Yes.. I'm aware that you can make garangolm hbg fastest reload but you lose that 50 raw. Pain. The highest raw hbg that i didn't mention here is diablos which is around 410 raw with -30% affinity. Gore Magala HBG / Kelbi HBG / Demonlord beast buster will all have lesser damage than this sadly. They won't even go up to 450 raw with a power barrel.
After playing with Normal 3 recently on HBG and rewatching your video, I somewhat disagree with your premise that that HBG should not play Normal 3 or imply that a person shouldn't use a specific ammo type outside of Shrapnel. It would have been nice if you posted some footage of you playing Normal HBG as there is nothing to observe or compare. Thus, the only normal runs to go off of is the Korean/Japanese TA runs that use Normal ammo and seem to be fine with using Crouching Shot Normal against monsters like A.Rathian. In your test dummy scenario, I don't think it shows the whole picture especially in actual combat. In your specific scenario, the HBG has the bigger clip size and due to HBG naturally having a lower recoil, the HBG will fire more shots than the LBG over time, as demonstrated in one of your videos as well other Ytber videos. Even further Crouching Shot puts out great Nromal DPS. Some people did a speedrun test of HBG Normal and LBG Normal against Teostra and Rathian and the HBG usually got a 20s+ better time than the LBG; but perhaps thats limited to those individuals, idk. Nevertheless, I don't think your dummy example was a fair comparison of Normal 3 DPS between HBG and LBG. After playing around with Normals, I also believe the Kelbi HBG is still way better than Anjanth HBG from what I have played. Purely DPS, Kelbi loses at raw, but has the bigger clip size, no negative affinity, and better deco slots; including allowing for Kushala Soul. More importantly Kelbi HBG does not need a single point in Recoil/Reload and only 1 point in Steadiness for Temper. When put Kelbi HBG through the set builder it allows for alot of options that quickly makes up for its lack of raw imo. Kelbi is aalso a fantastic Blood Rite gun for anomalies. Maybe I am wrong on all of this, but I hope you revisit Normal 3 HBG in the future after the updates because it seems to be performing fairly well in the HBG community; at least in comparison to LBG performance with Normal 3 as I don't think Normal 3 is a meta ammo.
Crouching fire would need to last like twice as long to make it good. Hopefully they can at least band-aid fix it by adding a skill that reduces heat buildup in the title updates.
As a lover of the HBG, I wish they would buff just a tiny bit more or give it something more to stand with the LBG. As for what that thing should be, I don't know yet.
HBG charge mechanic rework: HBG gets a guage similar to Hunting Horn's new guage. Charging fills the guage. Shots drain guage but are powered up. Drain amount depends on ammo type. Counter shot will be boosted based on guage level but won't drain it. Counter Charger will instantly fill guage and reload current ammo.
@@mikaeldp Exactly! What's the point of changing the recoil on a bunch of different ammo types if we just need to add in 1 skill and maybe a silencer? Honestly, I think the HBG suffers from ammo recoil changes more than the lbg because the LBG gets silencer but HBGs don't get any additional recoil negation.
They should have made Crouching fire strong lbg gets the option for 30% more damage and Hbg gets Crouching fire with huge attack speed but they decided that crouching fire must be nerfed from GU even tho GUs Valor Siege was only Op because the fire rate and reload speed in that game is very slow compared to rise recoil and reload speed im not even sure if a crouching fire with 13 shots for pierce would make it any better
Plus rise couching fire doesn’t have the same ability to escape punishment as valor siege which makes it more situational as you have to pick the right moment to unload the shots.
@@Terminarch not just that the sprint from couch also had amazing potential as it allows for repositioning and evasion while not needing to rely on the dodge if dodge is not as good in that case. Plus the valor load also gave it alot of power.
@@Terminarch Ah, yes. Let's forget about the infinite dash sprint, the faster reload that buffed your bullets and ability to shoot all your ammo in siege mode like a psychopath and do bonkers dps from a safe distance. It was *just* the dodge that made it viable, not a combination of all these things. The s on dodge/slide were pog, but only one part of why it was so strong back then.
@@MrInsiipid Have you watched valor hbg deviant speedruns? It doesn't matter how much damage siege mode does if you get hit using it. If you had to wait a couple seconds to stand up before moving like in Sunbreak it would be completely unusable except on downs: th-cam.com/video/Xkzl5pyhUFQ/w-d-xo.html And I included the sprint in "dodging" but yeah should have been explicit.
Overall it just sucks that HBG specials and ammo mods are completely fucking useless. Ramp up Wyvernfire, Wyvernsnipe, charged shots, crouch... even just add a % damage buff to the ring skills. Every single one of these things limits your mobility and are not viable damage options either. Bringing this up a bit would at least give HBG some playstyle identity separate from LBG and make it worth the increased risk.
For the crouching fire, I find it useful. At the time you only have 1 ammo in your clip, instead of firing one more and reload, do a crouching fire and make sure you do not overheat so you can continue firing.
Crouch shot has been my bread and butter and i just woke up to the power of Normal 3 today. Crouch Shot 10 hits, then go through your normal clip, then reload, and repeat. Spare Shot can help give 2-4 more shots... but at the end of the quest, you just have to accept the devs gave us range, and gave LBG the damage. This ain't MHWorld HBG i guess.
@@Eaglelioncourt it also has decreased range with the silencer mod on it. Honestly, the range can be made absolutely pathetic. If you get a hbg with rising moon, ballistic 3, and sniper 3, you'll be shooting from orbit.
i think they should change the Setting Sun swtich skil to just simply increasing damage rather than increasing the tick per shot. it would help HBG to atleast catch up with LBG in term of damage. why is LBG have 2 switch skill to buff damage and HBG got nada? both charge shot and crouching shot is mediocre at doing what they do.
I honestly think HBG needs more love, people obviously will pick LBG over it because of the movement it has and the damage numbers are good as well. But I do think HBG needs more attention and more builds to be able to compete like it did in Monster Hunter Horld.
Shield Shotgun HBGs still feel good, but yeah, I feel that LBG is really hogging the spotlight compared to its big bro. That said though, explosive HBG (Antique Machina) over LBGs. Damage and the ability to yeet Clusters without even crouching is just too good.
It is because HBG was incredibly broken in the last two MonHunt games (Gu, Worldborne) so they buffed LBG and now people prefer it due to the mobility.
It wasnt really a competition in world, hbg was way stronger, this time it's closer than it has ever been, with LBG finally having the upper hand for general use
HBG needs the compression mechanic from Frontier. Being able to compress your clip size to 1 bullet then shoot is a game changer for HBG. I was happy when they introduced charged shots as that was a main mechanic with Frontier HBG but it feels wasted when you only use it for a single bullet, as you’ll get more dps if you shoot normally.
Yeah, it's kind of strange how both of the new firing modes they gave to heavy bowgun, charge shot and crouching fire, both are just kind of... bad. I just wish they gave heavy bowgun better damage per bullet and range than the light bowgun so I could use it for sniping, but currently light bowgun seems to be better at that too, due to long barrel. Unless I intend to sacrifice my counter for the ability to create rings that increase range...
being the Main HBG, the only 3 ammo type i use is, sticky ammo, slash ammo build, and spread ammo III Build, never can go wrong with these 3 type of ammo and build
Garangolm Crouching Fire Normal 3 is what got me to endgame, and while it may not have been quick, it was still enjoyable nonetheless to utilize it the moments it's perfect for (monster's showboating, topple/ko/para, etc.) Tie in Rising Moon and being able to stay ten miles back like Pierce can, it can be really comfy despite being outperformed by the contending LBG. Then again, LBG Critical Firepower works opposite of RM, being that you need to be closer and play riskier to get an increase to damage, while RM lets you play a good bit safer by staying further away while still enabling your damage.
If they dont buff other more nuanced areas of HBGs, they need to just give them a flat 100 extra base raw. I would prefer some general mag size, and by default lower recoil and faster reloads and rate of fire though. At very high level play or with a competent set builder, they DO do more damage than LBGs, but its not by a very large amount. its hard to notice it unless you have the hard numbers to compare back to back. As it is though, yeah, HBGs give up WAY too much in comparison for far too little return on that investment. You lose your mobility, which in this game is a huge deal because the monsters are tuned to you being hyper mobile. You lose variety of ammos, and most of the time lose any useful status ammos. You lose your fast stow time for item usage. You lose a LOT. In turn you recieve bigger primary ammo magazines by a bit, (but insulting status mag size if you even have one worth using at all), a special ammo type that is litterally not worth using as you're losing dps and making yourself vulnerable in preparing and shooting it, situational and kinda bad wirebug moves.. and like 8% more dps if you do everything right. Keep in mind, you WILL cart more with hbg than lbg, even if you are gods gift to gunners, simply due to mobility.. which is a dps reduction, if not a failiure condition. HBGs just need straight up more damage dealing ability, or better innate stats such that you can fit more skills onto them... and for gods sake please buff wyvernheart/snipe enough to actually be worth using. The state they are in in this game and the previous is criminal, straight up noob trap. The switch skills besides the guard point all need work too.
Crouching fire just isn't very useful in a game with guns that have lowest recoil and fastest reload. They also gave LBG all the damage increasing options meanwhile HBG gets crouching fire and charged shot....
Charged shots are pretty much useless imo, crouching tho is nice. Even if you consider that you can shoot normally when you know the monster won't move (after some attacks or when toppled) I use crouching fire, not only it deals good damage (using a pierce 3 hbg) but when I've shot my 7-8 shots of crouching I can just keep going with my clip size being full!
@@undertaker2766 nah charging can be useful with stickies, elemental, and of course wyvern fire. Coincidentally these are HBG's strongest ammos atm whereas crouch is just dogshit no matter what
@@LordWallace It can be nice on shield spread HBG, too. If the monster is midturn or moving and you want to ensure you hit the best spot, you can charge it once or twice in the meanwhile and it does respectable damage. Also lets you play safe if you aren't sure what the monster is about to do, since you'll still block if you're holding the charge. People calling Charge Shots useless are just being silly.
CF can't catch up? it did 50% more damage in the same time frame as a buffed LBG but for some unreasonable reason you let CF overheat. it would be like taking critical firepower but then not standing at perfect critical distance.....you see how honestly stupid that is? in a real battle you are FAR more likely to mess up critical distance then you are to overheat CF. also while critical firepower DOES increase damage per shot, it DOES increase recoil (which is a direct DPS loss, recoil is pretty much attack speed) and also makes critical distance very small which means having to be a super try hard and if you are going to be a try hard, might as well go spread. second to last if you are going HBG, you go for CRITS first THEN raw, as where with LBG you have the option to go for raw or crit. finally, the HIGHEST raw weapon isn't the BEST DPS weapon (this applies to ALL weapons). you actually want LOWER raw and higher AFFINITY + most slots possible because it's soooooooooo easy to get tons and tons of raw from skills + might seed + powder + demon drink. if you truly want to see the little glimmer of light that HBG has then take off your shades and actually LOOK.
"you see how honestly stupid that is? in a real battle you are FAR more likely to mess up critical distance then you are to overheat CF." - use ballistics. "also while critical firepower DOES increase damage per shot, it DOES increase recoil (which is a direct DPS loss, recoil is pretty much attack speed) and also makes critical distance very small which means having to be a super try hard and if you are going to be a try hard, might as well go spread." -use absorber and quickload decos - don't you have them? "second to last if you are going HBG, you go for CRITS first THEN raw, as where with LBG you have the option to go for raw or crit. finally, the HIGHEST raw weapon isn't the BEST DPS weapon (this applies to ALL weapons). you actually want LOWER raw and higher AFFINITY + most slots possible because it's soooooooooo easy to get tons and tons of raw from skills + might seed + powder + demon drink." - I don't even know where to start I'm just going to agree to disagree because there are too many holes here. "if you truly want to see the little glimmer of light that HBG has then take off your shades and actually LOOK." - Don't expect me to take of my shades and actually look when you just focus on like CF overheating and not even 10% of what i said in the video.
@@AngBata11 "yep. I'm looking man" no you are not, you are blinded by your bias. aka not accounting for downtime on critical firepower/fanning maneuver. your not always going to be at perfect distance nor are you going to be at the perfect angle to use either of those. this applies to HBG CF as well, it's not something you just do when it's available, you are not going to have 100% uptime unless you are a try hard speed runner. "use ballistics." "-use absorber and quickload decos - don't you have them?" that's not free, there is a opportunity cost attached to doing that. getting ballistics is a damage loss because you have to give up other skills. the 1 sloters for recoil + reload are not that big of a deal but it's still something that has to be apart of the set, it limits options. "- I don't even know where to start I'm just going to agree to disagree because there are too many holes here." holes? you don't need to be a mathematician to understand that lower raw + higher affinity weapons are going to come out on top of higher raw, lower affinity weapons. it's about diminishing returns, weapon slot count and how many recoil/reload/deviation mods it needs to be acceptable. "- Don't expect me to take of my shades and actually look when you just focus on like CF overheating and not even 10% of what i said in the video." what you said in the video is directly influenced by CF overheating. what you showed was that CF out did LBG with all of it's buffs and then you let it overheat, you never let it overheat. again it's like taking critical firepower and NOT being at the correct distance. that's NOT how you are suppose to use it. CF is a 5-12% dps increase over not using it, aka just firing constantly. that's several conditional armor skills you are leaving on the table.
exlosives and elemental seem to be HBG's only niches rn. Even Spreads just dont feel as good as LBG and LBG is still competent and more comfy at element. Level shot clusters do feel really strong though and I really dont use LBG stickies anymore, level cluster 3s is a really strong KO follow up and it finishes afflicted and elder dragon hunts much quicker.
I'll still use crouching fire normal hbg because it's just more fun than running around all over with the lbg. I wanna put on the doom soundtrack, plant myself, and dakka dakka dakka. Shame it's not as strong.
Haven't touched bowguns yet since I'm busy with melee weapons first (100 quests with different sets that complement my playstyle before touching range). Hopefully title update weapons could fill the missing gaps for certain weapons like the normal 3 hbg in the video. Hopefully, they introduce MR versions of the rampage weapons or something similar but using higher tier afflicted materials, if they ever introduce anomaly 5/6 quests. Could also be a great endgame grind than what we have right now.
If Crouching fire can roll, power run and back to Crouching again that would be a lot more interesting. Sure it's sounds like a busted Valor siege mode in GU but I think the only busted thing about valor siege is the ability to immediately reload whole siege clip when entering siege mode from power run, which in Sunbreak we have this cooldown mechanic instead. What I'm tryna say is: give Crouching fire the ability to roll off immediately and power run, keep that cool down on, it's would be a lot better to power run while waiting for the cool down to roll off.
Bruh you can roll immediately after crouching shot. Avoid overheat. Stop firing right before the gauge filled up. If you overheat you will stuck in recovery animation.
is there a way I can block this channel or you can block me so I don't have to see it anymore? I try to search for vids sometimes but end up with clickbait drama farming results I dont wanna see
I was gonna say, i really noticed a decline in HBG damage, like ive been using it in rise and in world but im being able to do more DPS per second with a SnS than with my HBG which makes me sad cuz I really like the having a cannon style weapon
@@nuke2099 what OP is saying is that they should have just brought OG siege mode back and that would have been 1000 times better than this next to useless "crouching fire".
I kind of feel like they were worried about HBG's DPS potential with Crouch Fire and and pre nerfed it. Although the buffs to Normal Ammo on Sunbreaks release included N3 for LBG, but not for HBG, they only buffed 1 and 2. Which might be contributing to the bloated damage from the LBG despite the lesser raw. I'm actually curious whether HBG would at least be able to keep up with LBG if Crouch had max fire rate from the first shot. At low recoil on N3 the first 3 to 4 shots feel a whole lot slower than just shooting normally.
HBG definitely needs bit of rework. Been playing more hbg lately since I'm a bit bored of lbg. Interestingly playing pierce using narga hbg is bringing back that fun gameplay for me. Also rlly need to learn spread hbg better. It's fun but its hard to always be in the face of a monster. Hitting any other part messes up the dps or just str8 up makes it useless.
Hbg has already been pretty sluggish in base Rise but now lbg has critical firepower? Yeah Hbg DEFINITELY needs some kind of rework or a significant buff
Everyone calls me schizo when I point out how dirty Rise in general made HBG, people think that because sticky has high DPS now all of the sudden HBG is all right, it really pains me to see how badly the weapon has been treated. I enjoy crouching fire but I'm well aware that is far from being optimal, I do hope that on the next game they treat the weapon better.
Yeah I don't really like what they've done with the bowguns. I actually would want LBG nerfed, that weapon has no business being that ridiculously powerful unlike HBG where the whole point is that it's slow and powerful. I wish they'd differentiate the weapons more, give HBG more of a heavy feeling in it's shots with bigger damage and impact with singular powerful shots with big damage but with lower rate of fire, and Wyvernheart style shots. LBG can represent the older style of shooting and ammo types. That'd make HBG really feel more like Heavy Bowgun instead of just slower LBG.
They don't even need to hard nerf the lbg, they just made bad decisions with damage up switch skills of the lbg. Explain to me why the heck a dodge also need to do damage or give a damage boost? I'm already getting benefits by moving out of the way of the attack!
been meaning to make a n3 build for a while so ig this is a sign to get started on it lol. also whats the layered chestpiece youve been using it looks so cool!
Out of curiosity, have you tested what the most efficient way is to sue crouching fir? I've noticed that in the videos I've watched you always show the crouching fire until overheat state which gives you a big cooldown, so I was wondering if that might actually be better than just stopping to shoot before overheating(which has a shot less but also less cooldown until you shoot again)?
THIS. Get out of crouching shot, and go in with your normal shots. When you get done reloading, Crouch shot should be cooled down to use again. HBG isn't brainless, you can get better results with some careful playing
@@Xesh better results maybe, but the point still stands. You're sacrificing safety for less damage by using an hbg over an lbg. It's just nonsense. I tried making it work with garangolm too. You can play n3 hbg, you're just going to be handicapping yourself sadly...
@@Xesh i tried it several times against anomaly rathian. I dunked it like 2 times even. but the downfall of N3 HBGs is when you get out of crouching fire.
I will happily change to lbg when they fix the weird input issue. That's the only thing that is keeping me with hbg, even if damage is not optimal. It's dumb that the lbg got dmg buffs for that kind of shot in comparison to hbg, and instead we got a multihit. Honestly, I wouldn't even mind the numbers if we had a counter option like adept style: a fast reload with extra damage for that clip and a small repositioning after evading an attack.
the input issue? You mean with the fire rate? it’s kind of weird since it still messes with guns in general - sometimes i feel the game just swallows the input and just makes your fire rate slow or something dunno
@@AngBata11 thats actually the only reason i go into Crouching Shot in Switch if I have a solid opening. I know this nonsense issue is avoided for sure with it.
HBG needed the return of valor siege mode proper. As the bowguns stand in Rise there's just no point in having the 2 different kinds, either in damage comparison or actual functionality.
HBG needs two things: having shield by default(and barrel/silencer as mod choices) and having the shield work while crouch firing(obviously, it gets interrupted when hit and doesn't work during recoil animation) Basically if it's going to lose all that damage + mobility, it better have safetynet of a shield for free.
@@EcchiRevenge plus it would be redundant because the silencer would make monsters attack you less and so therefore you are using your shield mod less.
@@AnimeALX Not at all. First of all that's irrelevant even in multiplayer(teammate positioning, plus damage matters). Second even if it works once in a blue moon, it's just another mechanic that helps to offset hbg's mobility impairment. Its lower recoil allows more ammo to become viable and lowered critical range incentivizes getting closer to monster(hence shield). In conclusion it's not redundant at all because everybody has multiple different ways of defending themselves. By your "logic" lbg silencer is redundant because it has counter mine.
@@EcchiRevenge well it would be redundant because you wouldn't be using the shield as much and also the devs wouldn't give a weapon that much security to the point where you have two strong defense options and be able to do a lot of dps.
Iirc theres a few pieces of good gunning armour with tune up 1 already, and they don't sacrifice anything because they've got other good skills or slots.
Ik this isn't a first world problem but you should change the armor pigment of your character's panties to red or black..... the blue clashes hard with the barbania chest.
I don’t think lbg should be nerfed or anything because asking for nerfs is taboo in the monster hunter community. But it really is clear that lbg is just busted as sin. Hbg is in a healthy spot in the game and doesn’t need a buff.
I usually hate the bowguns but the one thing that made me pick up heavy bowgun was Valor HBG in GU. I know what crouching shot is supposed to be and this ain't it Capcom. I was excited to see "siege mode"come back just to find out its a cheap bootleg version smh.
I use focus 3 and charge shot. Pacing is just much more fun than having a gatling. I swap to gatling when it's on the ground. They should add charge higher % dmg to full charge or range. Hoped to be able to snipe monsters without them being able to retaliate..
hey bro, why is the "blast attack" on my hbg doesn't have any animation, it supposed to have a red & black something while you're attacking on species ... thank you for your cooperation 🙌
@@nomisangle4233 it has no slots. Rampage sure. The garangolm hbg has 4-2-1 slots. Higher raw and also a level 3 Rampage slot. Whatever talisman you feed your demonlord beast buster will be better fed to a build with garangolm hbg.
Honestly, I don't understand to this day why people compare LBG with HBG. These are two different weapon types which do not share the same category, only very core mechanics such as being a bowgun. You don't compare HH with H, GS with LS or GL with L either. This vid is interesting, but it feeds more into this bowgun-comparison problem which people refuse to get away from for some reason.
So my thoughts as someone who’s been using N3 hbg with crouching fire as my go to: first of all, really don’t know if I can agree about the dmg. Sure, the on paper dmg is less than the lbg, but the dps in a hunt? There may be something there. The Golm gun is my go to gun for normal and spread, and using in the hunt, times for both with a similar comfy build end up being about the same. So if N3 is crap, how is this possible? Honestly, I’m going into CF any chance I get, not just when the monster is down, and therefore I’m skipping reloads more frequently. And I’m DEFINITELY using more ammo playing like this as many times at the end of a hunt I am totally out of gunpowder, which tends not to happen with other ammo. But honestly, I like being a turret. Plus you do seem to have a small amount of hyper armor. But either way, you showed us your self Ang that Hbg fires faster, so the devs clearly felt that lbg needed a boost and based on “on paper” numbers we’ve all decided it’s stronger, but if it’s not firing as fast, maybe the devs gave it crit fire to catch up to hbg in their own play testing. ….or maybe they’re just completely incompetent, I dunno 🤷♂️. Also, with frequent crouching fire use, the reload time basically becomes way less of and issue as you’re doing that considerably less, so if you can’t get to fast reload, just use counter charger to shorten cf cooldowns and go into it as much as possible. Anyhow, all I know is that at the end I like the feel of it. lbg just feels kinda boring this time around. With hbg I feel like I have to strategically place myself with a roll right into turret mode, fire off 12 (guys, NEVER go into overheat as a rule of thumb, showing us CF in a video but then always going into overheat is doing it a massive disservice. You fire off twelve, fire normally until cool down, and fire off twelve again. So that “test” you did at the end, not to be rude- just frank- is bunk, sorry. Overhearting doubles the cooldown. Avaoid it at all costs.) That being said, I DO agree that CF needs a buff. Either in total time we are allowed to shoot before overheating, or maybe allowing a skill like focus to reduce the speed of the “ramping up” effect. (It’s weird that Counter Charger reduces the overheat time by 30%, but focus does nothing.) preferably both. But yeah, try this in a hunt, not on a dummy. Try to go into CF as much as possible while avoiding the overheat. Cuz even if everyone is still right and it’s bad, then it at least gives Capcom more evidence that it needs a buff, cuz they’re not gonna fix something if everyone just pretends it doesn’t exist. Also, most of us aren’t speedrunners, 1 minute difference is no sweat to us.
I've tried on a hunt and on a dummy. I won't be releasing a video like this by jsut basing it on the dummy. I can even produce hunts side by side with a monster just to compare it but i don't think it's necessary at all. Most of the people that take the side of HBG are people having a bias to N3 HBG - why don't you try the LBG? and see how it feels. Seems majority are triggered why in the footage i let it overheat. I'm even thinking now if I should show side by side of not letting it overheat? Because even if it doesn't over heat - the lbg still catches up on the damage of an N3 heavybowgun with spareshot 3 on it with 100% affinity and has like 450 raw. and imo. Normal hunt? In a normal hunt you won't be able to pull off your crouching fire most of the time. Crouching fire's main purpose in the game right now is to utilize low clip and high recoil statuses on guns - not to deal dps. Everyone is saying counter charger. Okay. You do know that you lose counter charger when your character gets touched by anything .. right? I'm not saying crouching fire is NOT doable. Can't you see that you are doing SO MUCH just to out damage a small gun? That is the purpose of this video. That for me is weird. Can't you see how CLOSE the raw of LBG is to HBG? That is weird. Can't you see the BIG CLIP SIZES of LBG versus HBG? In MHWORLD a spread 3 LBG is miles away from a spread 3 HBG. A normal LBG in world is miles away from normal 3 HBG. You can see the main difference of LIGHT and HEAVY. Now, it seems messed up. For the raw ammo type that is - for element it's still gucci.
The truth isn't because of the damage, but the monster in Rise are too fucking anime that we need mobility and fast counter move to survive them. Capcom really want us to adopt counter gameplay in Rise and I really don't like it. It's is fine if they do it fast and the delay isn't too long, but HBG counter is just too clunky for me.
i wish that's the only case but I tried it on anomaly rathian. It's liek a training pole for N3. Even if I lock it down a bit with the N3 hbg.. the damage falls off everytime I get out of crouching fire.
Imo they should make counter charge negate overheating when crouching. Having it cool down the meter faster isnt really useful considering how useless crouching is for most ammo types. If we counter charge we should be rewarded. Charged shots get wayyy faster charge time but crouching gets basically nothing. Just double the overheat meter when charged or something. Especially with the charge disappearing on taking any damage thats mega skill issue.
@@Blackbupf even if they make counbter charge negate it.. coutner charge disappears the moment ANYTHING touches you which is really sad. At least make counter charge stay with a tackle
@@AngBata11 yeah that's why I think we should be rewarded for good play avoiding damage (the skill issue part). It's hard enough to do that but there's no real gain from tryharding counter charge atm no?
They should set crouching fire overheat as a buff to damage but not a debuff and be able to fire multiple charged ammo like MegaMan. It is all about damage, HBG users are good at maneuvering our bowguns, not like LBG users dodging around.
think them buffing shield would make us overlook a lot of hbgs other problems, but i know they wont do that they dont want us to be invincible again like in world
shields are fine in some match ups but i wouldnt call them “broken” what makes it weird is that most hbgs that go shied approach have raw that is almost reachable by an lbg which is weird
idk for me, I'd rather have the ring skills and crouching fire on lbg than what lbg has rn. it's just so stagnant. Even if they suck, at least hbg gets skills and ammo that at least TRY to change up how the weapon plays. Wyvernsnipe, and the machine gun special ammo are both so much cooler than anything the lbg has. The new counter feels unrewarding and idk what to say about mech wyvernshot except that it's meh. idk i just wish lbg got some fun and coolness injected to it instead of the stale, boring things it got.
Definitely leaning into elemental pierce, all the way. I like the idea of building elemental match-ups, in theory, but my only issue is that you just can't hold enough mats to last in a long hunt the way you can with raw ammo types. Just let us hold more, capcom, please.
Pierce HBG? Still gucci? And what choices do we have? Because right now I'm running the absolutely bonkers Nargacuga HBG. Avidya Gambit. Moving reload, moving fire on Pierce 3 and decent enough that I can bust it out if I'm not in the mood to use its baby brother Avidya Eye instead... Except even that's getting stale and I'd like new pierce HBG options.
You know LBG can do better even for this ammo? The only ammo type HBG can win is element pierce with circle, that's why you can't find team Exilr doing vid other than this ammo type
Give the HBG a new guage to fill that's done so by charging. Guage has 3 sections that designate level of attack boost HBG gets. Shots will drain the guage by a designated amount based on ammo used (stronger ammo drains more). Counter shot will be boosted based on guage level but won't drain it and Counter Charger will instantly fill guage to max while reloading currently selected ammo.
@@AngBata11 you know, proc offensive guard for the attack boost instead of leaning into power barrel? It's kindof a crackhead idea but I'm brainstorming trying to make it work Also, why not go with golm HBG and slot Daora's ramp up deco for 25-30 extra crit? Trying to think of anything here to crank out damage Granted I'm not as savvy with meta numbers so i could be way off
@@Xesh i know but - do you know how strict the timing is for offensive guard on a shield heavybowgun? not saying it’s not doable but you have to keep firing and block an attack the moment your recoil ends
@@AnimeALX Elemental reload is not good and shouldnt be used. See angbata prior video for more info. Rapid fire Elemental Pierce is consideraly weaker than HBG elemental. LBG should not use Rapid Fire Elemental if DPS is the only concern. Rapid Elemental is good but not great; again see angbata Elemental videos for more information. The mobility is nice for LBG but imo that isnt overcoming HBGs dps performance.
@@RujinFujin you obviously don't play LBG if you said elemental reload is bad. That is legit a 🤡 statement since it is a damage buff with little to no drawback if you know how to build. Yes pierce elemental is better on HBG hence why the HBG doesn't need a buff. It has it's own ammo types it's good at (pierce elemental, sticky/clusters, and spread.)
@@AnimeALX Yes but what you give up in the build is not worth it compared to using regular reload. If this was prior to Capcom changing it back to its original form in a patch id agree with you. But since they did change it i dont agree. In regards to the other things you said...that was the point of my first comment. HBG is doing fine with other ammo types so this video is not a big deal.
@@RujinFujin dude you are giving up fastest reload for fast reload for more damage which is 100% worth since fast and fastest reload isn't that huge of difference and if you're using the rathalos' LBG then you can get your fire ammo to fastest reload with elemental reload so you legit lose nothing. Btw elemental reload never got changed in the patch notes, all they did was just give you the description of status ammo getting the boost. What are you talking about?
HBG isn't weak, just crouching fire could use a small buff. I'm sorry but LBG is completely fucking broken in this game, it needed a massive nerf. Critical Firepower should not even exist. LBG needs to be nerfed and Bow is even more broken. Do not agree at all that LBG doesn't need nerfs, it breaks the game.
I switch to normal 3 on my garangolm when out of spread or when at distance. Sure its not as much dps but its kinda comfy and still hits decently. Great to see some more HBG love! Big pp gun is just so satisfying to shoot/roll around with
They did Crouching Fire so dirty with that stupid overheat gauge Should have just removed it, sped up the speed increase a bit so it doesn't take as long to get to max fire rate and just toned down the clip size for each ammo's crouching fire HBG already lost what made Valor style Crouching fire super strong that being the safety from the sheathe and run
It is the best spread LBG with crit tics doing around 50-60 per each. I have made this build as per AngBata's suggestions, it works as it should but just personally I am not that comfortable with using spread as You have to be really close to the monster and things tend to go very hectic in online hunts.
@@emilyp.4100 doing long barrel on the last boss lbg is the comfort version for the last boss spread lbg - the hell version is actually doing critical firepower with silencer - it’s strong for sure but.. not comfy
IMO, LBG is overperforming, and instead of just buffing HBG, i think LBG needs some nerfs. I’m saying this as an LBG/IG main. It’s just too strong right now. In world, LBGs tended to have worse recoils/reload for the stronger ammo and that was okay. I remember running Deviljho LBG in World and you have to choose between recoil or reload for your build, and it was meta for spread or sticky. Now in rise, it’s either a gun has the best recoil and best reload speed, or else it’s useless. Kinda boring.
Maybe increase sticky dmg and change how clusters work to be more like a ranged wyvernstake but remove stun value completely when fired by a hbg with the skill swap.
In MH-Rise Capcome definitely overdone it with the HBG nerfs. I mean in MH-World that thing was in a good spot ... now its just an overall bad weapon choice. You need up to 6 skills just for fcking utility to make that thing even work normally, and that's before you have installed any damage skill. And don't get me started on the necessity of defensive skills like blocking or holster-speed or dodge-distance. Because if you don't have at least one of those on max, your gameplay is "drinking health potions" and "riding the cart into camp". Because oh boy, almost everything can and will one-shot you. It's just insane how hard that thing got nerfed. Recoil, Reload, Range, Sharpshooter, Foil, Fokus, ... dude wtf? No other weapon needs so many Skills just to feel normal. Imagine you require for the GreatSword "Swingspeed, Weight Reduce, Pickupspeed, Sure-footed-Balance, Swing-Accuracy" and such nonsense just to bring the weapon on a level so it works like it does right now. It feels like the HBG is broken from the start, and you have to fix it before you can seriously use it. It's so tedious to build and not much fun to play... and i used that thing from JR000 to MR200 without changing the weapon typ once... With the high hopes its getting better in the late or endgame... what a joke. I just should have stayed with the GS.
Yes.. I'm aware that you can make garangolm hbg fastest reload but you lose that 50 raw. Pain.
The highest raw hbg that i didn't mention here is diablos which is around 410 raw with -30% affinity.
Gore Magala HBG / Kelbi HBG / Demonlord beast buster will all have lesser damage than this sadly. They won't even go up to 450 raw with a power barrel.
After playing with Normal 3 recently on HBG and rewatching your video, I somewhat disagree with your premise that that HBG should not play Normal 3 or imply that a person shouldn't use a specific ammo type outside of Shrapnel.
It would have been nice if you posted some footage of you playing Normal HBG as there is nothing to observe or compare. Thus, the only normal runs to go off of is the Korean/Japanese TA runs that use Normal ammo and seem to be fine with using Crouching Shot Normal against monsters like A.Rathian.
In your test dummy scenario, I don't think it shows the whole picture especially in actual combat. In your specific scenario, the HBG has the bigger clip size and due to HBG naturally having a lower recoil, the HBG will fire more shots than the LBG over time, as demonstrated in one of your videos as well other Ytber videos. Even further Crouching Shot puts out great Nromal DPS. Some people did a speedrun test of HBG Normal and LBG Normal against Teostra and Rathian and the HBG usually got a 20s+ better time than the LBG; but perhaps thats limited to those individuals, idk. Nevertheless, I don't think your dummy example was a fair comparison of Normal 3 DPS between HBG and LBG.
After playing around with Normals, I also believe the Kelbi HBG is still way better than Anjanth HBG from what I have played. Purely DPS, Kelbi loses at raw, but has the bigger clip size, no negative affinity, and better deco slots; including allowing for Kushala Soul. More importantly Kelbi HBG does not need a single point in Recoil/Reload and only 1 point in Steadiness for Temper. When put Kelbi HBG through the set builder it allows for alot of options that quickly makes up for its lack of raw imo. Kelbi is aalso a fantastic Blood Rite gun for anomalies.
Maybe I am wrong on all of this, but I hope you revisit Normal 3 HBG in the future after the updates because it seems to be performing fairly well in the HBG community; at least in comparison to LBG performance with Normal 3 as I don't think Normal 3 is a meta ammo.
Crouching fire would need to last like twice as long to make it good. Hopefully they can at least band-aid fix it by adding a skill that reduces heat buildup in the title updates.
probably last twice as long is too much - an instant fix would be the increase in the rate of fire.. i’d say it’s an easy fix
@@AngBata11 a way to decrease heat build up would be nice still since some ammo types can barely shot a few times without overheating
As a lover of the HBG, I wish they would buff just a tiny bit more or give it something more to stand with the LBG. As for what that thing should be, I don't know yet.
That thing is a nerf to LBGs to their recoils
HBG charge mechanic rework:
HBG gets a guage similar to Hunting Horn's new guage. Charging fills the guage. Shots drain guage but are powered up. Drain amount depends on ammo type. Counter shot will be boosted based on guage level but won't drain it. Counter Charger will instantly fill guage and reload current ammo.
@@mikaeldp they did nerf recoils but then they added a new skill to get rid of recoil!
Tune-up!
@@moosiemoose1337 so did they really nerf it? 😅
@@mikaeldp Exactly! What's the point of changing the recoil on a bunch of different ammo types if we just need to add in 1 skill and maybe a silencer?
Honestly, I think the HBG suffers from ammo recoil changes more than the lbg because the LBG gets silencer but HBGs don't get any additional recoil negation.
They should have made Crouching fire strong
lbg gets the option for 30% more damage and Hbg gets Crouching fire with huge attack speed
but they decided that crouching fire must be nerfed from GU even tho GUs Valor Siege was only Op because the fire rate and reload speed in that game is very slow
compared to rise recoil and reload speed im not even sure if a crouching fire with 13 shots for pierce would make it any better
Plus rise couching fire doesn’t have the same ability to escape punishment as valor siege which makes it more situational as you have to pick the right moment to unload the shots.
The Valor dodge was really what made it viable though.
@@Terminarch not just that the sprint from couch also had amazing potential as it allows for repositioning and evasion while not needing to rely on the dodge if dodge is not as good in that case. Plus the valor load also gave it alot of power.
@@Terminarch Ah, yes. Let's forget about the infinite dash sprint, the faster reload that buffed your bullets and ability to shoot all your ammo in siege mode like a psychopath and do bonkers dps from a safe distance. It was *just* the dodge that made it viable, not a combination of all these things. The s on dodge/slide were pog, but only one part of why it was so strong back then.
@@MrInsiipid Have you watched valor hbg deviant speedruns? It doesn't matter how much damage siege mode does if you get hit using it. If you had to wait a couple seconds to stand up before moving like in Sunbreak it would be completely unusable except on downs:
th-cam.com/video/Xkzl5pyhUFQ/w-d-xo.html
And I included the sprint in "dodging" but yeah should have been explicit.
Overall it just sucks that HBG specials and ammo mods are completely fucking useless.
Ramp up Wyvernfire, Wyvernsnipe, charged shots, crouch... even just add a % damage buff to the ring skills. Every single one of these things limits your mobility and are not viable damage options either. Bringing this up a bit would at least give HBG some playstyle identity separate from LBG and make it worth the increased risk.
I will never stop using normal 3 HBG, I will never stop using siege mode in any game its in.
Unless I kind find a build that makes use of normal 2
For the crouching fire, I find it useful. At the time you only have 1 ammo in your clip, instead of firing one more and reload, do a crouching fire and make sure you do not overheat so you can continue firing.
most uses of crouching fire is actually firing auto reload ammunition in other guns.
Crouch shot has been my bread and butter and i just woke up to the power of Normal 3 today. Crouch Shot 10 hits, then go through your normal clip, then reload, and repeat. Spare Shot can help give 2-4 more shots... but at the end of the quest, you just have to accept the devs gave us range, and gave LBG the damage. This ain't MHWorld HBG i guess.
Range is pretty useless. You don't need it when solo and your teammates don't want the monster jumping around because of you
@@Eaglelioncourt it does with critical firepower. That switch skill reduces your range making you have to get closer (but more DPS)
@@Eaglelioncourt it also has decreased range with the silencer mod on it.
Honestly, the range can be made absolutely pathetic.
If you get a hbg with rising moon, ballistic 3, and sniper 3, you'll be shooting from orbit.
The problem with range is that you need that range due to shit mobility.
You can get 12 shots outta normal 3, just count them out and eventually you’ll get a feel for it.
i think they should change the Setting Sun swtich skil to just simply increasing damage rather than increasing the tick per shot. it would help HBG to atleast catch up with LBG in term of damage. why is LBG have 2 switch skill to buff damage and HBG got nada? both charge shot and crouching shot is mediocre at doing what they do.
I honestly think HBG needs more love, people obviously will pick LBG over it because of the movement it has and the damage numbers are good as well. But I do think HBG needs more attention and more builds to be able to compete like it did in Monster Hunter Horld.
Shield Shotgun HBGs still feel good, but yeah, I feel that LBG is really hogging the spotlight compared to its big bro.
That said though, explosive HBG (Antique Machina) over LBGs. Damage and the ability to yeet Clusters without even crouching is just too good.
@@RenkaKurogane agreed
It is because HBG was incredibly broken in the last two MonHunt games (Gu, Worldborne) so they buffed LBG and now people prefer it due to the mobility.
It wasnt really a competition in world, hbg was way stronger, this time it's closer than it has ever been, with LBG finally having the upper hand for general use
@@hua.. was a competition when u have people speed running with , dual blades , long sword , and bow in world
HBG needs the compression mechanic from Frontier. Being able to compress your clip size to 1 bullet then shoot is a game changer for HBG.
I was happy when they introduced charged shots as that was a main mechanic with Frontier HBG but it feels wasted when you only use it for a single bullet, as you’ll get more dps if you shoot normally.
Yeah, it's kind of strange how both of the new firing modes they gave to heavy bowgun, charge shot and crouching fire, both are just kind of... bad.
I just wish they gave heavy bowgun better damage per bullet and range than the light bowgun so I could use it for sniping, but currently light bowgun seems to be better at that too, due to long barrel. Unless I intend to sacrifice my counter for the ability to create rings that increase range...
being the Main HBG, the only 3 ammo type i use is, sticky ammo, slash ammo build, and spread ammo III Build, never can go wrong with these 3 type of ammo and build
Garangolm Crouching Fire Normal 3 is what got me to endgame, and while it may not have been quick, it was still enjoyable nonetheless to utilize it the moments it's perfect for (monster's showboating, topple/ko/para, etc.)
Tie in Rising Moon and being able to stay ten miles back like Pierce can, it can be really comfy despite being outperformed by the contending LBG. Then again, LBG Critical Firepower works opposite of RM, being that you need to be closer and play riskier to get an increase to damage, while RM lets you play a good bit safer by staying further away while still enabling your damage.
The garangolm lbg can fit so much that critical fire power is actually comfy - there is more risk running an hbg.
If they dont buff other more nuanced areas of HBGs, they need to just give them a flat 100 extra base raw.
I would prefer some general mag size, and by default lower recoil and faster reloads and rate of fire though.
At very high level play or with a competent set builder, they DO do more damage than LBGs, but its not by a very large amount. its hard to notice it unless you have the hard numbers to compare back to back.
As it is though, yeah, HBGs give up WAY too much in comparison for far too little return on that investment. You lose your mobility, which in this game is a huge deal because the monsters are tuned to you being hyper mobile. You lose variety of ammos, and most of the time lose any useful status ammos. You lose your fast stow time for item usage. You lose a LOT. In turn you recieve bigger primary ammo magazines by a bit, (but insulting status mag size if you even have one worth using at all), a special ammo type that is litterally not worth using as you're losing dps and making yourself vulnerable in preparing and shooting it, situational and kinda bad wirebug moves.. and like 8% more dps if you do everything right. Keep in mind, you WILL cart more with hbg than lbg, even if you are gods gift to gunners, simply due to mobility.. which is a dps reduction, if not a failiure condition.
HBGs just need straight up more damage dealing ability, or better innate stats such that you can fit more skills onto them... and for gods sake please buff wyvernheart/snipe enough to actually be worth using. The state they are in in this game and the previous is criminal, straight up noob trap. The switch skills besides the guard point all need work too.
You really said everything was to be said on HBG issues
This is why I'm still using wyverns fire HBG on diablos canon still does tons of dmg and kills monsters fast.
Crouching fire just isn't very useful in a game with guns that have lowest recoil and fastest reload. They also gave LBG all the damage increasing options meanwhile HBG gets crouching fire and charged shot....
Charged shots are pretty much useless imo, crouching tho is nice. Even if you consider that you can shoot normally when you know the monster won't move (after some attacks or when toppled) I use crouching fire, not only it deals good damage (using a pierce 3 hbg) but when I've shot my 7-8 shots of crouching I can just keep going with my clip size being full!
@@undertaker2766 Crouching fire is nice at first, but it falls off once you get better guns, spare shot, load up, recoil and reload speed.
@@undertaker2766 nah charging can be useful with stickies, elemental, and of course wyvern fire. Coincidentally these are HBG's strongest ammos atm whereas crouch is just dogshit no matter what
@@LordWallace It can be nice on shield spread HBG, too. If the monster is midturn or moving and you want to ensure you hit the best spot, you can charge it once or twice in the meanwhile and it does respectable damage. Also lets you play safe if you aren't sure what the monster is about to do, since you'll still block if you're holding the charge. People calling Charge Shots useless are just being silly.
CF can't catch up? it did 50% more damage in the same time frame as a buffed LBG but for some unreasonable reason you let CF overheat. it would be like taking critical firepower but then not standing at perfect critical distance.....you see how honestly stupid that is? in a real battle you are FAR more likely to mess up critical distance then you are to overheat CF.
also while critical firepower DOES increase damage per shot, it DOES increase recoil (which is a direct DPS loss, recoil is pretty much attack speed) and also makes critical distance very small which means having to be a super try hard and if you are going to be a try hard, might as well go spread.
second to last if you are going HBG, you go for CRITS first THEN raw, as where with LBG you have the option to go for raw or crit.
finally, the HIGHEST raw weapon isn't the BEST DPS weapon (this applies to ALL weapons). you actually want LOWER raw and higher AFFINITY + most slots possible because it's soooooooooo easy to get tons and tons of raw from skills + might seed + powder + demon drink.
if you truly want to see the little glimmer of light that HBG has then take off your shades and actually LOOK.
yep. I'm looking man
"you see how honestly stupid that is? in a real battle you are FAR more likely to mess up critical distance then you are to overheat CF."
- use ballistics.
"also while critical firepower DOES increase damage per shot, it DOES increase recoil (which is a direct DPS loss, recoil is pretty much attack speed) and also makes critical distance very small which means having to be a super try hard and if you are going to be a try hard, might as well go spread."
-use absorber and quickload decos - don't you have them?
"second to last if you are going HBG, you go for CRITS first THEN raw, as where with LBG you have the option to go for raw or crit.
finally, the HIGHEST raw weapon isn't the BEST DPS weapon (this applies to ALL weapons). you actually want LOWER raw and higher AFFINITY + most slots possible because it's soooooooooo easy to get tons and tons of raw from skills + might seed + powder + demon drink."
- I don't even know where to start I'm just going to agree to disagree because there are too many holes here.
"if you truly want to see the little glimmer of light that HBG has then take off your shades and actually LOOK."
- Don't expect me to take of my shades and actually look when you just focus on like CF overheating and not even 10% of what i said in the video.
@@AngBata11
"yep. I'm looking man"
no you are not, you are blinded by your bias. aka not accounting for downtime on critical firepower/fanning maneuver. your not always going to be at perfect distance nor are you going to be at the perfect angle to use either of those. this applies to HBG CF as well, it's not something you just do when it's available, you are not going to have 100% uptime unless you are a try hard speed runner.
"use ballistics." "-use absorber and quickload decos - don't you have them?"
that's not free, there is a opportunity cost attached to doing that. getting ballistics is a damage loss because you have to give up other skills. the 1 sloters for recoil + reload are not that big of a deal but it's still something that has to be apart of the set, it limits options.
"- I don't even know where to start I'm just going to agree to disagree because there are too many holes here."
holes? you don't need to be a mathematician to understand that lower raw + higher affinity weapons are going to come out on top of higher raw, lower affinity weapons. it's about diminishing returns, weapon slot count and how many recoil/reload/deviation mods it needs to be acceptable.
"- Don't expect me to take of my shades and actually look when you just focus on like CF overheating and not even 10% of what i said in the video."
what you said in the video is directly influenced by CF overheating. what you showed was that CF out did LBG with all of it's buffs and then you let it overheat, you never let it overheat. again it's like taking critical firepower and NOT being at the correct distance. that's NOT how you are suppose to use it.
CF is a 5-12% dps increase over not using it, aka just firing constantly. that's several conditional armor skills you are leaving on the table.
exlosives and elemental seem to be HBG's only niches rn. Even Spreads just dont feel as good as LBG and LBG is still competent and more comfy at element. Level shot clusters do feel really strong though and I really dont use LBG stickies anymore, level cluster 3s is a really strong KO follow up and it finishes afflicted and elder dragon hunts much quicker.
Still make the builds to have your fun I believe in ya
I'll still use crouching fire normal hbg because it's just more fun than running around all over with the lbg. I wanna put on the doom soundtrack, plant myself, and dakka dakka dakka. Shame it's not as strong.
Haven't touched bowguns yet since I'm busy with melee weapons first (100 quests with different sets that complement my playstyle before touching range). Hopefully title update weapons could fill the missing gaps for certain weapons like the normal 3 hbg in the video.
Hopefully, they introduce MR versions of the rampage weapons or something similar but using higher tier afflicted materials, if they ever introduce anomaly 5/6 quests. Could also be a great endgame grind than what we have right now.
Or just make anomaly weapons
If Crouching fire can roll, power run and back to Crouching again that would be a lot more interesting. Sure it's sounds like a busted Valor siege mode in GU but I think the only busted thing about valor siege is the ability to immediately reload whole siege clip when entering siege mode from power run, which in Sunbreak we have this cooldown mechanic instead.
What I'm tryna say is: give Crouching fire the ability to roll off immediately and power run, keep that cool down on, it's would be a lot better to power run while waiting for the cool down to roll off.
Bruh you can roll immediately after crouching shot. Avoid overheat. Stop firing right before the gauge filled up. If you overheat you will stuck in recovery animation.
IL it again....the Crouching Fire initial rate of fire should be as fast as the regular RoF
is there a way I can block this channel or you can block me so I don't have to see it anymore? I try to search for vids sometimes but end up with clickbait drama farming results I dont wanna see
I was gonna say, i really noticed a decline in HBG damage, like ive been using it in rise and in world but im being able to do more DPS per second with a SnS than with my HBG which makes me sad cuz I really like the having a cannon style weapon
Crouching fire should have been the same as in the old monster hunter games...
You mean just GU. Valor HBG is the only version that's similar and no other game had anything like Crouching Fire.
@@nuke2099 what OP is saying is that they should have just brought OG siege mode back and that would have been 1000 times better than this next to useless "crouching fire".
@@HenshinFanatic The OG version was broken. I know what they're saying.
I kind of feel like they were worried about HBG's DPS potential with Crouch Fire and and pre nerfed it.
Although the buffs to Normal Ammo on Sunbreaks release included N3 for LBG, but not for HBG, they only buffed 1 and 2.
Which might be contributing to the bloated damage from the LBG despite the lesser raw.
I'm actually curious whether HBG would at least be able to keep up with LBG if Crouch had max fire rate from the first shot.
At low recoil on N3 the first 3 to 4 shots feel a whole lot slower than just shooting normally.
wtf are they thinking with the heat its like already balanced compared to valor cause no run
Look how they massacred my hbg's.
HBG isn't in a great spot in SB. Phemeto came to the same conclusion; There isn't a reason to make N3 HBG, and its because LBG's just do it better.
I hope the next title update will give us something equivalent to glutton.
HBG definitely needs bit of rework. Been playing more hbg lately since I'm a bit bored of lbg. Interestingly playing pierce using narga hbg is bringing back that fun gameplay for me. Also rlly need to learn spread hbg better. It's fun but its hard to always be in the face of a monster. Hitting any other part messes up the dps or just str8 up makes it useless.
Hbg has already been pretty sluggish in base Rise but now lbg has critical firepower? Yeah Hbg DEFINITELY needs some kind of rework or a significant buff
Everyone calls me schizo when I point out how dirty Rise in general made HBG, people think that because sticky has high DPS now all of the sudden HBG is all right, it really pains me to see how badly the weapon has been treated.
I enjoy crouching fire but I'm well aware that is far from being optimal, I do hope that on the next game they treat the weapon better.
Yeah I don't really like what they've done with the bowguns. I actually would want LBG nerfed, that weapon has no business being that ridiculously powerful unlike HBG where the whole point is that it's slow and powerful. I wish they'd differentiate the weapons more, give HBG more of a heavy feeling in it's shots with bigger damage and impact with singular powerful shots with big damage but with lower rate of fire, and Wyvernheart style shots. LBG can represent the older style of shooting and ammo types. That'd make HBG really feel more like Heavy Bowgun instead of just slower LBG.
They don't even need to hard nerf the lbg, they just made bad decisions with damage up switch skills of the lbg.
Explain to me why the heck a dodge also need to do damage or give a damage boost?
I'm already getting benefits by moving out of the way of the attack!
No, i dont think i will. *looks off into the distance smuggly*
been meaning to make a n3 build for a while so ig this is a sign to get started on it lol.
also whats the layered chestpiece youve been using it looks so cool!
Barbania, collect locked chests from the "Letter of Introduction" boosted Argosy.
Out of curiosity, have you tested what the most efficient way is to sue crouching fir? I've noticed that in the videos I've watched you always show the crouching fire until overheat state which gives you a big cooldown, so I was wondering if that might actually be better than just stopping to shoot before overheating(which has a shot less but also less cooldown until you shoot again)?
THIS. Get out of crouching shot, and go in with your normal shots. When you get done reloading, Crouch shot should be cooled down to use again. HBG isn't brainless, you can get better results with some careful playing
@@Xesh better results maybe, but the point still stands. You're sacrificing safety for less damage by using an hbg over an lbg. It's just nonsense. I tried making it work with garangolm too. You can play n3 hbg, you're just going to be handicapping yourself sadly...
@@Xesh i tried it several times against anomaly rathian. I dunked it like 2 times even. but the downfall of N3 HBGs is when you get out of crouching fire.
I am using the Gore Magala HBG for Normal 3s. It just doesn’t have any slot but all you need is 1 quickload.
I will happily change to lbg when they fix the weird input issue. That's the only thing that is keeping me with hbg, even if damage is not optimal. It's dumb that the lbg got dmg buffs for that kind of shot in comparison to hbg, and instead we got a multihit. Honestly, I wouldn't even mind the numbers if we had a counter option like adept style: a fast reload with extra damage for that clip and a small repositioning after evading an attack.
the input issue? You mean with the fire rate? it’s kind of weird since it still messes with guns in general - sometimes i feel the game just swallows the input and just makes your fire rate slow or something dunno
@@AngBata11 thats actually the only reason i go into Crouching Shot in Switch if I have a solid opening. I know this nonsense issue is avoided for sure with it.
I guess they thought hey heavy bow gun has a shield let’s nerf the dps
Hbg is still nuts, I do not see the problem
HBG needed the return of valor siege mode proper. As the bowguns stand in Rise there's just no point in having the 2 different kinds, either in damage comparison or actual functionality.
HBG needs two things: having shield by default(and barrel/silencer as mod choices) and having the shield work while crouch firing(obviously, it gets interrupted when hit and doesn't work during recoil animation)
Basically if it's going to lose all that damage + mobility, it better have safetynet of a shield for free.
The shield mod is supposed to be HBG's exclusive and not a silencer. That wouldn't make any sense.
@@AnimeALX Makes perfect sense, shield would still be HBG exclusive.
@@EcchiRevenge plus it would be redundant because the silencer would make monsters attack you less and so therefore you are using your shield mod less.
@@AnimeALX Not at all.
First of all that's irrelevant even in multiplayer(teammate positioning, plus damage matters).
Second even if it works once in a blue moon, it's just another mechanic that helps to offset hbg's mobility impairment. Its lower recoil allows more ammo to become viable and lowered critical range incentivizes getting closer to monster(hence shield).
In conclusion it's not redundant at all because everybody has multiple different ways of defending themselves. By your "logic" lbg silencer is redundant because it has counter mine.
@@EcchiRevenge well it would be redundant because you wouldn't be using the shield as much and also the devs wouldn't give a weapon that much security to the point where you have two strong defense options and be able to do a lot of dps.
How high would you rate the skill "Tune Up" 2 on a charm?
Iirc theres a few pieces of good gunning armour with tune up 1 already, and they don't sacrifice anything because they've got other good skills or slots.
Trash, tune up 2 just gives you 10 attack and it costs you 4 effective slots if your charm has no slot at all
Ik this isn't a first world problem but you should change the armor pigment of your character's panties to red or black..... the blue clashes hard with the barbania chest.
hehe
I use HBG against crap hitzone monsters, loves my Rocket Launcher aka Antique Machina HB. Everything else I use LBG, it's extremely versatile
I don’t think lbg should be nerfed or anything because asking for nerfs is taboo in the monster hunter community. But it really is clear that lbg is just busted as sin. Hbg is in a healthy spot in the game and doesn’t need a buff.
No one is making this all I see is nargacuga pierce builds and NOTHING else
Shit I wish I saw more hbg seriously it's so nice but it's all LBG LBG LBG LBG aaaaaaaaaaaa
I usually hate the bowguns but the one thing that made me pick up heavy bowgun was Valor HBG in GU. I know what crouching shot is supposed to be and this ain't it Capcom. I was excited to see "siege mode"come back just to find out its a cheap bootleg version smh.
I use focus 3 and charge shot. Pacing is just much more fun than having a gatling. I swap to gatling when it's on the ground.
They should add charge higher % dmg to full charge or range. Hoped to be able to snipe monsters without them being able to retaliate..
hey bro, why is the "blast attack" on my hbg doesn't have any animation, it supposed to have a red & black something while you're attacking on species ... thank you for your cooperation 🙌
I appreciate the info 🙏🏼
How about a build for people who don't give a toss about having optimal anything and just want to have fun shooting monsters with a big gun?
I feel like Furious Rajang HBG should be part of this conversation
it has 350 base raw. If an hbg with 400 base raw with 100 affinity can’t keep up with the lbg.. how can 350 make up for it?
@@AngBata11 still it is a do-able option because of the rampage slot
@@nomisangle4233 it has no slots. Rampage sure.
The garangolm hbg has 4-2-1 slots.
Higher raw and also a level 3 Rampage slot.
Whatever talisman you feed your demonlord beast buster will be better fed to a build with garangolm hbg.
Honestly, I don't understand to this day why people compare LBG with HBG. These are two different weapon types which do not share the same category, only very core mechanics such as being a bowgun. You don't compare HH with H, GS with LS or GL with L either. This vid is interesting, but it feeds more into this bowgun-comparison problem which people refuse to get away from for some reason.
How i miss brave hbg.
and capcoms response will be to nerf again instead of buffing the HBG the LBG might just get a damage nerf >.>
So my thoughts as someone who’s been using N3 hbg with crouching fire as my go to: first of all, really don’t know if I can agree about the dmg. Sure, the on paper dmg is less than the lbg, but the dps in a hunt? There may be something there. The Golm gun is my go to gun for normal and spread, and using in the hunt, times for both with a similar comfy build end up being about the same. So if N3 is crap, how is this possible? Honestly, I’m going into CF any chance I get, not just when the monster is down, and therefore I’m skipping reloads more frequently. And I’m DEFINITELY using more ammo playing like this as many times at the end of a hunt I am totally out of gunpowder, which tends not to happen with other ammo.
But honestly, I like being a turret. Plus you do seem to have a small amount of hyper armor. But either way, you showed us your self Ang that Hbg fires faster, so the devs clearly felt that lbg needed a boost and based on “on paper” numbers we’ve all decided it’s stronger, but if it’s not firing as fast, maybe the devs gave it crit fire to catch up to hbg in their own play testing. ….or maybe they’re just completely incompetent, I dunno 🤷♂️. Also, with frequent crouching fire use, the reload time basically becomes way less of and issue as you’re doing that considerably less, so if you can’t get to fast reload, just use counter charger to shorten cf cooldowns and go into it as much as possible.
Anyhow, all I know is that at the end I like the feel of it. lbg just feels kinda boring this time around. With hbg I feel like I have to strategically place myself with a roll right into turret mode, fire off 12 (guys, NEVER go into overheat as a rule of thumb, showing us CF in a video but then always going into overheat is doing it a massive disservice. You fire off twelve, fire normally until cool down, and fire off twelve again. So that “test” you did at the end, not to be rude- just frank- is bunk, sorry. Overhearting doubles the cooldown. Avaoid it at all costs.) That being said, I DO agree that CF needs a buff. Either in total time we are allowed to shoot before overheating, or maybe allowing a skill like focus to reduce the speed of the “ramping up” effect. (It’s weird that Counter Charger reduces the overheat time by 30%, but focus does nothing.) preferably both.
But yeah, try this in a hunt, not on a dummy. Try to go into CF as much as possible while avoiding the overheat. Cuz even if everyone is still right and it’s bad, then it at least gives Capcom more evidence that it needs a buff, cuz they’re not gonna fix something if everyone just pretends it doesn’t exist.
Also, most of us aren’t speedrunners, 1 minute difference is no sweat to us.
I've tried on a hunt and on a dummy. I won't be releasing a video like this by jsut basing it on the dummy. I can even produce hunts side by side with a monster just to compare it but i don't think it's necessary at all. Most of the people that take the side of HBG are people having a bias to N3 HBG - why don't you try the LBG? and see how it feels.
Seems majority are triggered why in the footage i let it overheat.
I'm even thinking now if I should show side by side of not letting it overheat? Because even if it doesn't over heat - the lbg still catches up on the damage of an N3 heavybowgun with spareshot 3 on it with 100% affinity and has like 450 raw.
and imo. Normal hunt? In a normal hunt you won't be able to pull off your crouching fire most of the time. Crouching fire's main purpose in the game right now is to utilize low clip and high recoil statuses on guns - not to deal dps.
Everyone is saying counter charger. Okay. You do know that you lose counter charger when your character gets touched by anything .. right?
I'm not saying crouching fire is NOT doable. Can't you see that you are doing SO MUCH just to out damage a small gun? That is the purpose of this video. That for me is weird.
Can't you see how CLOSE the raw of LBG is to HBG? That is weird. Can't you see the BIG CLIP SIZES of LBG versus HBG?
In MHWORLD a spread 3 LBG is miles away from a spread 3 HBG. A normal LBG in world is miles away from normal 3 HBG.
You can see the main difference of LIGHT and HEAVY. Now, it seems messed up.
For the raw ammo type that is - for element it's still gucci.
The truth isn't because of the damage, but the monster in Rise are too fucking anime that we need mobility and fast counter move to survive them. Capcom really want us to adopt counter gameplay in Rise and I really don't like it. It's is fine if they do it fast and the delay isn't too long, but HBG counter is just too clunky for me.
i wish that's the only case but I tried it on anomaly rathian. It's liek a training pole for N3. Even if I lock it down a bit with the N3 hbg.. the damage falls off everytime I get out of crouching fire.
Imo they should make counter charge negate overheating when crouching. Having it cool down the meter faster isnt really useful considering how useless crouching is for most ammo types. If we counter charge we should be rewarded. Charged shots get wayyy faster charge time but crouching gets basically nothing. Just double the overheat meter when charged or something. Especially with the charge disappearing on taking any damage thats mega skill issue.
@@Blackbupf even if they make counbter charge negate it.. coutner charge disappears the moment ANYTHING touches you which is really sad. At least make counter charge stay with a tackle
@@AngBata11 yeah that's why I think we should be rewarded for good play avoiding damage (the skill issue part). It's hard enough to do that but there's no real gain from tryharding counter charge atm no?
They should set crouching fire overheat as a buff to damage but not a debuff and be able to fire multiple charged ammo like MegaMan. It is all about damage, HBG users are good at maneuvering our bowguns, not like LBG users dodging around.
bruuuuh I really want to build the n3 lbg asap, screw the exams😩 I'll play the shit out of sunbreak once the last ones are over
think them buffing shield would make us overlook a lot of hbgs other problems, but i know they wont do that they dont want us to be invincible again like in world
shields are fine in some match ups but i wouldnt call them “broken” what makes it weird is that most hbgs that go shied approach have raw that is almost reachable by an lbg which is weird
HBG is quite bad until I put a SHIELD on it.
idk for me, I'd rather have the ring skills and crouching fire on lbg than what lbg has rn. it's just so stagnant. Even if they suck, at least hbg gets skills and ammo that at least TRY to change up how the weapon plays. Wyvernsnipe, and the machine gun special ammo are both so much cooler than anything the lbg has. The new counter feels unrewarding and idk what to say about mech wyvernshot except that it's meh. idk i just wish lbg got some fun and coolness injected to it instead of the stale, boring things it got.
Definitely leaning into elemental pierce, all the way. I like the idea of building elemental match-ups, in theory, but my only issue is that you just can't hold enough mats to last in a long hunt the way you can with raw ammo types. Just let us hold more, capcom, please.
What does everyone mean when they say, "a basic 3 2 1 talisman"?
it means you can use whatever talisman with lv 3 2 1 slots
Pierce HBG? Still gucci? And what choices do we have?
Because right now I'm running the absolutely bonkers Nargacuga HBG. Avidya Gambit. Moving reload, moving fire on Pierce 3 and decent enough that I can bust it out if I'm not in the mood to use its baby brother Avidya Eye instead...
Except even that's getting stale and I'd like new pierce HBG options.
i think the s.magala hbg is decent, has 40% affinity so you can skip out on crit eye for some comfort
Malzeno's HBG is also pretty good, not to mention slick looking.
Elemental HBGs are also performing insanely well.
You know LBG can do better even for this ammo? The only ammo type HBG can win is element pierce with circle, that's why you can't find team Exilr doing vid other than this ammo type
@@simonkwok736 HBG has the better Artillery as well for monsters that arnt weak to element.
Where my Magnamalo LBG endgame set?
What's the leg layered armor your using? I can't find info on it.
sailor
Give the HBG a new guage to fill that's done so by charging. Guage has 3 sections that designate level of attack boost HBG gets. Shots will drain the guage by a designated amount based on ammo used (stronger ammo drains more). Counter shot will be boosted based on guage level but won't drain it and Counter Charger will instantly fill guage to max while reloading currently selected ammo.
What if we do Shield+Offensive Guard, and save that Tune-up 2 for something else
what?
@@AngBata11 you know, proc offensive guard for the attack boost instead of leaning into power barrel? It's kindof a crackhead idea but I'm brainstorming trying to make it work
Also, why not go with golm HBG and slot Daora's ramp up deco for 25-30 extra crit? Trying to think of anything here to crank out damage
Granted I'm not as savvy with meta numbers so i could be way off
@@Xesh i know but - do you know how strict the timing is for offensive guard on a shield heavybowgun?
not saying it’s not doable but you have to keep firing and block an attack the moment your recoil ends
I like this HBG build! Its perfect for us dirty casuals. :)
What is the layered armor?!!!!what is that cape?!pls tell me
I dont see how this is an issue. I think Capcom wants HBG to perform better with Elemental/Status/Artillery while LBG is better with Raw ammos.
Even then LBG is still better elemental due to quickstep evade and elemental reload and rapid fire w/ rapid fire up
@@AnimeALX Elemental reload is not good and shouldnt be used. See angbata prior video for more info. Rapid fire Elemental Pierce is consideraly weaker than HBG elemental. LBG should not use Rapid Fire Elemental if DPS is the only concern. Rapid Elemental is good but not great; again see angbata Elemental videos for more information.
The mobility is nice for LBG but imo that isnt overcoming HBGs dps performance.
@@RujinFujin you obviously don't play LBG if you said elemental reload is bad. That is legit a 🤡 statement since it is a damage buff with little to no drawback if you know how to build. Yes pierce elemental is better on HBG hence why the HBG doesn't need a buff. It has it's own ammo types it's good at (pierce elemental, sticky/clusters, and spread.)
@@AnimeALX Yes but what you give up in the build is not worth it compared to using regular reload. If this was prior to Capcom changing it back to its original form in a patch id agree with you. But since they did change it i dont agree.
In regards to the other things you said...that was the point of my first comment. HBG is doing fine with other ammo types so this video is not a big deal.
@@RujinFujin dude you are giving up fastest reload for fast reload for more damage which is 100% worth since fast and fastest reload isn't that huge of difference and if you're using the rathalos' LBG then you can get your fire ammo to fastest reload with elemental reload so you legit lose nothing. Btw elemental reload never got changed in the patch notes, all they did was just give you the description of status ammo getting the boost. What are you talking about?
Is there an endgame set for Magnamalo LBG Sticky/Slicing LBG?
will work on it this week
so why not zinogre? nat affinity, move shoot/reload and a decent clip?
low raw
Ugly bike. Bring us back the railgun in World
What about pierce hbg?..im currently using narga.
So more sadness for HBG users T_T
HBG isn't weak, just crouching fire could use a small buff. I'm sorry but LBG is completely fucking broken in this game, it needed a massive nerf. Critical Firepower should not even exist. LBG needs to be nerfed and Bow is even more broken.
Do not agree at all that LBG doesn't need nerfs, it breaks the game.
I switch to normal 3 on my garangolm when out of spread or when at distance. Sure its not as much dps but its kinda comfy and still hits decently.
Great to see some more HBG love! Big pp gun is just so satisfying to shoot/roll around with
I just tried shield HGB, its brain off mode. Not bad for farming easy monsters
For those wondering why HBG suffers, consider this as HBG is paying the debt for being so OP in brave style in XX.
(P.s. I am a fiver)
They did Crouching Fire so dirty with that stupid overheat gauge
Should have just removed it, sped up the speed increase a bit so it doesn't take as long to get to max fire rate and just toned down the clip size for each ammo's crouching fire
HBG already lost what made Valor style Crouching fire super strong that being the safety from the sheathe and run
First of all, awesome vids and insights as always AngBata... next.. "MOM!! I'm in a youtube video!!!
Is this HBG being balanced for once while LBG remains more powerful than ever?
i actually dunno
Ay yo I'm in the screenshots!
So Golm LBG is the best N3 over Gais?
didn’t really try to make a build for gais as N3 lbg since I’m really going for comfiness and golm cannjust fit a lot
So is the final boss lbg better for normal 3 compared to garangolem lbg?
No its better for Spread 3.
It is the best spread LBG with crit tics doing around 50-60 per each. I have made this build as per AngBata's suggestions, it works as it should but just personally I am not that comfortable with using spread as You have to be really close to the monster and things tend to go very hectic in online hunts.
@@emilyp.4100 doing long barrel on the last boss lbg is the comfort version for the last boss spread lbg - the hell version is actually doing critical firepower with silencer - it’s strong for sure but.. not comfy
@@AngBata11 Wow! Thanks for the insight - I did not think about this possibility and went with the hell option :)
I use rajang hbg thunder lord for the crit build
I want an IG with 450 atk, like what the hell?
Where the shrapnel builds at?
hehe
Anybody know what leg part he using for layered armor?
Isn't that the Sailor armor?
IMO, LBG is overperforming, and instead of just buffing HBG, i think LBG needs some nerfs. I’m saying this as an LBG/IG main. It’s just too strong right now.
In world, LBGs tended to have worse recoils/reload for the stronger ammo and that was okay. I remember running Deviljho LBG in World and you have to choose between recoil or reload for your build, and it was meta for spread or sticky.
Now in rise, it’s either a gun has the best recoil and best reload speed, or else it’s useless. Kinda boring.
Hbg can charge the shots though
What layered greaves is that?
Sailor
@@sanguinetales thanks man..
Slot in Focus level 3 😎😂
Rapid fire normal 2 no good, Sir?
not more than n3
Ty
After using your lbg n3 build I ditched my old hbg n3
Bring sticky back let them be cheesy and juicy
Maybe increase sticky dmg and change how clusters work to be more like a ranged wyvernstake but remove stun value completely when fired by a hbg with the skill swap.
@@failegion7828 that would be cool
Ang, why does your crafting cost 0?
reframework mods bugged out
Hit like coz cixot's smouldering character is there🤣
I honestly dislike how heavy handed the LBG is pushed in this game.
In MH-Rise Capcome definitely overdone it with the HBG nerfs. I mean in MH-World that thing was in a good spot ... now its just an overall bad weapon choice. You need up to 6 skills just for fcking utility to make that thing even work normally, and that's before you have installed any damage skill. And don't get me started on the necessity of defensive skills like blocking or holster-speed or dodge-distance. Because if you don't have at least one of those on max, your gameplay is "drinking health potions" and "riding the cart into camp". Because oh boy, almost everything can and will one-shot you. It's just insane how hard that thing got nerfed. Recoil, Reload, Range, Sharpshooter, Foil, Fokus, ... dude wtf? No other weapon needs so many Skills just to feel normal. Imagine you require for the GreatSword "Swingspeed, Weight Reduce, Pickupspeed, Sure-footed-Balance, Swing-Accuracy" and such nonsense just to bring the weapon on a level so it works like it does right now. It feels like the HBG is broken from the start, and you have to fix it before you can seriously use it. It's so tedious to build and not much fun to play... and i used that thing from JR000 to MR200 without changing the weapon typ once... With the high hopes its getting better in the late or endgame... what a joke. I just should have stayed with the GS.