I wasn't ever a Camaro fan but I hadn't ever been in one. Jumped in a one-owner 45kile 5th gen last month just to see if the visibility was as bad as I kept hearing about, and ended up liking it so much I bought it.
Always remember to take reviews and opinions with a grain of salt. Not everyone wants or enjoys the same things. People tend to harp on some things and blow them out of proportion. It’s important to experience things for yourself and form your own opinion. The driving experience I have in my ‘15 1LE absolutely FAR outweighs having some hindered outward visibility when looking towards your blind spots.
I was the *exact* opposite. I sat in a 2020 ZL1 for the same reason, to see if the visibility was bad as people say and it was *SO* bad that I completely changed my mind on wanting a Camaro, which is unfortunate because I had my heart set on a new 1SS 1LE track package.. the rear right blind spot is so bad, it's literally dangerous to change lanes in.. and that's definitely not just something you get used to over time, like people try to say. I don't know if the previous gen is better or not..
@@Jcastro9444 Sit in one.. it's *WORSE* than people say, at least in a 2020+ model. I the right rear blind spot is so big, it's dangerous to change lanes in.. I wanted a 1LE so bad.. and still do but that's completely deterred me.
@@Jcastro9444 my philosophy when I rented one for a week was to just drive faster. You can't accidentally merge into someone if everyone's behind you lol
I've been watching you two for years, but I just noticed today how good your audio leveling is - rapidly switching back and forth between drivers, one's not too loud or too quiet, it makes the experience so much easier to just keep watching. A+
Wow. Someone actually threw a Camaro SS 1LE into the euro sports car ring! Bout damn time!! Love my 2023 SS 1LE! P.S. I used to be a e46 and e92 owner and the SS 1LE blows the doors off the both of those cars!
was your e92 an m3? I doubt your ss would blow the doors off of an e92 m3, though it might be a tinnnny bit fast but so close that traction and driving skill would likely be the deciding factor
@thomasmurphy3570 It was a 2012 M3 DCT with no competition pkg. I did multiple track days with it too. 414hp stock and both cars are about the same weight.. The e92 M3 was also an unreliable shit box. Throttle body actuators went at 65k, and 2 coils went at 70k had to get it towed to an indy shop, vacuum pump at 71k. You can be a bmw fan boy all you want, I'm done with em and never looking back! 😏
@@xtrythis1170 You had probably one of the most notoriously unreliable models they ever built. The newer models don't have a significant portion of the issues you mentioned.
I love the old M2, especially the M2C. The new Supra in a manual is a hell of a car too, I see a lot of them on the track when I go and they can put down some fast lap times, and the ones I see with aero put down some nasty times. Not a fan of the front nose bump but I do love the side and rear profile. They just look great. All that said and done, I do own a 2023 2SS 1LE in a manual, and before that I owned a 2017 2SS/M6, both of them being bought new. I loved my old SS so much that I wanted to get (in my eyes) the best N/A sports car with a manual out there. I drive on track quite a bit as well so having a car that I have to do absolutely nothing for (I do change out the brake fluid though) is huge for me, and I never worry about reliability or over heating when on track. The eLSD, mag ride, short throw manual transmission, all the different performance traction modes, it makes one hell of a car and it's sad that it's going away. I always appreciate seeing the SS 1LE in more videos as it's an amazing car, and i'm glad the Supra was able to get the manual transmission it oh so definitely deserved. The last few years have been great for cars!
@@jmmch3358 I debated going for a ZL1 instead of my SS but keeping the N/A motor was big to me, on top of there being quite a few tracks in my area that would be a handful with the ZL1 power. Amazing car though! My coworker has a ZL1 1LE and he loves it but funny enough, he's looking at getting an SS 1LE on top of it as he misses the lower power and less insane suspension lol, save the ZL1 1LE for the track days. Can't go wrong in either direction in my mind, hell I want to try out a turbo 4 1LE at some point just because of the weight, should be Supra weight levels in an alpha chassis car and that seems like a hell of a time (Supra would feel better hands down, but still curious, especially for a 30k car!)
@@tonspike track consumables on a C7 GS are almost double that of the SS1LE, I was close to grabbing one of not for that lol Though you are right, the C7GS is probably the best modern N/A car with a manual now that I think about it!
@@TheFifthString How is that possible? Sure, the C7 runs 335s vs 305s in the rear, but being nearly 300 lbs lighter means less chassis wear overall so longer intervals for brakes/pads/suspension components etc.
Paul's opinion of the Camaro is definitely in the minority. Its actually a handling machine. When it came out in 2017 (the SS 1LE), it was praised unanimously by the like of Randy Pobst, Car and Driver, etc for its handling dynamics and steering feel when compared to the F82 M4. The base Camaro SS puts down the same lap times as a base F82 and the 1LE absolutely murders the F82 on any road course, stock for stock, while providing better steering feel and a more raw chassis AND with better ride quality. The only problem here its that its dated. But even with the new Alpha 2 stuff, such as the CT5V BW, it handles better and rides better than the current M5. Go to any HPDE and you will likely see a 6th gen Camaro. They keep up with GT4s and 991 GT3s at half the cost.
Came here to say the same thing. I don't understand his take. He says the car doesn't know what it wants to be because it is good at everything? That's funny. Porsche has made a killing producing cars that have the same formula. Great handlers. Great straight line speed. Plus the ability to cruise comfortably. The difference is, the Camaro is American and is a lot cheaper than most of the cars it competes with in terms of performance (directly and indirectly). His Euro snob appeal was turned all the way up on this one.
I haven't driven the Supra or the M2, but I went from a Fiesta ST to a BRZ to a Camaro SS1LE and I don't think the car drove or felt like a heavy car whatsoever. The 6th gen 1LE feels like a proper sports car, not a muscle car that will corner. It was an insane leap up from my previous cars. It felt worth every $$ and I felt zero desire to modify it, which never happens for me in a car. I really only noticed the weight when trying to accelerate quickly and you're just a little too low in the revs. Like you're in 3rd at 3000 and need to be in 2nd or something along those lines. I always sneered at muscle cars because I care more about driving dynamics than power. It shocked me when I test drove it and then continued to amaze me the longer I owned it. Nearly everything outside of the visibility and the annoying electronic parking brake...is perfect. Exhaust/engine sound is just right, I had zero desire to change the exhaust. No drone at all either. Best manual trans I've used, clutch had great feel as well. Brakes were absolutely insane, steering while not a ton of feel is very precise and direct. You never feel like you're guessing what the car is going to do. You could tell when it was going to let go and it was so predictable to reign it in when necessary. It rode great as well, touring and even sport were fine for daily driving on good roads. My biggest complaint was the bunker style visibility made it a touch sketchy to daily and it spoiled a lot of the fun. It's a big wide car and because you can't see well, you're always guessing where the edges are. Spoils backroad driving for me... I have a 2020 ND Miata recaro package now and sometimes I think the Camaro communicated better than this does. I miss the V8 power and sound, but I have more fun in the Miata at sane speeds. The Camaro just begs you to do 100 mph everywhere you go and the limits are so so high, it's not that exciting. I got rid of it because I couldn't stop doing Mexico speeds all the time, it's not the car you want if you lack self control lol Running costs for a daily were pretty brutal as well, tires don't last long if you're an ape like me and they're at minimum $1500 to replace. But overall it's going to become a collector car and a cult classic if it isn't one already. It's hard to get much better than the 1LE without spending twice the money.
@@NDEEZMiata well put. The comparison to the Miata had been made before, with people saying it feels like a big Miata. Even the base SS is a damn good sports car. For a HPDE build, I'd actually start with the base SS over a 1LE because I'd replace literally all the 1LE bits(including the elsd) anyway. Only thing lacking in the non 1LE SS is PTM.
Yeah, i don't know how one can say a car with it's manufacturer openly warranting track use, comes out of the box ready for the track use with track tires and effectively a big brake kit, doesn't know what it wants to be. The Camaro has always been a road racing inspired car.
I love that they listened and built the supra manual and i hope it sells, but the camaro ss 1le with a stick is the move. V8 noise, a good 6 speed, magnaride, and alpha platform handling...yes, please.
Honestly, I've driven the Supra on a road trip from LA to San Fran to Sacremento and back and it was absolutely great fun. It really is a great sports car, you'll be surprised how low it is, how small it is and actually how beautiful it looks in real life. The only gripe was the luggage space, but it's a 2 seater sports car. Genuinely drive it first before dismissing it.
Besides the Asian RICE fake vents, buffeting windows when rolled down, little cargo space, and the need to be 5’10” or shorter to actually be comfortable inside, then yeah, it’s a good daily car…🤣
@JacesOwnWorld Toyota designed it so you can mod the vents, there are hacks to stop the buffering, have a daily driver ready if you need the space, and you get shorter as you age so it's like a pre-order for tall people.
Just got a 2023 2SS last week, the visibility isn’t that bad, you get used to it pretty quickly . The rear view camera on the mirror is a huge plus, gives you a great view out the back. Love the sound and love the power.
What an incredible line up of cars! I absolutely love this segment of sports cars that aren’t astronomically expensive, but all truly special in their own flavor. Can’t go wrong with any of them. Can vouch for the Camaro though, really love my 6th gen ZL1. The chassis handles so well and the big V8 has unbeatable character and the best soundtrack. So sad to see Camaro getting phased out at GM.
Don't be sad. The value of your car went up the minute GM announced it's imminent demise. Give GM credit for continuing to build manual cars, Corvette excepted. Audi and BMW let the enthusiasts know they don't care about them, with the exception of the M car offerings.
@@maverickphantom005 ha, I didn’t buy it to save gas! If you drive it economically it will get as high as 28mpg, but on the track you can expect figures of 3, lol
Great video, as always! When the Supra came out, I wasn't a fan. I wasn't too bothered by the lack of manual since I'm used to cars with DCTs, but the ZF8 gave me pause. Eventually, I saw one in person and the looks grew on me quickly. I eventually got around to trying one for a day and loved the way it drove. Now, there's a manual option. For my money and tastes (subjective, of course), there's not a better/more complete sports car package for anything near the price. I'm glad you guys always showed the Supra the love it deserved and didn't overly criticize the BMW partnership. If two manufacturers come together to make a fun ICE sports car in the age of hybrid/electric that's a blast to drive, who cares? I'm the proud owner of a 2023 Supra and couldn't be happier with it!
Exactly. Well said. These biased fanboys seriously need to get over it. Developmental collaborations aren't new. They just aren't usually as visible and influential. As they say, haters are gonna hate. I have a 2021 supra. I'd love to have the manual.
The way I see it is you're getting a great BMW sports car for less money. Maybe stick a Toyota badge on a Mercedes G wagon next. My gripe is that I think Toyota Safety Sense is better than what BMW has, oh well.
I just can't get over the exterior styling of the supra. Didn't care for it when it came out and it hasn't grown on me since. It's as if it's trying too hard to look futuristic or something. In my humble subjective opinion, the m2 is a better looking car. But to each his own.
21’ SS 1LE 6spd owner. I have never been a camaro guy, I’ve always been an import guy but the 1LE 6spd is just so good and a manual transmission is very hard to find now.
The best part of owning a camaro is pushing it to the limits and you would be wow how can this car do this! Most people dont even know how underrated a camaro is until they drive . Push the camaro to the limits in corners and you will be in love instantly. Its a confidence inspiring car.
Take a 90 degree turn at 70 mph and you'll love it even more. Can't figure out what they did with it (engineers will not disclose that), but I was slowing down from 140mph and turned last minute at above 70 mph, exactly 90 degrees, and it just turned. I was sideways for a slight bit, then right back up at 140 mph going straight.
I’ve never in my life heard an auto journalist or car enthusiast refer to an Alpha Chassis-ied Camaro as “lacking cohesion” and “unsorted”. I mean, it should have had a manual but I don’t think the Camaro is confused in the least by what it is…that would be the reviewer.
Considering the price of the M2, I would rather have seen the Camaro ZL1 in the comparison rather than the SS. The ZL1 is much, much closer in price to the M2. Of the sixth gen Camaros, I think the ZL1 1LE will be the model future car collectors will be looking for.
Have you driven a ZL1 1LE? It has the worst ride of any car I have ever driven. Even as a track day special, it is bad. You better have a lot of track days and very few street days to make it worthwhile. But yeah, collectors will go for them because they are the fastest and most rare. And collectors don't drive them anyway. I much prefer a regular 1LE or ZL1.
I made a change from my M2 comp to ZL1 1LE during Covid and it’s shocking how close of prices they are (M2 was 55k, ZL1 was 58k). The Camaro is literally a bargain for the amount of performance you get as well
They definitely need a Blackwing! With the turbos in the 4BW it would have been a better matchup here and it's right up their alley. Useable daily and can dance and has a stick. What's not to like?
@@mikea5205 I like the boxy aspects of it, but it doesn't gel well with the other features of the exterior. It's like they were afraid to go full box and just did a weird mish mash.
I have the 2021 Camaro SS 1LE. It is by far the best bang for the buck. I have the 6 speed, and that makes it even better. The BMW is very nice,, but very $$$$$$. The Supra is too small and cramped. For the money, V8, and looks, I will keep my SS 1LE....
Great car. I couldn't deal with the roofline and crampness inside. Nor the lack of android auto. So I went 2SS 1LE M6 Camaro. No regrets. Maybe the MKVI Supra will fix it's shortcomings for me.
Yes I know my bias is screaming from my profile pic, but the Supra is truly under appreciated at this price point. I love and respect the Camaro, the other two cars can't touch it in sound and sheer brutality. And the old M2 was an incredible car (I almost bought one). But the Supra can pull off light(ish) car handling, fast straight line pulls, and then be comfortable and get 32 miles to the gallon when you're bored on the highway. It's honestly the first car I've owned where when I consider what car I want next, I just come back to another Supra.
This review reminds me of the Boss Mustang, E92 M3, and 1M comparo from years ago. IMO BMW built the 1M and then forgot everything they learned with each ensuing M2 variant. The Hommage 2002 is where the M2 should have gone stylistically. I think that’s where this shade of blue comes from. The Supra just reminds me of a 981 or 982 Cayman S. That’s a good thing.
I just bought a 2023 Camaro 2SS 1LE, and I don't think Paul pushed that car hard enough. It's a brilliant chassis that takes a bit more effort to shine. I didn't get the older M2 comp, basically due to PTM, and this being a track day car.
You are correct. The magic of the Camaro is at the limit, unless you're driving 180 mph, I can testify that brakes feel like melted marshmallows (Brembo). Other than that it's quite a wonderful car.
@@danielmembrillo6472ummm... depends. If you have many straight roads to explore, then automatic, but if you're on a twisty, then manual. It's all up to where you use it. I kept my automatic above 160 mph 80% of the time due to where I lived then, while when moving on East coast got the manual.
@@maverickphantom005 We live about 45 mins from Blue Ridge, if you are referencing the Blue Ridge MTNs in Georgia. I would never opt for the automatic in the 1LE when you have the Tremec option available. Especially with rev match. Maybe if you were in traffic, but then why get the 1LE. It's a gem of a tranny.
I've had my '20 1SS 1LE 6M Shadow Grey Metallic for 8 months now, and its always a blast. Since I've bought the car, I've had so many compliments from random people in traffic, parking lots, and in the neighborhood. Parents getting into their crossovers with their kids have mentioned they love the color, kids irding their bikes have said "I like your car, mister", random people in traffic giving thumbs up or other car-guys just having fun on the highway together. There's been nothing but good times with it. It has shortcomings, like the trunk-opening. I doubt I'll get a 24-pack of water into it easily but I did get a 2-drawer milwaukee packout crate with their slim organizer on top IN my trunk currently to hold my tools since I don't have the garage space. I can still put all the groceries I typically need within the trunk anyway. Backseats are nothing cosmetic, dead weight and maybe the rear window is pretty narrow and I hace to sometimes learn forward to see the traffic light clearly when stopped at a traffic light, I don't have blind spot assist, lane keep etc (not that I need/want them but the Mustang GT comes with it stock even on the base V8 option), But god damn do so many random people enjoy the looks and sounds of it, even family members that have 0 interest in cars whatsoever. I would gladly buy another 6th Gen 1LE before any other car.
You don’t have to lie. No one is gonna compliment a stock grey ‘20 Camaro. Since Camaros are everywhere and this gen has been around for too long, that is like complimenting someone for having an old iphone. I call MADE-UP!
On MT the '16 Camaro SS beat the '16 BMW M4. On R&T the '19 Camaro SS1LE beat the same year BMW M2 Competition. MT has praised the Camaro SS1LE to be better than any non Shelby Mustang including the Mach 1, also commented that the SS1LE was better than the new Supra and 400 Z.
1SS 1LE is the best value sports car experience one can get. 1SS is the best daily powerful cars for the money one can get. Owned 3 Mustangs, 3 Camaro SS (all 6th gen), and a Challenger R/T (best road trip car with personality).
As a ‘21 M3 owner I’m just over the moon that BMW decided to make a M2 this unsightly from the front. Makes the 3 and 4 look positively refined next to it.
@@minigiant8998 lol my dealer (have a G87 on order) called me literally today to ask if I wanted to put in a g80 order instead because they have no waitlist 🤣 M2 waitlist is 2+ years. Used g80 prices are dropping like rocks too
Weird comment they made about "the BMW M2 having immediacy on the throttle 'because it's a turbo'." It's the other way around normally where you are waiting for pressure to build, so it's a really odd thing to say.
Yes, waiting for response is often the case, but in upper RPM on the M2, the turbos are spooled and there's no waiting. From a stop or at low RPM, you're relying on the straight six, which still has decent power - but not the same immediacy. Thanks for watching!
As the owner of a M6 1LE, I just congratulate myself more of my choice at any of these reviews 1LE vs Whatever. What an amazing car for the money. I don't care if it's a bit slower than this or that, I could have grabbed 2 1LEs for the price of 1 M2 Comp or Supra 😂😂
Been watching EverydayDriver for a very long time. They do informative and balanced reviews. On this comparison though, I think they left some key information out. I don't think they gave the Camaro a very fair shake in terms of what it stands for. The SS 1LE is basically an out of the box streetable track car. They failed to mention quite a few pertinent facts about it: comes with Oil cooler, Diff cooler, Aux Radiator, Transmission cooler, pretty trick eLSD, BBK, 220 treadwear tires, and the magneRide ( which they mentioned). This car is designed to take a beating on the track. I've had mine for 1 year now, and actually traded in my bmw M2C for it. I haven't driven the Supra or the new G87 M2 but I didn't like the handling characteristics of the previous M2C at all, It was quite fidgety on track and had a fairly harsh suspension on street (I am assuming the G87 will be similar although it does seem to have adaptive dampers this time around). If I wanted to get it as confidence inspiring as the Camaro I had to upgrade to an aftermarket suspension bits/coils. The drivetrain/engine combination of BMW would be superior (DCT/Twin turbo I-6) as I can tell based on my straight away speeds on track but the Camaro's handling is far more superior and stable at higher speeds. The long wheel base is actually an advantage not a disadvantage when on track. If you compare the trackability of the Supra to the Camaro, from what I hear, the Supras need to be modified so they can handle consistent track use since they don't have some of the additional cooling and braking capability required for consistent track use. Cant comment on the G87 but I will hold my judgement until I get to drive on track. The carbon buckets on the G87 look amazing but once optioned with this feature it is going to be at least 50% more pricy than the Camaro. Something to think about I guess...
I'll take the Supra all day! Wait.... I did! I test drove a lot of cars and the Supra is awesome. Had a Porsche 911 S picked out and last minute, got the Supra. Saved 80k and love it!
I raced a 2016 camaro ss a8 full track build with aero and it was amazing. Raced it for 4 years and it became unbeatable and well known in the time attack world. Now I race a c7 z06 manual and it's obviously way faster but the camaro was extremely capable chassis. Drove a 2023 a10 ss 1le and it felt the same just trans wasn't as good for serious track work. For all the issues with a8 trans it was better in manual mode and wasn't shortcomings were known. Best race car for the money hands down
The new M2 is a total package if one is looking for a daily driver beast. It’s extremely usable with having amazing amount of usable space, comfort, and trunk space, yet have over 450hp, 6 speed, rear wheel drive that’s extremely controllable in high speed, thanks to BMW genius suspension engineering. I honestly can’t think of another car at this price range that does everything so damn well.
A performance pack mustang basically does all of that and costs 30k less. Most of their complaints about space, comfort, and trunk space are solved by the mustang. Chassis isn't quite as good as the camaro's but with performance pack is pretty damn close and you're still saving a ton of money.
@@Hapkin G87 is a lot more confident in corners when pushed hard, where as F87 dances and can get you in trouble real fast. And if you like dancing tails, simply adjust traction control to your liking. Also, G87 starts at $62k, which is a bargain and not that far away from low mileage used F87 comp, with an outdated and cheap looking interior from 10 years ago! That’s where we spend all our time driving.
@@arymonem agree with the front end cornering with more confidence in he new one but with a simple alignment and camber plates, I prefer my M2CS cornering to my buddies G8* M3C which just feels bloated and heavy in the twisties. I haven't driven the M2 yet but looking forward to it. I can't imagine it feels as light and darty, agile and fun as my M2CS. The new one is 3800ish vs 3400ish in my M2CS manual with CCB'S. Very significant difference. Imho, interior in F8* is going to age better over time (10+ years) than G8* in part because of having really slick analog gauges, and clean unfussy almost minimalist styling. I agree that G8* interior is much nicer in terms of fit and finish and materials but it is dominated by a screen that will age poorly. Lastly, and I say this with confidence, the exterior of F87 will easily age better than the pig like line dominant, proportionally weird G8* M2.
@@Hapkin I have driven my brothers M4 G82 a bit in the twisty roads, and I do agree that it feels large and some what heavy ( none the less super capable). However, M2 somehow feels different in a sense where I don’t feel it being heavy at all. And when pushed hard, it just asks for more without loosing composure! Regardless, they are all fun cars and super enjoyable for every owner.
Bought a MT Supra about 7 months ago. It's been amazing and I love every minute. One thing that's on the table though is removing the clutch delay valve.
I'm starting to think I should race out and by a manual fire breathing Supra before such things are gone. Pretty soon it will be nothing but electric and hybrid autos with no driver feel. This very well may be the last generation of manual gas powered sports cars.
@bearclaw5115 they say it's there to prevent drive train shock, but if you know how to drive a manual you already know how. I can't speak for the vagueness as it felt okay for me when it was biting.
@jeffk464 that was my thought as well. I was concerned when I heard the Supra was a collaboration with BMW. Did a lot of research into it and found out how similar the b58 is with the 2jz and that Toyota had a lot more hands on the car than they are given credit for. I told myself if a MT was released and it was decent I'd get one for the same reason you mentioned. There is already speculation the next gen will be hybrid at least, maybe full EV. At that point it's a soulless rocket. It's fast but no personality. I want to hear the engine roaring up to redline, turbo flutter and burbles when you left off.
I removed the cdv on my OG M2 and it made a really big difference! Take off is more predictable from 1st gear and now I can shift way faster and it just grabs. I highly recommend it 👌 it was way easier than I anticipated too!
I missed you two coming together and hearing each others final picks at end. And having some final discussions before video ends. Please, don’t get rid of that.
I'm a bit confused by the take on the Camaro. Perhaps it shines more when at a track vs backroad. I don't see the visibilty as an issue if one learns how to properly use mirrors. Though a helmet won't fit through the window (have to open the door) was something. Overall though the M2 & Supra are more traditional "sports cars" and i think the Camaro has become a hybrid - which in it's own right should het recognition instead of redicule. Though, if BMW actually put together an attractive M2, not an eraser thats had the corners worn down it would easily be a favorite with the price being a hangup for some.
@@andyd4684 It's certainly not as 'pretty' as the previous gen in my opinion (obviously looks are subjective to the viewer and some might love the new M2). I think the M2C was a stunning looking car, perfect proportions, lovely swoopy bulging curves.
They Guy in the blue shirt has no idea what he’s taking about, says the Camaro doesn’t like to turn or go in a straight like like what the hell is he talking about
Yeah these guy's are some dumbasses. Claiming that a GEN6 Camaro SS 1LE feels like a 4,500 lb car is a full retard statement. So it feels like it weighs like a Charger Hellfat? With comments like that I can't take this channel seriously. That would be like claiming an EVO VIII feels like a 4,200 lb car or something. BS, your just trying to get a point about the M2 feeling light across, and insulting the 1LE to do so. I guess if the M2 does that to the 1LE then the M2 must feel like a 2,800 lb car? A GEN6 Camaro SS 1LE feels anything but overweight unless you're used to miata's, EG hatchbacks, stripped Foxbodys, and C5/C6 Z06's. A GEN6 1SS 1LE M6 car is in the 3,730 lb range. Yes the 10L80 will add a little weight. Very few cars costing 6 digits will hang with a GEN6 SS 1LE on a road littered with aggressive turns.
I think it’s a great looking car, no matter the color or the trend of car journalists opinions. BMW will sell many, prob more than both the 1LE and Supra combined.
Me too. I think it's one of the best looking cars out right now. It's not perfect obviously. I would try to paint the bottom of the front opening body color maybe. It's also a bit pricey and still no ventilated seats. Also to get the upgraded seats and any options really adds up quick.
Thanks again guys, great reviews. I think that a better play is a used BMW from a few generations ago even though you give up some horsepower - lighter, more tactile steering, smaller, better.
The alpha chassis and lt1 engine is tried and true, and one of the greatest chassis of all time. It's by far the better track car, the most comfortable, naturally aspirated, and the capabilities it has is amongst super cars. Oh and it's cheaper lol
I would have liked to see a track comparison as well - my thoughts were the same. Supra best on backroads but 1LE best on track with M2 being in the middle and doing both well.
You guys are telepathic because I've literally considered buying one of these three cars for myself since they are semi value based performance manual cars!
Same, aside from the M2. 1LE Camaro and 6 speed Supra are my top 2 options but the visibility is so bad in the Camaro that I may have changed my mind on it.. The rear passenger side blind spot is so bad, it's dangerous to change lanes in, even looking over your shoulder. Definitely sit in one and decide for yourself but if you think you can handle it, that's definitely the car I would choose between those 3.
@@hhaste I'm thinking the Supra doesn't have great visibility either. The new cars let you know is someone is in your blindspot. The other thing is if you have a huge blindspot in your mirrors you don't have them adjusted properly.
@@hhasteI change lanes in my 6th gen camaro SS without blind spot assistance all the time. Try it out again except this time adjust your mirrors properly. If you have your mirrors set to where you can just see the edge of your quarter panel in the mirror, you set it wrong. Mirrors are supposed to be set to just past where you can’t see your quarter panel anymore. Once you set it that way it will be like you’re watching traffic through a wide screen TV. As they start to disappear from your rear view mirror they will start to appear in your side mirror.
I found myself cross-shopping these cars. I started at the Supra and I liked it, but liked the corvette more. Wouldn't a preowned 7th gen do everything this does, better? I then decided I needed a back seat because I have a young child and shuttling her around is a big part of my life now so it was between the New M2, the Camaro 2ss 1le, and even the ct4vblackwing. Using it as the daily was a big factor. The camaro won. The price of purchase and upkeep I'm guessing would be the best. It's the simplest one that does the most. In my opinion it also is the one with the most character out of the box.
Todd on the M2's styling is really succinct with his "catastrophically ugly", then Paul spends several describing why. I love the dichotomy of these two fantastic hosts!
10 years ago, me and my best friend were one of those high schoolers who bashed on American cars, but after the 6th gen Mustang and Camaro came out, we had to change our minds. I mean, if you think about it, they're an enthusiast's dream. V8, RWD, NA or FI from factory with a lot of aftermarket support, they handle a lot better than they used to, and they're available with a stick. Some people need to realize that the Germans cars they drool over have become as heavy if not heavier than some of the American performance cars and less raw in comparison. My first sports car was an S550 Mustang GT, which was the last thing I would've expected growing up. I grew up a Euro and JDM fanboy. Glad to see people pointing out how good the Mustang and especially the Camaro are
I agree, I have always driven European sports cars until I was appalled at how disconnected the modern iterations became. I test drove a SS 1LE during covid and needless to say I purchased a new 2022 SS 1LE last year and love the thing. I do not agree with comments that it cannot handle it's a performance focused machine all the way through!
I really hope you guys do a review on the Camaro SS 1LE and CT4 V BW. It would be interesting to hear back to back opinions on the driving dynamics. Chassis siblings, with different types of engines with similar power figures.
Glad we finally got this comparison! Curious to see if your opinion/rankings would have been different if you compared the ZL1 with the Supra and M2…ZL1 base price is within the price range of the Supra and M2 (with carbon everything) I went from a 2020 Supra to a MT 23 Supra and now in a ZL1! Wild change but I wanted to experience the ZL1 before the end of the run. I miss the Supra sometimes but love the ZL1 as well I can’t help but compare the ZL1,M2 and Supra. Great Video!
As you mentioned they gave an opinion with little hard data. In the real world, the SS 1LE is the superior performance car (read not making school/grocery store runs) but out right performance. On a road course, SS 1LE is in a class by itself, price not withstanding.
The Camaro ZL1 with the M6 trans starts at just under $70k. You could’ve compared basically the SS 1LE +200hp for the same price as the M2. IJS. The ZL1 comes standard with a nicer interior, better brakes, heated and cooled seats, weighs 3900lbs., and the M6 has flat foot shift and optional rev match. The 10 speed auto is fastest, of course, but the M6 is one of the best manuals on the market to drive.
I'd never, ever buy a GM product 'or a BMW anymore' but I will give serious respect to the Camaro 1LE. GM has some of the best chassis tuning in the business, they honour their engine warranties during HPDEs and it has some serious track chops. Good friend of mine has one and the magical diff is the bees knees.
The M2 styling and interior are everything I hate about modern cars. It's not M4-ugly but the styling looks like a crappy after-market body kit that doesn't suit the styling, made worse by the fact the previous gen M2 was a gorgeous-looking car. And I HATE those giant wrap-around screens. I know they give lots of functionality but they look so out of place in a well-styled interior. And yes, the Supra looks pretty, but then I always liked the styling.
I agree and disagree - it is everything I have about modern cars inside and out, but no was is the M4 uglier. This car is absolutely hideous, the M4 is way better looking. To me.
I've had 3 Camaros with a 22 1SS1LE being my last one, I had to sell it because I was dangerously close to getting speeding tickets and that wouldn't be good for me job wise, but it was one hell of a car to drive and I thoroughly enjoyed driving it in the mountains through the twist and turns. She will be missed but times have changed for me.💔
@@betonblack3621 Yeah I hated selling it, but like I said getting any tickets at all is not good in my profession and it's also time for me to just chill and take it easy live in the slow lane for awhile. I just hope it went to a good home😂
The biggest mistake by GM was that they didn't do enough marketing focused towards the great handling performance of the 6th gen Camaro. No wonder why excellent test driver Randy Pobst bought one.
It’s the usability not the marketing that’s an issue. If you are buying a 5.0 or scat you know about the Camaro. The average muscle car buyer values usability, and the Camaro in some ways falls flat in that area relative to its competition.
The fact that gm followed the 5th gen with a car that duplicated all its weaknesses (visibility, rear seats, trunk space/access) is all you need to know about why the sales tanked. They had all the opportunity in the world to sell a more practical car with 99% of the performance and look.
@@cp-the-nerd agreed! Cause it’s got the best chassis of the big 3 but because a core aspect of a muscle car to me is dailiability, it’s my last pick even if it is the best performance package all around. If it was a nicer car to live with and look at I’d have probably ended up in one.
If I had to choose which one of these three to pick, I would get the Camaro SS 1LE. I would suffer my visibility and daily headaches from it. Why? It’s just the better car of the three, in terms of price per performance. And IMO, it looks the best too.
Im not sure where they find that the camaro is confused, I haven't heard that from other drivers, I came from an FRS for years and straight into this and it was a very easy transition, similar type handling. I have also driven a supra which i do not find an attractive car at all and equipped with weak single piston rear brakes isnt sporty.
It seems you didn’t notice the difference in commentary between our two guys. They definitely differed on their impressions of the Camaro. Thanks for watching and congrats on a great car!
I just love the premise they started on. I've been saying that all along, how the new M2 weighs similarly to a Mustang GT and Camaro SS, whilst everyone else only seemed occupied by it's 'progressive' looks. This was refreshing to hear from someone else. I mean the M2 is 1 adult man shy of a 2008 M5. That a FULL sedan with a V10 for Pete's sake!
y'all should have turned on the magic e-Diff on the camaro... Track mode > double-tap the traction control off button, then select the magic modes from the menu that pops up on the instrument cluster. It'll dance even more than it already did in track mode. 👌👌
Agree. And SS 1LE owner here. However, that procedure is too had with several steps and the hosts cant focus that long and would get tired before completing said tasks... so no thanks we will press on. And Camaro is a loser before a tire turned anyway so not to worry if the test was biased. I mean come on there were two bwms in the test and they are heavily biased towards german cars to begin with.
Having owned a 2017 SS 1LE, I get the bit about feeling like you’re driving a cave, and the car feeling big and heavy…but that’s really only an issue at parking lot speeds, when trying to maneuver around obstacles. I’ve literally run over curbs I had no idea were there, which sucks majorly. BUT…get the 1LE out on a backroad, or better yet, a proper racetrack, and all those issues disappear! For a car that doesn’t come with windows, you can place the Camaro anywhere you like on the track, and nail your mark each and every time. The balding guy (don’t know their names) needs to be in a Miata or 86 (I’ve owned both of those as well) if he can’t manage to have fun in the 1LE. The handling, cornering grip and confidence it inspires is still competitive nearly 7 model years in. Look at track data. Only last year did an M4 Competition X-Drive (likely almost 100k) shave a second off the Camaro’s VIR time during Lightning Lap. And let’s not mention the ZL1 1LE that shaves another 10 seconds off the M4’s time for less money. I’m no professional car reviewer, but I’ve driven all manner of sports/exotic cars, and have owned several cars in the sports car category (including BMWs, Porsches, etc) and I know the Camaro deserves more credit than he gave it. The opinion of the self described “redneck” of the duo was more in line with what I’d expect the results to be.
Hi, you wrote a well thought out comment from a place of experience. I thought I'd write to share my thoughts. The Camaro SS1LE is the best track car under 60k period. Next up is the C8 and the Cayman S at the 70k to 100k bracket. Having said that, a small counterpoint. I didn't enjoy the car on the streets and backroads man. Esp on the narrower ones which we have in WA state. The visibility was hard for me to get over and the width (an issue because of the visibility) felt larger than it actually was. The car also isn't super playful on those types of roads (it's a very capable high grip heavy car). In the cold wet conditons here its also snappy. Examples of cars that more fun to me (but not in the same class of track prowess) at that price or less on backroads are the 86, Miata (as you mentioned above) and if you want grip and insane corner speed (in all conditions, all tarmacs) the GR Corolla. I kept trying the Camaro (it's priced very well for the hardware and sounds lovely) but I kept enjoying the GR86 in particular a lot more. Just felt like the rebirth of the lively lightweight Japanese classics like RX7, S2000 etc.
@@sunnyvalentino Another SS 1LE owner here and a former Miata owner as well. While there is a big weight difference between the cars you mentioned. I do not find my SS 1LE to be challenging to drive on the road. Maybe you are better suited to smaller and lower power cars?
thanks to your BMW M3 fighter video featuring a Boss 302! i am happily stuck in 2013 and absolutely dont want to be actualized to current era. My 465 hp-screaming-7500rpm/3650lbs Boss302 feels awesome, is comfortable, can cruise at +23 mpg.
I’ve never seen a reviewer so wildly miss the character of a 1LE. The only thing that car wants to do is corner and beat apex’s into submission. The ZL1 is the drag car. To characterize it as a big straight line muscle car oaf is to just completely miss the chassis dynamics and intent of the vehicle. I think the reviewer came in with a conclusion about the Camaro and wasn’t looking to be swayed. Disappointing
Same I never heard someone say this car isn’t a corner carver. I think the problem is he didn’t push it enough. The harder you push the 6th gen camaro the more capable it feels. Plus it kind of does a magic trick and the car feels like it shrinks around you when you push it hard.
Yeah, I don't think these guys are track rats. Or just track casuals even. They are insanely off mark here with the handling. I may have missed it, but they may have not even tried the "comp" modes? I know they're hidden and all that, but still. Only reviewers far off base with the SS 1LE. The car gets reclassified in autosports every year as a "cheater car" and bumped up. A shame they didn't have a M6 car, because it's shifter if the M2's is that bad, means that the Camaros is far and aways the best because I know it's better than the Supra.
@@APOEL2012 that video fails to mention the 30k(minimum) price gap between the supra and m2(all he said was its is more expensive) and they also completely rigged the drag race between the supra and z4(proof - th-cam.com/video/atNosTtdUaE/w-d-xo.html ) and in that carwow video the supra had 50 less HP than the supra in the other video
Great job as always. I love how you two have and state your different views so we can see it from 2 different perspectives, as you have since the very beginning. I am listening my way back through the podcast and I am to episode 650 and I still can't get enough of you guys.
Thank you. We pioneered the idea of two different hosts driving the same car in order to give the viewer more reference to form their own opinion. We're glad our approach works for you!. Thank you for watching as well as listening to our podcast!
They are the same platforms. Like with most car companies, there’s several variations of the same platform. Every VW is based on the same platform. There’s differences of course, but much of the architecture is the same.
I don’t disagree. I still went with the Camaro. V8s with good manual transmissions are almost gone. There’s the Camaro/ZL1, the Challenger, the Blackwing, and the Dark Horse. That’s it. Test drove the Mustang GT with the Getrag manual and was unimpressed. For what it’s worth, I’ve driven the OG M2 with the N55 and the old m240i M Performance with the B58 that’s in the Supra. Both manuals. Both great cars. I like my SS 1LE more. To each their own though.
@Everyday Driver, I’m bummed you didn’t have the SS 1LE M6 to test!👌 The TR6060 Tremec is the best way to enjoy the Alpha Chassis with 1LE track pack! I have a mint 2018 (best body style IMO) Let me know when you need a proper SS 1LE w/M6 manual! 👍
We hope you noticed that while we wanted a manual, and discussed the automatic…. The conclusions on the cars were not based on the transmissions. Glad you have and enjoy your SS 1LE!
I look at all three of those cars and I think the Camaro is the best looking of the 3. I don't know what BMW is doing with its design right now but that car is absolutely atrocious. That front end is one of the worst I've ever seen. The Supra is cool but I don't love the looks. I like the car but I just haven't fallen in love with the exterior design.
Great review as always...! After hearing the Supra review during the drive, the driving experience sounds eerily reminiscent to every review of the 6-speed e46 M3 I've ever seen. Weight, size, balance, power levels.... maybe a 'BMW' comparison between the Supra, e46 & e92 M3 vs new M2 should be next? I would watch that.
Camaro is the best looking. I have never liked the Supra's styling. It's has a Squidward nose. The Camaro has a lot of character and is a bargain, but the coffin like interior is a deal breaker for me. As far as overall desirability, for me it tracks price. 1) M2, 2) Supra, 3) Camaro.
I am a bmw owner, 23 x3M. But in this case, ( I love the review btw guys) I love the BMW M2. Why? Bmw fits my personality to a T. It’s aggressive but yet sophisticated at the same time,and while the Camero is menacing , aggressive, angry .. I don’t want the aggressiveness at all times. If that makes sense! LLS.
Before watching Im going to assume the lightest car wins. They will claim how good the Camaro is and give the win to the Supra anyway. I’ll come back after to see how right or wrong I am
The newest M2 looks like it was drawn on a sketch pad and assembled out of legos. Can’t stomach it. But the previous body style was beautifully executed. 🙌 🇩🇪 Thank you for putting this comparison together, fellas. 🍻
Hi, from Japan!! I’m surprised because I thought both of you two would pick M2 for first prize. Every three cars are great but if my wish come true, I hope Camaro becomes a more cornering machine!!
The new Supra is actually the most japanese car you can get. They took something from another country, studied it, worked on it with respect and made it better, like whisky and watches :)
You guys win. I guess the C8Z51 is the 2nd most under appreciated car. Would have been a good comparison. I might just buy the 1LE and put the upgraded M2 seats in it. LOL!😂
I wasn't ever a Camaro fan but I hadn't ever been in one. Jumped in a one-owner 45kile 5th gen last month just to see if the visibility was as bad as I kept hearing about, and ended up liking it so much I bought it.
I think people exaggerate the visibility on camaros , it's gonna be ok lol
Always remember to take reviews and opinions with a grain of salt. Not everyone wants or enjoys the same things. People tend to harp on some things and blow them out of proportion. It’s important to experience things for yourself and form your own opinion.
The driving experience I have in my ‘15 1LE absolutely FAR outweighs having some hindered outward visibility when looking towards your blind spots.
I was the *exact* opposite. I sat in a 2020 ZL1 for the same reason, to see if the visibility was bad as people say and it was *SO* bad that I completely changed my mind on wanting a Camaro, which is unfortunate because I had my heart set on a new 1SS 1LE track package.. the rear right blind spot is so bad, it's literally dangerous to change lanes in.. and that's definitely not just something you get used to over time, like people try to say. I don't know if the previous gen is better or not..
@@Jcastro9444 Sit in one.. it's *WORSE* than people say, at least in a 2020+ model. I the right rear blind spot is so big, it's dangerous to change lanes in.. I wanted a 1LE so bad.. and still do but that's completely deterred me.
@@Jcastro9444 my philosophy when I rented one for a week was to just drive faster. You can't accidentally merge into someone if everyone's behind you lol
I've been watching you two for years, but I just noticed today how good your audio leveling is - rapidly switching back and forth between drivers, one's not too loud or too quiet, it makes the experience so much easier to just keep watching. A+
We work very hard on all steps, including audio. Thanks for noticing and being a long time viewer!
Wow. Someone actually threw a Camaro SS 1LE into the euro sports car ring! Bout damn time!! Love my 2023 SS 1LE! P.S. I used to be a e46 and e92 owner and the SS 1LE blows the doors off the both of those cars!
@xtrythis1170,
Agreed! However….
They did a disservice by not testing an SS1LE M6!
Let’s keep it 💯 across the board with an all manual competition..
was your e92 an m3? I doubt your ss would blow the doors off of an e92 m3, though it might be a tinnnny bit fast but so close that traction and driving skill would likely be the deciding factor
@thomasmurphy3570 It was a 2012 M3 DCT with no competition pkg. I did multiple track days with it too. 414hp stock and both cars are about the same weight.. The e92 M3 was also an unreliable shit box. Throttle body actuators went at 65k, and 2 coils went at 70k had to get it towed to an indy shop, vacuum pump at 71k. You can be a bmw fan boy all you want, I'm done with em and never looking back! 😏
@@xtrythis1170 You had probably one of the most notoriously unreliable models they ever built. The newer models don't have a significant portion of the issues you mentioned.
Throttle House did it... 5 years ago XD th-cam.com/video/90Xm25XySPs/w-d-xo.html
I love the old M2, especially the M2C. The new Supra in a manual is a hell of a car too, I see a lot of them on the track when I go and they can put down some fast lap times, and the ones I see with aero put down some nasty times. Not a fan of the front nose bump but I do love the side and rear profile. They just look great.
All that said and done, I do own a 2023 2SS 1LE in a manual, and before that I owned a 2017 2SS/M6, both of them being bought new. I loved my old SS so much that I wanted to get (in my eyes) the best N/A sports car with a manual out there. I drive on track quite a bit as well so having a car that I have to do absolutely nothing for (I do change out the brake fluid though) is huge for me, and I never worry about reliability or over heating when on track. The eLSD, mag ride, short throw manual transmission, all the different performance traction modes, it makes one hell of a car and it's sad that it's going away.
I always appreciate seeing the SS 1LE in more videos as it's an amazing car, and i'm glad the Supra was able to get the manual transmission it oh so definitely deserved. The last few years have been great for cars!
I know what you mean, in order of preference:
1. Camaro ZL1
2. Camaro SS1LE
3. Camaro SS
@@jmmch3358 I debated going for a ZL1 instead of my SS but keeping the N/A motor was big to me, on top of there being quite a few tracks in my area that would be a handful with the ZL1 power.
Amazing car though! My coworker has a ZL1 1LE and he loves it but funny enough, he's looking at getting an SS 1LE on top of it as he misses the lower power and less insane suspension lol, save the ZL1 1LE for the track days.
Can't go wrong in either direction in my mind, hell I want to try out a turbo 4 1LE at some point just because of the weight, should be Supra weight levels in an alpha chassis car and that seems like a hell of a time (Supra would feel better hands down, but still curious, especially for a 30k car!)
There’s one arguably better, the C7 Grand Sport 😉
@@tonspike track consumables on a C7 GS are almost double that of the SS1LE, I was close to grabbing one of not for that lol
Though you are right, the C7GS is probably the best modern N/A car with a manual now that I think about it!
@@TheFifthString How is that possible? Sure, the C7 runs 335s vs 305s in the rear, but being nearly 300 lbs lighter means less chassis wear overall so longer intervals for brakes/pads/suspension components etc.
Paul's opinion of the Camaro is definitely in the minority. Its actually a handling machine. When it came out in 2017 (the SS 1LE), it was praised unanimously by the like of Randy Pobst, Car and Driver, etc for its handling dynamics and steering feel when compared to the F82 M4. The base Camaro SS puts down the same lap times as a base F82 and the 1LE absolutely murders the F82 on any road course, stock for stock, while providing better steering feel and a more raw chassis AND with better ride quality. The only problem here its that its dated. But even with the new Alpha 2 stuff, such as the CT5V BW, it handles better and rides better than the current M5. Go to any HPDE and you will likely see a 6th gen Camaro. They keep up with GT4s and 991 GT3s at half the cost.
Came here to say the same thing. I don't understand his take. He says the car doesn't know what it wants to be because it is good at everything? That's funny. Porsche has made a killing producing cars that have the same formula. Great handlers. Great straight line speed. Plus the ability to cruise comfortably. The difference is, the Camaro is American and is a lot cheaper than most of the cars it competes with in terms of performance (directly and indirectly). His Euro snob appeal was turned all the way up on this one.
I haven't driven the Supra or the M2, but I went from a Fiesta ST to a BRZ to a Camaro SS1LE and I don't think the car drove or felt like a heavy car whatsoever. The 6th gen 1LE feels like a proper sports car, not a muscle car that will corner. It was an insane leap up from my previous cars. It felt worth every $$ and I felt zero desire to modify it, which never happens for me in a car.
I really only noticed the weight when trying to accelerate quickly and you're just a little too low in the revs. Like you're in 3rd at 3000 and need to be in 2nd or something along those lines. I always sneered at muscle cars because I care more about driving dynamics than power. It shocked me when I test drove it and then continued to amaze me the longer I owned it.
Nearly everything outside of the visibility and the annoying electronic parking brake...is perfect. Exhaust/engine sound is just right, I had zero desire to change the exhaust. No drone at all either. Best manual trans I've used, clutch had great feel as well. Brakes were absolutely insane, steering while not a ton of feel is very precise and direct. You never feel like you're guessing what the car is going to do. You could tell when it was going to let go and it was so predictable to reign it in when necessary.
It rode great as well, touring and even sport were fine for daily driving on good roads. My biggest complaint was the bunker style visibility made it a touch sketchy to daily and it spoiled a lot of the fun. It's a big wide car and because you can't see well, you're always guessing where the edges are. Spoils backroad driving for me...
I have a 2020 ND Miata recaro package now and sometimes I think the Camaro communicated better than this does. I miss the V8 power and sound, but I have more fun in the Miata at sane speeds. The Camaro just begs you to do 100 mph everywhere you go and the limits are so so high, it's not that exciting. I got rid of it because I couldn't stop doing Mexico speeds all the time, it's not the car you want if you lack self control lol Running costs for a daily were pretty brutal as well, tires don't last long if you're an ape like me and they're at minimum $1500 to replace.
But overall it's going to become a collector car and a cult classic if it isn't one already. It's hard to get much better than the 1LE without spending twice the money.
@@NDEEZMiata well put. The comparison to the Miata had been made before, with people saying it feels like a big Miata. Even the base SS is a damn good sports car. For a HPDE build, I'd actually start with the base SS over a 1LE because I'd replace literally all the 1LE bits(including the elsd) anyway. Only thing lacking in the non 1LE SS is PTM.
Yeah, i don't know how one can say a car with it's manufacturer openly warranting track use, comes out of the box ready for the track use with track tires and effectively a big brake kit, doesn't know what it wants to be. The Camaro has always been a road racing inspired car.
He bought one he liked it that much
I love that they listened and built the supra manual and i hope it sells, but the camaro ss 1le with a stick is the move. V8 noise, a good 6 speed, magnaride, and alpha platform handling...yes, please.
Honestly, I've driven the Supra on a road trip from LA to San Fran to Sacremento and back and it was absolutely great fun. It really is a great sports car, you'll be surprised how low it is, how small it is and actually how beautiful it looks in real life. The only gripe was the luggage space, but it's a 2 seater sports car. Genuinely drive it first before dismissing it.
Perfect explanation. I recently picked one up and I couldn't agree more.
Besides the Asian RICE fake vents, buffeting windows when rolled down, little cargo space, and the need to be 5’10” or shorter to actually be comfortable inside, then yeah, it’s a good daily car…🤣
@JacesOwnWorld Toyota designed it so you can mod the vents, there are hacks to stop the buffering, have a daily driver ready if you need the space, and you get shorter as you age so it's like a pre-order for tall people.
@@JacesOwnWorldbut it still better and sportier than a Volkswagen, but the Volkswagen is more practical
@@M2Lyfeeither a supra or m240i (2022) got the m240i with the xdrive for everyday use..
Just got a 2023 2SS last week, the visibility isn’t that bad, you get used to it pretty quickly . The rear view camera on the mirror is a huge plus, gives you a great view out the back. Love the sound and love the power.
my goodness that camaro and the sound. Sound is a huge factor for me when buying a sports car.
I wanted a C8 and bought the 2SS 1LE
Same I love my car
What an incredible line up of cars! I absolutely love this segment of sports cars that aren’t astronomically expensive, but all truly special in their own flavor. Can’t go wrong with any of them.
Can vouch for the Camaro though, really love my 6th gen ZL1. The chassis handles so well and the big V8 has unbeatable character and the best soundtrack. So sad to see Camaro getting phased out at GM.
Don't be sad. The value of your car went up the minute GM announced it's imminent demise. Give GM credit for continuing to build manual cars, Corvette excepted. Audi and BMW let the enthusiasts know they don't care about them, with the exception of the M car offerings.
@@dougrobinson8602not quite yet... the value will go up in next 2 years, then keep climbing.
I’ve always been a german car guy (still am) but bought a 6th gen zl1 during Covid. It is such an awesome car. I hope to keep mine for life.
Do so, or get an SS 1LE if you want to drive more than stop at fuel stations, but either way, anything upwards from SS is quite incredible.
@@maverickphantom005 ha, I didn’t buy it to save gas! If you drive it economically it will get as high as 28mpg, but on the track you can expect figures of 3, lol
Great video, as always! When the Supra came out, I wasn't a fan. I wasn't too bothered by the lack of manual since I'm used to cars with DCTs, but the ZF8 gave me pause. Eventually, I saw one in person and the looks grew on me quickly. I eventually got around to trying one for a day and loved the way it drove. Now, there's a manual option. For my money and tastes (subjective, of course), there's not a better/more complete sports car package for anything near the price. I'm glad you guys always showed the Supra the love it deserved and didn't overly criticize the BMW partnership. If two manufacturers come together to make a fun ICE sports car in the age of hybrid/electric that's a blast to drive, who cares? I'm the proud owner of a 2023 Supra and couldn't be happier with it!
Exactly. Well said. These biased fanboys seriously need to get over it. Developmental collaborations aren't new. They just aren't usually as visible and influential. As they say, haters are gonna hate. I have a 2021 supra. I'd love to have the manual.
The way I see it is you're getting a great BMW sports car for less money. Maybe stick a Toyota badge on a Mercedes G wagon next. My gripe is that I think Toyota Safety Sense is better than what BMW has, oh well.
@@jeffk464 and with better shifter, more rotation out the factory and probably better steering (haven't driven one)
Well said... I love mine...
I just can't get over the exterior styling of the supra. Didn't care for it when it came out and it hasn't grown on me since. It's as if it's trying too hard to look futuristic or something. In my humble subjective opinion, the m2 is a better looking car. But to each his own.
Man that camaro sounds good!!!
21’ SS 1LE 6spd owner. I have never been a camaro guy, I’ve always been an import guy but the 1LE 6spd is just so good and a manual transmission is very hard to find now.
I have a 19 ss 1le with heads and cam it’s a blast mines a good bit faster than a zl1/zo6
The best part of owning a camaro is pushing it to the limits and you would be wow how can this car do this! Most people dont even know how underrated a camaro is until they drive . Push the camaro to the limits in corners and you will be in love instantly. Its a confidence inspiring car.
Take a 90 degree turn at 70 mph and you'll love it even more. Can't figure out what they did with it (engineers will not disclose that), but I was slowing down from 140mph and turned last minute at above 70 mph, exactly 90 degrees, and it just turned. I was sideways for a slight bit, then right back up at 140 mph going straight.
I’ve never in my life heard an auto journalist or car enthusiast refer to an Alpha Chassis-ied Camaro as “lacking cohesion” and “unsorted”. I mean, it should have had a manual but I don’t think the Camaro is confused in the least by what it is…that would be the reviewer.
Considering the price of the M2, I would rather have seen the Camaro ZL1 in the comparison rather than the SS. The ZL1 is much, much closer in price to the M2. Of the sixth gen Camaros, I think the ZL1 1LE will be the model future car collectors will be looking for.
Have you driven a ZL1 1LE? It has the worst ride of any car I have ever driven. Even as a track day special, it is bad. You better have a lot of track days and very few street days to make it worthwhile. But yeah, collectors will go for them because they are the fastest and most rare. And collectors don't drive them anyway. I much prefer a regular 1LE or ZL1.
I made a change from my M2 comp to ZL1 1LE during Covid and it’s shocking how close of prices they are (M2 was 55k, ZL1 was 58k). The Camaro is literally a bargain for the amount of performance you get as well
@@brucefunderburg1938 no, I have not driven one, which is why I wanted to see it in the comparison. 😁 Thanks for the info.
The ZL1 1LE is only good for the track, has a extremely harsh suspension for DD
@brucefunderburg1938 Agree 100%
@EverydayDriver any plans to review a CT4-V Blackwing with a 6speed? Seems like it would be a timely comparison with this group!
Agreed. It’s uncanny how GM has missed giving them both Blackwings 6MT for review.
They definitely need a Blackwing!
With the turbos in the 4BW it would have been a better matchup here and it's right up their alley. Useable daily and can dance and has a stick. What's not to like?
This M2 look still hasn't grown on me and I don't think it's going to at this point. Loved the last gen so much too.
Have you seen one in person, particularly in this blue? It looks amazing and I detest current BMW design.
I seem to be alone but I think the design is fantastic! Something about it really resonates with me, can't take my eyes off it.
It looks pretty meh, the most boring of the there for sure. For pure looks I'd probably give it to the Camaro.
@@mikea5205 I like the boxy aspects of it, but it doesn't gel well with the other features of the exterior. It's like they were afraid to go full box and just did a weird mish mash.
I think the blue actually makes it look worse. Black, white and Nardo look so much better.
I have the 2021 Camaro SS 1LE. It is by far the best bang for the buck. I have the 6 speed, and that makes it even better. The BMW is very nice,, but very $$$$$$. The Supra is too small and cramped. For the money, V8, and looks, I will keep my SS 1LE....
You can only hide weight to a point, and the Supra is dynamically the best out of the 2
It has also the best looking stance and road presence
Great car. I couldn't deal with the roofline and crampness inside. Nor the lack of android auto. So I went 2SS 1LE M6 Camaro. No regrets. Maybe the MKVI Supra will fix it's shortcomings for me.
Not as good as a Cayman
@@ormand3000 not as expensive either.
@@user-iz3gv5vo6b CPO Cayman is more reliable than any of these 3 cars brand new, and cheaper.
@@ormand3000 Dude, were'e not talking about used car prices.
Nobody does these comparisons as well as you guys. That was true when you did the wrx vs fiesta st etc. comparison and it's true now. Kudos.
Thank you! We appreciate you being a long term viewer!
And look at you, comparing the comparers!
I think you got it right too.
@@bearclaw5115 ok.
Yes I know my bias is screaming from my profile pic, but the Supra is truly under appreciated at this price point. I love and respect the Camaro, the other two cars can't touch it in sound and sheer brutality. And the old M2 was an incredible car (I almost bought one). But the Supra can pull off light(ish) car handling, fast straight line pulls, and then be comfortable and get 32 miles to the gallon when you're bored on the highway. It's honestly the first car I've owned where when I consider what car I want next, I just come back to another Supra.
This review reminds me of the Boss Mustang, E92 M3, and 1M comparo from years ago.
IMO BMW built the 1M and then forgot everything they learned with each ensuing M2 variant. The Hommage 2002 is where the M2 should have gone stylistically. I think that’s where this shade of blue comes from. The Supra just reminds me of a 981 or 982 Cayman S. That’s a good thing.
We’re glad to know you’ve been watching that long! Thanks for being with us!
I remember that review as well! M2CS is the spiritual successor to the 1M and it of the E46.
I just bought a 2023 Camaro 2SS 1LE, and I don't think Paul pushed that car hard enough. It's a brilliant chassis that takes a bit more effort to shine. I didn't get the older M2 comp, basically due to PTM, and this being a track day car.
Yeah he is wrong about the 1LE. Also criminal to get it in automatic when the Tremec is available.
Think you made the right choice, hope you keep it for a long time. Such an awesome machine
You are correct. The magic of the Camaro is at the limit, unless you're driving 180 mph, I can testify that brakes feel like melted marshmallows (Brembo).
Other than that it's quite a wonderful car.
@@danielmembrillo6472ummm... depends. If you have many straight roads to explore, then automatic, but if you're on a twisty, then manual. It's all up to where you use it.
I kept my automatic above 160 mph 80% of the time due to where I lived then, while when moving on East coast got the manual.
@@maverickphantom005 We live about 45 mins from Blue Ridge, if you are referencing the Blue Ridge MTNs in Georgia.
I would never opt for the automatic in the 1LE when you have the Tremec option available. Especially with rev match. Maybe if you were in traffic, but then why get the 1LE. It's a gem of a tranny.
I've had my '20 1SS 1LE 6M Shadow Grey Metallic for 8 months now, and its always a blast. Since I've bought the car, I've had so many compliments from random people in traffic, parking lots, and in the neighborhood. Parents getting into their crossovers with their kids have mentioned they love the color, kids irding their bikes have said "I like your car, mister", random people in traffic giving thumbs up or other car-guys just having fun on the highway together. There's been nothing but good times with it. It has shortcomings, like the trunk-opening. I doubt I'll get a 24-pack of water into it easily but I did get a 2-drawer milwaukee packout crate with their slim organizer on top IN my trunk currently to hold my tools since I don't have the garage space. I can still put all the groceries I typically need within the trunk anyway. Backseats are nothing cosmetic, dead weight and maybe the rear window is pretty narrow and I hace to sometimes learn forward to see the traffic light clearly when stopped at a traffic light, I don't have blind spot assist, lane keep etc (not that I need/want them but the Mustang GT comes with it stock even on the base V8 option), But god damn do so many random people enjoy the looks and sounds of it, even family members that have 0 interest in cars whatsoever. I would gladly buy another 6th Gen 1LE before any other car.
You don’t have to lie. No one is gonna compliment a stock grey ‘20 Camaro. Since Camaros are everywhere and this gen has been around for too long, that is like complimenting someone for having an old iphone. I call MADE-UP!
@@supramin-aaron I’m sorry nobody compliments your Camry
@supramin-aaron I have the same car. Surprisingly, they do. The SS 1LE looks pretty bad ass up close. The sound will make your heart skip a beat, too
On MT the '16 Camaro SS beat the '16 BMW M4. On R&T the '19 Camaro SS1LE beat the same year BMW M2 Competition.
MT has praised the Camaro SS1LE to be better than any non Shelby Mustang including the Mach 1, also commented that the SS1LE was better than the new Supra and 400 Z.
Those are some good reads and I think the mt head 2 Head videos are still up
1SS 1LE is the best value sports car experience one can get. 1SS is the best daily powerful cars for the money one can get. Owned 3 Mustangs, 3 Camaro SS (all 6th gen), and a Challenger R/T (best road trip car with personality).
I have a ‘21 2SS 1LE A10. Amazing car.
As a ‘21 M3 owner I’m just over the moon that BMW decided to make a M2 this unsightly from the front. Makes the 3 and 4 look positively refined next to it.
Bmw has lost their way with styling
@@tarekz9992 i have a 23 m3 comp and ive never gotten so much attention in my life. people constantly saying nice car.
Nah lol, the G80/82 are still the 2nd ugliest car in the lineup, after the XM
@@fcman123 is that why there's a 9 month waiting list to get an m3?
@@minigiant8998 lol my dealer (have a G87 on order) called me literally today to ask if I wanted to put in a g80 order instead because they have no waitlist 🤣 M2 waitlist is 2+ years. Used g80 prices are dropping like rocks too
Weird comment they made about "the BMW M2 having immediacy on the throttle 'because it's a turbo'." It's the other way around normally where you are waiting for pressure to build, so it's a really odd thing to say.
Yes, waiting for response is often the case, but in upper RPM on the M2, the turbos are spooled and there's no waiting. From a stop or at low RPM, you're relying on the straight six, which still has decent power - but not the same immediacy. Thanks for watching!
@@EverydayDriver great feedback. Thanks.
Just absolutely love you guys. Thanks for doing these; yours is one of my very favorite channels. My 2007 MX-5 and I watch together. :)
As the owner of a M6 1LE, I just congratulate myself more of my choice at any of these reviews 1LE vs Whatever. What an amazing car for the money. I don't care if it's a bit slower than this or that, I could have grabbed 2 1LEs for the price of 1 M2 Comp or Supra 😂😂
Or a ZL1
Perfect video to come up on my feed. Great content as always fellas.
Been watching EverydayDriver for a very long time. They do informative and balanced reviews. On this comparison though, I think they left some key information out. I don't think they gave the Camaro a very fair shake in terms of what it stands for. The SS 1LE is basically an out of the box streetable track car. They failed to mention quite a few pertinent facts about it: comes with Oil cooler, Diff cooler, Aux Radiator, Transmission cooler, pretty trick eLSD, BBK, 220 treadwear tires, and the magneRide ( which they mentioned). This car is designed to take a beating on the track. I've had mine for 1 year now, and actually traded in my bmw M2C for it. I haven't driven the Supra or the new G87 M2 but I didn't like the handling characteristics of the previous M2C at all, It was quite fidgety on track and had a fairly harsh suspension on street (I am assuming the G87 will be similar although it does seem to have adaptive dampers this time around). If I wanted to get it as confidence inspiring as the Camaro I had to upgrade to an aftermarket suspension bits/coils. The drivetrain/engine combination of BMW would be superior (DCT/Twin turbo I-6) as I can tell based on my straight away speeds on track but the Camaro's handling is far more superior and stable at higher speeds. The long wheel base is actually an advantage not a disadvantage when on track. If you compare the trackability of the Supra to the Camaro, from what I hear, the Supras need to be modified so they can handle consistent track use since they don't have some of the additional cooling and braking capability required for consistent track use. Cant comment on the G87 but I will hold my judgement until I get to drive on track. The carbon buckets on the G87 look amazing but once optioned with this feature it is going to be at least 50% more pricy than the Camaro. Something to think about I guess...
That sucks about losing the manual camaro before filming. You guys would've loved the camaro more while slamming through that Tremec 6 speed.
I'll take the Supra all day! Wait.... I did! I test drove a lot of cars and the Supra is awesome. Had a Porsche 911 S picked out and last minute, got the Supra. Saved 80k and love it!
I raced a 2016 camaro ss a8 full track build with aero and it was amazing. Raced it for 4 years and it became unbeatable and well known in the time attack world. Now I race a c7 z06 manual and it's obviously way faster but the camaro was extremely capable chassis. Drove a 2023 a10 ss 1le and it felt the same just trans wasn't as good for serious track work. For all the issues with a8 trans it was better in manual mode and wasn't shortcomings were known. Best race car for the money hands down
The new M2 is a total package if one is looking for a daily driver beast. It’s extremely usable with having amazing amount of usable space, comfort, and trunk space, yet have over 450hp, 6 speed, rear wheel drive that’s extremely controllable in high speed, thanks to BMW genius suspension engineering. I honestly can’t think of another car at this price range that does everything so damn well.
F87 M2C does all of this is lighter, equally as practical, cheaper an incredible deal if you can find a low mileage one.
A performance pack mustang basically does all of that and costs 30k less. Most of their complaints about space, comfort, and trunk space are solved by the mustang. Chassis isn't quite as good as the camaro's but with performance pack is pretty damn close and you're still saving a ton of money.
@@Hapkin G87 is a lot more confident in corners when pushed hard, where as F87 dances and can get you in trouble real fast. And if you like dancing tails, simply adjust traction control to your liking. Also, G87 starts at $62k, which is a bargain and not that far away from low mileage used F87 comp, with an outdated and cheap looking interior from 10 years ago! That’s where we spend all our time driving.
@@arymonem agree with the front end cornering with more confidence in he new one but with a simple alignment and camber plates, I prefer my M2CS cornering to my buddies G8* M3C which just feels bloated and heavy in the twisties. I haven't driven the M2 yet but looking forward to it. I can't imagine it feels as light and darty, agile and fun as my M2CS. The new one is 3800ish vs 3400ish in my M2CS manual with CCB'S. Very significant difference.
Imho, interior in F8* is going to age better over time (10+ years) than G8* in part because of having really slick analog gauges, and clean unfussy almost minimalist styling. I agree that G8* interior is much nicer in terms of fit and finish and materials but it is dominated by a screen that will age poorly.
Lastly, and I say this with confidence, the exterior of F87 will easily age better than the pig like line dominant, proportionally weird G8* M2.
@@Hapkin I have driven my brothers M4 G82 a bit in the twisty roads, and I do agree that it feels large and some what heavy ( none the less super capable). However, M2 somehow feels different in a sense where I don’t feel it being heavy at all. And when pushed hard, it just asks for more without loosing composure! Regardless, they are all fun cars and super enjoyable for every owner.
Bought a MT Supra about 7 months ago. It's been amazing and I love every minute.
One thing that's on the table though is removing the clutch delay valve.
I hear of people doing this. Does it remove vagueness from the clutch engagement? Why do they put them in the car to begin with?
I'm starting to think I should race out and by a manual fire breathing Supra before such things are gone. Pretty soon it will be nothing but electric and hybrid autos with no driver feel. This very well may be the last generation of manual gas powered sports cars.
@bearclaw5115 they say it's there to prevent drive train shock, but if you know how to drive a manual you already know how.
I can't speak for the vagueness as it felt okay for me when it was biting.
@jeffk464 that was my thought as well. I was concerned when I heard the Supra was a collaboration with BMW. Did a lot of research into it and found out how similar the b58 is with the 2jz and that Toyota had a lot more hands on the car than they are given credit for.
I told myself if a MT was released and it was decent I'd get one for the same reason you mentioned. There is already speculation the next gen will be hybrid at least, maybe full EV. At that point it's a soulless rocket. It's fast but no personality. I want to hear the engine roaring up to redline, turbo flutter and burbles when you left off.
I removed the cdv on my OG M2 and it made a really big difference! Take off is more predictable from 1st gear and now I can shift way faster and it just grabs. I highly recommend it 👌 it was way easier than I anticipated too!
Sold my Camaro 2017 SS 1LE for a c8 and I still miss my Camaro ! Haha but the c8 is awesome too.
For sure you miss the MT shifter
I sold my Camaro for a Supra A91-CF and then sold the Supra for a C8 Z51..... I miss both the Camaro and the Supra. 😂 Love the C8 though ❤
I missed you two coming together and hearing each others final picks at end. And having some final discussions before video ends. Please, don’t get rid of that.
I'm a bit confused by the take on the Camaro. Perhaps it shines more when at a track vs backroad. I don't see the visibilty as an issue if one learns how to properly use mirrors. Though a helmet won't fit through the window (have to open the door) was something.
Overall though the M2 & Supra are more traditional "sports cars" and i think the Camaro has become a hybrid - which in it's own right should het recognition instead of redicule.
Though, if BMW actually put together an attractive M2, not an eraser thats had the corners worn down it would easily be a favorite with the price being a hangup for some.
Like the previous gen M2C then ?
@@DjNikGnashers given the choice definitely the prior gen aesthetically. Function is certainly there, form factor is dissappointing.
@@andyd4684 It's certainly not as 'pretty' as the previous gen in my opinion (obviously looks are subjective to the viewer and some might love the new M2).
I think the M2C was a stunning looking car, perfect proportions, lovely swoopy bulging curves.
They Guy in the blue shirt has no idea what he’s taking about, says the Camaro doesn’t like to turn or go in a straight like like what the hell is he talking about
Yeah these guy's are some dumbasses. Claiming that a GEN6 Camaro SS 1LE feels like a 4,500 lb car is a full retard statement. So it feels like it weighs like a Charger Hellfat? With comments like that I can't take this channel seriously. That would be like claiming an EVO VIII feels like a 4,200 lb car or something. BS, your just trying to get a point about the M2 feeling light across, and insulting the 1LE to do so. I guess if the M2 does that to the 1LE then the M2 must feel like a 2,800 lb car? A GEN6 Camaro SS 1LE feels anything but overweight unless you're used to miata's, EG hatchbacks, stripped Foxbodys, and C5/C6 Z06's. A GEN6 1SS 1LE M6 car is in the 3,730 lb range. Yes the 10L80 will add a little weight. Very few cars costing 6 digits will hang with a GEN6 SS 1LE on a road littered with aggressive turns.
I know it's strange. I really like the way the m2 looks!
I think it’s a great looking car, no matter the color or the trend of car journalists opinions. BMW will sell many, prob more than both the 1LE and Supra combined.
@@Dhimeevery single car sells nowadays. That doesn’t make every single car “great”. It just means people buy cars…
@@JacesOwnWorld honestly don’t know how to reply to this… clearly, reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit.
Launching it in this color did not do BMW any favors, it photographs horribly.
Me too. I think it's one of the best looking cars out right now. It's not perfect obviously. I would try to paint the bottom of the front opening body color maybe. It's also a bit pricey and still no ventilated seats. Also to get the upgraded seats and any options really adds up quick.
Thanks again guys, great reviews. I think that a better play is a used BMW from a few generations ago even though you give up some horsepower - lighter, more tactile steering, smaller, better.
Don't get me started on that numb electric steering and looks only a Mother could love LOL
M240i (2022- present) is alittle more practical than the supra.. and its quicker
@@samuelreid603 and has that lovely, numb steering...lol
@@1970borntorun just alittle bit 🤏🏾
Loved to see the Camaro in this video. 1st place for me.
I love individual elements regarding all three cars, but I'm quite a fan of the GR Supra. Nice to see it win here too.
The alpha chassis and lt1 engine is tried and true, and one of the greatest chassis of all time. It's by far the better track car, the most comfortable, naturally aspirated, and the capabilities it has is amongst super cars. Oh and it's cheaper lol
I would have liked to see a track comparison as well - my thoughts were the same. Supra best on backroads but 1LE best on track with M2 being in the middle and doing both well.
You guys are telepathic because I've literally considered buying one of these three cars for myself since they are semi value based performance manual cars!
Same, aside from the M2. 1LE Camaro and 6 speed Supra are my top 2 options but the visibility is so bad in the Camaro that I may have changed my mind on it.. The rear passenger side blind spot is so bad, it's dangerous to change lanes in, even looking over your shoulder. Definitely sit in one and decide for yourself but if you think you can handle it, that's definitely the car I would choose between those 3.
Why not a mustang?
@@hhaste I'm thinking the Supra doesn't have great visibility either. The new cars let you know is someone is in your blindspot. The other thing is if you have a huge blindspot in your mirrors you don't have them adjusted properly.
@@ROmaniac21 imo SS 1LE is too good as a track car vs GT performance pack. I’m a mustang fan too
@@hhasteI change lanes in my 6th gen camaro SS without blind spot assistance all the time. Try it out again except this time adjust your mirrors properly. If you have your mirrors set to where you can just see the edge of your quarter panel in the mirror, you set it wrong. Mirrors are supposed to be set to just past where you can’t see your quarter panel anymore. Once you set it that way it will be like you’re watching traffic through a wide screen TV. As they start to disappear from your rear view mirror they will start to appear in your side mirror.
Even with the crap visibility in the Camaro, of the three I'd take one, then use the extra 25k I didn't spend on BMW to buy a Miata
I found myself cross-shopping these cars.
I started at the Supra and I liked it, but liked the corvette more. Wouldn't a preowned 7th gen do everything this does, better?
I then decided I needed a back seat because I have a young child and shuttling her around is a big part of my life now so it was between the New M2, the Camaro 2ss 1le, and even the ct4vblackwing. Using it as the daily was a big factor.
The camaro won. The price of purchase and upkeep I'm guessing would be the best. It's the simplest one that does the most. In my opinion it also is the one with the most character out of the box.
I wouldn't have thought people cross shopped Camaros and M cars, but this comment section is proving me wrong.
L
Todd on the M2's styling is really succinct with his "catastrophically ugly", then Paul spends several describing why. I love the dichotomy of these two fantastic hosts!
So, we agree the previous M2 CS is still the one to have. Price be damned! 😅
10 years ago, me and my best friend were one of those high schoolers who bashed on American cars, but after the 6th gen Mustang and Camaro came out, we had to change our minds. I mean, if you think about it, they're an enthusiast's dream. V8, RWD, NA or FI from factory with a lot of aftermarket support, they handle a lot better than they used to, and they're available with a stick.
Some people need to realize that the Germans cars they drool over have become as heavy if not heavier than some of the American performance cars and less raw in comparison.
My first sports car was an S550 Mustang GT, which was the last thing I would've expected growing up. I grew up a Euro and JDM fanboy. Glad to see people pointing out how good the Mustang and especially the Camaro are
And they won't bankrupt you like the Germans will. Those cars are lease only or trade before 60k miles.
I agree, I have always driven European sports cars until I was appalled at how disconnected the modern iterations became. I test drove a SS 1LE during covid and needless to say I purchased a new 2022 SS 1LE last year and love the thing. I do not agree with comments that it cannot handle it's a performance focused machine all the way through!
I really hope you guys do a review on the Camaro SS 1LE and CT4 V BW. It would be interesting to hear back to back opinions on the driving dynamics. Chassis siblings, with different types of engines with similar power figures.
Motor trend used to say that the 6th gen Camaro SS had the powertrain that the Cadillac ATS V missed. On the same amazing platform.
Both are pretty equal. Most would have liked to see the LT1 or LT2 in the CT4-V BW but it’s honestly good enough with the turbo V6.
@@jmmch3358I wish the CT4-V Blackwing had the LT1 with the LT2 modifications. 490hp NA V8 > 470hp twin turbo V6
Too bad about the manual SS 1LE getting wrecked! A manual 1LE would have made this video perfect. 😢
Had a 17 SS 1LE before... I would pick it again over the others.
Awesome comparison guys, Can you also do a comparison video between BMW 340i vs Cadillac CT4 V Blackwing(Manual).
M2 look significantly better in all the other colors tbh
Glad we finally got this comparison!
Curious to see if your opinion/rankings would have been different if you compared the ZL1 with the Supra and M2…ZL1 base price is within the price range of the Supra and M2 (with carbon everything)
I went from a 2020 Supra to a MT 23 Supra and now in a ZL1! Wild change but I wanted to experience the ZL1 before the end of the run. I miss the Supra sometimes but love the ZL1 as well
I can’t help but compare the ZL1,M2 and Supra. Great Video!
As you mentioned they gave an opinion with little hard data. In the real world, the SS 1LE is the superior performance car (read not making school/grocery store runs) but out right performance. On a road course, SS 1LE is in a class by itself, price not withstanding.
The Camaro ZL1 with the M6 trans starts at just under $70k. You could’ve compared basically the SS 1LE +200hp for the same price as the M2. IJS.
The ZL1 comes standard with a nicer interior, better brakes, heated and cooled seats, weighs 3900lbs., and the M6 has flat foot shift and optional rev match. The 10 speed auto is fastest, of course, but the M6 is one of the best manuals on the market to drive.
Exactly - wtf happened? Why not mention the ZL1? It’s even less than the optioned M2!
I'd never, ever buy a GM product 'or a BMW anymore' but I will give serious respect to the Camaro 1LE. GM has some of the best chassis tuning in the business, they honour their engine warranties during HPDEs and it has some serious track chops. Good friend of mine has one and the magical diff is the bees knees.
It’s a track car! And faster than. Both of the more expensive cars around track
Very in depth, simple yet informative review. Loved it! 👍
Glad you enjoyed it. Thank you for watching!
The M2 styling and interior are everything I hate about modern cars. It's not M4-ugly but the styling looks like a crappy after-market body kit that doesn't suit the styling, made worse by the fact the previous gen M2 was a gorgeous-looking car. And I HATE those giant wrap-around screens. I know they give lots of functionality but they look so out of place in a well-styled interior.
And yes, the Supra looks pretty, but then I always liked the styling.
I agree and disagree - it is everything I have about modern cars inside and out, but no was is the M4 uglier. This car is absolutely hideous, the M4 is way better looking. To me.
AWESOME piece guys! You’re making me want to get back in a Supra 😂
24:17 this is the best quote I've heard about the M2 in all reviews ever. All other reviewers seem scared to say the car is ugly.
Watch the throttle house review on it. They didn’t hold back at all.
I love it. Saw one in this blue the other day and I still can’t believe how good it looked and I hate current BMW design.
Id take the old m2 cs. The bew m2 auto, and the supra manual. Wonder which nissan z is better transmission wise
I've had 3 Camaros with a 22 1SS1LE being my last one, I had to sell it because I was dangerously close to getting speeding tickets and that wouldn't be good for me job wise, but it was one hell of a car to drive and I thoroughly enjoyed driving it in the mountains through the twist and turns. She will be missed but times have changed for me.💔
Damn should have kept her bro. They going away.
@@betonblack3621 Yeah I hated selling it, but like I said getting any tickets at all is not good in my profession and it's also time for me to just chill and take it easy live in the slow lane for awhile. I just hope it went to a good home😂
@@JoeSmith-nu8oo heard you. Man. I’m keeping mine forever. Now I’m looking for a C7 Z06. I’m addicted to the speed and sound, and power.
My favorites: C7 Corvette GS, 6th gen Camaro ZL1, SS1LE & SS👍
The biggest mistake by GM was that they didn't do enough marketing focused towards the great handling performance of the 6th gen Camaro. No wonder why excellent test driver Randy Pobst bought one.
It’s the usability not the marketing that’s an issue. If you are buying a 5.0 or scat you know about the Camaro. The average muscle car buyer values usability, and the Camaro in some ways falls flat in that area relative to its competition.
He bought a 4 cylinder 1le
The fact that gm followed the 5th gen with a car that duplicated all its weaknesses (visibility, rear seats, trunk space/access) is all you need to know about why the sales tanked. They had all the opportunity in the world to sell a more practical car with 99% of the performance and look.
@@cp-the-nerd agreed! Cause it’s got the best chassis of the big 3 but because a core aspect of a muscle car to me is dailiability, it’s my last pick even if it is the best performance package all around. If it was a nicer car to live with and look at I’d have probably ended up in one.
@@ceooflovingthehomies9294 you're preaching to the choir. I bought a chevy SS sedan and never looked back.
I’d take the Camaro first, then Supra and I’d trade in the M2.
If I had to choose which one of these three to pick, I would get the Camaro SS 1LE. I would suffer my visibility and daily headaches from it. Why? It’s just the better car of the three, in terms of price per performance. And IMO, it looks the best too.
Im not sure where they find that the camaro is confused, I haven't heard that from other drivers, I came from an FRS for years and straight into this and it was a very easy transition, similar type handling. I have also driven a supra which i do not find an attractive car at all and equipped with weak single piston rear brakes isnt sporty.
It seems you didn’t notice the difference in commentary between our two guys. They definitely differed on their impressions of the Camaro. Thanks for watching and congrats on a great car!
I just love the premise they started on. I've been saying that all along, how the new M2 weighs similarly to a Mustang GT and Camaro SS, whilst everyone else only seemed occupied by it's 'progressive' looks. This was refreshing to hear from someone else. I mean the M2 is 1 adult man shy of a 2008 M5. That a FULL sedan with a V10 for Pete's sake!
y'all should have turned on the magic e-Diff on the camaro... Track mode > double-tap the traction control off button, then select the magic modes from the menu that pops up on the instrument cluster. It'll dance even more than it already did in track mode. 👌👌
Agree. And SS 1LE owner here. However, that procedure is too had with several steps and the hosts cant focus that long and would get tired before completing said tasks... so no thanks we will press on. And Camaro is a loser before a tire turned anyway so not to worry if the test was biased. I mean come on there were two bwms in the test and they are heavily biased towards german cars to begin with.
Having owned a 2017 SS 1LE, I get the bit about feeling like you’re driving a cave, and the car feeling big and heavy…but that’s really only an issue at parking lot speeds, when trying to maneuver around obstacles. I’ve literally run over curbs I had no idea were there, which sucks majorly. BUT…get the 1LE out on a backroad, or better yet, a proper racetrack, and all those issues disappear! For a car that doesn’t come with windows, you can place the Camaro anywhere you like on the track, and nail your mark each and every time. The balding guy (don’t know their names) needs to be in a Miata or 86 (I’ve owned both of those as well) if he can’t manage to have fun in the 1LE. The handling, cornering grip and confidence it inspires is still competitive nearly 7 model years in. Look at track data. Only last year did an M4 Competition X-Drive (likely almost 100k) shave a second off the Camaro’s VIR time during Lightning Lap. And let’s not mention the ZL1 1LE that shaves another 10 seconds off the M4’s time for less money. I’m no professional car reviewer, but I’ve driven all manner of sports/exotic cars, and have owned several cars in the sports car category (including BMWs, Porsches, etc) and I know the Camaro deserves more credit than he gave it. The opinion of the self described “redneck” of the duo was more in line with what I’d expect the results to be.
Hi, you wrote a well thought out comment from a place of experience. I thought I'd write to share my thoughts. The Camaro SS1LE is the best track car under 60k period. Next up is the C8 and the Cayman S at the 70k to 100k bracket. Having said that, a small counterpoint. I didn't enjoy the car on the streets and backroads man. Esp on the narrower ones which we have in WA state. The visibility was hard for me to get over and the width (an issue because of the visibility) felt larger than it actually was. The car also isn't super playful on those types of roads (it's a very capable high grip heavy car). In the cold wet conditons here its also snappy. Examples of cars that more fun to me (but not in the same class of track prowess) at that price or less on backroads are the 86, Miata (as you mentioned above) and if you want grip and insane corner speed (in all conditions, all tarmacs) the GR Corolla. I kept trying the Camaro (it's priced very well for the hardware and sounds lovely) but I kept enjoying the GR86 in particular a lot more. Just felt like the rebirth of the lively lightweight Japanese classics like RX7, S2000 etc.
@@sunnyvalentino Another SS 1LE owner here and a former Miata owner as well. While there is a big weight difference between the cars you mentioned. I do not find my SS 1LE to be challenging to drive on the road. Maybe you are better suited to smaller and lower power cars?
thanks to your BMW M3 fighter video featuring a Boss 302! i am happily stuck in 2013 and absolutely dont want to be actualized to current era. My 465 hp-screaming-7500rpm/3650lbs Boss302 feels awesome, is comfortable, can cruise at +23 mpg.
I’ve never seen a reviewer so wildly miss the character of a 1LE. The only thing that car wants to do is corner and beat apex’s into submission. The ZL1 is the drag car. To characterize it as a big straight line muscle car oaf is to just completely miss the chassis dynamics and intent of the vehicle. I think the reviewer came in with a conclusion about the Camaro and wasn’t looking to be swayed. Disappointing
Same I never heard someone say this car isn’t a corner carver. I think the problem is he didn’t push it enough. The harder you push the 6th gen camaro the more capable it feels. Plus it kind of does a magic trick and the car feels like it shrinks around you when you push it hard.
Yeah, I don't think these guys are track rats. Or just track casuals even. They are insanely off mark here with the handling. I may have missed it, but they may have not even tried the "comp" modes? I know they're hidden and all that, but still. Only reviewers far off base with the SS 1LE. The car gets reclassified in autosports every year as a "cheater car" and bumped up. A shame they didn't have a M6 car, because it's shifter if the M2's is that bad, means that the Camaros is far and aways the best because I know it's better than the Supra.
@@maziyarebrahimi997 as an owner I couldn't agree more
Great vidéo.
One of your reviews made me buy my M2😅
The Supra is pretty much the previous gen M2. Which makes it so great!
Not - th-cam.com/video/CuiujPC8cmo/w-d-xo.html
@@APOEL2012 that video fails to mention the 30k(minimum) price gap between the supra and m2(all he said was its is more expensive) and they also completely rigged the drag race between the supra and z4(proof - th-cam.com/video/atNosTtdUaE/w-d-xo.html ) and in that carwow video the supra had 50 less HP than the supra in the other video
A no options Cayman with the sport chrono is 84k. Would you get the BMW stil?
Great job as always. I love how you two have and state your different views so we can see it from 2 different perspectives, as you have since the very beginning. I am listening my way back through the podcast and I am to episode 650 and I still can't get enough of you guys.
Thank you. We pioneered the idea of two different hosts driving the same car in order to give the viewer more reference to form their own opinion. We're glad our approach works for you!. Thank you for watching as well as listening to our podcast!
Fantastic Review. I love your chanel. Greetings from germany ❤
The G87 M2 and the Supra are not on the same platform. The Supra is based on the Z4 platform,
They are all on the BMW CLAR platform.
@@phattyhales Not the same though - only parts in common is the rear axle,
They are the same platforms. Like with most car companies, there’s several variations of the same platform. Every VW is based on the same platform. There’s differences of course, but much of the architecture is the same.
Great video! I learned a lot about the 3 cars. Not the best looking M car but thank you BMW for not putting the beaver teef on the m2!
Camaro all day. Really like the Supra, but no competition in the sound department. That V8 sounds wicked.
Sounds good but slower than the other 2.
I don’t disagree. I still went with the Camaro. V8s with good manual transmissions are almost gone. There’s the Camaro/ZL1, the Challenger, the Blackwing, and the Dark Horse. That’s it. Test drove the Mustang GT with the Getrag manual and was unimpressed. For what it’s worth, I’ve driven the OG M2 with the N55 and the old m240i M Performance with the B58 that’s in the Supra. Both manuals. Both great cars. I like my SS 1LE more. To each their own though.
@Everyday Driver,
I’m bummed you didn’t have the SS 1LE M6 to test!👌
The TR6060 Tremec is the best way to enjoy the Alpha Chassis with 1LE track pack!
I have a mint 2018 (best body style IMO)
Let me know when you need a proper SS 1LE w/M6 manual!
👍
We hope you noticed that while we wanted a manual, and discussed the automatic…. The conclusions on the cars were not based on the transmissions. Glad you have and enjoy your SS 1LE!
I look at all three of those cars and I think the Camaro is the best looking of the 3. I don't know what BMW is doing with its design right now but that car is absolutely atrocious. That front end is one of the worst I've ever seen. The Supra is cool but I don't love the looks. I like the car but I just haven't fallen in love with the exterior design.
Great review as always...! After hearing the Supra review during the drive, the driving experience sounds eerily reminiscent to every review of the 6-speed e46 M3 I've ever seen. Weight, size, balance, power levels.... maybe a 'BMW' comparison between the Supra, e46 & e92 M3 vs new M2 should be next? I would watch that.
Camaro is the best looking. I have never liked the Supra's styling. It's has a Squidward nose. The Camaro has a lot of character and is a bargain, but the coffin like interior is a deal breaker for me. As far as overall desirability, for me it tracks price. 1) M2, 2) Supra, 3) Camaro.
I am a bmw owner, 23 x3M. But in this case, ( I love the review btw guys) I love the BMW M2. Why? Bmw fits my personality to a T. It’s aggressive but yet sophisticated at the same time,and while the Camero is menacing , aggressive, angry .. I don’t want the aggressiveness at all times. If that makes sense! LLS.
I like all three cars but I’ll take that naturally aspirated small block V-8 in the Camaro over the other two anyday of the week.👌🏽🔥🔥🎼🎼🔥🔥
Trust me 6th gen 1LE Camaro is the one to get. Had many of sport cars and test a ton of them. End up buying the Camaro 1LE and still have it.
V8 ✌🏻
V8 + 6MT 💪
7:40 Uhhhhh no. "Immediacy" is exactly what the turbos are NOT giving you versus the NA Camaro.
Before watching Im going to assume the lightest car wins. They will claim how good the Camaro is and give the win to the Supra anyway. I’ll come back after to see how right or wrong I am
The only mistake is that they compared two MT VS the AT Camaro
The newest M2 looks like it was drawn on a sketch pad and assembled out of legos. Can’t stomach it. But the previous body style was beautifully executed. 🙌 🇩🇪
Thank you for putting this comparison together, fellas. 🍻
Hi, from Japan!! I’m surprised because I thought both of you two would pick M2 for first prize. Every three cars are great but if my wish come true, I hope Camaro becomes a more cornering machine!!
The Camaro already is, the 1LE is a track monster the guy in the blue shirt is clueless
The SS 1LE can handle!
If its my money I'm going with the Supra, great review!
The new Supra is actually the most japanese car you can get. They took something from another country, studied it, worked on it with respect and made it better, like whisky and watches :)
You guys win. I guess the C8Z51 is the 2nd most under appreciated car. Would have been a good comparison.
I might just buy the 1LE and put the upgraded M2 seats in it. LOL!😂
Toyota car enthusiasts do not want BMW maintenance. That might.. literally be the opposite of what they want. That’s why people aren’t buying them.
Any car enthusiasts should maintain their car as if it’s a BMW