Having started out with a XR 18 and moved to the MR 18. We noticed a definite improvement in clarity with the Midas, Further, after about 2 years the XR 18 it began to have issues with the left main output, after some research we dissembled and re-seated the ribbon cables and it solved the issue... for a time we were required to do it again a few times over the years. and we finally hot glued it into place and had no further issues, (5 to 6 years total ownership), we are going on 3 years with the Midas and have had no issues with the audio at all. for $100 is a small price to pay for a better product. but I really loved them both.
Thanks for your post. I just ordered the MR18 about 30 minutes before I saw this. Same issue with my XR18. I forgot about the first time that it happened and your post reminded me. I did same repair as you and was getting ready to cancel my order and my wife said no, get the Midas keep the XR for a back-up. Again, thanks for your post.
I got a Midas MR18 about a year ago based on a recommendation from an audio technology professor (he said MR18 and XR18 stage boxes were both good options for iPad compatibility, but at the time the Midas app was working better with Apple updates than the Behringer one and I was nervous that I would accidentally update my iPad and no longer be able to use the Behringer app. He also showed me all of the features on an MR32 and I felt more comfortable with the Midas app instead of figuring out the Behringer app and getting confused later due to my horrible memory). I saw little to no reviews/TH-cam help with MR18, but a lot on the XR18, so I used those videos since a lot of the XR18 help videos worked with the MR18 due to it being almost the same product, especially with Midas and Behringer combining. I'm so excited though, I saw your video comparing the two and have realized that there are now a lot more videos on the MR18 than there used to be. I can't wait to pull it out again and test some more features on it! Thank you!!
It's certainly worth it. We just switched to the MR18, after many years of XR18 use, and it seems to be an immediate improvement. Happy 100th video!!🎉🎉
Hey thanks!!!! I was tempted to just swap them around without the testing, but it was worth the time. Lol. Glad that this test will live forever, now. That null test really showed the differences in tone in those S frequencies.
What I hear on YT is more highs and mids from the XR18, but I here more warmth in the MR18 in and around them same frequencies. I bought the Midas mr18 about 5 months ago for live use. I use an RCF system with Art-910’s and a Yamaha DXS18XLF center filled sub. I put the Stereo Combinator on my mainout and added +2 db to the lows (30 to 100) which the crossover is set to 100Hrz and then add 1.5 db to the mid highs and add 1 db to the highs. It literally has taken our sound to another level. I’ve used this now with 4 different bands I mix and everyone of the bands say their crowds are saying it’s the best they’ve ever heard them. I’ll take that!
For me, just the extra drive level of the outputs on the MR is worth the extra money. +21dBu output is relatively industry standard. +16dBu isn’t. Speaker processors for live work may need a hotter output level than +16dBu to get them up to full gain. Also, I believe all the connectors on the MR are Neutrik rather than cheap knock offs.
yeah that's a big difference in pro audio but I rather spend 160 dollars more on the allen heath cq20b that clocks internally at 96khz and can smoke the midas mr18 any day
Great video. On a smaller scale, I upgraded from a Focusrite 2i2 to an Apollo Solo, and while the difference wasn't night and day, the Apollo definitely sounded better. If I were setting up a studio, I'd go with the Midas, too. Just my 2 cents.
We use both the xr18 and the mr18, the xr18 has been going strong, the mr18 just last week had the internal ribbon problem - which is no output from any aux or main, however inputs and usb are fine. The mr18 has zif connectors for the ribbon that goes to the output board. Easy enough to fix if you are familiar with electronics and glue the zif connector down (e7000 glue), but the choice of zif connector is a major disappointment. Zif connectors release with vibration during transport. While I like the subtle difference in sound of the MR18 and the locking jacks the ribbon issue makes me wonder about their products, regardless of the $100 difference. BTW the software x-air and m-air is really 99.9% the same.
The band I'm in uses an XR18 with X-Air software, which is pretty intuitive and easy to use, especially personal monitor mixes on iPhones. I bought an MR18 for my personal use because of the upgraded hardware and preamps but really don't like the M-Air software. The iPad version soft controls (especially for input gain) are frustrating and harder to use in a live mix and there is nothing for personal monitor mixes on the iPhone that compares with the X-Air software. Is there a better software package for using with the MR18? Mixing Station perhaps?
The difference in input gain between the two may be because the MR has 5 dB more output gain. They may have shaved off the gain on the front end to keep them relatively matched on output.
Where I really notice the difference is in IEMs. When playing live, I often prefer the M32 over the X32 for this very reason. However, when I go out there as an audience member, the difference is subtle depending on the system it’s played on and size of venue.
I've had the chance to use both the XR18 and the MR18 with the same band, in the same venue, with the same PA system and saved scene. Yes, you can hear the difference between the two. However, that said, I have three XR18 mixers and no MR18 mixers. The silly reason? I don't like the locking inputs on the MR18. I try to find any way to tear down and load out as quickly as possible. The difference isn't enough for me to deal with the locking inputs. Plus, I got a great deal on each XR18 I purchased.
@G_handle what security? My mixers are not racked and sit on the stage. In the 8 years I've been using them, I've never once had a cable come loose. One band I work with has an XR18 for a monitor mixer in a rack. In the three years we've moved that rack from gig to gig in the back of a pickup, not once has a cable come loose from the mixer. In my experience, the cables connect firmly in the inputs and have never had a "security" issue. So it's really a non-issue.
I believe you said it in the end.. The XR18 for the concert and The MR18 for the studio. That extra 100$ may be useful in the studio when you said that the MR18 has more clarity if you boost the preamp.. for recording purposes.. at the concert I believe that extra 100$ doesn’t matter so much. 🤷♂️ that the conclusion for me, thank you !!
Great video Steve. I have a pretty good stack of Behringer gear, and the reason is price. The difference in these is in the Sample rate is it not? I read the XR only goes to 48Khz and the MR will do up to 192. This is for windows, not sure about mac. That is not a deal breaker for me, but might be for others. Great comparison video, thanks for taking the time.
Thanks for the great comparison, Steve! But wouldn't your Null test be fairer if instead of comparing acoustic signals saturated by the room, you compared the pure line signal from the outputs from the consoles?
Well, my goal was to test the mic preamps, mainly. They're different on these units. So, I tried to figure out a test that could do that. So, a full-bandwidth song from a fixed position in a properly treated room using the best mic I own. Since a test of the converters was not really important, I didn't just line in a recorded source. You're right, it wasn't the perfect test. But it was the best way I could show the mic preamps were in fact different.
Hi Steve. Question about the mr18. You mentioned in the video your using a Mac. I’m thinking about buying the MR 18 to downsize my set up. the budget tight so I was hoping to use my Mac. Can you tell me how that works and how you can connect an older Mac got a 2012 MacBook Pro with OS Catalina version 10.15.7 as the budget allows, I’ll pick up a tablet, but I currently don’t own one so I was hoping that I could run the MR18 with this MacBook do you know if that’s possible? Thanks for your videos congratulations on # 100.
Ok, there are two things you need to know. First, I use these as interfaces on my Mac. I can't comment on compatibility with older Macs. This means the audio is going through the MR/XR, over USB, and being handled by the Mac. That's a big job, btw. Older, slower Macs might have issues with tons of channels of audio. They might not have any issues. I really don't know. Second, the MR/XRs allow for devices to control them. Like, the adjust volumes of the channels and so forth. In a live show, for example, you may want to control the MR/XR using X Air Edit, or some other software. There's far less computing needed to do this. Like iPhones and Androids run this all day with no issues. I assume an older Mac can easily do this as well. So, depending on your application, you may have an easy time or a harder time. Happy to answer any questions.
I have a 2012 MacBook Pro and have been using this playing live and playing and recording live for a bit over a year now. The only problem I have encountered in this situation has been when I’ve had bad USB cables. Otherwise it has been very reliable and the MacBook Pro has been more than adequate to do everything that needs to be done. I actually picked up an Amazon fire tablet for under $100 and that works great to control it.
Love my MR. Probably the best single purchase I have made. Easy to control with Streamdeck. When I first got the MR I was suprised that it did not have hi-z inputs on channels 1, 2. What I found is that I can use any of the inputs for inst. level input. Can you confirm?
Really? I know the X18 (not sure about the XR18) has instrument inputs on 1 & 2 and they Sound Different than all the other channels. Found that out on a panel discussion with all matching mics.
The only way to really test this is to use both mixers in a real world situation, such as with a live band. Use a splitter and use identical mixes, eq, etc and then make a comparison. Chances are no one would be able to tell the difference in a blind test.
@@stevesrecordingtips7247 Though there are differences in mixers, given the normal operating environment of someone running a sound system with that level of mixer, it is highly unlikely that anybody would really notice a difference. Sure if some one was running those boards through high end touring speakers like an L Acoustic, Meyer Sound, etc... then perhaps it we be noticed.
While live sound is a normal use, its other normal use is in a recording studio as an interface. In that capacity, we do often care a bit more about clarity, preamp coloration, noise floor, and so forth. I use the XR18 for live and the MR18 as an interface in my studio. You do make good points about testing, and I'd agree that most FOH engineers would not probably care if one sounded slightly better than the other. Recording studios don't often think that way. We commonly upgrade a mic that is perhaps 1% better than the last one. Think of it like a race car driver chasing 1 more horsepower out of an engine. Everyday driver would not notice it. But it could be the difference that wins a race.
am i the only mr18 owner who has a headphone output volume difference between left and right channel ? i have used many different headphones already but the same bug at each
The preamp level difference has zero to do with quality. Its simply circuit design. The Midas are objectively better, even if you have to push them harder (on the digital readout)for the same level.
@@stevesrecordingtips7247 yes it is, Midas MR 18 got 16 preamp"s Pro M series, they just sound amazing , but i understand why some people buy Behringer, money is always the reason,isnt it ? :)
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Having started out with a XR 18 and moved to the MR 18. We noticed a definite improvement in clarity with the Midas, Further, after about 2 years the XR 18 it began to have issues with the left main output, after some research we dissembled and re-seated the ribbon cables and it solved the issue... for a time we were required to do it again a few times over the years. and we finally hot glued it into place and had no further issues, (5 to 6 years total ownership), we are going on 3 years with the Midas and have had no issues with the audio at all. for $100 is a small price to pay for a better product. but I really loved them both.
Thanks for your post. I just ordered the MR18 about 30 minutes before I saw this. Same issue with my XR18. I forgot about the first time that it happened and your post reminded me. I did same repair as you and was getting ready to cancel my order and my wife said no, get the Midas keep the XR for a back-up. Again, thanks for your post.
I got a Midas MR18 about a year ago based on a recommendation from an audio technology professor (he said MR18 and XR18 stage boxes were both good options for iPad compatibility, but at the time the Midas app was working better with Apple updates than the Behringer one and I was nervous that I would accidentally update my iPad and no longer be able to use the Behringer app. He also showed me all of the features on an MR32 and I felt more comfortable with the Midas app instead of figuring out the Behringer app and getting confused later due to my horrible memory). I saw little to no reviews/TH-cam help with MR18, but a lot on the XR18, so I used those videos since a lot of the XR18 help videos worked with the MR18 due to it being almost the same product, especially with Midas and Behringer combining. I'm so excited though, I saw your video comparing the two and have realized that there are now a lot more videos on the MR18 than there used to be. I can't wait to pull it out again and test some more features on it! Thank you!!
Very cool. Welcome back!
It's certainly worth it. We just switched to the MR18, after many years of XR18 use, and it seems to be an immediate improvement.
Happy 100th video!!🎉🎉
Thanks Mac! Yeah, we're hearing a real improvement especially in the drums and acoustic guitars.
Thank you for contributing to this eternal debate XR/MR, and congratulations on your 100th video🎉
Hey thanks!!!! I was tempted to just swap them around without the testing, but it was worth the time. Lol. Glad that this test will live forever, now. That null test really showed the differences in tone in those S frequencies.
I just ordered an XR-18 during the sale, but the MR-18 is so tempting. Thank you for this honest, straightforward comparison.
Awesome! I know they dropped the price like a couple of hours after the video came out, lol!
I totally grabbed Behringer on sale as well. Practically 50% less. Yeah just give me the Behringer.
What I hear on YT is more highs and mids from the XR18, but I here more warmth in the MR18 in and around them same frequencies. I bought the Midas mr18 about 5 months ago for live use. I use an RCF system with Art-910’s and a Yamaha DXS18XLF center filled sub. I put the Stereo Combinator on my mainout and added +2 db to the lows (30 to 100) which the crossover is set to 100Hrz and then add 1.5 db to the mid highs and add 1 db to the highs. It literally has taken our sound to another level. I’ve used this now with 4 different bands I mix and everyone of the bands say their crowds are saying it’s the best they’ve ever heard them. I’ll take that!
Good deal, mate 8)
For me, just the extra drive level of the outputs on the MR is worth the extra money. +21dBu output is relatively industry standard. +16dBu isn’t. Speaker processors for live work may need a hotter output level than +16dBu to get them up to full gain. Also, I believe all the connectors on the MR are Neutrik rather than cheap knock offs.
Good advice!
yeah that's a big difference in pro audio but I rather spend 160 dollars more on the allen heath cq20b that clocks internally at 96khz and can smoke the midas mr18 any day
I use an XR18 for my virtual keys and backing tracks live.
I have an MR18 in my studio for recording and tracking.
Amazing machines.
Great video. On a smaller scale, I upgraded from a Focusrite 2i2 to an Apollo Solo, and while the difference wasn't night and day, the Apollo definitely sounded better. If I were setting up a studio, I'd go with the Midas, too. Just my 2 cents.
Thanks!
We use both the xr18 and the mr18, the xr18 has been going strong, the mr18 just last week had the internal ribbon problem - which is no output from any aux or main, however inputs and usb are fine. The mr18 has zif connectors for the ribbon that goes to the output board. Easy enough to fix if you are familiar with electronics and glue the zif connector down (e7000 glue), but the choice of zif connector is a major disappointment. Zif connectors release with vibration during transport. While I like the subtle difference in sound of the MR18 and the locking jacks the ribbon issue makes me wonder about their products, regardless of the $100 difference. BTW the software x-air and m-air is really 99.9% the same.
The band I'm in uses an XR18 with X-Air software, which is pretty intuitive and easy to use, especially personal monitor mixes on iPhones. I bought an MR18 for my personal use because of the upgraded hardware and preamps but really don't like the M-Air software. The iPad version soft controls (especially for input gain) are frustrating and harder to use in a live mix and there is nothing for personal monitor mixes on the iPhone that compares with the X-Air software. Is there a better software package for using with the MR18? Mixing Station perhaps?
I still use the X-Air software with the MR18. I just swapped in the MR18 and used the same mixes and everything.
The difference in input gain between the two may be because the MR has 5 dB more output gain. They may have shaved off the gain on the front end to keep them relatively matched on output.
Could be!
Where I really notice the difference is in IEMs. When playing live, I often prefer the M32 over the X32 for this very reason. However, when I go out there as an audience member, the difference is subtle depending on the system it’s played on and size of venue.
Good to know!
I've had the chance to use both the XR18 and the MR18 with the same band, in the same venue, with the same PA system and saved scene. Yes, you can hear the difference between the two.
However, that said, I have three XR18 mixers and no MR18 mixers. The silly reason? I don't like the locking inputs on the MR18. I try to find any way to tear down and load out as quickly as possible. The difference isn't enough for me to deal with the locking inputs. Plus, I got a great deal on each XR18 I purchased.
That's totally fair! I like both of these units.
Wow.
I can't see ever choosing 30-seconds more speed over security.
@G_handle what security? My mixers are not racked and sit on the stage. In the 8 years I've been using them, I've never once had a cable come loose. One band I work with has an XR18 for a monitor mixer in a rack. In the three years we've moved that rack from gig to gig in the back of a pickup, not once has a cable come loose from the mixer.
In my experience, the cables connect firmly in the inputs and have never had a "security" issue.
So it's really a non-issue.
Great video. Thanks for making it
Many thanks, mate!
I believe you said it in the end..
The XR18 for the concert and
The MR18 for the studio. That extra 100$ may be useful in the studio when you said that the MR18 has more clarity if you boost the preamp.. for recording purposes.. at the concert I believe that extra 100$ doesn’t matter so much. 🤷♂️ that the conclusion for me, thank you !!
Happy to help, mate!
Great video Steve. I have a pretty good stack of Behringer gear, and the reason is price. The difference in these is in the Sample rate is it not? I read the XR only goes to 48Khz and the MR will do up to 192. This is for windows, not sure about mac. That is not a deal breaker for me, but might be for others. Great comparison video, thanks for taking the time.
Oooo this is interesting
Thanks for the great comparison, Steve! But wouldn't your Null test be fairer if instead of comparing acoustic signals saturated by the room, you compared the pure line signal from the outputs from the consoles?
Well, my goal was to test the mic preamps, mainly. They're different on these units.
So, I tried to figure out a test that could do that.
So, a full-bandwidth song from a fixed position in a properly treated room using the best mic I own.
Since a test of the converters was not really important, I didn't just line in a recorded source.
You're right, it wasn't the perfect test. But it was the best way I could show the mic preamps were in fact different.
where we can find this song?
Hi Steve. Question about the mr18. You mentioned in the video your using a Mac. I’m thinking about buying the MR 18 to downsize my set up. the budget tight so I was hoping to use my Mac. Can you tell me how that works and how you can connect an older Mac got a 2012 MacBook Pro with OS Catalina version 10.15.7 as the budget allows, I’ll pick up a tablet, but I currently don’t own one so I was hoping that I could run the MR18 with this MacBook do you know if that’s possible? Thanks for your videos congratulations on # 100.
Ok, there are two things you need to know.
First, I use these as interfaces on my Mac. I can't comment on compatibility with older Macs.
This means the audio is going through the MR/XR, over USB, and being handled by the Mac.
That's a big job, btw. Older, slower Macs might have issues with tons of channels of audio. They might not have any issues. I really don't know.
Second, the MR/XRs allow for devices to control them. Like, the adjust volumes of the channels and so forth.
In a live show, for example, you may want to control the MR/XR using X Air Edit, or some other software. There's far less computing needed to do this. Like iPhones and Androids run this all day with no issues. I assume an older Mac can easily do this as well.
So, depending on your application, you may have an easy time or a harder time.
Happy to answer any questions.
I have a 2012 MacBook Pro and have been using this playing live and playing and recording live for a bit over a year now. The only problem I have encountered in this situation has been when I’ve had bad USB cables. Otherwise it has been very reliable and the MacBook Pro has been more than adequate to do everything that needs to be done. I actually picked up an Amazon fire tablet for under $100 and that works great to control it.
Love my MR. Probably the best single purchase I have made. Easy to control with Streamdeck. When I first got the MR I was suprised that it did not have hi-z inputs on channels 1, 2. What I found is that I can use any of the inputs for inst. level input. Can you confirm?
Yes, I never have issues with instruments on any of the inputes.
@@stevesrecordingtips7247 strange that they don't market this.
Really?
I know the X18 (not sure about the XR18) has instrument inputs on 1 & 2 and they Sound Different than all the other channels.
Found that out on a panel discussion with all matching mics.
@@G_handle I have not tested, but I have used instruments into more than 1/2 and they sounded good to me.
Wondering who the recorded singer is?
Great comparison between the two! thanks for making it!
By the way, there is a Midas product that compete in similarities with the Behringer x32 rack?
Aye, they have sister products for several mixers. The X32/M32 range is the upgrade from the mixers in this video.
Great video bro. I want a behringer xr18. I don’t know why but I do
Sweetwater just put them on sale today. $280 off.
The only way to really test this is to use both mixers in a real world situation, such as with a live band. Use a splitter and use identical mixes, eq, etc and then make a comparison. Chances are no one would be able to tell the difference in a blind test.
I wouldn't say that is the only way to test this. It would be one way, and different from my test for sure.
@@stevesrecordingtips7247 Though there are differences in mixers, given the normal operating environment of someone running a sound system with that level of mixer, it is highly unlikely that anybody would really notice a difference. Sure if some one was running those boards through high end touring speakers like an L Acoustic, Meyer Sound, etc... then perhaps it we be noticed.
While live sound is a normal use, its other normal use is in a recording studio as an interface.
In that capacity, we do often care a bit more about clarity, preamp coloration, noise floor, and so forth.
I use the XR18 for live and the MR18 as an interface in my studio.
You do make good points about testing, and I'd agree that most FOH engineers would not probably care if one sounded slightly better than the other.
Recording studios don't often think that way.
We commonly upgrade a mic that is perhaps 1% better than the last one.
Think of it like a race car driver chasing 1 more horsepower out of an engine.
Everyday driver would not notice it.
But it could be the difference that wins a race.
Is the MR still available?
Yes. XR18 just dropped in price at Sweetwater, though. They also have MR18s at normal price.
Excellent.
Thanks!
behringer xr18 nowadays in sweetwater, 460 dollars, midas keep costing the same 830
yeah they changed the pricing right after the video hit, lol!
@@stevesrecordingtips7247 now it is indeed a game changer at that price, most behringer equipment drop a lot in prices.
am i the only mr18 owner who has a headphone output volume difference between left and right channel ? i have used many different headphones already but the same bug at each
That's an anomaly, I'd guess. Is it under warranty?
The preamp level difference has zero to do with quality. Its simply circuit design. The Midas are objectively better, even if you have to push them harder (on the digital readout)for the same level.
Agreed.
Whatever setting you got tracking you, zooming in and out, mercy. It's nauseating and adds nothing.
Yeah it's tracking on an iPhone cam. My hand gestures freak it out.
MR18 is something else !!!
It's a very cool mixer for sure 8)
@@stevesrecordingtips7247 yes it is, Midas MR 18 got 16 preamp"s Pro M series, they just sound amazing , but i understand why some people buy Behringer, money is always the reason,isnt it ? :)