The biggest difference is going to be impedance. The Midas Pro Preamp is set to be an even and Equal 10 kΩ Kilo-ohm preamp where as the XR18's Midas Designed preamp is a variable 5 to 10 kΩ Kilo-ohms. The Circuit is nearly identical except for the tolerances. The Midas pro preamps will be more consistent when using multiple inputs where as the Behringer preamps will vary in it frequency response. Basically what this means is the Midas Pro Pres are going to give the mic a consistent sound over time, where as the Behringer is built to fluctuate depending on the source. How this translates in sound is that the Midas Pro will sound a bit more clear, punchy, and have less low end roll off compared to the Behringer. The only issue you may have when comparing these is if you used inputs 1 or 2 on the XR18. Those inputs are different from the rest of the mic pres in the XR18 and X18 mixers. Channels 1 & 2 are a switching circuit that can change depending on the signal it is feed such as a Hi-Z input for guitars Channels 1 & 2 have an even larger ohm difference from 5kΩ / 2MΩ so the tolerance is from 5 Kilo-ohms to 2 Mega-ohms which is a drastic difference. So what this means is Channels 3 and up on the Behringer will be a bit closer to the Midas Pro Preamps and Channels 1 & 2 will vary the most. Cool comparison by the way. I have used both a Midas Heritage 2000 and Midas Legends 3000 consoles in my studio for over 15 years and I can say that the Midas XL/Pro preamp is one of the best preamps ever made. The high 10 kΩ preamp gives a clear and very punchy sound when you compare that to a Neve 1073 which is 300Ω or 1200Ω ohms (not kilo-ohms) depending on if it's in high or low mode on the internal dip switch. This gives the Neve it's darker tone. The higher the Ω impedance the brighter and more punchy it will be. Thanks for doing this comparison it was great!
I believe you’re right. Kinda the same thing with Di’s, I think it’s better transformers. There’s a big difference in passive Radial di’s than On Stage di’s. Just my 2 cents!
Great vid. Only addition that might be worth considering is inverting one of the two channel outputs and summing them rather than subjectively rating the frequency response.
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Thanks for this test, I downloaded also the waves from your google drive. I played it on my Yamaha NS10 and definitely can hear the difference. Midas is warmer and the sound is bit more "friendly" in the speaking voice. But yes, the difference is small but the price difference is much bigger :D thank you Tom for your time on doing this comparison.
That's the thing tho. All the high end gear makes small differences, but if you stack 20 channels up those difference can become really big and impactful.
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@@annekedebruyn7797 Yes I understand your point but....I have seen some comparisons for example between Apogee high end interface and Tascam cheap interface. The same band the same sond the same mixing done. I could tell the difference only for the voice but for the whole band I did not hear that much...funny was how many people were wrongly guessing that cheap Tascam is actually Apogee :D
Thank you for the the job you've done. Really interesting. I would have add a blind comparison between the 2 samples but this is already enough demonstrative.
Yeah it's not ideal, but still glad Tom took the effort to demonstrate. Impedance mis-match between the preamps will change their normal inherent behavior, when run in parallel with one mic, and effectively halve their normal input impedance.
That was a first thought that came to my mind. Actually the difference might be more prominent if compared properly. Two seperate mics could make a difference too, so I would take a broadband sound source (for example studio monitor) and place a mic in front of it and then I would play pre-recorded sound sample recording it two times without changing anything - one on Midas M32 and then on XR18. In my opinion that test would get rid of splitting impedances problem. Perfectly the test should take a place in an "acoustically-friendly" enviroment without outside sound pollution etc.
The midas pro preamps are different than the M32 preamps. I have an m32 and lots of experience with the pro 2 and x32 series. They're all slightly different with the pro series being the best sounding in my opinion. The differences may come down to conversion (44.1, 48 and 96k).
Was the pink noise identical through each preamp like the voice sample was or was it recorded independently? What I mean is could you put them out of phase and hear the differences? I'll download your samples and try myself :)
I Hear a little difference... not the subject of this video but i think if you consider the output stage finally you’ll get better results with the Midas...
The sound may be the same but from what I’ve learned, there is a significant difference in the weight of both pieces, the Midas being heavier. I believe this speaks to the better connectors and other parts internally. There are plenty of reviews speaking of channel failures and noise on the Behringer vs the Midas. In conclusion if you’re going to set it up and let it be, the behringer will be fine… if you’re going after repetitive setup/tear down the Midas may be worth the difference, as I’ve read of no failures. I’m not an expert. Anyone agree?
Totally, and the midas is designed to take the beating of continually setting up and tearing down. The better quality faders are worth the extra price alone.
There is a much noticeable difference between the two. The Midas Pro sounds clearer and with warmth to the mid tone to your voice while the Behringer sounds a little muffled-not as bright and clean... IMO.
Jesus Crist, I was just looking for a comparison bc i just ordered an X32 and i was curious as to what the pre's are like. 5 seconds in and I'm like "shit i recognise that voice" XD
I have an X32 . I’m about to buy a stagebox. Which one do you suggest ? The Midas 32 or the Behringer ? Or even the 16 of each. Midas or Behringer stagebox ? Thanks.
I can tell the difference audibly. Optically less.... The Midas is indeed cleaner and higher defined. Would I pay the extra money for the better pre-amps alone? Quite frankly... YES
It’s not doing justice to make a decision about a pre based on one-channel recording comparison. I don’t get why So many videos do this. You can run a single piece of audio through a million dollar ssl console and wouldn’t hear the difference if only listening to the single channel playback. Lol. No. You need multiple channels recorded, summed together, level balanced, EQ’d and boosted to more easily discern a difference. People can tell the difference, it doesn’t take a pro
There is no difference between the two you choose. They are also the same on the official website.“32 award-winning Midas microphone preamplifiers” “16 award-winning Midas-designed, fully programmable mic preamps for audiophile sound quality”
Thanks for your comment, however there are actually articles which show the hardware for these desks is different. The M32 preamps are made by Midas, using high-quality components. The Behringer ones are designed by Midas, however are produced using much cheaper parts. The A/D converters in the Midas desks/stage boxes are also of considerably better design and quality.
That's ridiculous. A company (for instance, Hyundai) doesn't buy another company that is well-know for extremely high quality (such as Bugatti), and then dilute the high-quality one and upgrade the cheap one so that there's much less difference. The reasons to buy the better-quality company may include the acquisition of their intellectual property, but it is NOT to cause the high quality equipment to become part of the cheap equipment offered. The cheap stuff could just be made better by utilizing higher quality components, hiring a few engineers to design the hardware/software better/faster/stronger/easier to manufacture, and you wouldn't have to pay $50 million to make that happen. And your two descriptions differ, further screwing you on your argument. Midas can design something, and then Behringer says, "let's use cheap hardware components so we can make an inexpensive product." The design doesn't necessarily reflect the actual brand of parts used, nor their quality, to build the final product.
Hi. I am the lucky owner of the Midas MR18 console. However, I lack the ability to select indication meters 1-16 Pre fader and a post fader on analog inputs. I don't know if you understand me. I will explain another way. During playback while moving the fader of channels 1-16, I also need to see the change to indicator meters for each channel 1-16. Now this is not possible because the signal for the indicator meters is taken from before the fader. What do you think about it? Well thank you
@@DCP-200 Yes they are better. Calling it pro series on the m32 is marketing. now there is nothing wrong with an m32. I'll put it this way an m32 with 32 preamps and a surface with an entire mixer built around it is $3000. a 24 ch dl is around $2500 - $3000.
The biggest difference is going to be impedance. The Midas Pro Preamp is set to be an even and Equal 10 kΩ Kilo-ohm preamp where as the XR18's Midas Designed preamp is a variable 5 to 10 kΩ Kilo-ohms. The Circuit is nearly identical except for the tolerances. The Midas pro preamps will be more consistent when using multiple inputs where as the Behringer preamps will vary in it frequency response. Basically what this means is the Midas Pro Pres are going to give the mic a consistent sound over time, where as the Behringer is built to fluctuate depending on the source. How this translates in sound is that the Midas Pro will sound a bit more clear, punchy, and have less low end roll off compared to the Behringer. The only issue you may have when comparing these is if you used inputs 1 or 2 on the XR18. Those inputs are different from the rest of the mic pres in the XR18 and X18 mixers. Channels 1 & 2 are a switching circuit that can change depending on the signal it is feed such as a Hi-Z input for guitars Channels 1 & 2 have an even larger ohm difference from 5kΩ / 2MΩ so the tolerance is from 5 Kilo-ohms to 2 Mega-ohms which is a drastic difference. So what this means is Channels 3 and up on the Behringer will be a bit closer to the Midas Pro Preamps and Channels 1 & 2 will vary the most. Cool comparison by the way. I have used both a Midas Heritage 2000 and Midas Legends 3000 consoles in my studio for over 15 years and I can say that the Midas XL/Pro preamp is one of the best preamps ever made. The high 10 kΩ preamp gives a clear and very punchy sound when you compare that to a Neve 1073 which is 300Ω or 1200Ω ohms (not kilo-ohms) depending on if it's in high or low mode on the internal dip switch. This gives the Neve it's darker tone. The higher the Ω impedance the brighter and more punchy it will be. Thanks for doing this comparison it was great!
would be be more interesting to know the comparison between X32 preamp or s16 stage box, not XR18 and M32 premp or DL16
Thanks for this good info!
I believe you’re right. Kinda the same thing with Di’s, I think it’s better transformers. There’s a big difference in passive Radial di’s than On Stage di’s. Just my 2 cents!
2:46 Midas Pro
3:20 Behringer (designed by Midas)
I always wanted this comparison, so, thank you.
Appreciate this vid! Not only for your experiment, but it creates a place for discussion too, so theres a lot to learn. Really appreciate it man.
Flip the phase of one channel and it’ll expose the differences. As long as you have calibrated the levels as accurate as you can.
Great vid. Only addition that might be worth considering is inverting one of the two channel outputs and summing them rather than subjectively rating the frequency response.
Thanks for this test, I downloaded also the waves from your google drive. I played it on my Yamaha NS10 and definitely can hear the difference. Midas is warmer and the sound is bit more "friendly" in the speaking voice. But yes, the difference is small but the price difference is much bigger :D thank you Tom for your time on doing this comparison.
That's the thing tho.
All the high end gear makes small differences, but if you stack 20 channels up those difference can become really big and impactful.
@@annekedebruyn7797 Yes I understand your point but....I have seen some comparisons for example between Apogee high end interface and Tascam cheap interface. The same band the same sond the same mixing done. I could tell the difference only for the voice but for the whole band I did not hear that much...funny was how many people were wrongly guessing that cheap Tascam is actually Apogee :D
on 2:41 starts the comparison, so you don't need to pass into the boring speaking. Thanks for the video, and you're welcome for the tip :D
JPG for president. Thanks 🥳
One need to time allign the tracks. There is a huge difference. Not sure though if I can really hear it without a null test. Difference is -7db.
Interesting comparison, very helpful, thanks for sharing.
Thank you for the the job you've done. Really interesting. I would have add a blind comparison between the 2 samples but this is already enough demonstrative.
You can’t split mic level audio without losing your correct impedance 🤨🙄 you should have used two matched microphones instead of splitting
Yeah it's not ideal, but still glad Tom took the effort to demonstrate. Impedance mis-match between the preamps will change their normal inherent behavior, when run in parallel with one mic, and effectively halve their normal input impedance.
That was a first thought that came to my mind. Actually the difference might be more prominent if compared properly. Two seperate mics could make a difference too, so I would take a broadband sound source (for example studio monitor) and place a mic in front of it and then I would play pre-recorded sound sample recording it two times without changing anything - one on Midas M32 and then on XR18. In my opinion that test would get rid of splitting impedances problem. Perfectly the test should take a place in an "acoustically-friendly" enviroment without outside sound pollution etc.
The midas pro preamps are different than the M32 preamps. I have an m32 and lots of experience with the pro 2 and x32 series. They're all slightly different with the pro series being the best sounding in my opinion. The differences may come down to conversion (44.1, 48 and 96k).
The m32 used to have the Midas Pro preamps I believe, not anymore
but MR18 But it is “16 award-winning Midas PRO microphone preamplifiers”
Was the pink noise identical through each preamp like the voice sample was or was it recorded independently? What I mean is could you put them out of phase and hear the differences? I'll download your samples and try myself :)
Wow, I normalised & phase aligned them, then flipped one. there's a lot of difference in the top end!
@@domminney Nice test
I Hear a little difference... not the subject of this video but i think if you consider the output stage finally you’ll get better results with the Midas...
The sound may be the same but from what I’ve learned, there is a significant difference in the weight of both pieces, the Midas being heavier. I believe this speaks to the better connectors and other parts internally. There are plenty of reviews speaking of channel failures and noise on the Behringer vs the Midas. In conclusion if you’re going to set it up and let it be, the behringer will be fine… if you’re going after repetitive setup/tear down the Midas may be worth the difference, as I’ve read of no failures. I’m not an expert. Anyone agree?
Totally, and the midas is designed to take the beating of continually setting up and tearing down. The better quality faders are worth the extra price alone.
There is a much noticeable difference between the two. The Midas Pro sounds clearer and with warmth to the mid tone to your voice while the Behringer sounds a little muffled-not as bright and clean... IMO.
did you use a pop filter on your mic?
Jesus Crist, I was just looking for a comparison bc i just ordered an X32 and i was curious as to what the pre's are like. 5 seconds in and I'm like "shit i recognise that voice" XD
Which is better for Line-Signals of Synth-Outputs?
Can you share this on some sound blogs and walls
How do the MR series compare to the M series? Effects? Sound? Thanks in advance.
XR 18 is completely different than X32 from the power supply that feeds preamps to internal software it self so this not a comparison of X32 and M32
just to clarify, the x32 is a better sounding mixer than the xr18?
I have an X32 . I’m about to buy a stagebox. Which one do you suggest ? The Midas 32 or the Behringer ? Or even the 16 of each. Midas or Behringer stagebox ? Thanks.
I can't hear any difference either. Behringer has been working well so far.
thank you , i cant hear a difference but.. i'm not on studio monitors
I can tell the difference audibly. Optically less.... The Midas is indeed cleaner and higher defined. Would I pay the extra money for the better pre-amps alone? Quite frankly... YES
It’s not doing justice to make a decision about a pre based on one-channel recording comparison. I don’t get why So many videos do this. You can run a single piece of audio through a million dollar ssl console and wouldn’t hear the difference if only listening to the single channel playback. Lol. No. You need multiple channels recorded, summed together, level balanced, EQ’d and boosted to more easily discern a difference. People can tell the difference, it doesn’t take a pro
Yes they do. Problem solved 👍
Why is he eat a Bonbon meanwhile he speaks xD
He asked the same of you while typing...
There is no difference between the two you choose. They are also the same on the official website.“32 award-winning Midas microphone preamplifiers” “16 award-winning Midas-designed, fully programmable mic preamps for audiophile sound quality”
Thanks for your comment, however there are actually articles which show the hardware for these desks is different. The M32 preamps are made by Midas, using high-quality components. The Behringer ones are designed by Midas, however are produced using much cheaper parts. The A/D converters in the Midas desks/stage boxes are also of considerably better design and quality.
@@tomwright9357 Thank you for your reply. Indeed, even though Behringer acquired MIDAS, the production of the products is independent of each other.
That's ridiculous. A company (for instance, Hyundai) doesn't buy another company that is well-know for extremely high quality (such as Bugatti), and then dilute the high-quality one and upgrade the cheap one so that there's much less difference. The reasons to buy the better-quality company may include the acquisition of their intellectual property, but it is NOT to cause the high quality equipment to become part of the cheap equipment offered. The cheap stuff could just be made better by utilizing higher quality components, hiring a few engineers to design the hardware/software better/faster/stronger/easier to manufacture, and you wouldn't have to pay $50 million to make that happen. And your two descriptions differ, further screwing you on your argument. Midas can design something, and then Behringer says, "let's use cheap hardware components so we can make an inexpensive product." The design doesn't necessarily reflect the actual brand of parts used, nor their quality, to build the final product.
Hi. I am the lucky owner of the Midas MR18 console. However, I lack the ability to select indication meters 1-16 Pre fader and a post fader on analog inputs. I don't know if you understand me.
I will explain another way. During playback while moving the fader of channels 1-16, I also need to see the change to indicator meters for each channel 1-16. Now this is not possible because the signal for the indicator meters is taken from before the fader.
What do you think about it?
Well thank you
Same
M32 pre's are not pro series.
@@DCP-200 Yes they are better. Calling it pro series on the m32 is marketing. now there is nothing wrong with an m32. I'll put it this way an m32 with 32 preamps and a surface with an entire mixer built around it is $3000. a 24 ch dl is around $2500 - $3000.
You need to boost your voice levels, can’t hear you speak.
Bruh less worrying about mixers and more about your actual voice audio jeeesssuuusss
All the components of the Midas are Brand components, with some quality. Behringer is just a cheap thing made from cheap components
Turn up the volume. You're in the mud.