Near the end of the video, I was def tilted from chat and I misunderstood farfas point about "The Illusion". Im sorry for making a bigger deal than it is
Was gonna say, I see what they're onto. Actually having windows into parts of the game that you enjoy every once in a while is far less likely to turn away new players than just getting comboed and set up on in a 5 minute cutscene. You're watching a movie trailer to your loss as a new player in ygo. I think him phrasing it as "an illusion" instead of just saying you get to participate in a game more kinda gave it an accusatory inflection, lol. Overall I think it's good that this is getting some attention. I'd imagine playing ygo now is like piloting a freaking Gundam suit in a card deck. Like the feeling of piloting a complex machine is kinda the epitome of anime feel in a real life hobby. But yeah, it's behind a lot of discarded ideas and a slower, more palatable package. It just kinda leaned into that "must be this tall to play" scenario as things moved on. I think it'd be really hard to pivot back to a more palatable game with where it's at. It's just far too power crept unless they start majorly incentivizing older, much more low power formats.
@@mz1bz emotions flowing when you're making yourself super visible to strong opinions does stuff to people. I have definitely felt like Ram Ranch(😉) here is of the more reasonable sort of people, just a tough crowd and a sensitive topic for many. I think a lot of people nowadays think gaming culture war shit is bogus
The absolute best part is that I watched MBT's entire video, having watched Rarran several times, and it's just something that he so casually does all the time for different people/cards that I literally didn't notice until Rarran said something that he was doing it.
I love rarran finding out in real time that MBT is one of the naturally funniest people on the internet but nobody knows cause he only ever plays yugioh
@@YeahTheDuckweed If you're not into Yugioh I would also recommend the Yugituber "Rata [RANK10YGO]". Even if you don't care about the card game, his edits and sense of humor are very entertaining.
Absolutely. If MBT hadn't pigeonholed himself into Yugioh content, he could have been huge. Of course, I get the impression that he doesn't really care, and he sticks with Yugioh content because that's what he enjoys.
12:10 Clarifying the difference between "he did not have fun" and "he didn't get a chance to have fun" is like the difference between "negating the effect" and "negating the ACTIVATION of effect"
If the activation is negated, you get to use your "can only activate [this card's name] once per turn" cards again. Just like Rarran tried Edison format with Cimooo where he got a second chance to have fun at this game. Perfect analogy right here.
@@chenkaixiang2455 I have time to get into philosophical questions. A graph with no axis would be called an conceptual diagram, compared what you are imagining a quantitative diagram. Other types of conceptual diagrams are for example Flowcharts which also have no hard numbers to direct the arrows.
For some of your reactions you said they were treating it as a good thing, but what they were actually trying to imply was "Oh no, its much worse than that hun"
I just want to say, your most recent attempt to get into YGO was PERFECTLY timed. Recently, Konami's shareholders brought forth concerns that the game wasn't attracting new players. The fact that your attempt came so soon afterward and actually showed what it was like for an average potential new player feels like a big deal to me, because the waves in the community seem like an understanding that there actually might be problems that can be fixed.
I think the problem falls on Konami to fix, but it doesn't feel like the community is helping. Also I don't understand why yugioh players are so against changing or adding new rules. Like you can still have advanced format exactly as it is now AND alternate ways to play, but people freak out when you mention rotation or a summon limit. You don't have to kill advanced to have another way to play.
@@StefanDillandMarcRIP Yeah, literally every argument against rotating formats is "I think I'd like what we have now better." As if people would stop using old cards even if Konami wanted them to.
@@StefanDillandMarcRIPagreed. There has definitely been some elitist sentiment in the yugioh community for over a decade now. “Hah, our game is so complex and deep, you just aren’t able to understand it because you play baby games” seems to be the feeling I’ve encountered whenever people feel overwhelmed entering the game. And yet there’s still a sizable portion of the player base that freaks out whenever a new summoning method is introduced, either saying it doesn’t make any sense or is broken.
@@DSmith3279Absolutely fucking disagree, anyone who actually has any enjoyment in the game will tell you the same, you want a summon limit? Use Maxx C, a card that EVERYONE, apart from psychopaths, agree is unfun and completely bullshit. Summon limits do nothing but make Yugioh boring and slow.
I think his retort even was "I understand the battle phase, I get phases", which immediately indicates he did in fact, not understand the damage step. Good job, Konami
I responded on your comment for MBT's video, but I'll also put it here with timestamps relevant to this video. That is, every nickname MBT calls you: 1:27 Ra-Ran 1:57 Rar-Ran 2:46 Ray-Ran 3:07 Old Rarry 4:23 Mr. Ran 5:17 Ran-Ranch 7:42 Hidden Valley Ra-Ranch 9:03 RarXD 11:56 Rarrinago 12:40 Ruh-Ran 16:00 Rastafarian 17:35 Rat Race
Here from the MBT community. Regarding MBT's last point about resource systems in YGO, I think he brings up the cards themselves as an example due to how few-and-far-between playable draw cards are in YGO. It's why Maxx C is so centralising of a card; seeing 3-4 cards into your deck with pretty much no drawback is incredibly impactful on how a game will turn out, simply due to how much more the typical YGO card does in comparison to other card games.
Other cards games are the same way though. Drawing a card is the strongest action you can general take. It's called card advantage in magic and is huge to improving and part of resource management. I think his point is that all games have cards as resources. HS is probably a bit less concerned on card advantage as a drawing and discovering is a bit more common, but it is definitely still a thing.
I would argue that the lack of playable card draw in YGO is due to the lack of an actual resource mechanic. You can print good card draw in MTG and Hearthstone because having more cards doesn't translate to more plays, it only translates to more options.
Also, unlike most Magic that I've seen, the entire deck in YGO is a turn-by-turn resource. A YGO player has to genuinely think about decking themselves out or completely running out of gas at every juncture way more than other games.
@@StefanDillandMarcRIPin Yugioh, a card that permanently gets rid of a quarter of your deck to draw 2 has seen consistent play. Drawing is strong in all card games but its extra strong in yugioh
@kingnewgameplus6483 yes I understand. It's stronger due to the fact of no resources to play the cards. Other games still have card advantage though. The strength may very as drawing 1 in yugioh maybe be equal to drawing 2 I. Magic, but it's still resource management in any card game. It's a fundamental part of card games. The more cards you have the more stuff you can do. That's in literally every game.
I think the fundamental problem of approaching Yugioh as a new player is that everyone approaches it based off what they know from other card games when it's literally impossible to correlate anything from any card game with Yugioh. No mana, no colors, no keywords, the only correlation is basically just there's a battle phase and even with that, Yugioh does it so differently than any other game with a damage step, damage calculation, etc. It's really more like a fighting game where you kind of can mess around and learn on your own, doing combos but it's not until you watch someone else play it and the combos just click and you're like "ohhhh i kinda get now!" it's very difficult to jump in and learn on your own.
@@juliuschuang6098 it's so true and how a top tier player switches up their combo mid combo like yugioh even the slower decks are pretty combo-y and trading blows with your opponent that it's very difficult to enjoy it if you're used to traditional card games
Actually, master duel could probably afford to take more cues from fighting games. Even if beginners dont understand crossups, hotboxes and hurtboxes, they can at least see the health bars and watch the characters jump around. Master duel is actually kind of worse to follow as an outsider since the cards just randomly blow up or not blow up for seemingly no reason, and it's virtually impossible for a spectator to understand who's winning. At least in the tcg you can actually see the players shuffling/searching and cards going into the graveyard and back. Perhaps better UI design such that a high level turn is more visually apparent what is happening would be good for the game.
I would love to see some videos with MBT. He's not only entertaining, but he also has pretty good insight into the field of card games, so he might be pretty interesting for an advanced version of rating cards or something like that.
Face value what Farfa said was even if you horribly lose in magic, hearthstone, or most other TCGs you at least get a few turns to play since you're usually just summoning one card due to mana and passing. In YuGiOh you summon everything turn one so you have no chance to play anything, leaving the feeling that you literally didn't get to play.
Dude acted like a massive baby anything far said heart wasn’t as complicated and went off on rants that complicated don’t equal better lol ? Ok far didn’t say it was or wasn’t just stated facts. I agreed with everything til I started seeing he was getting butthurt from any generalization of hearthstone.
I'm glad he enjoyed MBT's response. And I was even happier to hear you would be open to the idea of collabing with him. I think whether it's just a casual one off collab or a series(maybe where he can teach you yugioh at a digestible pace) it would be hilarious and help cross more players a viewers between communities.
@@jamontoastman9the problem is MBT has played a bunch of different card games, and often. He's familiar enough with Hearthstone that it wouldn't be content.
I really don't think he's ever gonna play Yu-Gi-Oh again. Maybe in like 2 years when he's looking for something different to try but right now it seemed so unfun that there doesn't seem to be any reason to try again.
@@cactusguy4363 But that is what makes it fun. Everyone else that does a "rate the X card game card" only plays one card game. It'll be different to see the opinion of someone that has knowledge on every game.
@amuro9624 I think this is doubly true after the farfa chatters were giving him hell on that stream, followed by farfa and mbt getting into a heated discussion about farfa takes on Rarran's video. Probably gnna scare him away from yugioh all together.
Its just so new player unfriendly - like personally i only kinda was able to get into it cuz I was super late to the party and decided to just not play link cards and even when i chose to play a deck with links it took like a month and even then I had to practice my combos it is just so hard to pick up
@@rantbot9176 its more or less the nature of a game being so different from all its contemporaries like you sorta have to go in expecting a game completely different from any other tcgs because people dont yugioh for a mana system surrounded by a different flavor of tcg, they play it because yugioh is just so unlike everything else that beign said i think finding an archetype or deck to get attached to really helps, because yugioh is so flexible in deck construction you can build upon that single deck that you really like adjusting and tweaking it as you learn to play the game in rpg mechanic verse its like learning to dungeon crawl with the right weapon/character, if you dont vibe with it its not gonna be pretty
@@PuchuKt It's not Stockholm Syndrome. I've been playing the game since the boomer days and honestly, the game is just different from anything else. Back then it was trying to squeeze resources with every card, earning every +1 in card advantage until you won. Then the DARK and Synchro era came where decks became stupidly fast but not quite like the modern era. That was exciting too because you got to do powerful bullshit but one false move and you could lose. Then the proceeding eras was basically a hybrid of the boomer era + the early Synchro era where decks can do dumb stuff but you had to grind sometimes to win equal matchups.
Just be a netdecker. there are way smarter people out there that poured hours into perfecting a list no reason to waste your time building when someone has already done all that work for you.
@@RandomGuyCDN but deck building its the best part and the most complex one, I have tons of hours into master duel and figuring out that I can use Diviver of the herald to summon Alphan in super Quantal was the most mind boggling thing of my life and wouldn't be nearly has fun if had just netdecked. Not saying that you shouldn't netdeck just that is fun to be found in building decks that you dont know the meta build.
@@HazeEmry It is really hard to learn the nuances of a deck without net decking in Yugioh. It is a lot better to get a template/structure deck, test it a bunch. Figure out what isn't working, then looking through ways to fix that through either reading through the database, or looking how other people build the deck. I do agree deckbuilding is super fun. But making a Frankenstein's Monster of other people's lists to cater to your tastes is also super good for learning.
@@haruhirogrimgar6047 why not just look at all the cards in an archetype first and start figuring stuff out from there? The Frankenstein decks can come later. First, read. Next, build a rough deck and play against a friend or ai. Idk dude, making a deck from scratch is way more fulfilling than just stealing a list online
I think the biggest problem with keywords in Yugioh is that there are many effects in the game where it could be almost exactly the same effect, but changing a single word in that sentence could change how that effect interacts with other cards. For example, if a card requires you to discard 2 cards (not cost) to be able to do an extra effect, there is a difference between whether you discarded "those cards" or discarded "them." The exact word choice matters too much that if they wanted to make a keyword for certain types of effects, they'd have to make variants on that keyword to represent the different types of interactions.
Yugioh would need to streamline and probably have a rules update to resolve. I've played Magic since 1995 and the game has had multiple major rules updates some of which completely changed how some cards actually functioned etc..but streamlined the game into a more intuitive play experience. Back in the day Yugioh seemed to settle on "no keywords" as a way to differentiate itself from others TCG's "hey intimidated by needing to pick up keywords to play a card game, well we don't have any" and that worked for awhile until it suddenly and rapidly didn't.
Ok, as a yugioh player you do not need a textbook in the cards to figure things out how they work or trigger. A great great for your issue would be: Discard one card from hand then destroy a card on the field. (This is a cost)
@@novacelest6381 Well, for starters, I have no idea what "a great great for your issue would be..." means; I can tell the second "great" should be a different word, but I can't figure out what. For two, that is not a cost as the required PSCT to indicate that it is a cost is not there. For three, that does not have anything to do with my point; the card effect discarding not as cost was a part of the context, not the issue. Discarding for effect instead of cost allows your opponent to chain to your card and make it so you no longer have one of the two cards needed to discard before the card effect resolves, while if it was for cost, you'd have already discarded before your opponent can do anything, so the difference in "them" vs "those" does not come up. The card effect "Reveal 2 cards in your hand; discard those cards, and if you do, draw 2 cards" does not work the same as "Reveal 2 cards in your hand; discard them, and if you do, draw 2 cards" even though they look like they should be the same thing.
MTG has the exact same nuances yet it still uses plenty of keywords. For example the keyword exile was introduced precisely to distinguish between cards that go into your graveyard and cards that bypass the graveyard, due to how the graveyard itself can act as a resource in MTG, as it can in Yu-Gi-Oh. It's perfectly fine to have multiple keywords describing the same concept but with nuances, MTG has been doing it for decades.
Issue is YGO is just dumb And its weird and overly complicated rulings are just an effect of the low effort that was put into "standardizing" the game and its rules over the years (in particular in the beginning) The feeling it gives is that no one at Konami ever thought about the game going forward, they just kept coming up with stuff on the spot with no regards to the game's state outside of banlists, all while maintaining basically the same core mechanics we had 20+ years ago Keywords would solve little to nothing still though, exactly because the game is not as standardized as MTG in a sense We need official formats, a major rules change, or a full reboot, otherwise i cant even guess what the game will look like in 10 years from now
@@DinoBat well yeah but he did get pretty angry fast by just simple comment that aren't even that toxic kinda a bad sign if you are a content creator idk. Hard to watch after a while.
@@DreYeonthat's valid if it's the first time that happened, but I'm willing to bet it was at least the 20th time he got told something like that on TH-cam comments, and that's low balling it
@@benjamintrap7227There's a difference between having a low attention span, and not having any prior knowledge or way to understand what's going on. Not to mention God forbid you open with no interruptions (which he wouldn't know what those are) then you're just watching how opponent play and doing NOTHING for 15 minutes. I'd fucking check out too
I don't think Farfa's sarcasm was the "problem" here. It was chat talking bullshit and tilting him even further and not helping him to properly understand shit but rather keep backseat gaming and provoking even over and over.
The funniest part was that even a meme, that was also a fact considering how busted handtraps are. But we must also admit that rarran was being naive thinking people wouldn't use busted decks on a *WCS*
They should really make it to where they give you Three Decks for completing a full session of a respective mechanic. Like maybe Traptrix after learning Traps, Xyz and Link. Swordsoul for learning Synchro summon. Shaddoll for learning fusion summon. And I don't mean these would be half complete either I mean they are maxed out with the full version of each.
Yu-gi-oh is basically the Marvel vs. Capcom 3 of card games and that is why I love playing the game. Both games are very overwhelming for new players though.
Examples of archetypes: Fnaf (fluffal) Buddhistic shonen Doctor who (Visas Starfrost) American football (U.A) and NASCAR (F.A.) Dragons (so. Many. Dragons) Undead (Vendread, Zombie pile, Memento, etc) Linguistic nonsense combines into what I assume are warrior-shaped atom bombs (onoma&co. + Utopia) Haunted armory that combines to another bunch of dragons (Phantom Knight) Dante’s Divine Comedy (Burning abyss) Lovecraft (elder entity) Castlevania (vampires archetype) (owned by Konami) Shooter arcade game (B.E.S) MMORPG (Generaider + Runic) Fish in space (ghoti) Spies (Spyral) Karakuri [historical Japanese old robots] (Karakuri) Romance of the three kingdoms (ancient warriors) Emo satan (darklord) *Anime story: Catholics (Dogmatika), furriest with guns (tri brigade), theater kids (despia), dragons (branded), robots (springans), Elecrticity (Springans), different robots (therion)* Modern fictional monsters (danger!) More furries with weapons (fur hire) Plants (Naturia, Rikka, Aroma) Sharks HEROs Isekai (Adventure) Frogs Birds Statues (Megalith) Lego Monster hunters (nekroz) Penguins Gods (aesir, sacred beasts, divine beasts, generaider) Walkyries Hide and seek (melffy) Robo birds (raidraptor)
Except MVC3 is way easier to get into and is fun from the get go. I can play against someone completely new at MVC, but with fg experience, without having to hand them over a study guide for them to read. The fundamentals are the same as any anime fighter. No one does, or is expected to do optimal ToD combos at the beginning. I had no trouble getting into it. Hell, Skullgirls is a way harder tag fg to get into imo, but it still isn't overwhelming. If I was to compare it to any fg, it would be Blazblue because of how insanely diverse its cast is, but even then, they all operate, at their core, the same as any other fg. To be truly comparable to YGY, the game would need to force you to read the lore in its entirety from the glossary and watch several videos explaining it before letting you play. YGY is truly one of a kind when it comes to the new player experience. The only game that barely comes close imo is DOTA2, but even then it's a lot more intuitive and fun when starting out.
@@samuelconnel2166 Here's the thing. A lot of old school Yugioh players got into the game thanks to the anime. That allowed them to come in with a fundamental understanding of how the game is played, even if the real game has completely different tactics, they can focus on learning game objectives instead of basic rules. That doesn't happen anymore. In 2023, no one watches the anime who isn't already a fan of the franchise.
There are a few older cards that have 'keywords' in their text but then the keyword is immediately followed by an explanation of what it means. I'm pretty sure that every single 'Gemini', 'Spirit' and 'Union' monster has a large portion of their text explaining what those keywords mean.
@@Bezaliel13at a yugioh player: I undetermined what Flying as a keyword means. I understand what Reach as keyword means. Piercing is a keyword we already have in Yugioh. We already use RoTA as a way to explain a generic search for a card of a particular (X). Anything that adds a monster from GY to Hand is a Salvage like effect. Anything that applies a "all cards sent to GY are Banished instead" is a Macro Cosmos to the average meta and casual YGO player. How many archetypes have a Skill Drain like card? We already have pseudo Keywords in Yugioh. All that having actual keywords would do is mandate a shit ton of reprints for the erratas, and make cards that do the same thing, say they do that thing in the same way.
@@wickederebus Sidenote: If it looks too long for you, just read the part before my Note. Rather annoying how everyone uses the same super basic keywords for their examples. How about Rampage, Amplify, Intimidate, Banding, and anything else I can pull with a google? Not that you examples made sense *for Yu-Gi-Oh.* How some keywords from the actual franchise, like PARTING GIFT, SHARED FATE, SHOCK, BACKFIRE, or OSMOSIS? Note: They were uppercased because I dragged them from yugipedia. "All that having actual keywords would do is mandate a shit ton of reprints for the erratas, and make cards that do the same thing, say they do that thing in the same way." No, for there is no way the over ten THOUSAND Yu-Gi-Oh cards can be summarized by a few keywords. Frankly, that statement is just dumb. Not to mention keywords for archetypes, like CYBERDARK or CRYSTAL BEAST. I know you think it would be OK because players reference famous cards to refer to _similar_ Effects, so the keywords could be completely self-referential without you seeing anything wrong with it, but they just are not similar enough for that to make any sense, even ignoring how very many keywords would need to be made. Before you start, changing Toon Table of Contents to "Reinforcement 'Toon' card" would not prove they should try for a card with more than one Effect. Having the game not use keywords meant Konami had to try extra hard to avoid cards having the same Effect with even the tiniest difference, so *no matter how much you try, yes **_try,_** to say* some cards have the exact same, that would not work no matter how many examples of cards with "Attack Force" you list. Seriously, the game has been anti-keywords.
@@Bezaliel13 cause ones like banding have been uncommon and good at bet and irrelevent at best. its better to maybe have to look up banding 1 time than have to read an essay of card text on every single card i read reglardless of function being identical.
@@wickederebus That's not all it would do. It would also greatly shorten the text on every card, and make it so that once you understand what a keyword does the next time you see it, on a different card, you can skip the lengthy explanation of what the keyword does as you already know it. Not using the keyword forces you to read the entire card every time in case there is a difference between that specific card and other card with similar effects, which lets face it is very often the case as both Yu-Gi-Oh and MTG have very similar mechanics with only minor nuances distinguishing between them, like the difference between putting a card into the graveyard or the exile pile in MTG. So rather than read the same text every time to find out whether a specific card is put into the graveyard or exile pile you just see whether it's a discard or exile effect by the keyword used.
I think a good start for Yu-Gi-Oh! is the Edison format. It has a competitive side (konami held events), a great community (there's an online page constantly uploading events, decks, and the like), a "paused" format (since it's a past format, no more cards will be added to the pool), and, most importantly, it's fun. I wish you luck in this endeavour!
An issue with yugioh implementing keywords is that card effects differ in small but important ways, such as whether they target, how they resolve when parts of the effect fail, and what the restrictions are, there's more than 5 different "once per turn" conditions that all behave differently for instance. Theoretically, if we were to try to add "indestructable" as a keyword, it would only replace the effectively identical "cannot be destroyed" and would still have to specify what it can't be destroyed by, as it may be only monster effects, only opponent's card effects, only attacks, etc. Essentially, the issue is that there aren't many consistent effects to make into keywords ("search", "bounce", and probably a couple others would work), and if you try to make keywords for small parts of effects, you find that they usually already exist as 2-3 consistent words that describe that action (even if you haven't encountered it before) without having to memorize another keyword. ("What does excavate mean?" is itself a barrier to entry)
This is honestly my biggest bitching about the game. Forget everything else, while codewords make it easier for those of us in the know, its hell to even just explain them to other people.
28:56 yea it does there a huge difference between a card that says “ Target one card on the field and banish it “ and “ Banish one card one the field “ stuff like that barley scratches the surface lol
I’m of the opinion that the best way to learn yugioh without outside help is to look up a doomking balerdroch turbo decklist and learn from there. It’s the basic starting point for every zombie deck, is decently simple in concept (as the deck’s whole gimmick is sending the titular card to the graveyard and reviving him, like a zombie resurrecting), and once you learn it, you can throw in any archetype of zombie monsters to learn that archetype’s summoning mechanic while still having a recognizable list of cards that mesh well with your new cards. Shiranui for synchro, vampires for XYZ, vendread for rituals, mayakashi for links, eldlich for fusion and trap monsters.
This has all been very interesting. I think the important thing with Yugioh is guiding people to easier decks to begin with and having a tutorial based around a selection of competent, but simple decks that can gradually introduce new players. Salads and dragonmaids were terrible first decks. To be fair to Konami, they do release one deck every meta shift which is clearly designed for newer players. Good example being Labrynth. You can make this into a casual stun deck, and slowly add cards to make it more powerful and complex. That said, I think Duel links does a good job simplifying the game enough to make it accessible... but unfortunately duel links is a scam :,D
As a yugi boomer i actually got back into yugioh when master duel released. It actually took me a month to pick up modern yugioh but that was with looking at md tier lists. Building a tier 1 deck looking up how to play the deck, combo guides, etc For memorizing cards by just seeing their images it takes an additional few months since there are so many archetypes. After that though you kind of have learned how to speed read cards and what parts of the text are relevant or not. You understand oh this card works like this other card. It is not an easy game to get into. It is super fucking complicated where even people who have played for a while still misunderstand interactions. The "yugioh players can't read" meme is us making fun of ourselves at misunderstanding somwthing in one of the most complex card games to ever exist. I agree with everything you said in the vid.
something else they don't really tell you about in Yugioh is BKSS. For those who read this and don't know what that is: "Because Konami Says So", it's a saying for when two or more cards have effects that are effectively the same/similar effect-wise, but Konami rules that they work in different ways during gameplay. (A now-fixed case of BKSS from when I played: "Fortune Lady Light" and "Earthbound Immortal Aslla Piscu" both have effects that activate when they leave the field and the terms of activation were worded exactly the same. However, for years Konami stated that if the monsters were face-down when they leave the field, Fortune Lady Light would activate, but Aslla Piscu would not. and just to be clearn, meta relevance of the example is unnecessary, this is just an example that wasn't fixed until around 2019 lol) Since I've been out of the game for a while, I am unsure if BKSS is still a thing, but I would hope it's been removed.
@@Saixjacket or during the tournament if it doesn't come up beforehand. Sometimes you just don't know if one of those BKSS situations will come into play. It does kind of seem like they're getting around to fixing some older rulings to clear things up though. Good on them. :)
35:00 Rush Duels is a japanese exclusive variant (idk why) of yugioh that solves every problem rarran has with yugioh. Simpler effects, easier to read, same fast pace and tribute summoning actually matters. Also the card legibility is waay better. TLDR: it's like the Hearthstone version of Yugioh.
There IS a video game version of Rush Duels, I think it's just called that, so it's not Japan only. But I haven't played it, only seen some and it looks more story-driven so might just be solo, if so doesn't really count.
And it looks like it will finally come to the tcg either end of year or start of new year. It's just unfortunately as far as it's gone in the anime. It still suffers from komoneys greedy and useless card design inadequacies. In which booster sets where practically only 30% of cards in a booster are actually useful or good in general.
I taught myself how to play when master duel came out. It was not fun. Only *now* do I find the game so fun. Half of my fun is building decks because I like to find stuff that works together and expresses my personality better
It wasn't like that for me at all, I picked a deck and learned it, then played it against other players, lost a lot, then started winning some, understood why I was winning, and started making and playing other decks from there. Yugioh isn't necessarily hard, but it's old and expansive, meaning you have to know a lot about the game.
In YGO each archetype is basically its own minigame/resource. That's the appeal for veteran players but impossible to teach to an isolated casual player.
You say casual but how would we know if he's a potential future pro or casual when he got turned off because of the steep entry point? For all you know he could've been a top 8 advanced player but because the start was so unapproachable he got turned off at the start. (I play yugioh haven't played magic or hs but i see how fast this game has gotten from its inception so i understand the learning curve is unreasonable for a majority of people)
@@swittchbladeI think the idea is that saying "who cares about casual, this is for the hardcore gamers" (which may not have been what OP meant, but many other comments have expressed this idea) is that "in order to BECOME a hardcore player, you start off as casual. If the game is going to prosper, you need to have mechanics that foster the casual players and excite them enough to BECOME hardcore"
I agree with literally every point you've made but the one thing that is real annoying is that you think when someone says it's more complex, you think they're saying it's better. They make think it's better but at 1:09:00 when farfa is explaining the difference with HS and YGO you get mad triggered and say "that doesn't mean it's better" when everyone including your chat is telling you that he didn't say that. You've assumed that's what they mean. I watch you, mbt and farfas content and pretty much agree with all of you but that was a bad take.
and yeah the absolute heat at the end is such an overreaction to both the community and your chat, there are trolls but I was like scanning wondering how you were getting so mad at what they were saying and rarely was something just blatantly stupid. The start of this video was really valid and constructive but I feel that simple misunderstandings led to some really rude interaction to people who weren't coming at you at all.
@@Novakunmbt was really clear and concise. Farfa’s words and tone was not and chat made it even worse. Thats all there was to it - worse still that he wasn’t consistent with joking around or being serious while MBT sets the tone and keeps it while Farfa you have to interpret whether or not hes trolling or serious. Not disagreeing at all but honestly the misunderstandings all came from farfa
@@rantbot9176 I agree to some extent but while farfa joked around, his basic comments of talking about the games complexity was still completely misunderstood on rarrans end here. He just said it was complex and it was interpreted as "it's better." His "illusion" point is a little more convoluted but because of the earlier meltdown, it was again overreacted to making the situation worse
@@Novakun i agree completely- they didnt address Rarran’s points and chat would use it to try to say Rarran is stupid and somehow Farfa’s points disprove Rarran
@@NewtBannner Considering the insane takes they had both in his twitch chat, youtube comments, and on twitter, yeah, I think that's a fair assessment of the Yu Gi Oh players he has to deal with. It honestly reminded me of Trump supporters with how in denial and unwilling to compromise vocal members of the community was, up to and including where even people "trying" to be helpful failed spectacularly to see what the original issue is.
@@AnonymousProffessionThat's just average farfa chat user, i could try to explain it, but u wouldn't get it, even farfa gets mad at his own chat bc how silly and dumb they can make some takes, not saying farfa promotes these comments, neither his chat is like a bunch of toxic people ( well at least most part of it ), but at some point, if you keep watching cl1Cir target Dante cl2 Dante target... troll despair, your brain just get replaced with monki flip.gif, and ain't too much you can do about it, if you know what I'm saying.
@@AnonymousProffession Clearly sure your profession is known. Don't just get weirdly political ,nobody knows what you're talking about unless they also have twitter installed
Welcome to humanity my friend! A lot of people just can’t comprehend the idea of decency and coexistence. Some people just wake up and choose conflict. It’s hilarious and also super fascinating to view as a person who doesn’t fall into that category
It's also possible a pro plays a combo or control deck with bad or expensive draws against a noob playing agro, and the noob wins cause the pro just couldn't draw outs to the board spam and face damage.
Jup ygo players defending ygo because ranran has a little attention stpan is copium from chat at max level. Ygo is fckn hard. Just showed a friend of mine modern ygo. My friend played only until gx. And ge does not understand a sting. Meanwhile i showed him a MTG match an he could follow it
@@simplyyunak3189yep, and you know what, this game is just major waste of time if you're not playing tourneys or making content. Ygo is the same as battle royale game, you're watching other players playing for 90% of the time if you suck.
I know i'm late to the party but even if he is indeed right on the yugioh is too hard to understand i think that we have gotten away from just saying no in repetition to the opponent. Though i don't play that much master duel so perhaps it's different there
yeah, you do get that thing of "this card does this" by the art but it takes immersing yourself in the game for a few months, since there are so many different archetypes and things you can do. Also effects are just more wild in ygo, understanding the difference between monster effects in ygo vs how creatures have effects in other games is really important. Also, if you ever get btfo by a deck in yugioh, ask the guy playing the deck to explain it to you and youll get it in no time. Game looks a lot harder than it actually is, my biggest issue with ygo is that its a bit auto-piloty since you're always assembling so much stuff it just seems like a complete waste of time. We used to have plenty of fun with ygo back when it had more intuitive monster effects and I think in trying to create an identity ygo has lost what made people love it in the first place.
Shouldnt have to "immerse yourself" in a game for months just to understand it. Anyone can pick up pokemon, lorcana or magic and understand the game through a tutorial or basic rulebook. YGO does none of that.
In my experience as a noob in yugioh, the gameplay feels great once you get confortable with your deck and some key cards in the meta. I like that each hand gives me a puzzle to solve. The only thing I really dislike is that I have to study a lot before playing a new deck. I think it is a good game if you have time and pacience to read a lot.
The problem is if you’re a new player and you’re not watching videos/getting other people to help you it’s hard to get comfortable with the meta and there are so many cards that you play against that it’s extremely hard to understand what your opponent is doing if you haven’t played against that deck before. The amount of time you have to spend reading even all the meta relevant cards and getting comfortable with what they do is way too long and most of them are very unintuitive, especially compared to the other big card games where the cards are much more simple and the resource systems are much easier to understand.
That's honestly a huge problem tbh. I love the game and all, but it doesn't have the right to demand hundreds of hours from you, for you to start having fun or understand what's going.
@@guilhermefratin9532this kinda goes back to the point that again the game isn’t accessible without watching videos or getting help. How are people supposed to know that the game can be really hard to get into without the above things? It’s really just not accessible to new players. I love the game especially in recent metas where there’s more back and forth (except kash ariseheart and unicorn type banish effect are terrible), but they’re also even more complex and harder to get into ever because it’s not just an infinite generic negate fest. You really have to learn what each deck does and exactly where to interact and even with tear in md being dominant, there are at least 5-10 other decks that are extremely competitive right now
If anyone is still confused about what Farfa meant by the "Illusion" of gameplay It's that in resource-based card games even though you have no conceivable way of winning the game you don't just lose on the spot. The resource system slows down the pace of the game so that you can take game actions. But since you have no way of actually winning the game you're just playing to lose. In Yugioh a lot of the time you just know on the spot how you're gonna do against your opponent just by looking at your opening hand and seeing what they play. You just figure out if you're gonna lose or not faster.
His point does boil down to, you’re gonna lose against the world champion in both games, but in HS/MTG you at least get to play the game and feel like you’re doing something and have fun.
You get to play in both games its only that i hs its a game that takes 15 min and 15 turns and in yugioh 20 min and 3 turns its the same thing. All the intereaction that you could jave in a game you do in those 3 turns
Farfa didn’t say it very well in fairness. He literally could’ve said this: in HS and MTG you get to actually play the game and have fun. In yugioh you don’t get to play.
@@lamalogi2376 he is so tilted and the fact that he is angry about the fact thats he was reading but he was not understand8ng i can see he just reads the words and none of them got into his head. Again he didnt really try to learn why was he dooing stuff he just clicked buttons
One thing that people tend to misunderstand about the resources being managed in yugioh is the importance of managing hard once per turn effects. For an example, tearlament is an archetype based around triggering the effect to fusion summon on the 3 main monsters every turn. Essentially the deck gets 3 attempts to fusion summon per turn provided you can get the monsters into the grave. Those effects are the resource being managed. Most yugioh decks have something similar to this, but how exactly this manifests varies from deck to deck. This is where the complexity and steep learning curve comes from. This was MBTs point from the end of his video.
But that's still not really a resource system. That's game effects. A resource system is what requires you to work around to get those effects to activate. A balance to prevent over playing and keeping turns to a minute or 2 max. A resource system should make you think. Like assuming yugioh had one, "should spend X resource to try and do a special summon here or save x resource for a hand trap next turn?" You can kinda just do whatever you do and if you've got the cards while your opponent doesn't, you win.
@@gekikudo saying hard once per turns don’t count as a resource is like saying tapping a creature in magic doesn’t count as a resource. Also keep in mind that there is a lot more interaction in the average yugioh turn compared to most other card games so saying turns need to be short to keep a sense balance seems ill informed. Ultimately a resource system is something that limits what you can do within a certain timeframe and hard opt effects do accomplish that goal.
@@gekikudo I don’t know of a single game that utilizes hard once per turn effects in the same way and to the same extent as yugioh. In something like hs or magic, if I draw multiples of the same card, my ability to play both is limited by mana. In yugioh, you are instead limited by the hard once per turn clause on most modern cards. In other words, I have used my 1 out of 1 activation of a given card name. That is a resource that is limiting my plays. This absolutely has an impact on decision making over the course of a game. Alternatively consider a situation where you draw 2 monsters that have a strong effect when normal summoned. In this situation I have to decide which of those 2 cards a use my singular normal summon on. This is very similar to having only enough mana to play only one. The only difference is which game mechanic is limiting what I can do.
To answer the question of what people mean when they say cards are a resource in yu-gi-oh, discarding and sacrificing cards as a cost to summon others or just use their effects is more core to the design than in other card games. That limits the amount of things you can do more directly based on the raw number of cards you have access to, irrespective of what the individual card is.
You still missed his point. In ANY card game, you need cards to do things. Doesn’t matter if you need extra cards to play cards, the fact that you need them to do anything to impact your line to win makes it being a resource the same to other tgcs
"discarding" or "sacrificing" cards as and example of resource system for YGO is absolutely nonsensical, it wouldve made sense maybe 10 years ago Rn, whatever you're gonna sacrifice, 90% of the time it wants to be sacrificed in order to generate value Cards in hand are a resource system in the sense that you're gonna have a limited number of options when the game starts, but thats really it
I think it is not a hot take, that card games can work without a mana system. There are difrent ways to introduce recources and it is something that is underexplored.
@@YeahTheDuckweed well yes but almost every other collectible card game uses mana as a baseline. And i think yugioh is a very bad example of how it could be done. I like the way dominion uses resources, tho it is a bit of a diffrent game
@@darkwarriors6521 dzeeff once made a video called something along the lines of "what if every effect in yu-gi-oh was once per *duel* " Kinda interesting I guess
"I understood the damage step" - I lol'd Damage step has some of the most needlessly complex rulings in the game, that don't come up like ever, but if they do, they ruin your day. In short, you have 5 different substeps, and different restrictions on what cards can and cannot be activated during each substep. Also @1:02:42 - I dont think the 6 months is accurate. I've started the game (admittedly again, after playing a bit on the playground, and the DS games) in June last year, with Dragonmaid in the TCG, and the amount of understanding most yugioh players have (what does this do, are there relevant restrictions) is like...5 times + a basic guide. Like, half of the card is basically fluff during a turn, which you can ignore. "This [card names] effect can only be activated once per turn" - no line would try to use it more often, because of exactly that. any type of lock - if you are aware of it, it's relevant. If not, it is basically a deckbuilding restriction, so you dont have to care anymore once you hit play. The big issue here is that cardtext is formatted worse than your average 4th grade essay, and thus impossible to get the relevant info at a glance while playing against it.
declare attack battle step start of damage step in damage step before damage calculation damage calculation after damage calculation end of damage step
When adding in the tutorial in master duel, it gaslights you into thinking that the complexity starts at the same level as any other card game. Then when you actually start playing the game you suddenly realize that the difficulty spikes. The tutorial didn't teach you anything you actually needed to know so now you're confused as fuck. As you're actually learning what you need to know and you get more experience from playing you start to realize that it's even more complex until there's suddenly a point when it all starts to suddenly make sense. You start recognizing patterns of how your deck works, you start recognizing patterns about how your opponents deck works, you start understanding when you should interact with your opponent, you understand how you can shut down your opponents plays, and you start winning. Suddenly you hit a brick wall. Your starter deck isn't powerful enough to compete against any competent decks. If you decide to continue and build a better deck or search up guides on the best decks, you'll start to feel like Konami is laughing at you for ever being enough of a fool to think you understand the game from where you are. As you start going up against or try to play the tier 3-1 decks, you suddenly realize that the complexity has now gone higher than when you were confused as fuck at the start of your playtime. The only way to truly enjoy the game is to drip feed the games 20 years mechanics over the course of a couple months. You literally have to play playground yugioh with new players and 1-2 experienced players who have the patience to walk you guys through this shit. Modern yugioh hasn't been new player friendly in almost a decade. You desperately need to know someone who already understands the game to even have a chance at enjoying your experience. You also can't take a break unless you want to spend another couple hours learning all the new shit going on. It's a pain for new and returning players.
As a concatenate person who has left and came back to yugioh. The biggest grip I had was the player base because some new material came out, and they weren't helpful. After learning from judges the right plays, the community is toxic and is too prideful to admit we need change for new players. Love the video, and agree this game needs improvement.
Fun fact, master duel DOES have a way to import decks... only issue is you need to know how to use the console on your PC AND you need a konami official account AND to upload a list onto their website 😂 ITS STUPID
@@JohnnyMacs19 several others have mentioned this, but i will maintain that it wasn't Farfa, it was Twitch Chat basically pushing Rarran's buttons and tilting him.
@@phoenix5029chat was definitely like the source of all of the frustration and its even fucking worse that people act like its unprofessional or that his anger was unfounded
Its really not that hard to understand what farfa is saying at 1:23:21, he said that if you put a pro yugioh player against a noob yugioh player the game is just over in the first turn and you wont be able to do anything, but if you put a pro hearthstone player against a noob even the noob will get to play a few turns off the game before he loses, thats the illusion that he was mentioning, in yugioh there is no illusion if you are worse then you just dont get to do anything
Tbh the illusion helps a player feel better but masks the massive skill gap but at the same time creates those toxic people say the whole I would've won if *made up scenario* happened who won't accept skill gaps are a reality that you have to accept but also can work towards getting better at the game too
@@Fencer_Nowa It's not a skill gap honestly. In most games, in a pretty sizable amount of games, there are optimal decisions that are easy to make and assuming your opponent doesn't make a terrible mistake, the result is set in stone from before you even draw your cards. No skill you could've used, unless you consider building your deck in the first place, in which case, yeah. But still.
@@rantbot9176 It's because the sarcasm is basically only detectable if you know exactly what he's talking about in regards to the jokes he's making about mechanics and interactions lol. Kind of the definition of humor that's locked to a specific audience.
@@Rynjinivar do you even hear yourself pull up an example and explain it because I would very much like to know if I had to be in rarrans place id go balistic too cuz unless you can somehow explain how both chat and farfa is not being literal it literally looks like rarran is getting shit on with the most delusional arguments
@@gamingzone_8142 please for the love of god like explain how hes being sarcastic or how someone like me can tell thats just a silly little character he’s doing - like what indication farfa gives that someone like me can know I shouldnt be taking his words seriously Cuz otherwise “its just farfa being farfa” just means “its just farfa being profoundly stupid”
I fully agree with the learning graph and where Yu-Gi-Oh fails to entice new players. It's so very simple, you don't drop a first grader into a calculus class. Yes, they have a basic understanding of what a number is, but they are not going to understand anything they're looking at without going through the other grades first, which takes years to do and doesn't even guarantee they'll understand it even then.
Hi I'm someone who went from hearthstone to yugioh. I'm sorry that chat was harassing you. I think both streamers agreed with you and your opinions are valid.
I'm one of these weird Yugioh people and just saw this video in my recommendations. When I watched the video from MBT I somehow didn't even realize all the different names he used. Was nice laughing alongside you. To this point about "the decks you chose are some of the more easy ones to get into": It was kind of eye opening to see how surprised you seemed about this. But it's true. Dragonmaids and Salamangreat are on the rather linear side of decks and since they also have Structure Decks, they often are considered to be THE best choices to get into this game. It's just this really strange thing in this game that a Structure deck isn't really playable on it's own...rather you have to buy one three times and "somehow" figure out which of the cards are the actually interesting ones. As to the Farfa portion: I'm sorry that you had to deal with the toxicity and gatekeeping that is way too common in this community. The topic about keywords/ formatting of card texts is a nice example...Yes, it is a big hurdle that most cards are giant walls of texts. Even the way they are written is pretty inconsistent. If cards would be easier understandable, it would be easier to get into and even for seasoned players it would make for less headache. Simple concept. But I kid you not, every time this gets discussed, there are some people arguing "Nah, no need to dumb the game down. It's your fault when you can't read and comprehend big walls of texts in a matter of seconds and put them into perspective to the rest of the deck. And if you can't remember every single card by just skimming over it once, you're an idiot anyways."
I wouldn't call dragonmaids and salamangreat good for beginning players, dragonmaids have a lot of points where you can screw yourself over if you don't know what you're doing and salad is all combo lines you need to learn. As much as we all hate playing against it, decks like Eldlich, Runick stun and other floodgate turbo decks are the easiest way for new players to get in.
@@hurrdurrmurrgurr and guess what , it's teach you nothing, yes it's easy but you not growing at all, you just floodgates Andy's wait to flip your floodgate and win because opponent just tilt. It's like everyone said deck like dragon maid or salad actually a pretty solid choice just because it's not only teach you the basic premise of what Yu GI oh was being combo ball to the wall, also having merit to helping you grow as the duelist.
Like the problem is with the keyword we gonna have alot of it, and I rather having much simpler easy to dissolve like the ocg formating or even something better like rush duel formating, don't get me wrong yeah it's nice having something just read "when summons tutor 1 x card from the deck", but again we gonna have alot of since new weird shit mechanic gonna happen in Yu GI oh that may or may not bloated even the keyword.
@@hurrdurrmurrgurr That's true. But when you want to start playing the kind of deck most decks are, Salamangreat and Dragonmaid are good for learning in theory, because Salamangreat does a lot of different things, and Dragonmaid is simple. But honestly, it's not gonna feel like you're learning when you keep losing because those decks aren't very good anymore lol. Honestly, I think you should start with the whatever the best deck in the game is. Then you actually know if what you're doing is effective without having to worry about if it's the deck's fault you lost 10 times in a row.
Nah bruh, blood went crazy in the Farfa portion, he was immediately extremely hostile and derogatory because he couldn't understand simple points, and some sarcasm lmao.
I said it before in Rarran's original video and I will say it here as well. The main difficulty in YGO is that all (essentially) the decks are synergistic combo piles designed to ladder various effects into each other, which provides pretty much no good entry point for new players because you have to understand the way the cards synergize and can't just take them as you see them. Like, I've played a lot of TCGs (and tabletop games in general) and YGO is the only one where I have so regularly and aggressively hamstring myself by triggering effects in slightly wrong orders. And yes, some of this is just me being dumb at times. And also this is not say that you cannot play other TCGs badly or anything or that like playing handing a new play an Ironworks deck in Magic is gonna result in a better experience for them. It is just that the -way- you end up playing YGO wrong as a new player can be exceedingly frustrating because it is all combo play and there is no real "Red Deck Wins, go face aggro" equivalent to help keep new players low to the ground (but effectively actually playing the game) when they're learning. And to be clear. I am not good at YGO by any stretch of the imagination. But I -have- had fun and I -have- gotten those matches with real solid back and forth where I can see why people really fall in love with the game. I just think the core problem for onboarding new players is incredibly obvious and also very difficult to solve and want to reiterate that as somebody who has played a LOT of games over a LOT of years.
To be fair. I can actually think of a decent somewhat exception. Sky striker. I mean the pure one not the access code variant. A bunch of simple +1 effects. There are a couple others like that where it's pretty easy to figure out what they do and how to use them. But generally I agree.
Which is why we need formats and ways to play like MTGA that let people start small. If Dragonmaid was the most complex deck allowed in a format people would be able to handle it.
@@janehrahan5116playing sentouki/striker requires YOU to be able to know the inside out of your opp deck means you have pilot your opponent deck. You think it's easy? Absolutely not
yo my guy! creator-meta question: Any particular reason why this is on the second channel, I almost missed this upload and it's extremely interesting to see your thoughts on this - I'm generally way more into long form content, were you worried it wouldn't fit the more edited approach on the main channel? Excited to watch it, have a great weekend man!
One thing people keep asking for in Master Duel is alternate formats so new players, or people who don't like the massive combos of modern YGO could play that. Would be a better learning curve, and less word spam to go through to figure out what is happening, but they don't seem to care enough to give it to us. Although some IRL tournaments seem to be doing alternate format events. The people complaining you didn't finish the tutorial are coping hard and not understanding that no amount of tutorial is going to let you keep up with what is going on during your opponents turn in modern YGO. Farfa has a series where it's a tournament that bans the winning decks, and despite how many cards getting banned, there's still massive combo decks and First Turn Kills happening. Master Duel gave you a starter deck. The tutorial should have been how to play that deck at a basic level, then you duel other players with similar low complexity decks. Instead you went to PVP against people who seem to already know what they were doing with decent decks and had to sit through reading hundreds of words in a single turn, then try to figure how what to do against it. Keep in mind, IRL people would complain about Slow Play if you take too long trying to figure out what cards did and what to do. Master Duel makes things easier with button prompts and highlighted cards/text (sometimes) and it still feels like you spend most of your first few days playing reading dozens of cards a minute trying to remember what they all do. Side note: I think the only reason YGO doesn't use Keywords despite the desperate need for them is that they don't want to reprint cards with updating wording, or reformat the text on thousands of cards currently in Master Duel/Duel Links. Your opinion based on the first few hours of playing is what's going to happen to the vast majority of players who aren't just casually playing with friends. Maybe if more people tried YGO and came to a similar conclusion and made videos/streams about their new player experience, Konami might actually try to make a change. But probably not.
On the key words issue: Konami already implemented some key words over the years. "Excavate x" used to be worded "Pick up the top x cards of your deck", "banish" used to be "remove from play", "this card deals piercing damage" used to be "when this card attacks a defense position monster, it inflicts battle damage".
@@pete5516 Of course there isn't, we're talking about Konami here. Maybe they added like a page in the rule book I haven't read that in years. It does have the upside that those card texts affected by these changes are a bit more comprehensible if you know your vocabulary.
@@nigerianprinceajani yeah that’s fair, I don’t really see why they wouldn’t include it that seems like the absolute bare minimum (I am criticising both wizards and Konami here and tbh they both deserve it) but it seems like designing card games effectively is hard. What isn’t hard is to hire some people who know your game well enough to make a decent, up to date tutorial…
About the illusion of choice: Say you are playing against mage OTK but you are playing pirate rougue, you already lost and there is nothing you can do to win this game but you still get to play cards and attack but you never actually could play the game because the result would be the same doesn't matter what you did.
1:18:53 saying "we don't NEED new players" is the dumbest possible thing. it's like saying "our game is dying anyway. why would you wanna play it?". even the most popular game loses players every day, so a niche game needs new players the most.
100% cap that a small portion of people look stuff up online when playing a game they are new to. Huge Cap. I'd argue that like...70% of people probably look at least something up online when playing a new game. Whether that is Builds, Tier Lists, Deck Building, Tutorials, Locations for Secrets or Loot, Glitches, Mods, and so on. There is no way this man is trying to say only like...20% (looking at his ms paint graph) of people look stuff up online when playing a game. Now mind you he said "Amount of people who look up content for the game" not "Amount of people that look up help for the game." Even if it was only just help related things like Tier Lists, Builds and Tutorials that would still be so much larger then 20%.
Okay... Just going to point this out. YuGiOh did not aim to be like any other card game. Cause the game was not made to be a game first. It was cobbled together post-introduction in a manga. It is unapologetic in this regard. You need to take only the most basic understanding of card games and toss out the rest. It is fine if it was too much, not fun, etc. If he started in the synchro era, he probably would have been fine. But as Xyz, pendulums, and links were added, the game also had power and effect creep. Starting fresh requires at least a few months of careful study for the most basic decks. Those that can compete anyway.
Literally just not true. Yu-gi-oh was 100% a cute, shitty magic clone initially. Rarran would probably have a great time playing goat right? The synchro era of which you speak is definitely when an identity started to be carved out for the game. Edison is arguably about the time when we stop being able to jump right into a card game like yu-gi-oh and just "play"
@@YeahTheDuckweed It can't be a Magic clone. It is more accurate to say it is loosely inspired by Magic. Nothing about the two games have anything to do with each other. Monsters only have 1 round of combat in YuGiOh with big number flatten little number, no matter how small the difference. They always defend your life points. Monsters never become exhausted. There is no mana system. There are no key words. Etc. The best you can say is there are distinct card types and some cards have effects that are similar to the other game.
@Linkfan001 what you just described is a version of magic that requires some serious fleshing out haha Atk > def: simpler than magic Defending life points: thank goodness for that. Games wouldn't last long enough if they made watts in 2002 No exhaustion: true but there was trap hole No mana: true but there was the normal summon, and we're working with the "once per turn" system in the year of our lord 2023 No keywords: see exactly "piercing" (it's a sad state of affairs) All that and it was still conceptualised as a molasses-pace fantasy grindfest that was just never projected to be as successful as magic. And it wouldn't have been
@@YeahTheDuckweed or a game that is quite clearly not trying to be Magic but utilize the barest bones for its own purposes since the manga it came from was about "high stakes kids games." Something inspiring something else does not mean the two have to act on any way similar. That is okay.
@Linkfan001 tbf yu-gi-oh the card game was based off of specifically the shadow game that was a card game that was particularly popular ay. But I don't think at the time anyone who made a card game at the time had any idea how *not* to be inspired by magic right? Obviously it's ok; it happened
Legit the only way I got into Yu-Gi-Oh was playing progression with my friends during lockdown. Only one of us was slightly knowledgeable of the game, and it took a long while to learn, but its the best way to actually play it. You learn what came out when, have an understanding of the power creep that progressively happens, and also the history of the game. Master Duel is not the best when it comes to teaching, because you have to speed read 25 years of card text in order to understand anything. Meanwhile with MtG you only need to understand the last few sets. YGO is a time investment that streamers or casuals can't just jump into without a handhold, and that sucks.
33:00 The problem with introducing keywords to the game is that effects are so different and complex that keywords would not help as much and potentially make the game even more complex
I don’t play yugioh because it’s complex. I play it because I like how archetypes turn deckbuilding into an art, much like how the anime portrays it as an expression of each character. But it is a terribly complicated and and hard to get in to unless you do something like a progression series or know a guy who played far back enough to understand the game.
There are a ton of interesting archetypes, but the power creep has reached such absurd levels only a fraction of them are actually competitive. For a game that boasts no rotation and 20k+ cards, only maybe 400 of them see play in any given format (and that's probably a high estimate). That's fine when you're playing with friends, but for playing in a competitive environment, no, you don't get to express yourself, because as skilled as you are, you're not going to be able to beat a decent level player with a trash deck.
So there was an interview with Richard Garfield the creator of MTG. He had mentioned that there is a scale from low complexity to high complexity if I remember right and he was comparing checkers to chess among other games. The higher the complexity the more of a barrier there is to your game to bring new players in. You inject into your game a chance of randomness as it gives that .1% chance for the new player to win even against the best. In a card game sense that can be the number of cards hand size, deck size, resources, how many cards drawn... It can even be something as simple as adding a coin flip or a die roll. When you strip that away you get a game that yes is a good game to play, but the curve is just too much for someone fresh to experience to some people the same pleasure you get when you play your favorite game.
One thing I haven’t seen anybody say is there aren’t new players on master duel. If you’re going into ranked at the bottom you’re going up against people who just crafted the tier 1 meta deck and are ready to start climbing or someone who has experience who is coming back after a hiatus. Only when you get to the middle of the pack do you really see any diversity in strategy and more rogue decks that aren’t turn 1 negate everything you do on your turn. I try to comfortably sit in gold and that’s where I don’t often run into tier 1 stuff but I do still have to fight for the win with my midrange deck. There is just a very small conceivable chance that you will get matched with someone else learning the game starting out.
Personally, I’m a Diamond 5 in Legends of Runeterra, Infinite around 2700 CP rank in Marvel Snap, and Diamond 1 in both Hearthstone and Yu-Gi-Oh! Master Duel. I think if you don’t know your cards or your opponent’s cards, it’s on you. You have time to read them, but you just ignore it and then blame everything else. I think a non-complicated card game suits you better, where you just read the cards once and remember them forever. In Yu-Gi-Oh!, you need to constantly learn new things because you never know when some lunatic psychopath might bring out a 20-year-old card to mess up your gameplay. So, you need to read not just your cards but all the cards. //i edit for easy to read cause my first language not english so yeah sorry
Just wanted to mention a small point around 19:25 when someone in chat says stuff about micro steps and Rarran responds that he understood the phases. He's misunderstanding what the chat is saying. There is the battle phase. But in the battle phase, there is also "the battle step" which in itself is broken down into: attack declaration, the Battle Step, the Damage Step, before damage calculation, damage calculation, after damage calculation, and the end of Damage Step. Different cards and effects can or cannot activate depending on which SPECIFIC part of the battle step you are currently in. That's part of what the chat is saying at this point. You think you understand the battle phase, but in reality there are 7 different mini steps that you go through each battle that you don't even realize happen most of the time. Yugioh starts complicated as hell, and then you think you get it, but you've only just started.
@@tbaggins5349 1) Ain't a shame really, who cares?! If he doesn't enjoy the game, he doesn't enjoy the game. Grow up Yugi-babs 2) What does your comment have to do with mine?
The decks playing and pacing themselves so differently bc there isn't a core tempo resource like mana is a big appealing thing, but it also gives Yu-Gi-Oh the exact problem of telling someone to learn a fighting game character. That being said, Konami has also been ass at giving beginners resources. Hopefully the new two-player starter deck coming out will inform the design of official guides. Right now, papeer structure decks don't come with a rulebook and the rulebook PDF you can read on the official website is outdated. Instead of updating the rulebook they link a BLOG POST with changes in it.
I learned ygo alone by watching a lot of tutorials and reading a lot of articles on tcg websites. It took nearly as much studying as a 200 level undergrad course. I do really enjoy the game but trying to convince any of my friends to put themselves through that is just never going to happen. the only ppl getting into the game these days are either ppl that have a lot of experience in other card games (even still means so little w how unique ygo is) or stem major types that legit enjoy the research almost as much as the actual playing. I had two accounts in diamond before they released Master rank and I still can't play one of these full gas combo decks even w years of experience. I have two or three decks that I know I like that I stick to. The argument the game is not too complicated is completely insane. It just is.
personally, the way I got back into Yugioh at the start of Covid was rank 10 Trains and then Crusadia with Kaijus. a rank 10 trains deck can sometimes work even just when clicking buttons and Crusadia's style of straight forward nature means it's relatively easy to play as it's mostly just laddering to equimax otk
I unironically learned how to play from the anime. Well, mostly, I had to figure the rest out by myself, but the most part of the basic knowledge came from the anime
Real, I never understood people coping that it isn't that hard or even that it's easy. For new players, it's like a new language. Not unlike you, someone who went to plat on release and then diamond before master (stopped playing for a while ever since that update), I have a handful of decks I stick to because I took the time to learn and play with them and I still don't have all the interactions and mechanics memorized. Luckily, when you aren't playing competitively you can get away with just a normal understanding of your deck and the interactions IT encounters. But there is an issue that you need to learn basically a baby judge quiz just to play casually without issue.
Yep the only types of people that I know that have stuck with master duel past the "I want to play the cards from the anime" phase are the studious or hyper competitive types. Because yugioh requires an overwhelming amount of knowledge to play your own deck let alone figuring out wtf your opponent/s are doing.
YGO, a lot of the complexity after you got the basic foundation of the game is deck building, tech cards and extra deck choices. A new player isnt going to understand that Lullaby of Obedience is a good tech atm, cause everyone is splashing Kashtira Fenrir into decks. But only for hail marry blow out. Or even some cards are confusing, like Small World. I guarantee someone could read that card 10 times and still dont know wtf it does. Though I still like the game. Its one of those games you play if you really enjoy doing your opponent dirty.
its something unbeknownst to any new or casual players who aren't either theory crafting or being posted up with other relavant talk about the meta game and newest cards to be on top of the game. Even the most bland of tech cards we all just brush off as yeah whatever, any player will see raigeki at 3 in the tcg and say "how the fuck is that allowed". they wouldn't understand why TTT is popular if change of hearts is in the game or why lightning storm is used of their counterparts since they just dont know how far the game has advanced. it's become so advanced, that only those in the know of Lullaby, would pick out some super old card that weas so old it was made without intent of being playable against said meta. I only knew of Lullaby from duel links, and I still had to take a second why it was being ran in a Kash deck i just went up against. The new player experience is brutal in the tiniest of ways that would mostly be overlooked, but this talking hopefully gets brought up even more since the one time it was brought up during the komoney board meeting
I've been playing yugioh since around 2012, so I do think it's easy to grab new cards and figure out what a deck does and try it out over time and build a good deck alone... but you're totally right, it is imposible to get into the game by yourself, I got into the game because my friends played it in high school, so I learnt with them, ultimately the game is sadly dying, and I don't think it can be fixed, because what makes me and a bunch of other people to love the game, is also what makes it unaccesible... also, I'm saddened by the chat you got in that stream, you def got to see the toxic half of the yugioh community, I apologize on the behalf of the other half.
The most annoying thing about yugioh to me is that EVEN without changing all its flaws, chaos, and essay-level reading, they STILL COULD make the new player experience 1000x better if they really tried
yeah they just dont care anough, most creators are affraid/dont want to straight up say it, but its just that the company never cared enough, or almost any amount at all
@@zanki9838 its so fun, i wish new players were more easily exposed to edison format so they could experience the joy of the tutorial ACTUALLY teaching you the game 😭 its the perfect way to get introduced to yugioh in general
@@zanki9838you ask master duel to give tcg banlist when it managed by Konami jp? Are you serious? The closest you can get it infernity ocg format And oh boy you're not going to like launcher summon at 3.
Both MBT and Farfa's video's were great reactions to your content. Both had great criticism and seemed like interesting perspectives on the scope of the game. Although Rarran did his best to watch the videos it seems like people in your chat take what Rarran says to face value and not see what he did was trial a new game and how it didn't work out. As plain as that. Rarran do you man, play what you want. But i don't like watching you argue with people. Just do you. I probably won't be able to watch another live stream if he gets like this again. Step away, and don't sweat about other people. As a Yugioh fan, as a fan of many card games, we all get heated and need a break.
About that last part at least imo its not something easy to do. because as a content creator he needs to make content that people want to watch(which still isnt easy because you literaly cant please everyone) and he does that type of stuff for a living but still as a streamer he needs to interact with the chat he has and there are moments when he needs to adress some problems. i can see why you dont like to see rarran argue with his chat but unfortunetly in this video its not that easy if you're dealing with such toxic community. As you said he's tried his best but didnt well. In short i can understand and somewhat agree with you but thats something complicated to do (at least imo) anyway just wanted to give my 2 cents about it and dont worry i dont disagree with you because i can see your. I hope that rarran will manage it all in a way that he sees as something right and that he'll have enjoable time with whatever he plans to do next. And i wish you a nice day or night and sorry for big block of text 😅
@NevirSurrender I don't want him to feel like his fanbase is full of toxic people. When he got to the point of telling his followers to leave his channel, he was very sad.
@szymonj9377 Of course, the content is part of the controversy. To make content is to fight the internet, just saying he should separate himself from chat, at least for content he feels will make him upset. I feel like this video would be better if he had no chat and it was edited down a bit.
The whole "You'd never play against a Pro player as a noob" reminds me of the time in 2015 when I played against Ek0p at DreamHack, like face-to-face. All because HTC wanted to promote their new phones. Shame I can't find the video.
About the Ilussion of choice comparison, imagine this scenario: 2 Players fight against each other, both have armies but one has an A-bomb. Meaning the winner is clear, in HS it takes him 8 turns to use his bomb, giving you the Illusion of having a chance to win because you took like 50% of his army but you will lose anyway, so wasting your time. In yugioh the other player can bomb you in turn 1 ending the game before you did anything but he would won anyway but without wasting yout time.
Near the end of the video, I was def tilted from chat and I misunderstood farfas point about "The Illusion". Im sorry for making a bigger deal than it is
@MoreRarran will you be posting the day 2 of magic VOD? Can't find it on your channel.
Would've been weird not to get tilted at those comments lol.
Was gonna say, I see what they're onto. Actually having windows into parts of the game that you enjoy every once in a while is far less likely to turn away new players than just getting comboed and set up on in a 5 minute cutscene. You're watching a movie trailer to your loss as a new player in ygo. I think him phrasing it as "an illusion" instead of just saying you get to participate in a game more kinda gave it an accusatory inflection, lol.
Overall I think it's good that this is getting some attention. I'd imagine playing ygo now is like piloting a freaking Gundam suit in a card deck. Like the feeling of piloting a complex machine is kinda the epitome of anime feel in a real life hobby. But yeah, it's behind a lot of discarded ideas and a slower, more palatable package. It just kinda leaned into that "must be this tall to play" scenario as things moved on. I think it'd be really hard to pivot back to a more palatable game with where it's at. It's just far too power crept unless they start majorly incentivizing older, much more low power formats.
how mature of you, but for real i honestly was worried about you raging out. keep it cool my friend !
@@mz1bz emotions flowing when you're making yourself super visible to strong opinions does stuff to people. I have definitely felt like Ram Ranch(😉) here is of the more reasonable sort of people, just a tough crowd and a sensitive topic for many. I think a lot of people nowadays think gaming culture war shit is bogus
MBT coming up with a new name for Rarran each time he mentions him by name is absolutely hilarious.
That's what MBT does he's freaking hysterical
I literally didn't notice until now lmao.
The absolute best part is that I watched MBT's entire video, having watched Rarran several times, and it's just something that he so casually does all the time for different people/cards that I literally didn't notice until Rarran said something that he was doing it.
Rarran's new name is Hidden Valley Raranch and no one can convince me otherwise.
@@WavemasterAshiRastafarian
Rarran Made a tactical error by not jangling keys while discussing Farfa's video, chat would not have been combative at all.
One of the best MBT moments ever. I have that clip downloaded haha
I love rarran finding out in real time that MBT is one of the naturally funniest people on the internet but nobody knows cause he only ever plays yugioh
Yeah, I’ve said it before but MBT is like if a theater kid were funny and cool. By far the funniest YugiTuber, it’s not even close
@@Trynottoblinkonly yugituber I watch! And I don't even play yu-gi-oh!
@@YeahTheDuckweed If you're not into Yugioh I would also recommend the Yugituber "Rata [RANK10YGO]". Even if you don't care about the card game, his edits and sense of humor are very entertaining.
@@Trynottoblink funny, i guess, but cool? Bruh you must be 16 or smthing
Absolutely. If MBT hadn't pigeonholed himself into Yugioh content, he could have been huge. Of course, I get the impression that he doesn't really care, and he sticks with Yugioh content because that's what he enjoys.
I got back into yugimons after watching Cimo's entire progression series, it was like watching the game evolve from cavemen to acid trip in real time.
Exactly. This is the way.
and playing it felt like being a caveman on an acid trip
I would say it's more like Ancient Warfare to HACKERMAN.
The biggest failing of MBT’s video is that he forgot his usual disclaimer about the Average Farfa Viewer. That would have helped Rarran SO much 😂😂😂
Joel
Joel
Joel
@@TheRealHiboman You guys called?
@@StarboyXL9 🔑🗝️🔑🗝️🔑🗝️🔑
I’m jingling them, don’t worry
12:10 Clarifying the difference between "he did not have fun" and "he didn't get a chance to have fun" is like the difference between "negating the effect" and "negating the ACTIVATION of effect"
Twin Saber Behavior Detected
He forgot to 1st activate Branded Lost so his fun activation is not negated 😂
or get Ashed anyway 😅
If the activation is negated, you get to use your "can only activate [this card's name] once per turn" cards again. Just like Rarran tried Edison format with Cimooo where he got a second chance to have fun at this game.
Perfect analogy right here.
I know this is an old ass comment now but that is a perfect way of describing it. Well said.
We done it boys, we explained a live situation with yugioh clause
First half of the vid: take a shot every time Rarran gets called something else.
Second half: take a shot every time a graph is drawn
is it still a graph if there are no axis
@@chenkaixiang2455 mate, I ain’t got time for big philosophical questions…
@@chenkaixiang2455 I have time to get into philosophical questions. A graph with no axis would be called an conceptual diagram, compared what you are imagining a quantitative diagram. Other types of conceptual diagrams are for example Flowcharts which also have no hard numbers to direct the arrows.
@@chenkaixiang2455 shitty graphs do still be graphs.
@@chenkaixiang2455 we are too drunk to answer this shit
For some of your reactions you said they were treating it as a good thing, but what they were actually trying to imply was "Oh no, its much worse than that hun"
Yeah, I thought that the sarcasm is really obvious from Farfa but apparently not.
@@Eis_Coldits only obvious if watch him all the time, turns out to most normal people hes an asshole
@@rickmel3883 sarcasm usually is obvious from his voice tone
@@rickmel3883No since he said you have no idea as in "Yea this is just the beginning of the bad..."
I just want to say, your most recent attempt to get into YGO was PERFECTLY timed. Recently, Konami's shareholders brought forth concerns that the game wasn't attracting new players. The fact that your attempt came so soon afterward and actually showed what it was like for an average potential new player feels like a big deal to me, because the waves in the community seem like an understanding that there actually might be problems that can be fixed.
I think the problem falls on Konami to fix, but it doesn't feel like the community is helping.
Also I don't understand why yugioh players are so against changing or adding new rules. Like you can still have advanced format exactly as it is now AND alternate ways to play, but people freak out when you mention rotation or a summon limit. You don't have to kill advanced to have another way to play.
@@StefanDillandMarcRIP Yeah, literally every argument against rotating formats is "I think I'd like what we have now better." As if people would stop using old cards even if Konami wanted them to.
@@StefanDillandMarcRIPSummon limits should have been in the game a looong time ago. Would have kept the game from becoming the clusterfuck it is now.
@@StefanDillandMarcRIPagreed. There has definitely been some elitist sentiment in the yugioh community for over a decade now. “Hah, our game is so complex and deep, you just aren’t able to understand it because you play baby games” seems to be the feeling I’ve encountered whenever people feel overwhelmed entering the game. And yet there’s still a sizable portion of the player base that freaks out whenever a new summoning method is introduced, either saying it doesn’t make any sense or is broken.
@@DSmith3279Absolutely fucking disagree, anyone who actually has any enjoyment in the game will tell you the same, you want a summon limit? Use Maxx C, a card that EVERYONE, apart from psychopaths, agree is unfun and completely bullshit. Summon limits do nothing but make Yugioh boring and slow.
rarran was like "I understand the damage step" oh my sweet summer child.
Literally no one understands the damage step except dkayed
I think his retort even was "I understand the battle phase, I get phases", which immediately indicates he did in fact, not understand the damage step.
Good job, Konami
@@ibra8096 Subterror players do.
You need to learn how Flip monsters work as well as atk/def modulation effects.
@@haruhirogrimgar6047 Damn this video was ages ago lol. Rarran actually understands yugioh to a casual level now
I responded on your comment for MBT's video, but I'll also put it here with timestamps relevant to this video. That is, every nickname MBT calls you:
1:27 Ra-Ran
1:57 Rar-Ran
2:46 Ray-Ran
3:07 Old Rarry
4:23 Mr. Ran
5:17 Ran-Ranch
7:42 Hidden Valley Ra-Ranch
9:03 RarXD
11:56 Rarrinago
12:40 Ruh-Ran
16:00 Rastafarian
17:35 Rat Race
I love how I watched the original video, the reaction stream, and now this video and there were STILL new ones I didn’t catch lmao
Just here to mention as a past glomper, it's "Rawr xD" with a W in there
Here from the MBT community. Regarding MBT's last point about resource systems in YGO, I think he brings up the cards themselves as an example due to how few-and-far-between playable draw cards are in YGO. It's why Maxx C is so centralising of a card; seeing 3-4 cards into your deck with pretty much no drawback is incredibly impactful on how a game will turn out, simply due to how much more the typical YGO card does in comparison to other card games.
Other cards games are the same way though. Drawing a card is the strongest action you can general take. It's called card advantage in magic and is huge to improving and part of resource management.
I think his point is that all games have cards as resources. HS is probably a bit less concerned on card advantage as a drawing and discovering is a bit more common, but it is definitely still a thing.
I would argue that the lack of playable card draw in YGO is due to the lack of an actual resource mechanic. You can print good card draw in MTG and Hearthstone because having more cards doesn't translate to more plays, it only translates to more options.
Also, unlike most Magic that I've seen, the entire deck in YGO is a turn-by-turn resource. A YGO player has to genuinely think about decking themselves out or completely running out of gas at every juncture way more than other games.
@@StefanDillandMarcRIPin Yugioh, a card that permanently gets rid of a quarter of your deck to draw 2 has seen consistent play. Drawing is strong in all card games but its extra strong in yugioh
@kingnewgameplus6483 yes I understand. It's stronger due to the fact of no resources to play the cards. Other games still have card advantage though.
The strength may very as drawing 1 in yugioh maybe be equal to drawing 2 I. Magic, but it's still resource management in any card game.
It's a fundamental part of card games. The more cards you have the more stuff you can do. That's in literally every game.
I think the fundamental problem of approaching Yugioh as a new player is that everyone approaches it based off what they know from other card games when it's literally impossible to correlate anything from any card game with Yugioh. No mana, no colors, no keywords, the only correlation is basically just there's a battle phase and even with that, Yugioh does it so differently than any other game with a damage step, damage calculation, etc. It's really more like a fighting game where you kind of can mess around and learn on your own, doing combos but it's not until you watch someone else play it and the combos just click and you're like "ohhhh i kinda get now!" it's very difficult to jump in and learn on your own.
Comparing yugioh to fighting games is pretty accurate, that half the fun is actually watching how high the opponent can combo on you lol
@@juliuschuang6098 it's so true and how a top tier player switches up their combo mid combo like yugioh even the slower decks are pretty combo-y and trading blows with your opponent that it's very difficult to enjoy it if you're used to traditional card games
It's more like a coin flip simulator.
@@juliuschuang6098 maybe that's how some came up with the VS archetype lol
Actually, master duel could probably afford to take more cues from fighting games. Even if beginners dont understand crossups, hotboxes and hurtboxes, they can at least see the health bars and watch the characters jump around. Master duel is actually kind of worse to follow as an outsider since the cards just randomly blow up or not blow up for seemingly no reason, and it's virtually impossible for a spectator to understand who's winning. At least in the tcg you can actually see the players shuffling/searching and cards going into the graveyard and back. Perhaps better UI design such that a high level turn is more visually apparent what is happening would be good for the game.
Rarran losing his shit over MBT's purposefully bad pronunciations is the thing I live for XD
I would love to see some videos with MBT. He's not only entertaining, but he also has pretty good insight into the field of card games, so he might be pretty interesting for an advanced version of rating cards or something like that.
Face value what Farfa said was even if you horribly lose in magic, hearthstone, or most other TCGs you at least get a few turns to play since you're usually just summoning one card due to mana and passing. In YuGiOh you summon everything turn one so you have no chance to play anything, leaving the feeling that you literally didn't get to play.
Yeah exactly.
Rarran was already triggered before this came up, but they were agreeing on almost everything overall.
Rarran was too salty to see this unfortunately and started to pull up another aspect that didn't directly fit
Imagine being a grown ass man who LITERALLY READS CARDS FOR A LIVING yet you couldn’t comprehend that.
Dude acted like a massive baby anything far said heart wasn’t as complicated and went off on rants that complicated don’t equal better lol ? Ok far didn’t say it was or wasn’t just stated facts. I agreed with everything til I started seeing he was getting butthurt from any generalization of hearthstone.
I'm glad he enjoyed MBT's response. And I was even happier to hear you would be open to the idea of collabing with him. I think whether it's just a casual one off collab or a series(maybe where he can teach you yugioh at a digestible pace) it would be hilarious and help cross more players a viewers between communities.
Mbt needs to be featured on a "yugioh player rates hearthstone cards" collab
@@jamontoastman9the problem is MBT has played a bunch of different card games, and often. He's familiar enough with Hearthstone that it wouldn't be content.
I really don't think he's ever gonna play Yu-Gi-Oh again. Maybe in like 2 years when he's looking for something different to try but right now it seemed so unfun that there doesn't seem to be any reason to try again.
@@cactusguy4363 But that is what makes it fun. Everyone else that does a "rate the X card game card" only plays one card game. It'll be different to see the opinion of someone that has knowledge on every game.
@amuro9624 I think this is doubly true after the farfa chatters were giving him hell on that stream, followed by farfa and mbt getting into a heated discussion about farfa takes on Rarran's video. Probably gnna scare him away from yugioh all together.
I think Yugiohs complexity and Nuance can be extremely fun, the problem is that you can only enjoy this after already hqving lots of experience
Its just so new player unfriendly - like personally i only kinda was able to get into it cuz I was super late to the party and decided to just not play link cards and even when i chose to play a deck with links it took like a month and even then I had to practice my combos it is just so hard to pick up
@@rantbot9176 its more or less the nature of a game being so different from all its contemporaries
like you sorta have to go in expecting a game completely different from any other tcgs because people dont yugioh for a mana system surrounded by a different flavor of tcg, they play it because yugioh is just so unlike everything else
that beign said i think finding an archetype or deck to get attached to really helps, because yugioh is so flexible in deck construction you can build upon that single deck that you really like adjusting and tweaking it as you learn to play the game
in rpg mechanic verse its like learning to dungeon crawl with the right weapon/character, if you dont vibe with it its not gonna be pretty
Ah good old stockholm syndrome
@@rantbot9176 link is simple i thing, it's not ever pendulu or syncro pendulum or xyz pendulum
@@PuchuKt It's not Stockholm Syndrome. I've been playing the game since the boomer days and honestly, the game is just different from anything else. Back then it was trying to squeeze resources with every card, earning every +1 in card advantage until you won. Then the DARK and Synchro era came where decks became stupidly fast but not quite like the modern era. That was exciting too because you got to do powerful bullshit but one false move and you could lose. Then the proceeding eras was basically a hybrid of the boomer era + the early Synchro era where decks can do dumb stuff but you had to grind sometimes to win equal matchups.
Even as someone who has casually played YuGiOh throughout the years deck building is one of the most daunting things.
Just be a netdecker. there are way smarter people out there that poured hours into perfecting a list no reason to waste your time building when someone has already done all that work for you.
@@RandomGuyCDN but deck building its the best part and the most complex one, I have tons of hours into master duel and figuring out that I can use Diviver of the herald to summon Alphan in super Quantal was the most mind boggling thing of my life and wouldn't be nearly has fun if had just netdecked. Not saying that you shouldn't netdeck just that is fun to be found in building decks that you dont know the meta build.
@@RandomGuyCDN if you netdeck you don't learn about the nuances of your deck. It sucks. Like playing MMOs with a guide
@@HazeEmry It is really hard to learn the nuances of a deck without net decking in Yugioh. It is a lot better to get a template/structure deck, test it a bunch. Figure out what isn't working, then looking through ways to fix that through either reading through the database, or looking how other people build the deck.
I do agree deckbuilding is super fun. But making a Frankenstein's Monster of other people's lists to cater to your tastes is also super good for learning.
@@haruhirogrimgar6047 why not just look at all the cards in an archetype first and start figuring stuff out from there? The Frankenstein decks can come later. First, read. Next, build a rough deck and play against a friend or ai. Idk dude, making a deck from scratch is way more fulfilling than just stealing a list online
I think the biggest problem with keywords in Yugioh is that there are many effects in the game where it could be almost exactly the same effect, but changing a single word in that sentence could change how that effect interacts with other cards. For example, if a card requires you to discard 2 cards (not cost) to be able to do an extra effect, there is a difference between whether you discarded "those cards" or discarded "them." The exact word choice matters too much that if they wanted to make a keyword for certain types of effects, they'd have to make variants on that keyword to represent the different types of interactions.
Yugioh would need to streamline and probably have a rules update to resolve. I've played Magic since 1995 and the game has had multiple major rules updates some of which completely changed how some cards actually functioned etc..but streamlined the game into a more intuitive play experience. Back in the day Yugioh seemed to settle on "no keywords" as a way to differentiate itself from others TCG's "hey intimidated by needing to pick up keywords to play a card game, well we don't have any" and that worked for awhile until it suddenly and rapidly didn't.
Ok, as a yugioh player you do not need a textbook in the cards to figure things out how they work or trigger. A great great for your issue would be:
Discard one card from hand then destroy a card on the field. (This is a cost)
@@novacelest6381 Well, for starters, I have no idea what "a great great for your issue would be..." means; I can tell the second "great" should be a different word, but I can't figure out what. For two, that is not a cost as the required PSCT to indicate that it is a cost is not there. For three, that does not have anything to do with my point; the card effect discarding not as cost was a part of the context, not the issue. Discarding for effect instead of cost allows your opponent to chain to your card and make it so you no longer have one of the two cards needed to discard before the card effect resolves, while if it was for cost, you'd have already discarded before your opponent can do anything, so the difference in "them" vs "those" does not come up. The card effect "Reveal 2 cards in your hand; discard those cards, and if you do, draw 2 cards" does not work the same as "Reveal 2 cards in your hand; discard them, and if you do, draw 2 cards" even though they look like they should be the same thing.
MTG has the exact same nuances yet it still uses plenty of keywords. For example the keyword exile was introduced precisely to distinguish between cards that go into your graveyard and cards that bypass the graveyard, due to how the graveyard itself can act as a resource in MTG, as it can in Yu-Gi-Oh. It's perfectly fine to have multiple keywords describing the same concept but with nuances, MTG has been doing it for decades.
Issue is YGO is just dumb
And its weird and overly complicated rulings are just an effect of the low effort that was put into "standardizing" the game and its rules over the years (in particular in the beginning)
The feeling it gives is that no one at Konami ever thought about the game going forward, they just kept coming up with stuff on the spot with no regards to the game's state outside of banlists, all while maintaining basically the same core mechanics we had 20+ years ago
Keywords would solve little to nothing still though, exactly because the game is not as standardized as MTG in a sense
We need official formats, a major rules change, or a full reboot, otherwise i cant even guess what the game will look like in 10 years from now
The change-up from the first reaction to the second is crazy lmao
chatters were just being more dense and annoying than usual during the second reaction.
@@DinoBat well yeah but he did get pretty angry fast by just simple comment that aren't even that toxic kinda a bad sign if you are a content creator idk.
Hard to watch after a while.
@@DinoBatdude really blocked a commenter bc he said he lacks attention span and there is some truth to that
@@DreYeonthat's valid if it's the first time that happened, but I'm willing to bet it was at least the 20th time he got told something like that on TH-cam comments, and that's low balling it
@@benjamintrap7227There's a difference between having a low attention span, and not having any prior knowledge or way to understand what's going on. Not to mention God forbid you open with no interruptions (which he wouldn't know what those are) then you're just watching how opponent play and doing NOTHING for 15 minutes. I'd fucking check out too
The reaction to the MBT video ends at like 18:00. Farfa made him go crazy wth
It wasn't Farfa (though his video is 40 minutes long), Rarran had to constantly pause to tell Twich chat to take a hike.
I think is better to say that chat make him go crazy instead lol.
it wasn't farfa, (rarran says so at the end of the video), it was the yugioh community in his chat.
it wasn't farfa, it was chatter that pretend to be "yugioh community" in his chat
I don't think Farfa's sarcasm was the "problem" here. It was chat talking bullshit and tilting him even further and not helping him to properly understand shit but rather keep backseat gaming and provoking even over and over.
As a viewer i would be so hyped to see you do a collab with MBT, even if its not yugioh related.
MBT is familiar with MTG, so maybe they could do stuff there.
@@four-en-teeMBT has played Battlegrounds on stream before
@@four-en-tee He is literally named after a Magoc deck, after all lol
@@Zakadingnah, everyone knows MBT stands for "My Bussy Talks"
@@Zakading Obviously he's named after Marincess Blue Tang
38:48 I love this moment so much. If you know Farfa you know he's 100% joking, and Rarran reacting like it's genuine is so fucking funny to me
Yeah he rly didn't take the joke did he 😂
The funniest part was that even a meme, that was also a fact considering how busted handtraps are.
But we must also admit that rarran was being naive thinking people wouldn't use busted decks on a *WCS*
They should really make it to where they give you Three Decks for completing a full session of a respective mechanic. Like maybe Traptrix after learning Traps, Xyz and Link.
Swordsoul for learning Synchro summon.
Shaddoll for learning fusion summon.
And I don't mean these would be half complete either I mean they are maxed out with the full version of each.
Now mbt and farfa has to react to his reaction of their reactions
Now THAT'S a resource loop.
@@paulieswalnut chain activated
gonna call the judge for causing a loop
@@SnailBot in yugioh it’s only illegal if it’s redundant, so even if every loop you only gain 100lp it’s allowed. The judge will allow this🤓
Yu-gi-oh is basically the Marvel vs. Capcom 3 of card games and that is why I love playing the game. Both games are very overwhelming for new players though.
Examples of archetypes:
Fnaf (fluffal)
Buddhistic shonen Doctor who (Visas Starfrost)
American football (U.A) and NASCAR (F.A.)
Dragons (so. Many. Dragons)
Undead (Vendread, Zombie pile, Memento, etc)
Linguistic nonsense combines into what I assume are warrior-shaped atom bombs (onoma&co. + Utopia)
Haunted armory that combines to another bunch of dragons (Phantom Knight)
Dante’s Divine Comedy (Burning abyss)
Lovecraft (elder entity)
Castlevania (vampires archetype) (owned by Konami)
Shooter arcade game (B.E.S)
MMORPG (Generaider + Runic)
Fish in space (ghoti)
Spies (Spyral)
Karakuri [historical Japanese old robots] (Karakuri)
Romance of the three kingdoms (ancient warriors)
Emo satan (darklord)
*Anime story: Catholics (Dogmatika), furriest with guns (tri brigade), theater kids (despia), dragons (branded), robots (springans), Elecrticity (Springans), different robots (therion)*
Modern fictional monsters (danger!)
More furries with weapons (fur hire)
Plants (Naturia, Rikka, Aroma)
Sharks
HEROs
Isekai (Adventure)
Frogs
Birds
Statues (Megalith)
Lego
Monster hunters (nekroz)
Penguins
Gods (aesir, sacred beasts, divine beasts, generaider)
Walkyries
Hide and seek (melffy)
Robo birds (raidraptor)
Except MVC3 is way easier to get into and is fun from the get go. I can play against someone completely new at MVC, but with fg experience, without having to hand them over a study guide for them to read. The fundamentals are the same as any anime fighter. No one does, or is expected to do optimal ToD combos at the beginning. I had no trouble getting into it. Hell, Skullgirls is a way harder tag fg to get into imo, but it still isn't overwhelming.
If I was to compare it to any fg, it would be Blazblue because of how insanely diverse its cast is, but even then, they all operate, at their core, the same as any other fg. To be truly comparable to YGY, the game would need to force you to read the lore in its entirety from the glossary and watch several videos explaining it before letting you play.
YGY is truly one of a kind when it comes to the new player experience. The only game that barely comes close imo is DOTA2, but even then it's a lot more intuitive and fun when starting out.
This comment blew my mind. You're so right
@@samuelconnel2166 As someone who has played both MVC3 and Yugioh I 100% agreed.
@@samuelconnel2166 Here's the thing. A lot of old school Yugioh players got into the game thanks to the anime. That allowed them to come in with a fundamental understanding of how the game is played, even if the real game has completely different tactics, they can focus on learning game objectives instead of basic rules.
That doesn't happen anymore. In 2023, no one watches the anime who isn't already a fan of the franchise.
There are a few older cards that have 'keywords' in their text but then the keyword is immediately followed by an explanation of what it means.
I'm pretty sure that every single 'Gemini', 'Spirit' and 'Union' monster has a large portion of their text explaining what those keywords mean.
Better than expecting players to look up and memorize keywords if you ask me.
@@Bezaliel13at a yugioh player:
I undetermined what Flying as a keyword means.
I understand what Reach as keyword means.
Piercing is a keyword we already have in Yugioh.
We already use RoTA as a way to explain a generic search for a card of a particular (X).
Anything that adds a monster from GY to Hand is a Salvage like effect.
Anything that applies a "all cards sent to GY are Banished instead" is a Macro Cosmos to the average meta and casual YGO player.
How many archetypes have a Skill Drain like card?
We already have pseudo Keywords in Yugioh.
All that having actual keywords would do is mandate a shit ton of reprints for the erratas, and make cards that do the same thing, say they do that thing in the same way.
@@wickederebus
Sidenote: If it looks too long for you, just read the part before my Note.
Rather annoying how everyone uses the same super basic keywords for their examples. How about Rampage, Amplify, Intimidate, Banding, and anything else I can pull with a google? Not that you examples made sense *for Yu-Gi-Oh.* How some keywords from the actual franchise, like PARTING GIFT, SHARED FATE, SHOCK, BACKFIRE, or OSMOSIS?
Note: They were uppercased because I dragged them from yugipedia.
"All that having actual keywords would do is mandate a shit ton of reprints for the erratas, and make cards that do the same thing, say they do that thing in the same way."
No, for there is no way the over ten THOUSAND Yu-Gi-Oh cards can be summarized by a few keywords. Frankly, that statement is just dumb.
Not to mention keywords for archetypes, like CYBERDARK or CRYSTAL BEAST. I know you think it would be OK because players reference famous cards to refer to _similar_ Effects, so the keywords could be completely self-referential without you seeing anything wrong with it, but they just are not similar enough for that to make any sense, even ignoring how very many keywords would need to be made. Before you start, changing Toon Table of Contents to "Reinforcement 'Toon' card" would not prove they should try for a card with more than one Effect.
Having the game not use keywords meant Konami had to try extra hard to avoid cards having the same Effect with even the tiniest difference, so *no matter how much you try, yes **_try,_** to say* some cards have the exact same, that would not work no matter how many examples of cards with "Attack Force" you list. Seriously, the game has been anti-keywords.
@@Bezaliel13 cause ones like banding have been uncommon and good at bet and irrelevent at best. its better to maybe have to look up banding 1 time than have to read an essay of card text on every single card i read reglardless of function being identical.
@@wickederebus That's not all it would do. It would also greatly shorten the text on every card, and make it so that once you understand what a keyword does the next time you see it, on a different card, you can skip the lengthy explanation of what the keyword does as you already know it. Not using the keyword forces you to read the entire card every time in case there is a difference between that specific card and other card with similar effects, which lets face it is very often the case as both Yu-Gi-Oh and MTG have very similar mechanics with only minor nuances distinguishing between them, like the difference between putting a card into the graveyard or the exile pile in MTG. So rather than read the same text every time to find out whether a specific card is put into the graveyard or exile pile you just see whether it's a discard or exile effect by the keyword used.
I think a good start for Yu-Gi-Oh! is the Edison format. It has a competitive side (konami held events), a great community (there's an online page constantly uploading events, decks, and the like), a "paused" format (since it's a past format, no more cards will be added to the pool), and, most importantly, it's fun.
I wish you luck in this endeavour!
An issue with yugioh implementing keywords is that card effects differ in small but important ways, such as whether they target, how they resolve when parts of the effect fail, and what the restrictions are, there's more than 5 different "once per turn" conditions that all behave differently for instance. Theoretically, if we were to try to add "indestructable" as a keyword, it would only replace the effectively identical "cannot be destroyed" and would still have to specify what it can't be destroyed by, as it may be only monster effects, only opponent's card effects, only attacks, etc. Essentially, the issue is that there aren't many consistent effects to make into keywords ("search", "bounce", and probably a couple others would work), and if you try to make keywords for small parts of effects, you find that they usually already exist as 2-3 consistent words that describe that action (even if you haven't encountered it before) without having to memorize another keyword. ("What does excavate mean?" is itself a barrier to entry)
True, something I didn't think about that much. Still whack that we don't have bulletpoints though.
@@devinbannish1469makes me so sad. The ocg has numbered effects too
Having lots of effects that are almost the same but differ in small but important ways is kind of a design problem in itself.
@petrie911 Eh, sort of. I like all the differences, it makes things intricate, but yeah there's certainly a downside.
This is honestly my biggest bitching about the game. Forget everything else, while codewords make it easier for those of us in the know, its hell to even just explain them to other people.
As a yugioh player Rarrans Chat this video inflicted me with so much pain
28:56 yea it does there a huge difference between a card that says “ Target one card on the field and banish it “ and “ Banish one card one the field “ stuff like that barley scratches the surface lol
I’m of the opinion that the best way to learn yugioh without outside help is to look up a doomking balerdroch turbo decklist and learn from there. It’s the basic starting point for every zombie deck, is decently simple in concept (as the deck’s whole gimmick is sending the titular card to the graveyard and reviving him, like a zombie resurrecting), and once you learn it, you can throw in any archetype of zombie monsters to learn that archetype’s summoning mechanic while still having a recognizable list of cards that mesh well with your new cards. Shiranui for synchro, vampires for XYZ, vendread for rituals, mayakashi for links, eldlich for fusion and trap monsters.
This has all been very interesting. I think the important thing with Yugioh is guiding people to easier decks to begin with and having a tutorial based around a selection of competent, but simple decks that can gradually introduce new players. Salads and dragonmaids were terrible first decks. To be fair to Konami, they do release one deck every meta shift which is clearly designed for newer players.
Good example being Labrynth. You can make this into a casual stun deck, and slowly add cards to make it more powerful and complex.
That said, I think Duel links does a good job simplifying the game enough to make it accessible... but unfortunately duel links is a scam :,D
Ok this was clever haha
As a yugi boomer i actually got back into yugioh when master duel released. It actually took me a month to pick up modern yugioh but that was with looking at md tier lists. Building a tier 1 deck looking up how to play the deck, combo guides, etc
For memorizing cards by just seeing their images it takes an additional few months since there are so many archetypes. After that though you kind of have learned how to speed read cards and what parts of the text are relevant or not. You understand oh this card works like this other card.
It is not an easy game to get into. It is super fucking complicated where even people who have played for a while still misunderstand interactions. The "yugioh players can't read" meme is us making fun of ourselves at misunderstanding somwthing in one of the most complex card games to ever exist.
I agree with everything you said in the vid.
something else they don't really tell you about in Yugioh is BKSS. For those who read this and don't know what that is: "Because Konami Says So", it's a saying for when two or more cards have effects that are effectively the same/similar effect-wise, but Konami rules that they work in different ways during gameplay. (A now-fixed case of BKSS from when I played: "Fortune Lady Light" and "Earthbound Immortal Aslla Piscu" both have effects that activate when they leave the field and the terms of activation were worded exactly the same. However, for years Konami stated that if the monsters were face-down when they leave the field, Fortune Lady Light would activate, but Aslla Piscu would not. and just to be clearn, meta relevance of the example is unnecessary, this is just an example that wasn't fixed until around 2019 lol) Since I've been out of the game for a while, I am unsure if BKSS is still a thing, but I would hope it's been removed.
@@SageTigerStarthe only thing you can do is check with a judge before a tournament how they rule on that type of specific interaction.
@@Saixjacket or during the tournament if it doesn't come up beforehand. Sometimes you just don't know if one of those BKSS situations will come into play. It does kind of seem like they're getting around to fixing some older rulings to clear things up though. Good on them. :)
35:00 Rush Duels is a japanese exclusive variant (idk why) of yugioh that solves every problem rarran has with yugioh. Simpler effects, easier to read, same fast pace and tribute summoning actually matters. Also the card legibility is waay better.
TLDR: it's like the Hearthstone version of Yugioh.
There IS a video game version of Rush Duels, I think it's just called that, so it's not Japan only. But I haven't played it, only seen some and it looks more story-driven so might just be solo, if so doesn't really count.
And it looks like it will finally come to the tcg either end of year or start of new year. It's just unfortunately as far as it's gone in the anime. It still suffers from komoneys greedy and useless card design inadequacies. In which booster sets where practically only 30% of cards in a booster are actually useful or good in general.
I taught myself how to play when master duel came out. It was not fun. Only *now* do I find the game so fun. Half of my fun is building decks because I like to find stuff that works together and expresses my personality better
Honestly, making decks is the most fun thing in the game. And then testing it makes me wanna off myself
It wasn't like that for me at all, I picked a deck and learned it, then played it against other players, lost a lot, then started winning some, understood why I was winning, and started making and playing other decks from there. Yugioh isn't necessarily hard, but it's old and expansive, meaning you have to know a lot about the game.
One of the biggest lies in yu gi oh right here. Having the same hand traps as everyone else is not what expressing ones personality is
@@derpdadouch3654 Do you only play master duel?
@@derpdadouch3654 this is how to spot someone whos never been to any irl meetings or card shops
I've been watching you and MBT for a while now, really cool to see you both interact.
In YGO each archetype is basically its own minigame/resource. That's the appeal for veteran players but impossible to teach to an isolated casual player.
You say casual but how would we know if he's a potential future pro or casual when he got turned off because of the steep entry point? For all you know he could've been a top 8 advanced player but because the start was so unapproachable he got turned off at the start. (I play yugioh haven't played magic or hs but i see how fast this game has gotten from its inception so i understand the learning curve is unreasonable for a majority of people)
@@ibra8096Who cares if he's a potential future pro? If you are just getting into a game, you are gonna start out as a casual.
@@swittchbladeI think the idea is that saying "who cares about casual, this is for the hardcore gamers" (which may not have been what OP meant, but many other comments have expressed this idea) is that "in order to BECOME a hardcore player, you start off as casual. If the game is going to prosper, you need to have mechanics that foster the casual players and excite them enough to BECOME hardcore"
I agree with literally every point you've made but the one thing that is real annoying is that you think when someone says it's more complex, you think they're saying it's better. They make think it's better but at 1:09:00 when farfa is explaining the difference with HS and YGO you get mad triggered and say "that doesn't mean it's better" when everyone including your chat is telling you that he didn't say that. You've assumed that's what they mean. I watch you, mbt and farfas content and pretty much agree with all of you but that was a bad take.
and yeah the absolute heat at the end is such an overreaction to both the community and your chat, there are trolls but I was like scanning wondering how you were getting so mad at what they were saying and rarely was something just blatantly stupid. The start of this video was really valid and constructive but I feel that simple misunderstandings led to some really rude interaction to people who weren't coming at you at all.
@@Novakun it was all just a big misunderstanding that got way out of hand
@@Novakunmbt was really clear and concise. Farfa’s words and tone was not and chat made it even worse. Thats all there was to it - worse still that he wasn’t consistent with joking around or being serious while MBT sets the tone and keeps it while Farfa you have to interpret whether or not hes trolling or serious.
Not disagreeing at all but honestly the misunderstandings all came from farfa
@@rantbot9176 I agree to some extent but while farfa joked around, his basic comments of talking about the games complexity was still completely misunderstood on rarrans end here. He just said it was complex and it was interpreted as "it's better." His "illusion" point is a little more convoluted but because of the earlier meltdown, it was again overreacted to making the situation worse
@@Novakun i agree completely- they didnt address Rarran’s points and chat would use it to try to say Rarran is stupid and somehow Farfa’s points disprove Rarran
There is something fascinating about how fast people get mad.
I love how he kept up that energy though, I laughed so hard when he called Yugioh players delusional assholes 😂
@@NewtBannner Considering the insane takes they had both in his twitch chat, youtube comments, and on twitter, yeah, I think that's a fair assessment of the Yu Gi Oh players he has to deal with.
It honestly reminded me of Trump supporters with how in denial and unwilling to compromise vocal members of the community was, up to and including where even people "trying" to be helpful failed spectacularly to see what the original issue is.
@@AnonymousProffessionThat's just average farfa chat user, i could try to explain it, but u wouldn't get it, even farfa gets mad at his own chat bc how silly and dumb they can make some takes, not saying farfa promotes these comments, neither his chat is like a bunch of toxic people ( well at least most part of it ), but at some point, if you keep watching cl1Cir target Dante cl2 Dante target... troll despair, your brain just get replaced with monki flip.gif, and ain't too much you can do about it, if you know what I'm saying.
@@AnonymousProffession Clearly sure your profession is known. Don't just get weirdly political ,nobody knows what you're talking about unless they also have twitter installed
Welcome to humanity my friend! A lot of people just can’t comprehend the idea of decency and coexistence. Some people just wake up and choose conflict. It’s hilarious and also super fascinating to view as a person who doesn’t fall into that category
Farfa : A noob can't win against a pro and the end of the game is already decided when they start
Yogg-Saron : Hold up ! Wait a minute !
yeah manaless dredge let me steal a game off reid duke almost a decade ago now
luck genuinely can just GIVE you a match you dont deserve
It's also possible a pro plays a combo or control deck with bad or expensive draws against a noob playing agro, and the noob wins cause the pro just couldn't draw outs to the board spam and face damage.
@@chandgrit facts, straight facts
@@chandgrit That's what happened when mbt lost against clayman ahah th-cam.com/users/shortsbizpQMBn_to
@@chandgrit
So basically every card game.
as a yugioh player rarran is absolutely right about 95% of things he says, its insane what some ppl say in chat
Jup ygo players defending ygo because ranran has a little attention stpan is copium from chat at max level. Ygo is fckn hard. Just showed a friend of mine modern ygo. My friend played only until gx. And ge does not understand a sting. Meanwhile i showed him a MTG match an he could follow it
@@simplyyunak3189yep, and you know what, this game is just major waste of time if you're not playing tourneys or making content. Ygo is the same as battle royale game, you're watching other players playing for 90% of the time if you suck.
I know i'm late to the party but even if he is indeed right on the yugioh is too hard to understand i think that we have gotten away from just saying no in repetition to the opponent. Though i don't play that much master duel so perhaps it's different there
yeah, you do get that thing of "this card does this" by the art but it takes immersing yourself in the game for a few months, since there are so many different archetypes and things you can do. Also effects are just more wild in ygo, understanding the difference between monster effects in ygo vs how creatures have effects in other games is really important. Also, if you ever get btfo by a deck in yugioh, ask the guy playing the deck to explain it to you and youll get it in no time. Game looks a lot harder than it actually is, my biggest issue with ygo is that its a bit auto-piloty since you're always assembling so much stuff it just seems like a complete waste of time. We used to have plenty of fun with ygo back when it had more intuitive monster effects and I think in trying to create an identity ygo has lost what made people love it in the first place.
Big advantage of not relying on keywords nor doing set rotation is that they have to try to have cards be unique.
Shouldnt have to "immerse yourself" in a game for months just to understand it. Anyone can pick up pokemon, lorcana or magic and understand the game through a tutorial or basic rulebook. YGO does none of that.
In my experience as a noob in yugioh, the gameplay feels great once you get confortable with your deck and some key cards in the meta. I like that each hand gives me a puzzle to solve. The only thing I really dislike is that I have to study a lot before playing a new deck. I think it is a good game if you have time and pacience to read a lot.
Which imo is not what rarran did
The problem is if you’re a new player and you’re not watching videos/getting other people to help you it’s hard to get comfortable with the meta and there are so many cards that you play against that it’s extremely hard to understand what your opponent is doing if you haven’t played against that deck before. The amount of time you have to spend reading even all the meta relevant cards and getting comfortable with what they do is way too long and most of them are very unintuitive, especially compared to the other big card games where the cards are much more simple and the resource systems are much easier to understand.
@@naniimabot4674 I agree, the game is terrible depending on how you approach it. Everyone that wants to try it should be warned about it.
That's honestly a huge problem tbh. I love the game and all, but it doesn't have the right to demand hundreds of hours from you, for you to start having fun or understand what's going.
@@guilhermefratin9532this kinda goes back to the point that again the game isn’t accessible without watching videos or getting help. How are people supposed to know that the game can be really hard to get into without the above things? It’s really just not accessible to new players. I love the game especially in recent metas where there’s more back and forth (except kash ariseheart and unicorn type banish effect are terrible), but they’re also even more complex and harder to get into ever because it’s not just an infinite generic negate fest. You really have to learn what each deck does and exactly where to interact and even with tear in md being dominant, there are at least 5-10 other decks that are extremely competitive right now
If anyone is still confused about what Farfa meant by the "Illusion" of gameplay
It's that in resource-based card games even though you have no conceivable way of winning the game you don't just lose on the spot. The resource system slows down the pace of the game so that you can take game actions. But since you have no way of actually winning the game you're just playing to lose. In Yugioh a lot of the time you just know on the spot how you're gonna do against your opponent just by looking at your opening hand and seeing what they play. You just figure out if you're gonna lose or not faster.
His point does boil down to, you’re gonna lose against the world champion in both games, but in HS/MTG you at least get to play the game and feel like you’re doing something and have fun.
You get to play in both games its only that i hs its a game that takes 15 min and 15 turns and in yugioh 20 min and 3 turns its the same thing. All the intereaction that you could jave in a game you do in those 3 turns
It was kinda weird to see him hyperfixate on the noob vs world champion hypothetical XD
Farfa didn’t say it very well in fairness. He literally could’ve said this: in HS and MTG you get to actually play the game and have fun. In yugioh you don’t get to play.
@@lamalogi2376 he is so tilted and the fact that he is angry about the fact thats he was reading but he was not understand8ng i can see he just reads the words and none of them got into his head. Again he didnt really try to learn why was he dooing stuff he just clicked buttons
There is no way Rarran just said "He did not say hypothetically"
One thing that people tend to misunderstand about the resources being managed in yugioh is the importance of managing hard once per turn effects. For an example, tearlament is an archetype based around triggering the effect to fusion summon on the 3 main monsters every turn. Essentially the deck gets 3 attempts to fusion summon per turn provided you can get the monsters into the grave. Those effects are the resource being managed. Most yugioh decks have something similar to this, but how exactly this manifests varies from deck to deck. This is where the complexity and steep learning curve comes from. This was MBTs point from the end of his video.
But that's still not really a resource system. That's game effects. A resource system is what requires you to work around to get those effects to activate. A balance to prevent over playing and keeping turns to a minute or 2 max.
A resource system should make you think. Like assuming yugioh had one, "should spend X resource to try and do a special summon here or save x resource for a hand trap next turn?" You can kinda just do whatever you do and if you've got the cards while your opponent doesn't, you win.
@@gekikudo saying hard once per turns don’t count as a resource is like saying tapping a creature in magic doesn’t count as a resource. Also keep in mind that there is a lot more interaction in the average yugioh turn compared to most other card games so saying turns need to be short to keep a sense balance seems ill informed.
Ultimately a resource system is something that limits what you can do within a certain timeframe and hard opt effects do accomplish that goal.
@@brandonvanderhoff5678 not really. Once per turn effects are still once per turn effects no matter the game you play.
@@gekikudo I don’t know of a single game that utilizes hard once per turn effects in the same way and to the same extent as yugioh. In something like hs or magic, if I draw multiples of the same card, my ability to play both is limited by mana. In yugioh, you are instead limited by the hard once per turn clause on most modern cards. In other words, I have used my 1 out of 1 activation of a given card name. That is a resource that is limiting my plays. This absolutely has an impact on decision making over the course of a game. Alternatively consider a situation where you draw 2 monsters that have a strong effect when normal summoned. In this situation I have to decide which of those 2 cards a use my singular normal summon on. This is very similar to having only enough mana to play only one. The only difference is which game mechanic is limiting what I can do.
@@brandonvanderhoff5678 pokemon, one piece and digimon. All have a resource system. All use once per turn like effects.
To answer the question of what people mean when they say cards are a resource in yu-gi-oh, discarding and sacrificing cards as a cost to summon others or just use their effects is more core to the design than in other card games. That limits the amount of things you can do more directly based on the raw number of cards you have access to, irrespective of what the individual card is.
You still missed his point. In ANY card game, you need cards to do things. Doesn’t matter if you need extra cards to play cards, the fact that you need them to do anything to impact your line to win makes it being a resource the same to other tgcs
Force of Will exists in MTG my guy. The card is the equivalent of a Yugioh hand trap.
"discarding" or "sacrificing" cards as and example of resource system for YGO is absolutely nonsensical, it wouldve made sense maybe 10 years ago
Rn, whatever you're gonna sacrifice, 90% of the time it wants to be sacrificed in order to generate value
Cards in hand are a resource system in the sense that you're gonna have a limited number of options when the game starts, but thats really it
I think it is not a hot take, that card games can work without a mana system. There are difrent ways to introduce recources and it is something that is underexplored.
Coldest take ever! Yu-gi-oh is 21 years old!
@@YeahTheDuckweed well yes but almost every other collectible card game uses mana as a baseline. And i think yugioh is a very bad example of how it could be done. I like the way dominion uses resources, tho it is a bit of a diffrent game
@@darkwarriors6521 dzeeff once made a video called something along the lines of "what if every effect in yu-gi-oh was once per *duel* "
Kinda interesting I guess
Will say, 4:49 the solo mode is kinda fun as it shows the story of the cards you are playing with and the cpu isn't complete dogshit half the time.
"I understood the damage step" - I lol'd
Damage step has some of the most needlessly complex rulings in the game, that don't come up like ever, but if they do, they ruin your day.
In short, you have 5 different substeps, and different restrictions on what cards can and cannot be activated during each substep.
Also @1:02:42 - I dont think the 6 months is accurate. I've started the game (admittedly again, after playing a bit on the playground, and the DS games) in June last year, with Dragonmaid in the TCG, and the amount of understanding most yugioh players have (what does this do, are there relevant restrictions) is like...5 times + a basic guide.
Like, half of the card is basically fluff during a turn, which you can ignore.
"This [card names] effect can only be activated once per turn" - no line would try to use it more often, because of exactly that.
any type of lock - if you are aware of it, it's relevant. If not, it is basically a deckbuilding restriction, so you dont have to care anymore once you hit play.
The big issue here is that cardtext is formatted worse than your average 4th grade essay, and thus impossible to get the relevant info at a glance while playing against it.
The card text is pretty simple imo
declare attack
battle step
start of damage step
in damage step
before damage calculation
damage calculation
after damage calculation
end of damage step
@@LiMe251 for someone that comes from Hearthstone it absolutely is not
When adding in the tutorial in master duel, it gaslights you into thinking that the complexity starts at the same level as any other card game. Then when you actually start playing the game you suddenly realize that the difficulty spikes. The tutorial didn't teach you anything you actually needed to know so now you're confused as fuck. As you're actually learning what you need to know and you get more experience from playing you start to realize that it's even more complex until there's suddenly a point when it all starts to suddenly make sense. You start recognizing patterns of how your deck works, you start recognizing patterns about how your opponents deck works, you start understanding when you should interact with your opponent, you understand how you can shut down your opponents plays, and you start winning. Suddenly you hit a brick wall. Your starter deck isn't powerful enough to compete against any competent decks. If you decide to continue and build a better deck or search up guides on the best decks, you'll start to feel like Konami is laughing at you for ever being enough of a fool to think you understand the game from where you are. As you start going up against or try to play the tier 3-1 decks, you suddenly realize that the complexity has now gone higher than when you were confused as fuck at the start of your playtime. The only way to truly enjoy the game is to drip feed the games 20 years mechanics over the course of a couple months. You literally have to play playground yugioh with new players and 1-2 experienced players who have the patience to walk you guys through this shit. Modern yugioh hasn't been new player friendly in almost a decade. You desperately need to know someone who already understands the game to even have a chance at enjoying your experience. You also can't take a break unless you want to spend another couple hours learning all the new shit going on. It's a pain for new and returning players.
As a concatenate person who has left and came back to yugioh. The biggest grip I had was the player base because some new material came out, and they weren't helpful. After learning from judges the right plays, the community is toxic and is too prideful to admit we need change for new players. Love the video, and agree this game needs improvement.
chat should’ve gave him a full power swoso deck. Salad to a new player is wild
Fun fact, master duel DOES have a way to import decks... only issue is you need to know how to use the console on your PC AND you need a konami official account AND to upload a list onto their website 😂 ITS STUPID
Lmao Rarran, Farfa is chill. MBT and Farfa agreed with you
I haven't gotten to the farfa part but I'm assuming he doesn't get farfa 🤣🤣🤣 and how sarcastic he is
@@JohnnyMacs19 several others have mentioned this, but i will maintain that it wasn't Farfa, it was Twitch Chat basically pushing Rarran's buttons and tilting him.
@@phoenix5029chat was definitely like the source of all of the frustration and its even fucking worse that people act like its unprofessional or that his anger was unfounded
Farfa didnt agree with him at all have you not seen farfa basically heckling him on twitter?
@@skyrimlover777 heckling lol 😂 they just did a vid together. It's Farfa he's a memer even rastafari knows. Sheesh
18:14 yeah but if its turn 2 and you have an 8 drop in hand thats not a real resource. In yugioh every card is a resource.
I love watching MBT. You reacting to it makes this that much better.
Its really not that hard to understand what farfa is saying at 1:23:21, he said that if you put a pro yugioh player against a noob yugioh player the game is just over in the first turn and you wont be able to do anything, but if you put a pro hearthstone player against a noob even the noob will get to play a few turns off the game before he loses, thats the illusion that he was mentioning, in yugioh there is no illusion if you are worse then you just dont get to do anything
Tbh the illusion helps a player feel better but masks the massive skill gap but at the same time creates those toxic people say the whole I would've won if *made up scenario* happened who won't accept skill gaps are a reality that you have to accept but also can work towards getting better at the game too
@@Fencer_Nowa It's not a skill gap honestly. In most games, in a pretty sizable amount of games, there are optimal decisions that are easy to make and assuming your opponent doesn't make a terrible mistake, the result is set in stone from before you even draw your cards. No skill you could've used, unless you consider building your deck in the first place, in which case, yeah. But still.
Our boy Rar-Ran not understanding a single iota of Farfa's sarcasm and going absolutely balistic was hilarious to watch.
Dude farfa says everything in literally the same fucking tone like no disrespect ive never heard this dude and I could not detect an ounce of sarcasm
@@rantbot9176 It's because the sarcasm is basically only detectable if you know exactly what he's talking about in regards to the jokes he's making about mechanics and interactions lol. Kind of the definition of humor that's locked to a specific audience.
It's just farfa being farfa
@@Rynjinivar do you even hear yourself pull up an example and explain it because I would very much like to know if I had to be in rarrans place id go balistic too cuz unless you can somehow explain how both chat and farfa is not being literal it literally looks like rarran is getting shit on with the most delusional arguments
@@gamingzone_8142 please for the love of god like explain how hes being sarcastic or how someone like me can tell thats just a silly little character he’s doing - like what indication farfa gives that someone like me can know I shouldnt be taking his words seriously
Cuz otherwise “its just farfa being farfa” just means “its just farfa being profoundly stupid”
I fully agree with the learning graph and where Yu-Gi-Oh fails to entice new players. It's so very simple, you don't drop a first grader into a calculus class. Yes, they have a basic understanding of what a number is, but they are not going to understand anything they're looking at without going through the other grades first, which takes years to do and doesn't even guarantee they'll understand it even then.
God, the whiplash of going from MBT'a scripted, well-articulated response to Farfa probably in his second hour on stream, fried, is funny.
Hi I'm someone who went from hearthstone to yugioh. I'm sorry that chat was harassing you. I think both streamers agreed with you and your opinions are valid.
I'm one of these weird Yugioh people and just saw this video in my recommendations.
When I watched the video from MBT I somehow didn't even realize all the different names he used. Was nice laughing alongside you.
To this point about "the decks you chose are some of the more easy ones to get into":
It was kind of eye opening to see how surprised you seemed about this. But it's true. Dragonmaids and Salamangreat are on the rather linear side of decks and since they also have Structure Decks, they often are considered to be THE best choices to get into this game. It's just this really strange thing in this game that a Structure deck isn't really playable on it's own...rather you have to buy one three times and "somehow" figure out which of the cards are the actually interesting ones.
As to the Farfa portion: I'm sorry that you had to deal with the toxicity and gatekeeping that is way too common in this community.
The topic about keywords/ formatting of card texts is a nice example...Yes, it is a big hurdle that most cards are giant walls of texts. Even the way they are written is pretty inconsistent. If cards would be easier understandable, it would be easier to get into and even for seasoned players it would make for less headache.
Simple concept. But I kid you not, every time this gets discussed, there are some people arguing "Nah, no need to dumb the game down. It's your fault when you can't read and comprehend big walls of texts in a matter of seconds and put them into perspective to the rest of the deck. And if you can't remember every single card by just skimming over it once, you're an idiot anyways."
I wouldn't call dragonmaids and salamangreat good for beginning players, dragonmaids have a lot of points where you can screw yourself over if you don't know what you're doing and salad is all combo lines you need to learn. As much as we all hate playing against it, decks like Eldlich, Runick stun and other floodgate turbo decks are the easiest way for new players to get in.
@@hurrdurrmurrgurr and guess what , it's teach you nothing, yes it's easy but you not growing at all, you just floodgates Andy's wait to flip your floodgate and win because opponent just tilt.
It's like everyone said deck like dragon maid or salad actually a pretty solid choice just because it's not only teach you the basic premise of what Yu GI oh was being combo ball to the wall, also having merit to helping you grow as the duelist.
Like the problem is with the keyword we gonna have alot of it, and I rather having much simpler easy to dissolve like the ocg formating or even something better like rush duel formating, don't get me wrong yeah it's nice having something just read "when summons tutor 1 x card from the deck", but again we gonna have alot of since new weird shit mechanic gonna happen in Yu GI oh that may or may not bloated even the keyword.
@@hurrdurrmurrgurr That's true. But when you want to start playing the kind of deck most decks are, Salamangreat and Dragonmaid are good for learning in theory, because Salamangreat does a lot of different things, and Dragonmaid is simple. But honestly, it's not gonna feel like you're learning when you keep losing because those decks aren't very good anymore lol. Honestly, I think you should start with the whatever the best deck in the game is. Then you actually know if what you're doing is effective without having to worry about if it's the deck's fault you lost 10 times in a row.
Nah bruh, blood went crazy in the Farfa portion, he was immediately extremely hostile and derogatory because he couldn't understand simple points, and some sarcasm lmao.
I said it before in Rarran's original video and I will say it here as well. The main difficulty in YGO is that all (essentially) the decks are synergistic combo piles designed to ladder various effects into each other, which provides pretty much no good entry point for new players because you have to understand the way the cards synergize and can't just take them as you see them. Like, I've played a lot of TCGs (and tabletop games in general) and YGO is the only one where I have so regularly and aggressively hamstring myself by triggering effects in slightly wrong orders.
And yes, some of this is just me being dumb at times. And also this is not say that you cannot play other TCGs badly or anything or that like playing handing a new play an Ironworks deck in Magic is gonna result in a better experience for them. It is just that the -way- you end up playing YGO wrong as a new player can be exceedingly frustrating because it is all combo play and there is no real "Red Deck Wins, go face aggro" equivalent to help keep new players low to the ground (but effectively actually playing the game) when they're learning.
And to be clear. I am not good at YGO by any stretch of the imagination. But I -have- had fun and I -have- gotten those matches with real solid back and forth where I can see why people really fall in love with the game. I just think the core problem for onboarding new players is incredibly obvious and also very difficult to solve and want to reiterate that as somebody who has played a LOT of games over a LOT of years.
To be fair. I can actually think of a decent somewhat exception. Sky striker. I mean the pure one not the access code variant. A bunch of simple +1 effects. There are a couple others like that where it's pretty easy to figure out what they do and how to use them. But generally I agree.
This needs to be the top comment
Which is why we need formats and ways to play like MTGA that let people start small. If Dragonmaid was the most complex deck allowed in a format people would be able to handle it.
@@janehrahan5116playing sentouki/striker requires YOU to be able to know the inside out of your opp deck means you have pilot your opponent deck.
You think it's easy? Absolutely not
@@janehrahan5116 But playing Sky Striker requires you to know your opponent's deck and what to negate and take.
We are so damn lucky he saw the MBT vid first
yo my guy! creator-meta question: Any particular reason why this is on the second channel, I almost missed this upload and it's extremely interesting to see your thoughts on this - I'm generally way more into long form content, were you worried it wouldn't fit the more edited approach on the main channel?
Excited to watch it, have a great weekend man!
Didn’t think it wa s worth uploading on main
One thing people keep asking for in Master Duel is alternate formats so new players, or people who don't like the massive combos of modern YGO could play that. Would be a better learning curve, and less word spam to go through to figure out what is happening, but they don't seem to care enough to give it to us. Although some IRL tournaments seem to be doing alternate format events.
The people complaining you didn't finish the tutorial are coping hard and not understanding that no amount of tutorial is going to let you keep up with what is going on during your opponents turn in modern YGO. Farfa has a series where it's a tournament that bans the winning decks, and despite how many cards getting banned, there's still massive combo decks and First Turn Kills happening.
Master Duel gave you a starter deck. The tutorial should have been how to play that deck at a basic level, then you duel other players with similar low complexity decks. Instead you went to PVP against people who seem to already know what they were doing with decent decks and had to sit through reading hundreds of words in a single turn, then try to figure how what to do against it. Keep in mind, IRL people would complain about Slow Play if you take too long trying to figure out what cards did and what to do. Master Duel makes things easier with button prompts and highlighted cards/text (sometimes) and it still feels like you spend most of your first few days playing reading dozens of cards a minute trying to remember what they all do.
Side note: I think the only reason YGO doesn't use Keywords despite the desperate need for them is that they don't want to reprint cards with updating wording, or reformat the text on thousands of cards currently in Master Duel/Duel Links.
Your opinion based on the first few hours of playing is what's going to happen to the vast majority of players who aren't just casually playing with friends. Maybe if more people tried YGO and came to a similar conclusion and made videos/streams about their new player experience, Konami might actually try to make a change. But probably not.
27:46 I have played yugioh competitively, and I play both Magic and HS. You are 100% right.
On the key words issue: Konami already implemented some key words over the years. "Excavate x" used to be worded "Pick up the top x cards of your deck", "banish" used to be "remove from play", "this card deals piercing damage" used to be "when this card attacks a defense position monster, it inflicts battle damage".
Is there a glossary in the game that tells you what each keyword does? If not then that isn’t a keyword system, that is removing info from the game.
@@pete5516 Of course there isn't, we're talking about Konami here.
Maybe they added like a page in the rule book I haven't read that in years.
It does have the upside that those card texts affected by these changes are a bit more comprehensible if you know your vocabulary.
@@pete5516 But afaik MTG doesn't have an in-game glossary for key words either (some cards just explain them) and it works quite well.
@@nigerianprinceajani yeah that’s fair, I don’t really see why they wouldn’t include it that seems like the absolute bare minimum (I am criticising both wizards and Konami here and tbh they both deserve it) but it seems like designing card games effectively is hard.
What isn’t hard is to hire some people who know your game well enough to make a decent, up to date tutorial…
@@pete5516 Yeah the Master Duel solo mode is complete garbage
About the illusion of choice: Say you are playing against mage OTK but you are playing pirate rougue, you already lost and there is nothing you can do to win this game but you still get to play cards and attack but you never actually could play the game because the result would be the same doesn't matter what you did.
1:18:53 saying "we don't NEED new players" is the dumbest possible thing. it's like saying "our game is dying anyway. why would you wanna play it?". even the most popular game loses players every day, so a niche game needs new players the most.
100% cap that a small portion of people look stuff up online when playing a game they are new to. Huge Cap. I'd argue that like...70% of people probably look at least something up online when playing a new game. Whether that is Builds, Tier Lists, Deck Building, Tutorials, Locations for Secrets or Loot, Glitches, Mods, and so on. There is no way this man is trying to say only like...20% (looking at his ms paint graph) of people look stuff up online when playing a game. Now mind you he said "Amount of people who look up content for the game" not "Amount of people that look up help for the game." Even if it was only just help related things like Tier Lists, Builds and Tutorials that would still be so much larger then 20%.
Okay... Just going to point this out. YuGiOh did not aim to be like any other card game. Cause the game was not made to be a game first. It was cobbled together post-introduction in a manga. It is unapologetic in this regard. You need to take only the most basic understanding of card games and toss out the rest. It is fine if it was too much, not fun, etc.
If he started in the synchro era, he probably would have been fine. But as Xyz, pendulums, and links were added, the game also had power and effect creep. Starting fresh requires at least a few months of careful study for the most basic decks. Those that can compete anyway.
Literally just not true. Yu-gi-oh was 100% a cute, shitty magic clone initially. Rarran would probably have a great time playing goat right?
The synchro era of which you speak is definitely when an identity started to be carved out for the game. Edison is arguably about the time when we stop being able to jump right into a card game like yu-gi-oh and just "play"
@@YeahTheDuckweed It can't be a Magic clone. It is more accurate to say it is loosely inspired by Magic. Nothing about the two games have anything to do with each other. Monsters only have 1 round of combat in YuGiOh with big number flatten little number, no matter how small the difference. They always defend your life points. Monsters never become exhausted. There is no mana system. There are no key words. Etc.
The best you can say is there are distinct card types and some cards have effects that are similar to the other game.
@Linkfan001 what you just described is a version of magic that requires some serious fleshing out haha
Atk > def: simpler than magic
Defending life points: thank goodness for that. Games wouldn't last long enough if they made watts in 2002
No exhaustion: true but there was trap hole
No mana: true but there was the normal summon, and we're working with the "once per turn" system in the year of our lord 2023
No keywords: see exactly "piercing" (it's a sad state of affairs)
All that and it was still conceptualised as a molasses-pace fantasy grindfest that was just never projected to be as successful as magic. And it wouldn't have been
@@YeahTheDuckweed or a game that is quite clearly not trying to be Magic but utilize the barest bones for its own purposes since the manga it came from was about "high stakes kids games." Something inspiring something else does not mean the two have to act on any way similar. That is okay.
@Linkfan001 tbf yu-gi-oh the card game was based off of specifically the shadow game that was a card game that was particularly popular ay. But I don't think at the time anyone who made a card game at the time had any idea how *not* to be inspired by magic right? Obviously it's ok; it happened
At this point you have to collab with MBT. Not to necessarily learn Yugioh, but to see what other names he can come up with for you
Based
Legit the only way I got into Yu-Gi-Oh was playing progression with my friends during lockdown. Only one of us was slightly knowledgeable of the game, and it took a long while to learn, but its the best way to actually play it. You learn what came out when, have an understanding of the power creep that progressively happens, and also the history of the game.
Master Duel is not the best when it comes to teaching, because you have to speed read 25 years of card text in order to understand anything. Meanwhile with MtG you only need to understand the last few sets. YGO is a time investment that streamers or casuals can't just jump into without a handhold, and that sucks.
I honestly think him doing a progression like series would be a good way for him to learn. Master duel should have a draft styled progression format
33:00 The problem with introducing keywords to the game is that effects are so different and complex that keywords would not help as much and potentially make the game even more complex
I don’t play yugioh because it’s complex. I play it because I like how archetypes turn deckbuilding into an art, much like how the anime portrays it as an expression of each character.
But it is a terribly complicated and and hard to get in to unless you do something like a progression series or know a guy who played far back enough to understand the game.
Having the same hand traps as everyone else isn't expressive of one's character. It shows that yu gi oh has no character outside of the anime.
There are a ton of interesting archetypes, but the power creep has reached such absurd levels only a fraction of them are actually competitive. For a game that boasts no rotation and 20k+ cards, only maybe 400 of them see play in any given format (and that's probably a high estimate).
That's fine when you're playing with friends, but for playing in a competitive environment, no, you don't get to express yourself, because as skilled as you are, you're not going to be able to beat a decent level player with a trash deck.
You must play with your friends irl. Cuz in Masterduel I’m getting clapped by full power Kashtira in Silver 5.
@@Touffy029omit “competitive” and use playable. My fucking train deck isn’t playable in SILVER. Smfh
Nah dude. People just don't read my super niche cards from 2+ years ago, and tend to quit when Ogdoabyss wipes their board.@@OGSauceDaddy
So there was an interview with Richard Garfield the creator of MTG. He had mentioned that there is a scale from low complexity to high complexity if I remember right and he was comparing checkers to chess among other games. The higher the complexity the more of a barrier there is to your game to bring new players in. You inject into your game a chance of randomness as it gives that .1% chance for the new player to win even against the best. In a card game sense that can be the number of cards hand size, deck size, resources, how many cards drawn... It can even be something as simple as adding a coin flip or a die roll. When you strip that away you get a game that yes is a good game to play, but the curve is just too much for someone fresh to experience to some people the same pleasure you get when you play your favorite game.
Solution: play blind second decks! You'll never lose a coin flip in your life haha
MBT is the best ! If you should ever wanna do something again for yugioh he would be the perfect match :D
One thing I haven’t seen anybody say is there aren’t new players on master duel. If you’re going into ranked at the bottom you’re going up against people who just crafted the tier 1 meta deck and are ready to start climbing or someone who has experience who is coming back after a hiatus. Only when you get to the middle of the pack do you really see any diversity in strategy and more rogue decks that aren’t turn 1 negate everything you do on your turn. I try to comfortably sit in gold and that’s where I don’t often run into tier 1 stuff but I do still have to fight for the win with my midrange deck. There is just a very small conceivable chance that you will get matched with someone else learning the game starting out.
Personally, I’m a Diamond 5 in Legends of Runeterra, Infinite around 2700 CP rank in Marvel Snap, and Diamond 1 in both Hearthstone and Yu-Gi-Oh! Master Duel. I think if you don’t know your cards or your opponent’s cards, it’s on you. You have time to read them, but you just ignore it and then blame everything else. I think a non-complicated card game suits you better, where you just read the cards once and remember them forever. In Yu-Gi-Oh!, you need to constantly learn new things because you never know when some lunatic psychopath might bring out a 20-year-old card to mess up your gameplay. So, you need to read not just your cards but all the cards.
//i edit for easy to read cause my first language not english so yeah sorry
Just wanted to mention a small point around 19:25 when someone in chat says stuff about micro steps and Rarran responds that he understood the phases. He's misunderstanding what the chat is saying.
There is the battle phase. But in the battle phase, there is also "the battle step" which in itself is broken down into: attack declaration, the Battle Step, the Damage Step, before damage calculation, damage calculation, after damage calculation, and the end of Damage Step. Different cards and effects can or cannot activate depending on which SPECIFIC part of the battle step you are currently in.
That's part of what the chat is saying at this point. You think you understand the battle phase, but in reality there are 7 different mini steps that you go through each battle that you don't even realize happen most of the time. Yugioh starts complicated as hell, and then you think you get it, but you've only just started.
To Rarran's defense: He's mostly right about Yu-Gi-Oh. To Rarran's offense: He eats PlayDough for living
Such a shame he didnt enjoy yugioh. Hed have fit right in lmao.
@@tbaggins5349 1) Ain't a shame really, who cares?! If he doesn't enjoy the game, he doesn't enjoy the game. Grow up Yugi-babs 2) What does your comment have to do with mine?
@@Master_Zeromus it was a joke. Saying that yugioh players all also eat playdough.
@@tbaggins5349 Oh, my bad. Didn't read the rest of the message. I just noticed it now. Thousand apologies ~
The decks playing and pacing themselves so differently bc there isn't a core tempo resource like mana is a big appealing thing, but it also gives Yu-Gi-Oh the exact problem of telling someone to learn a fighting game character. That being said, Konami has also been ass at giving beginners resources. Hopefully the new two-player starter deck coming out will inform the design of official guides. Right now, papeer structure decks don't come with a rulebook and the rulebook PDF you can read on the official website is outdated. Instead of updating the rulebook they link a BLOG POST with changes in it.
I learned ygo alone by watching a lot of tutorials and reading a lot of articles on tcg websites. It took nearly as much studying as a 200 level undergrad course. I do really enjoy the game but trying to convince any of my friends to put themselves through that is just never going to happen. the only ppl getting into the game these days are either ppl that have a lot of experience in other card games (even still means so little w how unique ygo is) or stem major types that legit enjoy the research almost as much as the actual playing. I had two accounts in diamond before they released Master rank and I still can't play one of these full gas combo decks even w years of experience. I have two or three decks that I know I like that I stick to. The argument the game is not too complicated is completely insane. It just is.
personally, the way I got back into Yugioh at the start of Covid was rank 10 Trains and then Crusadia with Kaijus. a rank 10 trains deck can sometimes work even just when clicking buttons and Crusadia's style of straight forward nature means it's relatively easy to play as it's mostly just laddering to equimax otk
I unironically learned how to play from the anime. Well, mostly, I had to figure the rest out by myself, but the most part of the basic knowledge came from the anime
Real, I never understood people coping that it isn't that hard or even that it's easy. For new players, it's like a new language. Not unlike you, someone who went to plat on release and then diamond before master (stopped playing for a while ever since that update), I have a handful of decks I stick to because I took the time to learn and play with them and I still don't have all the interactions and mechanics memorized. Luckily, when you aren't playing competitively you can get away with just a normal understanding of your deck and the interactions IT encounters. But there is an issue that you need to learn basically a baby judge quiz just to play casually without issue.
Yep the only types of people that I know that have stuck with master duel past the "I want to play the cards from the anime" phase are the studious or hyper competitive types. Because yugioh requires an overwhelming amount of knowledge to play your own deck let alone figuring out wtf your opponent/s are doing.
@@U1TR4F0RCE yeah I learned w eldlich that could make gustav OTK
Watching this video and knowing rarran made content with both of them, and im preatty sure he enjoyed it, makes me really happy
Ah yes, Rarran experiencing the collective nuclear waste that is Farfa's chat.
MBT is maybe the funniest yugioh youtuber out there. I am now holding out hope for a Rarran MBT crossover.
MBT is good at stealing old farfa memes lol
@@ms77619 I don't remember Farfa saying "-ussy" so many times
@@MomirViggwilvinspiration happens. LOL
YGO, a lot of the complexity after you got the basic foundation of the game is deck building, tech cards and extra deck choices.
A new player isnt going to understand that Lullaby of Obedience is a good tech atm, cause everyone is splashing Kashtira Fenrir into decks. But only for hail marry blow out.
Or even some cards are confusing, like Small World. I guarantee someone could read that card 10 times and still dont know wtf it does.
Though I still like the game. Its one of those games you play if you really enjoy doing your opponent dirty.
its something unbeknownst to any new or casual players who aren't either theory crafting or being posted up with other relavant talk about the meta game and newest cards to be on top of the game. Even the most bland of tech cards we all just brush off as yeah whatever, any player will see raigeki at 3 in the tcg and say "how the fuck is that allowed". they wouldn't understand why TTT is popular if change of hearts is in the game or why lightning storm is used of their counterparts since they just dont know how far the game has advanced. it's become so advanced, that only those in the know of Lullaby, would pick out some super old card that weas so old it was made without intent of being playable against said meta. I only knew of Lullaby from duel links, and I still had to take a second why it was being ran in a Kash deck i just went up against. The new player experience is brutal in the tiniest of ways that would mostly be overlooked, but this talking hopefully gets brought up even more since the one time it was brought up during the komoney board meeting
I've been playing yugioh since around 2012, so I do think it's easy to grab new cards and figure out what a deck does and try it out over time and build a good deck alone... but you're totally right, it is imposible to get into the game by yourself, I got into the game because my friends played it in high school, so I learnt with them, ultimately the game is sadly dying, and I don't think it can be fixed, because what makes me and a bunch of other people to love the game, is also what makes it unaccesible...
also, I'm saddened by the chat you got in that stream, you def got to see the toxic half of the yugioh community, I apologize on the behalf of the other half.
Watching Rarran slowly lose his mind during the Farfa section was amazing.
The most annoying thing about yugioh to me is that EVEN without changing all its flaws, chaos, and essay-level reading, they STILL COULD make the new player experience 1000x better if they really tried
yeah they just dont care anough, most creators are affraid/dont want to straight up say it, but its just that the company never cared enough, or almost any amount at all
If you gave people an option to play like 2010 yugioh on master duel, people would get instantly hooked.
Bro 2003 yugioh
2010?you mean the time monarch and GB slap my ass🐧
@@HieuTran-xl5oz Nah edison is fair mostly.
@@zanki9838 its so fun, i wish new players were more easily exposed to edison format so they could experience the joy of the tutorial ACTUALLY teaching you the game 😭 its the perfect way to get introduced to yugioh in general
@@zanki9838you ask master duel to give tcg banlist when it managed by Konami jp? Are you serious? The closest you can get it infernity ocg format
And oh boy you're not going to like launcher summon at 3.
Both MBT and Farfa's video's were great reactions to your content. Both had great criticism and seemed like interesting perspectives on the scope of the game. Although Rarran did his best to watch the videos it seems like people in your chat take what Rarran says to face value and not see what he did was trial a new game and how it didn't work out. As plain as that. Rarran do you man, play what you want. But i don't like watching you argue with people. Just do you. I probably won't be able to watch another live stream if he gets like this again. Step away, and don't sweat about other people. As a Yugioh fan, as a fan of many card games, we all get heated and need a break.
I agree with the most part but dude Farfa and his chat is so delusional
About that last part at least imo its not something easy to do. because as a content creator he needs to make content that people want to watch(which still isnt easy because you literaly cant please everyone) and he does that type of stuff for a living but still as a streamer he needs to interact with the chat he has and there are moments when he needs to adress some problems. i can see why you dont like to see rarran argue with his chat but unfortunetly in this video its not that easy if you're dealing with such toxic community. As you said he's tried his best but didnt well.
In short i can understand and somewhat agree with you but thats something complicated to do (at least imo) anyway just wanted to give my 2 cents about it and dont worry i dont disagree with you because i can see your.
I hope that rarran will manage it all in a way that he sees as something right and that he'll have enjoable time with whatever he plans to do next.
And i wish you a nice day or night and sorry for big block of text 😅
Bro how you putting it on him that he got mad lmao, he wasn't even mad at the videos, it's the fucking chat that was insane lmao
@NevirSurrender I don't want him to feel like his fanbase is full of toxic people. When he got to the point of telling his followers to leave his channel, he was very sad.
@szymonj9377 Of course, the content is part of the controversy. To make content is to fight the internet, just saying he should separate himself from chat, at least for content he feels will make him upset. I feel like this video would be better if he had no chat and it was edited down a bit.
The whole "You'd never play against a Pro player as a noob" reminds me of the time in 2015 when I played against Ek0p at DreamHack, like face-to-face. All because HTC wanted to promote their new phones. Shame I can't find the video.
About the Ilussion of choice comparison, imagine this scenario: 2 Players fight against each other, both have armies but one has an A-bomb. Meaning the winner is clear, in HS it takes him 8 turns to use his bomb, giving you the Illusion of having a chance to win because you took like 50% of his army but you will lose anyway, so wasting your time. In yugioh the other player can bomb you in turn 1 ending the game before you did anything but he would won anyway but without wasting yout time.
Ahh yes, my favorite card game: Russian Roulette
Rarran when he hears a perfectly reasonable and understandable point