BMW B58 vs N55 Engines: A brief but proper look at the differences & similarities between the two...
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2024
- Welcome to Season 2 Episode 13 (S02E13): The B58 replaced the N55 and is currently a very well regarded 3.0L 6-cylinder engine. But how different is it from its predecessor?
S58 vs B58: • BMW S58 vs B58 Engines...
B58 vs B58TU: • B58 vs B58TU: A brief ...
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#B58TU #B58 #N55 #m140i #HotHatch #LegendInTheMaking - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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BMW Tech here. Surprisingly the B series motors oil filter housings don’t leak oil. They just have a tendency to warp where they mount against the block causing coolant to pour down the left hand side of the block and require replacement of the entire unit. B series motors are surprisingly well sealed but their cooling systems are so poorly designed that they’re definitely the bottleneck. So much plastic makes them leak in several locations. Very good video
Some of us have found a different colour coolant (olive-brown) in our intercooler coolant expansion tanks. By any chance, do you know what that coolant Part Number or designation is? As far as I know both circuits should be serviced with the same coolant (either LC-87 blue coolant or LC-18 / HT-12 green coolant), so this brown olive-brown coolant only found in the intercooler circuit has been abit of a mystery. Hope you might be able to help.
@@NoBrainerTalk just now seeing this, sorry for the late response. As far as I’m aware we swapped to HT12 after 2017 so it should be HT 12 for both the low temp and high temp cooling circuits. If it’s a B series motor more likely than not it takes HT12. I’ve seen some B46s right on the cusp of when we swapped over still take blue in the high temp but green in the low temp.
@@ethanjamesboling2152 which engine would you choose the N55 or B58?
@@StillhetOgSmerte B58 all day. The N55 is a great engine too but the issue is theyre older and have been dogged on much more frequently. If you can find a lower mileage B58, go for that. The only weak points are, tank vent vales like to go bad but theres a warranty extension now, cooling systems like to leak due to being primarily plastic and rubber components but as long as you get like an aftermarket warranty you dont have anything to worry about. Coils dont die randomly like they do on the N55, not an electric water pump so you dont have to wrory about those dying or causing a parasitic draw.
The N55s in the M235 and M2 have a forged crank. All 2014+ F series N55s use the S55 crank and rod bearings and forged S55 connecting rods. All 2014+ N55s have electronic wastegates and a larger turbo. All N55 cars have electric steering racks.
False, PWG n55s from the e9x generation don’t
Does this 2014+ change in rod bearings, and crank, include the N55b30M0? Thanks so much for your time!
What’s a F series?
@@alanmusa7143 The chassis designation of the 3 series between the 2012 and 2019 model years (F30 chassis and iterations) and the 1 (F20 chassis) and 2 series cars (F22 chassis).
The B58 has forged crank too !
All of the M series BMWs that received the N55 engine all received forged crankshafts, just thought I'd also mention that.
Aswell as the m sport e92 ? 🤔
@@johnnytacosauce no, since the m sport package is only for visuals ie: bumpers door seals steering wheel ect...
@@markburkey6371 ahh crap thanks! 🤣
So the m235i has forged crank over the non M ? On the fence of trading my vette but ive heard alot about unreliable n55s from 335i owners
Nice video , I thinks there's lack of this type of engine comparison content so keep pushing
What a pleasant feeling it is to react to each and every point you mention with an inner: "Ah! That was worth the upgrade" .
Thanks for the amazing job.
You clearly deserved a follow man, like those detailed specs style videos
This is amazingly informative. Great video!
Wow this is the most in depth video by far on these engines I've seen, I appreciate all the research you put into this. I would love to see a B57 video
Pity he doesn't know fully what he's talking about,
@@sandiegoavgeek6there's no such M840i only a 840i, 840d, M850i and M8 Competition (the 840i and 840d were not sold in North America)
To some technical talk is boring but to those of us where information is everything your videos and explanations are tops 👍
Thank you. I learned something new today...again.
Excellent comparison and well presented overview 👍
But he's wrong
This is really cool , deserves much more views…. thank you
Thank you, and honestly the unimpressive performance of the videos does discourage me from making more. :)
Great piece of content ❤
Very informative. Thank you.
Excellent Video
Fantastic Comparison!
Best explan until now 💪👍
Thanks for the info
I love this content. Looking into an M240i myself.
Good luck to the mechanic doing a timing chain change….
The N55 engine exists with an electronic wastegate (after 08/2013). And the first X4 "M40i" also had the N55B30T0, the only 40i with a N55.
Nice comment! Yes, it's true. Some late production N55s did introduce electronic wastegate and yes it's also true that the N55B30T0 engine is found in early X4 M40i cars. There are even older cars carrying "40i" designation that are not fitted with B58. It's abit like current F40 M135i fitted with 4 cylinder engine and F20 M135i which had N55 6-cylinder.
Does the N55b30M0 made in 2015, have the better rod bearings? or no? Thanks!
@@Anthony-qh1xv I don't think so...
@@philtechGT3 ok, are they problematic? Or does it come down to how you take care of it? Design flaw? or not? Thanks!
@@philtechGT3 it does my good sir
The later N55 engine had an electronic wastegate too (EWG). Mine does, as it was made after June 2013. They can handle more boost. You get higher hp from mods than the pneumatic wastegates in the older N55 engines (PWG).
The upgrade from PWG to EWG took place in July 2014 for this allowed a 4" inlet/outlet pipe vs. a 3.5" inlet/outlet pipe on PWG units and a revised (larger) turbine/compressor wheel.
I owned an PWG N55 before on a 2013 X5 xDrive35i and now I have an EWG N55 with MPPK a few other mods making over 320hp at the wheels that's on a 2017 X5 xDrive35i with M Sport and the latter feels substianlly faster than what I had before.
@@Scotford_Maconochie M135i got them earlier. Your date is correct for most other models.
They control boost more accurately, not handle more boost.
Great applause, amazing video, if you can, only if you can make one for B48 vs N20
Yes please
Great video!!!!!
Insane compression ratios
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Nice content. I was wondering if is there a chance that we could replace vanos solenoid and mechanical water pump without removing the engine with the m140I ? I've seen some dude succed reaching them on a 340i but I dont know how more sueezed it is on a m140i
Unfortunately I don't know. Out of curiosity what issues are you experiencing that require the coolant pump and vanos solenoid to be replaced?
@@NoBrainerTalk I got 2 friends who replaced their solenoid. A N55 at 160kkm and B58 at 140kkm (fortunatly on a 340i).
I'm looking for a m140i, and will be pleased to know for a peace of mind that I will be able to change thoses valve alone, without a tremendous bill from the dealer.
@@UPR91 Got it. :) I think the VANOS intake and exhaust solenoid valves in the back are accessible to some degree, but fortunately I've not had to do it nor know anyone who had to do it, so I don't have any experience to share. Please do let us know if you find out.
@7:43 Does it mean I do not have to leave the engine idle after long ride or hard ride to cool down the turbine?
Hi Peter, I do the same (30 seconds to a minute). There is nothing in our BMW user manual about idling the engine after a spirited drive before shutting it down. I honestly don't think it causes any harm, but I don't have any data to say for sure there is a benefit. If the engine is switched off, the auxiliary electrical pump will continue circulating engine coolant to the turbo for a small period of time (a few seconds), however all the heat generating activity has completely stopped as there is no longer any fuel combustion. On the other hand, if the engine is still idling, and has reached high temperature, the ECU will be attempting to cool the engine down as much as possible with fan activation, heat management module in max cooling mode, etc. However as the car is not moving, radiator effectiveness will be low, and at the same time, the engine will still be generating heat through fuel combustion. Another difference is that oil will still be circulating with the engine running, and the oil can also extract heat from the turbo if the turbo is hotter than the engine internals. The engine will be cooling down when idling but whether or not this helps the cooling of the turbo compared to engine off, requires data to answer with certainty. There's also the fact the engine wants to retain heat for better fuel efficiency, so the ECU logic might be quite complex when idling. I think the practice of avoiding sudden changes is likely to prolong the engine, so I will continue to let it idle for a few seconds before switching off, and after that the auxiliary pump will do its thing aswell.
This is a great video!!! Hey, I just wanted to ask.
When you compare the N55b30m0, to the N55b30, the M0 has less HP.
It seems as though the M0 is a lower end engine.
My question, is, is the M0 any less reliable? How is the reliability?
in mid 2014+ BMW improved the rod bearing design in the N55.
Does this apply to a 2015 car that has the N55b30M0?
Thanks! it means a lot to me!!
Hi there, the N55B30M0 power was certainly down rated with the engine probably capable of greater output safely even at entry into service, but kept to a certain power output for commercial reasons. BMW will often offer higher power in terms of a more aggressive tune (e.g. the "competition package" for M cars or M-Performance Power and Sound Kit for B58 cars) without any hardware changes, demonstrating that there is a policy to withhold some power and "unlock" full potential for a premium. Reliability will often depend on the manufacture year of the engine, and while the engines will all be N55B30M0 in type, the later production years will incorporate small modifications or production improvements that will increase reliability. The best way to view this is with RealOEM, where for any specific component, it will show you that the P/N changed after certain years. Some viewers commented about the turbo electrical wastegates replacing the pneumatic wastegates at the late stages of N55 production in 2015, etc. That would be an example of a significant mod, but there can be material type changes, small quality improvements in unchanged hardware, etc, all of which come together to address various reliability issues. Alot of components in these engines are shared between engines and so the entire range of engines can benefit from some upgrades. Ultimately some of the engine-specific reliability issues of the N55 cannot be resolved economically, and this is why the B58 comes in to replace the N55 and address its flaws with a clean sheet design. I looked at RealOEM trying to find any changes made to the rod bearings in 2014, but none is shown. I am therefore not sure if there are upgraded rod bearings introduced in 2014 for the N55B30M0, but I am relying on RealOEM, so I could be wrong.
@@NoBrainerTalk Thank you so much! This response was great!! That is really good to know!
@@NoBrainerTalk So, would you say that the N55 is a good engine? I know it is not B58 level, but is it reliable? a 2015 N55B30M0? Should it be alright for some time, if I do the oil every 5k, and take great care of it? Thanks!!
@@Anthony-qh1xv That is a difficult question to answer, because it matters alot how well the previous owner(s) took care of the engine before you. It's considered a good engine. Generally if you show them love and take care of them, they will last a long time (there are many well known issues, but all of them manageable). Some preventative maintenance (addressing some of the known issues of the N55 before they bite) might give you more peace of mind. There are no guarantees of course.
@@NoBrainerTalk Hey, I had one more question, I am sorry. So, when I listen to my engine run from under the car, I hear a tick sound with the rhythm engine. Is this normal? There are many weird sounds with these BMWs I have learned. Thanks!
Please Update me - when he makes a video about B57
Please cover the B57 diesel engine
where do you look on the vin or where to know which one you have?
Do you mean how to use the VIN to determine your engine type? I suppose it can be loaded into a VIN checker website, these are usually not free, and I'm not sure if they specify the engine model. But looking at the engine itself you can usually understand the engine model and you can also check on the engine for the engine Part Number. This is usually on the front side of the engine, in the case of the B58 it is behind the charge pipe.
Great info! I love my OG M2 but still wish they would've put a B58 in there instead 😪
N55 on the m2 is a still a very strong engine
@@qwertyqwerty-zi6dr for sure! If I can get like 450whp on pump with a Pure stage 2, I'd be super happy.
@@micraw714 n55 stock turbo maxs at 460whp lol. you can push 550+ reliably with a pure stage 2
May u explain what are the differences in F87 M2 version of N55? I heard its also a closed deck design??
Hi, negative the N55 in the M2 (N55B30T0) is an open deck design. It does have the following upgrades compared to the N55B30O0 (the highest power version of N55 that is not in M-Car):
(a) Pistons adopted from the S55
(b) Crankshaft main bearing shells adopted from the S55
(c) Sparkplugs from the S55
(d) Aluminium Oil sump from the S55
(e) Various oil system upgrades for motor racing requirements, including second oil pump, second suction pump and oil sump cover.
(f) Charge pressure increase by 0.1bar.
(g) Additional air-coolant heat exchanger and additional oil-air heat exchanger.
(h) Intake muffler box has additional opening.
These are the principal changes. Hope this helps.
Im sure the n55 m2 has the same crank shaft as the s55. Is that not forged ? Same as the pistons etc ?
Hi, the crankshaft of the M2 N55 (N55B30T0) is the same as the N55B30O0 (M135i/M235i) and it is forged steel, but not the same as the N55B30M0 which is cast iron. However in the M2 N55 it is combined with upgraded crankshaft bearings. The crankshaft of the S55 is of course forged steel. The pistons of the M2 N55 (N55B30T0) are adopted from the S55 engine but with different piston rings.
I want to buy a m140i, but I think that the cars that have B58TU comes with petrol particulate filter (Europe). Is worth? Or maybe is better to go with first version of B58 engine that don't have the petrol particulate filter? Thanks
Hi, late production M140i's and other 1st gen B58 cars also have PPF. Yes, all B58TU will have PPF aswell. It is possible to modify the car and delete the PPF so it's not a show-stopper.
Deleting the PPF is not an option because the car wont pass emissions test. So I have to decide between a modern b58 engine version with PPF or an earlier b58 engine without it (at least in Spain until 2018 the m140i came without PPF)
@@AdriWeedMan To be honest I don't know how decat dp cars pass emissions tests either, but there's definitely people out there deleting the PPF. However, as you say it's always best to choose a car that wasn't fitted with a PPF from factory, my M140i is manufactured May 2018, and was one of the last without PPF (only the factory knows the last VIN without PPF, but wouldn't it be awesome if somehow mine was the last one? :)).
THE N 55 IS AND EXTRAORDINARILY STRONG AND POWERFUL MOTOR
@9:15. He said the N55 has a power steering pump. My 2014 F33 N55 435 c9nvertible is electric steering. No PS pump.
Thank you for that note, there are some changes between cars and incremental improvements of the N55 before the release of the B58. For example the turbo's electrical waste gate valve was introduced on the later production N55s before it was standard on the B58 turbos. This video is a generalisation.
@@NoBrainerTalk Yup, mine is electric waste gate, too.
Not true the coolant tank on N55 from the two X5 I had where located on the right
Yes, there are a few exceptions to everything.
Can you do n63 vs n63tu?
I'll have it in mind.
Timing chain on back??? Yikes
My N55 435iX MHD Stage 2+ E20 has 160,000 miles and no leaks and no serpentine belt issues. - update 168k miles no rod bearing issues. Daily abused 435iX Also xHP stage 4.
BMW Power!!! :)
Any issues with rod bearings? These seem to be a common issue on the n55.
@@vwukben A few owners have found issues with rod bearings (though not often resulting in engine failure), although generally I believe it is not considered an issue that affects a large number of S55 engines. Running the engines with good oil of the right viscosity is key for all engine types to help prevent/greatly postpone such issues, it's often difficult to differentiate design issues with issues brought on by customisations and modifications. If I had bought a used low mileage S55 and I knew the previous owner used approved BMW spec oil and replaced it frequently, I personally wouldn't worry about rod bearing issues.. But this is just my humble opinion.
@@vwukben Im at 168,000 miles no issues.
What about the water pump?
Wwwooowww 🤯
It feels weird realizing my car is almost a classic now.. #N54
Great video, I wanted to ask you a question about new BMW which I want to buy. What email I can reach you on?
Please email me here: nobrainertalk@gmail.com
Plz show the B58 crank hub fixed design.
Hi, if you go to 12:07 in the video, you'll see the new design, which is four pulley bolts instead of a central bolt.
This video focuses too much on technicalities and forgets the most important: comparing advantages and disadvantages of each engine in real life.
2016 bmw X40i Is the engine M2 engine the same?😢
No, M2 and X40i have different engines. OG M2 has N55 engine variant, M2 competition and M2 CS have S55 engine, Latest G87 M2 has S58 engine. 2016 X40i has B58 engine.
@@NoBrainerTalk Thank you for your reply.
Any idea if a B58 can be swapped into a pre-LCI F31 engine bay? (same engine as the post-LCI F3X)
Similarly any idea if the B58TU can be swapped into the same F31? Looking at doing this for my 2014 328i Touring and would love to bring in a B58TU with all the latest power and advancements. I know there was also an increase to a 48V mild hybrid tech for the post-LCI B58TU so I’m wondering whether there would be any fitting issues into the old pre-LCI F3X engine bay.
Has anybody done any of these swaps?
I don't know, but as the F31 chassis can accommodate B58 in LCI form, then it should be able to accommodate B58 1st gen engine in pre LCI form with relatively minor adjustments. As for B58TU you would be in less clear territory, but it should work in theory. The B58TU does not necessarily have 48V system, this is a later addition. You can find spare B58TU without 48V system. Basically to me your plan sounds possible, but never did it so this is just my humble opinion.
You would have to change a lot more than just the engine
I'm having my eyes on a 2016 640i, I'm new to the BMW world, what engine does this car have?
I see the B58 is tweaked to be a better performance engine than the N55, yet is more complex, I'll be doing the maintenance work myself so I'm biased toward the N55.
Enlight me please 🙏🏼
Hello, I believe the 2016 F12 640i has the N55B30A engine.
@@NoBrainerTalkI really appreciate your feedback, but how is it in terms of reliability and service?
@@vincentlonbird1806 Although generally the B58 is more reliable than the N55, the N55 is also a good engine. As long as you stay on top of the known issues and service the engine as required, it should be good. But there are always exceptions, even new engines can be less reliable based on many factors. Keep in mind when buying a used car, it's never clear how hard the previous owner(s) drove the car or if the engine running in was done properly. Having said all that, the 640i is very good looking car in my opinion, I can see why you are interested.
@@NoBrainerTalk Many thanks friend, yeah I really do like the aesthetics of the car
I recommend a BMW 435i , is a beautiful design and strong engine , in fact , a GREAT SPORT CAR !!!!
Rear timing chain doesn't mean better weight distribution and is in general an idiotic design.
In the case of the N55 both the belt driven accessories and timing chain are at the front, whereas in the case of the B58 the accessories are at the front and the timing chain is at the rear. Obviously just the location of the timing chain is not proof of better weight distribution, but the weight is in fact more balanced compared to the N55. I agree that moving the timing chain to the back will make maintenance to it extremely difficult (essentially the engine will need to be removed). Let's just hope that the design and components used prove to be robust and reliable (we'll only know in the years to come).
@@NoBrainerTalk Arguably if we consider the center of weight of the engine on the longitudal axis (in line with the cylinders), I bet that putting the chain against the firewall increases forward weight bias, since that means moving the main engine block, which is the heaviest component, more towards the front wheels. Ideally you want the COG of the engine to be as far back as possible. And I doubt the chain constitutes more mass per unit longitudal distance when compared to the main engine block. Another consideration, which anyone who has ever owned a N47 diesel engine will know, is that the chain can get loud over time. Putting it in the back, right next to the firewall and behind the dashboard, means mors unwanted noise in the cabin. I could very clearly hear the chain clattering away with that engine. Therefore I struggle to find any benefit or reason why they would do this.
@@harbl2479 Indeed the potential for increased cabin noise from the engine is why there is so much increased noise insulation in B58 equipped cars.
So left is right and right is left?
Yes, usually left and right are from the perspective of the driver or operator (or pilot if we are talking about aircraft), this perspective is commonly also known as "aft looking forward." If we are standing in front of the car or engine looking towards aft or rear of the car, then our right is the left of the car and our left is the right of the car (from the perspective of the driver). Hope this makes sense... :)
@@NoBrainerTalk yup.
Good explanation.. would have prefered you not call numbers.. letters!
😂 I actually though the same thing every time.
So a timing chain job requires engine out?
Yes, for B58 it does look like that's the case. It might be possible with transmission removal instead (and alot of other peripherals removal), but the access is so limited I personally doubt it. But I might be wrong.
Not anymore
@@qwertyqwerty-zi6dr Hi there, please can you explain further what "not anymore" means? :)
B58TU has a compression ratio of 10.2:1
Not according to BMW technical documents, it is still 11.0:1 at least for the B58B30M1. There is uncertainty for the B58B30O1 however (I will make a video soon).
Please do n54 vs b58
It's pretty similar to the N55, just look for N54 vs N55 comparisons and you'll know why the N55 is better and more reliable
@@ChrisEOfficial N55 has been having more and more rod bearing issues as more cars reach the 100k mark. My N55 car was a money pit at 94k. Leaky valve cover, leaky OFHG and OCHG, leaking oil pan, failed water pump, cracked charge pipe, cracked vent hose etc. My N54 was the same way with OFHG, OCHG, oil pan gasket, injectors etc. Point is both are money pits but N54 make power easier and are capable of safely making more on average. Basically the components around the N54 might be more failure prone but the engine itself is much stronger and more capable than the N55.
The B58 is a solid step forward in both technology and power potential. My B58tu car feels fast even in stock form. Ran. 12.2 stock with a shitty 60ft. Seen people run 11.9 stock M340i though.
@@rodgazinya which cars did u own?
@@rodgazinya You have described only maintenance issues, that you have didn't repair them in time, and complain about a littel bit of plastic failing after 100k miles, if you can't afford to maintain a bmw buy a honda. X_x
Very good but pls do for dummies
N55 in m2?
It is the N55B30T0.
@@NoBrainerTalk Oh ok👍
N55B30TO makes 500Nm on overboost
Yes, this is correct, the N55B30T0 can temporarily achieve 500Nm via a brief increase in charging pressure (overboost).
Man, I'd love new supra.
B58 is just better.
Not soundwise.
@@peterkukolik8402 Don't agree. In my opinion B58 sounds a bit better than N55 an much better than S55.
Rear mounted timing chain and arced on liners?
Rebuilding and maintaining it is going to be a pain.
Oil filters disintegrating dropping bits of filter into the engine, injector issues and cracked pistons/bore scoring, coolant loss/coolant leaks everywhere etc etc. But if I was to believe the B58 hype like everyone else, I'd agree.
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Should of done n54 was more competitive
Listing all the issues of the N54 would have made the video an hour long 😂
Stroke length is the same as that in sex
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Duuuude...I ain't watching your flippin B58 video, stop plugging it!!
🤣🤣🤣
What did the b58 do my guy
It's a garbage engine. Don't believe the hype.
LoL the only thing to compare is how many more n55 blow up. N55 sucks...
Right... Kies had 2 B58's blow up, as did Thiccwhips, and Noclutchgarage but stay delusional.
You my friend have no idea what you’re on about!