Archer's paradox doesn't happen on bows unless you are finger shooting them. You can shoot a steel rod out of the average compound with a launcher rest, and a release aid. You don't need to match arrows spine to the bow other than to be sure you have enough of it. In that respect compounds for the last 30 years have been like Xguns. Shooting bows with fingers, or a riser that is not center shot, and you need to have the arrows tuned for paradox. Tom Crowe the target archer shot the same arrows out of his compound to every championship you can imagine, and he used the same spine arrow varying head weight from 360 grains, to 60 grains, depending on the velocity cap, or forgiveness he needed. That put spine all over the map. Didn't affect his accuracy because he was shooting an inline system.
Paper can show whats going on without having to guess. Paper tuning isnt limited to showing paradox tuning issues. Paper tuning a crossbow is useful in showing if the arrow is under or over spined and yes... you can have either of those situations, depending on the bow/arrow combination. Also shows issues relating to the arrows FOC and (as you stated) spine tuning. Can also show timing/tillering issues for the bow. This idea that a bolt is controlled by the rail, I dont know where that came from but I sure have heard it a lot. The rail supports the arrow and doesnt trap it like a bullet is trapped in a gun barrel. There is more control for sure but it's not 100%. Not even speaking to rail-less bows but there is another bow type which cannot be said to have control of the arrow. Myself and others (some posting results to youtube) do see a benefit to using paper and/or french tuning crossbows which are deemed temperamental. Some bows dont require it as they come equipped with everything fine. Some do not. You wont know till you test. Or you can guess.
You're 100% correct (Lever Action) paper tuning can show if an arrow is over or under spined, but again this comes from a vertical archery mindset. Unlike compound bows, crossbows are sold as complete packages including the arrows. Most have proprietary nock systems and include their own branded arrows and broadheads. Manufacturers aren't shipping over/under spined arrows out in their crossbow packages. Also, 95% of the crossbows already on the market today are more accurate than the person shooting them so (unless you're a tournament archer) rail design is basically irrelevant because accuracy loss/gains are very minimal in hunting situations. As stated in the video, people on various social media platforms are really overcomplicating crossbows.
Unless I missed something a “well tuned arrow” was mentioned twice but the only consideration discussed was spine indexing. So what about arrow stiffness or point weight?
I think the TH-cam videos I’ve seen claiming arrows fly better with turning their nocks just don’t have their nocks lined up with the cock feather to begin with. My guess is when they rotate the nock from fletch to fletch eventually they get it lined up better with one of the fletches so it doesn’t rub against and defect when it flies down the flight deck.
Interesting video !! I have a question I hope that can be answered !!!! Does every crossbow manufacturer use the same technique to prepare the arrows to match the crossbows ??? Thanks in advance !!!
Thanks for the video, I’m looking to purchase my 1st crossbow, while researching, I’ve been confused, thinking I’ve got to be a bolt builder to shoot well. Any recommendations on a 1st crossbow around $500
Sorry but I have to disagree with you. There is a need to nock tune your arrows and shooting threw paper is the best way to do so. If you nock tune your arrows it will shoot better than one not nock tuned.
Essentially this method is nock tuning the arrow because we're not using an actual arrow spine tester to determine the arrow's static or dynamic spine. Crossbows have no adjustable nock height, adjustable rest height, and no archers paradox occurs when an arrow is shot, so there's no need to overcomplicate it. There are three vanes that you can adjust the nock to which will pull the flyer arrows inline. You can definitely "paper tune" if you so desire but it will lead to the same results and be more time-consuming. Unfortunately, vertical bowhunters are incorporating the same tuning techniques to crossbows as they do with their compounds when it isn't necessary.
@@TheOutdoorLab Agreed about part of that but I do nock tune every arrow and mark the cock vane. I shoot excalibur bows. I would not shoot an arrow that hasn’t been nock tuned.
@@neabowhunters8107 The only time you ever need to mess with nocks on is if they aren't hitting with the rest of the bolt. Period. I square up both ends yes, but that is it and I sold, serviced and tuned bows and xbows for 10 years. The MOST IMPORTANT tuning aspect with high speed bows is getting properly weight forward, WEIGHT of the bolt and the biggie-broadhead tuning. Spine indexing isn't even always necessary if your bolts are close enough to group
We have. Arrow oscillation (flexing) occurs but not archers paradox. From (Understanding Archery) "There is a popular belief that the flexing of an arrow in flight is the archer’s paradox. This belief is so commonplace it seems almost paradoxical to say it is incorrect. To clear things up, the flexing of the arrow is not the paradox itself! Simplified, the archer’s paradox is this: When nocked on a bow at rest, an arrow points in a direction off to the side of the target, but when shot the arrow follows a different path straight to the center of the target. Since the arrow rests on the side of the bow, the arrow will point to the side of the target and not directly at it. To fly straight to the center of the target, the arrow must bend horizontally from side to side." There is no horizontal bending of the arrow when shot from a crossbow. Therefore there is no archer's paradox.
@@TheOutdoorLab yes there is...watch it from behind in slow motion...been shooting and hunting with a crossbow for 45 years...you can see it at launch...at least i can
Nice job on how carbon arrows are made and spine index. Much better understanding now.
Archer's paradox doesn't happen on bows unless you are finger shooting them. You can shoot a steel rod out of the average compound with a launcher rest, and a release aid. You don't need to match arrows spine to the bow other than to be sure you have enough of it. In that respect compounds for the last 30 years have been like Xguns. Shooting bows with fingers, or a riser that is not center shot, and you need to have the arrows tuned for paradox.
Tom Crowe the target archer shot the same arrows out of his compound to every championship you can imagine, and he used the same spine arrow varying head weight from 360 grains, to 60 grains, depending on the velocity cap, or forgiveness he needed. That put spine all over the map. Didn't affect his accuracy because he was shooting an inline system.
Paper can show whats going on without having to guess. Paper tuning isnt limited to showing paradox tuning issues. Paper tuning a crossbow is useful in showing if the arrow is under or over spined and yes... you can have either of those situations, depending on the bow/arrow combination. Also shows issues relating to the arrows FOC and (as you stated) spine tuning. Can also show timing/tillering issues for the bow. This idea that a bolt is controlled by the rail, I dont know where that came from but I sure have heard it a lot. The rail supports the arrow and doesnt trap it like a bullet is trapped in a gun barrel. There is more control for sure but it's not 100%. Not even speaking to rail-less bows but there is another bow type which cannot be said to have control of the arrow. Myself and others (some posting results to youtube) do see a benefit to using paper and/or french tuning crossbows which are deemed temperamental. Some bows dont require it as they come equipped with everything fine. Some do not. You wont know till you test. Or you can guess.
You're 100% correct (Lever Action) paper tuning can show if an arrow is over or under spined, but again this comes from a vertical archery mindset. Unlike compound bows, crossbows are sold as complete packages including the arrows. Most have proprietary nock systems and include their own branded arrows and broadheads. Manufacturers aren't shipping over/under spined arrows out in their crossbow packages. Also, 95% of the crossbows already on the market today are more accurate than the person shooting them so (unless you're a tournament archer) rail design is basically irrelevant because accuracy loss/gains are very minimal in hunting situations. As stated in the video, people on various social media platforms are really overcomplicating crossbows.
I switched from vert to xbow because I prefer to tinker with an xbow and get rewarding results as opposed to vert bows that have issues within issues.
You the man Tod!!!
Unless I missed something a “well tuned arrow” was mentioned twice but the only consideration discussed was spine indexing. So what about arrow stiffness or point weight?
I think the TH-cam videos I’ve seen claiming arrows fly better with turning their nocks just don’t have their nocks lined up with the cock feather to begin with. My guess is when they rotate the nock from fletch to fletch eventually they get it lined up better with one of the fletches so it doesn’t rub against and defect when it flies down the flight deck.
Shoot em with a lighted knock and put the camera behind you and put the video in slow motion! They all wobble....
But your right, it's the arrow not the bow!
Shooting a bare shaft into a target alone shows nothing. You have to shoot through paper to see what the arrow is doing in flight.
Interesting video !! I have a question I hope that can be answered !!!! Does every crossbow manufacturer use the same technique to prepare the arrows to match the crossbows ??? Thanks in advance !!!
Thanks for the video, I’m looking to purchase my 1st crossbow, while researching, I’ve been confused, thinking I’ve got to be a bolt builder to shoot well. Any recommendations on a 1st crossbow around $500
Yes! Killer instinct ripper/speed 425, centerpoint sniper 370, excalibur axiom(old but Gold)
Sorry but I have to disagree with you. There is a need to nock tune your arrows and shooting threw paper is the best way to do so. If you nock tune your arrows it will shoot better than one not nock tuned.
Essentially this method is nock tuning the arrow because we're not using an actual arrow spine tester to determine the arrow's static or dynamic spine. Crossbows have no adjustable nock height, adjustable rest height, and no archers paradox occurs when an arrow is shot, so there's no need to overcomplicate it. There are three vanes that you can adjust the nock to which will pull the flyer arrows inline. You can definitely "paper tune" if you so desire but it will lead to the same results and be more time-consuming. Unfortunately, vertical bowhunters are incorporating the same tuning techniques to crossbows as they do with their compounds when it isn't necessary.
@@TheOutdoorLab
Agreed about part of that but I do nock tune every arrow and mark the cock vane. I shoot excalibur bows. I would not shoot an arrow that hasn’t been nock tuned.
@@neabowhunters8107 The only time you ever need to mess with nocks on is if they aren't hitting with the rest of the bolt. Period. I square up both ends yes, but that is it and I sold, serviced and tuned bows and xbows for 10 years. The MOST IMPORTANT tuning aspect with high speed bows is getting properly weight forward, WEIGHT of the bolt and the biggie-broadhead tuning. Spine indexing isn't even always necessary if your bolts are close enough to group
You couldn't be more wrong!
horsehockey.....shoot the image from behind...and tell me there is no paradox
We have. Arrow oscillation (flexing) occurs but not archers paradox. From (Understanding Archery) "There is a popular belief that the flexing of an arrow in flight is the archer’s paradox. This belief is so commonplace it seems almost paradoxical to say it is incorrect.
To clear things up, the flexing of the arrow is not the paradox itself! Simplified, the archer’s paradox is this: When nocked on a bow at rest, an arrow points in a direction off to the side of the target, but when shot the arrow follows a different path straight to the center of the target. Since the arrow rests on the side of the bow, the arrow will point to the side of the target and not directly at it. To fly straight to the center of the target, the arrow must bend horizontally from side to side." There is no horizontal bending of the arrow when shot from a crossbow. Therefore there is no archer's paradox.
@@TheOutdoorLab yes there is...watch it from behind in slow motion...been shooting and hunting with a crossbow for 45 years...you can see it at launch...at least i can