Bringing a Retro Rifle to Life: The Brownells BRN-10 with Paul Levy
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- NOTE: Since this video was recorded, Brownells has changed their plans, and will not be restocking BRN-10 barrels or parts once the current inventory is depleted.
/ forgottenweapons
www.floatplane...
Cool Forgotten Weapons merch! shop.bbtv.com/c...
Today I'm sitting down with Paul Levy from Brownells to talk about the development process for the BRN-10, their Retro copy of the original Armalite AR-10. Brownells is one of a small cadre of companies who have actually been able to successfully execute a project like this, and I wanted to pick Paul's brain a bit about some of the challenges and decisions involved. Thanks to RIA for hosting us!
Contact:
Forgotten Weapons
6281 N. Oracle #36270
Tucson, AZ 85740
![[Full Episode] The Restaurant War Thailand ศึกพ่อค้าซ่าแม่ค้าแซ่บ Episode 2 | 29 ก.ย. 67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/r3lfLNH6Ke4/mqdefault.jpg)
It's going out of production? Dang it sucks being poor.
I'm with you bro!!!
@@Brian123qa I'm with both of you, poor and european!
And now I'll never have one
Yup, tell me about it. The damn kids expect me to forego a BRN-10 so they can go to college...
But hey, at least my older daughter is into shooting, so it isn't all bad.
Yeah because being poor my self the first thing on my mind is not being able to afford to buy a gun 🙃 😒 NOT !!
Is it possible for Brownell‘s to buy out H&M so we can finally get a reproduction STG 44 on the market
There was one made in its original caliber which hornady was supposed to make i saw on shot show,dont remember anything else though ofcourse maybe it diddnt go through.
H&M were too ambitious, wanting to make a 3-caliber chimera so that total production numbers would be higher due to more sales from the combined purchases from those who A) wanted one in the original (heavily compromised) 8mmK, or B) Wanted something in the cheap & available 7.62SS, or C) Wanted one in the most accurate, effective & common (here in the States) caliber .223Rem. If they'd just gone ahead & done one in 8mmK & figured "Nobody else who wants one in a different caliber is going to lay down $ on one when there's more modern guns out there for less money" they'd have had years of production behind them by now, and a back-scratching deal from PPU on the 8mmK ammo...
@@nunyabidniz2868 pretty much what I took away from it and why it failed. They had something very similar to a repro, and then got stupid trying to do quick change barrels, caliber swaps, and other stupid bs that just sank them in debt.
In 5.7x28 or 10mm would be dope.
I wish, noticed that the STG was mentioned @ about 5:40
Ian just sold out the rest of brownells inventory
@@John_Redcorn_ aren't you supposed to be healing my wife?
Really like the idea of retro rifles. Good to see that these old rifles come to life again
Life again you say forgotten you say? Retro you say? Hmm
Me too. Retro is pretty cool
@keith moore an AR-18 would be even better.
@keith moore unfortunately so.
Those are suspiciously like questions someone that’s considering making a repro would ask...
Have you seen Deviant on InRange putting together a retro rifle?
I'd say they are definitely dipping their toes into the concept :P
@@Tallmios hmm, I have not, I’ll have to check it out.
Ian making Ribeyrolles? Count me in!
I was going to buy a BRN-10 until Covid hit and then all of Brownells retro line sold out, now they're going to be discontinued!? That's a huge bummer. I understand if the sales aren't there, but it still sucks. Oh well.
But if theyre sold out doesnt that indicate the sales are there?
@@Ulfstigandr Not if they've accurately gauged market demand, no.
Yes, it’s always been a niche gun. The parts are still going to be made. Brownells will still support them. An ambitious person can still assemble or have one assembled for them.
@@jeffreyroot6300 From the video description:
"NOTE: Since this video was recorded, Brownells has changed their plans, and will not be restocking BRN-10 barrels or parts once the current inventory is depleted."
Just bought one.
Stopped by my buddy's gun store and he was closing up and putting the inventory in the safe.
Me: Was that a Brownells?
Him: Yep.
Me: Can you take it out so I can look at it?
After me looking it over and asking the price, I call the wife.
Me: Hi honey, you're on speaker, I'm in Chris's gun store with him and his wife.
Wife: Mmmmmmm hmmmmmm
"Beer at 10" is also my favorite weapon.
Lol now I can’t unhear it.
XD same can't unhear it you doomed me
When I try to use that weapon, the UN sanctions me.
Beer 10 or 11 who's counting lol
@@bendobbs6044 As Jimmy Buffet said at a recent concert at the Naval Academy: It’s 1700 hours somewhere.
50$ magazine expensive? I should stop buying sig and walther handguns.
You should try being australian. A plastic 10 round cz .22 rifle magazine is often $50+
Just wait until Biden turn 11+ round mags into nfa items
🔴 *Hey guys! Check out this cool rifle that we're not making anymore of!*
So sad that it is going out of production. Wish I could've bought one now.
You ain't the only one. Would love to have one, but can't merit the expenditure right now.
Same...
Myself as well, was going to get one but changed jobs twice so had to keep the money tied up.
Just bought one.
Stopped by my buddy's gun store and he was closing up and putting the inventory in the safe.
Me: Was that a Brownells?
Him: Yep.
Me: Can you take it out so I can look at it?
After me looking it over and asking the price, I call the wife.
Me: Hi honey, you're on speaker, I'm in Chris's gun store with him and his wife.
Wife: Mmmmmmm hmmmmmm
I’ve never heard of this China Lake variant.
@keith moore I think the only surviving examples are in museums now. He’d have to contact one of them to see if they be willing to let him examine it.
China Lake is such a small place in the middle of nowhere. I find it kinda funny that it's most recognized for the grenade launcher.
@@dogboy0912 i have a small crate from there that i inherited from my grandpa
@@TheRealColBosch Yeah. I guess what I meant to say is that out of all the stuff that's come out of China Lake, small arms development is a negligible footnote, yet the grenade launcher is what rings the bell if it gets mentioned haha. China Lake mainly dealt/deals with missiles and more aerospace related armament. It was an operation paperclip hotspot. It's weird hearing it mentioned in general outside of people who lived there or military pilots.
On Friday my brother
Day 6 of waiting for the pump action M79 video
China Lake!
You should have watched it yesterday, then!
@@jeffreyroot6300 I have, it was glorious and worth the week of waiting!
@@tehcrashzord I know! Now I want to see one of the harmonica breached prototypes! Ralph Zumbro’s enthusiasm for one was interesting.
AHHHH!!!! Panic buying BRN10 parts at brownells and they're all sold out already!!! Seriously though, heard "out of production" and went to Brownells and most of the BRN10 stuff was out of stock. Got an upper, lower, & 16" carbine barrel and the portuguese carbine handguards as that was all that was left.
Thank you for the heads up. This got me off my ass to finally order one (I already have the BRN-16A1 and that is my favorite AR to shoot).
Thanks brownells for the awesome rifles! I hope you keep some of the retro line going I am saving up for the m16a1 clone.
Damn. One of the first guns I wanted to buy after college was a BRN-10 but I’ll miss my chance :(
Ugh I wish I wasn’t soooo broke
...if I wasn't so broke...I would have a repro FG42
I got a lower for 98 bucks 2 months back when they were on sale.
Sad to say. Brownells is not a company I'm in good standing with. I got screwed by them over support of an expensive product I bought from them. Which is currently a paperweight because it's unusable.
I went to high school with Paul! Hes a vet and one of the best guys I've ever known. So excited to see him on this channel!
What was his MOS?
@@lioncelica5170 I'll let Paul put that out there if he wants to.
Ian reviewing revived retro weapons could be called "Remembered Weapons"
Or since he's Gun Jesus it could be called "Revived Weapons".
@@juggernaut7625 Errrm, did you mean resurrected ?
@@marieenglish3002 yes, thank you for the correction. For some reason I couldn't think of that word earlier and revived was the best I could do.
I love the retro rifles, and desperately want one, but right now you just cant find any of them. Especially the ar15’s.
Paul, the very least, offer us a fixed carry handle AR-10 upper. Doesn't have to be retro, just basic A2. Please, there's virtually no other plain jane AR-10s out there. I'm begging you, Paul, give us a AR-10 that's not trying to be a designated marksman rifle or a tacticool carbine, PLEASE!!!
Sean Evans wtf.
He hasn't been the same ever since Gordon Ramsay called his sauce gross.
@@mr.youtube1653 Funniest thing I’ve heard all day. Thank you.
gun
That it indeed is.
@@Tunkkis mä nään sut kaikkial
@@mannfred1440 Mää olen kaikkialla.
Was wondering if they could make a FAMAS repro.
Even the French don't want the Famas. it is still in service but being replaced by HK416s. Apparently there are about 100 originals floating around the USA.
Sucks the import ban would stop surplus rifles from making the US market
@@robertbennett883 To be fair, theyve used and loved the Famas for the last 35 years.
A whole nother level of R&D and tooling. They'd have to somehow acquire the blueprints and engineering packages for the FAMAS, which I doubt the French government would ever release. But assuming they did, they'd have to build molds for the furniture, and purchase and/or build several machines and tools from scratch. They could do it, but I doubt they'd be able to get the price below like $5000.
Watch the video again, they managed to do this with a lot of engineering cheating by using off the shelf .308 AR stuff wherever possible. There is no such industry to borrow from and work with for the FAMAS.
Famas is much simpler and with fewer parts. Trigger group on semi auto only is super simple. The barrel can be made from a blanc standard 5.56. Stock, pistol grip, and all other plastic parts are available, cheap and non regulated.
Man it sucks you guys are going to discontinue those. I'm really glad I picked one up though.
Tell them to make more BRN-180 lowers
Ian: anyone fancy some retro French rifles?
Hell yes I'd buy a FAMAS!
@Derrick Flyr im surprised they could run from how hard their cheeks were clapped
Ribeyrolles time has come
Any chance making a 2nd run once Californians are able to buy “Assault” rifles once the ruling comes in favor for Californian Gun owners?
There's always a chance when there's a market. When it opens up, have you and your buddies email Brownell and you'll have a good chance. 👍
Don't hold your breath, it'll only make you blue. I'll believe the PRK AW ban will sunset when I see it...
I feel like they would have sold a bunch more if they got the furniture color correct. We all wanted the handsome, shiny dark brown furniture, and we got dull poop brown.
Possibly a few more, but I doubt it would have been significantly more sales.
@@jimyeats I don't doubt it at all. The litmus test they mention of looking like an original at a distance is very valid, and that's probably the biggest thing that's wrong with the gun at ten feet.
Gun Jesus miracle: putting stigmata on Paul.
better than StGmata i`d say
Gun Jesus inches ever closer to a 6.5 EM2 replica
I would sell part of my family to afford a repro EM2.
@@juggernaut7625 Which half we talking about?
@@adamlewis5765 probably the ones that don't like guns. I like the irony of making money from anti-gun family to go buy a gun.
The part that eat stuff and buy things? Yeah me too!
I personally know of FIVE copies they would have sold if they had have offered them in Switzerland. But local reps said "NEVER going to happen".
Do y'all have importers who could import them individually? I'm sure they'll be on the used market before too long.
Be me, was waiting till covid was over to buy the brn10, "we are ceasing production of this".
Goddammit, the second I was going to buy the 10B last month they all went out of stock. Now I learn there aren't going to be anymore and I can't get even get the furniture from their site anymore so I can't even build one. I really wanted to hand over my money so bad.
When you posted a month ago you still could buy all the parts of the BRN-10B except maybe the BCG (you'd likely have to get something similar, chrome or NiB SR-25/DPMS pattern). Even today you still can get the BRN-10 receivers, barrel, flat slip ring, weld spring, C-clamp, buffer tube assembly and some furniture (but not the pistol grip). I'm putting one together right now and finally have all parts except the retro BCG (for now I got a Fail Zero BCG which also wasn't easy to find). I couldn't get all the furniture in the same color but painted it Testors Master Modeler Dark Green which is very close to Colt 601 green. Some original AR-10s were green (Italian, etc.) so I thought a Jolly Green Giant 601 would be cool. Also a tribute to the US Air Force HH-3E "Jolly Green Giant" helicopter and the 1965 Kingsmen song The Jolly Green Giant.
Bummer that it's been discontinued. I was holding out that Brownells might make a updated version that had more of the Portuguese AR-10 features. These reproductions were a great step in the right direction but felt they never captured the AR-10 look I always wanted. Seems unlikely that will ever happen now :(
No more BRN-10! That makes me sad. It's not in my budget in the near future, but it's SUCH an awesome rifle.
Anyone need a kidney? O POS not sure about the other factors but it's a start.
"For Sale: human appendix - used, but sort of works - costs whatever the price of a BRN-10 is"
@@Seeker-wq8jc Nah I had to give that one up years ago after a run in with some bad hot wings. I won't trade off defective organs. Got some tonsils though? Know anyone in the market? :-D
Anyone else see a sheep in the background of the video?
Brownells are one of the most honest companies out there about their own deficiencies as well as achievements in this industry or any other.
Robert Sears Why would you refuse to do business with a company just because they’re discontinuing a product that didn’t sell well? Seems like a bit of an over-reaction.
@Robert Sears impossible? Local store has one on the shelf. 1600 bucks. Just because you are poor does not mean they are unavailable. They are just out of your reach financially.
@Robert Sears Frankly, that comment makes you sound like a child.
@Robert Sears You should have stayed on and listened to the part about still stocking the parts. It’s just going to take some time and effort to assemble your own now.
Actual video of Robert visiting Brownells. th-cam.com/video/TRTkCHE1sS4/w-d-xo.html
I'm glad I got my BRN-10 earlier this year. Its a pretty great rifle.
How could you have commented 1 month ago when the video hasn't even been uploaded for 1 hour yet.
@@sleepyrasta420 Use a little common sense Mikey. It's called time travel.
@@sleepyrasta420 It was probably uploaded for patreon viewers or something a month ago and just made public now.
I'm a time traveler
"How do you judge the economical sence of a repro..."
Answer- Does it take Glock or Ar Mags
Or AK!
I think the fact that this reproduction only sold a few thousand units over a couple years with all the marketing and reputation of Brownells really shows why reproduction guns won't work 98% of the time.
How to make big money in the gun industry 100% guaranteed:
1. Don't design new guns
2. Don't reproduce guns
3. Work as a shipping employee for a large company and hope an inept employee runs over your foot with the forklift.
Honestly I was a little disappointed. You can't help what information you receive. Oh well, still look forward to the next one!
It's officially a curse; if you start your gun's designation with a B and put a 10 in it, you're going to have magazine supply problems.
What other guns does this apply to?
@@Bustin_cider00 Bren ten
I really hope they'll keep up with the retro ar15's need an a1!
Want!!!
I got a br-15 for my rifle upper back when they were selling the blemished uppers. Glad I got it when I did
Super interesting. Thanks again Ian! You got me back into guns my man
Hope audio better next time, Ian. Missed lot of what he said. It is on me, bad freq loss in one ear and just age I suppose. Still, no problem grokking your dialog.
Thanks, outstanding video! Great to get the straight scoop from Brownells Retro Guru, Paul Levy.
I jumped all over the BRN-601 when it was released after Shot Show 2018 then pieced together decent XM16E1 and M16A1 replicas using old and new parts. Then had to get a BRN-Proto on sale this summer. I kept eyeing the BRN-10A then heard the BRN-601 and BRN-Proto were discontinued so pounced on the BRN-10 just in time. Brownells did such a good job on their retros it's sad to hear the entire line has been discontinued and even worse to see now that parts are going away too. Anybody serious about a retro better order receivers and any other parts they can find RIGHT NOW.
Paul is the kind of guy to get a stamp on his hand so he can get back into the gun auction
LOL 3-4-5000k for a rifle, come to Canada where that’s the average price for a semi-auto rifle. It’s sad that at one time you used to be able to buy back and forth across the border with no hassle. Now not so much. We also regularly pay north of 50$ for magazines that are fixed to 5 rnds FML
I have a BRN 10 and a couple other Brownells retro rifles. I'm sad that its gone. I really like the BRN 180 and hope they got more retro. Like a retro AR180 style stock and maybe hand guard.
Hey Ian!
Nice video but your camera isn't quite focused on you. You should maybe look into this if you make a similar video in the future.
Have a great day! :)
Ar10 in 8mm mauser!? Thatd be badass. That and an ar15 pcc in 7.62 tokarev taking pps43c mags?
Can't you use a high-fidelity 3D scanner to get the dimensions for pretty much any part really easily, as long as you have an original gun? Then you 3D print those parts and attempt to put them together in plastic to get an idea how well they fit, before deciding on material composition.
YOU HAVENT MET THE DEMAND YET, DAMNNIT, DON'T QUIT ON ME NOW
YOU HAVENT MET THE DEMAND YET, DAMNNIT, DON'T QUIT ON ME NOW
Can you please make a playlist of pre 1901 guns for us aussies that want exempt firearms?
Thank Ian for your videos. We Can only dream on owning a beautiful ar10 here in Canada...
In Malaysia, .22 Win Mag bolt action or lever action is something to be dreamed of.
I thought you could get ar's in Canada??
@@SH-gr1bc You missed the Canadian government's huge ban list (including several rifles that never got much past the prototype phase, and at least one coffee flavor)? It was a big deal on the TH-cam gun channels a while ago.
Many items in the retro collection (even the AR-15 ones) say "no longer deliverable by the factory." Does that mean no more retro AR-15s too or is it due to covid and logistics behind that?
The later.
maybe if they weren't forcing people to forgo having income for almost the whole year there would've been more demand.
11:48 - If I ever do start my own business, I do want to try reproducing some old stuff/ make a modern version of it
This was a cool crossover
I built the XM177 with their parts, and a few came from other companies. The only complaint I had about it was the 1:12 barrel twist, before realizing I shoot mostly 55gr. anyway, that and it works awesome with a CMMG .22lr conversion kit. Got the retro carry handle scope on it too. With that thing I feel like the coolest guy on the range.
I was surprised that my Troy 177 had a 1:7" barrel
@@ScottKenny1978 WoW! I didn't even know Troy did an XM177. It looks awesome! Ya, that is odd they went with 1:7. Personally, I'm a 1:8 fanatic. Even 1:9 is still reasonable since I tend to gravitate toward cheaper ammo anyway.
@@chzzyg2698 I went with the Troy over the brownells because the markings are all correct. Same price as Brownells, and Troy is kicking the profits from the 177 to the spec ops charities.
The barrel is kinda nice, means I can shoot everything, even if it's not actually correct.
Colt also makes some retros, but want an arm and a leg for them.
@@ScottKenny1978 Colt wants both of your kidney's for any lump of metal they make.
Ok, the 601 is discontinued. I'm sad but, I understand. Can Brownells do custom build retro rifles?
You could build one yourself. NoDak Spud makes the uppers and lowers, some modern spec parts can substitute retro parts, and there are a few people making retro correct bits.
hopefully they will do small limited runs periodically in the future
2000 rifles is a limited run in my book!
The rifle was very popular, the sales just weren't there.
they were selling so fast we can keep them on the shelves so we discontinued the item.
So, you're saying it was popular with people who didn't actually buy one?
Sucks being poor huh....
Even more glad i got my brn10 now that they're leaving production, can't wait to get a brn180
Since the BRN 180 is a much more modern interpretation, I would like one in SBR .300BLK configuration. For Reasons.
if that charging handle was on the side it would be a perfect NV gun
When people see a $50 magazine they are like whoa....As a MPX owner I find this funny.
I fully agree everyone wants cheap magazines when the only good cheap magazines are for ARs or surplus. It really feels like that time a decade ago when people would buy the cheapest possible optic regardless of build quality.
It's very disappointing to see Brownells discontinue the Retro rifles. I really like my BRN-16A1 and would have liked to have added a BRN-601 and a XBRN177E2.
It’s beautiful but fuck me if it’s not expensive
I've got two of them for sale in 405.
Ian, i would love if you could do a presentation on the H&K G3A3. I don't mean Cetme or anything of the sort, i mean an actual G3A3. Really interested in the trigger mechanism and the bolt mechanics. Especially the trigger mechanism. Thank you in advance! Peace!
BRN 10 is short for Brenjamin Tennison
Wish I coulda bought one. The only to get one in SoCal I knew of was through one small shop but the guy was overcharging like crazy for these. It was like a 40% increase over MSRP
For the money ,id grab a Fulton Armory
Someone NEEDS to make a reproduction stg 44. If it was under $1500 I would buy one
Your second sentence is the reason your first sentence won't happen.
@@jic1 i know
My boss bought one of those from some collector, didn't get the chance to even see the sales floor. Lots of cool innovations at the time, however I take something with a 14-in barrel and adjustable stock and no carry handle or frontsight gas block(low profile). Drop the polly for something a bit less barrel interference enduring..
I would love to by one of the retro rifles, I remember walking through meijer and seeing them on the cover of some magazine and I wanted one instantly, that’s been a year or two. In the video the brownells guy talked about how they had met the demand and that no one else would buy one, but I 100% would, I turn 18 next summer, and I’m disappointed to hear they won’t be doing another run of these rifles, by the time my birthday comes around, the remaining stock is going to be sold, and I’ll have to resort to scouring the internet for old parts kits or Portuguese a1 police imports, hopefully I’ll find one of these on the resale market, becuase I know I won’t be able to find an actual a1, or any of the other originals.
I remember doing training at CFB Edmonton (canadian military base) and one of the training buildings had one of these on the walls with other AR-10 models with wooden furniture that I just really enjoyed the look of.
why is there a lot of old people walking in the background??
Idk because I have never been to a gun auction
Those people are enjoying the best free Gun Show in the country. Preview day at a big gun auction. This one is at Rock Island auction. You can see, HOLD and ask questions about the super Rare and common guns they are selling. It is fun to go and see old friends like Dan Hudson that came to this one.
days before the auction, customer can see/check in close what item/lot/batch will be auction next.
its a good chance to inspect the gun closely to see it quality and might find a hidden gem there.
They are retired and have the time to do things.
More reasons why I wish I could have gotten out of California. (I haven't been able to, yet)
And now I'll have to find one of these on the secondary market...dang.
Can you make a video about the m18 recoilless rifle please if you can find one .👍👍😀😀😀😃😃😁😁
I just wish their m16a1 barrel assemblies would be in stock on their website.
For real.
They had blem m16a1 barrels on sale just a few days ago. Might still be there in stock
If you have followed them they pretty much were
"Sold out " since they started the retro line I was pricing a A1 build a few months before they came out with their own clone. I suspect they pulled those parts for their own builds. I forgot my build cost I figured up through them but it was around 400-500 bucks to build a retro rifle minus receiver and furniture. I opted for used original furniture. I just find it funny the complete rifle is 1200 bucks but you used to be able to get the parts well under. Mind you the parts prices they already had profit included for them.
same
@@dustyak79 I saw some Brownells m16a1 clones at my local store for 999. I just figured well I can probably build one cheaper and I should learn how to assemble an AR if I want to start my own gunsmithing business one day
I really want their Vietnam m16
It's interesting how much the conversation about accuracy v. price in reproduction firearms mirrors scale model vehicles.
Ian, how much did that beautiful Portruguse AR10 go for at auction?
One of the real problems with an STG-44 (or any version thereof) is where do you buy 8mm kurz in the 21st century? The Brownells retros all shoot 5.56 or .308 so all they have to do is test with some common loads at both the bottom and top of the power spectrum to check the design.
Right now, 8mm Kurz is both more available and cheaper than 9x19.
@@ForgottenWeapons I have been personally corrected by Gun Jesus, himself. Yay, me.
Oh man, the ammo market in late 2020 really is like that though.. STG-44 in original caliber when?
I just remember the long wait to get my BRN-16A1. My favorite AR.
Reproduction STG44’s is a sore subject lol. Any word on that company that’s supposedly making them? I’d love to buy one but not till they’re actually being produced.
Tied up in law suites with the subcontractor who supposedly made the tooling and parts. The fate of a number of firearms in the past.
Ok, excellent interviewing.
Gun Jesus loves AR10, cool
damn you student loans! I hope the parts are still available in a few years. or demand comes back.
This sucks. Looks like I waited too long to pick up retro stuff from them...
In the background. we can see the french rifle Ian is thiking about buying.
Reproduction stgs, don't bring back the pain Mr. Forgotten Weapons.
Bill Gates in the purple shirt
ah yes, the Ben 10 as the youth know it. great gun, solid shape, 1/10