usual from you Charlie. Well done and many thanks. I cannot help but think that we do perhaps make far too much of points and pointwork, (er..not you), and all because we are fixated with short-wheelbase locos coming to a grinding halt when passing over points. Is this really the problem that far too many of us think that it is....? Surely even the smallest locos these days have their pick-ups wired to stretch over any short length of insulated track...? With pick-ups extended to more than one axle.........something that is fairly easy to do, if they are too short, I would have thought that this presents an easier solution than fiddling about with snipping this and soldering that on a set of points...? Question: Why does the dropper link that you have soldered, (orange wire), need to drop below the board at all..? Surely this is a case of just needing a small, (fixed & flat), link that fits between the sleepers...? Couldn't this be done with a metal fishplate.........or even a tiny piece of sticky conductive tape.......with an additional blob of adhesive for extra security? Even a piece of wire held with Duct Tape would suffice.... Once in place this is hardly likely to come loose. After all, the gap to bridge is only about 1/8th to 3/16ths of an inch.... Just a sayin'.... James Hennighan Yorkshire, England P.S. Glad to see your continuing use of solder with lead in it. That will have the 'Elf & Safety' type clutching their pearls.... Thanks also for all the useful links. Most commendable..
Thanks James, the reason for the loop going below the baseboard into a hole is to allow the cable to flex. If it were flat on the blade baseboard it could snag and pull apart. Regards, Charlie.
Great video as usual, something that you might be interested in is my method of bonding the points. At the moment I’m building a new storage yard so an ideal opportunity to show the method I use. I do have a concern with Brian’s method as those short wires may inhibit the blades moving freely. If your interested let me know, as I don’t have Facebook I will get the wife to use her account to message you directly.
I’ve actually installed quite a few points now using this method. I find that a loop of about an inch long doesn’t inhibit movement at all. Having said that, I use stall motor type point motors. I’ve not tried the mod with solenoids, though I doubt it would be a problem.
Another cracking video, thank you. I'm curious though, Charlie. Did I miss something? Wondering why you are using the code 100 insulfrog with it's potential wheel contact issue when you appear to have the space to use the Streamline code 75 electrofrog with the short converters to code 100 at the 4 ends? I guess because you're not using short wheelbase locos and/or older stock with deep wheel flanges? I'd like to use a code 75 insulfrog on my upcoming layout to overcome the former but would be left with the latter, deep wheel flange, issue and the space available won't allow for the converter pieces. Thank you. Martin.
@@ChadwickModelRailway not on ponts. But on other things. They use braids to ground car engine blocks to bodies sometimes. As they are flexible. When I build my layout I will give it a go.
Just one note on the subscribe function to TH-cam. You should mention that people should change the “bell” from “personalized” to “all”. When I have “all” selected I see every notification. When it’s on “personalized” the notifications don’t always show and so they get lost in the rest of my feed. I assume the personalized thing is the algorithm seeing how active the viewer is with the respective channel… so if you don’t watch the videos it will make the notifications even less prominent. Anyway, just a thought.
Wiring the switch rails like that requires more holes to run those wires down and back. I'm sure proper ballasting and scenery will mostly hide them, but I wonder what it would look like and whether it's worth it. Just wondering, not judging. Great video as always!
I’ve wired several points now in this way. Before I lay them in, I get a piece of black tape (I use Gorrilla tape, but any black tape will do) and cut two small slits in it. I then stick the tape under the sleepers so that the wiring loops pass through the slits. This piece of tape not only prevents ballast going down the holes drilled for the vertical wire loops but hides the actual wires. Once ballasted in, you can’t see any trace of them. Hope this helps 😀
I think I would use a 1/4 inch length of stranded wire - #22 or smaller and just solder across the two rails. You can always trim the extra length after you solder.. saves you from having to deal with the extra holes. Cheers
Don’t just solder it across the rails, as they need to move. By doing the vertical wiring, it doesn’t cause any restriction to movement and I find that about an inch long loop to also not be susceptible to any forces at the point of the solder joins. This is important to prevent metal fatigue where the wire is soldered to the rail which would otherwise cause it to eventually break.
Another very good video Charlie. TBH you are a braver man than me ie I have installed around 8x of those Peco 75 double slips (when they were £33 each and that was bad enough!). IMHO the frog wires are OK, care needs to be taken eg reduce the length down to around 50mm but I wouldnt be going in there replacing them completely. And once they are fitted, they are safe. Suffice to say I wouldn't be going anywhere near that additional mod to the switchblades, hacking into a very beautifully made set of £40 doubleslips would give me nightmares. I do like those low profile point motors and the drive mechanism but would be nicer if the screws were flat bottomed dome heads as countersunk dont sit well in my eyes - literally :-) I used DCC Concept motors when I did all mine at the time but they are very deep. That 3D print template looks very handy as well. Cheers
Thank you for the video Charlie! I’m normally an N scale modeler, but I’m going to be taking a venture into HO, in America of course. My layout is going to be pretty simple, just about a 10 foot long shelf for switching, but you you considered or tried to make any of your own turnouts? What you’ve got seems to work well, and I use Peco for N scale, but it’s nice that the hand made turnouts have a solid point rail so this is unnecessary for them. PC ties (sleepers) are also used, so that transfers power from the stock rail to the point rail without extra wires. It’s definitely a lot of soldering though. I’m also excited to get the track down in this area…what am I talking about, I’m not doing it, you are. I’m excited for you to get the track put down on this board.
You clearly have more patience than me Andrew. I have considered trying my hand at it but the tempo of building Chadwick, is too intense. Good luck with your project, Regards Charlie
15 minutes into your video, you show that the rails can be pulled apart, what I do is mount the Tortoise point motor in such a way that it uses the spring steel of the Tortoise wire to push and keep those together to ensure good connection, I rely on the Tortoise contacts to feed the frog, to supply the power as well as the contact of the switch rail.
Lol ! But in all seriousness, if you use a good quality soldering iron with a small bit and flux when you solder, you’ll find that you can reduce the temperature that you’re soldering at as well as the amount of time that the soldering iron is applied to the joint. Overall, reducing the risk of melting sleepers (too much !).
Thank you for an informative video. Would it be possible to get a review of Tillig turnouts? Why I am asking is because I feel that they are more attractive in appearance and a bit more cleverly built.
Patience is a virtue. I just liad a new outer loop on my layout. Ran my duchess class on it, it derailed on the bend and fell off the layout, straight down the loft trap. Backboard now fitted. Oops😅
@@ChadwickModelRailway The body got smashed but the mechanism survived unscathed. Thankfully Ebay was nice enough to have a factory weathered duchess class body going for peanuts so will be as good aa new next week.
@@ChadwickModelRailway I did exactly the opposite of what you do. I laid about 100m of track first because I wanted to see the trains running. Thankfully its not secured to the baseboard yet. I find your expertise invaluable. I'm not up to your level or even close, but I've managed to fit a DCC bus that doesnt look like a birds nest and even done some improvisations based on what you've done😊
Thanks Charlie, very well described and a great asset to those like me whose knowledge of the dark side of wiring is a nightmare . One question. The solder sucker why do you need to separate the solder on the two rails ? Brian is a genius . Happy Easter .
Hi Charlie, am I missing something. Bryan's method atchieves the same as soldering the none moving part of the switch rail without the need to drill extra holes for the loop wires. When deciding where to locate MTB point motors I find making sure you have clear access to the adjusting screws is more important than the electric wiring connections. The drill jigs do not appear to be available for NGauge so will try to make my own out of wood. Thanks for another good video...Brian
Also Brian, the moving rail (the switch rail) has an electrical connection using two tiny metal tabs to the non moving part. Over time, dirt and verdigris (a sort of oxidisation) forms in this connection. It’s impossible to clean without taking the set of points apart and will isolate the rail. The bonding method that I use (so very well explained and demonstrated by Charlie) creates a permanent and reliable means of keeping these switch rails permanently energised.
I'm the major North American dealer of MTB point motors and I offer a mounting adapter that can be used as a drilling template, www.modelrailroadcontrolsystems.com/mp10-mount-for-new-installs/ but shipping would make that uneconomical in the UK, however MP10s use the same footprint as the Tortoise by Circuitron (tm) so you might use the drilling template for the tortoise at www.circuitron.com/index_files/INS/800-6000ins.pdf I think he also offers a plastic drilling template which is scale independent.
Hi Charlie with this board being removeable would you permanently affix your buildings/scenery etc to it as well. I have a similar removable section and are now ready to add scenery to it but not sure which approach to take. Cheers Rob
I still find it puzzling that the biggest selling enthusiast market DS points at about 60 notes still need surgery before they can be used reliably. There is a definite need to replace the frog wires as it is difficult to do once fitted to the baseboard, and the jointed switch rails definitely need their own feeds. Then the springs need to be removed for any powered point so there is quite a bit of work to do with any of the options. The modern point motors certainly help matters and with the wiring upgrades will give years of trouble free use. Do not let anyone tell you Fulgurex motors are a good idea.
Hey Charlie, looking to upgrade my smallish layout to a larger layout (new house and bigger loft) and looking to make the jump to DCC, what’s your system of choice and do you have a video(s) on the subject? I find your videos far more informative than others.
I have some Jouef double slips. They are one electrical circuit. So the whole double slip is one circuit. I am not sure how to wire them up. The only way I can think of is to isolate the whole thing and add separate droppers to power it up with it's own power supple. Have any better way to use them.
Hi Charlie, a quick question on why you've adjusted these to 6mm throw. I note that in the MP1/MP5 video you said OO points have a 3mm throw. th-cam.com/video/KjG9Mzz3000/w-d-xo.html I've used 3mm on the MP1s I bought and it works fine.
With insulfrog turnouts can you achieve the same result by using point clips? DCC layout using iTrain. If yes, is it necessary to fit insulated rail joiners on both sides and all ends of the turnout?
HI Charlie. Can I recommend you buy a pair or 2 (they are cheap) of Plato 170 wire snips. They have very thin blades probably good for cutting away the plastic parts of points as well as wires. Give them a go and see what you think. Edit, Most you will see for sale are Eastern knock-offs for about £3. They are ok but genuine are only £10. Cheers.
Hello Charlie, I am not so happy with "let your locomotive go over the point and if you have a short circuit, then change the wires😂" . Wouldn't it make sence to use a voltage tester between point and track? If there is a voltage the wiring is wrong, if there is no voltage the wiring is right...or am I wrong?
No ..please show how its all wired up however mundane... point electrification confuses the hell out of me especially as I want them connected to a panel board complete with LED indicators!! Cheers Charlie .. have a good un.
Hi Charlie great video as always quick question! I run a DC layout and have 2 double slip points but find that both tracks are live at the same time on them in-effect two locos run on both lines! I have Peco point motors do you know what might be causing this issue ? Thanks any advice most welcome regards Barry.
It’s because every line on the double slip is live at the same time. You would need to put an isolator after the double slip on both tracks. Regards, Charlie.
Hi Charlie. I know my question is nothing to do with this video. [ By the way great video] I'm new to model railway. I been looking into DCC. and came across Hornby Bluetooth dcc control [HM7000]. I was just wondering your and maybe your subscribers thoughts on it?
You don’t need to scratch up the surface to get the solder to bond. Solder doesn’t work like that. All you need to is make sure it is clean and you are actually soldering to metal and not paint or varnish. The flux in the solder will do the rest of the work for you. Heat the job then add solder. If solder doesn’t flow it’s either not hot enough or not clean enough.
Hi Charlie, you made a good job of that mod to bond the stock rails and switch rails. As you’ll be aware, the Peco switch rails are hollow from underneath. I find it easier to solder the end of the wire into this hollow. I use DCC Concepts Sapphire No-Clean Flux to help, which I first tried about three years ago. Like you I use lead/tin solder with flux in it, I’ve used it for years and have tried modern lead fee types but none measure up to good old fashioned lead/tin ! But even so, I’ve found that brushing a tiny amount of the Sapphire flux on to rails before the solder works wonders. It means I can use less heat and hold the iron against the rails for a shorter time. I’ll send you some, if you don’t get on with it, don’t worry, I won’t be offended !
Otherwise, that was quite a marathon video this time, packed with useful tips. I really love those template things to help with getting the holes drilled in the right place for the point motors. I think I need to invest in some !
Take care mate, Happy Easter to you and Margaret.
Hi Bryan,
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it. Your example and technique was crucial. I’ll order some flux next week, before I tackle the other points.
Have a great Easter, regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway I’ve ordered some flux for you Charlie, it’ll be on its way when DCC Concepts open again on Tuesday ! Good luck, I’ve never looked back since I started using it.
Thanks Bryan , you’re a star, very much appreciated. Have a great Easter, regards Charlie.
yep,, flux is your friend when soldering. . . .the sizzle says it's done...
Agree, flux is the answer, no need to “scrape”. Not too sure about the ongoing ad for DCC Concepts products though - plenty of flux gels in syringes on sale that work great, probably a lot cheaper than the advertised brand too.
One soldering tip I would always recommend is to have a cheap usb desk fan gently running to one side. Now when you apply the solder to the iron, the smoke produced (which I believe is the built in flux burning, but for all I know may contain other horrible components) will be blown away and not breathed in.
You’re right Ian, I shall order one.
Regards Charlie
The smoke is resin or rosin vapour and yes it is harmful if inhaled. But not disastrous if only used occasionally. Workers in electronics often use air extraction systems to pull the smoke away from themselves. Over many years I learned to synchronise my breathing so I exhale when applying the solder, both to avoid inhaling the smoke and to do the job of the USB fan myself 😆
@@ChadwickModelRailwayCharlie you don’t need to scratch the surface for soldering unless it’s oxidised. Unlike adhesives which benefit from mechanical keying, soldering is a chemical process which forms an alloy with the base metal when done properly. That’s one reason not to try to “glue” metal together with solder (by putting solder on the iron then wiping it on the joint), but make a fully formed soldered joint.
When I had my model railway many years ago the electric points were combined with the motors so were very easy to install.
Nowdays it seems you have to have the points separate from the motors connected by a rod and it looks very fiddly.
Can you still get points with built in motors?
@@garywoodall325 not that I know of Gary. Regards, Charlie.
Another great demonstration. I love the awesome comment "fake your own death" rather than watch the process of wiring the blocks. Thank you for taking the time to show us the whole setup.
Thanks Bob, I’m so pleased that you found the video interesting. Regards, Charlie.
Hi Charlie I used electrofrog points and had to remove the springs as you do for smooth slow IP Digital switch motors rather than solenoids . (same would apply to slips) The problem her is that the switching rail can pull out from where it is hinged (as you showed). Your Friend Brian solders a link from the outside rail to the switch rail as you have done, this does not stop the switch rail pulling out. I used some very thin wire and soldered a link ACROSS the hinge of the switch rail which gives it continuity and stops the hinge rail from pulling out. Because there is plenty of leverage at this point it does not hinder the free movemnet of it pivoting. Regards
You raise an excellent point. I place a thin strip of plasti card in front of the switch. This limits, if not removes the possibility of the rails creeping apart.
Regards Charlie.
Thank you, Now I know how . Mal from Melbourne.
Thanks Mal, much appreciated.
Regards Charlie.
Thank you Charlie, a great video. I always thought something was missing from all the other point motor videos that “powered” their droppers from the point motor. 😂 When in fact they were just taking power from the track.
I like your double wire method but I make the join at the point motor terminal instead so just one set running through the hole in the baseboard to the track.
Thanks again, happy Easter.
David
Thanks, David, we have the same snag with just a slightly different solution. Regards, Charlie.
Hi Charlie, in Peco points, there is a groove under the sleepers near the frog. The frog wire is in this when it comes out of the packet.
Why not just leave the wire coming out of the sleeper end, solder on your green wire, and drill the hole to the side of the point, not directly underneath it.
I've done this with mine. Works fine.
No hacking away at sleepers, soldering to the frog, taking best guess at where to drill the hole. Plus, there is less chance of pulling off the Peco wire.
Please don't think I'm trying to teach you how to suck Eggs.
We all have our own way of doing things.
I do take your point regarding leaving the wire in the groove. However, I still view it as being vulnerable. I imagine it’s just a case of horses for courses really. Regards, Charlie.
Happy Easter Charlie thank you for all the helpful hints and tips.
You’re most welcome, MRS.
Regards, Charlie.
Thanks Charlie for another really informative video. I don't think I will wire up the switch blades on my points, it seems a little bit too much work. For those that are interested it's the York Model Railway Show this Easter weekend at the Racecourse. I look forward to the next video.
Thanks Simon, I do wish I could get to the York railway show. York remains one of my favourite destinations. Regards Charlie.
Excellent as always Charlie, loved it 👍
Thanks Alan, that’s most kind.
Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie, great video and is a good add on to the ‘many’ frogs demonstration. Also well done in getting acknowledged in the nmra Turntable magazine, very international!
Thanks Chris, but I’ve no idea about the Magazine article.
Can you send me a link etc?
Regards, Charlie.
Great stuff Charlie, a soldering masterclass in some fiddly areas. Just shows amount of work needed for just one point! Happy Easter to you and your family. Time for some chocolate!
Thanks Allan, I’m so pleased that you found it interesting. Right, back to the chocolate. Regards Charlie.
Thank you for another instructive video. Shall not dare embark on the “bonding” wiring - if you can’t do it, no chance I can!!! Even so, it is a most interesting idea. I’ll have “a go” at wiring a double slip, though! Happy Easter.
Thanks Alex, I’m so pleased that you found the video interesting. Regards, Charlie.
Thanks Charlie and I will refer back to the videos you summarised when I get to this stage again with my new code 75 layout. Your explanations are always top notch and probably do mom for the hobby than you realise. Happy Easter 👏👍
That’s very kind of you to say so Andy. Regards, Charlie.
Thanks Charlie I was one of those who has had his subscription terminated and now I’ve subscribed to all your videos so hopefully I won’t miss out anymore 1:10
Thanks John, it’s great to have you back on board. Regards, Charlie.
Another great video Charlie.
Only one suggestion this time. Instead of looping the switch rail to the stock rail, why not use 7/.2 or 10/.1 soldered to the switch rail, leave some slack for movement, and take them to your buss feeds? That way you only have to get the soldering iron to the switch rails. Less risk of melting the sleepers. David…
That’s an interesting alternative David.
Regards Charlie
Thanks for your reply Charlie, always appreciated.
Had another thought, connect the dropper wires from the switch rails in with the feeds at the frog switch. That’ll keep them nice and short…dB@@ChadwickModelRailway
Nice one Charlie. All my points and signals on my O gauge layout are under PLC control with an HMI interface. I have my own track detection and use Lenze DCC control. Being a control systems engineer things that you describe in the video are straightforward but none the less it's always good to do these informative videos. Keep going and thanks for the video.
Thanks Paul , that’s very kind of you to say so. Regards, Charlie.
Hi Charlie, another good one, thanks. I have inserted a small piece of plastic between the guide arm for the point switch and the sleeper behind it. This stops the switch rails from moving backwards. It one needs something about 1-1.5 mm to work very efficiently. Easier than soldering and can be retrofitted for poorly aligned switch rails. Worth a try? Steve.
I do the same and will mention it in next week’s video. Regards Charlie
I think this was covered further down the comments section, but just to reiterate in case of any confusion; the soldering and clearance of the plastic at the frog location looked a bit awkward, so I thought it through and came to the idea that the frog is one solid item and the wire could be soldered anywhere right up to the locations where the insulating fishplates are to fit, where there is much more room for clearance of your knife and soldering iron. Hope this helps, Paul in Cornwall.
You are of course, right, Paul. And many thanks for mentioning it. Regards, Charlie.
Hi Charlie, Probably already been said but so many comments to go through now!! An easier way to wire the toe rails is a thin wire soldered on the back of the rail bridging the gap. (no solder at the join/hinge to give the flex and movement needed.) only need a few strands soldered to maintain flexibility but give good power conductivity.
An interesting alternative, Jamie, many thanks. Regards, Charlie.
Thanks Charlie..another great informative video.
You’re most welcome, Graham. Regards, Charlie.
Perfect timing, Charlie! A day early and four-and six ready! I have four Peco bullhead double slips to install this weekend, and this has made a difference. It usually seems to work out that within a week after doing some complex task your newest video covers just that, but a bit late for me.
Unfortunately, for those of us across the pond, Scenic 3D won't ship outside of the UK, so far, so the new challenge is making one's own template. Just one more step in the process.
I’m so pleased that you found the video useful Jack. Regards, Charlie.
Hi Charlie thankyou for the tips and video and it great to meet you at Bath University photo shoot
Thanks Mark, I do meet people in the strangest of places. Regards, Charlie.
Hi Charlie, Very well explained process. I like Brian's idea.
No surprise to see those prefitted wires being weak.
Be great to see this goods yard operational your getting very close now!!
Have a great Easter!!
Thanks, David, the end is nearly in sight. Regards, Charlie.
Fascinating stuff, Charlie…….watching you run through your thought processes on track fitting (particularly these complicated Points) is utterly invaluable to my own deliberations on tack-planning. My own layout progress is now at the stage where I need to start making some vital decisions on what points to use, and where to put them. These last few videos are ‘essential viewing’ for me….thank you so much 🙏 and Happy Easter
Thanks Adrian, that’s very kind of you to say so. Regards, Charlie.
Great video Charlie. A lot of information on wiring the double slips. Loved reading all the comments too. Thanks for sharing. Roy.
Thanks Roy, I’m so pleased that you found the video interesting. Regards, Charlie.
Hi Charlie, great video. Happy Easter to all. Mike HO fro Australia
Many thanks, Mike, and the same to youand yours. Regards, Charlie.
Excellent Charlie. Ever tried using telephone wire for frogs? Slightly heavier gauge than frog wire and is solid copper. Should take 25v DC. I’ve used it on some points as an experiment with a CDU with no problems. My son in laws late father, wired his whole layout with it. 👀 Never had a glitch with the wiring
I must confess Redbank, it’s surprising what you can get away with. Regards, Charlie.
Hi Charlie, love the videos and demonstrations you provide. It shows, like most of us, there is a real passion for the hobby. My question to you would be ‘as life gets ever expensive, are we doomed to be priced out of the hobby with it being too expensive? In particular the new models are becoming very detailed with lots of gimmicks like sounds, etc. It doesn’t seem like pocket money stuff, like from our childhood anymore. Thanks
I do agree Steven to a certain extent.
Track and wagons are still reasonably priced but the high tech end of DCC, can be dreadfully expensive.
The second hand market is alive and well.
Regards Charlie
Excellent video Charlie
Thanks Mels, much appreciated.
Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie another excellent video. I, however, have an N Gauge layout, I don’t think it would be easy to solder the wires across the blades, but I can appreciate why it is done.
Keep up the great work
Regards
Keith
Thanks Keith, I agree, it’s always difficult with your Scale. Regards, Charlie.
Hello Charlie. I'm modelling O-16.5, and the points (L.H., R.H., and 'Y'), do not have a frog wire that can be easily attached to like some of the points in the rest of the Peco range.. They are electrofrog, and a very helpful gent in the U.K. sent me a diagram detailing the necessary locations to attach the feeds, the rail links, and the necessary location to cut the switch rails to isolate the frog. I read about a On30 modeller in the U.S. who purchased a small hobby spot welder to duplicate the way that Peco attaches the fine wire to their manufactured points. The heat generated by spot welding is very localized, is instant, and tends not to melt the plastic in any way. I believe that spot welders for hobby use range in price by quite a bit, but if a person wanted to take up a part time job of making battery packs, perhaps one could come in handy? I find that soldering these O-16.5 points is quite finicky, as there is not much room, and the point can become a melted mess if not very careful. Not sure what the answer is, but maybe Unifrog production in the future may include the O-16.5 range. Until then I will sold(i)er on.... EW
Many thanks EW, for looking into your world. My solder difficulties disappear into insignificance compared to yours. Regards, Charlie.
The nice thing about the new unifrog points is that the switch rail is all one piece, and therefore will not need the 'Bryan' amendment.
Indeed, Dell boy. Sadly, it will take them years to upgrade their range. Regards, Charlie.
Charlie, it does make me wonder why it should take so long? Surely Peco have the volume and market share to make this happen promptly or do we accept track is not a topic for advances and disruption seen in other areas of our hobby?
Very well presented; suitable for beginners and more experienced modellers. I love the way you talk through the process as you are filming it, makes things easier to follow.
How do you empty the solder sucker? As surely the solder will solidify.
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it, Timothy. The solders sucker simply un screws and you give it a shake. Regards, Charlie.
I've had the flimsy frog wire break in situ. As both rails leading from the frog are a common connection, I use an insulated fishplate on one rail as normal, and a metal fishplate with a wire soldered to it on the other rail to energise the frog. I cut an insulated gap and insert a plastic fishplate about 50mm in the running rail beyond the frog at a position where rolling stock wouldn't normaly stop without being too close and fouling the adjacent line leading to the same point. It saves having to lift an already located point or trying to solder close to the frog with the risk of melting and distorting the plastic sleepers supporting the frog.
Thanks, Neil, for an interesting alternative. Regards, Charlie.
Hi Charlie as ever a brilliant video you make it look so easy which helps the novice no end.
Happy Easter
Thanks mate, it’s very kind of you to say so. Regards, Charlie.
Happy Easter Charles.
Thanks, RT, the same to you and yours. Regards, Charlie.
Charlie, I have had the same issue of 'migrating' point rails on the Electrfrog's, also! What I do is glue a thin strip of styrene to the tie, or sleeper in the UK, behind the throwbar. I don't recall the thickness right off hand, but it's thin enough to allow free movement of the throwbar, but thick enough to stop the point rails from coming out of place. I just use ordinary plastic model cement to secure it.
Yes I also do this. I find that a slither cut from an old credit card is the perfect thickness.
I also do this packing method. I’ll mention it in a future video. Regards, Charles.
Happy Easter Charlie and thankyou for the most helpful model railway channel on TH-cam.
Wow, that’s very kind of you to say so. Regards, Charlie.
Charlie another great video; don’t think I can handle the soldering iron that steady for those minor joins.. looking forward to seeing the track all down and await testing. Thankyou again for a Friday coffee video; always informative and enjoyable to watch and listen to. All best Marc from Leighton Buzzard
Thanks Marc, I’m so pleased that you found the video interesting. Regards Charlie.
Thank you Charlie for another excellent "how to" video. I have all this ahead of me, when I finally get to retire.
You could always start early, go on. Regards, Charlie.
HAPPER EASTER CHARLIE, another great video
Thanks Graeme, go easy on the chocolate! Regards Charlie
I’ve been using frog juicers. Not because I can’t work out switches (electrical), but juicers are so easy.
A friend of mine uses them as well and thoroughly recommend them. Regards, Charlie.
another masterclass charlie
Thanks HR, that’s most kind. Regards, Charlie.
Very informative, happy Easter.
Thanks Four Oaks, let’s not eat too much chocolate. Regards, Charlie.
Another great video which got me thinking - why am I making things so complicated around points and slips? Then I realised, I'm operating DC... where
isolation is required for more reasons than only to avoid shorts! 😀
Rest assured, I do feel your pain. Regards, Charlie.
I tend to bond the frog wire as near to the end of the frog rails as possible. This minimises the chance of melting the plastic around the frog itself (which I have done in the past). I also bond across both frog rails to introduce redundancy if one bond was to fail. I am speaking only for Peco 009 EF points. Anyway great video as always.
Many thanks Viking, for explaining your method. Regards, Charlie.
Excellent work Charlie, plenty to consider there, happy Easter.
Thanks, hot dog, and the same to you and yours. Regards, Charlie.
Certainly learned a lot more about soldering in these last videos!! Always make a dogs dinner of my stuff, so your tips have been crucial to avoiding many more mistakes. Not into all this elctrofrog malarky, but it's been fascinating to watch all the same. Keep well. Regards Kevin
Thanks Kevin, it might not be your cup of tea, but I’m glad that you enjoyed it anyway. Stay safe, regards Charlie.
Brilliant explanation Charlie. I am a great supporter of the MTB motors.
You and me both Gordon. Regards, Charlie.
Very useful to learn how to go about increasing reliability when wiring points - thanks Charlie & Brian
Great video. Love your tools, especially the one that sucks up solder. I've never heard of one before. One reason this old 70 year old Yankee bloke watches this channel is for learning. Learning never stops! I also like the spacing guide for spacing parallel tracks and tinplate for drilling holes for your double crossovers. Bill & Janet from California
Thanks Bill and Janet, I’m so pleased that you both find the channel interesting. Regards Charlie.
Nice one Charlie
Thanks John, that’s very kind of you to say so. Regards, Charlie.
Charlie, another great video on the difference/similarities of the Slips, and how they relate to points. Great stuff.
I realise that Bryan's method gives some belts nad braces to the points, but I don't think my fingers, eyes, and soldering skills would be up to it. I think you would need a finer tip on your soldering iron.
When soldering, if the joint is nice and shiny, then it should be good to go, if it is dull, and looks like it has bubbled, it will give yopu grief, as it will be brittle and break away with time.
Thank you for sharing, and stay safe, have a great Easter, and I am looking forward to the next video. Michael
Thanks Michael, I’m so pleased that you found the video interesting. Have a great Easter, and go easy on the chocolate. Regards Charlie.
Charlie please can you clarify something for me.
I’ve just watched your latest video (enjoyed it a lot) where you indicate putting IRJ’s on the two rails coming from the frog at each end, yet in the video where you describe the differences between double and single slips, IRJ’s need to be fitted all round each rail. Am I missing something?
Sorry Louisa, they are not required on Code 100 insulfrog slips.
However, in the next video I will cover where and when they are fitted.
Block Detection makes this a little more complicated but I will explain in detail.
Regards Charlie.
Hi Charlie, and Happy Easter!!
Ive been using a B&Q sourced Plumbing (for copper pipes) flux, which i will probably regret, will have to look out for the better DCC flux in other comments.
My choice of desoldering device is the Copper Wick tape which can get into awkward corners, the suction pen after just being totally frustrating was rejected and I went back to the wick tape.
Brian's jumper wire idea, is fiddly !! and genius.
Yes I also find the wick tape a great way to clean up. I use DCC Concepts tape and their Sapphire flux, it doesn’t need much cleaning after, just a wipe.
Thanks guy. I have tried the wick tape but that will soon change.
Regards Charlie
@@bryan_lane Thanks for the flux name from DCC guys.
Hi again Charlie
Always interesting.
Your soldering is a joy to watch.
That double slip electro frog was just so well explained .
I use code 100 so I use insulfrog slips but electro frog had me baffled. Not now!.
You should get a job writing instructions for peco.!
Thanks again. Look forward to every second (sometimes every) Thursday. Enjoy Easter. Stay safe.
Howard.
Thanks Howard, much appreciated. Have a great Easter, and go easy on the chocolate! Regards Charlie.
I may be missing something, Charlie, but why was it necessary to 'aggressively' cut away the plastic under the frog on the medium radius Electrofrog point (at c.23:25), when you could have attached the new frog wire at any position along either of the rails that meet to form the frog and you would only have needed to cut away a small piece of webbing? Also, would it not have been possible to use a much thinner wire (as thin as the factory-fitted wires) to connect the switch rail and the stock rail, so that it could easily be hidden without having to be fed under the baseboard and it would be more flexible? It seems to me that 7/02 is a bit of overkill, not to mention the 'cable' that your friend used!
Two excellent points, Stephen.
You are of course right, regarding the attaching of a replacement frog wire. I must confess it didn’t even occur to me.
Regarding the link between the two rails, I recall McKinley using 7x02 so I simply followed their example. Regards, Charlie.
Charlie, having seen the closeness of the point motors to each other and the fiddlyness of access to the adjustments, what are your thoughts about moving the motors to either side of the trackwork and actuating the tie-bars through some sort of 'wire in tube method?'
Rest assured Andrew, I have considered it. Regards Charlie
Nice one Charlie, we can all learn for going back to basics. Not sure I would want to take on Brians theory with N but the logic makes absolute sense. Ime with you on fragile frog wires, I do the same almost every time now.
Thanks Paul, I can only assume that the n gauge frog wires are even more fragile. Regards Charlie.
I’ve used Brian’s method for years in n and 009 definitely needs a steady hand and a fine soldering iron tip but I believe worth the effort.
@@andybmodelrailways do you use a fine pointed tip? Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway yes, the pointed type you'd often use for electronics work, 40w iron, the thing about n gauge track is it's smaller and doesn't require as much heat so you can get in and out quickly.
@@andybmodelrailways Both of those I have, however I never have possessed the necessary level of eyesight which complicates the issue somewhat.😏
Many thanks for another very interesting video Charlie!! I enjoyed very much! Cheers Onno.
Thanks, Onno, that’s most kind. Regards, Charlie.
Hello Charlie. As always, you provide a very instructive and entertaining video. I fear that the wireing and installation of the double slips will make what little hair I have left go from grey to white!!! Thank you for sharing your expertise. Greetings from Sweden 🇸🇪.
Thanks, Anders. I’m so pleased that you found it interesting. Regards, Charlie.
hi charlie. the dreaded frog wire lead!! yes a very common and annoying occurrence of it snapping off. im rather surprised that peco remained using such flimsy wire. i always wished for them to change it to a flat type of thin bus bar strip. one might say because of extra costs. well points are not cheap by any means so for a reasonable extra cost i personally would welcome this sort of modification.
An excellent suggestion, mate. Take care, regards, Charlie.
Always enjoyable!
Thanks KV, regards Charlie.
GREAT VIDEO
Charlie,
Grreat video and very informative, as usual from you Charlie. Well done and many thanks.
I cannot help but think that we do perhaps make far too much of points and pointwork, (er..not you), and all because we are fixated with short-wheelbase locos coming to a grinding halt when passing over points.
Is this really the problem that far too many of us think that it is....?
Surely even the smallest locos these days have their pick-ups wired to stretch over any short length of insulated track...?
With pick-ups extended to more than one axle.........something that is fairly easy to do, if they are too short, I would have thought that this presents an easier solution than fiddling about with snipping this and soldering that on a set of points...?
Question:
Why does the dropper link that you have soldered, (orange wire), need to drop below the board at all..?
Surely this is a case of just needing a small, (fixed & flat), link that fits between the sleepers...?
Couldn't this be done with a metal fishplate.........or even a tiny piece of sticky conductive tape.......with an additional blob of adhesive for extra security?
Even a piece of wire held with Duct Tape would suffice....
Once in place this is hardly likely to come loose.
After all, the gap to bridge is only about 1/8th to 3/16ths of an inch....
Just a sayin'....
James Hennighan
Yorkshire, England
P.S.
Glad to see your continuing use of solder with lead in it.
That will have the 'Elf & Safety' type clutching their pearls....
Thanks also for all the useful links. Most commendable..
Thanks James, the reason for the loop going below the baseboard into a hole is to allow the cable to flex. If it were flat on the blade baseboard it could snag and pull apart. Regards, Charlie.
Great video as usual, something that you might be interested in is my method of bonding the points. At the moment I’m building a new storage yard so an ideal opportunity to show the method I use. I do have a concern with Brian’s method as those short wires may inhibit the blades moving freely. If your interested let me know, as I don’t have Facebook I will get the wife to use her account to message you directly.
I’ve actually installed quite a few points now using this method. I find that a loop of about an inch long doesn’t inhibit movement at all. Having said that, I use stall motor type point motors. I’ve not tried the mod with solenoids, though I doubt it would be a problem.
Thanks LR, you can always email me at Chadwick Model railway@gmail.com.
@@ChadwickModelRailway have sent email
Another cracking video, thank you. I'm curious though, Charlie. Did I miss something? Wondering why you are using the code 100 insulfrog with it's potential wheel contact issue when you appear to have the space to use the Streamline code 75 electrofrog with the short converters to code 100 at the 4 ends? I guess because you're not using short wheelbase locos and/or older stock with deep wheel flanges? I'd like to use a code 75 insulfrog on my upcoming layout to overcome the former but would be left with the latter, deep wheel flange, issue and the space available won't allow for the converter pieces. Thank you. Martin.
It’s a fact that most people use code 100 Martin. Therefore, I tend to use what’s used by most of the subscribers. Regards, Charlie.
How about some braid wire to jump the point legs. Kinda like the pick-ups on scalelectric. Nice video.
I’ve never tried it Steve, have you?
Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway not on ponts. But on other things. They use braids to ground car engine blocks to bodies sometimes. As they are flexible. When I build my layout I will give it a go.
Just one note on the subscribe function to TH-cam. You should mention that people should change the “bell” from “personalized” to “all”. When I have “all” selected I see every notification. When it’s on “personalized” the notifications don’t always show and so they get lost in the rest of my feed. I assume the personalized thing is the algorithm seeing how active the viewer is with the respective channel… so if you don’t watch the videos it will make the notifications even less prominent. Anyway, just a thought.
Thanks, FDDD, I shall check it out. Regards, Charlie.
Awesome Video Charlie
Thanks Christopher, that’s most kind.
Regards, Charles.
Nice once again. Do the Scenic 3D jigs work on Peco Code 75 bullhead - does the packaging say?
Sorry Dak Dak, but looking at the website there is no mention of bullhead track. Regards, Charlie.
Wiring the switch rails like that requires more holes to run those wires down and back. I'm sure proper ballasting and scenery will mostly hide them, but I wonder what it would look like and whether it's worth it. Just wondering, not judging. Great video as always!
I’ve wired several points now in this way. Before I lay them in, I get a piece of black tape (I use Gorrilla tape, but any black tape will do) and cut two small slits in it. I then stick the tape under the sleepers so that the wiring loops pass through the slits. This piece of tape not only prevents ballast going down the holes drilled for the vertical wire loops but hides the actual wires. Once ballasted in, you can’t see any trace of them. Hope this helps 😀
Bryan has made some sound advice here. Regards, Charlie.
I think I would use a 1/4 inch length of stranded wire - #22 or smaller and just solder across the two rails. You can always trim the extra length after you solder.. saves you from having to deal with the extra holes. Cheers
Don’t just solder it across the rails, as they need to move. By doing the vertical wiring, it doesn’t cause any restriction to movement and I find that about an inch long loop to also not be susceptible to any forces at the point of the solder joins. This is important to prevent metal fatigue where the wire is soldered to the rail which would otherwise cause it to eventually break.
Many thanks for sharing your thoughts, gentlemen. I believe we could use a thinner wire in 7x02. Regards, Charlie.
Another very good video Charlie. TBH you are a braver man than me ie I have installed around 8x of those Peco 75 double slips (when they were £33 each and that was bad enough!). IMHO the frog wires are OK, care needs to be taken eg reduce the length down to around 50mm but I wouldnt be going in there replacing them completely. And once they are fitted, they are safe. Suffice to say I wouldn't be going anywhere near that additional mod to the switchblades, hacking into a very beautifully made set of £40 doubleslips would give me nightmares. I do like those low profile point motors and the drive mechanism but would be nicer if the screws were flat bottomed dome heads as countersunk dont sit well in my eyes - literally :-) I used DCC Concept motors when I did all mine at the time but they are very deep. That 3D print template looks very handy as well. Cheers
Thanks Paredding, for providing your view into this interesting modification.
Regards Charlie
As soon as you say, straight forward really, you’ve lost me haha . I’m glad to see you have at last got a lanyard for your glasses 👍
I have spent most of my adult life looking for my glasses! Regards, Charlie
Thanks :D
You’re most welcome, regards, Charlie
Thank you for the video Charlie! I’m normally an N scale modeler, but I’m going to be taking a venture into HO, in America of course. My layout is going to be pretty simple, just about a 10 foot long shelf for switching, but you you considered or tried to make any of your own turnouts? What you’ve got seems to work well, and I use Peco for N scale, but it’s nice that the hand made turnouts have a solid point rail so this is unnecessary for them. PC ties (sleepers) are also used, so that transfers power from the stock rail to the point rail without extra wires. It’s definitely a lot of soldering though.
I’m also excited to get the track down in this area…what am I talking about, I’m not doing it, you are. I’m excited for you to get the track put down on this board.
You clearly have more patience than me Andrew. I have considered trying my hand at it but the tempo of building Chadwick, is too intense.
Good luck with your project,
Regards Charlie
Sorry, another question: what happens before and after this double sleeper to the two poles rails in dcc?
Nothing changes, the polarity stays the same. Regards Charlie
15 minutes into your video, you show that the rails can be pulled apart, what I do is mount the Tortoise point motor in such a way that it uses the spring steel of the Tortoise wire to push and keep those together to ensure good connection, I rely on the Tortoise contacts to feed the frog, to supply the power as well as the contact of the switch rail.
Thanks Sam, it’s always useful to know someone else’s methodology. Regards, Charlie.
Joining the rails makes them more reliable, Mmhmm yes indeed!
Good advice....
I'll get right onto melting my sleepers immediately mate! 😂
Lol ! But in all seriousness, if you use a good quality soldering iron with a small bit and flux when you solder, you’ll find that you can reduce the temperature that you’re soldering at as well as the amount of time that the soldering iron is applied to the joint. Overall, reducing the risk of melting sleepers (too much !).
@@bryan_lane yes mate... I know.. I've done this a few times .. I was being daft is all ,😁😁😁
@@IronHorseRailways 🤣😂🤣
Thanks Craig, keep me on my toes.
Regards Charlie.
Apologies for my typo. The Hornby R8232 fit BEFORE the frogs & not after as stated previously. The Hornby link has a good photo.
Thanks for the clarification, Pat. I shall look into it. Regards, Charlie.
Thank you for an informative video.
Would it be possible to get a review of Tillig turnouts?
Why I am asking is because I feel that they are more attractive in appearance and a bit more cleverly built.
I’m sorry, but I have none. Regards Charlie.
Patience is a virtue. I just liad a new outer loop on my layout. Ran my duchess class on it, it derailed on the bend and fell off the layout, straight down the loft trap. Backboard now fitted. Oops😅
Oh dear Jon, I do hope there’s not too much damage. Regards, Charlie.
@@ChadwickModelRailway The body got smashed but the mechanism survived unscathed. Thankfully Ebay was nice enough to have a factory weathered duchess class body going for peanuts so will be as good aa new next week.
@@ChadwickModelRailway I did exactly the opposite of what you do. I laid about 100m of track first because I wanted to see the trains running. Thankfully its not secured to the baseboard yet. I find your expertise invaluable. I'm not up to your level or even close, but I've managed to fit a DCC bus that doesnt look like a birds nest and even done some improvisations based on what you've done😊
Thanks Charlie, very well described and a great asset to those like me whose knowledge of the dark side of wiring is a nightmare . One question. The solder sucker why do you need to separate the solder on the two rails ? Brian is a genius . Happy Easter .
Hi David, the rails needed joining with the wire to allow them to move freely. If soldered across the rail couldn’t move. Regards, Charlie.
Thanks David, like all ideas, it was born out of frustrated experience of failure !
Hi Charlie, am I missing something. Bryan's method atchieves the same as soldering the none moving part of the switch rail without the need to drill extra holes for the loop wires.
When deciding where to locate MTB point motors I find making sure you have clear access to the adjusting screws is more important than the electric wiring connections.
The drill jigs do not appear to be available for NGauge so will try to make my own out of wood.
Thanks for another good video...Brian
Not quite Brian.
The modification which Bryan used, is bonding a moving part, therefore removing a potential risk of isolation. Regards Charlie.
Also Brian, the moving rail (the switch rail) has an electrical connection using two tiny metal tabs to the non moving part. Over time, dirt and verdigris (a sort of oxidisation) forms in this connection. It’s impossible to clean without taking the set of points apart and will isolate the rail. The bonding method that I use (so very well explained and demonstrated by Charlie) creates a permanent and reliable means of keeping these switch rails permanently energised.
I'm the major North American dealer of MTB point motors and I offer a mounting adapter that can be used as a drilling template, www.modelrailroadcontrolsystems.com/mp10-mount-for-new-installs/ but shipping would make that uneconomical in the UK, however MP10s use the same footprint as the Tortoise by Circuitron (tm) so you might use the drilling template for the tortoise at www.circuitron.com/index_files/INS/800-6000ins.pdf I think he also offers a plastic drilling template which is scale independent.
Hi Charlie with this board being removeable would you permanently affix your buildings/scenery etc to it as well. I have a similar removable section and are now ready to add scenery to it but not sure which approach to take.
Cheers Rob
It’s an interesting dilemma, Rob. Any maintenance to be carried out would need to be done with the board on end. Only time will tell, regards Charlie.
That was really interesting thank you
Glad you enjoyed it Michael. Regards, Charlie.
I still find it puzzling that the biggest selling enthusiast market DS points at about 60 notes still need surgery before they can be used reliably. There is a definite need to replace the frog wires as it is difficult to do once fitted to the baseboard, and the jointed switch rails definitely need their own feeds. Then the springs need to be removed for any powered point so there is quite a bit of work to do with any of the options. The modern point motors certainly help matters and with the wiring upgrades will give years of trouble free use. Do not let anyone tell you Fulgurex motors are a good idea.
Thanks, Burt, for sharing your thoughts. Regards, Charlie.
Hey Charlie, looking to upgrade my smallish layout to a larger layout (new house and bigger loft) and looking to make the jump to DCC, what’s your system of choice and do you have a video(s) on the subject? I find your videos far more informative than others.
Sorry Chris, I don’t have an in-depth knowledge of the systems available. Regards, Charlie.
I have some Jouef double slips. They are one electrical circuit. So the whole double slip is one circuit. I am not sure how to wire them up. The only way I can think of is to isolate the whole thing and add separate droppers to power it up with it's own power supple. Have any better way to use them.
That’s interesting,Gerard. I have never seen one. Regards, Charlie.
Hi Charlie, a quick question on why you've adjusted these to 6mm throw. I note that in the MP1/MP5 video you said OO points have a 3mm throw. th-cam.com/video/KjG9Mzz3000/w-d-xo.html
I've used 3mm on the MP1s I bought and it works fine.
Hi GDG, I thought the 6 mm was more suitable for OO, with the 3 mm being suitable for N Gauge. Regards, Charlie.
With insulfrog turnouts can you achieve the same result by using point clips? DCC layout using iTrain. If yes, is it necessary to fit insulated rail joiners on both sides and all ends of the turnout?
I’ve never used the clips, Peter. However, I suspect you will need insulated rail joiners. Regards, Charlie.
@@ChadwickModelRailway Thanks Charlie
With that double loop do you need to insulate to prevent them touching?
No David, they’re far enough apart I believe. Regards, Charlie.
Thanks Charlie,one question,do you recommend screwing points to baseboard or glue?
Thinking about noise amplification. 👍
I think glueing is best Ian, but this layout design is by no means certain, hence the screws. Regards, Charlie.
Many thanks
Charlie. Can you do a video on why you have runaway trains and no control& cv29 a d how to fix this strang on goings. Thank you.
Hi Jurgen, I believe I have done a video on CV 29. However, I must confess I don’t have runaways. Regards, Charlie.
HI Charlie. Can I recommend you buy a pair or 2 (they are cheap) of Plato 170 wire snips. They have very thin blades probably good for cutting away the plastic parts of points as well as wires. Give them a go and see what you think. Edit, Most you will see for sale are Eastern knock-offs for about £3. They are ok but genuine are only £10. Cheers.
Thanks Sharkey, I’m on the case. Regards, Charlie.
Hello Charlie, I am not so happy with "let your locomotive go over the point and if you have a short circuit, then change the wires😂" . Wouldn't it make sence to use a voltage tester between point and track? If there is a voltage the wiring is wrong, if there is no voltage the wiring is right...or am I wrong?
You’ve not wrong, but to me it’s just not worth the hassle, when the short circuit protection is most adequate. Regards, Charlie.
No ..please show how its all wired up however mundane... point electrification confuses the hell out of me especially as I want them connected to a panel board complete with LED indicators!! Cheers Charlie .. have a good un.
Okay mate, you win. Regards, Charlie.
Hi Charlie great video as always quick question! I run a DC layout and have 2 double slip points but find that both tracks are live at the same time on them in-effect two locos run on both lines! I have Peco point motors do you know what might be causing this issue ? Thanks any advice most welcome regards Barry.
It’s because every line on the double slip is live at the same time. You would need to put an isolator after the double slip on both tracks. Regards, Charlie.
@@ChadwickModelRailway brilliant thanks Charlie
Hi Charlie. I know my question is nothing to do with this video. [ By the way great video] I'm new to model railway. I been looking into DCC. and came across Hornby Bluetooth dcc control [HM7000]. I was just wondering your and maybe your subscribers thoughts on it?
Hi Jonathan, I’m unsure if it’s ability as it’s fairly new. Similarly, the future of Hornby is always somewhat debatable.
Regards Charlie
You don’t need to scratch up the surface to get the solder to bond. Solder doesn’t work like that. All you need to is make sure it is clean and you are actually soldering to metal and not paint or varnish. The flux in the solder will do the rest of the work for you. Heat the job then add solder. If solder doesn’t flow it’s either not hot enough or not clean enough.
I’m actually scratching the varnish from the underside of the flat bottom rail. Regards, Charlie.