Couplings, Curves and derailments at Chadwick Model Railway | 164.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- Train Derailments have many causes but couplings, curves and rolling stock wheels are the main culprits at Chadwick Model Railway. 164
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Hello Charlie, love your latest video. As you know I model in Scalefour which has a track gauge of 18.83 mm, and a flange depth of only .66mm, as I model Southern Region EMU’s in the 60’s the maximum line speed on my layout is a scale 70 mph, which to some modellers might seem a bit slow. As for couplings, because the LNER (and some A4 locomotives), the Southern Railway, and early British Railways coaching stock where coupled together using buckeye couplers, all my coaches are fitted with Kadee couplings, for my goods wagons and NPS I continue to use 3 link or screw couplings.
So why do I think I know why my fellow OO modellers have derailments.
1: First and foremost they run their trains far too fast, most real trains have speed restrictions and don’t travel at 150mph everywhere.
2: OO curved setrack rails are too tight, high speeds plus sharp curves equals a derailment, and it also causes buffer locking. When I started modelling in P4/S4 with .66 mm wheel flanges, I had a lot of derailments, so I relaid my track correctly. I removed any kinks in my track laying, then I built in transition curves and superelevation on to my curved track, allowing higher train speeds and to give my track a more realistic look ( Flexi track is best for transition curves and normally cheaper)
3: And most OO rolling stock is too light, running locomotives at high speed pulling light weight rolling stock causes the rolling stock to bounce off the rails. I was once advised to weight a standard 4 wheel goods wagon to at least 50 to 60 grams.
I hope this reply to your excellent video will help other modellers to solve their derailment problems, as it took me many years to solve mine. PS. Did you manage to find an old Wills track cleaning wagon ?
Best Regards
Barry
IIRC BR had a similar problem with 4-wheel 9' wheelbase wagons bouncing of the rails on CWF track that had been ballasted for high speed running, and that the speeds involved were speeds that the wagons happily ran in sectional track
What an excellent comment Bazza.
I couldn’t agree more. McKinley produced a video on the “weight of freight” and is well worth a watch.
Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie, I’ve just watched the video, seems we are on the same page, 50 grams for a 12 ton ventilated van, and 60 grams for a 16 ton mineral wagon.
Thanks, Charlie, everyone has derailments on the HO layouts.
Exactly right mate, TH-cam videos without derailments should be viewed with scepticism. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie another excellent video....every day is a school day at Chadwick..
We’re never too old to learn Graham. Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway Rodger that and Charlie does a good job.
I would have loved a school like this . Takes me back as I recon it does for everyone but shows the future too.
9:30 gives me a smile. You seem to enjoy keeping the bloopers in. As always an informative and interesting video - thanks Charlie
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it, regardless of me going off piste!
If I ever form a band, it'll be called 'Days of Crimson'. Cheers, Charlie!
Can I go on drums Nigel? Regards Charlie
What genre does the name imply? I’m going for Emo.
🎵 ... Uhh, when the BR zero-eight comes shunting over ... 🎶
Great video again, Charlie. We all know Rule 1 of model railways: Rule 2 is that wagons and coaches will only derail when you are not watching them. :-)
I first came across the kinematic close couplings in the 1970s on Röwa coaches (German HO but 1:100 length). We bought a few from Victors (RIP) and were amazed when we got them home and on the layout to find that they not only coupled corridor connection to corridor connection, but also went round our dodgy trackwork. Röwa went bust, and were bought out by Roco, who continued to make them, though Röwa's designer, Willi Ade, went his own way, and produced fine scale proper 1:87 models of the 26.4m long coaches.
Amazed the Lux cleaner didn't send the dogfish flying. Weight in goods wagons has always been an issue (I guess because it's not as easy to hide a weight under the seats like in passenger coaches) - as I'm sure you're aware, throwing a few nuts in may not work, as the centre of gravity may be too high: you need to get the weight as low as possible.
Willi Ade aka Mr. Clips. 😁 An extremely important man in model railway history that most people will have never heard of.
Rest assured Andrew, I will crack these dogfish wagons! Regards Charlie
Haven't read all the comments so someone may already have mentioned that the bits on the 47 bogie are known as Lifeguards, and, as you rightly summised, are meant to knock any obstruction off the rail before it can cause a derailment. I had to pare them down, (or up) on my Bachmann loco as it was also causing problems by being too low.
Steve
Thanks Steve, very useful info. Regards Charlie
Great and informative. :)
Quote of the video: "Let's run some trains and see what can go wrong." Amen.
So pleased that you enjoyed it Rob. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie - you demonstrate some interesting issues and its nice to see that you don't duck the issue of the dreaded derailments. At present I'm having to re-lay a section of track at the top of my helix since many locos derail on it and it was definitely my fault - I didn't take enough care laying the track originally - aargh!!! The other thing that I noticed is the HST buffet car derailment - I have a similar one on my HST set, all fitted with Hunt couplings and it constantly derails and it has done so since new. It's been fitted with a variety of couplings during its life, the original Hornby ones, Keen system ones and latterly the Hunt Couplings. I've checked the back to back measurements, I've swapped bogies off other Mk 3 coaches but the problem persists although derailments of it are less often than they used to be. I just cannot work out why it happens. Hope that your fix on yours will stand the test of time.Thanks for the video.
Have you tried turning it around? If so, try adding some weight. Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway Thanks for the advice - I'll try doing both things. Cheers Dave
Excellent stuff, bloopers and all. I've now purchased a back to back gauge to help sort my own issues.
Good on you Wayne, I’m sure it will be a useful addition to your toolbox. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie the comment about other youtubers not showing derailments and thus everyone else thinking it doesn't happen in absolutely true. I've been struggling a lot with derailments on my first loft layout and this is so enlightening!
Thanks for your comment mate. Honesty does seem to be an issue on certain channels! Regards, Charlie
David Jenkinson always said that derailments come down to 2 factors - track or rolling stock. He said that if any vehicle derails at specific point in the track then check the track, and if a specific vehicle derails anywhere on the track at random then check the vehicle. He designed and built his own track and sometimes pushed the tolerances of his designers and paid the price. Speed would only make things worse.
Thanks Neil, excellent advice mate. Regards Charlie
Great to see another video from you Charlie - and I feel your pain! I've just put together a train with two Hornby Class 73s top-and-tailing, and for some reason I just can't get it to do a full circuit of the layout without derailing somewhere. Suspect my shoddy trackwork may well be to blame, so there will be engineering works and a rail replacement bus service operating until I can be bothered to sort it out 😂 Your honesty and humility make this channel unique - it's great to see end results, but the hurdles and challenges we face on the way are just as much a part of the hobby. Love it.
What a heartwarming comment mate, you’re too kind. It’s great to have you on-board, regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway Thanks Charlie :) I've figured out the problem with my Class 73s as well - there was a small bit of detail on the bogie frames that was fouling the 3rd rail. Normal service resumed 😂
Hi Charlie Thank you so much for another superb video
Thanks Stephen, I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it mate. Regards Charlie
Nice one, Charlie. It's surprising just how much couplings play in reliable running!
Thanks 1701, I’m so pleased that you found it interesting mate. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie
Love it. Simple? Problem solving. Once again warts and all. So encouraging when you see you have some of my problems. You are so right when I watch some other videos where everything goes right you question your own ability. It's not always my fault ! Back to back really worth checking on all stock I now realize.
Well done once again and thanks. Look forward to next episode.
Howard
Thanks Howard, and so pleased that you enjoyed it, and I’m not alone in the world of derailments! Regards Charlie
Your definitely not alone I also get derailment issues and I've already purchased a back to back and intend to check every piece of stock .. 2 things I've had issues with. Is brand new hornby apt the wheels were all out on brand new models!!! So just because its new doesn't mean its right !
I also had an issue with my bachmann freight container waggons also put hunts on and half the train uncoupled on the helix. The actual hunts pulled apart !!! Maybe too much weight or maybe tweets to helix needed???? I have the same helixes as you but my building skills arnt as good as yours maybe lol
Yes no one said that railway modelling would be fair. It’s such a movable feast, it’s just so difficult getting things right. Regards Charlie
Most informative and very amusing Charlie.
Thanks Robert, it’s great to have you on board mate.
Thank you, that was so much fun to watch. I always come to your videos for a bit of a pick-me-up. Your videos are not just entertaining and informative, but the pure joy of the hobby just flows out of you and on to the screen. We all have frustrations with the hobby at times. Love your consistent ‘built by man, can be fixed by man’ attitude. Thanks again, and keep up the great content.
What a heartwarming comment Barry.
I’m so pleased that you enjoy the channel. Regards Charlie.
Marvellous charlie so true in what you say make the equipment correct and the rails with in tolerance weight is key as well for good adhesion and forced rail following ? Splendid job sir ! Little john from chichester
Thanks John I’m so pleased that you found the video interesting. Regards Charlie
Old Charlie Boy, taking shots at Hornby 😂 brilliant!
"I know Hornby have copied (surely not)"
Drier than an Arab's flip flop in July!
Don’t worry they all get their. comeuppance. Regards Charlie
Thank you so much for another superb video. Funnily enough I’ve just been doing some test running and kept on getting derailments with Hornby coaches. It turned out to be the kinetic couplings that, unlike the Bachmann ones, have rough pieces on the rubbing plates between the coupling and the rear of the headstock. This stopped the coupling returning to ‘normal’ after a curve. (If that makes sense). A little work with an abrasive stick sorted things out but it just goes to show how many variables there are in investigating derailment causes. Just like the real thing then. Looking forward to the building of helix 2. Tony
Thanks Tony, for a very useful comment. I shall look a little more closely at my Hornby Pullman Cars.
Regards Charlie.
Hi Charlie - I find that having point work immediately before of after a curve can cause problems and I now make sure there is at least 2 inches of straight before and after any turnout
That is a sound strategy, but sadly not always practical as I have found on the Helix approach with all those curve points. Regards Charlie
Most curves on model railways are way tighter than those that you find in the 12“ to foot scale. Unfortunately, most modelers in the UK, don’t have the luxury of having a large space to accommodate 48” minimum radius curves on their layout.
As you point out, modelers like their trains to go fast (too fast) around those tight curves and turnout diverging exits, often leading to derailments.
Another reason for derailments is due to a lack of defined wheel and track standards across the industry for OO/HO scale. As you have proven, one of those standards, correct ‘Back to Back’, is crucial to good running, something that a lot of modelers totally disregard.
It is quite a complex subject. It helps if you understand the engineering side of things and want to spend the time to get it right.
I enjoyed the video, Charlie, which I hope everyone found informative and importantly, inspired them to pay closer attention to the construction and maintenance of their layout. Best, Jason.
An interesting and very welcome comment Jason. Regards Charlie
Charlie, thank you, yet another thoughtful, and extremely interesting video about a subject that haunts us all, but we tend to ignore.
I am currently trying to source a Back-to-Back gauge, but appears none are available in Australia at the moment, unless you want an N gauge Back-to-Back, and the freight from the UK is a killer.
Can't wait to see you build the H2 Helix.
Cheers, and stay safe, Michael
I’m sorry to hear about the postal charges Michael. Perhaps an email to DCC Concepts. might prove fruitful. Regards Charlie
Walk into any small metal machining business and ask. They'll turn/mill you one in a matter of minutes if you show them a picture and give them dimensions. Probably done for the cost of an hours labour or less. Your local mens shed equally may have a mill and lathe and volunteer capable of making you one and will do so in exchange for a small donation if you talk to them nicely
Alternatively they can be 3D printed, or even made of a bit of pipe cut to an appropriate length with a slot cut in the wall to allow the axle through. We need not buy all out tools.
Yep, I have problems with breakaways on my (admittedly light) Dapol wagons with Kadee couplings on my gradient sections. Time to check the Kadee alignments on the setup gauge, maybe put a bit of weight in the wagons and hope that I can resolve the issue!
Good luck Alan, there’s no harm in trying. Regards Charlie
Quick addition for the wheeldimensions (as an easy reference), you can find it under NEM310 (loads of results if you google for this).
For OO and HO (16.5mm track) the inner flange distance should be between 14.4 and 14.6
For N (9mm track) the inner flange distance should be 7.4 and 7.6
Thanks Stef, that’s most useful. Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway My pleasure!
@@ChadwickModelRailway Did you remove the link I posted to the source of the info? or does yt still now allow any sort of linking to external websites from the comment section?
No, if it contains a link, I have to approve it manually. I do those in the morning. It stops people posting porn links. Regards, Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway Understandable. no hurry, it was just a link to my source where prettymuch all NEM documents are accessable as PDF
Hey Charlie,
great Video again! I was stunned to find you channel, it is really good and entertaining.
Being an h0 Guy from Germany, I find it extremly interesting how your Layout, your Track and your Points work.
I use the C-Gauge Tracks from Märklin, it's a three conductor Rails with plastic Ballast underneath it. And, being cast pieces of Track, geometrie is always mechanicly perfect! Sadly it is somewhat limited in Track design, as you only get like 6 diffrent grades of curves. but it has its benefits!
Pretty neat to fit Cables and Point motors, and being a three conductor AC Track, you don't get the Issue with the reverse loop. Both pieces of rail are "negative" and power is supplied through the middle conductor.
Keep the great work up, I love seeing your Layout grow! Sadly I don't have a room the spare for my Railway, so it has to be occasionally put up on the floor....
But I'm expanding my Rolling Stock, my Locos and most importantly my track!
A great comment DOJ, it’s great to have you on board mate. Regards Charlie
Good one Charlie, a nice practical vlog without all that bloody wiring haha 😂
Rest assured Martin I’ll be back with some more wire in a few weeks time!
@@ChadwickModelRailway haha 👍
Hi Charlie, It would be good to see how the couplings behave being pushed. I have a couple of push/pull sets one of which has the kinematic couplings but they always derail being pushed over some curved points! Of course change the carriages to standard and they run back and forth with no issues. I have added weights and sorted back to backs on all so would be interested if its carriage design of coupling design. You did not mention murphy's law where it will run around 19 times and on the 20th it will derail!
It’s exactly the same with mine Paul.
The Hunt Couplings and the Bachmann hoses are much more forgiving.
Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway I will try the hunt couplins - I have already tried the Bachmann hoses
@@paulhowes8756 FYI I use the Bachmann hoses on coach rakes but they make it difficult to handle rakes of 4+ coaches. I have used Hunt couplings on the 2nd or 3rd coach to break up the rake & these work fine on R2 curves. Just a note on sizing lengths. Bachmann hoses are 40mm long, Hunt lengths are short 38mm, standard 42mm. Like Charlie I mixed short & standard which give 40mm the same as Bachmann. I don't know if Hunts have since introduced a 40mm long coupling, if not perhaps they should consider doing so? Hunt's are fine just a nuisance having to mix sizes.
@@paulhowes8756 Should have mentioned my Hunt's are all the stepped type for Bachmann Mk 1 coaches.
If a kinematic coupler works when pushed is very much depending on the design of the moving parts. If the parting line is in the wrong location then the production process requires a cleanup step that is often overlooked
Such a relief to find that I'm not the only one having 'dreadful derailments, even without so much rolling stock.
I’m glad you appreciate the honesty of it. You are not alone. Regards Charlie
The piece causing your derailment with the Class 47 is known as a rail guard. It's purpose is to clear away things like bricks (that the kids used to like leaving on the tracks to surprise us drivers from time to time) or other sizable debris that isn't big enough to strike the front buffer beam. Stones on the track just make you jump but do no real harm so nobody worries about those kinds of items.
Thanks CB, this complex technical issue was sorted with a pair of snips!
Regards Charlie
Excellent as always Shippers. Have I missed an episode re the ‘oscillating wheel scrubber’?
Yes. What shocking revelation!
It’s in 157. Regards Charlie
Sage advice on wheel gauge that I'd extend to the entire truck. Gauge is critical, especially important to check out of the box & whenever you buy used. The connection between truck and body is also critical. I have a used HO boxcar that's pristine looking. But hold it upside down and turn the trucks like they're going through curves and you can actually watch the screws turning themselves out. It would literally lose its trucks after a few clockwise runs around a layout. Setting the tightness on all new & new-to-you rolling stock... er... wagons, and check it again after a dozen or so good uses is equally good for avoiding problems.
An excellent point Frank. Are you and I have clearly had the same nightmare issues. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie, the curvature in the trackwork will always be an issue. R4 is all nice and well, but realistically one needs more like a curvature of R40. And the NMRA has decent (online) guidelines for the weight of any length of car.
Thanks Rob, but in the UK we find our locos underpowered for the NMRA weights. Regards Charlie
Derailments are so frustrating. Worth checking back-to-back first, even on new stock.
I couldn’t agree more mate. Regards Charlie
An absolutely cracking video Charlie, brutally honest, probably very accurate and hilarious. Your descriptive talents are priceless. Keep on producing great videos and a great layout.
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it Lindsey, and it’s great to have you on board mate.
Some how Charlie I feel years ago you never thought you would be chasing after causes for derailments and all kinds of other "strange" things just to get a train all the way around your layout . Then stepping back and surveying the layout and realizing " my God I own a whole lot of stuff". 😂
As you say Bob, it’s an astounding revelation when you see it all before you! Regards Charlie
Charlie, I see the McKinley Railway standard for wagon weight is 5gm per cm. I suspect your ballast wagons are considerably lighter than that. The NMRA recommended practice 20.1 would make them a lot heavier - one ounce plus half an ounce per inch. Or in metric 28gm plus 5.6gm per cm. The NMRA recommendation is for HO scale US freight cars which will have two bogies and are longer than British four wheel wagons. The NMRA recommendation could restrict the length of trains that could be pulled up a gradient, but heavier is better for keeping wagons on the track as long as they all use the same rule for weight.
Yes weighing down your wagons is very interesting.
However, let’s not forget that once you’ve added the weights they still have to get up the Helix! Regards Charlie
Unfortunately, these cheap Chinese calipers have no guarantee of precision. Unless you actually paid to get your calipers calibrated, I'm not sure how much I would trust a tenth of a millimeter, and no way in hell a hundredth.
An interesting point Andy, I do have a better pair, so I can check the readings. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie, I'd just like to say I've found this video and the last few videos very informative with plenty of tips I'll be taking onboard. So a big thank you, brilliant stuff. That's not to say your other videos are not informative, quite the contrary.🙂 Cheers, Julian
That’s very kind of you to say so Julian.
Regards Charlie
A timely presentation, Charlie. I'm going through testing of my track with various train consists, both freight and passenger. With all of my rolling stock being equipped with Kadee couplers, the vertical curves have become the bane of my existence. I am now working through my rolling stock to test all couplers for their positioning above top of rail. Simultaneously I am working to flatten out the vertical curve as best as possible. Not what I had hoped to be doing at this point but pushing through it.
Couplings are the bane of our lives DhG, I do hope that you have more success than I. Regards Charlie
I have had loads of derailments, but less now. What I found was most rolling stock is underweight. Also the flanges on the wheels are getting too small on rolling stock since the 1990s. Yes realism is nice but OUR LAYOUTS ARE NOT REAL RAILWAYS and having models with deeper flanges that do not derail constantly are more preferable than realistic wheels which do derail. Yours, and John's Amazing Trains are the only YT channels that does not hide their derailments.
What flange size do you use? NMRA Rp-25 or NEM 310? And does the rail profile match the wheel type? Certain older track types cannot handle RP25, while low profile track cannot handle older wheels
@@ivovanzon164 I am not sure of the size, but LIMA made wheel sets in the 1980s that do not ever derail. They are extremely reliable but are they would be considered crude today, but gimmie that over derailments.
Interesting comments guys. There are so many issues to consider. Replacing plastic wheels is another one of mine.
Regards Charlie
I have found using the calipers / verneer scale to measure back to back can be a little inaccurate, as even the slightest movement off square makes a quite noticeable difference in the measurement read. They are good if you get them absolutely square.
There was some really great information in this video about, not only how common derailments are, but the importance of all the different aspects to make sure they are minimised.
Thanks Brendan, I’m so pleased that you found the video interesting. Also thanks for the tip on the digital calipers. Regards Charlie
Important points to bare in mind. I look forward to seeing the construction of the second helix, and the math's involved. I am also excited about how an understanding of math's can be applied to everyday situations.
Rest assured, I will deal with the maths.
Every day is a school day, after all.
Regards Charlie.
Hi Charlie, Thank you for another informative video and shows I should invest in a back to back gauge from DCC Concepts. Did I notice a bit of flickering headcode light on the Warship? I've actually fitted an ESU sound decoder to mine with their stay alive. I just needed to carefully cut away some of the circuit board so it could fit in. Maybe fitting a stay alive might be beneficial for you? I look forward to the next video as you build the other helix.
You make an excellent point Simon. I also find that headcode too yellow.
Regards Charlie
That was a very interesting and worthwhile set of tests. So often I get "faulty" items brought to me that only require a simple service. Just a thought...has Kelly got a weight issue if it is a dummy loco? When it comes to wagon weight I go for the agricultural solution of super-gluing 13mm nuts on. They weigh about the right amount, do not take up a lot of space and you can always double up if required. As always, measure and test, test, test. I'm very impressed with the wheel cleaning system. My good lady informs me though, that if I am ever caught turning on a scrubber I will be in deep of large amounts of the brown stuff!! Could be a whole new channel...who knows. Stay safe mate
An excellent comment as usual Roger. Yes I shall have to investigate why the warship jumps off the tracks occasionally. Another modelling headache. Stay safe mate,
Regards Charlie
Would not the ballast wagon problem be solved by adding ballast? Chuck in a load, add a bit of PVA and washing up liquid … Charlie’s yer uncle!
You’re probably right Paul, however I will do it with added weight to ascertain how much weight is actually required prior to adding a ballast load. Regards Charlie
Have you ever thought about timed runs using pocket rockets just to see how quick a loop could be done. All for fun mind you.
It’s funny you should mention that. A friend came over yesterday, and we started to turn the speed up on the HST, it got a little scary. Regards Charlie
Thank you Charlie for another brilliant video much enjoyed watching your rolling stock go round the laying and up and down the helix and you shareing your problems with use very honest video and useful information on tools you had to use food for thought has I'm in limbo with my layout whether to move it out the loft to a shed. Take care Charlie look forward to the next one kind regards Gary
Thanks Gary, I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it. Stay safe mate, regards Charlie
Charlie, first off it was nice to meet you at the west camel railway clubs open day, Managed to pick up another Class 50 for £75 which was an absolute steel! We have plenty of derailments, especially on the lift up section. Normally caused by alignment of joins, we also have issues with bogies on some rolling stock being over tightened. We had an absolute nightmare with Hornbys Pullman coaches, Glad to say its now resolved but had to change out couplings.
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed our show and picked up a bargain at the same time.
Happy modelling, regards Charlie
Hi Charlie one of my videos on my Channel features a Crash where my Class 47 47 105 is pulling some carriages and then the first few carriages topple over
Good for you mate, for leaving it in. Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway I thought it might add some more laughter and entertainment for the viewers. Cheers.Lewis
All interesting stuff. I have quite a few wagons needing some additional weight - unlike their owner!
You and me both Davie.
Hi Charlie. I notice on your modular baseboards that you use metal alignment 'eyes' and pins to ensure precision alignment with adjoining boards. Please could you advise the actual name of these - clearly I am not using the correct search term to Google.
I believe that they are called alignment dowels.
And they are available from Squirestools.com.
Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie in terms of track work how often do you see track that is not aligned 100% to direction a point is facing? Often not straight when it should be straight and sometimes on the curved side of a point a much sharper radius than the point. If the track does not have smooth transition, this can open the track width (gauge) slightly, especially where people have sleepers missing at the joints, this can create derailments. Where space permits large radius points and smooth curves help tremendously. Very good video Charlie.
You make a fair point mate, however of course a lot of people don’t have much room, so tightness of curves is inevitable. Regards Charlie
Excellent video as usual Back to back are always a problem with the major manufacturers. You would think they could get it sorted .
I think you’re right Giovanni, but they just don’t seem to bother. Regards Charlie
Something I have discovered recently which has been an absolute breakthrough with the running of my 009 narrow gauge layout is flange depth. Yes it doesnt look as good, but the deeper old style "pizza cutter" are 10x more reliable. I reckon the gradual straying away from these in favour of more prototypical flanges has made a silent but awful reduction in reliability which has gone somewhat unoticed perhaps. Spent ages chasing microscopic trackwork issues only to find that the deeper flange wheels (within reason of course) have quite literally transformed my layouts reliability! food for thought.
What an excellent observation EWS.
Progress isn’t necessarily of benefit to us all. Regards, Charlie.
A masterclass in how to make an interesting and entertaining video about one of the least interesting and entertaining aspects of our hobby Charlie! The close-up of the HST moving off in the wrong direction made me laugh out loud and the ballast train at the diamond crossing was the icing on the cake. I think I will also adopt your approach to “scenic” and “non-scenic” trains for types of couplings as I also have a helix - a great way of thinking about it, rather than slavishly using just one type of coupling (as I had been planning to do). Thanks for sharing your experience and interesting tips and ideas, as always.
Thanks James, I’m so pleased that you found content particularly useful.
Regards Charlie
Enjoying your videos Charlie. I have replaced all my very narrow nem couplings for Hornby medium nem couplings which fit Dapol, Hornby and Bachman. I have also removed the tabs which are constantly trying to push the couplings back to the centre position. This does seem to have helped, especially over points. ill certainly keep watching your videos for more tips
Thanks for sharing your solution, Richard. Regards, Charlie.
Hello Charlie, going back to your last video and this one on couplings. Any model railway coupling would be better than the current tension-lock coupling offered to day by British model railway manufacturers. As we all know the tension-lock coupling was hurriedly designed by a Mr John Hefford of Lines Bros for their Tri-ang Railway system to avoid paying a penny royalty to Peco for use of their knuckle type of coupling, used at that time by both Peco and by Hornby Dublo. At least manufactures today are fitting a NEM pocket to their models.
How ever regarding a replacement for the Tri-ang horn-hook coupling, I can see two advantages for using a NEM Kadee coupling over a NEM Hunt coupling, first the Kadee coupling looks like the prototype couplings that were/are used by the LNER, the Southern Railway and British Railways. And second Kadee couplings can be un- coupled automatically. I might be wrong, but I don’t think a Hunt Coupling can be un-coupled automatically!
Looking forward to your next video.
Happy modelling
Regards Barry
You are completely right Barry. One day the manufacturers will produce stock built to the correct NEM standard. Regards Charlie
Every time I see those Dogfish wagons I’m transported back to my childhood and the naughty trucks in the Thomas book!
Great video as always Charlie - thank you for sharing.
Thanks mate, I’m so pleased that my dogfish wagons bring you much joy as well! Regards Charlie
IF and when I ever get a layout I want a passenger train Resplendent in CP Tuscan Red. being pulled by Empress (CP 2816) and a replica of the Royal train in Blue pulled by CP 2850.
I’m sure your dreams will come true eventually, regards Charlie
Hi Charlie. With the IC125, is the sound and speed change at the helix automatic using block detection or were those changes made manually by you?
Hi Dave, I did turn the sound off manually but with Train Controller, it’s a simple command to input.
Regards Charlie.
Ugh. The infamous dog shi.....i mean dog fish wagons. Issue after issue, personally I would have binned them MONTHS ago XD
The problem is, fixing then become somewhat addictive! Regards Charlie
Like your videos. Generally pretty down to earth. However, in ordering the issues in this video, you failed to put the prime cause of derailments first. This is - unarguably - the general proliferation in modelling, of absurdly tight radiuses in general track and especially in pointwork - all far FAR tighter than scale. If all our track was straight.....then there would basically be no derailments.... Of course, the reality for the vast majority of modellers, is that they simply don't have the available space to follow prototypical curves/radiuses. All the other issue you have highlighted are, in effect COMPOUNDING factors - whatever they may be. It's also a fact that all RTR stock and locos tend to be too light - and again - tight radiuses exacerbate this issue. Personally, I use only express points or greater radiuses. Of course, gradients are yet another - and a severe exacerbating factor.
You make an excellent point HG. However, it’s difficult to encourage people to go to N Gauge, when their space available is clearly not suitable for 00. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie, Kalmbach just came out with a book Model Realistic Freight Car Loads, on my short list to buy, cuz I agree those freight cars look like they could use some weight. My next thing is right from the first video of yours I watched, (some time ago) not only because I luv your English trains (live across the pond not what i grew up with), but I really liked you and your down to earth style and honesty, look forward to every video on Chadwick. Thank-you.
Thank you, midnight rider, it’s great to have you on board mate. Regards Charlie
Excellent video ! Sods Law has Sods Law written all over it !!!! I have seen your previous videos and after checking all my rolling stock, and correcting them, I have virtually no derailments ever. I have a 4-4-0 where the drive wheels are a bit out but nothing I can do about that: Hornby's fault. It just needs to run round a few times on its own to 'warm it up' and then it seems ok. . . . bit bizarre but as you say "we are where we are". Cheers x
That’s great news Richard, regards Charlie
Hi Charlie, I haven’t watched the whole vid yet, I’ve had to pause it at 4:20 after rewinding three times to confirm what you said. I think that’s the first time I’ve heard you revert to Jack Speak. For those who think Charlie calls himself a name… he is actually saying “dit” which is Royal Navy speak for telling a story or “spinning a dit”. If someone tells a boring story the quick response is usually “cheers dits”… so I’m sure I may get a similar reply 😀
An excellent comment shippers!
Regards Charlie
I don't know that other TH-camrs are being dishonest as I haven't heard any claim that they don't have derailed trains. They choose not to show where they have filmed them and unless it is a film on derailing, I don't know why they would do. The club I am with has wide, sweeping curves and long straights, so derailments are less common. For example, I have ran some very old coaches on a 12 coach train without issue. I tend to have them most often because I haven't forgotten to change the points. I do hate the variety of couplings however. Even the magnetic couplings were cheap plastic and so somtimes pulled out, so I have yet to find an ideal coupling. They should improve as 3D printers improve. PS trying to remember what you said about the different coaches!
I take your point but most home layouts don’t have the space for large sweeping curves. If people never include their derailments or mistakes, the viewer can easily have a false view of there own layout’s reliability.
Regards Charlie
Thanks for the video...... Question: What is the height change from going to upper level to lower? In other words what is the height of the Helix?
On the first helix, over 5.5 turns, it rises 42cm. However, in then runs up towards the viaduct. Regards Charlie.
@@ChadwickModelRailway This is almost exactly 3" per turn - or 76.4 mm. I estimate that the helix itself is about 16.9 mm thick at its thickest point including its supports: 6.3 mm ply helix, 3.2 mm thick support member, 5 mm foam base and 4.5 mm code 100 track height. This leaves only about 57.5 mm clear above rail head. I have a similar situation and have had to leave an extra 1.5 mm (78 mm rise per turn) in order to get the necessary clearance. Perhaps I don't build as accurately as Charlie.
The coupling design by some of the manufacturers doesn't help either. Some, mainly Heljan and Dapol really are floppy and have a great deal of unnecessary movements. The ballast hoppers (Heljan I believe) being a typical example. A pain to couple up and absolutely useless when the couplings are under compression such as when propelling a train into a siding. I've also had some models where you need to put a shim inside the NEM pocket as the coupling flops around. Got to say I think Bachmann are the best when it comes to couplings, as are the smaller manufacturers like Accurascale, their coupling heights are pretty consistent.
I think you’re right on the money there Neil, there is a vast difference between manufacturers standards. Regards Charlie
8:02 One of these days Charlie, I'll get to watch a video of yours without getting the giggles at your "honest" experiences!
At least that your as honest as me Kaiwhara. Regards Charlie
Great video, but I have a question as my mind "jumps the tracks": What is it that causes the wheels on a given axle to move inward toward each other, which results in someone having to manually force that 14.5 spacing tool between them to spread them back out? And considering that it takes so much manual force to even get that spacer in place..... the track somehow places that same amount of force to push them inward? [How can that possibly be?]
Sadly Kevin, poor manufacturing standards. Regards Charlie
Hello Charlie. Important to realise that weight distribution in terms of the length of the train will be a big factor. Heavier items should wherever possible be directly behind the locomotive with the lightest at the rear. This was standard practice on the real railway to help avoid imbalance when negotiating curves. It's a very fine balance when it comes to the model railway world obviously. Best wishes from Slovenia.
Great advice Martin.
Regards Charlie
Hello Charlie, another brilliant video, I always learn something from each one I watch, plus they are very entertaining too! Which brand of vernier gauge are you using? Thanks Phil
Hi Phil,
Sorry for my late reply.
The Digital Calliper is made by Faithful.
I may have bought it from squirestools.com.
Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway Thanks Charlie - much appreciated. Phil
Hi Charlie ,I run a small ho scale american switching layout and like you I suffered many derailments with a few KDee logging cars .I hve taken your tip and increased the weight of the single logs by hollowing them out and filling them with a brass rod .They run much better now with no derailments (ha ha so far ) thanks again for all your vids ,best regards Rob A👍
Thanks Rob, I’m so pleased that you have found a working solution.
Regards Charlie
Looking forward to H2.I also have problems with my class 47's .They are always prone to derail as does my Heljan Lion. No other locos cause problems ??
And bizarrely David, sometimes it only happens in One Direction. Regards Charlie
I had a similar issue with my wheel cleaner, so I tapered the top of the track on entry and exit and cured the problem that way. Sorry but I will continue with my Kadee's throughout. Over the years I have tried several different couplings but none are as good or as these, especially when it comes to reliably coupling any different rolling stock to each other or shunting. I have found though that the Class 66s because of the way they are designed, they will only couple up to rolling stock, without my help, on a straight piece of track. But I suspect they would have similar problems with tension lock as well.
I understand Sam, the only drawback with them of course is the shocking price. Regards Charlie
Charlie, It appears to me that a couple of issues that will require attention. Firstly, on the helix, I didn't watch its construction, but I did wonder if super elevation would eliminate some, if not all of the derailing issues. Secondly, Surely the ultimate test is reversing a train through the complete length of the layout, including the helix. And finally, the derailing issue with the dogfish wagon, without wishing to teach your granny to suck eggs, could it be possible turning the offending wagon around 180 degrees or merely swapping its position in the rake, could eliminate the problem at a stroke. It goes without saying that adding weight to certain wagons may also soll=ve the derailing issue. Regards Robin Pearson.
Hi Robin, and thanks for your comment. It would be possible to install superelevation on the helix simply by raising the angle of the track bed. However I don’t believe it’s necessary due to the slow running speeds that I use. Those dogfish wagons however, I have certainly tried moving them around within the rake but I still have other plans, I will not be beaten on this one. Regards Charlie
Mr Bishop if you referred to your helix as helix/spiral 1 and 2 you could have your own versions of HS1 and HS2....I apologise.
The costs are similar Shaun!
Regards Charlie
Morning Charlie Another interesting video thank you. In other videos you have covered track cleaning vehicles and how rubbish some are, you have also mensioned different materials used to make wheels and the tendancy of brass wheels to attract and pick up dirt, would be intresting to know if we could untilise this knowledge to, clean tracks by fitting some brass wheels to locomotives and rollingstock for this purpose?
regards philip
That’s something I’ve never really considered Philip. However, why don’t you give it a go and let us know how you get on? Regards Charlie
Excelente video muy explicativo señor Charlie , he visto muchos detalles que usted a descripto que comparto plenamente , es un verdadero placer ver sus pr0lijos trabajos , muchas gracias por compartir Mario Gallardo .
Thanks Mario, I’m so pleaded that you enjoyed it. Regards Charlie
Nice vid.
As I myself have never had any of these problems, I thought it would be amusing to see how a mere mortal deals with them. And if humor is what you are looking for, where better than this channel. There must be some reason why I continue to view your stuff. I'm on a different continent, don't have a helix or staging, no reverse loops, and I'm in N scale.
It must be the ironic entertainment Donald! Stay safe mate, regards Charlie
Sadly many are to quick to blame manufacturers not their track work or choice of surface to lay their track on.
Good to see this being discussed by a couple of serious channels that don't take the mick. Always a chuckle to be had at people being so angry that their models derail when even real railways are yet to fully eliminate this issue even with billions of research and centuries of improvement.
Excellent comment TK. Regards Charlie
train kits and other bits, Thank you for your reply earlier. I honestly cannot find my origianl comment that you replied to.
In Australia, the local machine shops have also disappeared, or are disappearing. It is something I considered, but the cost of fuel would really add up.
I have ordered a back-to-back from one UK Shop, that had reasonable postage charges.
Cheers, and stay safe, Michael
@@michaelimpey1407 all good, and yeah in some places there has been a decline in businesses that could do it but maybe im spoilt for choice in the eastern suburbs of Melbourne I could tell you of probably 20 places that you could walk up and get one made no issues.
@@Trainskitsetc , when I lived in Melbourne I would agree with you, same with Hobart.
I am now on the Central Coast of NSW, and just not around anymore. Not enough work, and better opportunities elsewhere I assume.
Cheers Michael
@@michaelimpey1407 hope you've avoided the flood waters of late.
I apologise for yet another comment, but don't see how you accept the awful noise from that wheel cleaner after spending so much on Tortoise point motors to avoid the noise from run of the mill Seep or Peco solenoids used on your original Chadwick. OK , I'll shut up now. Rob
Hi Rob, my plan is to use the wheel cleaner once per day on each train. Only at the start of a running session would I clean the wheels. The normal routes drive around it or of course over it when it’s not switched on. Regards Charlie
Your blue Warship is an origonal Mainline version. I have done the same, de motorized for double heading with later Bachman Warships.
You will love Friday’s video!
Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie great video, I ve been looking at some of your earlier videos where you painted some of your T shirts. I use a full torso PVC apron and it really keeps the paint of your T shirt. Just a suggestion (Tim)
Thanks Tim, it’s something that I should look into. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie could you help me let me know what to do the DCC adapter for Lux Wheel cleaner Thank you Terence
By having a DCC decoder fitted to the wheel cleaner, it’s possible to turn it on and off with a loco address. With computerisation this can be done automatically. Regards Charlie
Thank you Charlie for your comments most kind Terence Westcott
HSTs- try an Eastern Region set 9 trailers -in numerical order! [I kid you not] I note how you changed the back to back -does this not loosen the wheel on the axle?
No FS, it seems to work just fine. Regards Charlie
Loveyour videos but you made the common mistake of calling a digital caliper a 'Vernier'. No, it is simply a digital caliper there is no Vernier scale no any of these instruments.
Yes Terry I now know. The problem is avoiding this slip of the tongue.
Regards Charlie
Very interesting video, Charlie. When building the H2 do not forget your nuts. Martin. (Thailand)
An excellent reminder Martin.
Fingers crossed.
Regards Charlie
Showing the problems you have with your layout helps us diagnose ours. Placing weights over the truck should help with the bowing .
Good tip. Regards Charlie.
Are the concertina bits between carriages soft and flexible or do they bump into each other on tight corners? (Sorry about the concertina terminology - I know sweet f.a. about trains.) If they are stiff and cause derailments can you get squishy silicone ones instead? And if the squishy ones had magnets inside they could join up so the passengers wouldn't run the risk of falling on the rails as they pass from one carriage to the next on their hunt for the buffet car.
An excellent suggestion Andy.
Regards Charlie
"Poor Track Work" is my layouts name. Seriously though. quality track work is vital.
That’s a very interesting name for a layout! Happy modelling, regards Charlie
Charlie, I have a peco setrack 2nd radius curve joined to a peco curved point. Problem is my Bachman pannier will not turn on the point! It just runs straight on. I am looking to rip out the point and putting a new one in, do you think it will work?
I’m afraid that set track curve points are dreadful.
Can you not substitute a streamline one? Regards Charlie
Hi can you tell me where you can get the wheel cleaner, i’am in NZ . Great video of the couplings and derailment problems. Mark
It’s made by Lux Modellbau and the details are in my video 157.
Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie, I notice in your videos you haven't a station, platforms tht is, are you going to do one and if so when? I look forward to seeing it.
All the best
Glen
I have to finish the track work first Glen.
Regards Charlie
Just think if you got it all right in the first place you would have never made it to 100 videos lol. If there is one thing I have learnt it’s that practice does not make perfect. 😂 great vid as always.
Josef, you are a wise man.
Regards Charlie
Have you tried “PIVOTING SQUARE MAGNETIC COUPLINGS”.
I do have a pack Adrian, made by Hunt Couplings, and they are the next ones to fit onto my dogfish hopper wagons. Regards Charlie
I had a rake of those hoppers and they were constantly derailing on tracks that were good for the rest of my rolling stock so I got rid of them and bought a reke of EVA hoppers which run dine right out of the box . Also for your squeaky wheels on the freightliner wagons add a spot of white grease to the axle ends . as always Charlie great information for us to contemplate
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it John. And thanks for the tip, regards Charlie