"Just tear it into little pieces, then it can't come back" He says, jokingly, playing the game that actually has a card that tells you to rip it apart for its effect.
That’s a very nice board state you have there, be a shame if the Chaos Orb hovering above it suddenly gets shredded. i pay 1 and tap Chaos Orb, ggNOre.
Even funnier is that allegedly that card "Chaos Confetti" is based on a player literally shredding the card "Chaos Orb" to pieces at an event to maximize it's effect.
😅🤭 That one made me laugh. I love how kinda "Does it say, it can't?" or "Does it say, you can't?" have become Cimoooooooo's catch phrases at this point.
Madolches in Master Duel can do that due to the fact Chateau doesnt specify what kind of monsters can be returned to hand instead of deck by a Madolche effect. The green Vernuslyph can even Foolish Maxx C into the grave.
"I ruined my opponents day and kept them from enjoying the game, you think that's not what this game is about now mortal..." Basically the yugioh community to every other TCG player that isn't yugioh.
The difference is that in MtG, if you hate your opponent and wish to cause them misery you play control decks with lots of blue cards and it takes FOREVER for them to lose. In YGO, you just win before the opponent gets to play a card.
I love how CGB accidentally described Mystic Mine when talking about how Final Countdown could potentially see play in a problematic deck if the right cards existed.
@@EarthSpirit.easyzdota"Maybe there was a deck for it ... when something was too good. ... Some kind of a, 'nothing can attack, ever' was too good. Maybe this got some play. But this wouldn't be the card you ban. You would ban the card that made this card good." While they were never the best thing one could do, Mystic Mine made Final Countdown playable for a while because Mine, between not allowing attacks and also preventing monsters from removing it, was some kind of a 'nothing can attack, ever' card. It was overtuned, it was the problem (to such an extent that it turned out Final Countdown is not necessary), and it was the card of the two that eventually got banned.
Most of the answers he gets wrong is purely due to lack of knowledge of how the meta works now and how the meta was at a time a card got banned while also being misled a lot by Cimoo. I get that you can’t give hints but it just feels odd not just explaining a little more for basic understanding for a pure educated guess
In Magic: The Gathering, the players are gods playing chess against each other with their individual mortal armies. In Yu-Gi-Oh!, the players are gods in a drunken bar fight frantically hurling celestial bodies and cosmic forces at each other until one of them falls into the family guy pose.
@@FaultyWirestv Wow. That's pathetic. I am actually embarrassed for you. To attack my academic status for believing the more fun and interesting game is better. Without mustering a single defence of MTG, even though I haven't attacked it's quality and have simply stated Yugioh is a better game. Yugioh is unfortunately without comparison. Yes the metagame is insular and annoying, but a games top level alone is not indicative of quality. The game simply has more options than any other, the best resource system, the greatest playstyle variety and the most interactive boardstates. Not to mention some of the best cartoons of a generation. So if you want to argue with insults, go for it. But it sure doesn't make MTG look better
@davidtowers1863 I don't play mtg. You made a lot of assumptions. Yugioh just sucks a lot of ass and has immense meta game problems they'll never solve until they get a standard rotation. The only people who play it are children and people who refuse to grow up and play a better card game in favor of garbage mechanics and a neverending growing card pool that ensures gameplay is stale as long as possible.
Based purely on his analysis of the last card, I believe CGB has exactly the correct amount of reading comprehension needed to pickup the game of Yu-Gi-Oh! and become a champion player.
It's really funny that CGB said "MAYBE [Final Countdown] saw a period of success when the meta shaped in just the right way for this card to be good, like there's a card that freezes your opponent's monsters indefinitely, MAYBE it'd be good then, but even then you ban that OTHER card, not this one" cuz that's exactly what happened when Mine Burn was a thing 😭
SPOILERS FOR THE VIDEO ---- Okay so the Maxx C thing triggered me so I'm gonna explain why it's so absurd in YGO for any curious MTG players. So Pot of Greed just draws two cards, that's all it does, and that card is banned. Upstart Goblin only draws one card AND gives the opponent 1000 LP, and that card was limited to one copy for most of its lifespan. If you respond to an effect the opponent is using that special summons a monster with a Maxx C, you have already gotten the value of an Upstart Goblin. If they special summon one more time, you activated Pot of Greed. Any more than that and you have obtained more card draw than a Pot of Greed. And almost every YGO deck in the game can **easily** special summon ten or twelve times in a turn before they manage to put an actual threat on the board.
@@nightwish7074 I think it might be from trying to mentally compare it to something like mystic remora, which draws a card on non creature spells effectively, then it keeps getting more expensive each turn you keep it in play. Which isnt really played in single player formats as its to easy to play around to be worth it. Meanwhile its a multiplayer all star becuase forcing 3 players to either only playing creatures or falling behind is great. But even a remora that drew from opponents creatures would be pretty oppressive, so yeah i do have a hard time to see it being bad if translated to magic.
@@nightwish7074 yeah but the guy figured most decks would only special summon once or twice a turn. which for a long time in yugioh was the case, and maxx c was just an ok/fair card
@@herebedragon That's how it was for the first couple of years after Maxx "C" was released honestly, but modern YGO is way too fast for Maxx "C" to be ethical
I'm still waiting for them to adapt something like OCG Adventures or whatever it's called, the manga where they're just normal kids living in a world exactly like ours, except they have duel disk holograms. The characters play modern decks and everything. It's not the most gripping entertainment every, but it would give a chance for modern cards to actually show up.
The thing is, CGB's evaluation of Maxx "C" "maybe there are some matchups where this is good but maybe there are some matchups where you only draw 1 or 2 cards" is 100% spot on... for 2013 when this card came out Maxx "C" only became broken as the game transitioned from "back and forth grind game" to "everyone has an explosive turn 1 and either wins or loses on turn 2"
Yeah, I didn't think it was particularly fair to call CGB wrong on this one, because he described the exact reasons to use Maxx "C", and openly admitted that it would be insane if it got dropped against a deck that spammed a lot of special summons. However, he also clearly had NO clue how many SS can happen in a single turn, based on his reaction to "30 cards". He was probably thinking along the lines of the similar cards in MTG, where you might go +1~3 on a good turn. There's no way he could've anticipated the sheer volume of Special Summons that are done in YGO these days, let alone that certain decks could feasibly deck the opponent out on the effect.
Most good decks in modern YGO don't go THAT far anymore, thats Blackwing or Raidraptor territory, or brews that can just spin their wheels to punish Maxx C, but like, most of the good decks, which will it must be admitted, still do quite a few, are actually fairly grindy nowadays, the scales have shifted and endurance is really valuable in a deck now because big Fuck You Lose boards aren't unnavigable, and oft get disrupted from their full potential Blowout moves still matter, but they can be defended against in turn Maxx C still often slams out huge gains Hell, a lower tier but still meta deck that Maxx C DOES often go low against is Labrynth, many times you'll get 1, if you don't whiff entirely launching it in draw, and I think the most I've given was 4(Welcome Lab, Big Welcome Lab, Lablab, Lady, Arianna/Arianne, Arias, and Torbie are your sources, but you don't do ExDeck comboing off it much of the time, and a lot of that action is on your opponent's turn)
@@ILikePi31415926535 though to put that in context, what this is really saying is "maybe there are some matchups where it draws half your deck, but maybe there are some matchups where it's only Pot of Greed..."
It's always problematic, though. If the opponent only does one special summon, you've thinned your deck one card for effectively free. If they do two, you got a Pot of Greed.
In the (hopefully distant) future… Cimo: “CGB, you know how you told me to call you if something happened. Well, it finally happened…” CGB: *opens his secret vault to break out 3 max rarity copies of Mystic Mine while maniacally cackling to himself*
Just because there are comments in the community post about running this video format to the ground, please do. When you've reached the earth's core, please continue until you've exited through the other side of the planet, and run it even further until you've hit the escape velocity and become the second moon. Call me sad or pathetic all you want, this has been the highlight of my day for the last few weeks anytime there's a collab video between Cimo, CGB, or Rarran
Personally I enjoy the video format but do wish that Cimo would have someone else familiar with the game do a quick double check to avoid stuff like the wind-up hunter mistake as well as doing an extra pass of the videos to avoid mistakes like what happened with the mbt anime trivia.
Cimo’s the only person who does this format well. Farfa’s also cool but not as much as Cimo. Stevie Blunder’s was the worst honestly because he straight up calls good cards bad with dumbest reasoning.
@@blackflame91 Well, MTG already has many cards that do similar effects tbh, but the thing is, they cost mana, and that's what makes a huge difference
@@blackflame91 Look up a deck called Lantern Control in MTG. Essentially uses lock pieces like Ensnaring Bridge, and discards your opponents hand until both players are low on resources. Then uses Lantern of Insight to view the card they will draw, with effects that mill the top card of the deck. You can get the game-state to a point where your opponent will just not be able to draw any relevant cards. Granted, this deck has a lot of moving parts. So while it's seen some competitive play, artifact destruction is usually in most deck sideboards, so it's easy enough to disrupt and ensure the "lock" doesn't happen regularly.
I feel like the real problem that people in other card games have evaluating cards that essentially skip someone's turn is that they simply do not appreciate *just* how aggressive decks in Yugioh are, *just* how easy it is for your opponent to immediately put game on board. As such, they hear "don't do your thing this turn" and they think, "Fine, I'll probably just do it next turn." They simply don't know that you getting that, 99% of the time, you don't get a next turn.
I play hearthstone clones, and I've had to show coplayers some master duel to tell them how devsstating it is to leave me with a board for 2 turns in that game, because otherwise they just don't get it
A good way to think about YGO matches, at least in my mind, is like if a Magic match started with 8-10 lands in play. Taking an extra turn on turn 8 is basically guaranteed victory in Magic, so an extra turn in YGO is also basically the same as winning.
the Maxx C analysis is heartbreaking because it really is kind of impossible to truly understand how important special summoning is if you haven't played/watched the game. Like, sure, you can think about all of the special summoning you know about, especially the explanation of the wind-up deck, but it still probably won't click that a turn in Yu-Gi-Oh is often just like. Special summon something to search for X, that you then special summon to search for Y, that you then special summon to activate some effect, then you use all those guys to special summon something from the extra deck, and so on and so forth. It's so hard to put that together in a vacuum.
@@talsen6495 I feel like even that doesn't fully get across how core it is like... yeah you draw/search boatloads of cards in Pokemon, but once you factor in monster effects Special Summoning is just how you do so many of your game actions in Yu-Gi-Oh because Special Summoning a monster can do so many different things.
he knew about pot of greed. so no. even in a vacuum the cards insane. he was also shown the card after vanity's where it was explained special summoning was good. brain dead take
@@MrZacdeath I disagree, since there are a few important things you need to know to evaluate if it is good or bad. 1. How common is SS? Do >50% decks use this mechanic and do these decks really use it consistently each game? If you don't get consistent value out of it and it sometimes is a dead card, then it is just a very good hate card that might be dead more often then not. 2. What I did not understand/forgot about SS is that you can react to it and draw at least the one card from it, so even if SS would be more situational for many decks it can at least easily replace itself. I never played YGO myself and only watched a few of the collabs, so it can be really hard to judge these things, especially if you learn so many new things at once and never really see real gameplay.
Wait really? Then why did Wind-Ups stay a tier 1 deck but stop playing Hunter after the ban list? EDIT: Oh, Zenmaity got limited which prevented the Hunter loop, but still enabled the deck to make enough plays to be good. Honestly, based on the fact that it was the best deck even after limiting Zenmaity, and the fact that people also stopped playing Hunter because of it, they definitely made the right choice.
@@Sinzari I think the loop only took 2 cards out of the opp hand at that point but shock master was released as promo shortly after and it turned into a shocklock deck
The fact he couldn't grasp the idea after being explained the Wind-Up stuff shocked me. Also, if there were a Maxx "C" equivalent in Magic, it'd be played in basically every single deck, no question.
@@R41-e9yyes and no. There are quite a few cards in magic that draw you card when you or your opponent summon something, but they are kept in check by the fact they arent free.
I'm at Dimension Shifter and the disparity between CBG's reaction and Rarrans is so fun to see; but in a good way. CGB's staring and wracking his brains thinking of comparisons and situations; whereas Rarran takes basically 5 seconds and goes "This is one of the most terrifying things I've ever seen in my life" Again: this is not hate; I love both the guys and the video they're in. It's just so amusing to me how much even just a little experience and understanding can radically warp a persons entire thought patterns.
Rarran also has experience playing MD, while CGB is rawdogging his takes. It's especially apparent when he didn't realize how common of a mechanic special summoning is. I think the only special summoning mechanics Cimo had shown CGB are Cydra, Reborn, and the implications of Windup Rat's effect. Rarran has played Swordsoul which would get screwed by Shifter, and he's played against Maxx C. Context is truly king, as CGB immediately realized how badly he screwed up with his analysis on Maxx C
@@LjrobisonYeah, with the Maxx C analysis in particular a lot of CGB’s initial thoughts relied on actually getting another turn after it’s played. I don’t remember if Cimo has told him just how few turns a game lasts nowadays, given that everything up until this video has been from the first year or so of the game, but being told “You go, your opponent goes, and then maybe you get to go again and that’s as far as it usually gets” is a HUGE piece of context
He has told CGB before and CGB has made the comparison to vintage and legacy. So like he gets it. Vintage in MTG is about that fast (but crazy enough there are decks that only get to play the one turn, and still win even tho the other guy got two turns.)@@PinkFrappe
And he's completely right about that. It's wild that Yugioh players refused to put answers to one of the most played cards in the game into their deck.
@xXSamir44Xx because the outs are complete bricks. It's a massive gambit ESPECIALLY since you would have to side cosmic in going first where 95% of the time the ONLY target would be the Mine that may or may not even be sided in against you.
One important difference from MTG to YuGiOh I think is that in Magic being unable to draw/fetch an answer that you put in your deck on purpose is a statistical anomaly in competitive Bo3 formats ESPECIALLY if you're a blue player like CGB. You are on average seeing at least 1/2 of your deck by drawing and fetching as a blue player in Magic.
The thing is, he has absolutely no comprehension of what a first turn in Yu-Gi-Oh is. In magic the first turn is usually "play a land, play a 1 drop, pass". There are definitely some combo shenanigans you can pull off, but usually it only really takes form after a bit of setup. Even the newest ban in mtg modern, nabu, winged wisdom, doesn't really pop off until at least the third turn, and that card is more than capable of putting your entire deck on the battlefield. But yugioh got so insane with its combos that hand traps start replacing regular traps just because they are faster. Nibiru, the Primal Being has to be such a insane card to see for any magic player.
The thing is he did have the context clues as he was provided with wind-up hunter. He would know that players start with 5 cards in hand, that wind-up hunter can only be used once while on the field, and it had to be brought back with rat. Even if he assumed the same rat could summon hunters infinitely, that would still be 10 special summons including the monsters that needed to be tributed.
@@AlphaSquadZero That does give the clue that it is very abusable in some decks, yes, but does not say how many decks really lean on the special summon mechanic. If only 20% of decks use SS a lot, then it is a dead card very often, so that is a context he and also myself did not have. Especially when learning 10 new mechanics of a game you never played yourself, it is hard to judge what things are more common and which are more rare.
I think my favourite part of this, and videos like this, is the inevitable exchange of: "Okay... so this seems pretty simple, I can think of a lot of ways that this wouldn't work out, very situational... yeah, I guess it's only okay?" "This is one of the most powerful cards in the game, actually."
@@Naozymandias i mean yeah the effect is actually good, fulfilling the activation requirements however… like im aware mtg has a failed to find rule but in yugioh you can never even activate a card if you preemptively know you cannot resolve its effects so actually being able to activate it is an achievement itself
You really need to show him an actual combo so he understands how Yugioh tends to work when evaluating these cards. Just without explaining too much show some synchro combo that summons a Quasar, a Blazar and something else, i feel like it would make it more interesting.
He doesn't need to, because he told him in one of CGB's videos that modern Yu-Gi-Oh plays the same way as a deck CGB showed its playmaker for evaluation (and unsurprising Cimooooo guess how busted it is)
@@kechitiabderrahmane6357 you can say that but CGB asked Cimo if he was trolling when he said Maxx "C" can draw 30 cards. Maybe 30 is an outlier but it's pretty easy to do at least 20 SS in one turn for 50% of decks
Yeah the video clearly shows that CGB sees the game the way it was played on casual level at 2005 ("Blue Eyes wanna hit face"). He wasn't aware that the Graveyard is a second resource, you can special summon endless or about how important the hand is. I think without all that knowledge you can't rate any of this cards because most of these cards are only good in the very specific context of modern Yugioh. 20 years ago most of these cards would have been garbage. He still thought well about most of this cards for the context he had. If Cimooo gave him more context on how the current game actually works, he would have probably had better chances to understand how these cards work and their toxicity.
@Tollknoll yeah my feeling is that CGB is thinking of YGO as a normal fair-ish card game. He jokes about it, but I don't think he fully understands the scale of degeneracy
Another point regarding shifter is it doesn't ONLY shut down the best decks. Almost every rogue deck also needs the GY and they often don't have as many options against shifter as the tier 1 decks do, so they end up getting hurt even more than the meta decks.
@@azjzkkonzkzkI play graveyard dependent decks and I still find Shifter to be fair in the sense I understand it's meant to fuck with the top decks of the meta. Mine just caught strays.
Magic has a very similar deck to this Skill Drain Aggro deck, called StifleNought. Phyrexian Dreadnought is a 12/12 creature for only 1 mana, but when it enters play it requires you to sacrifice 12 power worth of creatures. With a card like Dress Down as shown in the video, or the titular card Stifle, you can negate this effect and have a massive creature that costs only 1 mana.
That's hilarious! That's exactly how Skill Drain beatdown worked. Now imagine Phyrexian Dreadnought still having haste somehow and you cna really get a fele for the full power of Skill Drain Beatdown. Another common card that was run in that deck was called Goblin Attack Force. This was a very large creature you could normal summon, but when it attacked it would "tap" itself and couldn't untap until the end of your next turn. It also had 0 defense, so literally the weeniest of white weenies could kill it.
@@NovusIgnis still Phyrexian Dreadnought is still bigger than any bungus we could run in a SD beatdown deck back in the day, at 12/12 that's the equivalent of a lvl 4 monster having the statline of Five Headed Dragon lol
@@therranolleo468 Oh I'm aware. I'm a fan of Dreadnought, just never thought to play it with Stifle. That's a hilarious way to use it. I haven't actively played magic in ages but I always jump back in for a pre-release if I like the card art. Got me some of those Phyrexian Oil slicks from the All Will Be One set the last time I jumped in.
an average deck in modern yugioh could do something like "I play a spell card to special summon this monster from my deck. It has an effect to summon another monster from my deck, and this monster in my hand has an effect that lets me special summon it when I have that monster on the field. I send two of these monsters to the graveyard to special summon a monster from my extra deck, which has the effect of special summoning a monster from my graveyard. I bring back the monster I just sent there and activate its effect again, letting me special summon another monster from my deck..." and that can just continue near-indefinitely sometimes
"Maybe special summons are not as uncommon as their name would suggest." This is why TheOneJame always tells his guests that normal summons aren't that normal and there's nothing special about special summons! "Is it possible to play the game without special summoning?" It only just occurred to me that - in terms of monsters - one could think of normal summoning as similar to playing a land, and special summoning as actually spending mana to cast spells.
Thats a good analysis of the dynamic, yeah, Special Summons are special because they have bespoke clauses and conditions, not due to their quantity As for "Without special summoning", thats Floo, which is also Extremely Green/Blue energy
Honestly I just thought they were special because you can't do that summon unless a card effect or rule says so aka no matter how small a requirement has to be fulfilled whereas for a normal summon you can just put the card down. Normal summons can have only restrictions (once per turn, tribute for level 5 or higher etc) while special summons usually have both conditions/requirements and restrictions.... Maybe I am wrong but that's how I always saw it.
@@sammydray5919I mean, functionally your take is correct, but since so many cards or archetypes have text relating to special summoning these days, not counting methods that are more or less involved like XYZ summoning, Pendulum summoning, and Link summoning (which itself is basically contact fusion with extra bits added on and previously more of a pain to deal with), special summoning has become so normalized and common that decks that focus on normal summoning too much just end up falling by the wayside.
That's because "normal" and "special" don't refer to the degree of commonality of the summoning, but the manner in which the card is summoned. They are simply names for the classes of summoning.
As a modest Yugioh player and an avid MtG enthusiast, I hope this helps both CGB and Cimo understand each other's hobbies better. A Normal Summon in Yugioh is very similar to the one land you play each turn in Magic. A Special Summon is the equivalent of being able to put lands from your hand onto the battlefield. Assuming you can pay the cost, or you have met the requirements, you can Special Summon as many times as you want on a given turn, just like, as long as you have the lands in hand, you can put as many lands as you want onto the battlefield. I hope this has been enlightening. Thank you come again.
Magic players sitting down to play: I will make you regret getting out of bed today Yu-Gi-Oh players sitting down to play: I will show you the true meaning of regret
I'm kind of surprised CGB didnt pick up the loophole with Wind Up Hunter, given that there are several strong MtG cards with a similar "can only be activated once" clause on them, and we use flicker style effects (flicker is a card that exiles any creature and then returns them to play immediately) or bounce effects to get around that clause because it counts as a new creature.
The best part about "toxic cards" is they often exist to counter a toxic playstyle that has become too widespread. So it's only toxic toward the players who use toxic playstyles, which is the best way to be toxic.
The way his jaw dropped when he heard the word 30 in terms of special summoning was incredible. Gotta show him the extra deck, and cards that summon/search from deck. Show him synergy in action
I so wish I could be a guy that's just silent in the call for 90% of these yugioh/mtg/hearthstone collabs; I know about all three games but not at a pro level, I would want to just add on facts here and there that would make them think even further. Like comparing anti spell fragrance making instants etc into inactive enchantments (thus vulnerable to removal when normally they wouldn't be).
For Vanity’s Emptiness, the best way to describe to a Magic player how significant special summoning is to YuGioh is to compare it to limiting mana to only being accessible from lands in vintage. In vintage almost everything is artifact mana, the ability to speed up the game via artifact mana in Vintage is about the same speed up power as special summons in Yugioh. In that context, an analogous MtG card would be Null Rod played after you played and used a bunch of your own artifact mana.
Tbf Emptiness also just wasn't great during its initial run which to someone who doesn't play the game and thinks the game is "fair" is actually going to be close to reality. It was very hard to protect the card or anything else on the board back in like early 2010s without losing SOMETHING. MST 2 for 1ed pretty much any time you drew it against Emptiness since there were barely any ways to protect your cards efficiently via monster effects or traps since most ways to protect it would end up with something in the GY (let's pretend Judgment was legal as that wouldn't save you since the Judgment going to the GY would also pop it). The issue started showing up when you could almost guarantee emptiness stayed around a turn, activate any spell on your turn to turn it off. and then OTK.
For the Dimension Shifter part, rather than having some of the decks using the graveyard and it being good in metas where those decks are good, almost every single deck utilizes the graveyard and so it’s used specifically in decks that don’t use the graveyard (which again, is a very small minority of decks)
@@cuttlefish6839 oh definitely. The fact that Yugioh have something called Problem Solving Card Text should tell you something. Rush duel is a superior format, in both gameplay and card design. Shoutout to cost and effect text being clearly separated in Rush duel. Also big, gorgeous card arts
@@tonyshen8543Most archetypes all play with the graveyard with very few exceptions. Only deck I can even think of that is still decent to these days that doesn't require banishment or graveyard is Monarchs. Even my Ninjas use the graveyard to an extent and lack of access to the grave can screw them.
Unless your tearlament or lightsworn or the like, it shouldn’t kill your deck. I’ve played dinomorphia under my opponents shifter and won, you just gotta play slower and have more back row/non graveyard stuff.
this whole collabs are so crazy, as a mtg only player i now watch cimoo and rerran and all these other guys xD i mean not in gameplay videos i still think ur game is crazy but in other videos i like to watch as you guys are all so entertaining :) these colabs seem to be a big success for all parties
And it should be something completely off the rails like full power full power tearlament (with millers and shufflers) vs full power snake eyes (i.e. how they were at their strongest). And then show them some dumb FTK's (both deck out and burn).
"If you give them something and then take it away, they are so much angrier than if they never had it in the first place." is the truest thing I've ever heard.
when he was trying to cook with the maxx c by handlooping it i was like "this guy's a pervert!" and i say this with the chance that we meet across a dueling table at a convention like while you're there for magic who's to say you didn't build a yugioh deck that you have in your gaming bag
One thing you didn't mention about Final Countdown is that last I checked, it does NOT stay on the field. Meaning that if you manage to activate that time bomb, NOTHING can disable it.
@@hannessteffenhagen61honestly I did. I use Swords of Revealing Light as my example of non-continuous spell cards that stay on the field until the full effect is completed.
Sword definitely didn't say that when it was released. Super confusing since it's the only card that does that and even negating it it stays on the field.
I'm here just because CGB because holy shit, this guy always makes the best questions HAHAHAHAHHAHA He is totally stressed by seeing the cards and going like, "can I do that?" "that is free???" Love it HAHAHAHA
I love how cgb just nailed in the head the only possible reason for shifter to not be banned and the reason people want it to be banned just by reading the card 🤣 edit: man literally figured out that Mystic Mine existed from reading Final Countdown wtf
I knew a unitless control player. He said they're all sociopaths. They don't play to win, they play to make their opponent suffer as much as possible. For them, the game isn't about two-sided fun.
@@HighLanderPonyYT nah as a hardcore control player myself, the central idea of every control player is "fun is a zero sum game and I plan on having all of it". You can really feel the zero-sum game part when you feel that childlike glee at locking your opponent out of the game. There's just that rush of happiness and enjoyment when you have stripped your opponent bare of all their options and left them without any way to continue.
Nah, he's _lawful_ evil. He wants the letter of the law to say that you're suffering at his expense. The more miserable and helpless you are, the better his day is going.
Alex didn’t do the best job explaining the impact of Shifter on the game. He focused in on one of the few defensible use-cases for the card rather than describing the general context, which is that GY play is an integral part of most Yugioh decks, and 70% of games where Shifter resolves are non-games. Even decks that aren’t GY-heavy often have singular points of their game loop that makes Shifter a blowout.
I imagine that part of it is that cimo has had no interactions other than banlist reactions to the main competitive format since tear format ended. So he might not be the best equipped for explaining the issue.
Even some shifter decks really don't want shifter resolved on them. VS as an example can also just drop Shifter on their own turn after going Razen add -> summon Rock -> Rock add back Razen to re-empty the graveyard. The whole idea of some decks playing Shifter is that opponent might just simply pass turn and if you aren't straight up on Kashtira or Floo you can set up a mediocre board under your own floodgate or still straight up go for an OTK through your own Shifter.
For the Wind Up Hunter bit where an archetype is relevant to part of the effect, an easy way for a Magic player to get a frame of reference is to say that archetypes are hyper specific tribal categories found in Yugioh card names. Like if Wind Up Hunter was a Magic creature, it would say "sacrifice a Construct Gnome Toy creature..." and every Wind Up is a Construct Gnome Toy creature. (You could also say its like the Planeswalker subtypes. Like some goofy mf playing a Sorin deck that runs every Sorin Planeswalker.) Another random example would be like "Snake-Eyes" being equivalent to "Elemental Plant Horror Eye creatures". Of course this opens up some random ole thing being part of the "Snake-Eye" tribe, but Yugioh players can look at every trap "Hole" card and see the unintended consequences to that like a certain hotrod themed mech archetype having access to one of their cards through an unrelated archetype that interacts with trap "Hole" cards.
I'm a bit surprised CGB didn't recognize the potential danger given that the format of the video gives away that it's a toxic card. The combination of being on a creature (which allows for graveyard recursion), combined with getting a durable benefit as good as discard for sacrificing (tributing) another chosen creature on-demand just reeks of degenerate Aristocrats loop shenanigans in Magic.
Love seeing the CGB collabs! Didn’t find much magic content that I liked while I was playing but CGB is the best. Always had some super interesting and unique decks. Was always a fun watch.
The problem is it came out of nowhere. You play against a normal deck and think "Okay I need to side deck in these cards to counter that deck" and suddenly game two you get hit with a Mystic Mine and you lose the set
Also a lot of backrow hate spells are limited, banned or just bad, and are only circumstantially useful. MST is near unplayable because its only a 1 for 1, and only useful if your opponent has a continuous spelltrap, field spell, or a trap they can't chain, and that doesn't happen as much as you would want. Bigger removals like Harpies Feather Duster or Heavy Storm are banned or at 1, and so unreliable, and one again useless vs no backrown. Most removal nowadays is often just bonus effects on monsters who also replace themselves with a new card that also does a bunch of other shit too, but Mystic Mine specifically stops monster effects, so those don't work anymore.
I played Draco while it was legal, so all I had to do was tribute my spells to destroy it. Aside from that I always have played removal in the main deck because I can't be bothered to look at everyone else's lists. Just deck build smartly not net deck and call it a day.
@@MrShukaku1991twin twisters, cosmic cyclone, galaxy cyclone, feather storm duster, and lightning vortex were all at three while mine was legal. They were not limited.
"Yugioh is a game where everything is free, which means your cards are your resources... which is why Pot of Greed is banned... but Maxx C is completely fine even though it can draw you way more than 2 cards" -- CGB logic
I think the thing worth mentioning with Dimension Shifter is that Yugioh is not like Magic where there’s specific “graveyard decks” to counter. Without exaggeration, at least 80% of decks want graveyard access, and at least 50% completely rely on it. Shifter isn’t a card that hoses certain meta decks, it’s a card that hoses most decks in existence. That’s why the card is considered such a problem, the few decks that can play it just get to win free games in most matchups sometimes
@@blueishgreen76 You just don't open it in the games you lose, doesn't make it any less miserable to play against For context, other "banish all cards that go to the gy" effects are just as hated and some are even banned
@@blueishgreen76 yes, the Shifter decks don't tend to get AS MANY top 32s or whatever, but they also drag a lot of players down with them. Imagine missing Day 2 at a tournament ONLY because you played more Shifter decks THAT OPENED SHIFTER than other people and won all your rounds against "real" decks. The issue with Shifter is the card is straight up not able to be interacted with besides a single card at one copy (Called by the Grave) so if the opponent draws it you instantly get a non-game where you can't even prepare for it.
because pot of greed is just 100% free value no matter what, Maxx C is conditional - your opponent has to special summon twice in a turn to get pot of greed amounts of value. If you don't understand how prevalent special summoning is, you might think there will be turns or decks where you get 1 or 0 cards of value out of Maxx C. And if you don't understand the speed of the game, you won't understand how likely it is that refusing to special summon and passing just means you lose the game instantly. Remember that (by the way YGO counts turns), MtG is usually a 8-12 turn game - going down a card to make your opponent play a land and pass is strong, but not game-ending, especially if they have cards that let them utilize those untapped lands on *your* next turn instead, then they're not really losing any value at all.
@@KonetPrimeYeah, cards like Shifter or Maxx C look fine if you assume passing the turn means you simply don't get to use your mana for that turn (or have to use it instant speed once their effects end) and have to maybe take some damage next turn. But if every deck apart from very few is essentially a combo deck that puts down an enchantment that gives every creature haste and can then easily summon 20 power worth of creatures and/or summon Emrakul with multiple counterspell backup, suddenly passing the turn doesn't seem as good.
I’d love for cimo to show cgb a championship match, and slow it down and explain it for him so he can really see how fast Yu-Gi-Oh! Is.. would be interesting to see his reaction
What CGB doesn't Understand about Dimensional Shifter, and the difference between it and cards like Leyline of the Void, is the fact that you can actually DESTROY Leyline of the Void. You can't deal with Shifter. Unless you can negate it immediately, you can't interact with it later.
as a person who doesn't play ygo and knows almost nothing about it this video is very entertaining bc i also have no idea which cards are banned or even good lmao
As a Magic player, my first thought about yu gi oh was "why don't they print more floodgates, so the game doesn't end in turn 2 ?" Then I understood that people thinking like me could just play Magic. Now I see Wizard of the Coast trying to turn our game into Yu gi oh. Cards turn into unreadable novels. We get every flavor of "play stuff for free". Companion were basically extra deck boss monsters. I wish you Konami keeps your game in the healthiest version of itself.
because people like to play their cards, fundamentally shutting down a whole mechanic or aspect of a game is not fun nor is it even considered fair either and in most cases the deck playing the floodgates is typically build to get aorund it if not be less impeded by it the main issue with a lot of floodgates in yugioh is that its way too easy to use, once you draw it all you have to do is just flip it on the opponent and then watch them squirm, on the other hand if the floodgate is made up of multiple pieces instead it ends up still being viewed negatively but much more receptive such as the icejade lock where people complaint when it was first revealed but then no one really thinks anything of it afterward
@@YukiFubuki. this is why some people had mellowed towards Tear format. Yes it's super centralized, but the games were interactive and strategic. You play your cards and they play theirs, you two crossed the streams somewhere, a ladybug got sent to the GY and you won on time
@@YukiFubuki.People like to play their cards, and people like to make their opponents *not* play their cards. That's the entire point of trading cards games. The real problem in yugioh is that players have absolutely no problem with their opponent doing these things to them if it's a monster doing it, but the moment the card turns magenta or teal then suddenly they freak out.
For CGB missing on the discard thing: The one thing that he might be missing with Robin Goblin, is that your monsters have to attack over your opponents monster. In mtg, we have tokens to get around your monsters, flyers, and if they have a 10/10, I can block with my 1/1 all day. Yugioh you have to attack the big boy, and the interaction on top makes robbing goblin never have the lines connect
Cimo living in the alternate reality where Wind-Up Hunter actually got permanently banned and was not able to frame Zenmaity for his crimes. It was banned in only one format in 2014 and then came back to 3 in the TCG.
I understand the progression cimo's going for in presenting CGB cards in an increasing order of complexity but I think it would be nice to show one or 2 combos every episode to give a sense of how it all works. No need to go for a modern deck but showing a combo on DB could go a long way. If only for cards like wind-up hunter to actually show the loop.
There is very few ways to interact with Dimension Shifter and that is why the card is beyond hated. You can't really try to deckbuild around it either bc everyone uses the GY, it just happens that some deck get less screwed over than most deckss by shifter and a few exceptions even thrive with it.
With Final Countdown there is a tonne of "discard a card, draw a card" in Yugioh, specifically "discard a spell, draw a card" is printed on some great enablers, and those enablers are typically best in spell/trap stunt decks. I had a Dark Magician deck and a Vampire Genesis deck that used 9x3 of "set one" cards, because I also had 9x3 of cards that cycled anything I didn't need from my hand. Practically speaking, even in old Yugioh the type of decks that would want to run that card have no downside to running 3x. There are ways to work around having multiple copies of a thing you only need one of that are just good - generally powerful.
CGB sitting here going “how can i bounce Maxxx C back to my hand from the graveyard every turn so i can be a draw problem.” As Cimoooo gets visibly concerned at the thought of said plan.
Whoops! Looks like Wind-Up Hunter is banned in the OCG, not the TCG. My bad! 🤣
Np! Don't worry if we poke you for the little mistakes
It was also a super rare not common
I legit stopped your video and went to check banlist again cause Carrier was banned haha
if we keep acting like it is maybe they will actually finally ban hunter and brick back zenmaity
@@flickybicky9397 zenmaity should be able to go to 1
"Maybe special summons are more common than their name impies" is comedy gold and a perfect review of YGO.
They should rename it to "Extra Summon", it would be more accurate
I aways thought it implied that it needed a “special” requirement to be summoned 😅
They should flip the names with each other. Special summons are normal summons, and once per turn you get a free summon, therefore it's "special"
Trap Hole gets banned instantly.
It should be called summon. That’s what it is you are just summoning a monster.
"Just tear it into little pieces, then it can't come back" He says, jokingly, playing the game that actually has a card that tells you to rip it apart for its effect.
Chaos Confetti lmao
That’s a very nice board state you have there, be a shame if the Chaos Orb hovering above it suddenly gets shredded.
i pay 1 and tap Chaos Orb, ggNOre.
@@MansMan42069 Chaos doesn't require that, but Blacker Lotus card did have it as an activating condition.
Chaos Confetti literally says "tear Chaos Confetti into pieces".
Even funnier is that allegedly that card "Chaos Confetti" is based on a player literally shredding the card "Chaos Orb" to pieces at an event to maximize it's effect.
"Wait, can I punch my opponent in the face and just take his cards?" "Does the card say you can't?"
😅🤭
That one made me laugh. I love how kinda "Does it say, it can't?" or "Does it say, you can't?" have become Cimoooooooo's catch phrases at this point.
@@chanceneck8072 "I don't see a once per turn. Do you?" 😂😂😂
Reading the card explains the card ^^
Of course you can this is yu gi oh you can even steal your opponents soul, Does the card say you can't? :)
"Wait, can I ask to see my opponent's cards and throw them into the ocean?" "Does the card say you can't?"
Cimo just dying inside as CGB describes a world where you Max C your opponent over and over again is absolute gold.
CGB describing playing against beetroopers.
@@tiggerbane4325Give me bee troopers over snake eye any day of the week lmao
@@sammydray5919duh. Beetrooper doesn't end on interaction. Just keep searching C and hope it can win you the game.
1:06:22 peak moment
Madolches in Master Duel can do that due to the fact Chateau doesnt specify what kind of monsters can be returned to hand instead of deck by a Madolche effect. The green Vernuslyph can even Foolish Maxx C into the grave.
"You guys are degenerates!"
That's basically every ygo player, so yes, welcome.
"I ruined my opponents day and kept them from enjoying the game, you think that's not what this game is about now mortal..." Basically the yugioh community to every other TCG player that isn't yugioh.
Yeah so anyways I activate skill drain. Response?
The difference is that in MtG, if you hate your opponent and wish to cause them misery you play control decks with lots of blue cards and it takes FOREVER for them to lose. In YGO, you just win before the opponent gets to play a card.
@@lostalone9320 ever heard of fossil dyna
from someone that's been in both communities, also describes a lot of magic players too, to be honest.
"Look at your zero-skill card beating my Tier 0 netdeck" LMAO! How does he already know Yu-Gi-Oh so well?
I love how CGB accidentally described Mystic Mine when talking about how Final Countdown could potentially see play in a problematic deck if the right cards existed.
His intuitions are really good, even on some of the wrong guesses he had a good understanding of what kind of meta these cards would matter in
When does he do this? Watched the entire final countdown part
When does he do this? Watched the entire final countdown part
@@EarthSpirit.easyzdota"Maybe there was a deck for it ... when something was too good. ... Some kind of a, 'nothing can attack, ever' was too good. Maybe this got some play. But this wouldn't be the card you ban. You would ban the card that made this card good."
While they were never the best thing one could do, Mystic Mine made Final Countdown playable for a while because Mine, between not allowing attacks and also preventing monsters from removing it, was some kind of a 'nothing can attack, ever' card. It was overtuned, it was the problem (to such an extent that it turned out Final Countdown is not necessary), and it was the card of the two that eventually got banned.
Most of the answers he gets wrong is purely due to lack of knowledge of how the meta works now and how the meta was at a time a card got banned while also being misled a lot by Cimoo. I get that you can’t give hints but it just feels odd not just explaining a little more for basic understanding for a pure educated guess
In Magic: The Gathering, the players are gods playing chess against each other with their individual mortal armies.
In Yu-Gi-Oh!, the players are gods in a drunken bar fight frantically hurling celestial bodies and cosmic forces at each other until one of them falls into the family guy pose.
Yugioh is anime, so it should be the Yamcha pose, otherwise this is absolutely correct.
And yet yugioh is the best tcg
@@davidtowers1863 You might need to get some additional education.
@@FaultyWirestv Wow. That's pathetic. I am actually embarrassed for you.
To attack my academic status for believing the more fun and interesting game is better. Without mustering a single defence of MTG, even though I haven't attacked it's quality and have simply stated Yugioh is a better game.
Yugioh is unfortunately without comparison. Yes the metagame is insular and annoying, but a games top level alone is not indicative of quality. The game simply has more options than any other, the best resource system, the greatest playstyle variety and the most interactive boardstates. Not to mention some of the best cartoons of a generation.
So if you want to argue with insults, go for it. But it sure doesn't make MTG look better
@davidtowers1863 I don't play mtg. You made a lot of assumptions. Yugioh just sucks a lot of ass and has immense meta game problems they'll never solve until they get a standard rotation. The only people who play it are children and people who refuse to grow up and play a better card game in favor of garbage mechanics and a neverending growing card pool that ensures gameplay is stale as long as possible.
Based purely on his analysis of the last card, I believe CGB has exactly the correct amount of reading comprehension needed to pickup the game of Yu-Gi-Oh! and become a champion player.
More than hour video got out 25 min ago, how did you reach the last card ? Likes bait?
Patreon 24 hrs early
@@MegaVLAD34 Maybe member or patreon? Early vid access? Just skipping the intro, skipping to cards, idk
he refuses to read long cards in mtg so xD i doubt it xD
@@MegaVLAD34 how can you not see his comment is 11 hours old xD
It's really funny that CGB said "MAYBE [Final Countdown] saw a period of success when the meta shaped in just the right way for this card to be good, like there's a card that freezes your opponent's monsters indefinitely, MAYBE it'd be good then, but even then you ban that OTHER card, not this one" cuz that's exactly what happened when Mine Burn was a thing 😭
SPOILERS FOR THE VIDEO
----
Okay so the Maxx C thing triggered me so I'm gonna explain why it's so absurd in YGO for any curious MTG players. So Pot of Greed just draws two cards, that's all it does, and that card is banned. Upstart Goblin only draws one card AND gives the opponent 1000 LP, and that card was limited to one copy for most of its lifespan. If you respond to an effect the opponent is using that special summons a monster with a Maxx C, you have already gotten the value of an Upstart Goblin. If they special summon one more time, you activated Pot of Greed. Any more than that and you have obtained more card draw than a Pot of Greed. And almost every YGO deck in the game can **easily** special summon ten or twelve times in a turn before they manage to put an actual threat on the board.
@@nightwish7074 I think it might be from trying to mentally compare it to something like mystic remora, which draws a card on non creature spells effectively, then it keeps getting more expensive each turn you keep it in play. Which isnt really played in single player formats as its to easy to play around to be worth it. Meanwhile its a multiplayer all star becuase forcing 3 players to either only playing creatures or falling behind is great. But even a remora that drew from opponents creatures would be pretty oppressive, so yeah i do have a hard time to see it being bad if translated to magic.
@@nightwish7074 yeah but the guy figured most decks would only special summon once or twice a turn. which for a long time in yugioh was the case, and maxx c was just an ok/fair card
@@herebedragon That's how it was for the first couple of years after Maxx "C" was released honestly, but modern YGO is way too fast for Maxx "C" to be ethical
@@nightwish7074 This is why I still question Pot of Greed being banned when Maxx C isn’t.
Seriously. Pot of Greed isn’t even good anymore.
"Dimension Shifter! Must have been pretty cool when this showed up in the Anime!" BRO, I spit out my drink, I can't, I just cant :D
Wishful thinking 😂🤣😭
I'm still waiting for them to adapt something like OCG Adventures or whatever it's called, the manga where they're just normal kids living in a world exactly like ours, except they have duel disk holograms. The characters play modern decks and everything. It's not the most gripping entertainment every, but it would give a chance for modern cards to actually show up.
Can someone explain why that is so funny? 😅 As someone missing context, I'm a bit confused.
@@sleepysera It's explained in the video: It didn't show up.
@@sleepysera most staples don't show up in the anime this card specifically was printed after the anime stopped making master rule yugioh the anime
The thing is, CGB's evaluation of Maxx "C" "maybe there are some matchups where this is good but maybe there are some matchups where you only draw 1 or 2 cards" is 100% spot on... for 2013 when this card came out
Maxx "C" only became broken as the game transitioned from "back and forth grind game" to "everyone has an explosive turn 1 and either wins or loses on turn 2"
Yeah, I didn't think it was particularly fair to call CGB wrong on this one, because he described the exact reasons to use Maxx "C", and openly admitted that it would be insane if it got dropped against a deck that spammed a lot of special summons. However, he also clearly had NO clue how many SS can happen in a single turn, based on his reaction to "30 cards". He was probably thinking along the lines of the similar cards in MTG, where you might go +1~3 on a good turn. There's no way he could've anticipated the sheer volume of Special Summons that are done in YGO these days, let alone that certain decks could feasibly deck the opponent out on the effect.
Most good decks in modern YGO don't go THAT far anymore, thats Blackwing or Raidraptor territory, or brews that can just spin their wheels to punish Maxx C, but like, most of the good decks, which will it must be admitted, still do quite a few, are actually fairly grindy nowadays, the scales have shifted and endurance is really valuable in a deck now because big Fuck You Lose boards aren't unnavigable, and oft get disrupted from their full potential
Blowout moves still matter, but they can be defended against in turn
Maxx C still often slams out huge gains
Hell, a lower tier but still meta deck that Maxx C DOES often go low against is Labrynth, many times you'll get 1, if you don't whiff entirely launching it in draw, and I think the most I've given was 4(Welcome Lab, Big Welcome Lab, Lablab, Lady, Arianna/Arianne, Arias, and Torbie are your sources, but you don't do ExDeck comboing off it much of the time, and a lot of that action is on your opponent's turn)
@@ILikePi31415926535 though to put that in context, what this is really saying is "maybe there are some matchups where it draws half your deck, but maybe there are some matchups where it's only Pot of Greed..."
Yeah, YuGiOh hasn't exactly been strategic for years, and it's only gotten worse. Just see whos autodeck does it's thing first.
It's always problematic, though. If the opponent only does one special summon, you've thinned your deck one card for effectively free. If they do two, you got a Pot of Greed.
at some point we need a "and this is free?" compilation
and also "does it say that you can't?"
I want a 'Does it say you can't?' one first.
They need to co-create shirts and hats that say both phrases.
It let me do this? 😂
Jajajajajaja
In the (hopefully distant) future…
Cimo: “CGB, you know how you told me to call you if something happened. Well, it finally happened…”
CGB: *opens his secret vault to break out 3 max rarity copies of Mystic Mine while maniacally cackling to himself*
In the anime people were sent to the shadow realm. CGB will send his opponents to the mines!
Just because there are comments in the community post about running this video format to the ground, please do. When you've reached the earth's core, please continue until you've exited through the other side of the planet, and run it even further until you've hit the escape velocity and become the second moon. Call me sad or pathetic all you want, this has been the highlight of my day for the last few weeks anytime there's a collab video between Cimo, CGB, or Rarran
Don't forget LSV, Who's honestly the best one after CGB
@@BrandedRamses ah of course. Honestly I don't follow LSV as closely as the others but he's been a delight every time he's made an appearance
Personally I enjoy the video format but do wish that Cimo would have someone else familiar with the game do a quick double check to avoid stuff like the wind-up hunter mistake as well as doing an extra pass of the videos to avoid mistakes like what happened with the mbt anime trivia.
Vouch
Cimo’s the only person who does this format well. Farfa’s also cool but not as much as Cimo.
Stevie Blunder’s was the worst honestly because he straight up calls good cards bad with dumbest reasoning.
Why am I not surprised that a blue player LOVED mystic mine?, it's their dream made cardboard
Lol CGB would wet his pants if a card like that came to MTG
@@blackflame91 Well, MTG already has many cards that do similar effects tbh, but the thing is, they cost mana, and that's what makes a huge difference
@@blackflame91 Look up a deck called Lantern Control in MTG. Essentially uses lock pieces like Ensnaring Bridge, and discards your opponents hand until both players are low on resources. Then uses Lantern of Insight to view the card they will draw, with effects that mill the top card of the deck. You can get the game-state to a point where your opponent will just not be able to draw any relevant cards. Granted, this deck has a lot of moving parts. So while it's seen some competitive play, artifact destruction is usually in most deck sideboards, so it's easy enough to disrupt and ensure the "lock" doesn't happen regularly.
You mean Mystic mine IS FREE?!?
@@cbalinefourcba4615do you see a cost?
I feel like the real problem that people in other card games have evaluating cards that essentially skip someone's turn is that they simply do not appreciate *just* how aggressive decks in Yugioh are, *just* how easy it is for your opponent to immediately put game on board. As such, they hear "don't do your thing this turn" and they think, "Fine, I'll probably just do it next turn." They simply don't know that you getting that, 99% of the time, you don't get a next turn.
I play hearthstone clones, and I've had to show coplayers some master duel to tell them how devsstating it is to leave me with a board for 2 turns in that game, because otherwise they just don't get it
A good way to think about YGO matches, at least in my mind, is like if a Magic match started with 8-10 lands in play. Taking an extra turn on turn 8 is basically guaranteed victory in Magic, so an extra turn in YGO is also basically the same as winning.
the Maxx C analysis is heartbreaking because it really is kind of impossible to truly understand how important special summoning is if you haven't played/watched the game. Like, sure, you can think about all of the special summoning you know about, especially the explanation of the wind-up deck, but it still probably won't click that a turn in Yu-Gi-Oh is often just like.
Special summon something to search for X, that you then special summon to search for Y, that you then special summon to activate some effect, then you use all those guys to special summon something from the extra deck, and so on and so forth.
It's so hard to put that together in a vacuum.
Special summoning in ygo is as special as searching for or drawing cards is in Pokemon.
@@talsen6495 I feel like even that doesn't fully get across how core it is like... yeah you draw/search boatloads of cards in Pokemon, but once you factor in monster effects Special Summoning is just how you do so many of your game actions in Yu-Gi-Oh because Special Summoning a monster can do so many different things.
he knew about pot of greed. so no. even in a vacuum the cards insane. he was also shown the card after vanity's where it was explained special summoning was good. brain dead take
It's like if your opponent drew 2 every time you evolved and there were no good basics
@@MrZacdeath I disagree, since there are a few important things you need to know to evaluate if it is good or bad.
1. How common is SS? Do >50% decks use this mechanic and do these decks really use it consistently each game? If you don't get consistent value out of it and it sometimes is a dead card, then it is just a very good hate card that might be dead more often then not.
2. What I did not understand/forgot about SS is that you can react to it and draw at least the one card from it, so even if SS would be more situational for many decks it can at least easily replace itself.
I never played YGO myself and only watched a few of the collabs, so it can be really hard to judge these things, especially if you learn so many new things at once and never really see real gameplay.
Hunter wasn't banned in TCG, Cimo! It was banned in OCG! We had Zenmaity banned instead!
And pretty sure Wind-Up players, to this day, are screaming for the two to swap. Just ban Hunter and bring back Zenmaity.
@@vgmaster02Bring back the Party Boat!
I thought I was going nuts hearing him say Hunter is banned, lmao. Glad to see I remembered correctly
Wait really? Then why did Wind-Ups stay a tier 1 deck but stop playing Hunter after the ban list?
EDIT: Oh, Zenmaity got limited which prevented the Hunter loop, but still enabled the deck to make enough plays to be good. Honestly, based on the fact that it was the best deck even after limiting Zenmaity, and the fact that people also stopped playing Hunter because of it, they definitely made the right choice.
@@Sinzari I think the loop only took 2 cards out of the opp hand at that point but shock master was released as promo shortly after and it turned into a shocklock deck
The fact that CGB couldn't believe you could special summon 30 times per turn and that's one Maxx "C" isn't that good is amazing
One hasn’t seen any of the extra deck monsters. Gonna be interesting when that video pops up.
The fact he couldn't grasp the idea after being explained the Wind-Up stuff shocked me.
Also, if there were a Maxx "C" equivalent in Magic, it'd be played in basically every single deck, no question.
He knows draw 2 is banned, right? You dont have to draw 30 cards, if Maxx C draws you 3 it's amazing. No idea why he missed that
@@MrTomahawkerbecause the opponent could just not special summon anymore, making it a draw one card, and draw one for one card really isnt good.
@@R41-e9yyes and no.
There are quite a few cards in magic that draw you card when you or your opponent summon something, but they are kept in check by the fact they arent free.
I'm at Dimension Shifter and the disparity between CBG's reaction and Rarrans is so fun to see; but in a good way. CGB's staring and wracking his brains thinking of comparisons and situations; whereas Rarran takes basically 5 seconds and goes "This is one of the most terrifying things I've ever seen in my life"
Again: this is not hate; I love both the guys and the video they're in. It's just so amusing to me how much even just a little experience and understanding can radically warp a persons entire thought patterns.
Cgb is of the get good philosophy whereas rarran is of the this is annoying to me ban it philosophy
Rarran also has experience playing MD, while CGB is rawdogging his takes. It's especially apparent when he didn't realize how common of a mechanic special summoning is. I think the only special summoning mechanics Cimo had shown CGB are Cydra, Reborn, and the implications of Windup Rat's effect. Rarran has played Swordsoul which would get screwed by Shifter, and he's played against Maxx C. Context is truly king, as CGB immediately realized how badly he screwed up with his analysis on Maxx C
@@LjrobisonYeah, with the Maxx C analysis in particular a lot of CGB’s initial thoughts relied on actually getting another turn after it’s played. I don’t remember if Cimo has told him just how few turns a game lasts nowadays, given that everything up until this video has been from the first year or so of the game, but being told “You go, your opponent goes, and then maybe you get to go again and that’s as far as it usually gets” is a HUGE piece of context
They say trauma permanently alters your brain chemistry and I think it shows on Rarran's face.
He has told CGB before and CGB has made the comparison to vintage and legacy. So like he gets it. Vintage in MTG is about that fast (but crazy enough there are decks that only get to play the one turn, and still win even tho the other guy got two turns.)@@PinkFrappe
Can't believe CGB basically just said " why do you not have an answer to mystic mine by now?" 😭
"Just draw the out!"
Mf just play De-Spell!! 💀💀
And he's completely right about that. It's wild that Yugioh players refused to put answers to one of the most played cards in the game into their deck.
@xXSamir44Xx because the outs are complete bricks. It's a massive gambit ESPECIALLY since you would have to side cosmic in going first where 95% of the time the ONLY target would be the Mine that may or may not even be sided in against you.
One important difference from MTG to YuGiOh I think is that in Magic being unable to draw/fetch an answer that you put in your deck on purpose is a statistical anomaly in competitive Bo3 formats ESPECIALLY if you're a blue player like CGB. You are on average seeing at least 1/2 of your deck by drawing and fetching as a blue player in Magic.
"I need to play my tier 0 net deck and these skilless dimension shifters won't let me" >:'(
Bro never played Yugioh
I love the juxaposition of two reactions.
Rarran: This card seems fair and not toxic :)
CGB: THIS CARD SEEMS TOXIC I LOVE IT
Oh, that last one hurt, but to be fair, he's still missing context, as for when it was release that analysis would be on par with competitive players.
The thing is, he has absolutely no comprehension of what a first turn in Yu-Gi-Oh is. In magic the first turn is usually "play a land, play a 1 drop, pass". There are definitely some combo shenanigans you can pull off, but usually it only really takes form after a bit of setup. Even the newest ban in mtg modern, nabu, winged wisdom, doesn't really pop off until at least the third turn, and that card is more than capable of putting your entire deck on the battlefield.
But yugioh got so insane with its combos that hand traps start replacing regular traps just because they are faster. Nibiru, the Primal Being has to be such a insane card to see for any magic player.
@arkokroeger9799 I think the best comparison I've heard is comparing it to dog years. "1 yugioh turn is equal to 3 mtg turns".
The thing is he did have the context clues as he was provided with wind-up hunter. He would know that players start with 5 cards in hand, that wind-up hunter can only be used once while on the field, and it had to be brought back with rat. Even if he assumed the same rat could summon hunters infinitely, that would still be 10 special summons including the monsters that needed to be tributed.
myth. people knew this card was good back then. look at topping decks from the time.
@@AlphaSquadZero That does give the clue that it is very abusable in some decks, yes, but does not say how many decks really lean on the special summon mechanic. If only 20% of decks use SS a lot, then it is a dead card very often, so that is a context he and also myself did not have. Especially when learning 10 new mechanics of a game you never played yourself, it is hard to judge what things are more common and which are more rare.
I think my favourite part of this, and videos like this, is the inevitable exchange of:
"Okay... so this seems pretty simple, I can think of a lot of ways that this wouldn't work out, very situational... yeah, I guess it's only okay?"
"This is one of the most powerful cards in the game, actually."
as a primarily magic player, the above was my first reaction to Simultaneous Equations Cannon
@@Naozymandiasyour reaction would be simultaneous with yugioh players when it was first revealed
@@YukiFubuki. I saw a lot of Yugioh players going crazy for how good it was when it was revealed ! maybe that's my bubble tho
@@Naozymandias i mean yeah the effect is actually good, fulfilling the activation requirements however…
like im aware mtg has a failed to find rule but in yugioh you can never even activate a card if you preemptively know you cannot resolve its effects so actually being able to activate it is an achievement itself
@@YukiFubuki. see that's what I thought too but a bunch of yugioh players in twitter were like "it's so easy to activate" and I'm just like ????
You really need to show him an actual combo so he understands how Yugioh tends to work when evaluating these cards.
Just without explaining too much show some synchro combo that summons a Quasar, a Blazar and something else, i feel like it would make it more interesting.
He doesn't need to, because he told him in one of CGB's videos that modern Yu-Gi-Oh plays the same way as a deck CGB showed its playmaker for evaluation (and unsurprising Cimooooo guess how busted it is)
@@kechitiabderrahmane6357 you can say that but CGB asked Cimo if he was trolling when he said Maxx "C" can draw 30 cards. Maybe 30 is an outlier but it's pretty easy to do at least 20 SS in one turn for 50% of decks
Yeah the video clearly shows that CGB sees the game the way it was played on casual level at 2005 ("Blue Eyes wanna hit face"). He wasn't aware that the Graveyard is a second resource, you can special summon endless or about how important the hand is. I think without all that knowledge you can't rate any of this cards because most of these cards are only good in the very specific context of modern Yugioh. 20 years ago most of these cards would have been garbage. He still thought well about most of this cards for the context he had.
If Cimooo gave him more context on how the current game actually works, he would have probably had better chances to understand how these cards work and their toxicity.
@@Tollknoll Well, the game is slowly being revealed to CGB, generally starting with old cards, and going forward.
@Tollknoll yeah my feeling is that CGB is thinking of YGO as a normal fair-ish card game. He jokes about it, but I don't think he fully understands the scale of degeneracy
1:14:07 The face of a man who finally understands what type of a game YuGiOh is.
Another point regarding shifter is it doesn't ONLY shut down the best decks. Almost every rogue deck also needs the GY and they often don't have as many options against shifter as the tier 1 decks do, so they end up getting hurt even more than the meta decks.
Sounds like quality game design tbh 🤣
@@lostalone9320Konami's game design basically boils down to "Okay how can we print a single busted chase card so everyone has to buy the new set"
shifter is fair, GY is busted
why? yes, I am a floo player
@@azjzkkonzkzkI play graveyard dependent decks and I still find Shifter to be fair in the sense I understand it's meant to fuck with the top decks of the meta. Mine just caught strays.
@@RazielTheUnborn truly the hardened mentality of a seasoned Yugioh player. "Just draw your outs" is a mantra
Magic has a very similar deck to this Skill Drain Aggro deck, called StifleNought. Phyrexian Dreadnought is a 12/12 creature for only 1 mana, but when it enters play it requires you to sacrifice 12 power worth of creatures. With a card like Dress Down as shown in the video, or the titular card Stifle, you can negate this effect and have a massive creature that costs only 1 mana.
That's hilarious! That's exactly how Skill Drain beatdown worked. Now imagine Phyrexian Dreadnought still having haste somehow and you cna really get a fele for the full power of Skill Drain Beatdown.
Another common card that was run in that deck was called Goblin Attack Force. This was a very large creature you could normal summon, but when it attacked it would "tap" itself and couldn't untap until the end of your next turn. It also had 0 defense, so literally the weeniest of white weenies could kill it.
@@NovusIgnis still Phyrexian Dreadnought is still bigger than any bungus we could run in a SD beatdown deck back in the day, at 12/12 that's the equivalent of a lvl 4 monster having the statline of Five Headed Dragon lol
@@therranolleo468 Oh I'm aware. I'm a fan of Dreadnought, just never thought to play it with Stifle. That's a hilarious way to use it. I haven't actively played magic in ages but I always jump back in for a pre-release if I like the card art. Got me some of those Phyrexian Oil slicks from the All Will Be One set the last time I jumped in.
You've honestly struck gold with CGB and this series, his CG knowledge is so good for this kind of video, good job Cimo 🙌
While this video is mainly about his BLUE knowledge lol
an average deck in modern yugioh could do something like "I play a spell card to special summon this monster from my deck. It has an effect to summon another monster from my deck, and this monster in my hand has an effect that lets me special summon it when I have that monster on the field. I send two of these monsters to the graveyard to special summon a monster from my extra deck, which has the effect of special summoning a monster from my graveyard. I bring back the monster I just sent there and activate its effect again, letting me special summon another monster from my deck..." and that can just continue near-indefinitely sometimes
I love how his reaction to Mystic Mine being banned is "Skill issue". That's an appropriate Magic player reaction.
The moment I saw Mystic Mine I knew whatever cgb said it was going to be hilarous lol
"Maybe special summons are not as uncommon as their name would suggest." This is why TheOneJame always tells his guests that normal summons aren't that normal and there's nothing special about special summons!
"Is it possible to play the game without special summoning?" It only just occurred to me that - in terms of monsters - one could think of normal summoning as similar to playing a land, and special summoning as actually spending mana to cast spells.
This is a solid take. Get the one land per turn, provides base resources for follow-on game actions for the turn.
Thats a good analysis of the dynamic, yeah, Special Summons are special because they have bespoke clauses and conditions, not due to their quantity
As for "Without special summoning", thats Floo, which is also Extremely Green/Blue energy
Honestly I just thought they were special because you can't do that summon unless a card effect or rule says so aka no matter how small a requirement has to be fulfilled whereas for a normal summon you can just put the card down.
Normal summons can have only restrictions (once per turn, tribute for level 5 or higher etc) while special summons usually have both conditions/requirements and restrictions....
Maybe I am wrong but that's how I always saw it.
@@sammydray5919I mean, functionally your take is correct, but since so many cards or archetypes have text relating to special summoning these days, not counting methods that are more or less involved like XYZ summoning, Pendulum summoning, and Link summoning (which itself is basically contact fusion with extra bits added on and previously more of a pain to deal with), special summoning has become so normalized and common that decks that focus on normal summoning too much just end up falling by the wayside.
That's because "normal" and "special" don't refer to the degree of commonality of the summoning, but the manner in which the card is summoned. They are simply names for the classes of summoning.
As a modest Yugioh player and an avid MtG enthusiast, I hope this helps both CGB and Cimo understand each other's hobbies better. A Normal Summon in Yugioh is very similar to the one land you play each turn in Magic. A Special Summon is the equivalent of being able to put lands from your hand onto the battlefield. Assuming you can pay the cost, or you have met the requirements, you can Special Summon as many times as you want on a given turn, just like, as long as you have the lands in hand, you can put as many lands as you want onto the battlefield.
I hope this has been enlightening. Thank you come again.
15 seconds in and CGB is already being a total goober, gonna be a good video
Magic players sitting down to play: I will make you regret getting out of bed today
Yu-Gi-Oh players sitting down to play: I will show you the true meaning of regret
I'm kind of surprised CGB didnt pick up the loophole with Wind Up Hunter, given that there are several strong MtG cards with a similar "can only be activated once" clause on them, and we use flicker style effects (flicker is a card that exiles any creature and then returns them to play immediately) or bounce effects to get around that clause because it counts as a new creature.
The best part about "toxic cards" is they often exist to counter a toxic playstyle that has become too widespread. So it's only toxic toward the players who use toxic playstyles, which is the best way to be toxic.
The way his jaw dropped when he heard the word 30 in terms of special summoning was incredible. Gotta show him the extra deck, and cards that summon/search from deck. Show him synergy in action
CGB: "Just tear it into little pieces, then it can't come back"
Konami: "Introducing: Shape-memory alloy cards"
“Look at your zero skill card beating my tier 0 net deck” is the most YuGiOh sentence ever spoken
I so wish I could be a guy that's just silent in the call for 90% of these yugioh/mtg/hearthstone collabs; I know about all three games but not at a pro level, I would want to just add on facts here and there that would make them think even further. Like comparing anti spell fragrance making instants etc into inactive enchantments (thus vulnerable to removal when normally they wouldn't be).
his face when he realized how common special summon is lmao
For Vanity’s Emptiness, the best way to describe to a Magic player how significant special summoning is to YuGioh is to compare it to limiting mana to only being accessible from lands in vintage. In vintage almost everything is artifact mana, the ability to speed up the game via artifact mana in Vintage is about the same speed up power as special summons in Yugioh.
In that context, an analogous MtG card would be Null Rod played after you played and used a bunch of your own artifact mana.
Tbf Emptiness also just wasn't great during its initial run which to someone who doesn't play the game and thinks the game is "fair" is actually going to be close to reality.
It was very hard to protect the card or anything else on the board back in like early 2010s without losing SOMETHING. MST 2 for 1ed pretty much any time you drew it against Emptiness since there were barely any ways to protect your cards efficiently via monster effects or traps since most ways to protect it would end up with something in the GY (let's pretend Judgment was legal as that wouldn't save you since the Judgment going to the GY would also pop it).
The issue started showing up when you could almost guarantee emptiness stayed around a turn, activate any spell on your turn to turn it off. and then OTK.
For the Dimension Shifter part, rather than having some of the decks using the graveyard and it being good in metas where those decks are good, almost every single deck utilizes the graveyard and so it’s used specifically in decks that don’t use the graveyard (which again, is a very small minority of decks)
Sounds like card design is the problem not shifter. Frankly as much as I love graveyard decks its deserved
@@cuttlefish6839 oh definitely. The fact that Yugioh have something called Problem Solving Card Text should tell you something. Rush duel is a superior format, in both gameplay and card design. Shoutout to cost and effect text being clearly separated in Rush duel. Also big, gorgeous card arts
sounds like a you problem not finding way to play without gy
@@tonyshen8543Most archetypes all play with the graveyard with very few exceptions. Only deck I can even think of that is still decent to these days that doesn't require banishment or graveyard is Monarchs.
Even my Ninjas use the graveyard to an extent and lack of access to the grave can screw them.
Unless your tearlament or lightsworn or the like, it shouldn’t kill your deck. I’ve played dinomorphia under my opponents shifter and won, you just gotta play slower and have more back row/non graveyard stuff.
As a returning yugioh player who hates OTK, nothing brings me more happiness than breaking a 10 minute combo with one little card
this whole collabs are so crazy, as a mtg only player i now watch cimoo and rerran and all these other guys xD i mean not in gameplay videos i still think ur game is crazy but in other videos i like to watch as you guys are all so entertaining :)
these colabs seem to be a big success for all parties
"Does it say you can't?" Is basically the summary of this entire series with other content creators.
CBG: why would you ever waste a slot in your deck for Maxx "C"?
CBG later: you can special summon how many times a turn!
I feel like at some point, we need to show our guests at least one duel to let them understand what they're dealing with.
And it should be something completely off the rails like full power full power tearlament (with millers and shufflers) vs full power snake eyes (i.e. how they were at their strongest).
And then show them some dumb FTK's (both deck out and burn).
"If you give them something and then take it away, they are so much angrier than if they never had it in the first place." is the truest thing I've ever heard.
when he was trying to cook with the maxx c by handlooping it i was like "this guy's a pervert!" and i say this with the chance that we meet across a dueling table at a convention like while you're there for magic who's to say you didn't build a yugioh deck that you have in your gaming bag
If I wrote the text of Final Countdown, additional copies would have no LP cost and just increase the turn count by one.
I loved yugioh as a kid, and while I don't play any tcg's I love these videos! Please keep it up!
Same
“You dont want to play by the rules you want to make your own rules” spoken like a quintessential control player.
One thing you didn't mention about Final Countdown is that last I checked, it does NOT stay on the field. Meaning that if you manage to activate that time bomb, NOTHING can disable it.
Yeah but I don't think anyone had the impression that it did or that you could
@@hannessteffenhagen61honestly I did. I use Swords of Revealing Light as my example of non-continuous spell cards that stay on the field until the full effect is completed.
But sword of revealing light literally states it remains on the field, and that the effect is only active while it is on the field...
@@earthadept
@@HaloNeInTheDark27 PSCT probably fixed that
Sword definitely didn't say that when it was released. Super confusing since it's the only card that does that and even negating it it stays on the field.
I just loved Cimo's expression when CGB was MURDERING Maxx "C" 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I'm here just because CGB because holy shit, this guy always makes the best questions HAHAHAHAHHAHA
He is totally stressed by seeing the cards and going like, "can I do that?" "that is free???"
Love it HAHAHAHA
I love how cgb just nailed in the head the only possible reason for shifter to not be banned and the reason people want it to be banned just by reading the card 🤣
edit: man literally figured out that Mystic Mine existed from reading Final Countdown wtf
"does It say tou can't?", the classic yu gi oh phrase.
not going straight from final countdown to last turn is such a missed opportunity
I think CGB's reaction to Mystic Mine says a lot about him as a person: that he's completely chaotic evil.
I knew a unitless control player. He said they're all sociopaths. They don't play to win, they play to make their opponent suffer as much as possible. For them, the game isn't about two-sided fun.
@@HighLanderPonyYT nah as a hardcore control player myself, the central idea of every control player is "fun is a zero sum game and I plan on having all of it".
You can really feel the zero-sum game part when you feel that childlike glee at locking your opponent out of the game. There's just that rush of happiness and enjoyment when you have stripped your opponent bare of all their options and left them without any way to continue.
@@triopsate3aye yo…kind of terrifying but at the same time…sounds like quite the evil villian Nirvana
Nah, he's _lawful_ evil. He wants the letter of the law to say that you're suffering at his expense. The more miserable and helpless you are, the better his day is going.
Because comboing for 5 minutes and locking the opponent out of the game that way is what "good" means, right?
Alex didn’t do the best job explaining the impact of Shifter on the game. He focused in on one of the few defensible use-cases for the card rather than describing the general context, which is that GY play is an integral part of most Yugioh decks, and 70% of games where Shifter resolves are non-games. Even decks that aren’t GY-heavy often have singular points of their game loop that makes Shifter a blowout.
I imagine that part of it is that cimo has had no interactions other than banlist reactions to the main competitive format since tear format ended. So he might not be the best equipped for explaining the issue.
Even some shifter decks really don't want shifter resolved on them. VS as an example can also just drop Shifter on their own turn after going Razen add -> summon Rock -> Rock add back Razen to re-empty the graveyard.
The whole idea of some decks playing Shifter is that opponent might just simply pass turn and if you aren't straight up on Kashtira or Floo you can set up a mediocre board under your own floodgate or still straight up go for an OTK through your own Shifter.
For the Wind Up Hunter bit where an archetype is relevant to part of the effect, an easy way for a Magic player to get a frame of reference is to say that archetypes are hyper specific tribal categories found in Yugioh card names. Like if Wind Up Hunter was a Magic creature, it would say "sacrifice a Construct Gnome Toy creature..." and every Wind Up is a Construct Gnome Toy creature. (You could also say its like the Planeswalker subtypes. Like some goofy mf playing a Sorin deck that runs every Sorin Planeswalker.)
Another random example would be like "Snake-Eyes" being equivalent to "Elemental Plant Horror Eye creatures".
Of course this opens up some random ole thing being part of the "Snake-Eye" tribe, but Yugioh players can look at every trap "Hole" card and see the unintended consequences to that like a certain hotrod themed mech archetype having access to one of their cards through an unrelated archetype that interacts with trap "Hole" cards.
Maybe we just need to tell them they're like Slivers?
@@SpecterVonBaren basically any tribal support, but each tribes are very narrow and synergistic with itself
I'm a bit surprised CGB didn't recognize the potential danger given that the format of the video gives away that it's a toxic card. The combination of being on a creature (which allows for graveyard recursion), combined with getting a durable benefit as good as discard for sacrificing (tributing) another chosen creature on-demand just reeks of degenerate Aristocrats loop shenanigans in Magic.
Unrelated but what is the biker themed mech archetype? I’m blinking on what archetype gets access to hole traps because they interact with traptrix
What if wind up hunter gave its effect to all monsters on your field, and the effect could be used twice per monster?
Tossing mystic mine and final countdown would be an insane move if you could protect them
Love seeing the CGB collabs! Didn’t find much magic content that I liked while I was playing but CGB is the best. Always had some super interesting and unique decks. Was always a fun watch.
Was surprised Yujo Friendship wasn't on here & you having to describe the 'shaking hand' metagame.
Ok guys with all due respect how are you not prepared for mine at this point
The problem is it came out of nowhere. You play against a normal deck and think "Okay I need to side deck in these cards to counter that deck" and suddenly game two you get hit with a Mystic Mine and you lose the set
Also a lot of backrow hate spells are limited, banned or just bad, and are only circumstantially useful.
MST is near unplayable because its only a 1 for 1, and only useful if your opponent has a continuous spelltrap, field spell, or a trap they can't chain, and that doesn't happen as much as you would want.
Bigger removals like Harpies Feather Duster or Heavy Storm are banned or at 1, and so unreliable, and one again useless vs no backrown.
Most removal nowadays is often just bonus effects on monsters who also replace themselves with a new card that also does a bunch of other shit too, but Mystic Mine specifically stops monster effects, so those don't work anymore.
Okay guys with all due respect
How are you not prepared for this yet
What are you still whining about?
Just draw one of your nonsearchable outs
I played Draco while it was legal, so all I had to do was tribute my spells to destroy it. Aside from that I always have played removal in the main deck because I can't be bothered to look at everyone else's lists. Just deck build smartly not net deck and call it a day.
@@MrShukaku1991twin twisters, cosmic cyclone, galaxy cyclone, feather storm duster, and lightning vortex were all at three while mine was legal.
They were not limited.
I see the thumbnail, and I instantly react confused
Blue likes drawing cards
True lmao
"Yugioh is a game where everything is free, which means your cards are your resources... which is why Pot of Greed is banned... but Maxx C is completely fine even though it can draw you way more than 2 cards" -- CGB logic
I think the thing worth mentioning with Dimension Shifter is that Yugioh is not like Magic where there’s specific “graveyard decks” to counter. Without exaggeration, at least 80% of decks want graveyard access, and at least 50% completely rely on it. Shifter isn’t a card that hoses certain meta decks, it’s a card that hoses most decks in existence. That’s why the card is considered such a problem, the few decks that can play it just get to win free games in most matchups sometimes
Presumably, though, the card wins the game infrequently enough that high tier GY decks are equal to better than decks that run the card?
@@blueishgreen76 You just don't open it in the games you lose, doesn't make it any less miserable to play against
For context, other "banish all cards that go to the gy" effects are just as hated and some are even banned
@@blueishgreen76 yes, the Shifter decks don't tend to get AS MANY top 32s or whatever, but they also drag a lot of players down with them. Imagine missing Day 2 at a tournament ONLY because you played more Shifter decks THAT OPENED SHIFTER than other people and won all your rounds against "real" decks. The issue with Shifter is the card is straight up not able to be interacted with besides a single card at one copy (Called by the Grave) so if the opponent draws it you instantly get a non-game where you can't even prepare for it.
How in the blue blazes did this guy understand instantly how good Pot of Greed is, only to get stumped by Maxx C?
He things you'll have a next turn.
because pot of greed is just 100% free value no matter what, Maxx C is conditional - your opponent has to special summon twice in a turn to get pot of greed amounts of value. If you don't understand how prevalent special summoning is, you might think there will be turns or decks where you get 1 or 0 cards of value out of Maxx C. And if you don't understand the speed of the game, you won't understand how likely it is that refusing to special summon and passing just means you lose the game instantly. Remember that (by the way YGO counts turns), MtG is usually a 8-12 turn game - going down a card to make your opponent play a land and pass is strong, but not game-ending, especially if they have cards that let them utilize those untapped lands on *your* next turn instead, then they're not really losing any value at all.
@@KonetPrimeYeah, cards like Shifter or Maxx C look fine if you assume passing the turn means you simply don't get to use your mana for that turn (or have to use it instant speed once their effects end) and have to maybe take some damage next turn.
But if every deck apart from very few is essentially a combo deck that puts down an enchantment that gives every creature haste and can then easily summon 20 power worth of creatures and/or summon Emrakul with multiple counterspell backup, suddenly passing the turn doesn't seem as good.
"Is this free?" And "does it say you can't?" are like catchphrases to me at this point lol, I love it.
Definitely a fun person to have on the channel. He seems to genuinely have fun evaluating and discussing these ridiculous cards. Lol.
11:10 actually *insane* analysis by mesa falcon! 100 respect earned
I’d love for cimo to show cgb a championship match, and slow it down and explain it for him so he can really see how fast Yu-Gi-Oh! Is.. would be interesting to see his reaction
What CGB doesn't Understand about Dimensional Shifter, and the difference between it and cards like Leyline of the Void, is the fact that you can actually DESTROY Leyline of the Void. You can't deal with Shifter. Unless you can negate it immediately, you can't interact with it later.
gotta love lingering floodgates
Should've drawn the 1 of CBTG
Disruption is the most fun thing in cardgames. 1 tech card completely destroying the opponent's combo is awesome.
Cimo dying during the Maxx C evaluation was funny as shit
as a person who doesn't play ygo and knows almost nothing about it this video is very entertaining bc i also have no idea which cards are banned or even good lmao
Funny how you started with "CGB!" just like "LSV!" in the other episode lol
As a Magic player, my first thought about yu gi oh was "why don't they print more floodgates, so the game doesn't end in turn 2 ?"
Then I understood that people thinking like me could just play Magic.
Now I see Wizard of the Coast trying to turn our game into Yu gi oh. Cards turn into unreadable novels. We get every flavor of "play stuff for free". Companion were basically extra deck boss monsters.
I wish you Konami keeps your game in the healthiest version of itself.
because people like to play their cards, fundamentally shutting down a whole mechanic or aspect of a game is not fun nor is it even considered fair either and in most cases the deck playing the floodgates is typically build to get aorund it if not be less impeded by it
the main issue with a lot of floodgates in yugioh is that its way too easy to use, once you draw it all you have to do is just flip it on the opponent and then watch them squirm, on the other hand if the floodgate is made up of multiple pieces instead it ends up still being viewed negatively but much more receptive such as the icejade lock where people complaint when it was first revealed but then no one really thinks anything of it afterward
@@YukiFubuki. this is why some people had mellowed towards Tear format. Yes it's super centralized, but the games were interactive and strategic. You play your cards and they play theirs, you two crossed the streams somewhere, a ladybug got sent to the GY and you won on time
@@byotip floodgates don't actually fixe the problems yugioh has
they just add to the list of problems
@@YukiFubuki.People like to play their cards, and people like to make their opponents *not* play their cards. That's the entire point of trading cards games.
The real problem in yugioh is that players have absolutely no problem with their opponent doing these things to them if it's a monster doing it, but the moment the card turns magenta or teal then suddenly they freak out.
People think YGO is degenerate but really, it just skipped ahead of the other card games regarding years of power creep and started at 11/10.
Sees Pot of Greed: “I love drawing cards,”
Sees Maxx “C”: I don’t get it.
Imagine if it said "flip summon" instead of "special summon"
For CGB missing on the discard thing: The one thing that he might be missing with Robin Goblin, is that your monsters have to attack over your opponents monster. In mtg, we have tokens to get around your monsters, flyers, and if they have a 10/10, I can block with my 1/1 all day. Yugioh you have to attack the big boy, and the interaction on top makes robbing goblin never have the lines connect
But in Yu-Gi-Oh, your opponent takes damage from every attack that destroys an Attack Position Monster, there's no chump blocking.
I love how Cimo asks about haste and my thought was "that's about .5 of a mana."
It's so funny to see CGB go down the path that battle is super important and special summoning doesn't happen as often as it does in the modern game.
I'd genuinely love to see CGB try to wrap his head around Yu-Jo Friendship due to just how weird of a card it is
Cimo not mentioning that many cards say "when this card is sent to the GY..." during the D shifter explanation killed me
Mfw I can't Veiler their Unicorn.
Always love to see the boys doing more collabs
OH GOD!!!! HE'S A MINE LOVER!!!! GET THE INQUISITION!!!!
Cimo living in the alternate reality where Wind-Up Hunter actually got permanently banned and was not able to frame Zenmaity for his crimes.
It was banned in only one format in 2014 and then came back to 3 in the TCG.
I understand the progression cimo's going for in presenting CGB cards in an increasing order of complexity but I think it would be nice to show one or 2 combos every episode to give a sense of how it all works. No need to go for a modern deck but showing a combo on DB could go a long way.
If only for cards like wind-up hunter to actually show the loop.
I really want to see a "boss stage" in these videos, i get the teaching... but i want to see a baron or appollusa etc at the end.
The joy in CGB's expression reading Mystic Mine made me realise he's basically just younger Jeff Leonard. 😂
To CGB
Imagine a nadu mirror match, it will help you visualize what a modern Yu-Gi-Oh game looks like
There is very few ways to interact with Dimension Shifter and that is why the card is beyond hated. You can't really try to deckbuild around it either bc everyone uses the GY, it just happens that some deck get less screwed over than most deckss by shifter and a few exceptions even thrive with it.
With Final Countdown there is a tonne of "discard a card, draw a card" in Yugioh, specifically "discard a spell, draw a card" is printed on some great enablers, and those enablers are typically best in spell/trap stunt decks. I had a Dark Magician deck and a Vampire Genesis deck that used 9x3 of "set one" cards, because I also had 9x3 of cards that cycled anything I didn't need from my hand.
Practically speaking, even in old Yugioh the type of decks that would want to run that card have no downside to running 3x. There are ways to work around having multiple copies of a thing you only need one of that are just good - generally powerful.
You could also play Pyroclock of Destiny 😅
CGB sitting here going “how can i bounce Maxxx C back to my hand from the graveyard every turn so i can be a draw problem.”
As Cimoooo gets visibly concerned at the thought of said plan.
Mfw Spright in the OCG if they had enough engine would grab Maxx "C" from deck off Gigantic and bounce it with something (I don't remember what).