Konami's excuse for not including a paper playmat ranged from a) we figure by now everyone had one from previous releases we've done over the years, to b) we're trying to cut back on paper material for "the good of the planet" . when in reality it was cost cutting since they figured no one would use the paper mats and they are hand over fist supposedly lossing money in the West.
Cimo: "They're going to spend more time reading text than playing the game" Me playing Master Duel: "What the fuck does this card do?" Reads 2 paragraphs of text
Tbh, even MD does better job with new players. You got tutorials for simple mechanics, with latest update new players get Swordsoul deck which is amazing, as it has both simple combo lines to start off and can branch out in something more complex. Also during duel lots of annoying stuff is automated and it also highlights important/relevant text to help people focus.
The fact that it's a starter deck for two players and they didn't even include something as a playmat or a rulebook. Either it was a massive oversight, they had way too much faith in the comic, or they just wanted to actually appeal to players for the Zeus reprint
This isn't just lackluster for someone starting out, it's downright misleading. You can't use these decks to play anything resembling modern Yu-Gi-Oh!.
My favorite part of the book is the brief little bit of it acknowledging that pendulums exist, and also even admitting that making them was a bit of a mistake.
I'm pretty sure I've said this before, but I'd love to see some kind of modern Duel Academy themed video game designed to gradually introduce mechanics and deliberately expand your card pool that someone looking to learn Yugioh can go to for a paced introduction to all of the mechanics. It's just not something that any singular starter deck would be able to cover nearly as well.
Before I played Master Duel, I played a lot of Legacy of the Duelist. I'd say it prepared me pretty well for the complexity of Master Duel and the TCG, and because the story mode takes you in chronological order through dozens of duels from each of the first six anime series (Duel Monsters through VRAINS), it gradually introduces you to new archetypes and summoning mechanics in a way that I never found overwhelming. It differs from the game as it's played today mainly in that the card pool doesn't go past 2019 or so, hand traps and other generic staples don't appear that often, and your NPC opponents don't generally perform large combos or set up much disruption. Still, it definitely teaches you pretty much all of the mechanics.
This comment gives me big Earl's Academy from Pokemon Stadium 2 vibes. It's so easy to look at the modern internet and think a lot of this info is super easy to find, but making tutorials engaging and thorough does such a better job teaching than a Reddit dump. It's a shame GX isn't in the nostalgia box at the moment, because this idea is legit goated and I'd pay for a fun gamified tutorial.
The Legacy of the Duelist campaign is definitely along the lines of what I'd want to see, but it's more concerned with recreating anime duels than actually teaching mechanics and strategies.
A game with a roguelike mode that uses primarily free agent cards would help as well, and could help make people just generally more fond of the generic "pack filler" cards. In Yugioh there's kinda a difference between getting the game mechanically and getting the game functionally. Because of how archetype-focused it is, learning the game through an archetype - even a beginner-friendly one - is oftentimes harder than starting with piles of generic cards. Like you give someone Mo Ye and they might understand why it's a good card but not get why Mo Ye is so much stronger than, for instance, Masked Chameleon. One of the hardest parts of getting into the game is probably that in order to play a deck you need to understand like every card in it and how they interact. To go back to the "new player" discourse from for instance Rarran when Farfa taught him Salamangreat, all he did was explain how to do the core Salamangreat combo but after that Rarran said, "So how does this deck win?" all he knew was how to go through the motions of doing the combo. Yugioh is often compared to fighting games and to use the example it's the same as saying, "Do the combo trials to learn the game" even though most games that's the WORST way to "learn" it. Teaching someone about how the game actually runs on mid to high level shouldn't be what a starter focused product goes for, it's a foregone conclusion.
@@Zetact_ man an Arena-like mode for Master Duel or Duel Links is something I didn't know I wanted until I read your comment. Yu-Gi-Oh has done drafting in the past but my impression is that it didn't really pan out.
Difference is he had test subjects to collect data on how potential new players would react Isn’t that weird though should Konami have gif here’s a couple people without any experience to see how they would react
I think Visas Starfrost is fine to include. It has a lot of text, yes, but the effects are pretty simple, and it teaches you a lot of things about modern yugioh : - Most of the time, monsters with high levels will have an effect to put them on the board - Effects can have conditions to fullfill to be activated - Effect can be activated in the hand - It teaches what are monster Attributes and Types - It has a battle effect, which reinforces the basics of combat and ATK/DEF interactions
It also synergizes with the intended Synchro monster they want you to treat as your boss monster (Prime Heart). The problem was not adding more of the mannadium monsters
on the other hand, while you are right about all that, the point Cimo is trying to make is that if you have absolutely zero knowledge about the card game itself, something like this might not be something you want someone to remember starting from scratch... now something like an "intermediate difficulty" set, would certainly be worth putting Visas into... Prime-Heart, or hell, ANY of the ED "Heart" Monsters kind of expect you to understand the archetype mechanics, being the boss... so it might fall a bit more "advanced"... shit, try explaining Tearlaments and why it's so good (or Kashtira and why facing it sucks) to some random shmuck who knows nothing on how to play... it's like shoving a summer school session into the span of 5-10 minutes
So I actually design board games semi-professionally now. 'The teach' is the most important part and basically your job as a game designer is to make the game as easy to learn as possible while still providing the full game experience. The problem with Yu-Gi-Oh is... A bit more intrinsic to the state of yugioh. We saw with Rarran that yuguoh simply doesnt play intuitively with its mechanics... Meaning theres a huge logical leap that has to be made between learning the mechanics and getting sold into yugioh. I dont think this problem is solvable without a third party (fans introducing other people to the game). Which is a massive problem for the longevity of a game. The easiest way to describe this is as follows: the moment a card asks a player to search their deck for a card, a new player is completely lost. They need to know what 40 other cards are in their deck, combo lines, etc. but every single deck in yugioh plays this way... So how do you provude a new player experience that is accurate to the game?
That’s a keen insight. I’m a retournee, follow meta but don’t know old decks So during the Legend Anthology Acceleration festival in Master Duel I’ve been forced to play T.G. And Heroes for the first time. With T.G. When I activate Rocket Salamander and the menu opens up I immediately feel lost and confused because there is no obvious target (eg. Trickstar Lillybell, Snake Eyes Poplar, Ancient Warriors- Ingenious Zhuge Kong) so my comboing feels kind of pointless. I think the goal is to Special summon the lvl 12 which negates a summon, along with the 12 that banishes a monster, to refresh the negate, pitching the counter trap to the grave somewhere along the way to set it by its effect. (In the loaner deck at least. People playing their own T.G. Deck just summon calamity.) Vs. Heroes. Stratos is the clear “stratos”. Vision hero Faris is clearly the best target. Which then places Vision hero increase to summon Vyon to pitch shadow mist and I figured this out in about 2 battles. (If the single copy of vision hero increase is in your opening hand that’s a scoop 😝) While I dislike a game plan that is TOO linear or All gas/autopilot (Kashtira and Branded/Mathmech respectively) I find Archetypes like T.G., Mannadium, Superheavy Samurai that require advanced study to develop any competency with due to xeno locks and unintuitive interactions exhausting. Perfect balance is achieved by decks which have enough resources to compete but limited enough to force you to make meaningful decisions. Examples. Lyrilusc, Vaylantz, Generaider, Tearlaments, Dinos.
The most fun deck IMO is Icejade. But I don’t think its well designed because until you put 1 + 1 + 1 together and figure out how to Curse Lock/Kosmo lock the deck does nothing. But most of the fun of the deck is that opponents will not read Kosmochlor either. So it’s opaqueness is its strength. The deck does Not have enough gas. And so you have to pretty much rely on extremely lucky draws in which case you can clobber tier 1 decks. It’s that intermittent reward mechanism that probably makes it so addictive.
@@bl00by_ Searching isn't the problem, it's the absolute requirement to do so among a deck and extra deck and needing to know the ins and outs of how to activate effects among essays of cards in a pretense of an interactive card game. Magic has search effects ranging from getting lands to your hand and battlefield to fetching a specific card of your choice. These types of cards can be included or left out of decks depending on the power level. Playing Yu-Gi-Oh relies on searching over and over again. Another difference is that once you grasp the basics and key terms, you can basically pick up a deck blind and play (not necessarily optimally) without having to decipher and mentally catalog every card in the decks. Shoot, one of Magic's more successful products in recent year was a booster box set up to literally be played by grabbing two packs, shuffling them and playing them against an opponent with two other random packs. An encyclopedic manga to introduce new players how to play at dial-up speed with a partial introduction to Yu-Gi-Oh's mechanics straight up isn't a good look.
If I was in charge of this, I would have made 3 2-player starter sets: Fusion Vs Ritual Synchro Vs Xyz Pendulum Vs Link Effectively, sub optimally constructed archtypes featuring staples: Set 1 would be Polymerization Heroes Vs BLS (anime fans) Set 2 would be Blackwing Vs Tellarknights (to be fair to Cimo, these are really good picks that are easy to learn) Set 3 would be Towerless Qli vs World Chalice with no out of archtype staples
the problem in my mind is that syncro/xyz is the only one that really feels balanced. Old fusions are unsustainable and new fusions are a bit too complicated. Old rituals are effectively DOA and new are practically an entirely seperate system from the old. Pendulum is an entirely different game, and links, coming from someone still trying to learn them in DL, are equally game changing in a vastly different way. Syncro and XYZ are just tributing with extra steps (tuner for syncro, level matching for XYZ)
I really disagree Sprights. People cannot learn the game with a powercrept archetype. Spright is easier to learn than any of the archetypes you listed. “have a 2? Special a 2!” And Qlifort normal summon they are incredibly niche gimmick. Might as well teach the kids Vaylantz because at least then they’ll learn to use Electrumite and Beyond the pendulum which are the sine qua non of Pendulum decks.
When links came out, I saw your video and you explained things perfectly for a new player to understand. Obviously, there are some niche rules that you only learn by playing the game. HOWEVER, Konami should do a similiar thing in creating videos for basic and advanced rules.
Solo mode has some stuff, but could come up with even more I think with Master duel. Konami could do a redemption arc in doing something like your statement.
@@MrGshinobiYup. That's how I learned links when they first came out. Saw Konami's official tutorial. Then I practice link summoning on the ygo simulator against bots and irl solo play to get used to it, then versus real players online and at locals.
I feel like they should have included a Level 8 and 9 synchro too, to allow players to experiment a little and not have the "oh shit i'm off by one level" feeling
I mean given yugioh they probably should have included a baronne de fluer A generic card with 2 effects anyone actually uses unless you really need a boss out of the graveyard that basically every deck runs Maybe for a follow up set maybe call it intermediate
You should do a series with some other yugitubers where you all make a starter deck themed around a specific part of the game and find some non yugioh people to go head to head with your decks.
tgs anime kinda already did that in a series introducing and teaching his friend into the series. It isnt quite the same thing, but forcing complete noobs to go at each other with different mechanics might be a bit much, especially as power creep makes each new mechanic noticeably better than the prime of the former, only fixed by later releases that the nostalgia craving older mechanic players will lack attachment to. The short version: You are sending the noobs into the deep end to sink or swim if you want it to be a "fair" fight. The skill floor for links is much higher than the skill floor for fusions, just because of the need to keep up with power creep to introduce new mechanics. If not talking in the mechanical department, you then have to deal with agreeing on the era to send in their champions and finding enough distinct decks that dont overlap. If a simple "this is how i got my friend into the game" isnt quite what you were looking for, chilledchaos and zeroyalviking had that exact sort of "noob" duel, but in watching both perspectives, it was clear who would be the victor long before the match even started: one of the 2 was rusty, the other was too new to the game to really experiment beyond the first initial suggestion of his coach... I wont spoil which is which, but i know it didnt really scratch my itch once i saw the writing on the wall.
the quote first appared in the power glove episode not atari 5200. Also that quote is very out of place here. It's not like the 2 player starter set is unfunctional like those two.
Its insane how the new master duel addition of giving new and returning players a swordsoul deck is just so much better at doing the exact thing this is supposed to do. And for free too.
Yeah even as someone who likes just feeling a deck and discovering the combos on the spot that deck is really fun even as a basic structure deck I would have liked a couple more copies of the extra deck monster or maybe just sone more from the same architype but even with minimal changes you can generally get your field up Well apart from bricking (seriously I feel like they increase your odds if triple dark hole level 6 non special summonable monster and like forbidden chalice Still you can turn it around as long as you don’t babe stupid mistakes like sack an 1800 attack monster to special a 1200 attack monster because you forgot that means didn’t activate its ability to summon a token so you couldn’t build your boss monster meaning they live with 300 LP and turn it around again but that’s not going to happen Ha… ha…
From a PSCT perspective Eldlich is fantastic. He's teaching players ";" ":" "Targeting" "Then" "and if you do" "hard once per turns". Cost, Activation condition the activated effect when your opponent can respond effect resolution. (Pure guess crow is to stop lich revive teaching hand traps + loosing card advantage). Depending how the included guide explains it, thats all very important game knowledge as the cardboard doesnt glow yellow unfortunately.
Honestly if I was to design this I'd make the comic about an older joey and yugi getting back into the game. The first half would be them going over the basics of the game and 2nd would be them learning newer ones. If I made this a single player starter I'd use 2 different archetype decks each with 2 special summon mechanics . You would not shuffle the deck and fight against a video of pegasus who cheats to know your cards and talk you through the game
I think maybe having the decks in the box packaged as 2 40 card decks with "basic/universal" cards and then 2(or maybe even more?) 20 card "advanced/specializations" with all the crazy interconnected synergies needed to play their particular special summoning types you can add to those 40 card minimum decks to turn them into 60 card maximum ones. As much as I like the concept of the pre-stacked decks that play out a scripted duel as a teaching tool, I feel like a simple rule book with a "basic" and "advanced" section, as well as QR codes/instructions to go to a website/TH-cam video for examples of play would sadly work out better.
And thats most of the problem with card text. The only reason some of the text on cards is “too long” is because they spend two lines saying an effect is once per turn
I agree with what you said about keeping it archetype based. I feel like the decks similar to what was in the Legendary Dragon and Legendary Hero sets would've been better for starting players. Most everything in those was pretty simple and straightforward, and they gave a good feel for their archetypes but left plenty of room to grow.
Somehow the product specifically designed to help the new player experience managed to fall short of both SPeed Duel box sets, which are a less comprehensive entry point, but allow one to explore the basics and easily get a lot more people involved and Master Duel, which is a free mobile app and provides some of the most intuitive and visual tutorials this game has. At least the concept has some promise in a vacuum, but the execution seems very poor
I think the amount of normal monsters makes sense to teach new players about basic atk/def stats, battling, and tribute summoning first. Starting right with effect monsters could be a bit overwhelming when you don't have any clue yet how to read cards.
But dont effect monsters also teach that anyway? Something like a Monarch is a far better way to teach someone tribute summoning than a silly 6 star vanilla. And you will learn standard atk and def pretty easily regardless of whether its a normal or effect monster. Yes its a new player product but you HAVE to modernize the approach because otherwise they'll have a Rarran experience where the tutorial does NOT prepare you for the actual game. Yugioh at is base isn't that complicated. Problem comes when completely new players fresh out of tutorial are absolutely blindsided by the pace of the game. You can't expect people to jump into 2024 or heck even 2014 yugioh by merely teaching them 2002 yugioh.
Really shocking that Cimo does not seem to have actually looked at how the scripted duel plays out. The reason there are so many normal monsters is so both players can start with a hand of just normal monsters, learn the basics of combat, and then the game gets progressively more complicated. Looking at card complexity in a vacuum is totally pointless, as is complaining that X card will not be live except in rare situations: That situation is guaranteed to arise!
I like teaching people in segments, where you have normal monsters, some basic effect monsters, some of each spell and trap type. 2 identical decks with basic cards like this are a good place to start, especially if each deck has 1 of each card name. Then introducing people to fusions, XYZ, synchro, link, and pendulums with a basic strategy for each. If the starter product had 1 deck of each extra type would be good too. Each player could then try each of these decks vs each other for a lot of games. Probably a total of 7-8 decks would make a nice product.
What would you price a set with 7-8 decks in it? too cheap with too many staples its Yugioh players will just buy them all out. too expensive and new players wont want to invest to get into the hobby.
@@benjaminsmith8377 I’m not entirely sure. It would probably need to be around $50-$80 for newer players to justify buying, given structure deck prices. If everything were common rarity it could help justify a lower price point. Simpler decks like satellarknights for the XYZ deck, salamangreat for link, or swordsoul for synchro are already pretty cheap, unless you go for secret or ultra rare versions. The $5-10 versions would probably lose some value by doing this. I would think printing everything in common would help. Keeping the decks to simple archetypes that were meta relevant in the last, but no longer top tier would also prevent everyone wanting to buy them. This idea would want to investigate the market to ensure there are no really expensive cards being reprinted for too much cost savings, to help prevent non-new players buying it. A draft idea is that Konami could work with LGSs to host new-player events where selling these decks could be limited for attending. $10 per deck to play against other new players could be reasonable. If they like it, they can buy another deck next week and play more. I used to go to Toys-R-Us yugioh events on Saturdays when I was a kid and they were fun and casual. They’d offer promos for playing a certain number of games and other achievements in a stamp book. There were achievements for teaching people things also, which helped the community grow. This idea can incorporate registering to help prevent people from buying more than 1 copy of each deck. I also liked someone else’s idea of offering each deck standalone or in a set of 2 to vs each other. Building on that idea, you could have levels of difficulty where the next level could offer more complicated decks like branded despia, exosister, dragon link, Mathmech, etc, and focus more on hand traps. I wouldn’t want these to provide the most top tier decks, but to build on fundamentals with the difficulty 1 decks, then get players used to the game being combo based with the difficulty 2 decks. Konami would have to ensure the deck power levels were even for each difficulty level also. Maybe swordsoul would fall into difficulty 2 since I think it’s pretty good, even though it’s on the simpler side. These are all just draft ideas that can probably be refined with some market research and player opinions.
I feel like a 4-deck box would be good. Two starter decks like these that teach the basic mechanics and two structure decks that teach what real Yugioh is like.
Like the first 2 is the cute anime stuff and basic mechanics, and the other 2 are like… idk what’s a good beginner archetype… but you get the point, then they could add Zeus to it… idk why cause that’s like a huge blowout it makes the game feel unfair, but they could also add at least 1 hand trap just to teach how handy they are (heh puns)
Or maybe still have only 2 "decks", but have them packaged in 4 parts: 2 40 card "basic/learning" decks full of relitively universal cards, and then 2 20 card "advanced" expansions that add in the specialized summoning systems and all their support(and maybe some other more "complex" cards too) Heck, maybe even have such a specialization "expansion" for each type of special summoning system. Though that's asking for a lot of cards up front... and Konami needs a way to make us buy structure decks and booster packs, so there's no way they'd give them out like that.
Personally I learned to play through the Tag Force series of games (it taught me that extra deck monsters get sent to the extra deck instead of returning to the hand with cards like evac device real early) And I feel that 5 and 6's and special's decks were friendly. But for new players? Look at Special's 3 starter decks they all have multiple 2 and 3 ofs and clear strats (while keeping the spells and traps simple) in the main deck and I want to stress the 2 and 3 ofs; as a new player that's less cards I have to memorize! That makes internalizing their effects and how they work easier, it makes thinking of how some of them go together easier and its how I tackle new card games
the random comp reprints show that yugioh needs to support its casual play better. pokemon low play level products dont have the issue of random competive cards and focus on its intended level. yugioh is so comp focused they have to constantly service the competive.
When my wife wanted to learn the game, I taught her in eras. Start with the original game and work your way up through the different summoning methods once they totally grasp what came before.
As someone who bought this recently, i was also disappointed there was no paper play mat. The scripted duel was...entertaining at best. I would have taught this a different way, and i don’t think the physical product is the way to go, albeit the idea is kinda neat to be more "hands on". Alternatively enough going against what i said in terms of a physical product, i remember the duel masters DVD guide back in the day was very helpful for me and my friends. I don't think Konami should do another one 🤔 but perhaps Dan Green & Wayne Grayson (Yugi & Joey VA's), explaining the rules made the material more interesting to learn at a younger age when it released.
I agree, that fact that this is just a giant mash up of random stuff seems very not Yugioh. It didn't even have to be an archetype, as an example the xyz deck could have been a Fish/Shark deck.
Honestly there is probably no way physical content can get anyone up to speed with modern YuGiOh. Honestly, YuGiOh: Legacy of the Duelist - Link Evolution is probably the best way to learn. Start off with duels right out Duelist Monsters as the pace slowly speeds up to the pace of 2019. Then the jump from here to Master Duel or the TCG is probably not as jarring a leap
Speaking as someone that actually played through the Starter Set, script and all, overall, the best thing(s) I can say is that this should’ve been part 1 of a mini-series of similar sets, with one or two pleasant surprises in showcasing mechanics like Battle Replay, for instance. I will say that this video did slightly lower my opinion on the set, partially due to things you brought up that I hadn’t even considered, like the lack of playmats. I-wha-what the-WHAT?! That is one hell of an oversight to make. In the set’s defense, though, some of the card choices make a little more sense if you actually go through the scripted duel. For example, one of the reasons for an abundance of Normal monsters is that the script tries to teach players that there’s technically six different ways a battle between two monsters will play out, and I imagine they felt like having them be effect monsters would distract from that. That’s just speculation on my part, though, and that kind of logic isn’t 100% consistent with the rest of the script IIRC. To go in another direction, though, maybe trying to teach the game in one duel *is* the problem. Maybe we need multiple sets to fully teach what Yugioh entails. Maybe have a (redesigned) starter set that teaches the basics, then an intermediate set that teaches more nuances in the game, and then an advanced set that either teaches even more complexity and/or introduces cards that break the rules. It would certainly make for an interesting design challenge, regardless of whether you’re sticking to one set or trying to spread it out across multiple.
Teaching a card game through different releases teaches people 2 things: 1) your game is needlessly complex 2) they're basically paying a subscription to get the privilege of learning your badly designed game.
I found the easiest way for me to relearn the game was though the master duel solo mode. Each mode had a focus on a playstyle and introduced things at a slow enough pace that i felt like it was doing a pretty ok job at letting me know things i didnt know
Solo mode also goes through a massive amount of archetypes and you gain a shitload of cards through it. I think playing it and Legacy Of The Duelist back to back works, but I also suggest an all cards unlocked save for legacy so you can actually play around with building decent decks. Master Duel's biggest problem IMO is how easy it is to waste gems.
They should've followed Pokémon and Magic with a rotation of legal sets being allowed. It would've made things more accessible for new players, and keep the craziness of the meta in line.
There were 2 good options they could have done for the decks. Generic Xyz and synchro(goblindberg type stuff vs jester confit type stuff) Or Onomatopoeia vs junk/stardust They did neither and gave you ojamas
*(TL,DR at the bottom)* - the biggest issue with this product is that it doesnt teach you deck building principles at all, which is arguably the most important thing in both casual and competitive play. i want to stress that the difficulty of the environment isnt important for this. noone will play 'lord of d.' and 'flute of summoning dragon' in blue-eyes when you can play 'galactic spiral dragon' instead. the importance of deck building is critical to both having fun in yugioh and winning. - the cards stink, there are better, more modern (and simpler) cards that do the same thing that these cards do. like including piper for example, that doesnt help you in any way to understand flip mechanics, whereas shaddolls, a set of cards that both activate when sent by card effect, trigger when flipped and can be used as fusion materials (even when face down) would be better inclusions that apprentice piper. the point here is: if you're teaching new players about how the game is played, you wanna teach them about when cards trigger and why, and how those two things synergise. it teaches you timing as well. piper doesnt - the 'rule book' doesnt actually teach you how and why something happens, it just tells you that it happens, no explanations, no reasons, just tells you to do the thing and you do it. like if it dumps an extra deck monster, then never revives it, the 'rule book' doesnt tell you that you can't revive it because it wasnt properly summoned, instead, it just never does that interaction and never clarifies. i could go on for ages about this bad product, but the solution is simple: a much easier fix would be to make the official rules accessible to all players by printing a rulings handbook for OTS stores to sell. and maybe much like the manga books, include a sealed promo or 2 with the handbook.
Props to cimo for being one of the few big creators that went and actually pointed out the flaws in this "starter set" product. Honestly it's kind of embarrasing for creators like MBT or Farfa to give so much praise to a flawed product like this when it fails on what it aims to do, for example some of it's biggest mistakes being no playmat, no tokens, a super messy and wordy rulebook "comic" that doesn't even explain everything there is to know about the game, really weird and janky starter decks, etc. Konami should do much better than this and we should let them know.
I didn't get why Konami made this kind of product. I played Yu-Gi-Oh from the early days and back then the structure decks have the rule book included. When I purchased my Illusion of the Dark Magician and Rise of the Blue-eyes, they didn't have the rule book. My son was able to grasp the game easily when we first played the structure decks as is. I have looked up online the additional rules and after a match my son was hooked and now after giving two more SD to build his own deck, he was able to play it with ease (he has yet to play with Pendulum and Link monsters). I guess Konami still needs to refine its methods in teaching the game and for the veterans of the game they should also try playing with a new player using a deck showcasing the basic mechanics.
33:52 The only way to fix that issue is for the power level and available card types to be reset to where Edison format is and have it be made Yugioh's flagship format for tournament play. I'm not saying all Yugioh should be Edison, I'm saying create new sets with new cards and only Fusion and Synchros in the Extra deck at the complexity level of Yugioh in the time of Edison. Then include some additional rules to fix some of the inherent issues of Yugioh which led to insane power levels. As an example, in Yugioh it's impossible to have monsters which are part of long-term effect engines because you need to destroy your opponent's monsters to advance your game. This means it's impossible to stick a tiny monster that can have a repeatable advantage generating effect in Yugioh and this resulted in omni-negate boss monsters since having omni-negates was the only way to keep your stuff around for several turns. The solution is to change the rules so that you can attack directly if your opponent has ATK position monsters and only DEF position monsters completely stop someone from attacking directly. It gives defense position a better function in the game. Another example is building strategies around the attributes instead of archetypes. Include Speed Duel type skill cards with different combinations of attributes on them and the players are locked into the attributes of the skill they choose. It's the colour system but not tied to the resource system since Yugioh doesn't have one. Another version of this is to create dedicated boss monster sub-type which have multiple attributes and you choose one to be your deck master, locking the attributes to it's own. People love Yugioh and formats like Goat and Edison exist because people want the experience of a simpler game which Yugioh was.
I have been teaching the game to a younger player recently - started with speed duels and then moved on to Goat Format (which is a great teaching tool because of the emphasis on resource management and because there are so many videos on TH-cam where people demonstrate the strategies. Very interesting to hear your perspective on this product as an introduction to the game. It seems like a huge missed opportunity for Konami: limited formats (like your progression series) have never been more popular and there are a ton of creators hopping into the limited format space. It seems like it would have been possible to create an introduction to the game that imitated some of the popular features of limited formats - something like a DM era structure deck with five packs of sets from the era. You get some of the fun of pack opening and deck building but with a lot of guidance. Then, if the new player is enjoying the experience, there would be a 5Ds and then a GX era product a few months later for them to level up and learn the game. It's not an ideal solution but it ypasses the problem of teaching twenty year's worth of mechanics in one afternoon and it incorporates the appeal of opening packs to build up your deck.
Zeus seems like a great include honestly AS A BOSS MONSTER SPECIFICALLY. You say how it’s better for this starter set to focus mostly on simple, intuitive cards, but like… Yugioh doesn’t have a lot of those nowadays. Having a big epic robot man with a board wipe, a relatively simple summoning condition and a boatload of attack makes for a card that would stick out in a lot of kids minds. And they can take that Zeus with them into future, more advanced decks, since it’s still a very good card even in the modern game. Yeah, it has a lot of text, but that’s something about modern Yugioh that does need teaching. Figuring out which effects are relevant and which aren’t. It’s not like Zeus has a bunch of ongoing effects, they’re pretty one and done.
Yeah, Zeus is like the best card for this. What's the point of a Yugioh new player product that doesn't even have anything to do with modern Yugioh. Zeus is as good of an introduction as it gets
Ngl the first time i played Masterduel and someone summoned a Zeus on me i was confused AF cause i'd never seen it before. I was like he didn't sacrifice 2 level 12 monsters wtf.
Ok, but then wtf is the synchro equivalent to Zeus? Trishula? Star Eater? Some other synchro I'm not thinking of right now? You can't have one deck's boss be generic while the other one is a boss centered on an archetype (one that they didn't even bother to flesh out the entire starter deck with, btw). Both sides need to have that giant "modern era" boss that's generic and is the deck's overall "win-con"
@@vgmaster02 No, nothing says that it has to be "generic", it just has to be reflective of modern Yugioh. There is no Synchro equivalent because as a mechanic anything generic in terms of Synchro just turns broken (see Baronne), so you just go to the next best thing and design a deck that can make Chaos Angel or something. Chaos Angel even has the benefit of beating Zeus in battle while still lose to Zeus effect so it adds a nice bit of mirroring
Ya know its funny i was just playing the Starter Set with my Fiancee and i REALLY was feeling the lack of a playmat. Even just a cheap paper one would've worked wonders i feel
Y'know, after hearing your opinions of this, it seems they were actually onto something when they got the idea for a school teaching how to play a card game. It's starting to seem like we need one at this point. 😆
Glad you are here to critique this set because so many people were defending this saying it was good. Its bad for literally everyone. Its bad for new players. Its bad for old players. This product is for almost no one. Ive seen this product played in person and it goes off the rails without guidance from someone that knows what they are doing so fast. On top of that the question gets asked "What do we do when we have played 1 time" You just end up with a pile of worthless cards likely in the hands of 2 players that still have no clue in the world as to how to play the game still.
As a newish player who migrated from magic and hearthstone the one thing I can take with me from those two games that would help a new player a lot would be something like a standard format. There's way too many available cards for a new player to digest.
I think the idea of specific archetypes would be great. It keeps things a lot simpler. Fusion could do something like maybe Fluffal, Ritual could be maybe Nekroz? Solid archetypes for all options. As someone relearning the game i agree this product looks bad
Great discussion. Overall I like the product but I'm a guy that buys all the starters and structures when they come out no matter what just because I enjoy playing them with friends. Limited formats like that are my absolute favorite to play. Structure vs structure right out of the box. That's fun to me.
@@UTgohanHow so? Asides from the artificial price increases via shortprints and upping of rarity, the game in itself is fine. Yugioh has now become an even more interactive puzzle game. You problem solve and try to break certain boards while implementing the varying strategies dependent on what kind of deck you are playing. The mind games and bluffs that ensues is what I love about modern Yugioh. In terms of interaction heading into 2024, I’d argue Yugioh is in a very good space especially when you consider how heavy a hand trap format we are entering into.
The game isnt even yugioh lol the way it’s played it should be it’s own format honestly. Everydeck played “hand traps” Everydeck vomits a ton of monsters in one turn and most games don’t last more then 2 turns
I feel like one of the best ways to get a new player into the game would be for konami to create better incentives (such as cash prizing) to attract people who are willing to invest the time to conqure to skill curve. Yugioh will never be the simple game it started as, and so i dont think konami can ever release a simple product that succeeds in introducing people to the very complex modern game.
several archetypes just straight up function exist with a thrice per turn cap to special summoning. Like VW will *maybe* be able to make shenshen and have Nyannyan out and that’s it. It’s entirely built around bringing out all 5 main deck VW monsters over the course of the turn and without that it has absolutely nothing to do.
@ 34:35 - "there isn't necessarily a right or a wrong way to learn" As someone with non-zero experience being a professor / instructor / classroom facilitator at the post-secondary level (for mostly first-year undergraduate students), yes, there is more than one effective way to learn - but there are also many, many, many 'wrong' ways to try and teach people. I think this 'Starter Set' - and the discourse that it's generated in the community - might be revealing something very interesting about the mindset of many Yugioh players. This mindset might be majorly mistaken or at least majorly misguided. I'd make a video about this if I weren't both injured and under some real-life deadlines at the moment. But basically, the major issue that I'm seeing is that players are effectively looking for what amounts to 'Pedagogy Circular' - the cards that can just do everything all at once as efficiently* as possible. To use some gamer jargon that I don't see very often in Yugioh contexts: players have been trained to highly value "role compression" - when you have 1 thing that does more than 1 thing, this is efficiency and versatility from a strategic point of view. In competitive Yugioh, we like cards with role compression because cards are resources, and the more roles those resources can fulfill, the more valuable they are (from a strategic point of view). Yes, a card like [Visas Starfrost] /would/ be very efficient at quickly exposing players to many parts of the game all at once. . . but that's not a good thing from a pedagogical point of view. When it comes to teaching and learning, this is often the exact opposite of what you would want. Generally, you would want /de-compression/ - pulling things apart, pacing it out, and extending the look at each individual part so you can focus on each thing. Once you learn the parts, you slowly begin cobbling them together and then using what you've built as a base or frame to better learn the next thing. This is called "scaffolding." Building a deck that is most efficient at quickly showing off all the different facets of Yugioh's game mechanics AND the trends of its meta-game competitive aspects . . . might be one of least effective things to shoot for in teaching new players meaningful things.
One thing that would remove complexity, but is never going to happen because that is how Konami operates these Starter/Structure products: Just put in multiples of some cards. If you put Warrior returns alive in here, give them 2 or 3 of that and then 2 or 3 Sparkman Heroes/any Warrior that is not too complex and you just shaved off some more complicated cards.
I dont think 25 years is the problem. Magic is much older than yugioh and I dont think Im having a problem playing the game. I just wish they dont write paragraphs on these new cards. They are also written in the way that it is too annoying to read them
I do agree with a lot of what is being said, but I'm gonna vouch for Eldlich's inclusion. Yeah, it has a lot of text on it, but i think it can teach a lot of important lessons about modern yugioh. First off, it teaches the difference between destroying and sending to the gy. Like, have the opponent's deck include a battle floater and have the Eldlich player send it, preventing its effect from triggering, something along those lines. Second, you can pair it with cards like galaxy cyclone or breakthrough skill to show the importance of gy setup. Third, and probably most important in my eyes, it can teach the importance of utility monsters. The other deck has d.d. crow, so you could have a turn or two to show how much of a recursive threat Eldlich is, then you can banish it with d.d. crow. The decks are far from a perfect teaching tool for new players, but there are some neat synergies here.
this requires having a literal teacher. The average new player hopping into this game has to go out of their way to find this information, and no good game is designed in such a way
@@IIIIAmSHODAN the point of the 2 player starter set is to teach you how to play the game through a scripted duel. They could just explain the points I made in the script as you're playing
For a boss monster that I found when I first opened was Tierra, Source of Destruction. I read it for the first time (too much text for a brand new player) but the artwork is really cool, and the effect is cool when it resolves. 1. specials at any point once you have 10 other cards in play (not including gy unfortunately) 2. can't be negated (would make the person not playing it feel bad so idk) 3 Wipes everything back to deck, so it is a full reset of the game, except for Tierra itself. But for younger me, it was so cool that I wanted to build a deck around summoning the card.
23:38 gotta say that Star Changer is an overlooked card, it can mess up the synchros of your opponents, i have seen some videos about those decks and every time, the owner of this card just keep it in hand and the opponents goes off. i like it because is not super powerful but its modularity leads to the strategic element of interaction in yugioh.
Ok but at that point why not just play Stygian Dirge? It's better in every way possible because it affects every monster your opponent controls, not just one
@@Pyrrha_Nikos because that's a floodgate and not a quick play interaction that can benefit you as well as disrupting the opponent. is like the difference between forbidden chalice and skill drain, one is fun and the other is not
I'd personally have a deck of each summoning mechanic that could be a somewhat rogue archtype that can really hammer home how each summoning mechanic works. I'd go Fluffle for fusion: Don't use the pendulum monsters in this or any archtype i mention and focus on using fusion summoning and get mileage out of poly. I'd go with Mayakashi with Synchro: While a more complicated archtype, learning Mayakashi would really teach a player how to synchro and how to climb. I think once you learn the loop, it really isn't that hard and then you get down a really strong fundamental on how climbing works. I'd be open to other ideas than this, but it was the first thing i thought of that really pulled the strength of synchro and how to climb. Gagaga or Photon toolbox: This one is a bit more generic, though i think teaching players that generic support can be strong and just how versatile the xyz rank 4 toolbox is can really teach them that they can use the extra deck as a one stop shop to solve any situation they're in. it'd be the lowest ceiling of any of the decks, but it would never really be stuck and out of luck if it can land 2 rank 4s on board. Igknight would be how i'd teach Pendulums; Let's be clear, Pendulums are the outlier of the summoning mechanics, so to teach them i'd really want to focus on the pendulum mechanics and not the monsters around it. So a fully normal monster deck with all the same pendulum effect could really help players understand the mechanic without being overwhelmed. This deck would have to have the strongest trap and spell support to stay in line with the other decks, but i think it could be done to balance the decks out while teaching the player how pendulums work on paper. For links, this one was the hardest for me to land on, but Gouki felt like the right level of learning how to link with a good focus on it while not being distracted by other mechanics. This one i'd be willing to hear other ideas the most however finally, if you were to look into also including main deck mechanics like tribute or ritual decks: For rituals i'd go with impcantation with a splash of Demise, this would be a nice strong board wipe option while giving the players a nice splashable engine for other ritual archetypes if they wanted to use it. and then for tribute, it's really either monarch or true draco, so take your pick. I'd argue that true draco is stronger but monarchs are more iconic. But these could just be ignored all together really.
I feel the scripted duel demonstration is being somewhat heavily overlooked here, but this feels more like a demo product you do to introduce one friend while the other already knows the game, I cant imagine 2 brand new players buying this and udnerstanding what is happening.
For the normal monsters I think that the best option would actually be one of the 2K beaters. This would make a better turn 1 play because one player would look at the hand and see, "None of my level 4 or lower monsters has more than 2000 ATK" which can be an aside that teaches "usually level 4 or lower monsters don't have more than 2000 ATK" and in the context of a scripted duel it immediately provides a problem that one player needs to solve. Cardcar D referencing main phase 1 is one thing but I think my own gripe with it being included is that it's a card I think is too risky for a new player. "I have to give up my entire turn just to draw 2?" It sets expectations but I can't help but feel like there are far better choices to introduce whatever it was trying to introduce. D.D. Crow is a fine addition but the way the scripted duel uses it is insane. "Your opponent sent Skill Successor and Golden Lord to the GY this turn. Use D.D. Crow on... Skill Successor." Then when the decks are shuffled the Xyz player is sitting with a freaking GOLDEN LORD in GY and the set acts like it's not a foregone conclusion. On top of the Xyz player getting Zeus, them also having Golden Lord makes me suspicious that the person who took the Synchro deck will generally have a worse time just from the product lineup. Sergeants is definitely an odd pick but I think Catastor wouldn't be fun to include, because it would be too annoying to play against. There aren't a ton of fully generic Level 5 Synchros with simple and fun effects unfortunately but something like Hi-Speedroid Chanbara is probably generic "enough." If the deck gets more Warriors (I think that Sergeants is part of why they needed so many Fiends in the deck) then X-Saber Wayne or Scarred Warrior would probably be a fine level 5 Synchro. My issue with Rhynosaber is that it's a really passive card. Like it can become a big boy but its primary effect is to just replace itself with different cards. That's not really fun for a player, to say, "Yay, I got out my Synchro monster... Now I'm going to immediately tribute it." A generic level 7 like Kuibelt the Blade Dragon that has a floating effect rather than a "send me to the GY" effect would be better. Or Samurai Destroyer - I know that the idea of Night Beam feeling bad to play against is a reason to cut it but a "non-reactable" effect on a boss monster like Samurai Destroyer would be fine to make it feel like an actual impactful monster, and it being on a monster sitting on the field allows the opponent to strategize around it - plus the decks don't have too many battle traps so Samurai Destroyer would not often feel that bad to play against. I'd probably opt for Samurai Destroyer. While I think leaning full into archetypes might be a bit too much and you could easily to "archetype-esque" and just have a deck with a general focus without specifically being an archetype, like "Warrior Synchro vs. Sharks" or "Fiend Synchro vs Machine Xyz."
The way i would do it, is have multiple starter decks. First would be like a 20 card deck with just GOAT format cards to teach the basics ( summoning, where trap and spells go, learn the different phases, how to battle) Then i would have a 30 card deck with two easy archetypes for synchro and xyz. Have the player choose 10 of the generic cards from the 20 card deck to complete the deck to 40 cards. This teaches them how they can use cards to make their deck better. The third deck would be the same idea but with link and fusion mechanics.
I just realized another really good card for a starter product: Bubonic Vermin. It teaches the Flip mechanic, Special Summoning, a sort of tutoring/floating, and shows that you can have multiples of the same card in your Deck, for better (I can get to the card more easily) or worse (Dangit, I drew multiple Vermin in my opening hand).
Im going to be honest; when my friend wanted to get back into the game, i told him the best way to learn was to pick up the game Legacy of the Duelist: Link Evolution and from there i guided him with strategies and deck building until he felt comfortable building a real life deck which i also helped with by giving him extra copies i had or helping with trades for cards he needed. He's still learning rulings and some new mechanics but hes doing well enough on his own that hes feel comfortable playing the game at his own pace at locals despite losing frequently to meta decks. Hes learning his decks weaknesses and strengths and started to seek cards on his own to strengthen his deck and be prepared for particular strategies that give him a hard time. I hate directing new players toward a video game, but honestly, Legacy of the Duelist is the way to go. It covers the new mechanics and gives them story as well as story based decks to help them learn the mechanics at their own pace and rewards losing with DP that can be used to purchase packs in game without the involvement of real currency.
I'm still amazed after all this time they haven't realized they could just produce a tutorial app, they have master duel they can take that and turn it into a interactive even scripted tutorial that could be made more engaging with voice acting and animations. With the 25th anniversary having a focus on archetypes over anime why not have us learning Fusion with Albaz and characters from that lore even HERO cards give the archetypes a voice for kids to get attached to while teaching them. you can even tie it into new products like buy a new structure or starter use the QR code with the app and get a tutorial or scripted duel that teaches the lines.
I really like the archtype idea at the end. I think a simple pure Metalfoes deck with some generic tuners and a generic Extra Deck of simple text monsters is good for new players because Metalfoes is actually good, it can play very simple, and introduce new players to Links, Fusion, Xyz, Synchro, Pendulum, even Tribute Summoning, either individually and then incorporate all of them slowly. The new player learns Pendulum first to get the most complicated summoning mechanic out of the way. Fortunately, Metalfoes are mostly normal and all have the same Pendulum text which are very short making it easy to remember. At the same time they learn Fusion to use the Metalfoes fusion cards. Only Pendulum and Fusion will be taught first in part 1 of the tutorial. Until they get used to it they cannot advance, but once they do they proceed to Xyz and slowly get used to it and incorporate Xyz in the practice duels alongside Fusion and Pendulum Summoning. It's easier to see the same levels then adding up levels. That's why I chose learning Xyz before Synchro. Then Synchro and repeat the process. Then lastly Links. The ultimate and final graduation test is to play the deck incorporating everything you learn, and Metalfoes can play Tributes, Synchro, Xyz, Pendulum, and Links. I believe the new player can do it with a mostly Pure Metalfoes deck.
I disagree. I don't think we should try teaching Pendulum first. After all, if all of their monsters are Pendulum at first, and then they get to learning with Non-pend monsters, it feels like a downgrade. I think it's best to teach a mechanic as an "add-on" to pre-existing knowledge, to minimize what they have to learn at first. Like, what's the relevance of learning how restricted Pend summoning from the ED is without seeing how UNrestricted it is with other mechanics?
I think a good beginner archetype for the Synchro deck would be Speedroid; Terrortop, Double Yo-Yo, and Red-Eyed Dice all have very simple, yet powerful effects. Probably wouldn't include the more complex cards like Cork Shooter tho.
I completely agree it should have been archetype specific. I played Yugioh back in the DM era when I was a kid, grew out of it, and didn’t pick it back up until Zexal. Decided I wanted to play irl again and picked up Bujin. Helmet, ik, but great for a new player. Super simple effects, taught combos on how to xyz summon, had searchers, hand traps, defensive and offensive options. Cards to activate in the graveyard. It really helped me learn the competitive scene again and how much the game had changed. And once you master how to play your deck it makes it so much easier to look at other cards and understand what they do. “Oh this works similar to Yamato” or “ok this is like bujincarnation” ect. There are so many simple Yugioh archetypes that this would be easy and cost effective for them to make. That being said, it can’t be “structure deck” focused. Where there is 1 copy of the decks best cards. It needs to be fully constructed decks with 3 ofs, 2 ofs, ect to show that running multiples of your power cards and engine is crucial for consistency. Great video as always Cimo
a couple solutions since this an ongoing issue for the game that needs to be addressed, but creating two "archetypes" meant specifically for teaching the game. that way they could touch base on everything in meaningful and intuitive and in two decks that can work independently. another option is a similar product with much better revisions but using the evolution method where you have the small packages that you open and are advised a list to make changes in the deck. " this pack will teach you about fusion and ritual summons" "this will teach you about traps and hand traps" etc. and they can ramp up the amount of text and reduce the amount of cards you add each evolution pack to add into your deck only worry about that option is cost since it will probably contain more card and want to charge for them.
I played this with my partner, (who has a masters degree in engineering) and at some point it just got exhausting. The phases of the game from draw to end, normal summoning, setting, attacking, life points, spell and trap cards were all somewhat fine. But as soon as another card turned up, that was like full of text, it felt depressing for her. It was too much information in too little time (we needed almost 2 hours for the scripted duel (I play this game for 15 years now, so i knew what happened, but she had a lot of questions). I even brought playmates so that it is easier to understand and that helped a lot actually. But Cards like Zeus and the Mannadium one are just far too complex and even some effect monsters took us more than 10 minutes in order for her to truly understand what she was doing (which was not fun). When we then ended on explaining chains, she was like "Yeah whatever" and honestly me too. You definitely need more products that explain the game step by step. Honestly extra deck monsters are too complex for someone not knowing the game at all and even effect monsters should not have more than 1 or two lines of text. I also severely underestimated how complex this stuff is when you never encountered this before. I believe optimal would be a starter deck for 10 bucks which contains around 20 Cards per deck mostly vanillas and simple spell and trap cards so that you can really learn the game (did this with my partner for the pokemon card game (which I dont know at all) and it was easy to understand, fun and there are follow up products for you to take the next step.
Just to add a bit of context from a new player perspective here... my brother played yugi oh back in the first year it came out... i kept gpoing for a bit but he did not, he also watched the anime... I just Bought a deck yesterday... more like 3 structure decks... i tried to get him to play with me and he said... if the deck is full of effect and weird mechaincs monsters I WILLNOT PLAY... either remove all those monsters or i am not gonna play at all... And honestly i agree with that sentiment from his perspective... i hate having to keep track of 10 effect monsters at the time in both the field and grave yard... it keeps my attention hyper focused on what is going on and makes me forget about having fun... So i think a starter deck with normal monsters on the not so low count is WAY better at least from a beginner's perspective... you can have more text fillled cards in les basic decks but probably not a good idea in STARTER decks...
Funny enough, A lightsworn deck is the most beginner friendly deck. It helped me coming back to the game back then, it helped my friends I introduced. It's got synchro and XYZ, flip, continuous effects, tribute summon, card synergy (archetypes), effects are very easy to understand. It has everything. Konami should've just use that deck.
I think the main problem Lightsworn runs into is the sheer number of cards that enter play when milling happens, especially since a Lightsworn deck is expected to have a good quantity of GY effects. That leads to a lot of things to keep track of at once, especially if multiple milling effects go off. Additionally, while the risk of decking out oneself is a compelling risk/reward aspect of Lightsworn, I don't know that it's very fun or suitable to a brand new player still figuring things out and probably still playing things very slow and inefficiently. Having deckout constantly looming with that in mind might not be great.
I have a similar experience, Battlin' Boxers helped me get back into the game after not playing since playground goat format. It's also why XYZ is my all time favorite summoning mechanic.
@@laggalot1012Sneak a localized tornado or exchange of the spirit in there to reset the deck. As players get better with the deck, they will likely cut them out.
@@dudono1744 I don't think anyone would like to play those cards. Tornado might as well forfeit the game on the spot, since it shuffles your hand into the deck along with the grave for no pay-off whatsoever, and Spirit probably won't even be live before you deck out, at the rate Lightsworn goes.
Magic, the gathering did this back in the 90s. It came with a CD for the PC that had the pre built deck a came with, and it showed you how to play. It was a done very well.
I will argue that 6 normal monsters each deck is fine cause it makes the opening hands less complicated. We all know the problem where you hand the opponent a structure deck and you have to wait for them to read all their cards. By having the first 6 cards not have any effects it makes the game much easier as you have safety in having cards that are basically numbers (Level, ATK, and DEF) and now only have to read 1 card a turn afterwards. Now 7-8 normals is definitely pushing it.
1:42 >AVGN >wise Godspeed to you, man of culture. Colorful way of getting his point across, but we've still learned plenty from Rolfe. _(No, you don't have to "pick one".)_
I agree 100%. The only real way to solve the learning curve is to introduce the learning difficultly level system that pokemon has. This would require an entire line of products to teach this curve. Id also have the tutuorials for the prodcucts be youtube video you can scan a qr code for. In addition just having konami hasve a dedicated video series going over everything the simple complex things. You can have them in different playlists and in a good learning order for players to follow. Its going to take a huge amount of investment on konamis side to set all of this up.
A few years back, when i was teaching yugioh to my friend, I also made a deck for myself and him and i made a scripted duel for us and I personally think that I did a better job than this product, altho i only explained the fusion monsters back then
Konami didn't give a duel mat or tokens which the synchro deck has tokens 😂 it's even worse that they don't explain the monster zones or spell and trap card zones, atleast they don't teach the new players about pendulum summon
I'm surprised that they didn't even put the paper zones/playmat
for a player completely new, playmats are the major thing to give a visual reminder of where stuff goes and how much field spaces are remaining.
Even if it was paper it still would have worked and then upgrade to the cloth ones when they get a feel for the zones
@@michaelgunnels9694 paper ones are decent for this kind of one. keeps it more compact for the short term use.
Konami's excuse for not including a paper playmat ranged from a) we figure by now everyone had one from previous releases we've done over the years, to b) we're trying to cut back on paper material for "the good of the planet" . when in reality it was cost cutting since they figured no one would use the paper mats and they are hand over fist supposedly lossing money in the West.
😂
Cimo: "They're going to spend more time reading text than playing the game"
Me playing Master Duel: "What the fuck does this card do?" Reads 2 paragraphs of text
Tbh, even MD does better job with new players. You got tutorials for simple mechanics, with latest update new players get Swordsoul deck which is amazing, as it has both simple combo lines to start off and can branch out in something more complex. Also during duel lots of annoying stuff is automated and it also highlights important/relevant text to help people focus.
MD helps you play the cards and know the card is being used the way it is meant to though.
Me playing Master Duel: "What the fuck does this card do?" Don't know, and I ain't reading all that (unless it's the quick effect)
What’s cool about MD is that when a card actives an effect it highlights which effect it is activating so you don’t even have to read the entire card.
I love how he assumes we all read the cards
The fact that it's a starter deck for two players and they didn't even include something as a playmat or a rulebook. Either it was a massive oversight, they had way too much faith in the comic, or they just wanted to actually appeal to players for the Zeus reprint
I suspect it is a bit of both.
I was gonna buy it but it's like $30 for 2 bad decks and a zues
Its all about the money Gainz 🤣 Slap 1 AAA Zues, big GAINZ
This isn't just lackluster for someone starting out, it's downright misleading. You can't use these decks to play anything resembling modern Yu-Gi-Oh!.
The Zeus is for the collectors
My favorite part of the book is the brief little bit of it acknowledging that pendulums exist, and also even admitting that making them was a bit of a mistake.
I'm pretty sure I've said this before, but I'd love to see some kind of modern Duel Academy themed video game designed to gradually introduce mechanics and deliberately expand your card pool that someone looking to learn Yugioh can go to for a paced introduction to all of the mechanics. It's just not something that any singular starter deck would be able to cover nearly as well.
Before I played Master Duel, I played a lot of Legacy of the Duelist. I'd say it prepared me pretty well for the complexity of Master Duel and the TCG, and because the story mode takes you in chronological order through dozens of duels from each of the first six anime series (Duel Monsters through VRAINS), it gradually introduces you to new archetypes and summoning mechanics in a way that I never found overwhelming. It differs from the game as it's played today mainly in that the card pool doesn't go past 2019 or so, hand traps and other generic staples don't appear that often, and your NPC opponents don't generally perform large combos or set up much disruption. Still, it definitely teaches you pretty much all of the mechanics.
This comment gives me big Earl's Academy from Pokemon Stadium 2 vibes. It's so easy to look at the modern internet and think a lot of this info is super easy to find, but making tutorials engaging and thorough does such a better job teaching than a Reddit dump.
It's a shame GX isn't in the nostalgia box at the moment, because this idea is legit goated and I'd pay for a fun gamified tutorial.
The Legacy of the Duelist campaign is definitely along the lines of what I'd want to see, but it's more concerned with recreating anime duels than actually teaching mechanics and strategies.
A game with a roguelike mode that uses primarily free agent cards would help as well, and could help make people just generally more fond of the generic "pack filler" cards. In Yugioh there's kinda a difference between getting the game mechanically and getting the game functionally. Because of how archetype-focused it is, learning the game through an archetype - even a beginner-friendly one - is oftentimes harder than starting with piles of generic cards. Like you give someone Mo Ye and they might understand why it's a good card but not get why Mo Ye is so much stronger than, for instance, Masked Chameleon.
One of the hardest parts of getting into the game is probably that in order to play a deck you need to understand like every card in it and how they interact. To go back to the "new player" discourse from for instance Rarran when Farfa taught him Salamangreat, all he did was explain how to do the core Salamangreat combo but after that Rarran said, "So how does this deck win?" all he knew was how to go through the motions of doing the combo. Yugioh is often compared to fighting games and to use the example it's the same as saying, "Do the combo trials to learn the game" even though most games that's the WORST way to "learn" it.
Teaching someone about how the game actually runs on mid to high level shouldn't be what a starter focused product goes for, it's a foregone conclusion.
@@Zetact_ man an Arena-like mode for Master Duel or Duel Links is something I didn't know I wanted until I read your comment. Yu-Gi-Oh has done drafting in the past but my impression is that it didn't really pan out.
Team APS's Paul basically said the same things. I agree wholeheartedly
Difference is he had test subjects to collect data on how potential new players would react
Isn’t that weird though should Konami have gif here’s a couple people without any experience to see how they would react
I think Visas Starfrost is fine to include. It has a lot of text, yes, but the effects are pretty simple, and it teaches you a lot of things about modern yugioh :
- Most of the time, monsters with high levels will have an effect to put them on the board
- Effects can have conditions to fullfill to be activated
- Effect can be activated in the hand
- It teaches what are monster Attributes and Types
- It has a battle effect, which reinforces the basics of combat and ATK/DEF interactions
It also synergizes with the intended Synchro monster they want you to treat as your boss monster (Prime Heart). The problem was not adding more of the mannadium monsters
@@ianr.navahuber2195 God forbid new players get decent cards
on the other hand, while you are right about all that, the point Cimo is trying to make is that if you have absolutely zero knowledge about the card game itself, something like this might not be something you want someone to remember starting from scratch...
now something like an "intermediate difficulty" set, would certainly be worth putting Visas into... Prime-Heart, or hell, ANY of the ED "Heart" Monsters kind of expect you to understand the archetype mechanics, being the boss... so it might fall a bit more "advanced"...
shit, try explaining Tearlaments and why it's so good (or Kashtira and why facing it sucks) to some random shmuck who knows nothing on how to play... it's like shoving a summer school session into the span of 5-10 minutes
common vsauce is so funny
Visas has a battle effect? TIL
So I actually design board games semi-professionally now. 'The teach' is the most important part and basically your job as a game designer is to make the game as easy to learn as possible while still providing the full game experience.
The problem with Yu-Gi-Oh is... A bit more intrinsic to the state of yugioh. We saw with Rarran that yuguoh simply doesnt play intuitively with its mechanics... Meaning theres a huge logical leap that has to be made between learning the mechanics and getting sold into yugioh.
I dont think this problem is solvable without a third party (fans introducing other people to the game). Which is a massive problem for the longevity of a game.
The easiest way to describe this is as follows: the moment a card asks a player to search their deck for a card, a new player is completely lost. They need to know what 40 other cards are in their deck, combo lines, etc. but every single deck in yugioh plays this way... So how do you provude a new player experience that is accurate to the game?
That’s a keen insight.
I’m a retournee, follow meta but don’t know old decks
So during the Legend Anthology Acceleration festival in Master Duel I’ve been forced to play T.G. And Heroes for the first time.
With T.G. When I activate Rocket Salamander and the menu opens up I immediately feel lost and confused because there is no obvious target (eg. Trickstar Lillybell, Snake Eyes Poplar, Ancient Warriors- Ingenious Zhuge Kong) so my comboing feels kind of pointless. I think the goal is to Special summon the lvl 12 which negates a summon, along with the 12 that banishes a monster, to refresh the negate, pitching the counter trap to the grave somewhere along the way to set it by its effect.
(In the loaner deck at least. People playing their own T.G. Deck just summon calamity.)
Vs. Heroes. Stratos is the clear “stratos”. Vision hero Faris is clearly the best target. Which then places Vision hero increase to summon Vyon to pitch shadow mist and I figured this out in about 2 battles. (If the single copy of vision hero increase is in your opening hand that’s a scoop 😝)
While I dislike a game plan that is TOO linear or All gas/autopilot (Kashtira and Branded/Mathmech respectively)
I find Archetypes like T.G., Mannadium, Superheavy Samurai that require advanced study to develop any competency with due to xeno locks and unintuitive interactions exhausting.
Perfect balance is achieved by decks which have enough resources to compete but limited enough to force you to make meaningful decisions.
Examples. Lyrilusc, Vaylantz, Generaider, Tearlaments, Dinos.
The most fun deck IMO is Icejade. But I don’t think its well designed because until you put 1 + 1 + 1 together and figure out how to Curse Lock/Kosmo lock the deck does nothing.
But most of the fun of the deck is that opponents will not read Kosmochlor either. So it’s opaqueness is its strength.
The deck does Not have enough gas. And so you have to pretty much rely on extremely lucky draws in which case you can clobber tier 1 decks. It’s that intermittent reward mechanism that probably makes it so addictive.
I mean MTG also got search cards and they get new players in, so it can't be that difficult.
@@bl00by_ the difference is that it is unavoidable in Yu-Gi-Oh. In most MTG formats you have the option to play a deck that doesn't run tutors.
@@bl00by_ Searching isn't the problem, it's the absolute requirement to do so among a deck and extra deck and needing to know the ins and outs of how to activate effects among essays of cards in a pretense of an interactive card game. Magic has search effects ranging from getting lands to your hand and battlefield to fetching a specific card of your choice. These types of cards can be included or left out of decks depending on the power level. Playing Yu-Gi-Oh relies on searching over and over again. Another difference is that once you grasp the basics and key terms, you can basically pick up a deck blind and play (not necessarily optimally) without having to decipher and mentally catalog every card in the decks. Shoot, one of Magic's more successful products in recent year was a booster box set up to literally be played by grabbing two packs, shuffling them and playing them against an opponent with two other random packs. An encyclopedic manga to introduce new players how to play at dial-up speed with a partial introduction to Yu-Gi-Oh's mechanics straight up isn't a good look.
3:15 Konami making the 5D chess play of actively filtering out people who won't read.
If I was in charge of this, I would have made 3 2-player starter sets:
Fusion Vs Ritual
Synchro Vs Xyz
Pendulum Vs Link
Effectively, sub optimally constructed archtypes featuring staples: Set 1 would be Polymerization Heroes Vs BLS (anime fans)
Set 2 would be Blackwing Vs Tellarknights (to be fair to Cimo, these are really good picks that are easy to learn)
Set 3 would be Towerless Qli vs World Chalice with no out of archtype staples
Why they didn’t do it in this format is crazy to me, especially since you chose very popular archetypes from each era.
the problem in my mind is that syncro/xyz is the only one that really feels balanced. Old fusions are unsustainable and new fusions are a bit too complicated. Old rituals are effectively DOA and new are practically an entirely seperate system from the old. Pendulum is an entirely different game, and links, coming from someone still trying to learn them in DL, are equally game changing in a vastly different way. Syncro and XYZ are just tributing with extra steps (tuner for syncro, level matching for XYZ)
I really disagree
Sprights.
People cannot learn the game with a powercrept archetype.
Spright is easier to learn than any of the archetypes you listed.
“have a 2? Special a 2!”
And Qlifort normal summon they are incredibly niche gimmick.
Might as well teach the kids Vaylantz because at least then they’ll learn to use Electrumite and Beyond the pendulum which are the sine qua non of Pendulum decks.
@@isidoreaerys8745 that’s fair. Spright isn’t that hard, but I can imagine it might overwhelm a player. You do make a good point though
Poly Heroes would be a GREAT way to introduce fusion summoning. Especially since I feel like the Omni Heroes were bred for this exact purpose.
When links came out, I saw your video and you explained things perfectly for a new player to understand. Obviously, there are some niche rules that you only learn by playing the game. HOWEVER, Konami should do a similiar thing in creating videos for basic and advanced rules.
Solo mode has some stuff, but could come up with even more I think with Master duel. Konami could do a redemption arc in doing something like your statement.
Those videos you're asking for already exist, they're in the official tcg youtube channel
@@MrGshinobiYup. That's how I learned links when they first came out. Saw Konami's official tutorial. Then I practice link summoning on the ygo simulator against bots and irl solo play to get used to it, then versus real players online and at locals.
To Konami's credit, they have made How-To-Play videos similar to the ones I created eons ago.
www.yugioh-card.com/en/forbeginners/
They should use qr codes with links to video tutorials. Maybe even put some people to teach live to play master duel.
We are of the same mind. This product just fell completely flat. Feels very half-baked.
I feel like they should have included a Level 8 and 9 synchro too, to allow players to experiment a little and not have the "oh shit i'm off by one level" feeling
I added Stardust Spark Dragon to it. Simple but powerful effect.
I mean given yugioh they probably should have included a baronne de fluer
A generic card with 2 effects anyone actually uses unless you really need a boss out of the graveyard that basically every deck runs
Maybe for a follow up set maybe call it intermediate
You should do a series with some other yugitubers where you all make a starter deck themed around a specific part of the game and find some non yugioh people to go head to head with your decks.
Great suggestion
tgs anime kinda already did that in a series introducing and teaching his friend into the series. It isnt quite the same thing, but forcing complete noobs to go at each other with different mechanics might be a bit much, especially as power creep makes each new mechanic noticeably better than the prime of the former, only fixed by later releases that the nostalgia craving older mechanic players will lack attachment to. The short version: You are sending the noobs into the deep end to sink or swim if you want it to be a "fair" fight. The skill floor for links is much higher than the skill floor for fusions, just because of the need to keep up with power creep to introduce new mechanics.
If not talking in the mechanical department, you then have to deal with agreeing on the era to send in their champions and finding enough distinct decks that dont overlap.
If a simple "this is how i got my friend into the game" isnt quite what you were looking for, chilledchaos and zeroyalviking had that exact sort of "noob" duel, but in watching both perspectives, it was clear who would be the victor long before the match even started: one of the 2 was rusty, the other was too new to the game to really experiment beyond the first initial suggestion of his coach... I wont spoil which is which, but i know it didnt really scratch my itch once i saw the writing on the wall.
That AVGN quote man, memories ^^
When the AVGN quotes start flying, you know Konami fucked up lol
Yes sir
Konami should have definitely tested this product with new players before releasing it. The big oversight of no playmat is actually insane.
The AVGN Atari 5200 reference blindsided me lmao, but the whole video basically echoes my sentiments.
the quote first appared in the power glove episode not atari 5200. Also that quote is very out of place here. It's not like the 2 player starter set is unfunctional like those two.
@@ellieg8773 For new players they might not know where the cards go
Its insane how the new master duel addition of giving new and returning players a swordsoul deck is just so much better at doing the exact thing this is supposed to do. And for free too.
Yeah even as someone who likes just feeling a deck and discovering the combos on the spot that deck is really fun even as a basic structure deck
I would have liked a couple more copies of the extra deck monster or maybe just sone more from the same architype but even with minimal changes you can generally get your field up
Well apart from bricking (seriously I feel like they increase your odds if triple dark hole level 6 non special summonable monster and like forbidden chalice
Still you can turn it around as long as you don’t babe stupid mistakes like sack an 1800 attack monster to special a 1200 attack monster because you forgot that means didn’t activate its ability to summon a token so you couldn’t build your boss monster meaning they live with 300 LP and turn it around again but that’s not going to happen
Ha… ha…
From a PSCT perspective Eldlich is fantastic. He's teaching players ";" ":" "Targeting" "Then" "and if you do" "hard once per turns". Cost, Activation condition the activated effect when your opponent can respond effect resolution. (Pure guess crow is to stop lich revive teaching hand traps + loosing card advantage). Depending how the included guide explains it, thats all very important game knowledge as the cardboard doesnt glow yellow unfortunately.
Honestly if I was to design this I'd make the comic about an older joey and yugi getting back into the game. The first half would be them going over the basics of the game and 2nd would be them learning newer ones. If I made this a single player starter I'd use 2 different archetype decks each with 2 special summon mechanics . You would not shuffle the deck and fight against a video of pegasus who cheats to know your cards and talk you through the game
I would buy that just to have Pegasus talking smack to me in a game meant to teach me
That would be cool
Unfortunately in the Japanese continuity Pegasus is dead so it’s unlikely Konami would do that
I think maybe having the decks in the box packaged as 2 40 card decks with "basic/universal" cards and then 2(or maybe even more?) 20 card "advanced/specializations" with all the crazy interconnected synergies needed to play their particular special summoning types you can add to those 40 card minimum decks to turn them into 60 card maximum ones.
As much as I like the concept of the pre-stacked decks that play out a scripted duel as a teaching tool, I feel like a simple rule book with a "basic" and "advanced" section, as well as QR codes/instructions to go to a website/TH-cam video for examples of play would sadly work out better.
It's also doesn't help when TCG cards don't have the number symbols to break the text like the OCG cards.
And thats most of the problem with card text. The only reason some of the text on cards is “too long” is because they spend two lines saying an effect is once per turn
Imagine if they started printing cards with effect and activation requirements like rush duels
It's incredible how they managed to make a product that neither new or old players like...
I just bought it before watching this video 😂
2:00
Yes, even the newer Structure Decks. Also the Starter Deck Kaiba that I bought way back when I was a little lad.
I agree with what you said about keeping it archetype based. I feel like the decks similar to what was in the Legendary Dragon and Legendary Hero sets would've been better for starting players. Most everything in those was pretty simple and straightforward, and they gave a good feel for their archetypes but left plenty of room to grow.
Somehow the product specifically designed to help the new player experience managed to fall short of both SPeed Duel box sets, which are a less comprehensive entry point, but allow one to explore the basics and easily get a lot more people involved and Master Duel, which is a free mobile app and provides some of the most intuitive and visual tutorials this game has. At least the concept has some promise in a vacuum, but the execution seems very poor
I think the amount of normal monsters makes sense to teach new players about basic atk/def stats, battling, and tribute summoning first. Starting right with effect monsters could be a bit overwhelming when you don't have any clue yet how to read cards.
Ojama Green, though?
Ryu Ran?
Sparkman? At least they could have done Mechanical Chaser
But dont effect monsters also teach that anyway? Something like a Monarch is a far better way to teach someone tribute summoning than a silly 6 star vanilla. And you will learn standard atk and def pretty easily regardless of whether its a normal or effect monster.
Yes its a new player product but you HAVE to modernize the approach because otherwise they'll have a Rarran experience where the tutorial does NOT prepare you for the actual game.
Yugioh at is base isn't that complicated. Problem comes when completely new players fresh out of tutorial are absolutely blindsided by the pace of the game. You can't expect people to jump into 2024 or heck even 2014 yugioh by merely teaching them 2002 yugioh.
Really shocking that Cimo does not seem to have actually looked at how the scripted duel plays out. The reason there are so many normal monsters is so both players can start with a hand of just normal monsters, learn the basics of combat, and then the game gets progressively more complicated. Looking at card complexity in a vacuum is totally pointless, as is complaining that X card will not be live except in rare situations: That situation is guaranteed to arise!
@@AndHiAgain Ojamna
I like teaching people in segments, where you have normal monsters, some basic effect monsters, some of each spell and trap type. 2 identical decks with basic cards like this are a good place to start, especially if each deck has 1 of each card name.
Then introducing people to fusions, XYZ, synchro, link, and pendulums with a basic strategy for each. If the starter product had 1 deck of each extra type would be good too. Each player could then try each of these decks vs each other for a lot of games.
Probably a total of 7-8 decks would make a nice product.
What would you price a set with 7-8 decks in it? too cheap with too many staples its Yugioh players will just buy them all out. too expensive and new players wont want to invest to get into the hobby.
@@benjaminsmith8377 I’m not entirely sure. It would probably need to be around $50-$80 for newer players to justify buying, given structure deck prices.
If everything were common rarity it could help justify a lower price point. Simpler decks like satellarknights for the XYZ deck, salamangreat for link, or swordsoul for synchro are already pretty cheap, unless you go for secret or ultra rare versions. The $5-10 versions would probably lose some value by doing this. I would think printing everything in common would help. Keeping the decks to simple archetypes that were meta relevant in the last, but no longer top tier would also prevent everyone wanting to buy them. This idea would want to investigate the market to ensure there are no really expensive cards being reprinted for too much cost savings, to help prevent non-new players buying it.
A draft idea is that Konami could work with LGSs to host new-player events where selling these decks could be limited for attending. $10 per deck to play against other new players could be reasonable. If they like it, they can buy another deck next week and play more. I used to go to Toys-R-Us yugioh events on Saturdays when I was a kid and they were fun and casual. They’d offer promos for playing a certain number of games and other achievements in a stamp book. There were achievements for teaching people things also, which helped the community grow. This idea can incorporate registering to help prevent people from buying more than 1 copy of each deck.
I also liked someone else’s idea of offering each deck standalone or in a set of 2 to vs each other. Building on that idea, you could have levels of difficulty where the next level could offer more complicated decks like branded despia, exosister, dragon link, Mathmech, etc, and focus more on hand traps. I wouldn’t want these to provide the most top tier decks, but to build on fundamentals with the difficulty 1 decks, then get players used to the game being combo based with the difficulty 2 decks. Konami would have to ensure the deck power levels were even for each difficulty level also. Maybe swordsoul would fall into difficulty 2 since I think it’s pretty good, even though it’s on the simpler side.
These are all just draft ideas that can probably be refined with some market research and player opinions.
I feel like a 4-deck box would be good. Two starter decks like these that teach the basic mechanics and two structure decks that teach what real Yugioh is like.
Like the first 2 is the cute anime stuff and basic mechanics, and the other 2 are like… idk what’s a good beginner archetype… but you get the point, then they could add Zeus to it… idk why cause that’s like a huge blowout it makes the game feel unfair, but they could also add at least 1 hand trap just to teach how handy they are (heh puns)
Or maybe still have only 2 "decks", but have them packaged in 4 parts: 2 40 card "basic/learning" decks full of relitively universal cards, and then 2 20 card "advanced" expansions that add in the specialized summoning systems and all their support(and maybe some other more "complex" cards too)
Heck, maybe even have such a specialization "expansion" for each type of special summoning system. Though that's asking for a lot of cards up front... and Konami needs a way to make us buy structure decks and booster packs, so there's no way they'd give them out like that.
Personally I learned to play through the Tag Force series of games (it taught me that extra deck monsters get sent to the extra deck instead of returning to the hand with cards like evac device real early) And I feel that 5 and 6's and special's decks were friendly. But for new players? Look at Special's 3 starter decks they all have multiple 2 and 3 ofs and clear strats (while keeping the spells and traps simple) in the main deck and I want to stress the 2 and 3 ofs; as a new player that's less cards I have to memorize! That makes internalizing their effects and how they work easier, it makes thinking of how some of them go together easier and its how I tackle new card games
Tbf they are doing a good job regarding prepping new players to the game. They are teaching them to learn to read a wall of text.
I already had to pause at 1:21 and marvel in awe at that HxH-esque textbox, wow
the random comp reprints show that yugioh needs to support its casual play better. pokemon low play level products dont have the issue of random competive cards and focus on its intended level. yugioh is so comp focused they have to constantly service the competive.
I have to say that im surprised they didnt go with junk cards for the syncro deck, seems like a big missed opportunity.
that would have been an easy anime theme as well with out forcing it too hard. yuma for the XYZ.
When my wife wanted to learn the game, I taught her in eras. Start with the original game and work your way up through the different summoning methods once they totally grasp what came before.
As someone who bought this recently, i was also disappointed there was no paper play mat.
The scripted duel was...entertaining at best. I would have taught this a different way, and i don’t think the physical product is the way to go, albeit the idea is kinda neat to be more "hands on".
Alternatively enough going against what i said in terms of a physical product, i remember the duel masters DVD guide back in the day was very helpful for me and my friends. I don't think Konami should do another one 🤔 but perhaps Dan Green & Wayne Grayson (Yugi & Joey VA's), explaining the rules made the material more interesting to learn at a younger age when it released.
I agree, that fact that this is just a giant mash up of random stuff seems very not Yugioh. It didn't even have to be an archetype, as an example the xyz deck could have been a Fish/Shark deck.
Honestly there is probably no way physical content can get anyone up to speed with modern YuGiOh.
Honestly, YuGiOh: Legacy of the Duelist - Link Evolution is probably the best way to learn. Start off with duels right out Duelist Monsters as the pace slowly speeds up to the pace of 2019. Then the jump from here to Master Duel or the TCG is probably not as jarring a leap
Forbidden Lance would've been great for teaching about effect negation tbh, not much text, straight to the point
Speaking as someone that actually played through the Starter Set, script and all, overall, the best thing(s) I can say is that this should’ve been part 1 of a mini-series of similar sets, with one or two pleasant surprises in showcasing mechanics like Battle Replay, for instance.
I will say that this video did slightly lower my opinion on the set, partially due to things you brought up that I hadn’t even considered, like the lack of playmats. I-wha-what the-WHAT?! That is one hell of an oversight to make.
In the set’s defense, though, some of the card choices make a little more sense if you actually go through the scripted duel. For example, one of the reasons for an abundance of Normal monsters is that the script tries to teach players that there’s technically six different ways a battle between two monsters will play out, and I imagine they felt like having them be effect monsters would distract from that. That’s just speculation on my part, though, and that kind of logic isn’t 100% consistent with the rest of the script IIRC.
To go in another direction, though, maybe trying to teach the game in one duel *is* the problem. Maybe we need multiple sets to fully teach what Yugioh entails. Maybe have a (redesigned) starter set that teaches the basics, then an intermediate set that teaches more nuances in the game, and then an advanced set that either teaches even more complexity and/or introduces cards that break the rules.
It would certainly make for an interesting design challenge, regardless of whether you’re sticking to one set or trying to spread it out across multiple.
Teaching a card game through different releases teaches people 2 things:
1) your game is needlessly complex
2) they're basically paying a subscription to get the privilege of learning your badly designed game.
@@pascalsimioli6777Can't argue with point 1. I don't know how introducing multiple sets to learn the game constitutes a subscription, though.
I found the easiest way for me to relearn the game was though the master duel solo mode. Each mode had a focus on a playstyle and introduced things at a slow enough pace that i felt like it was doing a pretty ok job at letting me know things i didnt know
Solo mode also goes through a massive amount of archetypes and you gain a shitload of cards through it. I think playing it and Legacy Of The Duelist back to back works, but I also suggest an all cards unlocked save for legacy so you can actually play around with building decent decks. Master Duel's biggest problem IMO is how easy it is to waste gems.
I think legacy of the duelist link evo is a good way to learn the basics
They should've followed Pokémon and Magic with a rotation of legal sets being allowed. It would've made things more accessible for new players, and keep the craziness of the meta in line.
Cimo is a great teacher, I'd love to see him put together his own "new player" starter decklists.
There were 2 good options they could have done for the decks.
Generic Xyz and synchro(goblindberg type stuff vs jester confit type stuff)
Or
Onomatopoeia vs junk/stardust
They did neither and gave you ojamas
Even when there is no intro he finds a way to include a
HOWEVER!
Really enjoy the podcast like discussion videos. Hope to see this kind of thing regularly!
It used to be the content he regularly made lol
*(TL,DR at the bottom)*
- the biggest issue with this product is that it doesnt teach you deck building principles at all, which is arguably the most important thing in both casual and competitive play.
i want to stress that the difficulty of the environment isnt important for this. noone will play 'lord of d.' and 'flute of summoning dragon' in blue-eyes when you can play 'galactic spiral dragon' instead. the importance of deck building is critical to both having fun in yugioh and winning.
- the cards stink, there are better, more modern (and simpler) cards that do the same thing that these cards do. like including piper for example, that doesnt help you in any way to understand flip mechanics, whereas shaddolls, a set of cards that both activate when sent by card effect, trigger when flipped and can be used as fusion materials (even when face down) would be better inclusions that apprentice piper. the point here is: if you're teaching new players about how the game is played, you wanna teach them about when cards trigger and why, and how those two things synergise. it teaches you timing as well. piper doesnt
- the 'rule book' doesnt actually teach you how and why something happens, it just tells you that it happens, no explanations, no reasons, just tells you to do the thing and you do it.
like if it dumps an extra deck monster, then never revives it, the 'rule book' doesnt tell you that you can't revive it because it wasnt properly summoned, instead, it just never does that interaction and never clarifies.
i could go on for ages about this bad product, but the solution is simple:
a much easier fix would be to make the official rules accessible to all players by printing a rulings handbook for OTS stores to sell. and maybe much like the manga books, include a sealed promo or 2 with the handbook.
Props to cimo for being one of the few big creators that went and actually pointed out the flaws in this "starter set" product.
Honestly it's kind of embarrasing for creators like MBT or Farfa to give so much praise to a flawed product like this when it fails on what it aims to do, for example some of it's biggest mistakes being no playmat, no tokens, a super messy and wordy rulebook "comic" that doesn't even explain everything there is to know about the game, really weird and janky starter decks, etc.
Konami should do much better than this and we should let them know.
I didn't get why Konami made this kind of product. I played Yu-Gi-Oh from the early days and back then the structure decks have the rule book included. When I purchased my Illusion of the Dark Magician and Rise of the Blue-eyes, they didn't have the rule book. My son was able to grasp the game easily when we first played the structure decks as is. I have looked up online the additional rules and after a match my son was hooked and now after giving two more SD to build his own deck, he was able to play it with ease (he has yet to play with Pendulum and Link monsters). I guess Konami still needs to refine its methods in teaching the game and for the veterans of the game they should also try playing with a new player using a deck showcasing the basic mechanics.
i really like this discussions videos, love to see different opinions from titans in the comunity!
33:52 The only way to fix that issue is for the power level and available card types to be reset to where Edison format is and have it be made Yugioh's flagship format for tournament play. I'm not saying all Yugioh should be Edison, I'm saying create new sets with new cards and only Fusion and Synchros in the Extra deck at the complexity level of Yugioh in the time of Edison. Then include some additional rules to fix some of the inherent issues of Yugioh which led to insane power levels.
As an example, in Yugioh it's impossible to have monsters which are part of long-term effect engines because you need to destroy your opponent's monsters to advance your game. This means it's impossible to stick a tiny monster that can have a repeatable advantage generating effect in Yugioh and this resulted in omni-negate boss monsters since having omni-negates was the only way to keep your stuff around for several turns. The solution is to change the rules so that you can attack directly if your opponent has ATK position monsters and only DEF position monsters completely stop someone from attacking directly. It gives defense position a better function in the game.
Another example is building strategies around the attributes instead of archetypes. Include Speed Duel type skill cards with different combinations of attributes on them and the players are locked into the attributes of the skill they choose. It's the colour system but not tied to the resource system since Yugioh doesn't have one. Another version of this is to create dedicated boss monster sub-type which have multiple attributes and you choose one to be your deck master, locking the attributes to it's own.
People love Yugioh and formats like Goat and Edison exist because people want the experience of a simpler game which Yugioh was.
I have been teaching the game to a younger player recently - started with speed duels and then moved on to Goat Format (which is a great teaching tool because of the emphasis on resource management and because there are so many videos on TH-cam where people demonstrate the strategies. Very interesting to hear your perspective on this product as an introduction to the game. It seems like a huge missed opportunity for Konami: limited formats (like your progression series) have never been more popular and there are a ton of creators hopping into the limited format space. It seems like it would have been possible to create an introduction to the game that imitated some of the popular features of limited formats - something like a DM era structure deck with five packs of sets from the era. You get some of the fun of pack opening and deck building but with a lot of guidance. Then, if the new player is enjoying the experience, there would be a 5Ds and then a GX era product a few months later for them to level up and learn the game. It's not an ideal solution but it ypasses the problem of teaching twenty year's worth of mechanics in one afternoon and it incorporates the appeal of opening packs to build up your deck.
1:43 AVGN reference 🤓
Zeus seems like a great include honestly AS A BOSS MONSTER SPECIFICALLY. You say how it’s better for this starter set to focus mostly on simple, intuitive cards, but like… Yugioh doesn’t have a lot of those nowadays. Having a big epic robot man with a board wipe, a relatively simple summoning condition and a boatload of attack makes for a card that would stick out in a lot of kids minds. And they can take that Zeus with them into future, more advanced decks, since it’s still a very good card even in the modern game. Yeah, it has a lot of text, but that’s something about modern Yugioh that does need teaching. Figuring out which effects are relevant and which aren’t. It’s not like Zeus has a bunch of ongoing effects, they’re pretty one and done.
Yeah, Zeus is like the best card for this. What's the point of a Yugioh new player product that doesn't even have anything to do with modern Yugioh. Zeus is as good of an introduction as it gets
Ngl the first time i played Masterduel and someone summoned a Zeus on me i was confused AF cause i'd never seen it before. I was like he didn't sacrifice 2 level 12 monsters wtf.
Ok, but then wtf is the synchro equivalent to Zeus? Trishula? Star Eater? Some other synchro I'm not thinking of right now? You can't have one deck's boss be generic while the other one is a boss centered on an archetype (one that they didn't even bother to flesh out the entire starter deck with, btw). Both sides need to have that giant "modern era" boss that's generic and is the deck's overall "win-con"
@@vgmaster02 No, nothing says that it has to be "generic", it just has to be reflective of modern Yugioh. There is no Synchro equivalent because as a mechanic anything generic in terms of Synchro just turns broken (see Baronne), so you just go to the next best thing and design a deck that can make Chaos Angel or something.
Chaos Angel even has the benefit of beating Zeus in battle while still lose to Zeus effect so it adds a nice bit of mirroring
@@vgmaster02 baronne de fleur?
Ya know its funny i was just playing the Starter Set with my Fiancee and i REALLY was feeling the lack of a playmat. Even just a cheap paper one would've worked wonders i feel
Y'know, after hearing your opinions of this, it seems they were actually onto something when they got the idea for a school teaching how to play a card game. It's starting to seem like we need one at this point. 😆
Glad you are here to critique this set because so many people were defending this saying it was good.
Its bad for literally everyone.
Its bad for new players. Its bad for old players.
This product is for almost no one.
Ive seen this product played in person and it goes off the rails without guidance from someone that knows what they are doing so fast.
On top of that the question gets asked "What do we do when we have played 1 time"
You just end up with a pile of worthless cards likely in the hands of 2 players that still have no clue in the world as to how to play the game still.
As a newish player who migrated from magic and hearthstone the one thing I can take with me from those two games that would help a new player a lot would be something like a standard format.
There's way too many available cards for a new player to digest.
I wish the comic told the synchro player to banish Eldlich with DD Crow
I think the idea of specific archetypes would be great. It keeps things a lot simpler. Fusion could do something like maybe Fluffal, Ritual could be maybe Nekroz? Solid archetypes for all options. As someone relearning the game i agree this product looks bad
Great discussion. Overall I like the product but I'm a guy that buys all the starters and structures when they come out no matter what just because I enjoy playing them with friends. Limited formats like that are my absolute favorite to play. Structure vs structure right out of the box. That's fun to me.
Konami either doesn't know what they're doing or they want to cover up how fucked up Yugioh's design has become. Either scenario is bad.
Modern yugioh is just Ass, I honestly don’t even know what makes these “new” players get into the game nowadays
@@UTgohanHow so? Asides from the artificial price increases via shortprints and upping of rarity, the game in itself is fine.
Yugioh has now become an even more interactive puzzle game. You problem solve and try to break certain boards while implementing the varying strategies dependent on what kind of deck you are playing. The mind games and bluffs that ensues is what I love about modern Yugioh.
In terms of interaction heading into 2024, I’d argue Yugioh is in a very good space especially when you consider how heavy a hand trap format we are entering into.
I take it you never played halo when it first came out
The game isnt even yugioh lol the way it’s played it should be it’s own format honestly. Everydeck played “hand traps” Everydeck vomits a ton of monsters in one turn and most games don’t last more then 2 turns
@@UTgohan Then again, it's always a case of two evils of either nothing happening for several turns straight, or things moving at breackneck pacing
“I can’t believe I’m gonna say this but Blackwing could be the answer here” No Cimo…. You knew EXACTLY what you were doing here 😂😂
I feel like one of the best ways to get a new player into the game would be for konami to create better incentives (such as cash prizing) to attract people who are willing to invest the time to conqure to skill curve. Yugioh will never be the simple game it started as, and so i dont think konami can ever release a simple product that succeeds in introducing people to the very complex modern game.
several archetypes just straight up function exist with a thrice per turn cap to special summoning. Like VW will *maybe* be able to make shenshen and have Nyannyan out and that’s it. It’s entirely built around bringing out all 5 main deck VW monsters over the course of the turn and without that it has absolutely nothing to do.
They should've added non playables like Tyrant Neptune or Heavy Storm so the players can own cards from the Banned List too
@ 34:35 - "there isn't necessarily a right or a wrong way to learn"
As someone with non-zero experience being a professor / instructor / classroom facilitator at the post-secondary level (for mostly first-year undergraduate students), yes, there is more than one effective way to learn - but there are also many, many, many 'wrong' ways to try and teach people.
I think this 'Starter Set' - and the discourse that it's generated in the community - might be revealing something very interesting about the mindset of many Yugioh players. This mindset might be majorly mistaken or at least majorly misguided. I'd make a video about this if I weren't both injured and under some real-life deadlines at the moment.
But basically, the major issue that I'm seeing is that players are effectively looking for what amounts to 'Pedagogy Circular' - the cards that can just do everything all at once as efficiently* as possible. To use some gamer jargon that I don't see very often in Yugioh contexts: players have been trained to highly value "role compression" - when you have 1 thing that does more than 1 thing, this is efficiency and versatility from a strategic point of view. In competitive Yugioh, we like cards with role compression because cards are resources, and the more roles those resources can fulfill, the more valuable they are (from a strategic point of view).
Yes, a card like [Visas Starfrost] /would/ be very efficient at quickly exposing players to many parts of the game all at once. . . but that's not a good thing from a pedagogical point of view. When it comes to teaching and learning, this is often the exact opposite of what you would want. Generally, you would want /de-compression/ - pulling things apart, pacing it out, and extending the look at each individual part so you can focus on each thing. Once you learn the parts, you slowly begin cobbling them together and then using what you've built as a base or frame to better learn the next thing. This is called "scaffolding."
Building a deck that is most efficient at quickly showing off all the different facets of Yugioh's game mechanics AND the trends of its meta-game competitive aspects . . . might be one of least effective things to shoot for in teaching new players meaningful things.
One thing that would remove complexity, but is never going to happen because that is how Konami operates these Starter/Structure products: Just put in multiples of some cards. If you put Warrior returns alive in here, give them 2 or 3 of that and then 2 or 3 Sparkman Heroes/any Warrior that is not too complex and you just shaved off some more complicated cards.
adding a book to read is basically the same as giving someone a VHS tape of how to do it oddly enough though the VHS wouldve been better
I remember there being "how to duel" dvds at Toys R Us sat next to the Yugi and Kiba starter decks.
These seem like common complaints.
I think having an archetype, specifically HERO, might be useful for Fusion and Link summoning.
I dont think 25 years is the problem. Magic is much older than yugioh and I dont think Im having a problem playing the game. I just wish they dont write paragraphs on these new cards. They are also written in the way that it is too annoying to read them
I do agree with a lot of what is being said, but I'm gonna vouch for Eldlich's inclusion. Yeah, it has a lot of text on it, but i think it can teach a lot of important lessons about modern yugioh.
First off, it teaches the difference between destroying and sending to the gy. Like, have the opponent's deck include a battle floater and have the Eldlich player send it, preventing its effect from triggering, something along those lines.
Second, you can pair it with cards like galaxy cyclone or breakthrough skill to show the importance of gy setup.
Third, and probably most important in my eyes, it can teach the importance of utility monsters. The other deck has d.d. crow, so you could have a turn or two to show how much of a recursive threat Eldlich is, then you can banish it with d.d. crow.
The decks are far from a perfect teaching tool for new players, but there are some neat synergies here.
this requires having a literal teacher. The average new player hopping into this game has to go out of their way to find this information, and no good game is designed in such a way
@@IIIIAmSHODAN the point of the 2 player starter set is to teach you how to play the game through a scripted duel. They could just explain the points I made in the script as you're playing
For a boss monster that I found when I first opened was Tierra, Source of Destruction. I read it for the first time (too much text for a brand new player) but the artwork is really cool, and the effect is cool when it resolves.
1. specials at any point once you have 10 other cards in play (not including gy unfortunately)
2. can't be negated (would make the person not playing it feel bad so idk)
3 Wipes everything back to deck, so it is a full reset of the game, except for Tierra itself.
But for younger me, it was so cool that I wanted to build a deck around summoning the card.
23:38 gotta say that Star Changer is an overlooked card, it can mess up the synchros of your opponents, i have seen some videos about those decks and every time, the owner of this card just keep it in hand and the opponents goes off. i like it because is not super powerful but its modularity leads to the strategic element of interaction in yugioh.
Ok but at that point why not just play Stygian Dirge? It's better in every way possible because it affects every monster your opponent controls, not just one
@@Pyrrha_Nikos because that's a floodgate and not a quick play interaction that can benefit you as well as disrupting the opponent.
is like the difference between forbidden chalice and skill drain, one is fun and the other is not
This is also marketed for current players to ensure some kind of profit while gambling on people wanting to buy it to learn to play
I'd personally have a deck of each summoning mechanic that could be a somewhat rogue archtype that can really hammer home how each summoning mechanic works.
I'd go Fluffle for fusion: Don't use the pendulum monsters in this or any archtype i mention and focus on using fusion summoning and get mileage out of poly.
I'd go with Mayakashi with Synchro: While a more complicated archtype, learning Mayakashi would really teach a player how to synchro and how to climb. I think once you learn the loop, it really isn't that hard and then you get down a really strong fundamental on how climbing works. I'd be open to other ideas than this, but it was the first thing i thought of that really pulled the strength of synchro and how to climb.
Gagaga or Photon toolbox: This one is a bit more generic, though i think teaching players that generic support can be strong and just how versatile the xyz rank 4 toolbox is can really teach them that they can use the extra deck as a one stop shop to solve any situation they're in. it'd be the lowest ceiling of any of the decks, but it would never really be stuck and out of luck if it can land 2 rank 4s on board.
Igknight would be how i'd teach Pendulums; Let's be clear, Pendulums are the outlier of the summoning mechanics, so to teach them i'd really want to focus on the pendulum mechanics and not the monsters around it. So a fully normal monster deck with all the same pendulum effect could really help players understand the mechanic without being overwhelmed. This deck would have to have the strongest trap and spell support to stay in line with the other decks, but i think it could be done to balance the decks out while teaching the player how pendulums work on paper.
For links, this one was the hardest for me to land on, but Gouki felt like the right level of learning how to link with a good focus on it while not being distracted by other mechanics. This one i'd be willing to hear other ideas the most however
finally, if you were to look into also including main deck mechanics like tribute or ritual decks:
For rituals i'd go with impcantation with a splash of Demise, this would be a nice strong board wipe option while giving the players a nice splashable engine for other ritual archetypes if they wanted to use it.
and then for tribute, it's really either monarch or true draco, so take your pick. I'd argue that true draco is stronger but monarchs are more iconic. But these could just be ignored all together really.
3:57 i mean if they dont want to read the rulebook they are already on course with every other player. Nobody reads - not even their own cards.
I feel the scripted duel demonstration is being somewhat heavily overlooked here, but this feels more like a demo product you do to introduce one friend while the other already knows the game, I cant imagine 2 brand new players buying this and udnerstanding what is happening.
For the normal monsters I think that the best option would actually be one of the 2K beaters. This would make a better turn 1 play because one player would look at the hand and see, "None of my level 4 or lower monsters has more than 2000 ATK" which can be an aside that teaches "usually level 4 or lower monsters don't have more than 2000 ATK" and in the context of a scripted duel it immediately provides a problem that one player needs to solve.
Cardcar D referencing main phase 1 is one thing but I think my own gripe with it being included is that it's a card I think is too risky for a new player. "I have to give up my entire turn just to draw 2?" It sets expectations but I can't help but feel like there are far better choices to introduce whatever it was trying to introduce.
D.D. Crow is a fine addition but the way the scripted duel uses it is insane. "Your opponent sent Skill Successor and Golden Lord to the GY this turn. Use D.D. Crow on... Skill Successor." Then when the decks are shuffled the Xyz player is sitting with a freaking GOLDEN LORD in GY and the set acts like it's not a foregone conclusion. On top of the Xyz player getting Zeus, them also having Golden Lord makes me suspicious that the person who took the Synchro deck will generally have a worse time just from the product lineup.
Sergeants is definitely an odd pick but I think Catastor wouldn't be fun to include, because it would be too annoying to play against. There aren't a ton of fully generic Level 5 Synchros with simple and fun effects unfortunately but something like Hi-Speedroid Chanbara is probably generic "enough." If the deck gets more Warriors (I think that Sergeants is part of why they needed so many Fiends in the deck) then X-Saber Wayne or Scarred Warrior would probably be a fine level 5 Synchro.
My issue with Rhynosaber is that it's a really passive card. Like it can become a big boy but its primary effect is to just replace itself with different cards. That's not really fun for a player, to say, "Yay, I got out my Synchro monster... Now I'm going to immediately tribute it." A generic level 7 like Kuibelt the Blade Dragon that has a floating effect rather than a "send me to the GY" effect would be better. Or Samurai Destroyer - I know that the idea of Night Beam feeling bad to play against is a reason to cut it but a "non-reactable" effect on a boss monster like Samurai Destroyer would be fine to make it feel like an actual impactful monster, and it being on a monster sitting on the field allows the opponent to strategize around it - plus the decks don't have too many battle traps so Samurai Destroyer would not often feel that bad to play against. I'd probably opt for Samurai Destroyer.
While I think leaning full into archetypes might be a bit too much and you could easily to "archetype-esque" and just have a deck with a general focus without specifically being an archetype, like "Warrior Synchro vs. Sharks" or "Fiend Synchro vs Machine Xyz."
The way i would do it, is have multiple starter decks.
First would be like a 20 card deck with just GOAT format cards to teach the basics ( summoning, where trap and spells go, learn the different phases, how to battle)
Then i would have a 30 card deck with two easy archetypes for synchro and xyz. Have the player choose 10 of the generic cards from the 20 card deck to complete the deck to 40 cards. This teaches them how they can use cards to make their deck better.
The third deck would be the same idea but with link and fusion mechanics.
I just realized another really good card for a starter product: Bubonic Vermin. It teaches the Flip mechanic, Special Summoning, a sort of tutoring/floating, and shows that you can have multiples of the same card in your Deck, for better (I can get to the card more easily) or worse (Dangit, I drew multiple Vermin in my opening hand).
Im going to be honest; when my friend wanted to get back into the game, i told him the best way to learn was to pick up the game Legacy of the Duelist: Link Evolution and from there i guided him with strategies and deck building until he felt comfortable building a real life deck which i also helped with by giving him extra copies i had or helping with trades for cards he needed. He's still learning rulings and some new mechanics but hes doing well enough on his own that hes feel comfortable playing the game at his own pace at locals despite losing frequently to meta decks. Hes learning his decks weaknesses and strengths and started to seek cards on his own to strengthen his deck and be prepared for particular strategies that give him a hard time. I hate directing new players toward a video game, but honestly, Legacy of the Duelist is the way to go. It covers the new mechanics and gives them story as well as story based decks to help them learn the mechanics at their own pace and rewards losing with DP that can be used to purchase packs in game without the involvement of real currency.
One point for Burden of the Mighty in the XYZ deck is to teach that Ranks are not Levels
I'm still amazed after all this time they haven't realized they could just produce a tutorial app, they have master duel they can take that and turn it into a interactive even scripted tutorial that could be made more engaging with voice acting and animations.
With the 25th anniversary having a focus on archetypes over anime why not have us learning Fusion with Albaz and characters from that lore even HERO cards give the archetypes a voice for kids to get attached to while teaching them.
you can even tie it into new products like buy a new structure or starter use the QR code with the app and get a tutorial or scripted duel that teaches the lines.
I really like the archtype idea at the end. I think a simple pure Metalfoes deck with some generic tuners and a generic Extra Deck of simple text monsters is good for new players because Metalfoes is actually good, it can play very simple, and introduce new players to Links, Fusion, Xyz, Synchro, Pendulum, even Tribute Summoning, either individually and then incorporate all of them slowly.
The new player learns Pendulum first to get the most complicated summoning mechanic out of the way. Fortunately, Metalfoes are mostly normal and all have the same Pendulum text which are very short making it easy to remember.
At the same time they learn Fusion to use the Metalfoes fusion cards.
Only Pendulum and Fusion will be taught first in part 1 of the tutorial. Until they get used to it they cannot advance, but once they do they proceed to Xyz and slowly get used to it and incorporate Xyz in the practice duels alongside Fusion and Pendulum Summoning.
It's easier to see the same levels then adding up levels. That's why I chose learning Xyz before Synchro.
Then Synchro and repeat the process. Then lastly Links. The ultimate and final graduation test is to play the deck incorporating everything you learn, and Metalfoes can play Tributes, Synchro, Xyz, Pendulum, and Links.
I believe the new player can do it with a mostly Pure Metalfoes deck.
I disagree. I don't think we should try teaching Pendulum first. After all, if all of their monsters are Pendulum at first, and then they get to learning with Non-pend monsters, it feels like a downgrade. I think it's best to teach a mechanic as an "add-on" to pre-existing knowledge, to minimize what they have to learn at first. Like, what's the relevance of learning how restricted Pend summoning from the ED is without seeing how UNrestricted it is with other mechanics?
I think a good beginner archetype for the Synchro deck would be Speedroid; Terrortop, Double Yo-Yo, and Red-Eyed Dice all have very simple, yet powerful effects. Probably wouldn't include the more complex cards like Cork Shooter tho.
I completely agree it should have been archetype specific. I played Yugioh back in the DM era when I was a kid, grew out of it, and didn’t pick it back up until Zexal. Decided I wanted to play irl again and picked up Bujin. Helmet, ik, but great for a new player. Super simple effects, taught combos on how to xyz summon, had searchers, hand traps, defensive and offensive options. Cards to activate in the graveyard. It really helped me learn the competitive scene again and how much the game had changed. And once you master how to play your deck it makes it so much easier to look at other cards and understand what they do. “Oh this works similar to Yamato” or “ok this is like bujincarnation” ect. There are so many simple Yugioh archetypes that this would be easy and cost effective for them to make.
That being said, it can’t be “structure deck” focused. Where there is 1 copy of the decks best cards. It needs to be fully constructed decks with 3 ofs, 2 ofs, ect to show that running multiples of your power cards and engine is crucial for consistency.
Great video as always Cimo
They could have put gravity bind or level limit area b in there for attraffic control to teach how xyz Monsters do not have a level, but a rank.
Cimo please bring the intro back for these discussion videos … for nostalgia reasons 😂
a couple solutions since this an ongoing issue for the game that needs to be addressed, but creating two
"archetypes" meant specifically for teaching the game. that way they could touch base on everything in meaningful and intuitive and in two decks that can work independently.
another option is a similar product with much better revisions but using the evolution method where you have the small packages that you open and are advised a list to make changes in the deck. " this pack will teach you about fusion and ritual summons" "this will teach you about traps and hand traps" etc. and they can ramp up the amount of text and reduce the amount of cards you add each evolution pack to add into your deck
only worry about that option is cost since it will probably contain more card and want to charge for them.
I played this with my partner, (who has a masters degree in engineering) and at some point it just got exhausting. The phases of the game from draw to end, normal summoning, setting, attacking, life points, spell and trap cards were all somewhat fine. But as soon as another card turned up, that was like full of text, it felt depressing for her. It was too much information in too little time (we needed almost 2 hours for the scripted duel (I play this game for 15 years now, so i knew what happened, but she had a lot of questions). I even brought playmates so that it is easier to understand and that helped a lot actually. But Cards like Zeus and the Mannadium one are just far too complex and even some effect monsters took us more than 10 minutes in order for her to truly understand what she was doing (which was not fun). When we then ended on explaining chains, she was like "Yeah whatever" and honestly me too. You definitely need more products that explain the game step by step. Honestly extra deck monsters are too complex for someone not knowing the game at all and even effect monsters should not have more than 1 or two lines of text. I also severely underestimated how complex this stuff is when you never encountered this before. I believe optimal would be a starter deck for 10 bucks which contains around 20 Cards per deck mostly vanillas and simple spell and trap cards so that you can really learn the game (did this with my partner for the pokemon card game (which I dont know at all) and it was easy to understand, fun and there are follow up products for you to take the next step.
Just to add a bit of context from a new player perspective here... my brother played yugi oh back in the first year it came out... i kept gpoing for a bit but he did not, he also watched the anime... I just Bought a deck yesterday... more like 3 structure decks... i tried to get him to play with me and he said... if the deck is full of effect and weird mechaincs monsters I WILLNOT PLAY... either remove all those monsters or i am not gonna play at all... And honestly i agree with that sentiment from his perspective... i hate having to keep track of 10 effect monsters at the time in both the field and grave yard... it keeps my attention hyper focused on what is going on and makes me forget about having fun... So i think a starter deck with normal monsters on the not so low count is WAY better at least from a beginner's perspective... you can have more text fillled cards in les basic decks but probably not a good idea in STARTER decks...
Funny enough, A lightsworn deck is the most beginner friendly deck. It helped me coming back to the game back then, it helped my friends I introduced. It's got synchro and XYZ, flip, continuous effects, tribute summon, card synergy (archetypes), effects are very easy to understand. It has everything. Konami should've just use that deck.
I think the main problem Lightsworn runs into is the sheer number of cards that enter play when milling happens, especially since a Lightsworn deck is expected to have a good quantity of GY effects. That leads to a lot of things to keep track of at once, especially if multiple milling effects go off.
Additionally, while the risk of decking out oneself is a compelling risk/reward aspect of Lightsworn, I don't know that it's very fun or suitable to a brand new player still figuring things out and probably still playing things very slow and inefficiently. Having deckout constantly looming with that in mind might not be great.
I have a similar experience, Battlin' Boxers helped me get back into the game after not playing since playground goat format. It's also why XYZ is my all time favorite summoning mechanic.
@@laggalot1012Sneak a localized tornado or exchange of the spirit in there to reset the deck. As players get better with the deck, they will likely cut them out.
@@dudono1744 I don't think anyone would like to play those cards. Tornado might as well forfeit the game on the spot, since it shuffles your hand into the deck along with the grave for no pay-off whatsoever, and Spirit probably won't even be live before you deck out, at the rate Lightsworn goes.
@@laggalot1012 Oh, then maybe Exodius.
Magic, the gathering did this back in the 90s. It came with a CD for the PC that had the pre built deck a came with, and it showed you how to play. It was a done very well.
I will argue that 6 normal monsters each deck is fine cause it makes the opening hands less complicated. We all know the problem where you hand the opponent a structure deck and you have to wait for them to read all their cards. By having the first 6 cards not have any effects it makes the game much easier as you have safety in having cards that are basically numbers (Level, ATK, and DEF) and now only have to read 1 card a turn afterwards.
Now 7-8 normals is definitely pushing it.
You have the scripted duel, you can just tell the players to only look at the 1-2 cards they'll play this turn.
36:36 Cimo really busted out the “Why don’t we play…. BLACKWINGS” 😂😂
1:42
>AVGN
>wise
Godspeed to you, man of culture. Colorful way of getting his point across, but we've still learned plenty from Rolfe.
_(No, you don't have to "pick one".)_
I agree 100%. The only real way to solve the learning curve is to introduce the learning difficultly level system that pokemon has.
This would require an entire line of products to teach this curve. Id also have the tutuorials for the prodcucts be youtube video you can scan a qr code for.
In addition just having konami hasve a dedicated video series going over everything the simple complex things. You can have them in different playlists and in a good learning order for players to follow.
Its going to take a huge amount of investment on konamis side to set all of this up.
A few years back, when i was teaching yugioh to my friend, I also made a deck for myself and him and i made a scripted duel for us and I personally think that I did a better job than this product, altho i only explained the fusion monsters back then
I’m kinda sad because I was going to pick this up for my wife and I, but seems like it might just be a waste of money.
Konami didn't give a duel mat or tokens which the synchro deck has tokens 😂 it's even worse that they don't explain the monster zones or spell and trap card zones, atleast they don't teach the new players about pendulum summon