The Game That Inspired Minecraft, But Never Made a Penny
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.พ. 2020
- Before Minecraft, there was another game: Infiniminer.
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#Minecraft #Infiniminer - เกม
You’re kind of downplaying the fact that Zach went on to create his own *genre* of games. None of the games he’s released under Zachtronics have any precedent; his game mechanics are so novel that each could inspire a new batch of game designers. He is a creative powerhouse!
Yeah, I was coming here to say that. Zachtronics games are legendary. Telling this story without talking about that seems bizarre.
Zachlike is my favourite genre
like that compares to missing the best game of all times
He's incredible. Minecraft is a great game, but it's clear that notch got lucky. Zack is a literal master of his craft, it's really incredible how consistently good his games are.
Came here wondering about this. I don't play much vidya anymore, but if I did it would be almost entirely zachtronics and hacking type games.
"It's not a clone, it's clearly not a clone. The tree punching shit I'd never do in any game." is one hell of a quote.
Oh my, I lost it there!
Calling Minecraft an Infiniminer clone is like calling Geometry Dash an Impossible Game clone, or calling Terraria a Minecraft clone.
@@nqrtzy8765 7:30 Notch even called minecraft an infiniminer clone.
@@nqrtzy8765 i mean they look extremely similar (excluding the terraria one tho)
@@LeoStaley in 2009 that was actually somewhat accurate. Not so much since alphas and betas and such
"You can feel bad and still be productive" is honest to god the motivational poster I never knew I wanted hanging on my wall.
Oh god I need this motivational poster.
Yo I read this when he said that!
Agree, I wrote this down immediately
You mean the wall in room number 427?
I wish that was more applicable for me, but my life is actual hell.
I didn't realise Zachtronics was the Infiniminer person! Opus Magnum is an incredible game! I'm glad the story had its own happy ending of sorts!
MozilloGames I want to claim Eliza and Shenzhen I/O on Humble Choice, which game should I not claim?
I’ve already decided that I’m not getting Cryofall and I’m kinda thinking of leaving warstone TD behind too.
I think I might just not claim warstone TD.
Edit: Also I don’t own any of the games in this months humble choice, and I have to decide soon.
Decatur Ramsey - Same!
@@penwoopydo Both are good, but neither are really a good starting point for Zachtronics games. Eliza is a visual novel, so it doesn't have any of the aspects of the traditional Zachtronics puzzle games, while Shenzhen I/O is probably one of the most intimidating ones on their catalogue. If you ever played any Zachtronics game (or is not afraid of dealing with assembly language and "debugging" solutions in a somewhat raw interface), Shenzhen is a good pick. Otherwise, Eliza is still very good (and it comes with a really fun in-game solitaire).
fracassio I forgot to say I also have SpaceChem I got that a while ago and don’t remember when.
Edit: I’m hoping Opus Magnum comes to humble choice or some bundle or sale.
I found out when I got spacechem, it was at Dec 29, 2015.
I got it and the 63 Corvi Mission for $1.48 USD
So you're telling me this guy indirectly caused:
-Notch get stonks
-A trillion views on youtube
-Many childhoods
-Nostalgic feelings
-Many people's jobs
-A ton of happiness
-A change in the lives of so many people from store managers to a kid back from school
and yet he wasn't paid a single penny.
guy deserves my life
The butterfly effect
I mean, he wasn't paid a penny *from that game.* But he's had a successful, if niche career, as a hugely influential and solvent respected indie dev as (one of) the mind(s) behind Zachtronics, making incredibly innovative games unlike anything else. Opus Magnum is truly an opus magnum, and the things he's done *have* to be way more fulfilling than Minecraft has ever been.
Conversely, imagine being Notch and always having in the back of your mind that all you ever did was make one of many clones of Infiniminer and get lucky and the tiniest bit innovate in just a slightly different way from others. Not to be demeaning. I wouldn't describe what Notch did as that, but i would have that voice in the back of my mind, i'm sure.
Zach should feel such pride, and creative fulfillment. Notch should, too. Game design's iterative. FPS were once called "Doom clones" so Infiniminer stood on the shoulders of giants already. But if i could choose, i'd choose the Path of Zach for sure. Doing fine, no fedora, no magazine covers, getting to do what i want and be creative. Hell yes.
@@origami_dream best comment I read this year
everyone lives
@@origami_dream I remember reading a very long time ago something by notch where he was stating something along the lines of what you said here. That everything kind of feels pointless when no matter what you do you know it'll never reach up to the success of this earlier game you made. I also got the impression that this was a big part of the reason he later ended up selling Mojang, since he had grown to feel so creatively limited by Minecraft that he didn't want to have anything to do with it anymore.
I love this story. Sad but there's so many similar stories out there. Very in depth telling though, respect.
You seem familiar.....
oh well, I agree.
@@itsdanielvibing yeah he seems familiar because he s a youtuber with 1 million subs?
@@p6n7l Not that, didn't he make minecraft animations or something like that?
@@itsdanielvibing idk, never seen him before
Yeah, like that video made by hbomberguy about it.
This man indirectly caused my entire childhood filled with ton of memories. Mad respect to him
If you like redstone, PLEASE check out the rest of modern zach games, they are amazing
I've been streaming Minecraft for 9 and a half hours straight now. Come say hi and I'll subscribe and put a sign with your name on it in my world
In a world where some people try to sue over the mere use of the words 'Banner', 'Edge', and 'Prey' in the title of a videogame, this bloke genuinely surprised me. I'm not sure that I'd have handled 'missing out' on a couple of billion so well...
Great vid as always!
Edit: (I mucked up, I meant Saga instead of Banner!)
I can guess at the last one, but what are ‘Banner’ and ‘Edge’ referring to?
@@TheOverArchiver Tim Langdell (Edge Games) took action against EA for Mirror's Edge, a mobile game just called Edge, and Future Publishing for Edge magazine claiming that he owned the worldwide copyright of use of the word in relation to gaming.
As for Banner... er, hmm, this is embarrassing... I had the time the makers of Candy Crush Saga went after The Banner Saga in my head and wrote the wrong word. Oops.
The thing is, it's almost impossible to claim rights on games concept. I think they tried with Tetris, and even with something as distinct and simple as this, it didn't really worked.
Don't forget "Fallout"
Even Blizzard tried to sue Mojang after something as simple as "craft"
Remember when Apple tried to claim a letter of the english alphabet?
These are desperate times we're living in...
He would have never made much money he would have never had an idea to make Minecraft he was going to make something else he never missed out he couldn’t if he never even had a thought about it even infiniminer was planed to be a first person shooter
so strange that Zach has barely spoken to Notch given he literally cites "Infiniminer Clone" in early development and Notch was an avid /v/ poster who interacted directly with the community for years and is still really easy to get in touch with
I figure it's not that Zach can't get in touch with him, rather the fact that he didn't see any need to. Aside from "Hey, I made the game that inspired yours, ain't that wacky!" there's not much to say unless he wants to be a petty asshole about it and demand compensation or whatever.
@@Spar_kie seems a massively missed opportunity for them not to offer him a job at some point, though.
@@sl3848 why would they? they already got everything they needed out of him
@@MCArt25 People continue to have good ideas and somebody who built something obviously understands it very well. A company with as much money as they have would hardly even notice his salary and he might have lots of valuable input
Zach doesn't strike me as a /v/ poster
I had no idea he was the Zach from Zachtronics. I'm glad he's doing well and is over it.
For real, I played Opus Magnum and it's really great, I like it so much, mad respects for this man
Nah, he still feels like shit. According to the video.
He's currently my comp Sci teacher and his class is rly fun
@@WorriedTheif he's seems to be fine from when I've talked to him abt it
@@klaw6368 Cool, It's still kinda sad though.
Oh man i could not do that, i’d be salty till the day i died... and maybe after
Buried in a grave of literal salt?
I think he's secretly raged as shit
@@content_deleted813 he totally is but it’s okay. I would be too. I’d also downplay it in an interview so I didn’t come off looking like an ass. It sucks.
You'd become a hollow after you died?
[ Content_Deleted ] There’s no secret about it. You could tell he was raging about it but he kept it under wraps. If I was in his shoes I absolutely would have some shit to say. Notch didn’t necessarily steal the game or anything, Minecraft is different enough. That being said, the fundamental concept was taken from Infiniminer.
I'm so glad this turned into an inspirational story and wasn't just an upsetting story.
It's still pretty upsetting, lol.
It's still upsetting because it's clear that meritocracy is a myth.
How is it not upsetting when Zach emphasizes the fact that he felt like shit ever since the clone skyrocketed!?
It's that, massive litigation, or suicide...
@@WorriedTheif im pretty sure he said it himself though minecraft's not a clone
"That could have been me" is a very powerful feeling, especially when you were so close, but just barely missed.
I would TOTALLY play a reimagined updating of INFINIMINER. I think it is TIME.
Yeah, I finished with Minecraft a long time ago. I'd give Infiniminer 2.0 a shot.
Is that not just Fortnite?
@Hassan DuRant Fortnut would be a million times worse. Plus infiniminer wouldn’t be a battle royal (nothing against BRs, I’m actually a really big fan of Apex Legends)/probably wouldn’t have very similar audiences.
Play Deep Rock Galactic. It's the simmilar idea of team based violent mining game, but also drawing ideas from Left for dead.
Ace of spade?
wait no, ace of spade turned into sh*t after it got sold to an other studio.
Play for free at "Build and shot" wich is simply ace of spade before it got destroyed...but with lot of hacker :/
I love that quote "you can feel bad and still be productive" thanks for this video and thanks to zach for being so honest but also optimistic his game really did start something that will live forever @mojang easter egg the man already
I hope they add that quote as a splash in the title screen
This changed my whole way of thinking. When Zack said that creativity and felling bad are no mutrialy this changed and how I though about being creative. Thank you Zack.
"Creativity and felling bad are no mutrialy" --Zach
Inspiring
Well, aside from the lack of monetary gain, I have to say that it must feel pretty good being able to say "I made the game that inspired Minecraft". Basically Zach is the godfather of that genre - if you can call it that. That's one helluwa conversation starter.
Doesn’t do any good for bills
Snoop Beerus - He went on to make his own genre of games. He’s probably doing okay as far as bills go at this point.
@@Tustin2121 not 2.5 billion's okay, but as okay as he can be, i guess.
Richter WLK neither notch him or that did 2.5 billion worth TH-cam and creators created that money notch just got lucky with hard work
Yes 'hard' work
I think the most painful part of all this is Notch not acknowledging him once, other than the initial blog post about cave game.
A bunch of colleagues from work played the lottery last Christmas and despite asking me in several instances to participate, I didn't.
They ended up winning.
Of course, it is in a whole different scale than what this man has experienced but the feeling is quite similar.
Still, as some of them are even friends you have to find it in yourself to be happy for them and don't let the negative feelings reach you :)
How much did they win?
not really similar imo, he made something and someone copied it, you just didn't want to waste a few bucks.
well, that would be like saying you got robbed out of millions because you chose to work at a bank instead of making games, and that wouldnt even be the same.
His idea/prototype/game has become the most successful game ever, that's a life achievement if I ever seen one
@North American TH-camr how do you know what notch does with his money?
@@wheezeau i didn't see the guy in the video say "oh, yeah, Notch gave me some of his money", so i'm pretty sure he did not get anything.
Richter WLK notch doesn’t owe him money or is selfish because he doesn’t share it with him. He got inspired everyone who crests is inspired by something.
North American TH-camr no he’s not he give to charity and doesn’t owe this guy any money. Don’t be daft
@@murdergangxx9416 i don't need to be a good person, yet i can choose to be. Point is, he basically got fame and fortune over someone else's idea. It would show genuine consideration if part of the credit or the money got to the infiniminer guy. Having a good idea is much harder than making that work.
One thing I don't see ever mentioned is how minecraft clearly took a few ideas from ultima (underworld), ie art style and atmosphere. So while it was not too mechanically original, i remember that it got a lot of attention when it adopted underused mechanics from the ultima games. What made it a megahit was the license server crashing, making it free for a few weeks, and basically you had a case of a million addicts
you can't steal an atmosphere.
IMO Tibia and Illarion Online are more similar to Ultima in terms of art style and atmosphere. Just look at them.
Illarion is an obscure MMORPG that someone told me to play back in 2007, whilst Tibia was extremely popular in my country around the same time.
I am glad that we got the Zachtronic games like space chem and Opus Magnum. So it worked out fine for me. And let's be honest, that is what counts.
Yes Opus Magnum is great. Didn't get a chance to play it yet, but I have seen the gameplay on youtube.
mfw my first Zachtronics game was TIS-100
gosh i am proud to be working with you two now
5 years before Infiniminer there was an even earlier game, Blockland though it ended up resembling Roblox more in the end. I remember there being somewhat of a rivalry between Infiniminer but an even bigger one with MInecraft.
ViviSectia WOW! BLOCKLAND!! haven’t heard that name in years
Damn I remember that, bearly, I cant remember what it is exactly nor what the characters look like, but I do remember liking it a bit but struggling to do anything as I probably was so young I didn't know you needed java for minecraft.
I bought that game and hated it. I still hate it
@@inidjilin Most of my memories are from the free version with a popular mod that everyone used before there ever was a paid version available. Sounds like not buying the game was the right decision for me. What was wrong with it?
@@ViviSectia I had no absolute idea of how to play it lol. It's my fault
This reminds me a little of when I came across a 3D middleware company that had built their entire product around multiple papers I'd published a few years before. I even found interviews and articles in various websites where they extolled the virtues of _their_ ground breaking new engine design.
In my case I only learned about it years after the fact and their venture doesn't seem to have gone anywhere. I think I'd have a much harder time dealing with it had they made a great success of it, particularly on the scale of Minecraft. Props to Zach for not letting it crush him.
Good on you Zach, you're a better person than most of the rest of us. Also I really enjoyed Exapunks
Exapunks is a mindbender. So unique, even within his own suite of games. 7 billion humans takes that idea and then does so much less with it, heh. Being able to create new robots with code that can create new robots is so trippy. It is one of his least restrictive games most of them have pretty severe code length limits.
I don't understand how he got over it to be honest... If this happened to me I'd seriously just give up on life.
It's undoubtedly frustrating. But at the same time you can be proud that you contributed in a crucial way to something so hugely popular.
For one, you know that you were doing something right, and have the skills to make something worthwhile.
On top of that, due to the big success of the franchise that spawned from it, you can still benefit from it as well. Even if you aren't part of it, you at least get exposure and attention to you and your work.
Even if infiniminer didn't take off, and got ripped off by notch, some of his other games have been very successful. check out pacechem, infinifactory, opus magnum, exapunks
life goes on
@smelly paws lmao
I guess it just stopped being real. It became so absurd that he was able to disconnect from it and act like it wasn't real
Just like Alone in the Dark inspiring aspects of Resident Evil which became popular. It's not who does it first, its who does it better.
Darth Fader you calling me a boomer or a zoomer? What generation am I?
@@KingCrimson82 a rip off is something that directly copies. These are inspired creations, taking the best aspects and building on them. Just like how doom wasn't the first FPS, it was the one that was most polished at the time.
@@KingCrimson82 you're the kind of person who would consider comic book reference photos plagiarizing. You don't understand what these terms mean.
As someone who's got 4 of Zach's games and likes them, it's important to point out that Infiniminer looks really boring. It's like his worst game. Meanwhile Notch really made it fun.
Though it's still _his_ game. He made it and has strong attachment to it ya know.
Minecraft looked really ugly at that stage of development as well. It really wasn't until minecraft got grass and water that it started to look pretty.
Yeah and with his attitude of "I didn't want players to have fun in ways I didn't expect" Zach clearly wouldn't make Minecraft. It's not like Notch beat him to it
It looked fun to me
@@oddity6248 same
great to hear zach's voice on this, it even gives me closure :)
Yeah but now he's got a whole genre named after him, Zachlike games are hands down the best problem games on the market.
I can imagine zach as a type of guy who smiles through the pain just by hearing how he talks
It's interesting thinking about what might have been, and ouch, I feel for Zach! It's great he didn't let that stop him - that shows resilience. Good for him!
What a fantastic story & video. The bar of quality for this channel is immense, love what you all do.
Of course, among those who have heard of Zach Barth, he's known as a creative genius and is universally respected. And Notch is, well. Yeah.
Bingo! Zach is a genuinely talented individual, and his self-identity is strong. Notch is bloated by comparison.
Hey at the end of the day, one of these people is still a good person, success or not he's still improving and challenging himself.. and the other died in his m&m dispensing room
Notch had to get rid of his candy room because it rotted since he had no friends to share it with
i shit you not
this is like some sort of greek karma story lol
UncleMoeLester how? You guys are acting like he’s some evil person.
@@nullnull9478
Nah... he's just a rich asshole who got jaded and salty...
Also just fyi i used to be a big fan of his until i found out about the shit he's said.. he needs to be accountable for his actions
@@No1WillMakeItOutAlive Cuz people have opinions? Is hating on opinions really that valid?
@@No1WillMakeItOutAlive Yes, I have seen his twitter, and I have seen his supposed "toxicity" and "conspiracy", but that didn't really make me disgust him. Well, maybe I didn't like the "conspiracy" bit.
“When Microsoft bought Minecraft for 2 Billion Dollars everything got better”
Everyone: :-|
Ah yes it has gotten better
Remember the introduction of *_Minecoins?_*
I think the feeling comes from the fact that Minecraft is no longer a work of art anymore and there's now room for another game to takes its place. I think lots of game developers felt relieved when Minecraft finally sold out.
He didn't feel bad, because it was then that he decided nobody could have predicted this. He felt bad before because he felt like he made a bad decision/missed out on an opportunity. Feeling bad in order to learn from it. But... at a certain point you can't expect yourself to predict everything. He realized the futility of it.
That’s just Bedrock Edition. Java will always be superior.
@DEVlIIL I know. It's unfortunate.
omg when you mention Zachtronics - It's that Zach? Oh hell yeah
I should've known since y'know, infinifactory
Wait, Zach from Zachtronics? That same Zach who makes incredible engineering games that blows minds and brings freshest puzzles and systems to the table?
Thank God he didn't made Minecraft, seriously. I can't say how it might influence his personal life, but it'd probably ruin the whole impact on gamedev and puzzle games he has now. Man is the legend, and his/their games are a masterpiece. Exapunks is like my religion now, I can't even how much I'm in love with the game, it's aesthetics and content. And those magazines are will be forever on my shelf, even when some real ones are being removed. Such a legacy.
First, it's finally nice to remember the name of Infiniminer, that's been bugging me for years.
Beacuse two, Infiniminer is a great example of why I'm against killing games and why I don't like it when people over look a game's ideas because it's not popular.
Zach essentially made a concept, then Notch inspired by it made a game that would be later sold for 2.5 Million.
If Zach never made or published Infiniminer out to the world, what if lack of success he just deleted it from the internet, what if just because it was rough every possible idea from it is forgotten or worse were considered bad game design no developer should do, tell me how many people's childhoods would be gone.
You never know what's going to inspire people and what it could become.
I'd probably be mad too if I made a game, someone made a clone of it with a few other inspirations tweaked in, then made more money than me. But put it in this perspective and well, I don't think you'd be mad anymore.
Instead of being mad like someone did better than you in a competition; Be like a proud parent and be amazed you did well enough to watch someone else succeed know you alone are the reason they did. That's the lesson I'm being reminded of in this game's story.
Kinda funny that I've learnt from Zach's story to be proud if someone inspired by my work did better than me (Unless I guess it was copy paste), and Notch's story is to not give your work up to someone else (Unless I guess it a choice of that or food). Yet both is about your own work's success and how it can make you miserable depending on what you do with it. One saw the missed opportunity, the other had it and then willing gave it up.
Though at least thus far Zach has a recovery story, Notch... uh... I don't think so yet. I haven't checked up on him in a awhile, but I've heard nothing. Let's hope there'll be one. I hope for the best in all people.
5:30 to 6:06 = about the segment where I’m like “oh that’s what it feels like to not have copyright protection laws”.
I mean I’m sure it wasn’t exactly applicable here, but just imagine, you know? A lot of people are excited about this kind of open-source sharing but not if you aren’t expecting it.
you forgot to mention that when he later released infinifactory years later, people told him it was 'too similar to minecraft' and a clone
It's usually never the pioneers that are successful. It's who dresses it up and sells it the best.
It might be a blessing that he didn't get a huge hit like Minecraft. Notch is miserable now after selling his studio for billions, with no project to work on and isolated from his friends
@@jeffrey44 Buying friends means they aren't your friends though... and based on his Twitter posts that's part of Notch's problem I think. But yeah, overall I agree - rich person problems are most likely a lot better than poor person problems. Never tried the former, but I know how badly it blows to have the latter.
@@jeffrey44 If you read some Notch's twitter and don't arrive at the conclusion he's a miserable and bitter bigot, then maybe you have a shot at being his friend! I sure wouldn't, though.
That's all personality and decisions that he made. 1000 people can make the same action and they'll all show you 1000 different reactions.
Imagine choosing to spend your life sitting on a vast pile of money and shitposting on Twitter instead of using your time and wealth for something worthwhile.
tbh he sell minecraft to stop getting alot of attention and problem blame on him tbh
since Notch may be the person help making alot of stuff in game and it creator
everytime there is any problem in the game it is always blame on him, we know that by just seeing his Twitter acc it have more follower than Minecraft itself and every other big staff of minecraft
and after he left is also when Minecraft kind of fall, it is still great but it is not as good as when Notch was in it
dang, i feel so bad for the bloke now. hella rough. it's like being one number off a billion dollar lottery ticket
Yup :(
Doesn't everybody feel bad for him? like bro his game caused so much good shit to happen and change lifes and what did he get paid? exactly nothing.
Oh wow how 2 guy is here.
More like winning the lottery and losing your ticket to find out someone else found it.
My favourite video so far. Keep up the great work Chris!
What a fantastically put together mini documentary. Keep this up!
Honestly, Infiniminer looks more like a 3D version of MotherLoad, which makes sense as he took inspiration from it.
And again, Notch refuses to join another party invitation
He's suffering from his success, not in a good way
I thought this would be about Dwarf Fortress
The video would have to be about more than just Minecraft to fully cover what games have been inspired by DF and gone on to be more successful. Even then, I think the creator of DF is too busy making DF to care.
I THOUGHT I WAS THE ONLY ONE THINLING THIS
@@connordarvall8482 df is pretty much the final boss of video games
Same, that is what I kept hearing in the past.
It has way more similarities with "Clonk", which is even older.
He's probably not that sad about it because he made lots of cool stuff that did get notoriety on itself. Someone like him doesn't sulk over the past forever.
I feel sad for the developer I wish mojang hired him as a head developer since he is the inspiration.
It's funny, that you didn't put name of predecessor game: "Infiniminer" - in title of the video.
Yeah this
epic clickbait style
Because that way you have to click the video to learn the name. AKA clickbait.
yes, this is clearly clickbait. we were all fooled into coming here. the video itself? disappointing, uninteresting, and devoid of meaningful content. who do these people think they are? having an alluring video title only to then thoroughly discuss the topic in question? personally, i'm going to go back to watching those "Funny News Bloopers *NEW*" videos i keep seeing with the cleavage in the thumbnail. at least THOSE videos never show what i clicked on the video for!
@@Tisulan you deserve a like
The absolute Chad took Mine-fucking-craft's gut punch head on, got up back and said: Fuck it, I'm still making games.
This was extremely interesting and informative, and the cherry on top was tying into your own channel. Bravo.
Zach was overwhelmed and didn’t realise how good his idea could be. Notch saw the spark and put time into it to refine it. I think Zach could/ should be able to get some royalties if he took this to court but yeah notch made minecraft minecraft
I was one of the first people to decompile Infiniminer (no proof on this account but that's because it was all done anonymously) and forked it off to a creative style game. I was a teen and had the help of a couple guys off 4chan since my C# was limited to basic console-based applications, I still feel shitty knowing that it really upset Zach and have bought everything he's done since both as a weird apology and because his games are just amazing logic puzzles. The whole thing was a jumping point to go from wanting to be a sysadmin to being a programmer and I ended up a lot more successful as a result so, thanks/sorry Zach.
Man your guys' videos are great. So many great stories to be told in the world of games and you guys continue to do a fantastic job of telling them!
Opus Magnum is by far my favorite puzzle game ever. Partly because of the complexity of the puzzles themselves, but also because there's no limit to the size of the building area. The problem that I have with a lot of games in the genre come from the idea that you need to the puzzle a particular way, occasionally with a subtle margin of difference in solution. I'm not saying that it's a one size fits all case, because it isn't. There are plenty of puzzle games that just wouldn't work the way Opus Magnum does (having a large build area), and so I wouldn't want those games to change nor am I saying that Opus Magnum is the only game to do what it did or to it's degree. Though the reason why I live Opus Magnum so is because of the limitless number of combinations. It's possibly one of the best introductions into puzzle games for that. You don't need to follow a formula exactly or find that one single solution, but rather, no matter how bad you are at it, you can keep increasing your build area until you make it. It might be inefficient, but you can do it.
This is a really long way of saying that I really appreciate the games that Zachtronics made. Not just Opus Magnum, but Spacechem, Exapunks, even the Codex of Alchemical Engineering. Love those games, love the music, love the studio. I still remember being surprised, though, when I heard that Minecraft was based on one of his older games. It was kinda cool lore I think.
I mean he wasn't interested in taking this game in the direction of Minecraft you know, so he was just an inspiration for someone to do something he wouldn't have done otherwise, I don't think it makes sense for him to think that that could have been him
I think Infi take the direction of MC because players act like MC players,because prefer build Building instead play the real game.
@@generalmark7630 the same as a mtg product that gets me in the morning to get the triggers the release of the day to day measurements of the day to day measurements of the day to day measurements of
@@generalmark7630 He was bitter about through, he threw a hissy fit and abandoned the project due to players having fun in the wrong way.
@@zarrg5611 yes because they "crack" the code
@@generalmark7630 Minecraft has always been modded by people to fit to their image and not that of Notch or Mojang, think of how Zach would have reacted to the Aether.
I own spacechem but I never gave it a shot, I might now after hearing about its creator
Definitely give it a try. It set the template for Zachtronics games from then on, so if you enjoy it try some later ones where they've/he's refined the formula a bit. Opus Magnum is pretty great, and a delight to watch.
"Who would want to pay for a game about mining, which is mostly being made by a single person".
Survivalcraft 2: *laughter*
Great video! Can't wait to see this with a few million views in the next few weeks. ( Idk how long it usually takes to reach a million. I'm just guessing but I see it happening. You're going to be another TH-camr everyone is just used to seeing in quality videos. That's already the case for myself )
Seems like a lot of this guy's problem was that he didn't follow through on stuff. I'm glad he eventually managed to get his shit together and start putting out his own successful games.
Hindsight is 20/20 rarely do people know which idea or project will be successful and how much.
Saying he didn't follow through on things isn't fair.
@@jmbarbarossa7920 according to the video he knew people liked his game for other reasons than FPS, but his reaction was "this is wrong"
@@lerquian1970 saw that. Doesn't change my opinion. You can make things you think people want and it won't turn out as you or they hoped. It is Zach as he was at that time with his mindset and considerations that made that game which is why things went down as they did.
A story of lack of confidence, and unfinished work.
I feel some ideas only come out great because of other peoples mistakes or weaknesses. I dont mean that to sound pessimistic, but I mean that more as just correcting on others mistakes, and making something better as a result.
I do find it a little insulting that Notch straight up called his game a clone of infiniminer. At least he gave some credit, but idk if I had as much success as Notch I would at least want to give back to this guy. Thats a lot of shit to have to endure, and its a nice way of showing thanks for at least coming up with the idea.
@@seb1520 nail on the head my dude.
Effort was inspired by Zach’s effort that ended up making something that Zach could never have done
@@seb1520 imagine if he immediately hire Zach onboard. Redstone probably won't hold a candle to whatever innovation they would make
@@goatpepperherbaltea7895 If Zach had continued it would have become something completely different. Probably not as popular (minecraft really was lightning in a bottle) but probably with tighter design. Likely more of a focus on construction and less on survival and exploration. Like a 3D factorio maybe
Infiniminer(and Brominer) was really fun in its heyday. It was different and fast paced.
"You can feel bad and still be productive, like the two aren't mutually exclusive. I feel bad all the time about stuff, right, I still manage to get stuff done." Inspirational words from the man who got minecraft on track.
This was just straight-up disheartening to hear. And what else is sad is that this isn't the first time this has ever happened. Thousands of super popular games are often clones of previously made games. Angry Birds is a clone of Crush the Castle, Candy Crush is a clone of Bejeweled, Guitar Hero was even based on Guitar Freaks, and Puzzle Bobble inspired shit loads of clones, yet few people even recall the original game. It just sucks sometimes, like honestly. As a person who wants to be a game developer, this really hits the heart.
game of thrones and star wars were inspired by a book called dune
@@googuyniceforeveryone8824 Yeah, my brother told me about Dune.
The comparison between Infiniminer and Minecraft is often overstated. The reality is much closer to Zach creating a basic prototype game with pixel art and a character that walks through a sidescrolling world, and Notch creating Super Mario Bros.
Infiniminer was rough- really rough. The controls were really chunky, the world was tiny, the block types were super-limited, the rendering really basic, and the mechanics super-limited. And it wasn't the first time a gamedev experimented with a voxel world (I was working on voxel 3D graphics in college in 2006, as were many others).
I think the key thing to understand, and Zach clearly does, is that Minecraft was never going to be a game he made because Minecraft was not the game he wanted to make. Like it's easy in retrospect for people to say "why didn't you do this or this, it seems so obvious", when the answer is simply that he didn't do those things because those things weren't part of his idea.
Alexander McClelland - The contrary to Zach's apparent clear understanding is my own inside story. I met Zach at a house party in the summer of 2009, and he was excited about this new Minecraft game which used a voxel-based rendering system like what he had written for Infiniminer. When a few drinks in, he also shared his personal conspiracy theory that the timing of the first public build of Minecraft was suspiciously just a couple of weeks after he had open-sourced Infiniminer, but a few months after the “leak” of Infiniminer's source code _(not actually a leak; rather the community had decompiled Infiniminer back to crude machine-generated C# from its binary; a “leak” implies someone took the source code Zach wrote and made it public, rather than just using Microsoft-supplied compiler tools to convert a binary compiled from C# source back into a rough C# representation of the functionality)._
So Zach was convinced that Notch had taken his decompiled Infniminer C# source, rewrote it into Java, converted all the C# Direct3D/XNA rendering code to use Java's LWJGL instead, and then released it. His viewpoint was bounded on his idea that Notch was just some beginner programmer who had only worked on mobile games for King up to this point. Apparently, that conspiracy theory stayed with Zach for the next few years because Zach fell into a period of depression and lament as Minecraft grew in popularity.
The realty is that the two pieces of Minecraft that share similarity to Infiniminer - 1. voxel rendering, and 2. FPS-style controls - were not unique inventions by Zach, nor code Notch was incapable of writing from scratch. We know now that Notch had already been working on his own 3D renderer for an unreleased game called RubyDung, inspired by the mechanics of Dwarf Fortress and the graphics of Roller Coaster Tycoon, Grand Theft Auto: Chinatown Wars, and Dungeon Keeper. We also know that voxel-rendering tech wasn't new - I had seen others doing stuff with voxels in 2006 and took my own stab in college using 3D textures (much less efficient than polygon meshes, but capable of displaying volumetric smoke, fire, etc.) - so a few years later in 2009 was just when desktop computers we getting powerful enough to display a full 3D world made of voxels. Zach happened upon taking that somewhat old rendering idea and realizing that GPUs had now gotten fast enough to make a voxel-world game; Notch saw that Zach had accomplished that and likewise wrote his own voxel renderer. Oh, and FPS controls… those had been around for much longer, and were generally sample code with nearly every 3D game library.
Zach has taken a much more reasonable stance on the issue recently, but it still sounds like he's giving himself more credit than he deserves, and then pretending to be the nice guy by passing it as something he's mature enough to get over. The reality is the only thing he invented and should deserve any credit for (in reference to Minecraft) is *developing a pixelated voxel visual style,* which has become oft-imitated and improved upon by many games, including Minecraft. Zach is a brilliant puzzle designer and a one-time grounding breaking digital artist, not the innovative computer scientist he believes himself to be.
@@slippydouglas Not to mention back in 2003 Notch had begun work on Wurm which would see all the mechanics of minecraft but in even more detail. He already had the groundwork laid out, he just needed a way to make it into blocks.
@@slippydouglas thanks for sharing the slip of word. Well it was clearing my mind after reading many comment to see what Zach role is. Creating a game that become a proof of concept and inspired other to do the same.
Zach created the genre, Notch the best game of the genre.
Ever heard of "CLONK"?
Its one of my favorite games of all time that i played as a kid and i still play it today...
When i played minecraft for the first time i was suprised just how many sounds were almost the same or ...man just search for it...
When i played minecraft for the first time it was minecraft pocket and it had just came out...
Btw CLONK is a game from the 90s...
Minecraft uses a lot of CC0 public domain sounds, I believe a lot of the CLONK sounds were made free. There's been a lot of sound replacing, too as not all the sounds were properly licensed.
Soo terraria is inspired clonk
Oh thats the name!!! I miss that game so much
Burning Alcohol you can still download it on the original website for free...clonk i mean
@@cmbaz1140 i wish it was on android
I heard of this series called Here’s A Thing that was about the story behind video games. It used to be hosted on Eurogamer by some dude. I can’t really remember his name. But he eventually left Eurogamer, and now here you are, People Make Games - the Minecraft to Here’s A Thing’s Infiniminer.
last time i played infiniminer i remember the game being so loud i think my ears bursted.
For what it's worth I love the zachtronics games and they probably wouldn't have been made if he were an alternate universe notch
Infinicraft? You thought that was yourcraft? Now it's minecraft.
Alright I'm sorry for the horrendously bad joke.
haha
Lmaoo
Zovo that was a joke?
Lody Inmy yes, yes it was
NO OURCRAFT
This proves to me that in life, sometimes hard work is not enough. You really need to have the luck too
You are forgetting Wurm Online, a title started by Notch and his friend Rolf Jansson way back in 2003 which already features the building, mining, crafting and terraforming mechanics that exist in Minecraft. These were not adopted from Infiniminer.
Wait, Notch started Wurm?!?
Niles Black yes
Except Notch himself called Minecraft an Infiniminer clone.
If you asked me if I could switch places with Markus Persson, and be the billionaire creator of Minecraft, or Zach Barth, and get to be proud of the wonderful games that Zachtronics has put out, and have, presumably, a healthy career in game development, running my own studio with the freedom to make niche interesting games, I wouldn't hesitate for a second to pick Zach. I hope Zach feels the same way.
@Abacus Notch has turned into a sad little man whos only entertainment is twitter. Nobody wants that.
Let us never forget the game that inspired this all: Dwarf Fortress
People Make Games please make a video on Dwarf Fortress!!!
It has way more similarities with "Clonk", which is even older.
I remember this game, my friend used to run an Infiniminer server. I even made a custom Minecraft map that simulated infiniminer when MC was new
Great video! crazy to me that you guys dont have like 10x the subs you do now
Honestly the silver lining is that regardless of where the fame and wealth went, the idea and theme was still his doing, and he played a major part in indirectly making this billion+ worth game idea that's all over the place now.
what does he get though?
@@sayyiddaffam6822 I specifically said "silver lining" for a reason.
Should have called the infinifranchise the infinity saga
Goes to show that the underlying concept is only one thing making it fun playable interesting and atmospheric is often more important. Just judging on the screenshots and videos I'm seeing it's really obvious why Minecraft took off and this game did not. Minecraft had a very special feeling to it and that was what made it so interesting not just the block mining and the building
This guy took the whole thing so well, I would have set fire to those minecraft shirts at target XD
Zachtronics is one of the best indie game studios to ever exist.
This was very interesting! Never knew the whole story.
Impressive rallying from orange dot there at 3:00 Real MVP.
Minecraft: "Now there's a simple explanation for that."
Also Minecraft: *Gets in car and drives away*
I feel like Ace of Spades deserves a good mention in the comments.
The original for sure yes! That weird new version that got released on Steam wasnt so good unfortunately
I remember downloading this because of some threads on 4chans vidya board /v/ before minecraft hit
”You can feel bad and still be productive.”
I love it
That's the level of huge heart I would never get to achieve.
Building and shooting? Also kinda before Fortnite too
my god, so true
he was/is a visionary
I mean Hunger games mods had been popular in Minecraft long before Fortnite came along
No
Building with shooting games existed faaaaaaaaar before fortnite.
@@voidofspaceandtime4684 that's the joke
Notch should give out a shout out for the inspiration to Zach, a small 1 million dollar donation should be a nice little prize as he was technically part of the minecraft design team even thou he didn't know it at the time.
Eh a shout out yes a donation no, Zach created a block game that was it, he would have never developed it into what Minecraft was, notch found it got an idea and it became its own thing on its own.
@@eeveegaming4798 totally agree with this. Design inspiration is never original, it will always be some kind of copy of something. And if that's the case, then paying money for inspiration sounds really absurd.
Even if zach continued the development of infiniminer, it probably won't be as popular as minecraft.
@@dionricky you don't even have to say probably, cause it CERTAINLY wouldn't be as popular cause there is absolutely nothing in Zach's game that made minecraft popular, like survival and making pickaxes/tools and much much more. But I do know a game that was almost the same thing as Zach's game and that game NEVER became big. Look up the original Ace of spades. That's game was popular enough to be bought by Jagex which tried to make a good sequel but the game overall died off and they never managed to make zach's formula a success even after they made another sequel under a different name called Block n Load.
No donation.
This kind of thing where 2 people have the same idea, has happen several times in history.
this dude basically made the game that inspired the game that made my entire childhood, mad respect!
Can we really say that Infinimer invented its genre?
The first game with similar gameplay that comes to mind is Cortex Command.
Sure it was in 2D, but it had the exact gameplay loop: Dig, mine ore, build/buy, kill all the enemies.
It even had a diverse modding community, not unlike infiniminer.
My issue with Zach's story comes from the fact that at the time he didn't understand why people would focus on the build part more than anything else. There were no "life-sim" elements to Infinimer, no emphasis on exploration and discovery.
Of course, alpha builds of Minecraft were a lot simpler than that, but If Zach got onboard with this concept of a game, built with the same block mechanics, but with an entirely different focus he would have struck the same success as the "mod".
Simply put, Minecraft is not Zach's game. And no one is denying that.
No is saying that either
No one is saying that... other than Notch in the description of his video on the Beta stages of Minecraft where he literally calls it an 'Infiniminer Clone'?
Minecraft on its alpha version also doesn't have that much emphasis on exploration. yet, it seems a lot of people are talking about it.
so, what i think it's just pretty simple, maybe the name "Infiniminer" aren't as catchy as "Minecraft" does.
Names are the first thing people tell when sharing about something, so maybe Notch using a simple sounding, but unique name is the reason Minecraft got successful.
@@adrianputra2629 yeah truthfully a lot of it is timing/luck/being at the right time in the right place;
Working in a creative field nowadays means you kinda have to just take a backseat to people appropriating your ideas, at least the Infiniminer developer has still went on to be a pretty prolific puzzle game designer (I Think), but as a fellow 'Creative', stuff like this winds me up
@@darowchdawg there are a lot of clones of, that doesn't mean they're copies
The guy who inspired Minecraft is also *the* Zach of Zachtronicks??! WHAT?
Zach is an industry creative powerhouse. Great guy.
This video legitimately made me feel sad. I've had people steal or take the credit for my work, but usually its just some school (engineering college) project that's not going to make a difference in the long run, but if I made a simple game, had allot of ambition behind it, and hoped to make it into something bigger some day, but then someone just swoops in and does it before I do and it blows up into its own entire industry, then I probably wouldn't stop skulking until I at least got to see my name in the credits.....
Of course he's creatively stifled. Office doesn't innovate, it minimizes more and more with each iteration.