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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ส.ค. 2024
- LINKS
Estimate: / ohdear
Twitch: / heedun
Twitter: / heedunyt
Discord: / discord
Instagram: / heedunirl
00:00 Introduction
04:30 How much he spent in the game
07:30 Why he P2Ws
14:00 Regrets
17:58 P2W in Other Games
24:00 RMT in BDO
30:30 How to P2W
33:30 Conclusions & Kisses
Pay-to-win
In some games, players who are willing to pay for special items, downloadable content, or to skip cooldown timers may be able to gain an advantage over those playing for free who might otherwise never be able to access said items. In general a game is considered pay-to-win when a player can gain any gameplay advantage over his or her non-paying peers, which is shown in games such as FIFA. Such games are called "pay-to-win" by critics. Market research indicates that pay-to-win mechanics are considered much more acceptable by players in China than in Western countries, possibly because Chinese players are more habituated to recurring costs associated with gaming, such as gaming café fees.A common suggestion for avoiding pay-to-win is for payments to only be used to broaden the experience without affecting gameplay. For example, some games, such as Dota 2 and StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty, only allow the purchase of cosmetic items, meaning that a player who has spent money on the game will still be on the same level as a player who hasn't. Others suggest finding a balance between a game that encourages players to pay for extra content that enhances the game without making the free version feel limited by comparison[clarification needed]. This theory is that players who do not pay for items would still increase awareness of it through word of mouth marketing, which ultimately benefits the game indirectly.In response to concerns about players using payments to gain an advantage in the game, titles such as World of Tanks have explicitly committed to not giving paying players any advantages over their non-paying peers, while allowing the users buying the "gold" or "premium" ammo and expendables without paying the real money. However, features affecting gameplay and win rate, such as purchasing a 100% crew training level, a premium account, premium vehicles, and converting experience points to free experience points, remain available for the paying customers only. pay-to-winThe sad proof that gaming is in its most dead and soul-less state so far.Several games nowadays have the option to pay real money to enhance the experience of the player, often frustrating him unless he pays up.Good ways to milk players of the money they thought they wouldn't spend in the game include: energy bars that reduce the time he can devote to his game, huge timers that need to be reduced for the player to be able to continue his journey, better gear to deal with players that don't want to pay, and, the most common one, the existence of a currency in the game that can't be earned without your credit card.Pay-to-win is sadly increasing everywhere, from small games on Kongregate to medium-sized browser games such as Epic Duel, to the larger games where you need to pay to unlock certain features, such as Injustice and Mortal Kombat.ABOUT THIS GAMEBlack Desert Online is a sandbox, living-world MMORPG. Experience fast-paced, action-packed combat, hunt monsters and huge bosses, fight with friends in a guild to siege nodes and region castles, train your life skills such as fishing, trading, crafting, cooking, and much more! Players will enjoy jaw-dropping graphics, intuitive skill-based combat, and an immersive story encased in our expansive world that’s just waiting to be explored. Accompanied by a Black Spirit, a companion whose destiny is intertwined with their own, players will discover the secret of the Black Stones and the history of their corrupting effects.FEATURESRobust Character Creation Tools - Make the character YOU want to play.Seamless Movement Throughout the World - No loading times necessary as you explore.Combo-Oriented, Non-Targeted Combat - Take part in fast-paced, action-packed combat with skills that can be chained through combos.Unique Weather and Climate - The weather and climate will have various effects on different zones that players can adapt to.Day / Night Cycle - Along with unique weather and climate changes, the game revolves around a day/night cycle that alters NPC behavior and triggers various events based on the time of day.Instanced Player Housing - From tents to palaces and everything in between, players can furnish and customize their own homes and can hire NPCs to keep your place clean or purchase things from the marketplace.Tags: Is BDO p2w in 2020, pay to win, black desert online, ohdear, estimate
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Comment here who would you like me to interview next!
choice :)
Lacari, Old storys about manup!
Biohack
interview Kyrandis, the "Lifeskill God" and his battle with tumor surgery
Pessle or Bösewicht
I sort of realized that he lives in a different world than regular people when he referred to spending $500 on a game as "minute amounts"
It’s even worse when you sit back and spend less than that 500 and you feel like your balling out 😂
he's not a whale, he is a f**king leviathan
NekoFlen space super mega galaxy whale
Craken
@@jowieonit Cthulhu
Imagine other games. In Rise of Kingdoms there is a player who spent over 1M dollars(base on his estimate) over the course of 2yrs.
Thomas Hobbes would be proud
"I have spent 160k on the game". - I love how we just casually talk about spending almost the entire cost of a full ride at Yale university on a video game.
@cougar fryer are you actually defending gambling lmao?
@@nicelysalted2523 that's what you got?
@cougar fryer you sound dumb for gambling to that extent, and dumber for trying to justify it
@cougar fryer yeah because it preys on the effect of generating dopamine when you win, gambling happens to be one of the primary reason people are killing themselves hence las vegas casinos having just about zero balconies. your last statement is an obvious reason why gambling is bad in general and should not be continued, because there are more idiots than there are intelligent people
@cougar fryer you just dont know how to use your money and don't know how to expand your view gambling is the worst addiction to have worse than any drug.
This was super interesting content dude, good job
hey peon ^^
Oho, someone is thinking of revisiting the game?
Succession Wiz OP right now, you're missing out.
Hey peon loved your ashes video its the best
Damn thats props!
“You’re either a whale of money or a whale of time.” And that’s how these p2w developers get you. They build content that is drawn out, barely playable and often times annoying so you will opt in to whale for money instead of time.
Well you can't actually choose time nat because of having more money but time is literally one of the most important things in life. So if you pay to this game you can save time on other things like real life things.
Yep. They fabricated problems with solutions in the cash shop. That's why taking this game seriously is a joke. Just be casual and don't kill yourself over gear progression.
I have money I don't want to spend reinforcing shitty monetization strategies within the industry and I don't have the time so even though I'm a devoted, competitive oriented player I get shit on by those less passionate and capable than I, and keeping up is impossible.
All I do is sail around and do battle arena with friends now while I wait for Cyberpunk to come out. Game is a joke, competition is dead.
Yeah but what else can they do? You either spend time to be the best or spend as much as you can. As he also stated even with that gear he is still getting one shot by high skilled players who has lower gear than him. What kind of system would you expect there to be to enable players to climb to top? Even if you play some MOBA like LoL you have to put in immense amounts of time to actually reach top. How many hours a day you think any pro player on any game is investing?
@@BoardWalkToke like what? weight, inventory slots, maids and pets? I mean a part from weight, they give almost everything for free, I have two extra accounts which I log in just to collect daily log ins, they have at least 200€ worth stuff each. Even a tier4 pet. Only thing that one must pay seems like weight to me...On my main acount since launch I spent like 250€ together with 30€ for the basic game and I actually bought bunch of shit that i didn"t need at all.
Dude literally spent more than my mortgage on bdo.
Dissapointing isnt it... What a waste of money
Lmfao.
@@inyalgaico1563 that's the thing. if the dude is deriving joy from his actions he's not wasting a penny. a person's happiness is important, and if he can afford to bring joy to himself this way why does it matter lmao
@@crown1138 exactly they just sound like jealous broke ppl lol
@@inyalgaico1563 Money is worthless if you got it. On the flipside. People like Jeff Bezos don't go to work to make more. They go because that's what makes them happy. Consider the insanity in that, time is more valuable than money and he uses his time to make more money that is essentially worthless to him because he couldn't spend what he has in several life times.
People like these can change the development of MMO's single-handedly, developers would of course go to where the money is. Sadly this will be the future of MMO's or any game they can shove loot boxes and "Convienience Items" into...
Normal people don't make over $2k a day. He's so rich. It's mind-boggling.
I make 150 a day lol imagine 2000 that’s freaking insane
@@leroyylowell336 I make 40 a day lol imagine 150 that's freaking insane
@@Kumawa23 I make 5 cents a day imagine making 40 thats freaking insane.
@@Dawggo I make 1 cent a day imagine making 5 cents thats freaking insane.
@@wordi4458 your hired welcome to your new job
I think this guy is single-handedly paying to run one of the servers
I just want to thank him for my costumes.
and tets
lymphy12 you know I should tell him I have a preorder up for my sorc costume 🤔 😂.
Hello im the Black Spirit
And thank you for your tri manoses
Its very juicy
now this is some unique content heedun, awesome job
I'd love to know his definition of a 'regular' job... Dude spent several times more money on this game than I've had in my entire life.
The Asian standard of a ‘regular’ job.
*Asian-American standard.
Nobody poor could afford to spend 2k a day. He's wealthy and this is a hobby
Keep selling the outfits so I won't have to pay real money for them. Thanks.
you are selling your time that you cant buy back :)
@@furkancankaya2233 it's all subjective really how you choose to use your time
@@furkancankaya2233 By nature of his statement he's already said, like almost everyone, his time isn't worth much.
@@furkancankaya2233 That is correct. As long as he's enjoying the game while he makes in-game money, then his time is well-spent in my opinion.
@@ILubBLOfficial looks like no body understand my point. what I mean is you are giving your time it means you are having fun than you can buy cloths if you like them and if you have money cause you are giving more valuable thing than money to game already. so why you mind giving cash? Ofc it doesnt matter if you like to play game. but if you like that cloth you can also give money right?
When the 1% plays BDO, I seriously can't relate. But still interesting to hear his comments.
From China and moved to the West, makes sense on why he's rich. Theres two type of immigrants from China, the kind that comes here via having a relative who already reside in the west and the second kind is the rich one that comes here via the investment program. He's definitely not a regular guy working a regular job, hes either the son of a millionaire from China or has a job that pays 200k+ a year.
Can confirm he's both. He's also a super nice and humble guy. Couldn't say a bad word about him honestly, 10/10 enjoyed playing with him every day.
This guy was throwing my monthly salary away daily. I need a new career lmao
day trade
WXLF not true at all. Some doctors, sr. software engineers etc. Plus other investments
@WXLF he is 100% a trust fund kid with extremely rich parents. This is very common in china. They send their kids to NA to go to school and give them credit cards and bank accounts with so much money that its mind boggling. I dated a girl from china like this once.
It's not a "career", he mentioned his parents are Chinese, usually these are extremely rich people who send their kids to NA to study and then go back to manage the factory where their parents made their fortune by exploiting their own people. It's all nepotism, nothing grounded in merit.
He has no career, hes living off his parents trust fund
160k reasons why I should stay away from this game.
Considering the sheer amount and the way he describes it really paints the picture of someone who lost control over an addiction. Gambling.
Well, he's just another rich dude spending lots of money on things we commoners don't really think twice not spending money on. Anyway, WOW doesn't seem so bad now.
He spent my 2 months worth of salary every day and even notice a dent. I’m gonna have a drink now and re-evaluate my.... everything.
this is the reason why MMORPGs are dead nowadays. The endless greed of the developers and people who are feeding them.
Because they need to survive bro. This game is also endless game even if you finish the story the game is still continue. Dev probably need to pay their staffs and servers bro
@@NotMonofon BDO would have enough players to survive with a subscription model like FFXIV or WoW where everyone pay the same and you have to progress by gameplay and knowledge about the game instead of real money. But they make more money with their P2W model since there too many people who are to lazy to actually play the game or who have a god complex and that's why nearly all games do have P2W mechanics nowadays which is sad.
@@yanami1241 meh would never try mmorpgs with monthly subs
@@yanami1241 i loved ffxiv but monthly sub is tedious I felt like wasting it for not playing for 1 day is scary so at the end of the day I dont like sub based mmo's. I want to have the feeling of "I can play anytime without worries of expiring playtime. Tbh, alot of people would agree as well. That gate is pretty much gonna get tedious for most of people as well. They would literally think why would they buy a game and pay monthly to play it. That is a lot to think about and very scary road for someone who just wanted to try mmo.
@@yanami1241 sure they couldve work back in the day but mmo is pretty much dead at this point that most players are now from the mmo community. Imagine putting a sub based mmo in 2020. People wouldnt crave that much because why would they do that when they can literally pay a sub on ps plus, EA access, and especially the xbox game pass wherein they can get tonsss of games monthly. Compare that to a single game u already paid and have to pay monthly to just play again. This aint the early 2000's anymore. So there you go. Brand new sub based mmo would never work out in 2020 onwards anymore for those reasons alone.
"My girlfriends not here" so I spend $160k on BDO LOL. I think the biggest issue is that whales see this as a competition and a game. They race to the top to get some sort of notoriety. No one really digs deep down and realizes that they have legitimate addiction issues. Lots of people have extra cash, working engineering/compsci jobs for $80k/year living on $10k/yr expenses.
Addiction doesn't have to destroy your life, but imagine choosing between retiring at 30 with 400k in the bank, or retiring at 60 with 40k in the bank.
I get that people can choose to do what they want with their own money but spending that much on a video game is not right even if you can afford it. You can find that same joy without spending that much cash. Guy probably loved the fact that he could swipe his way into dominating other players. I'd be embarrassed to say that I spent that much even if I was a millionaire.
@@Kootsworth Ill meet you halfway. Playing the game and actually enjoying it is good but the amount of time needed in BDO to reach what he achieved is ridiculous. What I make in 10hrs grinding this guy can make in one swipe.
His money, his rules.
@@Isadroid exactly
Who in their right mind would retire at 30 with only 400k lol
The amount of money casually thrown around in this conversation is mind boggling, if you're $150,000 deep into a game, this is a gambling addiction with a mmo skin. We see it now with AAA games, EA Fifa packs... it's getting children addicted and no one is regulating this. Dangerous, really dangerous
W H A L E
Emm pso2 its roulet skinn game with a premium acount but i am totaly free and i have all of the skins i wanna
it depends on your spending power and habits, if you listen to the interview some of the money he would spend eating out anyways, so its not like he's spending extra cash on the game. If i go out on a night out and it cost me 200 bucks, and i choose to stay home that night and just spend 200 on pearls, whats the harm? if anything its healthier for me to stay home and game than drink that much right?
It's not a gambling addiction if u can afford it, if u think 100k is alot ur obviously broke lol
@@zayda304slaya9 oh look, a trust fund baby :)
31:30 that was a really nice play... hiding in the bush, and then going in after everyone is dead to wipe a bunch. WP
the equivalent of being subscribed to wow for 1200 years
"as long as you are not promoting it explicitly"
said ohdear, to 80k people watching the video
And people like this, is exactly why the gaming industry is doomed.
-You PLAY the game for entertainment.
-He SPENDS *real world* money in the *GAME* for entertainment.
-You both play the SAME game by the SAME rules....but not really.
-There are effectively TWO different rule sets in the game: One for the *legitimate player,* and one for the *whaling player.* The game will ALWAYS have a severe preference for the whaling player.
This is the fundamental basis of why PayToWin is extremely destructive to the gaming spirit. It is why I completely replaced gaming with a better hobby (though I still occasionally tag up the single player gems like Persona 5 or Ghost of Tsushima a couple times a year).
Devs will create a game with an insane amount of potential (like BDO), then *turn it to shit,* to cater to whales/gamblers like this guy. This effectively ruined gaming for me. Micro-transactions, gambling, and filthy rich kiddos has destroyed this art form, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it if you are a honest player.
Many games are similar and we only bitch about EA.
as yes, the industry understander has logged on
I'm sorry but you're naive. Games aren't charity they are businesses which means they need to make money. They invest so much money to make a game, hire hundreds of computer engineers, marketing staff, graphic designers etc. Those "honest players" you mentioned are leechers not supporting the game they enjoy. They may not be able to afford it and that's fine but you shouldn't make people who pay for what they enjoy feel bad. Some people work all day they don't have the time to grind so they make it up with the money they earn. They grind in real life. There is nothing wrong with that. They didn't make this game for you, they didn't make this game so that you can sit back and play all day for free, they made it to make money, support their employees and create entertainment as a side effect. Welcome to the real world.
he's banned now anyway xd
@@Opethian181 Then charge a damn subscription so that everyone's on a relatively even playing field. Add a cosmetic cash shop if you really want to appeal to the whales (and even this doesn't work with tradable items, since you now have a group of players with massive amounts of in-game currency that influence your economy).
Your argument of 'grinding in real life' just proves why this model is exploitative and broken. You're better off *not* playing and achieving progress more quickly than someone who actually spends time in your MMO. So the ideal model is ... have a few people that spend thousands each month, but barely play. These are the Asian dead grinders like Archeage - BDO's just the latest one. Because why would anyone spend their free time in a real-life wealth simulator?
Your average MMO player is running a marathon while some dude with a gambling addiction runs them over with a Ferrari. MOStein is right.
i think whaling is okay if the person doesn't harm himself with it
but the fact that you can spend 160k on BDO without reaching kind of a limit ingame is insane
Dood you need to open your eyes. I don't give a fuck if someone wants to hurt them self. Your life, your choices, your consequences. Not saying don't help someone with a problem if you can. Just what you do to yourself is your business.
The problem here is that whaling hurting you, and me, and every other gamer. Companies are using this model to develop game specifically to feed that need to buy more advantages. That means the games are no longer built as games, to be enjoyed, but more like drugs to get you hooked. You never quite get that perfect high, just need to spend a little more to reach that next level.
@@darthinvaderzim long drawn out way to say you are mad at pay 2 win but ok
@@darthinvaderzim imagine being poor LOL
@@darthinvaderzim
There's already more computer games that I plan to play than I will have time to in my life. So even if every future game is some gacha whale bait, that hardly affects me. That said, there's 0 reason to think that's true - actually it's easier than ever to fund and publish your own game, leading to a variety of monetization tactics.
Lil late to the party, but I can agree on the peer pressure part. The first MMO I played my guild was full of some now friends that had cosmetics for days, so as I grew up and threw the game I too started to grow a collection. People would look at me and be like "you're a whole new type of whale" and to me it just seemed normal etc. because that's how I kinda grew up playing the game. I also merched everything I have which I believe people dont understand, so it's a bit different.
I guess my point, the people you're around can definitely pressure you or form what kind of player you become. Interesting nonetheless.
I like how he admits he spends gargantuan amounts of money and still says people in less gear blow him apart. Thats the thing about bdo the moment you hit 261 - 269 ap no ones surviving your combos the moment you land it unless they have insane evasion.
You can easily get to 261 - 269 without dropping a dime and most players are gonna get destroyed at that ap.
Especially with succession classes will utterly devastate you.
There really is no true winning.
P2w is cool only on large scale war lol , 1v1 still skill base only , crying about it on show how lazy and retard they are :)))
True that, you don't need to spend money to get to that level.
i've played since december last yr and im 269/324 rightnow without spending a single dime.
You would say the same thing if you spent $160 on a game.
TLDW: Your way of winning if you swipe is literally 0.
You still get melted, you have to spend insane amounts to get silver and after Full PEN + Full TET Accs which is achievable without swiping you literally do it for the completionist sake.
The rest of his swiping was just spent on his gambling addiction.
He’s acknowledge just entertainment not gains, not addiction when you got it like that.
Consistency is key. A friend of mine treats BDO like a sub game still (tho since CM he didnt spend a single cent outside of VP's).
Well long story short he is full PEN 305AP kutum makeing around 1-1,5b a day without touching a single mob. That said he recently got 1,95k masterie in pretty much all lifeskills. While sustaining a job, house, wife and pets.
Its all abour dedication and being efficent even tho its not always fun and of course comitment to mostly a single game.
This is like confession of an addict.
Are you something shiny on discord i remember your pfp...
Estimate talked about his RMT a month ago saying it's untraceable and then gets banned. LMFAO nice job!
He deleted his twitch account
@@zao9256 he pretty much admitted to doing it. All of NA knew he was doing it.
Wait why was he banned?? Guy spent 160k $ lol
@@shtooi Cause he RMT'd
@@jiannotto9492 i dont play the game. whats RMT?
Wow suddenly I don't feel so bad spending 1000 dollars in BDO on Xbox, but I still Regret doing so because I still get one shot by punks.
i spent 100 and i regret
@@mukkujr7949 i spent 20 and i regret
@@onusai i spent 10 and i regret
@@LouisAle49 i spent nothing and i regret
Me: I can't believe he spent that much...
My Steam account: 447 games purchased.
I'm at 1300..
most of the games i get on steam are 5-22$ still cheaper than what he's blowing on a game that could shutdown. That or he could get banned or hacked.
@@user-dz3lo4wh1q the account he swiped that money on actually got banned , no joke.
@@Lasse_kreikemeier I know. And he used his trust fund money on the game.
All on discount and all seemed like a good idea at the time.
Casually even saying 30k as the lowest number makes me sick man
Hold up, ESTIMATE?? He was my previous guild leader
@Mister Educater banned? what for LOL imagine getting banned after spending that much
Can casually spend 2k a day without noticing a difference wtf, what job is this
well if he can spend 2k a day and not noticing any difference i guess he makes 2m+ a year lol
2k a day for a month lmao, not a year.
jesus most people make that in 2 months
@@XBullitt16X No.. Most people do not make 2k in two months, or the homeless rate would be 70%
He is chinese and very young. I can almost 99% guarentee you that he has a huge trust fund. My friend that is chinese and plays bdo is in the same position.
People like him are paving the way of a very bleak future for any kind of video games. The fact that it doesn't hurt him doesn't mean it doesn't have real impact on everyone else inside that ecosystem. Very self-centered takes, some epic mental gymnastics as well.
you are correct, and wise
Doesn't even understand the concept of p2w, thinking that buying an account is the same.
Ironically the same demeanor he has, is what I've noticed on many other whales trying to defend their spending.
BDM was littered with these whales, buying up the entire shop everyday and flexing in all chat or just trashing lower guilds.
The game is definitely P2W, but is also is a shit P2W, because over-time, everything you paid for will be almost worthless.
Which makes them even more stupid in my books.
thats like crying about that sportscars exist while you can only afford a toyota prius, thats life
@@RezzaBDO no, its like crying about someone printing money ( or in this case, buying ) and pumping it into the economy causing irreparable inflation meaning the price of items skyrockets and becomes unachievable for the average player. Just look at retail WoW for proof that this has a catastrophic impact on the player ecosystem.
Idk companies need to make money these games are incredibly expensive to maintain let alone develope new content for. If the average player had money they would spend money on the things they enjoy. I think this is just another manifestation of irl income inequality that is happening.
Interesting interview. Never had a huge issue with p2w but I guess thats from playing so many you kinda just get usto it being part of the game, or people yelling about it all the time that you juse become tone def to it. Thanks for sharing this
"There is not that many things to spend on.. maybe 80k" X.X
Super well done interview! Nice work
I have never spent a dime on this game apart from buying it at full price when it first launched. I am currently comfortably sitting at 280 kutum ap 350 DP just by playing the game 3 hours per day where one hour each day i grind for profit and the rest i spend on processing various mats my workers gather and then selling all of that on market and buying all the gear i need or various events that are going on, i never enhance and i sell everything i don't need. I only keep caphras that i get from grinding which i put into my pen gear. Bottom line, you just need to manage your time in the game correctly and set a clear goal for yourself and try to stick to it as much as you can, and i could be making way more profit if i really wanted to but 3 hours a day is more then enough for me. Certainly not the fastest way of doing things, but probably the least expensive on while i can still somewhat keep up with the big boys. For me, that is enough but then again im not much into pvp, do it only occasionally with the guild or in RB. You def don't need to swipe at all to be competitive, it will take longer to take there but it is much more satisfying knowing that when you do you did it through hard work and not by swiping
"I have never spent a dime on this game"
Oh boy I hate break it to ya...
Cap
as interesting as this is I cant shake the feeling of disappointment because its these kind of players who enable the bad practices but a las I guess my point in mute because people will spend their money on dumb shit all the time
i dont think this kind of player can be consider as enabler.. lets be real, how many player can afford spending on avg 4k usd per PEN item. I think whale is kinda detrimental for the game development as well cause game company need money to pay for the development of the game and other stuff.
Wow definitely no reason to be disappointed in these players.
That's like me saying im disappointed in people who buy front row seat tickets to the basketball game so that I can't.
I just don't bother going for front row seats... Just like I don't bother playing BDO. The GAME enables big spenders and big spenders ARE their player base and target consumer. If you arnt spending money on BDO, THEY DON'T WANT YOU THERE.
You can be upset about it, but that's the fact. No reason to be upset at another person who is in their target market.
Go play a game like ffxiv or wow who's target market is not people looking to spend consistently
@@MrKooderna thats not even close to a correct or accurate comparison
Hes obviously got enough money for it not to matter how he spends it so why wouldnt he sit there and spend 2k a day on a game he loves, it hardly effects 99% of the bdo playerbase so im not sure how much of a problem it really is. Obviously theres people on both sides here and anyone that thinks the game is P2W will argue with me for hours I just dont really understand why everyone takes it so seriosuly its a G A M E primarily played as PVE like seriously.
Lmao people seems to think that whales enable microtransaction in games. It's called MICROtransaction. While game companies won't outright ignore the whales, the casual spenders are usually the main focus cuz that's where the money's at.
That's not financial freedom kids , this is a interview with an addict btw
either that or he's really god damn rich. i mean if you're earning millions and millions, what's 100k?
@@Syn741 Exactly
@@Syn741 It is still addiction in my opinion. I mean you could spend little for alkohol and still drink everyday, which is seen as addiction.
@@graphenaishata7960 for this case it's different. just because someone has a higher budget to spend on the game you call it an addiction? If I earn 1million every month and budgeted 200k for the game. still doesn't count as an addict. being an addict means that if you remove something that he is addicted to, he will go ape shit crazy. which doesn't seem like the case. To me, it just seems like he just wants a fast progression by using the spare cash that he has.
How can this be an addiction if it doesnt affect him in a bad way nor the people around him?
You really see the coping mechanisms that are at work here:
"You don't have to pay money to enjoy the game, it's a choice/personal preference" - Ignoring the proven fact that games are actively designed to be grindy and boring to trick you into spending money, in PvP games, by design, a paying player will always wreck a F2P player. It becomes not a test of your skill, but a test of how much money you have. Same applies to leaderboards, "world first" challenges and so on.
"It's not pay to win, you only get minimal advantages" - which is why you paid for literally all of them. They got you. On top of that, pay to win doesn't actually mean you "win" the game, it's that you have a mechanical advantage over someone who didn't buy a specific item.
"You either spend a lot of money, or a lot of time" - yes, because the game is designed to be bad. This is what I meant above. Singleplayer or older MMO games had to design the game so it wasn't grindy. P2W games just don't have to bother, because they can sell you something that makes the game less grindy and more fun.
"I'm not a gambling addict, I just do it for the entertainment" - yeah, right. Like a gambling addict.
This guy shows the signs of addiction - spending habit, not being able to control himself, while using false logic and coping mechanisms to reassure himself he isn't doing anything wrong. And it's totally not his fault. He's a poor guy getting taken advantage of by a greedy publisher in a really unscrupulous industry. They operate like drug cartels or casino owners. Fuck the P2W industry, seriously.
Great interview, and I applaud the honesty by Estimate. Great job guys
with that GS he still getting clapped
I have an issue with what I believe is deception on his part. He comes from a wealthy family as he mentions. How he bought everything most likely came from a trust fund.
He acts as if he is spending his own money. I highly doubt it. This man has a full blown addiction financed by his families money.
cool interview, estimate is a chill af guy. invited me to his discord a few months ago and helped me out a bit when i started
I found this by sheer chance, was absorbed in this every moment.
This was a super cool listen, I definitely think some of his views were slightly skewed to to make himself not feel as bad about quite the extent he's reached, however there's also a lot of decent reasoning as well. Despite not being a fan of spending ludicrous amounts of money on games, I do believe that people have very biased or narrow minded views when it comes to spending money on games. The way I see it is that if you're getting enjoyment from these games and what you are doing is not having a seriously negative impact on you or the people around you's lives, it is within reason to be okay. Especially when its on a game that you've dumped potentially thousands of hours into, playing over multiple years. Most people wouldn't bat an eye when they hear someone spending x thousands or 10's of thousands of dollars on a new car, which immediately depreciates thousands of value from simply driving it off of the shops car park, however those same people would possible then scrutinize someone who's spent their income on their hobby/escape or whatever else you label gaming as. I think having a physical item heavily skews people's views, and while that's understandable and within reason to appreciate more over something non physical, it can create a very biased view point.
Its ridiculous from the perspective of anyone with average income, but I get the feeling if he didn't spend the 160k on bdo that he would have spent it on some other past time. Vacationing around, whores, expensive food, who knows what else. Thats just the money he has to burn. If he has siblings they probably spend a similar amount on their hobbies.
'The way I see it is that if you're getting enjoyment from these games and what you are doing is not having a seriously negative impact on you or the people around you's lives, it is within reason to be okay.'
I have a lot of problems with that statement. A lot of people cash out in pay to win games at the EXPENSE of other people their experience. How is it okay that 99% of the playerbase gets fucked over by whales in p2w games cause they have an unfair advantage. This is from an article I read before: About 0.15 percent of mobile gamers contribute 50 percent of all of the in-app purchases generated in free-to-play games. You do realize that publishers of video games decide to introduce CANCEROUS game mechanics, horrible grind and other bullshit cause they cater to
@@___Robin___ Most of the games that are like that(mobile games), that have people spend money at the expense of other players happiness come from China. As explained in the video they have a different view on paying to win. As for games that do it for a predatory reason for them to earn more money and for players to only be able to progress through the game with micro transactions, those are games that definitely have something wrong with them but then again that’s their marketing strategy and if you don’t like that then don’t play them, that way it won’t affect your enjoyment. Online games have to earn their money from somewhere and make profit and most of that time it comes from in app purchases, most good and fun games don’t have a lot of ways for players to pay to win with only money. If it really ruins your experience and your joy with a game than I don’t really agree with you because to me it seems fair, they made and earned that money and therefore are able to spend it on a game they like. Most of the people that are f2p that I talk to in these games understand that and although may not like not being able to catch up without spending a lot of time are understanding about it. I also don’t agree with that microtransactions should only be in single player free to play games. I would agree with single player and online games that cost money to play but not with games that are free to play as that is how they make their profit.
When I buy boots for hiking or chalk for climbing or sth ike that, the money spend stands in some relationship to the thing having to be made.
In the pay2win game, it's just a matter of developers, arbitrarily coming up with prices to toggle an option.
Spends 160k in game, gets banned for RMT. How careless can you be?
he got banned?
Great interview Heedun, look forward to seeing more from you.
More to come!
If you're paying money to skip the grind then you shouldn't play the game because clearly either it's badly designed or it's not your kind of game.
you led the conversation really well. solid work sir
28:28 we have those advertisements on eu in world chat too. Rmt happens a lot more than you think in eu trust me 😳 no one talks about it now but if bdo were to ever close then people would start talking and open up about it
"Nobody should judge how you spend the money you earn."
When the money you spend is making the video game market rot form the inside out, I will judge.
Wonderful interview, very entertaining and always nice to see someone else's perspective.
I only subbed because u dont said it 100 times like other YT´s xD Nice Vid =P
Thank you, it means a lot :*
i buy one outfit and feel bad that i spent money xD
So strange that he admits it's an addiction, he admits he has regrets, but when he got banned and had the perfect opportunity to move away for a bit, he bought an account and got right back into it.
Why was he banned?
His new account is 715 gs now xD
Whale + "gambling addiction" = salivating Korean MMO publisher/developer.
I played EVE Online, another game where people routinely spend thousands on the daily. This conversation came up once in a fleet and the whales response was, "I work monday - friday and make a lot of money. How is this any different than buying bottle service and cocaine for the party every weekend? This is my bottle service."
I have a whale in my guild that says the same thing. He stopped drinking and instead whales on BDO.
If you have the money it's yours to spend, entertainment is entertainment whether it be spending thousands on bdo or cars or board games, it's all the same.
Finally someone with common sense :)
It all chalks up to what he said. Time is money, pay to save time. Some people have time, some have money, some both. I always say if u spend about 20 bucks month, maybe less or a little more(which is a WoW subscription basically) u can have a blast and incrementally speed up your progress. But I believe a slow pace at BDO is the best pace, the journey is the best part. Such an awesome game that doesn't need to be rushed. Personally, since Beta I've spent around 2~3k I think. Mostly cosmetics, artisan memories, and gambling. I enchant my own armor and accessories. Anyways, love the community!! Love the BDO community! Have a blast playing the best mmo to date and may the Black Spirit and RNGbus be with you!!
ah the nostalgia of re watching these vids is amazing
NA: People live to work. EU: People work to live
As for pay to win which constantly gets mentioned - win what?
if you had to go deep into it. Alot of different things. time being 1 out of many
Win nothing, gg.
Waste of time but some people consider it enjoyment so it's just like someone who travels, it's just their way of life. They dont win anything, it's just being top of the gear grind.
19:30 must be nice ;.; I am still 0/74 on pen and I've been playing for almost 3 years. I just casual play now and I don't give two shits about gear. I just do T1's for PvP and then mess around the rest of the time.
But isnt it sad that after all that time invested, thats what it became? That should be the point here, is that after all that money and time the game is still trash
Things that probably aren’t covered in this to save face is the absurd level of rmting and piloting done to also get to this point. Especially the piloting, I guarantee the amount spent on that isn’t being mentioned as it is against TOS, and he for sure does it, so he p2wd his account in all aspects legitimately or illegitimately.
I'm from Brazil, and in here the P2W is extremely expensive. The people who are able to do p2w are extremely rich and thats why we dont really call it a p2w game but a P2 FAST game. And thats true, people buy pets, tent, weight, etc. just for the sake of having a smother and faster progress. However, that doesnt make u go all the way to the top. Also, what i think is a p2w game is a game that ur not really allowed to play without spending a huge amount of money.
No, it's pay to lose.
So sad, i genually feel sad for him. The personality issues u have to have to p2w and try to make reason of it...
Suddenly I don’t feel bad about the $1000 I sunk into the game over the years
I definitely think that there is some truth to NA having more players using real money for progression compared to EU. It would explain why, from what i have seen, there are always pearl shop items on the market in NA, where as here in EU there are almost non what so ever, and almost all of the pearl items have hundreds if not thousands of pre-orders on them.
Anyways, this was a really great and interesting video.
Pay 2 lose. The more you pay the more your inclined to play a trash dead game
and it's been dying for a while , will always have a population obviously even eq1 still has a population but is no where close what it used to be. there's only so many ocd people in the world willing to grind the same rotation over and over and over.
That is so true man, I've spent 1000s of $ on in game currencies and I always feel trapped afterwards so I can't quit the game even after i stop enjoying it
I found funny how people get angry at a person spending 150k in a game, if people would know how other spends from gambling, partying, hookers etc etc way more than 150k
difference is you are spending money on Pixels the others are living life, stop justfying being a whale in-game
@@NightElveee man you are justifying drugs and prostitution, you should seek help bro
@@CaliCG89 call it what you want, btw i've never taken any alcohol or drugs i grew up straight edge, but gamers using excuses and justfying spending their entire time and money on Pixels is the saddest thing ever,
and to add what a dumb analogy you have, you legit had to compare gaming to another -ve extreme side of life just speaks volumes on how worthless it is, you could have referenced something else positive, maybe like spending time with friends/family or travelling
Imagine your parents giving birth to you and you end up wasting time and money resources on pixels,
@@NightElveee First, I am not defending the spending of huge amount of money on games so lets agree on that please, what I am criticizing is people condemning the act of spending in games but we normalize other huge spending like prostitutions and drug that are far more dangerous behaviors.
As you I personally value more spending time with family and friends and spending 160k on anything is really dumb unless is house or education. 160k in a game or 160k in car is equally dumb, so people in general don't have any problem on a celebrity spending 20m on summer house they probably never will live on but 160k in game everyone loses their mind.
@@NightElveee it's called a hobby. There's a lot of weirder hobbies compared to video games. If the man can afford it, why not?
Imagine spending $2,000 a day on helping a homeless person on the street…imagine how many lives you could change.
This BDO player spent 160k while the PH BDM player spent almost 700k (he quitted now, migrated to another game).
He's the biggest whale of the whales in global mobile mmorpg
"spent wisely" he said: droped 160k in this game :DDD
I mean if he got it, throw it. What’s wise to you?
@@MrChickenicecream 160k to him is like 100$ to us..
he drops 160k in a game that he knows he is gone play for yrs. if he goes out and parties every week. 160k won't last more than 6 months. wise investment
160k is seriously not a lot of money to someone that spends that on a game... It's all about perspective, whats a lot to you might be insignificant to others... The only time I would say he didn't spend it wisely is if he were to actually be spending money he cant afford to spend...
he also said spend the amount that doesn't hurt your life style or wallet. and so he did. If 160k doesn't hurt his life style, you know how bloody rich he is to be able to spend this amount of money on a game. that's something a lot of us don't have.
ahh shit estimate out here killin interviews, this was good stuff. and yeah a lot of people dog on p2w in bdo but the extent is so much better than other mmos. Like if you whale on blade and soul you become nearly immortal, but in bdo you can still get killed by any succ class no matter how much you whaled, but again, what "winning" is, is different for everyone, but its pvp performance for most ppl.
Thanks for funding the odylita expansion I'm really enjoying it so far
Hes a lot more reasonable than I would be about the catch up mechanics of BDO, if I paid that much money for progression then BDO starts handing out mega xp boosts and mega gear freebies, Id be quite triggered.
he spend in a month what ill gain in 10 years...
You must be on country between second world or third world country. I can relate because it also what ill gain in more than few year.
@@starrynight3945 500/month (chile btw)
I think most people wouldn't understand that BDO might be the cheapest addiction for him. There's whole lot more self harming things and money you can spend out there.
Yeap - i tossed $100 a day into my arm, got clean and now rocking a sweet rig and game all the time!
@@pollacksify That's awesome to hear keep it up.
BDO is basically Pay to progress, and also pay for convenience. F3 feature is speeding up progress or saves from downgrading gear(not all of it) like Cron Stones for example.
Thank you for sharing this interview. Sharing it to my guild. More awesome content! From EatAllYouCan Guild - BDO SEA :3
nice video, that was really entertaining
I have mad respect for this guy, he is literally carrying the rest of us.
Him and King Whale aka kiing berserker
@ice the gun If it wasn't for guys like this there would be sub fee or much more content being hidden behind a pay wall.
@ice the gun you are comparing apples and oranges
@@lmoral222 What do you mean? King berserker is a 1 shot, lol. Literally killed him the other day, when killed me when i was afk.
@@Sorasdream I mean he whales his ass off on stream, carrying the rest of us regular fish. Not even talking about how low geared he is.
This game with these settings literally looks like Metin2 lol.
R.I.P Metin2
Is this a low graphic setting?
@@lenkagamine80 yeah lowest prob
@@Rufofeli Thank you. ^^
Really good video! Keep up the work Big Boi!!!
This guy should call Dave Ramsey just so I can see his reaction to this shit
I like when he say at 6:33 ..new player not understand how long to get tri boss gear...when i start this game..i used tri full set grunil to grind at better spot like fogan then try snipe clean boss gear on old cm..lol good old days
Been playing the game since release, this is the first time I hear about the offin tet flipping method is it really that high of a percentage ppl do stuff like this?
This is one of the most interesting videos on bdo on youtube. More power to you man
Agreed
And here’s me worrying about my wife finding out how much I’ve spent....thanks for making me feel better.
No worries, she spent on real life outfits, probably more
@@loliSuziloli plot twist his wife makes all the money in the family
If you spent 160k on a game i hope you and the company eventually go bankrupt. Now i know why this cancerous shit keep getting worse by the day. FFS...
So if i spend money on the game would i be stronger than another person who doesnt? pvp wise? or if i decide to not do pvp lets say i love doing some other activities does swiping gives me any advantages over other ppl that dont that they cant do the same by just grinding?
"Most people think it's bad to play a P2W game" nah bruv, we don't think, it IS indeed bad to play a P2W game xD
Yeah. I'll never get the attitude "the game's so shit I actively pay money to play less of it but instead of just playing a game I want to sink the time into, I'll continue playing this shit game".