The 2022 Holberg Debate w/ John Mearsheimer and Carl Bildt: Ukraine, Russia, China and the West
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 พ.ย. 2022
- 09:37 Event starts: Welcome by the Holberg Prize Chair, Professor Kjersti Fløttum.
12:15 Introduction by Cecilie Hellestveit.
16:08 Opening remarks by Carl Bildt.
32:46 Opening remarks by John. J. Mearsheimer.
56:53 Moderated discussion.
2:32:36 Closing remarks by Carl Bildt.
2:36:13 Closing remarks by John J. Mearsheimer.
The 2022 Holberg Debate: 'Will Fear Keep Us Safe?'
How will the war in Ukraine and other geopolitical crises impact the global security order, and what do they mean for the power of deterrence ?
Panel: John J. Mearsheimer and Carl Bildt
Moderator: Cecilie Hellestveit
Organizer: The Holberg Prize
John J. Mearsheimer is the R. Wendell Harrison Distinguished Service Professor of Political Science at the University of Chicago, where he has taught since 1982. He graduated from West Point (1970), has a PhD in political science from Cornell University (1981), and has written extensively about security issues and international politics. Among Mearsheimer’s six books, The Tragedy of Great Power Politics (2001, 2014) won the Joseph Lepgold Book Prize; and The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy (with Stephen M. Walt, 2007), made the New York Times bestseller list and has been translated into twenty-five languages. His latest book is The Great Delusion: Liberal Ideals and International Realities (2018), which won the 2019 Best Book of the Year Award from the Valdai Discussion Conference, Moscow. In addition, Mearsheimer has a forthcoming book (with Sebastian Rosato), Homo Theoreticus: Rationality in International Politics. He has also written numerous articles and op-eds that have appeared in International Security, London Review of Books, Foreign Affairs, The Financial Times, and The New York Times. In 2003, Mearsheimer was elected to the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, and in 2020, he won the James Madison Award, which is given once every three years by the American Political Science Association to “an American political scientist who has made a distinguished scholarly contribution to political science.”
Carl Bildt is Co-Chair of the European Council on Foreign Relations and contributing columnist to The Washington Post, as well as columnist for Project Syndicate. He serves as Senior Advisor to the Wallenberg Foundations in Sweden and is on the Board of Trustees of the RAND Corporation in the US. Bildt has served as both Prime Minister and Foreign Minister of Sweden. In March 2021, Bildt was appointed WHO Special Envoy for the Access to COVID-19 Tools Accelerator (ACT-Accelerator). Subsequently he served in international functions with the EU and UN, primarily related to the conflicts in the Balkans. Bildt was Co-Chairman of the Dayton peace talks on Bosnia and become the first High Representative in the country. Later, he was the Special Envoy of UN Secretary General Kofi Annan to the region.
Cecilie Hellestveit (moderator) is a lawyer and social scientist with a PhD in international humanitarian law (IHL) from the University of Oslo. She has been associated with a number of research institutes in Norway and abroad. Hellestveit researches and teaches in the field of international law, use of force, and armed conflicts.
For more information: See the Holberg Prize website, holbergprize.org/en/2022-holb...
Facebook event page: / 487224650117300
Don't miss the 2023 Holberg Debate on December 2. Anil Seth, Tanya Luhrmann and Rupert Sheldrake will debate the question: "Does Consciousness Extend Beyod Brains?" th-cam.com/video/ofSUaZOW9h8/w-d-xo.html
Feel free to follow the event page on Facebook: facebook.com/events/315569814476878
More information on the Holberg Prize webpage: holbergprize.org/en/2023-holberg-debate-does-consciousness-extend-beyond-brains
Try to get a neutral moderator for that one, it would be more in the spirit of the basic idea behind free speech and debate.
Russian State Duma passes total ban on GMO crops and animals. 27, 2016
Russia’s State Duma adopted Friday the third and final reading of a government bill that introduces a total ban on the cultivation and breeding in Russia of genetically modified (GM) plants and animals, except for scientific research purposes.
The State Duma has also given the Russian Government the right to prevent the import of products containing GMOs in to Russia, if it is revealed that a specific GMO has a negative impact on human health and/or the environment.
Russia’s Agriculture Minister, Alexander Tkachev, stated Friday, ”The Ministry of Agriculture is strongly against GMOs, Russian products will remain clean.”
The initial first reading of the government bill was held in 2015 and this was followed by the second reading in the Sate Duma earlier this week. The additions in the final bill included the introduction of fines that will be placed on people or companies that violate the ban: a fine of 10,000-50,000 ($150-$750) rubles for individuals and 100,000-500,000 rubles for legal entities ($1,500-$7,500).
The Russian Government has stood strong in the face of increasing pressure from U.S. biotech companies and they have also managed to see through the Russian pro-GMO forces’ misleading claims and pseudoscience.
In December 2015, Russian President Vladimir Putin told the Russian Parliament that Russia should become the world’s largest supplier of organic foods.
Also in 2015, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Arkady Dvorkovich stated that it is not necessary to use genetic modification to feed the world, at the 12th International "Science and Technology in Society" (STS) forum in Kyoto, Japan.
This strength shown by the Russian government was also shown early in 2016 when they dealt a huge blow to U.S. farmers, by banning all imports of U.S. soybeans and corn due to microbial and GMO contamination.
Before Putin, Russia had the unquestioned 2nd best standing army in the world. Months after Putin's invasion into Ukraine, Zelensky has clearly shown that Russia's army was second best in Ukraine. Afterwards Prigozhin showed to the world that Putin's army was also second best in Russia.
In the war between Putin and surviving Nazi armies across the kaput Crimea Kerch Strait Bridge, Prigozhin and Zelensky just wanted ammunition, while the Covid fearful Putin just needs a ride.
At the rate that the Putin War is losing Eastern military brainpower, Mearsheirmer should volunteer much needed mercenary and military rear field command insights.
@stephengee. You are talking crap. Talk fact; don't give us fantasyland wishful thinking.
Today, the average age of the Ukrainian military is 43 years. It must be the oldest military in the world. One 71 year old man was found in a Ukrainian tank crew. A pregnant woman Ukrainian soldier surrendered to the Russians. These are the objective facts that show that the Ukrainian military is toast.
What, this woman is supposed to be the moderator? Sly bastards! They even seated John between them so they could take turns trying to clobber him. Shameful!!!. Kudos to John for standing his ground and for demonstrating (as always) his vast knowledge and intellectual prowess (without a single line of notes). Thank you, prof. Mearsheimer!
When challenged the glaring flaws in Mearsheimer's arguments shine through his veneer of certainty. And when his ill-conceived conjecture was called out his response was to simply repeat it again, as though saying something makes it so. 🙄🤦🏻♀️🤨
Your opinion of Mearsheimer's performance is unfounded. If you were aware of more details involved, which Mearsheimer omits, and the others therd clearly know about (as do I), you'd recognize why Mearsheimer's arguments have never held water, and you'd perceive his performance here differently too.
But ignorance is bliss, I suppose.
@@LittleDesertFlower78 So kind of you to actually bring those details up...
The role of Sweden in the persecution of Julian Assange says all we need to know about Carl Bildt's position on Ukraine; it's a matter of whitewash, blur and obfuscate everything that stands in the way of the US-endorsed narrative. This Witch who is purportedly moderating the debate seems to be more of a back-up for Carl Bildt, why is she participating in the debate? Things pretty-much end with her and Bildt completely talking over Mearsheimer. In a world full of intelligent people they would be the village idiots.
Sweden is a lapdog of USA.
She has her own Agenda?
@@Nietzscheable ; No doubt an agenda of European elitism, combined with climate change zealotry.
US and EU don’t care about Ukraine. Only if it aligns with their own interest. Same as Russia. The politician debater who makes it sound like US and EU are full time charity crusaders who want to enforce will of Ukrainian people is insanely propagandist and ultimately counterproductive
@@alohatime2171 ; I will agree that the west has no concern about sacrificing the Ukrainian people in their attempt to move NATO even further eastward, and force political upheaval that follows the orders of Brussels and Washington DC.
it must be so frustrating to have a conversation with Bildt, he is completely unable to even listen at all
As a proud 67 yr old American, it is a sobering thought that I've been lied to by my Gov't for 67 years.
I hear you ,very disappointing
It's something that you should have assumed and expected. With all due respect, You haven't even seen the tip of the ice berg
Exactly ...by a bunch of morons.
Disappointed? Do you expect ANY government to tell the truth? Truth pushes you out of power, and you are no longer in the government.
I am suprised that Carl actually agreed to do this debate. He is a politician not an academic. Either he doesn't understand international politics, which I highly doubt, or he is arrogant enough to try pushing the same narratives that we get in mainstream media. This doesn't hold when he debate someone like Mearsheimer.
It´s embarrising to listen to Bildt. So stuck in his bad knowledge and in his propaganda talking. What is the role of the moderator. Is it to be arrogant?
To be honest, I find some satisfaction seeing Carl making a fool of himself 😁
You are probably right. Also, remember that Carl was a supporter of US aggression in Iraq and doesnt have a moral ground to stand on.
@@bilder43 I am not saying that I agree with Bildt, but he makes good points, I have no idea what you mean by being embarrassing. There is not much difference in knowledge between the 2 but there is a big difference in interpretation. Using demeaning language about people we don't agree is of poor taste.
bildt is a memberof cfr and the rand corp, both american neocon hotspots.
As a Swede, I remember the days when Palme was still alive and Carl Bildt was universally considered to be a CIA puppet - and a right-wing extremist. Those were the days of Reason...
as a Russian troll you mean 😅
True, Bildt ran off to Washington DC with confidential information from the investigations done by the 'submarine commission'.
In any other normal country he would have been charged for high treason. In Sweden he was promoted with various minister posts. This guy is a lizard and couldn't even refrain from lying also in this debate.
Is he one of the ones who thought filling Sweden with non-Europeans would be a good idea?
@@jenniferlawrence2701 Good question, I don't know the answer, but I suspect he has taken part of that.
Extreme hypocrisy is shown by Bildt. He has taken some part politically in the processes that ultimately have taken apart Yugoslavia, totally disrespecting the territorial integrity of the Serbs and after Bosnia, Kosovo, Croatia, Slovenia, Macedonia, Albania have been sliced from Yugoslavia, he claims that he is against violent border changes. How dare he?
Given that fear has been used to herd us into the most dangerous positions we have ever been in, especially in the last 20 years, I would argue that fear has achieved the direct opposite of keeping us safe.
What is the point of your comment? It doesn't mean anything. What fear? Who experiences it, drug addicts? Who are "us"? Why do you think it would have been better if something would have been done differently? What could have been done differently? Why do you think it was fear that caused the deterioration of "your" safety?
I fear daily
@@salted_lizardHis comment says nothing, "just fear bro". These fears are quite real as there are many dictatorships around the world that want to control their neighbors.
take a long look around sweetheart, or perhaps you dont go outside? @@ilya2226
NOT ONLY FEAR BUT WORST CONSCIOUS MEDIATIC PROPAGANDA CALLED NEW WORLD ORDER ( leading to present mess of nuclear war dangers and to our being trapped by USA--FINANCIAL--MILITARY--INDUSTRIAL GLOBAL COMPLEX ) @@ilya2226
Why does the man on the right think that the soviets are idiots? He's like: yes we sold Ukraine Javelins but they stored were in the kitchen, not the living room.
After 5 minutes of his demonstration that Putin is stupid, I was like "I would invade Ukraine".
That is precisely the kind of attitude that leads to war.
The Soviets are gone.
This debate was one sided because the moderator was clearly an advocate of Bildt’s position. But had one main value, it shows the actual problem we face. .. European hard headedness combined with an unshakable belief that they are Holy and Russia is always evil. This is the sole cause of the whole problem. An example can be seen where the woman stated that buying Russian gas was a sort of favor they were going to appease Russia. It was a policy designed to let euros have cheap gas and avoid drilling at home… but she manages as though it was some magnanimous act. And then the way he keeps prattling on about bringing down the Russian government.
And I didn’t notice the slightest concern about the rise of Galician nazism and how Russia is always going to react to a Nazi dominated regime in its border.
Last, does anyone remember Kosovo? Libya? Syria?
As I said, at least this clearly exposes the actual problem.
I was surprise she didn't take her chair beside Carl and whisper in his ear...
I cannot agree more with you. Mearsheimer was very polite and didn't mention anything about the Nazis controling Zelensky when Carl said that Ukraine is a democratic country.
I would encourage people to watch Professor Timothy Synder lectures on Ukrainian history at Yale. Are there unsavoury people in Ukrainian politics for sure but a naive approach to Russian or Putin s rewriting history is problematic
How is Ukraine "nazi dominated"? Nazi parties got almost no votes and have no power or influence in their goverment. Their president is a jew. Ur comment is basically just russian propaganda.
Just another US created Proxy War. People have no ideas of how the US operates to continue their Power over all nations.
I wish the World luck. I wonder why the world is a complete mess; perhaps people are too unsophisticated?
The guy who was part of dismembering Yugoslavia in the 90s says NATO is no threat to Russia
They think naive idiots rule the worlds biggest country
Whats bad about it? It ended years of war and conflict.
@@tpeterson9140 conflict caused by NATO divide and conquer. Last I checked everywhere NATO goes war and conflict follow. Just look at Iraq, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan etc
@@tpeterson9140 So the same would apply to what's happening in Ukraine. It would end the killing of the Ukrainians in the Donbas. Over 14,000 lost their lives in the past 8 years. So you should support Russia.
it would be good to have this debate again now and see the current situation, this debate shows that our politicians do not know anything about the reality and do not want to consider specialists opinions.
Mearsheimer outshone Bild in every dimension.
Mearshiemer: "This could escalate and we need the great powers to talk"
Bildt and host: "So what you are saying is you hate Ukraine?!"
The lady and Bilt are like naive teens
Karl Bild is a joke. American joke.
Mearsheimer’s biggest flaw in the Ukraine question, is that he does not allow Ukraine and Ukrainians any agency. To him it seems that Ukraine is to be viewed as a Russian colony, more or less. This is deeply misguided…
@@achillestortoise Misguided? They are the same people. How is this misguided? You are misguided.
@@achillestortoise Starting with the referendum/poll of 1994, shortly after Ukrainian independence in 1991, Donbas and Crimea have several times expressed a desire for greater autonomy within Ukraine. Let's not forget this began as a civil war...something Russia privately warned the US might happen in 2008.
I've really been waiting so long for discussions like this! You rarely see them in the mainstream media in Finland these days. Both sides have good arguments, but Prof. Mearsheimer has so much more insight and knowledge of history and international politics and he is able to apply the laws of cause and effect and even predict possible future scenarios. A wise man.
Are you for real? Mearsheimer is a well-known trojan horse, who pushes dictator totalitarian narrative. Don't be delusional. High class paid actor.
He predicted the Ukraine conflict long before it happened. It is on youtube.
Could not agree with you more. the problem is however we have warmongers, fools and the brainwashed at the helm.
finland is messed up. our leaders are lunatics.
Not only that but one was reading from notes the other one spoke freely
To people like Carl Bildt who like to say “I was there”, “I met Putin”… I have but one question: What would they have done differently to prevent this war?
A lot of people incl Bildt did what they could. But with Putin that doesn’t help. The only way to keep peace with Putin in power is to keep him weak.
@@carljonsson9964 5 months later. Putin is destroying the west, or should i say; The west is on a collective suicide mission to please a few rich men in Washington. And some of the sheep still cheer this on. Just mindblowing
A year on this ages like fine wine, great job John J. Mearsheimer.
Indeed. My man Mearsheimer clearly missed the mark, which is obvious now in hindsight. The Russians, by their own literal words, are increasingly clear that they are trying to restore the old Russian Empire and are engineering their society to face decades of expansionary conflict. The existential threat was, as Bildt suggested, never to the Russian state, but rather to the Russian imperial ambitions.
"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
Who is telling the truth in this debate?
@@luigimario4458 If I told you there is risk you will not take my word for it. Do as I have, research and you will find. It may help to begin with Mearsheimers earlier lectures already from 2014 here on YT. Former chancellor Merkel said recently; "the Minsk agreements where only useful to give time to arm Ukraine". It is a piece in the puzzle that builds the image of truth.
Arm Ukraine - with what? 5000 helmets Lambrecht sent in January? 😁There was no arming of Ukraine before miscalculated invasion by stupid kremlin gang.
@@andriusp2955 And now, as of this morning, Lambrecht is gone. 👏👏
Let those words give courage to the best of the Russian people, those who oppose Putin's monstrous campaign of mass mer dur, mass ray p, mass torture, mass destruction, mass kidnapping and mass larceny.
I agree with Mearsheimer. Politicians like Carl Bildt is the reason why the world is in such a peril now.
Not Putin?
I totally agree with you. Bildt is dealing with the issue on emotions.
@@SA-ff9uc yes not putin.
This guy Carl is an example of pure derangement syndrome. It was very hard to stay quiet, when despite of such a danger facing humanity this guy solution is to double down until Ukraine wins. He does not care what the win looks like, or what is the price to pay for this illusion. Does he realize that nuclear Armageddon when pursuing his victory illusion, delusion is the end of any life on the planet Earth. How can you be so deranged, so callous, so out of touch with reality??? Shame!!!
I agree 100% He’s a jingoists and a ultra Neo Liberal. Cares more about enriching the Trilateral countries then he does the East and the southern hemisphere. His politics are pure Neo Con his economics are pure Friedman and Rand.
This is a really good debate, and the fact that it is being given time to develop is remarkable. As someone who is now following it, at the end of December 2023, I would like to see it unfold today. You could also call it an update. In other words, Ukraine is no longer in as good a position militarily as it was at the end of 2022, the initially exuberant support from the USA seems to be coming to an end, the EU is trying by all means to close the (financial) gap, etc.
the yucrain is but a pawn in the filth practiced by the west and its master in the near east.....
I've lived in the West for almost 12 years now specifically in Germany, I can't begin to express my gratitude and happiness since I've been here, the West is a really good place to learn work, and live life as we know it, but in my experience, the policy and political lines of the West are a disaster it has always been I can't really understand why on earth how's even possible considering the people their level of education their innovations their abilities for greatness it's unbelievable that their politicians and policies don't go by the majority of the people it's uncomprehensible it's a disaster, look at this guy Karl why on earth should people like this represent the Western opinions on politics, The level of Johns's education is way too above Karl basically doesn't have the level of education to debate John it's a shame that the West are wrong in foreign policy.
Johns uses his education to justify the first war of conquest in Europe since the end of World War II.
Bildt doesn't represent Western opinions, he represents his own opinions, just like all the rest of us. In liberal democracies policies largely align with the will of the people, because doing otherwise doesn't get you re-elected. That's how democracy works. Just because you disagree, it doesn't mean most other people share your (probably misguided) views.
Carl Bildt "...... is on the Board of Trustees of the RAND Corporation in the US." - this says it all.
Money talks loudly ,so loudly....
That means Bildt is connected with the military industrial complex. No doubt that association affects, or shades his views.
I found Carl Bildt utterly rude and mannerless in addition to trying to manipulate the audience. He keeps interrupting professor during this debate. I guess he is just very insecure to let professor Mearsheimer talk. Such a hypocrite.
The sponsoring organization should have stated that at the outset. All in all a very non professional effort...
Thank you. This really explains a lot.
As long as we have politicians like Carl Borg, we will never have peace.
I’m deeply thankful for Prof Mearsheimer, his opponent is very unwell and it’s folks like him who continuously walk us into war while they hide safely far from the battlefield
Arh ! 1:30:50 I would really have liked to hear how they would have settled that very, very important point. But the host cut them off. 😞
Great discussion at the end half! Thanks for such a great and important talk.
Bilt sits on the Board of Trustees of the Rand Corporation in the USA and begins at 16 minutes. John Mearsheimer begins at 32 minutes and worth your attention.
Thanks for that info. Really important context since the Rand Corporation hasn't seen a war it doesn't like.
Carl was really breaking under pressure from John M. at 1:28:00 to 1:32:00. The mediator stopped the debate because of how uncomfortable and all red Carl was, so she stopped the discussion. The build up of arguments that Carl has NO answer to starts at around 1:13:00 and it builds and builds argument after argument up to when the mediator had to stop them because Carl was breaking under pressure. Just look at how his voice changes from 1:28:00 to 1:30:00.
John made the following arguments that Carl had no answer to:
1. Carl says that Russian elites disagree with Putin. John M. provides evidence that it is not the case and that most Russian elites DO agree with Putin. Carl had no response to that and did not provide evidence.
2. Carl said that NATO expansion was off the table in 2008, John provided evidence that it was not the case because the US said in june 2021 that they want to incorporate Ukraine into NATO. Carl provided no evidence that opposed this, only empty words. Mediator asks J.M. a question so we don't get a response from Carl, again... ( because he has no evidence!).
3. At 1:30:00 Carl says again that Ukraine was not going to get into NATO because "we had no forces there" like incorporation into NATO "requires" forces in that country. This is not true. None of the countries that became a part of NATO from 1994 to 2020 had NATO forces in that country before becoming members so this is total nonsense. Carl was really breaking down at this point and I am really disappointed that the mediator cut the debate here. That was really unfortunate.
@@xbandosx1 Thanks for time stamps with analysis
@@xbandosx1 i think you are reading into his emotions the way you want to. You are seeing things. Im not feeling that at all from Carl
This debate would have benefitted greatly from a moderator capable of asking questions without injecting her own incompetent opinions at every turn.
I don't mind her bias in the sense she does have a role to play in presenting the commonly understood Western narrative of the war. But her lack of preparation and knowledge was hard to watch. She's a well-meaning, uneducated air head.
Try to find a nordic academic, politician or media personality not impregnated by their own russophobic narrative. Good Luck!
She has her side already before it started. For that reason, I admit John a lot!
@@Gvarab She was also very rude, almost shouting at Mersheimer at 1:21 onwards, which clearly shows her biass and unability to moderate a debate which pretends to enrich with divergent opinions. Confusing a debate with a rally the flag around UA ... the same would be appliable to a symmetrical false debate in Serbia or Hungary, without a argued debate of all points.
Mersheimer shows with his calm but firm arguments that he is a master at this.
@@santoriniblue8413 That is true.I googled her and was surpårised to see that she was a respected academic in the same field as Mearsheimer and not a journalist.
If Ukraine had been in NATO i do not believe Russia would of attacked Ukraine
John, thank you for the science and not a "rose ponies" show. Respect for your job.
It seems that this war was preventable, could have been prevented, and it was the duty of our leaders to prevent this awful tragedy from occurring.
Even the politicians most blinded by ideology should have foreseen this disaster, but they did not lift a finger to prevent it.
true. our world leaders wanted this war to get more money for their own pockets. we should have known better. we are manipulated by fear and through fear, we follow. The covid19 was a starting point of this fear experiment. people should resist their own govt when we know better. any war of any kind will not help our country at any cost. each country has its own culture and beliefs, and we have no goddamn reason to act as police to say what is wrong and right to other countries. Heck we have a lot of problems inside our own for crying out loud!
I'd venture to say they did, with that in mind, what are they REALLY UP 2 ????
Forseeable and preventable for those who sought peace.
In their minds, they threw Ukraine to the dogs, hoping the Russians get indigestion.
They have no care for how many thousands of Ukranian corpses are being scattered around.
Borders on psychopathic behaviour.
Blinded by dollars into their own pockets more like.
Good job John, and good luck. You can't change people who don't want to change. I never heard from the western press, that this war would never have happened if Ukraine was kept neutral, and the minsk agreements were carried out, much less that the war would end today if that were done. The West never will admit its share of blame in this humanitarian disaster.
Precisely, with all that propaganda spewed!
I've stopped listening to the constant spew of lies from all western media. BBC, France24, DW, CNN, MSNBC etc etc...they think everyone's too stupid to know the truth, even when the precursor events to Ukraine war happened in the last decade. The west has become The Empire of Lies...
Ukraine is an independent sovereign nation and will make its own decisions. Ukraine sought protection from the West because Russia kept stealing her land.
not having countries such France and Germany to be signatory to such argreement may properly been better and keep the world safe. What was the purpose of having them been there and they are unable to stop this conflict.
Now,.. I think, Russia will not accept autonomy for Donbass..within Ukraine. That bus has left the station.
Neither will Russia believe any agreement. Nor will a Ukranian sovereignty be in interest of East Ukrainians.. given the recent behavior of the Ukranian State
John Mearsheimer is visionary, all his predictions came true...
I've watched this over and over again......Mearsheimer exudes clarity with every aspect of his adjective descriptions/answers 👌
I mean John's been set up like a meat sandwich but he's humiliated both of them by the end of the debate 😂
What a Cat J Mearsheimer is......Guys got a Sharp Brain 🧠
Totally agree with Professor Mearsheimer. Had NATO accepted Russia as a member, this would never have happened. One detail I think both missed is how the military industry in the US lobbies and donates money to create in conflicts in order to sell weapons. The arms industry in the USA was terrified that their market would be eroded if Russia became a NATO member. Another thing that was not touched on was the 2014 coup d'état in Ukraine which the US financed and also helped appoint who would sit in the government. There, the US made a big mistake by appointing so many fascists who hate everything Russian. If they had good intentions, they would have allowed the country to become a federation with great self-determination. This proves that the West and Bildt have evil intentions. Russia accepted the Minsk agreement, which could solve the problem, but the US and the West avoided it. Therefore, the West bears the greatest responsibility for the conflict between NATO and Russia in Ukraine. That so many have to die is deplorable and the vast majority are Ukrainians who should understand better. Ukraine is just a game plan for NATO expansion.
Russia wasn’t accepted for 2 reasons. NATO was created to defend the world against Russia. And they did not want to follow the outlines of what it took to become a member. They wanted special exceptions to be made so they could continue their corrupt government and unjust court system to start.
Why would anyone want Russia in NATO when its run by a criminals that support and fund terror?
In order to become a member of NATO, you must have at least some standards of budget transparency that will not allow the Russian elite to build their tasteless palaces. Guess what they'll choose.
There was no coup in 2014. The Ukrainian parliament, in which Yanukovych had a majority, removed him from power by 328 votes out of 450 AFTER he fled. Yanukovych and the opposition had an agreement that he would remain president until the re-election, potentially for another year. The collapse of the coalition is not a coup.
Russia did not "accept the Minsk agreements"; it imposed them on Ukraine. The Minsk agreements are a continuation of aggression by diplomatic means, the purpose of which is to limit the sovereignty of Ukraine. During the signing of both agreements, the Russian army invaded Ukraine in order to pressure Poroshenko to make concessions. Literally at the time of the signing of the second agreements, the Russian army was trying to encircle the Ukrainian forces around Debaltseve.
And there is no discussion that the US is separately trying to maintain the Petro
Dollar- its EDGE over the entire world. I do not trust US to do the right thing for the World. This should be the primary concern, at this point in time.
right....latest statement from the WH is : "The United States believes that Zelensky is not ready now to negotiate with Russia about the situation around Ukraine"-The White House ----- the US has ofc the final say in all of this...ukraine is 100% a puppet of the US.
if u like to believe this is all about the defense of the "sovereignty" of ukraine then idk what to say sry...neither ukraine nore any european state has any say in this sry
Sandwiched between a mediator who won’t shut her mouth and a political stooge who rudely runs his mouth , John shines like a diamond who’s brilliance is matched only by his patience. One in a billion as a human being
Totally true! I agree 100%. John shines, and Carl Bildt is just unbearable to listen to. He makes me furious with his rudeness and ignorance.
Jesus Christ you people are like a cult lmao
@@MelGibsonFan If acknowledging a persons excellence makes me a cult member then yes I am and proudly so . I would also give you a nod for anything you’ve done that is noteworthy.
Thanks though I’m trying to now to follow The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth, again Thanks!
@@lidstrom3565 Bildt is right, though.
Thank you for this excellent event. And thank you to professor John Mearsheimer, very educating.
I think the latter part of this conversation highlights a problem with geopolitics generally. It's true, we in the West automatically think of ourselves as the good guys. Whilst Russia's assault on Ukraine indeed is morally and ethically to be condemned the fact is, if China or some other such superpower were to join in an equivalent Nato alliance with Mexico along the U.S border, the U.S and the rest of Europe would have a major issue with it... I think the panel members are a little to dismissive of this.
Correction... this exact scenario is discussed at the end of the debate.
Professor John is precise in his statement. Always pleasing to listen to him.
He is an old fool who does not perceive counterarguments and facts that contradict his narrative.
We call him Prof. Marshmellow
@@thomaslee3 I think he would prefer John humbly. I think your suggestion would be more respectful 🙏
What I find amazing, is that in these kind of debates is what everyone is ignoring, is the breakup of Yugoslavia and the 10 years of civil war that followed. And, Carl Bildt was playing a major part in it.
Like, it never happened.
And all the precedents started there.
absolutely agree.
nobody wants to rising up this questions.
coz many criminals against humanity (politicians), who participated in destroying of Yugoslavia are still alive.
Russia will make a precedent. The Tribunal will be really INTERNATIONAL.
Not the US pocket tribunal.
If you accept Putin's aggressive and paranoid worldview as legitimate, it all follows. But, predictably that is the road to hell.
@@user-hy1wv4so9w
Yugoslavia was no more sustainable than the pre-1918 Austrian Empire. Get real. Serbs committed genocide.
@@TedATL1
sure.
and for sure it's russians started to kill people of Donbass.
and for sure the NATO and the US were saving "democracy and freedom" and bring peace and stability in Belgrad in 1999.
congratulations.
you won.
Thanks, though I’m trying to now to follow The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth, again Thanks!
I’m sure the guy with a Ukraine flag tie and Ukraine flag pin will give us an objective view on Ukraine
John , you're a real temptation. You'll swallow your words in the near future.
Nice, a teacher in the middle, and the pupils around him (learning I hope).
hahaha this made my day! I cried laughing :)
empty hopes.
these kind of people are too selfish and arrogant.
Thanks
I love the moderator's response to a possible nuclear war: it will be disastrous for the struggle against climate change. She and Bildt really do inspire moral revulsion.
100%
Climate change would be irrelevant, wouldn't it?🤔
@@user-np7st5mi1t .. This is about MONEY! Do you live in LA - LA Land?
@@oddvardmyrnes9040 Maybe I'm missing something, but your point and question seem to me to be entirely unrelated to what I said 😕
@@user-np7st5mi1t .. Yes, intentionally so. My point is that economic issues will always trumps environmental issues. Why do I say that? Let me explain.
Politics is about money. Who controls them, & what they are used for. You see it very clearly when you understand the structure of things. And now, today as we speak, the world you know is about to change. As we face a gun pointed to our heads, we have to confront these forces. Stop them dead in their tracks. Please follow me a little longer, I ask you to consider what I write;
The world is crashing, but it is not random. It is controlled. At the base of our society lies energy (oil & gas). It affects everything you surround yourself with. Clothes, food, transport etc. When the crash comes (it is starting in earnest now), oil prizes will normally drop due to decrease in demand. History tells us that. Make sense. Less activity, less need for oil. What will happen to oil companies when this happens? They will have to compete. The one that has the best & cheapest product will win. This is what the free market teaches us.
Well, the US oil production is NOT the cheapest. The extraction method, fracking, is expensive and have a much higher COP than other methods. It is only oil-sand production & synthetic oil extraction from coal that are more expensive. The Russian & Saudi oil is far less expensive than the American oil. U.S. production need 60+ USD a barrel to be profitable. Below that, they lose money. Russia & SA are at the 10 - 20 USD a barrel range. This has been why the FEDS propped up the financial market to keep demand high. Now the market is crashing & BOOM, we crash.
The massive American investment in the fossil fuel industry, must be protected. Europe has agreed to shut Russia off/or reduce volume, from the European oil & gas market, and as you can hear Senator Cruz say, Texas are ready to start producing for export. He yells 'kill the Nordstream pipeline and send weapons to the heroic Ukrainians.' Yeah....
But the Europeans will not pay top dollar for a product they can get reliably next door, to a much cheaper prize, one can argue.
That is where the Ukrainian war comes in. Get everybody fired up, make binding rash decisions that shut Russia out of the world's monetary system (shut them down basically), inhibit & take over their lucrative oil & gas market, Europe, & inhibit their exports. Accomplish that & the American economy is saved. How will that save them?
With one of the biggest oil producers out of the market, the oil supply will be constricted, thus securing a high base prize, whatever happens in the world economy. That saves the American energy sector. Then the crazy war machine will profit immensely off the world's increased tensions, and a prolonged insurrection war in Ukraine. NATO will buy guns like crazy. That saves the weapons industry, and thirdly it will weaken Russia, so Israel will get elbowroom & can finish off Syria & possibly Iran. Follow the Gaza situation right now. This is the grand plan of the crazy people in this administration, and the one before, and before that all the way back to Mr Bush Sr.
In my mind, the U.S. wanted this war. In a crazy high risk geopolitical game, with underlying economic incentives, America has fueled this war.
The reasons for wanting war is rooted in the coming world economic crash, as I described above. The FEDS have kept the market artificially alive with its Quantitative Easing policy and its participation in the Repo market. The war in Ukraine is provoked, and has as its goal, to shut Russia out of the European energy market. Here are the 4 reasons for this crazy scheme;
1. Keep oil supply low in the world, securing a high oil prize during coming crash.
2. Secure a new Cold War in Europe, with massive profits for the weapons industry.
3. Weaken Russia in Syria, creating elbowroom for Israel to finish off Assad & split Syria along ethnic lines.
4. Cease Russia's natural Resources.
Easy to verify. Check the min oil prize U.S. & Russia need to be profitable. Check property market in China & in the U.S. Verify the state those markets are in right now. Check the finance Repo market. Check the U.S. ten year bond yield. Now that the war has happened, and Russia is cut out of the market, FEDS will stop QE & raise the interest rate. The planned gargantuan crash can start.
But there is a problem. USA's energy needs must be met. And how do the US do that when they have stopped Russian imports? How can the refineries along the gulf cost get crude oil cheep enough now that you have kicked out Russian oil? Venezuela, is your answer. Google search for 'U.S. ties easing of Venezuela sanctions to direct oil supply' and you will see for yourself.
But Venezuela wants to sell at market prize. One can argue. No they won't. The trick is that America has enforced sanctions on them, and Venezuela lack infrastructure to get production volume up. You get it? Yes sir. America moves in to modernize the oil production, and Maduro play ball. He has to. If not...you know the history as well as I do.
From the security perspective, the notion of Russia being a 'offensive' nation is wrong. Their posture is defensive. Putin is characterized as unhinged, mad, delusional and so on. He is not. He is human, though, and he does mistakes. Putin did one thing wrong, he invaded Ukraine. He should not have done that at all. He should have waited until the world crashed (as it is doing right now), and then flood the market with cheep oil. That would have built Russia to en economic power, crushed the American oil industry, struck a blow to the U.S. financial system, and blown up the energy independence of the U.S.
Instead, he went straight into the trap that was set for him with both feet. Look up NATO advisor Jaques Baud and read his story on how NATO trained the Ukrainian army. Go to OCE web page & you will find that Ukraine increased artillery fire 10-fold in Donbas, starting the 16th of February. Russia invaded the 24th. Read his story, and you will understand what game NATO played.
Ukraine is important to Russia because Russia has no geographic barrier onto their land. It is impossible for Russia to defend its borders if the opposition is present along all their borders. That is why it is imperative, for their security, that parts of the borderline are free of opposition. Ukraine is therefor vital for them. Just as Caucasus is (Georgia). Even if Putin was president or not. Listen to Mr John Mearsheimers assessment of Russia strategic position in Europe.
Go to 'Caspianreport' TH-cam channel & see the video report 'Will Russia become a superpower?' This is two episodes and is an excellent introduction to the Geopolitics of Russia.
Look up 'Extending Russia: Competing from Advantageous Ground' and read the cynical & Draconian recepy on how to destroy Russia. Not to mention the hypocrisy from the U.S. considering their own history. Cuba is a prime example.
NATO has, in my mind, deliberately campaigned against Russia since the fall of the Soviet Union. The strategy now, during the crazy world economic situation, is to wage economic war on Russia, aimed at acquiring its assets. Some assets have been sold to China. They need the oil, but they pay between 30 - 50% less than the rich Europeans do. Russia will also suffer 'brain drain', so needed expertise to develop & maintain oil fields will suffer. Their output will decrease, and the U.S & China knows that.
Ask yourself these questions:
1. Why did Ukraine NOT implement the Minsk agreement that they signed in 2015?
2. Then this; Why did NATO invite Ukraine & Georgia to seek Membership when there was never a chance for them to join?
3. And this; Why will Europe agree to shutting out Russia from the world's monetary system when it will only result in more chaos?
What mental gymnastics do you need to embark on to remotely think that;
1. Georgia is part of Europe.
2. How can Ukraine, which has parts of their territory in dispute, and a state of war existed within their borders, enhance security in Europe, or in the North Atlantic area?
Europe is directly responsible for the situation that now exist. They could have averted all this by studying history a little. Article 10 gives every country de facto VETO right for enlargement. Now we risk having a new Afghanistan in the middle of Europe. And the people that will die is the Ukrainians & the Russians. Europe will be more dependent on the U.S. than ever, while America is cashing in.
It is all about money!
Carl Bild couldnt have been more wrong. Mearsheimer is today spot on with his analysis and his predictions
I think he could have been more wrong. They agreed on real key points but did not when it came to "Why" the war started in Ukraine
And
"How" it will play out.
One is a liberal optimistic
One is an aggro realist.
With 3 World Powers now, there's no room for a liberal voice, unfortunately.
He never answered 100% if Europe would trade with China in the future with technology. It's scary to think about that
@@Masterfuron There was an element missing regarding China. Yes, it looks like a "great power" with a massive economy. But that fails to take into account at least two facts - not opinions or issues of debate, but objective, verifiable facts: First, China's industrialization was only possible due to taking on massive amounts of debt and spending money they didn't have. It is a major factor in the debasement of their currency and is starting to unravel. Second is the complete demographic collapse of China. The birth rate is currently around 1.2 children per woman, far below the replacement rate of ~2.2 children. This collapse started decades ago, exacerbated by the disastrous 1-child policy. The work force is aging more rapidly than any other industrial economy and by 2030 population growth will be negative. They will not have enough young people to support both the aging population and continued economic growth.
Why did Putin lose the war then?
@CarterM54 If you also look into it, they are starting to sell a lot of their bonds also and keeping the money in their country, which may be a sign of isolation, which they've done before.
As for China's pop, they have like 3-4x the number of people than the U.S. has currently. Population + Wealth. They have cutting-edge technology and the brains.
As for their "debt," so is the U.S.; almost to the point where we might have to start printing money, and let's not talk about the stock of the dollar..
Now, with that debt, you take it and use it wisely. China may trade technology also, I know it sounds like Im contradicting my point of them isolating in the future, but it's all about timing at that point and being prepared. Make a lot of money, then cut completely off from everyone besides their allies.
@@Dcc-yk2lo Shhh, real men are talking.
Man, I'm always sceptical about people who don't find just wearing a yellow-blue pin enough but also have to mark it with their tie or something.
It’s a 2 vs 1 debate. The host joined the debate with Carl against John…😂
And they still lost on merit. John's arguments are more factual and reasonable.
Disappointed that a former premier of sweden resorts to ridiculous Hitler & Poland cliches on Putin. The US has completely broken the European economies and made us fully dependent on the them whilst increasing defence spending by trillions $.
@@tagsoneveryting mearsheimer is putins bitch. Those simple and smart explanations are just propaganda
John Mearsheimer claimed in a past lecture that Russia wouldn't attack Ukraine-that didn't age well. Mearsheimer's claim on some history is also wrong. 1 of the early enforcers of the Monroe Doctrine was not the USA but the British Navy. And he also may have screwed up the history of the Cuban Missile Crisis again. In the prior lecture he claimed it was over a Soviet base in Cuba. This is wrong. The crisis was over missiles and was resolved with removing them from both Turkey and Cuba.
@@pplr1 your facts are incorrect
Listening to Carl Bildt, you can understand why we are where we are with EU policy. John is doing his best to explain it to him.
Carl has a pation of his Europe n doesn't understand the world like mr. John.
@@sinoafricansinoafrican9821 Agreed.
i think john was very bad. he talked only about principle and some abstract terms, but never really talked about reality except the red line.
@@klauskinski5969I tend to disagree with you. If anything, John, as he described himself, is a realist and hence he reflected the reality for which Carl kept ducking the points that John brought up.
Carl proved time and time he is an extreme left neocon.
The world is where it is now because of people like Carl and hold the same “values”.
I would say the height of cluelessness was towards the end when the moderator brought up the UN security council. I doubt that even the UN takes the UN seriously.
it is wild that the speaker used interdependence as an argument against mearshhiemer.
All Russia wanted and still want is a free of military zone between Russia and NATO. The war was avoidable of NATO hasn't arrived at Russian border.
Prof Mearsheimer is very wise guy and all what he said are quite sensible and full of wisdom!
no wisdom here
You must be writing from Ukraine?
@@user-wm5rt9pw5limmense political and historical knowledge and the ability of empathy is wisdom. In John's case you could say it is truthfulness.
No doubts about that.
@@konradschulz820 immense political and historical knowledge for some reason failed to help him to recognise that question of Ukraine joining NATO is closed since 2008. Either he don't know basic facts of history of Ukrainian NATO relationship or he dishonest because it contradict his stupid narrative.
Yes, let the bully in the east with nuclear weapons set the rules. But please don't surrender in my name.
Mearsheimer's courage in the face of tidal waves of war propaganda is refreshing. Much respect.
I’m trying to now follow The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth, " Thanks!"
@@jaredwoodford8849 is one of them trolling?
Thanks, though I’m trying to now to follow The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth, again Thanks!
Funny how you say propaganda because you dont agree. Instead of pointing some things where the others are wrong and Mearsheimer is right.
@@garad123456 the ones praising mearsheimer are probably not real. It's part of the Russian propaganda model to do this praising because it makes the Russia friendly messege more believable.
Carl Bildt's opinions are at best Juvenal.
I admire Mearsheimer's patience during this "discussion". I've been following him for some years now and he's normally more nuanced in his line of argument, but here he only stuck to his main points and as he realized that his counterparts are just not capable of challenging his thesis, he just tried to stay as polite as humanly possible.
I wouldn't have bilt on my boat...
Thanks though I’m trying to now to follow The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth, again Thanks!
I agree, I appreciate the patience of Mearsheimer’s patience,
Actually, I have been listening to many of Mearsheimer's talks, and they are not always nuanced at all. He has his teeth into his theory and as much as he says he wishes he wasn't right... he will defend this theory forever. He is not very nuanced. At all. And he even admits this. According to Mearsheimer, his theory makes up about 70% of reality.
@@RoadkillxDemon I have yet seen a single argument that has been made that has refuted John Mearshamer arguments. He is on point every single time. The whole narrative of but, but, but Putin bad! But, but, but Russia Imperalism! Is actually intellectual laziness.
The entire conversation lacks one central key component of why people like you will never understand Russia action is because of the United States. They are the world greatest tyrant that the world as ever seen. If it wasn't because of them 90% of ALL global conflict will have never happened. The reason that the entire war in Ukraine is happening is because Russia was becoming a threat to the US and of course the US did not wanted to have another power challenging them. Hence, the 2014 neo-nazi coup in order to create a proxy war.
The whole energy crisis and economic sanctions on Russia etc. That was all planned by the US back in 2019. They wanted this war to happened. They wanted go cut Europe away from Russia. They wanted everything that is currently happening. Yet, European are being played like fools by the US and they are loving it. Of course they are using the same tactic agaisnt China.
John Mearsheimer is the king on these topics; I fully agree with him.
At least someone tried to debate him on this.
I wish there was a debate between Mearsheimer and Timothy Snyder i.e. someone who also has the American perspective but at the same time is really knowledgable about Central-Eastern Europe what cannot be said about Mearsheimer.
Best comment. A lot of silly fan-boying for Mearsheimer by those predisposed to agree with Mearsheimer. There are many highly capable analysts who would disagree with Mearsheimer on many points. Timothy Snyder would be an excellent choice to debate him, but there are others as well. Mearsheimer, as a forecaster of the future, has the problem of being an ideologue committed to offensive realism. Any forecast that deviates from his grand view is a threat to his entire worldview, which reduces his cognitive flexibility and his ability to deal with facts that don't "fit" his ideology. Snyder could be said to suffer the same, but at least he would bring countervailing evidence and inconvenient facts to the table.
I'm not a native Russian speaker, but I've been learning it since I was 10 (soon to be a 20 year period of time). I got to the point where Russians themselves cannot recognize that I am not a native speaker, at least in the first hour of intensive conversation. In addition, I got to know Russian history, art, literature, etc for all thes years. I am European and it is simply unbelievable to me that today we find ourselves in a situation where an American knows the mentality of the Russians better and that only on the basis of logic and common sense, and a Swede does not even know his own history. But even if you didn't know anything, if you listened to what Putin is telling you all the time, you would know what awaits you. Bilt says he doesn't know how it will end. It will end as the Hungarians know and don't want - the Russians in Budapest. Or in Warsaw. Or in your Stockholm. Listen to what Mearsheimer says, do you think that Godzilla who has all eyes on a rising China since Trump will fight and die for you? You think they will fire nukes at Russia if the Russians enter the Baltic countries and also be ready for Russia to nuke them? No, you will die for American interests and do as your boss tells you. Maybe even in Taiwan. And Russia will remain an enigma to you as before, so in the morning you will call Prigozhin's trolling a fight for freedom, and in the afternoon call him the terrorist. Putin should not be compared with Hitler, but this team to which Karl Bilt belongs. But I think that even in that comparison, Hitler would have acted more rationally in relation to them. Although both made the same mistake, attacking Russia. Fu**, some Russian soldiers from Asia die for Shoigu because they consider him the reincarnation of some Mongolian general, Chechens are waging a holy war in Ukraine against Western "values", and Bilt talks about some of his friends, who do not even make up 1% of Russia's population. Medvedev pretended to be a liberal for more than 10 years, and no one knew his true face. You thought you knew the Russian economy, but you won't even be able to recognize yours anymore, when the US bans us from trading with China. Damn you smart.
I just hope that people like Mearsheimer will be in key positions, and not like Karl Bilt, when the Russians come to the border of Romania, Hungary and Poland in 2 years.
excellent overview!
i'm too from Europe and puzzled of the total lack of notion and common sense here
Obsessive
Except that it took the Russians 1,5 year to get control over 18% of Ukrainian territory (a part of which they already had). Don't seems to me they could get to Bucarest, Budapest or Warshau in my lifetime. Neither do they have any reason or appetite to do so.
The Baltic states might be a different thing, the indeed should be worried. Although, being part of NATO should protect them.
@@BIGBEN9999999 Because your way of looking at the situation is completely wrong. Why do you look from the Russian side, when you know as much about Russians as the average European? So, nothing, and what you know is the result of propaganda.
Let's look at it this way. It took Ukraine a year and a half to recapture 1% of its territory, that is, to really conquer it in a real fight, and not for the Russians to just retreat in front of it. The retreat of the army is one of the most complex military operations, because the retreat can easily turn into dispersal and flight. In the First World War, Austro-Hungarian officers highly valued the Russian ability to retreat without a single casualty. Today's Russian army has that quality (unlike Stalin's). They withdrew from the Kharkiv region, they withdrew from the Kherson region. It cost the Ukrainians about 20,000 dead if I remember correctly. Bakhmut cost the Ukrainians 50,000 dead and plus they lost that city. The Russians took up a defensive position in Zaporozhye and Donetsk, and in the last few days Ukrainian losses there amount to 1000 losses (dead+wounded per day). It's an old military calculation, the one who attacks should expect 3 times more losses on his side, and the Ukrainians have 5-7 more. They even lie to their Western allies about how many casualties they have, but that's why they are building a military cemetery next to Kiev that will be the largest in the world (capacity over 400,000 - maybe to 600 000, we will see), and they legally forbid those aged 16-18 to leave the country. Why if they have enough manpower?
Ukraine massacred its army by throwing them at the Russians. 2-3 days of training and to the front, it was often the case. And the Russians gradually introduced and rotated their army, now they are all hardened fighters who have at least 6-8 months of war experience. Intuition and instincts boosted to the maximum. The difference between a rookie and a veteran is huge. The Russian military industry produces 3 times more annually than it did a year ago, and the West cannot supply Ukraine with what it needs. 9 Russian ones go to the caustic fired Ukrainian shell. And why would the Russians lose their infantry, when their artillery is doing the job? For territory? My friend, you have played too many PC games, this is not a war about territory. Territory will certainly come in the end, but this is a war similar to the American Civil War, and the Russians are using the ideas of Abraham Lincoln, and the strategy of General Grant adapted to the 21st century.
Ukraine is already a broken country. Upper estimates of the dead and wounded reach one million. The Russians have ruined the country, more than NATO ruined Serbia/Yugoslavia (They have not yet reached their level of development and economic condition from '89). Now all that remains is to destroy the Ukraine army at the front. After a year and a half, it will not be as difficult as in 2022, when that army was trained and prepared by NATO for 8 years for this. That army is no more. And the entry of F-16 aircraft into the game, which can carry nuclear weapons, can be the reason for escalation and the use of tactical nukes. Putin said this even back in February 2001 in Vienna. So you see what we can expect to see in our lifetime.
Let me also remind you about the fall of the Ukrainian drone on Zagreb or those Ukrainian rockets on Polish territory, when it was claimed that Russians was to blame for both cases. Has Article 5 of the NATO Alliance been activated?
Don't be a fool. Remember how, during the corona, the Czech Republic (or Slovakia?) hijacked the delivery of Russian medical aid to Italy. When it comes to that, let's see if everyone wants to watch their own ass or die for ideals in the post-truth world.
@@BIGBEN9999999 And yes, it's obvious that you either didn't listen to Miarsheimer or you don't understand it. It doesn't matter what you or I think or how it looks to us. What matters is what think those in Moscow.
Well done Dr. Mearsheimer, well done!!
Thanks though I’m trying to now to follow The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth, again Thanks!
👍
Fun observation: NO word of mention of Ukraine’s destiny in Carl’s closing words. Tells you something.
Carl is a deep state puppet..
He told it. He said he does not know, because no one does, how this war will end, but that Ukraine will need Europe's continued commitment toward repairing it and keeping it stable. He said it was the biggest country in Europe next to Russia and of course, that was all the more reason for the first observations.
What I get from this debate is, who is Russia to stop us on our plans and ambition we are the west and will do what we want and don’t worry about Russia or anyone else’s concerns.
I mean Russia is the one literally invading a country because it doesn't like it not being a puppet, so I think you have that backwards
Name one year since 1949 that a NATO member hasn't waged war.
Bilt was the “peace negotiator” in Yugoslavia. It ended with Yugoslavia being dismembered because that was the end game, just as NATO plans for Russia. Madeleine Albright did say that it is so unfair that one country should have so many riches and not share them. Bikt
I was feeling gaslight the whole time he tried to argue nato didn't want to expand to Ukraine...
Thanks for sharing I had no idea who Bilt was.
I could just feel the slippery ness of the guy. He was equivocating, omitting pieces of information and was clearly trying to manipulate the audience. He was also assuming the audience was ill informed about the history and could be easily fooled. The red flags went up for me!
One such example was his comment that Ukraine and other Eastern European nations wanted to be like Poland because they saw success. They were knocking at EU’s doors. On the surface, that’s perfectly reasonable. However, the omitted piece was that when Poland was being set up for success at the time of USSR collapse, Russia was refused help when it had financial troubles. The goal was to bankrupt them in the 1990s, so God forbid they became an example to follow.
People like him are nefarious and liars. They mislead us by giving us half truths. They are on an anti Russia crusade for decades. That’s for reasons of power not for the good of the man on the street or democracy or human rights, like he so sanctimoniously claimed. They have been jeopardizing Russia by design for a long time and then claiming innocence. Who do they think they fooling? There is enough evidence that people like him have been doing that since the 1990s. Gaslighting sociopath.
Unfortunately, most people are busy making a living and don’t have the time to examine and the mass media is just an extension of these power hungry people.
He has been on the bord of directors for a Russian energy company and a few other dodgy oligarch like behaviour
@@rp3875 gaslighting psychopath? Are you Russian?
That saya It all
I love it how everyone forgets the military exercises NATO did in May 2021 alongside Ukraine in the Black Sea. All months before Russia ever brought any troops.
Not so. Russia's massing of troops and equipment near the Ukraine border began in March 2021.
@@dixonpinfold2582 false
Thanks for time stamps with analysis
@@neptunefog6082 It is indeed true. Putin was likely considering back then to invade Ukraine.
He published his essay that Ukraine wasn't a real country in July that year and made it mandatory for military personal to read it.
@@dixonpinfold2582 they can mass troops inside their border whenever they want. Why dont we talkn about 57779245 US military bases arround the world?
Thanks John M.
I was waiting for one of them to get up and play the piano.
The Swedish politician is stuck in the NATO propaganda bubble (which might just split up the EU in their blindness).
It won't. Outside of Hungary, EU is completely united in opposing Russian aggression.
He is very aware and of course understands everything that happens. But it is his deliberate intention to shape a reality perception in the viewer that supports his desired outcome.
@@farzana6676 I'm not so sure! If the EU's success was based on economic well-being, when there bad times come. Many countries within the EU will begin to focus on their own interests. Think about the latest developments between Germany and France. Add to that the dishonest behavior of the United States, which is luring away European resources (Inflation Reduction Act of 2022) and the unity of the EU does not seem so unshakable.
Alsa, what will happen if Russia wins on the battlefield?
This winter will prove disastrous for EU unity. 😂
thank you professor. well done. you ate his lunch.
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:00 🌐 *The 2022 Holberg Debate discusses pressing global security issues, focusing on Ukraine, Russia, China, and the West.*
08:47 🌍 *The world is currently facing a dangerous security crisis, with a significant military conflict in Europe involving Russia's aggression against Ukraine.*
12:49 🇪🇺 *The conflict in Ukraine threatens the stability of Europe and the broader global order, emphasizing the need to address it.*
23:41 🌍 *Principles of non-aggression and respect for borders are crucial for European security, with the international community supporting Ukraine in upholding these principles.*
32:06 🌍 *The security of Ukraine is foundational for the stability of Europe, and addressing the Ukrainian conflict is essential for preventing future global disorder.*
33:31 🌐 *The world has transitioned from bipolarity to unipolarity and now to multi-polarity, increasing the potential for conflict among great powers.*
36:09 🇨🇳 *The U.S.-China competition is a major concern, with China aiming to become a regional hegemon in Asia and the U.S. striving to maintain its dominant position in the world.*
39:49 🌏 *The U.S. does not tolerate the rise of regional hegemons and is concerned about China's growing military power, especially in the context of Asia.*
40:15 🌐 *John Mearsheimer argues that the United States aims to weaken China to prevent it from dominating Asia and that this intense security competition is centered around Taiwan.*
44:15 🌎 *In the context of Ukraine, John Mearsheimer believes that the United States and Ukraine are pursuing a clear-cut victory, while Russia perceives Ukraine as an existential threat and wants to regain control of it.*
53:05 ☢️ *Mearsheimer highlights the risk of nuclear escalation if Russia faces a significant setback in Ukraine, as they may resort to using nuclear weapons to protect their interests.*
56:05 🌍 *Mearsheimer asserts that the world is becoming more dangerous due to the emergence of two potential great power conflicts, making the geopolitical landscape less predictable and more hazardous.*
01:08:03 🇷🇺 *Putin resurrected Russia's military capabilities during his tenure, but they weren't capable of launching military offensives in the 1990s.*
01:10:07 🇺🇦 *NATO's decision at the April 2008 Bucharest Summit to include Georgia and Ukraine in NATO contributed to conflicts in Georgia (August 2008) and Ukraine (starting February 22, 2014).*
01:14:00 🌍 *Putin perceives colored revolutions and democratic movements in former Soviet states as an existential threat to his regime.*
01:16:15 🤝 *NATO expressed its commitment to bringing Ukraine into NATO, trained Ukrainian troops, and considered Ukraine a de facto member.*
01:19:27 🇷🇺 *Russian elites were united in viewing Ukraine's NATO membership as an unacceptable red line.*
01:21:53 🇺🇦 *The Russian invasion of Ukraine fueled Ukrainian nationalism, but Putin may have anticipated this and still felt desperate enough to take action.*
01:25:08 🇺🇦 *Ukraine's neutrality was part of its constitution, and there were no significant NATO forces in the new member states before the 2014 Ukraine crisis.*
01:30:46 🤝 *NATO's commitment to bringing Ukraine into the alliance increased, despite the absence of physical NATO forces in Ukraine.*
01:33:21 🤝 *Negotiations for a peaceful resolution should primarily involve Ukraine and Russia; European nations support Ukraine's determination to protect its territory.*
01:34:14 🇺🇦 *Prospects for peace in the Ukraine-Russia conflict are currently bleak, and it may ultimately be decided on the battlefield.*
01:35:11 🇷🇺 *Countries closer to the Russian border have a different perspective on the threat posed by Russia compared to those further away. Historical animosities also play a role in these differences.*
01:36:31 🌍 *Putin's actions in Ukraine in 2022 challenged the post-World War II European institutions that aimed to prevent war in Europe and foster economic cooperation. These institutions failed to deter Putin from invading Ukraine.*
01:39:12 🇺🇸 *NATO and EU expansion in Eastern Europe were initially aimed at promoting peace and stability, not containing Russia. The view of Russia as a threat evolved after the crisis in Ukraine in 2014.*
01:44:41 ☢️ *There's a concern about the risk of nuclear war in the Ukraine-Russia conflict. However, some argue that giving in to nuclear blackmail is highly dangerous, and deterrence efforts are being made to prevent such an outcome.*
01:52:00 💥 *In desperate situations, states may pursue risky strategies, such as using nuclear weapons, even when they understand the consequences. The focus should be on preventing escalation to nuclear conflict.*
01:57:04 🇪🇺 *European nations are increasing their defense spending and cooperation in response to the evolving security situation, particularly with concerns about an unstable Russia in the future. The goal is to safeguard against an unpredictable regime with various instruments of power.*
01:59:04 🤔 *Differing viewpoints exist on how to prevent nuclear escalation in a crisis like the one in Ukraine in 2014. One approach is to back off to avoid provoking a conflict, while another perspective emphasizes the need to create deterrence to prevent escalation.*
01:59:46 🌍 *Mearsheimer suggests that if tensions between the West and Russia continue to escalate, it could lead to a nuclear war.*
02:00:13 🇺🇦 *Russia's demand in December 2021 that Ukraine not become a NATO member and military forces be withdrawn to 1997 positions created a critical situation.*
02:00:51 🔒 *Mearsheimer believes that backing off from the Ukraine situation is almost impossible at this point, while Bildt advocates for doubling down and imposing sanctions on Russia.*
02:02:36 🌐 *The participants discuss the challenges posed by the current geopolitical rivalry, particularly the dynamic between the U.S. and China, and the role of Europe in this context.*
02:03:59 🌊 *Climate change is identified as a significant issue, and cooperation among major powers is deemed essential to address it effectively.*
02:07:46 💼 *Tensions may arise between the U.S. and Europe regarding trade with China due to Europe's interest in trading extensively with China for economic growth.*
02:16:10 🌍 *The panel discusses the challenges of achieving international cooperation on issues like climate change and arms control, given the increasing intensity of security competition among great powers.*
02:24:25 🌍 *Global South countries, including Indonesia, Brazil, and Thailand, voted with the West on resolutions related to the war, but the effectiveness of their mediation efforts with Russia remains uncertain.*
02:25:17 🌎 *Western countries often view themselves as the "good guys" in the international system, but many countries outside the West don't share this perspective and see the U.S. as a ruthless great power.*
02:26:41 🌐 *The number of armed conflicts in the world has increased since 2018, posing challenges for international institutions, including the UN Security Council.*
02:27:48 🌟 *The effectiveness of the UN Security Council depends on the actions of its great power members, and coordination among these powers is becoming increasingly challenging.*
02:29:23 🇺🇦 *Securing Ukraine is crucial for European stability, and the conflict in Ukraine will have long-term consequences for the region.*
02:32:04 🌍 *Global institutions are ill-equipped to address growing global rivalries, and the world is facing significant challenges, including the pandemic, climate change, and migration pressures.*
Made with HARPA AI
Just one question. What would America do if Mexico or Cuba or Venezuela agrees to station Chinese or Russian military in their territory? If USA does not allow that Russia has every right to do that. Ukraine is sadly irrelevant here.
What should America do to make Canada or Mexico want to have Russian or Chinese bases?
@@user-wm5rt9pw5l No, you got my question wrong. imagine Cuba or Venezuela makes an agreement with China or Russia to station their army in the territory of Cuba or Venezuela. Then what would be USA's reaction to that scenario. We all know what happened in Cuba during Cuban Missile crisis.
Bildt is so evidently disrespectful, arrogant and dishonest under this debate. Mearsheimer is balanced and present his arguments with clear logic and facts without any bias. Kudos to Mearsheimer who kept his demeanour well againt this war mongering provocative propagandist.
he makes unnecessary sarcastic remarks like "they waved the EU and not USA flag", "unlike your geography that moves...".... he uses these since I think he has no other sound evidence to say the least.
Well...just look at them. One has the Ukrainian flag on his suit the other doesn't.
Bildt is clearly honest and it's really doubtful Mearsheimer is honest. Some of his ways to align with the Russian perspective is too naive to be plausible. Also, the supporter of war is clearly Mearsheimer. He wants to reward Putin's illegal war and thus complete his effort to shatter the post-WW2 rules-based world order that has prevented new world wars and kept the world relatively peaceful.
@@oldi184 very true, that's a big plus for Bildt.
@@jesan733
But this discredits him as a neutral speaker.
He is biased.
The most amazing debate. I am happy to hear that Mearshmeier voice is becoming louder and more people are awakening!
Are you for real? Mearsheimer is a well-known trojan horse, who pushes dictator totalitarian narrative. Don't be delusional. High class paid actor.
YES! AMEN SIR 🙏
But propaganda is always louder than people talking about facts, or there would be no war. Sad that most people follow the propagandist rather than wise man. America are great propagandists.
нет, Ксения.
вопрос в том, что договариваться не с кем.
это не пустые слова. оглянитесь и подумайте над этим.
нам не оставляют выбора.
только победить.
или умереть. но победить.
я уверен: большая война впереди.
Yeah, right. Ukrainians bend your backs, reject freedom and accept Putin dictatorship for Mearshmeier to look brilliant! PLEASE!
There were many sincere people in the 1930s who were apologists for Mussolini and Hitler, including the American hero Lindbergh. All of these people, even Lindbergh, ruined their reputation when these dictators showed their true colors later in that decade. The same will be true of Putin apologists. I just hope we don't appease him too, and cause the same horrific result.
As a general statement, when one argues position instead of facts, they will contradict themselves because the latter must bend to the former.
Carl says Russia had no reason to feel threatened because nothing had happened - Nato had not put weapons there, "stored them to the west of the country... didn't give them to the soldiers" etc - but also says on Feb 24, Finland was worried about Russia. "They said we can no longer be safe without going into Nato". "They believed they are next, rightly or wrongly." IOW, Finland and everybody as long as they are not Russia are justified to fear future actions but Russia isn't allowed to be afraid of the future actions of Nato. Why is that?
He also says its up to Ukraine to negotiate with Russia without including that it had and was negotiating until London stopped everything.
He blamed Putin for his hawkish stance during his third term without saying what had happened that could have caused that. How many nations joined Nato since Putin's sec term? Clearly Putin realised Nato persisted on its strategy.
He says Putin has no support for the war in Russia without also saying more than 200,000 men have volunteered to go fight, volunteered. Almost all Russians polled have consistently blamed Putin for not going nuclear on Ukraine. They want him to declare war, and finish Ukraine off. How is that not supporting the war?
Carl is not arguing facts but against the facts in support of his own bias.
"Russia isn't allowed to be afraid" - Finland began to fear Russia after observing its invasion of Ukraine, what did Russia fear...? For the last 30 years, the only force that carried out aggression against other countries in the region in which Russia is located was Russia itself.
"How many nations joined Nato since Putin's sec term?" - Not a single one near Russia.
"until London stopped everything" - a conspiracy theory. From the first days of negotiations, Russia demanded capitulation, Ukraine offered a compromise but demanded the removal of troops from the occupied territory. There is no evidence that Russia agreed to this.
Zelensky was elected with the promise to promote peace in Donbas. Ukranian people wanted to get along well, in peace, with their Russian brothers. Talking about Ukrania as a sovereign country today is at least academic desonesty, once Ukrania has been ruled by NATO since 2014. Mr Mearsheimer is brilliant.
Since when Ukrainians and Russians are "brothers". In Ukraine Russians have bad reputation because of their xenophobia and negative attitudes towards ethnic Ukrainians and Ukrainian state
@@xxvxxv5588, read USA reports on human rights about Ukraine.
Mearsheimer is truly the one that understands the complexity of this crisis. It seems the others are too close to get a distant perspective. Frankly, I only see a broade
However he cannot effect the “conventional wisdom” let alone change it. Narrative of the West piles up to form a belief.
@@MarioSaldanhaLobo Fake news
John is always pleasure to hear. Good arguments presented with passion and sense. Bildt with his vague opening speech is typical (this is how things should be, instead of this is how things are) euro-bureaucrat living in lalaland. Switch him with any top EU representative/politician and you get the same delusional result.
Except you realize that the European leaders, the EU members, the NATO leaders, and a lot of Biden's office is all like this. In Washington, both parties form a uniparty called the blob that also is part of the politician, university professor, think tank member and defense contractor who thinks the same thing. Did you see the John Stewart interview with Hillary Clinton and Condy Rice who were both still saying that the Iraq invasion and the Libyan invasion was a good thing?
Given that people like Mearsheimer once upon a time were the hawkish end of the spectrum, it’s just nuts that we have become so warlike that these people appear as the reasonable ones.
Can you please refute what Bildt is saying? Seriously every comments here are coziing up to Mearschimer but doesnt bring any actual substance to crtiticism of Bildt other than simpleminded insults
I am very impressed by Bildt. He seems willing to accept the risk of nuclear war to stand up against the bully in the east. I am not a strong person but that is my humble opinion too.
@@andrewareva4605 I agree with you with the Washington blob. Still, I would like to see rep. US president today, rather than quite literally demented Biden and his administration. In institution like NATO, USA is a hegemon. So even if there's resentment, EU counties will comply, get in the line or turn the blind eye towards US war politics. In the Ukraine situation, elites are on the same page, although here in central Europe disgust among common people with EU and it's self-inflicted harm from sanctions and anti-NATO sentiment is strong. I didn't see that inteview, Jon Stewart is woke idiot. But I'll look it up.
0:11: ⚖ The Holberg Debate of 2022 focuses on the current global security crisis and the power of deterrence.
38:05: 🌍 The US and China are engaged in an intense security competition in East Asia, with Taiwan as a major point of tension. In Europe, the US and Russia are the key players in the conflict in Ukraine.
48:59: 🌍 The geopolitical crisis in Ukraine and Russia poses a significant threat to global security.
1:01:15: 🌍 The West pushed for NATO expansion and EU membership, while Ukraine wanted closer ties with the West for security and prosperity.
1:12:30: 📰 The Russian invasion of Ukraine has fueled Ukrainian nationalism and brought the Ukrainian people together, but Putin's attack on Ukraine was an act of desperation due to a perceived security threat.
1:24:54: 🌍 The escalation of means and goals in historical wars is compared to the current situation in Ukraine, where there has been significant escalation in terms of means and Russian goals.
1:35:45: 💣 The speaker believes that Putin's actions in Ukraine have caused immense damage to Russia and that he may resort to using nuclear weapons in a desperate situation.
1:46:04: 🔒 The discussion revolves around the risks and consequences of nuclear war in relation to the conflict in Ukraine and the actions of Russia.
1:57:11: 🌍 The discussion focuses on the potential outcomes and implications of the ongoing war in Ukraine, including the role of Russia, the US, and Europe in the geopolitical landscape.
2:08:20: 🌍 Europe is more ready than the US to deal with integrated deterrence and hybrid threats, but tensions in trade relations with China and Russia pose challenges.
2:19:31: 😕 The structure of the international system is changing to multi-polarity, making cooperation on climate, arms control, and copyright issues challenging.
2:32:27: 😔 The world is heading for troublesome waters with growing global rivalry and inadequate global institutions to address major challenges.
2:40:14: 🌍 The speakers suggest backing off with the Russians and working out a deal with China to benefit all parties.
Recap by Tammy AI
Tammy AI did a top job. The speaker understands shit. Its all or nothing as far as the USA is concerned.
@ 1:22:23 John says that Putin was aware that invading Ukraine would draw in the U.S. as a response.
John simply prefers to not believe that peoples in former Soviet Republics, based on their own volition, be allowed any Western accommodations or shelter that Putin would reject.
Russia is the local hegemon; its neighbors are under its thumb.
Talk about it with Cuba, Panama, Venezuela
I am so glad that I made it through the first half hour of this.
Yes, Carl was a pain to listen to...
Mr Sweden loves his master
Carl Bilt is destroyed Yugoslavia, he help Albanian to take Kosovo, now SUPPORT Ukraine's behaves in Dombad and not suport Russia to protect Russia population.
@@annab8766 Russia runs a brutal and illegal war, and it forcibly conscripts the poor males in the occupied territories and feed them as cannon fodder against prepared ukrainian positions. There is zero ambition from Russia to protect anyone.
Good for you. I managed about 30 seconds of Bildt before hitting that fast forward. I just can't bear the predictable hypocrisy and selective memory.
Seems like John M is debating both Carl B and the "moderator" in this debate. Clearly the moderator is not neutral in this debate. It seems like a fight in which the "referee" is hitting one of the 2 fighters. I can only assume that the outcome of this debate was predetermined.
I like Scandanavian people, they are strong and kind of relaxed, a bit like their cars. Someone once said a Volvo is the only car in the world that you can crash into a brick wall without spilling your glass of champagne, but what if it crashed into a Lada?
Thank you John for spelling it out in plain English to Carl, but I somehow don't think he got the message. The lift didn't go all the way to the top! What dream world is he living in??!
He is a Scandinavian politician, serving US military interests.They all do, every single one. Our former prime minister Stoltenberg. He got the NATO job because he agreed to involve Norway the Libya war. We sure did a lot of carpet-bombing of civilians, so he got his promotion. NATO's Secretary General back then the war-criminal Dane; Anders Fogh Rasmussen. And don't forget the warmongering former prime minister of Finland; Sanna Marin. She quit her job and two days later she had a new job as "Advisor for the Tony Blair Institute for Global Change", and she refused to answer any questions from the Finnish press.. It's a shitshow. Globalist who chose money over Humanity
I like the argument of it ithe east goes west not the west goes to east .Caving for bullies like Russia might bring temporary solution.But bullies have insatiable appetite and they want more.
The 40 year effort by western powers to "spread liberal democracy" to the east is an example of western expansion eastward, and is largely analogous to the Crusades.
Correct. And it is very revealing that those trying to make excuses for Putin refer to Ukrainians being able to make their own decisions as supposed US interference.
Excellent prof Mearsheimer!
As a swede i feel ashamed. Bildt is a politician, and lacks all sense of realism. Having been around i surely recognize his love of being seen as a "top international" diplomat. Embarrassing, arrogant and truly dangerous, while Mearsheimer i believe has great clarity.
As an American, I have to say Carl bildt carried himself very well. Very articulate and cogent arguments made by Bildt.
I know how you feel, here in Finland its the exact same thing, our politicians are childish and completely out of touch aswel, sometimes I feel as though I live in a completely parallel reality from them
Attaboy. As a russian I can say you that we Successfully sh*t in your head
Had he been the PM now and talked like that we would find good motive to hide in bomb shelters already. Or rather emigrate to New Zealand.
Even more concerning is to know that all European and US leaders are the same minded. This arrogance will bring lots of trubbel for poor people :(
Why Carl Bildt's principles were never considered for Serbia, Libya, Syria Iraq and number other locations?
Watching this I'm stunned that Carl Bilt isn't pulled up about his obvious USA support beyond reason. They must be looking after him in other ways
Everyone seems to forget Yugoslavia and kosovo, a war and border change by u.s. force, not to mention the Soviet unions borders were changed of course.
before US it was cool and dandy there right?
You forget the Serbian genoside on its neighboor
@@nkosipwl He hasn't "forgotten" anything.
Jessie's observation is the supposed principle of no border changes by force is bogus.
You and HaTrick are providing justifications for ignoring the supposed principle.
So thanks for proving his point.
@@gandydancer9710 you mean genoside is ok. Mr Mersheimer just like Putin get is wrong, they think russia is a great power. In realism ruSSia is not a power in degrad.
@@nkosipwl "In realism ruSSia is not a power in degrad.
What's "a power in degrad"?
And... "ruSSia"? Gee, I think I see what you did there, but dumb as it is I think its cleverer than you are.
No, I didn't say "genoside"(sic) "is ok". I said what I said. Ask someone smarter than you (i.e. anyone other than the brain-damaged likes of John Fetterman or Joe Biden) to explain it to you.
John Mearsheimer is a good speaker!
Which country/organisation are trying hard to push for wars? The answer is very obvious!
I guess Mr Bildt has forgotten about the 90s Yugoslavia war on European ground were NATO "intervened"
Nato didn't just "intervene."
They initiated an unprovoked illegal war of aggression against sovereign FR Yugoslavia in March, 1999.
Ofcourse, when nato violates all laws of war, it is always done with "the best of intentions", never out of selfish and malignant geostrategic (economic) interests. 😂
Ahh, western mainstream politicians and "intellectuals" such as Bildt suffer from unrivalled hypocrisy.
John is telling the truth and Cart keep lying and lying...
Je does not even know what he himself he saying. They don't even listen or even understand what John is saying.
Prof. Mearsheimer is just a brilliant mind, his every single word resonates with my perception of the situation, yet I just hope the world could by some miracle evade the nuclear war
Yeah !! the very head of the nazi party would have been very proud of him
It won't. Russia will win. And the humiliated Americans will provoke a nuclear war.
You must think Putin is a monster if he's going to start nuking people. Right? However, he won't do that for the same Reason hasn't nuked anyone since it got the bomb seventy years ago. There's no future in it. That said, if you think that is the kind of criminal Putin is, you must not want to feed innocent countries to him just to appease his hunger for empire.
Humanity is afflicted by grave ignorance and stupidity! What Quantum thinking?
I have never seen as much racism, paternalistic politics as now.
This is best debate on this issue
how is a decaying empire from inside able to contour sustain ifs hegemony ?
Carl Bilt monologue : "Our task after the fall of the Soviet Union was to build peace and security and prosperity for every part of our continent." - When he came to power Putin asked to join NATO so to form a wide security structure encompassing all of Europe but was rebuffed.
Bilt compares Putin to Hitler making an all out attack on Poland. - Putin made a very limited Special Military Operation with I30K troops for three objectives. These were to stop the 8 year western Ukrainian military agression on the Russian-speaking Donbass region, Purge Ukraine of organized Nazi elements that have played a crucial role in Ukraine's turn from Russia to the west as well as the martyrdom of the Russian-speaking regions. Guarantee Ukrainian neutrality so as to remove the NATO threat to Russia. This is in no way similar to Hitler's conquest of Poland.
Bilt : The first similarity between the two dictators is their actions were taken with "no constraints". Putin limited the SPO for threes specific purposes as mentioned previously. Originally it was even designed to secure autonomy within the Ukraine state for the persecuted regions. Because of NATO intervention the SMO was unable to succeed as planned and in order to increase the size of the Russian force a mobilisation was needed. In order to mobilise within Russia, the Russian-speaking regions of Ukraine had to become part of Russia itself which they readily did through referendums. These referendums were actually real and uncoerced and available documentation contradicts the West's accusation that they were a "sham".
Bilt : Just like Hitler and Poland, Putin wanted to "get rid of Ukraine". Putin from the beginning stated that Ukraine should remain intact. NATO massive intervention caused Russia to have to escalate that in turn required the four eastern regions to request integration into Russia.
Bilt predicts that Putin will continue to escalate until Russia collapses. Therefore he intimates that NATO will feed Ukraine money and arms until Russia is exhausted and itself falls apart. He does not mention the possibility that the West exhaust itself and collapse first.
Bilt : "Agression must never be tolerated, borders must be respected." Kosovo was carved out of Serbia by force of NATO bombing of military and civilian infrastructure.
Then Bilt states that both Putin and Hitler claimed numerous intolerable injustices might be right or wrong. But that doesn't give them the right to use military force to right those wrongs. So according to him NATO didn't have the right to use military force to create Kosovo.
Bilt : "True peace in Europe can't be restored until the Russian invasion is rolled back." This is not necessarily true as we will likely see in a few years time.
Bildt doesn't care about facts. He is a propaganda machine for a liberal conservative political right and they find him quite useful.
Carl Bildt has never understood any important international issue correctly. A typical Swedish leader with very high thought on himself and a big dog´s attitude, but much limited knowledge.
No, these are not what Prof Mearsheimer's structural realism international relations theory suggests about this war.
You are simply a Putin apologist, not wiser than Bildt, just stand on the other side.
@@simonyang5191 Anyone that doesn't agree with the West's actions regarding Ukraine and relations with Russia is a "Putin apologist." Default mode.
@@galanis38 Are you serious? Did I say that the West is doing the right thing?
Go read the article that Mearsheimer write about the Ukrainian crisis and see what's the difference between a realist and Putin apologist yourself.
Fantastic debate. Mersheimer is incredibly insightful and wise.
But he is wrong.
@@tomrlvag8234 Well, that settles it: Mearsheimer is wrong. Brilliant analysis and we can all go home now.
@@marclandreville6367 You got it.
@@tomrlvag8234 Not the way you think.
@@marclandreville6367 not quite.
'Perfect love casts out fear'
Carl Bildt's body language matches his verbal performance in the discussion. Superior, entitled, arrogant.
Viva John.
An honest and highly respected debate between a true scholar on the one hand and a remnant of global arrogance on the other. From a very worried South African
Although I agree with Dr. Mearsheimer's perspectives with regard to the US - Russia situation, I disagree with his presentations titled "How China Cannot Rise Peacefully" from 2012 thru 2022. I agree with Dr. David Kang in their debate titled "Debate: Should the U.S. Seek to Contain China?" and was fascinated by Prof. Kang's lecture titled "An Overview of Korea - Full | David Kang" at the University of Southern California 10 years ago.
No surprise here. From South African, your records are terrible, don’t you know?
As American i thank John for his knowledge and his clarity to explain the real essence of the conflict, hope the audience realizes that there's more than one side debate or to the story
This Norwegian fool wants us to believe not seriously take the nuclear threat until we get blown up!
Yes. The real essence of the conflict.
a) Russia wants to secure itself and its borders, wants to keep NATO away from its borders.
b) Russia NEVER wanted to take over all of Ukraine.
How the hell can Russia achieve the goals in point "a" WITHOUT taking over all of Ukraine? How can the capture of Kherson help keep NATO further from the borders? Ask Finland what impression this ingenious step made on them.
You're right about both of them. Especially about Norwegian fool.
He is Swedish, not Norwegian....
@@conorrowlands5093 He is still a "fool" in respect to how he perceives a nuclear threat
Euro trash elitist naive moron
It's quite ironic to observe that despite having the freedom to inquire about a broad spectrum of topics, our reporters often find themselves circling back to the same question concerning freedom. We are the ones don’t understand the true meaning of freedom, or have the true freedom.
What is Bildt saying now?