Was that the reason though? Ian mentioned some problems with the high pressure rounds, but it never actually got to that point and said it died due to a lawsuit.
@@alichi101 The original design, or the one modified to meet military spec? They never fixed the takedown issue from the original which was probably a requirement.
Would not fit. The law rocket however. Its base tube is the perfect size for a tennis ball. Had one once but my crack head cousin stole it. He never served, I did. God bless America.
Pump action grenade launchers have a strick requirement regarding the length of grenade, which means newer longer grenades are not suitable for these weapons.
They're actually pretty common in the law enforcement market, here is one made by Penn Arms: www.combinedsystems.com/product/p640-3cer-cerakoted-pump-multi-launcher-6-cyl-collapsing-stock-w-combo-rail/
@@gregsmall5939 Sadly, I think the number of people willing to pay $1500-plus to be able to fire three flares in rapid succession is vanishingly small.
@@gregsmall5939 P D's might be interested in them for riot duty. I'm not sure what the size the gas cartridges today are. But if they are still 37mm that would be one way to differentiate them from military weapons. At least in a legal situation. Truthfully the old Bloop Tube reminded me of the older tear gas launchers. It's just my opinion but the pump action looks like it would be far more user friendly in terms just carrying the damn thing. That revolving cylinder on the one that was adopted might work. But it's big. And yes they should have stuck to the Hi-Lo 40mm. At least in terms of chambering. I could see the idea behind being able to shoot flares if needed though. If they wanted to fiddle with the design (some things they did make sense) why not look at adapting say the Remington 1100 autoloader action. But only if it allowed a faster follow up shot without an increase in complexity. For sights a simple Red Dot optic that rotates on its mount for elevation. One question. Do they make 40mm Flash Bangs. If the US deploys troops into a combat situation I want them to win. If it takes killing the opposition fine. After all they had a choice and made it. But there are times when I could see it might be useful to take the opposition alive if possible. Intelligence for one thing. Another is why make a martyr out of somebody if killing them just helps create 2 or 3 new enemies.
@@mpetersen6 PDs already have access to 40mm pump-action launchers, if they want them: www.combinedsystems.com/product/p640-3cer-cerakoted-pump-multi-launcher-6-cyl-collapsing-stock-w-combo-rail/
"ok Marines, you get to pick one nice thing for yourself" Marine Corps: we demand STOVL in our next gen fighter that will ruin development even though the common chassis will have non interchangeable variants anyway.
I knew a Ranger that wanted to carry a 2" 12ga, because one blast will take out everyone in a room. If you let soldiers choose their own kit, they'll all be carrying Desert Eagles and Calicos.
Honestly, as soon as they had to redesign the whole thing for high pressure grenades it kind of defeated the purpose. Using the same grenades as the M203 makes the China Lake easy to resupply, especially in the field, since other soldiers can carry extra grenades for use in either their m203s or for the China Lake guy. It's a shame that the legal wrangling caused the whole project to fall apart in the end.
well, it was supposed to fire both high pressure and regular ones. It's just that, who would want to fire high pressure grenades? Anyone wants to lose a shoulder?
Bypass Vent the system to a muscle break **muzzle brake* that pushes the gun forward. That way you usw high power rounds, lose some max range and keep your shoulder. Yes ist a different design, but it's way easier in the ammunition department.
Yes, he should at least put the missing parts on it like the pistol grip and the stock. I mean they are common and available. The poor weapon looks totally naked.
The low loads have almost zero recoil. Try using high pressure it would explode into many bits, creating a hand held claymoore mine. Probably not a good idea...
Microzombie just goofing around in AFG I tried mounting a 320, on a 249 and 240. It only fit on one of them. (I think the 240) but even then it wouldn’t lock onto the rail.
Really too bad that they never produced them, and due to over-engineering too which is just dumb. I’d love to see the gun with a stock and grip though.
I know I mentioned it on Facebook page, but for those didn’t see it. At NO time we were planning to use HP rounds in an aluminum barrel. There was a conversation about HP rounds in the future and I even had a SS barrel on my desk, but just a conversation. Everything else is surprisingly accurate. For those that think I received information from someone else. I was the one reverse engineered and redesign this weapon system.
Love this gun , I worked for airtronic and was involved in this project, you did get a couple of things wrong about why we lengthened the feed system , but all in all a pretty good summery of the weapon.
@@Mr_T_Badger Yeah but its not as awesome as you might think. Gun is too light to handle a massive shotgun shot so its actually just scaled down ammo. But it sure is cool to think them putting some massive shotgun shells in them even tho thats not reality.
It’s a common trope in government agencies for everyone to stick their hand in the pot with their own two cents. It leads to severe scope creep because the government agencies are just a customer and the manufacturer has it in their best interest to just do everything that’s asked of them, no matter how pointless the feature is.
@@KinreeveNaku Did the Marine Corps actually *ask* for the ability to chamber high-pressure rounds? The video makes it seem like that was something Airtronic decided to do on their own.
It actually was kind of broke, in that the original design wasn't optimized for mass production, had a known issue in the trigger guard/takedown lever, and needed to be updated for modern use.
From the makers of "Mission Creep (TM)" try new and improved "Feature Creep (TM)!" Individual results may vary. May lead to presence patrols and/or being sent to find IEDs with your feet.
Engineer: “This system has practical limitations, but, within its parameters, will serve its purpose exceptionally well.” Pentagon: No! We want it to be and do everything! $10 billion later, the project is abandoned.
@@Dragonstorm1557GAMING Just photoshop the launcher with a beautiful black melonite finish and AR-15 furniture (or with an SB3 brace to spite the ATF/DOJ Despots>: )
To use it without the grip you put your thumb inside the screw hole, then press the trigger and pray to whoever you won't have to stitch it back. Alternatively rest it on your chest and bend a couple ribs
Check the Russian GM-94, it´s basically the realistic version of this, it has a pistol grip and a underbarrel wire stock. There is a cool 90s Ad of it on YT.
@@spiderjerusalem8284 More importantly, there's a booklet on it by two frequent guests of this channel: armamentresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/The-Russian-GM-94-Grenade-Launcher.pdf
John Stryker Myer has mentioned that one of his team members carried an experimental pump action grenade launcher on one of their MACV-SOG missions..... I've been wondering if it was a China Lake. Thanks for these videos Ian!
Hi, there's some not directly related but pretty cool grenade launcher from Poland, called Pallad M. It never goes beyond the prototype, but it's box-magazine fed semi-auto launcher, with delayed blow-back system I believe. Made by Zaklady Mechaniczne Tarnow, in Poland.
There is a word fir what Ean is describing when he comes to the point where the project falls apart: Feature creep. We want this and this, and then this, and this would be cool in addition....
I think the reason that there was never a full production run on the China Lake launcher is the same reason we don't see mass-issue of MGLs - having 10 men in a squad with M203s means you have 10 grenades ready-to-fire, as well as 10 rifles. Having one China-Lake or MGL means you have 9 rifles, and 1 grenade tube with 4-6 grenades. everyone having an underslung M203 or M320 results in more firepower overall for the squad. it also means a lucky shot wont take out your only grenade slinger.
I'll throw this at you sir and it is also a weapons platform the crayon munchers couldn't understand cause "gun to hard" Mr. Stoners 63&63A. Not taking anything away from this boom stick but the 63 is pure perfection in my humble opinion.
Is anybody else SUPER disappointed that he didn't show what it looks like with the stock and grip on? Only one prototype, and such ann obscure weapon, I wish I would get to see one with complete.
That story reminds me of the scene from "the Pentagon Wars" about the Bradley fighting vehicle development. "What if it had a big-ass cannon... oh! And amphibious!"
To be fair, the previous two USAr MICV programmes (MICV-65 and AIFV) had had cannon, the Germans were procuring the Marder, with cannon, to replace the HS.30, with cannon, the UK was developing the Warrior, with cannon, the French were developing the AMX-10P, with cannon, and the BMP had a much bigger cannon than anyone ever wanted to stick on the Bradley (and linking back into today's topic, the 73mm on the BMP is another High-Low Pressure system),
@@davidgillon2762 True, and, ultimately the Bradley was a pretty good platform by the time it was refined. Just a far cry from the "armored bus" concept. And, it was a development by mission-creep, not by intent. The movie was over the top, but Cary Elwes and Kelsey Grammer were hilarious.
@@IanCaine4728 It wasn't, though. It was intended, like the MICV and AIFV, to be an infantry fighting vehicle with a turreted autocannon, which was intended to allow the infantry to fight while mounted or dismounted, and to stay and contribute firepower to the infantry, rather than drop them off and leave (like an APC). There was no significant "mission creep" in the Bradley development; the closest there was was the reduction of size of the infantry squad (which was mandated by practical limits to the size of the vehicle), and it's adoption as a scout vehicle... which, fundamentally, was just replacing another tracked vehicle with the same intended armament, so that they didn't have to maintain a logistical base to support two vehicles that had near-identical capabilities.
@@bronco5334 Interesting. That's counter to everything I've ever read about the Bradley, I wonder if the book "the Pentagon Wars" skewed the record and just became the popular zeitgeist. Do you know of a good book or something that covers it's development? It's been awhile, but I know I read somewhere it was a replacement for the M59.
@@IanCaine4728 Oh, the book absolutely DID skew the record and misrepresent reality. The Chair Force chud that wrote the thing was a political hack, part of a group of morons that were convinced that weird minimalist designs were TeH bESteSt! Seriously, they wanted fighters with no radars or guns, they wanted 50 million M113 variants with various WW2-style weapons layouts, (and no modernization of infantry carriers beyond that), and they thought the 1950s-tech M48 tank with open, unprotected ammo stored all around the turret was more "survivable" than the M1 Abrams. No shit, they thought that strapping a 90mm gun onto an M113 in a casemate mount was TeH WeY oF THe FyUCheR!!! (and not just the less armored rendition of a 1930s era StuG that it, in fact, was) Why the hell anyone thought an airdale with absolutely no training or experience in mechanized ground warfare had ANYTHING of value to say about a tracked vehicle's merits is beyond me. Frankly, they were morons, who were seeking fame and notoriety by obstructing good projects.
Honestly if they'd stuck to low pressure grenades then I think it would have been better than the m32, seeing as how it isn't nearly as bulky and un ergonomic. It doesn't have the word modular in it so the army would have never adopted it, but I loved my grenade launcher and this would have been way cooler.
Just from how frequently i listen to the videos the folks at Forgotten Weapons produce, I have to admit Ian's voice is easily within the top ten voices I would to have as a standard for audio-books. There said my piece, have a good day.
The Watchmasters of The Korps would approve , but.. it lacks a bayonetlug !. How in The Emperor's name can we go into an assault without a bayonet !? ( upset gasmask noises..")
@@kommissarkillemall2848 Given the calibre, you could probably use the whole barrel as a bayonet socket. Ooh, that's an idea! Give the bayonet a lug that plugs the barrel, then issue a high-power blank cartridge so that you can shoot the whole assembly out of it.
@@kommissarkillemall2848 Well, we still do have shovels and I am sure if mechanicus would have ever finished this weapon they would have added the bayonet lugs and for sure some purity seals as well.
Why the hate towards Marines? They are the only branch that even shoots at 500yards for rifle qual. If anything they are most likely to o be hitting targets beyond that.
@@protoman1214: hence why I said your average marine. I’ve got no hate towards anyone. But it’s neither her nor there what people profess to hit. When under effective fire no one on a offensive or defensive action is hitting something past 300yards unless it’s an ambush. At 1500 yards bad guy Dave is going to be a faint silhouette and by the time he’s seen the first two splash is going to be out of there. The Mk19 is only effective because of its stability and ability to walk the rounds onto the target or saturate an area. Part of me thinks it’s fantastic. Hell, who needs a DMR if you had one of these, it would straight up deny 1000yards of fighting ground. But realistically it would need a bipod But it’s just a majorly iffy idea. As you’re already talking about a ton of must go kit per fireteam. So not only are you carrying spare 30lbs of Ammo. 30lbs of Spare belts. 15 lbs of AT. You’ve then got to share out the 15lbs ( 13 53mm shells) of Grenades too when everyone’s trying to return to fighting light. This seems like a specialist heavy weapons weapon or mechanised only unit. As most contact happens within 500 yards because the AK47 isn’t effective past 400yards It’s more of a rapidly deployable mortar then a squad weapon once its lobbing bad news past 1000 yards.
@@jugganaut33 all fair points. But you focused on a silly example. You can say the same thing about most firearms they use. Nobody is hitting targets at the max range of a m2 .50 cal. It's just a stat. I was just thrown off how you used Marines as an example when all the other branches don't shoot anything past 300yds in training. The implication of your comment was Marines don't deserve a weapon with that range
If it makes you feel any better, they probably would have gone with the Milkor design anyway because it is a proven platform that has been in production for decades.
@@jic1 The Milkor is 50% heavier (If the numbers I have are accurate), awkward to carry, and awkward to reload. Sure you can mag dump 6 grenades faster, but as an overall weapon the China Lake would be superior.
@@Crosshair84 It's always a matter of tradeoffs, and having a proven system with a larger magazine capacity may be worth the extra weight and bulk. And whether a revolver-style cylinder actually *is* less awkward to reload than gate loading is going to be down to a combination of personal preference, training and doctrine. I suppose the ability to top up the china lake between shots is useful; but, say the object is 'get 12 rounds on target as quickly as possible' - personally, I would have trouble predicting which design would be faster.
**casually pulls granade launcher from under the table**
three times in one video too.
I read this at the exact moment he first did it
The equivalent of Paul Harrell's range jacket?
excuse me, sir, but he took it out of his pocket
@@bobroberts2371 this fits so well I'm kinda impressed I hadn't already thought of it
"I want those! Give me china lakes!"
Don't we all, eh?
One? Shoot- I want to be able to give these out for Christmas.
CHYYYYYNA
Just imagine loading slugs into these bad boys.
The perfect Christmas gift.
@keith moore yes a BIG bullet
Feature creep sure seems to kill a lot of military projects. With some of these 'requirement' lists I keep expecting to hear 'and a puppy'.
Was that the reason though? Ian mentioned some problems with the high pressure rounds, but it never actually got to that point and said it died due to a lawsuit.
@@ebreshea1337 Without featurecreep it was pretty much ready to be produced
Look up the 1998 movie " The Pentagon Wars "
@@alichi101 The original design, or the one modified to meet military spec? They never fixed the takedown issue from the original which was probably a requirement.
@@bobroberts2371 funnily, in the original book (Reformer Challenge the Old Guard), the role wasn't as black and white. Look it up if you're interested
Best collections of rare firearms ecclectica:
1: Cody Center for the West
2: RIA
3: Ian's crotch
That sound you can hear is Jonathan Ferguson crying.
“He pulled an M2 browning out of his pants?! How did- where was he- what?”
He's like Wile E .Coyote.
@@jic1 *sob* I'm not crying. You're crying.
I bet his undies has ACME embroidered across the backside in golden script.
The universe couldn't let something as cool as the China Lake fade into history.
but then promptly did
@@staringgasmask people are still using them in the middle east 🤘
@@w0rloko To be fair I think they're using anything they can find out there.
but the courts can and did.
@Alexi Malenkov You're right. A lot of weapons are forgotten, and the China Lake isn't one of them.
Paint it blue and yellow, suddenly it shoots tennis balls for your dog.
@@onkelpappkov2666 just make it like a massive spring action airsoft gun
@TheRabbit _123 slibgshot rubber you say? Where is joerg sprave when you need him!
@@onkelpappkov2666 Nerf already makes them lol I own one
Would not fit. The law rocket however. Its base tube is the perfect size for a tennis ball. Had one once but my crack head cousin stole it. He never served, I did. God bless America.
I got that refference
I think the world needs more, not less, pump action grenade launchers.
Pump action grenade launchers have a strick requirement regarding the length of grenade, which means newer longer grenades are not suitable for these weapons.
@Viktor' 'Hyrst much easier to target republicans in their homes, "an enemy without manueverabilityis without victory" -Son of zoo probably
This comment thread went from 0 to 100 real quick
russian GM-94 smiles at you)
They're actually pretty common in the law enforcement market, here is one made by Penn Arms:
www.combinedsystems.com/product/p640-3cer-cerakoted-pump-multi-launcher-6-cyl-collapsing-stock-w-combo-rail/
“if it ain’t broke you haven’t tinkered enough”
Really the only thing that broke it was the high pressure rounds
That thing is a worthy representative of a "Metal Slug" Shotgun
In game they shoots full auto and multicaliber.
S H O T G U N !
I was just playing Metal Slug on my Wii last night, and you are 100% right. 👍😂
@@Joshua_N-A So essentially an autocannon
1 1/4 gauge?
Cough, cough, Brownells Retro China Lake 40mm Grenade Launcher, Cough.
Slow down skippy. Let's get a 37mm version first!😉
@@gregsmall5939 Sadly, I think the number of people willing to pay $1500-plus to be able to fire three flares in rapid succession is vanishingly small.
@@gregsmall5939
P D's might be interested in them for riot duty. I'm not sure what the size the gas cartridges today are. But if they are still 37mm that would be one way to differentiate them from military weapons. At least in a legal situation. Truthfully the old Bloop Tube reminded me of the older tear gas launchers.
It's just my opinion but the pump action looks like it would be far more user friendly in terms just carrying the damn thing. That revolving cylinder on the one that was adopted might work. But it's big. And yes they should have stuck to the Hi-Lo 40mm. At least in terms of chambering. I could see the idea behind being able to shoot flares if needed though. If they wanted to fiddle with the design (some things they did make sense) why not look at adapting say the Remington 1100 autoloader action. But only if it allowed a faster follow up shot without an increase in complexity. For sights a simple Red Dot optic that rotates on its mount for elevation.
One question. Do they make 40mm Flash Bangs. If the US deploys troops into a combat situation I want them to win. If it takes killing the opposition fine. After all they had a choice and made it. But there are times when I could see it might be useful to take the opposition alive if possible. Intelligence for one thing. Another is why make a martyr out of somebody if killing them just helps create 2 or 3 new enemies.
@@mpetersen6 PDs already have access to 40mm pump-action launchers, if they want them:
www.combinedsystems.com/product/p640-3cer-cerakoted-pump-multi-launcher-6-cyl-collapsing-stock-w-combo-rail/
@@jic1 speak for yourself! We also need rapid smoke deployment
This whole story comes back to the ancient wisdom of never letting the Corps do their own procurement.
Don't even let them procure the basics, such as glue, crayons and dip.
Navy should do the buying and Marine do the firing.
Mmmm HK416 anyone?
"ok Marines, you get to pick one nice thing for yourself"
Marine Corps: we demand STOVL in our next gen fighter that will ruin development even though the common chassis will have non interchangeable variants anyway.
I knew a Ranger that wanted to carry a 2" 12ga, because one blast will take out everyone in a room.
If you let soldiers choose their own kit, they'll all be carrying Desert Eagles and Calicos.
The space beneath any table Ian sits behind becomes a hammer-space from whence Ian can pull any firearm ever made
On the first day of Christmas, Ian gave to me...
*Two China lake grenade launchers in a pear tree!*
FIVE GARAND PINGS!
@@melbertdecamos7300 8 BELT BUCKLE GUNS.
@@kovacsnovak6745 9 "AH GERMANS!"
@@Skele7ronfuckyoutubeitsmyname 10 Borchardts banging
@@dave.of.the.forrest 11 enfeilds
would that stand up in court
Me: id like to make a grenade launcher
government:why?
Me:cuz there awesome
*They're
Drtbag39 couldn’t just go along with the joke?
@@cahilla54 Why do folks always get their panties in a twist when a mistake is corrected, especially when it's not even their own mistake?
Apply for a sporting exemption, you've got nothing to lose and everything to gain.
"Sure. Pay us large amounts of money and fill out a room full of paperwork please." Destructive device permits do exist.
"Because it was awesome." No further reason needed!
Honestly, as soon as they had to redesign the whole thing for high pressure grenades it kind of defeated the purpose. Using the same grenades as the M203 makes the China Lake easy to resupply, especially in the field, since other soldiers can carry extra grenades for use in either their m203s or for the China Lake guy.
It's a shame that the legal wrangling caused the whole project to fall apart in the end.
well, it was supposed to fire both high pressure and regular ones.
It's just that, who would want to fire high pressure grenades? Anyone wants to lose a shoulder?
Bypass Vent the system to a muscle break **muzzle brake* that pushes the gun forward. That way you usw high power rounds, lose some max range and keep your shoulder.
Yes ist a different design, but it's way easier in the ammunition department.
@@DeUser1337 "Muscle break"? You mean "muzzle brake"?
@@oktayyildirim2911 yes I wanted to write that.
Yes, he should at least put the missing parts on it like the pistol grip and the stock. I mean they are common and available. The poor weapon looks totally naked.
US Military: “We want to modernize the China Lake”
Airtronic: C H R O M E
“Everything’s chrome in the future”
Spongebob episode when Squidward use the time machine.
If it don't work, chrome it up!
haha
SHINY AND CHROME
This thing without any stock: _Now I am become dislocation, destroyer of wrists_
Yeah probably if you shot the high pressure 40mm out of it
The low loads have almost zero recoil. Try using high pressure it would explode into many bits, creating a hand held claymoore mine. Probably not a good idea...
@@stevejones1488 You just need to attach a shield and you have a terrifying melee/cqb weapon.
@@DeadNoob451 still have to deal with that recoil...
I wonder if this is california compliant
For a moment I thought they cut the stock off and tried to make this an underslung launcher for rifles.
@@peterclarke7240 M240.
Microzombie just goofing around in AFG I tried mounting a 320, on a 249 and 240.
It only fit on one of them. (I think the 240) but even then it wouldn’t lock onto the rail.
The marines were involved so that was probably suggested at some point
For what, an M107?
@@peterclarke7240 The M134? I'm sure you can attach it to a minigun if you try hard enough.
"This is a grenade launcher"
*Shows a Warhammer 40k bolter*
With the high pressure round... almost
Without the high pressure round, it's just a little somethin' for the local arbites to disperse crowds with.
Always thought those guns looked straight outta 40k
I was joking the other day that it looked like the Ogryn shotgun.
bolters are 75 cal
My brain kept reading "Atomic china lake"
Im like WTF mini fatman launcher?
That kind of exists already, check out the M-29 Davy Crockett nuclear recoiless rifle. ^_^
"You know that China Lake? This. This is what I want. I want this. Give me these. "
Really too bad that they never produced them, and due to over-engineering too which is just dumb. I’d love to see the gun with a stock and grip though.
Over-engineering and greed.
they should have started low pressure and put the high pressure off for the future.
"Over engineered "
So... every german gun 😂
More featurecreep than overengineering. Not as if they managed to make what they planned.
I wouldn’t call it over engineering, it’s more just scope creep
I know I mentioned it on Facebook page, but for those didn’t see it. At NO time we were planning to use HP rounds in an aluminum barrel. There was a conversation about HP rounds in the future and I even had a SS barrel on my desk, but just a conversation. Everything else is surprisingly accurate. For those that think I received information from someone else. I was the one reverse engineered and redesign this weapon system.
The thumbnail makes it look like the stapler size self-defense weapon out of South America.
Aye.
I only clicked on this because it read "China lake".
Love this gun , I worked for airtronic and was involved in this project, you did get a couple of things wrong about why we lengthened the feed system , but all in all a pretty good summery of the weapon.
@@catacombshadows it wasn't to accept the high pressure round, it was so it could fire some of the longer L.T.L. rounds .
"Yeah, but why?"
What part of "Because it's awesome" seems to be eluding you?
but the old one looks way cooler in my opinion, just like a giant shotgun, with a classic wooden grip
And I am told that apparently 40mm buckshot loads exist, which if you loaded them into a China Lake would make me a happy little lunatic.
@@Mr_T_Badger Yeah but its not as awesome as you might think. Gun is too light to handle a massive shotgun shot so its actually just scaled down ammo. But it sure is cool to think them putting some massive shotgun shells in them even tho thats not reality.
I’d like to see this with the AR furniture
@@thishonestgrifter - Agreed. That would look great.
@@Jebu911 so I’m told, which is kind of a pity. Rule of Cool however would make it all kinds of interesting if it worked.
To be honest, I would actually use the original China Lake.
Who wouldn’t?
I'll dual wield both please
@@DAEDRICDUKE1 bro same
@@DAEDRICDUKE1 they’re- they’re pump action...
@@toffee5266 not stopping him from dual wielding
I really want to see this with an M4 stock and pistol grip installed… Bad
Just imagine imagine a hilariously oversize mossberg 590a1 receiver barrel/pump/magazine tube on a standard size ar15 stock and pistol grip assembly
Should have left good enough alone, the stock and pistol grip is a stroke of genius, as is the rails, but everything else seems a little overboard
@keith moore yeah, that's a given, I meant on top of fixing the problems
It’s a common trope in government agencies for everyone to stick their hand in the pot with their own two cents. It leads to severe scope creep because the government agencies are just a customer and the manufacturer has it in their best interest to just do everything that’s asked of them, no matter how pointless the feature is.
@@KinreeveNaku Did the Marine Corps actually *ask* for the ability to chamber high-pressure rounds? The video makes it seem like that was something Airtronic decided to do on their own.
@@KinreeveNaku The M2 Bradley Fighting Vehicle comes to mind.
Some people mostly designers are what they call perfectionists. They dont know when to stop the improvements.
Can’t wait for when he gets his hands on a KS-23
Airtronics: "It ain't broke, let's fix it!"
🤦♂️
When people ask me what "stepping on your own dick means," I'm just going to link them this video.
It actually was kind of broke, in that the original design wasn't optimized for mass production, had a known issue in the trigger guard/takedown lever, and needed to be updated for modern use.
@@jic1 True, beyond the takedown issue, it most certainly would have needed some redesign for efficient mass production. You're right about that.
@NerfBeard ' not broken.... yet....
They somehow managed to make the same mistake as the Chinese, 40 years later: deleting the rear grip from the RPG-7.
This story made me cry. I wish that one day we will live in a perfect world where every kid owns a 40mm pump action grenade launcher.
Feature creep if I ever heard it.
From the makers of "Mission Creep (TM)" try new and improved "Feature Creep (TM)!"
Individual results may vary. May lead to presence patrols and/or being sent to find IEDs with your feet.
IanCaine4728 “if individual results *don’t* vary, money back guaranteed”
That's so cool - I'm amazed by how many one off prototypes with unique stories you can dig up, Ian. Keep up the great work!
You would think that'd be a series on its own.
Q: "Why do we need a modernized China Lake?"
A: 1:00
Engineer: “This system has practical limitations, but, within its parameters, will serve its purpose exceptionally well.”
Pentagon: No! We want it to be and do everything!
$10 billion later, the project is abandoned.
Not the case here. Airtronic fucked it up.
@@Norkans5 it really is such a bummer. I would love for a game like call of duty or battlefield to make it just so I can see the finished product
@@Dragonstorm1557GAMING Just photoshop the launcher with a beautiful black melonite finish and AR-15 furniture (or with an SB3 brace to spite the ATF/DOJ Despots>: )
Modular! Networked! Synergy!
"China Lake launcher was probably the coolest weapon used by SEALs in Vietnam."
-Cries in Stoner 63
Pew pew vs boom boom
My best guess is that Airtronic deliberately overengineered it enough to be able to kick the original guys out of the picture.
“It’s a totally different design!” - airtronics, probably
The fact that its a pump action grenade launcher with no grip makes it so chaoticly evil. By the time you see chrome, thats when you run away
would fit right into doom
To use it without the grip you put your thumb inside the screw hole, then press the trigger and pray to whoever you won't have to stitch it back.
Alternatively rest it on your chest and bend a couple ribs
Check the Russian GM-94, it´s basically the realistic version of this, it has a pistol grip and a underbarrel wire stock.
There is a cool 90s Ad of it on YT.
@@spiderjerusalem8284 More importantly, there's a booklet on it by two frequent guests of this channel: armamentresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/The-Russian-GM-94-Grenade-Launcher.pdf
"The prototype was hand built by a master machinist. But you're not gonna do 50 like that."
Yeah man i will take one each in 600 & 700 nitro express please. A million dollars? Yeah i might cancel that please
Last time i was this early Ho Chi Minh city was still called Saigon
It still is
@@JohnSmith-hd2tl by sore losers yeah
@@joy_gantic if you find pride in war then please participate yourself.
@@joy_gantic cope harder commie
@@vietlong114 cope? Agent Orange lost the war lol you still calling it Saigon after the US losing hard despite all of its advantages is the cope
John Stryker Myer has mentioned that one of his team members carried an experimental pump action grenade launcher on one of their MACV-SOG missions..... I've been wondering if it was a China Lake.
Thanks for these videos Ian!
Imagine the confidence boost when holding one of those in battle
Isnt this Men In Black Inventory??
And you need to be requiring 5 years of experience and higher pay grade to carry this weapon.
@@Joshua_N-A standard sidearm issue with this weapon is a cricket.
I just watched the China Lake video literally yesterday. I must have ESP or some shit.
04:45 - Ah, feature creep. The death knell of so many awesome things...
"Ooooooo shineeeyyyy" - US Marines upon seeing this
But can we melee with it?
The way you casually pull those grenade launchers from under the table, is just a tad man crush evoking...
They also make a light weight RPG that uses a carbon fiber launch tube.
Both China Lake and this look straight out of Warhammer 40k, something an Ogryn would carry
Typical Marine Corps recruiting targets strongly resemble Ogryn.
3 minutes and 21 comments already ?
Damn Gun Jesus draws a crowd
Everyone's welcome under this roof. Amen
Gary Pack Karen took your r now your name is gay
@@haselnussbraunschwarz1212 What ????????????????????
@@haselnussbraunschwarz1212 No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is straight out of star wars,should've been called as "Gunga Lake"
Behold, The GRENADE OBREZ
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine They indeed do! They have modified them as pistols and under barrel launchers.
Click-Click Big-Boom
I find it interesting you can still see the blue layout fluid on the top of the receiver. Very much a machine shop prototype.
Random retro gun :
American : I GOTTA PUT RAIL AND AR-15 STOCK ON THIS
YEAH?!? SO WHAT?!?! ;)
Hi, there's some not directly related but pretty cool grenade launcher from Poland, called Pallad M. It never goes beyond the prototype, but it's box-magazine fed semi-auto launcher, with delayed blow-back system I believe. Made by Zaklady Mechaniczne Tarnow, in Poland.
Didn't Will Smith shoot down a flying saucer with one of these?
I was about to say the same thing...
"Now that's what I'm talkin' about!"
8:19 bless you, whoever sneezed
We need bullpup weapons with this as underbarrel attachment for when we go out into space to fight the bugs.
7:35 Elk Grove. Neat. Looks like they have a building in Elgin still.
You may be cool, but you'll never be "Ian casually pulling a grenade launcher off his lap" cool
There is a word fir what Ean is describing when he comes to the point where the project falls apart: Feature creep. We want this and this, and then this, and this would be cool in addition....
Is that something in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?
[Lifts up grenade launcher]
I think the reason that there was never a full production run on the China Lake launcher is the same reason we don't see mass-issue of MGLs - having 10 men in a squad with M203s means you have 10 grenades ready-to-fire, as well as 10 rifles. Having one China-Lake or MGL means you have 9 rifles, and 1 grenade tube with 4-6 grenades.
everyone having an underslung M203 or M320 results in more firepower overall for the squad. it also means a lucky shot wont take out your only grenade slinger.
Every time I see a “China Lake” I think of it’s counterpart in Fallout New Vegas, along with the PGM Hecate 2.
Isn’t it called the "Grenade Rifle" in New Vegas?
@@charlesdemers1197 nah, it's just the "grenade launcher." The "grenade rifle" is based off the m79.
you mean holorifle, the energy weapon shotgun
@@Unit93JV also that, fuck Elijah though
@@Unit93JV ew, energy weapons.
I love the child-like adoration he has for the thing.
Nothing quite like a pump action thumper.
I'll throw this at you sir and it is also a weapons platform the crayon munchers couldn't understand cause "gun to hard" Mr. Stoners 63&63A. Not taking anything away from this boom stick but the 63 is pure perfection in my humble opinion.
Does this one slame fire? Cuz that would be an improvement.
If only
Real improvement would have been to copy a semi auto shot gun
This thing looks so 90's, it probably has blast processing instead.
@@maxterchefe Well, it was a semi-auto design that was adopted in the end.
@@jic1 yeah grenade revolver is cool but not grenade shotgun cool, personally preferance I guess
I was foolin' around in cad trying to do a pump action belt fed version without the undertube.
Modernized Vietnam War Grenade Launcher
"... because it's awesome." That pretty much sums it up. Also, Ian had the original china lake in his lap the whole time and why not right.
It never occurred to me that he could have another gun on his lap during ever video.
It's his emotional support China Lake.
Okay folks, cool it. All this talk of "big guns in Ian's lap" is starting to sound a little homoerotic. Children might be watching so....
Is anybody else SUPER disappointed that he didn't show what it looks like with the stock and grip on? Only one prototype, and such ann obscure weapon, I wish I would get to see one with complete.
The grenade launcher on the thumbnail looks like a Wii remote attachment
1:00 "because it was awesome" 👍
That story reminds me of the scene from "the Pentagon Wars" about the Bradley fighting vehicle development. "What if it had a big-ass cannon... oh! And amphibious!"
To be fair, the previous two USAr MICV programmes (MICV-65 and AIFV) had had cannon, the Germans were procuring the Marder, with cannon, to replace the HS.30, with cannon, the UK was developing the Warrior, with cannon, the French were developing the AMX-10P, with cannon, and the BMP had a much bigger cannon than anyone ever wanted to stick on the Bradley (and linking back into today's topic, the 73mm on the BMP is another High-Low Pressure system),
@@davidgillon2762 True, and, ultimately the Bradley was a pretty good platform by the time it was refined. Just a far cry from the "armored bus" concept. And, it was a development by mission-creep, not by intent. The movie was over the top, but Cary Elwes and Kelsey Grammer were hilarious.
@@IanCaine4728 It wasn't, though. It was intended, like the MICV and AIFV, to be an infantry fighting vehicle with a turreted autocannon, which was intended to allow the infantry to fight while mounted or dismounted, and to stay and contribute firepower to the infantry, rather than drop them off and leave (like an APC). There was no significant "mission creep" in the Bradley development; the closest there was was the reduction of size of the infantry squad (which was mandated by practical limits to the size of the vehicle), and it's adoption as a scout vehicle... which, fundamentally, was just replacing another tracked vehicle with the same intended armament, so that they didn't have to maintain a logistical base to support two vehicles that had near-identical capabilities.
@@bronco5334 Interesting. That's counter to everything I've ever read about the Bradley, I wonder if the book "the Pentagon Wars" skewed the record and just became the popular zeitgeist. Do you know of a good book or something that covers it's development? It's been awhile, but I know I read somewhere it was a replacement for the M59.
@@IanCaine4728 Oh, the book absolutely DID skew the record and misrepresent reality. The Chair Force chud that wrote the thing was a political hack, part of a group of morons that were convinced that weird minimalist designs were TeH bESteSt!
Seriously, they wanted fighters with no radars or guns, they wanted 50 million M113 variants with various WW2-style weapons layouts, (and no modernization of infantry carriers beyond that), and they thought the 1950s-tech M48 tank with open, unprotected ammo stored all around the turret was more "survivable" than the M1 Abrams. No shit, they thought that strapping a 90mm gun onto an M113 in a casemate mount was TeH WeY oF THe FyUCheR!!! (and not just the less armored rendition of a 1930s era StuG that it, in fact, was)
Why the hell anyone thought an airdale with absolutely no training or experience in mechanized ground warfare had ANYTHING of value to say about a tracked vehicle's merits is beyond me.
Frankly, they were morons, who were seeking fame and notoriety by obstructing good projects.
Secretly hoping this revives this idea from the dead with fewer... compromises
"Scope Creep" -- the enemy of "good enough, build it now".
Words can’t express how much I want that thing!
Best Vocational School project ever, I dont know who their instructor was but I nominate him for "Teacher Of The Year."
Honestly if they'd stuck to low pressure grenades then I think it would have been better than the m32, seeing as how it isn't nearly as bulky and un ergonomic. It doesn't have the word modular in it so the army would have never adopted it, but I loved my grenade launcher and this would have been way cooler.
Airtronic: you shall ride eternal. shiny and chrome.
Looks like something that a Space Marine from the Universe of WARHAMMER 40K would use to purge heretics and xenos. I love it.
I am sure someone could convince the Elbonians that one of these things firing high pressure grenades is the way to go.
and that they don't need a grenade machine gun when they can just buy this
And no stock for paratrooper carry
Gun Jesus, greetings from China Lake, CA!
**Doom marine breathing heavily noises**
T-800: *40mm pump action*
*loads round*
You can't do that....
T-800: *WRONG*
Combat Shotgun Explosive Shot attachment
Qlz-87 would be a more destructive fit
6:20 Just in case you want to mount a 8X scope on your grenade launcher.
Or alternatively, a small laser rangefinder.
I'm not ashamed to say it.
' i love grenade launchers' i want more.
On the future, everything is Chrome.
Just from how frequently i listen to the videos the folks at Forgotten Weapons produce, I have to admit Ian's voice is easily within the top ten voices I would to have as a standard for audio-books. There said my piece, have a good day.
This weapon Brings Honour to the Emperor.
Purge, yes?
@@Joshua_N-A More like Warhammer 40K. It looks like something a Space Marine would wield.
The Watchmasters of The Korps would approve , but.. it lacks a bayonetlug !. How in The Emperor's name can we go into an assault without a bayonet !? ( upset gasmask noises..")
@@kommissarkillemall2848 Given the calibre, you could probably use the whole barrel as a bayonet socket. Ooh, that's an idea! Give the bayonet a lug that plugs the barrel, then issue a high-power blank cartridge so that you can shoot the whole assembly out of it.
@@kommissarkillemall2848 Well, we still do have shovels and I am sure if mechanicus would have ever finished this weapon they would have added the bayonet lugs and for sure some purity seals as well.
Lol I love how he keeps pulling a grenade launcher out from under the table. Bahhahaah
Ah yes. When your average marine can’t hit something past 500yards ... you want a grenade launcher that can fire 1,500 yards.
Perfection.
Why the hate towards Marines? They are the only branch that even shoots at 500yards for rifle qual. If anything they are most likely to o be hitting targets beyond that.
It's an area-effect weapon. You don't actually have to hit your target, 'close enough' is fine.
@@protoman1214: hence why I said your average marine. I’ve got no hate towards anyone. But it’s neither her nor there what people profess to hit. When under effective fire no one on a offensive or defensive action is hitting something past 300yards unless it’s an ambush.
At 1500 yards bad guy Dave is going to be a faint silhouette and by the time he’s seen the first two splash is going to be out of there.
The Mk19 is only effective because of its stability and ability to walk the rounds onto the target or saturate an area.
Part of me thinks it’s fantastic. Hell, who needs a DMR if you had one of these, it would straight up deny 1000yards of fighting ground.
But realistically it would need a bipod
But it’s just a majorly iffy idea.
As you’re already talking about a ton of must go kit per fireteam. So not only are you carrying spare 30lbs of Ammo. 30lbs of Spare belts. 15 lbs of AT.
You’ve then got to share out the 15lbs ( 13 53mm shells) of Grenades too when everyone’s trying to return to fighting light.
This seems like a specialist heavy weapons weapon or mechanised only unit. As most contact happens within 500 yards because the AK47 isn’t effective past 400yards
It’s more of a rapidly deployable mortar then a squad weapon once its lobbing bad news past 1000 yards.
@@jugganaut33 all fair points. But you focused on a silly example. You can say the same thing about most firearms they use. Nobody is hitting targets at the max range of a m2 .50 cal. It's just a stat. I was just thrown off how you used Marines as an example when all the other branches don't shoot anything past 300yds in training. The implication of your comment was Marines don't deserve a weapon with that range
Brownell! This is your time to shine! Bring us a china lake!
*Need a shirt with one saying "because its awesome"*
But wait... There's more! Was not expecting this.
What a sweet concept. Too bad it was cut down in its prime by corporate BS
If it makes you feel any better, they probably would have gone with the Milkor design anyway because it is a proven platform that has been in production for decades.
@@jic1 I dunno, this is less clunky. Sure, you lose 2 rounds of ammo, but this is a lot less bulky.
@@jic1 The Milkor is 50% heavier (If the numbers I have are accurate), awkward to carry, and awkward to reload. Sure you can mag dump 6 grenades faster, but as an overall weapon the China Lake would be superior.
@@Crosshair84 It's always a matter of tradeoffs, and having a proven system with a larger magazine capacity may be worth the extra weight and bulk. And whether a revolver-style cylinder actually *is* less awkward to reload than gate loading is going to be down to a combination of personal preference, training and doctrine. I suppose the ability to top up the china lake between shots is useful; but, say the object is 'get 12 rounds on target as quickly as possible' - personally, I would have trouble predicting which design would be faster.