I'd love to discuss 1-for-1s with Richard if I ever get the chance to see him at a con near Philly or something 😂! More importantly I hope my criticisms weren't part of the ones that made him genuinely upset
Seth: I appreciate your manners at the table and your jovial aura Tomer: I appreciate your authenticity and the love of budget friendly options Richard: I appreciate your analytical approach and passion Crim: I appreciate your sarcasm and your dedication to pet cards Thanks guys
Seth honestly sounds like he's happy to be playing magic for a living with a bunch of his good mates and is a cool dude besides. Crim likes trolling everyone and everything to an absurd level of personal satisfaction and enjoyment. Tomer knows probably more random cards than anyone else besides maybe Richard. Richard is like the pool table shark and honestly is one of the better players on the table.
I love that Seth's response to most of his comments is "yeah you're right." 😂😂. Also, Jeff's comment was the must brutal takedown I've ever heard. Hang in there, Tomer!
Honestly, I would listen to 2 hours of the MTGGoldfish LaundryCast or just stuff outside of magic, y'all are just entertaining people to listen to. Also I'm on the 8-10 days for the sheets usually. Towels are every 4 days or so, so usually after 2 or 3 sets of towels I'll do the sheets aswell.
I am a person that once had some odd "issue" with Seth's voice. Then a friend said something that helped "When have you ever heard someone more happy? More excited to play and talk about Magic? No one!" After that I started watching Seth's videos and loved them. Grown to love his voice. lol Because I think, it is a fact. "When have you ever heard someone more happy? More excited to play and talk about Magic? No one!"
@@alwaysonit4660 Being a hater only makes yourself and others miserable. It's so worthless. You need help, or a hobby, or something to brighten up and start valuing your own life, so that you can finally treat others with respect. I can only wish you luck.
@@alwaysonit4660in my honest honesty i like listening to his voice. On the other hand i personally cant listen to pleasent kenobi for a longer time. Its a matter of preference so dont act like it was a general fact
@@alwaysonit4660Jesus Christ you are unbelievably pathetic stop wasting your time going into the comments of videos you don't even watch to hate on something someone doesn't even have control over
@@tbclabamba8051 I don't watch goldfishes video because of this, and I also agree with you on pleasantkenobi. Nothing personal with either of them obviously. I don't know them. We are all allowed to have our opinions. We just need to remember to be respectful when sharing them.
here I was, at the end of the video, like "wow they sided with a lot of these comments and were overall pretty chill, what an uncontroversial video" and then the bedsheets talk came up.
Weirdly this episode gave me more insight on how Richard wins games better than any other episode of the podcast or on Commander Clash itself. I never really thought about how much protection he plays
I did realise it. And in the beginning i played like that,too. But for me it didn't work out, since I'm playing mostly against awful green players and they have so much enchantment removal that they don't care.
As someone who was called out in this episode, I have a massive bone to pick with you guys: I am literally one of Richard's number 1 hot take defenders, and I'm extremely disappointed that he misread the comments thinking I was the one disagreeing with him! I was the one pointing out he won that game 😅 - so I will say I absolutely agree with Richard's response to Crim Swordsing him here. People have an extremely narrow understanding of card advantage in a 4 player environment - they only consider it through the lens of 60 card formats. I did get a little nervous I would be called out as Tomer's hater - I actually really like his budget builds - but I do find it funny how often he dies first, the crew explain why in the podcast, and he gets mad and refuses to change his playstyle! Some edits: Seth: your voice is great Crim: we need you so that these degenerate value/combo players don't go crazy. Keep doing grixis things Phil: I am team Phil I'm a degenerate value player
Single target removal is important though. Swords, Path, or interaction is important. Interaction is the heart of Commander. Not having interaction just means that greedy, solitaire decks get preference. That's just not a fun environment to play magic in.
The problem with these responses is they are kind of bad faith and usually either take what Richard says out of context or just miss his point completely.@@jokerES2 1) Even in this episode, he literally points out he plays very interactive magic: propaganda, wraths, maze of Ith. Just because it's not Swords, doesn't mean he's not interacting with the table. 2) He actually does play some spot removal, just less than the "suggested amount" (1-2) and it's usually more flexible (Beast Within etc.). 3) His argument is that this "single target interaction is important" take is a hangover from 60 card formats that people don't challenge the conventional wisdom on. 1-for-1s are huge card disadvantage in commander, and he's right about that.
@@light-chemistryCalling 1-for-1s a "huge" disadvantage is such a needlessly contrarian take though, and that's been my criticism this whole time. Every event in a game has context behind it and at any given point in time, not all cards in play/in hand are equal. Obviously swords-ing a mana dork on turn 6 is a bad idea, but using a generous gift on someone's panharmonicon likely increases your win probability by decreasing theirs. Countering a rampant growth is almost always wasteful, but countering a doubling season again helps you by taking more value away from an opponent whose win probability would've otherwise increased drastically.
Seth, I love your voice. My wife and I watch have long watched the previews/spoilers videos (even now when they seem like they never end) and at the start of every video I do my best impersonation of "Hello everyone, it's Seth, probably better known as Saffron Olive, and it's time...". Honestly am a bit sad when you drop. If we ever meet IRL I'll give you my best.
Same. My wife always chimes in and joins the "saffronAHliveee," part. She mentioned he hasn't heard it in a while recently and I guess by your comment he has dropped it?
@@JStack I think it's usually there, but I've noticed sometimes vids drop it. Guessing for time when there is just a lot to get through or maybe it just gets forgotten sometimes?
Seth has been around so long and been such a positive and insightful person I don't think I would ever be able to get hung up on his voice even if it did bother me
@@sonchezz it's an act pretty much. Or exaggerated I guess is a better way of putting it. If you watch the earliest videos with Seth he never does it. He essentially created a brand.
Richard’s comment about Seth deserving the Academy Award for the acting during the Chatterfang bait is a good idea for a podcast episode. Go back and watch games where someone pulled off the best acting, and how selling the act was what really won the game. Thanks for the content as always guys
You guys should do a "Best Comments" episode now. A collection of the comments you most appreciated. Edit: I change my sheets every other week. I think every week is excessive, but more than two weeks is too long.
Hi! here on an alt account 😅just wanted to let you all know I love you all. Once again im truly sorry for all the mean comments I left in the past. At the time I was going through some serious bad times dealing with PTSD and depression, and I was lashing at pretty much everyone. I know this doesnt excuses me, but I wanted you all to know that at those times, commander clash videos where one of the very few things that brought me joy and calmed my triggers. There is something very comforting and chill vibes from your videos and I love it. Its not an exaggeration when I say that watching you all play and banter were a not so small factor in me pulling through the worst times and staying alive. Once again, Im sorry for the bad times I must have caused. I love you all, and I love your content, and I'll be forever grateful for what you guys do, and the many many many hours of happiness watching commander clash and mtggoldfish has brough me in the last several years.
Owning up to your shit takes a lot. I hope you're doing better, and I'm glad the MTGgoldfish crew brings you as much joy as they do to the rest of us. ❤
Oh cool I made it in 😂! I actually agree heavily with A LOT of Richard's playstyle (secret rendezvous is a great political card and should be in more white decks), but if he's got a pillow fort then you need to remove the pillows! Use targeted removal for the propaganda and a counterspell for the fog (or just make him use it and let the next player get through) - multiple people should be joining in if someone is that invulnerable, but losing outright is also definitely worse than being down a card or 2. Farewell/austere command-esque selective board wipes (which I run a lot of) are also great, but like, don't let the person with the developed board keep their resources available...make them use the maze or fog and don't just kill the less protected players because it's easier! And I don't disagree with metagaming deck construction and playstyle for your playgroup, it's just clear Richard is WAY better at it because even though "he can't keep getting away with it," y'all kinda let it happen lol OH and before I forget, Crim's turn 1 swords absolutely increased his chance of winning by effectively removing another player. Sample size n=1 that he lost in a game where all things equal you have a 25% winrate really has 0 statistical value. Like, if Richard's win probability went from 25% to 5% Crim only needs to pick up 1% of that 20% that Richard lost for it to be a good play. Might help others more, but if your goal is to win then the "correct" play is whatever increases your odds
This episode was funny but I feel like I have to throw some positivity your way. I often consider the Goldfish Crew to be sources of positivity within the community at a time when it feels like so many content creators are just pushing clickbait negativity. Tomer's always around the socials and supporting some great budget Jank, Seth's streams are a pleasure and full of engagement, Richard and bird force one leadership pulling everything together, Phil (not featured in this episode) just always willing to laugh at himself and also there's Crim.
Please note, preventing someone else from winning does effectively raise your chance to win the game. If you only have to beat 2 people because you halted someone's strategy then boom 33% chance of winning. *Insert Steiner Math here *
exactly. You also have to keep in mind that, if no one plays the single target removal spells, the win percentage of the player playing the threat goes way up. It's sort of a prisoner's dillemma thing, the player who plays the removal spell isn't in a great spot, but if no one does you're just screwed
Talking specifically about the moment that Richard was discussing, this only holds if you can be sure that *not* swordsing his commander means that he will go on to win the game. Remember that even though he's ahead getting his commander out so early, all that means is that he is now strictly arch enemy. So you gotta ask: does he have enough resources so beat the other 3 guys before he dies? And is Swords specifically needed to stop him winning? Because his argument is that there are many other answers that would have stopped him as arch enemy that do not require swords.
@@light-chemistry To be fair, I play Commander very differently, so my analysis is very different. I play with a lot of combo decks at a much higher power level than the Commander Clash players do, and a lot of the answers they use are too slow and not instant speed, making them basically worthless in the scenarios I'm thinking of. I understand Richard's argument a lot of the time, but usually when I snap off a swords, it's stopping a combo piece or a lethal attack, or killing a card advantage engine. There's a lot more nuance to this discussion is what I want to try and get across, but I understand Richard's argument fine
@@pumkinswift8263 and this was my entire point in my comment i made. i can't even count the amount of games iv had where a swords/path has saved me and even let me win the game, be it Voltron commanders when i know im not going to be able to answer them if not then, or Eldrazi or other big creatures that are going to go my way or that are going my way.
You guys were recommended to me by a player at my LGS when I was trying to play pioneer. I now watch every video Seth, Crim, and Phil upload on the main channel and listen to the podcast every week. You are awesome content creators. Thank you for all your hard work 🙏🏼✨
13:45 Haven't seen the vid but if Crim effectively removed one player from the game with the card, he did increase his chance of winning the game. Increasing your chance of winning isn't only based on furthering your own game plan. Disrupting other people's game plan is part of the game. It's not a game of solitaire.
10:20 It's worth noting that it's an eyeroll, not a shocked emoji? It makes for a VERY different comment. Crim's absurdly transparent about his 'not the problem' statements, and they happen every time. To me the comment reads more as, "yes yes, I get it", because whether joke or not, it's uh the same thing again.
I mean, as the resident jank player in my playgroup, I can confirm people will underestimate you because of the jank. As evidence, my Garth deck usually wins games even though every card in it is themed around zoos.
@@casteanpreswyn7528 Jank isn't jank because it's bad, it's just sub optimal. That's how we fall into the trap of thinking it's actually what we should be doing to win when it works.
I think that when people say "TOMER STOP PLAYING KIKI", it doesn't necessarily mean that you play that card too much. It means stop playing decks where the commander combo wins with a single card and your whole strategy is to play that combo. For example: Godo+helm, Niv+curiosity, Siona+shielded by Faith, etc. Tomer is the one that always chooses those kind of commanders.
We need a commander clash commentary episode! Everyone brings forth clips of game moments worth breaking down and talking about (such as the master class seth play).
Seth does have a distinct voice, it did take a while to get used to when I started watching the channel. But does it matter? No, sometimes people have different voices. He's a wonderful human
Oh hey, I'm in the video. lol Gotta say I laughed hearing my name come up. I will say I do agree that there are times where a main phase instant is relevant and a correct thing to do, such as the instant speed draw main phase to make a land drop etc. But while Tef's can be relevant main phase with some synergy or other purpose I still do feel in like its correct more times than not to hold it up until its absolutely needed. As you say, context is key. Much love to the crew looking forward to the next clash!
Love the whole crew! I always find it funny when people get mad at a commander clash game like they had personal stake in it or something lol. Keep doing what yall are doing!
Seth definitely has a very distinct and recognizable voice. To match, he’s very animated and up beat. Mtgoldfish has quickly become my favorite TH-cam channel for MtG content.
They don't typically carve out time to wash my sheets or towels. I cycle through a couple of towels and just stuff them all in when I have load of clothes where they're fit. So anywhere from a week to three and a half.
I NEEDED to hear from you guys, in response to the comment to Tomer about misplays - we've recorded a couple of games on my channel and after filming spotted all the misplays and I though, darn, why are we making these mistakes!! Magic is HARD and when you are checking cameras and trying to entertain, things go awry! If you guys are making mistakes, I'm all good with mine!
A "Get em" Episode of Clash would be so nice... Only the meanest sh*t and really vile stuff... Would be fun to see what would happen... as well as seeing crim playing the same stuff as always 🖤💙
Married man here. We wash our sheets every week, but we also have dogs that hop on the bed (not always sleep there though). Plus, I agree with Tomer, nothing feels better then clean sheets!
Here's something people don't talk about that matters here. I shower before bed, not in the morning. So I change my sheets every 2-3 weeks, but that's probably fine for me.
Seth your voice is interesting - almost every word you raise your tone at the end. You definitely dont have a midwestern or southern accent although a lot of people from the south have a higher pitched voice. Thats why it definitely doesnt sound like its from the northeast.
I have swords in my Orsove deck. But that's because it fits with the flavor, I did cut Path. I tried building a WUG deck to see if swords would make the cut. To my supprise it did not. I needed room for land ramp, and landfall shenanigans. I still have spot removal in the form of Beast and Gift. But swords lacks the versatility I'm looking for in EDH spot removal. The low cost is what's most attractive. Exile really isn't that important, because commanders just go to the command zone. To Richards point, I have as many or more wipes in my EDH decks as I do spot removal. In defense of spot removal, I have been in games where I definitely wanted my chaos warp, and not blasphemous act. I had fully assembled my Nekuzar burn machine. Dealing 10+ damage each draw step, but then the Rakdos player put down an enchantment that skiped their draw step. I guess richards point is that a wheel (my game plan) would work too, but only once, and wouldn't have killed him. A warp would enable me to deal damage each turn. A wheel would be one big pay off, but just the once. I did take second in that game. Warp was my only spot removal in that deck. I had 5 wips in it. And several cards that shut down combat, like Propaganda. My experience with Propaganda is the same as yalls with Studies. I don't feel like the attention it draws it worth the upsides in my casual games. In decks that don't go wide or go tall, its still a must have. Otherwise, I'd prefer spot removal.
Seth’s voice is one of my favorite aspects of goldfish period. I mean for god sake “better known as saffron olive” is a part of Magic culture to me lol
After hearing Richard talk about their win percentages in the wild I'd love to see a podcast after a con where the crew actually keep their own stats against average players to see what it looks like....though it might be a bad look idk 🤷♀️ anyway hilarious podcast love your stuff
MTG cons do NOT have average players. Otherwise it's a cool idea... but yeah no, average players don't consume a ton of MTG podcasts and spend thousands of dollars to go to conventions or build insane blinged decks. even average more serious players don't really do that lol honestly theyd annihilate your true average player since they're actually pretty good. watching crim on stuff like commander at home was an insight into how he plays outside of this group though and how he does risky things with potentially huge payoffs. seeing tomer in shuffle up and play was also cool to see how he did at a completely different table of people. I don't think we need big stats or anything but I'd love to see more of these guys in other groups in general to get that different environment play from them. Man oh man imagine Phil at a table where they're not super familiar with how insane his decks might pop off? oooof lol
I will say the weird cadence Seth says “hello everybody it’s saffron olive” makes my brain feel like it’s a having a stroke. Don’t worry it’s not you it’s me.
Thanks for choosing my comment, Crim!!! 😁😁😁 You're my favorite cartoon villian. 2 weeks for sheets, but thats cause dog and girlfriend. Bi-yearly if i was single 😂
My favourite mean comment on one of my deck techs was 'I hope my opponents make decks like this so I can win all of my games'. It still makes me laugh to this day 🤣
Seth uses a different voice than his normal voice when he does his against the odds videos and stuff, I think that's what people are referring to, rather than your normal voice.
I legitimately couldn’t watch his videos when I had only encountered a couple where he did weird voice stuff. Took several eps with the whole squad where he was interacting normally before I could get over it and enjoy his stuff. No hate, I’m sure others like it and that’s fine. But…just gotta be honest, it’s a huge turn-off for me.
16:50 I have to say, choosing drawing cards and risk losing the game because you were knowingly greedy has got to be one of my favourite things to do in magic. Who cares about winning, I paid for 100 cards I'm gonna see 100 cards
Hey! What about making a follow up to this video? With the most wholesome/your favorite comments for a change, I don’t think I have ever seen anyone doing that
Just for balance Goldfish is one of the most impactful and appreciated parts of my life. I watch every single video from every channel. There would be an unfathomable void left in my life without goldfish. Thank you for the videos! I love the goldfish crew fr. < 3
As someone who gets infuriated by Seth, I want to say that I don’t just pay the 1 for Rhystic study, but I pay the 2 for Smothering Tithe, which even that I will admit is crazy. Granted if someone else is storming, or the tithe player wheels, what am I gonna do; hide behind Glacial Chasms and Mazes like Richard XD
I'm with Richard on the subject of sheets, I'm also married and we are about the same as in we wash it once a month use the 2nd set of sheets/bedding. the REAL question is when do you buy a new Pillow?
Sheets? About every two weeks. Live in an apartment. We HAVE a washer but there is a communal room woth 2 + 2 tumbledryers. So about every 2 weeks we go there for a bigger haul, and then its time for the sheets as well.
if richard had swords to plowshares in his deck he still would've gotten plowed by crim so that's just busted logic. the real lesson here is that protection and boardwipes are far better than targeted removal because tamiyo's safekeeping/blacksmith's skill/kaya's ghostform/turn aside etc are 1 mana F-You's and a tangle/darkness/reins of power/settle the wreckage are infinitely funnier and can completely swing the game. and for all you pro players who say they're bad cause it's only for one turn, they're even saltier the second and third time
@MTGGoldfish Commander you guys killed it with this episode. First off, love you guys and the dynamic of the show I wish I had a mean comment to throw out there in responses to the shows but I don’t. You guys are great, and most don’t understand the concept of “content creation” from the creators perspective but I do. The show must go on and unfortunately that may go over some heads from time to time. This episode was pure gold. The fact you guys can get up there, and make a show out of mean comments, laugh it all off and make jokes at your own expense is why I watch you guys. You’re real humans and it’s much appreciated. Wish I had friends like you guys in IRL. PS you’re a bunch of nuts, Laundry should be done at least once a week or so my wife tells me 😂 I say make a video where you guys throw in some bloopers of doing each of you laundry and Tomer washing his dishes while his wilted plants stare angrily from the corner of the room. Love you guys, love the content, keep making the world a better place one episode at a time.
welp, I have no idea if I'm in these though I don't think I've been mean in the past? Either way I think just about all of us who come here and watch all these hour long+ videos can safely say we do enjoy you guys and the content you bring even if there's some wild AF takes some of you might have sometimes or some weird games played or some feelsbadmoments. doesn't really matter at the end of the day! always more fun than anything else. sometimes somethin just irks ya and people might throw down a comment. :) okay time to watch and see who gets mentioned lol
This was an amazing podcast. I love the consistent magic content, but this was a really nice treat for halloween. Don't know if you've done it before, but it would be cool to do the flip side of this, and find the comments that either were unexpectedly kind or thought-provoking. I feel like just talking about the comments would be amazing for engagement and could be a regular "mini-podcast" (which will probably still be 1-2 hours long).
Richard, I'm intrigued by your approach to removing multiple permanents at a time and preserving your life total. I think I could incorporate some of your play style to improve how I play. Tell me, what are some of your favorite cards to run to destroy multiple permanents? I play mostly black, green, blue, and red. White is one of my least played colors.
You guys could do a "mean comments we made" episode about the comments from crew members that say things like, "no one has ever loved you" and bizarre stuff like that. Seems worse than these comments. But other than that I love most of you and your videos. Keep up the good work and Happy Halloween!
This was an excellent episode. Seth's voice is usually playing if I'm listening to anything mtg related. I'll put on a old stream replay to drowned out the silence at night. If Seth's not playing, my wife assumes somethings wrong. I didn't realize how much I listen to you guys. My wife enjoys the intros. Keep up the good work!
I will say I love watching you guys. I have two complaints, and it's overdramatics and whining over small hits, and sometimes the crosstalk and going too deep into trying to politic your way out. Like those are the things that I think are decisions made, but I still like you watching. I think threat assessment is poor all around but I don't think that's controllable (and I don't hate it except when it leads to a player unjustly going out early)
Tomer obviously a good industrious Euro. Richard "All this talk of ingrown meta is wrong. I wreck in the real world." Seth: "Maybe I always expect Crim to have the mana drain." The adult secret is to have multiple sets of sheets so you can change them regularly but only wash them once every two months.
The Commander Clash crew are all so iconic that we modelled our little playgroup in New Zealand after you guys. I put spirited companion and dowsing dagger in every deck I can :D Thanks for your enthusiasm for magic and all of your spicy takes.
Crim, Richard, Seth, Tomer and Phil is without a doubt the best commander clash line-up. Nothing wrong with the others that have been on but the meta and chemistry of this line-up is of the charts.
This was all in good fun. We love everyone. Keep the mean comments coming. Someone needs to keep us in check
It is a good thing that this is on the Commander Channel instead of the Regular MTG Goldfish Channel.
I am mean to Crim in those comments quite often.
I personally like the owns, there super funny and long as there's not to much salt after
That episode was hilarious! You guys are legends. Good to see you take some heat so light-hearted.
Glad my card criticisms dodged this one, but I couldn't imagine ever making fun of Seth's voice or getting really personal like that, that's just mean
I'd love to discuss 1-for-1s with Richard if I ever get the chance to see him at a con near Philly or something 😂! More importantly I hope my criticisms weren't part of the ones that made him genuinely upset
Seth: I appreciate your manners at the table and your jovial aura
Tomer: I appreciate your authenticity and the love of budget friendly options
Richard: I appreciate your analytical approach and passion
Crim: I appreciate your sarcasm and your dedication to pet cards
Thanks guys
Seth honestly sounds like he's happy to be playing magic for a living with a bunch of his good mates and is a cool dude besides. Crim likes trolling everyone and everything to an absurd level of personal satisfaction and enjoyment. Tomer knows probably more random cards than anyone else besides maybe Richard. Richard is like the pool table shark and honestly is one of the better players on the table.
L
Jeff's been real quiet since this dropped...
He doesn't watch non gameplay videos
😂
Wow, Jeff sucks
I'm famous!
@@jeffe2267 omg its him
Tomer: Protagonist
Seth: Comic relief
Richard: Tec nerd
Crim: Villain
Lies, Crim is the hero!
idk for me it's more like:
Seth - Protagonist
Crim - Comic relief
Tomer - Tech nerd
Richard - Villain
Phil is the Protagonist
Phil is Luke
Richard is Obiwan
Crim is Han
Tomer Admiral Motti
Seth is Leia
@@Ariaoff.Limits all grixis players are villains, and they know that hahahaha
I love that Seth's response to most of his comments is "yeah you're right." 😂😂. Also, Jeff's comment was the must brutal takedown I've ever heard. Hang in there, Tomer!
I love that I was included in this 😂. Also, Crim, really good try at my last name. You did better than most people do on their first try
Honestly, I would listen to 2 hours of the MTGGoldfish LaundryCast or just stuff outside of magic, y'all are just entertaining people to listen to. Also I'm on the 8-10 days for the sheets usually. Towels are every 4 days or so, so usually after 2 or 3 sets of towels I'll do the sheets aswell.
Every podcast should end with some wildly off topic discussion. Like, can we know everyone's favorite drink. (That's fluid for you Seth)
Tbf we're a global community and I'd argue that this and the usual shower question differs a lot based on what climate zone you're from.
I am a person that once had some odd "issue" with Seth's voice.
Then a friend said something that helped "When have you ever heard someone more happy? More excited to play and talk about Magic? No one!" After that I started watching Seth's videos and loved them. Grown to love his voice. lol
Because I think, it is a fact. "When have you ever heard someone more happy? More excited to play and talk about Magic? No one!"
@@alwaysonit4660 Being a hater only makes yourself and others miserable. It's so worthless.
You need help, or a hobby, or something to brighten up and start valuing your own life, so that you can finally treat others with respect. I can only wish you luck.
@@alwaysonit4660in my honest honesty i like listening to his voice. On the other hand i personally cant listen to pleasent kenobi for a longer time. Its a matter of preference so dont act like it was a general fact
@@alwaysonit4660Jesus Christ you are unbelievably pathetic stop wasting your time going into the comments of videos you don't even watch to hate on something someone doesn't even have control over
@@tbclabamba8051 I don't watch goldfishes video because of this, and I also agree with you on pleasantkenobi. Nothing personal with either of them obviously. I don't know them.
We are all allowed to have our opinions. We just need to remember to be respectful when sharing them.
here I was, at the end of the video, like "wow they sided with a lot of these comments and were overall pretty chill, what an uncontroversial video" and then the bedsheets talk came up.
Phil actually missing this episode because it's sheet cleaning day.
"When I was single, maybe once every 4 months" this is the deep Richard MTG Goldfish lore I didn't know I needed.
Also, Phil is the hero/protagonist of Commander Clash.
Agreed, he sometimes even try's to be the villain but the dude is too good natured for his own good lmao
Value = Synergy = Power of Friendship, protagonist confirmed
Are you kidding bro? hes the secret villain. The green bias is real
Rystic Study strategy: pay the 1 until someone doesn't, note who breaks the good faith, blame them when the rystic study player wins
Weirdly this episode gave me more insight on how Richard wins games better than any other episode of the podcast or on Commander Clash itself. I never really thought about how much protection he plays
I did realise it. And in the beginning i played like that,too.
But for me it didn't work out, since I'm playing mostly against awful green players and they have so much enchantment removal that they don't care.
2:18 Crim attempting to use the non-existent straw had me dying before the episode even really started.
Ayoooo I'm losing my shit right now 😂
😂good spot
"OK, no one noticed. Got away with it."
No one can be mean to Tomer, look at his face so cute.
As someone who was called out in this episode, I have a massive bone to pick with you guys: I am literally one of Richard's number 1 hot take defenders, and I'm extremely disappointed that he misread the comments thinking I was the one disagreeing with him! I was the one pointing out he won that game 😅 - so I will say I absolutely agree with Richard's response to Crim Swordsing him here. People have an extremely narrow understanding of card advantage in a 4 player environment - they only consider it through the lens of 60 card formats.
I did get a little nervous I would be called out as Tomer's hater - I actually really like his budget builds - but I do find it funny how often he dies first, the crew explain why in the podcast, and he gets mad and refuses to change his playstyle!
Some edits:
Seth: your voice is great
Crim: we need you so that these degenerate value/combo players don't go crazy. Keep doing grixis things
Phil: I am team Phil I'm a degenerate value player
I think Richard just had a boomer moment and couldn’t tell who was replying to who’s message. Can see clearly you were responding to the other dude
yeah it's all good it's an honour just to be mentioned 😂 - I'm not actually mad@@TheHomieNess
Single target removal is important though. Swords, Path, or interaction is important. Interaction is the heart of Commander. Not having interaction just means that greedy, solitaire decks get preference.
That's just not a fun environment to play magic in.
The problem with these responses is they are kind of bad faith and usually either take what Richard says out of context or just miss his point completely.@@jokerES2 1) Even in this episode, he literally points out he plays very interactive magic: propaganda, wraths, maze of Ith. Just because it's not Swords, doesn't mean he's not interacting with the table. 2) He actually does play some spot removal, just less than the "suggested amount" (1-2) and it's usually more flexible (Beast Within etc.). 3) His argument is that this "single target interaction is important" take is a hangover from 60 card formats that people don't challenge the conventional wisdom on. 1-for-1s are huge card disadvantage in commander, and he's right about that.
@@light-chemistryCalling 1-for-1s a "huge" disadvantage is such a needlessly contrarian take though, and that's been my criticism this whole time. Every event in a game has context behind it and at any given point in time, not all cards in play/in hand are equal. Obviously swords-ing a mana dork on turn 6 is a bad idea, but using a generous gift on someone's panharmonicon likely increases your win probability by decreasing theirs. Countering a rampant growth is almost always wasteful, but countering a doubling season again helps you by taking more value away from an opponent whose win probability would've otherwise increased drastically.
I'm married and we change our sheets every 2-3 weeks. But when I was single.....months, many months.
"Are sheets are necessity?" hahahhaah best line Seth! I love the sheet talk - more banter topics please!
Seth, I love your voice. My wife and I watch have long watched the previews/spoilers videos (even now when they seem like they never end) and at the start of every video I do my best impersonation of "Hello everyone, it's Seth, probably better known as Saffron Olive, and it's time...". Honestly am a bit sad when you drop. If we ever meet IRL I'll give you my best.
Same. My wife always chimes in and joins the "saffronAHliveee," part. She mentioned he hasn't heard it in a while recently and I guess by your comment he has dropped it?
@@JStack I think it's usually there, but I've noticed sometimes vids drop it. Guessing for time when there is just a lot to get through or maybe it just gets forgotten sometimes?
Seth has been around so long and been such a positive and insightful person I don't think I would ever be able to get hung up on his voice even if it did bother me
@sonchezz it's gottabe in every video. It's just so iconic
@@sonchezz it's an act pretty much. Or exaggerated I guess is a better way of putting it. If you watch the earliest videos with Seth he never does it. He essentially created a brand.
Richard’s comment about Seth deserving the Academy Award for the acting during the Chatterfang bait is a good idea for a podcast episode.
Go back and watch games where someone pulled off the best acting, and how selling the act was what really won the game.
Thanks for the content as always guys
I love this group of magic-loving nerds. I seriously look forward to these videos, alongside the whole of MTGGoldfish, every week. Thank you tons!
You guys should do a "Best Comments" episode now. A collection of the comments you most appreciated.
Edit: I change my sheets every other week. I think every week is excessive, but more than two weeks is too long.
TOMER! CHANGE THE BATTERIES IN YOUR CLOCK!!!
Hi! here on an alt account 😅just wanted to let you all know I love you all. Once again im truly sorry for all the mean comments I left in the past. At the time I was going through some serious bad times dealing with PTSD and depression, and I was lashing at pretty much everyone. I know this doesnt excuses me, but I wanted you all to know that at those times, commander clash videos where one of the very few things that brought me joy and calmed my triggers. There is something very comforting and chill vibes from your videos and I love it.
Its not an exaggeration when I say that watching you all play and banter were a not so small factor in me pulling through the worst times and staying alive. Once again, Im sorry for the bad times I must have caused. I love you all, and I love your content, and I'll be forever grateful for what you guys do, and the many many many hours of happiness watching commander clash and mtggoldfish has brough me in the last several years.
This was so mature and sensible sounding. Hope you're able to keep those issues at bay, and heal.
Owning up to your shit takes a lot. I hope you're doing better, and I'm glad the MTGgoldfish crew brings you as much joy as they do to the rest of us. ❤
Hey, I've been there before and it hurts. Hope you're in a better place now, peace and love :)
Hope you're doing better, I wish you strength
Yeah, no one cares
Oh cool I made it in 😂! I actually agree heavily with A LOT of Richard's playstyle (secret rendezvous is a great political card and should be in more white decks), but if he's got a pillow fort then you need to remove the pillows! Use targeted removal for the propaganda and a counterspell for the fog (or just make him use it and let the next player get through) - multiple people should be joining in if someone is that invulnerable, but losing outright is also definitely worse than being down a card or 2. Farewell/austere command-esque selective board wipes (which I run a lot of) are also great, but like, don't let the person with the developed board keep their resources available...make them use the maze or fog and don't just kill the less protected players because it's easier!
And I don't disagree with metagaming deck construction and playstyle for your playgroup, it's just clear Richard is WAY better at it because even though "he can't keep getting away with it," y'all kinda let it happen lol
OH and before I forget, Crim's turn 1 swords absolutely increased his chance of winning by effectively removing another player. Sample size n=1 that he lost in a game where all things equal you have a 25% winrate really has 0 statistical value. Like, if Richard's win probability went from 25% to 5% Crim only needs to pick up 1% of that 20% that Richard lost for it to be a good play. Might help others more, but if your goal is to win then the "correct" play is whatever increases your odds
This episode was funny but I feel like I have to throw some positivity your way. I often consider the Goldfish Crew to be sources of positivity within the community at a time when it feels like so many content creators are just pushing clickbait negativity. Tomer's always around the socials and supporting some great budget Jank, Seth's streams are a pleasure and full of engagement, Richard and bird force one leadership pulling everything together, Phil (not featured in this episode) just always willing to laugh at himself and also there's Crim.
Outch 😂
Crim cannot be replaced and is also a very important and fun part of the crew imo
Yeah! They complain infrequently enough that I can take their complaints a lot more seriously than the people who whine about everything
Please note, preventing someone else from winning does effectively raise your chance to win the game. If you only have to beat 2 people because you halted someone's strategy then boom 33% chance of winning.
*Insert Steiner Math here *
exactly. You also have to keep in mind that, if no one plays the single target removal spells, the win percentage of the player playing the threat goes way up. It's sort of a prisoner's dillemma thing, the player who plays the removal spell isn't in a great spot, but if no one does you're just screwed
Talking specifically about the moment that Richard was discussing, this only holds if you can be sure that *not* swordsing his commander means that he will go on to win the game. Remember that even though he's ahead getting his commander out so early, all that means is that he is now strictly arch enemy. So you gotta ask: does he have enough resources so beat the other 3 guys before he dies? And is Swords specifically needed to stop him winning? Because his argument is that there are many other answers that would have stopped him as arch enemy that do not require swords.
That's assuming it's a mystery door scenario and not materially different board states and players
@@light-chemistry To be fair, I play Commander very differently, so my analysis is very different. I play with a lot of combo decks at a much higher power level than the Commander Clash players do, and a lot of the answers they use are too slow and not instant speed, making them basically worthless in the scenarios I'm thinking of. I understand Richard's argument a lot of the time, but usually when I snap off a swords, it's stopping a combo piece or a lethal attack, or killing a card advantage engine. There's a lot more nuance to this discussion is what I want to try and get across, but I understand Richard's argument fine
@@pumkinswift8263 and this was my entire point in my comment i made. i can't even count the amount of games iv had where a swords/path has saved me and even let me win the game, be it Voltron commanders when i know im not going to be able to answer them if not then, or Eldrazi or other big creatures that are going to go my way or that are going my way.
You guys were recommended to me by a player at my LGS when I was trying to play pioneer. I now watch every video Seth, Crim, and Phil upload on the main channel and listen to the podcast every week. You are awesome content creators. Thank you for all your hard work 🙏🏼✨
13:45 Haven't seen the vid but if Crim effectively removed one player from the game with the card, he did increase his chance of winning the game. Increasing your chance of winning isn't only based on furthering your own game plan. Disrupting other people's game plan is part of the game. It's not a game of solitaire.
10:20 It's worth noting that it's an eyeroll, not a shocked emoji? It makes for a VERY different comment. Crim's absurdly transparent about his 'not the problem' statements, and they happen every time. To me the comment reads more as, "yes yes, I get it", because whether joke or not, it's uh the same thing again.
If it's annoying then it's just a joke and your fault for not getting it
Tomer’s stress when he hears Crim’s sheet washing schedule because of dogs 😂
Richard: "I think people underestimate us because we play jank."
Also Richard: Unironically plays Secret Rendezvous... 😆
I mean, as the resident jank player in my playgroup, I can confirm people will underestimate you because of the jank. As evidence, my Garth deck usually wins games even though every card in it is themed around zoos.
@@casteanpreswyn7528 Jank isn't jank because it's bad, it's just sub optimal. That's how we fall into the trap of thinking it's actually what we should be doing to win when it works.
@@Spaced92 I don't know anyone who assumes jank is what wins the game. Jank is just more fun to me, cause it takes more effort to assemble.
Secret Rendezvous actually a solid card. Speaking from playing it a ton, even at stronger tables.
21:11 Richard Crim and Seth with the same reaction was so funny.
I think that when people say "TOMER STOP PLAYING KIKI", it doesn't necessarily mean that you play that card too much. It means stop playing decks where the commander combo wins with a single card and your whole strategy is to play that combo. For example: Godo+helm, Niv+curiosity, Siona+shielded by Faith, etc.
Tomer is the one that always chooses those kind of commanders.
We need a commander clash commentary episode! Everyone brings forth clips of game moments worth breaking down and talking about (such as the master class seth play).
I actually really love this idea
Seth does have a distinct voice, it did take a while to get used to when I started watching the channel. But does it matter? No, sometimes people have different voices. He's a wonderful human
Oh hey, I'm in the video. lol Gotta say I laughed hearing my name come up. I will say I do agree that there are times where a main phase instant is relevant and a correct thing to do, such as the instant speed draw main phase to make a land drop etc. But while Tef's can be relevant main phase with some synergy or other purpose I still do feel in like its correct more times than not to hold it up until its absolutely needed. As you say, context is key.
Much love to the crew looking forward to the next clash!
Love the whole crew! I always find it funny when people get mad at a commander clash game like they had personal stake in it or something lol. Keep doing what yall are doing!
Seth definitely has a very distinct and recognizable voice. To match, he’s very animated and up beat. Mtgoldfish has quickly become my favorite TH-cam channel for MtG content.
Tomer is still not beating the sweetheart allegations ❤
Only 10 minutes in and already hilarious pod! Love the whole crew!
They don't typically carve out time to wash my sheets or towels. I cycle through a couple of towels and just stuff them all in when I have load of clothes where they're fit. So anywhere from a week to three and a half.
This was a really funny one - The discussion about sheet changing had me rolling
I NEEDED to hear from you guys, in response to the comment to Tomer about misplays - we've recorded a couple of games on my channel and after filming spotted all the misplays and I though, darn, why are we making these mistakes!! Magic is HARD and when you are checking cameras and trying to entertain, things go awry! If you guys are making mistakes, I'm all good with mine!
A "Get em" Episode of Clash would be so nice... Only the meanest sh*t and really vile stuff...
Would be fun to see what would happen... as well as seeing crim playing the same stuff as always 🖤💙
Interning at MTGGoldfish low key sounds sick
You'd be washing sheets all day
Married man here. We wash our sheets every week, but we also have dogs that hop on the bed (not always sleep there though). Plus, I agree with Tomer, nothing feels better then clean sheets!
Here's something people don't talk about that matters here. I shower before bed, not in the morning. So I change my sheets every 2-3 weeks, but that's probably fine for me.
Insert mean comment here
I can't believe you would say something so mean on the Internet
#canceled
This comment is the average number of all comments.
How dare you!
how dare you!!!
Seth your voice is interesting - almost every word you raise your tone at the end. You definitely dont have a midwestern or southern accent although a lot of people from the south have a higher pitched voice. Thats why it definitely doesnt sound like its from the northeast.
I have swords in my Orsove deck. But that's because it fits with the flavor, I did cut Path.
I tried building a WUG deck to see if swords would make the cut. To my supprise it did not. I needed room for land ramp, and landfall shenanigans.
I still have spot removal in the form of Beast and Gift. But swords lacks the versatility I'm looking for in EDH spot removal. The low cost is what's most attractive. Exile really isn't that important, because commanders just go to the command zone.
To Richards point, I have as many or more wipes in my EDH decks as I do spot removal.
In defense of spot removal, I have been in games where I definitely wanted my chaos warp, and not blasphemous act. I had fully assembled my Nekuzar burn machine. Dealing 10+ damage each draw step, but then the Rakdos player put down an enchantment that skiped their draw step. I guess richards point is that a wheel (my game plan) would work too, but only once, and wouldn't have killed him. A warp would enable me to deal damage each turn. A wheel would be one big pay off, but just the once. I did take second in that game. Warp was my only spot removal in that deck. I had 5 wips in it. And several cards that shut down combat, like Propaganda.
My experience with Propaganda is the same as yalls with Studies. I don't feel like the attention it draws it worth the upsides in my casual games. In decks that don't go wide or go tall, its still a must have. Otherwise, I'd prefer spot removal.
So, Seth I like your voice, but I wasn’t surprised you were from New York. You sound like a friend I have who’s from New York.
Seth’s voice is one of my favorite aspects of goldfish period. I mean for god sake “better known as saffron olive” is a part of Magic culture to me lol
Better knnowwnnn as Saffrronnnn Ol'live.
I loved the It’s Always Sunny In Philadelphia comparison.
Seth is Charlie
Tomer is Mac
Richard is Frank
Crim is Dennis
After hearing Richard talk about their win percentages in the wild I'd love to see a podcast after a con where the crew actually keep their own stats against average players to see what it looks like....though it might be a bad look idk 🤷♀️ anyway hilarious podcast love your stuff
MTG cons do NOT have average players. Otherwise it's a cool idea... but yeah no, average players don't consume a ton of MTG podcasts and spend thousands of dollars to go to conventions or build insane blinged decks. even average more serious players don't really do that lol
honestly theyd annihilate your true average player since they're actually pretty good. watching crim on stuff like commander at home was an insight into how he plays outside of this group though and how he does risky things with potentially huge payoffs. seeing tomer in shuffle up and play was also cool to see how he did at a completely different table of people.
I don't think we need big stats or anything but I'd love to see more of these guys in other groups in general to get that different environment play from them. Man oh man imagine Phil at a table where they're not super familiar with how insane his decks might pop off? oooof lol
A podcast episode on hardest ways to own someone would be sick honestly
I will say the weird cadence Seth says “hello everybody it’s saffron olive” makes my brain feel like it’s a having a stroke. Don’t worry it’s not you it’s me.
Thanks for choosing my comment, Crim!!! 😁😁😁 You're my favorite cartoon villian.
2 weeks for sheets, but thats cause dog and girlfriend. Bi-yearly if i was single 😂
What an incredible episode. Nice to see the reactions, perspective, reflection, good humor.
My favourite mean comment on one of my deck techs was 'I hope my opponents make decks like this so I can win all of my games'. It still makes me laugh to this day 🤣
Where do I sign up for the sheet cast?
39:20 Out of the whole crew, I think Phil is the closest to being the protagonist
We aspire to be a weekly sheet cleaning couple.
We live as a monthly sheet cleaning couple
aim high, miss high....
Seth uses a different voice than his normal voice when he does his against the odds videos and stuff, I think that's what people are referring to, rather than your normal voice.
I legitimately couldn’t watch his videos when I had only encountered a couple where he did weird voice stuff. Took several eps with the whole squad where he was interacting normally before I could get over it and enjoy his stuff.
No hate, I’m sure others like it and that’s fine. But…just gotta be honest, it’s a huge turn-off for me.
16:50 I have to say, choosing drawing cards and risk losing the game because you were knowingly greedy has got to be one of my favourite things to do in magic. Who cares about winning, I paid for 100 cards I'm gonna see 100 cards
I wasn’t a hater until I heard their sheet and towel takes, my god (except for tomer, his sheet takes are good)
Hey! What about making a follow up to this video? With the most wholesome/your favorite comments for a change, I don’t think I have ever seen anyone doing that
The Seth and Tomer sheet changing schedules are forever etched into my brain as part the mtggoldfish lore.
Just for balance
Goldfish is one of the most impactful and appreciated parts of my life.
I watch every single video from every channel.
There would be an unfathomable void left in my life without goldfish.
Thank you for the videos! I love the goldfish crew fr. < 3
Tomer: Michael Strahan
Richard: Jimmy Johnson
Seth: Terry Bradshaw
Crim: Sean Payton
Phil: Howie Long
We need a poll for the sheets question. I’m like every 3 weeks
As someone who gets infuriated by Seth, I want to say that I don’t just pay the 1 for Rhystic study, but I pay the 2 for Smothering Tithe, which even that I will admit is crazy. Granted if someone else is storming, or the tithe player wheels, what am I gonna do; hide behind Glacial Chasms and Mazes like Richard XD
This really is one of the healthiest communities in youtube if these are the mean comments ❤
I'm with Richard on the subject of sheets, I'm also married and we are about the same as in we wash it once a month use the 2nd set of sheets/bedding.
the REAL question is when do you buy a new Pillow?
I have two sets of sheets. Clean them about once every two weeks. Will use the one, swap the other, then clean both sets on the same day
I'd honestly listen to a non-mtg podcast with the crew just bantering it's always amazing
Sheets? About every two weeks.
Live in an apartment. We HAVE a washer but there is a communal room woth 2 + 2 tumbledryers. So about every 2 weeks we go there for a bigger haul, and then its time for the sheets as well.
People who hate on Crim are those who get mad if you only attack them once at the beginning of the game & hold a grudge the whole match. 😂
if richard had swords to plowshares in his deck he still would've gotten plowed by crim so that's just busted logic. the real lesson here is that protection and boardwipes are far better than targeted removal because tamiyo's safekeeping/blacksmith's skill/kaya's ghostform/turn aside etc are 1 mana F-You's and a tangle/darkness/reins of power/settle the wreckage are infinitely funnier and can completely swing the game. and for all you pro players who say they're bad cause it's only for one turn, they're even saltier the second and third time
Wait... Isnt Richard the Intern for Goldfish? Is that how he can try and recruit other Interns...?
@MTGGoldfish Commander you guys killed it with this episode. First off, love you guys and the dynamic of the show I wish I had a mean comment to throw out there in responses to the shows but I don’t. You guys are great, and most don’t understand the concept of “content creation” from the creators perspective but I do. The show must go on and unfortunately that may go over some heads from time to time. This episode was pure gold. The fact you guys can get up there, and make a show out of mean comments, laugh it all off and make jokes at your own expense is why I watch you guys. You’re real humans and it’s much appreciated. Wish I had friends like you guys in IRL. PS you’re a bunch of nuts, Laundry should be done at least once a week or so my wife tells me 😂 I say make a video where you guys throw in some bloopers of doing each of you laundry and Tomer washing his dishes while his wilted plants stare angrily from the corner of the room. Love you guys, love the content, keep making the world a better place one episode at a time.
This was just a sneaky way to make us all post nice comments! And I'm glad it worked! ❤
welp, I have no idea if I'm in these though I don't think I've been mean in the past? Either way I think just about all of us who come here and watch all these hour long+ videos can safely say we do enjoy you guys and the content you bring even if there's some wild AF takes some of you might have sometimes or some weird games played or some feelsbadmoments. doesn't really matter at the end of the day! always more fun than anything else.
sometimes somethin just irks ya and people might throw down a comment. :) okay time to watch and see who gets mentioned lol
This was an amazing podcast. I love the consistent magic content, but this was a really nice treat for halloween. Don't know if you've done it before, but it would be cool to do the flip side of this, and find the comments that either were unexpectedly kind or thought-provoking. I feel like just talking about the comments would be amazing for engagement and could be a regular "mini-podcast" (which will probably still be 1-2 hours long).
Richard, I'm intrigued by your approach to removing multiple permanents at a time and preserving your life total. I think I could incorporate some of your play style to improve how I play. Tell me, what are some of your favorite cards to run to destroy multiple permanents? I play mostly black, green, blue, and red. White is one of my least played colors.
The way Crims camera is setup in this video I could definitely imagine him forgetting to turn it off and recording himself sleeping.
Rhystic Study? Smothering Tithe? I do not negotiate with terrorists.
You guys could do a "mean comments we made" episode about the comments from crew members that say things like, "no one has ever loved you" and bizarre stuff like that. Seems worse than these comments.
But other than that I love most of you and your videos. Keep up the good work and Happy Halloween!
This was an excellent episode. Seth's voice is usually playing if I'm listening to anything mtg related. I'll put on a old stream replay to drowned out the silence at night. If Seth's not playing, my wife assumes somethings wrong. I didn't realize how much I listen to you guys. My wife enjoys the intros. Keep up the good work!
My partner and I wash sheets about every two weeks, more often in the summer. I sleep hot so we've gotta do it at least that often!
As for Seth's voice, he has a slightly higher pitch with some nasal sounds going on. Thats really about it.
I will say I love watching you guys. I have two complaints, and it's overdramatics and whining over small hits, and sometimes the crosstalk and going too deep into trying to politic your way out. Like those are the things that I think are decisions made, but I still like you watching. I think threat assessment is poor all around but I don't think that's controllable (and I don't hate it except when it leads to a player unjustly going out early)
Tomer obviously a good industrious Euro.
Richard "All this talk of ingrown meta is wrong. I wreck in the real world."
Seth: "Maybe I always expect Crim to have the mana drain."
The adult secret is to have multiple sets of sheets so you can change them regularly but only wash them once every two months.
The Commander Clash crew are all so iconic that we modelled our little playgroup in New Zealand after you guys.
I put spirited companion and dowsing dagger in every deck I can :D
Thanks for your enthusiasm for magic and all of your spicy takes.
Im glad you guys did this kind of video and keep up the great work!!!!
I love it, thanks for the content guys! you all are awesome and I am thankful for the content
Crim, Richard, Seth, Tomer and Phil is without a doubt the best commander clash line-up. Nothing wrong with the others that have been on but the meta and chemistry of this line-up is of the charts.
Props to you guys, engaging your critics is hard. I respect you guys being willing to do that publicly.
Can you do the same with thirsty comments please :D
the changing of the sheets depends on the time of year, from april to october, every 2 weeks, rest of the year monthly.
Love you guys so much, been watching for I think maybe 5 years now? This podcast was great, keeping doing what yall do best!
"it was just a prank, bro! Why u mad?!"
Goldfish Crew, 2023.